WEBVTT - #80 - Steve Murphy and Javier Pena (Netflix "Narcos" Real DEA Agents) 0:00:01.080 --> 0:00:05.400 All right, welcome to episode eighty thanks to Express Pros 0:00:05.440 --> 0:00:08.920 and Blue Apron our sponsors our guests. It's kind of 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:12.960 weird because I watched Narcos like most of America, and 0:00:12.960 --> 0:00:15.159 you're like the real versions of the people, So that's 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:17.760 kind of weird. So Steve Murphy and how your pain. 0:00:17.800 --> 0:00:20.360 You're here now, but you're the real ones, which is 0:00:20.400 --> 0:00:23.159 crazy because that's that's the guys on TV. And you 0:00:23.239 --> 0:00:25.840 kind of both look like the people too, which is weird. 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:27.680 So have so many questions. By the way, gentlemen, thank 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:29.600 you for being here. Well in the heck, we're here 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:36.880 with the real Bobby Bones for us about So let's 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:40.200 just start from the beginning, because I would assume that 0:00:40.960 --> 0:00:43.400 at some point people had to come to an offer 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:47.040 you deals for your story earlier than this Netflix show, 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:50.279 right they did. Um and and just to be real 0:00:50.360 --> 0:00:52.839 truthful about this whole thing, we didn't think anybody ever 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:55.560 want to hear the story. So through the years, you know, 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:57.320 when you're when you're working for the government, you can't 0:00:57.320 --> 0:00:59.920 make money on the side, so you have to wait. 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:02.480 You retire. People kept saying, you guys may make a movie, 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:04.520 you need to write a book and we thought nobody 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:07.240 wants to hear this story. So you're both retired now 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:10.280 and that's why the story it can be out now 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:15.399 from you guys. Yeah, basically, yes, after we retired, we 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:19.480 uh work, they came to us, you know, uh Netflix, 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:24.039 and uh basically they hired us as consultants, and we 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:28.720 told them the real true story. And uh, of course 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:33.240 there's artistic licenses that happened, but we we we told 0:01:33.280 --> 0:01:35.320 him from the from the beginning to the end, how 0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:38.480 we all work the basically the right should follow up 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:42.360 Pablo Escobar and everything in in between. When you talk 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:45.760 about artistic differences, Steve like, what are we looking at? 0:01:45.760 --> 0:01:47.640 Hear percentage watching list, Like, how much of this show 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:50.840 that I'm watching is real? Well, if you come and 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:53.240 see our show, we'll tell you exactly. And by the 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:55.320 way you're doing it, you're doing a show. It's so 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:58.000 the show is chasing Pablo the world tour and it's 0:01:58.000 --> 0:02:00.160 all over. You can get a d a Narcos dot 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:03.960 com to actually watch the show and and and meet 0:02:04.000 --> 0:02:06.520 you guys and see you guys. And so we were 0:02:06.560 --> 0:02:08.040 like in a half of its real cause, but we 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:10.239 have no idea what those conversations in the back room. Right, 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:13.360 there's a lot of there's a lot of things that 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:15.800 actually happened, and they're depicted correctly. There's a lot of 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:19.200 things that happened, but they're not depicted quite correctly. And 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:21.480 then there's a lot of Hollywood built into it. But 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:24.400 you know what, it made a great exciting action series. 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:26.880 In our opinion, we're real happy with the show. And 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:32.279 the chronology is you know, the the events, the timeline, 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:36.120 so that that's pretty accurate, uh of what happened, what 0:02:36.240 --> 0:02:39.280 actually happened. So Netflix, someone comes to you and to 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:44.400 have this idea for a show, and like where does 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:47.640 it start? Like what how did that start? We had 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:50.000 I've got a friend in Washington, d c. That has 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:52.840 his own production company, small company, and he introduced us 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:55.519 to a couple of Hollywood producers. But they had personal 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:57.920 agendas and that's not what we're about. You know, they 0:02:57.919 --> 0:03:00.320 wanted one guy really wanted to go right wing political 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:04.000 with it, and we're not about that. So we just 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:06.200 gave up on the idea. We just figured, you know, 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:08.320 nobody really wants to hear the story. It's all a myth, 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:10.040 you know, it's just you know, dream in the back 0:03:10.080 --> 0:03:12.720 of your mind. And we got a call one day 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:14.800 from a retired U. S Marine that we'd worked with 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:16.200 