1 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 1: Hey, welcome in This is All Ball, the All Basketball Podcast. 2 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: My guest this week is Nick. Nick is a talented 3 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:18,159 Speaker 1: radio host in Omaha, Nebraska, and of course he's a 4 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 1: native corn Husker, grew up in Lincoln, went to KU, 5 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 1: then transferred to see you to Craighton and is uh 6 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 1: is an outstanding broadcaster on our Fox family of networks. 7 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 1: We get to him in a second. Let me give 8 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: a couple of quick thoughts in regard to Zion Williamson. 9 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 1: I like that Kobe Bryant finally stepped out and said, 10 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:40,920 Speaker 1: like you made a commitment, you went to go play 11 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: in college, finish up. This is not crossing the freeway dangerous. 12 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: You know. Oh he could, he could suffer severe injury. 13 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: I think the I think the issue is there is 14 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: a sense you can tell me if I'm wrong. You 15 00:00:56,840 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: can feel free to tweet at me. Ad got leave show. 16 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: There's a sense from some people that, well, Zion shouldn't 17 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: play for Duke because Duke makes money off Zion. My 18 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: point has always been that colleges make money off of 19 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: the success of all their students, and the one difference 20 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:17,479 Speaker 1: is with Zion. Yes, Duke would make money off him, 21 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,400 Speaker 1: off of his name and his likeness and his talents, 22 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:24,119 Speaker 1: and potentially when a national championship, another one for coach 23 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 1: k here's the payback. He'd be part of a legacy 24 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: of champions at Duke. He'd be potentially playing the final four. 25 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 1: We act like everyone in the world knows who and 26 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:39,320 Speaker 1: see has seen Zion Williamson play. I just let me 27 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:41,680 Speaker 1: explain this to you. There's lots of people that don't 28 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 1: watch college basketball. College basketball's ratings I think the one 29 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: he got hurt in when he played thirty seconds in yeah, 30 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 1: that was that got a three point five five. That 31 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: is lower than the rating for the Pro Bowl. So 32 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: so we act like everybody watches college basket but everybody 33 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: knows who he is. He's gonna be the number one pick. 34 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: The chance to play for national championship is playing for three, four, five, six, seven, eight, 35 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: ten times as many people, which makes your brand, you're 36 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 1: the personal knowledge of who you are even bigger. He 37 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: would be a huge star coming into the NBA Draft, 38 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: which he may already be, but it only cements it 39 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 1: the more mainstream America sees him play in the n 40 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: c A Tournament and play for the biggest name in 41 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 1: college basketball, which is Duke. So this idea that only 42 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 1: Duke makes money off of his eye and it's not true. 43 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: It is actually a very very fair trade, even for 44 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 1: somebody's talented design leams. And there is something to the commitment. 45 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:43,639 Speaker 1: We didn't ask you to commit for the rest of 46 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 1: your life. This is not the Naval Academy or any 47 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: of the service academies where if you play for two years, 48 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: you gotta serve for four like, No, we don't do that, 49 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 1: simply said, simply stated, Hey, you committed to play when 50 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 1: you're in college basketball, finished the year. If you're carefully 51 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 1: enough to play, then play. If he's not healthy, I'm 52 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: okay with him sitting till he's right, but just to 53 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:09,639 Speaker 1: spring knee, and I think he just scared himself. Now 54 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 1: what shoes he wears and how he plays much more interesting. 55 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 1: And if he doesn't play well, he'll get the he'll 56 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 1: get the pass because people will say, well, he's tentative, 57 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: he's worried about a shoe ripping. But to the he 58 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 1: shouldn't play. Look, I hate to break it to you, 59 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:26,959 Speaker 1: but when he was playing in a U basketball and 60 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:28,639 Speaker 1: he played in Las Vegas a couple of years ago, 61 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 1: and he played against LaMelo Ball. Guess what they made 62 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: money off of him? They did, and he got exposure 63 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 1: which helps start the building of his brand. Same thing 64 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: with YouTube and in In the end, it'll all even 65 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 1: out and he'll be worth a couple million by the 66 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: end of this basketball season. He'll be worth you know, 67 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: tens of millions within the next year or two, and 68 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: potentially if he continues to prove, hundreds of millions. Let's 69 00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: also remember that, unlike football, where if you're not playing 70 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: you can just be training, you're playing basketball and you're 71 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: not playing with the team, you're going to be trained 72 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 1: to keep your weight down, you can just as easily 73 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 1: get hurt. What happens then what if you're if you're 74 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: so injury really he's not what happens? Then let me 75 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: quickly get to the NBA and something I've noticed with 76 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 1: the Boston Celtics, Gordon Heyward was trending the way of 77 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 1: being a perennial wall Star. He's only gotten one All 78 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: Star game, but he left the friendly confines of Utah 79 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 1: and Quinn Snyder, who I think had done an amazing 80 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: job and still is doing an amazing job as a 81 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:35,719 Speaker 1: head coach. He left Utah to go to Boston. Of course, 82 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: as we know, a couple minutes into his first NBA 83 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: game with the Boston Celtics, he breaks his leg against 84 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,559 Speaker 1: the Cleveland Cavaliers. There's been a lot of people talking 85 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,799 Speaker 1: about whether or not the Celtics are better or worse 86 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 1: with Kyrie Irving. And part of the issue is we 87 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:54,720 Speaker 1: look at raw dada and we don't look at context, right, 88 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:57,840 Speaker 1: whether he plays or he doesn't play. We don't point 89 00:04:57,839 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 1: out the fact that the games that he's taken off 90 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 1: the most part have been games in which they could 91 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: have a couple of starters sit out and still win, right, like, congratulations, 92 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: he didn't play against the Hawks, or he didn't play 93 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 1: against the Magic, or he didn't play against but he 94 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 1: plays against the big boys. That's how they manage him 95 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 1: as he's coming back from that from the multiple knee 96 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: operations that he had that ended his season prematurely. What's 97 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 1: not discussed is the Gordon Hayward effect. Hayward makes so 98 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: much money that there's like anything inherent curiosity, maybe even 99 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 1: jealousy in that locker room, and if you watch, they're 100 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 1: just not those guys are just not in on Hayward. 101 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 1: Considering the amount of minutes and more minutes than shots 102 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: he gets, Like Gordon Hayward is getting twenty six minutes 103 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: a game, twenty six minutes a game, which is equal 104 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:54,719 Speaker 1: to Jalen Brown, and Jalen Brown continues to be a 105 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: better player, you know, whether it's Jason Tatum or or 106 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: Gordon Hayward, or Terry Rogier or Marcus Smart. Like, look, 107 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: Marcus Smart got paid in this last offseason, so someone 108 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: just thought about pay in that type of ego. But 109 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 1: just the idea that Hayward played for Brad, I'm sure 110 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 1: translates poorly in that locker room. Ah, He's he's Brad's guy, 111 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: and he is, you know, a former butler guy who 112 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: did break his ankle. Isn't the same player fighting his 113 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:29,599 Speaker 1: way to get back. And so while we look for 114 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 1: for reasons curious reasons why the Celtics chemistry is not 115 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 1: good as of now, there's the couple a couple of reasons. 