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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Said Podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is manager Harvey Lisper, who's got a

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Speaker 1: new book, My Life managing TENCC, Berman's Hermits and many more. Harvey,

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Speaker 1: you started out as a songwriter. Tell us about that.

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Speaker 2: I started out very young learning the piano traditionally, got

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Speaker 2: very fed up of that, and then started to learn

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Speaker 2: how to vump. My auntie, Sylvia, my mother's sister, was

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Speaker 2: very efficient at playing music on me by ear. She

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Speaker 2: could play any song you liked, and I was always

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Speaker 2: envious of her, and I started to play by air

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Speaker 2: and I learnt. I decided, I'm not going to do

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Speaker 2: scales all day and night. I'm going to try and

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Speaker 2: do my own thing. So I started to play a

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Speaker 2: little bit of music because I could read music. And

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Speaker 2: my first song that did was a Smile in F

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Speaker 2: one flat and it was quite good actually. And then

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Speaker 2: later on I played the piano. Always played the piano

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Speaker 2: as a piano in the house. It was part of

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Speaker 2: the house, and that right piano in the kitchen teeny

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Speaker 2: Roombert had a big piano. And then when skiffle came

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Speaker 2: into England much later, there was a skiffle group that

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Speaker 2: played in a jazz club that I went to, and

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Speaker 2: I got friendly with the leader called Paul Beatty, who

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Speaker 2: now lives in Canada, and he had a skiffle group

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Speaker 2: and he came back to a party in my house

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Speaker 2: and he taught me some chords on the on the guitar.

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Speaker 2: With one finger, I could play Takes a Worried Man.

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Speaker 2: You just fit one finger around and you play all

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Speaker 2: the blues chords. And then I started playing a bit,

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Speaker 2: and I started writing songs, trying songs myself. This is,

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Speaker 2: you know, about sixty two before anything had happened as

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Speaker 2: far as the Beatles or anything like that, and I thought, right,

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Speaker 2: I write these songs and I'm going to try and

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Speaker 2: get them to artists. There were songs that were like

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Speaker 2: how do you do It? Or Freddie's do the Freddy?

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Speaker 2: They weren't masterpieces, they weren't any good at all. But

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Speaker 2: I wanted to get them to somebody and to do it.

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Speaker 2: And that's how I started writing songs, and ultimately I

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Speaker 2: got one, which was the B side of I'm Into

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Speaker 2: Something Good with Herman's Hermits first band, and that was

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Speaker 2: very lucky. But that's a long story. To get to that.

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Speaker 2: But so that was really it. I just wrote songs.

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Speaker 2: I love music. I loved all the sixties music. We

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Speaker 2: were inundated with American trash and English singers with American accents.

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Speaker 2: It was just dirdhit music. We were inundated with.

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Speaker 3: Okay, the Beatles broke almost two years earlier in the UK,

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Speaker 3: before the US. When you talk about skifful et cetera.

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Speaker 3: What was music like and what did it mean in

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Speaker 3: the early sixties in the UK.

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Speaker 2: Well, it was American crooner. Well, no, we had known

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Speaker 2: that's not true. In the mid fifties we got Bill Haley,

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Speaker 2: and then from Bill Haley we had rock and roll.

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Speaker 2: We had Chuck Berry, Fats Domino, you name it. All.

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Speaker 2: Those are all the greats of that little Richard. We

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Speaker 2: had lots of rock and roll. But before that, the

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Speaker 2: last twenty years, prior to that, we had Moon and

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Speaker 2: June and Crooner's and Love and June and you know,

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Speaker 2: awful songs. But there was Frank Sinatcha. There were a

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Speaker 2: few exceptions with some very good songs. But the English

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Speaker 2: people in the early sixties were listening to We listened

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Speaker 2: to all the doop from America. Then it was mostly

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Speaker 2: the Chuck Berry and rock and roll sort of thing.

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Speaker 2: Inundated the airways. When I say airways, that was a joke.

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Speaker 2: There was only one station, Radio one on the BBC

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Speaker 2: before all the commercial radio had started, So when I

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Speaker 2: was young, I had to listen to Radio Luxembourg, which

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Speaker 2: was two oh eight on the crystallized little radios that

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Speaker 2: we had to fiddle around with, or American Forces Network

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Speaker 2: in Europe AFM, and that's where we got all our

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Speaker 2: good music from America from as opposed to just the

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Speaker 2: crooners and all the Johnny Rays and Frankie Lanes and

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Speaker 2: everything else that was poured into the radio. So there's

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Speaker 2: a concoction of music. Skiffle was really because everybody could

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Speaker 2: play the instrument, and there was an artist called Lonnie

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Speaker 2: Donegan that started playing all these songs which were basically

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Speaker 2: American folk songs. Cumberland Gap, it wasn't Cumberland in Cumberland,

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Speaker 2: it was something else. Midnight Special doesn't mean anything to

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Speaker 2: anybody in England because there's no midnight specials in England.

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Speaker 2: It's a train in America. And we were inundated with

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Speaker 2: all these songs and they were really good and very

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Speaker 2: popular and everybody could be in a skiffle group because

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Speaker 2: they didn't have to play an instrument. They played a

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Speaker 2: washboard for a drum sound and they all sang together

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Speaker 2: and it was quite exciting. And there's a Rock Island line.

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Speaker 2: There's about twenty bring a little wad of Sylvie. All

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Speaker 2: these songs were basically American folk songs, so maybe country

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Speaker 2: folk songs, whatever, traditional folk songs. They were probably one

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Speaker 2: hundred years old, and we all played them and that

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Speaker 2: was it. And that's how skiffle started. That's how the

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Speaker 2: guitar started. That's how the Beatles started. They you know,

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Speaker 2: they played skiffle, they played that type of music. Maggie

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Speaker 2: Maggie May or whatever. They played folk songs.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So was this just a lark that you wrote

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Speaker 3: songs or you have a burning desire? Was everybody you

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Speaker 3: know writing songs? Or were you like the only one?

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Speaker 2: No. I had a few friends and we were just

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Speaker 2: playing around on guitars. We were just harmonizing with each

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Speaker 2: other and playing stop playing the music of the day,

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Speaker 2: you know, whatever it was. Where the Italian musician it

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Speaker 2: was very popular in England at the times. We played

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Speaker 2: for Lry Marina Marini all that sort of Italian stuff

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Speaker 2: was popular, and I just and folk songs, and of

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Speaker 2: course I was the party jester. I love collect and

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Speaker 2: I could make any song up lyrically. I could really

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Speaker 2: get clever with the lyrics, so I could go to

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Speaker 2: a party and start talking about all the people in

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Speaker 2: the room. And at Calypso, and I was pretty pretty

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Speaker 2: adept at Calypso. For some reason, maybe I've got roots,

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Speaker 2: but I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Okay. So one of the big points in the book

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Speaker 3: is you talk about the rivalry between Manchester and Liverpool.

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Speaker 3: Now in America, we first hear the Beatles, we think

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Speaker 3: of Liverpool in London. So what was the landscape in

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Speaker 3: the UK in the early sixties.

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Speaker 2: Like well, Manchester was the biggest club town in England,

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Speaker 2: so the more live music in Manchester and London as well.

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Speaker 2: I mean Liverpool was third. I mean Liverpool was not

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Speaker 2: really in it as far as live music was concerned.

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Speaker 2: In those days. There was lots of clubs in Manchester

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Speaker 2: and the Rolling Stones would come and play at their

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Speaker 2: Wasis or all the bands that subsequently became enormous played

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Speaker 2: at the clubs in Manchester. So there's a very healthy

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Speaker 2: club scene in Manchester, Liverpool happened when the Beatles started.

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Speaker 2: It was they'd worked at this Star club in Hamburg

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Speaker 2: for a while and they were getting their own following.

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Speaker 2: Before they met Epstein or anything. They were working very

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Speaker 2: hard getting their band together. I believe that's correct, and

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Speaker 2: they just when they happened. It was the most magical

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Speaker 2: thing that ever happened in the sixties. Probably it was

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Speaker 2: just incredible. All of a sudden we had great music.

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Speaker 2: It was English, it was humorous, it was brilliant, and

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Speaker 2: we all fell in love with it. I mean I

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Speaker 2: never every time a Beatles album or record was released,

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Speaker 2: I got it on the first morning of release and

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Speaker 2: I wore the album out before it anybody probably had

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Speaker 2: heard it, which just was berserk on the Beatles. It

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Speaker 2: was just appeal to me. I mean. My background in

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Speaker 2: music was Italian opera, which has paddled through my house

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Speaker 2: from my father who loved opera. He was a violinist

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Speaker 2: and also a saxophone player in the band. During the war.

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Speaker 2: I was just had that in My next door neighbor

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Speaker 2: was mad on classical music. And then I went to

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Speaker 2: synagogue and the beautiful music from the synagogue all the

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Speaker 2: school music and the fantastic choirs they had their So

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Speaker 2: I had all that music going around my head, and

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Speaker 2: I just I love music, and it wasn't just specifically

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Speaker 2: any brand of music. Even up to today, I still

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Speaker 2: can like a good song or if something's good, it

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Speaker 2: appeals to me. I don't say, oh, well, it's always

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Speaker 2: better in the older days, because new things are great,

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Speaker 2: sometimes rarely but sometimes.

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Speaker 3: Okay. You mentioned synagogue and you go into your Jewish

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Speaker 3: roots in the book to what degree was anti Semitism

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Speaker 3: prevalent at that point in the sixties and how did

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Speaker 3: that affect you both personally and in business.

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Speaker 2: Well, growing up, there was a tremendous amount of resentment

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Speaker 2: lack of knowledge about Jewish people. I mean went through

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Speaker 2: all my school days and everything whereever school I was at,

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Speaker 2: because I started off going to really orthodox Jewish schools

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Speaker 2: when I was like six, So I've got a tremendous

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Speaker 2: grounding in Orthodoxy and I know all the prayers and everything.

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Speaker 2: But when I went to the non Jewish schools Cheatamil

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Speaker 2: Methodist School sold for Grammar School, there was avert anti

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Speaker 2: Semitism because basically the people there are conditioned to believe

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Speaker 2: that all Jews were rich, and comparatively speaking, yes, maybe

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Speaker 2: I was more wealthy from a middle class as opposed

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Speaker 2: to the working class, which was the schools inundated with

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Speaker 2: really low working class people, very low wages. And they thought,

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Speaker 2: all you Jews have got everything. But of course that

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Speaker 2: isn't true. I mean, there's millions of Jews that are starving,

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Speaker 2: and you know, there were lots of working class Jews

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Speaker 2: at that level. But as far as anti Semitems were concerned,

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Speaker 2: these kids believed all Jews are rich, all Jews did this,

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Speaker 2: all do that. And I was a minority in England.

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Speaker 2: I had to be on my best behavior all the time.

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Speaker 2: The only time I evolved out of my I don't

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Speaker 2: call it an inferiority complex, an awareness of being Jewish,

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Speaker 2: was when I went to Israel, and it was just

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Speaker 2: it was like a breath of fresh air to me.

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Speaker 2: All of a sudden, I was I didn't have to

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Speaker 2: be quiet, I didn't have to watch my p's and

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Speaker 2: q's on Friday night. I didn't have to stay in

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Speaker 2: like a lunatic and not be allowed out because then

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Speaker 2: my uncle there had a meal, a Friday night meal

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Speaker 2: with the candles and everything, and after it's finished, lo

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Speaker 2: and behold the cards came out, poker gambling, god knows

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Speaker 2: what's smoking things that didn't my house in England because

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Speaker 2: it was Friday night and you didn't do that. You

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Speaker 2: just obeyed the law. And that's so. Yes, there was

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Speaker 2: a lot of anti Semitism and Semitism through. My wife

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Speaker 2: found it as well. She went to a school called

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Speaker 2: Lady Harrogate's Ladies College and she was very good at tennis,

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Speaker 2: really good, and they wanted her to go to Wimbledon

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Speaker 2: to play tennis. And the teacher came up to her

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Speaker 2: and said, look, I'm terribly sorry, Carol. You can't go

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Speaker 2: to Wimbled and they won't accept you. And she said

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Speaker 2: why she is because no Jews are allowed there. So

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Speaker 2: this in nineteen fifty four and this is Wimbledon, right,

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Speaker 2: So it was right throughout the whole country. Also, you

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Speaker 2: couldn't get a job, you know. I wanted to be

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Speaker 2: a stockbroker. That was my aim. I didn't want to

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Speaker 2: be an accountant. You know, I'm a gambler, so I

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Speaker 2: was always gambling on stocks and chairs. There were no

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Speaker 2: Jewish stockbrokers. It was my aim to become one. But

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Speaker 2: I mean it was just everywhere. The jobs weren't available

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Speaker 2: for you. You weren't bankers or anything. Your jobs were

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Speaker 2: limited from coming over from Europe and everything. You had

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Speaker 2: certain jobs you had to do. They were open to

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Speaker 2: you money lending whatever, you know, that sort of thing,

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Speaker 2: or peddling or working on the markets, selling stuff on markets.

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Speaker 2: There weren't that many openings for Jewish people really, so

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Speaker 2: a lot of them became doctors and intellectual sort of thing.

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Speaker 2: And that differentiated Liverpool from Manchester as well, because Manchester

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Speaker 2: was all the Eastern European immigrants, whereas Liverpool with the Irish,

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Speaker 2: came in an inundated. They were with an Irish background

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Speaker 2: and they kind of looked at each other. I mean

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Speaker 2: they kind of looked down at them, the Europeans, you know,

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Speaker 2: they're not cultured, you know. And that was the situation.

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Speaker 3: And in your business career, to what degree did you

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Speaker 3: experience anti Semitism?

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Speaker 2: Oh, very little. I think the Jewish people controlled the

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Speaker 2: entertain business. They controlled Hollywood from the turn of the

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Speaker 2: completely it was all Jewish people. They completely controlled all

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Speaker 2: the Broadway musical writers and everything were all Jewish. In England,

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Speaker 2: the biggest agency was the Grade agency which controlled about

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Speaker 2: everything in England. Every artist was a member of the Grades,

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Speaker 2: and I didn't I didn't find any anti Semetter. There

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Speaker 2: might have been anti Semetins started with a pank Era,

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Speaker 2: but that was in the eighties when I started, I

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Speaker 2: didn't find anything in the music. In fact, it was

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Speaker 2: possibly even an advantage to be Jewish, possibly because it

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Speaker 2: was like a network of Jewish people controlling everything for

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Speaker 2: the record label, the record companies, everybody that we had

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Speaker 2: infiltrated that Maybe that was because of the artistic side,

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Speaker 2: and it was an opening for Jews who always musical

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Speaker 2: and liked music and the culture and wanted to get

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Speaker 2: in there, and it was an avenue where they could

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Speaker 2: get in.

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Speaker 3: So how did you meet Herman in the Hermits as

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Speaker 3: they were called.

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Speaker 2: Then, Well, I was writing these mediocre songs and getting

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Speaker 2: no success with anybody. Nobody wanted to know. So I thought, right, well,

243
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Speaker 2: I'll get my own band. I'll do't play my music.

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Speaker 2: I'm my father, who's very musical. He sort of was

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Speaker 2: rather sarcastic about my songwriting, but I took it in

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Speaker 2: good faith. So I arranged a arranged at something with

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Speaker 2: a manched evening news for the new groups, and I

248
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Speaker 2: was going to go and see this new group in

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Speaker 2: a church roll in Davy Hume and I went there

250
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Speaker 2: and Herman and the Hermits were appearing. They were playing

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Speaker 2: Chuck Berry sort of standing there. They actually had it.

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Speaker 2: Missus Brown was actually in the act at that stage.

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Speaker 2: She was played in there. And all the normal songs

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Speaker 2: that every group played, needles and pens or whatever, anything

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Speaker 2: that was American that they could but adapt they did

256
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Speaker 2: it do or did he did he? Whatever? And after

257
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Speaker 2: each number, all these girls charged the stage. I was screaming.

258
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Speaker 2: I thought it was like a Beatles concert. I thought, God,

259
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Speaker 2: I won the National lottery here. This is fantastic. I

260
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Speaker 2: subsequently found out that they'd planted in the audience lots

261
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Speaker 2: of their friends and asked them to scream and shout,

262
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Speaker 2: telling them that an American manager was coming to see

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Speaker 2: the band. I went back to Peter's house after the

264
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Speaker 2: concert and I started fiddling on the piano because I

265
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Speaker 2: was playing piano. He had a piano in the house,

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Speaker 2: a huge piano, and I started fiddling. Ray Charles, tell

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Speaker 2: me what I say, And Peter said, would you like

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Speaker 2: to join the band? I said no, I don't want

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Speaker 2: to join the band. I want to manage the band,

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Speaker 2: and I want you to do my songs. So they

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Speaker 2: did your hand in mine as a B side, as

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Speaker 2: I say, And I got a huge check at Christmas,

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Speaker 2: and I showed it to my father and my father said, well,

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Speaker 2: maybe I was wrong, but he wasn't wrong. He was

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Speaker 2: that's right. It was just a stupid way that people

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Speaker 2: that wrote B sides could get half the mechanicals, which

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Speaker 2: is a nonsense. So I got the same for mechanicals

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Speaker 2: as Carol King, and I can't claim to be in

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Speaker 2: the same light years as her as far as the

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Speaker 2: songwriters and goffin of course.

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Speaker 3: Okay, let's go a little bit slower. You're working as

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Speaker 3: an accountant, you're writing songs. How do you decide to

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Speaker 3: be a manager? Was it something you just saw the

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Speaker 3: being and said, hey, I'm a manager. How did that happen?

285
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Speaker 2: Well, I think that happened basically because of the Beatles

286
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Speaker 2: and next scene success. I mean, I think I was

287
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Speaker 2: writing the songs and trying to do all the things

288
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Speaker 2: I was doing, But then I don't know what ye're

289
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Speaker 2: The Beatles started, was it sixty three? They had few hits,

290
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Speaker 2: and Brian Epstein, who was a Jewish boy from Liverpool,

291
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Speaker 2: started to get a lot of press, and certainly in

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Speaker 2: the Jewish community, it was like an icon. And I thought, well,

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Speaker 2: he's had no background in music, he knows nothing about

294
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Speaker 2: management of acts or anything, but why can't I do that?

295
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Speaker 2: So that was that was the thing that sparked me

296
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Speaker 2: into wanted to be a manager. It wasn't the original

297
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Speaker 2: intention at all. The original attention was to write songs,

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Speaker 2: have loads of hits and earn the royalties. My envy

299
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Speaker 2: was always book writers who just thought, God, they write

300
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Speaker 2: a book, they go to bed and they're hemingway and

301
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Speaker 2: you know that the roatis come in. You don't do

302
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Speaker 2: anything else. And I thought, and I'm like that, I'm

303
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Speaker 2: not very I'm a bit I know, and it's selfish

304
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Speaker 2: or my idea of earning money the easy way, and

305
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Speaker 2: it's just a it's a fault of mine. But I

306
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Speaker 2: always envied the songwriters for that reason, not the musical songwriters,

307
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Speaker 2: the book writers. Those are the people that were the

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Speaker 2: big things in the forties and fifties.

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Speaker 3: Okay, you have no background in the music business. You

310
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Speaker 3: can play a little piano, skiffle, calypso you can write songs.

311
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Speaker 3: And then you said, well, Ryan Epstein is doing it,

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Speaker 3: why can't die? Is that your personality, that you're just

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Speaker 3: as good as anybody else who you can do it?

314
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Speaker 3: What is it about you that allows you to do this?

315
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Speaker 2: Being swamped as a channel by love, from being the

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Speaker 2: first grandchild of a close knit family, always spoilt, ruined,

317
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Speaker 2: I was infallible. I didn't have any I had no fear.

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Speaker 2: That's why I said I wanted to become a stockbroker,

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Speaker 2: though no jeish stockbrokers. That wasn't going to bother me

320
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Speaker 2: when I'm at now. King Charles the Third at a

321
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Speaker 2: concert of ten CC, I was introduced to him afterwards,

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Speaker 2: and I said, oh, did you like Well, I don't

323
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Speaker 2: really know of ten CC, so of course you're not

324
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Speaker 2: meant to ask royalty any questions. But I didn't take

325
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Speaker 2: an notice of that. I said, but you never heard

326
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Speaker 2: I'm not in Love. You know it's on the It's

327
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Speaker 2: on the radio all the time. And he said, well, no,

328
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Speaker 2: I don't really. I don't really get a chance to

329
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Speaker 2: hear that very much. I do listen to Radio four

330
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Speaker 2: sometimes on my way to Ascot and I thought there's

331
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Speaker 2: the future King of England that didn't know the first

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Speaker 2: thing about the pop music business. And I was shocked,

333
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Speaker 2: and I think Princess Diana sorted him out. And no

334
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Speaker 2: doubt now is an expert.

335
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Speaker 3: Okay, a little bit slower. You go to the gig,

336
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Speaker 3: you go to Peter Noon's house. How does it end

337
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,160
Speaker 3: up that you progress and get a record deal?

338
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Speaker 2: Right? Well, the first thing the manager had to do

339
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Speaker 2: in those days was to get a record deal. That

340
00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,400
Speaker 2: was the golden rule. You've got a band, you get

341
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:47,439
Speaker 2: a record deal, you have a hit and so forth.

342
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Speaker 2: So I filled the date sheet completely. I mean Herman

343
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Speaker 2: Summit's are working seven nights a week, sometimes three times

344
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Speaker 2: a night, ending up in some drunken Irish club at

345
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Speaker 2: two o'clock morning to do that set very wealthy because

346
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,280
Speaker 2: they had no mortgages, no two ferraris in the garage,

347
00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:10,000
Speaker 2: no wives, no nothing. They were all single, fifteen sixteen

348
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Speaker 2: seventeen and at the end of the day they split

349
00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:15,800
Speaker 2: a pounds they got about thirty forty pounds cash, which

350
00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:18,520
Speaker 2: is a lot of money in those days. So that

351
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:23,640
Speaker 2: was that was really exciting. And with a full date

352
00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:26,399
Speaker 2: sheet it helped because I knew that if I got

353
00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:31,800
Speaker 2: somehow to EMI or somebody I could, I could get

354
00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:33,400
Speaker 2: a record deal, or I can get them to see

355
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Speaker 2: the band working and see the date sheet, et cetera.