in Colombia and had talked to him and over in 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:18.680 twenty years, and he said, Hey, there's a producer in 0:03:18.680 --> 0:03:20.760 Hollywood wants to talk to you. And so I tried 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:22.480 to blow off the marine. Well, if if you know 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:25.040 any retire marines, they can be very colorful and forceful 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:26.840 in their language. So after I got my butt cheered, 0:03:27.200 --> 0:03:29.240 I told him, Okay, okay, I'll call the guy. And 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:31.720 the guy's name was Eric Newman. He's the creator and 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:34.160 there the original executive producer of Narco is. He's still 0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:37.280 in charge of everything. Um talk to him. He flew 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:38.920 to Washington. I had dinner with him, and a couple 0:03:38.960 --> 0:03:42.280 of the writers or personalities clicked. Very well educated, very 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:45.520 successful in the in the industry. Called however and I said, man, 0:03:45.520 --> 0:03:48.600 I think we might have something. And this was at 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:51.800 that time we signed contracts with Gaumant International Television. We 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:54.760 didn't know Netflix was involved. After we were on board, 0:03:54.760 --> 0:03:57.040 that's when they revealed that Okay, Netflix is funding this 0:03:57.160 --> 0:03:59.160 and they're they're running the show and they've been great 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:01.680 to us. We're howvire did you actually watch any of 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:03.960 the filming, like did you go and see this happening 0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:05.360 or did you kind of see it after it was done? 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:08.640 We Uh, actually I went to Columbia for about a 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:10.880 week and saw a little bit of the filming. But 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:14.600 our our main job was to tell them the story, 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:20.119 the history, the events that took play. So we were 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:23.640 just living and we would get the scripts, uh, and 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:27.120 we reviewed them and uh, you know, if something was 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:29.880 really really wrong, we would let them know. But uh, 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:34.120 but it was basically we told him the stories. That's 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:36.200 what they You know, how did you feel when they 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:39.240 cast of the people to look like you? But when 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:42.119 you saw the actors for the first like a great question. 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:44.520 I get the call, let's say have here. It's the 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:47.640 guy the name of Pedro Pascal that's gonna be playing you. 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:52.120 And uh I had seen him on Game of Thrones. 0:04:52.360 --> 0:04:55.400 I said, what you know, I said, Pedro Pascal. So 0:04:55.480 --> 0:04:57.440 I looked them up, you know Game of Thrones, and 0:04:57.480 --> 0:05:03.440 I'm like, wow, great looking guys, So of course I'll 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:07.240 signed off on. But uh, they chose him, and you 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:10.159 know what when we when I actually met him, super 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:13.919 nice guy, just uh, just a real great guy. He 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:16.800 you know, we talked and uh, we spent some time 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:20.960 together and but just it was amazing, you know. So 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:23.960 I was very happy that they cast him. It was 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:25.560 wild because at the end of like season one or 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:27.039 two and Steve, when they show the picture of you know, 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:29.880 the actor that plays you and I mean that one is, 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:32.039 do you feel like it's a dead ringer for you? 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:35.560 I do. It's Uh, it's amazing, and Boyd Holbrook is 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:38.640 um just a super guy. It's it's kind of funny 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:41.960 and just a very quick story my family. If you 0:05:42.000 --> 0:05:44.159 read on the media shows that I came from West Virginia. 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:46.440 I grew up in Murphy's Burg, Tennessee, and then when 0:05:46.480 --> 0:05:48.200 I went into high school, we moved to West Virginia. 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:49.920 So I'm I'm kind of like a crossover between the 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:53.400 redneck and a hillbilly. But if on my father's side, 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:56.440 we're related to the Hatfield and McCoy's from the famous feud. 0:05:56.520 --> 0:05:59.039 So my great grandfather is John Cy Hatfield, my great 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:01.839 grandmother Sarah McCoy weight. If you go back and watch 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:05.160 the trilogy with Kevin Costner about the Hatfield and McCoy's, 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:08.160 Boyd plays my great uncle Cap Hatfield and then a 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:11.160 Narcos he plays me, So it's like this incestuous relationship. 