116 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 1: One I think is we cover the NBA far more 117 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 1: ferocity than we ever did previously. But two, I think 118 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 1: Gordon Hayward and the effect of his contract, the effect 119 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 1: of his minutes and the fact that he played for 120 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: UH for Brad Stevenson College was recruited by Brad Stevens. 121 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: It leads you to believe, however, untrue, that he's like 122 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 1: he's like Brad stephens Son. He's always gonna take care 123 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 1: of him, and that creates y'all to see and that 124 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 1: makes it so that is not great chemistry, because it's 125 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 1: pretty obvious that the chemistry yet now, as of now 126 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: is off of the Boston Celtics. Doesn't mean they can't 127 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: turn that into a positive, but as of now it's 128 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 1: off the Celtics. Thing is interesting because of Hayward, because 129 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: Kyrie is still trying to figure out how to be 130 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: a leader. But we also have to remember how we 131 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 1: covered this thing, and I would guess that as you 132 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 1: get towards the playoffs, the rotations will shorten, the minutes 133 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: for Hayward at the production is not there will wane, 134 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: and the chemistry will get better. This has actually happened 135 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: for years in the NBA. We just didn't cover it 136 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: nearly as thoroughly. I know, I've been doing this for 137 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: sixteen years. We didn't cover it like this. So I'm 138 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: not selling my Brad Stevens as a genius stock. I 139 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: still think the Lakers make the playoffs, and I'm fascinated 140 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: to see how all the rotations come together. But it 141 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 1: wouldn't surprise me if Portland's ends up. Let me see 142 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: in Portland, if Toronto ends up coming out of the East. 143 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: They've been closed before, and now you add Kawai Leonard, 144 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 1: who's an absolute killer at both ends of the floor, 145 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: and it wouldn't surprise me. At the Golden State Wars 146 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: in spite of the fact that the West is not 147 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: as good as it's been struggled because DeMarcus Cousins still 148 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: doesn't have left. They're different defensively with him, and their 149 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 1: bench isn't as good as it's been. Here's what we 150 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 1: do things here. I want to talk this year in 151 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: college basketball, but I also want to talk about you 152 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 1: and basketball. You grew up in in Lincoln, Nebraska? Correct? Um? 153 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:33,079 Speaker 1: Is there a neighborhood in Lincoln? Like? I know nothing 154 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: of Lincoln other than I Land and the only played 155 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:38,560 Speaker 1: like that. I think it's an kind of an underrated place. 156 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 1: But I know nothing about Lincoln. Where'd you grow up? So? 157 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 1: I grew up across the street from Frank Solich. How 158 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 1: about that? How about that little nugget for you. So 159 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 1: Frank Solich, like when you would you know, when you're 160 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 1: out playing around like football, basketball, whatever, in your front 161 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 1: yard or in the driveway. Like when when Frank Solich 162 00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: turned when that when his suburban turned into my cold 163 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,439 Speaker 1: sack man, it was it was on to try to 164 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:04,719 Speaker 1: prove the Frank Solids that you know, you could you 165 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 1: were an athlete. But yeah, it was it's that's that's football, 166 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 1: uh country, as you know, Doug, I mean it's uh, 167 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: it's it's Nebraska football sixty five. My dad played, uh, 168 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 1: wing back for Nebraska. My my uncle played wide receiver 169 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 1: at Nebraska. Like there's Nebraska football, uh, not only in 170 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: in my family, but in in the area, but where 171 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 1: there's also a ton of coaching. My grandpa was a 172 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 1: was was a legendary high school coach and athletic director. 173 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 1: There's a at Fremont High School in Fremont, Nebraska. The 174 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 1: gym's named after him. And so my uncle coaches high 175 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,679 Speaker 1: school basketball. My brothers high school basketball coach. So there 176 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: was always a ton of basketball also around me. And 177 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: that was that's what I fell in love with. I was. 178 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: I was All state quarterback in high school as well, 179 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:53,679 Speaker 1: but I was just, uh, you know it is. I mean, 180 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:55,080 Speaker 1: when you get when you fall in love with the 181 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 1: with the game of basketball, man, it just you can't 182 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: shake it. I tried. I tried to explain to my wife. 183 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 1: My son's nine and last year he was eight, and 184 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: he was not very good. We had moved from Connecticut 185 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 1: and we had had a tennis court that I had 186 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 1: had played basketball on as well, and so he was 187 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 1: decent um. But I was working so much in the 188 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:20,199 Speaker 1: afternoons and on weekends that I wasn't able to really 189 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:23,959 Speaker 1: coach him. And you know, he didn't go to clinics 190 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 1: or whatever, he didn't grow up going to camps, and 191 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: so when we got out to California, he was kind 192 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: of overwhelmed a little bit, and I played him up 193 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: and he didn't love it. And then now he's gotten 194 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 1: where he's kind of good at he's better. He's not good, 195 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:37,840 Speaker 1: but he's better. And now he I mean, now it's 196 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 1: he's addicted. You know, he's all over it and and 197 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 1: it's amazing because he's playing catch up just in things 198 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 1: he doesn't know. Um, but I I get you, Okay, 199 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 1: So why didn't you go to Nebraska? Like who is 200 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: who is that Nebraska when you finished up in high school, 201 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:55,559 Speaker 1: it was like two thousand one or two thousand two. 202 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 1: You got done with graduating two thousand three. It was 203 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 1: very call Yer was was the head coach at the time, 204 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 1: and he sounded a perfect he was. He was. He 205 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: was a two car garage, two parents and the home guy. 206 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 1: He loves state champions like he was. That that was 207 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 1: perfect for you. I know you would you would have thought, 208 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 1: I have my little theories on things. You know, I 209 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: mean if when you don't get because I didn't really 210 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 1: get recruited that hard by by Nebraska at all, and 211 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,319 Speaker 1: I had this theory in my mind and were I'm 212 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:28,679 Speaker 1: just gonna throw it at you. There there were So 213 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:33,719 Speaker 1: when when coach Collier took the job, he immediately signed 214 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 1: three kids from the state of Nebraska. So he high 215 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 1: school team in mind, Jake mual Heisen, who was really 216 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: good player. Uh then signed West Wilkinson, Jason derusso check 217 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 1: out four, and then he signed Roy in Right. So 218 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 1: he signed one kid from Grand Island, Nebraska, two kids 219 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 1: from Omaha. So, so he took the job and within 220 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 1: you know, a year or two, all of a sudden 221 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: he's got four kids, Doug, four kids from the state 222 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 1: of Nebraska, And in my mind, I always wondered if 223 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: he thought, man, am I really because I mean the 224 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 1: Braska high school basketball it's a great I wonder if 225 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:09,199 Speaker 1: he thought, in his mind, I'm getting a little Nebraska 226 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 1: heavy and I don't. I think I maybe need to 227 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 1: to diversify this a little bit. It was either that 228 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: or you just didn't think. He didn't like my game 229 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:18,679 Speaker 1: that much. And what's funny is when I see him now, 230 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: so I do. Obviously with the Big Eastern Fox, I 231 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: do a lot of Butler games. And now Coach Callier 232 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 