1 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom Never told you. From how Stuff 2 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline. And after we did an episode 4 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 1: not too long ago about elective cesarians, which are on 5 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: the rise in the United States, a lot of moms 6 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: in particular wrote in asking, hey, thanks for covering this. 7 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 1: Why don't you look at the opposite side of the 8 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: birthing conversation and look more at natural birth? Yeah, And 9 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: I was reading all these suggestions and everybody had a 10 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 1: lot of great input, and I honestly I was like, 11 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:46,839 Speaker 1: natural birth, that's just going without meds, right, I mean, 12 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: that's all there is to it. It's just like not 13 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 1: having a C section as natural birth. Oh No, I 14 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: was definitely wrong. I definitely have the wrong impression. There's 15 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: so much more to natural birth than just not relying 16 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: on pain medications. I mean, it's not relying on interventions 17 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 1: in general, really. But it also it's pretty multifaceted because 18 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 1: you can have a natural birth in a hospital setting, 19 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:13,399 Speaker 1: like in a birthing center maybe, but natural birth also 20 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 1: comprises home birth, water birth, birthing at Einamey Gascon's farm, 21 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:22,119 Speaker 1: which we'll get into in a little while, and as 22 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:26,400 Speaker 1: we mentioned in the podcast on c sections, just to 23 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:28,119 Speaker 1: go ahead and get it out of the way. As 24 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: as most regular listeners know, you know, we're gonna be 25 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: talking about natural birth, not as a form of advocacy 26 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 1: saying that this is the way that you should have 27 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: your children. A because if Caroline and I, too childless women, 28 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: were to tell you how to have babies, that would 29 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:46,479 Speaker 1: be just crazy. And also because that's on the point, 30 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: we just want to educate you, because we learned a 31 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: lot of stuff and now we want to pass it 32 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: along to listeners. So let's go ahead and get into stuff. 33 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 1: Because like you said, Caroline, um, you know your concept 34 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 1: of natural was us limited to the presence or absence 35 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: i should say, of medications. But really, just how natural 36 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 1: are we talking when we're talking about natural birth? Well, 37 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:12,959 Speaker 1: when we're talking about natural birth. According to Christine Isaacs, 38 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:15,920 Speaker 1: the director of the General of Stetrics and Gynecology Division 39 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 1: at a Virginia Commonwealth University Medical Center and director of 40 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: Midwiff Reservices for the VCU Health System, she said, in general, uh, 41 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: natural birth implies a non medicated birth where you're letting 42 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 1: the natural process of labor and birth take place without 43 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 1: any interventions, and that's a big part of natural birth, 44 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: of letting the natural process of labor go forward. So 45 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 1: you're not inducing labor. You know, your doctor is not 46 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 1: breaking your water for you. And even when we'll get 47 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: into like visualization stuff in a little while, but like 48 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: even maybe as you're lying in bed about to give birth, 49 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: you're going into labor, you're actually envisioning the process to 50 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: help it go along. And so interventions that are not 51 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: part of natural birth include things like continuous fetal monitoring 52 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: and aistiotomy's which is the worst thing ever, according to 53 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: this child List woman who was reading stuff about natural birth, 54 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 1: and every time I read what an epistiotomy was, I 55 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: just shifted uncomfortably in my seat. Yes see, the episteotomy 56 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 1: is the procedure in which the doctor will make an 57 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: incision from the vaginal opening to the perennium to make 58 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 1: more room for the baby and that way, because sometimes 59 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 1: that it will it will tear on its own if 60 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 1: you are having a vaginal birth, but an epistiotomy goes 61 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: ahead and gets that over with and maybe a cleaner way. 62 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: We might have to take a quick break from this podcast, 63 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 1: Caroline can go put my hubben drough my leg. Yes, um, 64 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: And of course one of the major interventions, like we've 65 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 1: already mentioned a couple of times now, no epidurals, no 66 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:55,839 Speaker 1: pain medications, a lot of times the mother will rely 67 00:03:56,000 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: on relaxation techniques. So briefly, let's go over the history 68 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 1: of natural birth. I mean, we could say the history 69 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 1: of natural birth goes back to the you know, the 70 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 1: very first time a female exited a baby out of 71 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: the womb, because you know, but let's talk about it 72 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: more more modern times. The quote unquote father of natural 73 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: childbirth British doctor Grantly dick Read, who published a book 74 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: Natural Childbirth in ninety three, And this was representative of 75 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: a change because by this time childbirth had become more medicalized, 76 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: with it leaving the home and becoming something where women 77 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: go to the doctor in the hospital to deliver their baby, right, 78 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 1: And dick Read was really concerned with the increasing use 79 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: of anesthesia and obstetric interventions, as well as the neglect 80 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 1: of a woman's psyche during the process. You know, he 81 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:54,160 Speaker 1: said that women require more attention and you should