1 00:00:15,076 --> 00:00:25,876 Speaker 1: Pushkin. This is solvable. I'm Ronald Young Jr. We help 2 00:00:25,956 --> 00:00:29,036 Speaker 1: people be able to play video games because they matter. 3 00:00:29,796 --> 00:00:31,996 Speaker 1: Gaming isn't just a way to unwind and have fun. 4 00:00:32,156 --> 00:00:34,956 Speaker 1: It's a way to connect with other people, whether through casual, 5 00:00:35,076 --> 00:00:38,596 Speaker 1: cooperative play or more competitive play that requires skill. In practice, 6 00:00:38,836 --> 00:00:42,396 Speaker 1: gaming enthusiasts of all ages agree that there's something special 7 00:00:42,436 --> 00:00:45,116 Speaker 1: about the way playing makes them feel. We plug in 8 00:00:45,396 --> 00:00:47,956 Speaker 1: a gas peddle looking device just like you have in 9 00:00:47,956 --> 00:00:52,076 Speaker 1: your car, to an Xbox controller, and we moved the 10 00:00:52,116 --> 00:00:55,396 Speaker 1: foot rest, pulled the little paddle up to the child's foot. 11 00:00:55,516 --> 00:00:57,996 Speaker 1: He pushes down with a little bit of movement. The 12 00:00:58,076 --> 00:01:02,156 Speaker 1: car comes roaring to life, speeds across the speedway, slams 13 00:01:02,156 --> 00:01:04,516 Speaker 1: into the wall in front of him, and he lights 14 00:01:04,676 --> 00:01:08,276 Speaker 1: up like a Christmas tree, just bubbling and giggling and 15 00:01:08,436 --> 00:01:12,396 Speaker 1: having the best time of his life. There's a natural 16 00:01:12,476 --> 00:01:15,196 Speaker 1: learning curve when it comes to playing video games, learning 17 00:01:15,236 --> 00:01:19,636 Speaker 1: the rules, getting to know the controller, learning the button configuration. However, 18 00:01:19,676 --> 00:01:22,236 Speaker 1: for most of us who gain, we may not consider 19 00:01:22,476 --> 00:01:24,996 Speaker 1: that the ability to pick up a controller, press the 20 00:01:25,036 --> 00:01:28,356 Speaker 1: buttons with our fingers, and even speak into the microphone 21 00:01:28,596 --> 00:01:31,356 Speaker 1: are all barriers to entry. For folks who would love 22 00:01:31,396 --> 00:01:34,236 Speaker 1: to get in on the action. There probably are people 23 00:01:34,276 --> 00:01:37,196 Speaker 1: who have gotten an adaptive controller from Xbox and they 24 00:01:37,276 --> 00:01:39,756 Speaker 1: blew off going to somebody's wedding and doing a toast 25 00:01:39,796 --> 00:01:41,956 Speaker 1: because they would have rather played the latest, you know, 26 00:01:42,196 --> 00:01:45,996 Speaker 1: Super Mario Sonic game. It's estimated that nearly two hundred 27 00:01:45,996 --> 00:01:48,436 Speaker 1: forty million people across the US were gaming at some 28 00:01:48,516 --> 00:01:51,556 Speaker 1: point during the lockdown. At about twenty percent of US 29 00:01:51,636 --> 00:01:56,276 Speaker 1: gamers have a disability. There are more people who would 30 00:01:56,316 --> 00:01:59,276 Speaker 1: have been bored out of their minds have they not 31 00:01:59,396 --> 00:02:03,756 Speaker 1: had the ability to connect with these virtual worlds. Stephenspond 32 00:02:04,036 --> 00:02:07,156 Speaker 1: is a writer, a philosopher, a streamer on Twitch, and 33 00:02:07,236 --> 00:02:10,956 Speaker 1: the chief operations officer of the organization Able Gamers, a 34 00:02:10,996 --> 00:02:14,796 Speaker 1: nonprofit organization that advocates for people with physical and mental 35 00:02:14,796 --> 00:02:18,396 Speaker 1: disabilities in the gaming world. They provide peer counseling and 36 00:02:18,476 --> 00:02:21,836 Speaker 1: adaptive technology that helps people play the games they love. 37 00:02:22,196 --> 00:02:25,476 Speaker 1: The clod stick is a great adaptation that you can 38 00:02:25,476 --> 00:02:27,916 Speaker 1: play an entire Xbox with just your mouth. You don't 39 00:02:27,916 --> 00:02:29,876 Speaker 1: need your hands, you don't need your feet, You can 40 00:02:29,916 --> 00:02:32,756 Speaker 1: just use your jaw to move the controller around. And 41 00:02:32,836 --> 00:02:35,556 Speaker 1: there are people out there that could absolutely beat you 42 00:02:35,596 --> 00:02:38,276 Speaker 1: and me up in Street Fighter or anything like that, 43 00:02:38,396 --> 00:02:42,196 Speaker 1: even though we're using another controller. One positive thing that's 44 00:02:42,196 --> 00:02:44,476 Speaker 1: come out of the pandemic is that now more people 45 00:02:44,556 --> 00:02:47,076 Speaker 1: understand what it's like to be trapped at home, which 46 00:02:47,116 --> 00:02:49,676 Speaker 1: is something that able gamers and people with disabilities have 47 00:02:49,756 --> 00:02:53,396 Speaker 1: been trying to explain for years. For someone who lives 48 00:02:53,436 --> 00:02:56,716 Speaker 1: their life with a profound disability, if you spend the 49 00:02:56,756 --> 00:03:00,436 Speaker 1: majority of your time in a bed, in a hospital bed, 50 00:03:00,556 --> 00:03:03,916 Speaker 1: in a room where you don't leave, that becomes an 51 00:03:03,956 --> 00:03:07,716 Speaker 1: isolated place and you start dealing with social isolation in 52 00:03:07,756 --> 00:03:11,796 Speaker 1: a way that before the pandemic most people couldn't really grasp. 