1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:01,960 Speaker 1: This Day in History Class is a production of I 2 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey y'all, it's Eves again. Welcome to This 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: Day in History class. And today it's March, and today 4 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: I'm joined by Annie Reese Hi and Samantha mcphaghya of 5 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 1: stuff Mom Never told you. Thank you so much for 6 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:23,920 Speaker 1: having as. We're so excited to be here, very excited. 7 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 1: I'm excited y'all are here too. And if you listen 8 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: to stuff Mom never told you, which if you don't 9 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: already you should, You've probably hurt me over there talking 10 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:35,240 Speaker 1: about female first are women in history who did amazing things, 11 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: and we're the first to do those things. So I'm 12 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: super excited to be joined by them for this episode 13 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 1: about Anne Hutchinson, and they will kick it off and 14 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:47,840 Speaker 1: let us know about what happened today. So on this 15 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:51,160 Speaker 1: Day in History, Anne Hutchinson is who we're talking about. 16 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: I'm really excited. Was banished from Massachusetts Bay Colony and excommunicated. 17 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: She's considered by some as one of America's first feminists 18 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: after she rejected acceptable gender roles and challenged male authority 19 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: about preaching to both men and women as a spiritual 20 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 1: leader in Massachusetts. So right up, our alley. But okay, 21 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 1: let's step back a bit, because that's a lot. So. 22 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: Hutcheson was born in England and to Francis Marbury and 23 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: Bridget Dryden. She was raised in Lincolnshire and as she 24 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: grew up, her father, who was a dissident priest, taught 25 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:25,759 Speaker 1: her scripture and also taught her to question the teachings 26 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: of the Church of England, while her mother taught her 27 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:32,679 Speaker 1: about herbal medicines. And it was not common at this 28 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: time to get a formal education as a woman. She 29 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: didn't get one, but she did read pretty much whatever 30 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 1: she could get her hands on, and she was always 31 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: a thinker. One of her inspirations was a local vicar 32 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: named Reverend John Cotton, who is a huge player in 33 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: her story. But he eventually left her immediate sphere and 34 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 1: he joined a group of religious dissidents in North America, 35 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: where religious freedom was promised in sixteen thirty three. He 36 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: was out spoken in his criticism of the Protestant Church 37 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: of England, and because of that he was often suppressed. 38 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: So to get away from all that, he made the 39 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: journey to the New World. Okay, yes, so before we 40 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: get a little more into that, just a little more 41 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: history on Anne Hutchison. She married a well off merchant 42 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: from a good family named William Hudgison in sixteen twelve. 43 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: In between sixteen fourteen and sixteen thirty she had over 44 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: a dozen kids. She was busy. She was very busy, 45 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 1: just saying so. In sixteen thirty four, her family followed 46 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 1: Reverend Cotton and made the journey to the Massachusetts Bay Colony. 47 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:37,079 Speaker 1: When Hudgson was forty three. She used her training as 48 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:39,359 Speaker 1: a midwife to find work, and through this she met 49 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: and bonded with a lot of women, and she started 50 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: inviting some of them to her house to discuss Cotton's sermons. Rights. 51 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:48,519 Speaker 1: But those sound like I want to know what those 52 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 1: meetings were like, Like what was the environment like in 53 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: those meetings? She was very, very passionate, and she is 54 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:57,799 Speaker 1: what I would describe with my modern eyes as a spitfire. 55 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 1: She had a lot of opinions and she wanted to 56 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 1: share those opinions, and she was really critical of the 57 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: system in place, and they started critiquing some of that 58 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 1: Puritan belief system. In particular, Hutchinson did not agree with 59 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:18,080 Speaker 1: Puritanical beliefs around the Covenant of Works which essentially was 60 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 1: the belief that the path to salvation required following religious 61 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 1: laws and performing good works and thus kind of dependent 62 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: on the church and clergy. Hutchinson followed instead the Covenant 63 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: of Grace ideology, and this basically in a nutshell, meant 64 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: that salvation could be obtained through God's grace alone, and 65 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 1: as part of this, she didn't adhere to the Puritan 66 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: belief that good works were an act of God's grace. 