Speaker 1: Thanks for making it through our true crime playlist. We're
Speaker 1: rounding this one out with a good old fashioned train
Speaker 1: robbery for which we had across the pond to visit
Speaker 1: our friends in the UK. Back in nineteen sixty three,
Speaker 1: one of the all time great holdups was carried out
Speaker 1: by a huge gang of men who relieved a British
Speaker 1: mail train of a massive amount of money, and they
Speaker 1: did it without guns. Most of the robbers were eventually caught,
Speaker 1: but most of the money has never been found. All
Speaker 1: aboard for the last episode in our playlist on the
Speaker 1: Great train robbery.
Speaker 2: Welcome to you Stuff you should know from HowStuffWorks dot com.
Speaker 3: Chew, chew, and welcome to the podcast. Um, Josh Clark,
Speaker 3: There's Charles W. Chuck Bright, there's Jerry uh and you
Speaker 3: put all of us together with a couple of microphones
Speaker 3: at crummy ikea.
Speaker 4: Lamb and you well and a head full of nose juice.
Speaker 4: You get stuff you should know. That's right, stuff you
Speaker 4: should nose juice. Oh grow, how's it going buddy? Besides
Speaker 4: the obvious under the weather yess.
Speaker 3: Of you, I predict this is the last one great.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna be back to good as new by the
Speaker 3: next time we record.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're going to Vancouver and you'll get some of
Speaker 4: that good Canadian air air in your body and the
Speaker 4: pine air. It's healing. Yeah, properties, I'll.
Speaker 3: Get pine and flannel and ocean like in my in
Speaker 3: my face.
Speaker 4: And moose yeah, moose hair. Yeah, that's tough.
Speaker 3: If you walk, wadd it all into a ball and
Speaker 3: sniff it.
Speaker 4: Uh huh. It takes care of everything. That's right. What
Speaker 4: in the world are we talking about? I don't know.
Speaker 3: Uh, we're talking about trains, that's right. We're talking about
Speaker 3: a specific train, Chuck. We're talking about a specific train
Speaker 3: at a specific moment in place and time. Yes, it
Speaker 3: all came together to become known as the Great Train Robbery.
Speaker 4: It's right.
Speaker 3: Did you know did you commission this article?
Speaker 4: I did not.
Speaker 3: Did you know about it already?
Speaker 4: Some? Or yeah? I mean a little bit, but not
Speaker 4: as like obviously as much. After I researched and I
Speaker 4: watched a couple of documentaries and was looking for a
Speaker 4: great awesome movie. But I don't think there really is
Speaker 4: a great awesome movie about.
Speaker 3: This yet, which is surprising.
Speaker 4: I think they did, like BBC did one, and I
Speaker 4: think Sean Connery did one that was loosely I think
Speaker 4: other things were loosely based.
Speaker 3: But like the Taking of Pelham one, two three.
Speaker 4: Yes, exactly, that's a good movie. Did you the original?
Speaker 4: Of course? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Did you watch The Tale of Two Thieves? Is that
Speaker 3: one of the documentaries you watched?
Speaker 4: No, I don't think that's out to the public yet
Speaker 4: unless I just haven't seen it. Okay, I think it's
Speaker 4: new this year.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it seems like a twenty fourteen.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I want to see it. But there are no
Speaker 4: shortage of YouTube BBC docs because they love it. And
Speaker 4: I learned a lot of new words watching them. Yeah,
Speaker 4: like what oh like instead of crooked, someone has bent,
Speaker 4: like a bent solicitor. I figured out was a crooked solicitor.
Speaker 4: And a cosh is a like a like a billy
Speaker 4: club and you can cosh somebody. Oh wow, like the
Speaker 4: train conductor was coshed.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah. There were just a bunch of cool terms that
Speaker 4: I had to kind of figure out what they meant.
Speaker 4: An American gotcha in my English? Yeah, so I had.
Speaker 3: I heard the words great train and robbery together, but
Speaker 3: I didn't know anything about it.
Speaker 4: I think there was another one, an older great train
Speaker 4: robbery from the eighteen hundreds.
Speaker 3: There's one in eighteen fifty five, Yeah, where a train
Speaker 3: traveling from London to Paris or vice versa had a
Speaker 3: bunch of gold bullion on it and it got hit.
Speaker 3: That was legendary. But apparently this was the biggest train
Speaker 3: heist since then, Yeah, more than one hundred years later.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, it was a big deal and it was
Speaker 4: sort of Jesse James style. That's why it became one
Speaker 4: of the crimes of the century in England for sure.
Speaker 4: I mean it was huge in the press, and these
Speaker 4: guys that knocked off this train became these kind of
Speaker 4: weird working class heroes.
Speaker 3: Well, one of them became the symbol for the anti establishment,
Speaker 3: which one oh what was his name, the one who
Speaker 3: made off for years and years?
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, see bigs. Yeah, he he was on the
Speaker 4: lamb for like thirty years, so he was super famous.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they knew where he was and they couldn't
Speaker 3: get to him, which we'll talk about, but he, you know,
Speaker 3: became like the this folk hero of the anti establishment,
Speaker 3: saying vocals on lots of like punk records.
Speaker 4: Oh really like that? Yeah, yeah, I saw in both documentaries.
Speaker 4: I had a bunch of interviews, like on the street
Speaker 4: interviews from the time, like with regular upstanding citizens, like
Speaker 4: who side are you on? And a lot of them
Speaker 4: were like, well, I feel ashamed to admit this, but
Speaker 4: I kind of think these guys really took it to
Speaker 4: the cops on this one. Yeah, and they thought they
Speaker 4: were ingenious and even though the plan, as we'll get
Speaker 4: to really was pretty uncomplicated. Yeah, it wasn't nearly as
Speaker 4: clever as it was made out to be.
Speaker 3: Right, Well, let's talk about the plan. So there was
Speaker 3: this idea who had the idea, the original idea.
Speaker 4: I believe his last name was Fields. He was the
Speaker 4: guy who originally had the idea and approached several people
Speaker 4: criminals for partnership, and they all turned him down except
Speaker 4: for this a safecracker by the name of Goodye.
