WEBVTT - Harvey Lisberg 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:12.640 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Said Podcast. 0:00:13.240 --> 0:00:17.639 My guest today is manager Harvey Lisper, who's got a 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:24.960 new book, My Life managing TENCC, Berman's Hermits and many more. Harvey, 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:28.000 you started out as a songwriter. Tell us about that. 0:00:28.720 --> 0:00:34.040 I started out very young learning the piano traditionally, got 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:37.000 very fed up of that, and then started to learn 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:40.960 how to vump. My auntie, Sylvia, my mother's sister, was 0:00:41.080 --> 0:00:45.479 very efficient at playing music on me by ear. She 0:00:45.520 --> 0:00:47.400 could play any song you liked, and I was always 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:50.600 envious of her, and I started to play by air 0:00:50.640 --> 0:00:52.879 and I learnt. I decided, I'm not going to do 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:54.760 scales all day and night. I'm going to try and 0:00:54.800 --> 0:00:57.160 do my own thing. So I started to play a 0:00:57.160 --> 0:00:59.080 little bit of music because I could read music. And 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:03.440 my first song that did was a Smile in F 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:07.640 one flat and it was quite good actually. And then 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:10.600 later on I played the piano. Always played the piano 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:12.200 as a piano in the house. It was part of 0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:14.880 the house, and that right piano in the kitchen teeny 0:01:14.959 --> 0:01:19.319 Roombert had a big piano. And then when skiffle came 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:23.560 into England much later, there was a skiffle group that 0:01:23.600 --> 0:01:26.120 played in a jazz club that I went to, and 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:29.800 I got friendly with the leader called Paul Beatty, who 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:33.080 now lives in Canada, and he had a skiffle group 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:34.760 and he came back to a party in my house 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:37.600 and he taught me some chords on the on the guitar. 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:40.880 With one finger, I could play Takes a Worried Man. 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:43.280 You just fit one finger around and you play all 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:46.200 the blues chords. And then I started playing a bit, 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:49.960 and I started writing songs, trying songs myself. This is, 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:55.120 you know, about sixty two before anything had happened as 0:01:55.160 --> 0:01:58.760 far as the Beatles or anything like that, and I thought, right, 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:00.520 I write these songs and I'm going to try and 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:03.160 get them to artists. There were songs that were like 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:07.600 how do you do It? Or Freddie's do the Freddy? 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:10.520 They weren't masterpieces, they weren't any good at all. But 0:02:10.960 --> 0:02:12.960 I wanted to get them to somebody and to do it. 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:17.560 And that's how I started writing songs, and ultimately I 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:20.440 got one, which was the B side of I'm Into 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:24.880 Something Good with Herman's Hermits first band, and that was 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:27.519 very lucky. But that's a long story. To get to that. 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:30.440 But so that was really it. I just wrote songs. 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:33.160 I love music. I loved all the sixties music. We 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:37.800 were inundated with American trash and English singers with American accents. 0:02:37.840 --> 0:02:42.720 It was just dirdhit music. We were inundated with. 0:02:43.320 --> 0:02:48.840 Okay, the Beatles broke almost two years earlier in the UK, 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:53.200 before the US. When you talk about skifful et cetera. 0:02:53.840 --> 0:02:56.720 What was music like and what did it mean in 0:02:56.760 --> 0:02:59.040 the early sixties in the UK. 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:03.960 Well, it was American crooner. Well, no, we had known 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:07.680 that's not true. In the mid fifties we got Bill Haley, 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:09.919 and then from Bill Haley we had rock and roll. 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:12.640 We had Chuck Berry, Fats Domino, you name it. All. 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:16.360 Those are all the greats of that little Richard. We 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:18.640 had lots of rock and roll. But before that, the 0:03:18.680 --> 0:03:21.440 last twenty years, prior to that, we had Moon and 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:24.200 June and Crooner's and Love and June and you know, 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:27.239 awful songs. But there was Frank Sinatcha. There were a 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:31.040 few exceptions with some very good songs. But the English 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:34.520 people in the early sixties were listening to We listened 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:37.600 to all the doop from America. Then it was mostly 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:40.119 the Chuck Berry and rock and roll sort of thing. 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:44.960 Inundated the airways. When I say airways, that was a joke. 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:48.240 There was only one station, Radio one on the BBC 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:52.160 before all the commercial radio had started, So when I 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:55.280 was young, I had to listen to Radio Luxembourg, which 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:58.720 was two oh eight on the crystallized little radios that 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:01.800 we had to fiddle around with, or American Forces Network 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:04.560 in Europe AFM, and that's where we got all our 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:07.960 good music from America from as opposed to just the 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:11.160 crooners and all the Johnny Rays and Frankie Lanes and 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:14.880 everything else that was poured into the radio. So there's 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:19.080 a concoction of music. Skiffle was really because everybody could 0:04:19.080 --> 0:04:21.960 play the instrument, and there was an artist called Lonnie 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:25.680 Donegan that started playing all these songs which were basically 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:31.400 American folk songs. Cumberland Gap, it wasn't Cumberland in Cumberland, 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:36.320 it was something else. Midnight Special doesn't mean anything to 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:39.000 anybody in England because there's no midnight specials in England. 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:42.160 It's a train in America. And we were inundated with 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:44.760 all these songs and they were really good and very 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:48.440 popular and everybody could be in a skiffle group because 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:50.359 they didn't have to play an instrument. They played a 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:54.440 washboard for a drum sound and they all sang together 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:57.960 and it was quite exciting. And there's a Rock Island line. 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:01.920 There's about twenty bring a little wad of Sylvie. All 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:05.839 these songs were basically American folk songs, so maybe country 0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:08.680 folk songs, whatever, traditional folk songs. They were probably one 0:05:08.720 --> 0:05:11.120 hundred years old, and we all played them and that 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:12.919 was it. And that's how skiffle started. That's how the 0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:16.120 guitar started. That's how the Beatles started. They you know, 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:19.760 they played skiffle, they played that type of music. Maggie 0:05:19.800 --> 0:05:22.719 Maggie May or whatever. They played folk songs. 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:29.000 Okay, So was this just a lark that you wrote 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:32.159 songs or you have a burning desire? Was everybody you 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:35.080 know writing songs? Or were you like the only one? 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:38.240 No. I had a few friends and we were just 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:42.360 playing around on guitars. We were just harmonizing with each 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:45.640 other and playing stop playing the music of the day, 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:48.520 you know, whatever it was. Where the Italian musician it 0:05:48.600 --> 0:05:51.440 was very popular in England at the times. We played 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:55.279 for Lry Marina Marini all that sort of Italian stuff 0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:57.560 was popular, and I just and folk songs, and of 0:05:57.600 --> 0:06:00.440 course I was the party jester. I love collect and 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:04.040 I could make any song up lyrically. I could really 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:06.880 get clever with the lyrics, so I could go to 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:09.400 a party and start talking about all the people in 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:12.200 the room. And at Calypso, and I was pretty pretty 0:06:12.240 --> 0:06:15.520 adept at Calypso. For some reason, maybe I've got roots, 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:16.440 but I don't know. 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:21.239 Okay. So one of the big points in the book 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:26.400 is you talk about the rivalry between Manchester and Liverpool. 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:32.000 Now in America, we first hear the Beatles, we think 0:06:32.040 --> 0:06:37.080 of Liverpool in London. So what was the landscape in 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:39.279 the UK in the early sixties. 0:06:39.400 --> 0:06:47.359 Like well, Manchester was the biggest club town in England, 0:06:47.480 --> 0:06:51.279 so the more live music in Manchester and London as well. 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:54.279 I mean Liverpool was third. I mean Liverpool was not 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:57.480 really in it as far as live music was concerned. 0:06:57.480 --> 0:06:59.960 In those days. There was lots of clubs in Manchester 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:01.960 and the Rolling Stones would come and play at their 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:06.000 Wasis or all the bands that subsequently became enormous played 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:08.960 at the clubs in Manchester. So there's a very healthy 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:16.000 club scene in Manchester, Liverpool happened when the Beatles started. 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:21.680 It was they'd worked at this Star club in Hamburg 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:23.960 for a while and they were getting their own following. 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:27.480 Before they met Epstein or anything. They were working very 0:07:27.520 --> 0:07:31.720 hard getting their band together. I believe that's correct, and 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:37.160 they just when they happened. It was the most magical 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:40.640 thing that ever happened in the sixties. Probably it was 0:07:40.720 --> 0:07:44.240 just incredible. All of a sudden we had great music. 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:48.920 It was English, it was humorous, it was brilliant, and 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:50.560 we all fell in love with it. I mean I 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:53.840 never every time a Beatles album or record was released, 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:56.080 I got it on the first morning of release and 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:59.720 I wore the album out before it anybody probably had 0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:02.280 heard it, which just was berserk on the Beatles. It 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:04.760 was just appeal to me. I mean. My background in 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:09.160 music was Italian opera, which has paddled through my house 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:12.320 from my father who loved opera. He was a violinist 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:15.560 and also a saxophone player in the band. During the war. 0:08:16.320 --> 0:08:19.600 I was just had that in My next door neighbor 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:22.000 was mad on classical music. And then I went to 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:26.040 synagogue and the beautiful music from the synagogue all the 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:28.880 school music and the fantastic choirs they had their So 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:31.720 I had all that music going around my head, and 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:34.720 I just I love music, and it wasn't just specifically 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:38.679 any brand of music. Even up to today, I still 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:41.120 can like a good song or if something's good, it 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:43.520 appeals to me. I don't say, oh, well, it's always 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:46.160 better in the older days, because new things are great, 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:48.439 sometimes rarely but sometimes. 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:54.080 Okay. You mentioned synagogue and you go into your Jewish 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:59.040 roots in the book to what degree was anti Semitism 0:08:59.440 --> 0:09:02.000 prevalent at that point in the sixties and how did 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:05.000 that affect you both personally and in business. 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:11.160 Well, growing up, there was a tremendous amount of resentment 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:14.880 lack of knowledge about Jewish people. I mean went through 0:09:14.880 --> 0:09:18.240 all my school days and everything whereever school I was at, 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:21.600 because I started off going to really orthodox Jewish schools 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:24.240 when I was like six, So I've got a tremendous 0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:27.360 grounding in Orthodoxy and I know all the prayers and everything. 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:31.240 But when I went to the non Jewish schools Cheatamil 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:35.320 Methodist School sold for Grammar School, there was avert anti 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:40.000 Semitism because basically the people there are conditioned to believe 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:44.520 that all Jews were rich, and comparatively speaking, yes, maybe 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:48.040 I was more wealthy from a middle class as opposed 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:51.880 to the working class, which was the schools inundated with 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:57.079 really low working class people, very low wages. And they thought, 0:09:57.120 --> 0:09:59.480 all you Jews have got everything. But of course that 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:03.040 isn't true. I mean, there's millions of Jews that are starving, 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:05.880 and you know, there were lots of working class Jews 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:09.400 at that level. But as far as anti Semitems were concerned, 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:12.400 these kids believed all Jews are rich, all Jews did this, 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:15.600 all do that. And I was a minority in England. 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:18.440 I had to be on my best behavior all the time. 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:22.920 The only time I evolved out of my I don't 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:26.800 call it an inferiority complex, an awareness of being Jewish, 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:29.800 was when I went to Israel, and it was just 0:10:30.120 --> 0:10:31.880 it was like a breath of fresh air to me. 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:34.160 All of a sudden, I was I didn't have to 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:35.959 be quiet, I didn't have to watch my p's and 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:38.600 q's on Friday night. I didn't have to stay in 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:41.440 like a lunatic and not be allowed out because then 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:44.560 my uncle there had a meal, a Friday night meal 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:47.520 with the candles and everything, and after it's finished, lo 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:50.720 and behold the cards came out, poker gambling, god knows 0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:54.520 what's smoking things that didn't my house in England because 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:56.880 it was Friday night and you didn't do that. You 0:10:57.040 --> 0:11:01.040 just obeyed the law. And that's so. Yes, there was 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:05.640 a lot of anti Semitism and Semitism through. My wife 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:08.880 found it as well. She went to a school called 0:11:08.920 --> 0:11:13.319 Lady Harrogate's Ladies College and she was very good at tennis, 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:17.079 really good, and they wanted her to go to Wimbledon 0:11:17.559 --> 0:11:21.000 to play tennis. And the teacher came up to her 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:24.440 and said, look, I'm terribly sorry, Carol. You can't go 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:26.400 to Wimbled and they won't accept you. And she said 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:29.280 why she is because no Jews are allowed there. So 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:34.240 this in nineteen fifty four and this is Wimbledon, right, 0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:38.960 So it was right throughout the whole country. Also, you 0:11:38.960 --> 0:11:41.120 couldn't get a job, you know. I wanted to be 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:43.000 a stockbroker. That was my aim. I didn't want to 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:44.920 be an accountant. You know, I'm a gambler, so I 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:47.400 was always gambling on stocks and chairs. There were no 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:51.960 Jewish stockbrokers. It was my aim to become one. But 0:11:52.880 --> 0:11:55.520 I mean it was just everywhere. The jobs weren't available 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:59.520 for you. You weren't bankers or anything. Your jobs were 0:11:59.559 --> 0:12:02.880 limited from coming over from Europe and everything. You had 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:05.360 certain jobs you had to do. They were open to 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:09.240 you money lending whatever, you know, that sort of thing, 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:14.920 or peddling or working on the markets, selling stuff on markets. 