1: and I have a really good relationship. But I'm not 233 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 1: gonna lie when I when I was, when I was 234 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:31,200 Speaker 1: coming out, I was, I was hurt. And so he 235 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,559 Speaker 1: didn't offer you. He didn't offer you. He didn't Doug. 236 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: He did not offer me a scholarship. He offered me 237 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 1: to to to walk on. Uh And yeah that was 238 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 1: you you? Uh? So who who recruited you from? Roy Staff, Roy, 239 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 1: Joel Holiday, Joe Holiday, the great guy. And what's funny, 240 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 1: And it's amazing how much things have changed. And I'm 241 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: sure you can can relate to this like I remember 242 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 1: me and my high school coach. We sat down and 243 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 1: we had this was VHS tapes, This was still when 244 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:05,440 Speaker 1: VHS tapes were a thing, and we made probably I 245 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:08,679 Speaker 1: made a list of fifteen schools, and we may put 246 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 1: two or three of my games on fifteen VHS tapes 247 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 1: and just sent them out right, And you know, we 248 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:17,320 Speaker 1: got responses from like almost everyone, either like hey, we 249 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: think you know, we like you always think you're mid major, 250 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 1: or hey we're we're we're pretty loaded at the common 251 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,679 Speaker 1: guard to guard. But that's how Joe Holiday and Kansas 252 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: found me, and he watched my film and liked me, 253 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 1: and then everything kind of took off from there. What's 254 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: it's it's it's interesting to say out loud in hindsight 255 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: now that I mean Kansas recruited me exponentially harder than 256 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: Nebraska did. And I mean Kansas was, you know, coming 257 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 1: off back to back Final four's and and and all 258 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 1: that and so, and what was hard was you know, 259 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: when I when I went back and played when I 260 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: was at Kansas and went back and played Nebraska, it 261 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 1: was one of the most ruthless two hours of basketball 262 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 1: I ever played in. I mean, anytime I caught the 263 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:01,319 Speaker 1: ball they were chanting Trader and booing me. They didn't. 264 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: They didn't. They didn't offer me a scholarship. You want 265 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 1: me to want? So what I wanted to call time 266 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:09,719 Speaker 1: out and grab the mic and and explain all that 267 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: to people. But you know, I mean all as well, 268 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:14,960 Speaker 1: that ends well, I mean in in the journey, ultimately 269 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 1: let me, ultimately, let me back to Creighton, which was 270 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 1: a really good fit for me to play for. Coach 271 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 1: alman Um, What was what was Roy like to play for? Well, 272 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: see that's the thing. Roy left right as I was 273 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: coming in. So so my whole, my my, So you 274 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 1: so you're behind Aaron miles ahead. I'm sorry, go ahead, yeah, 275 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 1: so so I yeah, So I come in and I 276 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 1: commit to play for Roy. Roy leaves for Carolina, and 277 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: then Bill self comes in and absolutely love Bill Self. 278 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: I mean he is you know, I mean, I think 279 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: you're pretty close with him. He's I mean, awesome, dude, unbelievable. 280 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: Coach Um, And so I come in and in your notes, 281 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 1: when you when you play for someone didn't recruit you, 282 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 1: it's it's that's challenging, you know, I mean it's it's 283 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: it's tough, and especially when game compared to the guys 284 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: that he likes or is a little different, you know, 285 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: I mean he he kind of likes defensive oriented, tough 286 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 1: minded guards, where I was more of a space the floor, 287 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: cerebral guy. Because you just saw was white. Yeah you 288 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 1: got all that. Yes, uh so, No it was, I 289 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: mean it was. But it was unbelievable to play in 290 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 1: Kansas for two years. I always tell people like, and 291 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 1: I'm sure you you know with Yoaki State blood pumping 292 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 1: three of that Kansas, you know you probably can never 293 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: shake the you know, the hate you feel for them. No, no, 294 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 1: but you but you respect that program. No, no, no, 295 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 1: listens like people have people are completely they fans are 296 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: fans are excuse me, sees my friends. They're fucking idiots, guy, 297 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: And that's they're just the dumbest, fucking people on the 298 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 1: face of the fucking earth because they don't understand the score. 299 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 1: I grew up in southern California, and there was a 300 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: there was a time it really used to get one 301 00:15:57,400 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: kid out of Southern California every year, including Paul Pierce, 302 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: who was my roommate at abc D. You go back 303 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 1: into Donnas Jordan, my dad coached him and he he 304 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: signed him, and there's just a litany of guys that 305 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 1: they got. Eric Chenowith, who was behind me, Um, you know, 306 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 1: came from from right down the street, you know, he 307 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 1: was he was like my kind of like my bigger 308 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 1: little brother, uh, playing in Orange County. So um. So 309 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: I was actually pissed that he didn't offer me, like 310 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: I was his exact proto type point guard for how 311 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 1: he had a right and he too, but he took 312 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 1: Ryan Robertson, who was from you know, much closer and 313 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: had so and but but the other part is that 314 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: people think that, like twenty years later, you're still bitter 315 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 1: about it, Like no, Like I'm I'm a I'm a 316 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: grown up. It worked out really well for me, did 317 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: I Did I get that Kansas got all the calls 318 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 1: at home? Like yeah, everybody kind of knows that, right 319 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 1: um and and but but I think it's an awesome place. 320 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 1: And once you once you right, like there's nothing Okay, 321 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: here's a here's an honest question I have for you. You 322 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 1: You only played about half the games. There's like end 323 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 1: of you said. I remember, so Bill's Bill's first year. 324 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:08,199 Speaker 1: He inherited a loaded team and they kind of fought him. Um, 325 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 1: I was told like he wanted longer practices. And you 326 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 1: know Roy when he gets to coach Williams, when he 327 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 1: gets to you know, February, it becomes country. You know, 328 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:19,439 Speaker 1: super super short, get get in, get your shots, you know, 329 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,400 Speaker 1: run through your stuff and get out. Um. But what's 330 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: it like to go from because I think, no, I 331 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:27,160 Speaker 1: never experienced this. What does it like to go from 332 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 1: being a superstar in high school and then actually not 333 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 1: playing games like be be a healthy scratch? It was 334 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 1: It was really really really hard. I mean because basketball 335 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:46,080 Speaker 1: basketball is a rhythm sport and it's a confidence sport. 336 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 1: I think Charles Barkley always has the great line the 337 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 1: only difference between a good player and a great player's confidence. 338 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,360 Speaker 1: And I don't care what you can do. You can 339 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: kill and practice, you can kill and pick up games, 340 00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:59,439 Speaker 1: you can put in a bunch of work in you know, 341 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:03,719 Speaker 1: on the on individuals, whatever, but you gotta go do 342 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:05,920 Speaker 1: it in a game. You know that, Like, you gotta 343 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: go do it in a game for that confidence to 344 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 1: really explode. And I think that that's something that killed me, 345 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: Like in some ways, I don't know if I ever 346 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:20,200 Speaker 1: fully regained that swagger that a lot of us play 347 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: with in high school and that you know, that fu 348 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 1: attitude when you take the floor, like you know, I'm 349 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: I'm gonna show everybody what the deal is here for 350 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: the next forty minutes. I don't know if I ever 351 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,639 Speaker 1: fully regained that and that that was that was hard. 352 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:35,680 Speaker 1: That's a that's a great that's a that's a great point. 