67 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 1: She espoused that a direct personal relationship with God was 68 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 1: the only way to achieve salvation, which was a direct 69 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: threat to the current power structure of the church right 70 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: and not only that, they also criticised some of the 71 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 1: power structure of the colony, and of note the assumed 72 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: inferiority of women compared to men when it came to 73 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: God's laws. Her meetings became popular enough that word got 74 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 1: out about them and some men began attending. Some of 75 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 1: them were well known in the community, Some had upwards 76 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: of eight people in attendance, and this caught the attention 77 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: of local religious leaders who did not like Hutchinson's popularity 78 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: nor the interpretations they felt she was a challenge to 79 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: their authority. Obviously, she was basically cutting out the middlemen, 80 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:34,279 Speaker 1: and middlemen is actually because right, exactly. I just want 81 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: to reiterate her meetings that were getting towards the end 82 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 1: of eighty followers. I was more than some churches were getting, right, 83 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 1: I was going to ask that it was like a 84 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:46,919 Speaker 1: big number back then, Yes, in particular in this town 85 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 1: she was in. And that's when people started, when men 86 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 1: started showing up at these meetings, right, and then when 87 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: they noticed that she was getting a better higher attendance 88 00:04:56,360 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: than some of the established churches. In six seven, Hutchinson 89 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: was tried for sedition and heresy, but at the heart 90 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,920 Speaker 1: of the matter, she was on trial for challenging established 91 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 1: gender roles by holding a place of authority over men 92 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: at her meetings by talking while they listened to the horror. 93 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 1: They also accused her of breaking the fifth Commandment, which 94 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: is honor thy parents. In total, she faced three charges 95 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: breaking that fifth commandment, defaming authorized ministers, and improperly holding 96 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 1: meetings in her home. The men in power afraid her 97 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:39,039 Speaker 1: actions would inspire other women to challenge masculine authority. Even 98 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: even her role model, Reverend Cotton, who she semi followed, 99 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:49,279 Speaker 1: uh he turned against her a story of betrayal of love. Yes, 100 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:54,160 Speaker 1: he labeled her meetings as quote promiscuous and filthy coming 101 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,599 Speaker 1: together of men and women without distinction of marriage, and 102 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: your opinions fret like a gang and green and spread 103 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: like a leprosy, and will eat out the very bowels 104 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: of religion. So that's pretty harsh. That was really specific 105 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 1: to coming from your your role model, who you started 106 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 1: these meetings kind of talking about how awesome he wants. 107 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 1: So did she influence other women? Yes, she definitely had 108 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: a following of her own of people who completely agreed 109 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: with her and thought, yeah, why are we dependent on 110 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 1: the men to get salvation through God? Why does it 111 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 1: have to be via what they say? Um, A lot 112 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 1: of people had strong opinions about Hutchinson, right, Someone at 113 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: her child got right to this, saying Hutchison had quote 114 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:42,159 Speaker 1: rather been a husband than a wife, and a preacher 115 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: than a hearer, and a magistrate than a subject. Basically 116 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: she was assuming a masculine role, right, Right, So let's 117 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: talk about the child because the entire transcript exists, which 118 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: is excellent, As you know, you sometimes it's hard to 119 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: get these documents so helpful, and this was an excellent 120 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,039 Speaker 1: example of how she was a spitfire because these men 121 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 1: were just leveling these accusations at her and she just 122 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 1: always had an answer. So I know you love a 123 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: good quote on this show, Perfect, So we thought we 124 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: would do a very tame reenactment of a section of 125 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: this trial. And we're not going to get up all 126 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: up on the table and ready to go like we're 127 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: actually in trial. If the movement inspires you, yes you can, 128 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna getting into the role who okay? Perfect. 