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:18.080 There weren't that many openings for Jewish people really, so 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:22.400 a lot of them became doctors and intellectual sort of thing. 0:12:22.880 --> 0:12:28.240 And that differentiated Liverpool from Manchester as well, because Manchester 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:34.040 was all the Eastern European immigrants, whereas Liverpool with the Irish, 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:38.240 came in an inundated. They were with an Irish background 0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:41.280 and they kind of looked at each other. I mean 0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:44.120 they kind of looked down at them, the Europeans, you know, 0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:47.240 they're not cultured, you know. And that was the situation. 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:52.560 And in your business career, to what degree did you 0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:54.359 experience anti Semitism? 0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:59.360 Oh, very little. I think the Jewish people controlled the 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:04.160 entertain business. They controlled Hollywood from the turn of the 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:08.960 completely it was all Jewish people. They completely controlled all 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:13.640 the Broadway musical writers and everything were all Jewish. In England, 0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:16.920 the biggest agency was the Grade agency which controlled about 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:21.560 everything in England. Every artist was a member of the Grades, 0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:26.959 and I didn't I didn't find any anti Semetter. There 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:29.560 might have been anti Semetins started with a pank Era, 0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:33.680 but that was in the eighties when I started, I 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:37.280 didn't find anything in the music. In fact, it was 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:41.199 possibly even an advantage to be Jewish, possibly because it 0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:43.840 was like a network of Jewish people controlling everything for 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:47.240 the record label, the record companies, everybody that we had 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:50.840 infiltrated that Maybe that was because of the artistic side, 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:53.640 and it was an opening for Jews who always musical 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:56.800 and liked music and the culture and wanted to get 0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:58.720 in there, and it was an avenue where they could 0:13:58.720 --> 0:13:59.040 get in. 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:02.440 So how did you meet Herman in the Hermits as 0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:03.120 they were called. 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:08.000 Then, Well, I was writing these mediocre songs and getting 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:13.240 no success with anybody. Nobody wanted to know. So I thought, right, well, 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:16.440 I'll get my own band. I'll do't play my music. 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:21.800 I'm my father, who's very musical. He sort of was 0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:25.760 rather sarcastic about my songwriting, but I took it in 0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:31.560 good faith. So I arranged a arranged at something with 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:35.040 a manched evening news for the new groups, and I 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:36.680 was going to go and see this new group in 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:40.080 a church roll in Davy Hume and I went there 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:44.280 and Herman and the Hermits were appearing. They were playing 0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:48.840 Chuck Berry sort of standing there. They actually had it. 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:51.320 Missus Brown was actually in the act at that stage. 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:54.400 She was played in there. And all the normal songs 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:59.720 that every group played, needles and pens or whatever, anything 0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:02.200 that was American that they could but adapt they did 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:05.760 it do or did he did he? Whatever? And after 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:09.960 each number, all these girls charged the stage. I was screaming. 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:12.720 I thought it was like a Beatles concert. I thought, God, 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:16.360 I won the National lottery here. This is fantastic. I 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:19.800 subsequently found out that they'd planted in the audience lots 0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:22.080 of their friends and asked them to scream and shout, 0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:24.920 telling them that an American manager was coming to see 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:28.280 the band. I went back to Peter's house after the 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:31.400 concert and I started fiddling on the piano because I 0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:33.200 was playing piano. He had a piano in the house, 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:37.040 a huge piano, and I started fiddling. Ray Charles, tell 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:39.360 me what I say, And Peter said, would you like 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:40.920 to join the band? I said no, I don't want 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:42.920 to join the band. I want to manage the band, 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:46.440 and I want you to do my songs. So they 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:49.200 did your hand in mine as a B side, as 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:52.600 I say, And I got a huge check at Christmas, 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:56.680 and I showed it to my father and my father said, well, 0:15:56.760 --> 0:15:59.880 maybe I was wrong, but he wasn't wrong. He was 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:03.280 that's right. It was just a stupid way that people 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:07.000 that wrote B sides could get half the mechanicals, which 0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:10.280 is a nonsense. So I got the same for mechanicals 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:12.960 as Carol King, and I can't claim to be in 0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:15.600 the same light years as her as far as the 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:17.280 songwriters and goffin of course. 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:20.680 Okay, let's go a little bit slower. You're working as 0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:26.120 an accountant, you're writing songs. How do you decide to 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:28.920 be a manager? Was it something you just saw the 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:31.800 being and said, hey, I'm a manager. How did that happen? 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:37.600 Well, I think that happened basically because of the Beatles 0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:40.200 and next scene success. I mean, I think I was 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:42.120 writing the songs and trying to do all the things 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:45.000 I was doing, But then I don't know what ye're 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:48.720 The Beatles started, was it sixty three? They had few hits, 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:52.360 and Brian Epstein, who was a Jewish boy from Liverpool, 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:55.240 started to get a lot of press, and certainly in 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:58.320 the Jewish community, it was like an icon. And I thought, well, 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:02.200 he's had no background in music, he knows nothing about 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:05.720 management of acts or anything, but why can't I do that? 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:08.439 So that was that was the thing that sparked me 0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:11.280 into wanted to be a manager. It wasn't the original 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:14.360 intention at all. The original attention was to write songs, 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:18.000 have loads of hits and earn the royalties. My envy 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:21.520 was always book writers who just thought, God, they write 0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:25.120 a book, they go to bed and they're hemingway and 0:17:25.440 --> 0:17:27.919 you know that the roatis come in. You don't do 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:30.200 anything else. And I thought, and I'm like that, I'm 0:17:30.240 --> 0:17:33.400 not very I'm a bit I know, and it's selfish 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:37.919 or my idea of earning money the easy way, and 0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:41.200 it's just a it's a fault of mine. But I 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:45.720 always envied the songwriters for that reason, not the musical songwriters, 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:48.119 the book writers. Those are the people that were the 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:50.200 big things in the forties and fifties. 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:53.879 Okay, you have no background in the music business. You 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:58.160 can play a little piano, skiffle, calypso you can write songs. 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:01.520 And then you said, well, Ryan Epstein is doing it, 0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:05.720 why can't die? Is that your personality, that you're just 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:07.960 as good as anybody else who you can do it? 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:11.200 What is it about you that allows you to do this? 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:15.040 Being swamped as a channel by love, from being the 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:21.200 first grandchild of a close knit family, always spoilt, ruined, 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:25.879 I was infallible. I didn't have any I had no fear. 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:28.439 That's why I said I wanted to become a stockbroker, 0:18:28.440 --> 0:18:31.080 though no jeish stockbrokers. That wasn't going to bother me 0:18:31.480 --> 0:18:35.439 when I'm at now. King Charles the Third at a 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:41.000 concert of ten CC, I was introduced to him afterwards, 0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:43.760 and I said, oh, did you like Well, I don't 0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:47.879 really know of ten CC, so of course you're not 0:18:47.920 --> 0:18:50.720 meant to ask royalty any questions. But I didn't take 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:53.360 an notice of that. I said, but you never heard 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:56.040 I'm not in Love. You know it's on the It's 0:18:56.080 --> 0:18:59.000 on the radio all the time. And he said, well, no, 0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:02.239 I don't really. I don't really get a chance to 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:05.680 hear that very much. I do listen to Radio four 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:08.800 sometimes on my way to Ascot and I thought there's 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:11.800 the future King of England that didn't know the first 0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:14.440 thing about the pop music business. And I was shocked, 0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:18.160 and I think Princess Diana sorted him out. And no 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:19.360 doubt now is an expert. 0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:31.359 Okay, a little bit slower. You go to the gig, 0:19:31.920 --> 0:19:35.880 you go to Peter Noon's house. How does it end 0:19:36.000 --> 0:19:38.160 up that you progress and get a record deal? 0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:40.520 Right? Well, the first thing the manager had to do 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:42.439 in those days was to get a record deal. That 0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:45.400 was the golden rule. You've got a band, you get 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:47.439 a record deal, you have a hit and so forth. 0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:53.359 So I filled the date sheet completely. I mean Herman 0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:56.320 Summit's are working seven nights a week, sometimes three times 0:19:56.400 --> 0:19:59.399 a night, ending up in some drunken Irish club at 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:03.400 two o'clock morning to do that set very wealthy because 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:06.280 they had no mortgages, no two ferraris in the garage, 0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:10.000 no wives, no nothing. They were all single, fifteen sixteen 0:20:10.119 --> 0:20:11.920 seventeen and at the end of the day they split 0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:15.800 a pounds they got about thirty forty pounds cash, which 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:18.520 is a lot of money in those days. So that 0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:23.640 was that was really exciting. And with a full date 0:20:23.680 --> 0:20:26.399 sheet it helped because I knew that if I got 0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:31.800 somehow to EMI or somebody I could, I could get 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:33.400 a record deal, or I can get them to see 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:35.879 the band working and see the date sheet, et cetera. 0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:40.280 And I was We did a lunchtime session at the 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:43.280 Plaza Ballroom and I went to the manager's office, a 0:20:43.320 --> 0:20:45.440 gentleman called Terry Devine and on the table there was 0:20:45.480 --> 0:20:48.879 a piece of paper with EARI headliner. Could I borrow 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:51.320 that letter a second? And I looked at it had 0:20:51.400 --> 0:20:55.960 Derek Caverett at the bottom. So I decided, okay, let's 0:20:56.119 --> 0:20:58.840 do it. Let's write to Derek Caverrett. And I wrote 0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:01.840 to Dereka, We've heard all about you and we'd like 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:04.000 to come and meet you. I've got this band. Would 0:21:04.040 --> 0:21:07.240 you be interested in meeting me? And very kindly wrote 0:21:07.280 --> 0:21:08.720 back the next day and said, yeah, I come down 0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:11.640 to London. I ran down to London as quickly as 0:21:11.680 --> 0:21:14.359 I could, and I went into EMI's office as a 0:21:14.440 --> 0:21:18.080 Manchester Square, where I saw Derek Everett and as I 0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:19.600 walked through the door and says, you know, I've got 0:21:19.640 --> 0:21:21.720 nothing to do with A and R. I don't have 0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:25.160 anything to do with the artistic side of the bands. 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:29.439 I just put physical records into dance halls. So I 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:34.800 was really totally totally shocked. So I'm sitting there and 0:21:34.840 --> 0:21:39.159 I'm depressed and my chins down. I thought, what an 0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:41.400 idiot I've been. I've written this letter to him telling 0:21:41.400 --> 0:21:44.240 them how wonderful it is, and he's a completely nonentity. 0:21:45.400 --> 0:21:47.240 But just as I left, though, he said, by the way, though, 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:50.959 I know there's a new producer called Mickey must and 0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:55.720 he's just having some success with a group called The Animals. 0:21:55.800 --> 0:21:58.800 Would you be interested in meeting him? So I thought, yeah, well, 0:21:59.080 --> 0:22:01.159 while I'm in London, I might as well make some 0:22:01.320 --> 0:22:03.440 use of this journey. And I went to see Mickey 0:22:03.520 --> 0:22:06.639 Mos and I presented him with the photograph of Herman 0:22:06.680 --> 0:22:09.040 and the Hermits as they were when I first saught them, 0:22:10.000 --> 0:22:12.040 and he looked at them and he said, yes, looks 0:22:12.119 --> 0:22:15.560 quite looks quite interesting. And then I went back to 0:22:15.640 --> 0:22:17.879 Manchester and I kept phoning his office. Would he come 0:22:17.920 --> 0:22:21.040 up and see the band? Nothing happened, Nothing happened, and 0:22:21.160 --> 0:22:24.240 I decided to have a brainwave. I'm going to send 0:22:24.320 --> 0:22:26.560 him two first class there tickets and I'm going to 0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:28.159 put him at the best hotel in Manchester in the 0:22:28.160 --> 0:22:30.879 Middland overnight and see if he'll come up. So I 0:22:30.920 --> 0:22:33.359 sat in them and he got the envelope with the 0:22:33.400 --> 0:22:35.480 tickets and he came up and I took him to 0:22:35.480 --> 0:22:40.320 see Herman and the Hermits at the Beach Comba in Bolton, 0:22:41.040 --> 0:22:44.120 and he said, yeah, they're quite good. They're all right. 