53 00:03:13,036 --> 00:03:17,436 Speaker 1: Social isolation is a solvable problem for people with disabilities 54 00:03:17,476 --> 00:03:27,596 Speaker 1: through video games. My mom found and Natari I grew 55 00:03:27,676 --> 00:03:31,156 Speaker 1: up really really poor. My mom took what money she 56 00:03:31,276 --> 00:03:33,836 Speaker 1: had bought me a used atari from one of those 57 00:03:34,036 --> 00:03:38,476 Speaker 1: used electronics stores, and we ended up playing like Burger 58 00:03:38,636 --> 00:03:41,116 Speaker 1: Masher or something where you like, I had to put 59 00:03:41,116 --> 00:03:43,676 Speaker 1: a burger together. It was like little ladders and stuff. 60 00:03:43,716 --> 00:03:45,916 Speaker 1: I think you're talking about Burger type. I can barely 61 00:03:45,956 --> 00:03:48,396 Speaker 1: remember it now, but it was. It was an adorable 62 00:03:48,516 --> 00:03:50,716 Speaker 1: piece of machinery. I think at the time Nintendo was 63 00:03:50,756 --> 00:03:53,476 Speaker 1: already out, but we couldn't afford one of those, so 64 00:03:53,516 --> 00:03:55,236 Speaker 1: she was just really thrilled that I was able to 65 00:03:55,236 --> 00:03:58,476 Speaker 1: operate the controller at all. The earliest one I played 66 00:03:58,516 --> 00:04:01,156 Speaker 1: was Super Mario one and Duck Hunt of course, and 67 00:04:01,196 --> 00:04:03,676 Speaker 1: then I had Super Mario three, but I never got 68 00:04:03,716 --> 00:04:08,516 Speaker 1: Super Mario two, which always which always bothered me. Did 69 00:04:08,556 --> 00:04:10,876 Speaker 1: you play Super are you too? I played all of those, 70 00:04:10,916 --> 00:04:13,076 Speaker 1: although we have to touch on the fact that we 71 00:04:13,236 --> 00:04:15,836 Speaker 1: shot ducks, but there was this annoying dog that kept 72 00:04:15,836 --> 00:04:17,516 Speaker 1: puffing up in the middle of your screen, and you'd 73 00:04:17,556 --> 00:04:20,276 Speaker 1: be like, my dad will get angry and be like, 74 00:04:20,396 --> 00:04:24,796 Speaker 1: why right next to the TV try to shoot the dog, 75 00:04:26,076 --> 00:04:29,196 Speaker 1: which and to be clear, y'all, no dogs were harmed 76 00:04:29,236 --> 00:04:31,436 Speaker 1: in the making of Duck Hunts the video game, not 77 00:04:31,516 --> 00:04:35,316 Speaker 1: that I know of, but yeah, it did not let you. 78 00:04:35,596 --> 00:04:38,916 Speaker 1: So you were diagnosed with spinal muscular atrophy. Can you 79 00:04:38,996 --> 00:04:41,116 Speaker 1: tell me a little bit about how it impacted you 80 00:04:41,156 --> 00:04:46,916 Speaker 1: in gaming? So spinal muscular atrophy is sister disease to ALS. 81 00:04:47,036 --> 00:04:50,116 Speaker 1: So if you saw Stephen Hawkins or have you've known 82 00:04:50,196 --> 00:04:53,756 Speaker 1: anybody who's afflicted with ALS, then you kind of have 83 00:04:53,836 --> 00:04:56,636 Speaker 1: an idea what I'm going through in my life. So essentially, 84 00:04:56,956 --> 00:04:59,956 Speaker 1: my muscles are getting weaker and weaker as time goes on, 85 00:05:00,356 --> 00:05:05,116 Speaker 1: where ALS is much quicker in its development. SMA can 86 00:05:05,236 --> 00:05:08,156 Speaker 1: last for your entire lifetime, so you could live an 87 00:05:08,276 --> 00:05:12,036 Speaker 1: entire set the eighty ninety years and it might never 88 00:05:12,076 --> 00:05:15,596 Speaker 1: take your life, or you might only live for a 89 00:05:15,596 --> 00:05:18,316 Speaker 1: couple of months past birth. When I was born, I 90 00:05:18,356 --> 00:05:22,276 Speaker 1: wasn't able to crawl like a child is supposed to. 91 00:05:22,476 --> 00:05:25,236 Speaker 1: At X amount of milestones. My mom started noticing that 92 00:05:25,276 --> 00:05:27,676 Speaker 1: I was using my arms to pull myself around, that 93 00:05:27,836 --> 00:05:30,996 Speaker 1: my lower legs weren't pushing like they should have been. 94 00:05:31,836 --> 00:05:34,916 Speaker 1: My diagnosis is terminal. I will probably not make it 95 00:05:34,956 --> 00:05:39,156 Speaker 1: to die of old age. But I'm forty now and 96 00:05:39,196 --> 00:05:40,956 Speaker 1: they've been telling me that I probably had a couple 97 00:05:40,956 --> 00:05:43,756 Speaker 1: of years left for about twenty some years now. So yeah, 98 00:05:43,876 --> 00:05:45,476 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm doing that too bad. On that 99 00:05:45,596 --> 00:05:47,636 Speaker 1: you might not want to take out any vegas bets 100 00:05:47,636 --> 00:05:50,116 Speaker 1: on when I'm going to leave this big blue marble. 