356
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Speaker 2: And I was We did a lunchtime session at the

357
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Speaker 2: Plaza Ballroom and I went to the manager's office, a

358
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Speaker 2: gentleman called Terry Devine and on the table there was

359
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,879
Speaker 2: a piece of paper with EARI headliner. Could I borrow

360
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,320
Speaker 2: that letter a second? And I looked at it had

361
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:55,960
Speaker 2: Derek Caverett at the bottom. So I decided, okay, let's

362
00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:58,840
Speaker 2: do it. Let's write to Derek Caverrett. And I wrote

363
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Speaker 2: to Dereka, We've heard all about you and we'd like

364
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,000
Speaker 2: to come and meet you. I've got this band. Would

365
00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,240
Speaker 2: you be interested in meeting me? And very kindly wrote

366
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Speaker 2: back the next day and said, yeah, I come down

367
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Speaker 2: to London. I ran down to London as quickly as

368
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Speaker 2: I could, and I went into EMI's office as a

369
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Speaker 2: Manchester Square, where I saw Derek Everett and as I

370
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:19,600
Speaker 2: walked through the door and says, you know, I've got

371
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:21,720
Speaker 2: nothing to do with A and R. I don't have

372
00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:25,160
Speaker 2: anything to do with the artistic side of the bands.

373
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:29,439
Speaker 2: I just put physical records into dance halls. So I

374
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:34,800
Speaker 2: was really totally totally shocked. So I'm sitting there and

375
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:39,159
Speaker 2: I'm depressed and my chins down. I thought, what an

376
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,400
Speaker 2: idiot I've been. I've written this letter to him telling

377
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,240
Speaker 2: them how wonderful it is, and he's a completely nonentity.

378
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:47,240
Speaker 2: But just as I left, though, he said, by the way, though,

379
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:50,959
Speaker 2: I know there's a new producer called Mickey must and

380
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:55,720
Speaker 2: he's just having some success with a group called The Animals.

381
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,800
Speaker 2: Would you be interested in meeting him? So I thought, yeah, well,

382
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,159
Speaker 2: while I'm in London, I might as well make some

383
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,440
Speaker 2: use of this journey. And I went to see Mickey

384
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,639
Speaker 2: Mos and I presented him with the photograph of Herman

385
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:09,040
Speaker 2: and the Hermits as they were when I first saught them,

386
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,040
Speaker 2: and he looked at them and he said, yes, looks

387
00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,560
Speaker 2: quite looks quite interesting. And then I went back to

388
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:17,879
Speaker 2: Manchester and I kept phoning his office. Would he come

389
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 2: up and see the band? Nothing happened, Nothing happened, and

390
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:24,240
Speaker 2: I decided to have a brainwave. I'm going to send

391
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,560
Speaker 2: him two first class there tickets and I'm going to

392
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:28,159
Speaker 2: put him at the best hotel in Manchester in the

393
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,879
Speaker 2: Middland overnight and see if he'll come up. So I

394
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,359
Speaker 2: sat in them and he got the envelope with the

395
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:35,480
Speaker 2: tickets and he came up and I took him to

396
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 2: see Herman and the Hermits at the Beach Comba in Bolton,

397
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,120
Speaker 2: and he said, yeah, they're quite good. They're all right.

398
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:48,320
Speaker 2: And I had a really clapped out core in those days.

399
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:50,840
Speaker 2: It was my mother's. It was kind of I think

400
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 2: it was a Ford Prefect or a Triumph Herald. It

401
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 2: was just a little piece of tin. But I'd had

402
00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,680
Speaker 2: the I was so mad on music that I'd invested

403
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 2: a four in this record player for one of the

404
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 2: Phillips record players. I don't know whether they had them

405
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,440
Speaker 2: in America. You could put a forty five in it

406
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 2: and when you went over a bump, the suspension didn't

407
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,480
Speaker 2: affect the record. It still played. And on the way

408
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:16,400
Speaker 2: back to the hotel, g so, by the way, I've

409
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,119
Speaker 2: got a song here you might be interested in. And

410
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:21,200
Speaker 2: I had very good ears. I mean I could always

411
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,919
Speaker 2: pick hits, even from early days. As soon as I

412
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,680
Speaker 2: heard something, once I knew whether I had a feeling,

413
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 2: I knew it was it usually it was. And he

414
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:32,920
Speaker 2: put on this song. It was Earl Jean's I'm Into

415
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,919
Speaker 2: Something Good, which apparently just entered the American charts at

416
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:41,359
Speaker 2: about ninety two, and I thought, that's fantastic. Can we

417
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:43,479
Speaker 2: do it? Can we do it? He says, yes, if

418
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 2: you get rid of two members of your band. I thought, so,

419
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:48,640
Speaker 2: I've had the good and the bad, you know, the good,

420
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:50,639
Speaker 2: bad and the ugly. Has got to be getting rid

421
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 2: of them. But so it wasn't very It was the

422
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 2: mixed thing where the song was so great. I went

423
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 2: back to Peter's house. I told Peter, look, we've got

424
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:02,960
Speaker 2: to get rid of two of the group. And it's

425
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 2: very hard because they were an integral part of the

426
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 2: early group and it's not easy. But we said to

427
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,160
Speaker 2: the guy, look, Alan, you've got to leave the band.

428
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 2: It's nothing we can do. If we want to get

429
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:17,679
Speaker 2: a record doing, and we don't get a record deal,

430
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 2: we're not going to get anywhere. And Alan knew he

431
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 2: wasn't that great as a bass player. He went with

432
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 2: Peter to the cavern to see the Beatles and his

433
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 2: only comment was, oh God, we're fucked. You know, he

434
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 2: could have played me played the bass like that. So

435
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,880
Speaker 2: he was depressed even then. Which was six months earlier.

436
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,439
Speaker 2: So anyhow, he walked out of the room in a storm,

437
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 2: and I was a bit sad and Peter and also

438
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 2: I was scared. I mean, his father had been convicted

439
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:49,919
Speaker 2: of some capital crime and was in jail, and he

440
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,120
Speaker 2: was a fierce looking guy. You don't want to mess

441
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,719
Speaker 2: with him. And I thought, It'by's coming with a knife

442
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 2: for the next two weeks. I'll have to protect myself,

443
00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 2: keep my eyes over my head. So anyhow, I I

444
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 2: got in the car, which was a van. We had

445
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,440
Speaker 2: a van which took all the equipment round in with Peter,

446
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,159
Speaker 2: and we drove out of Peter's house and as we

447
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 2: went in the road going Alan Rigley was lying across

448
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 2: the middle of the road and had to swerve to

449
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:20,719
Speaker 2: me to miss him. And so it was so it

450
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 2: was so awful. I mean, at the time it was

451
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 2: a relief getting it done, but it was it was

452
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 2: an awful, awful experience. And then we evolved into getting

453
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 2: new members of the band, and everybody we put in

454
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:39,120
Speaker 2: was an excellent musician, and the music improved tremendously as

455
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 2: far as the actual physical playing was concerned. And some

456
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:47,640
Speaker 2: of the band didn't people like Derek Leckenbye and Barry

457
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 2: whitwom who came later on to be drummer and a

458
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,879
Speaker 2: lead guitarist, that they didn't want. Everybody had heard about

459
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 2: Herman and Hermits because they were working everywhere and nobody

460
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 2: was impressed at the time, But when they saw the

461
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 2: date sheet, Lex said, well, you know this is good,

462
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,360
Speaker 2: this looks all right, so they joined. Because of that,

463
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 2: all my friends kept telling me what a load of

464
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 2: rubbish this bout is. Why don't I get a proper job,

465
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,719
Speaker 2: get an accountcy job, start messing around with all these people.

466
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 2: Then we had a number one hit with them and

467
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:22,639
Speaker 2: something good and they said, oh, well there's only be

468
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 2: a one hit wonder you know the really happy Jewish background.

469
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:31,640
Speaker 2: Sarcasm was rife at the time because they weren't impressed

470
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 2: with Herman and Ermits musically okay, and then Show Me

471
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 2: Go it was a miss, and I thought, well, maybe

472
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 2: they're right. But after that, after ten hits, they stopped

473
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:43,639
Speaker 2: telling me they were a load of rubbish.

474
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:49,439
Speaker 3: Okay. In the interim after finding the band, you raise

475
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 3: some money, tell me about that.

476
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,679
Speaker 2: Yes, I needed money, I'm not sure. Yeah, we just

477
00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:00,400
Speaker 2: needed money originally for clothes, and things like that. Four

478
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:05,719
Speaker 2: people put up fifty five pounds each and they were

479
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 2: all wealthy businessmen, and I worked the band, had a

480
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 2: full date sheet, and they were all lovely people. He's

481
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 2: been my cousin, Jeffrey Greenberg, Raymond Abrinson and Brian Joseph.

482
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 2: They were the partners and they were all wealthy in

483
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 2: their own right from really successful businesses. And I needed

484
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 2: I think one thousand or two thousand pounds ultimately to

485
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 2: get a new van because the van disintegrated. It was

486
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:36,160
Speaker 2: doing so much work and they didn't want to really

487
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 2: put any more money into it, okay, because as I say,

488
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 2: everybody was laughing at us sort of thing. And that's

489
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 2: when I got involved with Charlie Silverman, who was also

490
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 2: very wealthy father who made money going on the gold

491
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 2: Trail of the Yukon or something. Vastly wealthy, flew planes

492
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 2: and god knows what. In the forties, my grandmother used

493
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 2: to go mad because of Charlie's father used to fly

494
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 2: over in one of these single engine planes and flip

495
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:06,160
Speaker 2: it over the back garden, and she trying to impress,

496
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 2: you know, and she was really fed up with him anyhow.

497
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 2: So I went to the boys. I said, look, if

498
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 2: you're not going to if you're not going to carry

499
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 2: on or put more money in, would I be able

500
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 2: to buy you back? And they will agreed to take

501
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,679
Speaker 2: the money back that they put in, and they were happy.

502
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:28,640
Speaker 2: There was no resentment. So I moved in with Charlie

503
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 2: and then we wrote songs with Charlie as well.

504
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:37,159
Speaker 3: Okay, a little bit slower, Mickey Mose comes up. You

505
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 3: play the song in your record player in the car.

506
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 3: How long soil you record on into something good? And

507
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 3: what was the recording session?

508
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 2: Like one incidental thing was everybody I had touched in

509
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 2: those days turned to gold. So although Mickey most have

510
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 2: had some success as soon as we got together with him.

511
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 2: How the Rising Sunwhere was the record that came out

512
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 2: which made him the biggest thing in the world, which

513
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 2: was lucky for us and lucky for him. Probably three

514
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 2: or four months for us to get We recorded it,

515
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 2: I think in July, and it came out in August,

516
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 2: and I met Mickey for the first time the November

517
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 2: before and probably by the time I got him. Yeah,

518
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 2: it's probably all within six or eight months this happened.

519
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 2: All this happened. What was the second part of your question.

520
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 3: So what was the actual session, like, what was Mickey's

521
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 3: magic if anything?

522
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 2: Oh, it was a very he was completely dictatorial about

523
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 2: the session. The boys went in. It was three hours.

524
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 2: I don't remember anything about it because I was outside

525
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 2: the studio. But they went in, they did it. The

526
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 2: B side was knocked out. I mean, everything was done

527
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 2: very quickly. Had a very good pianist that played the

528
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 2: piano part called I think Joe Webb was very good,

529
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 2: and it was and the boys sang very well and

530
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 2: they played I thought it was okay. It was a

531
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 2: very nice record. And after three hours everybody went back

532
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 2: to Manchester. I mean there was like, drove down into

533
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 2: the studio three hours by out gone and that's it.

534
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 2: And then the rest is all taken over by Mickey

535
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 2: mosten Emi or whatever they do with the records to

536
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 2: get it out. We'd done our bit, we'd driven down,

537
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 2: spent three hours, very little. I don't know, it's little

538
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 2: preparation in a way, I don't know what preparation Mickey

539
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 2: did in the background, whether he used I can't remember,

540
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 2: and I'm in something good. I really can't remember what

541
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 2: sort of arrangement, So what sort of instrumentation he used

542
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 2: on top of everything, I don't know, but subsequently on

543
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 2: future records he used Jimmy Page. John Paul Jones arranged everything.

544
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 2: Every orchestral bit for Herman Sermons was arranged by John

545
00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 2: Paul Jones. Big Jim Sullivan played on things. Katini played that.

546
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 2: I mean, Mickey only used the best people, which was

547
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 2: a shame for Herman Sermits, who weren't allowed to develop musically,

548
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 2: although potentially they might have been tremendous. But because every

549
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 2: time Mickey used this session man, because of the way

550
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 2: he did it, and that's the way you couldn't really

551
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 2: argue with it. Because while he's giving you hit after

552
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 2: hit after hit, what do you say you don't want

553
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 2: to change? Change the boat?

554
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 3: Okay, the record comes out in August. Tell me about

555
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 3: your experience of its success.

556
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,959
Speaker 2: It came in the chart iving in the forties. I

557
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 2: went for twenty three to eight to three to one,

558
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 2: and I was kicked off by pretty woman, I think

559
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 2: by Roy Orbison. Oh, Peter became very, very photogenic, very

560
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 2: in every newspaper. It was a very big thing at

561
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 2: hermanermits were really, you know, the flavor of the month.

562
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 2: And I'm into Something Good, which just such a wonderful song,

563
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 2: such an uplifting song, and you know, it's one of

564
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 2: those songs like in the Summertime by Mungo Jerry. You

565
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 2: knew first time you hear it, it's an absolute smash.

566
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 2: And so as I'm into something good, it was like

567
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 2: a one above what you know, one's a one, a

568
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 2: real one, and we were in heaven. Obviously, all our

569
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 2: bookings went up, the prices went up, money went up,

570
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 2: and we had strange things happen. You know, it's perhaps

571
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 2: that did happen in America, you know went out on MGM.

572
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 3: Well a little bit slower. When do you get the

573
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 3: MGM deal? And why MGM? At the time, MGM had

574
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 3: a couple of other hit acts, but it was really

575
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 3: a tertiary label compared to the other ones.

576
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 2: We had no control over that whatsoever. Everything we did

577
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 2: was guided by Mickey Most. Mickey Most was guided by

578
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 2: the infamous famous Alan Klein, and anything that happened there

579
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 2: would have been done probably initially by Alan Klein, subsequently

580
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 2: through Mickey Most and whatever happened all the huge deals

581
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 2: we did, Alan Klein was kind of somehow involved. So

582
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 2: we didn't do very much.

583
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,719
Speaker 3: So how long after the record comes out in the

584
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 3: UK it is to come out in the US, and

585
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 3: then when it's successful, how do you decide to go

586
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 3: to the US and capitalize on that.

587
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 2: I'm trying to work out whether it seems to me

588
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 2: that when I went into the office one morning, which

589
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 2: is a smelly office in Manchester on the second floor

590
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 2: above a Chinese restaurant with curry going right through the

591
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,479
Speaker 2: smell of curry, it was awful. It was an embarrassing office,

592
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 2: about very small. There were two men standing in the

593
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 2: doorway on a Monday morning, one hand a sigo which

594
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 2: is about two feet long, and the other one had

595
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 2: to see a second suit on. And you, Harvey Lizberg, Yeah,

596
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,319
Speaker 2: I'm Harvey Lisbeg, and we've come to give you a

597
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 2: film offer for peterter noon. And we got and I said,

598
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 2: there's no way we can't. We fully booked, we haven't

599
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:19,879
Speaker 2: got time to do it. There's no way we can

600
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 2: do this. And they said, well, can we come into

601
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:26,879
Speaker 2: de Elvis? So I invited him in the office. Very embarrassing.

602
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:31,439
Speaker 2: It wasn't a Santa Monica Fifth Glory office with huge

603
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 2: windows overlooking the sea. It was an office with no

604
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 2: windows in it, with the cassettes all over the room, cigarettes,

605
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 2: god knows what cars. It was just embarrassing. And I

606
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 2: sat down with him and said, there's no ways. Look

607
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 2: at the date sheet. There are no way. And he

608
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 2: looks at the date sheets and he says, well, you've

609
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 2: got a week there. I said, yeah, but a week.

610
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,319
Speaker 2: I said, no, there's no way. All right, we'll give

611
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 2: you twenty five thousand dollars for the no, well, we'll

612
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 2: give you forty five thousand dollars for the two two

613
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 2: for the two days. Jute and the film was with

614
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:13,280
Speaker 2: Connie Francis and it's where the Boys Meet the Girls.

615
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 2: It was completely controlled by the Gershering estate. As far

616
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 2: as the music was concerned. I think liber Archie was in.

617
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,840
Speaker 2: There were some very were sort of poppy names of

618
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 2: the time. We're in this film. And he says, there's

619
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 2: there nothing I could do to entice you into it.

620
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,800
Speaker 2: I said, all right, Cadillac, you got it. Before I

621
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,279
Speaker 2: had finished the sentence, I got it. So I ended

622
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 2: up with this huge Cadillac. The boys went over and

623
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 2: then they had to do two songs. Well, the first

624
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,240
Speaker 2: song was where the Boys Meet was a Gershwin number

625
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 2: I'm Biding My Time, which they did, and the second

626
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 2: number I think that was offered to them was that

627
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 2: I think it was a Liberarchie song or something. It

628
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:58,319
Speaker 2: It was absolutely appalling apparently, and the book and the

629
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,800
Speaker 2: boys refuge used it, can't we do one of ours?

630
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 2: And they happened to have Listened People, which is a

631
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,840
Speaker 2: Graham Gooman song, which I was involved with at the time,

632
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 2: so they put that on and that became a huge

633
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:14,359
Speaker 2: hit in America. I think that might have been our

634
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,239
Speaker 2: second hit. And then Mickey did can't You Hear My Heartbeat,

635
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 2: which was a hit in England for a band called

636
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 2: a girl band called Goldie I think, who was managed

637
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 2: by Mike Jeffries, who managed The Animals. Everything is interconnected.

638
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,879
Speaker 2: Everything is no doubt that publishing was with Alan klin

639
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 2: or There's always something weird was going on in the background.

640
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 2: But I was very I'm trying to say I accepted

641
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 2: the fact that everything was not correct. My aim was

642
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 2: to get the band to be the biggest band of

643
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 2: the world, and if the attorney was shaving off five

644
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 2: percent or this, that and the other, it didn't really

645
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:58,839
Speaker 2: concern me as long as I got to where I

646
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 2: wanted to get. So everybody said, what're you using him for? He?

647
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 2: Why is Alan Kline? What are you crazy? You know?

648
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 2: But I used Alan Kline knowing that it might not

649
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,799
Speaker 2: all be good. But I was using him as much

650
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:12,719
Speaker 2: as he was using me.

651
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 3: Tell me more about Alan klin horror story.

652
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 2: I went to his office, his small man, small man complex,

653
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 2: very self opinionated, and he has his office. His desk

654
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 2: is elevated by about four feet, so anybody's sitting down

655
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 2: is looking at him, looking at God or the Buddha

656
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,479
Speaker 2: or whatever. And he actually got out of the desk

657
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 2: and walked round behind me. And if I tell you,

658
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:44,360
Speaker 2: he had the worst breath I have ever known anybody

659
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 2: in the world. I mean, it was horrendous to such

660
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 2: an extent that I got out a piece of chewing

661
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 2: him and I said, do you want a piece of

662
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 2: chewing him? And his reply was, I know I've got

663
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 2: bad breath. It's totally intentional. And at that stage I

664
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 2: know I was talking to a monster, you know he was,

665
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 2: and he is unbelievable. I mean, he was ruthless. I

666
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 2: didn't like him, particularly because I had to be careful

667
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 2: that he wouldn't take herman's hermits away or start causing trouble,

668
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 2: as he did with every band he got involved with.

669
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 2: It was never a smooth ride. There's always a problem,

670
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 2: whether it would be the Beatles, rolling Stones, there was

671
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 2: always trouble and eventually they all booting him out eventually,

672
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 2: So you know. On the other hand, he was an

673
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 2: accountant in a record company. He'd seen how the record

674
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,959
Speaker 2: companies have been exploiting all the artists and it used

675
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 2: it and rather cleverly. But when I discussed the breath

676
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 2: thing with you, it shows to what extent he would

677
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 2: go to get what he wanted. I don't like it particularly.

678
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 3: Okay, what was your management style? I know some English

679
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 3: managers were there tutorial relative to the acts. What I'm

680
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 3: asking is to what degree were you involved in decisions

681
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 3: and did the band listen to you and accept what

682
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:10,479
Speaker 3: you had to say?

683
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:14,319
Speaker 2: Absolutely, the band were fantastic. They did everything that was

684
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 2: wanted of them. I did everything, deployed agents, managers, publicity agents.

685
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:22,400
Speaker 2: When Peter went to America, I had to go to

686
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 2: bow Street Magistrates Court to be their guardian in America

687
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 2: in loco parentis. While John Lennon was feeding the young

688
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 2: Peter Noon switching Roum and Cokes for Coca Colas in

689
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 2: nightclubs in London. That wasn't my job in America. I

690
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 2: had to look after and be very careful, and we

691
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 2: had a lot of I liked every one of that.

692
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 2: They were all from very nice backgrounds. The band, they

693
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 2: were nice. They're all from nice people. And in fact,

694
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 2: when they had the success, I arranged for all the

695
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:59,879
Speaker 2: parents and then to go to Hawaii for two weeks.

696
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:03,360
Speaker 2: We had a fantastic trip to celebrate all our success.

697
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 2: So I always involved the parents. I knew the parents.

698
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 2: They were nice, that Peter was a great boy, he

699
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:12,839
Speaker 2: was a I mean, they were all were I mean,

700
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:15,920
Speaker 2: they were just nice people. I don't have had a

701
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:17,879
Speaker 2: problem with him. We were all in love with each

702
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 2: other and the business, and we were very young and

703
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 2: so much success and you know, more success maybe than

704
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:27,839
Speaker 2: we deserved, but we got it and we were there.