353 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:38,240 Speaker 1: See I I always feel like that's that was kind 354 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: of my thing, which was like, look, when I in 355 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:42,479 Speaker 1: a U, I played with great players, so I did 356 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 1: a little bit both. But by my senior year, I 357 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 1: was also scorer and a pastor. And then in high school, 358 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:49,159 Speaker 1: you know, I did everything, and then I got to 359 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:51,680 Speaker 1: Notre Dame and I was trying so hard to do 360 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 1: everything that John McCleod wanted. Then I kind of lost 361 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 1: my game and I got back some of that swagger 362 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:58,440 Speaker 1: the year I sat out, But then again I was 363 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 1: just like such a pleaser, And but then you get 364 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,479 Speaker 1: into a role early on in college and it's really 365 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: hard to break up. Like, look, I get people all 366 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 1: the time like you you couldn't shoot, Like, well, do 367 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:10,440 Speaker 1: you think I would have been recruited by everyone in 368 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 1: the country if I couldn't shoot at a high school 369 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 1: like it's it's total confidence mental thing. And and but 370 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:20,160 Speaker 1: but and then you know you're you're you're told, uh, 371 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: you know by people who don't understand, like to kind 372 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 1: of level off the attitude whatever. But in order to 373 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:26,680 Speaker 1: if you want to be a and how tall are you? 374 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 1: Yeah to be a six two or I'm a I'm 375 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 1: a six ft white dude and play in the big 376 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,920 Speaker 1: twelve and play like you better have some swagger like 377 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,400 Speaker 1: you just do because guys are coming at you every day. 378 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 1: And it's a great point that you go somewhere and 379 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:44,639 Speaker 1: you think, all right, I'm gonna bide my time, by 380 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 1: my time. And for me, I thought like, look, I'm 381 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 1: just gonna do what I gotta do to get on 382 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:51,720 Speaker 1: the court, and then ultimately I'll let my game, you know, 383 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 1: let my nuts hanging, let my game come out. It's 384 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 1: a hard thing to get back when you lose that confidence. 385 00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 1: It's tough, and especially for meat Doug, it was like, 386 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,159 Speaker 1: so I dislocated my shoulder the fourth game of my 387 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: football season my senior year, and I missed half my 388 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 1: basketball season. So I'm coming back from that. Then I 389 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 1: go to Kansas and I basically more or less don't 390 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 1: play for two years, then I transfer and have to 391 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 1: sit out. So Doug, we're talking about like almost three 392 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 1: full years of me not really playing a lot. And 393 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:28,919 Speaker 1: it was my rhythm was gone, my my my timing 394 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 1: was gone, and my confidence was was a little bit shook. 395 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 1: And then the other thing too was I think, uh, subconsciously, 396 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 1: I tried, I tried not to be like this, but 397 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:39,639 Speaker 1: I think there was an element of I walked in, 398 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 1: I walked into Craton thinking, Okay, I've just dealt with 399 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 1: Keith Lankford and and Aaron Miles, and you know, Kirk 400 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: Kinra can come back in the summer. I'm like, this 401 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:48,880 Speaker 1: is I'm gonna I'm gonna come in and I'm gonna 402 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,119 Speaker 1: I'm gonna run things here. And there was there was 403 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 1: a cat named Nate Funk at Creighton that was a 404 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 1: big time mid major guard. I mean I'm talking big 405 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 1: times and and in a lot of ways. The my 406 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,640 Speaker 1: red shirt year at Creighton, the Valley got four teams 407 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 1: in the n c A Tournament. Think about that, four 408 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 1: teams from the Valley went into the n c A Tournament. 409 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 1: Like the Valley was really good. Southern Illinois was really good. 410 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 1: So it was I'm willing to say out loud that 411 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 1: I you know, it was the valley was better than 412 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: I thought it was. I think, uh, I think the 413 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 1: sixth engine between my ears was a was an issue 414 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,120 Speaker 1: for me kind of throughout my career, and I kind 415 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:30,880 Speaker 1: of I kind of got it back my senior year 416 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 1: a little bit. Um but then you know, then I 417 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,719 Speaker 1: then I started to have I was battling planar fasciitists. 418 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:37,640 Speaker 1: I started kind of banged up and all that. But 419 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:40,439 Speaker 1: you know, everybody's got their their story to tell um 420 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 1: on kind of explain the career and there, you know, 421 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't I mean listen excuses or reasons no, no, no, no, 422 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,639 Speaker 1: no no from the same you know you don't you know, 423 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:50,439 Speaker 1: you don't gotta go there with me, Like I I 424 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 1: really like, again, this is where this this podcast is 425 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: not for civilians. It's for ball guys, right, Like you're 426 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 1: in the ball and yeah, it's like by the time 427 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,120 Speaker 1: you get your confidence bad, now a sudden, your bodies, 428 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:03,919 Speaker 1: your body is letting you down. Like for me, by 429 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 1: the time I got my confidence back, you know, I 430 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:09,200 Speaker 1: was already kind of into broadcasting and it was really 431 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:11,679 Speaker 1: and then I was like, shit, you know, yeah, what 432 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 1: are you doing? What do you? What do I do? 433 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,199 Speaker 1: Do I do I do I go to do I 434 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 1: commit to broadcasting? Do I want to play? And then you, 435 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,359 Speaker 1: I mean coach Altman always I think Coach Altman had this. 436 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: And the other thing too, is you you talked about 437 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 1: like trying to do everything your your coach told you 438 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 1: to do. I think Coach Altman wanted me to be 439 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 1: like a charge TAKERU tough guy and that really wasn't 440 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:34,919 Speaker 1: my game, you know. But and so you get then 441 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 1: you get into a horrible place where you're kind of 442 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 1: fighting your rule and then you'll just never win that battle. 443 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 1: Like I just want It's one of the things where 444 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: I want to tell every every kid playing out there, 445 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 1: if you want to change your role, grow out of 446 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: your role, like be a star. It be amazing at 447 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 1: your role to the point where you're you know, you 448 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,400 Speaker 1: almost have to graduate to that next roles. That makes sense. 449 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: So like if you want to you you want to 450 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:03,119 Speaker 1: be a a an unbelievable starter, contributor will kill it 451 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 1: off the bench to the point where you're embracing everything 452 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:07,159 Speaker 1: you do to where the coach goes Okay, well, we 453 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 1: gotta get you. We gotta do this guy more opportunities. 454 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 1: We've got to give more minutes and then things will 455 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 1: build it up like that. I mean, the whole fighting 456 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:17,120 Speaker 1: your role is the is the dumbest thing you could 457 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 1: ever do as a player. Yeah, I also think. I 458 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:21,400 Speaker 1: also think, and I don't know, if you had this 459 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,160 Speaker 1: like I would, I would work work, work, work, work, 460 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 1: and my shooting, my game. And then we get into 461 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: the season and you know, you have a girlfriend, you 462 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: have school, you have also other stuff, and all that 463 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:36,879 Speaker 1: work you did, you still get in the gym. Like 464 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:38,439 Speaker 1: I think guys now getting the gym a lot more 465 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:40,679 Speaker 1: because they have the ability and facilities and they got 466 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 1: the gun machine and they got you know, managers galore whatever. 