101 00:05:50,996 --> 00:05:53,436 Speaker 1: Talk a little bit about the online presence of video 102 00:05:53,436 --> 00:05:55,916 Speaker 1: games and how that's created new worlds. How do you 103 00:05:55,956 --> 00:05:59,476 Speaker 1: think that this successibility has been creating new connections for 104 00:05:59,516 --> 00:06:03,116 Speaker 1: disabled folks? For someone who lives their life with a 105 00:06:03,276 --> 00:06:06,956 Speaker 1: profound disability, if you spend the majority of your time 106 00:06:07,396 --> 00:06:10,196 Speaker 1: in bed, in a hospital, little bit in a room 107 00:06:10,276 --> 00:06:14,116 Speaker 1: where you don't leave, that becomes an isolated place and 108 00:06:14,196 --> 00:06:17,436 Speaker 1: you start dealing with social isolation in a way that 109 00:06:17,836 --> 00:06:22,036 Speaker 1: before the pandemic most people couldn't really grasp. So the 110 00:06:22,076 --> 00:06:24,876 Speaker 1: one thing that has come out of the pandemic that 111 00:06:25,036 --> 00:06:28,476 Speaker 1: was a positive for what able gamers does and what 112 00:06:28,516 --> 00:06:31,876 Speaker 1: people with disabilities have been trying to tell people, is 113 00:06:31,916 --> 00:06:34,476 Speaker 1: that now people understand what it's like to be trapped 114 00:06:34,516 --> 00:06:36,836 Speaker 1: in your house, to not be able to leave, to 115 00:06:36,956 --> 00:06:40,316 Speaker 1: have to stay in one place. Now, maybe you probably 116 00:06:40,396 --> 00:06:42,716 Speaker 1: during the pandemic didn't stay in one room and never 117 00:06:42,796 --> 00:06:45,116 Speaker 1: leave the couch. Although that is some people's dream, it's 118 00:06:45,156 --> 00:06:48,036 Speaker 1: not so great. Let me tell you. You know, it's 119 00:06:48,076 --> 00:06:50,916 Speaker 1: a place where do you now understand that being cut 120 00:06:50,956 --> 00:06:53,956 Speaker 1: off from your friends and your family was horrifying. It 121 00:06:54,036 --> 00:06:57,996 Speaker 1: was not fun in any way. People literally continually complained 122 00:06:58,036 --> 00:07:01,476 Speaker 1: about how lonely they were, and that is an epidemic 123 00:07:01,516 --> 00:07:04,516 Speaker 1: that we largely ignore. It's not about the games. The 124 00:07:04,636 --> 00:07:07,956 Speaker 1: games actually don't matter. Games are fun, games are very 125 00:07:08,036 --> 00:07:11,756 Speaker 1: very cool, but it's the connection to other humans that 126 00:07:11,796 --> 00:07:14,956 Speaker 1: we were really seeking. We're looking for a form of independence, 127 00:07:14,956 --> 00:07:16,916 Speaker 1: We're looking for a form of being able to reach 128 00:07:16,916 --> 00:07:18,996 Speaker 1: out and connect to our loved ones in a way 129 00:07:19,036 --> 00:07:25,356 Speaker 1: that we can facilitate a great experience and those shared experiences. 130 00:07:25,596 --> 00:07:27,436 Speaker 1: That's what this is really all about. That's what able 131 00:07:27,476 --> 00:07:29,916 Speaker 1: gamers is about. That's what being an advocate for people 132 00:07:29,916 --> 00:07:34,556 Speaker 1: with disabilities is all about. Building experiences. When did you 133 00:07:34,556 --> 00:07:36,796 Speaker 1: start making the connection that you were, like, really into 134 00:07:36,836 --> 00:07:39,236 Speaker 1: video games and that this was something you wanted to 135 00:07:39,236 --> 00:07:41,516 Speaker 1: play more of, even though playing them might be difficult. 136 00:07:42,276 --> 00:07:45,876 Speaker 1: You know, it never crossed my mind that playing them 137 00:07:45,956 --> 00:07:49,156 Speaker 1: would be difficult, because everything in my life is difficult. 138 00:07:49,196 --> 00:07:51,356 Speaker 1: Getting up in the morning is difficult. You know. I 139 00:07:51,436 --> 00:07:54,556 Speaker 1: always love the joke that I am just like you, Ronald. 140 00:07:54,596 --> 00:07:56,316 Speaker 1: I wake up in the morning and put my pants 141 00:07:56,356 --> 00:07:59,916 Speaker 1: on with a team of people, So you know, it's, 142 00:07:59,956 --> 00:08:02,636 Speaker 1: you know, no different. And you know, that's really where 143 00:08:02,636 --> 00:08:04,196 Speaker 1: it was for me with video games, where I just 144 00:08:04,236 --> 00:08:07,516 Speaker 1: wanted to play them. However it was that I had 145 00:08:07,556 --> 00:08:10,196 Speaker 1: to do that, whether that was with standard controller or 146 00:08:10,236 --> 00:08:12,316 Speaker 1: whether that was with some help. It was one of 147 00:08:12,356 --> 00:08:16,556 Speaker 1: those situations whereas video games become more accessible, they become 148 00:08:16,676 --> 00:08:20,356 Speaker 1: less accessible. So originally we have the you know, super 149 00:08:20,436 --> 00:08:23,956 Speaker 1: Nintendo controller, the Nintendo controller with two or three buttons, 150 00:08:23,956 --> 00:08:26,396 Speaker 1: and you can lay them down on a table and 151 00:08:26,436 --> 00:08:28,796 Speaker 1: I would play it like somebody with a piano just 152 00:08:28,916 --> 00:08:30,436 Speaker 1: right in front of me, with you know, using my 153 00:08:30,476 --> 00:08:34,076 Speaker 1: fingertips to move to manipulate the paddles. And then the 154 00:08:34,116 --> 00:08:37,076 Speaker 1: same thing with Sega. But then you started having buttons 155 00:08:37,076 --> 00:08:40,356 Speaker 1: behind the controller and under the controller, and God help 156 00:08:40,396 --> 00:08:42,636 Speaker 1: you if you tried to play the Nintendo sixty four 157 00:08:42,676 --> 00:08:44,516 Speaker 1: where you needed an alien arm to be able to 158 00:08:44,596 --> 00:08:48,076 Speaker 1: hold it, yeah, the middle. Nobody knows why that was there, nobody. 