WEBVTT - Social Isolation is a Solvable Problem for People With Disabilities 0:00:15.076 --> 0:00:25.876 Pushkin. This is solvable. I'm Ronald Young Jr. We help 0:00:25.956 --> 0:00:29.036 people be able to play video games because they matter. 0:00:29.796 --> 0:00:31.996 Gaming isn't just a way to unwind and have fun. 0:00:32.156 --> 0:00:34.956 It's a way to connect with other people, whether through casual, 0:00:35.076 --> 0:00:38.596 cooperative play or more competitive play that requires skill. In practice, 0:00:38.836 --> 0:00:42.396 gaming enthusiasts of all ages agree that there's something special 0:00:42.436 --> 0:00:45.116 about the way playing makes them feel. We plug in 0:00:45.396 --> 0:00:47.956 a gas peddle looking device just like you have in 0:00:47.956 --> 0:00:52.076 your car, to an Xbox controller, and we moved the 0:00:52.116 --> 0:00:55.396 foot rest, pulled the little paddle up to the child's foot. 0:00:55.516 --> 0:00:57.996 He pushes down with a little bit of movement. The 0:00:58.076 --> 0:01:02.156 car comes roaring to life, speeds across the speedway, slams 0:01:02.156 --> 0:01:04.516 into the wall in front of him, and he lights 0:01:04.676 --> 0:01:08.276 up like a Christmas tree, just bubbling and giggling and 0:01:08.436 --> 0:01:12.396 having the best time of his life. There's a natural 0:01:12.476 --> 0:01:15.196 learning curve when it comes to playing video games, learning 0:01:15.236 --> 0:01:19.636 the rules, getting to know the controller, learning the button configuration. However, 0:01:19.676 --> 0:01:22.236 for most of us who gain, we may not consider 0:01:22.476 --> 0:01:24.996 that the ability to pick up a controller, press the 0:01:25.036 --> 0:01:28.356 buttons with our fingers, and even speak into the microphone 0:01:28.596 --> 0:01:31.356 are all barriers to entry. For folks who would love 0:01:31.396 --> 0:01:34.236 to get in on the action. There probably are people 0:01:34.276 --> 0:01:37.196 who have gotten an adaptive controller from Xbox and they 0:01:37.276 --> 0:01:39.756 blew off going to somebody's wedding and doing a toast 0:01:39.796 --> 0:01:41.956 because they would have rather played the latest, you know, 0:01:42.196 --> 0:01:45.996 Super Mario Sonic game. It's estimated that nearly two hundred 0:01:45.996 --> 0:01:48.436 forty million people across the US were gaming at some 0:01:48.516 --> 0:01:51.556 point during the lockdown. At about twenty percent of US 0:01:51.636 --> 0:01:56.276 gamers have a disability. There are more people who would 0:01:56.316 --> 0:01:59.276 have been bored out of their minds have they not 0:01:59.396 --> 0:02:03.756 had the ability to connect with these virtual worlds. Stephenspond 0:02:04.036 --> 0:02:07.156 is a writer, a philosopher, a streamer on Twitch, and 0:02:07.236 --> 0:02:10.956 the chief operations officer of the organization Able Gamers, a 0:02:10.996 --> 0:02:14.796 nonprofit organization that advocates for people with physical and mental 0:02:14.796 --> 0:02:18.396 disabilities in the gaming world. They provide peer counseling and 0:02:18.476 --> 0:02:21.836 adaptive technology that helps people play the games they love. 0:02:22.196 --> 0:02:25.476 The clod stick is a great adaptation that you can 0:02:25.476 --> 0:02:27.916 play an entire Xbox with just your mouth. You don't 0:02:27.916 --> 0:02:29.876 need your hands, you don't need your feet, You can 0:02:29.916 --> 0:02:32.756 just use your jaw to move the controller around. And 0:02:32.836 --> 0:02:35.556 there are people out there that could absolutely beat you 0:02:35.596 --> 0:02:38.276 and me up in Street Fighter or anything like that, 0:02:38.396 --> 0:02:42.196 even though we're using another controller. One positive thing that's 0:02:42.196 --> 0:02:44.476 come out of the pandemic is that now more people 0:02:44.556 --> 0:02:47.076 understand what it's like to be trapped at home, which 0:02:47.116 --> 0:02:49.676 is something that able gamers and people with disabilities have 0:02:49.756 --> 0:02:53.396 been trying to explain for years. For someone who lives 0:02:53.436 --> 0:02:56.716 their life with a profound disability, if you spend the 0:02:56.756 --> 0:03:00.436 majority of your time in a bed, in a hospital bed, 0:03:00.556 --> 0:03:03.916 in a room where you don't leave, that becomes an 0:03:03.956 --> 0:03:07.716 isolated place and you start dealing with social isolation in 0:03:07.756 --> 0:03:11.796 a way that before the pandemic most people couldn't really grasp. 