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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, production of My

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind.

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Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and

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Speaker 1: we're back again catching up on listener mail. It's been

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Speaker 1: a while, so this is the second of our recent

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Speaker 1: dives into the long gathering mail bag. That's right. And

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Speaker 1: you know, unfortunately, uh, Carney, our mail bot listen to

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Speaker 1: our discussion of deja vu and has now updated his

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Speaker 1: system to incorporate deja vu simulations. So we're having a

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Speaker 1: lot of trouble here because he thinks he keeps he

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Speaker 1: keeps pulling up emails mail from listeners that he thinks

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Speaker 1: that we have read before, so we have to get

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Speaker 1: them back out of his trash reevaluate them. Uh. It's

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Speaker 1: it's really touch and go. Yeah, there is no bigger

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Speaker 1: hassle than a robot in the time loop. I gotta

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Speaker 1: keep that arrow of time with him, that's right. But

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Speaker 1: I don't know, man, I think he'll maybe he's doing

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Speaker 1: well enough to get us through one more listener mail

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Speaker 1: here and then we'll start, you know, running some corrective

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Speaker 1: protocols on him, right diagnostics time, Carney, it's coming. All right, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe we should first take a look at this email

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Speaker 1: we got from Ming. Now this was in response to

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Speaker 1: our episode m I b or n I be I

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Speaker 1: think this was. Did we feature this from the vault recently?

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Speaker 1: I think we did. I believe we did. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So this episode UH concerned similarities underlying traditional paranormal experiences

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Speaker 1: that people attribute to supernatural forces like the devil, and

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Speaker 1: then you know, mid to late twentieth century experiences of

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Speaker 1: the so called men in black or what could be

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Speaker 1: the you know, what could be the common underlying psychology

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Speaker 1: and stuff like that with those two types of experiences.

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Speaker 1: So essentially, we're talking about the ways that UFO beliefs

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Speaker 1: might spring from the same wells as more traditional religious

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Speaker 1: or supernatural beliefs. And towards the end of the episode,

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Speaker 1: I think I wondered out loud if there was any

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Speaker 1: modern folklore in Chinese culture similar to the alien abduction

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Speaker 1: and men in black complex in in American culture. I

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Speaker 1: couldn't find any evidence of that, but I asked listeners

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Speaker 1: if they knew of anything like that, and so in response,

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Speaker 1: we got this great message from MINGH. So Ming says

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Speaker 1: Hi again. Robert and Joe, I hope you're both doing

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Speaker 1: well and staying safe inside during this crazy time. Your

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Speaker 1: playlists have been powering me through my work from home

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Speaker 1: days here in Toronto. I wanted to write in after

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Speaker 1: listening to the m I b Or n Ib episode again,

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Speaker 1: as your conversation about aliens might be and what it

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Speaker 1: would be like in other cultures reminded me of a

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Speaker 1: few fun thoughts. I'm not an ancient aliens person, but

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Speaker 1: I do like to speculate in the name of science

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Speaker 1: fiction and lore. Growing up Chinese, I've also fed off

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Speaker 1: of legends and myths of Asia. There's an idiom in

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Speaker 1: Chinese that literally translates to heavenly clothes have no seams,

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Speaker 1: but figuratively describes things that are perfect, flawless, and you know, seamless.

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Speaker 1: The story behind the idiom was written during the Five

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Speaker 1: Dynasties and relates that a poet napping outside one night

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Speaker 1: saw a heavenly figure descending from the skies. She was

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Speaker 1: beautiful and her clothes were glowing. She introduced herself as

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Speaker 1: the weaver girl from the myth of the cow Herd

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Speaker 1: and the Weaver Girl, and he noticed that her clothes

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Speaker 1: had no seams. When he asked about it, she simply

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Speaker 1: answered that clothes in heaven are made perfectly, do not

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Speaker 1: require stitching, and therefore have no seams. Going off of

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Speaker 1: the alien's idea, it's fun to imagine if she had

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Speaker 1: been an alien and was wearing some kind of seamless

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Speaker 1: body suit that aliens are often kitted out with in movies.

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Speaker 1: To further link it to aliens and space, the weaver

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Speaker 1: Girl is the Chinese name for the star Vega. The

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Speaker 1: cow herd is in Altair, which makes me wonder if

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Speaker 1: she'd meant she was from Vega instead of actually being

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Speaker 1: Vega or the Weaver Girl. Oh, like she was from Vega,

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Speaker 1: which is great because Vega is where the alien radio

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Speaker 1: signal comes from in Carl Sagan's contact. But back to

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Speaker 1: Ming's message, there's also another piece of lore about Chinese

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Speaker 1: legends that loosely relates to the theory of relativity. A

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Speaker 1: day in the heavens a year on Earth. Protagonists of

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Speaker 1: stories who were mortal or earthly to start with often

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Speaker 1: find out too late that once they ascend to the heavens,

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Speaker 1: a single day up in the sky means a year

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Speaker 1: has passed down on Earth, so the mortal family they

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Speaker 1: once had were all but gone by the time they've

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Speaker 1: managed to finish the task they needed to do up

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Speaker 1: in the heavens. I've read some discussion in Chinese about this.

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Speaker 1: Some people think that the concept came about because ancient

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Speaker 1: people understood that time passes differently depending on perception, but

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Speaker 1: a great many who are into sci fi or the

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Speaker 1: ancient alien truthers believe this is possible proof that an

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Speaker 1: ancient people understood the theory of relativity because someone somewhere

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Speaker 1: had experience with space travel. Um Anyway, these stories have

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Speaker 1: some very loose ties to things you spoke about in

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Speaker 1: the episode beings descended from the heavens or space, ancient aliens,

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Speaker 1: sleep related phenomena. So thank you both for reminding me

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Speaker 1: of these interesting, if stray thoughts. Thank you also for

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Speaker 1: pulling in threads from other cultures while discussing many of

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Speaker 1: your topics. It may seem a small act for you,

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Speaker 1: but it really enriches the podcast experience for people of

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Speaker 1: other cultures. Keep doing what you do and much love

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Speaker 1: from Toronto. Ming. Awesome, Well that was a wonderful listener, Maile.

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Speaker 1: You know, obviously we love to hear about uh, multicultural

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Speaker 1: examples of some of the topics we've discussed. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: this one was was a real treat because I guess

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Speaker 1: for me, when I'm hearing this, it reminds me a

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Speaker 1: lot of what I'm pretty sure we discussed in that

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Speaker 1: particular episode, the idea that like an incubus or succubus

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Speaker 1: in in various European traditions would have like a tailtale flaw,

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Speaker 1: like a goat feed or duck feed or something like that,

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Speaker 1: they would allow an individual to realize they were dealing

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Speaker 1: with something that is not quite human. And in a way,

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Speaker 1: this is a version of that, right, Instead of a flaw,

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Speaker 1: it is perfection, and like too much perfection is a

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Speaker 1: kind of a flaw in any sort of design that

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Speaker 1: is allowing an any human entity to pass as human. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I also really like this idea of ancient approximations

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Speaker 1: of relativity. Now, obviously I don't think it's very likely

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Speaker 1: that that ancient Chinese people had experience with aliens or

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Speaker 1: space travel, but I do think that relativity is one

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Speaker 1: of those interesting things where you can into it a

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Speaker 1: kind of uh general version of the theory just from experience,

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Speaker 1: subjective experience of life, right, Like, you don't actually know

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Speaker 1: that you know that the uh that mass or velocity

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Speaker 1: alters spacetime you know, or or makes you know, extends

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Speaker 1: or contracts spacetime, but you do at least know that

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Speaker 1: time doesn't always feel like it flows at the same rate. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you would, you would have some idea that uh that

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Speaker 1: you know, toiling in the soil uh seems to take

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Speaker 1: all day, whereas you know, um uh you know, in

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Speaker 1: an hour of pleasure seems to pass by in a

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Speaker 1: in a moment. So it seems reasonable that they would

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Speaker 1: they would be uh the basic human experience of of relativity,

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Speaker 1: that they would be able to draw on UH and

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Speaker 1: then work into some sort of you know, a mythological structure.

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Speaker 1: But I do also like this idea how there are

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Speaker 1: myths of people going up into the heavens and then

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Speaker 1: experiencing this time dilation. It reminds me of like the

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Speaker 1: scene in UH in Interstellar where they have to go

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Speaker 1: down to the planet that's very close to the black hole,

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Speaker 1: and the you know for them, they're down there for

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Speaker 1: like twenty minutes or whatever, but they come back to

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Speaker 1: their their their friend and colleague up in the space

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Speaker 1: station that's been orbiting it, and for him it's been

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Speaker 1: twenty years. Yeah. All right, Well, let's meals pull up

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Speaker 1: another bit of listener mail here. This one comes to

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Speaker 1: us from Jonathan. Jonathan writes, this moment in time is

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Speaker 1: one of those where we and hopefully you too, are

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Speaker 1: reaping what you've been sewing for years. Well that's a

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Speaker 1: strange statement to make. I don't know. I think it

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Speaker 1: sounds either hopeful or or or or potentially ominous. I

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Speaker 1: think he's being very nice, but yeah, that statement in

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Speaker 1: isolation sounds like a threat. Over many years, he continues, Uh,

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Speaker 1: I had a huge number of other listeners have grown

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Speaker 1: to trust stuff to bowl your mind to the extent

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Speaker 1: that when you do an episode on COVID nineteen that

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Speaker 1: we can depend not only on the factual information, some

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Speaker 1: of which may be available from other sources, but also

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Speaker 1: your suber mature, well considered advice, opinions, and evaluations. I

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Speaker 1: realized while I was listening to that particular episode, how

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Speaker 1: glad I am that you've earned my trust from years

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Speaker 1: of not only what you guys do, but how you

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Speaker 1: do it. The other thing we're reaping now is the

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Speaker 1: much needed reassurance of your future podcast to entertain and

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Speaker 1: forms stimulate, and provide a welcome retreat in sense of normalcy.