0:06:12.640 --> 0:06:15.000 Did you talk like that? You know, you know, because 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:18.280 he has this whole, he has this whole. His speech 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:22.000 is like I'll tell you, I mean, that's just their 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:24.920 own creative liberty. There, it is. It is. But you know, 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:27.680 I'm not disappointed at all. And if if you look 0:06:27.720 --> 0:06:29.480 at the girl that plays my wife on there, and 0:06:29.520 --> 0:06:31.320 you know, they picked my wife in the show, Connie 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:36.279 Joanna Christie cute as a button, but she's British and 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:38.159 she was able to hide her British accent the whole 0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:41.760 show and come out like a country girl. Whenever you 0:06:41.800 --> 0:06:45.080 guys think back about Pablo at this at this point, 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:47.560 I mean, it's been so long. Like I saw that 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:48.800 I was talking on the other this morning, I saw 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:50.960 someone painting a picture of him, you know, up and 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:53.000 it was just a picture and I was like, man, 0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:55.039 what a bad Like I felt like, what a bad dude? 0:06:56.200 --> 0:06:59.040 You is that? How did you guys feel torn at all? 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:00.400 Do you feel like he was a bad because he's 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:02.640 also giving it this like what was your feeling then 0:07:02.680 --> 0:07:05.520 about it? And let me also mentioned when we signed 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:08.920 off with the Netflix on this, we had a caveat. 0:07:09.360 --> 0:07:12.880 The caveat was that we will do it, but do 0:07:13.080 --> 0:07:17.520 not glamorize publisk Bar because that Publisic Bars should not 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:21.760 be glamorized. And they agreed, and I think they did 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:26.720 a great job not glamorizing him. Uh. The actor that 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:31.960 placed Publish, war Wagner Mora, did an incredible job depicting 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:36.640 publisk bars moves, the way he talked, the way he thinks. 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:41.120 I mean, the actor brought him to life in the 0:07:41.360 --> 0:07:45.280 Whack Mora and that's where we think, I mean, you 0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:48.920 would you did see some sympathy towards on the second season. 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:51.480 Towards Publish. I felt like they made him a little 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:53.440 more human than I was comfortable then because I just 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:55.800 felt like what I had read it was such a 0:07:55.880 --> 0:08:00.560 bad dude. But did you dealing with him personally feel 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:02.720 like that his bad dudeness like came from a place 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:06.000 of set like it just I felt like he was 0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:09.080 multi For me, it felt a little more multidimensional than 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:11.200 I wanted him to be. I just wanted to root 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:13.520 against him and him to be so evil. And is 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:15.200 that how you felt when you were chasing like this 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:17.360 is the evil guy? Oh, he absolutely. He's one of 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:19.120 the most evil people that ever walked the face of 0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:22.200 the earth. You know, we credit him with between ten 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:25.440 and fifteen thousand murders, and this is a little bit dark. 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:28.240 One of his Cicario is one of his assassins is 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:30.320 still alive in Columbia. Just got out of prison a 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:32.839 couple of years ago. He's come out and done a movie, 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:35.600 a book, social media, everything, and he's saying the number 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:40.040 is over fifty thousand, over fifty thousand innocent people murdered 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:43.640 by this organization led by Pablo Escobar. So this guy 0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:45.959 is nothing more than a mass murder. He's the world's 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:49.400 first narco terrorist. He's he was the world's most wanted criminal. 0:08:49.520 --> 0:08:53.880 Do you guys feel like that he was like genius 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:57.000 level with his what he was able to do corrupt wise, 0:08:57.120 --> 0:08:59.240 because no one was was it, No one else was 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:02.560 able to do it at the level. It's no, not 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:04.319 at all. I don't want to give this guy credit 0:09:04.360 --> 0:09:10.320 for anything. Um. He did have somewhat of a charismatic personality. Um, 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:14.760 he was viewed as a Robin Hood, which is opposite 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:17.199 of the truth, hundred degrees opposite of what's really true. 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:21.200 He manipulated those poor people what he did though he 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:24.560 had no conscience, he had no remorse, he had no 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:26.240 problem that, Hey, I need you to go do this, 0:09:26.280 --> 0:09:28.040 and if you said no, kill you right there and 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:31.640 then we'll go order lunch. That's a socio and psychopath, 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:36.400 absolutely at the same time. Absolutely multiple personalities, just like 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:39.480 you said, a psycho. But one thing we always and 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:42.560 we really want to get this across. We don't want 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:47.280 this to permeate out to the entire Columbian population. Columbia. 