705
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 2: We were number one in America, beat the Beatles in

706
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty five, four weeks at number one, keeping Help

707
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 2: off the chart. I mean, it's ridiculous when you think

708
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 2: of it. I mean, Missus Brown was done in a

709
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 2: flash one take in a studio and voices and every

710
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 2: mixed together. It wasn't even separated. It was a throwaway

711
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 2: track on the end of the album, which Mickey was

712
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,400
Speaker 2: adamant not to go out as a single. And the

713
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 2: story there was MGM said they would prepay on six

714
00:40:56,320 --> 00:41:00,440
Speaker 2: hundred thousand records if he allowed them to put it

715
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:04,720
Speaker 2: out as a single. They said, no, eight hundred thousand,

716
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:08,720
Speaker 2: No a million. Okay, if you pay me on a million,

717
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:11,320
Speaker 2: you can put it out now. The DJs in the meanwhile,

718
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:13,360
Speaker 2: they've been playing the back off this thing. I mean,

719
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:15,800
Speaker 2: it was everywhere we went. We were doing Dick Clark

720
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:21,280
Speaker 2: Caravan of Tours Stars and everywhere we went the DJs

721
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 2: were playing this track on on and on. So it

722
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 2: entered the Billboard at number twelve, which was the highest

723
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 2: entry at that stage of any racked as a single

724
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:31,799
Speaker 2: at that stage, and it went from twelve to three

725
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 2: to one, stayed at one for four weeks. And I

726
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,400
Speaker 2: was I was in a situation where I didn't think

727
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 2: I could go wrong. I had Graham Goldman, who we

728
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 2: will talk about, no doubt, but you know I was

729
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 2: having hit after hit, Peter was having it after it,

730
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:47,440
Speaker 2: Mickey Moses having hit after hit. I mean were and

731
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 2: money didn't mean anything. Do you know. I wasn't being

732
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 2: careful and I just thought, well whatever, I was playing roulette,

733
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:57,719
Speaker 2: winning a roulette. Everything that could possibly go right as

734
00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:01,279
Speaker 2: far as money was concerned, to happen all at once

735
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:06,240
Speaker 2: during that time. Yeah, so what can I say?

736
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 3: Okay, Usually at some point the band wakes up and says,

737
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 3: where's my money? And especially because Herman's Hermides didn't write

738
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 3: the songs and royalty reads were low. Most of the

739
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:30,840
Speaker 3: money was from roadwork and it was split multiple ways.

740
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 2: Never happened, Never happened. We've got a million dollar deal

741
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 2: with MGM three film deal for a million dollars, which

742
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 2: in those days was fortune, and we signed that and

743
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 2: they were secure for a lot. They had everything they needed.

744
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 2: They never bitched about.

745
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:51,280
Speaker 3: Money, and what was your deal with the band?

746
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 2: Twenty five percent out of which ten years to go

747
00:42:56,719 --> 00:43:00,400
Speaker 2: to the agency, so at fifteen, which I split with

748
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 2: Charlie originally and he left after three years, and I

749
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 2: carried on at that rate because in the meantime I'd

750
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,840
Speaker 2: brought into the agency, so it had it all together,

751
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 2: always on a twenty five percent rate. They never seemed

752
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 2: to bother about it never queried it or anything. But

753
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 2: I think when you think where they came from, I mean,

754
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 2: I suppose you could say the same about all acts,

755
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 2: but where they came from and where they got it

756
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 2: would be very difficult for them to say the money

757
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 2: wasn't worth it, you know. I mean, I did do

758
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 2: a well. I don't want to praise myself, but it

759
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 2: was a spectacular success story.

760
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:43,359
Speaker 3: Okay, So did you always travel with the band and

761
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:46,759
Speaker 3: you we no? When did you travel? When did you

762
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 3: not travel?

763
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 2: I traveled to certain I had a partner, Charlie, that

764
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:55,280
Speaker 2: traveled with the band a lot. We split it together

765
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 2: a bit. I then am somebody that was working in

766
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:03,959
Speaker 2: the accountant who looked like David Neven with a white

767
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 2: handkerchief and suit, called John Wright. He was the head

768
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:08,839
Speaker 2: of the phone club, and I used to get him

769
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 2: to go to various places Eastern Europe, or Germany, Singapore.

770
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,279
Speaker 2: I couldn't be I couldn't do everything at all at

771
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:17,800
Speaker 2: the same time, because I was starting to get involved

772
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 2: with other acts as well. But my main act, obviously

773
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 2: was Homan Sermons. I went to the obviously when they

774
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:25,719
Speaker 2: were doing the film, I went filming and I went

775
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 2: on a lot of the American dates. Any date that

776
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:30,839
Speaker 2: was important, La or something like that, or New York,

777
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 2: I would be there. And I lived in America for

778
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 2: a while. Yeah, that's right. I learned for about six

779
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 2: months in America in that sixty five period, So I

780
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 2: was around because a lot of our stuff was in America.

781
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:46,880
Speaker 3: How did you prevent the act getting stolen from you?

782
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 2: Well, you had to have somebody there all the time.

783
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 2: And if Alan Klein is Mickey most well, you don't

784
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 2: have to worry about anybody else. That's number one, because

785
00:44:57,640 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 2: if anybody was going to get him, it was going

786
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 2: to be Alc. I mean, nobody else would get a

787
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:05,320
Speaker 2: smell in there. And I had a very very very tough,

788
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 2: very tough attorney called Stephen Wise, who has led Zeppelin's

789
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:12,320
Speaker 2: attorney who they had a falling out with eventually and

790
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:15,439
Speaker 2: legal case and god knows, but Steve was a very

791
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:19,760
Speaker 2: bright operator and between us we protected our interest.

792
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 3: How did you find Steve Weiss?

793
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:28,880
Speaker 2: That's a good question. Steve Wise incidentally went out with

794
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:32,560
Speaker 2: Marilyn Monroe on that was his clon defact. He's very

795
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 2: good looking. How did I find it? How did I

796
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:41,279
Speaker 2: get to him? God? Knows well, I don't think it

797
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:44,239
Speaker 2: was from Frank Barcelona, who was our agent. I don't

798
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:48,479
Speaker 2: because I don't think Frank liked him very much. I don't.

799
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I really, I'll have to Okay, Okay, it's

800
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:54,400
Speaker 3: a long time ago. This was the beginning of Frank

801
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 3: Barcelona and Premier Talent. How did you hook up with Frank?

802
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:05,800
Speaker 2: Well, Frank was friendly with my partner Danny Batsh, who

803
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:12,799
Speaker 2: the Dick Clark Caravan of Stars came through that. I

804
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:17,520
Speaker 2: think you know Dick Clark's I'm very vague and my

805
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:19,400
Speaker 2: memory is very vague on these subjects.

806
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,320
Speaker 3: I really okay, so let me go one step further.

807
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:26,319
Speaker 3: You know, Frank Barcelona ended up becoming legendary. Was he

808
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 3: impressive in your day? Was he good or what were

809
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:29,719
Speaker 3: his skills?

810
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 2: He was very good. It was good at packaging things.

811
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:40,239
Speaker 2: He took an act on like the Who, and he decided, right,

812
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:46,320
Speaker 2: we're going to open for Herman's Hermits, totally incorrect musically.

813
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 2: He didn't care. He just wanted to get them seen.

814
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 2: And once they're seen, they're going to make an impact

815
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:54,760
Speaker 2: and it's down to them. And it was totally brilliant

816
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:58,720
Speaker 2: and he put them with their owning stones. On certain

817
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 2: nights we played Dates Herman and the Rolling Stones, and

818
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 2: trying to think everybody that went on a tour he packaged.

819
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:11,040
Speaker 2: He was a great packager. He got an act, put

820
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 2: them on the show, and the next time they went

821
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:16,239
Speaker 2: out themselves and so forth. And he was very nice guy.

822
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 2: He was very likable. Nice wife June Harris, who was

823
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 2: also in the business at the time, pr whatever, and

824
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:26,920
Speaker 2: they were a good couple, and they were nice people.

825
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 2: He had a partner called Dick Freeberg, who you know there.

826
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:34,000
Speaker 3: Was So were you a good manager or were you

827
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 3: just bumping into things when you're managing Roman's romits?

828
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:42,839
Speaker 2: No, I think I was quite creative. I think I was.

829
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 2: I was very involved in a lot of the music

830
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 2: selection of music, even though a lot of the stuff

831
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:52,399
Speaker 2: was rejected. I did try and get bus Stop, which

832
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 2: I had before anybody else to them so rejected by

833
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:59,240
Speaker 2: Mickey most and other songs Well listen people he did,

834
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:03,239
Speaker 2: but some people wasn't Nicky's choice. That just happened and

835
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 2: became a hit. So I don't think Mickey initially recognized

836
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:12,360
Speaker 2: the brilliance of Graham Gouldman. But there's nothing like success,

837
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:15,960
Speaker 2: and then eventually he did No Milk Today, and even

838
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,320
Speaker 2: No Milk Today, he didn't put out as a single

839
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:21,959
Speaker 2: A side in America because there's a kind of huss

840
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:25,760
Speaker 2: was the A side which was crazy and East West

841
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 2: was another huge hit. You know, I think, no, I

842
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:33,360
Speaker 2: think I was pretty good. I always employed the best people.

843
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:35,759
Speaker 2: I employed a p R. I was Les Perrin. He

844
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:39,760
Speaker 2: represented Frank Sinatra and then he's represented the Rolling Stones,

845
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 2: you know, a few small acts. So I'm going to

846
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 2: him Peter Noon, you know, right, or best photographer, who's

847
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:50,040
Speaker 2: the best photographer? Go to him, always for the best.

848
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:53,279
Speaker 2: I was never never frightened of you know, I was

849
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:58,439
Speaker 2: never frightened of attempting something big. Always always, and even

850
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 2: the film. We did the film because the guy was

851
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:06,320
Speaker 2: reputed to have had done some films with Elvis Presley,

852
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 2: and so he had a pedigree of some sort that

853
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:12,920
Speaker 2: he wasn't just somebody off the street that's putting together

854
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 2: a movie, but he was because it was a chick

855
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 2: flick and it was rubbish. But that's beside the point.

856
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:20,760
Speaker 2: I didn't know that at the time. So I think

857
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:25,880
Speaker 2: I think all round, I think I was I was

858
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:29,920
Speaker 2: pretty salad. You know I didn't do anything illegal. I

859
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 2: was straight. If somebody did something, I didn't need to

860
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 2: have a contract, you know. I was as good as

861
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:36,560
Speaker 2: my words.

862
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:39,920
Speaker 3: So you didn't have a contract with the Herman's remits.

863
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:42,879
Speaker 2: I did initially. Yeah, I always had one. We always

864
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 2: had it on November the fifth. It's the day of

865
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:47,879
Speaker 2: his birthday. Jay got married to his wife. A year later.

866
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:49,520
Speaker 2: I got married to my wife on the name of

867
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 2: the fifth. My wife's mother was November the fifth. Guy

868
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:56,640
Speaker 2: Fowks blew up that has as a parliament of trapped.

869
00:49:57,560 --> 00:49:59,440
Speaker 2: That was the day. Yes, So we had a three

870
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:03,279
Speaker 2: year con. We then had a five year contract and

871
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:07,840
Speaker 2: then I think we parted the last terman and another

872
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 2: three year contract. We always had a contract with Peter, Yeah,

873
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 2: I did. And Peter I speak to today, you know,

874
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:16,320
Speaker 2: I spoke to him yesterday. I mean, he's he's a

875
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:20,280
Speaker 2: very nice person and he's improved in his performances. Is wonderful.

876
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:24,000
Speaker 2: He's a great storyteller, you know, he can he's got

877
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:25,239
Speaker 2: the gift of the blindet as well.

878
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:31,920
Speaker 3: Absolutely, you mentioned Elvis, so you interacted with the colonel

879
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:33,399
Speaker 3: and Elvis tell me about that.

880
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:38,719
Speaker 2: We got off a massive tour in America, but I

881
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 2: don't know. It was more than America. It was a

882
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 2: world tour. Anyhow, we ended up, well, let's go to Hawaii.

883
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:46,960
Speaker 2: Let's have a couple of days there. So we went

884
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 2: to Hawaii and I get to the hotel there and

885
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:53,320
Speaker 2: they take one look at Herman's hermits and the manager,

886
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:56,480
Speaker 2: who is German, she's very sorry, we don't have the

887
00:50:56,560 --> 00:50:58,399
Speaker 2: rooms for you. So what do you mean you don't

888
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:02,400
Speaker 2: have the rooms. We've got reservation in Hawaii. If the

889
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:05,359
Speaker 2: people don't leave the rooms, they can't be pushed out.

890
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:09,560
Speaker 2: This is the law of Hawaii and I've stud there.

891
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 2: So I said to the group, put all your equipment

892
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:15,240
Speaker 2: on the front of the cahal. It's a beautiful entrance.

893
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:19,640
Speaker 2: So from thirty feet there was masses of equipment and cases.

894
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:23,200
Speaker 2: Ten people with all the cases right across, so nobody

895
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:25,600
Speaker 2: could get him. And I phoned up tom Off at

896
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:28,239
Speaker 2: the DJ and I said, can we what we're going

897
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:30,279
Speaker 2: to do? We can't get in. There are no rooms. Oh,

898
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 2: come and stay with me, I said, there, I said,

899
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:35,919
Speaker 2: I've got nineteen rooms. I live in a mission house.

900
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:38,120
Speaker 2: Don't worry about it. So we stayed with him. He

901
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:40,799
Speaker 2: used to put every show on, and he put Elvis on,

902
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:45,279
Speaker 2: so he'd obviously told the colonel, why didn't you ask

903
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:49,839
Speaker 2: Carvey to come and meet Elvis? And I got I

904
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:51,840
Speaker 2: got in the room and there was an you know,

905
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:55,320
Speaker 2: and for some reason there was a notice that Elvis

906
00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:57,719
Speaker 2: and the Colonel would like to meet you and the Hermits.

907
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:05,120
Speaker 2: Well okay, so I wasn't going to say no, great. Uh.

908
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:09,640
Speaker 2: There were photographs taken of that event, and for some reason,

909
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:15,920
Speaker 2: Keith Hotwood wasn't on the photograph, and neither was Carl Green.

910
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:20,799
Speaker 2: And I could never understand why why weren't they there?

911
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 2: And I spoke to Keith about three weeks ago and

912
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:26,560
Speaker 2: he said they kept changing this date for us to

913
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:29,279
Speaker 2: go out there. And I was so fed up being

914
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:31,560
Speaker 2: away from home. I decided to go home because I

915
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:34,400
Speaker 2: never thought it was going to happen. Anyhow, it did happen.

916
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:38,280
Speaker 2: We went to the the went to the Polynesian village

917
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:42,239
Speaker 2: whether than beautiful Hut, a bit like the catch Bull

918
00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:45,279
Speaker 2: at four, you know, so far in the Sweet Cat

919
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:49,160
Speaker 2: Stevens thing, all those huts, you know, lovely hut, And

920
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:53,680
Speaker 2: there was Elvis. He has white trousers on bear down

921
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:59,440
Speaker 2: to the nothing underneath, no shoes, nothing, and the colonel

922
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:04,360
Speaker 2: comes in. He said, ah, a fat Brian Epstein, I thought, great,

923
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:06,720
Speaker 2: I need this like a hole in. That was true.

924
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 2: I was fat for everybody else. Anyhow, we had a

925
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 2: chat with Elvis. If Elvis stood up six henchmen dressed

926
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 2: exactly the same, with the same houstyle, same brookriam, everything

927
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 2: all stood up together. Everything was. It was the king,

928
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:25,720
Speaker 2: so everybody had to do what the king did. He farted.

929
00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:28,319
Speaker 2: They're all going to fard. You know, there's no that

930
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:33,239
Speaker 2: that's what you do. And he and Peter Noom was brilliant, brilliant.

931
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:36,040
Speaker 2: The first question said how come you made it without

932
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 2: long hair, which is and so Elvis said, well maybe

933
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:43,239
Speaker 2: my side Boon's helped, you know what I mean. It

934
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:45,799
Speaker 2: was a great It was a great conversation. It was,

935
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:48,839
Speaker 2: and we got on really well. I'm not convinced how

936
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:52,120
Speaker 2: well Elvis even knew about Herman's service. I don't know.

937
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:54,480
Speaker 2: All I know is it was a It was a

938
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:56,759
Speaker 2: meeting that we milked to hell. And when I got

939
00:53:56,800 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 2: back to England, I was doing TV. Somebody that's actually

940
00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:02,920
Speaker 2: matter because nobody did meet meta Alvis. He never been

941
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:05,040
Speaker 2: to England. He never went to England.

942
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:08,600
Speaker 3: And what about the colonel. You talk in the book

943
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:10,560
Speaker 3: about a few conversations with the colonel.

944
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:15,520
Speaker 2: Oh, the colonel is unbelievable, great, and he is responsible.

945
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 2: He's much maligned. He's responsible for merchandising as we know it.

946
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:25,319
Speaker 2: There was a some he telled me. I think there

947
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:28,360
Speaker 2: was some gig in Carolina where I don't know that

948
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:32,359
Speaker 2: fifty thousand people in the forecast was for tremendous torrential rain.

949
00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:35,200
Speaker 2: And the Colonel had spent all night trying to find

950
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:37,920
Speaker 2: out where he could buy umbrellas. I mean, this was

951
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:40,600
Speaker 2: the head of the man was incredible. There was a

952
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 2: film that Elvis Presley was in and when they'd finished,

953
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:47,000
Speaker 2: the Colonel had said to the heads of MGM, by

954
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:49,840
Speaker 2: the way, did you get permission to use that watch

955
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 2: that Elvis was wearing? And they looked to no, Well,

956
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 2: either you take it out of every scene, or you

957
00:54:56,640 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 2: give me quarter of a million dollars quarter a million dollars,

958
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:03,520
Speaker 2: thank you very much. I mean, he was who's he was.

959
00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:07,800
Speaker 2: He was a showman who was from circus background. He

960
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:10,359
Speaker 2: told me why he used to get I didn't care

961
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:13,719
Speaker 2: about opening acts, adding package. I used to get a magician,

962
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 2: a conjurer with three mice, and they went on for

963
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:20,400
Speaker 2: forty five minutes and the crowd were going mad, and

964
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:23,600
Speaker 2: then I boy went on Elvis. Now was it the

965
00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:26,200
Speaker 2: crowd where? I mean it was? It was a total

966
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:29,600
Speaker 2: opposite to what I was doing when I was trategy,

967
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:32,000
Speaker 2: what's a good act to get the public? And his

968
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:35,240
Speaker 2: idea was to bore the people to sick until Elvis

969
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:39,160
Speaker 2: came on and then he was away and what else? Yeah,

970
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:42,239
Speaker 2: So when I got to Las Vegas. My final story

971
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:45,479
Speaker 2: about him, which is my favorite. He was my son

972
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:49,880
Speaker 2: Paul's twenty first birthday and we were in LA and

973
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:51,640
Speaker 2: I said, well, what, well, what would you like to

974
00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:53,319
Speaker 2: do for your birthday? He said, I'd like to go

975
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:58,279
Speaker 2: to Las Vegas. And we were shocked because nobody it

976
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:01,719
Speaker 2: just wasn't the right place we went, and I said, well,

977
00:56:01,719 --> 00:56:03,719
Speaker 2: I know the colonel lives here. I'll phone him up

978
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:05,200
Speaker 2: to see whether we can see him. So I'll phone

979
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:08,960
Speaker 2: up the colonel and he says, Harvey, I'm sorry, I'm

980
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:11,759
Speaker 2: just going to the dentist at the moment. I'd love

981
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:14,480
Speaker 2: for you to come, but unfortunate, I've got this. But

982
00:56:14,560 --> 00:56:17,800
Speaker 2: if I get finished earlier, I'll call you. So anyhow,

983
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:20,560
Speaker 2: I thought, yes, we're not going to hear from him.

984
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:23,839
Speaker 2: Two hours later, the phone goes, Hi, Harvey, I'm back

985
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:26,840
Speaker 2: from the I'm back. Do you want to bring the

986
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:29,799
Speaker 2: boys around so I can meet them? So now I'm panicking.

987
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:32,759
Speaker 2: Every time I met him, we'd all been in limos.

988
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:34,800
Speaker 2: I mean when he went in a limo with Elvis,

989
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:37,440
Speaker 2: there was a Cadillac in front, three behind. It was

990
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:40,560
Speaker 2: like a processional rub So anyhow, I thought, well, I've

991
00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:42,520
Speaker 2: got to get a limo. I'll go into his house.

992
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:45,480
Speaker 2: I'll phone up this agency and I said, look, I

993
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:48,440
Speaker 2: don't want any stretch wheel base, I don't want anything flash.

994
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:51,520
Speaker 2: I just want an ordinary town car please, and a driver.

995
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:56,440
Speaker 2: They send this car around. It's a gray, a gray

996
00:56:56,760 --> 00:56:59,959
Speaker 2: town car. It has bullet holes all the way through

997
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:03,680
Speaker 2: the side of the doors, all through the back. And

998
00:57:03,719 --> 00:57:05,200
Speaker 2: then he drives us up to the house and he

999
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:08,640
Speaker 2: can't go park. We'll walk up to the house so

1000
00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:13,960
Speaker 2: we couldn't show this limo. So such bad, that's my sorny.

1001
00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:17,440
Speaker 2: We came in there and he took the boys into

1002
00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:21,200
Speaker 2: a room which was filled with photographs of Elvis, with

1003
00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:26,840
Speaker 2: every dignitary, every memoraiyalty of the world, to you know,

1004
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:31,160
Speaker 2: to to the King or whatever, you know, every It

1005
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:34,160
Speaker 2: was just amazing. And he spent a lot of time

1006
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:36,600
Speaker 2: with the boys. He really liked them, Philip and Paula,

1007
00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:40,240
Speaker 2: my two boys, and he was very kind. And he

1008
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:43,959
Speaker 2: invited me to his ninetieth I think or eighty fifth

1009
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:46,480
Speaker 2: birthday party. One. I couldn't get to the last one.

1010
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 2: But I always liked him, and I hated the interpretation

1011
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:55,080
Speaker 2: of Tom Hanks in the film Elvis. I mean, he

1012
00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:58,040
Speaker 2: never had a voice like that at all. He had

1013
00:57:58,040 --> 00:58:01,520
Speaker 2: a kind of a sudden drawl or put on sudden draw.

1014
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:05,360
Speaker 2: It was nothing like that thing. And apparently somebody told

1015
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:08,920
Speaker 2: me that the reason Hanks did that voice was because

1016
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:13,480
Speaker 2: they wanted to make him distinctive as being kind of European.