have 82 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: more of a an intimate kind of natural setting for 83 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 1: a birth. And he said, as far as an nature goes, 84 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 1: woman is primarily adapted for the perfection of womanhood, which 85 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: is according to the law of nature reproduction. So in 86 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: other words, let woman do what woman will. Now, there 87 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 1: have been some who have said that doctor dick Read 88 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: was also a eugenicist who wanted to encourage more white women, 89 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: in particular to have more children, because at this point 90 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:28,040 Speaker 1: the birth rate was starting to drop a little bit 91 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: for white women, some of whom might have not been 92 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:35,479 Speaker 1: too pumped about the prospect of um the pain involved 93 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: with having a baby um. But that was we couldn't 94 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 1: find a direct source on that. It was something mentioned, 95 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 1: I believe in a New York Times magazine piece about 96 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 1: natural birth. We did want to bring that up because 97 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 1: that would be an important point to not not bring 98 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:54,280 Speaker 1: up about dick Read. Yeah. Well, he he based a 99 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 1: lot of his theories about the birth process on early 100 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 1: studies he did in his medical career, but even really 101 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,479 Speaker 1: before that, when he was in World War One and 102 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:06,039 Speaker 1: he was speaking with a man from India and officer 103 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 1: and like a subordinate officer from India about yoga and meditation, 104 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: and so he takes that knowledge about relaxation techniques and meditation, 105 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:18,279 Speaker 1: and here he went on to read more books about 106 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: relaxation techniques and so that really shaped his idea of look, 107 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: you don't need all of this intervention, all of this interference. 108 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:28,720 Speaker 1: In fact, he said, interference is still one of the 109 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: greatest dangers with which both mother and child have to contend. 110 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:34,840 Speaker 1: So he thought it was more dangerous to have all 111 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 1: of these medical interventions in the hospital as opposed to 112 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: giving quote unquote natural childbirth. And as a result, he 113 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: went on to pioneer the use of hypnosis during labor, 114 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,280 Speaker 1: which is one of the relaxation techniques that we will 115 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:52,279 Speaker 1: talk about later on in the podcast. So that's going 116 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:56,279 Speaker 1: on though in the nineteen thirties, early nineteen forties. Then 117 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 1: when we come to the nineteen sixties and early seventies, 118 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 1: we have a may Auger tied shifting and this is 119 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: coming from Sharon Levine, who is an m d at 120 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: the Northern California Permanent Day Medical Group. From talked about 121 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: how there was a wholesale consumer revolt against highly structured, 122 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 1: hospital centered pre natal care. And yes, you know this 123 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: is the nineteen sixties and seventies, So it is coupled 124 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: with more of the hippie movement at the time right 125 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: and writing that wave of natural childbirth in the nineteen 126 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: sixties and early nineteen seventies was i'ame Gascon, who, if 127 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: you consider Dick Read to be the father of natural childbirth, 128 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: Ia Ma Gaskin is pretty much the mother of it. Uh. 129 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: In the nineteen seventies, she publishes her book Spiritual Midwhiffery, 130 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: which framed natural childbirth as a euphoric experience an unparalleled 131 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: opportunity for transcendence and communion. She really crusaded during her 132 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 1: career for access to and legalization of midwife assisted home 133 00:07:56,480 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 1: birth because she and the other midwives at her farm 134 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: and tennessee this big property where a lot of women 135 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: still go to uh pursue a natural birth without any interventions. 136 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: They discovered that birth could be that euphoric experience and 137 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: a way to get in touch with your female power, 138 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: like I am a woman, I'm going to give birth. 139 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: I'm going to do this. Yeah. A lot of the 140 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 1: testimonials that you'll hear about women who have natural birth, 141 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: and obviously natural birth proponents like name Gascon will bring 142 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:33,559 Speaker 1: up this issue of female power, female empowerment, the experience 143 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 1: of having your body go through something so life giving 144 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: and painful at the same time, they say that you 145 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: can't experience anything more empowering. Not to keep staying empowering 146 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 1: over and over again. Yeah, I would imagine. I mean, 147 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: I feel good, you know, when I take out the trash, 148 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 1: I'm like, look at what I did. I did that, 149 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:58,679 Speaker 1: I emptied the trash and I put a new bag 150 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: in the trash can So like, imagine what it's like 151 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:06,200 Speaker 1: if you give birth to something without any sort of 152 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:09,200 Speaker 1: pain fills. I mean, I'm such a whoss I don't, Caroline. 