467 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 1: But again these are some excuses, some explanations. Some of 468 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 1: it's just on me. Just I look back and and 469 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,919 Speaker 1: I didn't you know, I didn't necessarily stop working, but 470 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 1: I wasn't working as hard in season as I did 471 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 1: in the preseason. And you know, when your confidence starts 472 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 1: the wayne and then the results aren't as good, then 473 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: you're like, well fuck it, I just I'll just pass 474 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 1: and play defense and and and let the rest kind 475 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,439 Speaker 1: of take care of itself. Um. It's a it's a 476 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:09,919 Speaker 1: fascinating thing. And it's do you have you have? You 477 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: have kids? Right, you have a three year old daughter. 478 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: It's a it's an amazing thing to have a son. 479 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:18,920 Speaker 1: And you know, like he asked me, like, well, why 480 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,239 Speaker 1: didn't you play in the NBA? And I don't know 481 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:22,920 Speaker 1: how much I want to get into his head with 482 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,920 Speaker 1: I what I told him was like, well, I didn't 483 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,359 Speaker 1: think I could shoot. And he's like, well could you. 484 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,639 Speaker 1: I was like, well, yeah, I could. I just didn't 485 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 1: think I could shoot. I said, you know, you can't 486 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 1: ever let anybody tell you. You You gotta always believe no 487 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,160 Speaker 1: matter what you're doing. But I don't want to get 488 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 1: too much into his head and tell him that you 489 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,879 Speaker 1: know that that that I I mind screwed myself, but 490 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 1: I did. But it's an amazing thing to watch a 491 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 1: kid kind of try and figure it out and then 492 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 1: he's gonna ask you, and you know, the and the 493 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: good thing is, with the exception of the shooting thing, 494 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 1: people tell him I was much better player than I was. Um, 495 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:56,399 Speaker 1: So then that puts a little bit that puts a 496 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,199 Speaker 1: little bit of pressure on him. Um. But it's a 497 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 1: it's a fast any thing to go through. And I 498 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 1: think I think that most of us. You know, it's 499 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: like did you go play for the right coach? Did 500 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: you go play at the right place? Did you have 501 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 1: the right experience? Um? Do you leave at the right time? 502 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: Like when you left we left Kansas to the right decision? 503 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:16,639 Speaker 1: Was createing the right place? I don't know. Let me 504 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,400 Speaker 1: ask you this about about Nebraska. What do you think 505 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,200 Speaker 1: happens there? I mean, you do you have your own 506 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:25,360 Speaker 1: show in Omaha? Um. They they've built incredible facilities. It's 507 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 1: a program that you know, again you've got to be 508 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,440 Speaker 1: inventive as a recruiter. Tim's shown the ability to take 509 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 1: them to the tournament. Obviously he's coached other places and 510 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,880 Speaker 1: and been good. He's a great guy. Um. But they 511 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,800 Speaker 1: made a huge investment in an arena and in a 512 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 1: practice facility, and you know, I think people want better 513 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 1: results than what they were what they have gotten in 514 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 1: spite of the injury. What do you think happens there? Yeah? 515 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 1: I think first of all, uh, when the fan base 516 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: starts to when that's when when when that starts to 517 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: turn on you, That's a hard thing to reverse. And 518 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 1: it feels like that has happened where the fan base 519 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: has slowly started turning on on Coach Miles and that 520 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 1: negativity snowball is is humming down the mountain right now. 521 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,760 Speaker 1: And some of it is hard from from Coach Miles 522 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,120 Speaker 1: standpoint that you know, the Shauna Cours was the athletic 523 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,159 Speaker 1: director that didn't hire him, but then Shannai Corps tires 524 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,400 Speaker 1: Mike Rowley. That's a colossit failure now, so he's two 525 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 1: athletic directors removed from the guy who hired him. And 526 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,199 Speaker 1: it almost feels like Coach Miles has coached on the 527 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,639 Speaker 1: hot seat for three straight years. And you know this 528 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:38,960 Speaker 1: does because you get it like that is that is 529 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 1: a program killer man like that when where you you 530 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: he has the shortest contract of any coach in the 531 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 1: Big Tan. That hurts recruiting. Uh there, I think Tim 532 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 1: has said on he went on Jeff Goodman's podcast and 533 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 1: talked about how when you're on the hot seat you 534 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 1: maybe coach a little bit different. He allowed a guy 535 00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,920 Speaker 1: Jordie Shmanga, big Kid, who quit the team for two 536 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,239 Speaker 1: days to come back and I think he felt like 537 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:05,639 Speaker 1: that was a decision that was based out of almost 538 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 1: hot seat stuff. And so I think in his defense, 539 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 1: I do think the fact that there hasn't been a 540 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,879 Speaker 1: lack of there's been a lack of support from above 541 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 1: has hurt. But at the end of the day, you know, 542 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 1: it's year seven. He's gone to the tournament one time. Um, 543 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,679 Speaker 1: And the thing that I think kills him right now is, 544 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: you know, he went to the tournament his second year. 545 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 1: The next year he brought back to Rampetaway, Walter, Pitchford, 546 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 1: pretty much everybody, and they fell off a cliff and 547 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 1: didn't even make the n I t Then this year, 548 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 1: you know, last year they went thirteen five and the 549 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 1: Big ten Big ten was down, They didn't get any 550 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,960 Speaker 1: inns a tournament, they returned everybody, and this year they've 551 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: kind of fallen off a cliff here over the past 552 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 1: month and a half. So the the two times they 553 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,679 Speaker 1: had good years, they didn't follow it up with with 554 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,119 Speaker 1: sustaining it. And that's the that's the true mark of 555 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,119 Speaker 1: a program, man. It was sustain it. A lot of 556 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:57,680 Speaker 1: people could have a cup of coffee up top, but 557 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,119 Speaker 1: can you sustain it? Yes? Also, if you return or 558 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 1: guys like and I saw you tweet out something about 559 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: Penn State, who had played everybody tough, and I don't 560 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 1: know if they make a change there, but you know, like, look, 561 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 1: Penn State lost their best player, lost a couple others. 