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Speaker 1: As you know, lots of us have grown to consider

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Speaker 1: you guys for virtual friends, and I'm sure all of

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Speaker 1: us appreciate hearing from you regularly as a kind of

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Speaker 1: social stimulation. On another subject, thanks especially for the two

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Speaker 1: parter on invertebrate emotions. Hope you can do a future

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Speaker 1: episode on planted intelligence. My own personal view is that

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Speaker 1: consciousness and its definition as awareness or responsibility is a

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Speaker 1: fundamental aspect of the universe and is a nearly infinite continuum.

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Speaker 1: So the question might be best put not as do

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Speaker 1: inverte of it's have emotion, but where on the gradient

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Speaker 1: of consciousness do they fall? Thanks a million, Jonathan, Oh well,

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Speaker 1: that that is far too kind, Jonathan. That we appreciate

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Speaker 1: hearing that we've earned your trust. Oh yeah, yeah, And

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Speaker 1: I mean certainly that's what we seek to do with

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Speaker 1: the with the show in general. I will just remind

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Speaker 1: everybody something about that COVID nineteen episode that we uh

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Speaker 1: that we also mentioned in that episode is that that

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Speaker 1: particular episode was very much um set in the time

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Speaker 1: of its recording, and it does not represent like the

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Speaker 1: current best information about COVID nineteen. Well, yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: as we talked about in the episode, that's why we

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Speaker 1: don't tend to do like eveloping news stories and stuff.

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Speaker 1: But one example that comes to mind that it was,

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Speaker 1: it was an extended discussion in the episode was was

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Speaker 1: about masks. Now. I remember at the time we were

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Speaker 1: going along with all of the public health advice that

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Speaker 1: we were reading, saying like, you know, normal people don't

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Speaker 1: need to go out and buy up masks and and

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Speaker 1: all that kind of thing, and that that seemed to

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Speaker 1: be like basically all of the expert messaging um. And

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Speaker 1: then there's kind of a shift over time, right where

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Speaker 1: clearly there were different values pulling intention in what kind

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Speaker 1: of messaging was going out to people about whether they

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Speaker 1: should wear masks or not. On one hand, there was

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Speaker 1: like a shortage of masks and you know, healthcare workers

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Speaker 1: needed them and stuff like that, so there was kind

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Speaker 1: of a discouraging of people to wear masks, uh, And

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Speaker 1: and a lot of that discouragement came along with the

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Speaker 1: opinions of many experts that like normal surgical masks are

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Speaker 1: not very likely to reduce your likelihood of catching the

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Speaker 1: disease through inhaling it. But there's been a shift over time,

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Speaker 1: and I think a quite reasonable one to saying, okay,

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Speaker 1: if masks supplies are available, it actually is good to

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Speaker 1: encourage people in general to wear masks, because especially it

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Speaker 1: helps prevent the spread of COVID nineteen. You know, if

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Speaker 1: you are infected with the coronavirus, and that you know,

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Speaker 1: I think people have made some very good cases since

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Speaker 1: then that even if you are unlikely to be infected,

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Speaker 1: you've been practicing social distancing and all that kind of stuff,

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Speaker 1: it's good for you to wear a mask when you

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Speaker 1: go out because, first of all, you know, it's still

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Speaker 1: possible that you're infected and you don't know it, and

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Speaker 1: this could help prevent you from spreading it. But second,

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Speaker 1: the more people wear masks, they'll more It reduces the

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Speaker 1: stigma on masks, so that you know, if somebody has

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Speaker 1: a higher likelihood of being infected, they're not going to

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Speaker 1: feel like, you know, the like they're getting dagger eyes

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Speaker 1: if they're out wearing a mask somewhere. Yeah, yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: um and and you know it's been noted too that

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Speaker 1: like when you don't even necessarily need to fall back

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Speaker 1: on some sort of like medical official mask, like just

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Speaker 1: some sort cloth covering for your your face, right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: better than nothing? Yeah. Uh and and and it's a

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Speaker 1: chance to to spruce up your personal fashion. Like if

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Speaker 1: you had told me a year ago that, you know,

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Speaker 1: a year in the future, my whole family WI would

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Speaker 1: be decked out with fancy handkerchiefs around our next when

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Speaker 1: we go out, you know, and uh um, without adding

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Speaker 1: the detail that we'd have to you know, we'd be

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Speaker 1: pulling them up onto our face. Um frequently, I would

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Speaker 1: have I would have laughed. But here I am wearing

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Speaker 1: a jaunty handkerchief from me Undy's. Uh and uh and

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Speaker 1: I don't know, it's it's it's kind of fun in

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Speaker 1: a way. Wait me Undy's really yes, by not a

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Speaker 1: paid plug though, I though I am a subscriber, because

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Speaker 1: they put out you know, lots of fun designs for underwear,

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Speaker 1: but they do other garments as well. And for a

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Speaker 1: long time they've been putting out these handkerchiefs. I don't

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Speaker 1: know how many people were buying them previously, but it

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Speaker 1: was suddenly like a really great option because it's like

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Speaker 1: stretchy material, it's and it's you know, has jazzy designs.

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Speaker 1: You can customize the color. So yeah, so we ordered up,

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Speaker 1: ordered up three of those. We also have some some

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Speaker 1: face masks that kind of go around the ears that

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Speaker 1: were custom made by a friend of ours who does

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Speaker 1: a lot of crafting and she's been making a whole

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Speaker 1: lot of different masks for people, I think, donating them

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Speaker 1: to places as well. That's great. Yeah, we got some

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Speaker 1: homemade masks from from crafty family members as well. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: I should mention the the one that my friend made

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Speaker 1: actually has um. It doesn't have Gammera on it, but

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Speaker 1: it has um. What was the flying creature gaos gios

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Speaker 1: something like, yeah, the radioactive bats that emit rays. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's on the face and face mask. I should take

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Speaker 1: a picture of that and uh and share that with

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Speaker 1: the discussion module on Facebook that for anybody who's not aware,

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Speaker 1: that's where that's the Facebook group for stuff to blow

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Speaker 1: your mind where you can go and interact with other listeners,

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Speaker 1: and then Joe and I sometimes pop in there as well. Well.

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Speaker 1: I would say the subject of Gammera and guios provides

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Speaker 1: a great segue to our next message, and this comes

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Speaker 1: from our listeners. Sebastien I assume that's Sebastian and not

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Speaker 1: Sebastian based on spelling, and that the fact that this

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Speaker 1: person is in Canada, but I'm not positive it's the

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Speaker 1: e n kind. But I'm sorry if I said that

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Speaker 1: wrong one way or another. Anyway, the message begins, Hey guys,

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Speaker 1: I just took a look through your catalog and realized

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Speaker 1: you've never done an episode on the topic of camp.

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Speaker 1: As an old fashioned gay man, camp is a huge

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Speaker 1: part of the bread and butter of the media I

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Speaker 1: prefer to consume. The topic itself may seem pretty literary,

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Speaker 1: but it does have interesting implications. There are two broad

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Speaker 1: definitions Susan Sontag's failed seriousness such as the Schwarzenegger Conan

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Speaker 1: movies or The First Evil Dead, or John waters definition

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Speaker 1: of camp being a celebration of poor taste, so not

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Speaker 1: only John Waters himself, but also the entire Trauma Studios catalog,

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Speaker 1: as well as most exploitation genre movies. Some things are both,

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Speaker 1: like American pro wrestling, and some things intend on being

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Speaker 1: camp but end up being accidentally really good. My favorite

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Speaker 1: example will always be Surf Nazis Must Die. Oh I

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Speaker 1: have not seen Surf Nazis Must die and I'm vaguely

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Speaker 1: familiar with it, but I haven't seen Is that a trauma?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I've never seen that one either, though

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Speaker 1: I have seen the I remember seeing the box cover

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Speaker 1: in the video store. Anyway, the email goes on. There's

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Speaker 1: also some interesting research on the topic. So camp is

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Speaker 1: often associated with working class intellectualism and minority populations, but

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Speaker 1: it also has a strange link in that people who

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Speaker 1: enjoy camp tend to also enjoy hard to watch, high

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Speaker 1: art cinema, like Tarkovsky or Yodarowski. Some camp is both