Speaker 3: Okay, so Goody had a friend who was His name
Speaker 3: was Bruce Reynolds, and I guess he originally funded the
Speaker 3: whole thing.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, they were in a gang called the Bowler
Speaker 4: Hat Gang in London. I know, right, I don't think
Speaker 4: we've said this.
Speaker 3: We've made reference to like the wild West and Trained
Speaker 3: Roberts and everything. This is the nineteen sixties. Yeah, like
Speaker 3: the early nineteen sixties that this is going on.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And the Bowler Hat Gang was they dressed in
Speaker 4: bowler hats and suits and they had done some crimes
Speaker 4: and they were mainly career criminals and they actually even
Speaker 4: they had the press's attention, and they actually tried to
Speaker 4: rob a train at first, but it didn't work so
Speaker 4: well and they got away, and but that they had
Speaker 4: sort of a not a trial run, but they legitimately
Speaker 4: tried to knock off another train.
Speaker 3: So is that when they realized that they needed to
Speaker 3: expand their rank and file.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they realized that we don't know trains and we
Speaker 4: don't know how to stop them, so we need to
Speaker 4: get some train guys. Right.
Speaker 3: So the Bowler Coast Gang, who is I guess led
Speaker 3: by Bruce Reynolds, right, Yeah, Bowler Hat the Bowler Hat,
Speaker 3: yeah gang they got with the South Coast Gang.
Speaker 4: I think, Yeah, the South Coast Raiders.
Speaker 3: So they and this is I mean, those are some
Speaker 3: great gang names.
Speaker 4: By the way, totally great.
Speaker 3: But the Bowler Hat Gang and the South Coast Raiders,
Speaker 3: who were led by a dude named Buster Edwards, right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and Tom Wisby he was one of the main
Speaker 4: guy or Whisney Sorry.
Speaker 3: So those guys all got together and they said, we
Speaker 3: got this great idea. We need your people to get
Speaker 3: to come help us. We're gonna rob a train. And
Speaker 3: they're not just any train. There was one specific train
Speaker 3: that this gang targeted and for good reason. It was
Speaker 3: called the Up Special and the Up Special had been
Speaker 3: running since the eighteen thirties between Glasgow, Scotland and London, right, Yeah,
Speaker 3: and it had run every night and it was basically
Speaker 3: like a mail sorting facility on wheels.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like it was pretty clever.
Speaker 3: They thought, well, we'll take all the mail from Glasgow
Speaker 3: that's going to London and we'll sort it along the way.
Speaker 3: So there was twelve cars in the Glasgow Special or
Speaker 3: the Up Special and a diesel engine, so it's a
Speaker 3: pretty simple train.
Speaker 4: Yeah. And it had run for years and years, right
Speaker 4: without incident, for.
Speaker 3: Like one hundred and fifty one hundred, almost one hundred
Speaker 3: and fifty years.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it wasn't loaded with guards and cops. I mean,
Speaker 4: it was a bunch of postmen basically.
Speaker 3: Which is a really it's really weird then that the
Speaker 3: banks would trust their money that we're moving from Glasgow
Speaker 3: to London, Yeah, to this postal train.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Different that had like no security, no armed guards, no
Speaker 3: alarms until the early sixties on the train cars themselves.
Speaker 3: But yet every night the banks would empty their their
Speaker 3: accounts into this train and say, good luck get into London.
Speaker 4: Like here's a bunch of huge sacks of money. We're
Speaker 4: gonna put it on the train and you're gonna sort
Speaker 4: it along the way.
Speaker 3: Exactly.
Speaker 4: They had an inside man who And this is one
Speaker 4: of those weird stuff you should know things, you know,
Speaker 4: how there's all these weird correlations in the news. I
Speaker 4: picked out this article two days ago, and two days
Speaker 4: ago what was announced Who the identity of the inside
Speaker 4: man was.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the last great mystery of this thing from the sixties. Yeah,
Speaker 3: was just unwrapd like two days ago.
Speaker 4: And I didn't even know it at the time. I
Speaker 4: found out afterward. But the code name was Ulsterman, and
Speaker 4: it was always believed to be someone on the inside
Speaker 4: of the of the train and post industry to give
Speaker 4: him information like you know, the train is super loaded
Speaker 4: on this particular night because of a bank holiday. And
Speaker 4: he was named by Gordon Goody as Patrick McKenna. Yeah.
Speaker 3: In that documentary A tale of two thieves. They hand
Speaker 3: a picture of Patrick McKennon to Goody and says that
Speaker 3: ulsterman and apparently he like kind of like gets visibly
Speaker 3: uncomfortable because he's kept this guy's identity secret. He was
Speaker 3: the last person alive for fifty years to know who
Speaker 3: this person was. There were two other people who knew.
Speaker 3: They both died before Goody. Patrick McKenna died years back,
Speaker 3: and there was just this one man who swore he
Speaker 3: would take the secret cheers grave and he named them
Speaker 3: he had angered him.
Speaker 4: These guys were really good keeping secrets over the years.
Speaker 3: They wore bowler hats for goodness.
Speaker 4: So McKinnon's family was super surprised to hear all this.
Speaker 4: Police never suspected him, and they basically think that this
Speaker 4: guy felt bad afterward and never even spent the money
Speaker 4: and gave it to the Catholic Church like slowly over
Speaker 4: the years. Oh yeah his cut, huh is what the
Speaker 4: family is saying. But it sounds like an ulsterman kind
Speaker 4: of thing to do. Yeah, you know, Lstie right, he's
Speaker 4: a good guy.
Speaker 3: Well before he had his change of heart, he was
Speaker 3: the inside man that helped the gang figure this out.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he actually recommended they change the date to get
Speaker 4: a bigger take. Yeah, and it was and it worked.