562 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 1: I mean, they're they're completely different team. Whereas the difference 563 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,680 Speaker 1: with with Tim and I think we both liked him 564 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,640 Speaker 1: and think he's a good coach. But the difference is 565 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: that returning the meat of your team. They've had these 566 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:26,120 Speaker 1: bizarre kind of failures the following season, which is which 567 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 1: is the the odd part. I'll let me follow up 568 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 1: with this. You know, I always thought that Dana would 569 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 1: only you know, Dana left for a like a week 570 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 1: to be Arkansas's head coach. I always thought Iowa, Iowa 571 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 1: was the other job, you know, because he's originally from there, 572 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 1: Iowa would be the job that he take. You know, 573 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: you had the organ thing. He took him to the 574 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 1: final four. But he just doesn't seem like an Oregon guy. 575 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 1: And he keeps having these one and done guys and 576 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 1: he doesn't really have the success he has with guys 577 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 1: are program guys in his program. Um. I'm just wondering 578 00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 1: if you think that that if if Dana would come 579 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:05,479 Speaker 1: home and coach the other team in Nebraska. Wouldn't surprise 580 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: me at all. Uh, it wouldn't surprise me at all. Now, 581 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: with that said, because that's always kind of been the thought, 582 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 1: I think there was there was some thought, um when 583 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 1: when Miles was hired, I mean, almost every single coaching 584 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,960 Speaker 1: change they've made over the past to three coaches, there 585 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: was always the chance that Dane Altman was going to 586 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 1: get the job. But he really never got a phone call. 587 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: But I was I was m seeing an event this 588 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:30,920 Speaker 1: summer where Kyle Korver and Dane Altman went into the 589 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: Craton Hall of Fame and I'm sitting there watching Coach 590 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 1: Altman speak to this, you know, room full of Craton people, 591 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 1: And there was this moment where I'm sitting there going, God, 592 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 1: would he do it? Would he would? Would he would 593 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 1: he go to the other side because Creton Nebraska, it's 594 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 1: a big rivalry in the state. Um. I do think 595 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 1: there's enough time removed from his time coaching in Omaha, 596 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 1: and and Craton's in a good place now they moved 597 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 1: to the Big East. I don't think the fan base 598 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 1: would necessarily feel ter double about it. And listen, Dane 599 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,960 Speaker 1: Altman is is born and raised Wilbur, Nebraska, and that's 600 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: that's a big red country. And I think he's a 601 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 1: guy as you said it. I mean, Oregon's the Organs, 602 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 1: the flashiest university in in the country, and Dane Altman 603 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 1: is the complete opposite of that. There is an element 604 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 1: of I totally agree with you. I mean, has the 605 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 1: guy ever warned anything other than a white button up 606 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,360 Speaker 1: dress shirt like he? I mean, the dude is everything 607 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 1: about Oregon is the complete opposite of of coach Altman 608 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 1: and so um, I think you know, his families from Nebraska, Um, 609 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 1: his wife's families from Nebraska. I think he always wants 610 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,520 Speaker 1: to retire in Nebraska. All his friends are like, there 611 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 1: are a lot of about there's a lot about the 612 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 1: taking the job outside of basketball that makes sense. And 613 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 1: then and then the basketball job, the basket is a 614 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:54,719 Speaker 1: lot better than he used to be. I mean it's 615 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 1: still a hard job, yes, but I mean he used 616 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: to play in a in a in a different building. 617 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,720 Speaker 1: Now he got an unbelievable facility, right and you know, 618 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,080 Speaker 1: his name credibility would buy him all the time he needs. 619 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 1: And plus if he doesn't end up happening, he retires 620 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 1: and rides off in the sunset. It does. You know, 621 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 1: I don't want to fire Tim again because he Mike 622 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,000 Speaker 1: Lewis is a dear friend of mine and I think 623 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 1: they're good. I think they're a great guy and good, 624 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 1: good people. But you know, this is kind of this 625 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 1: is this is the business and the nature and it's 626 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: when and by the way, it's when everybody listen to 627 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 1: this pod actually talks about, which is it's the weird 628 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:29,640 Speaker 1: thing about a lot of guys in the business, which 629 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 1: is they'll say, like I can't believe Goodman has his 630 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 1: hot seed or whatever, Like, hey, dude, the second I 631 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 1: text you, you're like, did you hear this job is 632 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 1: coming open? In that job's coming up? And like, well, 633 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 1: we're not allowed in the in the business to to 634 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 1: to to talk about it, right. I mean, it's the 635 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 1: thing about Nebraska, real quick about that job is a 636 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 1: lot of it is. However, first of all, I'm not 637 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:51,800 Speaker 1: sure have you been to the new arena. Have you 638 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: been to Pinnacle Bank and in a game there yet 639 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:55,640 Speaker 1: have seen it at all? No? I saw one as 640 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 1: being built. I did games when it's being built. You 641 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,880 Speaker 1: you know how he is there certain power conference jobs 642 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 1: where the arena is dead, it's half full, there's no 643 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 1: energy Nebraska, that it's been top ten nationally in attendance 644 00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: for the past couple of years. You would have no 645 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 1: idea when you're at a home game that Nebraska now 646 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: that Northwestern won a tournament game a couple of years ago, 647 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 1: that Nebraska is the only Power Conference school to never 648 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:23,600 Speaker 1: have won an in seate a tournament game. Based on 649 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,959 Speaker 1: the environment, like it's rocking in there, Doug, like it's packed, 650 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 1: and they still leave early like they used to. They 651 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:35,240 Speaker 1: always used to. Everybody and they and I don't know 652 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 1: what engineer built it this way or architect where everybody 653 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,719 Speaker 1: to leave you have to like walk down onto the 654 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 1: core under the court and like walk out. So it's 655 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:46,440 Speaker 1: like it looks bad on TV two because you can 656 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 1: see everybody kind of funneling down, but and it's all 657 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 1: the You know, you can look at that job and 658 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 1: be scared off and spooked by the lack of success 659 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: the coaches have had, but at the same time, you 660 00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 1: can look at it and go, man, all we gotta 661 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:00,840 Speaker 1: do is get to the tournament and if we win 662 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 1: a game, they're going to build a statue of me 663 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 1: outside of this brand new arena because you are instantly 664 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 1: you I mean, if they if Nebraska goes to termament 665 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 1: wins a game, it's the best season in Nebraska basketball history. 666 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 1: And when that's the at least initial bar of things 667 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 1: that that's that's the one thing about you know, whether 668 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 1: it's the u c L A job or whatever, like 669 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,600 Speaker 1: the expectations or something, you always got to take into consideration. 670 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 1: We take a job, and with Nebraska, that bar is 671 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:33,760 Speaker 1: not necessarily too hot. Um Marcatte is the Villanova? How 672 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 1: goes Marquette? What Wouldjoe actually asked me this question, and 673 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,960 Speaker 1: so I think he downloads the podcast. How do you 674 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:47,120 Speaker 1: think they're? I think they're I think I think there 675 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 1: are a team that that is is I'm gonna need 676 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 1: the right matchup. I think just like and you can 677 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 1: say that about a lot of teams, but I think 678 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 1: the really good teams are kind of match up proof, 679 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:01,720 Speaker 1: if that makes sense. Not how many? How many teams 680 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 1: are there that are that our matchup proof? This year? Though? Yeah, 681 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,960 Speaker 1: that's true. I mean, I think, uh, my thing is, 682 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 1: I think I feel like they're a guard away, like 683 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,320 Speaker 1: if Kovien McEwen was was eligible this year, Like I 684 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,319 Speaker 1: don't think he's last year at Utah status as good 685 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 1: as what his reputation will be leading into Marquette next year. 686 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,399 Speaker 1: But they had somebody else other than Marcus who could 687 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 1: handle the ball, who could make a couple of plays, right, 688 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,440 Speaker 1: and and like, look, the Houser Boys are awesome, awesome, 689 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 1: and I love you talking about you know, succeeding in 690 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:34,359 Speaker 1: your roles, whether it's uh siakum or or THEO John, Like, 691 00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 1: those guys have improved, but they also totally accept, embrace 692 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,719 Speaker 1: and thrive within their roles. But