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Speaker 1: high art and in poor taste, like some select Lynch

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Speaker 1: or the Canadian punk director Bruce le Bruce, whose movie

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Speaker 1: Hustler White is on the very short list of movies

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Speaker 1: censored by Bravo and Showcase. Think of Kara, there's like

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Speaker 1: Richard Feynman when you think of a camp consumer, erudite,

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Speaker 1: but also somehow low brow, or at least that's the stereotype,

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Speaker 1: maybe the lads from Red Letter Media. There's also a

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Speaker 1: place for camp in music, with irreverent bands like The

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Speaker 1: Bonzo Dog Do Da Band or The Dead Milkman, as

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Speaker 1: well as literary camp, which is perhaps best captured in

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Speaker 1: harlequin romance or pulp fiction on the one hand, or

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Speaker 1: in the bizarro fiction genre on the other. Seriously, it

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Speaker 1: only takes an hour to read Shatton or Quake. I

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Speaker 1: don't know what that is. It sounds good. Gosh, I

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Speaker 1: never read it, but I remember when it came out

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Speaker 1: and talk of it was making the rounds. Yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: sure if you guys took an interest, you could easily

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Speaker 1: speak to it for an hour or more, as well

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Speaker 1: as engage in the philosophy and sociology of it. Either way,

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Speaker 1: keep up the good work. The Comma Muda episode is

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Speaker 1: uh so far my favorite, with the Library of Babel

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Speaker 1: being a close second. These two episodes actually did blow

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Speaker 1: my mind. Take care Sebastian from Canada, Oh wow, Well,

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Speaker 1: there's it sounds like Sebastian isn't into a lot of

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Speaker 1: the same things we are, that's for sure, because you know,

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Speaker 1: he maybe brings up like Jodarowski, for example, I would

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Speaker 1: argue that Jodarowski is there are plenty of moments where

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Speaker 1: Jodarowski is in poor taste, but it's also you know, legitimately,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of a lot to admire in there.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of you know, very inspired, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: fantastic artistic achievement, but it often doesn't seem like they're

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Speaker 1: as much of a filter there to keep one thing

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Speaker 1: from going through. Yeah, it's funny that he also mentions

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Speaker 1: Tarkovsky because I just recently watched my first Tarkovsky movie.

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Speaker 1: I watched Stalker. That's when I have not seen Oh man,

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Speaker 1: it's incredible, and I understand like some people are like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, the Tarkowsky movies are too slow. I

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Speaker 1: cannot deal with them. Uh, And it's true the pacing

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Speaker 1: is slow, but if you just allow yourself to commit

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Speaker 1: to the slow pace, Stalker at least is an InCred

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Speaker 1: a double work of art. It's I can hardly think

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Speaker 1: of another movie I've seen that comes anywhere close to it,

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Speaker 1: and in the kind of experience it creates, it's an

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Speaker 1: otherworldly experience. Nice. Yeah, I need to I need to

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Speaker 1: give that one of viewing. That would have been on

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Speaker 1: my list for a while. And I know they have

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Speaker 1: it a video drome, but um yeah, the main one,

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Speaker 1: my main my first experience with his work was the Sacrifice.

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Speaker 1: I think that was it, or the fine, not the

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Speaker 1: final sacrifice, but yes, The Sacrifice. This was a six

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Speaker 1: film that he put out, and it is extremely slow.

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Speaker 1: It has to do with a middle aged intellectual who

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Speaker 1: attempts to bargain with God to stop and impending nuclear holocaust.

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Speaker 1: And I seem to recall it all takes place in

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Speaker 1: this kind of uh you know, um isolated um island

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Speaker 1: or coastal environment. So it was very I remember thinking

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Speaker 1: I saw it in college on the big screen. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And I remember thinking this is beautiful, but also I

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Speaker 1: wonder when it will ever end. Not that I necessarily,

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Speaker 1: you know, I had my in the clock. I'm just like,

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Speaker 1: it's really it's really still going on, and I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I'd have no way of not really knowing how close

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Speaker 1: we are to the end here um, which is it's

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Speaker 1: kind of a beautiful feeling that's lost in the way

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Speaker 1: we will watch watch cinema today. I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: we generally know what the run time is gonna be.

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Speaker 1: We have it in our schedule. Uh. And it's certainly

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Speaker 1: if we're watching it on the small screen. You know,

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Speaker 1: we have a ticker there you you pause it and

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Speaker 1: you can see exactly how much time you have remaining. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: obviously movies today tend towards the tight and the formulaic

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Speaker 1: um and so it's it's incredibly refreshing to watch. So

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Speaker 1: Stalker is also it's kind of a science fiction movie

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Speaker 1: or very very uh low technology science fiction. There's there's

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Speaker 1: this vague idea that there's this zone where something has happened.

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Speaker 1: It's never been it's never explicitly spelled out, but the

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Speaker 1: Stalker is a character who leads people into this restricted

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Speaker 1: zone where the laws of reality don't quite seem to hold.

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Speaker 1: Oh man, I need to see that, and that's that's

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Speaker 1: that's that's gotta I gotta push that up on the list. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's gorgeous. Um, let's see. Well, yeah, what else It

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Speaker 1: was brought up in this email from Sebastian Um, well,

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Speaker 1: this certainly he brings up pro wrestling, American pro wrestling specifically,

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Speaker 1: that's a pretty obvious example. He brings up Lynch. Um, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is really there might be something, especially if they're

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Speaker 1: you know, there's been a fair amount written on it

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Speaker 1: over time. Camp could be something worth looking into. I agree,

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Speaker 1: um real quick having mentioned the Library of of Babel

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Speaker 1: episode that we recorded, brings to mind um Borhyes, I

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Speaker 1: have to say. Just the other day, I was reading

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Speaker 1: on my own. I was kind of reading about the

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Speaker 1: minotaur a bit, and I realized that I had never

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Speaker 1: read borhey short story The House of Asterion, which is

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Speaker 1: a like all of his works, super short. I think

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Speaker 1: it's like two and a half pages or something, but

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Speaker 1: it is the story of the minotaur in the Labyrinth

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Speaker 1: from the minotaurs point of view, and it is just beautiful. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's it's a gay you know. He's one of those

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Speaker 1: the master of the short story, where you read something

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Speaker 1: by Borhyes, and you're like, why would anyone ever write

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Speaker 1: anything longer than two and a half pages? Because this

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00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:12,159
Speaker 1: is perfect. Oh and by the way, I looked up

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Speaker 1: Surf Nazis Must Die and it is a trauma film.

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Speaker 1: Oh of course. So really that that came out with

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Speaker 1: the year after the Sacrifice, Okay, all right, possible that

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Speaker 1: maybe they were in the theater at the same time.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe, probably not. That's a double feature.

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Speaker 1: All right, we'll be right back, thank thank you, thank you.

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Speaker 1: All right, we're back. Okay. So this next email comes

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Speaker 1: to us from Matthew. So Matthew had a bunch of

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Speaker 1: great stuff to say, A big part of his email

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Speaker 1: was focused on response to our Hobbit biology episode. He

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Speaker 1: had this interesting Hobbit self domestication hypothesis. But it's a

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Speaker 1: long email, so I apologize Matthew. In the interest of time,

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Speaker 1: I'm skipping to the second half of the email where

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Speaker 1: he shares ideas in response to several different episodes, and

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Speaker 1: so one of them is also about Hobbit biology. Remember

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Speaker 1: a lot of what we talked about in the Hobbit

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Speaker 1: biology episode was about like Hobbit metabolism and caloric requirements. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know that they've got to eat so much. So

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Speaker 1: Matthew says, what if the incredibly high caloric requirements of

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Speaker 1: Hobbits were due to some mutation which reduced their ability

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Speaker 1: to absorb or utilize a particular nutrient like an essential

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Speaker 1: amino acid. In such case, they would have to eat

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Speaker 1: much more of foods rich in this nutrient. It probably

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Speaker 1: wouldn't go without general increase in caloric intake, which in

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Speaker 1: turn would prime selection for individuals with faster metabolism, because

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Speaker 1: others would suffer greatly from obesity and other consequences of

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Speaker 1: overeating and thus have their fitness substantially reduced. This could

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Speaker 1: happen in a food abundant area such as the Shire,

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Speaker 1: and if the initial population would be small enough to

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Speaker 1: allow the founder effect. Also, other more positive effects of

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Speaker 1: this mutation would make its revival in the gene pool

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Speaker 1: more likely. By the way, this was the explanation for

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Speaker 1: why Peter Watts vampires must eat humans. This is Peter

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Speaker 1: Watts vampires from the from the book blind Site. Matthew says,

427
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:17,639
Speaker 1: they cannot synthesize why protocaterine, a vital peptide which is

428
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,560
Speaker 1: unique to hominins. So the idea, yeah, they're in the story,

429
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:25,160
Speaker 1: was that these these plausibly biological vampires have to eat

430
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 1: humans because they need this nutrient that basically only exists

431
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 1: in apes like us. All right, so kind of a

432
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 1: Peter wattson read on the hobbit, right? Uh? Then a

433
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 1: second one. This one is related to the idea of

434
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:44,640
Speaker 1: plants developing intelligence. This has come up in other episodes

435
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,879
Speaker 1: like could you imagine other kingdoms of life? Not animals,

436
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 1: but maybe plants or fungi or whatever ever? Ever, over

437
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:55,120
Speaker 1: billions of years of evolution developing intelligence of their own.