129 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: And this is from the examination of Mrs Anne Hutchison 130 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: at the court of Newton. So Governor Winthrop, the governor himself, 131 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 1: was a part of this, and he said, Mrs Hutchison, 132 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 1: you are called here as one of those that have 133 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 1: troubled the peace of the commonwealth, and the church is here. 134 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: You are known to be a woman that hath had 135 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 1: a great share in the promoting and divulging of those 136 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: opinions that are causes of this trouble. And you have 137 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: spoken diverse things, as we have been informed, very prejudicial 138 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: to the honor of the churches and ministers thereof. And 139 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 1: you have maintained a meeting and an assembly in your 140 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: house that hath been condemned by the General Assembly as 141 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 1: the thing not tolerable nor comely in the side of God, 142 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 1: nor fitting for your sex. And notwithstanding that was cried down, 143 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: you have continued the same. Therefore, we have thought good 144 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: to send for you to understand how things are. That 145 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 1: if you be in an erroneous way, we may reduce 146 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: you that so that you may become a profitable member 147 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: here among us. Otherwise, if you be obstinate in your course, 148 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: that then the court may take such course that you 149 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:42,319 Speaker 1: made trouble us. No further, Therefore, I would entreat you 150 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:44,719 Speaker 1: to express whether you do not hold an assent in 151 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: practice to those opinions and factions that have been handled 152 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 1: in court already, that is to say, whether you do 153 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 1: not justify Mr Wheelwright's sermon and the petition. And I'm 154 00:08:56,280 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: just imagining her face is being very still, it, yes, calm, 155 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: and saying I am called here to answer before you. 156 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: But I hear no things late my charge, which is 157 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 1: an excellent comeback. He's just like, here's all the things 158 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 1: you do going, And she's like, I didn't hear anything 159 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: like three points in a whole nineteen paragraphs to say 160 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: those three points and that's pretty indicative of how this 161 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: trial plays out, a big like long winded accusation and 162 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: her being like, no, I don't see right. So she 163 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: always had come back ready, and she did make one mistake. 164 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:36,079 Speaker 1: During the trial, Hutchison claimed that through direct revelation, God 165 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 1: granted her the right to interpret scriptures as she saw fit. 166 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: As you might imagine, that did not fly, not at all, 167 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 1: and it fits under the charge of defaming authorized ministers. 168 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 1: And she was excommunicated and banished as a quote woman 169 00:09:55,960 --> 00:10:01,079 Speaker 1: not fit for our society on March two, six eight. 170 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: For three months, she was imprisoned in something like house arressed. 171 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:07,719 Speaker 1: When she was once again bought before her judges to 172 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: ask if she had renounced her heretical beliefs, John Cotton, 173 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 1: her mentor, said to her, let me warn you, the 174 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: dishonor you have brought onto God by these unsound tenants 175 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: of yours is far greater than all the honor you 176 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: have brought to Him, And the evil of your opinions 177 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 1: doth outweigh all the good of your doings. Consider how 178 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:31,440 Speaker 1: many poor souls you have misled, how many women have 179 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:34,560 Speaker 1: you convinced that they don't need to depend on men? 180 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:41,079 Speaker 1: To get salvation. What a travesty. Indeed, to this, she responded, 181 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: as my sin hath been open. So I think it 182 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: needful to acknowledge how I came to fall into these errors. 183 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 1: Instead of looking upon myself, I looked at men. I 184 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: spake rashly and unadvisedly. I do not allow that is sanctioned, 185 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: the sighting of ministers, nor of the scriptures, nor anything 186 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 1: that is set up by God. Right, So in this 187 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: whole thing she's sustaining. Yes, I believe the same things, 188 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:03,839 Speaker 1: but I don't believe it in the same way. Yeah, 189 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: she really. It was a kind of non apology. She 190 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: sort of tried to get forgiveness so they wouldn't kick 191 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: her out, but at the same time didn't really back 192 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: away from the core of her right. It's very diplomatic 193 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: of her, she exactly. She did a very