0:03:13.036 --> 0:03:17.436 Social isolation is a solvable problem for people with disabilities 0:03:17.476 --> 0:03:27.596 through video games. My mom found and Natari I grew 0:03:27.676 --> 0:03:31.156 up really really poor. My mom took what money she 0:03:31.276 --> 0:03:33.836 had bought me a used atari from one of those 0:03:34.036 --> 0:03:38.476 used electronics stores, and we ended up playing like Burger 0:03:38.636 --> 0:03:41.116 Masher or something where you like, I had to put 0:03:41.116 --> 0:03:43.676 a burger together. It was like little ladders and stuff. 0:03:43.716 --> 0:03:45.916 I think you're talking about Burger type. I can barely 0:03:45.956 --> 0:03:48.396 remember it now, but it was. It was an adorable 0:03:48.516 --> 0:03:50.716 piece of machinery. I think at the time Nintendo was 0:03:50.756 --> 0:03:53.476 already out, but we couldn't afford one of those, so 0:03:53.516 --> 0:03:55.236 she was just really thrilled that I was able to 0:03:55.236 --> 0:03:58.476 operate the controller at all. The earliest one I played 0:03:58.516 --> 0:04:01.156 was Super Mario one and Duck Hunt of course, and 0:04:01.196 --> 0:04:03.676 then I had Super Mario three, but I never got 0:04:03.716 --> 0:04:08.516 Super Mario two, which always which always bothered me. Did 0:04:08.556 --> 0:04:10.876 you play Super are you too? I played all of those, 0:04:10.916 --> 0:04:13.076 although we have to touch on the fact that we 0:04:13.236 --> 0:04:15.836 shot ducks, but there was this annoying dog that kept 0:04:15.836 --> 0:04:17.516 puffing up in the middle of your screen, and you'd 0:04:17.556 --> 0:04:20.276 be like, my dad will get angry and be like, 0:04:20.396 --> 0:04:24.796 why right next to the TV try to shoot the dog, 0:04:26.076 --> 0:04:29.196 which and to be clear, y'all, no dogs were harmed 0:04:29.236 --> 0:04:31.436 in the making of Duck Hunts the video game, not 0:04:31.516 --> 0:04:35.316 that I know of, but yeah, it did not let you. 0:04:35.596 --> 0:04:38.916 So you were diagnosed with spinal muscular atrophy. Can you 0:04:38.996 --> 0:04:41.116 tell me a little bit about how it impacted you 0:04:41.156 --> 0:04:46.916 in gaming? So spinal muscular atrophy is sister disease to ALS. 0:04:47.036 --> 0:04:50.116 So if you saw Stephen Hawkins or have you've known 0:04:50.196 --> 0:04:53.756 anybody who's afflicted with ALS, then you kind of have 0:04:53.836 --> 0:04:56.636 an idea what I'm going through in my life. So essentially, 0:04:56.956 --> 0:04:59.956 my muscles are getting weaker and weaker as time goes on, 0:05:00.356 --> 0:05:05.116 where ALS is much quicker in its development. SMA can 0:05:05.236 --> 0:05:08.156 last for your entire lifetime, so you could live an 0:05:08.276 --> 0:05:12.036 entire set the eighty ninety years and it might never 0:05:12.076 --> 0:05:15.596 take your life, or you might only live for a 0:05:15.596 --> 0:05:18.316 couple of months past birth. When I was born, I 0:05:18.356 --> 0:05:22.276 wasn't able to crawl like a child is supposed to. 0:05:22.476 --> 0:05:25.236 At X amount of milestones. My mom started noticing that 0:05:25.276 --> 0:05:27.676 I was using my arms to pull myself around, that 0:05:27.836 --> 0:05:30.996 my lower legs weren't pushing like they should have been. 0:05:31.836 --> 0:05:34.916 My diagnosis is terminal. I will probably not make it 0:05:34.956 --> 0:05:39.156 to die of old age. But I'm forty now and 0:05:39.196 --> 0:05:40.956 they've been telling me that I probably had a couple 0:05:40.956 --> 0:05:43.756 of years left for about twenty some years now. So yeah, 0:05:43.876 --> 0:05:45.476 I feel like I'm doing that too bad. On that 0:05:45.596 --> 0:05:47.636 you might not want to take out any vegas bets 0:05:47.636 --> 0:05:50.116 on when I'm going to leave this big blue marble. 