438
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,879
Speaker 1: Matthew mentioned somebody named Isaac Arthur. He says, If you

439
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 1: don't know this guy, high recommend his YouTube channel. He

440
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,399
Speaker 1: mentioned in one of his episodes that it would be

441
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 1: more plausible for fun gui to develop intelligence than plants,

442
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 1: since they do not rely on a regular and perpetual

443
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 1: source of energy such as sunlight. If their source of

444
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 1: energy gets depleted, this may motivate them to search for

445
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,920
Speaker 1: another one, which would require some degree of mobility and, perhaps,

446
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: in a more complex and unpredictable environment, some kind of

447
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,400
Speaker 1: higher intelligence. I like this idea. All right, well, that's

448
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,360
Speaker 1: that's a pretty pretty cool take, ill admit. Third, now,

449
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 1: this one is in response to our episode of Invention,

450
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 1: where we talked about the invention of words and how

451
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 1: new words are formed. One of the things we talked

452
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:46,439
Speaker 1: about was back formation and false etymologies. Uh Matthew singles

453
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 1: out the word algorithm as an interesting example of a

454
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 1: word invented by back formation. I looked this up and

455
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:58,639
Speaker 1: this is extremely interesting. So apparently the word algorithm comes

456
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:04,360
Speaker 1: to English through several steps, beginning with the medieval Latin algorithmus,

457
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:09,120
Speaker 1: which is actually a botched transliteration of a proper name.

458
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 1: There was a medieval Persian polymath named Mohammed Ibben musa

459
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,919
Speaker 1: al Quarezmi, and when his works on mathematics were translated

460
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 1: into Latin, the name al QUAISMI got changed into Algorithmus,

461
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:28,359
Speaker 1: which became algorithm over time. Uh so this, this is

462
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 1: like a lost reference to an actual person's name. Very fascinating.

463
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,640
Speaker 1: And then finally Matthew brings up the subject of invertebrate emotions,

464
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,120
Speaker 1: which we did a two parter about, and he says,

465
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:41,680
Speaker 1: when you did it, I couldn't believe you didn't mention this.

466
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 1: And he makes reference to an article in the Guardian

467
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 1: where there's a study where basically they were giving M

468
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 1: d M A two octopuses um. And so Matthew says,

469
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,879
Speaker 1: when given m d M A, octopuses act similarly to

470
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 1: human users of M d M A, whose behavior under

471
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 1: its influence we would interpreted signs of kindness, greater openness

472
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 1: to fellow specimens, and desire for closure and intimacy. Uh

473
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,400
Speaker 1: And I looked this up. But apparently when you give

474
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 1: octopuses m d M A, a lot of their con

475
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:17,120
Speaker 1: specific aggressiveness decreases or vanishes. Normally, octopuses are not very

476
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 1: social and they're not very friendly to each other. When

477
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,159
Speaker 1: I'm one octopus comes on the other they often you know,

478
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 1: fight or try to eat each other or something. When

479
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 1: you give octopuses m D m A, apparently they're much

480
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,719
Speaker 1: more likely to to approach peacefully and sort of like

481
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:36,160
Speaker 1: extend arms toward one another. Mm hmmm interesting. I mean yeah,

482
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 1: because octopus octopuses are generally solitary creatures. This this brings

483
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 1: to mind, like the possibility like what if you had

484
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 1: something like uh, the monolith in two thousand one of

485
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 1: Space Odyssey, but instead of like uh imbuing surrounding organisms

486
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:57,879
Speaker 1: with with the knowledge of tool you sort of it

487
00:26:57,920 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 1: had kind of an M D m A effect on

488
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: that and and inspired them to to be more supportive

489
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 1: than uh um, you know, an accepting of each other.

490
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 1: I wonder what the the long term effects would that

491
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 1: would love? That would be for a species. Yeah, instead

492
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 1: of giving hominins, uh you know, like violent mechanical ingenuity,

493
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 1: it gives octopuses love. I bring you love. Or maybe

494
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:25,919
Speaker 1: they would have all these if they would just have

495
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:28,639
Speaker 1: been eaten by what were they leopards or jack I

496
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 1: can't remember jaguars in the in the movie. Oh yeah,

497
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 1: I think there's a leopard. Yeah, yeah, the leopard would

498
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: have just eaten all of them. Maybe it wouldn't have worked.

499
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 1: Maybe that was the first monolith that they sent down. Anyway,

500
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: Matthew finishes by saying thank you for all your work

501
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 1: and sorry for my English. I'm sure I've made at

502
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 1: least a few mistakes. No, Matthew, your English is great, um,

503
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 1: far better than my Polish. Right. I've been listening to

504
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow your mind and more recently Invention for

505
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 1: almost two years and dug through a lot of episodes

506
00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 1: to or thereabouts podcasts on my subscribe list come and go.

507
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 1: But since I discovered you, there probably wasn't a single

508
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 1: week when your voice didn't play in my earbuds. Best regards,

509
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 1: Matthew from Poland. Oh well, that was so sweet. What

510
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 1: a great email, Matthew. Yeah, that was good. Lots of

511
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 1: cool ideas in there. All right. Here's another bit of

512
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,439
Speaker 1: listener mail. This one comes to us from Lauren and

513
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 1: it's another Hobbit email. Hi, Robert and Joe love the

514
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 1: podcast and it's keeping me interested and motivated to learn

515
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 1: new things during these strange times. A quick note about

516
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,959
Speaker 1: dinner versus supper in your Biology of the Hobbit episodes.

517
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,120
Speaker 1: Since you both said you weren't sure of the difference.

518
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 1: It's a very modern thing to use these terms interchangeably.

519
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 1: But anyone who's read a lot of books set in

520
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 1: regency England, as I have, will know that one eight dinner,

521
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: probably around seven pm before one attended a ball or

522
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 1: evening's entertainment, and one eight supper a few hours later

523
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 1: during the ball, to keep up your energy for dancing

524
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 1: or after coming home from the theater. Very Tonish, you

525
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 1: of these words, and very British. So while the Hobbits

526
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: don't seem very aristocratic, they do seem very British, and

527
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 1: it's probably why Tolkien had been eating both dinner and

528
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 1: supper along with their other meals. Thanks for all you do, Lauren. Well,

529
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 1: wait where the Hobbits having to go out dancing? I

530
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 1: don't to eat dinner or eat supper to keep their

531
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 1: energy up. I don't remember a lot of dancing. Well,

532
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 1: they had festivals and celebrations, you know, so you know,

533
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 1: and certainly, if, especially if your bilbo, you might have

534
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 1: to entertain a lot of out of town guests for

535
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: an extended period of time. That's true. Well, thank you, Lauren,

536
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: I I appreciate that clarification, and then, on a very

537
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: similar subject, we got this next message from Samantha. Samantha says, hi, guys,

538
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 1: and your recent Biology of the Hobbit episode, you mused

539
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 1: on what the difference was between dinner and supper in

540
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 1: regards to the different meals enjoyed by Hobbits. While I

541
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: can't speak to the Hobbit lifestyle, I am in a

542
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,479
Speaker 1: relationship with a man who used to power lift, and

543
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: I can tell you that I've decided that the difference

544
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 1: is that dinner is the meal he eats with me,

545
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: and supper is the meal afterward that he eats in

546
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 1: bed before going. It's not so much a midnight snack

547
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 1: as a midnight entree anyway. Thanks for the amazing work

548
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 1: you guys do, and thanks for the extra episodes lately,

549
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 1: sam Well, I what I love about this is just

550
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: that it brings to mind the possibility of of powerlifter

551
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: Hobbits and that it's pretty great. Uh what a Hobbit

552
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 1: strong men look like? I want to see that. I mean,

553
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 1: I can kind of aren't we told it was the

554
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 1: hooks that were more adventurous. Maybe they were kind of

555
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 1: powerlifters in their own way. Oh, maybe. All right, here's

556
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 1: another one. This one comes to us from Anna. Hi,

557
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 1: Robert and Joe, I just finished listening to your episode

558
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 1: on Hobbits. This reminded me of how my dad used

559
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 1: to have a cat called frod Oh. The cat used

560
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 1: to go on long journeys in the car with him.

561
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 1: This got me thinking how cats have many of the

562
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 1: same characteristics as Hobbits, and she listed for us. They

563
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 1: like their home comforts. True. Uh, they can be very

564
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 1: adventurous when they want to be. They're very light on foot. Uh.

565
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 1: They are good at hiding and stealing things. They would

566
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 1: prefer to find a few people they like and only

567
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: hang around them. They have hair on their feet, They're small.

568
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 1: They like fish. They also really enjoy eating. I wonder

569
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 1: if anyone else has noticed these similarities, Anna, I find

570
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 1: no fault in this. No, the other sounds about right. Um.