153 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 1: I also appreciate the fact that you just compare childbirth 154 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: taking out the track. Please don't write many angry letters. Okay, 155 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 1: So let's look at what's going on today. So in 156 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,559 Speaker 1: according to the National Center for Health Stats, home births 157 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: were at their highest levels since which is pretty impressive 158 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: between two thousand four and two thousand eight, giving birth 159 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:37,079 Speaker 1: at home increas mainly do they say to a increase 160 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 1: in home birth among white women, but there's a lot 161 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: there's other aspects of this increase as well. Yeah, it 162 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: was no surprise getting all of those requests for a 163 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: natural birth episode. Once you see statistics like this, showing 164 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: how it's become a lot more popular option because of 165 00:09:55,280 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: things like desiring low intervention birth. Because my occasions can 166 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 1: cause blood pressure to drop, it can either slow down 167 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 1: or speed up labor, and speed up in not a 168 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 1: good way. It can induce nausea, and they can especially 169 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 1: give these expectants soon to be moms feelings that they 170 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 1: are out of control of the birthing process, which again, 171 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: those kind of anecdotes are kind of frightening if you know, 172 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: to hear about women who will go in thinking that 173 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 1: they're going to have their baby one way, and then 174 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:31,320 Speaker 1: it happens another way and they're drugged up and they 175 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 1: don't remember it right. And part of that feeling out 176 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 1: of control is the fact that many US hospitals induced 177 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: labor after one to two weeks post do dates instead 178 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 1: of just letting letting things happen when they will, and 179 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: then they'll end up restricting the amount of time a 180 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 1: woman can be in labor. Before transitioning to surgery, I 181 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: worked with a woman who she's very tiny. She's she's 182 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 1: very tiny. Tinny lady, you're holding up your index thing 183 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 1: because she's she's as big as my index finger. I 184 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: carry her around in my pocket. Um, she's very tiny, like, 185 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: and she gave birth to two massive boys, and she 186 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: had c sections both times because the first time she 187 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:09,679 Speaker 1: had trouble giving birth because it was just such a 188 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:12,319 Speaker 1: big baby, so she had a c section. And then 189 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: the second time it wasn't so much that the doctor 190 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 1: forced her to have a c section, but she was 191 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: already approaching like past term, like past do, and he 192 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 1: was so big, so they were like, we're gonna go ahead, 193 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:28,200 Speaker 1: and we're just gonna go ahead and get him out 194 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: of there. Well, and then there's the issue of v backs. 195 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: Eventinal birth after cesareans that some doctors aren't so comfortable with, 196 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 1: right um. But there's also the family environment that is 197 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 1: involved with natural childbirthing as well. It's sometimes known as 198 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 1: a family centered birth. You hear a lot about um 199 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: partners being in the room or by the the water 200 00:11:53,559 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 1: birthing tub with the woman who's giving birth, delivering massage, uttering, soothing, inspirational, 201 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 1: have that baby quote, I don't know, good gracious, clearly 202 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: never had a child. You have that baby? Yeah, get 203 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 1: it out, girl. I'm sure that the first thing that 204 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 1: you want to hear if you are spice up your 205 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: life if you're in the middle of labor is just 206 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: an inspirational quote by Walt Whitman or something on top 207 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: of that too, though, you know, there are cultural and 208 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: religious concerns that are sometimes tied into its rural areas. 209 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:31,679 Speaker 1: We talked about how anome gas Can has that farm 210 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 1: in Tennessee, um, and just how you know in rural 211 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 1: settings home births, natural births can be more common. And 212 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: for those rifty parents out there, I know this caught 213 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: my eye. Natural births tend to cost about a third 214 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: of the hospital birth. But yeah, that's that's significant. Yeah, well, 215 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 1: so who is it safe for? I mean, is natural 216 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: birth safe or we all just are we all just nuts? 217 00:12:56,320 --> 00:13:00,199 Speaker 1: And yeah, natural birth is definitely great for women men 218 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: who are healthy and have a low risk pregnancy. You 219 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: might want to reconsider having a non intervention situation if 220 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 1: you do expect that there will be complications. Yeah, even 221 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:17,359 Speaker 1: for women who want to say, go to anime Gascon's 222 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: farm to deliver their child, they have to go through 223 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: rigorous screenings to make sure that they are a healthy. 224 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:27,559 Speaker 1: Candidate who is not just physically healthy, has also been 225 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: having a very healthy diet for the months leading up 226 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 1: to childbirth to make sure that interventions would not otherwise 227 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 1: be needed. Yeah, so, who's not a good candidate. A 228 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: woman over the age of forty, a woman over three 229 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:45,560 Speaker 1: hundred pounds, a woman with high blood pressure, diabetes, or 230 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 1: like we said, a high risk of complication, but putting 231 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: your mind at ease. In the American College of Obstetrics 232 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: and Gynecology said that the absolute risk of planned home 233 00:13:56,280 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: birth is low, but the planned in the plan home 234 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 1: birth is a very important part of this. This isn't 235 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 1: a cock saying, Hey, you know what, if you want 236 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:06,839 Speaker 1: to have your baby at home, you know, just hopping 237 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: the tub, pop it out, no big deal. No. A 238 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:13,199 Speaker 1: lot of times with these planned home births or natural births, 239 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 1: you're gonna have a certified nurse midwife who has been 240 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: trained in delivering babies. You might have a duela to 241 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: help guide you through the process. You'll probably have family 242 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: members there. You know, you have an entire team in 243 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 1: the same way that you would have a birth plan 244 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 1: if you went to a hospital. Well, so, what I 245 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 1: want to know if you're if you're experiencing natural childbirth. 