diplomatic apology, 194 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: and Reverend John Cotton sort of gave her this chance, said, 195 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:27,680 Speaker 1: you know, you just have to really apologize and say 196 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 1: you're wrong, and she looked at it and said, okay, 197 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: I still believe this, but you know you're doing your thing. Okay. 198 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: So she and her family, along with sixty other followers, 199 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: were relocated to the more liberal colony of Rhode Island, 200 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 1: which was founded by another religious thinker banished from the 201 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 1: Massachusetts colony, Roger Williams, who believed in total religious freedom, 202 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: meaning no one church should be supported by tax dollars, 203 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 1: and that it was wrong to take lands from Native Americans. 204 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,960 Speaker 1: What and the ideas got him banished because how dare 205 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 1: he um? He purchased the land from a Native American 206 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: tribe to found Rhode Island. The stress of this whole 207 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: thing perhaps attributed to a still birth and Hudgesson had 208 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 1: soon after they arrived to Rhode Island, and the rumors 209 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: that she'd given birth to a quote monster birth which 210 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:23,840 Speaker 1: were really awful. After her husband died in sixteen forty two, 211 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 1: the family moved again to what is now New York. 212 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: A year later, in sixteen forty three, a Native American massacre, 213 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 1: possibly provoked by the Puritans or in response to white 214 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: people taking their land, claimed the lives of all the 215 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: family members but one daughter in the Hutchinson family. Some 216 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:43,680 Speaker 1: from Massachusetts colony viewed this as divine justice, retribution from God. 217 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: Reverend Thomas Weld wrote of her death quote and therefore 218 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 1: God's hand is the more apparently seeing her in to 219 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: pick out this wolful woman, to make her and those 220 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:56,079 Speaker 1: belonging to her an unheard of heavy example of their 221 00:12:56,080 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 1: cruelty above all others. Okay, So she died in sixteen three, 222 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:03,560 Speaker 1: so there was about five years or so between the 223 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 1: time she was excommunicated and when she died, and they 224 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 1: held that animosity for her, like that same vehement animosity 225 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:13,320 Speaker 1: for her that whole time, where they were like, I'm 226 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:17,320 Speaker 1: so glad that she died. I think that retribution that 227 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 1: might be part of the Puritan way. And I say 228 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:23,680 Speaker 1: that non judgmentally, but I feel like a spite is 229 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: a big part of yeah, certain belief system. Right, It's 230 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 1: like what you you got what was coming for you? Right? 231 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: You angered God and all these religious men. Therefore here 232 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:39,959 Speaker 1: is your just deserts righteous retribution. Yep, God striking you down. 233 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: And Governor went up from earlier after her death described 234 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: her as an American Jezebel. So yes, still a grudge, 235 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:54,559 Speaker 1: still some anger, some hurt feelings. Perhaps. She is sometimes 236 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: referred to as the mother of the Antinomian Conspiracy, which 237 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:02,679 Speaker 1: took place from sixty six to six Massachusetts Bay Colony, 238 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: and really, in a nutshell, was essentially this whole thing, 239 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: the Covenant of works, Covenant of grace. It was one 240 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 1: of the first and most severe theological schisms in New England. 241 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:16,319 Speaker 1: In the wake of her trial and the wake of 242 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: Ann Hutcherson's trial, to prevent any future similar incidents, the 243 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 1: colony put all all of this money into training theologians 244 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: and ministers, all men, of course, And one of the 245 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: institutions born out of this was Harvard. Oh interesting, yes, 246 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 1: And I read an article on Harvard's blog about how 247 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: she's sometimes seen as the mother of Harvard. Does Harvard 248 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 1: itself the university support that view of her as a 249 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 1: mother or is it just kind of like women in 250 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 1: this day and age who support her as that? Well? 251 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 1: I would love to hear from listeners from the What 252 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 1: I ascertained from this blog post is sort of a 253 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 1: new acceptance of her. Previously it was sort of the 254 00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 1: opposite as forget about her, pretend didn't happen. Right, So, 255 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: I think it's probably a pretty well known fact, but 256 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 1: if anyone wants to write in, we would love to know, 257 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: right So, only I think it was three and a 258 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: half centuries later. It only took me a half centuries. 