571
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 1: As a cat owner, I can say my cat is

572
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 1: often like a Hobbit, except when she is hunting my

573
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 1: feet for sport in the house, in which case I

574
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 1: would say she's more like a goblin. This maybe she's

575
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 1: more like Sneagle uh or Gollum in this respect, So

576
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: she is like a Hobbit. But like a hobbit whose

577
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:53,959
Speaker 1: soul has been tarnished and perverted by the power of

578
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 1: the ring over time, she thinks your feet are nasty

579
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 1: tricksy humans is yeah, I think the ring in this

580
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 1: situation would be human domestication or you know, certainly being

581
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 1: being asked to live inside a house is kind of

582
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 1: the ring here, because that can only corrupt and and

583
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 1: alter their their psychology. Our cat is an indoor cat um,

584
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 1: but clearly she wants to go outside, and her behavior

585
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 1: is such that it ultimately, you know, evolutionarily spinking, it

586
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 1: belongs outside. But we've made this pact right that we're

587
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: going to keep her inside because she also does not

588
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: belong in the immediate vicinity. She doesn't belong out there

589
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 1: eating birds and whatnot, um, you know, and likewise she

590
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 1: would end up getting in fights with the local ferrells,

591
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 1: she'd be run off, or she'd be hit by a car.

592
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 1: Like there's you know, all these other considerations. But clearly

593
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 1: we're dealing with a very artificial environment, artificial situation that

594
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:54,239
Speaker 1: has been brought on by humans uh spreading themselves and

595
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 1: their environments around the world and nine rings to the

596
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: kings of cats who desire power of of all else,

597
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 1: but to something I know some people are gonna going

598
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: to want to remind us cats are only semi domesticated,

599
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 1: and again I do agree with that. They're they're clearly

600
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 1: uh not on the same level as the dog and

601
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: being uh you know, a part of our our our community.

602
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 1: No knock on them of course. Now who would the

603
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 1: dogs be in um uh? In Middle Earth? Oh? I

604
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 1: don't know. Who's loyal and true? Uh the only brew

605
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: for the brave and true. Maybe maybe they would be

606
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 1: the dwarves, you know, no, maybe, yeah, yeah, yeah, I

607
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 1: think yeah, it could be dwarves. Sometimes they dig too

608
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,719
Speaker 1: deep dogs, and that's something that shouldn't be brought up

609
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 1: to the surface. Dogs are all tom bomba dill. There's

610
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 1: just an entire species of bomba Dill's all right. So

611
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,239
Speaker 1: here's one that I didn't know if would you hear

612
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 1: anything back on? In our episode about the Bone Palace,

613
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 1: where we talked about stone age huts made out of

614
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 1: made out of mammoth bones, we ended up talking about

615
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 1: a house in Wyoming I believe that is made out

616
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 1: of purported at least to be made out of dinosaur

617
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 1: bones or dinosaur fossils, and we ended up saying like, hey,

618
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 1: do we have any listeners in Wyoming? I know it

619
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 1: is a sparsely populated place, but we heard from a couple.

620
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 1: I was delighted. So first of all, we heard from Louise,

621
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 1: who said, Hi, Robert and Joe. First of all, love

622
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 1: the podcast. I heard the Wyoming mentioned in the Bone

623
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 1: Palace episode. I thought it was pretty funny. As a

624
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 1: matter of fact, I listened to you guys from Casper, Wyoming,

625
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 1: and thought I might as well send an email about it.

626
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 1: I hope I'm not the only one listening from over here,

627
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 1: but you never know. Keep up the good work. Podcast

628
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,320
Speaker 1: is awesome, Louise. And then we also heard from Landon,

629
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:45,879
Speaker 1: who said, uh, Landon listens from Cheyenne, Wyoming, and if

630
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 1: and says if we ever do a show in Wyoming

631
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:52,800
Speaker 1: that that Landon will bring friends, so we'll keep you posted. Alright,

632
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 1: good enough? All right, here we have a listener mail

633
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 1: from Britain about our episodes on Deja Vu. Hey guys,

634
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 1: I just finished listening to your second episode on Deja Vu,

635
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,760
Speaker 1: which I found very interesting. You ask at one point

636
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 1: for listener experience with Deja Paradox feeling like you have

637
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:17,880
Speaker 1: experienced a paradox before. As you described it, I recognized

638
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:21,279
Speaker 1: it as a feeling I sometimes experienced during religious exercises

639
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 1: such as prayer, when I am contemplating the paradox is

640
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,439
Speaker 1: inherent in my faith. On rare occasions, I do get

641
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 1: a flash of something very much like deja vu. The

642
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 1: paradox I am meditating on seems to take on a

643
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:37,760
Speaker 1: new depth and become somehow more essentially contradictory, more paradoxical,

644
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 1: while simultaneously feeling powerfully familiar and deeply fundamentally necessary to

645
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 1: reality as it is. I have always known this paradox

646
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 1: to be real, but I am usually blind to it,

647
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 1: and it is only clear in little flashes like these.

648
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: Yet at the same time I am experiencing their depth

649
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,319
Speaker 1: in a way I know is entirely new. Obviously, I

650
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 1: am familiar with the surface paradox I am contemplating in

651
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 1: these times, so perhaps this isn't a perfect fit. But

652
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: the paradox I seem to uncover is always new to

653
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 1: me and entirely beyond my ability to describe. And that

654
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 1: is when I get a deja vou like experience. I

655
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 1: had never thought about it. In those terms before. But

656
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 1: the subjective experience is remarkably similar to my experience with

657
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 1: deja vous. I think this has happened maybe three times

658
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 1: in my life, but it's such a powerful experience, even

659
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 1: with how short it is, that I remember each one. Anyway,

660
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 1: now that I wrote all of all of that out,

661
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 1: I'm questioning whether this is truly deja paradox or not.

662
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,280
Speaker 1: But maybe you can decide if you think it counts.

663
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:40,320
Speaker 1: Thanks for all the work you put into the show.

664
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 1: I truly love exploring the weird and cool things of

665
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:47,239
Speaker 1: the universe with you both. Brittany. Oh, thanks Brittany. Yeah,

666
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 1: I found that really interesting because it got me thinking

667
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 1: about what is the like, what is supposed to be

668
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 1: happening in the religious practices that encourage you to contemplate

669
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: a paradox. I don't know how widespread this is, like

670
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 1: if there's something like this in almost every religion. The

671
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 1: main examples I can think of are in like Zen Buddhism,

672
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 1: which encourages the contemplation of paradoxes, and in Christianity. You know,

673
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,320
Speaker 1: one tradition of Christianity has a kind of um mystical

674
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,760
Speaker 1: flavor that encourages encourages you to think about the apparent

675
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 1: paradox of the trinity. You know that there can be

676
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 1: one being in three, how is that possible? And so forth.

677
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:26,919
Speaker 1: But I'm sure there are things like this and other

678
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 1: religions too. Yeah, and and as for whether this count

679
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 1: says deja paradox deja vu, I don't know. I'm a

680
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 1: kind of the mind that you know, deja vu when

681
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,839
Speaker 1: you feel it like it's it's undeniable. So if one

682
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 1: is inclined to interpret what is happening is deja vu,

683
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,800
Speaker 1: then it is probably deja vu or some related experience,

684
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: you know, like I would, I would lean into the

685
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 1: individual's experience of the thing. Yeah, deja vu is in

686
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 1: the sensation, not in any kind of like externally verifiable quality.

687
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's if it feels like deja vu, it's

688
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: deja vu. All right, Well, I we need to take

689
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 1: another break, but then we will be right back to

690
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:07,439
Speaker 1: round this out with a couple more emails. Thank thank

691
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 1: All right, we're back. Okay, So we got a bunch

692
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 1: of great mail about our episodes on MEDUSA. This first

693
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 1: message comes from Jim Jim in New Jersey, who's a

694
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 1: long time correspondent Jim says, Robert and Joe, your painted

695
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 1: eyes comment to protect cattle from lions in Medusa too

696
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 1: reminded me of this story about eyes watching those with

697
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 1: an honor system for office refreshments, and he links to

698
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 1: an uh to a piece by Freakonomics that's about a

699
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 1: study on whether you know you can basically use scarecrows

700
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 1: to affect honorable or honest behavior of humans in an

701
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 1: office setting. Um so to read a quote that he provides. Quote.

702
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 1: Melissa Bateson and colleagues at Newcastle University in the UK

703
00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 1: put up new price lists each week in their psychology

704
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 1: g department. Coffee room prices were unchanged, but each week

705
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 1: there was a photo copied picture at the top of

706
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:11,399
Speaker 1: the list, measuring fifteen by three cinameters of either flowers

707
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 1: or the eyes of real faces. The faces varied, but

708
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,720
Speaker 1: the eyes always looked directly at the observer. In weeks

709
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 1: with eyes on the list, staff paid two point seven

710
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:24,280
Speaker 1: six times as much for their drinks as in weeks

711
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 1: with flowers. Quote. Frankly, we were staggered by the size

712
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 1: of the effect. Gilbert Roberts, one of the researchers, told

713
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 1: New scientists. So yeah, it looks like here, you just

714
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:36,839
Speaker 1: put up a picture of eyes staring at somebody. Maybe.