Speaker 3: Can you explain this to me? So a bank holiday
Speaker 3: and it's the same thing here in the US. It's
Speaker 3: like a day the banks are closed. Yea, they have
Speaker 3: official bank holidays. There's a banking Act in the UK
Speaker 3: from the nineteenth century that designated certain days as bank holidays.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: What I don't understand is why is there's so much
Speaker 3: more money the day after a bank holiday. It's like
Speaker 3: everybody waited to do their banking business that they would
Speaker 3: have done on Monday on Tuesday. Like there's so many
Speaker 3: more people or so many more transactions that didn't get
Speaker 3: to be done on that Monday that were carried out
Speaker 3: on the Tuesday. That that's why there's so much more money.
Speaker 4: I don't know. Maybe it's that the because of the holiday,
Speaker 4: they didn't do their deposits and like make the money
Speaker 4: leave the bank like they normally would, so it was compounded.
Speaker 4: I guess. So there was like double the amount of
Speaker 4: money as usual because they didn't do their drop on
Speaker 4: the holiday or something.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but they didn't conduct any business on the holiday,
Speaker 3: so there wouldn't have been more money to accumulate than usually.
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4: Well, if it came after a weekend, though, maybe it
Speaker 4: was like all of that weekend's deposits, yeah, had gathered up. Okay,
Speaker 4: I don't know. That's a good question. Okay.
Speaker 3: The point is, is this a lot more money than usual?
Speaker 3: A lot more usually? This? This train car, the Up Special,
Speaker 3: carried about three hundred thousand pounds between Glasgow and London
Speaker 3: each each night.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: On this particular night, the night of August eighth, nineteen
Speaker 3: sixty three, which was Thursday, early wee hours of a Thursday,
Speaker 3: it was carrying something like two point six million pounds,
Speaker 3: which today in dollars would be worth about fifty million.
Speaker 4: I think it's I looked that up and it was
Speaker 4: like double that one hundred million. Well, yeah, because you're
Speaker 4: going from nineteen sixty three to twenty thirteen and from
Speaker 4: pounds to dollars. Yeah, I might be off, but I
Speaker 4: got sixty nine million pounds today or one hundred and
Speaker 4: eleven million dollars US, let's go with that. That's way
Speaker 4: better either way. Two point six million pounds was a
Speaker 4: ton of money for a highspec then. Yeah, it was
Speaker 4: like really really a lot of dough. Yeah, even splitting
Speaker 4: it among fifteen guys.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they didn't even necessarily split it evenly. There
Speaker 3: were the core game who were carrying this thing out
Speaker 3: and they all got even split. But there are also accomplices.
Speaker 3: In addition to Ulsterman, there was mister one, Mister two,
Speaker 3: and mister three.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and those are their names. So because they were
Speaker 4: never brought to justice, there were three that just got
Speaker 4: away with it even though they knew who they were. Supposedly,
Speaker 4: they didn't have evidence to go pick them up. So
Speaker 4: like the identities of the three guys that got away,
Speaker 4: they think they knew who they were the whole time.
Speaker 3: Really, I mean, one of them's named John Wheder. He
Speaker 3: got away.
Speaker 4: I'm not sure I was he one of the one,
Speaker 4: two or three he was?
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was the one who got the safe house
Speaker 3: for the gang.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well he worked with Fields to get the safe house. Well,
Speaker 4: let's let's back up here. Okay, we're so excited we're
Speaker 4: getting out of it. So he mentioned that they recruited
Speaker 4: another gang that knew how to work with trains, knew
Speaker 4: how to stop trains, and what they did was they
Speaker 4: brought this guy on board who had this elderly man
Speaker 4: who was a train driver. His name was Peter, and
Speaker 4: Peter's job once they stopped the train was to get
Speaker 4: it to where the drop point the exchange point was
Speaker 4: in case, you know, because the train stops at the
Speaker 4: red light, right, which they very awkwardly wired the red
Speaker 4: light to turn on and they just covered the green
Speaker 4: light with some gloves, but it worked. They stopped the
Speaker 4: train and still needed to get it down the track
Speaker 4: to the exchange point. And this old man gets on
Speaker 4: board and he's like, I don't know how to undo
Speaker 4: this new handbrake, right, So he was useless.
Speaker 3: And so the guy Bigs who became this criminal legend
Speaker 3: for evading the law for so many years, apparently his
Speaker 3: only job was to find somebody who could drive the train.
Speaker 4: And he failed at that and he screwed it up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so the guy who was supposed to drive the
Speaker 3: train got thrown off the train and they got the
Speaker 3: original train engineer, the one whose job it was to
Speaker 3: actually drive the train under normal circumstances, and made him
Speaker 3: drive another mile and a half to this bridge.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that was Jack Mills, And this is a
Speaker 4: very important detail. He was, like you said, the conductor
Speaker 4: and two guys jumped on the train at the very
Speaker 4: front there and uh coshed him, which is smacked him
Speaker 4: on the head a bunch with this billy club. I
Speaker 4: thought it was a crowbar wells an ironcosh, which is
Speaker 4: English for crowbar, I guess. And this was a big
Speaker 4: point because for a lot of reasons. One in that
Speaker 4: it was why the justice ended up coming down so
Speaker 4: harshly on them, because they were apparently way more violent
Speaker 4: than they needed to be with this guy. Yeah, and
Speaker 4: the public perception of these guys's working class heroes doesn't
Speaker 4: jibe with the violence because they weren't. You know, the
Speaker 4: English still aren't really into violence as a whole.
Speaker 3: No, especially if you're the bowler hat GK.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like you dressed nicely and you conducted your business,
Speaker 4: your criminal business like gentlemen, and you didn't need to
Speaker 4: beat this old guy up. He was elderly, nearing retirement,
Speaker 4: and his family says the robbers still say today that like,
Speaker 4: he wasn't beaten up nearly as bad as they say,
Speaker 4: and the family's like, no, he never fully recovered, yeah,
Speaker 4: and died of cancer.
Speaker 3: But about seven years later I think he died of leukemia.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but they say he had headaches for the rest
Speaker 4: of his life and he was just not the same man. Yeah.
Speaker 4: You can't do that to somebody. You can't do that
Speaker 4: to someone.