246 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 1: We already talked about how that means you're not using medicine. 247 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: You're not getting an epidural, you don't have any sort 248 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 1: of i VS dripping anything into you. So how are 249 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 1: mom's supposed to cope with the pain of childbirth? Well, 250 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 1: I'm sure a natural birth proponent would say, Caroline, our 251 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 1: bodies are built for this moment. We can do it. 252 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 1: We can absolutely do it. But there are also ways 253 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 1: to manage that pain because the I mean, the thought 254 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: of having a no epidural childbirth is is daunting to me. 255 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: But a lot of women will go in at least 256 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: equipped with some kind of pain management techniques, such as 257 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: the Alexander technique. This was developed by F. M. Alexander, 258 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: and these are techniques he originally developed to help with 259 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: vocal problems that he had, but apparently it teaches mom's 260 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: how to release muscular tension, to increase their breathing capacity 261 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: and restore the body's original point and proper posture, which 262 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: sounds a lot like uh yoga breathing, yeah, yeah, And 263 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: and just putting yourself in a position that's comfortable, which 264 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: is something that natural birth proponents really stress is that 265 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: when you haven't taken pain medication and you're not like 266 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 1: strapped down to a bed in a hospital, you're allowing 267 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 1: yourself to get up and move around as needed. There's 268 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 1: also the Bradley method, which is also known as the 269 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 1: husband coaching method I've leave, which is developed in the 270 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 1: late nine by Dr Robert Bradley. It emphasizes excellent nutrition 271 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 1: and exercise during your pregnancy in addition to relaxation techniques 272 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: to manage pain. It also, obviously because it's also known 273 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: as the husband coaching method, it emphasizes having your husband 274 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: there to help coach you through. Although I will say 275 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: small quibble with the husband coaching method terminology. I think 276 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: it's time we call it the partner partner coaching, the 277 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 1: partner coaching methodology. UM moving onward to hypnosis. Like we 278 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 1: mentioned when we were talking about the father of natural birth, 279 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 1: doctor Grantly dick Reid, who pioneered the use of hypnosis 280 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: during labor in the nineteen forties to foster total relaxation. 281 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 1: Fast forward we have Mary Mangan with her Mongan method, 282 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: also known as hypno birthing, and essentially the point of 283 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: hypno birthing is attempting to override the body's fight or 284 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:06,359 Speaker 1: flight system with hypnosis, right, I mean, I I would 285 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 1: definitely need to be calm. Yeah too, because I'm just 286 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:12,680 Speaker 1: like I said, I'm such a worse, you know, with pain, 287 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:15,399 Speaker 1: and I would just be so scared of the pain 288 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:20,439 Speaker 1: that you know, giving birth whatever. I'm scared of the pain. 289 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: Do you think, though, with hypnosis, that you would be 290 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:30,199 Speaker 1: susceptible enough to persuasion that you could be successfully hypnotized 291 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 1: because a lot of hypnosis depends on your willingness to 292 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 1: that sounds like a video that you and I need 293 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 1: to make about can we be hypnotized? And then I 294 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 1: can answer that question. I don't know under hypnosis. Under hypnosis, 295 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: I'll just talk about sandwiches the whole time. Probably. Do 296 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 1: we have Lamas, which we should sound familiar to you. 297 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,920 Speaker 1: Lama's breathing. It was a pioneered by French Dr Ferdinand 298 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 1: Lamas in nine It utilizes distractions during your contractions to 299 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:03,159 Speaker 1: decrease that perception of pain. And in nineteen sixty, inspired 300 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:07,199 Speaker 1: by Dr Lamas, Marjorie Carmel introduced his techniques in the 301 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: US and started Lamas International. And then we also have 302 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: water birthing, and this is supposed to provide a natural 303 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:20,159 Speaker 1: buoyancy and may reduce vaginal tearing. Relaxes the muscles and UH. 304 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 1: A lot of hospitals actually do have water birthing um tubs. 305 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:31,160 Speaker 1: Birth centers natural birth centers also often provide large jaccuzzi 306 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 1: style tubs, and at home you can even rent special 307 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 1: portable tubs. Yeah, there are risks associated with water birth, 308 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:43,200 Speaker 1: though it's not for women with infections or excessive bleeding 309 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 1: pre aclamsy at or bacteria in the bloodstream, moms who 310 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 1: have herpies or delivering earlier than full term. And the 311 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 1: risk to the baby include brain injury UH from lack 312 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 1: of oxygen underwater. They could have electrolyte problems from the 313 00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 1: baby's swallowing water, and serious infection from contaminated water. Said, 314 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 1: this is not something you want to do just like 315 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:08,200 Speaker 1: on the fly, just like any natural planned home birth. 