0:22:44.880 --> 0:22:48.320 And I had a really clapped out core in those days. 0:22:48.320 --> 0:22:50.840 It was my mother's. It was kind of I think 0:22:50.920 --> 0:22:53.040 it was a Ford Prefect or a Triumph Herald. It 0:22:53.119 --> 0:22:56.240 was just a little piece of tin. But I'd had 0:22:56.280 --> 0:22:59.680 the I was so mad on music that I'd invested 0:22:59.680 --> 0:23:02.280 a four in this record player for one of the 0:23:02.280 --> 0:23:04.840 Phillips record players. I don't know whether they had them 0:23:04.840 --> 0:23:07.440 in America. You could put a forty five in it 0:23:07.840 --> 0:23:11.280 and when you went over a bump, the suspension didn't 0:23:11.320 --> 0:23:14.480 affect the record. It still played. And on the way 0:23:14.480 --> 0:23:16.400 back to the hotel, g so, by the way, I've 0:23:16.400 --> 0:23:19.119 got a song here you might be interested in. And 0:23:19.160 --> 0:23:21.200 I had very good ears. I mean I could always 0:23:21.240 --> 0:23:23.919 pick hits, even from early days. As soon as I 0:23:23.920 --> 0:23:26.680 heard something, once I knew whether I had a feeling, 0:23:26.720 --> 0:23:30.240 I knew it was it usually it was. And he 0:23:30.359 --> 0:23:32.920 put on this song. It was Earl Jean's I'm Into 0:23:32.960 --> 0:23:35.919 Something Good, which apparently just entered the American charts at 0:23:35.920 --> 0:23:41.359 about ninety two, and I thought, that's fantastic. Can we 0:23:41.359 --> 0:23:43.479 do it? Can we do it? He says, yes, if 0:23:43.480 --> 0:23:46.520 you get rid of two members of your band. I thought, so, 0:23:46.600 --> 0:23:48.640 I've had the good and the bad, you know, the good, 0:23:48.680 --> 0:23:50.639 bad and the ugly. Has got to be getting rid 0:23:50.680 --> 0:23:55.080 of them. But so it wasn't very It was the 0:23:55.119 --> 0:23:58.480 mixed thing where the song was so great. I went 0:23:58.520 --> 0:24:01.240 back to Peter's house. I told Peter, look, we've got 0:24:01.280 --> 0:24:02.960 to get rid of two of the group. And it's 0:24:03.040 --> 0:24:05.480 very hard because they were an integral part of the 0:24:05.800 --> 0:24:10.280 early group and it's not easy. But we said to 0:24:10.320 --> 0:24:13.160 the guy, look, Alan, you've got to leave the band. 0:24:13.200 --> 0:24:16.040 It's nothing we can do. If we want to get 0:24:16.080 --> 0:24:17.679 a record doing, and we don't get a record deal, 0:24:17.720 --> 0:24:20.560 we're not going to get anywhere. And Alan knew he 0:24:20.720 --> 0:24:23.080 wasn't that great as a bass player. He went with 0:24:23.119 --> 0:24:25.800 Peter to the cavern to see the Beatles and his 0:24:25.920 --> 0:24:30.000 only comment was, oh God, we're fucked. You know, he 0:24:31.200 --> 0:24:34.480 could have played me played the bass like that. So 0:24:35.000 --> 0:24:37.880 he was depressed even then. Which was six months earlier. 0:24:38.440 --> 0:24:41.439 So anyhow, he walked out of the room in a storm, 0:24:41.480 --> 0:24:44.520 and I was a bit sad and Peter and also 0:24:44.560 --> 0:24:47.280 I was scared. I mean, his father had been convicted 0:24:47.320 --> 0:24:49.919 of some capital crime and was in jail, and he 0:24:50.000 --> 0:24:52.120 was a fierce looking guy. You don't want to mess 0:24:52.160 --> 0:24:54.719 with him. And I thought, It'by's coming with a knife 0:24:54.720 --> 0:24:56.720 for the next two weeks. I'll have to protect myself, 0:24:57.119 --> 0:25:03.080 keep my eyes over my head. So anyhow, I I 0:25:03.160 --> 0:25:05.080 got in the car, which was a van. We had 0:25:05.080 --> 0:25:07.440 a van which took all the equipment round in with Peter, 0:25:07.920 --> 0:25:10.159 and we drove out of Peter's house and as we 0:25:10.240 --> 0:25:14.119 went in the road going Alan Rigley was lying across 0:25:14.160 --> 0:25:16.480 the middle of the road and had to swerve to 0:25:16.560 --> 0:25:20.719 me to miss him. And so it was so it 0:25:20.800 --> 0:25:23.920 was so awful. I mean, at the time it was 0:25:23.960 --> 0:25:26.800 a relief getting it done, but it was it was 0:25:26.840 --> 0:25:31.840 an awful, awful experience. And then we evolved into getting 0:25:31.880 --> 0:25:34.760 new members of the band, and everybody we put in 0:25:34.920 --> 0:25:39.120 was an excellent musician, and the music improved tremendously as 0:25:39.119 --> 0:25:42.840 far as the actual physical playing was concerned. And some 0:25:42.880 --> 0:25:47.640 of the band didn't people like Derek Leckenbye and Barry 0:25:47.680 --> 0:25:52.760 whitwom who came later on to be drummer and a 0:25:52.840 --> 0:25:55.879 lead guitarist, that they didn't want. Everybody had heard about 0:25:55.880 --> 0:25:59.280 Herman and Hermits because they were working everywhere and nobody 0:25:59.359 --> 0:26:02.320 was impressed at the time, But when they saw the 0:26:02.440 --> 0:26:06.480 date sheet, Lex said, well, you know this is good, 0:26:06.600 --> 0:26:09.360 this looks all right, so they joined. Because of that, 0:26:09.800 --> 0:26:11.879 all my friends kept telling me what a load of 0:26:11.920 --> 0:26:14.560 rubbish this bout is. Why don't I get a proper job, 0:26:14.560 --> 0:26:17.719 get an accountcy job, start messing around with all these people. 0:26:18.560 --> 0:26:20.359 Then we had a number one hit with them and 0:26:20.480 --> 0:26:22.639 something good and they said, oh, well there's only be 0:26:22.640 --> 0:26:27.359 a one hit wonder you know the really happy Jewish background. 0:26:27.400 --> 0:26:31.640 Sarcasm was rife at the time because they weren't impressed 0:26:31.640 --> 0:26:34.800 with Herman and Ermits musically okay, and then Show Me 0:26:34.800 --> 0:26:37.920 Go it was a miss, and I thought, well, maybe 0:26:37.960 --> 0:26:41.639 they're right. But after that, after ten hits, they stopped 0:26:41.680 --> 0:26:43.639 telling me they were a load of rubbish. 0:26:43.960 --> 0:26:49.439 Okay. In the interim after finding the band, you raise 0:26:49.680 --> 0:26:51.800 some money, tell me about that. 0:26:52.640 --> 0:26:56.679 Yes, I needed money, I'm not sure. Yeah, we just 0:26:56.680 --> 0:27:00.400 needed money originally for clothes, and things like that. Four 0:27:00.440 --> 0:27:05.719 people put up fifty five pounds each and they were 0:27:05.720 --> 0:27:09.600 all wealthy businessmen, and I worked the band, had a 0:27:09.600 --> 0:27:12.680 full date sheet, and they were all lovely people. He's 0:27:12.720 --> 0:27:17.240 been my cousin, Jeffrey Greenberg, Raymond Abrinson and Brian Joseph. 0:27:17.400 --> 0:27:20.480 They were the partners and they were all wealthy in 0:27:20.520 --> 0:27:26.359 their own right from really successful businesses. And I needed 0:27:27.080 --> 0:27:29.879 I think one thousand or two thousand pounds ultimately to 0:27:29.880 --> 0:27:32.359 get a new van because the van disintegrated. It was 0:27:32.400 --> 0:27:36.160 doing so much work and they didn't want to really 0:27:36.160 --> 0:27:38.960 put any more money into it, okay, because as I say, 0:27:39.200 --> 0:27:43.080 everybody was laughing at us sort of thing. And that's 0:27:43.080 --> 0:27:45.879 when I got involved with Charlie Silverman, who was also 0:27:46.280 --> 0:27:49.800 very wealthy father who made money going on the gold 0:27:49.840 --> 0:27:53.920 Trail of the Yukon or something. Vastly wealthy, flew planes 0:27:53.920 --> 0:27:57.680 and god knows what. In the forties, my grandmother used 0:27:57.680 --> 0:28:00.320 to go mad because of Charlie's father used to fly 0:28:00.440 --> 0:28:02.840 over in one of these single engine planes and flip 0:28:02.840 --> 0:28:06.160 it over the back garden, and she trying to impress, 0:28:06.200 --> 0:28:09.440 you know, and she was really fed up with him anyhow. 0:28:09.600 --> 0:28:13.639 So I went to the boys. I said, look, if 0:28:13.680 --> 0:28:17.560 you're not going to if you're not going to carry 0:28:17.600 --> 0:28:19.760 on or put more money in, would I be able 0:28:19.760 --> 0:28:21.960 to buy you back? And they will agreed to take 0:28:22.000 --> 0:28:24.679 the money back that they put in, and they were happy. 0:28:24.880 --> 0:28:28.640 There was no resentment. So I moved in with Charlie 0:28:29.320 --> 0:28:31.280 and then we wrote songs with Charlie as well. 0:28:32.640 --> 0:28:37.159 Okay, a little bit slower, Mickey Mose comes up. You 0:28:37.359 --> 0:28:40.400 play the song in your record player in the car. 0:28:41.160 --> 0:28:45.680 How long soil you record on into something good? And 0:28:45.760 --> 0:28:47.520 what was the recording session? 0:28:47.720 --> 0:28:51.880 Like one incidental thing was everybody I had touched in 0:28:51.920 --> 0:28:55.160 those days turned to gold. So although Mickey most have 0:28:55.240 --> 0:28:59.600 had some success as soon as we got together with him. 0:28:59.760 --> 0:29:02.080 How the Rising Sunwhere was the record that came out 0:29:02.360 --> 0:29:05.160 which made him the biggest thing in the world, which 0:29:05.240 --> 0:29:10.280 was lucky for us and lucky for him. Probably three 0:29:10.360 --> 0:29:13.000 or four months for us to get We recorded it, 0:29:13.040 --> 0:29:15.080 I think in July, and it came out in August, 0:29:15.680 --> 0:29:19.760 and I met Mickey for the first time the November 0:29:19.920 --> 0:29:26.040 before and probably by the time I got him. Yeah, 0:29:26.160 --> 0:29:29.520 it's probably all within six or eight months this happened. 0:29:29.560 --> 0:29:33.000 All this happened. What was the second part of your question. 0:29:33.080 --> 0:29:35.800 So what was the actual session, like, what was Mickey's 0:29:35.840 --> 0:29:36.920 magic if anything? 0:29:38.040 --> 0:29:41.960 Oh, it was a very he was completely dictatorial about 0:29:42.000 --> 0:29:45.400 the session. The boys went in. It was three hours. 0:29:46.080 --> 0:29:49.280 I don't remember anything about it because I was outside 0:29:49.320 --> 0:29:52.080 the studio. But they went in, they did it. The 0:29:52.600 --> 0:29:54.840 B side was knocked out. I mean, everything was done 0:29:54.960 --> 0:29:58.160 very quickly. Had a very good pianist that played the 0:29:58.240 --> 0:30:01.600 piano part called I think Joe Webb was very good, 0:30:02.040 --> 0:30:03.960 and it was and the boys sang very well and 0:30:04.000 --> 0:30:06.880 they played I thought it was okay. It was a 0:30:07.000 --> 0:30:11.200 very nice record. And after three hours everybody went back 0:30:11.240 --> 0:30:14.360 to Manchester. I mean there was like, drove down into 0:30:14.400 --> 0:30:18.160 the studio three hours by out gone and that's it. 0:30:18.240 --> 0:30:20.280 And then the rest is all taken over by Mickey 0:30:20.280 --> 0:30:23.000 mosten Emi or whatever they do with the records to 0:30:23.040 --> 0:30:26.000 get it out. We'd done our bit, we'd driven down, 0:30:26.120 --> 0:30:31.680 spent three hours, very little. I don't know, it's little 0:30:31.720 --> 0:30:34.760 preparation in a way, I don't know what preparation Mickey 0:30:34.760 --> 0:30:38.200 did in the background, whether he used I can't remember, 0:30:38.360 --> 0:30:40.880 and I'm in something good. I really can't remember what 0:30:40.960 --> 0:30:44.360 sort of arrangement, So what sort of instrumentation he used 0:30:44.480 --> 0:30:47.760 on top of everything, I don't know, but subsequently on 0:30:47.880 --> 0:30:52.920 future records he used Jimmy Page. John Paul Jones arranged everything. 0:30:53.320 --> 0:30:56.640 Every orchestral bit for Herman Sermons was arranged by John 0:30:56.680 --> 0:31:01.000 Paul Jones. Big Jim Sullivan played on things. Katini played that. 0:31:01.280 --> 0:31:04.280 I mean, Mickey only used the best people, which was 0:31:04.320 --> 0:31:09.280 a shame for Herman Sermits, who weren't allowed to develop musically, 0:31:09.480 --> 0:31:13.720 although potentially they might have been tremendous. But because every 0:31:13.760 --> 0:31:16.760 time Mickey used this session man, because of the way 0:31:16.800 --> 0:31:19.240 he did it, and that's the way you couldn't really 0:31:19.320 --> 0:31:21.520 argue with it. Because while he's giving you hit after 0:31:21.640 --> 0:31:24.520 hit after hit, what do you say you don't want 0:31:24.560 --> 0:31:27.200 to change? Change the boat? 0:31:28.120 --> 0:31:31.960 Okay, the record comes out in August. Tell me about 0:31:31.960 --> 0:31:34.600 your experience of its success. 0:31:35.800 --> 0:31:38.959 It came in the chart iving in the forties. I 0:31:39.000 --> 0:31:43.000 went for twenty three to eight to three to one, 0:31:43.080 --> 0:31:45.960 and I was kicked off by pretty woman, I think 0:31:46.000 --> 0:31:55.800 by Roy Orbison. Oh, Peter became very, very photogenic, very 0:31:56.040 --> 0:31:59.600 in every newspaper. It was a very big thing at 0:31:59.640 --> 0:32:03.360 hermanermits were really, you know, the flavor of the month. 0:32:03.400 --> 0:32:06.040 And I'm into Something Good, which just such a wonderful song, 0:32:06.520 --> 0:32:09.520 such an uplifting song, and you know, it's one of 0:32:09.560 --> 0:32:13.560 those songs like in the Summertime by Mungo Jerry. You 0:32:13.640 --> 0:32:16.280 knew first time you hear it, it's an absolute smash. 0:32:16.320 --> 0:32:18.280 And so as I'm into something good, it was like 0:32:18.480 --> 0:32:20.600 a one above what you know, one's a one, a 0:32:20.680 --> 0:32:24.760 real one, and we were in heaven. Obviously, all our 0:32:24.800 --> 0:32:28.240 bookings went up, the prices went up, money went up, 0:32:29.440 --> 0:32:34.760 and we had strange things happen. You know, it's perhaps 0:32:34.840 --> 0:32:38.000 that did happen in America, you know went out on MGM. 0:32:38.200 --> 0:32:40.960 Well a little bit slower. When do you get the 0:32:41.120 --> 0:32:46.560 MGM deal? And why MGM? At the time, MGM had 0:32:46.560 --> 0:32:49.560 a couple of other hit acts, but it was really 0:32:49.600 --> 0:32:52.360 a tertiary label compared to the other ones. 0:32:52.800 --> 0:32:56.480 We had no control over that whatsoever. Everything we did 0:32:56.640 --> 0:32:59.640 was guided by Mickey Most. Mickey Most was guided by 0:33:00.160 --> 0:33:03.920 the infamous famous Alan Klein, and anything that happened there 0:33:03.960 --> 0:33:08.240 would have been done probably initially by Alan Klein, subsequently 0:33:08.320 --> 0:33:13.000 through Mickey Most and whatever happened all the huge deals 0:33:13.040 --> 0:33:18.480 we did, Alan Klein was kind of somehow involved. So 0:33:19.120 --> 0:33:20.320 we didn't do very much. 0:33:22.560 --> 0:33:25.719 So how long after the record comes out in the 0:33:25.840 --> 0:33:28.520 UK it is to come out in the US, and 0:33:28.560 --> 0:33:31.840 then when it's successful, how do you decide to go 0:33:31.880 --> 0:33:33.680 to the US and capitalize on that. 0:33:35.240 --> 0:33:39.000 I'm trying to work out whether it seems to me 0:33:39.200 --> 0:33:42.120 that when I went into the office one morning, which 0:33:42.160 --> 0:33:44.920 is a smelly office in Manchester on the second floor 0:33:45.200 --> 0:33:50.520 above a Chinese restaurant with curry going right through the 0:33:50.560 --> 0:33:53.479 smell of curry, it was awful. It was an embarrassing office, 0:33:53.480 --> 0:33:56.640 about very small. There were two men standing in the 0:33:57.360 --> 0:34:00.400 doorway on a Monday morning, one hand a sigo which 0:34:00.440 --> 0:34:03.600 is about two feet long, and the other one had 0:34:03.640 --> 0:34:07.880 to see a second suit on. And you, Harvey Lizberg, Yeah, 0:34:07.920 --> 0:34:10.319 I'm Harvey Lisbeg, and we've come to give you a 0:34:10.360 --> 0:34:14.759 film offer for peterter noon. And we got and I said, 0:34:14.760 --> 0:34:17.600 there's no way we can't. We fully booked, we haven't 0:34:17.640 --> 0:34:19.879 got time to do it. There's no way we can 0:34:19.920 --> 0:34:24.040 do this. And they said, well, can we come into 0:34:24.080 --> 0:34:26.879 de Elvis? So I invited him in the office. Very embarrassing. 0:34:26.920 --> 0:34:31.439 It wasn't a Santa Monica Fifth Glory office with huge 0:34:31.440 --> 0:34:34.200 windows overlooking the sea. It was an office with no 0:34:34.800 --> 0:34:40.640 windows in it, with the cassettes all over the room, cigarettes, 0:34:40.640 --> 0:34:43.160 god knows what cars. It was just embarrassing. And I 0:34:43.200 --> 0:34:45.719 sat down with him and said, there's no ways. Look 0:34:45.760 --> 0:34:47.719 at the date sheet. There are no way. And he 0:34:47.760 --> 0:34:50.719 looks at the date sheets and he says, well, you've 0:34:50.760 --> 0:34:53.960 got a week there. I said, yeah, but a week. 0:34:55.400 --> 0:34:57.319 I said, no, there's no way. All right, we'll give 0:34:57.320 --> 0:35:01.520 you twenty five thousand dollars for the no, well, we'll 0:35:01.520 --> 0:35:04.719 give you forty five thousand dollars for the two two 0:35:04.840 --> 0:35:08.680 for the two days. Jute and the film was with 0:35:08.840 --> 0:35:13.280 Connie Francis and it's where the Boys Meet the Girls. 0:35:13.360 --> 0:35:16.560 It was completely controlled by the Gershering estate. As far 0:35:16.600 --> 0:35:19.400 as the music was concerned. I think liber Archie was in. 0:35:20.080 --> 0:35:23.840 There were some very were sort of poppy names of 0:35:23.880 --> 0:35:26.520 the time. We're in this film. And he says, there's 0:35:26.520 --> 0:35:30.160 there nothing I could do to entice you into it. 0:35:30.200 --> 0:35:32.800 I said, all right, Cadillac, you got it. Before I 0:35:32.800 --> 0:35:35.279 had finished the sentence, I got it. So I ended 0:35:35.360 --> 0:35:38.440 up with this huge Cadillac. The boys went over and 0:35:38.480 --> 0:35:40.960 then they had to do two songs. Well, the first 0:35:40.960 --> 0:35:44.240 song was where the Boys Meet was a Gershwin number 0:35:44.480 --> 0:35:48.000 I'm Biding My Time, which they did, and the second 0:35:48.080 --> 0:35:50.200 number I think that was offered to them was that 0:35:51.000 --> 0:35:53.560 I think it was a Liberarchie song or something. It 0:35:53.560 --> 0:35:58.319 It was absolutely appalling apparently, and the book and the 0:35:58.360 --> 0:36:01.800 boys refuge used it, can't we do one of ours? 0:36:01.880 --> 0:36:04.759 And they happened to have Listened People, which is a 0:36:04.760 --> 0:36:07.840 Graham Gooman song, which I was involved with at the time, 0:36:08.280 --> 0:36:11.640 so they put that on and that became a huge 0:36:11.680 --> 0:36:14.359 hit in America. I think that might have been our 0:36:14.400 --> 0:36:18.239 second hit. And then Mickey did can't You Hear My Heartbeat, 0:36:18.600 --> 0:36:21.920 which was a hit in England for a band called 0:36:22.440 --> 0:36:25.920 a girl band called Goldie I think, who was managed 0:36:25.920 --> 0:36:30.640 by Mike Jeffries, who managed The Animals. Everything is interconnected. 0:36:30.840 --> 0:36:33.879 Everything is no doubt that publishing was with Alan klin 0:36:34.000 --> 0:36:38.160 or There's always something weird was going on in the background. 0:36:38.200 --> 0:36:44.560 But I was very I'm trying to say I accepted 0:36:44.640 --> 0:36:48.480 the fact that everything was not correct. My aim was 0:36:48.520 --> 0:36:50.080 to get the band to be the biggest band of 0:36:50.080 --> 0:36:54.160 the world, and if the attorney was shaving off five 0:36:54.200 --> 0:36:56.520 percent or this, that and the other, it didn't really 0:36:56.560 --> 0:36:58.839 concern me as long as I got to where I 0:36:58.880 --> 0:37:02.120 wanted to get. So everybody said, what're you using him for? He? 0:37:02.400 --> 0:37:04.719 Why is Alan Kline? What are you crazy? You know? 0:37:05.360 --> 0:37:09.120 But I used Alan Kline knowing that it might not 0:37:09.200 --> 0:37:11.799 all be good. But I was using him as much 0:37:11.840 --> 0:37:12.719 as he was using me. 0:37:13.920 --> 0:37:16.880 Tell me more about Alan klin horror story. 0:37:17.320 --> 0:37:21.160 I went to his office, his small man, small man complex, 0:37:23.760 --> 0:37:28.400 very self opinionated, and he has his office. His desk 0:37:28.480 --> 0:37:31.600 is elevated by about four feet, so anybody's sitting down 0:37:31.760 --> 0:37:34.480 is looking at him, looking at God or the Buddha 0:37:34.600 --> 0:37:37.479 or whatever. And he actually got out of the desk 0:37:37.560 --> 0:37:40.759 and walked round behind me. And if I tell you, 0:37:40.760 --> 0:37:44.360 he had the worst breath I have ever known anybody 0:37:44.360 --> 0:37:47.040 in the world. I mean, it was horrendous to such 0:37:47.080 --> 0:37:49.560 an extent that I got out a piece of chewing 0:37:49.600 --> 0:37:50.920 him and I said, do you want a piece of 0:37:51.000 --> 0:37:53.960 chewing him? And his reply was, I know I've got 0:37:54.000 --> 0:37:58.120 bad breath. It's totally intentional. And at that stage I 0:37:58.160 --> 0:38:01.600 know I was talking to a monster, you know he was, 0:38:01.640 --> 0:38:07.640 and he is unbelievable. I mean, he was ruthless. I 0:38:07.680 --> 0:38:10.759 didn't like him, particularly because I had to be careful 0:38:11.200 --> 0:38:16.040 that he wouldn't take herman's hermits away or start causing trouble, 0:38:16.239 --> 0:38:18.960 as he did with every band he got involved with. 0:38:19.239 --> 0:38:22.160 It was never a smooth ride. There's always a problem, 0:38:22.200 --> 0:38:24.440 whether it would be the Beatles, rolling Stones, there was 0:38:24.440 --> 0:38:28.279 always trouble and eventually they all booting him out eventually, 0:38:28.640 --> 0:38:31.160 So you know. On the other hand, he was an 0:38:31.200 --> 0:38:34.480 accountant in a record company. He'd seen how the record 0:38:34.480 --> 0:38:37.959 companies have been exploiting all the artists and it used 0:38:38.000 --> 0:38:44.440 it and rather cleverly. But when I discussed the breath 0:38:44.480 --> 0:38:48.279 thing with you, it shows to what extent he would 0:38:48.520 --> 0:38:53.719 go to get what he wanted. I don't like it particularly. 