it's it's kind of like, look, 693 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,759 Speaker 1: Marcus Howard, they run everything for him, and then the 694 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:45,839 Speaker 1: Houser Boys can post, they can shoot, and they can 695 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 1: play off him, but it feels like they need one 696 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:50,560 Speaker 1: more guy to handle the ball and they just don't 697 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:54,760 Speaker 1: have that. Yeah, I think, you know, Adams has gotten better, 698 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 1: but he's still not an overly dynamic guy creating um. 699 00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 1: You know, he's a guy the probably needs to close out, 700 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:02,960 Speaker 1: you know, a kick close out to really go make 701 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,480 Speaker 1: a play, or you know, a weave to get a 702 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,759 Speaker 1: get downhill kind of a Look, I'm with you, and 703 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,400 Speaker 1: I've watched that Utah State transfer in practice. He was 704 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,399 Speaker 1: Miles Powell and Scout team and dude was cooking. So 705 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:16,959 Speaker 1: he's he's a he's a really good player. But i'd 706 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 1: degree I like Marquette. I mean because the other day 707 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:20,960 Speaker 1: Marcus Howard is I mean, you got the the fact 708 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:23,960 Speaker 1: that this dude can go for forty fifty an night, 709 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:26,719 Speaker 1: and you know they do have guys that It's not 710 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:30,239 Speaker 1: like you can just punk um, you can just play 711 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,040 Speaker 1: way like like with sen Hall, you can totally sell 712 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,040 Speaker 1: out to Miles Powell and they just don't have a 713 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,319 Speaker 1: ton of guys that can score. And the other dudes 714 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:39,600 Speaker 1: on the floor. What you mean you can't just give 715 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:43,120 Speaker 1: Joey Howser ten stand still threes. You know you're you. 716 00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 1: You can't give the you can't give those guys easy looks. 717 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,279 Speaker 1: But I'm with you. There is an element of they 718 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:53,200 Speaker 1: feel like they're a ball handler short. But I think 719 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:57,640 Speaker 1: they've really improved offensively. Um. I think they totally embrace 720 00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 1: who they are. And when you got a guy like Howard, 721 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,920 Speaker 1: I mean, anything's possible. And when they've they've beat good teams. 722 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,000 Speaker 1: I mean, Buffalo is a really good team. Howard went 723 00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 1: nuts in the second half, had forty in the second half. 724 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:11,319 Speaker 1: They beat a Kansas State team who, as you know, 725 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:13,879 Speaker 1: is I mean, that's a bunch of grown men. Defensively, 726 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,840 Speaker 1: that that Howard torched like they are, They're a team 727 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,399 Speaker 1: that I don't I don't love to make a deep run, 728 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 1: but it also wouldn't stun me because they got the 729 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,360 Speaker 1: stud and Howard Um tonight at the time that's recording, 730 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,319 Speaker 1: you're gonna see you're gonna call old Dominion against uh 731 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,800 Speaker 1: U T san Antonio. And I've seen both in person. 732 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 1: I've done some CUSA games and the U t ESA 733 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 1: guards Keaton Wallace and Javon Jackson do their fun. They 734 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 1: combined average like forty four points the game. O d 735 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,120 Speaker 1: U is really good defensively. B J. Stiff is their stud. 736 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:49,600 Speaker 1: Of course, his dad, his dad, Bryant's on the staff, 737 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:52,879 Speaker 1: played for Jeff Jones at at Virginia. It's a little 738 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:54,600 Speaker 1: bit it's kind of a little bit weird, right, but 739 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,759 Speaker 1: that both brothers and the dad played played for the 740 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 1: coach like and he doesn't. Maybe it's because as I 741 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,040 Speaker 1: was recruited by Jeff that I don't feel like they're 742 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,160 Speaker 1: an he's that old. But I guess I guess he 743 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,160 Speaker 1: is that old. Um, this is the league that's produced 744 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:09,400 Speaker 1: teams that won n c A tournament games. Really one 745 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,000 Speaker 1: team that's one Na Turney games have passed a couple 746 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:15,360 Speaker 1: of years. Middle was had it rolling. Um, how is 747 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:20,560 Speaker 1: od you good enough to win a game in the tournament? Absolutely? 748 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:24,840 Speaker 1: I mean they're uh, they're they're they're big. Um, they're 749 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,960 Speaker 1: they're tough to play against because they control tempo and 750 00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:31,480 Speaker 1: they gotta you know, they got what you want in 751 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:34,080 Speaker 1: terms of what you chase as a as any program. 752 00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 1: They got two senior veteran guards that are thousand points 753 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:41,560 Speaker 1: scores that that aren't going to be afraid of any moment. 754 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,840 Speaker 1: And the thing that that makes them kind of unique 755 00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:48,960 Speaker 1: is would b J Stith anymore? It's hilarious to watch 756 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:53,200 Speaker 1: people try to defend like long curls and and defend 757 00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,439 Speaker 1: penn downs. People are that that's become the unique thing, 758 00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:00,400 Speaker 1: Like now everything is ball screen picking pop you know, 759 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,239 Speaker 1: spread it out old dominions unique in the sense that 760 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 1: they don't do some ball screen stuff with the Matt 761 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,759 Speaker 1: cab or their point guard, but they're really doing a 762 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:09,960 Speaker 1: lot of different things with stiff running them off of 763 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:14,439 Speaker 1: curls and pin downs and different things and that it's 764 00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:19,279 Speaker 1: it's tough for people to to to slow slow him down. 765 00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:20,799 Speaker 1: So I think they're good enough. I mean, they're they're 766 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:24,320 Speaker 1: outstanding defensively, Um, I think they're they're top ten nationally 767 00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:26,440 Speaker 1: in field goal percentage defense, which is something that I 768 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:28,719 Speaker 1: don't scoring defense. A lot of that has to do 769 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,080 Speaker 1: with your your tempo and your pace. I mean, at 770 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,440 Speaker 1: least I'm a field goal percentage defense guy. And so 771 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:35,239 Speaker 1: the fact they I mean, teams don't shoot a high 772 00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:37,920 Speaker 1: percentage on them. Um, yeah, I don't think they're a 773 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:39,920 Speaker 1: team that can necessarily make a run to the second weekend. 774 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:42,480 Speaker 1: But you know they're they're the They're the type of 775 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,719 Speaker 1: team that would be a tough one to see if 776 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:47,239 Speaker 1: you saw him in the first round because of their 777 00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:50,600 Speaker 1: tempo and their stole. Zion goes down with a spring knee, 778 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:55,520 Speaker 1: I'm guessing he's probably healthy. Um do you think he 779 00:38:55,520 --> 00:39:00,800 Speaker 1: should play? Man? Do? Now? And I know I'm preaching 780 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:02,839 Speaker 1: the choir, but sometimes you need to inquire to preach 781 00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,840 Speaker 1: do Like what are people talking about with with the 782 00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,719 Speaker 1: whole shut it down stuff? Like I don't I just 783 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:10,719 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess I don't wanna be disingenuous. Do 784 00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:13,439 Speaker 1: I understand that? Can I can? I can I wrap 785 00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:16,400 Speaker 1: my mind around the other side of of of it? 786 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:20,960 Speaker 1: I suppose, But this isn't like Christian McCaffrey sitting out 787 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:26,560 Speaker 1: of the Little Caesar's Ball. But you know I can 788 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:28,359 Speaker 1: wrap my mind around that, you know what I mean? Like, 789 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,319 Speaker 1: it's it's a game. It's not a championship. Um, you're 790 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,399 Speaker 1: a running back. It's like you're you're gonna get hit 791 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:39,279 Speaker 1: thirty times in a game like Zion Zion there, they're 792 00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:42,239 Speaker 1: still playing for a national championship. And I just do 793 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:43,959 Speaker 1: not want to live in a world where I'm gonna 794 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:46,080 Speaker 1: say out loud that I don't see any value in 795 00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:48,640 Speaker 1: that at all. Well just just a financi I'm sorry 796 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:50,200 Speaker 1: to instruct you, but just the idea of people like 797 00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:52,680 Speaker 1: there's no value. Yes there is. You win a national championship, 798 00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,920 Speaker 1: your your brand and likeness. I