Speaker 3: And and like you said, that changed absolutely everything. Goodie,
Speaker 3: the the guy who's really the brains behind this whole operation,
Speaker 3: he wrote a book a few years back before he died,
Speaker 3: and he named He said it was either Buster Edwards
Speaker 3: or a guy named Jame Hussey, who is the one
Speaker 3: who coched the poor conductor.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and supposedly Hussy who was brought in as a
Speaker 4: heavy as some muscle. Supposedly at his deathbed he said
Speaker 4: that it was him who coshed the guy. Yeah. And
Speaker 4: but there are other people that say, including Jack Mills's
Speaker 4: son who said, no, my father told me who it
Speaker 4: was and it wasn't him. This guy is just doing
Speaker 4: that that robber thing where you still cover for your people.
Speaker 4: So like on his deathbed, he was still trying to
Speaker 4: cover for the real guy. And I don't know if
Speaker 4: we'll ever know for real if it was him or
Speaker 4: the other dude.
Speaker 3: Wow, lying on your deathbed, Yeah, that's not okay.
Speaker 4: No, that never happens. Yeah, that's where you're supposed to
Speaker 4: be the most truth.
Speaker 3: Sure, Like yeah, I mean they take deathbak confessions like
Speaker 3: as like completely legitimate in courts.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's where you're supposed to look at your wife
Speaker 4: and say, I never really loved you.
Speaker 3: Wow, that's terrible, Chuck.
Speaker 4: Could you imagine? I think that was in a movie.
Speaker 4: Once you thought it was gonna be some tender moment
Speaker 4: and he was like, I never really loved you.
Speaker 3: I think I know what you're talking about. The War
Speaker 3: of the Roses, where like they're both laying there dying
Speaker 3: and Michael Douglas goes to like put his arm around.
Speaker 3: I think it's a great movie. No, I don't think
Speaker 3: anybody's done that.
Speaker 4: Oh okay. So Roger Cordrey is the guy's name who
Speaker 4: came up with the idea to fix these train signals.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 4: And he was an associate of Buster Edwards. And if
Speaker 4: you had ever seen a movie Buster with Phil.
Speaker 3: Collins, Oh, is that who it's about.
Speaker 4: That's what it's about. Sort of like working class criminal
Speaker 4: like criminals back then were kind of revered in certain
Speaker 4: circles in England. It's weird.
Speaker 3: Two hearts beating it.
Speaker 4: Just one was that from that movie. Okay, great song.
Speaker 4: All right, So after this break we are gonna talk
Speaker 4: a little bit more about how it went down and
Speaker 4: what happened right after.
Speaker 3: So chuck, Yeah, we've got the Bowler Hat Gang and
Speaker 3: the South Coast Raiders. Yeah, coming together for one huge
Speaker 3: heights that's worth about one hundred million dollars in today's money, yeah,
Speaker 3: or or half that. They're hitting the up Special. Just
Speaker 3: this crotchety old twelve car train moving along through the
Speaker 3: night from Scotland to London, right, Yeah, And so the
Speaker 3: gang messes with the lights.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they put a.
Speaker 3: Glove around the green light and managed to turn on
Speaker 3: the red light. So the train comes to the stop,
Speaker 3: they all board the train. Yeah, they hit the conductor
Speaker 3: over the head, huge mistake.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: They bring on the guy who's supposed to drive the train,
Speaker 3: find out he can't drive the train, throw him off,
Speaker 3: stand the conductor back up, probably give him a handkerchief
Speaker 3: for his head, Yeah, and say we need you to
Speaker 3: drive this another mile and a half to the drop point,
Speaker 3: which is called a Britigo bridge.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was it like a bridge overpass.
Speaker 3: Uh huh. And the guy does that and they start
Speaker 3: offloading the loot.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they got one hundred and twenty of one hundred
Speaker 4: and twenty eight sacks of cash money onto They had
Speaker 4: this big lorry and a couple of land rovers. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Could this be any more stylish?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: They had land rovers. There's getaway cars.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's pretty cool. You see why people bought into
Speaker 4: all this stuff and thought it was cool, because I
Speaker 4: think it's cool right now. Yeah. And so what they
Speaker 4: did they had pre arranged a hideout. And this was
Speaker 4: Fields's job as well, was he bought this farm and.
Speaker 3: Farmhouse leathers slaid farm right.
Speaker 4: Yeah too, And it was sort of ingenius, but ended
Speaker 4: up screwing them in the end because the idea was
Speaker 4: within thirty minutes of this robbery they have effectively disappeared
Speaker 4: off the face of the earth.
Speaker 3: Well, they stopped the train and got it to the
Speaker 3: bridge and offloaded more than a ton of money.
Speaker 4: Yeah, two tons, I think two and a half.
Speaker 3: Tons of money, yeah, in fifteen minutes.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and they were back in their hideout in another
Speaker 4: fifteen So by the time this thing was reported, they
Speaker 4: were gone and in this farmhouse like with the windows
Speaker 4: shut and the shades drawn. Okay, but that also kind
Speaker 4: of screwed them because before they left the train, they said,
Speaker 4: all right, no one moves for thirty minutes. And so
Speaker 4: the cops hear this and they went, oh, well, that
Speaker 4: they're probably within a thirty mile radius then, and so
Speaker 4: they put this out on the news. We know that
Speaker 4: they're within a thirty mile radius, and we're going to
Speaker 4: start canvassing the area. They get word of this, they're
Speaker 4: within twenty eight miles and they go, well, crap, they're
Speaker 4: going to find us. And they also said it was
Speaker 4: sort of a city boy's move to think you can
Speaker 4: hide out in the country like that. And this one
Speaker 4: guy in the documentary was like, na, out in the country,
Speaker 4: you get noticed, right if you're fifteen guys in a farmhouse.
Speaker 3: That was their undoing. A neighbors said, there's a lot
Speaker 3: more people at this old, rambling old farm, and they're
Speaker 3: all wearing bowler hats for some reason, or at least
Speaker 3: half of them are. There's something fishy going on. So
Speaker 3: when the word got out that this train had been hit,
Speaker 3: this guy came forward and said, you guys should go
Speaker 3: check this farm out. Well, the guys weren't only at
Speaker 3: this farm for the half hour after the heist. They'd
Speaker 3: been there for like eight days, waiting for the day
Speaker 3: to come, getting ready, eating things that required catchup, playing Monopoly.