316 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:10,399 Speaker 1: You want to make sure to dot your eyes and 317 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 1: cross your teeth and don't just hop into a tub. 318 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,640 Speaker 1: And I think you can have a baby correct, no problem. 319 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: Although I will say after reading about all of this 320 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:24,640 Speaker 1: stuff water birth, Yeah, I caught my attention. I was like, 321 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:27,679 Speaker 1: I get this, would you because they said that you know, 322 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 1: water birth's very you don't have to stay in the 323 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:31,959 Speaker 1: tub the whole time. Would you want to deliver in 324 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: the water or would you want to like just sit 325 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:36,639 Speaker 1: in the tub to be buoyant and feel better and 326 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 1: then get out. I don't well, it depends on how 327 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 1: I'm feeling. We'll check back with you and check back 328 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 1: with me. Um. And then there's also birthing from within. 329 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 1: This was pioneered Pam England and it's more portraying birth 330 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: as a rite of passage, includes belly casting sculptures and 331 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:02,120 Speaker 1: other forms of earthing or I'm not entirely sure how 332 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:06,399 Speaker 1: birthing from within is supposed to relieve the pain of 333 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 1: actual child birth. And there was one mom's testimonial we 334 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:15,159 Speaker 1: read about it that said, you need to do some 335 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:17,679 Speaker 1: lamas and other stuff on top of this, because it's 336 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 1: not really going to do much. Well, my mom still 337 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 1: uses lama's breathing when she's pushing the carts down the 338 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 1: aisle on the airplane, so see it still comes in 339 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 1: hand years later. People. Oh, yeah, I mean any kind 340 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 1: of a breathing technique that can Yeah, that can calm 341 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 1: your stress levels. Get that parasympathetic nervous system going is 342 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 1: a usually a good thing. Um. There's also reflexology progressive 343 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 1: and touch relaxation, also guided imagery a k a. Day 344 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,359 Speaker 1: dreaming with the purpose where you you talked about this 345 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 1: earlier Caroline, where you visualize the baby coming out to 346 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 1: help call me down. Yeah, just picture the baby going 347 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 1: down a water slide. So obviously, what we're trying to 348 00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 1: say is that there is a vast menu of options 349 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: for ms who have elected for natural birth aside from 350 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: the epidural Well, so I mean as far as benefits 351 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 1: go of natural birth and and not taking pain medicine. 352 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,159 Speaker 1: A lot of the supporters of this method are saying, 353 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 1: your your body tells you what to do, and it 354 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,879 Speaker 1: and your brain is signaling all these things and helping 355 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 1: your body and the baby know exactly what to do. 356 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 1: And so when you're in so much pain, the body 357 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 1: actually releases endorphins naturally, So that's a natural decrease in 358 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 1: your pain perception. And it can even and this I 359 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: want to hear from moms out there, they say that 360 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: it can even create a shift in thinking, a dream 361 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 1: like state where you're less focused on the outside all 362 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: the people in the room around you, and more focused 363 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 1: internally on the work of labor. So maybe it does 364 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 1: help you kind of envision what needs to happen inside 365 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:55,879 Speaker 1: your body, you know. Writing in favor of natural birth 366 00:21:56,040 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: in the Journal of Prenatal Education, nurse Judith A. Lothian 367 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 1: and follow two thousands talked about this physiology of pain 368 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 1: and childbirth and talked about how the contractions feeling those 369 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 1: contractions can be valuable for helping women figure out how 370 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: to facilitate birth, you know, if they need to move 371 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 1: in a certain way, or if one position is more comfortable, 372 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: or if they're able to push more easily in one position, 373 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,640 Speaker 1: they can feel that from the pain that they might 374 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,200 Speaker 1: not be able to or would not be able to 375 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 1: if they had gotten an epidural. And Lathian also argues 376 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 1: that there is a faster bonding time between mother and 377 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,719 Speaker 1: child during a natural birth or after after a you know, 378 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 1: natural birth, thanks to the fact that they are not 379 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 1: on any medications. And also again proponents will talk about 380 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 1: how the experience of a natural childbirth will stay with 381 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 1: the mother in terms of long term satisfaction. There was 382 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,439 Speaker 1: actually a study that we found um that talked to 383 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: moms from the nineteen sixes and seventies twenty years later 384 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 1: after they had had their natural birth to kind of 385 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,680 Speaker 1: see how the experience still resonated with them. And this 386 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,440 Speaker 1: was in the journal Birth, and they talked about how 387 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 1: those who really felt like they were in control of 388 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 1: their birthing experience had higher self confidence and self esteem 389 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:24,400 Speaker 1: because they felt like they had done this incredible thing 390 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 1: and maybe because of the fact that they felt the pain, 391 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,439 Speaker 1: perhaps it was a more salient experience because you know, 392 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 1: they were they were there present for all of it. 393 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 1: Not to say that if you have an up dural 394 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:37,879 Speaker 1: you're not present, but you know what I mean, Like, mentally, 395 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 1: it's probably easier to remember the experience of pain than 396 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 1: of going under. Now, we've brought up the word empowerment 397 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 1: a lot during this episode to talk about how, you know, 398 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 1: women promote natural birth, how they feel about natural birth. 