259 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 1: They finally she was officially pardoned by the governor of 260 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: Massachusetts at the time, Michael Ducacas. And she has a 261 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 1: road in a river named after her in New York. 262 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 1: So there's that, so you know, her legacy continues. Yeah, 263 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 1: it was some kind of recognition posthumously. But what happened, Yeah, 264 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: it just it just took a minute. But she is 265 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 1: definitely reading about her. To me, she seems like one 266 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: of the first American that's kind of our thing. We 267 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: always said religious freedom and having these thoughts and debates, 268 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 1: but because she was a woman doing it at the 269 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 1: time and was threatening this masculine authority, was very much 270 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: frightening a frightening prospects. Absolutely, and we again we hear 271 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 1: these stories about people making that journey and humming for 272 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 1: this religious freedom. And I am glad that, even though 273 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 1: it might not have turned out necessarily great for her, 274 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 1: I'm glad it there were these people that were fighting 275 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 1: this fight and thinking, you know what, I believe in 276 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 1: this way, challenging the status quo. Yeah, I think it's 277 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 1: a very relevant thing to talk about right now. Absolutely, 278 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: And I do have a t LDR version. I'm ready 279 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 1: for it. Basically, she was a woman who was a 280 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 1: thinker that believed that salvation was only available through God, 281 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 1: not through these man made church structures. She directly challenged 282 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: the patriarchal church's power. She preached her reliefs, gained quite 283 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 1: a following at a time when women were meant to 284 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: be quiet and subservient, and she was charged with harrisey 285 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 1: and excommunicated and banished because of it. There you go. 286 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 1: So if you don't want to hear you have to 287 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: get about Anne Hutchinson and just fast forward to this 288 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 1: point in time. You didn't want to re enactment a 289 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: very dramatic reading of us curious Court gays cool Well, 290 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 1: Anne Hutchinson is definitely a person that I think if 291 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:09,399 Speaker 1: you don't know about, you definitely should do a lot 292 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:11,679 Speaker 1: more research because I know we spoke about it for 293 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 1: only so many minutes, and the history of the whole 294 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:21,439 Speaker 1: Antonomia controversy and Anne Hutchinson's life herself, the colony, there 295 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: are so many ins and outs of that conversation that 296 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,400 Speaker 1: can be dug further into that. I think it's definitely 297 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,680 Speaker 1: worth while digging into it. Um. If you do, thank 298 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 1: you so much for bringing that to the table today. Um, 299 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 1: I think that it's so important to learn about figures 300 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: like her, and it allows us to broaden our perspectives 301 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:44,479 Speaker 1: of like what happened in history contextually at different points 302 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,440 Speaker 1: in time. And it also allows us to, like, I 303 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 1: don't know, I think in a way, and it gives 304 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 1: us avenues our pathways to figure out how we will 305 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 1: like to resist in our own ways. So yeah, so 306 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining me today. I hope 307 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 1: that y'all come back. I love you. Cool. Um, that's 308 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 1: all for today. Thank you, thank you. So we've reached 309 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 1: the end of this special episode and our producers Tandler 310 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 1: and Alexis forced me to say it every single time. 311 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 1: I'm Eve Steff Coote, and we all hope that you 312 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,199 Speaker 1: know a little bit more about history today than you 313 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: did yesterday. You have been listening to Annie and Samantha 314 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:28,159 Speaker 1: of the feminist podcast stuff Mom never told you. You 315 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: can find them on social media at stuff Mom never 316 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,680 Speaker 1: told you. You can find their podcast on Apple podcast 317 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 1: or anywhere else you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening 318 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 1: and I'll see you tomorrow. For more podcasts from I 319 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 1: Heeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app. Apple podcasts, or 320 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:50,439 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.