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:49.720 Columbians are some of the nicest people in the world. 0:09:49.720 --> 0:09:52.800 The country is beautiful. Uh, it should be a leading 0:09:52.840 --> 0:09:55.240 world power. They've just got that civil war thing going. 0:09:55.280 --> 0:09:57.880 That's that's holding them back. But we don't want everybody 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:00.000 to think that Columbians are bad people. They're not. In fact, 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:02.800 my two daughters of Columbias, we adopted them down there 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:06.680 and beautiful young ladies. Now tell me about this prison 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:09.600 because I see it on the show like time about 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:11.360 the prison he built. You know, I get to build 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:14.840 his own prison. It's it's well, one thing that Narco's 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:16.800 got wrong in the show. It's much nicer than what 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:19.920 they show. Wait, so you're telling me that the nice 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:22.160 prison on the show was not as nice as the 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:24.760 real life prison he was, really exactly. And that's one 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:26.199 of the things we do in our show. We we 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:30.200 take you inside of Pablo's sweet, not a prison cell, 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:32.360 his sweet. But what makes you guys want to go down? 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:35.520 Like for me, I'm such a little like just a baby. 0:10:35.520 --> 0:10:37.840 I would never have the guts to to even do 0:10:37.920 --> 0:10:41.760 it in America, much less go down to South America 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:47.560 where that's that's not even your terrain. Like what would howe, 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:49.000 what would make you want to go down? Because you 0:10:49.000 --> 0:10:50.719 went down first? Right? Yeah, I went down first. I 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:54.600 get there in and basically, you know what I put 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:57.439 in for Mexico to go to Mexico by boss, have 0:10:57.559 --> 0:11:00.440 your you got to look at for Colombia, said bost 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:04.400 But I didn't put in for Columbia. They're they're voluntary assignments. 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:08.280 So uh, I ended up in Colombia and they, you know, 0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:10.200 my boss at the time says you're gonna work the 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:14.920 Escobar investigation. So uh, everything on my part was pretty 0:11:15.000 --> 0:11:20.520 much you know, a mistake. But once I get to Colombia, 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:24.120 you know, we we had an informal task force that 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:26.280 was going to have to publicistic. And that's when we're 0:11:26.280 --> 0:11:32.079 realized that this guy was just a major, major player, 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:36.760 was pretty much in control of Columbia. And you know what, 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:39.200 we and we dispelled that myth because you're gonna hear 0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:41.000 about it. I think you were alluding to right now 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:44.640 that that Robin Hood, uh persona that Escobar had. You 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:47.200 know what, he gave a lot of money to the poor, 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:50.880 to the church, but he always expected something in return. 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:54.680 This was Publiscoba was no Robin Hood. You know, Publisico 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:57.960 put a bomb on an airline. You have young airline 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:01.720 that killed a hundred people. Uh uh, you know, put 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:04.160 a bomb in front of a building. I mean, so 0:12:04.280 --> 0:12:07.240 we we dispelled that myth. 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M hmm, I have so many questions. 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:14.800 How about I'm curious now you see what's happening in 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:16.840 Mexico with the border and the drug wars happening. Now, 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:21.640 how does that compare to what you were seeing then? Okay, 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:26.280 Publistic bar Remember was his fight was on extradition. You 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:28.200 know this guys did not want to come to the 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:32.400 United States. Also, we're you know, in Mexico, we're seeing 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:37.040 Choppel who's now incarcerated in the United States. Chapel's war 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:41.600 has been more based on intimidation. You know, they'll put 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:44.679 the bodies they want to show the public if you 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:47.360 mess with us, this's gonna happen. You know, they'll put 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:50.640 they'll roll the heads on dance floors, they'll hang bodies 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:55.440 on the bridges. So his war is intimidation and corruption. 