Speaker 4: Played a lot of Monopoly with their real money, Yes
Speaker 4: they did. They thought that was just a fun thing
Speaker 4: to do, hilarious.
Speaker 3: And they did go to the trouble of wiping down
Speaker 3: a lot of the stuff, but they left a lot
Speaker 3: of stuff behind, including the Monopoly game, including the ketchup bottle,
Speaker 3: and a lot of other stuff that had prints on it.
Speaker 4: Well, yes, because Fields was supposed to get a guy
Speaker 4: to go torch the place.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what I thought. I was like, why wouldn't
Speaker 3: you just burn the place down?
Speaker 4: That was the plan, And apparently the guy never did it,
Speaker 4: and they ended up getting out of there a few
Speaker 4: days early. They left five days into it because they
Speaker 4: obviously heard the news that they were canvassing the area.
Speaker 4: So they left quicker than they wanted to, and, like
Speaker 4: you said, left a lot of stuff behind because they
Speaker 4: thought it was gonna be torched.
Speaker 3: They're playing was to lay low there for a few days.
Speaker 4: Yeah, to keep laying low, huh. But when they found
Speaker 4: out they were basically making their way to them little
Speaker 4: by little, right, they got the heck out of Dodge Piker.
Speaker 3: Well that probably kept them from getting caught sooner. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but in so the public is being treated to this
Speaker 3: incredibly daring train heist. These people got away without a
Speaker 3: trace for at least the first week. Only within a week,
Speaker 3: this leather Slade Farms has been identified as a place
Speaker 3: where these guys were hiding out. Yeah, they found the
Speaker 3: trucks and they got at least one person within eight
Speaker 3: days of the of the heist. Yeah, and all of
Speaker 3: a sudden people start falling. There's fifteen people and on
Speaker 3: the case is called the Flying Squad, who are like
Speaker 3: the best of the best that Scotland Yard has to
Speaker 3: offer to combat these some of the best of the
Speaker 3: best criminals that that great Britain has had to offer
Speaker 3: at the time.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Chief Superintendent Detective Tommy Butler was the head of
Speaker 4: the Flying Squad. And like you said, this was so
Speaker 4: sensational because it was the top robbers and the top
Speaker 4: cop it was I guess it's sort of like the
Speaker 4: elliot ness of the day going after al Capone. It
Speaker 4: was just a huge story. And like you said, they
Speaker 4: started getting nicked one by one and it came out
Speaker 4: later that there was an informant by the name of
Speaker 4: Mickey Keo. Supposedly, Scotland Yard said, this guy, Mickey Kejo
Speaker 4: was telling us all about it because it was well
Speaker 4: known within the criminal underground, like what was going on,
Speaker 4: and started naming names. Although the robbers to this day
Speaker 4: still say, nah, it wasn't Mickey Kejo. We know that guy.
Speaker 4: He didn't even know us that well. He wasn't giving
Speaker 4: up names. Yeah, but I don't know, Scotland Yard says
Speaker 4: he was, so I don't see why they'd make that up.
Speaker 3: I could see them making it up to protect somebody else,
Speaker 3: especially if they didn't like Mickey Kejo in the way
Speaker 3: he looked.
Speaker 4: That's true, but they You're right. They started to go
Speaker 4: down one by one. There was a pretty short list
Speaker 4: of people who they thought it was. It wasn't like
Speaker 4: some great mystery.
Speaker 3: Plus, once they started peeling away one and catching one
Speaker 3: here or there, others started falling others did did Did
Speaker 3: anyone who was caught name names? Did you get that impression?
Speaker 4: No? They were Most of them were pretty tight lipped.
Speaker 4: In fact, one guy, Charlie Wilson, he was the treasurer
Speaker 4: of the gang. They called him the silent man because
Speaker 4: he literally said nothing and he just didn't speak at
Speaker 4: all during the trial.
Speaker 3: Right, he went on to become a US congressman who
Speaker 3: waged a proxy war against Russia in Afghanistan of the seventies.
Speaker 4: I don't think so. I think that's a different, different Charlie.
Speaker 3: Okay, Tom Hanks, I yet right, So consider this from
Speaker 3: the public's point of view. There's a staring robbery, right
Speaker 3: words getting out. Within a week, you got your first
Speaker 3: guy caught, but there's still tons more people on lamb,
Speaker 3: which gave the press tons of fodder. They had so
Speaker 3: much to write about. There was a capture of one
Speaker 3: of the guys that involved roof tops, like the guy
Speaker 3: was running and jumping from roof to roof with the
Speaker 3: police and chase, you know. And finally by August, all
Speaker 3: these guys are rounded up. Twelve of the fifteen I
Speaker 3: think were rounded up.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 3: And they started to stand trial in January. They were caught.
Speaker 3: They're being quiet. The public is just totally in awe.