399 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: But the fascinating thing is that even though a lot 400 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: of it has framed in terms of empowerment, natural birth 401 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 1: has had a icy relationship with feminism. It seems very cyclical, 402 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 1: like at different times during history, it seems like you're 403 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: more of a feminist. If you have your baby in 404 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 1: a hospital, you're more of a feminist. If you have 405 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,479 Speaker 1: your baby at home, you're more of a feminist. If 406 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: you don't have a baby like it seems like there 407 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:24,200 Speaker 1: has been this very like kind of shifting relationship between 408 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 1: childbirth and feminism. And from that New York Times article 409 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,480 Speaker 1: on inome Gasking that we sited earlier, they talked about 410 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:35,639 Speaker 1: how in the early nine hundreds, feminists strongly encouraged women 411 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,160 Speaker 1: to move childbirth from the home to the hospital because 412 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,399 Speaker 1: that was more of a control over what you were doing. 413 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 1: Um In nineteen fifteen, the National Twilight Sleep Association, which 414 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:51,159 Speaker 1: has nothing to do with vampires, lobbied for women to 415 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:55,200 Speaker 1: get enough drugs to not remember the childbirth so you 416 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 1: would be in like more of a twilight sleep while 417 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 1: you were giving birth. And I seen seventies kindom Gascon 418 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 1: herself was at odds with feminists whose focus was on 419 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,880 Speaker 1: getting women into the workplace and out from under those 420 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:09,919 Speaker 1: constraints of the family, and as a result, in nineteen 421 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 1: seventy five, The New York Times notes a Yale feminist 422 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:18,120 Speaker 1: group actually booed gask In off stage, and she Willman Firestone, 423 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 1: who was a big second way feminist, talked publicly about 424 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 1: how she hoped for a day when machines could handle 425 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 1: reproduction because biology doesn't equal destiny and reproduction with something 426 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: biologically foisted upon women. So yeah, there's I mean, you 427 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,680 Speaker 1: you could make an argument either way. I think. Well, 428 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,719 Speaker 1: I mean we also have to take into consideration the 429 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 1: fact that, for instance, that feminist group booing I am 430 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,239 Speaker 1: Gaskin off stage, that was happening, you know, really at 431 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:53,119 Speaker 1: the fever pitch of second wave feminism, when perhaps choice 432 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: wasn't as much of an option for women, when they 433 00:25:55,840 --> 00:26:00,440 Speaker 1: were really trying to push down, um, more bare warriors, 434 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 1: whereas today maybe natural birth is on the rise because uh, 435 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,160 Speaker 1: not to say that we're less politically engaged at all, 436 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:14,400 Speaker 1: but the getting into the workforce thing isn't as um 437 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 1: how do I say this. We're in the workplace, you know, 438 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 1: it's not as it's not as revolutionary. Now we're fighting 439 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,680 Speaker 1: to figure out how to balance all of that to 440 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 1: have our kids and also move our way lean into 441 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: uh promotions at work. Well, it goes back to the 442 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:38,119 Speaker 1: article we talked about in our C Section episode written 443 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 1: by Veronic bergeron UM where she talked about how any 444 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 1: medical intervention is anti feminists. And so, I mean that's 445 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:50,359 Speaker 1: in stark contrast to what Shelmoth Firestone said about you know, 446 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 1: it should all be mechanical and done by machine. Well, 447 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 1: and I just think I mean, to me, at the 448 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 1: end of the day, it's gonna be anti feminist and 449 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:07,119 Speaker 1: unhelpful for women to sit around and point fingers at 450 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: other people who don't have children the way they want to, 451 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 1: or choose not to have children at all, or who 452 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: have children, you know what I mean. We can you 453 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 1: can slice and dice it so many different ways. And 454 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 1: to me, the question is, well, what is the absolute 455 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,399 Speaker 1: truth of this? The absolute truth of it is that 456 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,879 Speaker 1: maternal healthcare should be something that uh, you know, is 457 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 1: supported by the government and safe, and that if women 458 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: want to have home births, then they should be able 459 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 1: to find a certified nurse midwife who can do it safely, 460 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: or if they want to go to the hospital, they 461 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: should not be rushed. They should be able to either 462 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 1: schedule that C section or push vaginally. You know. Like 463 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 1: it's more about to me, like, what are the healthcare 464 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 1: outcomes of this? Yeah? What is what is right for 465 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 1: you and your family and what is healthy for you. 466 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: It shouldn't be because somebody told you what to do necessarily, 467 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 1: and and we shouldn't be I mean, I say we 468 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:03,920 Speaker 1: I don't necessarily mean you and me. I just mean 469 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 1: we as women shouldn't be shaking our fingers at people 470 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 1: being like you gave birth wrong? Right? You know what's 471 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,640 Speaker 1: right for you, it is not right for somebody else. Well, 472 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: and for me reading about natural birth for this episode, 473 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 1: it did open my eyes up to another option that 474 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: from