0:05:50.996 --> 0:05:53.436 Talk a little bit about the online presence of video 0:05:53.436 --> 0:05:55.916 games and how that's created new worlds. How do you 0:05:55.956 --> 0:05:59.476 think that this successibility has been creating new connections for 0:05:59.516 --> 0:06:03.116 disabled folks? For someone who lives their life with a 0:06:03.276 --> 0:06:06.956 profound disability, if you spend the majority of your time 0:06:07.396 --> 0:06:10.196 in bed, in a hospital, little bit in a room 0:06:10.276 --> 0:06:14.116 where you don't leave, that becomes an isolated place and 0:06:14.196 --> 0:06:17.436 you start dealing with social isolation in a way that 0:06:17.836 --> 0:06:22.036 before the pandemic most people couldn't really grasp. So the 0:06:22.076 --> 0:06:24.876 one thing that has come out of the pandemic that 0:06:25.036 --> 0:06:28.476 was a positive for what able gamers does and what 0:06:28.516 --> 0:06:31.876 people with disabilities have been trying to tell people, is 0:06:31.916 --> 0:06:34.476 that now people understand what it's like to be trapped 0:06:34.516 --> 0:06:36.836 in your house, to not be able to leave, to 0:06:36.956 --> 0:06:40.316 have to stay in one place. Now, maybe you probably 0:06:40.396 --> 0:06:42.716 during the pandemic didn't stay in one room and never 0:06:42.796 --> 0:06:45.116 leave the couch. Although that is some people's dream, it's 0:06:45.156 --> 0:06:48.036 not so great. Let me tell you. You know, it's 0:06:48.076 --> 0:06:50.916 a place where do you now understand that being cut 0:06:50.956 --> 0:06:53.956 off from your friends and your family was horrifying. It 0:06:54.036 --> 0:06:57.996 was not fun in any way. People literally continually complained 0:06:58.036 --> 0:07:01.476 about how lonely they were, and that is an epidemic 0:07:01.516 --> 0:07:04.516 that we largely ignore. It's not about the games. The 0:07:04.636 --> 0:07:07.956 games actually don't matter. Games are fun, games are very 0:07:08.036 --> 0:07:11.756 very cool, but it's the connection to other humans that 0:07:11.796 --> 0:07:14.956 we were really seeking. We're looking for a form of independence, 0:07:14.956 --> 0:07:16.916 We're looking for a form of being able to reach 0:07:16.916 --> 0:07:18.996 out and connect to our loved ones in a way 0:07:19.036 --> 0:07:25.356 that we can facilitate a great experience and those shared experiences. 0:07:25.596 --> 0:07:27.436 That's what this is really all about. That's what able 0:07:27.476 --> 0:07:29.916 gamers is about. That's what being an advocate for people 0:07:29.916 --> 0:07:34.556 with disabilities is all about. Building experiences. When did you 0:07:34.556 --> 0:07:36.796 start making the connection that you were, like, really into 0:07:36.836 --> 0:07:39.236 video games and that this was something you wanted to 0:07:39.236 --> 0:07:41.516 play more of, even though playing them might be difficult. 0:07:42.276 --> 0:07:45.876 You know, it never crossed my mind that playing them 0:07:45.956 --> 0:07:49.156 would be difficult, because everything in my life is difficult. 0:07:49.196 --> 0:07:51.356 Getting up in the morning is difficult. You know. I 0:07:51.436 --> 0:07:54.556 always love the joke that I am just like you, Ronald. 0:07:54.596 --> 0:07:56.316 I wake up in the morning and put my pants 0:07:56.356 --> 0:07:59.916 on with a team of people, So you know, it's, 0:07:59.956 --> 0:08:02.636 you know, no different. And you know, that's really where 0:08:02.636 --> 0:08:04.196 it was for me with video games, where I just 0:08:04.236 --> 0:08:07.516 wanted to play them. However it was that I had 0:08:07.556 --> 0:08:10.196 to do that, whether that was with standard controller or 0:08:10.236 --> 0:08:12.316 whether that was with some help. It was one of 0:08:12.356 --> 0:08:16.556 those situations whereas video games become more accessible, they become 0:08:16.676 --> 0:08:20.356 less accessible. So originally we have the you know, super 0:08:20.436 --> 0:08:23.956 Nintendo controller, the Nintendo controller with two or three buttons, 0:08:23.956 --> 0:08:26.396 and