1017
00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:15,760
Speaker 2: And I don't know whatever it was, but it was

1018
00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:19,080
Speaker 2: very unfair. It was. It was a bad portrayal, I thought,

1019
00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:23,160
Speaker 2: I mean really rough. And all I can say to everybody,

1020
00:58:23,560 --> 00:58:25,360
Speaker 2: they say, well, he had fifty percent. What do you

1021
00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:27,880
Speaker 2: think of that? I said, well, do you think Elvis

1022
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:32,560
Speaker 2: Presley would have had any success without the Colonel? Because

1023
00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:35,520
Speaker 2: I don't think he would. He would have children as

1024
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:37,280
Speaker 2: another country singer maybe.

1025
00:58:39,320 --> 00:58:41,560
Speaker 3: So how did it end with Hermit Summits.

1026
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:45,480
Speaker 2: Well, Peter decided he wanted to go on his own.

1027
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:47,960
Speaker 2: He was a natural showman. He wanted to become like

1028
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:50,200
Speaker 2: a Tommy Steele. He was always the focal point of

1029
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:53,080
Speaker 2: the band. They were doing then cabaret work because the

1030
00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:58,560
Speaker 2: hit side of it had turned not sour, it was quiet,

1031
00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:02,000
Speaker 2: and he wanted to be more or more himself and

1032
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:05,680
Speaker 2: be an entertainer like Michael Crawford, Tommy Steele, you know

1033
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:07,400
Speaker 2: that sort of thing. And he could go on and

1034
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:10,200
Speaker 2: the pladium and do his own thing. And Mickey got

1035
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:13,000
Speaker 2: him a song which was a Davy Bowie song, Oh

1036
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:17,440
Speaker 2: You Pretty Thing, and he had a huge So the

1037
00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 2: band split on November the fifth, right, the Hermits went

1038
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:29,120
Speaker 2: their own way and it was reasonably amicable. But because

1039
00:59:29,160 --> 00:59:31,680
Speaker 2: things weren't that great at that stage, we had no

1040
00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:34,520
Speaker 2: success in America at all. That had sort of dried

1041
00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 2: it completely. But Oh You Pretty Things became a hit

1042
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:40,640
Speaker 2: in England, and when it came to doing it on

1043
00:59:40,680 --> 00:59:44,120
Speaker 2: Top of the Pops, David Bowie himself played on the

1044
00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:49,520
Speaker 2: set because Musicians' Union regulations that people that played on

1045
00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:52,120
Speaker 2: the record either had to be on it or had

1046
00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:55,280
Speaker 2: to something to do with unions, and he came all

1047
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:59,040
Speaker 2: dressed in as David bib. We dressed totally out of it,

1048
00:59:59,080 --> 01:00:01,880
Speaker 2: and there was Peter both on the same thing. And

1049
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:05,160
Speaker 2: I met David bow who was very charming, very nice person,

1050
01:00:05,640 --> 01:00:09,320
Speaker 2: very really nice. I found it very nice. You can

1051
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:11,720
Speaker 2: only find people where they found them. I mean I've

1052
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:14,240
Speaker 2: even found people that like Alan Klin. So you know,

1053
01:00:15,040 --> 01:00:17,520
Speaker 2: it's how you found somebody and how you deal with them.

1054
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:20,800
Speaker 2: It's because you found them to be abhorrent or whatever.

1055
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:23,680
Speaker 2: It doesn't mean to say they are. My other favorite

1056
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:24,840
Speaker 2: manager was Peter Grant.

1057
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:27,720
Speaker 3: Of course, well okay, you bring them up. Tell us

1058
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:29,040
Speaker 3: a little bit about Peter Grant.

1059
01:00:29,560 --> 01:00:32,480
Speaker 2: Well, I was in America and Queen were looking for management.

1060
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:36,240
Speaker 2: So I said to Peter, you manage led Zeppelin. I

1061
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:40,040
Speaker 2: managed Herman serrmitson now Tennessee c how can we not

1062
01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:45,360
Speaker 2: get a management contract if we've joined forces? And we

1063
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:50,080
Speaker 2: went to meet them. Meanwhile, I'd been sending tickets to

1064
01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:54,720
Speaker 2: write Taylor for Wimbledon. He loved tennis. I used to

1065
01:00:54,800 --> 01:01:00,960
Speaker 2: send him tickets always getnis and John Paul now getting

1066
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:02,720
Speaker 2: mixed up no, not John poured downs. Of course. Now,

1067
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:08,080
Speaker 2: I'd seen Freddie a few times early in when he

1068
01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:11,200
Speaker 2: was fifteen. I saw him at Kensington Market, film maker,

1069
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:15,439
Speaker 2: nails polished and everything, and I said, somebody, who's that,

1070
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:18,280
Speaker 2: Oh it's Freddy And he was exactly the same as

1071
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:21,720
Speaker 2: he was ten seven years later. Freddie was Freddy even then.

1072
01:01:22,120 --> 01:01:24,280
Speaker 2: So going back to her that they had the meeting,

1073
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:27,760
Speaker 2: Jim Beach was the person that was the accountant and

1074
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:31,440
Speaker 2: he was holding the meeting the four members, myself and Peter,

1075
01:01:32,240 --> 01:01:37,240
Speaker 2: and they rejected us. So I couldn't believe it. And

1076
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:40,439
Speaker 2: also Peter was just about to form his label, Swan Song,

1077
01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:43,800
Speaker 2: and I think he wanted them to be on that label.

1078
01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:48,080
Speaker 2: And I'm not sure whether the reason they turned us

1079
01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:50,640
Speaker 2: down was maybe because they didn't want to go on

1080
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:55,600
Speaker 2: Swan Song anyhow, which I wouldn't have minded, or I

1081
01:01:55,600 --> 01:01:57,160
Speaker 2: don't think it would have been the ideal for them.

1082
01:01:57,160 --> 01:01:58,880
Speaker 2: I think we could have done better than doing that.

1083
01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:03,640
Speaker 2: But you know, so Peter and I got really friendly,

1084
01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:10,120
Speaker 2: and they employed John Reid as the manager Queen and

1085
01:02:10,160 --> 01:02:12,880
Speaker 2: then he slunk him out after two years, and then

1086
01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:15,960
Speaker 2: Jim Beach became the manager and to this day he

1087
01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:19,320
Speaker 2: still manages them. He's in Switzerland, I don't know, obviously

1088
01:02:19,320 --> 01:02:22,080
Speaker 2: in his eighties, but and he's ever since that day.

1089
01:02:22,760 --> 01:02:27,200
Speaker 2: And I met Roger Taylor coincidentally at what was meant

1090
01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:30,840
Speaker 2: to be Paul McCartney's last concert ever about ten years ago,

1091
01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:33,080
Speaker 2: which was an extra date put on the end of

1092
01:02:33,080 --> 01:02:36,440
Speaker 2: the last tour in Inverted Commerce at Liverpool at the

1093
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:39,160
Speaker 2: Albert Dock, and I was sitting next to Roger Taylor

1094
01:02:39,200 --> 01:02:40,800
Speaker 2: and he turned around and says, have you got any

1095
01:02:40,840 --> 01:02:47,240
Speaker 2: Wimbledon tickets? Which is amazing how people remember things. I mean,

1096
01:02:47,240 --> 01:02:50,800
Speaker 2: it was, it was just great. And I really liked

1097
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:53,640
Speaker 2: Queen by the way. I didn't when I was young,

1098
01:02:54,240 --> 01:02:57,320
Speaker 2: because when I had TENNCC they were like I would

1099
01:02:57,360 --> 01:03:00,000
Speaker 2: saying to myself, what are you playing that rubbish? Use

1100
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:03,160
Speaker 2: was playing Queen Killer Queen Back to Florence, and oh

1101
01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:06,640
Speaker 2: it's rubbish. But afterwards I began to love them. And

1102
01:03:06,640 --> 01:03:09,720
Speaker 2: we've actually promoted them as well a few times in England.

1103
01:03:10,080 --> 01:03:13,920
Speaker 2: But Freddie Mercury was probably my favorite showman of the

1104
01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:16,000
Speaker 2: last century.

1105
01:03:21,720 --> 01:03:26,200
Speaker 3: Okay, but Peter Grant certainly previously been a wrestler.

1106
01:03:26,200 --> 01:03:30,120
Speaker 2: He's a big guy, hundred pounds, was.

1107
01:03:30,120 --> 01:03:34,000
Speaker 3: He winning an intimidation or was he really that sharp?

1108
01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:40,960
Speaker 2: Wow, that's a loaded question, they said, you'd asked questions

1109
01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:43,560
Speaker 2: like this. Well, first of all, he had he worked

1110
01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:46,439
Speaker 2: in the same office as Mickey most so I haven't

1111
01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:51,640
Speaker 2: done very well. His first hit was Winchester Cathedral, the

1112
01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:55,680
Speaker 2: New Vaudeville Band, and he had that, and he was

1113
01:03:55,720 --> 01:03:59,120
Speaker 2: the road manager for Gen Vincent. And he told me

1114
01:03:59,160 --> 01:04:04,200
Speaker 2: some great stories of about Jean Vincent. He was very sweet.

1115
01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:09,000
Speaker 2: He had this exterior that was like a gorilla but

1116
01:04:09,120 --> 01:04:13,480
Speaker 2: at the time and I just and I had all

1117
01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:16,520
Speaker 2: the stories about him, people hanging from the windows and

1118
01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:22,280
Speaker 2: god knows what to get money. But I never came

1119
01:04:22,320 --> 01:04:24,600
Speaker 2: across that. I came across the other side of him.

1120
01:04:25,000 --> 01:04:27,320
Speaker 2: He came to our house for dinner. My wife Carol

1121
01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:32,840
Speaker 2: was the most wonderful, wonderful gormet chef, and she did

1122
01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:36,960
Speaker 2: a side of beef fifty pounds. He came in, he

1123
01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:40,320
Speaker 2: sat down on a chair, broke the chair, and then

1124
01:04:40,360 --> 01:04:42,000
Speaker 2: we put him back up again, and he at the

1125
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:44,919
Speaker 2: whole side of beef himself, and he says, I've got

1126
01:04:44,920 --> 01:04:46,880
Speaker 2: tickets for you to go to the Free Trade Hall

1127
01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:50,320
Speaker 2: to see led Zeppelin. And I said, okay, have you

1128
01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:52,800
Speaker 2: got any cotton wool in the house? I said, what

1129
01:04:53,840 --> 01:04:57,800
Speaker 2: cotton wool? So why? He says, well, i'll give you

1130
01:04:57,840 --> 01:05:02,560
Speaker 2: impression you are to eat. Therefore rows in front of

1131
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:04,880
Speaker 2: the base speaking and I don't think you were going

1132
01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:10,479
Speaker 2: to like that anyhow, and then we went. We've met

1133
01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:14,200
Speaker 2: many occasions and my favorite story, which is in the book,

1134
01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:18,200
Speaker 2: I love this one. We're in La both at the

1135
01:05:18,240 --> 01:05:22,000
Speaker 2: Beverly Hillton Hotel and we decide we're going to go

1136
01:05:22,080 --> 01:05:26,320
Speaker 2: out for dinner. And he liked steak, so I said, well,

1137
01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:28,560
Speaker 2: there's a restaurant called Larry's, which is the best steak

1138
01:05:28,600 --> 01:05:31,320
Speaker 2: there is. And my parents were staying there. I was

1139
01:05:31,360 --> 01:05:34,520
Speaker 2: with my parents. Let's all go together. So I went

1140
01:05:34,600 --> 01:05:36,800
Speaker 2: with my parents and he was following on and I

1141
01:05:36,880 --> 01:05:39,760
Speaker 2: got to the door of the restaurant. A very stuffy

1142
01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:42,360
Speaker 2: matre d ontwer the door, and he says, oh, you

1143
01:05:42,400 --> 01:05:44,880
Speaker 2: can't come in without a jacket. And of course, with

1144
01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:47,400
Speaker 2: my arrogance, I said, well you get me one, you know,

1145
01:05:47,640 --> 01:05:50,280
Speaker 2: And that was me. It was horrible, but that was me.

1146
01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:52,280
Speaker 2: You get me one. And he comes back with his

1147
01:05:52,320 --> 01:05:55,240
Speaker 2: seasucker jacket and I put it on and I said

1148
01:05:55,280 --> 01:05:58,320
Speaker 2: by the way, he says, yes, I said that our

1149
01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:01,280
Speaker 2: next the last person in the pot to arrive. You

1150
01:06:01,400 --> 01:06:03,600
Speaker 2: might not be able to accommodate him with a jacket.

1151
01:06:03,840 --> 01:06:07,240
Speaker 2: We can fit anybody. Don't you worry about it. We

1152
01:06:07,360 --> 01:06:10,200
Speaker 2: got it all covered. Peter Graham walks through the door

1153
01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:15,880
Speaker 2: and he says, I pass, Yeah, that's Peter.

1154
01:06:16,040 --> 01:06:19,200
Speaker 3: Totally hilarious. Okay, So how do you meet Graham Goldman?

1155
01:06:19,720 --> 01:06:25,600
Speaker 2: Graham Goodman, Lol Crean, Kevin Godley and myself all lived

1156
01:06:25,760 --> 01:06:31,080
Speaker 2: in the North Manchester Jewish ghetto within one and a

1157
01:06:31,080 --> 01:06:35,560
Speaker 2: half miles of each other. So that's everybody knew everybody

1158
01:06:35,680 --> 01:06:39,680
Speaker 2: virtually in that community. So and Graham was in a

1159
01:06:39,720 --> 01:06:44,040
Speaker 2: band called the Whirlwinds, which was an exceptionally good kind

1160
01:06:44,040 --> 01:06:49,120
Speaker 2: of show band type of thing that played very unusual stuff.

1161
01:06:49,160 --> 01:06:53,320
Speaker 2: They played all the Italian songs of which were inundating

1162
01:06:53,400 --> 01:06:57,760
Speaker 2: England Marino, Marini, Kondo, Kondo, Kwonda, all those type of songs,

1163
01:06:58,120 --> 01:07:02,440
Speaker 2: played them very nicely, and finished off with Alexander's ragtime

1164
01:07:02,520 --> 01:07:05,280
Speaker 2: band with all the hands going you know at the end.

1165
01:07:05,360 --> 01:07:10,160
Speaker 2: And Brain was a phenomenal guitarist. And I went to

1166
01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:12,240
Speaker 2: see them at the Jewish Lads Brigade it was a month.

1167
01:07:12,320 --> 01:07:13,959
Speaker 2: I think it was Monday night the US.

1168
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:17,720
Speaker 3: What exactly was the Jewish Lads Brigade.

1169
01:07:18,200 --> 01:07:22,120
Speaker 2: It was like a place like the YMCA where people

1170
01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:25,440
Speaker 2: would go the Jewish who looked after it, like a

1171
01:07:25,480 --> 01:07:29,200
Speaker 2: youth center where there were camps and football arrange and

1172
01:07:29,240 --> 01:07:32,040
Speaker 2: all sorts of things for Jewish people to the kids

1173
01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:35,520
Speaker 2: to go to. And they would practice there because there

1174
01:07:35,560 --> 01:07:37,360
Speaker 2: was a hall there. It was a good place for

1175
01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:40,720
Speaker 2: them to practice their equipment. And I went there, and

1176
01:07:40,800 --> 01:07:42,960
Speaker 2: I don't know why I went there, and I've been

1177
01:07:43,000 --> 01:07:45,320
Speaker 2: trying to find out why I went there. It was

1178
01:07:45,400 --> 01:07:47,360
Speaker 2: I was an accountant. I had nothing to do with

1179
01:07:47,400 --> 01:07:51,360
Speaker 2: the music business other than I love music. And I

1180
01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:53,720
Speaker 2: asked Phil Cohen, who was one of the lead singers

1181
01:07:53,720 --> 01:07:57,200
Speaker 2: of the band, about two weeks ago, I said, why

1182
01:07:57,320 --> 01:08:00,000
Speaker 2: was I there? And he said, well, none of us

1183
01:08:00,120 --> 01:08:02,840
Speaker 2: knew why you were there, and none of us knew

1184
01:08:02,920 --> 01:08:06,200
Speaker 2: you except me because I played football with you. So

1185
01:08:06,320 --> 01:08:08,120
Speaker 2: I was the only person. And I don't know why

1186
01:08:08,160 --> 01:08:10,880
Speaker 2: you were there. So anyhow, but I was there, and obviously,

1187
01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:15,120
Speaker 2: and I got trying to I don't know what it was.

1188
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:18,439
Speaker 2: The manager they had there was a guy called Victor

1189
01:08:18,479 --> 01:08:23,439
Speaker 2: Coss and he was very, very arrogant. This band was

1190
01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:26,120
Speaker 2: very popular. They had date sheet that was fill you know,

1191
01:08:26,160 --> 01:08:30,400
Speaker 2: they played upmarket places. They weren't playing rock and roll places.

1192
01:08:30,400 --> 01:08:37,240
Speaker 2: They were playing you know, maybe maybe weddings, maybe you know,

1193
01:08:38,840 --> 01:08:42,040
Speaker 2: tennis club dances or whatever. They were. They were very,

1194
01:08:42,160 --> 01:08:46,280
Speaker 2: very very They were well paid, and I probably wanted

1195
01:08:46,320 --> 01:08:49,400
Speaker 2: to be involved with them somehow. But I can't put

1196
01:08:49,400 --> 01:08:52,400
Speaker 2: it together why except that I love Graham and this guy,

1197
01:08:52,479 --> 01:08:54,400
Speaker 2: the Victor Call, he was just in his own planet.

1198
01:08:54,760 --> 01:08:57,880
Speaker 2: He was just horrendous. And I asked Phil about him

1199
01:08:57,920 --> 01:09:00,519
Speaker 2: as well. I said, well, what was he like as

1200
01:09:00,520 --> 01:09:03,559
Speaker 2: a manager? Am I being unfair saying he wasn't a

1201
01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:07,680
Speaker 2: good manager? He said he wasn't until we signed the contract,

1202
01:09:08,479 --> 01:09:11,519
Speaker 2: and I don't know what that means. Meanwhile, I loved

1203
01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:17,400
Speaker 2: Graham anyhow. Graham was just amazing guitarist and lived really

1204
01:09:17,439 --> 01:09:20,080
Speaker 2: near to me, I mean nearer than the others, and

1205
01:09:21,240 --> 01:09:27,080
Speaker 2: I got talking to him and I waited then till

1206
01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:30,519
Speaker 2: Herman Summits had had some success and I approached him again.

1207
01:09:30,600 --> 01:09:34,360
Speaker 2: I said, well, you know, would you like to join me?

1208
01:09:34,400 --> 01:09:37,200
Speaker 2: Obviously what I can do for you? And maybe you

1209
01:09:37,240 --> 01:09:41,040
Speaker 2: should write some songs yourself, you know, because he wasn't

1210
01:09:41,080 --> 01:09:44,120
Speaker 2: writing songs in the in that pand particularly I think

1211
01:09:44,120 --> 01:09:47,120
Speaker 2: they had a couple of records. Actually one of them

1212
01:09:47,880 --> 01:09:52,200
Speaker 2: might have been and are fully brothers. I don't know what.

1213
01:09:52,240 --> 01:09:55,080
Speaker 2: Then they did a cover version of something, but it

1214
01:09:55,160 --> 01:09:58,559
Speaker 2: didn't do anything. So their band was kind of in

1215
01:09:58,640 --> 01:10:03,320
Speaker 2: a to disarray and people were going into their own careers,

1216
01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:06,320
Speaker 2: and Graham said, okay, well let's try it. And I

1217
01:10:06,320 --> 01:10:09,759
Speaker 2: met his father, who is a very nice man called himI,

1218
01:10:10,200 --> 01:10:15,160
Speaker 2: who is a frustrated playwright, absolute genius, beautiful with lyrics,

1219
01:10:16,479 --> 01:10:19,639
Speaker 2: very very close. And his mother was lovely, lady Betty,

1220
01:10:20,160 --> 01:10:22,200
Speaker 2: and they were a lovely couple, and they she was

1221
01:10:22,320 --> 01:10:25,280
Speaker 2: very into theater, so both of them were very theatrical.

1222
01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:29,320
Speaker 2: And it was a nice thing. And I got to

1223
01:10:29,360 --> 01:10:32,160
Speaker 2: know them and I said, look, would could I look

1224
01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:34,200
Speaker 2: after him? And I gave him a few quid a week.

1225
01:10:34,760 --> 01:10:37,960
Speaker 2: I was a retainer to you know, keep just good faith.

1226
01:10:38,520 --> 01:10:41,000
Speaker 2: And I did that with Kevin Law. I did that

1227
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:43,439
Speaker 2: with they did a mural for me. I just kept

1228
01:10:43,479 --> 01:10:46,960
Speaker 2: everybody in work because money was flowing through me. Like

1229
01:10:46,960 --> 01:10:48,920
Speaker 2: like I said to you, it was a joke, you know,

1230
01:10:48,920 --> 01:10:51,800
Speaker 2: I couldn't give it away quick enough. Rice Weber as well.

1231
01:10:51,840 --> 01:10:53,400
Speaker 2: We talked about I put them on a dealer, I

1232
01:10:53,400 --> 01:10:58,639
Speaker 2: mean everybody that came and Graham. Graham was very close.

1233
01:10:58,680 --> 01:11:03,479
Speaker 2: He was like a brother, and we started writing together,

1234
01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:06,800
Speaker 2: and then I was involved in the writing. We used

1235
01:11:06,840 --> 01:11:09,280
Speaker 2: to go nine till five every day to his little

1236
01:11:09,320 --> 01:11:12,519
Speaker 2: flat and we used to just plod along, playing things,

1237
01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:16,200
Speaker 2: taking things out. I was acting like more as an editor.

1238
01:11:16,520 --> 01:11:19,000
Speaker 2: He'd plays something. I said, well, that's great play that.