my position, which is pretty far away from childcare 475 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 1: any any time soon. Um. Nevertheless, it was it was 476 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 1: something that I would have never considered, but now that 477 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,679 Speaker 1: I know about it, it has opened my eyes to, hey, oh, 478 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 1: this actually could be an option, you know, if if 479 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 1: I choose to have kids. Right. And also what I 480 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: was wondering, you know, when krist and I were talking 481 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 1: about what to talk about, I did wonder about different 482 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: people's different definitions of what is normal and what is natural, 483 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 1: because I feel like, even on a personal level, we 484 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 1: all have different definitions, but on a national and national level, 485 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 1: people have different definitions of what's normal. Yeah, this conversation 486 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:08,959 Speaker 1: would be strange if we were podcasting in the Netherlands, 487 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 1: for instance, because they're most moms are referred by their 488 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 1: family doctor to a midwife, and doctors will only intervene 489 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 1: in high risk cases. So the natural birthing option and 490 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 1: home births are a lot more common over there, and 491 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 1: I thought this was funny, slash weird slash potentially scary. 492 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 1: Epidurals over there are only given if it's basically convenient 493 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 1: for the antisthesiologists, like during business hours if they have time, 494 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 1: So like, if you're looking for an epidural, I hope 495 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 1: you give birth during a weekday business hour time. Yeah. 496 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 1: We even found a study in the journal Nursing Inquiry 497 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 1: from two thousand nine by Susan Dara who was looking into, Okay, 498 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 1: what is the global definition of normal natural when it 499 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 1: comes to birthing, because I believe, okay, the World Health 500 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 1: Organization defines normal birth as a birth that is spontaneous 501 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 1: and onset low risk at the start of labor and 502 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:14,479 Speaker 1: remaining so throughout labor and delivery, which seems very nebulous. Right. Well, 503 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: they talk in this article about how normal and natural 504 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 1: are not the same thing, and normal isn't even normal 505 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 1: because you might, okay, they might just like look at 506 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 1: a case file on you as a pregnant lady and 507 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 1: be like, oh, yeah, it's like she's healthy. You know, 508 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 1: everything's where it should be. She's normal. But if you 509 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 1: examine anyone, any mother very closely, nobody's really normal normal, 510 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 1: Like everybody has different issues, health issues, even if they're 511 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 1: not something major. So there's that whole issue of defining 512 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:51,080 Speaker 1: a normal birth versus defining what a natural birth means. 513 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 1: For instance, the Royal College of Midwives defines a normal 514 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 1: childbirth as one where a woman commences, continues and completes 515 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 1: labor physiologically at earn, which again sounds very maybe listen vague. Well, 516 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 1: it seems like a lot of these definitions when it 517 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:10,960 Speaker 1: comes to normal simply draws the lineup. It's not induced, 518 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,480 Speaker 1: not inducing the labor in any way, and you would 519 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 1: probably be delivering vaginally and not be a C section. 520 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:19,800 Speaker 1: But that, I mean that brings up the whole question 521 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 1: of what's really normal because how many people are getting 522 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 1: labor induced? And then depending on the stats, something that 523 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 1: we don't think of as quote unquote normal could actually 524 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,360 Speaker 1: be very normal and common. So then you have to 525 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 1: delinea between normal and common, right, and then if the 526 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 1: opposite of normal is abnormal, then it's then who's yeah, 527 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 1: we're all weird? Does the language problem does does get 528 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:45,800 Speaker 1: a bit tricky, But I think we can for the 529 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:50,160 Speaker 1: purpose of this podcast, we can hammer down that natural 530 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 1: birth really does focus on it's not induced, there's no epidural, 531 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:58,240 Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be at home. It is different 532 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,240 Speaker 1: from a home birth. You can have a natural role 533 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,640 Speaker 1: birth at home, but you can also have a natural 534 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 1: birth at a birthing center at a hospital. It's like, 535 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,120 Speaker 1: how square is a rhombus, but a rahmbus is not 536 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 1: a square exactly exactly. Well, I feel like for all 537 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 1: this old broader discussion about natural births versus c sections, 538 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 1: versus epidural no epidural. New York Times magazine writer Samantha M. 539 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,960 Speaker 1: Shapiro summed it up very well, and she's also a 540 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 1: mother when she wrote, quote, there is not one pure 541 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 1: route to authentic motherhood. We had a listener right in 542 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,479 Speaker 1: on Facebook who talked about how after her C section 543 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: she had other mothers tell her she wasn't a real 544 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 1: mother because she didn't give birth Ageli, And that just 545 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 1: breaks my heart because Hello, I as an adult, know 546 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 1: plenty of other adults who were born by C section, 547 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 1: and I mean, well, then their mothers are real mothers. Like, 548 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 1: how can you say that to someone? Well, and then 549 00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 1: it gets into hey, would you say that to an 550 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 1: adoptive mother, you're not a real mom. Yeah, that's awful. 