WEBVTT - Former Zelensky Aide Reflects on War in Ukraine 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:03.600 You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and 0:00:03.680 --> 0:00:08.320 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg radio. But Ukrainian 0:00:08.360 --> 0:00:11.399 President Zelinsky renewing his pledge to retake all of the 0:00:11.480 --> 0:00:15.880 Russian controlled territory after Ukraine's recent advances. Russia's pop star 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:20.680 Allah also joining her husband in protesting the wartelling social 0:00:20.720 --> 0:00:24.760 media followers that young Russian men were dying for illusory, 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:28.160 excuse me, purposes. So there's been a lot of support, obviously, 0:00:28.200 --> 0:00:31.400 and it looks like they have made some progress in 0:00:31.480 --> 0:00:34.080 terms of pushback. Yeah, we're really pleased to have with 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:38.120 us this afternoon Julia Mendel, former press secretary to Ukrainian 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:42.040 president of Vladimir, Voladimir Zalinski. She's also the author of 0:00:42.080 --> 0:00:44.880 the book the fight of our lives. My time was Zolensky, 0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:48.360 Ukraine's battle for democracy and what it means for the world. 0:00:48.680 --> 0:00:52.240 Julia joins US this afternoon via zoom from New York City. Julia, 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:55.520 good to have you with us. How are you, Carol Teams? 0:00:55.520 --> 0:00:57.600 Thank you for having me. Yeah, thank you so much 0:00:57.640 --> 0:01:00.600 for joining us. So, uh, talk a little bit about 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:03.920 when you were with President Zelinski because I think obviously 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:06.880 a lot of people learned to get to know him, 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:10.080 you know, since Russia's invasion of Ukraine, but you were 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:13.480 with him in the earlier part of his term. Well, 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:16.240 in my book the fight of our lives, I'm explaining 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:19.399 how a person called him of Zelenski turned from a 0:01:19.440 --> 0:01:23.160 comedian into a statesman and from the statesman into the 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:26.000 leader of the country in war. And in fact, I 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:29.039 must tell you that a lot of people really underestimated 0:01:29.120 --> 0:01:31.560 him for the reason that his image of a comedian 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:34.319 was so strong that it was the most popular. But 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:36.880 in fact he is the lawyer by education and he 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:40.400 built a very successful business in Ukraine, which is very 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:43.240 difficult to do in post Soviet country which is under 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:48.040 Russian pressure. I think that his leadership developed during those 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:52.000 uh work to build this business. At the same time, 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:54.920 I know him as a person who treats everything seriously, 0:01:55.040 --> 0:01:58.320 a very hard working person. That's why he drinks enormous 0:01:58.360 --> 0:02:02.040 cups of coffee, and also he is absolutely addicted to sports. 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:04.600 What I noticed and he was going to the gym 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:07.200 or for a jogging around the world and the TRIOPS, 0:02:07.600 --> 0:02:12.600 you know, starting his day before his uh political meetings 0:02:12.600 --> 0:02:17.079 from sports, and also he was even going jogging when 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:19.960 we were traveling to Don busn, and this is the 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:25.120 military zone, that uh, where Russia started its military actions 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:28.680 back in twenty fourteen. So it sounds like Uliah that 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:32.600 you're not surprised by the job he has done in 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:36.800 facing Russia as a result of their, you know, war 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:40.840 and their invasion of Ukraine. It sounds like um in 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:44.360 many ways. None of this surprises you. I mean, because 0:02:44.360 --> 0:02:46.720 I do think initially you're right, people thought of him 0:02:46.720 --> 0:02:49.560 as a comedian and what kind of world leader was 0:02:49.600 --> 0:02:51.120 he going to was he going to be, certainly in 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:54.480 the face of war? Um, I think you told us 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:56.000 a lot of things that kind of surprised us. What 0:02:56.120 --> 0:03:00.080 else might really surprise us about this individual? Well, this 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:05.400 is a very interesting question, because President Zelinski came to 0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:09.400 power promising to bring peace. You know, Russia first embaded 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:12.840 Ukraine back in twenty fourteen by annex in Ukrainian Peninsula 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:15.959 CRIMIA and by studying military actions in eastern region of 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:19.480 Don Bas. So Zelinski was traveling a lot to don 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:22.240 bass and I was traveling with him in the majority 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:25.880 of his trips, and I'm telling a lot of stories 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:29.239 from the strips, in my book, the fight of our lives, 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:32.440 and it was very important to observe him during those 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:36.520 trips because he never was actually afraid to go to 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:40.120 the front lines just to handshake with the soldiers, and 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:44.680 there were situations when Russians and pro Russian separatists were 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:50.240 trying to shout Ukrainian frontline uh positions and Zelinsky was 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:55.040 going uh there or returning back there, fighting his personal security. 0:03:55.080 --> 0:03:57.640 That did not allow the president to put his personal 0:03:57.680 --> 0:04:01.000 life under the threat. Zelenski was saying. As a leader, 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:03.200 I need to be with my people and I need 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:06.600 to show that I'm not afraid if they're they're fighting for, 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:11.000 you know, for Ukraine, for Ukraine's territory, for Ukraine's independence. 