1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: There were eight arrests in overnight raids in London and 2 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: Birmingham following yesterday's deadly terror attack outside the British Parliament 3 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:10,880 Speaker 1: committed by one British born suspect using a car and 4 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: a knife. Prime Minister Theresa May told Parliament today that 5 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:19,080 Speaker 1: British security services investigated the terrorists behind the attack years 6 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:23,240 Speaker 1: ago due to concerns over his links to violent extremism. 7 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: He was a peripheral figure. The case is historic. He 8 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: was not part of the current intelligence picture. There was 9 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: no prior intelligence of his intent or of the plot. 10 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:39,560 Speaker 1: Police have identified the suspect as Khalid Massued, a fifty 11 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: two year old from Kent with convictions for violence dating 12 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: back to three His last conviction was in two thousand 13 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: three for possession of a knife. A full counter terrorism 14 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: investigation is under way joining us is Julia Ebner, senior 15 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: researcher at Quilliam of London based think tank that focuses 16 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: on counter extreme amisum Julia. A number of so called 17 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: lone wolf terrorists had drawn the attention of authorities at 18 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: some point before the attacks, and some say law enforcement 19 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 1: agency you should have more leeway to conduct surveillance and 20 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:18,119 Speaker 1: act on it, which may lead to issues with privacy 21 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:23,119 Speaker 1: among other things. Where do you stand on that? Yes, 22 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 1: so I think Um, it's true that there has certainly 23 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: been a trend moving away from these coordinated attacks that 24 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:32,400 Speaker 1: we knew from Alglida, and especially now that I should 25 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: is losing ground UH in Syria and Iraq, it has 26 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:40,399 Speaker 1: shifted its strategy towards the more UH in inspiring self 27 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: starter attacks, which are of course a lot harder to 28 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:46,319 Speaker 1: detect and prevent. And I think the British intelligence and 29 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 1: security forces have done a tremendous job in preventing dozens 30 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: of attacks in the last year. But of course in 31 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: this it is very hard to even words to survellance 32 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: measures in place, and with constant monitoring of over three 33 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: thousand people in the view KAY who are at risk 34 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 1: of stating attacks, it's very hard for them to UH 35 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: to keep an eye on all of them, Julia, Up 36 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: until now, the UK has been spared of this kind 37 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: of attack, even though they have happened on the continent. 38 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: Was it just a matter of time before this happened 39 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 1: in the UK? Or does this attack tell us something 40 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: new about the state of Britain. Britain's exposure to the 41 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 1: sort of attack. Yes, Unfortunately, I think it was just 42 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 1: a matter of time because of course these these kind 43 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:36,919 Speaker 1: of no tech but high impact attacks like using a 44 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: truck or using weapons such as a knife, is something 45 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: that can almost not be prevented. And um, as I said, 46 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 1: since there was little all the men was known to 47 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: the security forces UH the terrorist attacker it was, it 48 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: was not possible for the security services to UH. They 49 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: have to prioritize at some point. So I think um 50 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 1: it takes twenty to twenty five people per per individual 51 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:05,799 Speaker 1: that they have to monitor twenty four seven so um 52 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 1: M I five only has limited capacity to to monitor 53 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 1: all the individuals in the UK that are at risk 54 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: of radicalization. So, Julia, are there any answers, any possible 55 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: avenues to stop this or curtail it? I think because 56 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 1: it is impossible for the security forces and for the 57 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: intelligence forces to do it by themselves, we have to 58 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 1: take a more civil society that approach to this, and 59 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 1: this means working closer with front line workers, but also 60 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 1: heating some of the profound community divisions that have arisen 61 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: in the last years and in fact some of the 62 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 1: radicalization hotbed for is limited extremism are the same hotbeds 63 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: that have also given birth to a lot of far 64 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: right movements. So they're in a way far right. And 65 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: isn't this extremist of feeding off each other's rhetoric and 66 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: they're helping each other to recruit new people to there 67 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 1: for their violent causes, Juliet, We're in this era where 68 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 1: countries are closing themselves off, even from countries that used 69 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 1: to be allies. Is that affecting the international cooperation against 70 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: the sort of terror attack? Absolutely, especially now with Brexit. 71 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 1: I think one of the main discussion points will be 72 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: how to what extends the UK. There has been a 73 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: leader in counter terrorism efforts across Europe, it has its 74 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 1: intelligence services are better i think than than most of 75 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 1: your counter terrorism forces or intelligence services um. But of 76 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,480 Speaker 1: course not being at this at the same table automatically 77 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 1: and more after Brexit, not not being able to shape 78 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: the debate and more what have a big impact. Also 79 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:48,480 Speaker 1: indust regards I think there's there is and also security, 80 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 1: especially with security corporation, is a lot about trust and 81 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: of course some of the trust tests has gotten lost 82 00:04:55,880 --> 00:05:00,159 Speaker 1: in uh these emerging divisions on an institutional level, on 83 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: the European level, but on an international level. Really finally, 84 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 1: in about thirty seconds, Julia, what do you see as 85 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: the immediate repercussions of this attack? I think, um, what 86 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,040 Speaker 1: what is most important now? Because it's immediately after attacks 87 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: that the narrative is shaped. What is most important now 88 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 1: is for the United Kingdom to uh to stay united, 89 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: and for Great Britain too. That's the only way Great 90 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 1: Pritain you can remain great because what isn't extremist for 91 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: any form of terrorists are trying to achieve is widening 92 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 1: the rifts within our societies. So I do hope that 93 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:41,600 Speaker 1: this one has happened, that in fact communities will stick 94 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 1: together and even close to them before and try to 95 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 1: give a response to this focus on solidarity rather than hatred. Well, 96 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: thank you for talking to us about this. That's Julia Ebner. 97 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 1: She's a senior researcher at kill Um, a London based 98 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 1: think tank.