1239
01:11:19,200 --> 01:11:21,760
Speaker 2: Why do you change that? And we had this break

1240
01:11:21,800 --> 01:11:24,960
Speaker 2: where it wasn't a brain wave house. The Rising Sun

1241
01:11:25,120 --> 01:11:28,000
Speaker 2: was so big, I mean it was just everybody had

1242
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:29,920
Speaker 2: a guitar was playing it. I said, why do you

1243
01:11:29,960 --> 01:11:32,960
Speaker 2: write a song on those four chords? And he said,

1244
01:11:32,960 --> 01:11:38,160
Speaker 2: and surreptitiously he changed the last chord minimally and then

1245
01:11:38,200 --> 01:11:40,200
Speaker 2: wrote for your Love And then in the middle, I said,

1246
01:11:40,240 --> 01:11:42,240
Speaker 2: well we need something different in the middle. Can you

1247
01:11:42,320 --> 01:11:44,640
Speaker 2: do anything? And he broke it into the rock and

1248
01:11:44,720 --> 01:11:47,479
Speaker 2: roll part of it, and then it finished it and

1249
01:11:47,520 --> 01:11:49,760
Speaker 2: I heard it and I thought, number one, there is

1250
01:11:49,840 --> 01:11:53,000
Speaker 2: no question. I was absolutely convinced going to take that

1251
01:11:53,000 --> 01:11:55,160
Speaker 2: to the Beatles. They can do it. I had very

1252
01:11:55,439 --> 01:11:58,639
Speaker 2: like I said, I don't think small, and Graham looked

1253
01:11:58,680 --> 01:12:00,920
Speaker 2: at me as, oh, man, yeah, write the Beatles. You

1254
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:02,640
Speaker 2: know they're not going to And he hadn't handy his

1255
01:12:02,680 --> 01:12:07,920
Speaker 2: success at all ready, so you know. But anyhow, I

1256
01:12:08,080 --> 01:12:10,120
Speaker 2: decided we'd go and see the Beatles and get it

1257
01:12:10,160 --> 01:12:12,200
Speaker 2: to them. So we went to see the Beatles at

1258
01:12:12,200 --> 01:12:16,280
Speaker 2: Hammersmith Odeon and the opening up with the Yardbirds, and

1259
01:12:16,320 --> 01:12:19,040
Speaker 2: behind me was a publisher called running Back, who was

1260
01:12:19,080 --> 01:12:21,360
Speaker 2: a publisher. I said, look, Ronnie, can you do me

1261
01:12:21,400 --> 01:12:23,439
Speaker 2: a favor? I've got this demo? Can you go and

1262
01:12:23,479 --> 01:12:26,200
Speaker 2: play it to the Beatles? I think that I think

1263
01:12:26,240 --> 01:12:30,960
Speaker 2: it's the number one and I'd like to know And

1264
01:12:30,960 --> 01:12:33,519
Speaker 2: and he looked at me sheepishly as I'm mad. And

1265
01:12:33,600 --> 01:12:36,080
Speaker 2: after the interval he comes back, do you mind very

1266
01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:39,040
Speaker 2: much of I play it to the Yardbirds? I said?

1267
01:12:39,040 --> 01:12:41,439
Speaker 2: Who are the yard Berds are opening up? No? I

1268
01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:44,120
Speaker 2: wanted to go to the Beatles. Who the uppers? The

1269
01:12:44,280 --> 01:12:48,880
Speaker 2: armis don't mean shit? Come on? Anyhow, he said, well,

1270
01:12:49,080 --> 01:12:51,360
Speaker 2: the manager would like to meet you. And how between

1271
01:12:51,479 --> 01:12:54,639
Speaker 2: Georgio Gomelsky and Hem they managed to taught me into

1272
01:12:54,640 --> 01:12:58,000
Speaker 2: allowing them to do it. Eric Clapton blew a fit

1273
01:12:59,160 --> 01:13:03,000
Speaker 2: He wanted the Yard to be a blues orientated band,

1274
01:13:03,800 --> 01:13:06,800
Speaker 2: as most of them were, like Lon John Baldry and

1275
01:13:06,840 --> 01:13:09,320
Speaker 2: the Huci Coucie Man, Rod Stewart and the Steam Packet.

1276
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:12,439
Speaker 2: They all played American rhythm and blues and that was it,

1277
01:13:12,760 --> 01:13:15,439
Speaker 2: and they were mad on the blues. And Eric Clapton

1278
01:13:15,520 --> 01:13:18,280
Speaker 2: didn't want to know about Bloody Graham, Gooman or pop

1279
01:13:18,439 --> 01:13:20,439
Speaker 2: or anything. It wasn't where he wanted to go, and

1280
01:13:20,520 --> 01:13:23,240
Speaker 2: he subsequently left the band. They've got a few small

1281
01:13:23,280 --> 01:13:26,280
Speaker 2: people in there, didn't they. Jeff Beck, a few other

1282
01:13:26,720 --> 01:13:29,559
Speaker 2: miners came into the band, but that so For Your

1283
01:13:29,600 --> 01:13:33,559
Speaker 2: Love went out. Georgio taught me into it. He used

1284
01:13:33,640 --> 01:13:37,120
Speaker 2: I think Brian August. They used some very he did

1285
01:13:37,200 --> 01:13:40,000
Speaker 2: some very nice things the harpsichord on. It was very

1286
01:13:40,120 --> 01:13:46,320
Speaker 2: clever and it was a very again it was it

1287
01:13:46,640 --> 01:13:49,640
Speaker 2: had atmosphere, you know, certain records like I'm Not in

1288
01:13:49,760 --> 01:13:53,920
Speaker 2: Love bahem in Rhapsody MacArthur Park, they've got atmosphere, and

1289
01:13:54,000 --> 01:13:56,439
Speaker 2: that for Your Love at the time, for what it was,

1290
01:13:56,560 --> 01:14:00,080
Speaker 2: it had that atmosphere. Something slightly weird, isn't it. And

1291
01:14:00,200 --> 01:14:03,479
Speaker 2: the lyrics, of course weren't done by the Graham. The

1292
01:14:03,600 --> 01:14:06,960
Speaker 2: lyrics were high. Miss A seventeen year old doesn't write

1293
01:14:07,560 --> 01:14:09,639
Speaker 2: I'd give the moon if it were mine to give.

1294
01:14:10,040 --> 01:14:13,000
Speaker 2: I mean, not in the sixteen year old guy from school.

1295
01:14:13,080 --> 01:14:15,400
Speaker 2: I might know it. So I'm an artist from his father.

1296
01:14:15,439 --> 01:14:17,759
Speaker 2: And it was great. It was a great, great lyric

1297
01:14:18,400 --> 01:14:20,680
Speaker 2: And of course then the thing went to number one.

1298
01:14:21,400 --> 01:14:25,280
Speaker 2: I mean, as I said, everything I had touched turned

1299
01:14:25,360 --> 01:14:30,320
Speaker 2: to gold. I mean, it really did. I should have

1300
01:14:30,439 --> 01:14:34,880
Speaker 2: known that things would change, but it was certainly. It

1301
01:14:35,040 --> 01:14:36,600
Speaker 2: was certainly a golden era for me.

1302
01:14:37,600 --> 01:14:40,720
Speaker 3: So after a four year love, how does the songwriting

1303
01:14:40,840 --> 01:14:41,920
Speaker 3: continue with Graham?

1304
01:14:42,840 --> 01:14:44,880
Speaker 2: I thought of the titles A Heart full of Soul.

1305
01:14:45,560 --> 01:14:49,000
Speaker 2: That's my claim to fame. So technically I'm a co writer,

1306
01:14:49,479 --> 01:14:52,240
Speaker 2: and technically I wrote half the lyrics because it's repeated

1307
01:14:52,280 --> 01:14:57,040
Speaker 2: about nine times. But other than that, yeah, So I

1308
01:14:57,479 --> 01:15:01,280
Speaker 2: got involved. Kevin Lolan was done. Next thing we did,

1309
01:15:01,800 --> 01:15:04,960
Speaker 2: and Kevin now brought me beautiful songs. Graham and I

1310
01:15:05,439 --> 01:15:07,960
Speaker 2: we were going to publish them, and we we did it.

1311
01:15:08,479 --> 01:15:11,599
Speaker 2: We decided we joined the company together myself and Graham

1312
01:15:11,840 --> 01:15:15,240
Speaker 2: called our new Music, and I think we also put

1313
01:15:15,360 --> 01:15:17,320
Speaker 2: some of Graham's songs in it as well. I think

1314
01:15:17,640 --> 01:15:21,920
Speaker 2: maybe even no milk today went in it. And we

1315
01:15:22,200 --> 01:15:24,519
Speaker 2: just did that fifty to fifty myself with Graham, so

1316
01:15:24,640 --> 01:15:28,160
Speaker 2: it was like it was done with Campbell Connelly. They

1317
01:15:28,200 --> 01:15:31,320
Speaker 2: had fifty and we had fifty percent. I was fed

1318
01:15:31,439 --> 01:15:37,639
Speaker 2: up about for your love's royalties. Graham was getting fifty percent,

1319
01:15:37,760 --> 01:15:41,719
Speaker 2: and then it was fifty percent for Overseas Publishing, which

1320
01:15:41,840 --> 01:15:45,960
Speaker 2: was just so that was the end as far as

1321
01:15:46,040 --> 01:15:48,800
Speaker 2: I was concerned. And we I just did a heart

1322
01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:51,320
Speaker 2: full of soul deal because we didn't have time to

1323
01:15:51,400 --> 01:15:53,559
Speaker 2: really and afterwards we said, right, we'll go our own

1324
01:15:53,600 --> 01:15:56,360
Speaker 2: publishing company. We're not going through all this nonsense again.

1325
01:15:56,720 --> 01:15:59,080
Speaker 2: And that was it and we formed man Well, I

1326
01:15:59,200 --> 01:16:05,040
Speaker 2: formed mankm Us in America and that was in sixty

1327
01:16:05,120 --> 01:16:11,360
Speaker 2: five or something. And yeah, so that that's what goded

1328
01:16:11,400 --> 01:16:13,040
Speaker 2: me to do my own publishing company.

1329
01:16:13,840 --> 01:16:17,680
Speaker 3: Okay, So when you put Graham's new songs in that

1330
01:16:17,920 --> 01:16:22,320
Speaker 3: publishing company, how was the split? And it was just

1331
01:16:22,439 --> 01:16:23,000
Speaker 3: the two of you.

1332
01:16:23,439 --> 01:16:26,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, we split and we split the publishing share with

1333
01:16:28,120 --> 01:16:31,880
Speaker 2: Cambel Kennelly and then Graham got the writer's share.

1334
01:16:32,439 --> 01:16:35,679
Speaker 3: Okay, so you split twenty five and he got fifty

1335
01:16:35,840 --> 01:16:39,840
Speaker 3: he got Okay, who owns that stuff?

1336
01:16:39,880 --> 01:16:43,040
Speaker 2: Today Campbell and Early brought it back and it's bought

1337
01:16:43,080 --> 01:16:47,320
Speaker 2: by Wise Music. Now it's gone down the chain. You know,

1338
01:16:47,680 --> 01:16:50,439
Speaker 2: Campbell Cannelley was sold, this was so and acquired and

1339
01:16:50,560 --> 01:16:51,000
Speaker 2: so forth.

1340
01:16:51,040 --> 01:16:53,599
Speaker 3: Well, I guess what I'm saying. Have you sold your

1341
01:16:53,720 --> 01:16:54,439
Speaker 3: share and as well?

1342
01:16:54,479 --> 01:16:56,840
Speaker 2: Now I sell my share. I'm graham share A long

1343
01:16:56,920 --> 01:17:01,320
Speaker 2: time ago. Was mistake. Obviously we sold it in about

1344
01:17:01,400 --> 01:17:03,479
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty seven. I think we got two and a

1345
01:17:03,520 --> 01:17:07,280
Speaker 2: half thousand pounds each for it. And does he still

1346
01:17:07,320 --> 01:17:11,639
Speaker 2: have his writer's share? No, No, I sold that too,

1347
01:17:13,200 --> 01:17:17,799
Speaker 2: the writer's share. I acquired the writer's share when they sold.

1348
01:17:18,720 --> 01:17:22,679
Speaker 2: They sold all their rights virtually in nineteen ninety three

1349
01:17:22,840 --> 01:17:27,360
Speaker 2: or six or something. They sold to Saint Ann's was

1350
01:17:27,439 --> 01:17:31,040
Speaker 2: sold to EMI firstly, and then every member of Tennessee

1351
01:17:31,120 --> 01:17:34,759
Speaker 2: C other than Long sold their rights because of various

1352
01:17:35,240 --> 01:17:39,000
Speaker 2: financial implications they had at the time. They needed money

1353
01:17:39,000 --> 01:17:41,479
Speaker 2: and they couldn't acquire it or whatever, and they sold

1354
01:17:41,600 --> 01:17:45,680
Speaker 2: for considerable amount of money. And I acquired the American

1355
01:17:45,800 --> 01:17:53,240
Speaker 2: rights because I asked Graham, Eric and Kevin I think

1356
01:17:53,560 --> 01:17:55,120
Speaker 2: at the time, you know, said, look, if you're going

1357
01:17:55,200 --> 01:17:58,040
Speaker 2: to sell to EMI for the world, why do you

1358
01:17:58,120 --> 01:17:59,920
Speaker 2: let me buy the rights, I'll give you a better deal,

1359
01:18:00,200 --> 01:18:04,600
Speaker 2: which I did, and you know, let me look after it.

1360
01:18:04,640 --> 01:18:07,760
Speaker 2: They're my babies as well. So I still published the

1361
01:18:09,520 --> 01:18:14,920
Speaker 2: the songs even to today, of subjects to reversions obviously

1362
01:18:15,640 --> 01:18:18,080
Speaker 2: of Tennessee c in America.

1363
01:18:19,479 --> 01:18:22,720
Speaker 3: And in America we have the right of reversion.

1364
01:18:23,040 --> 01:18:26,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, that will all work. When it works. Yeah, when

1365
01:18:26,280 --> 01:18:26,679
Speaker 2: it works.

1366
01:18:26,680 --> 01:18:27,160
Speaker 3: A good point.

1367
01:18:28,080 --> 01:18:29,840
Speaker 2: When it works, I'm talking about on the time period

1368
01:18:29,880 --> 01:18:31,120
Speaker 2: of the thing, right.

1369
01:18:31,800 --> 01:18:34,400
Speaker 3: So do they have any of their rights back?

1370
01:18:34,800 --> 01:18:35,320
Speaker 2: They will have.

1371
01:18:37,080 --> 01:18:39,120
Speaker 3: Okay, let's get back to the narrative. So you're working

1372
01:18:39,200 --> 01:18:42,080
Speaker 3: with Graham. You're having this incredible success. How do you

1373
01:18:42,200 --> 01:18:43,599
Speaker 3: get the songs to the Hollys.

1374
01:18:48,200 --> 01:18:51,639
Speaker 2: I didn't. I think Graham got them through it one

1375
01:18:51,680 --> 01:18:55,280
Speaker 2: way or another because of Graham Nash. Although the Hollies

1376
01:18:55,320 --> 01:18:58,839
Speaker 2: were managed by fellow or Michael Cohen, who's my wife's

1377
01:18:58,880 --> 01:19:02,479
Speaker 2: first cousin. I was quite close with him. But I

1378
01:19:02,600 --> 01:19:06,919
Speaker 2: think Graham got them to Graham got them to Graham Nash. Somehow.

1379
01:19:07,439 --> 01:19:09,000
Speaker 2: I got the song and I tried to get it

1380
01:19:09,040 --> 01:19:11,479
Speaker 2: for Herman's Hermits, and I went to Mickey Most who

1381
01:19:12,000 --> 01:19:14,840
Speaker 2: just rejected it. And I was very upset because I

1382
01:19:14,920 --> 01:19:18,120
Speaker 2: thought it was a super song. I was in Israel

1383
01:19:18,800 --> 01:19:20,760
Speaker 2: and when I got back, Graham said, I've written a

1384
01:19:20,800 --> 01:19:24,080
Speaker 2: new song. I said, okay, and I come around to

1385
01:19:24,120 --> 01:19:25,680
Speaker 2: the house. He came out to my house and we

1386
01:19:25,760 --> 01:19:30,439
Speaker 2: had this horrendous Epstein furniture which was like so big

1387
01:19:30,560 --> 01:19:33,000
Speaker 2: you could filled the whole room. And he sat in

1388
01:19:33,080 --> 01:19:37,280
Speaker 2: this huge armchair with one foot laps on both sides

1389
01:19:37,360 --> 01:19:41,040
Speaker 2: with this thick material. And Graham gets on and starts

1390
01:19:41,120 --> 01:19:44,760
Speaker 2: playing bus stop. He plays it right through with the

1391
01:19:44,880 --> 01:19:48,200
Speaker 2: reff everything, and I just sat back. I thought, oh

1392
01:19:48,320 --> 01:19:52,240
Speaker 2: my god, that is incredible. It's possibly his best song,

1393
01:19:52,320 --> 01:19:55,439
Speaker 2: you know. It was just it was amazing. It had

1394
01:19:55,520 --> 01:19:58,800
Speaker 2: the feel of the time, The lyric was charming, the

1395
01:19:58,960 --> 01:20:02,639
Speaker 2: song was incredible. How can Mickey most turn it down? Well,

1396
01:20:02,720 --> 01:20:06,559
Speaker 2: in one word, No, that WASNX and the the exide.

1397
01:20:06,640 --> 01:20:09,559
Speaker 2: I think Grahamer got it to the Hollies. The Hollis

1398
01:20:09,600 --> 01:20:12,200
Speaker 2: had done an initial song of Graham had written a

1399
01:20:12,280 --> 01:20:15,519
Speaker 2: song with Charlie call look Through Any Window, So that's

1400
01:20:15,560 --> 01:20:17,400
Speaker 2: probably how they got it because that had a success

1401
01:20:17,439 --> 01:20:19,680
Speaker 2: as well. That was a top twenty in England, so

1402
01:20:19,800 --> 01:20:21,160
Speaker 2: that's probably how that happened.

1403
01:20:22,760 --> 01:20:27,240
Speaker 3: So how does Graham as an individual song writer morph

1404
01:20:27,479 --> 01:20:32,600
Speaker 3: into ten CC, Strawberry Studios, Eric Stewart and everybody.

1405
01:20:35,439 --> 01:20:39,599
Speaker 2: He starts off with Oerx Stewart. I mean I bought,

1406
01:20:39,680 --> 01:20:42,479
Speaker 2: as I saying, to the agency, Kennedy Street Agency. I

1407
01:20:42,560 --> 01:20:45,479
Speaker 2: bought the partners out of that. They had Freddy and

1408
01:20:45,520 --> 01:20:48,920
Speaker 2: the Dreamers and when Fontana and between us we had

1409
01:20:49,040 --> 01:20:52,000
Speaker 2: one two and three in Billboard one week with when Fontana,

1410
01:20:53,520 --> 01:20:55,800
Speaker 2: Freddie and Herman one two and three. So that was

1411
01:20:55,840 --> 01:20:58,680
Speaker 2: all right from Manchester, which was our aim always to

1412
01:20:58,720 --> 01:21:08,439
Speaker 2: stay in Manchester. I I'm trying to think, and yeah,

1413
01:21:08,479 --> 01:21:11,320
Speaker 2: that's right. Then Wayne Fontana had the big the Game

1414
01:21:11,400 --> 01:21:14,760
Speaker 2: of Love. I think then the mind Wayne Fontana and

1415
01:21:14,800 --> 01:21:18,599
Speaker 2: the mind Benders split up mind Men as a hit

1416
01:21:19,120 --> 01:21:22,040
Speaker 2: called Groovy Kind of Love, which went to number one

1417
01:21:22,080 --> 01:21:26,479
Speaker 2: world wide. I think was was it Gothinking might have been.

1418
01:21:26,520 --> 01:21:28,160
Speaker 2: I don't know who it was. It was, It was

1419
01:21:28,200 --> 01:21:30,280
Speaker 2: a very big writers anyhow, it was a great song.

1420
01:21:30,840 --> 01:21:35,040
Speaker 2: And then Graham joined with Eric in the Mind Benders.

1421
01:21:35,479 --> 01:21:38,160
Speaker 2: I don't know why, but that happened. So that's their

1422
01:21:38,520 --> 01:21:42,760
Speaker 2: first thing together. I'd met Wayne Fontana and Eric in

1423
01:21:42,880 --> 01:21:45,519
Speaker 2: America on tour when I was touring home and I

1424
01:21:45,600 --> 01:21:49,639
Speaker 2: met him for the first time. Very good looking, very charming, nice,

1425
01:21:49,960 --> 01:21:57,560
Speaker 2: very nice, very nice person and at the time, so

1426
01:21:58,880 --> 01:22:02,000
Speaker 2: they got together. Then then we always had this dilemma

1427
01:22:02,320 --> 01:22:05,240
Speaker 2: of having to go to London to record, which was

1428
01:22:05,320 --> 01:22:08,960
Speaker 2: a pain in the ass. So they decided they wanted

1429
01:22:09,000 --> 01:22:12,680
Speaker 2: to start a recording studio in Manchester. We invested in

1430
01:22:12,760 --> 01:22:17,759
Speaker 2: the studio Kennedy Street, our company. Dixon, who was managing

1431
01:22:17,880 --> 01:22:20,519
Speaker 2: Eric at the time, also was employed by Kennedy Street.

1432
01:22:21,040 --> 01:22:24,080
Speaker 2: He was supervised a lot of the work in the

1433
01:22:24,200 --> 01:22:29,639
Speaker 2: studio and they developed a Strawberry studio. Once that studio

1434
01:22:29,840 --> 01:22:32,920
Speaker 2: was going, Graham in the meantime had been writing and

1435
01:22:33,040 --> 01:22:35,639
Speaker 2: he was doing songs. He went to America to write

1436
01:22:35,680 --> 01:22:39,360
Speaker 2: for Kaznuts Cats on some kind of a deal, and

1437
01:22:40,960 --> 01:22:44,280
Speaker 2: then he used to do demos of the songs and

1438
01:22:44,360 --> 01:22:47,959
Speaker 2: put them out in England to try and have success

1439
01:22:48,040 --> 01:22:51,720
Speaker 2: with various tracks that they all wrote together. Really good

1440
01:22:51,760 --> 01:22:56,720
Speaker 2: stuff read songs that nobody's ever heard, but they were

1441
01:22:56,760 --> 01:22:59,760
Speaker 2: really good. They were utilizing the studio to get it.