don't want to say 799 00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,760 Speaker 1: they double, but you become like we all think everybody 800 00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:01,759 Speaker 1: knows who Zion is. Like that's just not that, it's 801 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:04,480 Speaker 1: just they just don't. I mean, the power looked. I 802 00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:08,319 Speaker 1: worked at at CBS and for for Turner, and I've 803 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,040 Speaker 1: I've done it for ten years, done the n c A, 804 00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:13,560 Speaker 1: done all the college bast for ten years. And I 805 00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:15,400 Speaker 1: can tell you the first time I was on CBS, 806 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:17,840 Speaker 1: I would I go to the airport and be like, ah, 807 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:20,880 Speaker 1: I didn't know you'd you know, and like I didn't know, 808 00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:22,839 Speaker 1: I had no idea. Like what I mean, you don't 809 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,200 Speaker 1: annoy it because people watch the tournament that have never 810 00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:28,720 Speaker 1: watched basketball before. That's the beauty of the tournament. But anyway, 811 00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,200 Speaker 1: go ahead and then just just a competitive aspect to it, 812 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,520 Speaker 1: you know, yeah, I mean that's your I mean, and 813 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,879 Speaker 1: the if you're gonna use Zion with the other thing too. 814 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:41,600 Speaker 1: And there's the problem is people have taken a bunch 815 00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:44,799 Speaker 1: of different conversations and try to slam it into this one. 816 00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:47,359 Speaker 1: Zion should shut it down. It's like, okay, we can 817 00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:49,200 Speaker 1: have the one and done conversation, we can have the 818 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:53,319 Speaker 1: paid players conversation like this is not necessarily applicable to 819 00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:55,640 Speaker 1: all that I mean because because to me, the thing 820 00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:57,920 Speaker 1: if you if you want to use Diane Williamson as 821 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:00,719 Speaker 1: a reason why the one and done should go way, 822 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:03,640 Speaker 1: like that's dude, you got the wrong guy. He's, if anything, 823 00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 1: he's the argument for going to college because he was 824 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:09,360 Speaker 1: not the number one pick three months ago r J 825 00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:13,239 Speaker 1: Barrett was. Now Zion is the number one pick. He 826 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,240 Speaker 1: was a YouTube sensation that and and as you said, 827 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,279 Speaker 1: like not everybody knows who this dude was. Now he's 828 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:24,120 Speaker 1: getting seven three sixty five chatter on Fox, on ESPN 829 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,000 Speaker 1: and all these different networks. If he if if he 830 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,759 Speaker 1: wasn't playing for Duke and playing college basketball, that's not happening. Like, 831 00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:36,200 Speaker 1: so his profile has has increased even more so. I 832 00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:38,839 Speaker 1: just he's the example four going to college. And then 833 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:40,920 Speaker 1: the other thing I don't understand too, is that okay? 834 00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,719 Speaker 1: So he shuts it down? Right? Is he? Is he 835 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:46,080 Speaker 1: still gonna so? Is he He's still gonna play basketball, 836 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:50,160 Speaker 1: He's gonna gonna work out. I mean he like he could. 837 00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:52,280 Speaker 1: Like what I don't understand. I think Mike de Corsi 838 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:54,040 Speaker 1: wrote about this and it's it's spot on. It's like, 839 00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:56,279 Speaker 1: so are we saying that it's okay? Like if if 840 00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:59,760 Speaker 1: Zion Williamson gets hurt playing pick up on a random 841 00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:02,839 Speaker 1: set Sturday morning, that that's cool. But if he gets 842 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:06,919 Speaker 1: hurt playing NC State or whoever, like in in Cameron Indoor, 843 00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:10,319 Speaker 1: that's that's not okay. He's gonna continue to play basketball, 844 00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:12,880 Speaker 1: and there's a chance he's gonna get hurt. I just don't. 845 00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:15,399 Speaker 1: I don't, I don't. I don't get it at all. 846 00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:20,200 Speaker 1: I don't either, Hey man, enjoy uh, I enjoyed Virginia. UM, 847 00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:23,479 Speaker 1: it's cool arena there, and let's let's catch up again 848 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:25,920 Speaker 1: soon next time you're in l a beer on me 849 00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:27,879 Speaker 1: or coffee. I mean, I'm more a coffee guy, but 850 00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:30,000 Speaker 1: you know, I love you know, I love Omaha. I 851 00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:32,960 Speaker 1: may pop in and see yours and hoops will talk soon. 852 00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:35,840 Speaker 1: Hey man, I love the podcast. I'll listen to it 853 00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:37,560 Speaker 1: all the time. I really appreciate you having me on duck. 854 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:39,200 Speaker 1: I want to see if you listen to yourself that'll 855 00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:44,640 Speaker 1: be awkward. It will be all right. Last thing, in 856 00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:49,040 Speaker 1: terms of college basketball, I understand that they play in 857 00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:53,279 Speaker 1: the West Coast Conference. I fully get that they've been 858 00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:57,719 Speaker 1: so ridiculously dominant it points out. Actually I got two 859 00:42:57,719 --> 00:42:59,399 Speaker 1: things I want to get to with college basketball. First 860 00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:03,719 Speaker 1: is how do we get to this point where the 861 00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,399 Speaker 1: Pack twelve teams like Arizona State, who was actually good 862 00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:08,160 Speaker 1: in the non conference, did lose it own to Princeton 863 00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:12,560 Speaker 1: after beating Kansas like their success in conference and their 864 00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:17,520 Speaker 1: improvement somehow gets marginalized, as opposed to say St. Mary's, 865 00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:19,920 Speaker 1: which has played its way on the bubble, which hasn't 866 00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:23,400 Speaker 1: offered any sort of level of competitiveness with Gonzaga, like 867 00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:28,160 Speaker 1: beating up on average WCC teams. St Mary's don n 868 00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:31,120 Speaker 1: c A tournament team. I think Arizona State is. I 869 00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:34,640 Speaker 1: frankly think if errors if Oregon State can beat both 870 00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:38,200 Speaker 1: Arizona and Arizona State this week and then be at 871 00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:41,920 Speaker 1: least Washington State on the road, maybe they'll they lose 872 00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:43,719 Speaker 1: to Washington all right, so you go three and one 873 00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:45,399 Speaker 1: down the stretch and win a game in the PAC 874 00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:48,279 Speaker 1: twelve tournament. I think they're an n c A tournament team. 875 00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:51,160 Speaker 1: I'm looking at this bubble and these bottom teams, and 876 00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:53,760 Speaker 1: we're making excuses for teams that have had bad seasons 877 00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:57,560 Speaker 1: while they're playing great conferences. I agree, good conferences against 878 00:43:57,560 --> 00:43:59,840 Speaker 1: good conference schedules, but if you're two or three or 879 00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:04,080 Speaker 1: four games below five, sorry sorry, and then we're also 880 00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:08,279 Speaker 1: bearing the lead. I think Duke is outstanding, and I 881 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,360 Speaker 1: think some of their younger players have gotten better. But 882 00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:15,080 Speaker 1: Gonzaga beat them in Maui and Gonzaga has gotten better. 883 00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:20,160 Speaker 1: We keep searching for reasons to put Virginia ahead of Duke. Look, 884 00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:23,000 Speaker 1: if Zion Williamson's playing, Virginia is better than Duke, how 885 00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:25,160 Speaker 1: do I know? They played twice and they're better, and 886 00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:27,160 Speaker 1: I think they're going to continue to get better. I 887 00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:29,600 Speaker 1: still think Virginia is a Final Four caliber team, But 888 00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:31,840 Speaker 1: don't tell me that the second best team if Zion's 889 00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:35,200 Speaker 1: play the Zion's not playing Duke at win this thing. 890 00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:38,520 Speaker 1: Not with two scores, no way, and not enough shooting. 891 00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:41,160 Speaker 1: They might not have enough shooting anyway. If you don't 892 00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:45,160 Speaker 1: have Zion, you just don't have enough. But Gonzaga is 893 00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:48,960 Speaker 1: your best team. Start there, and then every other conversation 894 00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:50,960 Speaker 1: can take place. All right, this is gonna do it 895 00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:54,000 Speaker 1: for all ball. My thanks to Nick Ball. Thanks to 896 00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:58,640 Speaker 1: you for downloading, subscribing, and rating the show. Reminder listen 897 00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:01,440 Speaker 1: to our radio show daily three sixth Eastern time, twelve 898 00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:04,279 Speaker 1: or three Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the I 899 00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:07,360 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app. Until next time. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This 900 00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:08,080 Speaker 1: is All Ball