715
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 1: I don't know if a Gorgonian image would work, but

716
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 1: any kind of like image of eyes looking right at

717
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 1: you this may have a psychological effect that discourages uh

718
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 1: sneaky or or stingy or dishonest behavior. All right, This

719
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:59,880
Speaker 1: one comes to us from Carolina. Carolina Rights. In the

720
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,280
Speaker 1: Head of the Medusa, Part two, you discuss how monster

721
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 1: faces an ancient art are depicted looking back at the observer.

722
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 1: It made me think of the tao Te, a monstrous

723
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 1: creature that frequently is depicted on Shang Dynasty ceremonial bronze vessels,

724
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 1: which looks kind of like a tiger with a bull's horns.

725
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 1: The Tauti image was too common to have been meaningless,

726
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,400
Speaker 1: but there are no extant records from the Shang dynasty

727
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 1: indicating what it signifies. After listening to the episode, it

728
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 1: crossed my mind that the tau Ti images might have

729
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 1: been apotropaic. It was a fascinating episode and left me

730
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 1: with a lot to think about. Thank you, best regards, Carolina.

731
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 1: I looked up the tao Te image and it is

732
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 1: very interesting. It's like a um It almost in some

733
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 1: ways looks kind of like ancient Meso American art with

734
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:53,839
Speaker 1: the some of some of the types of the way

735
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:56,840
Speaker 1: the lines come together to form the facial structure of

736
00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 1: the monster. I I really liked it. Yeah, yeah, this

737
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,360
Speaker 1: is pretty cool. I I don't think I was familiar

738
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 1: with this um this particular motif, but it's it's quite interesting.

739
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 1: Apparently this is also the name they give to the

740
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 1: monsters in that Great Wall movie. I never saw the movie,

741
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 1: but I remember that thing. It has like Matt Damon

742
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 1: in it or something where there's like monsters attacking the

743
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 1: Great Wall and and all these warriors have to fight

744
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 1: them off. The monsters are like these big, you know,

745
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 1: lizard dog frog type things, and I think they're supposed

746
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:30,759
Speaker 1: to be tau t. Yeah. I remember seeing the trailer front.

747
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 1: I'm really surprised I didn't see that one. On an

748
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:39,879
Speaker 1: airplane that looks like a good airplane viewing. Okay, one

749
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 1: more message about Medusa. This comes from Dan. Dan says,

750
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 1: hello again, Robert and Joe. I just finished listening to

751
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 1: part one of your Medusa episode. I greatly enjoyed it

752
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 1: and look forward to part two. I'm writing, do you

753
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 1: regarding movie depictions of Medusa from listening to the podcast

754
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 1: and watching your trailer talk videos on YouTube. WHOA, that's

755
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 1: a Blastphroem Yeah, I know you both love Hammer horror.

756
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 1: So I was wondering if you're familiar with The Gorgon,

757
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 1: a movie from nineteen sixty four starring Peter Cushing, the

758
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 1: Man with Cheekbones that could cut diamonds, and Christopher Lee.

759
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 1: I think that may be a reference to something we

760
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:19,799
Speaker 1: said about him in the past. It definitely is. It was.

761
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 1: I think it was possibly Uncanny Valley, where we were

762
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:27,879
Speaker 1: talking specifically about Peter Cushing as resurrected in the Star

763
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 1: Wars movie Rogue. Yeah. Yeah, it's on my mind because

764
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 1: I've just watched Rogue one again the other day as

765
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:38,839
Speaker 1: part of the family viewing of all the Star Wars movies. Dan,

766
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:41,239
Speaker 1: you're going deep in the stuff to blow your mind lore.

767
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,719
Speaker 1: This is crazy, um, So Dan goes on, I've never

768
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 1: seen the film talking about the Gorgon from nineteen sixty four,

769
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:49,799
Speaker 1: but I remember reading about it a long time ago,

770
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 1: and Jeff Roven's Encyclopedia of Monsters. I've included a link

771
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 1: to the trailer below. I hope you are safe and

772
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:58,920
Speaker 1: doing well under these current circumstances. May crom watch over

773
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 1: and protect both of your family stand. Oh well, that's

774
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 1: so sweet, Dan, and I went and I watched this trailer.

775
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:06,400
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for sharing. I did not know

776
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:08,440
Speaker 1: about this movie, and now I'm going to watch it

777
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 1: because not only does it not only is it Hammer

778
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 1: horror with the Gorgon and it, but also Christopher Lee

779
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:16,840
Speaker 1: is so scruffy looking in this movie. He's got this

780
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 1: bushy mustache and and and bushy hair. He looks extremely unkempt.

781
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 1: For for Christopher Lee. Yeah, like he looks more unkempt

782
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 1: in this film than he does when he's playing The

783
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:33,440
Speaker 1: Mummy or Frankenstein. But yeah, he looks. He looks pretty

784
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:35,879
Speaker 1: rough in this one. I have never seen it, but

785
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,360
Speaker 1: after this email came in, I did watch the trailer

786
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 1: and it looks like a lot of fun I mean

787
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 1: all the all the Hammer horror films look like a

788
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,359
Speaker 1: lot of fun um. And I guess I'd probably seen

789
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 1: the trailer before because and forgotten about it because I

790
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 1: have this this beloved disc. I love compilations of trailers,

791
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 1: and I have a Hammer horror films of comp disc

792
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 1: an official one from years back, and I still occasionally

793
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 1: put that on and I'll just let the let the

794
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 1: beautiful trailers roll over me. I'm gonna say, maybe I'm

795
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 1: gonna watch the Gorgon tonight. Yeah, it looks it looks fun.

796
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:10,839
Speaker 1: I scanned the other people involved, and there's no one

797
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 1: else on the IMDb that I'm especially familiar with. But

798
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:16,839
Speaker 1: you know, those films tended to be filled with a

799
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:20,440
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of very talented actors, even if

800
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 1: you you don't know who they are. It was directed

801
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:25,359
Speaker 1: by Terrence Fisher. I was just looking this up here. Yes,

802
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 1: Terrence Fisher directed the Hammer version of the Mummy that

803
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:33,399
Speaker 1: has Christopher Lee as the Mummy and also has Peter

804
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:35,720
Speaker 1: Cushing in it as the kind of like the bony

805
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:40,200
Speaker 1: faced hero. And uh and I've got a copy of

806
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 1: the Belgian version of the poster for this movie on

807
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:46,359
Speaker 1: the wall in my office, for the Mummy, where it's

808
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:51,280
Speaker 1: not called the Mummy, it's called Le Mala dixion de Feron. Yeah,

809
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 1: he also direct I mean he Transfisher directed a bunch

810
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 1: of of Hammer horror films. He also directed Frankenstein and

811
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 1: The Monster from Hell from seventy four, which has one

812
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:03,720
Speaker 1: of my favorite monster designs from any of these, because

813
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 1: it looks like it looks like a man eate that

814
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:08,799
Speaker 1: had the top of its head sewn back on and

815
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 1: a monster was played by David what is David pros

816
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 1: David Prouse, Uh, Darth Vader himself. Oh wow. And of

817
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:19,359
Speaker 1: course Peter Cushing was in it as Baron Frankenstein, so

818
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:24,800
Speaker 1: you had, you know, wonderful um uh star wars energy

819
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:26,880
Speaker 1: going on in that film as well. And this of

820
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:29,759
Speaker 1: course we're just we're pitching our next podcast, which will

821
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:33,720
Speaker 1: be Robert and Joe just talk about hammer horror movies

822
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:39,279
Speaker 1: for us for let's do it. Would anybody listen? I

823
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 1: don't know if if we had an audience for that,

824
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 1: I would absolutely do a hammer horror podcast. Oh yeah,

825
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:47,919
Speaker 1: there's so many, there's plenty to talk about. So yeah,

826
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 1: let the let the letter write in campaign begin. All right,

827
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 1: here's another one. This one comes to us from Tyler.

828
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 1: Tyler says, Hey, guys, just wanted to reach out and say, hey,

829
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 1: I'm listening into your episode on Cars and Driving where

830
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:05,360
Speaker 1: you talked about the knowledge that taxi drivers of yesteryear,

831
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:09,680
Speaker 1: specifically in London had to have and how that has

832
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 1: been shown to generate more gray matter in the brain.

833
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 1: Not sure if you've considered it, but I think bicycle

834
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 1: messengers could be a more current example of this. I

835
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:19,920
Speaker 1: worked as a bicycle messenger for three years in the city.

836
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:25,720
Speaker 1: Most messengers ride brakeless bicycles designed to be raced on velodromes.

837
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 1: It seems crazy, but they are simple machines that are

838
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 1: extremely durable and reliable. They give the user a lot

839
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:35,440
Speaker 1: of control and feedback. Messengers ride in dense and unpredictable

840
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 1: urban traffic, and like taxi drivers, have varying destinations around

841
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 1: the city throughout the day. They're often in this setting

842
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 1: for eight or more hours a day. On top of that,

843
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 1: they're breakless bikes can't stop very fast. As a result,

844
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 1: they end up developing incredible predictive and spatial awareness skills.