0:38:54.200 --> 0:38:57.920 Okay, what was your management style? I know some English 0:38:57.960 --> 0:39:02.719 managers were there tutorial relative to the acts. What I'm 0:39:02.760 --> 0:39:06.520 asking is to what degree were you involved in decisions 0:39:06.800 --> 0:39:09.600 and did the band listen to you and accept what 0:39:09.640 --> 0:39:10.479 you had to say? 0:39:10.680 --> 0:39:14.319 Absolutely, the band were fantastic. They did everything that was 0:39:14.480 --> 0:39:19.920 wanted of them. I did everything, deployed agents, managers, publicity agents. 0:39:20.600 --> 0:39:22.400 When Peter went to America, I had to go to 0:39:22.440 --> 0:39:27.200 bow Street Magistrates Court to be their guardian in America 0:39:27.520 --> 0:39:32.239 in loco parentis. While John Lennon was feeding the young 0:39:32.360 --> 0:39:37.000 Peter Noon switching Roum and Cokes for Coca Colas in 0:39:37.120 --> 0:39:41.040 nightclubs in London. That wasn't my job in America. I 0:39:41.040 --> 0:39:43.319 had to look after and be very careful, and we 0:39:43.360 --> 0:39:48.040 had a lot of I liked every one of that. 0:39:48.120 --> 0:39:51.000 They were all from very nice backgrounds. The band, they 0:39:51.000 --> 0:39:53.759 were nice. They're all from nice people. And in fact, 0:39:53.840 --> 0:39:56.080 when they had the success, I arranged for all the 0:39:56.200 --> 0:39:59.879 parents and then to go to Hawaii for two weeks. 0:40:00.680 --> 0:40:03.360 We had a fantastic trip to celebrate all our success. 0:40:03.600 --> 0:40:06.680 So I always involved the parents. I knew the parents. 0:40:08.200 --> 0:40:10.960 They were nice, that Peter was a great boy, he 0:40:11.080 --> 0:40:12.839 was a I mean, they were all were I mean, 0:40:13.440 --> 0:40:15.920 they were just nice people. I don't have had a 0:40:15.920 --> 0:40:17.879 problem with him. We were all in love with each 0:40:17.920 --> 0:40:21.120 other and the business, and we were very young and 0:40:21.560 --> 0:40:25.160 so much success and you know, more success maybe than 0:40:25.200 --> 0:40:27.839 we deserved, but we got it and we were there. 0:40:27.880 --> 0:40:30.239 We were number one in America, beat the Beatles in 0:40:30.360 --> 0:40:34.160 nineteen sixty five, four weeks at number one, keeping Help 0:40:34.200 --> 0:40:36.520 off the chart. I mean, it's ridiculous when you think 0:40:36.560 --> 0:40:39.040 of it. I mean, Missus Brown was done in a 0:40:39.160 --> 0:40:43.799 flash one take in a studio and voices and every 0:40:43.920 --> 0:40:47.200 mixed together. It wasn't even separated. It was a throwaway 0:40:47.200 --> 0:40:49.520 track on the end of the album, which Mickey was 0:40:49.640 --> 0:40:52.400 adamant not to go out as a single. And the 0:40:52.440 --> 0:40:56.239 story there was MGM said they would prepay on six 0:40:56.320 --> 0:41:00.440 hundred thousand records if he allowed them to put it 0:41:00.480 --> 0:41:04.720 out as a single. They said, no, eight hundred thousand, 0:41:04.920 --> 0:41:08.720 No a million. Okay, if you pay me on a million, 0:41:08.760 --> 0:41:11.320 you can put it out now. The DJs in the meanwhile, 0:41:11.320 --> 0:41:13.360 they've been playing the back off this thing. I mean, 0:41:13.440 --> 0:41:15.800 it was everywhere we went. We were doing Dick Clark 0:41:15.840 --> 0:41:21.280 Caravan of Tours Stars and everywhere we went the DJs 0:41:21.320 --> 0:41:24.160 were playing this track on on and on. So it 0:41:24.280 --> 0:41:27.080 entered the Billboard at number twelve, which was the highest 0:41:27.200 --> 0:41:29.640 entry at that stage of any racked as a single 0:41:29.800 --> 0:41:31.799 at that stage, and it went from twelve to three 0:41:31.800 --> 0:41:34.200 to one, stayed at one for four weeks. And I 0:41:34.320 --> 0:41:37.400 was I was in a situation where I didn't think 0:41:37.440 --> 0:41:39.920 I could go wrong. I had Graham Goldman, who we 0:41:39.960 --> 0:41:42.279 will talk about, no doubt, but you know I was 0:41:42.320 --> 0:41:45.000 having hit after hit, Peter was having it after it, 0:41:45.040 --> 0:41:47.440 Mickey Moses having hit after hit. I mean were and 0:41:47.560 --> 0:41:50.279 money didn't mean anything. Do you know. I wasn't being 0:41:50.320 --> 0:41:53.960 careful and I just thought, well whatever, I was playing roulette, 0:41:54.040 --> 0:41:57.719 winning a roulette. Everything that could possibly go right as 0:41:57.719 --> 0:42:01.279 far as money was concerned, to happen all at once 0:42:01.440 --> 0:42:06.240 during that time. Yeah, so what can I say? 0:42:12.360 --> 0:42:16.440 Okay, Usually at some point the band wakes up and says, 0:42:16.800 --> 0:42:22.000 where's my money? And especially because Herman's Hermides didn't write 0:42:22.040 --> 0:42:26.160 the songs and royalty reads were low. Most of the 0:42:26.239 --> 0:42:30.840 money was from roadwork and it was split multiple ways. 0:42:30.880 --> 0:42:34.560 Never happened, Never happened. We've got a million dollar deal 0:42:34.600 --> 0:42:39.040 with MGM three film deal for a million dollars, which 0:42:39.080 --> 0:42:44.000 in those days was fortune, and we signed that and 0:42:44.040 --> 0:42:46.600 they were secure for a lot. They had everything they needed. 0:42:47.040 --> 0:42:48.880 They never bitched about. 0:42:48.640 --> 0:42:51.280 Money, and what was your deal with the band? 0:42:52.480 --> 0:42:56.600 Twenty five percent out of which ten years to go 0:42:56.719 --> 0:43:00.400 to the agency, so at fifteen, which I split with 0:43:00.480 --> 0:43:03.400 Charlie originally and he left after three years, and I 0:43:03.640 --> 0:43:07.960 carried on at that rate because in the meantime I'd 0:43:08.000 --> 0:43:10.840 brought into the agency, so it had it all together, 0:43:10.920 --> 0:43:13.480 always on a twenty five percent rate. They never seemed 0:43:13.520 --> 0:43:16.719 to bother about it never queried it or anything. But 0:43:16.800 --> 0:43:18.920 I think when you think where they came from, I mean, 0:43:18.960 --> 0:43:21.080 I suppose you could say the same about all acts, 0:43:21.360 --> 0:43:25.120 but where they came from and where they got it 0:43:25.160 --> 0:43:28.040 would be very difficult for them to say the money 0:43:28.120 --> 0:43:30.440 wasn't worth it, you know. I mean, I did do 0:43:30.520 --> 0:43:34.560 a well. I don't want to praise myself, but it 0:43:34.600 --> 0:43:36.640 was a spectacular success story. 0:43:37.800 --> 0:43:43.359 Okay, So did you always travel with the band and 0:43:43.440 --> 0:43:46.759 you we no? When did you travel? When did you 0:43:46.880 --> 0:43:47.480 not travel? 0:43:48.760 --> 0:43:53.160 I traveled to certain I had a partner, Charlie, that 0:43:53.200 --> 0:43:55.280 traveled with the band a lot. We split it together 0:43:55.360 --> 0:43:59.279 a bit. I then am somebody that was working in 0:43:59.280 --> 0:44:03.959 the accountant who looked like David Neven with a white 0:44:03.960 --> 0:44:06.680 handkerchief and suit, called John Wright. He was the head 0:44:06.719 --> 0:44:08.839 of the phone club, and I used to get him 0:44:08.840 --> 0:44:12.640 to go to various places Eastern Europe, or Germany, Singapore. 0:44:13.000 --> 0:44:15.279 I couldn't be I couldn't do everything at all at 0:44:15.280 --> 0:44:17.800 the same time, because I was starting to get involved 0:44:17.880 --> 0:44:20.880 with other acts as well. But my main act, obviously 0:44:20.920 --> 0:44:23.560 was Homan Sermons. I went to the obviously when they 0:44:23.600 --> 0:44:25.719 were doing the film, I went filming and I went 0:44:25.760 --> 0:44:27.680 on a lot of the American dates. Any date that 0:44:27.760 --> 0:44:30.839 was important, La or something like that, or New York, 0:44:30.960 --> 0:44:33.600 I would be there. And I lived in America for 0:44:33.640 --> 0:44:36.000 a while. Yeah, that's right. I learned for about six 0:44:36.040 --> 0:44:39.960 months in America in that sixty five period, So I 0:44:40.000 --> 0:44:42.560 was around because a lot of our stuff was in America. 0:44:43.560 --> 0:44:46.880 How did you prevent the act getting stolen from you? 0:44:47.360 --> 0:44:49.200 Well, you had to have somebody there all the time. 0:44:49.520 --> 0:44:54.120 And if Alan Klein is Mickey most well, you don't 0:44:54.120 --> 0:44:57.600 have to worry about anybody else. That's number one, because 0:44:57.640 --> 0:44:59.480 if anybody was going to get him, it was going 0:44:59.520 --> 0:45:02.040 to be Alc. I mean, nobody else would get a 0:45:02.200 --> 0:45:05.320 smell in there. And I had a very very very tough, 0:45:05.960 --> 0:45:09.560 very tough attorney called Stephen Wise, who has led Zeppelin's 0:45:09.560 --> 0:45:12.320 attorney who they had a falling out with eventually and 0:45:12.800 --> 0:45:15.439 legal case and god knows, but Steve was a very 0:45:15.480 --> 0:45:19.760 bright operator and between us we protected our interest. 0:45:20.480 --> 0:45:22.160 How did you find Steve Weiss? 0:45:23.600 --> 0:45:28.880 That's a good question. Steve Wise incidentally went out with 0:45:28.920 --> 0:45:32.560 Marilyn Monroe on that was his clon defact. He's very 0:45:32.560 --> 0:45:34.920 good looking. How did I find it? How did I 0:45:35.000 --> 0:45:41.279 get to him? God? Knows well, I don't think it 0:45:41.320 --> 0:45:44.239 was from Frank Barcelona, who was our agent. I don't 0:45:44.280 --> 0:45:48.479 because I don't think Frank liked him very much. I don't. 0:45:48.520 --> 0:45:51.200 I'm sorry, I really, I'll have to Okay, Okay, it's 0:45:51.200 --> 0:45:54.400 a long time ago. This was the beginning of Frank 0:45:54.480 --> 0:45:58.000 Barcelona and Premier Talent. How did you hook up with Frank? 0:45:59.680 --> 0:46:05.800 Well, Frank was friendly with my partner Danny Batsh, who 0:46:08.800 --> 0:46:12.799 the Dick Clark Caravan of Stars came through that. I 0:46:12.840 --> 0:46:17.520 think you know Dick Clark's I'm very vague and my 0:46:17.600 --> 0:46:19.400 memory is very vague on these subjects. 0:46:19.440 --> 0:46:22.320 I really okay, so let me go one step further. 0:46:22.920 --> 0:46:26.319 You know, Frank Barcelona ended up becoming legendary. Was he 0:46:26.400 --> 0:46:29.040 impressive in your day? Was he good or what were 0:46:29.080 --> 0:46:29.719 his skills? 0:46:31.280 --> 0:46:34.120 He was very good. It was good at packaging things. 0:46:34.600 --> 0:46:40.239 He took an act on like the Who, and he decided, right, 0:46:40.280 --> 0:46:46.320 we're going to open for Herman's Hermits, totally incorrect musically. 0:46:47.000 --> 0:46:49.120 He didn't care. He just wanted to get them seen. 0:46:49.200 --> 0:46:51.960 And once they're seen, they're going to make an impact 0:46:52.120 --> 0:46:54.760 and it's down to them. And it was totally brilliant 0:46:54.920 --> 0:46:58.720 and he put them with their owning stones. On certain 0:46:58.840 --> 0:47:02.160 nights we played Dates Herman and the Rolling Stones, and 0:47:03.400 --> 0:47:08.080 trying to think everybody that went on a tour he packaged. 0:47:08.120 --> 0:47:11.040 He was a great packager. He got an act, put 0:47:11.040 --> 0:47:13.080 them on the show, and the next time they went 0:47:13.120 --> 0:47:16.239 out themselves and so forth. And he was very nice guy. 0:47:16.719 --> 0:47:20.440 He was very likable. Nice wife June Harris, who was 0:47:20.480 --> 0:47:24.640 also in the business at the time, pr whatever, and 0:47:24.680 --> 0:47:26.920 they were a good couple, and they were nice people. 0:47:27.520 --> 0:47:30.520 He had a partner called Dick Freeberg, who you know there. 0:47:30.400 --> 0:47:34.000 Was So were you a good manager or were you 0:47:34.120 --> 0:47:37.120 just bumping into things when you're managing Roman's romits? 0:47:39.239 --> 0:47:42.839 No, I think I was quite creative. I think I was. 0:47:43.480 --> 0:47:45.600 I was very involved in a lot of the music 0:47:45.800 --> 0:47:48.600 selection of music, even though a lot of the stuff 0:47:48.680 --> 0:47:52.399 was rejected. I did try and get bus Stop, which 0:47:52.480 --> 0:47:55.640 I had before anybody else to them so rejected by 0:47:55.680 --> 0:47:59.240 Mickey most and other songs Well listen people he did, 0:47:59.719 --> 0:48:03.239 but some people wasn't Nicky's choice. That just happened and 0:48:03.239 --> 0:48:07.680 became a hit. So I don't think Mickey initially recognized 0:48:07.680 --> 0:48:12.360 the brilliance of Graham Gouldman. But there's nothing like success, 0:48:12.920 --> 0:48:15.960 and then eventually he did No Milk Today, and even 0:48:16.000 --> 0:48:18.320 No Milk Today, he didn't put out as a single 0:48:19.000 --> 0:48:21.959 A side in America because there's a kind of huss 0:48:22.080 --> 0:48:25.760 was the A side which was crazy and East West 0:48:25.840 --> 0:48:30.680 was another huge hit. You know, I think, no, I 0:48:30.719 --> 0:48:33.360 think I was pretty good. I always employed the best people. 0:48:33.600 --> 0:48:35.759 I employed a p R. I was Les Perrin. He 0:48:36.080 --> 0:48:39.760 represented Frank Sinatra and then he's represented the Rolling Stones, 0:48:40.000 --> 0:48:42.040 you know, a few small acts. So I'm going to 0:48:42.160 --> 0:48:46.680 him Peter Noon, you know, right, or best photographer, who's 0:48:46.719 --> 0:48:50.040 the best photographer? Go to him, always for the best. 0:48:50.120 --> 0:48:53.279 I was never never frightened of you know, I was 0:48:53.320 --> 0:48:58.439 never frightened of attempting something big. Always always, and even 0:48:58.480 --> 0:49:02.120 the film. We did the film because the guy was 0:49:02.200 --> 0:49:06.320 reputed to have had done some films with Elvis Presley, 0:49:06.960 --> 0:49:10.040 and so he had a pedigree of some sort that 0:49:10.120 --> 0:49:12.920 he wasn't just somebody off the street that's putting together 0:49:13.840 --> 0:49:15.640 a movie, but he was because it was a chick 0:49:15.680 --> 0:49:18.000 flick and it was rubbish. But that's beside the point. 0:49:18.760 --> 0:49:20.760 I didn't know that at the time. So I think 0:49:21.400 --> 0:49:25.880 I think all round, I think I was I was 0:49:25.920 --> 0:49:29.920 pretty salad. You know I didn't do anything illegal. I 0:49:29.960 --> 0:49:33.560 was straight. If somebody did something, I didn't need to 0:49:33.600 --> 0:49:36.080 have a contract, you know. I was as good as 0:49:36.120 --> 0:49:36.560 my words. 0:49:37.120 --> 0:49:39.920 So you didn't have a contract with the Herman's remits. 0:49:40.080 --> 0:49:42.879 I did initially. Yeah, I always had one. We always 0:49:42.880 --> 0:49:45.000 had it on November the fifth. It's the day of 0:49:45.040 --> 0:49:47.879 his birthday. Jay got married to his wife. A year later. 0:49:47.960 --> 0:49:49.520 I got married to my wife on the name of 0:49:49.560 --> 0:49:54.080 the fifth. My wife's mother was November the fifth. Guy 0:49:54.200 --> 0:49:56.640 Fowks blew up that has as a parliament of trapped. 0:49:57.560 --> 0:49:59.440 That was the day. Yes, So we had a three 0:49:59.520 --> 0:50:03.279 year con. We then had a five year contract and 0:50:03.320 --> 0:50:07.840 then I think we parted the last terman and another 0:50:07.880 --> 0:50:10.960 three year contract. We always had a contract with Peter, Yeah, 0:50:10.960 --> 0:50:13.759 I did. And Peter I speak to today, you know, 0:50:13.800 --> 0:50:16.320 I spoke to him yesterday. I mean, he's he's a 0:50:16.400 --> 0:50:20.280 very nice person and he's improved in his performances. Is wonderful. 0:50:20.280 --> 0:50:24.000 He's a great storyteller, you know, he can he's got 0:50:24.000 --> 0:50:25.239 the gift of the blindet as well. 0:50:25.640 --> 0:50:31.920 Absolutely, you mentioned Elvis, so you interacted with the colonel 0:50:31.960 --> 0:50:33.399 and Elvis tell me about that. 0:50:34.160 --> 0:50:38.719 We got off a massive tour in America, but I 0:50:38.760 --> 0:50:42.600 don't know. It was more than America. It was a 0:50:42.600 --> 0:50:45.160 world tour. Anyhow, we ended up, well, let's go to Hawaii. 0:50:45.239 --> 0:50:46.960 Let's have a couple of days there. So we went 0:50:47.000 --> 0:50:50.160 to Hawaii and I get to the hotel there and 0:50:50.200 --> 0:50:53.320 they take one look at Herman's hermits and the manager, 0:50:53.320 --> 0:50:56.480 who is German, she's very sorry, we don't have the 0:50:56.560 --> 0:50:58.399 rooms for you. So what do you mean you don't 0:50:58.400 --> 0:51:02.400 have the rooms. We've got reservation in Hawaii. If the 0:51:02.440 --> 0:51:05.359 people don't leave the rooms, they can't be pushed out. 0:51:06.080 --> 0:51:09.560 This is the law of Hawaii and I've stud there. 0:51:09.640 --> 0:51:12.040 So I said to the group, put all your equipment 0:51:12.160 --> 0:51:15.240 on the front of the cahal. It's a beautiful entrance. 0:51:15.560 --> 0:51:19.640 So from thirty feet there was masses of equipment and cases. 0:51:20.040 --> 0:51:23.200 Ten people with all the cases right across, so nobody 0:51:23.239 --> 0:51:25.600 could get him. And I phoned up tom Off at 0:51:25.600 --> 0:51:28.239 the DJ and I said, can we what we're going 0:51:28.320 --> 0:51:30.279 to do? We can't get in. There are no rooms. Oh, 0:51:30.360 --> 0:51:33.040 come and stay with me, I said, there, I said, 0:51:33.040 --> 0:51:35.919 I've got nineteen rooms. I live in a mission house. 0:51:35.960 --> 0:51:38.120 Don't worry about it. So we stayed with him. He 0:51:38.239 --> 0:51:40.799 used to put every show on, and he put Elvis on, 0:51:41.239 --> 0:51:45.279 so he'd obviously told the colonel, why didn't you ask 0:51:45.440 --> 0:51:49.839 Carvey to come and meet Elvis? And I got I 0:51:49.840 --> 0:51:51.840 got in the room and there was an you know, 0:51:51.960 --> 0:51:55.320 and for some reason there was a notice that Elvis 0:51:55.360 --> 0:51:57.719 and the Colonel would like to meet you and the Hermits. 0:51:58.640 --> 0:52:05.120 Well okay, so I wasn't going to say no, great. Uh. 0:52:05.960 --> 0:52:09.640 There were photographs taken of that event, and for some reason, 0:52:10.280 --> 0:52:15.920 Keith Hotwood wasn't on the photograph, and neither was Carl Green. 0:52:16.760 --> 0:52:20.799 And I could never understand why why weren't they there? 0:52:21.440 --> 0:52:23.680 And I spoke to Keith about three weeks ago and 0:52:23.719 --> 0:52:26.560 he said they kept changing this date for us to 0:52:26.600 --> 0:52:29.279 go out there. And I was so fed up being 0:52:29.320 --> 0:52:31.560 away from home. I decided to go home because I 0:52:31.600 --> 0:52:34.400 never thought it was going to happen. Anyhow, it did happen. 0:52:34.680 --> 0:52:38.280 We went to the the went to the Polynesian village 0:52:38.920 --> 0:52:42.239 whether than beautiful Hut, a bit like the catch Bull 0:52:42.280 --> 0:52:45.279 at four, you know, so far in the Sweet Cat 0:52:45.320 --> 0:52:49.160 Stevens thing, all those huts, you know, lovely hut, And 0:52:49.200 --> 0:52:53.680 there was Elvis. He has white trousers on bear down 0:52:53.760 --> 0:52:59.440 to the nothing underneath, no shoes, nothing, and the colonel 0:52:59.520 --> 0:53:04.360 comes in. He said, ah, a fat Brian Epstein, I thought, great, 0:53:04.560 --> 0:53:06.720 I need this like a hole in. That was true. 0:53:06.880 --> 0:53:11.560 I was fat for everybody else. Anyhow, we had a 0:53:11.640 --> 0:53:15.600 chat with Elvis. If Elvis stood up six henchmen dressed 0:53:15.640 --> 0:53:19.560 exactly the same, with the same houstyle, same brookriam, everything 0:53:19.840 --> 0:53:22.640 all stood up together. Everything was. It was the king, 0:53:22.960 --> 0:53:25.720 so everybody had to do what the king did. He farted. 0:53:25.719 --> 0:53:28.319 They're all going to fard. You know, there's no that 0:53:28.320 --> 0:53:33.239 that's what you do. And he and Peter Noom was brilliant, brilliant. 0:53:33.320 --> 0:53:36.040 The first question said how come you made it without 0:53:36.080 --> 0:53:40.640 long hair, which is and so Elvis said, well maybe 0:53:40.680 --> 0:53:43.239 my side Boon's helped, you know what I mean. It 0:53:43.280 --> 0:53:45.799 was a great It was a great conversation. It was, 0:53:46.160 --> 0:53:48.839 and we got on really well. I'm not convinced how 0:53:48.880 --> 0:53:52.120 well Elvis even knew about Herman's service. I don't know. 0:53:52.560 --> 0:53:54.480 All I know is it was a It was a 0:53:54.480 --> 0:53:56.759 meeting that we milked to hell. And when I got 0:53:56.800 --> 0:53:59.640 back to England, I was doing TV. Somebody that's actually 0:53:59.719 --> 0:54:02.920 matter because nobody did meet meta Alvis. He never been 0:54:02.960 --> 0:54:05.040 to England. He never went to England. 0:54:05.800 --> 0:54:08.600 And what about the colonel. You talk in the book 0:54:08.640 --> 0:54:10.560 about a few conversations with the colonel. 0:54:11.080 --> 0:54:15.520 Oh, the colonel is unbelievable, great, and he is responsible. 