159 00:08:48,996 --> 00:08:52,476 Speaker 1: So they started coming able, these drastically different controllers, and 160 00:08:52,476 --> 00:08:54,716 Speaker 1: they were hard, they were hard to use. They didn't 161 00:08:54,756 --> 00:08:56,636 Speaker 1: go on a table. You had to hold them in 162 00:08:56,676 --> 00:08:59,476 Speaker 1: your hands or your lap, and so it became more 163 00:08:59,476 --> 00:09:03,396 Speaker 1: and more difficult to play consoles. And fortunately for me, 164 00:09:03,516 --> 00:09:07,276 Speaker 1: that's when the PC gaming really started taking off. And 165 00:09:07,956 --> 00:09:12,116 Speaker 1: I was actually going to school to be an assistant 166 00:09:12,156 --> 00:09:16,916 Speaker 1: engineer an AutoCAD class, and one of my buddies there 167 00:09:17,756 --> 00:09:20,676 Speaker 1: was working at an electronic store, so he was able 168 00:09:20,716 --> 00:09:23,116 Speaker 1: to get a hold of like used parts and stuff 169 00:09:23,116 --> 00:09:26,476 Speaker 1: like that. So we callbled together an older used PC 170 00:09:27,396 --> 00:09:30,996 Speaker 1: and I was able to get into online games, and 171 00:09:31,036 --> 00:09:32,996 Speaker 1: that that was sort of the beginning for me. Was 172 00:09:33,316 --> 00:09:36,596 Speaker 1: he started talking about this this universe where you know, 173 00:09:36,676 --> 00:09:39,636 Speaker 1: he was in class, but there was this guild that 174 00:09:39,676 --> 00:09:42,396 Speaker 1: he was running and they were busy farming materials and 175 00:09:42,516 --> 00:09:45,876 Speaker 1: working on you know, this this apparatus and this world 176 00:09:45,916 --> 00:09:50,276 Speaker 1: of Ultima Online was constantly running. And Ultima is a 177 00:09:50,316 --> 00:09:54,756 Speaker 1: massive multiplayer online role playing game. Otherwise noticed that MMOARPG. 178 00:09:55,356 --> 00:09:57,436 Speaker 1: People love these games. They can just go on and 179 00:09:57,516 --> 00:10:00,836 Speaker 1: on and there's expansions and new people to meet, new 180 00:10:00,836 --> 00:10:03,436 Speaker 1: things to play all the time. But you just live 181 00:10:03,476 --> 00:10:07,116 Speaker 1: in this online world. And it was so fascinating to 182 00:10:07,156 --> 00:10:11,636 Speaker 1: me that a digital virtual existence could be out there 183 00:10:12,076 --> 00:10:14,756 Speaker 1: existing at the same time as real life, and you 184 00:10:14,756 --> 00:10:17,436 Speaker 1: could be earning money or working or doing whatever you 185 00:10:17,476 --> 00:10:20,756 Speaker 1: wanted to in this virtual world. And so I really 186 00:10:20,836 --> 00:10:22,436 Speaker 1: kind of got to the point where I just threw 187 00:10:22,556 --> 00:10:26,276 Speaker 1: myself into it and realized that well, if my physical 188 00:10:26,356 --> 00:10:28,636 Speaker 1: body wasn't going to keep up with my mind, then 189 00:10:28,756 --> 00:10:31,556 Speaker 1: maybe my virtual self could. So in terms of what 190 00:10:31,596 --> 00:10:34,156 Speaker 1: you're doing at able gamers, how do you actually improve 191 00:10:34,236 --> 00:10:38,716 Speaker 1: accessibility between video games and a disabled community. Yeah, you know, 192 00:10:38,796 --> 00:10:42,236 Speaker 1: Able Gamers does accessibility in a lot of ways. One 193 00:10:42,316 --> 00:10:46,156 Speaker 1: of our pillars, as we call them, of our organization 194 00:10:46,436 --> 00:10:52,356 Speaker 1: is engineering where we literally create controllers, sometimes from scratch 195 00:10:52,476 --> 00:10:55,996 Speaker 1: at a three D printing, out of household objects, out 196 00:10:56,036 --> 00:10:59,316 Speaker 1: of controllers that already exist that need modified slightly, and 197 00:10:59,436 --> 00:11:02,796 Speaker 1: give them for free through our peer counseling, which is 198 00:11:02,836 --> 00:11:06,596 Speaker 1: another pillar, to people who have difficulty playing games with 199 00:11:06,676 --> 00:11:11,196 Speaker 1: a standard controller. So it's not a a matter of able Gamers, 200 00:11:11,956 --> 00:11:14,116 Speaker 1: you know, being a fast food restaurant where a person 201 00:11:14,116 --> 00:11:16,356 Speaker 1: with disabilities can pull up and be like, yes, I 202 00:11:16,396 --> 00:11:19,356 Speaker 1: will take a number five with the fault, it's like no. 203 00:11:19,676 --> 00:11:22,836 Speaker 1: You go into you know, an actual area and we 204 00:11:22,916 --> 00:11:25,396 Speaker 1: consult with you for up to eight to sixteen hours, 205 00:11:25,476 --> 00:11:27,916 Speaker 1: and we look into your life. What are your challenges, 206 00:11:27,916 --> 00:11:30,596 Speaker 1: what are your desires? How can we use technology the 207 00:11:30,596 --> 00:11:34,436 Speaker 1: bridge the gap between the two and fulfill your life 208 00:11:34,596 --> 00:11:38,356 Speaker 1: by introducing YouTube and environment where people can hang out 209 00:11:38,396 --> 00:11:40,796 Speaker 1: with you virtually and you can be with friends and 210 00:11:40,916 --> 00:11:44,556 Speaker 1: family just like you want to be using these specially 211 00:11:44,556 --> 00:11:47,316 Speaker 