you can lay them down on a table and 0:08:26.436 --> 0:08:28.796 I would play it like somebody with a piano just 0:08:28.916 --> 0:08:30.436 right in front of me, with you know, using my 0:08:30.476 --> 0:08:34.076 fingertips to move to manipulate the paddles. And then the 0:08:34.116 --> 0:08:37.076 same thing with Sega. But then you started having buttons 0:08:37.076 --> 0:08:40.356 behind the controller and under the controller, and God help 0:08:40.396 --> 0:08:42.636 you if you tried to play the Nintendo sixty four 0:08:42.676 --> 0:08:44.516 where you needed an alien arm to be able to 0:08:44.596 --> 0:08:48.076 hold it, yeah, the middle. Nobody knows why that was there, nobody. 0:08:48.996 --> 0:08:52.476 So they started coming able, these drastically different controllers, and 0:08:52.476 --> 0:08:54.716 they were hard, they were hard to use. They didn't 0:08:54.756 --> 0:08:56.636 go on a table. You had to hold them in 0:08:56.676 --> 0:08:59.476 your hands or your lap, and so it became more 0:08:59.476 --> 0:09:03.396 and more difficult to play consoles. And fortunately for me, 0:09:03.516 --> 0:09:07.276 that's when the PC gaming really started taking off. And 0:09:07.956 --> 0:09:12.116 I was actually going to school to be an assistant 0:09:12.156 --> 0:09:16.916 engineer an AutoCAD class, and one of my buddies there 0:09:17.756 --> 0:09:20.676 was working at an electronic store, so he was able 0:09:20.716 --> 0:09:23.116 to get a hold of like used parts and stuff 0:09:23.116 --> 0:09:26.476 like that. So we callbled together an older used PC 0:09:27.396 --> 0:09:30.996 and I was able to get into online games, and 0:09:31.036 --> 0:09:32.996 that that was sort of the beginning for me. Was 0:09:33.316 --> 0:09:36.596 he started talking about this this universe where you know, 0:09:36.676 --> 0:09:39.636 he was in class, but there was this guild that 0:09:39.676 --> 0:09:42.396 he was running and they were busy farming materials and 0:09:42.516 --> 0:09:45.876 working on you know, this this apparatus and this world 0:09:45.916 --> 0:09:50.276 of Ultima Online was constantly running. And Ultima is a 0:09:50.316 --> 0:09:54.756 massive multiplayer online role playing game. Otherwise noticed that MMOARPG. 0:09:55.356 --> 0:09:57.436 People love these games. They can just go on and 0:09:57.516 --> 0:10:00.836 on and there's expansions and new people to meet, new 0:10:00.836 --> 0:10:03.436 things to play all the time. But you just live 0:10:03.476 --> 0:10:07.116 in this online world. And it was so fascinating to 0:10:07.156 --> 0:10:11.636 me that a digital virtual existence could be out there 0:10:12.076 --> 0:10:14.756 existing at the same time as real life, and you 0:10:14.756 --> 0:10:17.436 could be earning money or working or doing whatever you 0:10:17.476 --> 0:10:20.756 wanted to in this virtual world. And so I really 0:10:20.836 --> 0:10:22.436 kind of got to the point where I just threw 0:10:22.556 --> 0:10:26.276 myself into it and realized that well, if my physical 0:10:26.356 --> 0:10:28.636 body wasn't going to keep up with my mind, then 0:10:28.756 --> 0:10:31.556 maybe my virtual self could. So in terms of what 0:10:31.596 --> 0:10:34.156 you're doing at able gamers, how do you actually improve 0:10:34.236 --> 0:10:38.716 accessibility between video games and a disabled community. Yeah, you know, 0:10:38.796 --> 0:10:42.236 Able Gamers does accessibility in a lot of ways. One 0:10:42.316 --> 0:10:46.156 of our pillars, as we call them, of our organization 0:10:46.436 --> 0:10:52.356 is engineering where we literally create controllers, sometimes from scratch 0:10:52.476 --> 0:10:55.996 at a three D printing, out of household objects, out 0:10:56.036 --> 0:10:59.316 of controllers that already exist that need modified slightly, and 0:10:59.436 --> 0:11:02.796 give them for free through our peer counseling, which is 0:11:02.836 --> 0:11:06.596 another pillar, to people who have difficulty playing games with 0:11:06.676 --> 0:11:11.196 a standard controller. So it's not a a matter of able Gamers, 0:11:11.956 --> 0:11:14.116 you know, being a fast food restaurant where