0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:59.520 You know, they'll try to buy as many politicians as 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:02.839 ak in Mexico so that they can let their you know, 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:07.600 their dope coming to the United States. So Pablo Escobar's 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:11.480 fight was against the governor Columbia because of the extradition, 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:19.200 whereas Chapel is more of that corruption and intimidation factor 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:21.800 so that they can, uh, so that they will not 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:25.960 mess with him. You guys. You know, even in the show, 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:28.200 it talks about the amount of money that he had 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:30.640 and that the rats would eat a bunch of it. 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:32.840 That he spent three grand a month on rubber bands 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:35.720 for the Well did you ever walk in and just 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:38.320 see just so much money that you were just like, WHOA, 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:41.120 I can't believe this is what I'm witnessing. Yeah, I 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:44.680 saw thirty million dollars in the house and they had 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:46.880 hit it in the in the walls of a house. 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:51.000 Uh So the money. And remember bout back then. If 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:54.160 we're looking at the mid eighties, you know that kilo 0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:57.360 of cocaine in Miami in the mid eighties was going 0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:01.840 for about eighty thousand dollars. That's how publish who was 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:04.760 so rich? Eighty thousand dollars and this guys were doing 0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:08.720 about twenty kilos on a daily basis. And if you 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:10.800 were selling in Europe, you're gonna be getting over a 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:15.320 hundred thousand. So the the profit margin, the cash was 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:18.600 just incredible. His son says, Pablo sign says he hates 0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:21.720 the show. Did you know, how do you feel about 0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:24.040 his son? And you know the things that he's done 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:26.960 in the public. You know, I've I've actually read the 0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:31.560 son's book and I've seen his video. Um, I don't 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:33.440 believe what he says. I think he's trying to create 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:37.240 a different legacy of his father. Um. I was there. 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:39.760 I was not there as as it's depicted a Narco's 0:15:39.760 --> 0:15:41.880 I was not on the roof when Pablo was killed. 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:44.160 That's hollywood. But I did ride out to the scene 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:46.400 with Colonel Martinez and he's the head of the entire 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:49.320 search block. He was our Boston medine and I'm the 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:51.760 one that took all his photographs. I was a local 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:54.040 police officer before I became a federal agent. I've been 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:57.520 trained in murders and suicide investigations. I've worked both, and 0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:01.000 there are telltale signs associated with the SUICI. So he's 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:02.880 trying to say that his dad wasn't killed by the 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:05.640 Columbian National Police, that he was, that he committed suicide 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:08.200 rather than being taken alive. First of all, there was 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:10.720 no intention to take him alive. That it was never 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:14.000 word take him alive. It was the cops were They 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:17.280 were fed up because he killed so many of their brothers. 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:19.320 And just in that eighteen month period from when he 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:21.520 escaped from his prison until the day he was killed, 0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:24.560 a hundred and forty three Columbian National Police officers were 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:27.720 killed as a result of just that one case. I mean, 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:30.320 the guy put a bounty on a Columbian Police officer 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:34.160 of a hundred bucks. Police officer's life was worth one 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:38.880 hundred dollars. That's pathetic. So, you know, and I don't 0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:40.720 mean to get on my soapbox here, but it's a 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:43.440 little bit of a hot topic with me because we 0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:46.560 know what happened, we know the truth the son knows 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:48.680 what happened. He's just choosing to try and to change 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:50.920 the legacy of his dad. And you know what, it's 0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:53.560 turned into a cash industry for him. That's what he's 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:56.440 doing now. So you know my book, he's a liar. 0:16:56.600 --> 0:16:58.160 I'll tell him that to his face. There are still 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:00.840 stories about about Paulo's money and people are still finding it. 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:03.920 Do you believe those stories? And that's really his money? 