0:54:15.760 --> 0:54:20.080 He's much maligned. He's responsible for merchandising as we know it. 0:54:21.960 --> 0:54:25.319 There was a some he telled me. I think there 0:54:25.400 --> 0:54:28.360 was some gig in Carolina where I don't know that 0:54:28.480 --> 0:54:32.359 fifty thousand people in the forecast was for tremendous torrential rain. 0:54:32.719 --> 0:54:35.200 And the Colonel had spent all night trying to find 0:54:35.200 --> 0:54:37.920 out where he could buy umbrellas. I mean, this was 0:54:38.160 --> 0:54:40.600 the head of the man was incredible. There was a 0:54:41.000 --> 0:54:44.080 film that Elvis Presley was in and when they'd finished, 0:54:44.160 --> 0:54:47.000 the Colonel had said to the heads of MGM, by 0:54:47.040 --> 0:54:49.840 the way, did you get permission to use that watch 0:54:49.880 --> 0:54:54.000 that Elvis was wearing? And they looked to no, Well, 0:54:54.400 --> 0:54:56.600 either you take it out of every scene, or you 0:54:56.640 --> 0:54:59.719 give me quarter of a million dollars quarter a million dollars, 0:54:59.760 --> 0:55:03.520 thank you very much. I mean, he was who's he was. 0:55:04.680 --> 0:55:07.800 He was a showman who was from circus background. He 0:55:08.080 --> 0:55:10.359 told me why he used to get I didn't care 0:55:10.400 --> 0:55:13.719 about opening acts, adding package. I used to get a magician, 0:55:14.360 --> 0:55:17.600 a conjurer with three mice, and they went on for 0:55:17.600 --> 0:55:20.400 forty five minutes and the crowd were going mad, and 0:55:20.440 --> 0:55:23.600 then I boy went on Elvis. Now was it the 0:55:23.719 --> 0:55:26.200 crowd where? I mean it was? It was a total 0:55:26.239 --> 0:55:29.600 opposite to what I was doing when I was trategy, 0:55:29.840 --> 0:55:32.000 what's a good act to get the public? And his 0:55:32.160 --> 0:55:35.240 idea was to bore the people to sick until Elvis 0:55:35.280 --> 0:55:39.160 came on and then he was away and what else? Yeah, 0:55:39.440 --> 0:55:42.239 So when I got to Las Vegas. My final story 0:55:42.280 --> 0:55:45.479 about him, which is my favorite. He was my son 0:55:45.600 --> 0:55:49.880 Paul's twenty first birthday and we were in LA and 0:55:49.920 --> 0:55:51.640 I said, well, what, well, what would you like to 0:55:51.640 --> 0:55:53.319 do for your birthday? He said, I'd like to go 0:55:53.400 --> 0:55:58.279 to Las Vegas. And we were shocked because nobody it 0:55:58.440 --> 0:56:01.719 just wasn't the right place we went, and I said, well, 0:56:01.719 --> 0:56:03.719 I know the colonel lives here. I'll phone him up 0:56:03.719 --> 0:56:05.200 to see whether we can see him. So I'll phone 0:56:05.239 --> 0:56:08.960 up the colonel and he says, Harvey, I'm sorry, I'm 0:56:09.000 --> 0:56:11.759 just going to the dentist at the moment. I'd love 0:56:11.840 --> 0:56:14.480 for you to come, but unfortunate, I've got this. But 0:56:14.560 --> 0:56:17.800 if I get finished earlier, I'll call you. So anyhow, 0:56:18.840 --> 0:56:20.560 I thought, yes, we're not going to hear from him. 0:56:20.680 --> 0:56:23.839 Two hours later, the phone goes, Hi, Harvey, I'm back 0:56:23.880 --> 0:56:26.840 from the I'm back. Do you want to bring the 0:56:26.840 --> 0:56:29.799 boys around so I can meet them? So now I'm panicking. 0:56:30.360 --> 0:56:32.759 Every time I met him, we'd all been in limos. 0:56:32.880 --> 0:56:34.800 I mean when he went in a limo with Elvis, 0:56:34.880 --> 0:56:37.440 there was a Cadillac in front, three behind. It was 0:56:37.520 --> 0:56:40.560 like a processional rub So anyhow, I thought, well, I've 0:56:40.560 --> 0:56:42.520 got to get a limo. I'll go into his house. 0:56:42.600 --> 0:56:45.480 I'll phone up this agency and I said, look, I 0:56:45.480 --> 0:56:48.440 don't want any stretch wheel base, I don't want anything flash. 0:56:48.560 --> 0:56:51.520 I just want an ordinary town car please, and a driver. 0:56:52.360 --> 0:56:56.440 They send this car around. It's a gray, a gray 0:56:56.760 --> 0:56:59.959 town car. It has bullet holes all the way through 0:57:00.080 --> 0:57:03.680 the side of the doors, all through the back. And 0:57:03.719 --> 0:57:05.200 then he drives us up to the house and he 0:57:05.280 --> 0:57:08.640 can't go park. We'll walk up to the house so 0:57:09.320 --> 0:57:13.960 we couldn't show this limo. So such bad, that's my sorny. 0:57:14.360 --> 0:57:17.440 We came in there and he took the boys into 0:57:17.480 --> 0:57:21.200 a room which was filled with photographs of Elvis, with 0:57:21.520 --> 0:57:26.840 every dignitary, every memoraiyalty of the world, to you know, 0:57:27.280 --> 0:57:31.160 to to the King or whatever, you know, every It 0:57:31.240 --> 0:57:34.160 was just amazing. And he spent a lot of time 0:57:34.200 --> 0:57:36.600 with the boys. He really liked them, Philip and Paula, 0:57:36.680 --> 0:57:40.240 my two boys, and he was very kind. And he 0:57:40.320 --> 0:57:43.959 invited me to his ninetieth I think or eighty fifth 0:57:44.000 --> 0:57:46.480 birthday party. One. I couldn't get to the last one. 0:57:46.960 --> 0:57:51.800 But I always liked him, and I hated the interpretation 0:57:51.960 --> 0:57:55.080 of Tom Hanks in the film Elvis. I mean, he 0:57:55.240 --> 0:57:58.040 never had a voice like that at all. He had 0:57:58.040 --> 0:58:01.520 a kind of a sudden drawl or put on sudden draw. 0:58:01.920 --> 0:58:05.360 It was nothing like that thing. And apparently somebody told 0:58:05.400 --> 0:58:08.920 me that the reason Hanks did that voice was because 0:58:08.960 --> 0:58:13.480 they wanted to make him distinctive as being kind of European. 0:58:13.520 --> 0:58:15.760 And I don't know whatever it was, but it was 0:58:15.880 --> 0:58:19.080 very unfair. It was. It was a bad portrayal, I thought, 0:58:19.120 --> 0:58:23.160 I mean really rough. And all I can say to everybody, 0:58:23.560 --> 0:58:25.360 they say, well, he had fifty percent. What do you 0:58:25.400 --> 0:58:27.880 think of that? I said, well, do you think Elvis 0:58:27.920 --> 0:58:32.560 Presley would have had any success without the Colonel? Because 0:58:32.600 --> 0:58:35.520 I don't think he would. He would have children as 0:58:35.560 --> 0:58:37.280 another country singer maybe. 0:58:39.320 --> 0:58:41.560 So how did it end with Hermit Summits. 0:58:42.680 --> 0:58:45.480 Well, Peter decided he wanted to go on his own. 0:58:45.520 --> 0:58:47.960 He was a natural showman. He wanted to become like 0:58:48.040 --> 0:58:50.200 a Tommy Steele. He was always the focal point of 0:58:50.240 --> 0:58:53.080 the band. They were doing then cabaret work because the 0:58:54.240 --> 0:58:58.560 hit side of it had turned not sour, it was quiet, 0:58:58.920 --> 0:59:02.000 and he wanted to be more or more himself and 0:59:02.080 --> 0:59:05.680 be an entertainer like Michael Crawford, Tommy Steele, you know 0:59:05.760 --> 0:59:07.400 that sort of thing. And he could go on and 0:59:07.440 --> 0:59:10.200 the pladium and do his own thing. And Mickey got 0:59:10.240 --> 0:59:13.000 him a song which was a Davy Bowie song, Oh 0:59:13.080 --> 0:59:17.440 You Pretty Thing, and he had a huge So the 0:59:17.520 --> 0:59:21.880 band split on November the fifth, right, the Hermits went 0:59:21.960 --> 0:59:29.120 their own way and it was reasonably amicable. But because 0:59:29.160 --> 0:59:31.680 things weren't that great at that stage, we had no 0:59:31.760 --> 0:59:34.520 success in America at all. That had sort of dried 0:59:34.520 --> 0:59:38.560 it completely. But Oh You Pretty Things became a hit 0:59:38.600 --> 0:59:40.640 in England, and when it came to doing it on 0:59:40.680 --> 0:59:44.120 Top of the Pops, David Bowie himself played on the 0:59:44.200 --> 0:59:49.520 set because Musicians' Union regulations that people that played on 0:59:49.520 --> 0:59:52.120 the record either had to be on it or had 0:59:52.160 --> 0:59:55.280 to something to do with unions, and he came all 0:59:55.400 --> 0:59:59.040 dressed in as David bib. We dressed totally out of it, 0:59:59.080 --> 1:00:01.880 and there was Peter both on the same thing. And 1:00:01.920 --> 1:00:05.160 I met David bow who was very charming, very nice person, 1:00:05.640 --> 1:00:09.320 very really nice. I found it very nice. You can 1:00:09.360 --> 1:00:11.720 only find people where they found them. I mean I've 1:00:11.760 --> 1:00:14.240 even found people that like Alan Klin. So you know, 1:00:15.040 --> 1:00:17.520 it's how you found somebody and how you deal with them. 1:00:17.800 --> 1:00:20.800 It's because you found them to be abhorrent or whatever. 1:00:21.040 --> 1:00:23.680 It doesn't mean to say they are. My other favorite 1:00:23.680 --> 1:00:24.840 manager was Peter Grant. 1:00:24.840 --> 1:00:27.720 Of course, well okay, you bring them up. Tell us 1:00:27.720 --> 1:00:29.040 a little bit about Peter Grant. 1:00:29.560 --> 1:00:32.480 Well, I was in America and Queen were looking for management. 1:00:33.040 --> 1:00:36.240 So I said to Peter, you manage led Zeppelin. I 1:00:36.320 --> 1:00:40.040 managed Herman serrmitson now Tennessee c how can we not 1:00:40.560 --> 1:00:45.360 get a management contract if we've joined forces? And we 1:00:45.400 --> 1:00:50.080 went to meet them. Meanwhile, I'd been sending tickets to 1:00:51.040 --> 1:00:54.720 write Taylor for Wimbledon. He loved tennis. I used to 1:00:54.800 --> 1:01:00.960 send him tickets always getnis and John Paul now getting 1:01:01.000 --> 1:01:02.720 mixed up no, not John poured downs. Of course. Now, 1:01:03.440 --> 1:01:08.080 I'd seen Freddie a few times early in when he 1:01:08.120 --> 1:01:11.200 was fifteen. I saw him at Kensington Market, film maker, 1:01:11.800 --> 1:01:15.439 nails polished and everything, and I said, somebody, who's that, 1:01:15.840 --> 1:01:18.280 Oh it's Freddy And he was exactly the same as 1:01:18.320 --> 1:01:21.720 he was ten seven years later. Freddie was Freddy even then. 1:01:22.120 --> 1:01:24.280 So going back to her that they had the meeting, 1:01:24.680 --> 1:01:27.760 Jim Beach was the person that was the accountant and 1:01:27.800 --> 1:01:31.440 he was holding the meeting the four members, myself and Peter, 1:01:32.240 --> 1:01:37.240 and they rejected us. So I couldn't believe it. And 1:01:37.440 --> 1:01:40.439 also Peter was just about to form his label, Swan Song, 1:01:41.040 --> 1:01:43.800 and I think he wanted them to be on that label. 1:01:44.160 --> 1:01:48.080 And I'm not sure whether the reason they turned us 1:01:48.120 --> 1:01:50.640 down was maybe because they didn't want to go on 1:01:50.680 --> 1:01:55.600 Swan Song anyhow, which I wouldn't have minded, or I 1:01:55.600 --> 1:01:57.160 don't think it would have been the ideal for them. 1:01:57.160 --> 1:01:58.880 I think we could have done better than doing that. 1:01:59.000 --> 1:02:03.640 But you know, so Peter and I got really friendly, 1:02:03.880 --> 1:02:10.120 and they employed John Reid as the manager Queen and 1:02:10.160 --> 1:02:12.880 then he slunk him out after two years, and then 1:02:12.960 --> 1:02:15.960 Jim Beach became the manager and to this day he 1:02:16.040 --> 1:02:19.320 still manages them. He's in Switzerland, I don't know, obviously 1:02:19.320 --> 1:02:22.080 in his eighties, but and he's ever since that day. 1:02:22.760 --> 1:02:27.200 And I met Roger Taylor coincidentally at what was meant 1:02:27.240 --> 1:02:30.840 to be Paul McCartney's last concert ever about ten years ago, 1:02:31.280 --> 1:02:33.080 which was an extra date put on the end of 1:02:33.080 --> 1:02:36.440 the last tour in Inverted Commerce at Liverpool at the 1:02:36.480 --> 1:02:39.160 Albert Dock, and I was sitting next to Roger Taylor 1:02:39.200 --> 1:02:40.800 and he turned around and says, have you got any 1:02:40.840 --> 1:02:47.240 Wimbledon tickets? Which is amazing how people remember things. I mean, 1:02:47.240 --> 1:02:50.800 it was, it was just great. And I really liked 1:02:50.880 --> 1:02:53.640 Queen by the way. I didn't when I was young, 1:02:54.240 --> 1:02:57.320 because when I had TENNCC they were like I would 1:02:57.360 --> 1:03:00.000 saying to myself, what are you playing that rubbish? Use 1:03:00.080 --> 1:03:03.160 was playing Queen Killer Queen Back to Florence, and oh 1:03:03.200 --> 1:03:06.640 it's rubbish. But afterwards I began to love them. And 1:03:06.640 --> 1:03:09.720 we've actually promoted them as well a few times in England. 1:03:10.080 --> 1:03:13.920 But Freddie Mercury was probably my favorite showman of the 1:03:13.960 --> 1:03:16.000 last century. 1:03:21.720 --> 1:03:26.200 Okay, but Peter Grant certainly previously been a wrestler. 1:03:26.200 --> 1:03:30.120 He's a big guy, hundred pounds, was. 1:03:30.120 --> 1:03:34.000 He winning an intimidation or was he really that sharp? 1:03:37.080 --> 1:03:40.960 Wow, that's a loaded question, they said, you'd asked questions 1:03:41.080 --> 1:03:43.560 like this. Well, first of all, he had he worked 1:03:43.600 --> 1:03:46.439 in the same office as Mickey most so I haven't 1:03:46.480 --> 1:03:51.640 done very well. His first hit was Winchester Cathedral, the 1:03:52.120 --> 1:03:55.680 New Vaudeville Band, and he had that, and he was 1:03:55.720 --> 1:03:59.120 the road manager for Gen Vincent. And he told me 1:03:59.160 --> 1:04:04.200 some great stories of about Jean Vincent. He was very sweet. 1:04:05.520 --> 1:04:09.000 He had this exterior that was like a gorilla but 1:04:09.120 --> 1:04:13.480 at the time and I just and I had all 1:04:13.520 --> 1:04:16.520 the stories about him, people hanging from the windows and 1:04:16.560 --> 1:04:22.280 god knows what to get money. But I never came 1:04:22.320 --> 1:04:24.600 across that. I came across the other side of him. 1:04:25.000 --> 1:04:27.320 He came to our house for dinner. My wife Carol 1:04:27.400 --> 1:04:32.840 was the most wonderful, wonderful gormet chef, and she did 1:04:32.840 --> 1:04:36.960 a side of beef fifty pounds. He came in, he 1:04:37.040 --> 1:04:40.320 sat down on a chair, broke the chair, and then 1:04:40.360 --> 1:04:42.000 we put him back up again, and he at the 1:04:42.040 --> 1:04:44.919 whole side of beef himself, and he says, I've got 1:04:44.920 --> 1:04:46.880 tickets for you to go to the Free Trade Hall 1:04:47.280 --> 1:04:50.320 to see led Zeppelin. And I said, okay, have you 1:04:50.360 --> 1:04:52.800 got any cotton wool in the house? I said, what 1:04:53.840 --> 1:04:57.800 cotton wool? So why? He says, well, i'll give you 1:04:57.840 --> 1:05:02.560 impression you are to eat. Therefore rows in front of 1:05:02.600 --> 1:05:04.880 the base speaking and I don't think you were going 1:05:04.960 --> 1:05:10.479 to like that anyhow, and then we went. We've met 1:05:10.600 --> 1:05:14.200 many occasions and my favorite story, which is in the book, 1:05:14.760 --> 1:05:18.200 I love this one. We're in La both at the 1:05:18.240 --> 1:05:22.000 Beverly Hillton Hotel and we decide we're going to go 1:05:22.080 --> 1:05:26.320 out for dinner. And he liked steak, so I said, well, 1:05:26.320 --> 1:05:28.560 there's a restaurant called Larry's, which is the best steak 1:05:28.600 --> 1:05:31.320 there is. And my parents were staying there. I was 1:05:31.360 --> 1:05:34.520 with my parents. Let's all go together. So I went 1:05:34.600 --> 1:05:36.800 with my parents and he was following on and I 1:05:36.880 --> 1:05:39.760 got to the door of the restaurant. A very stuffy 1:05:40.040 --> 1:05:42.360 matre d ontwer the door, and he says, oh, you 1:05:42.400 --> 1:05:44.880 can't come in without a jacket. And of course, with 1:05:44.960 --> 1:05:47.400 my arrogance, I said, well you get me one, you know, 1:05:47.640 --> 1:05:50.280 And that was me. It was horrible, but that was me. 1:05:50.440 --> 1:05:52.280 You get me one. And he comes back with his 1:05:52.320 --> 1:05:55.240 seasucker jacket and I put it on and I said 1:05:55.280 --> 1:05:58.320 by the way, he says, yes, I said that our 1:05:58.400 --> 1:06:01.280 next the last person in the pot to arrive. You 1:06:01.400 --> 1:06:03.600 might not be able to accommodate him with a jacket. 1:06:03.840 --> 1:06:07.240 We can fit anybody. Don't you worry about it. We 1:06:07.360 --> 1:06:10.200 got it all covered. Peter Graham walks through the door 1:06:10.360 --> 1:06:15.880 and he says, I pass, Yeah, that's Peter. 1:06:16.040 --> 1:06:19.200 Totally hilarious. Okay, So how do you meet Graham Goldman? 1:06:19.720 --> 1:06:25.600 Graham Goodman, Lol Crean, Kevin Godley and myself all lived 1:06:25.760 --> 1:06:31.080 in the North Manchester Jewish ghetto within one and a 1:06:31.080 --> 1:06:35.560 half miles of each other. So that's everybody knew everybody 1:06:35.680 --> 1:06:39.680 virtually in that community. So and Graham was in a 1:06:39.720 --> 1:06:44.040 band called the Whirlwinds, which was an exceptionally good kind 1:06:44.040 --> 1:06:49.120 of show band type of thing that played very unusual stuff. 1:06:49.160 --> 1:06:53.320 They played all the Italian songs of which were inundating 1:06:53.400 --> 1:06:57.760 England Marino, Marini, Kondo, Kondo, Kwonda, all those type of songs, 1:06:58.120 --> 1:07:02.440 played them very nicely, and finished off with Alexander's ragtime 1:07:02.520 --> 1:07:05.280 band with all the hands going you know at the end. 1:07:05.360 --> 1:07:10.160 And Brain was a phenomenal guitarist. And I went to 1:07:10.200 --> 1:07:12.240 see them at the Jewish Lads Brigade it was a month. 1:07:12.320 --> 1:07:13.959 I think it was Monday night the US. 1:07:15.000 --> 1:07:17.720 What exactly was the Jewish Lads Brigade. 1:07:18.200 --> 1:07:22.120 It was like a place like the YMCA where people 1:07:22.160 --> 1:07:25.440 would go the Jewish who looked after it, like a 1:07:25.480 --> 1:07:29.200 youth center where there were camps and football arrange and 1:07:29.240 --> 1:07:32.040 all sorts of things for Jewish people to the kids 1:07:32.080 --> 1:07:35.520 to go to. And they would practice there because there 1:07:35.560 --> 1:07:37.360 was a hall there. It was a good place for 1:07:37.400 --> 1:07:40.720 them to practice their equipment. And I went there, and 1:07:40.800 --> 1:07:42.960 I don't know why I went there, and I've been 1:07:43.000 --> 1:07:45.320 trying to find out why I went there. It was 1:07:45.400 --> 1:07:47.360 I was an accountant. I had nothing to do with 1:07:47.400 --> 1:07:51.360 the music business other than I love music. And I 1:07:51.400 --> 1:07:53.720 asked Phil Cohen, who was one of the lead singers 1:07:53.720 --> 1:07:57.200 of the band, about two weeks ago, I said, why 1:07:57.320 --> 1:08:00.000 was I there? And he said, well, none of us 1:08:00.120 --> 1:08:02.840 knew why you were there, and none of us knew 1:08:02.920 --> 1:08:06.200 you except me because I played football with you. So 1:08:06.320 --> 1:08:08.120 I was the only person. And I don't know why 1:08:08.160 --> 1:08:10.880 you were there. So anyhow, but I was there, and obviously, 1:08:11.440 --> 1:08:15.120 and I got trying to I don't know what it was. 1:08:15.400 --> 1:08:18.439 The manager they had there was a guy called Victor 1:08:18.479 --> 1:08:23.439 Coss and he was very, very arrogant. This band was 1:08:23.560 --> 1:08:26.120 very popular. They had date sheet that was fill you know, 1:08:26.160 --> 1:08:30.400 they played upmarket places. They weren't playing rock and roll places. 1:08:30.400 --> 1:08:37.240 They were playing you know, maybe maybe weddings, maybe you know, 1:08:38.840 --> 1:08:42.040 tennis club dances or whatever. They were. They were very, 1:08:42.160 --> 1:08:46.280 very very They were well paid, and I probably wanted 1:08:46.320 --> 1:08:49.400 to be involved with them somehow. But I can't put 1:08:49.400 --> 1:08:52.400 it together why except that I love Graham and this guy, 1:08:52.479 --> 1:08:54.400 the Victor Call, he was just in his own planet. 1:08:54.760 --> 1:08:57.880 He was just horrendous. And I asked Phil about him 1:08:57.920 --> 1:09:00.519 as well. I said, well, what was he like as 1:09:00.520 --> 1:09:03.559 a manager? Am I being unfair saying he wasn't a 1:09:03.560 --> 1:09:07.680 good manager? He said he wasn't until we signed the contract, 1:09:08.479 --> 1:09:11.519 and I don't know what that means. Meanwhile, I loved 1:09:11.600 --> 1:09:17.400 Graham anyhow. Graham was just amazing guitarist and lived really 1:09:17.439 --> 1:09:20.080 near to me, I mean nearer than the others, and 1:09:21.240 --> 1:09:27.080 I got talking to him and I waited then till 1:09:27.120 --> 1:09:30.519 Herman Summits had had some success and I approached him again. 1:09:30.600 --> 1:09:34.360 I said, well, you know, would you like to join me? 1:09:34.400 --> 1:09:37.200 Obviously what I can do for you? And maybe you 1:09:37.240 --> 1:09:41.040 should write some songs yourself, you know, because he wasn't 1:09:41.080 --> 1:09:44.120 writing songs in the in that pand particularly I think 1:09:44.120 --> 1:09:47.120 they had a couple of records. Actually one of them 1:09:47.880 --> 1:09:52.200 might have been and are fully brothers. I don't know what. 1:09:52.240 --> 1:09:55.080 Then they did a cover version of something, but it 1:09:55.160 --> 1:09:58.559 didn't do anything. So their band was kind of in 1:09:58.640 --> 1:10:03.320 a to disarray and people were going into their own careers, 1:10:03.880 --> 1:10:06.320 and Graham said, okay, well let's try it. And I 1:10:06.320 --> 1:10:09.759 met his father, who is a very nice man called himI, 1:10:10.200 --> 1:10:15.160 who is a frustrated playwright, absolute genius, beautiful with lyrics, 1:10:16.479 --> 1:10:19.639 very very close. And his mother was lovely, lady Betty, 1:10:20.160 --> 1:10:22.200 and they were a lovely couple, and they she was 1:10:22.320 --> 1:10:25.280 very into theater, so both of them were very theatrical. 