845
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:54,400
Speaker 1: It gets to the point that they can fairly accurately

846
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:57,800
Speaker 1: predict traffic aberrations and develop this sort of third eye

847
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:00,239
Speaker 1: where they know what's going to happen. Three I gets

848
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 1: into the future, I would imagine that researchers would find

849
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:06,319
Speaker 1: similar growth of gray matter in these subjects. Just thought

850
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 1: i'd share cheers. T that's interesting and scary. I I

851
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 1: admit I so I know how to ride a bike,

852
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:16,280
Speaker 1: but I have not done a lot of bicycle riding

853
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:18,800
Speaker 1: as an adult. And the idea of like cutting around

854
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 1: on a breakless bike in city traffic, it's just it

855
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 1: fills me with dread. Yeah. Yeah, I'm kind of in

856
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 1: the same boat. I haven't done a lot of bicycle riding,

857
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 1: and what I have done as an adult has been, um,

858
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:34,400
Speaker 1: has not been in a like a purely urban setting,

859
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:36,760
Speaker 1: Like it's not been on the streets of Atlanta or anything.

860
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 1: And um, And I have to say that though I

861
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:43,000
Speaker 1: certainly feel this desire, especially now, like maybe I need

862
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 1: to get a bike. Maybe now is the time to

863
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:47,279
Speaker 1: get a bike. Um. And it may be. But on

864
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:50,359
Speaker 1: the other hand, I am, you know, a little trepidacious

865
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 1: about getting out there on the streets, even in their

866
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 1: current form. Robert, you want to finish up with these

867
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:59,239
Speaker 1: emails about pointing. Yeah, let's get into pointing. We we

868
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:05,080
Speaker 1: had a wonderful old two partner on that. So this

869
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 1: one comes to us from Sophia. Hi, just listen to

870
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:09,799
Speaker 1: your two partner on pointing. Very intriguing stuff. What came

871
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:12,279
Speaker 1: to my mind regarding pointing and non human animals and

872
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:15,320
Speaker 1: curious animal communication in general, was the way that bees

873
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 1: communicate in a high using something called a waggle dance

874
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:21,800
Speaker 1: to tell each other where food water can be found.

875
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 1: With these movements, they can communicate the direction and distance

876
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 1: to the source with amazingly high precision. Thought you might

877
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 1: find it interesting. I love your show, keep up the

878
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 1: great work. Best regards, Sophia. Yeah, I don't know how

879
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:34,839
Speaker 1: I didn't think of this in the episode. Clearly this

880
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:38,319
Speaker 1: is an example of pointing right. It indicates directionality, and

881
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 1: it directs the attention of other animals to the target. Yeah.

882
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:44,239
Speaker 1: I don't know why I didn't think of this either.

883
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:47,360
Speaker 1: I was even fishing around a little bit for information

884
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 1: about pointing in uh in youth, social um insects, and

885
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:57,760
Speaker 1: uh Yeah, here we have an example. This next message

886
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:01,760
Speaker 1: comes from Gilead. Gilead says, Hi, Joe and Robert. First,

887
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:03,759
Speaker 1: I'd like to thank you for the wonderful podcast you

888
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 1: put out every week. It's a great way for me

889
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 1: to pass my commute and experience new stuff with your

890
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 1: really neat style of presenting. Thank you. Two points I

891
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,400
Speaker 1: thought you might find interesting in connection to your latest

892
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:17,719
Speaker 1: episode on pointing. First, the morning after I listened to

893
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 1: your podcast, I went to the supermarket for my weekly

894
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 1: purchase of goods, and since they rearranged it, I found

895
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 1: it difficult to find the stuff I usually buy. I

896
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 1: stopped by a worker to ask her where rice was,

897
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:31,359
Speaker 1: and she pointed out the direction. I noticed that she

898
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:34,439
Speaker 1: was turning her wrist at ninety degrees to the right,

899
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:37,320
Speaker 1: so the back of her hand was facing right instead

900
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 1: of up. It immediately clicked with all that you talked about.

901
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 1: As I was walking in the direction she indicated looking

902
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:46,360
Speaker 1: around to find the rice, I understood that she was

903
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:48,920
Speaker 1: trying to indicate that the rice was hidden behind a

904
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:51,439
Speaker 1: corner to the left. It was pretty neat to see

905
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 1: what you were talking about in real life action, right,

906
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 1: So I think what they're saying here is that the

907
00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 1: pointing of the hand, the hand turned so that it

908
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 1: was oriented so fingertip could have reached around to touch

909
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:06,040
Speaker 1: the rice. Yeah. But anyway, going on with the email,

910
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:08,200
Speaker 1: I don't think she was even aware that she did that,

911
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 1: Nor am I sure that I would have picked up

912
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 1: on it if I hadn't listened to your podcast. Second,

913
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:15,719
Speaker 1: growing Up in Israel in the eighties, there was only

914
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:19,240
Speaker 1: one public channel on TV. At the end of each day,

915
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:22,919
Speaker 1: before sounding the national anthem and ending the transmission. Yes,

916
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:25,279
Speaker 1: that's the way it was back then. They would read

917
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:28,760
Speaker 1: one verse from the Bible using the traditional yachd. Remember

918
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:30,279
Speaker 1: we brought that up in the episode. It was like

919
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:33,720
Speaker 1: a pointing device that has sometimes a little hand shape

920
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:36,000
Speaker 1: at the end of it that you can scan along

921
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:38,240
Speaker 1: on the torah with or scan along on the text,

922
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:41,360
Speaker 1: Gillyad continues. So I thought it might be interesting for

923
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:43,880
Speaker 1: you to see how that actually looked, since it was

924
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:46,560
Speaker 1: part of the TV experience of every kid at that time.

925
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:49,400
Speaker 1: Here's a link you can watch. I did watch the

926
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 1: link and it looks very interesting. I also like the

927
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:55,920
Speaker 1: way that as the reader is moving along the text

928
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:58,800
Speaker 1: with the odd and reading out loud, the cameras also

929
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:02,360
Speaker 1: slowly zooming out. I don't know exactly. It creates this

930
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:07,319
Speaker 1: very weird feeling of of kind of like power and revelation. Yes,

931
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:10,560
Speaker 1: I watched this as well. It's it's it's wonderful. I

932
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 1: would love to share it with everyone, but the title

933
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:16,920
Speaker 1: of the YouTube is in Hebrew and I am and

934
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:19,920
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how to how to share that. But

935
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:24,200
Speaker 1: but it's really interesting. I like it a lot. Yeah, anyway,

936
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 1: Gilliad finishes. Thanks again and keep up the great work

937
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:33,280
Speaker 1: all right. This one comes to us from Matt, Good Day, Robert,

938
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:34,920
Speaker 1: and Joe. I've written to you before in response from

939
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:36,880
Speaker 1: an episode of Invention, though not yet for stuff to

940
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 1: blow your mind. I thought I would send a note

941
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 1: regarding your most recent episode on pointing part two. Specifically,

942
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 1: you briefly discussed plant communication and whether there is any

943
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:47,759
Speaker 1: directional element to it. I farm with my family in

944
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:50,880
Speaker 1: southwestern Ontario, but my day gig is working as a

945
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:54,759
Speaker 1: freelance agriculture and science writer. The subject of plant communication,

946
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 1: specifically crop responses and communication in response to weeds, is

947
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:00,319
Speaker 1: the subject I've covered a number of times. It's not

948
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:02,440
Speaker 1: exactly the same subject as you're both discussed, but it

949
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 1: is related. University of Gelf research back in the nineteen

950
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:09,080
Speaker 1: eighties showed the presence of weeds early in the growing

951
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:14,240
Speaker 1: season caused clearly quantifiable drops in crop yields several bushels

952
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:16,880
Speaker 1: per day for corn, in fact, which is quite alarming

953
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:19,919
Speaker 1: for farmers. But the mechanism by which this happens has

954
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:23,359
Speaker 1: not been well understood until recently. Now we know these

955
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 1: yield drops are a direct result of crops detecting and

956
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:30,400
Speaker 1: communicating the presence of weeds even before seedlings emerged from

957
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:34,520
Speaker 1: the soil. That detection cue stress induced adaptive responses, which

958
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:38,120
Speaker 1: have a rapid and irreversible negative effect on yield. This

959
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:40,719
Speaker 1: is why early season weed control is so vital for

960
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:44,160
Speaker 1: the farm business. The detection process itself works as corn

961
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:47,799
Speaker 1: and soybeans registered light reflected from the far red end

962
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:51,480
Speaker 1: of the spectrum by weeds. Crops. Seedlings can even perform

963
00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:55,360
Speaker 1: this detection and responsive action before emerging from the ground,

964
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:59,360
Speaker 1: permanently altering their own morphology. The younger the plant, the

965
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:02,800
Speaker 1: more suscept double it is. Uh. And then he also

966
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:06,480
Speaker 1: shares the article that he's referencing. Anyway, I hope you

967
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 1: find the subject interesting as I did. And one last thing,

968
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 1: I would also like to reiterate how thankful I am

969
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:14,680
Speaker 1: to have such excellent, high quality audio content to consume

970
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:17,960
Speaker 1: during these strange days. Yes, that's the HP Lovecraft reference.