1442
01:23:00,920 --> 01:23:03,679
Speaker 2: Then when it really happened was when they were testing

1443
01:23:03,800 --> 01:23:07,120
Speaker 2: drum equipment or something and kevil Ola and Eric came

1444
01:23:07,200 --> 01:23:10,799
Speaker 2: up with neanderthal Man, which was huge hit in England,

1445
01:23:10,880 --> 01:23:15,560
Speaker 2: a song Obscure Song, And when Graham joined, then that

1446
01:23:15,840 --> 01:23:19,840
Speaker 2: band to put with Moody Blues on some tour, and

1447
01:23:20,360 --> 01:23:23,120
Speaker 2: then the four of them used to do session work

1448
01:23:23,240 --> 01:23:26,400
Speaker 2: all the time for anybody that came. So we had

1449
01:23:26,439 --> 01:23:29,599
Speaker 2: an artist called Ramses and they did a whole album

1450
01:23:29,640 --> 01:23:35,320
Speaker 2: with Rameses. And then through my meeting Tony Christie and

1451
01:23:35,720 --> 01:23:40,720
Speaker 2: being my real second act, probably after Herman's Thermit's or no,

1452
01:23:41,040 --> 01:23:44,280
Speaker 2: after Graham, Tony Christie was the next person on the

1453
01:23:44,400 --> 01:23:48,280
Speaker 2: scene and he had a very good voice. You liked

1454
01:23:48,320 --> 01:23:51,640
Speaker 2: Tom Jones. I was in America the bal Building with

1455
01:23:51,720 --> 01:23:54,880
Speaker 2: Donny Kirshner, who I was quite friendly with her liked

1456
01:23:54,920 --> 01:23:58,520
Speaker 2: a lot, And I said, whatever happened to Nil Sadhaka,

1457
01:23:58,800 --> 01:24:02,679
Speaker 2: one of my teenage loves, And he said he's upstairs.

1458
01:24:03,479 --> 01:24:05,200
Speaker 2: He said, you're kidding. He said, can I hear it?

1459
01:24:05,280 --> 01:24:07,479
Speaker 2: Because I'm with my wife Carol, Let's go and see him.

1460
01:24:07,760 --> 01:24:10,320
Speaker 2: So we went up to this little room ten feet

1461
01:24:10,360 --> 01:24:13,519
Speaker 2: by six with a big upright piano, and Donnie says, Neil,

1462
01:24:13,560 --> 01:24:16,160
Speaker 2: playing some of your new stuff. They played five tracks.

1463
01:24:17,080 --> 01:24:19,240
Speaker 2: The last one was is this the Way to Amarillo?

1464
01:24:20,080 --> 01:24:22,840
Speaker 2: And I said that's it. That's a smash. I like that,

1465
01:24:23,240 --> 01:24:26,080
Speaker 2: and Donnie looked at him. It's Neil, and Neil looked

1466
01:24:26,080 --> 01:24:30,160
Speaker 2: at Donnie and they said, this guy is crazy. They didn't.

1467
01:24:30,200 --> 01:24:32,080
Speaker 2: They just looked at it. They didn't. They didn't like

1468
01:24:32,160 --> 01:24:35,200
Speaker 2: the song. Anyhow. I get back to England and now

1469
01:24:35,320 --> 01:24:37,760
Speaker 2: Carol's driving me mad. Have you got a demo for

1470
01:24:37,880 --> 01:24:40,800
Speaker 2: that song? Get the demo? And I'm phoning Donna Cashion.

1471
01:24:40,840 --> 01:24:43,519
Speaker 2: It was like with Mickey most It's like getting things

1472
01:24:43,560 --> 01:24:45,840
Speaker 2: out of people was so hard. You had to have

1473
01:24:46,040 --> 01:24:49,880
Speaker 2: my kind of persistence or ignorance or whatever you call it,

1474
01:24:50,800 --> 01:24:53,640
Speaker 2: or what there's a better word than that kutzper to

1475
01:24:54,200 --> 01:24:58,080
Speaker 2: truly drive people mad. So and finally he sent me

1476
01:24:58,120 --> 01:25:00,800
Speaker 2: a demo of Amarillo. I went to London. It was

1477
01:25:00,840 --> 01:25:03,479
Speaker 2: recorded the next day. It was put in the charts.

1478
01:25:03,520 --> 01:25:05,960
Speaker 2: Two weeks later he got to eighteen, which I thought

1479
01:25:06,080 --> 01:25:09,479
Speaker 2: was crap. I thought that it was much better than that. Anyhow,

1480
01:25:09,560 --> 01:25:13,400
Speaker 2: twenty five years later, Peter care comedian did a thing

1481
01:25:13,520 --> 01:25:16,120
Speaker 2: for BBC which is a Red Nose Day, which is

1482
01:25:16,240 --> 01:25:18,800
Speaker 2: to do with charity, and they did a new video

1483
01:25:19,000 --> 01:25:21,000
Speaker 2: and they used it is this the way to Amarilla.

1484
01:25:21,320 --> 01:25:23,559
Speaker 2: It became the biggest record of two thousand and four

1485
01:25:23,880 --> 01:25:27,000
Speaker 2: and was number one for twelve weeks in the UK charts.

1486
01:25:27,360 --> 01:25:29,400
Speaker 2: That's the history of that. But going back to why

1487
01:25:29,479 --> 01:25:33,040
Speaker 2: I started, so when even when he got to eighteen,

1488
01:25:33,240 --> 01:25:35,960
Speaker 2: Danny Kirshn who was ecstatic, He says, God, I thought

1489
01:25:36,000 --> 01:25:39,439
Speaker 2: I had good ears. That's amazing, Harvey. And I said, well,

1490
01:25:39,439 --> 01:25:41,960
Speaker 2: why do you send Kneel over to England? And that's

1491
01:25:42,280 --> 01:25:44,800
Speaker 2: let the boys do a bit of recording with him,

1492
01:25:45,080 --> 01:25:47,479
Speaker 2: you know, because they're very good and they had had

1493
01:25:47,479 --> 01:25:49,560
Speaker 2: a hit with I think that, yeah, they might have

1494
01:25:49,640 --> 01:25:51,960
Speaker 2: had a hit with Neanderthal Man. By then they were

1495
01:25:51,960 --> 01:25:54,880
Speaker 2: having success and Graham had had a pedigree, and you know,

1496
01:25:55,040 --> 01:25:59,479
Speaker 2: Graham just had hit. He was a joke. So anyhow,

1497
01:25:59,600 --> 01:26:01,840
Speaker 2: and also so I become a brother in law of Graham.

1498
01:26:01,880 --> 01:26:06,439
Speaker 2: We married sisters, and that was in nineteen sixty nine,

1499
01:26:06,640 --> 01:26:09,479
Speaker 2: so this was seventy one. Everything was happening at the

1500
01:26:09,520 --> 01:26:13,000
Speaker 2: same time. So Danny said, okay, I'll send him over

1501
01:26:13,080 --> 01:26:15,080
Speaker 2: to do a session. So he came over to do

1502
01:26:15,160 --> 01:26:21,479
Speaker 2: a session and he did two albums. Monster never stopped recording.

1503
01:26:21,680 --> 01:26:23,800
Speaker 2: We used to go into the studio. He used to

1504
01:26:23,840 --> 01:26:26,320
Speaker 2: sit at the piano to start with, and then he

1505
01:26:26,439 --> 01:26:30,320
Speaker 2: goes calendar girl breaking up his heart to do and

1506
01:26:30,439 --> 01:26:34,320
Speaker 2: everybody's sitting on the floor getting a concert before his starts.

1507
01:26:34,680 --> 01:26:38,200
Speaker 2: And I used to bring bagels and locks from north Manchster,

1508
01:26:39,520 --> 01:26:43,280
Speaker 2: best bagels in the world, best locks from a shock

1509
01:26:43,360 --> 01:26:46,720
Speaker 2: called Titanic, which was named after some of his grandparents

1510
01:26:46,760 --> 01:26:50,479
Speaker 2: who died in the Titanic or something. And he loved it,

1511
01:26:51,080 --> 01:26:53,920
Speaker 2: and the so and so credited me on the album.

1512
01:26:54,200 --> 01:26:58,599
Speaker 2: I was quite instrument I was responsible. Yeah, I can

1513
01:26:58,600 --> 01:27:01,320
Speaker 2: say I was responsible for Neil's Darker having a revival.

1514
01:27:01,439 --> 01:27:04,320
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, okay, Elton John put the record out,

1515
01:27:04,520 --> 01:27:06,160
Speaker 2: and Elton John did this and that and the other.

1516
01:27:06,360 --> 01:27:08,759
Speaker 2: But he wouldn't have seen Elton John unless this had happened.

1517
01:27:09,160 --> 01:27:12,200
Speaker 2: The credit was Harvey didn't even have full name Harvey

1518
01:27:12,520 --> 01:27:18,920
Speaker 2: Bagels and lucks. That's the darker story. So then then

1519
01:27:19,080 --> 01:27:22,000
Speaker 2: he said to them boys, because he'd done beautiful music

1520
01:27:22,080 --> 01:27:25,000
Speaker 2: with them, it was magnificent, he said to them, well,

1521
01:27:25,040 --> 01:27:27,240
Speaker 2: why don't you do something yourself? And I think that

1522
01:27:27,760 --> 01:27:31,240
Speaker 2: goaded them. They've now done a Ramses album which is

1523
01:27:31,680 --> 01:27:34,400
Speaker 2: pretty damn good. They've done. It's a darker album with

1524
01:27:34,800 --> 01:27:38,640
Speaker 2: tracks which are amazing, right solitaire, I mean just incredible.

1525
01:27:39,240 --> 01:27:43,840
Speaker 2: And then so they started fiddling around themselves. That's the

1526
01:27:43,920 --> 01:27:47,559
Speaker 2: beginning of the tense siemaur together. And then they did

1527
01:27:48,120 --> 01:27:51,040
Speaker 2: a song called Waterfall, which I didn't like. They thought

1528
01:27:51,080 --> 01:27:53,559
Speaker 2: it was the greatest thing since Last Bread, and they

1529
01:27:53,920 --> 01:28:00,599
Speaker 2: pedaled it everywhere themselves more or less, and Apple said

1530
01:28:00,640 --> 01:28:03,120
Speaker 2: they liked it. You know, Apple, it was the most

1531
01:28:03,200 --> 01:28:08,320
Speaker 2: disorganized organization in the world. They liked it. So you

1532
01:28:08,400 --> 01:28:12,000
Speaker 2: know what happened to that. Jonathan King comes up one

1533
01:28:12,120 --> 01:28:17,240
Speaker 2: day and they they done a track called Donner, which

1534
01:28:17,360 --> 01:28:21,439
Speaker 2: is a ripoff of O Darling by the Beatles, which

1535
01:28:21,560 --> 01:28:25,880
Speaker 2: is a ripoff of Valance Darling. I mean, the thing

1536
01:28:26,040 --> 01:28:29,400
Speaker 2: oh Darling has been used not I can't describe it

1537
01:28:29,479 --> 01:28:32,640
Speaker 2: to the Beatles. It goes back to American whoever did

1538
01:28:32,640 --> 01:28:35,280
Speaker 2: it to start with. So they did this and we

1539
01:28:35,439 --> 01:28:37,320
Speaker 2: thought it was a joke. I mean, Lol had a

1540
01:28:37,360 --> 01:28:40,280
Speaker 2: high pitched voice, and you know, they all thought Waterfall

1541
01:28:40,360 --> 01:28:45,120
Speaker 2: was great. And Jonathan King said that's a hit. Oh yeah, right, yeah,

1542
01:28:45,240 --> 01:28:47,960
Speaker 2: right right, yeah, we know it's a hit. So well,

1543
01:28:48,920 --> 01:28:50,640
Speaker 2: I'll give you I think he gave him five and

1544
01:28:51,400 --> 01:28:55,280
Speaker 2: offered some money or something for it. Was crazy. Okay, right, okay,

1545
01:28:55,400 --> 01:28:57,320
Speaker 2: we'll do it, and he I got to number two

1546
01:28:57,360 --> 01:28:59,760
Speaker 2: in the charts, and that was the beginning of the

1547
01:29:00,040 --> 01:29:03,240
Speaker 2: Nathan King thing. We signed a contract with Jonathan King

1548
01:29:03,600 --> 01:29:05,920
Speaker 2: on a very low loyalty. I think we were on

1549
01:29:06,080 --> 01:29:12,000
Speaker 2: four percent, I think. And my idea was, Okay, we'll

1550
01:29:12,120 --> 01:29:15,559
Speaker 2: sign this, but if they become successful, I'm sure he'll

1551
01:29:15,600 --> 01:29:18,920
Speaker 2: renegotiate and that will be great for us. We can

1552
01:29:19,439 --> 01:29:25,040
Speaker 2: we'll have all the benefits of his enthusiasm. We'll have

1553
01:29:25,160 --> 01:29:28,160
Speaker 2: a hit, we'll have another hit. Great, and then he

1554
01:29:28,240 --> 01:29:30,839
Speaker 2: won't be happy. He wants us to earn money. Anyhow,

1555
01:29:31,360 --> 01:29:34,360
Speaker 2: that was the wrong thing. He didn't anyway. They had

1556
01:29:34,360 --> 01:29:39,320
Speaker 2: a load of success. This is between seventy two and

1557
01:29:39,520 --> 01:29:45,040
Speaker 2: seventy four, tremendous, many of many hits. Nothing in America,

1558
01:29:45,400 --> 01:29:47,920
Speaker 2: not a smell in America. Number one in England with

1559
01:29:48,880 --> 01:29:51,720
Speaker 2: rubber bullets, The Dean and I was a hit, or

1560
01:29:51,840 --> 01:29:57,680
Speaker 2: Frant's Saint's a hit, Mandy Flymy Classic was a hit,

1561
01:29:58,400 --> 01:30:02,080
Speaker 2: and nothing in America all and the boys said, we're

1562
01:30:02,160 --> 01:30:05,479
Speaker 2: on four percent, We're on one percent. Jonathan is getting

1563
01:30:05,560 --> 01:30:09,400
Speaker 2: more himself than all of us put together. It's not right.

1564
01:30:09,560 --> 01:30:12,800
Speaker 2: So I speak to Jonathan. I said, look, this isn't right.

1565
01:30:12,840 --> 01:30:16,479
Speaker 2: Will you change it? No, the contracts at contract public

1566
01:30:16,560 --> 01:30:21,000
Speaker 2: school is you signed a contract. That's the contract. And

1567
01:30:21,120 --> 01:30:24,760
Speaker 2: the law in England stipulates you can't force somebody to

1568
01:30:25,840 --> 01:30:29,599
Speaker 2: do a management contract. And it was I managed Jimmy White,

1569
01:30:29,640 --> 01:30:32,920
Speaker 2: for instance, a snooker player. He tried to get out

1570
01:30:32,960 --> 01:30:37,000
Speaker 2: of his contract. My only all I could do is

1571
01:30:37,040 --> 01:30:39,479
Speaker 2: get damages. I can't force him to carry on with

1572
01:30:39,640 --> 01:30:43,320
Speaker 2: me and that so we did the reverse with Jonathan.

1573
01:30:43,400 --> 01:30:45,240
Speaker 2: King said, well, look they're not going to give you

1574
01:30:45,280 --> 01:30:48,840
Speaker 2: any more product. You're not going to work for less

1575
01:30:49,000 --> 01:30:52,240
Speaker 2: than you getting more than the whole group put together.

1576
01:30:52,320 --> 01:30:58,559
Speaker 2: I'm sorry. And incidentally, by the way Jonathan said, finally

1577
01:30:58,800 --> 01:31:02,000
Speaker 2: was forced into meeting and we went on the train,

1578
01:31:02,320 --> 01:31:06,400
Speaker 2: myself and my attorney to meet Jonathan King at eight

1579
01:31:06,439 --> 01:31:10,320
Speaker 2: o'clock in the Westbury Hotel. The train broke down in

1580
01:31:10,400 --> 01:31:13,200
Speaker 2: the middle of nowhere and we were stuck on this

1581
01:31:13,360 --> 01:31:18,919
Speaker 2: train from Manchester to London. We got into the Westbury

1582
01:31:19,000 --> 01:31:21,640
Speaker 2: Hotel at four thirteen and there were no telephones. There

1583
01:31:21,720 --> 01:31:24,559
Speaker 2: was no mobile phone. We were in the middle of nowhere.

1584
01:31:25,160 --> 01:31:27,240
Speaker 2: He was at the hotel. We got there at four

1585
01:31:27,240 --> 01:31:31,240
Speaker 2: point thirty were still sitting there waiting, and I couldn't

1586
01:31:31,280 --> 01:31:34,000
Speaker 2: believe that he'd waited all that time. And now we

1587
01:31:34,080 --> 01:31:38,519
Speaker 2: did the deal, and he got a very good deal.

1588
01:31:38,840 --> 01:31:41,720
Speaker 2: He got a reversion of the rights from me. First

1589
01:31:41,720 --> 01:31:44,080
Speaker 2: of all, we got permission to leave and go on

1590
01:31:44,160 --> 01:31:46,960
Speaker 2: to another company. And the other company being Phonograph, had

1591
01:31:47,000 --> 01:31:49,519
Speaker 2: done a deal with him to acquire the rights for

1592
01:31:49,640 --> 01:31:52,639
Speaker 2: those albums for that period of time, the rights reverting

1593
01:31:52,760 --> 01:31:55,040
Speaker 2: to him again, they could sell them again and again.

1594
01:31:55,479 --> 01:31:57,680
Speaker 2: And I spoke to Jonathan a few weeks ago and

1595
01:31:57,760 --> 01:32:01,439
Speaker 2: they said it was the worst decision he ever made. Now,

1596
01:32:01,520 --> 01:32:03,439
Speaker 2: the reason we left was was we had no success

1597
01:32:03,520 --> 01:32:06,479
Speaker 2: in America. The reason we had no success in America

1598
01:32:06,640 --> 01:32:09,880
Speaker 2: because we're on a crappy label. London Records was born

1599
01:32:09,960 --> 01:32:12,880
Speaker 2: on the worst label I've ever been associated with. Not

1600
01:32:13,000 --> 01:32:15,240
Speaker 2: that we went to a much better one in Mercury,

1601
01:32:15,520 --> 01:32:20,360
Speaker 2: but London was particularly bad. I mean, we went with

1602
01:32:20,600 --> 01:32:24,519
Speaker 2: Mercury because of the money, and Phonogram because of their

1603
01:32:24,560 --> 01:32:27,920
Speaker 2: pedigree Deutsche Grammarphone. For the rest of the world, that's

1604
01:32:28,000 --> 01:32:31,280
Speaker 2: a different story. But London didn't get us a sniff.

1605
01:32:32,200 --> 01:32:36,400
Speaker 2: And my son Paul said to me, well, maybe it's

1606
01:32:36,520 --> 01:32:40,240
Speaker 2: because the American radio weren't playing that kind of music

1607
01:32:40,320 --> 01:32:44,160
Speaker 2: at the time. It was very formatted American radio and

1608
01:32:44,320 --> 01:32:47,720
Speaker 2: TENCC just didn't fit into that at all. And there

1609
01:32:47,800 --> 01:32:51,160
Speaker 2: is an element of truth in that. But the talent

1610
01:32:51,320 --> 01:32:54,320
Speaker 2: was so great and the publicity was so wonderful, even

1611
01:32:54,400 --> 01:32:56,880
Speaker 2: in America, that one would have thought they'd have had

1612
01:32:57,000 --> 01:33:00,960
Speaker 2: some kind of success with all that magnificent, but they didn't.

1613
01:33:01,439 --> 01:33:03,360
Speaker 2: So we went to Phonogram.

1614
01:33:10,760 --> 01:33:14,720
Speaker 3: Okay, so you have all those albums. I bought them more.

1615
01:33:14,840 --> 01:33:15,719
Speaker 2: I was a big fan.

1616
01:33:16,479 --> 01:33:20,639
Speaker 3: The album comes on on Phonogram Mercury, I'm Not in Love.

1617
01:33:20,840 --> 01:33:22,000
Speaker 3: Tell us the story there.

1618
01:33:22,760 --> 01:33:25,080
Speaker 2: I went into the well. The great thing about inger

1619
01:33:25,160 --> 01:33:29,000
Speaker 2: manager then of TENNESSEC, was I didn't have the problem

1620
01:33:29,600 --> 01:33:33,400
Speaker 2: of finding the song. I sat back and they presented

1621
01:33:33,479 --> 01:33:35,519
Speaker 2: me with all this magnificent so and the only thing

1622
01:33:35,640 --> 01:33:37,960
Speaker 2: is to decide which song goes out first or which

1623
01:33:38,040 --> 01:33:40,640
Speaker 2: is the hit. So they pre into this album and

1624
01:33:40,960 --> 01:33:44,000
Speaker 2: because the record company, I went into the studio and

1625
01:33:44,160 --> 01:33:47,960
Speaker 2: I heard I'm Not in Love unmixed in the studio

1626
01:33:48,960 --> 01:33:53,439
Speaker 2: and talking about atmosphere. That was the Bee's Knees. That

1627
01:33:53,680 --> 01:33:56,880
Speaker 2: was That was definitely the best thing they did from

1628
01:33:56,960 --> 01:34:01,800
Speaker 2: a point of view of atmosphere, it was incredible difficulty

1629
01:34:01,880 --> 01:34:04,439
Speaker 2: being it was six minutes and there was a lot

1630
01:34:04,520 --> 01:34:08,400
Speaker 2: of discussion was resulted in them putting Minnestronia as the

1631
01:34:08,439 --> 01:34:11,880
Speaker 2: first single in England. Anyhow, I'm Not in Love just

1632
01:34:12,000 --> 01:34:14,560
Speaker 2: took over the world. It was the biggest record and

1633
01:34:15,760 --> 01:34:20,280
Speaker 2: it was even in America, even on Mercury, probably the

1634
01:34:20,400 --> 01:34:23,560
Speaker 2: worst record company there. And the other thing why it

1635
01:34:23,720 --> 01:34:27,679
Speaker 2: really didn't happen was the group, who were always very

1636
01:34:28,280 --> 01:34:32,880
Speaker 2: meticulous about the sound in concerts did not give it well,

1637
01:34:32,880 --> 01:34:34,800
Speaker 2: I shouldn't say they didn't give it off. They didn't

1638
01:34:34,840 --> 01:34:39,160
Speaker 2: pay much attention to the visuality of their show. So

1639
01:34:39,320 --> 01:34:42,040
Speaker 2: they never they would go on in genes with a

1640
01:34:42,360 --> 01:34:46,320
Speaker 2: T shirt like like Steve Jobs. You know, it wasn't

1641
01:34:46,400 --> 01:34:50,799
Speaker 2: even they weren't even interested in anything, whereas Dave Bowie,

1642
01:34:52,479 --> 01:34:56,200
Speaker 2: Mark Bowl and Freddie Mercury, you know, you just go

1643
01:34:56,320 --> 01:34:59,160
Speaker 2: on and on of all the stars that did get

1644
01:34:59,240 --> 01:35:03,080
Speaker 2: that additional visual thing. And concerning how good Kevin Low

1645
01:35:03,200 --> 01:35:08,200
Speaker 2: were on visuality and artistic work, as subsequently they proved

1646
01:35:08,439 --> 01:35:11,439
Speaker 2: with their video stuff, it just wasn't used for them.