a person 0:11:14.116 --> 0:11:16.356 with disabilities can pull up and be like, yes, I 0:11:16.396 --> 0:11:19.356 will take a number five with the fault, it's like no. 0:11:19.676 --> 0:11:22.836 You go into you know, an actual area and we 0:11:22.916 --> 0:11:25.396 consult with you for up to eight to sixteen hours, 0:11:25.476 --> 0:11:27.916 and we look into your life. What are your challenges, 0:11:27.916 --> 0:11:30.596 what are your desires? How can we use technology the 0:11:30.596 --> 0:11:34.436 bridge the gap between the two and fulfill your life 0:11:34.596 --> 0:11:38.356 by introducing YouTube and environment where people can hang out 0:11:38.396 --> 0:11:40.796 with you virtually and you can be with friends and 0:11:40.916 --> 0:11:44.556 family just like you want to be using these specially 0:11:44.556 --> 0:11:47.316 made controllers. For example, of the quad stick is a 0:11:47.356 --> 0:11:50.436 great adaptation that you can play an entire Xbox with 0:11:50.516 --> 0:11:52.316 just your mouth. You don't need your hands, you don't 0:11:52.356 --> 0:11:54.636 need your feat You can just use your jaw to 0:11:54.756 --> 0:11:57.556 move the controller around. And there are people out there 0:11:57.636 --> 0:12:00.276 that could absolutely beat you and me up in Street 0:12:00.316 --> 0:12:03.876 Fighter or anything like that. They work great, They're just 0:12:04.236 --> 0:12:07.676 massively up there on the learning curve. You have to 0:12:07.716 --> 0:12:09.916 really really want to play games with just your mouth. 0:12:10.796 --> 0:12:12.236 So it sounds like you guys do a lot on 0:12:12.276 --> 0:12:15.996 the back end of adapting video games after market, after 0:12:16.076 --> 0:12:20.036 things already made to allow disabled folks to play. What 0:12:20.116 --> 0:12:23.676 type of advocacy are you doing to get video game 0:12:23.756 --> 0:12:28.836 companies to make their hardware software more accessible. I can 0:12:28.876 --> 0:12:30.876 tell you that there is not a day that goes 0:12:30.916 --> 0:12:34.436 by that someone in the organization is not contacted by 0:12:34.956 --> 0:12:38.356 a Triple A developer asking how they develop a new 0:12:38.876 --> 0:12:41.836 X title for X system in a more accessible way. 0:12:42.156 --> 0:12:45.276 We have so many people now that reach out to 0:12:45.356 --> 0:12:48.236 us because the industry has woken up and they've realized 0:12:48.356 --> 0:12:51.996 that disabled people are a viable market. You know, you 0:12:51.996 --> 0:12:54.716 don't have to change your entire video games to support 0:12:54.756 --> 0:12:57.276 people with disabilities. You just have to allow options that 0:12:57.316 --> 0:12:59.196 allow people to play the game that you would design. 0:12:59.516 --> 0:13:01.876 We've been doing this for sixteen years now. The first 0:13:01.876 --> 0:13:04.596 ten years was just convincing the industry that people of 0:13:04.676 --> 0:13:07.116 disabilities were out there, they wanted to play games, they 0:13:07.156 --> 0:13:10.516 wanted to continue to be Are these worlds, these wonderful 0:13:10.636 --> 0:13:13.316 virtual worlds that we all love? Right in the last 0:13:13.356 --> 0:13:16.076 four or five years is where you've seen enable gamers pivot. 0:13:16.276 --> 0:13:19.676 And now instead of convincing people that they should care, 0:13:19.916 --> 0:13:23.116 we're convincing them that these kind of things are worth 0:13:23.156 --> 0:13:26.436 putting a few dollars behind. Whether that's a person donating 0:13:26.476 --> 0:13:28.996 to the organization to be able to fund the controllers 0:13:28.996 --> 0:13:31.476 that need to be given out, or it's from a 0:13:31.556 --> 0:13:37.116 major place that has developers that are developing games. And 0:13:37.156 --> 0:13:41.956 so we developed an entire course at Accessible dot Games. 