551 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:06,760 Speaker 1: So let's lighten up on judging other people and let's 552 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 1: all just try to be happy and get along. Yaas hippie, Caroline, 553 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 1: You're gonna go run away to Eiim Gaskin's farm in Tennessee. 554 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 1: You know. I hope she has puppies there. I can 555 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 1: just play with them. Well. In the meantime, I'm sure 556 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 1: that this episode has gotten a lot of moms, and 557 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 1: I hope dad's too thinking. So share your thoughts with us. 558 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 1: Mom Stuff at Discovery dot com is where you can 559 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 1: send your letters. You can also message us on Facebook. 560 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 1: I thought also probably the fastest way to get a 561 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,680 Speaker 1: response from us would be via Facebook. I don't work. 562 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 1: I don't work. I just said on Facebook all day. 563 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 1: It's just on Facebook. You can tweet us too at 564 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,120 Speaker 1: Mom's Stuff podcast. And before we get to a couple 565 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,960 Speaker 1: of the messages you sent us, Caroline, let's take just 566 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:55,920 Speaker 1: a short break and now back to our letters. And 567 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 1: we have a couple of letters from our Hair Color 568 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,480 Speaker 1: podcast us which were still getting a lot of fun 569 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 1: emails from This one is from Darlene and Darlene, I 570 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:10,480 Speaker 1: probably read letters from you before her, but I'm going 571 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 1: to read another one from me because it it tickled me. 572 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:15,759 Speaker 1: She writes. I've been coloring my hair since I was 573 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,480 Speaker 1: in my teens. My mother worked for a cosmetics company 574 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,399 Speaker 1: that made hair coloring, so I, her long haired daughter, 575 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 1: often served as a model for new colors. My hair, 576 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,440 Speaker 1: which was naturally mouse brown, has been every shade in 577 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 1: the quasi natural rainbow. I was a brunette when I 578 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 1: got married, a blonde when my son was born, in 579 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 1: a redhead when my corporate i D photo was taken. However, 580 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,880 Speaker 1: a while back, I decided to abandon the constant upkeep, 581 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 1: chopped my hair off short, and was delighted to see 582 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:42,880 Speaker 1: that my natural color was coming in as a beautiful 583 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,200 Speaker 1: shade of silver. I remembered an old clare All product 584 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,920 Speaker 1: called Silk and Silver, which was to enhance and encourage 585 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,879 Speaker 1: silvery hair colors, but discovered it was no longer made, 586 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,800 Speaker 1: and also I couldn't find any products for enhancing naturally 587 00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,760 Speaker 1: silver or gray hair that wasn't spray on or punk related. Personally, 588 00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:01,960 Speaker 1: I can't wait to be a female silver Fox. But 589 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:04,359 Speaker 1: the home hair color and hair care industry doesn't seem 590 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,759 Speaker 1: to offer any help. And I looked up silk and 591 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 1: silver because I wanted to see the box, and I 592 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,239 Speaker 1: couldn't even find a Google image for it. Really. Yeah, 593 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,880 Speaker 1: and I'm surprised too, Darlene, that it hasn't been easier 594 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,680 Speaker 1: to find some kind of at least white or very 595 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,839 Speaker 1: light gray hair coloring, because it's having a has been 596 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 1: having a fashion moment, definitely, so it might be something 597 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 1: you have to go to your settle. Yeah, that's true. 598 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:36,359 Speaker 1: I have a letter here from Adam about blonde hair 599 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 1: and stereotypes. He said, when I was in South America, 600 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,440 Speaker 1: people often seem surprised to hear I was from the US. 601 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:45,480 Speaker 1: Apparently many people think Americans are all tall with blonde 602 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:47,759 Speaker 1: hair and blue eyes. I'm not sure when we all 603 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:51,680 Speaker 1: became Norwegian, but that's the stereotype. When people would ask 604 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:53,640 Speaker 1: where I'm from and I replied, they'd say, you're from 605 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:56,640 Speaker 1: the US, but you're not a monkey. I finally asked 606 00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:59,160 Speaker 1: what the word indicated. I knew it meant monkey, but 607 00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:02,360 Speaker 1: apparently in Ambian slang it's someone with blonde hair and 608 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,200 Speaker 1: blue eyes. I don't know how they came to think 609 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,000 Speaker 1: we're all blond with blue eyes, especially since Columbians by 610 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:11,000 Speaker 1: far have more fun despite their dark hair. But at 611 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:13,439 Speaker 1: least I figured out why everyone was surprised I wasn't 612 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,319 Speaker 1: a monkey, So thank you Adam. Yeah, Adam is one 613 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:19,719 Speaker 1: of our super fans who is traveling the world and 614 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,359 Speaker 1: sends us photos a lot from places that he's been 615 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 1: and makes me a little jealous that I am not traveling, 616 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,320 Speaker 1: So Adam, thank you. I'm traveling by curiously through you. 617 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:33,799 Speaker 1: Well again. Our email addresses mom Stuff at Discovery dot com. 618 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,719 Speaker 1: You can follow us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. 619 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,000 Speaker 1: Check in with us on Facebook because we've got a 620 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,399 Speaker 1: lot of fun stuff going on this summer as well. 621 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:43,960 Speaker 1: You can follow us on Tumbler too weird Stuff Mom 622 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,640 Speaker 1: Never told You dot tumbler dot com, and don't forget 623 00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,200 Speaker 1: to watch us as well. Three times a week we're 624 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:55,040 Speaker 1: coming at you on YouTube, making you laugh and helping 625 00:36:55,120 --> 00:37:00,520 Speaker 1: you learn at YouTube dot com, slash stuff Never Told You, 626 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,600 Speaker 1: or more on this in thousands of other topics. Is 627 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:06,879 Speaker 1: it hastaff works dot com.