1647
01:35:11,920 --> 01:35:14,559
Speaker 2: So when we were off they were interested in sound

1648
01:35:14,920 --> 01:35:19,280
Speaker 2: sound sound. Oh it's to me mad. I said to them, well,

1649
01:35:19,560 --> 01:35:21,880
Speaker 2: if they want the sound and by the bloody record,

1650
01:35:22,360 --> 01:35:24,120
Speaker 2: I want to go to a concert. I want to

1651
01:35:24,160 --> 01:35:26,760
Speaker 2: hear them singer sing flat. I don't care if he

1652
01:35:27,040 --> 01:35:29,599
Speaker 2: drops a few notes. I don't care if the string breaks.

1653
01:35:29,840 --> 01:35:32,560
Speaker 2: I want a live performance. I want an interaction with

1654
01:35:32,840 --> 01:35:36,080
Speaker 2: Surely that's the game for a live show. But they

1655
01:35:36,080 --> 01:35:38,240
Speaker 2: didn't see it that way. Well, they weren't prepared to

1656
01:35:38,360 --> 01:35:41,360
Speaker 2: do anything. We were off at the Eagle store while

1657
01:35:41,400 --> 01:35:44,840
Speaker 2: the record was in the charts, and of course it

1658
01:35:45,040 --> 01:35:48,599
Speaker 2: was rejected, wasn't it because of some bloody sound thing

1659
01:35:48,800 --> 01:35:51,160
Speaker 2: or something? Or I didn't want to go into it.

1660
01:35:51,400 --> 01:35:57,320
Speaker 2: I thought, well, you know, and also I think I

1661
01:35:57,400 --> 01:36:00,599
Speaker 2: think Frank Barcelona was actually looking after tency See as well.

1662
01:36:00,680 --> 01:36:04,639
Speaker 2: I think so it might have come from his packaging ideas.

1663
01:36:04,720 --> 01:36:07,360
Speaker 2: I don't know, but they were perfectly suited as well.

1664
01:36:07,800 --> 01:36:10,360
Speaker 2: I mean, when we played with the Rolling Stones, that

1665
01:36:10,600 --> 01:36:13,680
Speaker 2: was not a clever match. It was totally different. But

1666
01:36:13,800 --> 01:36:17,880
Speaker 2: the Eagles and TENCC, that just that would have been easy.

1667
01:36:18,520 --> 01:36:20,479
Speaker 2: And I think if they'd have done that, they'd have

1668
01:36:20,560 --> 01:36:23,080
Speaker 2: had a number one album, and I think we wouldn't

1669
01:36:23,080 --> 01:36:27,120
Speaker 2: be talking about them in the same way. I mean,

1670
01:36:27,240 --> 01:36:32,640
Speaker 2: they are definitely not first division. You know, they're not Beatles,

1671
01:36:33,320 --> 01:36:40,360
Speaker 2: Queen Pink, Floyd Prince, Michael Jackson. But I think they

1672
01:36:40,400 --> 01:36:42,479
Speaker 2: could have been if they'd have had a few number

1673
01:36:42,520 --> 01:36:45,320
Speaker 2: one albums in America and the American public had got

1674
01:36:45,400 --> 01:36:48,080
Speaker 2: to know the humor and the genius of them. And

1675
01:36:48,160 --> 01:36:50,280
Speaker 2: of course they didn't stay together again, I mean, I'm

1676
01:36:50,320 --> 01:36:52,439
Speaker 2: talking about I'm not in Love with only half the

1677
01:36:52,520 --> 01:36:56,439
Speaker 2: band as well in the end, because the others had

1678
01:36:56,520 --> 01:36:57,759
Speaker 2: left were leaving.

1679
01:36:58,320 --> 01:37:00,800
Speaker 3: Okay, so tell us about the being breaking up in

1680
01:37:00,880 --> 01:37:02,080
Speaker 3: the Gizmo, etc.

1681
01:37:02,920 --> 01:37:08,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, the band were always two sided affair. It

1682
01:37:08,240 --> 01:37:11,040
Speaker 2: was Graham and Eric with the establishment. They could have

1683
01:37:11,040 --> 01:37:13,799
Speaker 2: had both eyes on and Kevin Lol. Were the hippies

1684
01:37:15,840 --> 01:37:20,240
Speaker 2: they wanted. They didn't care about commerciality. That was not

1685
01:37:20,400 --> 01:37:27,160
Speaker 2: their game. Their game was doing what they want, unrepressed, unedited, unproduced.

1686
01:37:27,800 --> 01:37:30,920
Speaker 2: You know they did. Consequences was three albums, a three

1687
01:37:31,000 --> 01:37:34,280
Speaker 2: album set. You know, it's crazy. And all I said

1688
01:37:34,439 --> 01:37:36,960
Speaker 2: is give me a single, Please give me a single.

1689
01:37:37,400 --> 01:37:40,519
Speaker 2: And they played a track called Honolulu Lulu, which is

1690
01:37:40,600 --> 01:37:46,719
Speaker 2: seventeen seconds of a brilliant idea. Aloha, I'm Honolulu, Lulu

1691
01:37:46,880 --> 01:37:50,160
Speaker 2: from Hawaii. I saw you from the corner of my eye,

1692
01:37:50,720 --> 01:37:53,360
Speaker 2: which and it was beautiful music, and I said, that's it.

1693
01:37:53,840 --> 01:37:56,759
Speaker 2: We've got a single. It's going to be a smash. Anyhow,

1694
01:37:57,160 --> 01:37:58,960
Speaker 2: a few weeks later I went to the rest of

1695
01:37:59,040 --> 01:38:02,880
Speaker 2: their track, put like a fifteen minute orchestral piece on

1696
01:38:03,000 --> 01:38:05,840
Speaker 2: top of the seventeen seconds, and that was all. That's

1697
01:38:05,880 --> 01:38:09,880
Speaker 2: their commerciality. They weren't. They weren't at all interested in commerciality.

1698
01:38:10,240 --> 01:38:14,599
Speaker 2: But Kevin loll but Graham and Eric, they think, right,

1699
01:38:14,640 --> 01:38:16,040
Speaker 2: we've got to do an album. We've got to do

1700
01:38:16,080 --> 01:38:17,759
Speaker 2: it by this time. We've got to have the singles.

1701
01:38:17,760 --> 01:38:19,080
Speaker 2: We've got to do this, We've got to do that.

1702
01:38:19,520 --> 01:38:23,920
Speaker 2: And I think the obviously they've been together for four years,

1703
01:38:24,000 --> 01:38:30,559
Speaker 2: and there was there was, I don't know, not musical differences.

1704
01:38:30,600 --> 01:38:33,000
Speaker 2: There were I don't even think of his personality differences.

1705
01:38:33,080 --> 01:38:36,800
Speaker 2: I just think, you know, the instead of nowadays an

1706
01:38:36,880 --> 01:38:39,040
Speaker 2: artist would take off for a year and then go

1707
01:38:39,200 --> 01:38:41,439
Speaker 2: back and do it. In those days, it was like

1708
01:38:42,280 --> 01:38:46,680
Speaker 2: they created a brand. It had a tremendous marketing aspect worldwide,

1709
01:38:46,720 --> 01:38:51,479
Speaker 2: with the exception of America. They could everywhere they went,

1710
01:38:51,640 --> 01:38:55,040
Speaker 2: and so Graham and Eric joined together and they did

1711
01:38:55,080 --> 01:38:57,040
Speaker 2: The Things We Do for Love, which was half done

1712
01:38:57,600 --> 01:39:02,719
Speaker 2: before Kevin long left or that, and Kevin just hated

1713
01:39:02,800 --> 01:39:06,000
Speaker 2: it when they heard it. They hated it, and it

1714
01:39:06,160 --> 01:39:09,400
Speaker 2: was very much liked in America, and Graham went to

1715
01:39:09,439 --> 01:39:11,880
Speaker 2: see beat Middler, who was a favorite song at the time.

1716
01:39:12,320 --> 01:39:14,080
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, it was a very popular song,

1717
01:39:14,240 --> 01:39:17,600
Speaker 2: and it actually outsold I'm Not in Love, which I

1718
01:39:17,720 --> 01:39:21,680
Speaker 2: didn't understand, but go figure it.

1719
01:39:23,320 --> 01:39:27,400
Speaker 3: Okay, the BM split support, but you're still looking after

1720
01:39:27,760 --> 01:39:31,519
Speaker 3: Eric and Graham? Do you continue with Kevin and Lawell?

1721
01:39:31,640 --> 01:39:32,679
Speaker 3: How long does that last?

1722
01:39:32,920 --> 01:39:35,519
Speaker 2: I did a deal with Kevin Lowell, but I carried

1723
01:39:35,560 --> 01:39:38,840
Speaker 2: on publishing their material and they could go on their

1724
01:39:38,960 --> 01:39:42,599
Speaker 2: way because they wanted to be involved in new things

1725
01:39:42,640 --> 01:39:45,559
Speaker 2: for video work and everything, and I said, fine, that's fine.

1726
01:39:45,840 --> 01:39:49,080
Speaker 2: But so I retained the publishing on everything they did,

1727
01:39:49,720 --> 01:39:51,720
Speaker 2: and they had some hits on their own, which was

1728
01:39:51,840 --> 01:39:54,280
Speaker 2: very good, and it was very nice, and it was

1729
01:39:54,280 --> 01:39:57,519
Speaker 2: always a very friendly relationship. And to this day, I'm

1730
01:39:57,640 --> 01:40:02,559
Speaker 2: very friendly with loll. Lull's the lucky one really because

1731
01:40:02,600 --> 01:40:04,559
Speaker 2: he didn't sell any rights, so he didn't have any

1732
01:40:05,080 --> 01:40:08,439
Speaker 2: handy and beefs or anything. He just let the money

1733
01:40:08,520 --> 01:40:11,240
Speaker 2: keep rolling in because he had some kind of a

1734
01:40:11,760 --> 01:40:15,720
Speaker 2: case in America against the previous management where he'd been

1735
01:40:15,800 --> 01:40:18,560
Speaker 2: awarded a nice chunk of money, and I think it

1736
01:40:18,680 --> 01:40:24,080
Speaker 2: just kept him able to retain everything he had because

1737
01:40:24,080 --> 01:40:28,560
Speaker 2: everybody else was probably overspending at a tremendous rate. And

1738
01:40:28,640 --> 01:40:32,680
Speaker 2: then there's always the tax implications of earnings which you've

1739
01:40:32,760 --> 01:40:36,599
Speaker 2: not put aside for which is very typical of lots

1740
01:40:36,640 --> 01:40:41,320
Speaker 2: of people. Although everybody had accountants, the accountants can't control

1741
01:40:41,360 --> 01:40:44,080
Speaker 2: the spending. If you're going to get three ferraris, what

1742
01:40:44,200 --> 01:40:44,599
Speaker 2: do you want?

1743
01:40:47,880 --> 01:40:51,200
Speaker 3: Okay? So they do that outun deceptive Benz the two.

1744
01:40:51,400 --> 01:40:56,080
Speaker 3: Then they do dreadlock howaday ah they're to hit and

1745
01:40:56,240 --> 01:40:58,680
Speaker 3: then it peters out. What's going on there?

1746
01:40:59,479 --> 01:41:06,320
Speaker 2: Well, I think there was a lot of well Graham

1747
01:41:06,360 --> 01:41:13,920
Speaker 2: and Eric didn't get along then, particularly, I'm trying to

1748
01:41:13,960 --> 01:41:17,280
Speaker 2: think of dates now, because what date are we talking

1749
01:41:17,400 --> 01:41:21,160
Speaker 2: because nineteen the band like disbanded for a while in

1750
01:41:21,280 --> 01:41:25,760
Speaker 2: about nineteen eighty three or something like that. I think

1751
01:41:26,960 --> 01:41:29,599
Speaker 2: they tried various things that Andrew Gold came in as

1752
01:41:29,640 --> 01:41:32,320
Speaker 2: a kind of a producer and tried all sorts of things.

1753
01:41:32,640 --> 01:41:36,479
Speaker 2: We moved from Mercury to Warner Brothers for what it did.

1754
01:41:36,640 --> 01:41:38,400
Speaker 2: Didn't do any good. But we did move to a

1755
01:41:38,520 --> 01:41:44,040
Speaker 2: des label, and I think I don't know that they

1756
01:41:44,200 --> 01:41:48,720
Speaker 2: just grew apart. You know, it was just pretty much impossible,

1757
01:41:49,560 --> 01:41:53,599
Speaker 2: So I think Graham decided to do his own thing. Meanwhile,

1758
01:41:53,720 --> 01:41:57,720
Speaker 2: punk had come in. Their music was not fashionable. They

1759
01:41:57,760 --> 01:42:02,960
Speaker 2: were self in, dundant algent capitalists, and it wasn't what

1760
01:42:03,080 --> 01:42:06,960
Speaker 2: the sex pistols were about. And the sex pistols took

1761
01:42:07,000 --> 01:42:08,519
Speaker 2: over the airways, and so you.

1762
01:42:08,600 --> 01:42:13,479
Speaker 3: Know, okay, so then you manage some other singers, but

1763
01:42:13,600 --> 01:42:17,160
Speaker 3: then you manage a snooker player. Where does that come from?

1764
01:42:17,400 --> 01:42:21,120
Speaker 2: And when I got out at the same time, I decided, right,

1765
01:42:21,600 --> 01:42:23,680
Speaker 2: I want to get into sport. Now they're not going

1766
01:42:23,760 --> 01:42:25,880
Speaker 2: to play any music. I'm want to rest for a while.

1767
01:42:26,240 --> 01:42:29,880
Speaker 2: Have had a nice career the sixties, the seventies, we've

1768
01:42:29,920 --> 01:42:33,040
Speaker 2: missed out Rice Weber. But anyway, we go on to

1769
01:42:33,800 --> 01:42:37,280
Speaker 2: the seventies and the eighties, and I thought, right, can't

1770
01:42:37,360 --> 01:42:41,920
Speaker 2: any music played. I did ultimately succumb to getting a

1771
01:42:42,080 --> 01:42:46,479
Speaker 2: kind of group that fitted in with the contemporary situation,

1772
01:42:47,000 --> 01:42:51,560
Speaker 2: but before that I had Wax came together. Graham and

1773
01:42:51,640 --> 01:42:55,400
Speaker 2: Andrew Andrew was a very big favorite of mine. I

1774
01:42:55,560 --> 01:42:59,000
Speaker 2: really think he's a very talented person, could play every

1775
01:42:59,200 --> 01:43:05,880
Speaker 2: instrument and was absolutely tremendous. And Graham and Andrew, I

1776
01:43:05,960 --> 01:43:10,000
Speaker 2: think together had the best time of their respective lives

1777
01:43:10,040 --> 01:43:13,080
Speaker 2: as far as musical music was concerned. So Graham had

1778
01:43:13,120 --> 01:43:16,360
Speaker 2: gone from a situation where it was probably always battling

1779
01:43:17,040 --> 01:43:21,920
Speaker 2: whether it be on editing Kevin Lowl or whatever edit

1780
01:43:22,280 --> 01:43:27,479
Speaker 2: or falling out with musically with with Eric or whatever production.

1781
01:43:27,920 --> 01:43:32,120
Speaker 2: He was now with somebody that he was completely well,

1782
01:43:32,200 --> 01:43:34,280
Speaker 2: completely in bed with. They just they got on like

1783
01:43:34,360 --> 01:43:37,360
Speaker 2: a house on fire. They were wonderful together. We have

1784
01:43:37,520 --> 01:43:40,280
Speaker 2: some great stories of theirs. I mean, on Andrew's thirty

1785
01:43:40,400 --> 01:43:44,720
Speaker 2: third birthday, we went to Morton's in London. It was

1786
01:43:44,760 --> 01:43:48,519
Speaker 2: a restaurant and we both loved the producers. Everybody I'd

1787
01:43:48,560 --> 01:43:52,519
Speaker 2: ever been associated with, going back to twenty years, had

1788
01:43:52,800 --> 01:43:56,439
Speaker 2: always had the producers film and we knew every single

1789
01:43:56,520 --> 01:43:59,599
Speaker 2: word of it. And we're sitting down at the table, myself, Cara,

1790
01:44:00,439 --> 01:44:04,040
Speaker 2: Andrew and Graham, and mel Brooks walks in and he

1791
01:44:04,160 --> 01:44:06,839
Speaker 2: goes and sits down with a fellow called Joe Lustik,

1792
01:44:07,000 --> 01:44:10,280
Speaker 2: who I knew as an agent. So I, in my

1793
01:44:11,080 --> 01:44:15,200
Speaker 2: inimitable manner, I sent a bottle of beautiful red wine

1794
01:44:15,520 --> 01:44:20,240
Speaker 2: over to their table and saying it's from Harvey over there,

1795
01:44:20,920 --> 01:44:24,240
Speaker 2: so the way to take something over to mel Brooks.

1796
01:44:24,760 --> 01:44:27,400
Speaker 2: And mel Brooks gets hold of the wine, is drinking

1797
01:44:27,920 --> 01:44:30,639
Speaker 2: and says the way to take this pig swill away

1798
01:44:31,880 --> 01:44:35,439
Speaker 2: and get this. But later in the later in the meal,

1799
01:44:35,760 --> 01:44:39,400
Speaker 2: I feel the mass somebody massaging my shoulder and I thought,

1800
01:44:39,479 --> 01:44:42,840
Speaker 2: what's going on around? It's mel Brooks And I said

1801
01:44:42,880 --> 01:44:46,240
Speaker 2: to him, I said, would you be embarrassed if you

1802
01:44:46,479 --> 01:44:49,799
Speaker 2: repeat a line from the producers and Graham and Andrew

1803
01:44:49,800 --> 01:44:52,559
Speaker 2: will give you the next two lights? He says, how

1804
01:44:52,600 --> 01:44:58,640
Speaker 2: can I be embarrassed? An old Jew? Then he were

1805
01:44:58,680 --> 01:45:03,519
Speaker 2: at the whole room, from table to table. Yeah, Andrew,

1806
01:45:03,640 --> 01:45:05,720
Speaker 2: we all love the producers and that was great and

1807
01:45:05,960 --> 01:45:10,439
Speaker 2: it's very interesting the producers. Actually I met Gene Wilder

1808
01:45:11,120 --> 01:45:15,360
Speaker 2: and he was appearing in a play and Neil Simon play.

1809
01:45:15,760 --> 01:45:20,240
Speaker 2: You were asking about anti Semitism earlier on. We're sitting

1810
01:45:20,320 --> 01:45:23,400
Speaker 2: in this playhouse in London and it's Neil Simon play

1811
01:45:24,000 --> 01:45:28,080
Speaker 2: and we're sitting down in a woman behind. I didn't

1812
01:45:28,240 --> 01:45:32,920
Speaker 2: know that Neil Simon was Jewish, and this is what

1813
01:45:32,960 --> 01:45:35,439
Speaker 2: you're dealing with. That's part of England. That's probably a

1814
01:45:35,520 --> 01:45:38,240
Speaker 2: clrent of Wisconsin or somewhere. I don't know, but he's like,

1815
01:45:38,760 --> 01:45:41,560
Speaker 2: you know, there's England, and there's a hit places, and

1816
01:45:42,040 --> 01:45:44,360
Speaker 2: there's places from the wild that you just don't know

1817
01:45:44,479 --> 01:45:47,040
Speaker 2: what's going on. So anyhow, I said to Gene Wilder

1818
01:45:47,160 --> 01:45:49,280
Speaker 2: next morning we were staying at the hotel, I said,

1819
01:45:49,840 --> 01:45:52,680
Speaker 2: why don't you do a musical of the Producers? It's

1820
01:45:52,760 --> 01:45:55,720
Speaker 2: so obvious you've already got music in the film. And

1821
01:45:55,840 --> 01:45:58,160
Speaker 2: he said something that was really interesting. He said, well,

1822
01:45:59,040 --> 01:46:01,479
Speaker 2: he said, no, always like to keep that close to

1823
01:46:01,600 --> 01:46:05,720
Speaker 2: his chest. Interesting, isn't it. And that's at least ten

1824
01:46:05,840 --> 01:46:08,120
Speaker 2: years before it was I mean a long time before

1825
01:46:08,160 --> 01:46:12,600
Speaker 2: it was released. Interesting because Gene Wilder was amazing in

1826
01:46:12,680 --> 01:46:13,360
Speaker 2: the film.

1827
01:46:14,560 --> 01:46:19,240
Speaker 3: Absolutely with the uh oh, we're not going into the Producers.

1828
01:46:19,760 --> 01:46:23,599
Speaker 3: So you have this run, you decide to take a break,

1829
01:46:24,720 --> 01:46:27,280
Speaker 3: and then you ultimately don't come back.