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:06.560 That is very true. There's still a lot of money 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:09.600 buried in Columbia right now, if they're in Colletas, either 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:14.800 buried stats somewhere, because remember everybody's dead now. In Pablo 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:18.320 would kill a lot of the people that knew where 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:21.000 they hid the money. That way they could not get 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:25.160 to this. So there is still a lot of money buried. Uh. 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:29.600 So you know, we we encourage people take a trip 0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:32.920 to Columbia. Not not really, but there is money buried 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:36.879 because the Calleta guys who used to bury it, you know, 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:40.159 they're all dead. I never thought about that, that they 0:17:40.200 --> 0:17:43.760 would hide it and only they would know it. Then 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:45.479 he would kill them. So he was the only one 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:50.000 that knew. Right, So these fancy houses he built in Columbia, 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:53.720 the architects. Uh, people who used to hide it, they're 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:56.119 all they're all dead and you go down first. And 0:17:56.160 --> 0:17:58.639 I guess did you every day did you feel uncomfortable 0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:02.200 for your life or did it just become part of it? 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:04.680 You know what? And if I could just say, the 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:08.520 part with me was the car bombs. That's what killed 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:11.359 a lot of innocent people being at the wrong place 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:15.119 at the wrong time, because he was placing them in Bolt, 0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:17.960 he was placing them in Medain. He would place him 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:20.600 when we would go outside our base and convoyed. A 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:24.480 lot of police officers got killed. And it to me, 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:27.320 it was just you know, you never knew when where 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:30.280 he was going to put those car bombs. And again, 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:35.280 I just you never knew were you when you'd walk 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:38.240 outside and people know you're not from there? Were you 0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:41.640 the enemy down there all the time? No? Not really. 0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:44.960 The Columbian police, you know, we're um and so we 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:46.760 always make a point that we were there at the 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:48.840 invitation of the Columbian government. You know, we're a couple 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:52.240 of American law enforcing officers. We have zero jurisdiction in 0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:56.160 a foreign country, so you have to be there under 0:18:56.200 --> 0:18:59.639 their invitation. How the thing that was nice about me. 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:01.760 How had been there three years before I ever got there, 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:04.280 so he had already earned their respect. So when I 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:06.680 came in because he vouched for me, I was accepted. 0:19:06.720 --> 0:19:09.520 Now I still had to earn their respect, but that immediate, 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:12.600 you know that, It wasn't that immediate stand offishness where 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:14.320 people are like, hey, who are you? You know you? 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:15.879 And you got to get to know him. That that 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:19.080 helping open a lot of doors for me. But you know, 0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:20.960 I like to joke around that. People say, why did 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:22.960 you do it? Well? I didn't. They didn't hire me 0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:25.760 because I was smart, you know. I did it for 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:28.080 the excitement. I've been in Miami for four years. I'd 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:32.359 had a partner was shot Kevin Stevens and Miami during 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:34.120 the deal that went by, we had a informant killed. 0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:38.000 And honestly it was this sounds kind of strange to 0:19:38.040 --> 0:19:39.800 most people, but it was exciting. It was in a 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:43.080 drilling rush. My wife is into excitement, you know. I 0:19:43.119 --> 0:19:44.800 mean when I met her, she owned her own motorcycle. 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:46.199 How can you not love a woman that owns her 0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:49.359 own motorcycle? Right? So she came to me one day, 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:51.960 she said, Okay, what's our next exciting adventure in life, 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:54.840 and let's go to Colombia. And we did. And I 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:57.240 was in U and I was in Austin, Texas. I 0:19:57.320 --> 0:20:00.480 started my D eight career in Austin ninet four. So 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:03.560 I was doing the street stuff, you know, the surveillances, 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:06.680 you undercover, and Austin beck then had a lot of heroine. 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:09.120 I was buying a lot of heroin on the streets, 0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:13.280 uh believe it or not LLSD, So it was, you know, 0:20:13.320 --> 0:20:15.280 a lot of a big yells d market. So I 0:20:15.480 --> 0:20:18.160 and then so you know, I saw the streets side 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:20.560 of the drug world, and then I wanted to go 0:20:20.800 --> 0:20:25.080