1:10:25.920 --> 1:10:29.320 And it was a nice thing. And I got to 1:10:29.360 --> 1:10:32.160 know them and I said, look, would could I look 1:10:32.200 --> 1:10:34.200 after him? And I gave him a few quid a week. 1:10:34.760 --> 1:10:37.960 I was a retainer to you know, keep just good faith. 1:10:38.520 --> 1:10:41.000 And I did that with Kevin Law. I did that 1:10:41.040 --> 1:10:43.439 with they did a mural for me. I just kept 1:10:43.479 --> 1:10:46.960 everybody in work because money was flowing through me. Like 1:10:46.960 --> 1:10:48.920 like I said to you, it was a joke, you know, 1:10:48.920 --> 1:10:51.800 I couldn't give it away quick enough. Rice Weber as well. 1:10:51.840 --> 1:10:53.400 We talked about I put them on a dealer, I 1:10:53.400 --> 1:10:58.639 mean everybody that came and Graham. Graham was very close. 1:10:58.680 --> 1:11:03.479 He was like a brother, and we started writing together, 1:11:03.520 --> 1:11:06.800 and then I was involved in the writing. We used 1:11:06.840 --> 1:11:09.280 to go nine till five every day to his little 1:11:09.320 --> 1:11:12.519 flat and we used to just plod along, playing things, 1:11:13.040 --> 1:11:16.200 taking things out. I was acting like more as an editor. 1:11:16.520 --> 1:11:19.000 He'd plays something. I said, well, that's great play that. 1:11:19.200 --> 1:11:21.760 Why do you change that? And we had this break 1:11:21.800 --> 1:11:24.960 where it wasn't a brain wave house. The Rising Sun 1:11:25.120 --> 1:11:28.000 was so big, I mean it was just everybody had 1:11:28.000 --> 1:11:29.920 a guitar was playing it. I said, why do you 1:11:29.960 --> 1:11:32.960 write a song on those four chords? And he said, 1:11:32.960 --> 1:11:38.160 and surreptitiously he changed the last chord minimally and then 1:11:38.200 --> 1:11:40.200 wrote for your Love And then in the middle, I said, 1:11:40.240 --> 1:11:42.240 well we need something different in the middle. Can you 1:11:42.320 --> 1:11:44.640 do anything? And he broke it into the rock and 1:11:44.720 --> 1:11:47.479 roll part of it, and then it finished it and 1:11:47.520 --> 1:11:49.760 I heard it and I thought, number one, there is 1:11:49.840 --> 1:11:53.000 no question. I was absolutely convinced going to take that 1:11:53.000 --> 1:11:55.160 to the Beatles. They can do it. I had very 1:11:55.439 --> 1:11:58.639 like I said, I don't think small, and Graham looked 1:11:58.680 --> 1:12:00.920 at me as, oh, man, yeah, write the Beatles. You 1:12:00.960 --> 1:12:02.640 know they're not going to And he hadn't handy his 1:12:02.680 --> 1:12:07.920 success at all ready, so you know. But anyhow, I 1:12:08.080 --> 1:12:10.120 decided we'd go and see the Beatles and get it 1:12:10.160 --> 1:12:12.200 to them. So we went to see the Beatles at 1:12:12.200 --> 1:12:16.280 Hammersmith Odeon and the opening up with the Yardbirds, and 1:12:16.320 --> 1:12:19.040 behind me was a publisher called running Back, who was 1:12:19.080 --> 1:12:21.360 a publisher. I said, look, Ronnie, can you do me 1:12:21.400 --> 1:12:23.439 a favor? I've got this demo? Can you go and 1:12:23.479 --> 1:12:26.200 play it to the Beatles? I think that I think 1:12:26.240 --> 1:12:30.960 it's the number one and I'd like to know And 1:12:30.960 --> 1:12:33.519 and he looked at me sheepishly as I'm mad. And 1:12:33.600 --> 1:12:36.080 after the interval he comes back, do you mind very 1:12:36.160 --> 1:12:39.040 much of I play it to the Yardbirds? I said? 1:12:39.040 --> 1:12:41.439 Who are the yard Berds are opening up? No? I 1:12:41.520 --> 1:12:44.120 wanted to go to the Beatles. Who the uppers? The 1:12:44.280 --> 1:12:48.880 armis don't mean shit? Come on? Anyhow, he said, well, 1:12:49.080 --> 1:12:51.360 the manager would like to meet you. And how between 1:12:51.479 --> 1:12:54.639 Georgio Gomelsky and Hem they managed to taught me into 1:12:54.640 --> 1:12:58.000 allowing them to do it. Eric Clapton blew a fit 1:12:59.160 --> 1:13:03.000 He wanted the Yard to be a blues orientated band, 1:13:03.800 --> 1:13:06.800 as most of them were, like Lon John Baldry and 1:13:06.840 --> 1:13:09.320 the Huci Coucie Man, Rod Stewart and the Steam Packet. 1:13:09.600 --> 1:13:12.439 They all played American rhythm and blues and that was it, 1:13:12.760 --> 1:13:15.439 and they were mad on the blues. And Eric Clapton 1:13:15.520 --> 1:13:18.280 didn't want to know about Bloody Graham, Gooman or pop 1:13:18.439 --> 1:13:20.439 or anything. It wasn't where he wanted to go, and 1:13:20.520 --> 1:13:23.240 he subsequently left the band. They've got a few small 1:13:23.280 --> 1:13:26.280 people in there, didn't they. Jeff Beck, a few other 1:13:26.720 --> 1:13:29.559 miners came into the band, but that so For Your 1:13:29.600 --> 1:13:33.559 Love went out. Georgio taught me into it. He used 1:13:33.640 --> 1:13:37.120 I think Brian August. They used some very he did 1:13:37.200 --> 1:13:40.000 some very nice things the harpsichord on. It was very 1:13:40.120 --> 1:13:46.320 clever and it was a very again it was it 1:13:46.640 --> 1:13:49.640 had atmosphere, you know, certain records like I'm Not in 1:13:49.760 --> 1:13:53.920 Love bahem in Rhapsody MacArthur Park, they've got atmosphere, and 1:13:54.000 --> 1:13:56.439 that for Your Love at the time, for what it was, 1:13:56.560 --> 1:14:00.080 it had that atmosphere. Something slightly weird, isn't it. And 1:14:00.200 --> 1:14:03.479 the lyrics, of course weren't done by the Graham. The 1:14:03.600 --> 1:14:06.960 lyrics were high. Miss A seventeen year old doesn't write 1:14:07.560 --> 1:14:09.639 I'd give the moon if it were mine to give. 1:14:10.040 --> 1:14:13.000 I mean, not in the sixteen year old guy from school. 1:14:13.080 --> 1:14:15.400 I might know it. So I'm an artist from his father. 1:14:15.439 --> 1:14:17.759 And it was great. It was a great, great lyric 1:14:18.400 --> 1:14:20.680 And of course then the thing went to number one. 1:14:21.400 --> 1:14:25.280 I mean, as I said, everything I had touched turned 1:14:25.360 --> 1:14:30.320 to gold. I mean, it really did. I should have 1:14:30.439 --> 1:14:34.880 known that things would change, but it was certainly. It 1:14:35.040 --> 1:14:36.600 was certainly a golden era for me. 1:14:37.600 --> 1:14:40.720 So after a four year love, how does the songwriting 1:14:40.840 --> 1:14:41.920 continue with Graham? 1:14:42.840 --> 1:14:44.880 I thought of the titles A Heart full of Soul. 1:14:45.560 --> 1:14:49.000 That's my claim to fame. So technically I'm a co writer, 1:14:49.479 --> 1:14:52.240 and technically I wrote half the lyrics because it's repeated 1:14:52.280 --> 1:14:57.040 about nine times. But other than that, yeah, So I 1:14:57.479 --> 1:15:01.280 got involved. Kevin Lolan was done. Next thing we did, 1:15:01.800 --> 1:15:04.960 and Kevin now brought me beautiful songs. Graham and I 1:15:05.439 --> 1:15:07.960 we were going to publish them, and we we did it. 1:15:08.479 --> 1:15:11.599 We decided we joined the company together myself and Graham 1:15:11.840 --> 1:15:15.240 called our new Music, and I think we also put 1:15:15.360 --> 1:15:17.320 some of Graham's songs in it as well. I think 1:15:17.640 --> 1:15:21.920 maybe even no milk today went in it. And we 1:15:22.200 --> 1:15:24.519 just did that fifty to fifty myself with Graham, so 1:15:24.640 --> 1:15:28.160 it was like it was done with Campbell Connelly. They 1:15:28.200 --> 1:15:31.320 had fifty and we had fifty percent. I was fed 1:15:31.439 --> 1:15:37.639 up about for your love's royalties. Graham was getting fifty percent, 1:15:37.760 --> 1:15:41.719 and then it was fifty percent for Overseas Publishing, which 1:15:41.840 --> 1:15:45.960 was just so that was the end as far as 1:15:46.040 --> 1:15:48.800 I was concerned. And we I just did a heart 1:15:48.880 --> 1:15:51.320 full of soul deal because we didn't have time to 1:15:51.400 --> 1:15:53.559 really and afterwards we said, right, we'll go our own 1:15:53.600 --> 1:15:56.360 publishing company. We're not going through all this nonsense again. 1:15:56.720 --> 1:15:59.080 And that was it and we formed man Well, I 1:15:59.200 --> 1:16:05.040 formed mankm Us in America and that was in sixty 1:16:05.120 --> 1:16:11.360 five or something. And yeah, so that that's what goded 1:16:11.400 --> 1:16:13.040 me to do my own publishing company. 1:16:13.840 --> 1:16:17.680 Okay, So when you put Graham's new songs in that 1:16:17.920 --> 1:16:22.320 publishing company, how was the split? And it was just 1:16:22.439 --> 1:16:23.000 the two of you. 1:16:23.439 --> 1:16:26.880 Yeah, we split and we split the publishing share with 1:16:28.120 --> 1:16:31.880 Cambel Kennelly and then Graham got the writer's share. 1:16:32.439 --> 1:16:35.679 Okay, so you split twenty five and he got fifty 1:16:35.840 --> 1:16:39.840 he got Okay, who owns that stuff? 1:16:39.880 --> 1:16:43.040 Today Campbell and Early brought it back and it's bought 1:16:43.080 --> 1:16:47.320 by Wise Music. Now it's gone down the chain. You know, 1:16:47.680 --> 1:16:50.439 Campbell Cannelley was sold, this was so and acquired and 1:16:50.560 --> 1:16:51.000 so forth. 1:16:51.040 --> 1:16:53.599 Well, I guess what I'm saying. Have you sold your 1:16:53.720 --> 1:16:54.439 share and as well? 1:16:54.479 --> 1:16:56.840 Now I sell my share. I'm graham share A long 1:16:56.920 --> 1:17:01.320 time ago. Was mistake. Obviously we sold it in about 1:17:01.400 --> 1:17:03.479 nineteen sixty seven. I think we got two and a 1:17:03.520 --> 1:17:07.280 half thousand pounds each for it. And does he still 1:17:07.320 --> 1:17:11.639 have his writer's share? No, No, I sold that too, 1:17:13.200 --> 1:17:17.799 the writer's share. I acquired the writer's share when they sold. 1:17:18.720 --> 1:17:22.679 They sold all their rights virtually in nineteen ninety three 1:17:22.840 --> 1:17:27.360 or six or something. They sold to Saint Ann's was 1:17:27.439 --> 1:17:31.040 sold to EMI firstly, and then every member of Tennessee 1:17:31.120 --> 1:17:34.759 C other than Long sold their rights because of various 1:17:35.240 --> 1:17:39.000 financial implications they had at the time. They needed money 1:17:39.000 --> 1:17:41.479 and they couldn't acquire it or whatever, and they sold 1:17:41.600 --> 1:17:45.680 for considerable amount of money. And I acquired the American 1:17:45.800 --> 1:17:53.240 rights because I asked Graham, Eric and Kevin I think 1:17:53.560 --> 1:17:55.120 at the time, you know, said, look, if you're going 1:17:55.200 --> 1:17:58.040 to sell to EMI for the world, why do you 1:17:58.120 --> 1:17:59.920 let me buy the rights, I'll give you a better deal, 1:18:00.200 --> 1:18:04.600 which I did, and you know, let me look after it. 1:18:04.640 --> 1:18:07.760 They're my babies as well. So I still published the 1:18:09.520 --> 1:18:14.920 the songs even to today, of subjects to reversions obviously 1:18:15.640 --> 1:18:18.080 of Tennessee c in America. 1:18:19.479 --> 1:18:22.720 And in America we have the right of reversion. 1:18:23.040 --> 1:18:26.200 Yeah, that will all work. When it works. Yeah, when 1:18:26.280 --> 1:18:26.679 it works. 1:18:26.680 --> 1:18:27.160 A good point. 1:18:28.080 --> 1:18:29.840 When it works, I'm talking about on the time period 1:18:29.880 --> 1:18:31.120 of the thing, right. 1:18:31.800 --> 1:18:34.400 So do they have any of their rights back? 1:18:34.800 --> 1:18:35.320 They will have. 1:18:37.080 --> 1:18:39.120 Okay, let's get back to the narrative. So you're working 1:18:39.200 --> 1:18:42.080 with Graham. You're having this incredible success. How do you 1:18:42.200 --> 1:18:43.599 get the songs to the Hollys. 1:18:48.200 --> 1:18:51.639 I didn't. I think Graham got them through it one 1:18:51.680 --> 1:18:55.280 way or another because of Graham Nash. Although the Hollies 1:18:55.320 --> 1:18:58.839 were managed by fellow or Michael Cohen, who's my wife's 1:18:58.880 --> 1:19:02.479 first cousin. I was quite close with him. But I 1:19:02.600 --> 1:19:06.919 think Graham got them to Graham got them to Graham Nash. Somehow. 1:19:07.439 --> 1:19:09.000 I got the song and I tried to get it 1:19:09.040 --> 1:19:11.479 for Herman's Hermits, and I went to Mickey Most who 1:19:12.000 --> 1:19:14.840 just rejected it. And I was very upset because I 1:19:14.920 --> 1:19:18.120 thought it was a super song. I was in Israel 1:19:18.800 --> 1:19:20.760 and when I got back, Graham said, I've written a 1:19:20.800 --> 1:19:24.080 new song. I said, okay, and I come around to 1:19:24.120 --> 1:19:25.680 the house. He came out to my house and we 1:19:25.760 --> 1:19:30.439 had this horrendous Epstein furniture which was like so big 1:19:30.560 --> 1:19:33.000 you could filled the whole room. And he sat in 1:19:33.080 --> 1:19:37.280 this huge armchair with one foot laps on both sides 1:19:37.360 --> 1:19:41.040 with this thick material. And Graham gets on and starts 1:19:41.120 --> 1:19:44.760 playing bus stop. He plays it right through with the 1:19:44.880 --> 1:19:48.200 reff everything, and I just sat back. I thought, oh 1:19:48.320 --> 1:19:52.240 my god, that is incredible. It's possibly his best song, 1:19:52.320 --> 1:19:55.439 you know. It was just it was amazing. It had 1:19:55.520 --> 1:19:58.800 the feel of the time, The lyric was charming, the 1:19:58.960 --> 1:20:02.639 song was incredible. How can Mickey most turn it down? Well, 1:20:02.720 --> 1:20:06.559 in one word, No, that WASNX and the the exide. 1:20:06.640 --> 1:20:09.559 I think Grahamer got it to the Hollies. The Hollis 1:20:09.600 --> 1:20:12.200 had done an initial song of Graham had written a 1:20:12.280 --> 1:20:15.519 song with Charlie call look Through Any Window, So that's 1:20:15.560 --> 1:20:17.400 probably how they got it because that had a success 1:20:17.439 --> 1:20:19.680 as well. That was a top twenty in England, so 1:20:19.800 --> 1:20:21.160 that's probably how that happened. 1:20:22.760 --> 1:20:27.240 So how does Graham as an individual song writer morph 1:20:27.479 --> 1:20:32.600 into ten CC, Strawberry Studios, Eric Stewart and everybody. 1:20:35.439 --> 1:20:39.599 He starts off with Oerx Stewart. I mean I bought, 1:20:39.680 --> 1:20:42.479 as I saying, to the agency, Kennedy Street Agency. I 1:20:42.560 --> 1:20:45.479 bought the partners out of that. They had Freddy and 1:20:45.520 --> 1:20:48.920 the Dreamers and when Fontana and between us we had 1:20:49.040 --> 1:20:52.000 one two and three in Billboard one week with when Fontana, 1:20:53.520 --> 1:20:55.800 Freddie and Herman one two and three. So that was 1:20:55.840 --> 1:20:58.680 all right from Manchester, which was our aim always to 1:20:58.720 --> 1:21:08.439 stay in Manchester. I I'm trying to think, and yeah, 1:21:08.479 --> 1:21:11.320 that's right. Then Wayne Fontana had the big the Game 1:21:11.400 --> 1:21:14.760 of Love. I think then the mind Wayne Fontana and 1:21:14.800 --> 1:21:18.599 the mind Benders split up mind Men as a hit 1:21:19.120 --> 1:21:22.040 called Groovy Kind of Love, which went to number one 1:21:22.080 --> 1:21:26.479 world wide. I think was was it Gothinking might have been. 1:21:26.520 --> 1:21:28.160 I don't know who it was. It was, It was 1:21:28.200 --> 1:21:30.280 a very big writers anyhow, it was a great song. 1:21:30.840 --> 1:21:35.040 And then Graham joined with Eric in the Mind Benders. 1:21:35.479 --> 1:21:38.160 I don't know why, but that happened. So that's their 1:21:38.520 --> 1:21:42.760 first thing together. I'd met Wayne Fontana and Eric in 1:21:42.880 --> 1:21:45.519 America on tour when I was touring home and I 1:21:45.600 --> 1:21:49.639 met him for the first time. Very good looking, very charming, nice, 1:21:49.960 --> 1:21:57.560 very nice, very nice person and at the time, so 1:21:58.880 --> 1:22:02.000 they got together. Then then we always had this dilemma 1:22:02.320 --> 1:22:05.240 of having to go to London to record, which was 1:22:05.320 --> 1:22:08.960 a pain in the ass. So they decided they wanted 1:22:09.000 --> 1:22:12.680 to start a recording studio in Manchester. We invested in 1:22:12.760 --> 1:22:17.759 the studio Kennedy Street, our company. Dixon, who was managing 1:22:17.880 --> 1:22:20.519 Eric at the time, also was employed by Kennedy Street. 1:22:21.040 --> 1:22:24.080 He was supervised a lot of the work in the 1:22:24.200 --> 1:22:29.639 studio and they developed a Strawberry studio. Once that studio 1:22:29.840 --> 1:22:32.920 was going, Graham in the meantime had been writing and 1:22:33.040 --> 1:22:35.639 he was doing songs. He went to America to write 1:22:35.680 --> 1:22:39.360 for Kaznuts Cats on some kind of a deal, and 1:22:40.960 --> 1:22:44.280 then he used to do demos of the songs and 1:22:44.360 --> 1:22:47.959 put them out in England to try and have success 1:22:48.040 --> 1:22:51.720 with various tracks that they all wrote together. Really good 1:22:51.760 --> 1:22:56.720 stuff read songs that nobody's ever heard, but they were 1:22:56.760 --> 1:22:59.760 really good. They were utilizing the studio to get it. 1:23:00.920 --> 1:23:03.679 Then when it really happened was when they were testing 1:23:03.800 --> 1:23:07.120 drum equipment or something and kevil Ola and Eric came 1:23:07.200 --> 1:23:10.799 up with neanderthal Man, which was huge hit in England, 1:23:10.880 --> 1:23:15.560 a song Obscure Song, And when Graham joined, then that 1:23:15.840 --> 1:23:19.840 band to put with Moody Blues on some tour, and 1:23:20.360 --> 1:23:23.120 then the four of them used to do session work 1:23:23.240 --> 1:23:26.400 all the time for anybody that came. So we had 1:23:26.439 --> 1:23:29.599 an artist called Ramses and they did a whole album 1:23:29.640 --> 1:23:35.320 with Rameses. And then through my meeting Tony Christie and 1:23:35.720 --> 1:23:40.720 being my real second act, probably after Herman's Thermit's or no, 1:23:41.040 --> 1:23:44.280 after Graham, Tony Christie was the next person on the 1:23:44.400 --> 1:23:48.280 scene and he had a very good voice. You liked 1:23:48.320 --> 1:23:51.640 Tom Jones. I was in America the bal Building with 1:23:51.720 --> 1:23:54.880 Donny Kirshner, who I was quite friendly with her liked 1:23:54.920 --> 1:23:58.520 a lot, And I said, whatever happened to Nil Sadhaka, 1:23:58.800 --> 1:24:02.679 one of my teenage loves, And he said he's upstairs. 1:24:03.479 --> 1:24:05.200 He said, you're kidding. He said, can I hear it? 1:24:05.280 --> 1:24:07.479 Because I'm with my wife Carol, Let's go and see him. 1:24:07.760 --> 1:24:10.320 So we went up to this little room ten feet 1:24:10.360 --> 1:24:13.519 by six with a big upright piano, and Donnie says, Neil, 1:24:13.560 --> 1:24:16.160 playing some of your new stuff. They played five tracks. 1:24:17.080 --> 1:24:19.240 The last one was is this the Way to Amarillo? 1:24:20.080 --> 1:24:22.840 And I said that's it. That's a smash. I like that, 1:24:23.240 --> 1:24:26.080 and Donnie looked at him. It's Neil, and Neil looked 1:24:26.080 --> 1:24:30.160 at Donnie and they said, this guy is crazy. They didn't. 1:24:30.200 --> 1:24:32.080 They just looked at it. They didn't. They didn't like 1:24:32.160 --> 1:24:35.200 the song. Anyhow. I get back to England and now 1:24:35.320 --> 1:24:37.760 Carol's driving me mad. Have you got a demo for 1:24:37.880 --> 1:24:40.800 that song? Get the demo? And I'm phoning Donna Cashion. 1:24:40.840 --> 1:24:43.519 It was like with Mickey most It's like getting things 1:24:43.560 --> 1:24:45.840 out of people was so hard. You had to have 1:24:46.040 --> 1:24:49.880 my kind of persistence or ignorance or whatever you call it, 1:24:50.800 --> 1:24:53.640 or what there's a better word than that kutzper to 1:24:54.200 --> 1:24:58.080 truly drive people mad. So and finally he sent me 1:24:58.120 --> 1:25:00.800 a demo of Amarillo. I went to London. It was 1:25:00.840 --> 1:25:03.479 recorded the next day. It was put in the charts. 1:25:03.520 --> 1:25:05.960 Two weeks later he got to eighteen, which I thought 1:25:06.080 --> 1:25:09.479 was crap. I thought that it was much better than that. Anyhow, 1:25:09.560 --> 1:25:13.400 twenty five years later, Peter care comedian did a thing 1:25:13.520 --> 1:25:16.120 for BBC which is a Red Nose Day, which is 1:25:16.240 --> 1:25:18.800 to do with charity, and they did a new video 1:25:19.000 --> 1:25:21.000 and they used it is this the way to Amarilla. 1:25:21.320 --> 1:25:23.559 It became the biggest record of two thousand and four 1:25:23.880 --> 1:25:27.000 and was number one for twelve weeks in the UK charts. 1:25:27.360 --> 1:25:29.400 That's the history of that. But going back to why 1:25:29.479 --> 1:25:33.040 I started, so when even when he got to eighteen, 1:25:33.240 --> 1:25:35.960 Danny Kirshn who was ecstatic, He says, God, I thought 1:25:36.000 --> 1:25:39.439 I had good ears. That's amazing, Harvey. And I said, well, 1:25:39.439 --> 1:25:41.960 why do you send Kneel over to England? And that's 1:25:42.280 --> 1:25:44.800 let the boys do a bit of recording with him, 1:25:45.080 --> 1:25:47.479 you know, because they're very good and they had had 1:25:47.479 --> 1:25:49.560 a hit with I think that, yeah, they might have 1:25:49.640 --> 1:25:51.960 had a hit with Neanderthal Man. By then they were 1:25:51.960 --> 1:25:54.880 having success and Graham had had a pedigree, and you know, 1:25:55.040 --> 1:25:59.479 Graham just had hit. He was a joke. So anyhow, 1:25:59.600 --> 1:26:01.840 and also so I become a brother in law of Graham. 