0:13:42.196 --> 0:13:44.916 Accessible dot Games is where you can go see right 0:13:44.956 --> 0:13:49.756 now our program called Accessible Player Experiences, and it's all 0:13:49.836 --> 0:13:54.716 about input patterns, it's all about development where you can 0:13:54.756 --> 0:13:57.396 go and you can look and say, all right, well, 0:13:57.596 --> 0:14:02.956 if you only have the ability to have one functioning arm, 0:14:03.196 --> 0:14:06.556 what are some of the things that would be pertinent 0:14:06.636 --> 0:14:09.876 to that particurely disability? What are some of the things 0:14:09.916 --> 0:14:13.116 that like undo redo, Like what should I design in 0:14:13.156 --> 0:14:15.476 my game so that if someone you know has a 0:14:15.476 --> 0:14:18.076 cognitive disability, or they have a tremor where they click 0:14:18.116 --> 0:14:20.436 the wrong button. What's the way that I can make 0:14:20.476 --> 0:14:22.836 that easier for them? Oh, I just allow them to 0:14:22.916 --> 0:14:25.596 undo what they just did and do it again. Easy done. 0:14:25.756 --> 0:14:28.236 And so instead of trying to look at this as 0:14:28.316 --> 0:14:32.036 a checklist of items like you must have closed capturing, 0:14:32.076 --> 0:14:33.996 you must have the ability to push the A button 0:14:34.076 --> 0:14:36.676 twice like, it's not up to us. We're not here 0:14:36.676 --> 0:14:38.396 to tell you how to develop a game. Are All 0:14:38.476 --> 0:14:40.996 we're here to do is change your mindset to be 0:14:41.076 --> 0:14:44.276 accessible so that you can start looking at development in 0:14:44.316 --> 0:14:48.636 a way that you understand that people aren't necessarily going 0:14:48.676 --> 0:14:51.636 to play the way that we often thought they did. 0:14:51.796 --> 0:14:54.196 Maybe they're going to use special controllers, maybe they're going 0:14:54.236 --> 0:14:56.996 to have limited staminam, maybe they have pain levels they 0:14:56.996 --> 0:14:59.516 have to deal with. There are more people out there 0:14:59.516 --> 0:15:01.596 that you need to be thinking about when you develop, 0:15:02.036 --> 0:15:09.276 rather than just your average joe able bodied person. So 0:15:09.356 --> 0:15:13.316 people with disabilities are already isolated from the physical world. 0:15:13.636 --> 0:15:16.756 Do you think that connecting them with video games runs 0:15:16.756 --> 0:15:20.236 the risk of further isolating them. That's a great question, right, 0:15:20.276 --> 0:15:22.876 So if you have a situation, did your life where 0:15:23.116 --> 0:15:25.356 you're going to be stuck inside and you're going to 0:15:25.436 --> 0:15:29.716 be watching TV. If you're not playing a video game 0:15:29.716 --> 0:15:31.996 with friends, then why wouldn't I want to give you 0:15:32.036 --> 0:15:35.836 the avenue to have the social interaction the way that 0:15:35.996 --> 0:15:38.756 you wish it to be. You know, are there people 0:15:38.796 --> 0:15:43.836 out there who don't follow the everything in moderation rule 0:15:43.876 --> 0:15:46.956 of life? Probably? There probably are people who have gotten 0:15:46.996 --> 0:15:49.916 an adaptive controller from Xbox and they blew off going 0:15:49.956 --> 0:15:52.356 to somebody's wedding and doing a toast because they would 0:15:52.356 --> 0:15:55.756 have rather played the latest, you know, Super Mario Sonic game. 0:15:56.116 --> 0:15:59.076 I can't tell you whether or not that's happened. What 0:15:59.236 --> 0:16:01.796 I can tell you is that there are more people 0:16:02.036 --> 0:16:04.956 who would have been bored out of their minds had 0:16:04.996 --> 0:16:08.196 they not had the ability to connect with these virtual 0:16:08.236 --> 0:16:12.036 worlds than people who misuse the technology and have gotten 0:16:12.036 --> 0:16:15.796 addicted to, you know, shooting pinball with their friends. What's 0:16:15.836 --> 0:16:19.036 what's your favorite game that you're playing right now? My 0:16:19.116 --> 0:16:22.676 favorite game right now is probably Rocket League. Yes, it's 0:16:22.716 --> 0:16:25.436 really good. Yes? Yes, okay, you are you on a 0:16:25.516 --> 0:16:28.796 PS four? I am on I'm on PC. Okay, so 0:16:29.036 --> 0:16:32.316 we'll have to Yeah, we have to exchange my game 0:16:32.356 --> 0:16:34.236 attack is, Oh, it's big ron, so you have to 0:16:34.236 --> 0:16:37.116 exchange gamer. But I I'm rusty, I haven't played in 0:16:37.156 --> 0:16:39.636 a while, and I started playing Fortnite, uh and during 0:16:39.636 --> 0:16:42.676 the pandemic. And but Mike, I mean, there's something there's 0:16:42.676 --> 0:16:48.756 something humiliating about being devastated by like an eleven year old. Yeah, 0:16:48.796 --> 0:16:51.316 but you were killed by a bunny rabbit who was 0:16:51.356 --> 0:16:54.956 surfing on a rocket who was doing cheering, chirping noises 0:16:54.956 --> 0:16:57.036 that managed to home in on you from a thousand 0:16:57.076 --> 0:17:00.556 feet away. There, you can't be mad about that. Likes 0:17:00.876 --> 0:17:04.276 it's not serious, and you know, that's what I really 0:17:04.276 --> 0:17:06.436 like about those kind of games. It's just that it's 0:17:06.436 --> 0:17:08.996 a competitive nature. And sure, you know, I'm proud of 0:17:08.996 --> 0:17:11.156 the fact that I only play with a mouse and 0:17:11.236 --> 0:17:13.196 a tracker on my head. I don't use a keyboard, 0:17:13.276 --> 0:17:15.756 I don't use the controller, and I'm you know, freaking 0:17:15.796 --> 0:17:18.436 diamond in Rocket League. So I'm proud that I was 0:17:18.436 --> 0:17:21.916 going to ask because I'm like silver three. I want 0:17:21.916 --> 0:17:24.516 to say, so we're so you're obt of the game 0:17:24.636 --> 0:17:26.236 is just like soccer. You're just trying to score the 0:17:26.236 --> 0:17:30.556 ball into the other team's goal and there's a hierarchy system, Steve, 0:17:30.596 --> 0:17:33.916 you want to explain the hierarchy system. Yeah, so the hierarchy. 0:17:33.956 --> 0:17:35.916 The way the game works is like every video game 0:17:35.956 --> 0:17:38.436 has a ranking system where you start at bronze and 0:17:38.476 --> 0:17:41.196 then you progress to silver and then gold and Platinum 0:17:41.196 --> 0:17:44.596 and then Diamond and then Champion, and what the ranks 0:17:44.636 --> 0:17:46.756 are changes based on the game, but it's always the 0:17:46.876 --> 0:17:50.356 same five rank system, which basically allows the game to 0:17:50.476 --> 0:17:53.116 put you up against people a similar skill level so 0:17:53.156 --> 0:17:55.796 that people who are lower skill level don't get destroyed 0:17:55.796 --> 0:17:58.316 by the higher skill levels and feel bad about themselves, 0:17:58.436 --> 0:18:00.436 and then the people at the top don't get bored 0:18:00.476 --> 0:18:03.636 because they don't have a competition exactly. You know what's 0:18:03.676 --> 0:18:06.476 funny is, as I spent so many years getting destroyed 0:18:06.796 --> 0:18:08.956 in every other game online saying, you know what, I 0:18:09.156 --> 0:18:11.876 still want to play online anymore until Rocket League comes along. 0:18:11.876 --> 0:18:13.396 It's like, come on, Ronald, You'll play with a bunch 0:18:13.396 --> 0:18:15.676 of other people who are all as terrible as you are, 0:18:15.876 --> 0:18:18.276 and you'll have fun. It'll be really competitive because you'll 0:18:18.276 --> 0:18:20.476 all like you'll all like you'll all be terrible in 0:18:20.516 --> 0:18:27.356 the same way together while like learning the game. Absolutely, Steve, clearly, 0:18:27.396 --> 0:18:29.596 I love video games. You love video games, and I'm 0:18:29.596 --> 0:18:31.676 guessing a lot of our listeners do too. What are 0:18:31.716 --> 0:18:33.596 some things they could do to help make gaming more 0:18:33.596 --> 0:18:35.756 accessible for everyone? Of course, I'm going to tell you 0:18:35.796 --> 0:18:38.476 that we need donations. You can go to able gamers 0:18:38.516 --> 0:18:40.756 dot org. You can check us out on any of 0:18:40.756 --> 0:18:44.276 the social media's able gamers. So if you have a dollar, 0:18:44.436 --> 0:18:47.396 five dollars, twenty thousand dollars, it doesn't matter if you 0:18:47.556 --> 0:18:50.636 have that kind of cash to give out that it helps. 