Speaker 3: And finally this trial starts and right out of the gate,
Speaker 3: the judge found out that Biggs had a criminal passed
Speaker 3: so he shouldn't be tried with the rest of them
Speaker 3: because it could taint the jury against all these other
Speaker 3: guys unfairly. So Biggs got spun off to his own trial,
Speaker 3: and these guys stood trial. The other four or the
Speaker 3: other elevens, no, ten of them stood trial. One of
Speaker 3: them managed to have a lawyer. He was there because
Speaker 3: his prints were on the no, the Monopoly game.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there were prints on Ketchup and Monopoly and pots
Speaker 4: and pans, and some of the guys were gloves the
Speaker 4: entire time, and they smart, smart ones.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but Biggs was the one. Remember, Biggs's one job
Speaker 3: was to bring the train engineer and he screwed that up. Yeah,
Speaker 3: his prints were on the Ketchup bottle, so he screwed
Speaker 3: that up too. But there was another guy whose prints
Speaker 3: run the Monopoly game, and his lawyers managed to show
Speaker 3: that those could have gotten there long before the crime, yeah,
Speaker 3: and that it didn't necessarily mean he had anything to
Speaker 3: do with it. He got set. He was acquitted during
Speaker 3: this trial. Yeah, he was the only lucky one. Everybody
Speaker 3: else had the book thrown at them.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean there was a lot of them were
Speaker 4: saying that they cooked up a bunch of evidence because
Speaker 4: they knew it was them, but they just didn't have
Speaker 4: the evidence. So the big lorry truck they had painted
Speaker 4: hastily painted yellow, and the Goody, one of the main
Speaker 4: you know, two guys, was supposedly some of his evidence
Speaker 4: was that they found yellow paint on a shoe and
Speaker 4: he was like, I didn't paint in those shoes. And
Speaker 4: it was funny because years later he's like, oh, I
Speaker 4: did it, and yeah, I painted that truck yellow, but
Speaker 4: I wouldn't wearing those shoes they planted. That's evidence, isn't
Speaker 4: that right? Yeah? And apparently there was false confessions. There
Speaker 4: was another great British word for that. I can't remember
Speaker 4: what they called it, but chaverdaba, chaverdving. They false confessions
Speaker 4: were big at the time in England, and it was
Speaker 4: a lot of reports from these robbers that they were
Speaker 4: using false confessions and planning evidence. And again even though
Speaker 4: they did it, they were like, yeah, but if you
Speaker 4: don't have evidence, yeah, you can't convict this all right,
Speaker 4: So I don't think we'll ever know if they cooked
Speaker 4: up some of this evidence or not.
Speaker 3: Well, there was one guy named Bowl William Bowle.
Speaker 4: Oh, poor guy.
Speaker 3: He apparently had nothing to do with it. Well, he
Speaker 3: received money in payment from a debt. Yeah, I think
Speaker 3: that Goody owed him.
Speaker 4: Now that it was Bigs, Oh, Big BIG's again. He
Speaker 4: was a friend of Biggs and when he got out,
Speaker 4: helped him kind of lay low. But he had nothing
Speaker 4: to do with the robbery. And he got fourteen years. No,
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, it was Quadry. It wasn't Bigs. Okay, Cordrey,
Speaker 4: I know, I feel bad for Bigs. We're just dragging
Speaker 4: his name through the mud. Yeah, but it was Rob Cordrey.
Speaker 4: It wasn't Rob Qudrey, but it was his dad. It
Speaker 4: was his great grandfather of Cordrey, and he was Boll's friend.
Speaker 4: He helped him lay low and he wented. Uh. Cordory
Speaker 4: was actually the first one to get to get pinched
Speaker 4: because he and Bowl helped him rent a garage and
Speaker 4: they paid in like the same banknote bills for like
Speaker 4: three months in advance in cash, and the lady said, ah,
Speaker 4: this is a little suspicious, turned him in. Bowl got
Speaker 4: wrapped up, and because all these guys were saying we're innocent,
Speaker 4: they couldn't come out and say, well, he really is innocent, right,
Speaker 4: So they kind of had to take this guilt with them.
Speaker 4: To prison.
Speaker 3: So Bowl got fourteen years for doing nothing really, yeah,
Speaker 3: and for just basically knowing the wrong guys and hanging
Speaker 3: out with the wrong guys. He died in prison.
Speaker 4: I'm not laughing because it's just tragic.
Speaker 3: It is tragic. So his family's like trying to mount
Speaker 3: a campaign now to get a posthumous pardon it least. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but he and the guy who got hit over the
Speaker 3: head the conductor are really the two big victims in
Speaker 3: all of this.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and one of them, there was only one guy
Speaker 4: that turned in his cut of the money, and actually
Speaker 4: we pleaded guilty out of the rest.
Speaker 3: That was Cordry, I think, yeah, that was Cordry. So
Speaker 3: even he says, yes I did it, here's my eighty
Speaker 3: grand the guy who he associated with still got fourteen years.
Speaker 4: And died in jail.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so sad. So you'll notice that we were
Speaker 3: talking about twelve of the fifteen bigs by the way,
Speaker 3: after he stood trial separately, was also found guilty and
Speaker 3: got things like these guys were getting like twenty years,
Speaker 3: thirty years sentence, these enormous sentences for this train robbery.
Speaker 4: Yeah, generally thirty which was double the harshest penalties for
Speaker 4: robbery that they've ever seen.
Speaker 3: Right, which is really strange because the judge in the case,
Speaker 3: he had actually reduced another robber in a completely separate
Speaker 3: robbery where a man had been shot and killed during
Speaker 3: the commission of the robbery. Oh wow, someone who was
Speaker 3: involved in that had his sentence reduced from fifteen years
Speaker 3: to ten years. Crazy because that judge thought it was excessive.
Speaker 3: That same judge was handing out thirty year sentences to
Speaker 3: these guys where no one got killed.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was justice. Edmund Davies. I think because it
Speaker 4: was such a high profile case, he felt he could
Speaker 4: make his name had to be you know.
Speaker 3: So he was making his name though against public sentiment
Speaker 3: because a lot of people were very much saw these
Speaker 3: guys as folk heroes, none more though than Biggs. And
Speaker 3: the reason why Biggs was a folk hero was because
Speaker 3: he evaded captures so long.
Speaker 4: And we'll talk about that right after this fish, all right,
Speaker 4: So some really interesting things happened after they were sentenced.
Speaker 4: Charlie Wilson escaped prison yeap, which was pretty cool. A
Speaker 4: couple of them escaped prison in the way that it
Speaker 4: was very cute how you could escape prison back then. Like,
Speaker 4: let's put a ladder by the fence and climb up
Speaker 4: and jump over into a truck and speed away.
Speaker 3: It turns out that Benny Hill's show was basically a
Speaker 3: docu drama at the time.
Speaker 4: Another one escaped when he I think he had some
Speaker 4: guys infiltrate the prison and help him escape.
Speaker 3: Yeah, in a furniture truck. Yeah, that was a Bigs
Speaker 3: I think.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was a lot easier to escape prison back then.