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:14.880 I just cannot run away, because he always repeats that 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:19.159 politics must serve people. That's why I was not surprised 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:21.760 that he stayed in Ukraine. I was actually surprised that 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:25.800 he was offered to live the country and this famous phrase, 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:30.039 phrase I need ammunition not to write. It's actually a 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:34.599 big performance of Ukrainian nature, but it's also a big 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:38.520 performance of his own leadership. I think Ukrainians, and I 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:41.520 don't think I saw that Ukrainians surprised in his president 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:44.680 and he made really one of the hugest contributions for 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:49.839 Ukraine staying independent country by uniting Ukrainians and by uniting 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:55.160 the whole civilized world to help Ukraine battle Russian invasion. 0:04:55.960 --> 0:04:58.960 I want to get right back to who we're talking with. Earlier, 0:04:59.160 --> 0:05:03.680 Juliam and a former press secretary to Ukraine President Zelinsky, 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:05.720 also the author of the new book the fight of 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:09.279 our lives. My time with Zelinsky Ukraine's battle for democracy 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:12.279 and what it means for the world. Julia, good to 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:14.039 have you with us, joining us, I should say, from 0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:16.240 New York City, so not too far from where we 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:18.520 are right now. Before the break, we spoke a lot 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:20.880 about your time with Zelinsky. What I want to hear 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:23.840 about is your time over the last nine months and 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:26.240 what it's been like living in Ukraine as it has 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:32.279 been under siege by Russia, with Russia's invasion of the country. Um, what, 0:05:32.279 --> 0:05:35.000 what is? What do people need to know about your experience? 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:39.320 Oh Wow, Tiam, thank you for this question and definitely 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:44.919 I thought war. I prioritized, prioritized the experience of war, 0:05:45.400 --> 0:05:48.520 of Russian invasion in my book. A lot to show 0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:51.279 the people why it is important to send with Ukraine 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:54.880 these days. I woke up, as many millions of Ukrainians, 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:59.000 to the sound of bombs and missiles that Russia was 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:03.520 sending to key and, Um, you know, I started calling 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:08.800 immediately to everyone, my family who is now inoccupied territory, 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:12.480 to my friends, learning that all the country was actually 0:06:12.600 --> 0:06:16.560 under this terrible shelling. And for us, as for Ukrainians, 0:06:16.680 --> 0:06:20.800 it is even now literally very difficult to believe in 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:23.720 the fact that somebody is some country it can, can 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:27.279 come to another independent country and repeat the horrors from 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:30.080 the past, which is put in doing right now, because 0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:32.760 he's repeating from the horrors from the World War Two, 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:37.520 from the artificial family period, from the genocidal practices. And 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:40.440 on one hand, the recent events that were happening in 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:45.039 my country, their successful counter offensives by Ukrainian army, they 0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:49.480 really bring a lot of Um celebration to Ukrainians because 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:51.960 we we were waiting for this and we believe in 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:56.040 Ukrainian army. On the other hand, my heart is bleeding 0:06:56.200 --> 0:06:58.960 for the reason of the news that we see there, 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:03.760 all those mass graves, all those torture cells, all those 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:09.279 dead kids. You know, females like terrorize society, and it's 0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:12.560 really very hard to imagine what we will reveal when 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:16.280 we do occupy all other Ukraine. There is one point too, 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:19.840 of million of Ukrainians that are right now situated under 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:24.080 Russian occupations, and that's why we actually ask the world 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:26.800 to stand with us as much as it's needed, because 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:30.239 if we speak that there is a big support of Ukraine, 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:32.760 then we need to say that it's never enough until 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:37.160 we stopped Russia. This is the battle between democracy and autocracy, 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:41.960 and democracy must be stronger, because we are dirtymined to 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:45.520 return our land and our people, but also we are 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:49.040 dirtymined to stand for democratic values, for the values that 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:53.640 Ukrainians are sharing with the Western world. In terms of 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:57.920 President Putin's intentions, what's the conversations they're on the ground 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:01.880 in Ukraine um when it comes to what an ultimate goal, 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:05.000 is an ultimate testainy destiny is? Is this it or 0:08:05.080 --> 0:08:08.560 is he looking to do even more? If you recall, 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:14.280 the first goal of UH Putin was actually to Um 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:18.960 capture all Ukraine, to conquer the country, to kill the 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:22.600 leader of the country and to establish his puppet Um, 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:25.360 and we see that he did not manage to achieve 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:29.000 this goal, because there was underestimation of the president and 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:34.960 underestimation of the Ukrainian people and our determination to to 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:38.360 to be in this country and to defend this country, Ukraine. 