1:26:01.880 --> 1:26:06.439 We married sisters, and that was in nineteen sixty nine, 1:26:06.640 --> 1:26:09.479 so this was seventy one. Everything was happening at the 1:26:09.520 --> 1:26:13.000 same time. So Danny said, okay, I'll send him over 1:26:13.080 --> 1:26:15.080 to do a session. So he came over to do 1:26:15.160 --> 1:26:21.479 a session and he did two albums. Monster never stopped recording. 1:26:21.680 --> 1:26:23.800 We used to go into the studio. He used to 1:26:23.840 --> 1:26:26.320 sit at the piano to start with, and then he 1:26:26.439 --> 1:26:30.320 goes calendar girl breaking up his heart to do and 1:26:30.439 --> 1:26:34.320 everybody's sitting on the floor getting a concert before his starts. 1:26:34.680 --> 1:26:38.200 And I used to bring bagels and locks from north Manchster, 1:26:39.520 --> 1:26:43.280 best bagels in the world, best locks from a shock 1:26:43.360 --> 1:26:46.720 called Titanic, which was named after some of his grandparents 1:26:46.760 --> 1:26:50.479 who died in the Titanic or something. And he loved it, 1:26:51.080 --> 1:26:53.920 and the so and so credited me on the album. 1:26:54.200 --> 1:26:58.599 I was quite instrument I was responsible. Yeah, I can 1:26:58.600 --> 1:27:01.320 say I was responsible for Neil's Darker having a revival. 1:27:01.439 --> 1:27:04.320 I mean, you know, okay, Elton John put the record out, 1:27:04.520 --> 1:27:06.160 and Elton John did this and that and the other. 1:27:06.360 --> 1:27:08.759 But he wouldn't have seen Elton John unless this had happened. 1:27:09.160 --> 1:27:12.200 The credit was Harvey didn't even have full name Harvey 1:27:12.520 --> 1:27:18.920 Bagels and lucks. That's the darker story. So then then 1:27:19.080 --> 1:27:22.000 he said to them boys, because he'd done beautiful music 1:27:22.080 --> 1:27:25.000 with them, it was magnificent, he said to them, well, 1:27:25.040 --> 1:27:27.240 why don't you do something yourself? And I think that 1:27:27.760 --> 1:27:31.240 goaded them. They've now done a Ramses album which is 1:27:31.680 --> 1:27:34.400 pretty damn good. They've done. It's a darker album with 1:27:34.800 --> 1:27:38.640 tracks which are amazing, right solitaire, I mean just incredible. 1:27:39.240 --> 1:27:43.840 And then so they started fiddling around themselves. That's the 1:27:43.920 --> 1:27:47.559 beginning of the tense siemaur together. And then they did 1:27:48.120 --> 1:27:51.040 a song called Waterfall, which I didn't like. They thought 1:27:51.080 --> 1:27:53.559 it was the greatest thing since Last Bread, and they 1:27:53.920 --> 1:28:00.599 pedaled it everywhere themselves more or less, and Apple said 1:28:00.640 --> 1:28:03.120 they liked it. You know, Apple, it was the most 1:28:03.200 --> 1:28:08.320 disorganized organization in the world. They liked it. So you 1:28:08.400 --> 1:28:12.000 know what happened to that. Jonathan King comes up one 1:28:12.120 --> 1:28:17.240 day and they they done a track called Donner, which 1:28:17.360 --> 1:28:21.439 is a ripoff of O Darling by the Beatles, which 1:28:21.560 --> 1:28:25.880 is a ripoff of Valance Darling. I mean, the thing 1:28:26.040 --> 1:28:29.400 oh Darling has been used not I can't describe it 1:28:29.479 --> 1:28:32.640 to the Beatles. It goes back to American whoever did 1:28:32.640 --> 1:28:35.280 it to start with. So they did this and we 1:28:35.439 --> 1:28:37.320 thought it was a joke. I mean, Lol had a 1:28:37.360 --> 1:28:40.280 high pitched voice, and you know, they all thought Waterfall 1:28:40.360 --> 1:28:45.120 was great. And Jonathan King said that's a hit. Oh yeah, right, yeah, 1:28:45.240 --> 1:28:47.960 right right, yeah, we know it's a hit. So well, 1:28:48.920 --> 1:28:50.640 I'll give you I think he gave him five and 1:28:51.400 --> 1:28:55.280 offered some money or something for it. Was crazy. Okay, right, okay, 1:28:55.400 --> 1:28:57.320 we'll do it, and he I got to number two 1:28:57.360 --> 1:28:59.760 in the charts, and that was the beginning of the 1:29:00.040 --> 1:29:03.240 Nathan King thing. We signed a contract with Jonathan King 1:29:03.600 --> 1:29:05.920 on a very low loyalty. I think we were on 1:29:06.080 --> 1:29:12.000 four percent, I think. And my idea was, Okay, we'll 1:29:12.120 --> 1:29:15.559 sign this, but if they become successful, I'm sure he'll 1:29:15.600 --> 1:29:18.920 renegotiate and that will be great for us. We can 1:29:19.439 --> 1:29:25.040 we'll have all the benefits of his enthusiasm. We'll have 1:29:25.160 --> 1:29:28.160 a hit, we'll have another hit. Great, and then he 1:29:28.240 --> 1:29:30.839 won't be happy. He wants us to earn money. Anyhow, 1:29:31.360 --> 1:29:34.360 that was the wrong thing. He didn't anyway. They had 1:29:34.360 --> 1:29:39.320 a load of success. This is between seventy two and 1:29:39.520 --> 1:29:45.040 seventy four, tremendous, many of many hits. Nothing in America, 1:29:45.400 --> 1:29:47.920 not a smell in America. Number one in England with 1:29:48.880 --> 1:29:51.720 rubber bullets, The Dean and I was a hit, or 1:29:51.840 --> 1:29:57.680 Frant's Saint's a hit, Mandy Flymy Classic was a hit, 1:29:58.400 --> 1:30:02.080 and nothing in America all and the boys said, we're 1:30:02.160 --> 1:30:05.479 on four percent, We're on one percent. Jonathan is getting 1:30:05.560 --> 1:30:09.400 more himself than all of us put together. It's not right. 1:30:09.560 --> 1:30:12.800 So I speak to Jonathan. I said, look, this isn't right. 1:30:12.840 --> 1:30:16.479 Will you change it? No, the contracts at contract public 1:30:16.560 --> 1:30:21.000 school is you signed a contract. That's the contract. And 1:30:21.120 --> 1:30:24.760 the law in England stipulates you can't force somebody to 1:30:25.840 --> 1:30:29.599 do a management contract. And it was I managed Jimmy White, 1:30:29.640 --> 1:30:32.920 for instance, a snooker player. He tried to get out 1:30:32.960 --> 1:30:37.000 of his contract. My only all I could do is 1:30:37.040 --> 1:30:39.479 get damages. I can't force him to carry on with 1:30:39.640 --> 1:30:43.320 me and that so we did the reverse with Jonathan. 1:30:43.400 --> 1:30:45.240 King said, well, look they're not going to give you 1:30:45.280 --> 1:30:48.840 any more product. You're not going to work for less 1:30:49.000 --> 1:30:52.240 than you getting more than the whole group put together. 1:30:52.320 --> 1:30:58.559 I'm sorry. And incidentally, by the way Jonathan said, finally 1:30:58.800 --> 1:31:02.000 was forced into meeting and we went on the train, 1:31:02.320 --> 1:31:06.400 myself and my attorney to meet Jonathan King at eight 1:31:06.439 --> 1:31:10.320 o'clock in the Westbury Hotel. The train broke down in 1:31:10.400 --> 1:31:13.200 the middle of nowhere and we were stuck on this 1:31:13.360 --> 1:31:18.919 train from Manchester to London. We got into the Westbury 1:31:19.000 --> 1:31:21.640 Hotel at four thirteen and there were no telephones. There 1:31:21.720 --> 1:31:24.559 was no mobile phone. We were in the middle of nowhere. 1:31:25.160 --> 1:31:27.240 He was at the hotel. We got there at four 1:31:27.240 --> 1:31:31.240 point thirty were still sitting there waiting, and I couldn't 1:31:31.280 --> 1:31:34.000 believe that he'd waited all that time. And now we 1:31:34.080 --> 1:31:38.519 did the deal, and he got a very good deal. 1:31:38.840 --> 1:31:41.720 He got a reversion of the rights from me. First 1:31:41.720 --> 1:31:44.080 of all, we got permission to leave and go on 1:31:44.160 --> 1:31:46.960 to another company. And the other company being Phonograph, had 1:31:47.000 --> 1:31:49.519 done a deal with him to acquire the rights for 1:31:49.640 --> 1:31:52.639 those albums for that period of time, the rights reverting 1:31:52.760 --> 1:31:55.040 to him again, they could sell them again and again. 1:31:55.479 --> 1:31:57.680 And I spoke to Jonathan a few weeks ago and 1:31:57.760 --> 1:32:01.439 they said it was the worst decision he ever made. Now, 1:32:01.520 --> 1:32:03.439 the reason we left was was we had no success 1:32:03.520 --> 1:32:06.479 in America. The reason we had no success in America 1:32:06.640 --> 1:32:09.880 because we're on a crappy label. London Records was born 1:32:09.960 --> 1:32:12.880 on the worst label I've ever been associated with. Not 1:32:13.000 --> 1:32:15.240 that we went to a much better one in Mercury, 1:32:15.520 --> 1:32:20.360 but London was particularly bad. I mean, we went with 1:32:20.600 --> 1:32:24.519 Mercury because of the money, and Phonogram because of their 1:32:24.560 --> 1:32:27.920 pedigree Deutsche Grammarphone. For the rest of the world, that's 1:32:28.000 --> 1:32:31.280 a different story. But London didn't get us a sniff. 1:32:32.200 --> 1:32:36.400 And my son Paul said to me, well, maybe it's 1:32:36.520 --> 1:32:40.240 because the American radio weren't playing that kind of music 1:32:40.320 --> 1:32:44.160 at the time. It was very formatted American radio and 1:32:44.320 --> 1:32:47.720 TENCC just didn't fit into that at all. And there 1:32:47.800 --> 1:32:51.160 is an element of truth in that. But the talent 1:32:51.320 --> 1:32:54.320 was so great and the publicity was so wonderful, even 1:32:54.400 --> 1:32:56.880 in America, that one would have thought they'd have had 1:32:57.000 --> 1:33:00.960 some kind of success with all that magnificent, but they didn't. 1:33:01.439 --> 1:33:03.360 So we went to Phonogram. 1:33:10.760 --> 1:33:14.720 Okay, so you have all those albums. I bought them more. 1:33:14.840 --> 1:33:15.719 I was a big fan. 1:33:16.479 --> 1:33:20.639 The album comes on on Phonogram Mercury, I'm Not in Love. 1:33:20.840 --> 1:33:22.000 Tell us the story there. 1:33:22.760 --> 1:33:25.080 I went into the well. The great thing about inger 1:33:25.160 --> 1:33:29.000 manager then of TENNESSEC, was I didn't have the problem 1:33:29.600 --> 1:33:33.400 of finding the song. I sat back and they presented 1:33:33.479 --> 1:33:35.519 me with all this magnificent so and the only thing 1:33:35.640 --> 1:33:37.960 is to decide which song goes out first or which 1:33:38.040 --> 1:33:40.640 is the hit. So they pre into this album and 1:33:40.960 --> 1:33:44.000 because the record company, I went into the studio and 1:33:44.160 --> 1:33:47.960 I heard I'm Not in Love unmixed in the studio 1:33:48.960 --> 1:33:53.439 and talking about atmosphere. That was the Bee's Knees. That 1:33:53.680 --> 1:33:56.880 was That was definitely the best thing they did from 1:33:56.960 --> 1:34:01.800 a point of view of atmosphere, it was incredible difficulty 1:34:01.880 --> 1:34:04.439 being it was six minutes and there was a lot 1:34:04.520 --> 1:34:08.400 of discussion was resulted in them putting Minnestronia as the 1:34:08.439 --> 1:34:11.880 first single in England. Anyhow, I'm Not in Love just 1:34:12.000 --> 1:34:14.560 took over the world. It was the biggest record and 1:34:15.760 --> 1:34:20.280 it was even in America, even on Mercury, probably the 1:34:20.400 --> 1:34:23.560 worst record company there. And the other thing why it 1:34:23.720 --> 1:34:27.679 really didn't happen was the group, who were always very 1:34:28.280 --> 1:34:32.880 meticulous about the sound in concerts did not give it well, 1:34:32.880 --> 1:34:34.800 I shouldn't say they didn't give it off. They didn't 1:34:34.840 --> 1:34:39.160 pay much attention to the visuality of their show. So 1:34:39.320 --> 1:34:42.040 they never they would go on in genes with a 1:34:42.360 --> 1:34:46.320 T shirt like like Steve Jobs. You know, it wasn't 1:34:46.400 --> 1:34:50.799 even they weren't even interested in anything, whereas Dave Bowie, 1:34:52.479 --> 1:34:56.200 Mark Bowl and Freddie Mercury, you know, you just go 1:34:56.320 --> 1:34:59.160 on and on of all the stars that did get 1:34:59.240 --> 1:35:03.080 that additional visual thing. And concerning how good Kevin Low 1:35:03.200 --> 1:35:08.200 were on visuality and artistic work, as subsequently they proved 1:35:08.439 --> 1:35:11.439 with their video stuff, it just wasn't used for them. 1:35:11.920 --> 1:35:14.559 So when we were off they were interested in sound 1:35:14.920 --> 1:35:19.280 sound sound. Oh it's to me mad. I said to them, well, 1:35:19.560 --> 1:35:21.880 if they want the sound and by the bloody record, 1:35:22.360 --> 1:35:24.120 I want to go to a concert. I want to 1:35:24.160 --> 1:35:26.760 hear them singer sing flat. I don't care if he 1:35:27.040 --> 1:35:29.599 drops a few notes. I don't care if the string breaks. 1:35:29.840 --> 1:35:32.560 I want a live performance. I want an interaction with 1:35:32.840 --> 1:35:36.080 Surely that's the game for a live show. But they 1:35:36.080 --> 1:35:38.240 didn't see it that way. Well, they weren't prepared to 1:35:38.360 --> 1:35:41.360 do anything. We were off at the Eagle store while 1:35:41.400 --> 1:35:44.840 the record was in the charts, and of course it 1:35:45.040 --> 1:35:48.599 was rejected, wasn't it because of some bloody sound thing 1:35:48.800 --> 1:35:51.160 or something? Or I didn't want to go into it. 1:35:51.400 --> 1:35:57.320 I thought, well, you know, and also I think I 1:35:57.400 --> 1:36:00.599 think Frank Barcelona was actually looking after tency See as well. 1:36:00.680 --> 1:36:04.639 I think so it might have come from his packaging ideas. 1:36:04.720 --> 1:36:07.360 I don't know, but they were perfectly suited as well. 1:36:07.800 --> 1:36:10.360 I mean, when we played with the Rolling Stones, that 1:36:10.600 --> 1:36:13.680 was not a clever match. It was totally different. But 1:36:13.800 --> 1:36:17.880 the Eagles and TENCC, that just that would have been easy. 1:36:18.520 --> 1:36:20.479 And I think if they'd have done that, they'd have 1:36:20.560 --> 1:36:23.080 had a number one album, and I think we wouldn't 1:36:23.080 --> 1:36:27.120 be talking about them in the same way. I mean, 1:36:27.240 --> 1:36:32.640 they are definitely not first division. You know, they're not Beatles, 1:36:33.320 --> 1:36:40.360 Queen Pink, Floyd Prince, Michael Jackson. But I think they 1:36:40.400 --> 1:36:42.479 could have been if they'd have had a few number 1:36:42.520 --> 1:36:45.320 one albums in America and the American public had got 1:36:45.400 --> 1:36:48.080 to know the humor and the genius of them. And 1:36:48.160 --> 1:36:50.280 of course they didn't stay together again, I mean, I'm 1:36:50.320 --> 1:36:52.439 talking about I'm not in Love with only half the 1:36:52.520 --> 1:36:56.439 band as well in the end, because the others had 1:36:56.520 --> 1:36:57.759 left were leaving. 1:36:58.320 --> 1:37:00.800 Okay, so tell us about the being breaking up in 1:37:00.880 --> 1:37:02.080 the Gizmo, etc. 1:37:02.920 --> 1:37:08.120 Yeah, Well, the band were always two sided affair. It 1:37:08.240 --> 1:37:11.040 was Graham and Eric with the establishment. They could have 1:37:11.040 --> 1:37:13.799 had both eyes on and Kevin Lol. Were the hippies 1:37:15.840 --> 1:37:20.240 they wanted. They didn't care about commerciality. That was not 1:37:20.400 --> 1:37:27.160 their game. Their game was doing what they want, unrepressed, unedited, unproduced. 1:37:27.800 --> 1:37:30.920 You know they did. Consequences was three albums, a three 1:37:31.000 --> 1:37:34.280 album set. You know, it's crazy. And all I said 1:37:34.439 --> 1:37:36.960 is give me a single, Please give me a single. 1:37:37.400 --> 1:37:40.519 And they played a track called Honolulu Lulu, which is 1:37:40.600 --> 1:37:46.719 seventeen seconds of a brilliant idea. Aloha, I'm Honolulu, Lulu 1:37:46.880 --> 1:37:50.160 from Hawaii. I saw you from the corner of my eye, 1:37:50.720 --> 1:37:53.360 which and it was beautiful music, and I said, that's it. 1:37:53.840 --> 1:37:56.759 We've got a single. It's going to be a smash. Anyhow, 1:37:57.160 --> 1:37:58.960 a few weeks later I went to the rest of 1:37:59.040 --> 1:38:02.880 their track, put like a fifteen minute orchestral piece on 1:38:03.000 --> 1:38:05.840 top of the seventeen seconds, and that was all. That's 1:38:05.880 --> 1:38:09.880 their commerciality. They weren't. They weren't at all interested in commerciality. 1:38:10.240 --> 1:38:14.599 But Kevin loll but Graham and Eric, they think, right, 1:38:14.640 --> 1:38:16.040 we've got to do an album. We've got to do 1:38:16.080 --> 1:38:17.759 it by this time. We've got to have the singles. 1:38:17.760 --> 1:38:19.080 We've got to do this, We've got to do that. 1:38:19.520 --> 1:38:23.920 And I think the obviously they've been together for four years, 1:38:24.000 --> 1:38:30.559 and there was there was, I don't know, not musical differences. 1:38:30.600 --> 1:38:33.000 There were I don't even think of his personality differences. 1:38:33.080 --> 1:38:36.800 I just think, you know, the instead of nowadays an 1:38:36.880 --> 1:38:39.040 artist would take off for a year and then go 1:38:39.200 --> 1:38:41.439 back and do it. In those days, it was like 1:38:42.280 --> 1:38:46.680 they created a brand. It had a tremendous marketing aspect worldwide, 1:38:46.720 --> 1:38:51.479 with the exception of America. They could everywhere they went, 1:38:51.640 --> 1:38:55.040 and so Graham and Eric joined together and they did 1:38:55.080 --> 1:38:57.040 The Things We Do for Love, which was half done 1:38:57.600 --> 1:39:02.719 before Kevin long left or that, and Kevin just hated 1:39:02.800 --> 1:39:06.000 it when they heard it. They hated it, and it 1:39:06.160 --> 1:39:09.400 was very much liked in America, and Graham went to 1:39:09.439 --> 1:39:11.880 see beat Middler, who was a favorite song at the time. 1:39:12.320 --> 1:39:14.080 I mean, you know, it was a very popular song, 1:39:14.240 --> 1:39:17.600 and it actually outsold I'm Not in Love, which I 1:39:17.720 --> 1:39:21.680 didn't understand, but go figure it. 1:39:23.320 --> 1:39:27.400 Okay, the BM split support, but you're still looking after 1:39:27.760 --> 1:39:31.519 Eric and Graham? Do you continue with Kevin and Lawell? 1:39:31.640 --> 1:39:32.679 How long does that last? 1:39:32.920 --> 1:39:35.519 I did a deal with Kevin Lowell, but I carried 1:39:35.560 --> 1:39:38.840 on publishing their material and they could go on their 1:39:38.960 --> 1:39:42.599 way because they wanted to be involved in new things 1:39:42.640 --> 1:39:45.559 for video work and everything, and I said, fine, that's fine. 1:39:45.840 --> 1:39:49.080 But so I retained the publishing on everything they did, 1:39:49.720 --> 1:39:51.720 and they had some hits on their own, which was 1:39:51.840 --> 1:39:54.280 very good, and it was very nice, and it was 1:39:54.280 --> 1:39:57.519 always a very friendly relationship. And to this day, I'm 1:39:57.640 --> 1:40:02.559 very friendly with loll. Lull's the lucky one really because 1:40:02.600 --> 1:40:04.559 he didn't sell any rights, so he didn't have any 1:40:05.080 --> 1:40:08.439 handy and beefs or anything. He just let the money 1:40:08.520 --> 1:40:11.240 keep rolling in because he had some kind of a 1:40:11.760 --> 1:40:15.720 case in America against the previous management where he'd been 1:40:15.800 --> 1:40:18.560 awarded a nice chunk of money, and I think it 1:40:18.680 --> 1:40:24.080 just kept him able to retain everything he had because 1:40:24.080 --> 1:40:28.560 everybody else was probably overspending at a tremendous rate. And 1:40:28.640 --> 1:40:32.680 then there's always the tax implications of earnings which you've 1:40:32.760 --> 1:40:36.599 not put aside for which is very typical of lots 1:40:36.640 --> 1:40:41.320 of people. Although everybody had accountants, the accountants can't control 1:40:41.360 --> 1:40:44.080 the spending. If you're going to get three ferraris, what 1:40:44.200 --> 1:40:44.599 do you want? 1:40:47.880 --> 1:40:51.200 Okay? So they do that outun deceptive Benz the two. 1:40:51.400 --> 1:40:56.080 Then they do dreadlock howaday ah they're to hit and 1:40:56.240 --> 1:40:58.680 then it peters out. What's going on there? 1:40:59.479 --> 1:41:06.320 Well, I think there was a lot of well Graham 1:41:06.360 --> 1:41:13.920 and Eric didn't get along then, particularly, I'm trying to 1:41:13.960 --> 1:41:17.280 think of dates now, because what date are we talking 1:41:17.400 --> 1:41:21.160 because nineteen the band like disbanded for a while in 1:41:21.280 --> 1:41:25.760 about nineteen eighty three or something like that. I think 1:41:26.960 --> 1:41:29.599 they tried various things that Andrew Gold came in as 1:41:29.640 --> 1:41:32.320 a kind of a producer and tried all sorts of things. 1:41:32.640 --> 1:41:36.479 We moved from Mercury to Warner Brothers for what it did. 1:41:36.640 --> 1:41:38.400 Didn't do any good. But we did move to a 1:41:38.520 --> 1:41:44.040 des label, and I think I don't know that they 1:41:44.200 --> 1:41:48.720 just grew apart. You know, it was just pretty much impossible, 1:41:49.560 --> 1:41:53.599 So I think Graham decided to do his own thing. Meanwhile, 1:41:53.720 --> 1:41:57.720 punk had come in. Their music was not fashionable. They 1:41:57.760 --> 1:42:02.960 were self in, dundant algent capitalists, and it wasn't what 1:42:03.080 --> 1:42:06.960 the sex pistols were about. And the sex pistols took 1:42:07.000 --> 1:42:08.519 over the airways, and so you. 1:42:08.600 --> 1:42:13.479 Know, okay, so then you manage some other singers, but 1:42:13.600 --> 1:42:17.160 then you manage a snooker player. Where does that come from? 1:42:17.400 --> 1:42:21.120 And when I got out at the same time, I decided, right, 1:42:21.600 --> 1:42:23.680 I want to get into sport. Now they're not going 1:42:23.760 --> 1:42:25.880 to play any music. I'm want to rest for a while. 