Speaker 4: And some of these were maximum security for what it's worth,
Speaker 4: you know, Yeah, well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, one of them was Britain's version of Alcatraz, they say,
Speaker 3: Wandsworth Prison and that BIG's escape from there when he
Speaker 3: escaped and went on the Lamb. He went to Australia
Speaker 3: and then eventually moved on to Brazil. But first he
Speaker 3: stopped off at one of the worst human beings to
Speaker 3: ever walk the planet's office, This very same cosmetic surgeon
Speaker 3: who redid the faces of Nazis fleeing Europe at the
Speaker 3: end of World War Two.
Speaker 4: Really, that's who his plastic surgeon was.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, so Biggs got his face redone a little bit,
Speaker 3: went to Australia, made it to Brazil, and he had
Speaker 3: a family in Australia, which he left behind there and
Speaker 3: then went on to Brazil, got a girlfriend and she
Speaker 3: was pregnant with their child when the authorities, the British
Speaker 3: authorities found him in Brazil and he said, oh, turns
Speaker 3: out under Brazilian law you can't extradite the parent of
Speaker 3: a Brazilian citizen.
Speaker 4: Oh crazy.
Speaker 3: So for many, many years Ronald Biggs lived openly as
Speaker 3: this fellon escapee in Brazil. And there are things that
Speaker 3: he couldn't do in Brazil. Apparently he couldn't go to bars,
Speaker 3: It couldn't be out after ten pm. He couldn't associate with,
Speaker 3: you know, anybody with a criminal record or anything like that.
Speaker 3: But he wasn't imprisoned by the Brazilian authorities, and he
Speaker 3: couldn't be extradited to Great Britain, which drove Great Britain
Speaker 3: c oh, I'm sure. And there was this one very
Speaker 3: famous detective who was on this case who made his
Speaker 3: own name. His name was Jack Slipper.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I get the feeling that he and Biggs it
Speaker 4: was sort of like the Les Meserab, like Jean Valjean.
Speaker 4: You know, they had this lifelong.
Speaker 3: Pursuit smoking in the band. Sure, Yeah, it's a very
Speaker 3: old story.
Speaker 4: Yeah it is.
Speaker 3: And Biggs and Jack Slipper were playing it out in
Speaker 3: real life, so much so that Jack Slipper in nineteen
Speaker 3: seventy four showed up on Biggs's doorstep, I guess, just
Speaker 3: to rattle him, just to say I know where you
Speaker 3: are and I can get to you. And Biggs said, yeah,
Speaker 3: but you really can't do anything to me.
Speaker 4: Yeah. And some of the other guys evaded police for
Speaker 4: a little while, for a number of years, but I
Speaker 4: think by nineteen sixty nine they were all caught, except
Speaker 4: for the three that they couldn't finger with good evidence. Yeah,
Speaker 4: but even the main mastermind was able to evade the
Speaker 4: police for four or five years. I think he went
Speaker 4: down Mexico Buster.
Speaker 3: He turned himself in after living on the LAMB for
Speaker 3: three years.
Speaker 4: Yeah. And Bruce Reynolds, I think he was on the
Speaker 4: LAMB for a while too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he got caught in Canada.
Speaker 4: I think.
Speaker 3: One of the guys, well, I guess it was Bruce
Speaker 3: Reynolds when he changed his name when he went on
Speaker 3: the LAMB. He changed his family's last name to Firth.
Speaker 3: Oh really, and he had a wife and son, Colin.
Speaker 3: He changed his son Nick's name to Colin Firth, shut up?
Speaker 4: Is that the guy? No?
Speaker 3: No, oh, totally coincidental.
Speaker 4: Okay, I thought you were gonna say.
Speaker 3: Wouldn't that be amazing if that Colin Firth was the
Speaker 3: son of Bruce Reynolds and it was all in alias
Speaker 3: that he turned into his stage name.
Speaker 4: That would be awesome actually. So one of the fun
Speaker 4: things that the Prime Minister tried to do, because he
Speaker 4: was so upset about this, was he tried to at
Speaker 4: one point, or he didn't try to. He had the
Speaker 4: idea to reissue every banknote in England so their money
Speaker 4: would no longer good.
Speaker 3: So from what I understand, and they were like, yeah,
Speaker 3: you can't do that. From what I understand, most of
Speaker 3: the money was never recovered.
Speaker 4: Yeah, four hundred grand out of the two point six
Speaker 4: million was recovered, right.
Speaker 3: So there was a lot of that out there still.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah.
Speaker 3: But apparently England went to a different type of decimal
Speaker 3: currency by like nineteen seventy I think, and that means
Speaker 3: that that money that was out there automatically became worthless.
Speaker 4: Well apparently they laundered it pretty quickly afterward, so I
Speaker 4: don't know how much that affected them. Okay, like through bookies,
Speaker 4: I got stuff like that. They made it new money. However,
Speaker 4: all of the robbers ended up saying like even if
Speaker 4: they got their cut, like it was a curse and
Speaker 4: they didn't live this rich lifestyle in Mexico in Spain,
Speaker 4: like a bunch of them moved to these places right
Speaker 4: and served shorter sentences because I think parole was brought
Speaker 4: in after they were sentenced. It wasn't even like a
Speaker 4: thing in England until then. But retroactively they were able
Speaker 4: to get out in like, you know, ten or fourteen
Speaker 4: years and then you know, supposedly he had some of
Speaker 4: this money still hidden away. But most of them ended
Speaker 4: up like one guy committed suicide, one guy died in
Speaker 4: a medical trial that he signed up for. One guy was.
Speaker 3: Murdered, yeah, by a hitman on a bike in Spain.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So like most of them have these awful sort
Speaker 4: of ending stories and they didn't live it out like
Speaker 4: Sexy Beast, like Ray Winstone on the Spanish era. I
Speaker 4: think some of that might have been influenced by some
Speaker 4: of that movie.
Speaker 3: I think a lot of Great Britain's love of gangsters
Speaker 3: was yeah, influenced by these guys.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they were definitely looked up to. And it's pretty interesting.