1: made controllers. For example, of the quad stick is a 212 00:11:47,356 --> 00:11:50,436 Speaker 1: great adaptation that you can play an entire Xbox with 213 00:11:50,516 --> 00:11:52,316 Speaker 1: just your mouth. You don't need your hands, you don't 214 00:11:52,356 --> 00:11:54,636 Speaker 1: need your feat You can just use your jaw to 215 00:11:54,756 --> 00:11:57,556 Speaker 1: move the controller around. And there are people out there 216 00:11:57,636 --> 00:12:00,276 Speaker 1: that could absolutely beat you and me up in Street 217 00:12:00,316 --> 00:12:03,876 Speaker 1: Fighter or anything like that. They work great, They're just 218 00:12:04,236 --> 00:12:07,676 Speaker 1: massively up there on the learning curve. You have to 219 00:12:07,716 --> 00:12:09,916 Speaker 1: really really want to play games with just your mouth. 220 00:12:10,796 --> 00:12:12,236 Speaker 1: So it sounds like you guys do a lot on 221 00:12:12,276 --> 00:12:15,996 Speaker 1: the back end of adapting video games after market, after 222 00:12:16,076 --> 00:12:20,036 Speaker 1: things already made to allow disabled folks to play. What 223 00:12:20,116 --> 00:12:23,676 Speaker 1: type of advocacy are you doing to get video game 224 00:12:23,756 --> 00:12:28,836 Speaker 1: companies to make their hardware software more accessible. I can 225 00:12:28,876 --> 00:12:30,876 Speaker 1: tell you that there is not a day that goes 226 00:12:30,916 --> 00:12:34,436 Speaker 1: by that someone in the organization is not contacted by 227 00:12:34,956 --> 00:12:38,356 Speaker 1: a Triple A developer asking how they develop a new 228 00:12:38,876 --> 00:12:41,836 Speaker 1: X title for X system in a more accessible way. 229 00:12:42,156 --> 00:12:45,276 Speaker 1: We have so many people now that reach out to 230 00:12:45,356 --> 00:12:48,236 Speaker 1: us because the industry has woken up and they've realized 231 00:12:48,356 --> 00:12:51,996 Speaker 1: that disabled people are a viable market. You know, you 232 00:12:51,996 --> 00:12:54,716 Speaker 1: don't have to change your entire video games to support 233 00:12:54,756 --> 00:12:57,276 Speaker 1: people with disabilities. You just have to allow options that 234 00:12:57,316 --> 00:12:59,196 Speaker 1: allow people to play the game that you would design. 235 00:12:59,516 --> 00:13:01,876 Speaker 1: We've been doing this for sixteen years now. The first 236 00:13:01,876 --> 00:13:04,596 Speaker 1: ten years was just convincing the industry that people of 237 00:13:04,676 --> 00:13:07,116 Speaker 1: disabilities were out there, they wanted to play games, they 238 00:13:07,156 --> 00:13:10,516 Speaker 1: wanted to continue to be Are these worlds, these wonderful 239 00:13:10,636 --> 00:13:13,316 Speaker 1: virtual worlds that we all love? Right in the last 240 00:13:13,356 --> 00:13:16,076 Speaker 1: four or five years is where you've seen enable gamers pivot. 241 00:13:16,276 --> 00:13:19,676 Speaker 1: And now instead of convincing people that they should care, 242 00:13:19,916 --> 00:13:23,116 Speaker 1: we're convincing them that these kind of things are worth 243 00:13:23,156 --> 00:13:26,436 Speaker 1: putting a few dollars behind. Whether that's a person donating 244 00:13:26,476 --> 00:13:28,996 Speaker 1: to the organization to be able to fund the controllers 245 00:13:28,996 --> 00:13:31,476 Speaker 1: that need to be given out, or it's from a 246 00:13:31,556 --> 00:13:37,116 Speaker 1: major place that has developers that are developing games. And 247 00:13:37,156 --> 00:13:41,956 Speaker 1: so we developed an entire course at Accessible dot Games. 248 00:13:42,196 --> 00:13:44,916 Speaker 1: Accessible dot Games is where you can go see right 249 00:13:44,956 --> 00:13:49,756 Speaker 1: now our program called Accessible Player Experiences, and it's all 250 00:13:49,836 --> 00:13:54,716 Speaker 1: about input patterns, it's all about development where you can 251 00:13:54,756 --> 00:13:57,396 Speaker 1: go and you can look and say, all right, well, 252 00:13:57,596 --> 00:14:02,956 Speaker 1: if you only have the ability to have one functioning arm, 253 00:14:03,196 --> 00:14:06,556 Speaker 1: what are some of the things that would be pertinent 254 00:14:06,636 --> 00:14:09,876 Speaker 1: to that particurely disability? What are some of the things 255 00:14:09,916 --> 00:14:13,116 Speaker 1: that like undo redo, Like what should I design in 256 00:14:13,156 --> 00:14:15,476 Speaker 1: my game so that if someone you know has a 257 00:14:15,476 --> 00:14:18,076 Speaker 1: cognitive disability, or they have a tremor where they click 258 00:14:18,116 --> 00:14:20,436 Speaker 1: the wrong button. What's the way that I can make 259 00:14:20,476 --> 00:14:22,836 Speaker 1: that easier for them? Oh, I just allow them to 260 00:14:22,916 --> 00:14:25,596 Speaker 1: undo what they just did and do it again. Easy done. 261 00:14:25,756 --> 00:14:28,236 Speaker 1: And so instead of trying to look at this as 262 00:14:28,316 --> 00:14:32,036 Speaker 1: a checklist of items like you must have closed capturing, 263 00:14:32,076 --> 00:14:33,996 Speaker 1: you must have the ability to push the A button 264 00:14:34,076 --> 00:14:36,676 Speaker 1: twice like, it's not up to us. We're not here 265 00:14:36,676 --> 00:14:38,396 Speaker 1: to tell you how to develop a game. Are All 266 00:14:38,476 --> 00:14:40,996 Speaker 1: we're here to do is change your mindset to be 267 00:14:41,076 --> 00:14:44,276 Speaker 1: accessible so that you can start looking at development in 268 00:14:44,316 --> 00:14:48,636 Speaker 1: a way that you understand that people aren't necessarily going 269 00:14:48,676 --> 00:14:51,636 Speaker 1: to play the way that we often thought they did. 270 00:14:51,796 --> 00:14:54,196 Speaker 1: Maybe they're going to use special controllers, maybe they're going 271 00:14:54,236 --> 00:14:56,996 Speaker 1: to have limited staminam, maybe they have pain levels they 272 00:14:56,996 --> 00:14:59,516 Speaker 1: have to deal with. There are more people out there 273 00:14:59,516 --> 00:15:01,596 Speaker 1: that you need to be thinking about when you develop, 274 00:15:02,036 --> 00:15:09,276 Speaker 1: rather than just your average joe able bodied person. So 275 00:15:09,356 --> 00:15:13,316 Speaker 1: people with disabilities are already isolated from the physical world. 276 00:15:13,636 --> 00:15:16,756 Speaker 1: Do you think that connecting them with video games runs 277 00:15:16,756 --> 00:15:20,236 Speaker 1: the risk of further isolating them. That's a great question, right, 278 00:15:20,276 --> 00:15:22,876 Speaker 1: So if you have a situation, did your life where 279 00:15:23,116 --> 00:15:25,356 Speaker 1: you're going to be stuck inside and you're going to 280 00:15:25,436 --> 00:15:29,716 Speaker 1: be watching TV. If you're not playing a video game 281 00:15:29,716 --> 00:15:31,996 Speaker 1: with friends, then why wouldn't I want to give you 282 00:15:32,036 --> 00:15:35,836 Speaker 1: the avenue to have the social interaction the way that 283 00:15:35,996 --> 00:15:38,756 Speaker 1: you wish it to be. You know, are there people 284 00:15:38,796 --> 00:15:43,836 Speaker 1: out there who don't follow the everything in moderation rule 285 00:15:43,876 --> 00:15:46,956 Speaker 1: of life? Probably? There probably are people who have gotten 286 00:15:46,996 --> 00:15:49,916 Speaker 1: an adaptive controller from Xbox and they blew off going 287 00:15:49,956 --> 00:15:52,356 Speaker 1: to somebody's wedding and doing a toast because they would 288 00:15:52,356 --> 00:15:55,756 Speaker 1: have rather played the latest, you know, Super Mario Sonic game. 289 00:15:56,116 --> 00:15:59,076 Speaker 1: I can't tell you whether or not that's happened. What 290 00:15:59,236 --> 00:16:01,796 Speaker 1: I can tell you is that there are more people 291 00:16:02,036 --> 00:16:04,956 Speaker 1: who would have been bored out of their minds had 292 00:16:04,996 --> 00:16:08,196 Speaker 1: they not had the ability to connect with these virtual 293 00:16:08,236 --> 00:16:12,036 Speaker 1: worlds than people who misuse the technology and have gotten 294 00:16:12,036 --> 00:16:15,796 Speaker 1: addicted to, you know, shooting pinball with their friends. What's 295 00:16:15,836 --> 00:16:19,036 Speaker 1: what's your favorite game that you're playing right now? My 296 00:16:19,116 --> 00:16:22,676 Speaker 1: favorite game right now is probably Rocket League. Yes, it's 297 00:16:22,716 --> 00:16:25,436 Speaker 1: really good. Yes? Yes, okay, you are you on a 298 00:16:25,516 --> 00:16:28,796 Speaker 1: PS four? I am on I'm on PC. Okay, so 299 00:16:29,036 --> 00:16:32,316 Speaker 1: we'll have to Yeah, we have to exchange my game 300 00:16:32,356 --> 00:16:34,236 Speaker 1: attack is, Oh, it's big ron, so you have to 301 00:16:34,236 --> 00:16:37,116 Speaker 1: exchange gamer. But I I'm rusty, I haven't played in 302 00:16:37,156 --> 00:16:39,636 Speaker 1: a while, and I started playing Fortnite, uh and during 303 00:16:39,636 --> 00:16:42,676 Speaker 1: the pandemic. And but Mike, I mean, there's something there's 304 00:16:42,676 --> 00:16:48,756 Speaker 1: something humiliating about being devastated by like an eleven year old. Yeah, 305 00:16:48,796 --> 00:16:51,316 Speaker 1: but you were killed by a bunny rabbit who was 306 00:16:51,356 --> 00:16:54,956 Speaker 1: surfing on a rocket who was doing cheering, chirping noises 307 00:16:54,956 --> 00:16:57,036 Speaker 1: that managed to home in on you from a thousand 308 00:16:57,076 --> 00:17:00,556 Speaker 1: feet away. There, you can't be mad about that. Likes 309 00:17:00,876 --> 00:17:04,276 Speaker 1: it's not serious, and you know, that's what I really 310 00:17:04,276 --> 00:17:06,436 Speaker 1: like about those kind of games. It's just that it's 311 00:17:06,436 --> 00:17:08,996 Speaker 1: a competitive nature. And sure, you know, I'm proud of 312 00:17:08,996 --> 00:17:11,156 Speaker 1: the fact that I only play with a mouse and 313 00:17:11,236 --> 00:17:13,196 Speaker 1: a tracker on my head. I don't use a keyboard, 314 00:17:13,276 --> 00:17:15,756 Speaker 1: I don't use the controller, and I'm you know, freaking 315 00:17:15,796 --> 00:17:18,436 Speaker 1: diamond in Rocket League. So I'm proud that I was 316 00:17:18,436 --> 00:17:21,916 Speaker 1: going to ask because I'm like silver three. I want 317 00:17:21,916 --> 00:17:24,516 Speaker 1: to say, so we're so you're obt of the game 318 00:17:24,636 --> 00:17:26,236 Speaker 1: is just like soccer. You're just trying to score the 319 00:17:26,236 --> 00:17:30,556 Speaker 1: ball into the other team's goal and there's a hierarchy system, Steve, 320 00:17:30,596 --> 00:17:33,916 Speaker 1: you want to explain the hierarchy system. Yeah, so the hierarchy. 