1830
01:46:30,160 --> 01:46:32,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, we did come back. We did an album with

1831
01:46:33,280 --> 01:46:36,599
Speaker 2: We did an album with ten CC. They were back

1832
01:46:36,640 --> 01:46:39,280
Speaker 2: in the nineties. We got to do with a Japanese

1833
01:46:39,360 --> 01:46:43,120
Speaker 2: company called Avex, which was unbelievable. It was a I

1834
01:46:43,200 --> 01:46:46,880
Speaker 2: think Eric was very impressed with that management. I think

1835
01:46:46,920 --> 01:46:49,720
Speaker 2: they got a fortune. They sold every song I think

1836
01:46:49,800 --> 01:46:54,360
Speaker 2: on it publishing for ten thousand pounds song, so that's

1837
01:46:54,479 --> 01:46:57,040
Speaker 2: like fifty or sixty thousand. They got another few hundred

1838
01:46:57,120 --> 01:47:00,120
Speaker 2: grand for the album that were flown to Japan. They

1839
01:47:00,160 --> 01:47:02,920
Speaker 2: had like a revival. But making of the album, the

1840
01:47:03,000 --> 01:47:05,560
Speaker 2: boys hardly spoke to each other. One did it in

1841
01:47:05,720 --> 01:47:07,880
Speaker 2: their studio, the other one did it that there was

1842
01:47:07,920 --> 01:47:12,639
Speaker 2: a complete concoction, a total disaster. And I didn't really

1843
01:47:12,680 --> 01:47:15,120
Speaker 2: get out of the business because I was always publishing

1844
01:47:15,160 --> 01:47:20,160
Speaker 2: all the American music anyhow, and then I came in

1845
01:47:20,320 --> 01:47:23,719
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety two. I bought a property in Rancho Mirage

1846
01:47:24,040 --> 01:47:28,240
Speaker 2: and I became a snowbird. And from there I went

1847
01:47:28,320 --> 01:47:31,400
Speaker 2: to see the Indian Wells Tennis garden, which was used

1848
01:47:31,439 --> 01:47:38,799
Speaker 2: for three weeks in the year for tennis, very nice tournament,

1849
01:47:39,680 --> 01:47:41,800
Speaker 2: and my wife Carol said, what the hell did they

1850
01:47:41,880 --> 01:47:43,880
Speaker 2: do with this for the rest of the year. Well,

1851
01:47:43,920 --> 01:47:46,679
Speaker 2: they don't do very much, and the staff are very happy.

1852
01:47:47,040 --> 01:47:49,000
Speaker 2: The staff are working for eight weeks in the year

1853
01:47:49,080 --> 01:47:51,680
Speaker 2: and they're on Sistan the other and I said, it's

1854
01:47:51,720 --> 01:47:56,400
Speaker 2: a marvelus amphitheater. So I got hold of Raymond Moore

1855
01:47:57,000 --> 01:47:59,960
Speaker 2: and Passerell, who was his tennis player from a Maria

1856
01:48:00,680 --> 01:48:03,200
Speaker 2: Charlie Passerell, and I said, look, why don't we put

1857
01:48:03,240 --> 01:48:05,880
Speaker 2: some concerts on here. I knew they'd put one thing

1858
01:48:06,000 --> 01:48:10,000
Speaker 2: on which was pretty much a disaster, but it was

1859
01:48:10,120 --> 01:48:12,280
Speaker 2: I think they put Pacelli on and it was all wrong.

1860
01:48:12,880 --> 01:48:14,960
Speaker 2: And I then got hold of a William Morris agent

1861
01:48:15,000 --> 01:48:17,720
Speaker 2: called Peter, whose second name has eluded me on a

1862
01:48:17,920 --> 01:48:23,200
Speaker 2: Peter thank you, Peter Groslite, who's absolutely charming, lovely guy,

1863
01:48:23,800 --> 01:48:29,720
Speaker 2: great golfer as well. And I got the stadium to

1864
01:48:29,840 --> 01:48:32,000
Speaker 2: agree that I could be an agent for them to

1865
01:48:32,080 --> 01:48:35,479
Speaker 2: bring action in. So my first act was the Eagles,

1866
01:48:36,400 --> 01:48:38,000
Speaker 2: and we get the Eagles, and then we have a

1867
01:48:38,080 --> 01:48:40,960
Speaker 2: meeting there and they say we can't charge two hundred

1868
01:48:40,960 --> 01:48:43,760
Speaker 2: and fifty dollars a ticket. I said, why, you've only

1869
01:48:43,800 --> 01:48:47,080
Speaker 2: got the wealthiest community in America. Why should we charge

1870
01:48:47,120 --> 01:48:50,040
Speaker 2: one hundred when everybody else charges to fifty. Anyhow, we

1871
01:48:50,120 --> 01:48:53,360
Speaker 2: sold out three nights on the Eagles at the price.

1872
01:48:54,080 --> 01:48:56,360
Speaker 2: Then we put the Who on, Tom Patty and the

1873
01:48:56,400 --> 01:49:03,439
Speaker 2: Heartbreakers Lewis Neguel who you know that we did with

1874
01:49:03,560 --> 01:49:06,439
Speaker 2: all those concerts and all they were worried about was

1875
01:49:06,479 --> 01:49:09,439
Speaker 2: the tennis surface, and god knows what was happening. It

1876
01:49:09,640 --> 01:49:13,479
Speaker 2: wasn't really equipped as a stadium. But of course, as

1877
01:49:13,520 --> 01:49:16,560
Speaker 2: I said, without I thought, right, the answer is this,

1878
01:49:17,360 --> 01:49:22,400
Speaker 2: Barbara Streison won't work open air, right, this one won't

1879
01:49:22,439 --> 01:49:24,160
Speaker 2: do that, this one won't do the other. I said, right,

1880
01:49:24,200 --> 01:49:26,760
Speaker 2: we're going to do what Wembley Stadium does. We'll get

1881
01:49:26,800 --> 01:49:29,040
Speaker 2: a roof put on the place and then we can

1882
01:49:29,120 --> 01:49:30,760
Speaker 2: work it all year. We don't have to worry about

1883
01:49:30,920 --> 01:49:35,200
Speaker 2: her in twenty degrees. So I get an architect who

1884
01:49:35,720 --> 01:49:38,760
Speaker 2: tells it for twenty million dollars they could do a

1885
01:49:38,880 --> 01:49:42,720
Speaker 2: roof that closes, right, But there were twenty people who

1886
01:49:42,720 --> 01:49:45,479
Speaker 2: who are ten people involved? Raymond wore and ten or

1887
01:49:45,560 --> 01:49:49,080
Speaker 2: fifteen other a committee, and of course the committee rejected it.

1888
01:49:49,560 --> 01:49:51,479
Speaker 2: And now in Palm Springs they have got a ten

1889
01:49:51,560 --> 01:49:54,840
Speaker 2: thousand arena which has been put up, and they could

1890
01:49:54,880 --> 01:49:59,120
Speaker 2: have had it easily, and I saw world championship boxing

1891
01:49:59,200 --> 01:50:02,919
Speaker 2: matches everything coming from there. Anyhow, my three years expid

1892
01:50:02,960 --> 01:50:05,320
Speaker 2: as an agent. It wasn't renewed and they not had

1893
01:50:05,360 --> 01:50:08,800
Speaker 2: a concert since. So that was fifteen year. How many

1894
01:50:08,880 --> 01:50:11,639
Speaker 2: years ago, and now I'm just writing books and doing

1895
01:50:11,680 --> 01:50:12,120
Speaker 2: other things.

1896
01:50:12,160 --> 01:50:16,679
Speaker 3: Like Okay, in the book, you famously say a few things.

1897
01:50:17,360 --> 01:50:21,240
Speaker 3: You were a big spender, you lived large, you drove

1898
01:50:21,400 --> 01:50:25,439
Speaker 3: expensive cars, and you were a big gambler. So did

1899
01:50:25,520 --> 01:50:26,840
Speaker 3: you piss away all the money?

1900
01:50:35,040 --> 01:50:41,760
Speaker 2: Well, not really piss away all the money. Because of

1901
01:50:41,840 --> 01:50:46,840
Speaker 2: my accountancy training, it allowed me to have control. I

1902
01:50:47,040 --> 01:50:50,360
Speaker 2: wasn't the gambler. That a friend of mine had a

1903
01:50:50,479 --> 01:50:54,040
Speaker 2: horse and he used to back the horse. He was

1904
01:50:54,080 --> 01:50:57,320
Speaker 2: a big gambler. And the horse won seven races on

1905
01:50:57,439 --> 01:51:01,280
Speaker 2: the row and the eighth races also, And I said

1906
01:51:01,320 --> 01:51:03,240
Speaker 2: to the guy's wife, I said, well you must have

1907
01:51:03,280 --> 01:51:06,639
Speaker 2: made a fortune. No, we lost. So why he put

1908
01:51:06,720 --> 01:51:08,760
Speaker 2: every single bit of his winnings on the next and

1909
01:51:08,840 --> 01:51:11,200
Speaker 2: the next and the next. That's what you call a gambler.

1910
01:51:11,520 --> 01:51:15,400
Speaker 2: When I was a gambler, I'd have four hundred pound

1911
01:51:15,439 --> 01:51:17,840
Speaker 2: on me if I lost. That that was it. And

1912
01:51:17,960 --> 01:51:20,280
Speaker 2: the other thing about gambling. When I went with Horman

1913
01:51:20,320 --> 01:51:24,040
Speaker 2: Swimmits to Las Vegas, which is relevant to show business,

1914
01:51:24,800 --> 01:51:27,439
Speaker 2: it was in a June's hotel. They said, we're comping

1915
01:51:27,520 --> 01:51:30,519
Speaker 2: everything you've got, mister Lillisburg. All food is free. Your

1916
01:51:30,600 --> 01:51:33,479
Speaker 2: runs three anything you want. And by the way, you

1917
01:51:33,760 --> 01:51:36,280
Speaker 2: and every member of the band will have a credit

1918
01:51:36,520 --> 01:51:40,400
Speaker 2: of one hundred thousand dollars. That's in nineteen sixty six.

1919
01:51:40,920 --> 01:51:43,400
Speaker 2: I don't know what that is worth today. And I

1920
01:51:43,560 --> 01:51:47,080
Speaker 2: said no way, I said. I didn't say no way.

1921
01:51:47,160 --> 01:51:49,160
Speaker 2: I said, thank you very much. If we need it,

1922
01:51:49,240 --> 01:51:53,200
Speaker 2: we'll ask you. And that so all the people like

1923
01:51:53,360 --> 01:51:57,120
Speaker 2: Frank Sinatra or Elvis or anybody. I mean, the Colonel

1924
01:51:57,240 --> 01:52:00,839
Speaker 2: was an enormous gambler. Brian Epstein was in an enormous gambler.

1925
01:52:01,080 --> 01:52:04,560
Speaker 2: But these people were, I mean, they were permanently in

1926
01:52:05,040 --> 01:52:08,400
Speaker 2: the money. I mean, I think ultimately, probably somehow the

1927
01:52:08,520 --> 01:52:12,280
Speaker 2: Colonel got out lost it. I don't know. But no,

1928
01:52:12,680 --> 01:52:15,639
Speaker 2: I wasn't. I didn't. I didn't blow it all away.

1929
01:52:17,120 --> 01:52:22,439
Speaker 2: My son said to me two days ago, he said, well,

1930
01:52:23,160 --> 01:52:27,599
Speaker 2: maybe you got something right. So why, I said, because now,

1931
01:52:27,800 --> 01:52:30,040
Speaker 2: if you put all your money away and you had

1932
01:52:30,040 --> 01:52:33,080
Speaker 2: one hundred million in the bank, you wouldn't have been

1933
01:52:33,120 --> 01:52:35,800
Speaker 2: able to go around the world because you wouldn't be

1934
01:52:36,240 --> 01:52:39,760
Speaker 2: you wouldn't be fit enough. Or because I decided when

1935
01:52:39,800 --> 01:52:42,160
Speaker 2: I was fifty that was going to go around the world.

1936
01:52:42,520 --> 01:52:45,920
Speaker 2: I wasn't going to wait till I was eighty. So

1937
01:52:46,160 --> 01:52:48,599
Speaker 2: that was my mentality, and I think somewhere in between

1938
01:52:48,680 --> 01:52:50,560
Speaker 2: the two is right. I don't think what I was

1939
01:52:50,600 --> 01:52:56,800
Speaker 2: doing was right. It was excessive, and I can criticize

1940
01:52:56,840 --> 01:53:00,679
Speaker 2: myself for that. I got carried away. I had Joseph

1941
01:53:00,760 --> 01:53:04,439
Speaker 2: and the dream Coat, which they came to me, and

1942
01:53:04,560 --> 01:53:07,719
Speaker 2: I had that. I tried putting it with sixteen people

1943
01:53:08,160 --> 01:53:10,560
Speaker 2: who all rejected it. Now, if i'd have got the

1944
01:53:10,640 --> 01:53:14,000
Speaker 2: publishing on that, when I met t him Rice in

1945
01:53:14,080 --> 01:53:16,599
Speaker 2: two thousand and four, he told me that his earnings

1946
01:53:16,680 --> 01:53:19,360
Speaker 2: from I think it was a quarter and a half

1947
01:53:19,560 --> 01:53:23,120
Speaker 2: on Joseph, which had been rejected, was three hundred and

1948
01:53:23,200 --> 01:53:26,000
Speaker 2: ninety thousand pound. That was twenty five years after it.

1949
01:53:26,360 --> 01:53:28,960
Speaker 2: So you know, if I'd have had all that money,

1950
01:53:29,560 --> 01:53:32,519
Speaker 2: I don't think I would have had yachts, and you

1951
01:53:32,600 --> 01:53:35,160
Speaker 2: know there's no limit. You'd have era planes. You'd if

1952
01:53:35,200 --> 01:53:38,800
Speaker 2: you were acting stupidly, and you would think you're infallible,

1953
01:53:39,120 --> 01:53:42,280
Speaker 2: you'll believe in yourself. You start becoming like Robert Stigwood.

1954
01:53:42,479 --> 01:53:45,600
Speaker 2: You know, you think you everything you do is you

1955
01:53:45,680 --> 01:53:49,880
Speaker 2: know you're our for cameeron Macintosh. All these people are

1956
01:53:50,040 --> 01:53:53,559
Speaker 2: like kind of egomaniacs in a way, you know, they're

1957
01:53:53,560 --> 01:53:56,439
Speaker 2: becoming a different league. I never got into that league.

1958
01:53:57,439 --> 01:53:59,519
Speaker 2: I don't think Epstein was in that league either. I

1959
01:53:59,560 --> 01:54:02,000
Speaker 2: think he had the money, but I think he was

1960
01:54:02,160 --> 01:54:05,040
Speaker 2: just he had a lot of problems. When I met him,

1961
01:54:05,600 --> 01:54:09,200
Speaker 2: Clein had tried to get me to see him about

1962
01:54:09,600 --> 01:54:11,720
Speaker 2: getting a piece of the Beatles for him management of

1963
01:54:11,760 --> 01:54:16,200
Speaker 2: the Beatles. Would I speak to Brian and if I did,

1964
01:54:17,320 --> 01:54:20,120
Speaker 2: Alan Klein, in his imitable manner, would give me a percentage.

1965
01:54:21,520 --> 01:54:23,759
Speaker 2: So I went to see Brian Epstein in his flat

1966
01:54:23,840 --> 01:54:26,920
Speaker 2: in Belgravia. Meeting was at six point thirty at night,

1967
01:54:26,920 --> 01:54:29,840
Speaker 2: and I walked through the door and it was all white,

1968
01:54:29,920 --> 01:54:33,280
Speaker 2: white walls, everywhere was white. And I said to him,

1969
01:54:33,320 --> 01:54:36,560
Speaker 2: look are you interested in Klein looking after the Beatles?

1970
01:54:36,600 --> 01:54:38,720
Speaker 2: We want to sell it. And his face went to

1971
01:54:38,840 --> 01:54:42,640
Speaker 2: the same shade as the walls. You know, he obviously

1972
01:54:43,280 --> 01:54:46,960
Speaker 2: Clian had obviously been busier around all the everywhere else,

1973
01:54:47,080 --> 01:54:50,320
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. And it was he that

1974
01:54:50,440 --> 01:54:52,360
Speaker 2: was the end of that conversation. We just carried on

1975
01:54:52,480 --> 01:54:57,680
Speaker 2: from there. But I thought that it's funny. I thought

1976
01:54:57,720 --> 01:55:01,040
Speaker 2: the Beatles would end up with Alan Clin somehow, because

1977
01:55:01,040 --> 01:55:04,040
Speaker 2: you were talking about how do you protect yourself? Well

1978
01:55:04,400 --> 01:55:07,200
Speaker 2: against the one person from Manchester, that's one thing, but

1979
01:55:07,480 --> 01:55:12,600
Speaker 2: from people with the experience and the tentacles of Alan Klein,

1980
01:55:13,200 --> 01:55:15,640
Speaker 2: it's not easy to avoid. I mean, you got the

1981
01:55:15,680 --> 01:55:16,560
Speaker 2: biggest in the world.

1982
01:55:18,040 --> 01:55:22,760
Speaker 3: Okay, So how many of the people from the past

1983
01:55:22,960 --> 01:55:23,960
Speaker 3: you still talk to?

1984
01:55:25,440 --> 01:55:31,120
Speaker 2: Right? And I speak to Lord Crean, Peter Noon, Tony Christie,

1985
01:55:32,040 --> 01:55:35,800
Speaker 2: John Lee's from partner James Harvest. Harvey Andrews is an

1986
01:55:36,240 --> 01:55:42,000
Speaker 2: English songwriter. Unfortunately Peter gross Like passed but I was

1987
01:55:42,120 --> 01:55:48,600
Speaker 2: very close with him. Janny Patsha's partner with speak to

1988
01:55:48,680 --> 01:55:55,240
Speaker 2: him regularly. I've not spoken to Graham for a while.

1989
01:55:57,480 --> 01:55:58,680
Speaker 3: Is there any bad blood there?

1990
01:56:03,200 --> 01:56:10,960
Speaker 2: Well, it's not on my side. I mean we were brothers,

1991
01:56:11,680 --> 01:56:15,600
Speaker 2: we were brother in laws. Well stay together fifty five

1992
01:56:15,720 --> 01:56:19,840
Speaker 2: years and then unfortunately we got divorced. So I don't know.

1993
01:56:20,560 --> 01:56:26,160
Speaker 2: It wasn't to do it wasn't. It wasn't my idea.

1994
01:56:26,640 --> 01:56:31,400
Speaker 2: I mean, it wasn't. It was kind of inexplicable to me.

1995
01:56:32,120 --> 01:56:35,560
Speaker 2: But I suppose that people have their reasons. And if

1996
01:56:35,600 --> 01:56:38,160
Speaker 2: you analyze all the patterns that split up and all

1997
01:56:38,560 --> 01:56:41,600
Speaker 2: the split ups that happen and these things happen, not

1998
01:56:41,800 --> 01:56:44,840
Speaker 2: usually after fifty five years, I don't think, but you

1999
01:56:44,960 --> 01:56:50,040
Speaker 2: never know. I still think he's a very talented person,

2000
01:56:50,200 --> 01:56:53,920
Speaker 2: and I don't think he's got it right. But that's life.

2001
01:56:54,960 --> 01:56:57,440
Speaker 3: I have to ask, since we covered this earlier, was

2002
01:56:57,520 --> 01:56:58,600
Speaker 3: it split about the money?

2003
01:57:00,120 --> 01:57:03,080
Speaker 2: No? Oh, this as split with Graham?

2004
01:57:03,240 --> 01:57:04,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I don't know.

2005
01:57:05,120 --> 01:57:06,840
Speaker 2: Well, no, I know. I wish it would have been

2006
01:57:08,120 --> 01:57:12,320
Speaker 2: money is easy if he said I I just want money.

2007
01:57:13,720 --> 01:57:17,880
Speaker 2: It wasn't that it was. There was also I don't really,

2008
01:57:18,080 --> 01:57:21,880
Speaker 2: to be quite honest, my feeling is that somebody got

2009
01:57:21,960 --> 01:57:24,520
Speaker 2: at him, and I don't know who, and I don't

2010
01:57:24,560 --> 01:57:31,280
Speaker 2: really care. I think somebody tried to try to poison

2011
01:57:31,440 --> 01:57:34,920
Speaker 2: him against me, I think. But my trap record, I

2012
01:57:35,040 --> 01:57:38,720
Speaker 2: think speaks for itself. I was surviving before I met Graham,

2013
01:57:39,480 --> 01:57:44,920
Speaker 2: you know, so I think I helped. But as I say,

2014
01:57:45,320 --> 01:57:49,360
Speaker 2: managers aren't looked at very kindly. I mean, Peter Grant wasn't,

2015
01:57:51,720 --> 01:57:57,200
Speaker 2: the Colonel wasn't, Brian Epstein wasn't, Andrew Olter wasn't. I mean,

2016
01:57:57,680 --> 01:58:01,640
Speaker 2: where do you go? I mean, it's you create an act.

2017
01:58:01,720 --> 01:58:03,600
Speaker 2: They become the biggest thing in the world. And then

2018
01:58:04,640 --> 01:58:09,920
Speaker 2: I had a thing Robert Graves, the famous writer. He

2019
01:58:10,080 --> 01:58:15,640
Speaker 2: said a friend is like an ass. He waits thirty

2020
01:58:15,720 --> 01:58:21,360
Speaker 2: years to give you a good kick, and that applies

2021
01:58:21,440 --> 01:58:23,480
Speaker 2: to a lot of people in own business.

2022
01:58:25,200 --> 01:58:27,800
Speaker 3: On that note, Harvey, I think we're going to leave it.

2023
01:58:28,080 --> 01:58:31,240
Speaker 3: I want to say your book is very readable. A

2024
01:58:31,320 --> 01:58:34,360
Speaker 3: lot of these books are just you know, people have

2025
01:58:34,480 --> 01:58:37,680
Speaker 3: nothing better to do. But if you're interested in this era,

2026
01:58:37,760 --> 01:58:40,480
Speaker 3: if you're interested in what Harvey talked about, there are

2027
01:58:40,520 --> 01:58:44,640
Speaker 3: many more facts and stories in the book, and in

2028
01:58:44,760 --> 01:58:47,280
Speaker 3: a couple hours you'll finish. It's a great read, which

2029
01:58:47,320 --> 01:58:50,400
Speaker 3: is why I wanted to talk to you. In any event, Harvey,

2030
01:58:50,480 --> 01:58:52,320
Speaker 3: thanks so much for taking the time to talk.

2031
01:58:52,200 --> 01:58:54,680
Speaker 2: To my audiences. But a great pleasure.

2032
01:58:55,200 --> 01:58:58,040
Speaker 3: Until next time. This is Bob left sets

2033
01:59:19,880 --> 01:59:20,000
Speaker 2: Sh