1:42:26.240 --> 1:42:29.880 Have had a nice career the sixties, the seventies, we've 1:42:29.920 --> 1:42:33.040 missed out Rice Weber. But anyway, we go on to 1:42:33.800 --> 1:42:37.280 the seventies and the eighties, and I thought, right, can't 1:42:37.360 --> 1:42:41.920 any music played. I did ultimately succumb to getting a 1:42:42.080 --> 1:42:46.479 kind of group that fitted in with the contemporary situation, 1:42:47.000 --> 1:42:51.560 but before that I had Wax came together. Graham and 1:42:51.640 --> 1:42:55.400 Andrew Andrew was a very big favorite of mine. I 1:42:55.560 --> 1:42:59.000 really think he's a very talented person, could play every 1:42:59.200 --> 1:43:05.880 instrument and was absolutely tremendous. And Graham and Andrew, I 1:43:05.960 --> 1:43:10.000 think together had the best time of their respective lives 1:43:10.040 --> 1:43:13.080 as far as musical music was concerned. So Graham had 1:43:13.120 --> 1:43:16.360 gone from a situation where it was probably always battling 1:43:17.040 --> 1:43:21.920 whether it be on editing Kevin Lowl or whatever edit 1:43:22.280 --> 1:43:27.479 or falling out with musically with with Eric or whatever production. 1:43:27.920 --> 1:43:32.120 He was now with somebody that he was completely well, 1:43:32.200 --> 1:43:34.280 completely in bed with. They just they got on like 1:43:34.360 --> 1:43:37.360 a house on fire. They were wonderful together. We have 1:43:37.520 --> 1:43:40.280 some great stories of theirs. I mean, on Andrew's thirty 1:43:40.400 --> 1:43:44.720 third birthday, we went to Morton's in London. It was 1:43:44.760 --> 1:43:48.519 a restaurant and we both loved the producers. Everybody I'd 1:43:48.560 --> 1:43:52.519 ever been associated with, going back to twenty years, had 1:43:52.800 --> 1:43:56.439 always had the producers film and we knew every single 1:43:56.520 --> 1:43:59.599 word of it. And we're sitting down at the table, myself, Cara, 1:44:00.439 --> 1:44:04.040 Andrew and Graham, and mel Brooks walks in and he 1:44:04.160 --> 1:44:06.839 goes and sits down with a fellow called Joe Lustik, 1:44:07.000 --> 1:44:10.280 who I knew as an agent. So I, in my 1:44:11.080 --> 1:44:15.200 inimitable manner, I sent a bottle of beautiful red wine 1:44:15.520 --> 1:44:20.240 over to their table and saying it's from Harvey over there, 1:44:20.920 --> 1:44:24.240 so the way to take something over to mel Brooks. 1:44:24.760 --> 1:44:27.400 And mel Brooks gets hold of the wine, is drinking 1:44:27.920 --> 1:44:30.639 and says the way to take this pig swill away 1:44:31.880 --> 1:44:35.439 and get this. But later in the later in the meal, 1:44:35.760 --> 1:44:39.400 I feel the mass somebody massaging my shoulder and I thought, 1:44:39.479 --> 1:44:42.840 what's going on around? It's mel Brooks And I said 1:44:42.880 --> 1:44:46.240 to him, I said, would you be embarrassed if you 1:44:46.479 --> 1:44:49.799 repeat a line from the producers and Graham and Andrew 1:44:49.800 --> 1:44:52.559 will give you the next two lights? He says, how 1:44:52.600 --> 1:44:58.640 can I be embarrassed? An old Jew? Then he were 1:44:58.680 --> 1:45:03.519 at the whole room, from table to table. Yeah, Andrew, 1:45:03.640 --> 1:45:05.720 we all love the producers and that was great and 1:45:05.960 --> 1:45:10.439 it's very interesting the producers. Actually I met Gene Wilder 1:45:11.120 --> 1:45:15.360 and he was appearing in a play and Neil Simon play. 1:45:15.760 --> 1:45:20.240 You were asking about anti Semitism earlier on. We're sitting 1:45:20.320 --> 1:45:23.400 in this playhouse in London and it's Neil Simon play 1:45:24.000 --> 1:45:28.080 and we're sitting down in a woman behind. I didn't 1:45:28.240 --> 1:45:32.920 know that Neil Simon was Jewish, and this is what 1:45:32.960 --> 1:45:35.439 you're dealing with. That's part of England. That's probably a 1:45:35.520 --> 1:45:38.240 clrent of Wisconsin or somewhere. I don't know, but he's like, 1:45:38.760 --> 1:45:41.560 you know, there's England, and there's a hit places, and 1:45:42.040 --> 1:45:44.360 there's places from the wild that you just don't know 1:45:44.479 --> 1:45:47.040 what's going on. So anyhow, I said to Gene Wilder 1:45:47.160 --> 1:45:49.280 next morning we were staying at the hotel, I said, 1:45:49.840 --> 1:45:52.680 why don't you do a musical of the Producers? It's 1:45:52.760 --> 1:45:55.720 so obvious you've already got music in the film. And 1:45:55.840 --> 1:45:58.160 he said something that was really interesting. He said, well, 1:45:59.040 --> 1:46:01.479 he said, no, always like to keep that close to 1:46:01.600 --> 1:46:05.720 his chest. Interesting, isn't it. And that's at least ten 1:46:05.840 --> 1:46:08.120 years before it was I mean a long time before 1:46:08.160 --> 1:46:12.600 it was released. Interesting because Gene Wilder was amazing in 1:46:12.680 --> 1:46:13.360 the film. 1:46:14.560 --> 1:46:19.240 Absolutely with the uh oh, we're not going into the Producers. 1:46:19.760 --> 1:46:23.599 So you have this run, you decide to take a break, 1:46:24.720 --> 1:46:27.280 and then you ultimately don't come back. 1:46:30.160 --> 1:46:32.240 Yeah, we did come back. We did an album with 1:46:33.280 --> 1:46:36.599 We did an album with ten CC. They were back 1:46:36.640 --> 1:46:39.280 in the nineties. We got to do with a Japanese 1:46:39.360 --> 1:46:43.120 company called Avex, which was unbelievable. It was a I 1:46:43.200 --> 1:46:46.880 think Eric was very impressed with that management. I think 1:46:46.920 --> 1:46:49.720 they got a fortune. They sold every song I think 1:46:49.800 --> 1:46:54.360 on it publishing for ten thousand pounds song, so that's 1:46:54.479 --> 1:46:57.040 like fifty or sixty thousand. They got another few hundred 1:46:57.120 --> 1:47:00.120 grand for the album that were flown to Japan. They 1:47:00.160 --> 1:47:02.920 had like a revival. But making of the album, the 1:47:03.000 --> 1:47:05.560 boys hardly spoke to each other. One did it in 1:47:05.720 --> 1:47:07.880 their studio, the other one did it that there was 1:47:07.920 --> 1:47:12.639 a complete concoction, a total disaster. And I didn't really 1:47:12.680 --> 1:47:15.120 get out of the business because I was always publishing 1:47:15.160 --> 1:47:20.160 all the American music anyhow, and then I came in 1:47:20.320 --> 1:47:23.719 nineteen ninety two. I bought a property in Rancho Mirage 1:47:24.040 --> 1:47:28.240 and I became a snowbird. And from there I went 1:47:28.320 --> 1:47:31.400 to see the Indian Wells Tennis garden, which was used 1:47:31.439 --> 1:47:38.799 for three weeks in the year for tennis, very nice tournament, 1:47:39.680 --> 1:47:41.800 and my wife Carol said, what the hell did they 1:47:41.880 --> 1:47:43.880 do with this for the rest of the year. Well, 1:47:43.920 --> 1:47:46.679 they don't do very much, and the staff are very happy. 1:47:47.040 --> 1:47:49.000 The staff are working for eight weeks in the year 1:47:49.080 --> 1:47:51.680 and they're on Sistan the other and I said, it's 1:47:51.720 --> 1:47:56.400 a marvelus amphitheater. So I got hold of Raymond Moore 1:47:57.000 --> 1:47:59.960 and Passerell, who was his tennis player from a Maria 1:48:00.680 --> 1:48:03.200 Charlie Passerell, and I said, look, why don't we put 1:48:03.240 --> 1:48:05.880 some concerts on here. I knew they'd put one thing 1:48:06.000 --> 1:48:10.000 on which was pretty much a disaster, but it was 1:48:10.120 --> 1:48:12.280 I think they put Pacelli on and it was all wrong. 1:48:12.880 --> 1:48:14.960 And I then got hold of a William Morris agent 1:48:15.000 --> 1:48:17.720 called Peter, whose second name has eluded me on a 1:48:17.920 --> 1:48:23.200 Peter thank you, Peter Groslite, who's absolutely charming, lovely guy, 1:48:23.800 --> 1:48:29.720 great golfer as well. And I got the stadium to 1:48:29.840 --> 1:48:32.000 agree that I could be an agent for them to 1:48:32.080 --> 1:48:35.479 bring action in. So my first act was the Eagles, 1:48:36.400 --> 1:48:38.000 and we get the Eagles, and then we have a 1:48:38.080 --> 1:48:40.960 meeting there and they say we can't charge two hundred 1:48:40.960 --> 1:48:43.760 and fifty dollars a ticket. I said, why, you've only 1:48:43.800 --> 1:48:47.080 got the wealthiest community in America. Why should we charge 1:48:47.120 --> 1:48:50.040 one hundred when everybody else charges to fifty. Anyhow, we 1:48:50.120 --> 1:48:53.360 sold out three nights on the Eagles at the price. 1:48:54.080 --> 1:48:56.360 Then we put the Who on, Tom Patty and the 1:48:56.400 --> 1:49:03.439 Heartbreakers Lewis Neguel who you know that we did with 1:49:03.560 --> 1:49:06.439 all those concerts and all they were worried about was 1:49:06.479 --> 1:49:09.439 the tennis surface, and god knows what was happening. It 1:49:09.640 --> 1:49:13.479 wasn't really equipped as a stadium. But of course, as 1:49:13.520 --> 1:49:16.560 I said, without I thought, right, the answer is this, 1:49:17.360 --> 1:49:22.400 Barbara Streison won't work open air, right, this one won't 1:49:22.439 --> 1:49:24.160 do that, this one won't do the other. I said, right, 1:49:24.200 --> 1:49:26.760 we're going to do what Wembley Stadium does. We'll get 1:49:26.800 --> 1:49:29.040 a roof put on the place and then we can 1:49:29.120 --> 1:49:30.760 work it all year. We don't have to worry about 1:49:30.920 --> 1:49:35.200 her in twenty degrees. So I get an architect who 1:49:35.720 --> 1:49:38.760 tells it for twenty million dollars they could do a 1:49:38.880 --> 1:49:42.720 roof that closes, right, But there were twenty people who 1:49:42.720 --> 1:49:45.479 who are ten people involved? Raymond wore and ten or 1:49:45.560 --> 1:49:49.080 fifteen other a committee, and of course the committee rejected it. 1:49:49.560 --> 1:49:51.479 And now in Palm Springs they have got a ten 1:49:51.560 --> 1:49:54.840 thousand arena which has been put up, and they could 1:49:54.880 --> 1:49:59.120 have had it easily, and I saw world championship boxing 1:49:59.200 --> 1:50:02.919 matches everything coming from there. Anyhow, my three years expid 1:50:02.960 --> 1:50:05.320 as an agent. It wasn't renewed and they not had 1:50:05.360 --> 1:50:08.800 a concert since. So that was fifteen year. How many 1:50:08.880 --> 1:50:11.639 years ago, and now I'm just writing books and doing 1:50:11.680 --> 1:50:12.120 other things. 1:50:12.160 --> 1:50:16.679 Like Okay, in the book, you famously say a few things. 1:50:17.360 --> 1:50:21.240 You were a big spender, you lived large, you drove 1:50:21.400 --> 1:50:25.439 expensive cars, and you were a big gambler. So did 1:50:25.520 --> 1:50:26.840 you piss away all the money? 1:50:35.040 --> 1:50:41.760 Well, not really piss away all the money. Because of 1:50:41.840 --> 1:50:46.840 my accountancy training, it allowed me to have control. I 1:50:47.040 --> 1:50:50.360 wasn't the gambler. That a friend of mine had a 1:50:50.479 --> 1:50:54.040 horse and he used to back the horse. He was 1:50:54.080 --> 1:50:57.320 a big gambler. And the horse won seven races on 1:50:57.439 --> 1:51:01.280 the row and the eighth races also, And I said 1:51:01.320 --> 1:51:03.240 to the guy's wife, I said, well you must have 1:51:03.280 --> 1:51:06.639 made a fortune. No, we lost. So why he put 1:51:06.720 --> 1:51:08.760 every single bit of his winnings on the next and 1:51:08.840 --> 1:51:11.200 the next and the next. That's what you call a gambler. 1:51:11.520 --> 1:51:15.400 When I was a gambler, I'd have four hundred pound 1:51:15.439 --> 1:51:17.840 on me if I lost. That that was it. And 1:51:17.960 --> 1:51:20.280 the other thing about gambling. When I went with Horman 1:51:20.320 --> 1:51:24.040 Swimmits to Las Vegas, which is relevant to show business, 1:51:24.800 --> 1:51:27.439 it was in a June's hotel. They said, we're comping 1:51:27.520 --> 1:51:30.519 everything you've got, mister Lillisburg. All food is free. Your 1:51:30.600 --> 1:51:33.479 runs three anything you want. And by the way, you 1:51:33.760 --> 1:51:36.280 and every member of the band will have a credit 1:51:36.520 --> 1:51:40.400 of one hundred thousand dollars. That's in nineteen sixty six. 1:51:40.920 --> 1:51:43.400 I don't know what that is worth today. And I 1:51:43.560 --> 1:51:47.080 said no way, I said. I didn't say no way. 1:51:47.160 --> 1:51:49.160 I said, thank you very much. If we need it, 1:51:49.240 --> 1:51:53.200 we'll ask you. And that so all the people like 1:51:53.360 --> 1:51:57.120 Frank Sinatra or Elvis or anybody. I mean, the Colonel 1:51:57.240 --> 1:52:00.839 was an enormous gambler. Brian Epstein was in an enormous gambler. 1:52:01.080 --> 1:52:04.560 But these people were, I mean, they were permanently in 1:52:05.040 --> 1:52:08.400 the money. I mean, I think ultimately, probably somehow the 1:52:08.520 --> 1:52:12.280 Colonel got out lost it. I don't know. But no, 1:52:12.680 --> 1:52:15.639 I wasn't. I didn't. I didn't blow it all away. 1:52:17.120 --> 1:52:22.439 My son said to me two days ago, he said, well, 1:52:23.160 --> 1:52:27.599 maybe you got something right. So why, I said, because now, 1:52:27.800 --> 1:52:30.040 if you put all your money away and you had 1:52:30.040 --> 1:52:33.080 one hundred million in the bank, you wouldn't have been 1:52:33.120 --> 1:52:35.800 able to go around the world because you wouldn't be 1:52:36.240 --> 1:52:39.760 you wouldn't be fit enough. Or because I decided when 1:52:39.800 --> 1:52:42.160 I was fifty that was going to go around the world. 1:52:42.520 --> 1:52:45.920 I wasn't going to wait till I was eighty. So 1:52:46.160 --> 1:52:48.599 that was my mentality, and I think somewhere in between 1:52:48.680 --> 1:52:50.560 the two is right. I don't think what I was 1:52:50.600 --> 1:52:56.800 doing was right. It was excessive, and I can criticize 1:52:56.840 --> 1:53:00.679 myself for that. I got carried away. I had Joseph 1:53:00.760 --> 1:53:04.439 and the dream Coat, which they came to me, and 1:53:04.560 --> 1:53:07.719 I had that. I tried putting it with sixteen people 1:53:08.160 --> 1:53:10.560 who all rejected it. Now, if i'd have got the 1:53:10.640 --> 1:53:14.000 publishing on that, when I met t him Rice in 1:53:14.080 --> 1:53:16.599 two thousand and four, he told me that his earnings 1:53:16.680 --> 1:53:19.360 from I think it was a quarter and a half 1:53:19.560 --> 1:53:23.120 on Joseph, which had been rejected, was three hundred and 1:53:23.200 --> 1:53:26.000 ninety thousand pound. That was twenty five years after it. 1:53:26.360 --> 1:53:28.960 So you know, if I'd have had all that money, 1:53:29.560 --> 1:53:32.519 I don't think I would have had yachts, and you 1:53:32.600 --> 1:53:35.160 know there's no limit. You'd have era planes. You'd if 1:53:35.200 --> 1:53:38.800 you were acting stupidly, and you would think you're infallible, 1:53:39.120 --> 1:53:42.280 you'll believe in yourself. You start becoming like Robert Stigwood. 1:53:42.479 --> 1:53:45.600 You know, you think you everything you do is you 1:53:45.680 --> 1:53:49.880 know you're our for cameeron Macintosh. All these people are 1:53:50.040 --> 1:53:53.559 like kind of egomaniacs in a way, you know, they're 1:53:53.560 --> 1:53:56.439 becoming a different league. I never got into that league. 1:53:57.439 --> 1:53:59.519 I don't think Epstein was in that league either. I 1:53:59.560 --> 1:54:02.000 think he had the money, but I think he was 1:54:02.160 --> 1:54:05.040 just he had a lot of problems. When I met him, 1:54:05.600 --> 1:54:09.200 Clein had tried to get me to see him about 1:54:09.600 --> 1:54:11.720 getting a piece of the Beatles for him management of 1:54:11.760 --> 1:54:16.200 the Beatles. Would I speak to Brian and if I did, 1:54:17.320 --> 1:54:20.120 Alan Klein, in his imitable manner, would give me a percentage. 1:54:21.520 --> 1:54:23.759 So I went to see Brian Epstein in his flat 1:54:23.840 --> 1:54:26.920 in Belgravia. Meeting was at six point thirty at night, 1:54:26.920 --> 1:54:29.840 and I walked through the door and it was all white, 1:54:29.920 --> 1:54:33.280 white walls, everywhere was white. And I said to him, 1:54:33.320 --> 1:54:36.560 look are you interested in Klein looking after the Beatles? 1:54:36.600 --> 1:54:38.720 We want to sell it. And his face went to 1:54:38.840 --> 1:54:42.640 the same shade as the walls. You know, he obviously 1:54:43.280 --> 1:54:46.960 Clian had obviously been busier around all the everywhere else, 1:54:47.080 --> 1:54:50.320 you know what I mean. And it was he that 1:54:50.440 --> 1:54:52.360 was the end of that conversation. We just carried on 1:54:52.480 --> 1:54:57.680 from there. But I thought that it's funny. I thought 1:54:57.720 --> 1:55:01.040 the Beatles would end up with Alan Clin somehow, because 1:55:01.040 --> 1:55:04.040 you were talking about how do you protect yourself? Well 1:55:04.400 --> 1:55:07.200 against the one person from Manchester, that's one thing, but 1:55:07.480 --> 1:55:12.600 from people with the experience and the tentacles of Alan Klein, 1:55:13.200 --> 1:55:15.640 it's not easy to avoid. I mean, you got the 1:55:15.680 --> 1:55:16.560 biggest in the world. 1:55:18.040 --> 1:55:22.760 Okay, So how many of the people from the past 1:55:22.960 --> 1:55:23.960 you still talk to? 1:55:25.440 --> 1:55:31.120 Right? And I speak to Lord Crean, Peter Noon, Tony Christie, 1:55:32.040 --> 1:55:35.800 John Lee's from partner James Harvest. Harvey Andrews is an 1:55:36.240 --> 1:55:42.000 English songwriter. Unfortunately Peter gross Like passed but I was 1:55:42.120 --> 1:55:48.600 very close with him. Janny Patsha's partner with speak to 1:55:48.680 --> 1:55:55.240 him regularly. I've not spoken to Graham for a while. 1:55:57.480 --> 1:55:58.680 Is there any bad blood there? 1:56:03.200 --> 1:56:10.960 Well, it's not on my side. I mean we were brothers, 1:56:11.680 --> 1:56:15.600 we were brother in laws. Well stay together fifty five 1:56:15.720 --> 1:56:19.840 years and then unfortunately we got divorced. So I don't know. 1:56:20.560 --> 1:56:26.160 It wasn't to do it wasn't. It wasn't my idea. 1:56:26.640 --> 1:56:31.400 I mean, it wasn't. It was kind of inexplicable to me. 1:56:32.120 --> 1:56:35.560 But I suppose that people have their reasons. And if 1:56:35.600 --> 1:56:38.160 you analyze all the patterns that split up and all 1:56:38.560 --> 1:56:41.600 the split ups that happen and these things happen, not 1:56:41.800 --> 1:56:44.840 usually after fifty five years, I don't think, but you 1:56:44.960 --> 1:56:50.040 never know. I still think he's a very talented person, 1:56:50.200 --> 1:56:53.920 and I don't think he's got it right. But that's life. 1:56:54.960 --> 1:56:57.440 I have to ask, since we covered this earlier, was 1:56:57.520 --> 1:56:58.600 it split about the money? 1:57:00.120 --> 1:57:03.080 No? Oh, this as split with Graham? 1:57:03.240 --> 1:57:04.920 Yeah, No, I don't know. 1:57:05.120 --> 1:57:06.840 Well, no, I know. I wish it would have been 1:57:08.120 --> 1:57:12.320 money is easy if he said I I just want money. 1:57:13.720 --> 1:57:17.880 It wasn't that it was. There was also I don't really, 1:57:18.080 --> 1:57:21.880 to be quite honest, my feeling is that somebody got 1:57:21.960 --> 1:57:24.520 at him, and I don't know who, and I don't 1:57:24.560 --> 1:57:31.280 really care. I think somebody tried to try to poison 1:57:31.440 --> 1:57:34.920 him against me, I think. But my trap record, I 1:57:35.040 --> 1:57:38.720 think speaks for itself. I was surviving before I met Graham, 1:57:39.480 --> 1:57:44.920 you know, so I think I helped. But as I say, 1:57:45.320 --> 1:57:49.360 managers aren't looked at very kindly. I mean, Peter Grant wasn't, 1:57:51.720 --> 1:57:57.200 the Colonel wasn't, Brian Epstein wasn't, Andrew Olter wasn't. I mean, 1:57:57.680 --> 1:58:01.640 where do you go? I mean, it's you create an act. 1:58:01.720 --> 1:58:03.600 They become the biggest thing in the world. And then 1:58:04.640 --> 1:58:09.920 I had a thing Robert Graves, the famous writer. He 1:58:10.080 --> 1:58:15.640 said a friend is like an ass. He waits thirty 1:58:15.720 --> 1:58:21.360 years to give you a good kick, and that applies 1:58:21.440 --> 1:58:23.480 to a lot of people in own business. 1:58:25.200 --> 1:58:27.800 On that note, Harvey, I think we're going to leave it. 1:58:28.080 --> 1:58:31.240 I want to say your book is very readable. A 1:58:31.320 --> 1:58:34.360 lot of these books are just you know, people have 1:58:34.480 --> 1:58:37.680 nothing better to do. But if you're interested in this era, 1:58:37.760 --> 1:58:40.480 if you're interested in what Harvey talked about, there are 1:58:40.520 --> 1:58:44.640 many more facts and stories in the book, and in 1:58:44.760 --> 1:58:47.280 a couple hours you'll finish. It's a great read, which 1:58:47.320 --> 1:58:50.400 is why I wanted to talk to you. In any event, Harvey, 1:58:50.480 --> 1:58:52.320 thanks so much for taking the time to talk. 1:58:52.200 --> 1:58:54.680 To my audiences. But a great pleasure. 1:58:55.200 --> 1:58:58.040 Until next time. This is Bob left sets 1:59:19.880 --> 1:59:20.000 Sh