321 00:17:33,956 --> 00:17:35,916 Speaker 1: The way the game works is like every video game 322 00:17:35,956 --> 00:17:38,436 Speaker 1: has a ranking system where you start at bronze and 323 00:17:38,476 --> 00:17:41,196 Speaker 1: then you progress to silver and then gold and Platinum 324 00:17:41,196 --> 00:17:44,596 Speaker 1: and then Diamond and then Champion, and what the ranks 325 00:17:44,636 --> 00:17:46,756 Speaker 1: are changes based on the game, but it's always the 326 00:17:46,876 --> 00:17:50,356 Speaker 1: same five rank system, which basically allows the game to 327 00:17:50,476 --> 00:17:53,116 Speaker 1: put you up against people a similar skill level so 328 00:17:53,156 --> 00:17:55,796 Speaker 1: that people who are lower skill level don't get destroyed 329 00:17:55,796 --> 00:17:58,316 Speaker 1: by the higher skill levels and feel bad about themselves, 330 00:17:58,436 --> 00:18:00,436 Speaker 1: and then the people at the top don't get bored 331 00:18:00,476 --> 00:18:03,636 Speaker 1: because they don't have a competition exactly. You know what's 332 00:18:03,676 --> 00:18:06,476 Speaker 1: funny is, as I spent so many years getting destroyed 333 00:18:06,796 --> 00:18:08,956 Speaker 1: in every other game online saying, you know what, I 334 00:18:09,156 --> 00:18:11,876 Speaker 1: still want to play online anymore until Rocket League comes along. 335 00:18:11,876 --> 00:18:13,396 Speaker 1: It's like, come on, Ronald, You'll play with a bunch 336 00:18:13,396 --> 00:18:15,676 Speaker 1: of other people who are all as terrible as you are, 337 00:18:15,876 --> 00:18:18,276 Speaker 1: and you'll have fun. It'll be really competitive because you'll 338 00:18:18,276 --> 00:18:20,476 Speaker 1: all like you'll all like you'll all be terrible in 339 00:18:20,516 --> 00:18:27,356 Speaker 1: the same way together while like learning the game. Absolutely, Steve, clearly, 340 00:18:27,396 --> 00:18:29,596 Speaker 1: I love video games. You love video games, and I'm 341 00:18:29,596 --> 00:18:31,676 Speaker 1: guessing a lot of our listeners do too. What are 342 00:18:31,716 --> 00:18:33,596 Speaker 1: some things they could do to help make gaming more 343 00:18:33,596 --> 00:18:35,756 Speaker 1: accessible for everyone? Of course, I'm going to tell you 344 00:18:35,796 --> 00:18:38,476 Speaker 1: that we need donations. You can go to able gamers 345 00:18:38,516 --> 00:18:40,756 Speaker 1: dot org. You can check us out on any of 346 00:18:40,756 --> 00:18:44,276 Speaker 1: the social media's able gamers. So if you have a dollar, 347 00:18:44,436 --> 00:18:47,396 Speaker 1: five dollars, twenty thousand dollars, it doesn't matter if you 348 00:18:47,556 --> 00:18:50,636 Speaker 1: have that kind of cash to give out that it helps. 349 00:18:50,996 --> 00:18:53,716 Speaker 1: So the average controller is three hundred and fifty dollars 350 00:18:53,756 --> 00:18:56,876 Speaker 1: to make the average session for someone to sit with 351 00:18:56,956 --> 00:18:59,596 Speaker 1: us and be fully funded to go through peer counseling 352 00:18:59,676 --> 00:19:02,756 Speaker 1: is about eight hundred and fifty dollars that goes through 353 00:19:03,236 --> 00:19:07,916 Speaker 1: you know, up much higher if someone has a profound disability, 354 00:19:07,996 --> 00:19:10,876 Speaker 1: that takes you know, more time getting to know them 355 00:19:11,236 --> 00:19:13,596 Speaker 1: and their situation and how to help them on a 356 00:19:13,716 --> 00:19:17,916 Speaker 1: very personal level. But you know, that's that's where essentially 357 00:19:17,956 --> 00:19:22,236 Speaker 1: your donations go. So if you have the ability to, 358 00:19:22,396 --> 00:19:25,356 Speaker 1: we always say please consider a donation. If you are 359 00:19:25,396 --> 00:19:28,076 Speaker 1: not in a place where financially that makes sense, you 360 00:19:28,116 --> 00:19:31,396 Speaker 1: can always just talk about able gamers and people with disabilities. 361 00:19:31,476 --> 00:19:34,836 Speaker 1: Now that sounds extremely generic. Here's the thing about that 362 00:19:35,236 --> 00:19:38,756 Speaker 1: game companies only care about what is being talked about. 