0:18:50.996 --> 0:18:53.716 So the average controller is three hundred and fifty dollars 0:18:53.756 --> 0:18:56.876 to make the average session for someone to sit with 0:18:56.956 --> 0:18:59.596 us and be fully funded to go through peer counseling 0:18:59.676 --> 0:19:02.756 is about eight hundred and fifty dollars that goes through 0:19:03.236 --> 0:19:07.916 you know, up much higher if someone has a profound disability, 0:19:07.996 --> 0:19:10.876 that takes you know, more time getting to know them 0:19:11.236 --> 0:19:13.596 and their situation and how to help them on a 0:19:13.716 --> 0:19:17.916 very personal level. But you know, that's that's where essentially 0:19:17.956 --> 0:19:22.236 your donations go. So if you have the ability to, 0:19:22.396 --> 0:19:25.356 we always say please consider a donation. If you are 0:19:25.396 --> 0:19:28.076 not in a place where financially that makes sense, you 0:19:28.116 --> 0:19:31.396 can always just talk about able gamers and people with disabilities. 0:19:31.476 --> 0:19:34.836 Now that sounds extremely generic. Here's the thing about that 0:19:35.236 --> 0:19:38.756 game companies only care about what is being talked about. 0:19:38.876 --> 0:19:42.796 So if people aren't talking about how accessibility options are important, 0:19:42.916 --> 0:19:45.676 about how they want to support people with disabilities, about 0:19:45.676 --> 0:19:48.316 how people with disabilities matter in games, and they want 0:19:48.356 --> 0:19:51.396 to see that representation for people that don't look like them, 0:19:51.716 --> 0:19:55.636 then the support goes away. The only reason that companies 0:19:56.356 --> 0:20:00.316 support initiatives for people that are not quote unquote in 0:20:00.356 --> 0:20:03.996 the mainstream audience is by them figuring out that, oh, 0:20:04.076 --> 0:20:06.156 they are in the mainstream audience and they do matter, 0:20:06.276 --> 0:20:08.316 and we can make money off of them. And that's 0:20:08.316 --> 0:20:11.236 how we get that done. Is about you going out 0:20:11.276 --> 0:20:14.436 to Twitter, you going out to Instagram talking about this 0:20:14.516 --> 0:20:18.076 kind of thing, tweeting at your favorite companies, facebooking. You know, 0:20:18.476 --> 0:20:20.516 that's how you can support able game was the best. 0:20:20.956 --> 0:20:23.756 And if you're a developer out there listening, go to 0:20:24.036 --> 0:20:27.276 Accessible dot Games. It's a free thing. You can go 0:20:27.356 --> 0:20:31.156 check out all the material for free. Right now. There 0:20:31.316 --> 0:20:35.356 is a certified course that you can take for a 0:20:35.396 --> 0:20:38.436 couple hundred dollars to be certified to be able to 0:20:38.436 --> 0:20:41.676 be an accessible developer. But if that's not within the 0:20:41.716 --> 0:20:44.356 budget of your studio. You can always look at the 0:20:44.436 --> 0:20:47.436 material for free online and check it out and incorporate 0:20:47.476 --> 0:20:50.516 that into your next game. Are there any movies or 0:20:50.556 --> 0:20:53.716 books to learn more about accessibility generally? There is a 0:20:53.716 --> 0:20:57.076 great documentary called crypt Camp. It's on Netflix right now, 0:20:57.236 --> 0:21:00.116 you can check it out. It goes through the entirety 0:21:00.156 --> 0:21:02.236 of like what it's like to be a disabled person 0:21:02.396 --> 0:21:06.876 and what it is that people maybe not seeing in 0:21:06.916 --> 0:21:09.596 their everyday lives the people disabilities have to go through. 0:21:09.996 --> 0:21:13.916 There's also a great movie that was released years ago. 0:21:14.596 --> 0:21:17.956 It was all about the ada the creation of it, 0:21:18.036 --> 0:21:22.996 called The Sound of Thought, and it's really about how 0:21:23.076 --> 0:21:25.756 these two guys, one who was disabled, one who was not, 0:21:26.236 --> 0:21:30.316 wanted the ability to go out into public without being 0:21:30.356 --> 0:21:34.316 harassed for being disabled, and how businesses really weren't taking 0:21:34.356 --> 0:21:38.876 the disability community seriously. It's very heartwrenching to me to 0:21:38.996 --> 0:21:43.316 remember and to remind people that if you are thirty 0:21:43.316 --> 0:21:47.076 five years old or older within your lifetime, it was 0:21:47.196 --> 0:21:51.316 legal to discriminate against people at disabilities. If I had 0:21:51.356 --> 0:21:53.596