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:41.679 On the other hand, we are all, we were all 0:08:41.720 --> 0:08:45.800 today expecting his speech and we had the sources that 0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:49.199 we're saying that he was going to announce fast referenda. 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:55.240 We see that established Russian Putin's uh so called authorities 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:58.760 and occupied Ukraine. Now went out to say that we 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:02.199 will conduct referenda U and everybody understands that this is 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:05.679 going to be fake referender, as they already did back 0:09:05.800 --> 0:09:09.160 in twenty fourteen with the Ukrainian peninsula premia. So the 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:12.280 whole world went out saying that we are not going 0:09:12.320 --> 0:09:15.559 to recognize this referender. There was the United States, the 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:19.840 European Union countries and even Turkey, who said their frienda 0:09:19.880 --> 0:09:23.400 are fake, and that's why, you know, Putin did not 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:26.240 deliver his speech. So we are waiting for the next steps. 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:29.360 What is more important, the Russian army is being defend 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:32.680 defeated on the ground, and that's why they're show shooting 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:37.800 missiles to civilian infrastructure, heating, schools, kindergardens, medical facilities, but 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:42.840 also electricity and heating stations, and they threatened with nuclear disaster. 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:45.720 This is the most important thing. We are afraid that 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:50.160 Putin can use the latest measure, which is nuclear weapons. Well, 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:53.520 help us understand you, you've been on the ground there, 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:59.559 and how how this ends. I mean, I know it's 0:09:59.559 --> 0:10:01.679 fair to say that a lot of the world really 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:07.120 underestimated the country, the country's army and the president of Ukraine, 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:10.800 but but how do you see it ending? Well, that's 0:10:10.800 --> 0:10:13.360 an interesting question and definitely this is not the question 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:17.559 towards me, but the issue is that this is, Um, 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:19.679 the right a lot of steps that have been done 0:10:20.120 --> 0:10:25.840 to uh, actually help Ukrain win, uh, this fight for 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:29.440 for our, you know, land and for our values, and 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:33.080 what I see the apprainian leadership is going to do 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:37.160 is to regain as much as possible of Ukrainian territories 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:41.719 that Russia captured back after February twenty four. And then 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:43.679 the winter will come and the winter is going to 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:46.559 be very difficult for all the world, but for Ukrainians 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:49.280 it's going to be more difficult, worse than for others, 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:52.439 because Russia doesn't stop killing. But we believe that then 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:54.760 we will need to make decisions how to move forward. 0:10:54.880 --> 0:10:57.800 The latest president the lands case announcement was that he 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:03.040 doesn't exclude that probably Ukraine will need uh to return 0:11:03.120 --> 0:11:07.679 premier with the diplomatic means. So he probably probably believes 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:11.480 that we will need to use military actions where it's possible, 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:15.720 but if Russia agrees to leave the Ukrainian territory, then 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:20.360 we will negotiate the fate of premium. Um, Yuliah, what 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:22.920 are you hearing? We've just got about forty seconds here. 0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:27.400 I mean what's interesting and you know, unfortunately, because of 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:30.560 this war, we all looked at Ukraine and what it 0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:34.720 was doing in terms of, you know, the technology world 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:36.960 and information technology, and I think it's things we did 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:39.880 not know. Um, now what we see is the devastation. 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:43.080 Just got about thirty seconds left here. Um, the rebuild. 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:49.080 That will take years, yes, and were Ukrainians are already 0:11:49.200 --> 0:11:54.120 rebuilding the territories, the homes, the infrastructure, different facilities. We are, like, 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:57.240 very devoted people to this and we hope that we 0:11:57.280 --> 0:12:01.120 will start rebuilding in a more substantial way already when 0:12:01.240 --> 0:12:05.679 we can take Russian army to the closer to the borders. Right, 0:12:05.960 --> 0:12:08.400 of course, you know, we, we, we are looking forward 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:11.160 to this. Well, we look forward to UH and and 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:15.640 fingers cross that certainly this comes to a better outcome 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:18.520 ultimately and comes to a resolution sooner rather than later. 0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:21.600 Um Juliah. Thank you so much. Julia Mandel, former press 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:25.400 secretary to Ukrainian President Zelensky. Her book the fight of 0:12:25.400 --> 0:12:28.680 our lives, my time with Zelensky, Ukraine's battle for democracy 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:30.480 what it means for the world, came out in one 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:32.680 with the English version coming out this year.