363 00:19:38,876 --> 00:19:42,796 Speaker 1: So if people aren't talking about how accessibility options are important, 364 00:19:42,916 --> 00:19:45,676 Speaker 1: about how they want to support people with disabilities, about 365 00:19:45,676 --> 00:19:48,316 Speaker 1: how people with disabilities matter in games, and they want 366 00:19:48,356 --> 00:19:51,396 Speaker 1: to see that representation for people that don't look like them, 367 00:19:51,716 --> 00:19:55,636 Speaker 1: then the support goes away. The only reason that companies 368 00:19:56,356 --> 00:20:00,316 Speaker 1: support initiatives for people that are not quote unquote in 369 00:20:00,356 --> 00:20:03,996 Speaker 1: the mainstream audience is by them figuring out that, oh, 370 00:20:04,076 --> 00:20:06,156 Speaker 1: they are in the mainstream audience and they do matter, 371 00:20:06,276 --> 00:20:08,316 Speaker 1: and we can make money off of them. And that's 372 00:20:08,316 --> 00:20:11,236 Speaker 1: how we get that done. Is about you going out 373 00:20:11,276 --> 00:20:14,436 Speaker 1: to Twitter, you going out to Instagram talking about this 374 00:20:14,516 --> 00:20:18,076 Speaker 1: kind of thing, tweeting at your favorite companies, facebooking. You know, 375 00:20:18,476 --> 00:20:20,516 Speaker 1: that's how you can support able game was the best. 376 00:20:20,956 --> 00:20:23,756 Speaker 1: And if you're a developer out there listening, go to 377 00:20:24,036 --> 00:20:27,276 Speaker 1: Accessible dot Games. It's a free thing. You can go 378 00:20:27,356 --> 00:20:31,156 Speaker 1: check out all the material for free. Right now. There 379 00:20:31,316 --> 00:20:35,356 Speaker 1: is a certified course that you can take for a 380 00:20:35,396 --> 00:20:38,436 Speaker 1: couple hundred dollars to be certified to be able to 381 00:20:38,436 --> 00:20:41,676 Speaker 1: be an accessible developer. But if that's not within the 382 00:20:41,716 --> 00:20:44,356 Speaker 1: budget of your studio. You can always look at the 383 00:20:44,436 --> 00:20:47,436 Speaker 1: material for free online and check it out and incorporate 384 00:20:47,476 --> 00:20:50,516 Speaker 1: that into your next game. Are there any movies or 385 00:20:50,556 --> 00:20:53,716 Speaker 1: books to learn more about accessibility generally? There is a 386 00:20:53,716 --> 00:20:57,076 Speaker 1: great documentary called crypt Camp. It's on Netflix right now, 387 00:20:57,236 --> 00:21:00,116 Speaker 1: you can check it out. It goes through the entirety 388 00:21:00,156 --> 00:21:02,236 Speaker 1: of like what it's like to be a disabled person 389 00:21:02,396 --> 00:21:06,876 Speaker 1: and what it is that people maybe not seeing in 390 00:21:06,916 --> 00:21:09,596 Speaker 1: their everyday lives the people disabilities have to go through. 391 00:21:09,996 --> 00:21:13,916 Speaker 1: There's also a great movie that was released years ago. 392 00:21:14,596 --> 00:21:17,956 Speaker 1: It was all about the ada the creation of it, 393 00:21:18,036 --> 00:21:22,996 Speaker 1: called The Sound of Thought, and it's really about how 394 00:21:23,076 --> 00:21:25,756 Speaker 1: these two guys, one who was disabled, one who was not, 395 00:21:26,236 --> 00:21:30,316 Speaker 1: wanted the ability to go out into public without being 396 00:21:30,356 --> 00:21:34,316 Speaker 1: harassed for being disabled, and how businesses really weren't taking 397 00:21:34,356 --> 00:21:38,876 Speaker 1: the disability community seriously. It's very heartwrenching to me to 398 00:21:38,996 --> 00:21:43,316 Speaker 1: remember and to remind people that if you are thirty 399 00:21:43,316 --> 00:21:47,076 Speaker 1: five years old or older within your lifetime, it was 400 00:21:47,196 --> 00:21:51,316 Speaker 1: legal to discriminate against people at disabilities. If I had 401 00:21:51,356 --> 00:21:53,596 Speaker 1: gone into a McDonald's when I was one years old, 402 00:21:53,636 --> 00:21:55,756 Speaker 1: they could have kicked me out for using a wheelchair 403 00:21:55,756 --> 00:21:58,516 Speaker 1: because I was quote upsetting the other guests, and that's 404 00:21:58,556 --> 00:22:01,156 Speaker 1: something that a lot of people tend to forget because 405 00:22:01,156 --> 00:22:03,236 Speaker 1: we have very short memories when it comes to things 406 00:22:03,236 --> 00:22:06,036 Speaker 1: like this. So remember that. You know, it wasn't that 407 00:22:06,116 --> 00:22:09,116 Speaker 1: long ago that we said that no disabled people are important, 408 00:22:09,356 --> 00:22:13,036 Speaker 1: and you know, having those rights was important for that 409 00:22:13,196 --> 00:22:16,676 Speaker 1: community and it still is today. Thank you so much 410 00:22:16,716 --> 00:22:22,516 Speaker 1: for being with us today, Steve. Thank you. Steven Spond 411 00:22:22,676 --> 00:22:26,716 Speaker 1: is the chief Operations officer of Abel Gamers Solvable. Senior 412 00:22:26,716 --> 00:22:31,196 Speaker 1: producer is Jocelyn Frank, Research by David Jah, booking by 413 00:22:31,236 --> 00:22:34,876 Speaker 1: Lisa Dunn. Our managing producer is Sasha Matthias, and our 414 00:22:34,876 --> 00:22:38,836 Speaker 1: executive producer is Mia LaBelle. Solvable is a production of 415 00:22:38,836 --> 00:22:43,036 Speaker 1: Pushkin Industries. If you like the show, please remember to share, rate, 416 00:22:43,076 --> 00:22:45,436 Speaker 1: and review. It helps us find our way to the 417 00:22:45,476 --> 00:22:49,476 Speaker 1: ears of new listeners. You can find Pushkin Podcasts wherever 418 00:22:49,516 --> 00:22:54,036 Speaker 1: you listen, including on the iHeartRadio app and Apple Podcasts. 419 00:22:54,956 --> 00:22:57,556 Speaker 1: I'm Ronald Young Jr. Thanks for listening.