971
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:21,919
Speaker 1: When that stress beastie gets its teeth in, Sometimes it's

972
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:25,720
Speaker 1: the apparent conversations with virtual friends that make all the difference.

973
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 1: Thanks very much, for your work. Stay healthy and remember

974
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:31,439
Speaker 1: to have a good time as well. Matt. Thanks Matt.

975
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:34,480
Speaker 1: We were we weren't sure what the HP Lovecraft reference

976
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:36,880
Speaker 1: there is that the phrase strange days. I don't I

977
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:39,759
Speaker 1: don't don't know. I mean, certainly there's some plant shenanigans

978
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:44,880
Speaker 1: in uh at least one HP Lovecraft story. But uh um,

979
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:47,200
Speaker 1: this may be a way Homer. Of course, I'm always

980
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:50,319
Speaker 1: home now, so it's not not really, And I guess

981
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:52,400
Speaker 1: my way to another room. It will suddenly occur to

982
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:54,120
Speaker 1: me what he's referencing, and we'll have to bring it

983
00:53:54,200 --> 00:54:01,279
Speaker 1: up on another on another another episode. Alright, this next

984
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 1: message comes to us from Ilva, and this will be

985
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:08,319
Speaker 1: the last one. So Ilva says, Hello. While I've been

986
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:11,080
Speaker 1: an avid listener for nine years now, I've never quite

987
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:14,360
Speaker 1: felt like emailing you before. I just found today's episode

988
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:17,240
Speaker 1: on pointing a lot of fun, partly because I always

989
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 1: love stuff on communication, because I'm autistic and finer social

990
00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 1: skills often passed me by. I'm suddenly made aware of

991
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 1: all the times I've made a faux paw and pointed

992
00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:30,200
Speaker 1: at myself and other people with an extended finger. Oops,

993
00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:33,319
Speaker 1: i'd say, you know, depending on the context, it might

994
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:35,040
Speaker 1: not have been a faux pau. It's just like I

995
00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:38,520
Speaker 1: don't know. It varies, right, Yeah, I mean yeah, it's

996
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 1: situation is key. Yeah, but Ilva continues. Uh. And partly

997
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 1: because of the non human animals part. I have a

998
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:48,920
Speaker 1: medical alert and service dog. He's been with me for

999
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 1: nine years and he's smart. Suddenly I realized how much

1000
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:55,920
Speaker 1: of our communication happens by me pointing at things. I

1001
00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:59,160
Speaker 1: can point with my hand finger and object like a

1002
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:03,360
Speaker 1: shoehorn or with my foot. Eyeline is not necessary because

1003
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:06,440
Speaker 1: I wear sunglasses outside and it works great without him

1004
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:09,239
Speaker 1: knowing my line of sight. It's a huge part of

1005
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:12,560
Speaker 1: our everyday life. Bring me that thing, go over there,

1006
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:15,799
Speaker 1: put that thing there, et cetera. While he knows a

1007
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 1: lot of words and commands, pointing is really the only

1008
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:21,879
Speaker 1: way to differentiate between different pairs of shoes or give

1009
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:25,880
Speaker 1: him directions. I cannot recall consciously teaching him this, but

1010
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:28,560
Speaker 1: it's never been a problem for him. He also does

1011
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:31,640
Speaker 1: some sort of pointing on his own. He indicates things

1012
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:34,600
Speaker 1: I should pay attention to by scratching his paw on

1013
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 1: the floor in front of it, like dropped medication. He's

1014
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:40,279
Speaker 1: not allowed to touch, or when he just wants me

1015
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:42,960
Speaker 1: to give him something, or his toy is stuck under

1016
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:45,800
Speaker 1: the sofa, or I need to refill the water bowl

1017
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:48,480
Speaker 1: and such. My other dog was picked up as an

1018
00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:51,319
Speaker 1: adult from the street four years ago, and while he's

1019
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:54,360
Speaker 1: not a hurting dog like my service dog, he's probably

1020
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:57,560
Speaker 1: of normal dog intelligence and pointing just goes over his

1021
00:55:57,640 --> 00:56:00,319
Speaker 1: head with him. I've tried to train it, but he

1022
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:03,200
Speaker 1: gets what I mean maybe twenty five percent of the time,

1023
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:05,359
Speaker 1: and that's a lot better than when I first got

1024
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 1: him home. Possibly it's a skill acquired in puppyhood while

1025
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:12,400
Speaker 1: interacting with humans. If it's not inherent, this episode was

1026
00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:14,719
Speaker 1: very interesting and I hope you can talk more to

1027
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:18,080
Speaker 1: an elephant slash dolphin expert. I'm sending you a picture

1028
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:21,720
Speaker 1: of the dog in question Atlas uh and much appreciation

1029
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:25,160
Speaker 1: for me here in Sweden Ilva uh and what an

1030
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:28,280
Speaker 1: adorable dog in this picture. It's a pretty good dog

1031
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:30,960
Speaker 1: and it's it's looking up. I thought i'd heard that

1032
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:35,520
Speaker 1: dogs couldn't do that, but you should check your sources

1033
00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:39,000
Speaker 1: on that. Well. This has been a great mail bag.

1034
00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:41,880
Speaker 1: Thank you everyone so much for getting in touch. Um.

1035
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:44,839
Speaker 1: This has been really great, And as we always say,

1036
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 1: you know, if your message wasn't featured, please don't take

1037
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:50,280
Speaker 1: it personally. We get too much to read on the show,

1038
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:53,919
Speaker 1: but we really do appreciate all the correspondence we get. Yeah,

1039
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:56,080
Speaker 1: I mean, and it also lots of cool stuff comes

1040
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:58,960
Speaker 1: up on the discussion module, the stuff to about your

1041
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:02,640
Speaker 1: Mind Facebook group, Like somebody shared a video of someone

1042
00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 1: pointing with both fingers on a basketball court. Oh yeah, yeah,

1043
00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:09,200
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, and it was it was incredibly aggressive, was

1044
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 1: what they were pointing out. Was that, you know, we

1045
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:14,920
Speaker 1: talked about the idea of pointing with both hands, seemingly

1046
00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:17,520
Speaker 1: as a way to blunt the taboo of pointing with

1047
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:20,320
Speaker 1: a particular hand or pointing with an index finger, but

1048
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:22,720
Speaker 1: in this case, is the pointing with both hands happened

1049
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:25,640
Speaker 1: after like somebody got dunked on and then the guy

1050
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:28,600
Speaker 1: who dunked on the other guy pointed at him with

1051
00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:31,120
Speaker 1: both hands as he's lying on the floor, and it

1052
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 1: was like it was the most savage owning I've ever seen. Alright,

1053
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 1: so you have so probably don't try that, um in

1054
00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:43,600
Speaker 1: real life unless you're really going for a savage presentation

1055
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:47,080
Speaker 1: like that. All right, Well, in the meantime, if you

1056
00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:48,840
Speaker 1: want to check out other episodes of Stuff to Blow

1057
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:51,400
Speaker 1: your Mind, you know where to find them. It's wherever

1058
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:54,400
Speaker 1: you get your podcast and wherever that happens to be.

1059
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:57,240
Speaker 1: Just make sure that you rate, that you review, and

1060
00:57:57,400 --> 00:58:00,120
Speaker 1: you subscribe. Those are the three things that you can

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00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:02,400
Speaker 1: do that really help out the show. Also in general,

1062
00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 1: if you enjoy the show, you know, share it with

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00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 1: other people, tell them about it. If there's an episode

1064
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:10,040
Speaker 1: that uh, you know, and then it's by episode. You know,

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00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:12,040
Speaker 1: we cover a lot of ground. Not every episode of

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00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:14,040
Speaker 1: the show is gonna appeal to everybody, but you know

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00:58:14,080 --> 00:58:16,640
Speaker 1: occasionally you're gonna come across one where you're like, you know,

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Speaker 1: I bet Uncle Steve would dig this episode of Stuff

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Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind. I'm going to send it to him.

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Speaker 1: That's right, get us into Steve's ears. That's that's your

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Speaker 1: job this week. Yeah, we're going after that Steve demographic. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: Huge things as always to our excellent audio producer Seth

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00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:36,040
Speaker 1: Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to get in touch

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00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:38,240
Speaker 1: with us with feedback on this episode or any other,

1075
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:40,360
Speaker 1: to suggest a topic for the future, or just to

1076
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:43,400
Speaker 1: say hello, you can email us at contact at stuff

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00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:53,400
Speaker 1: to blow your mind, dot com stuff to blow your

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00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:56,360
Speaker 1: minds production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts for

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00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:59,480
Speaker 1: my heart Radio because the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts

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00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:12,160
Speaker 1: or where every you listening to your favorite shows f