Speaker 3: I've got a little more on Biggs the Ballad of
Speaker 3: Bigs of Bigsy. So he I mean, he really is
Speaker 3: like a folk hero in against antist or with anti
Speaker 3: establishment types in the UK, in part because he was,
Speaker 3: you know, living openly in the face of you know,
Speaker 3: British authority, and it irked the British enough that a
Speaker 3: group of ex British military in nineteen eighty one kidnapped
Speaker 3: him from Brazil and put him on a boat and
Speaker 3: got as far as Barbados, where they had boat trouble wow,
Speaker 3: and they were picked up by the Barbadan authorities. And
Speaker 3: it turns out Barbados doesn't have an extradition treaty with
Speaker 3: the UK either, so he got sent back to Brazil.
Speaker 3: And supposedly these ex military were saying that they planned
Speaker 3: on I guess, getting some sort of reward from the
Speaker 3: British crown for bringing this guy back, right, But it's
Speaker 3: also been supposed that that was actually a plausible deniability
Speaker 3: cover that it was actually like the British really tried
Speaker 3: to have this guynapped.
Speaker 4: It wouldn't surprise me.
Speaker 3: He Yeah, he finally turned himself in and died in
Speaker 3: two thousand and nine. But he turned himself in two
Speaker 3: thousand he started having like failing health, so he's like,
Speaker 3: I guess I'll go live out my life in jail
Speaker 3: for some reason.
Speaker 4: And I think he went to like an old man's
Speaker 4: hospital jail back in the UK. And not all of
Speaker 4: them met, you know, gross untimely demises of you know,
Speaker 4: several of them just kind of retired or went back
Speaker 4: to their work as florist's and uh, yeah, Cordry sort
Speaker 4: of retired with her family in Sussex or London or
Speaker 4: sort of around England. And but apparently none of them
Speaker 4: like got rich off this or they're not talking if
Speaker 4: they did. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Still, well, good good, Yeah, Goods wrote a book, So
Speaker 3: there you go.
Speaker 4: There you have it.
Speaker 3: Uh. If you want to know more about the Great
Speaker 3: Train Robbery, a great place to start is the search
Speaker 3: bar howstuff works dot com. And since I said search bar,
Speaker 3: it's time for listener mail.
Speaker 4: Uh, I'm gonna call the horse milk. In our Animal
Speaker 4: Domestication podcast, we talked about horse milk and I can't
Speaker 4: remember what I said. I probably said it was gross
Speaker 4: or something.
Speaker 3: Well, I think we said like we want to hear
Speaker 3: from people who've had it, and I figured we'd hear
Speaker 3: from a couple of people, but I'm blown away by
Speaker 3: how many people have had a brush with horse milk.
Speaker 4: A lot of people liked it too, this is not
Speaker 4: one of them. Hey, guys, just listen to the podcast
Speaker 4: on animal domestication. I wanted to tell you about the
Speaker 4: revolting drink called Kumas from Kazakhstan. It's ku miss Mela Kumas.
Speaker 4: It is similar to the more familiar product Kiefer, which
Speaker 4: we talked about that and something else, right, yeah or something.
Speaker 3: It's like Balki's version of sour milk Colgary and I.
Speaker 4: Think, yeah, he said it's made from horse milk because
Speaker 4: horse milk has more natural sugars than cow, sheep or
Speaker 4: goat milk. Kumus ends up being mildly alcoholic after fermentation.
Speaker 3: Crazy.
Speaker 4: Imagine the sourness of raw yogurt mixed with the bite
Speaker 4: of a shot of vodka and round it all out
Speaker 4: with the disgusting tang of horse milk, and you've got
Speaker 4: kumas well.
Speaker 3: I don't understand that last part, Like I don't have
Speaker 3: anything to equate that with horse milk, vodka, check sour
Speaker 3: like Forto yogurt.
Speaker 4: But you don't know that disgusting tang. No, and I
Speaker 4: want to know now. You know in Toronto when I
Speaker 4: was there, my friend Chris from Let's Drink About It
Speaker 4: ate horse meat.
Speaker 3: They in front of you.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 4: I was supposed to go to dinner with them, but
Speaker 4: I was sick. And after we recorded, they went out,
Speaker 4: and the next day he was like, dude, eight horse meat.
Speaker 4: Yesterday I went they go to Ikea. No, they went
Speaker 4: to some one of those adventurous restaurants. And I was like,
Speaker 4: Josh would have been all over that, but not me. No,
Speaker 4: thank you. Yeah, you'd eat horse meat, right, you try
Speaker 4: it out, probably, but not horse milk.
Speaker 3: Only if the horse died of old age.
Speaker 4: So Greg says, I drank it. Well that's what they said.
Speaker 4: They supposedly all of them. They're called what do you
Speaker 4: call them, barbarians something?
Speaker 3: Horses like old dead horses.
Speaker 4: No, basically there were horses that died of natural casts.
Speaker 4: They called them like horses.
Speaker 3: No, like golden age horses.
Speaker 4: No, there's a word.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of words.
Speaker 4: I can say them all. So Greg drank it in Kazakhstan,
Speaker 4: and he said it was served in a bowl what
Speaker 4: he you would describe as a bowl. You get cocktail
Speaker 4: peanuts like you would get cocktail peanuts, and like, instead
Speaker 4: of a bowl of peanuts, it's a bowl of this
Speaker 4: disgusting drink. Wow. I've lived in the Caucasus for four
Speaker 4: years now, I've had my share of questionable foods, and
Speaker 4: the only thing I found more disagreeable than a saucer
Speaker 4: of kumus was a pickled rooster comb. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 4: he said. It was all skin and cardles. It felt
Speaker 4: like I was eating an ear. Wow, man, that is
Speaker 4: from Greg. That's called using every part of the animal. Yeah, Greg,
Speaker 4: you just blew my mind.
Speaker 3: Same here, man.
Speaker 4: I wish I could think of the horses. Uh, not
Speaker 4: like freedom horses, but it.
Speaker 3: Was something like freedom is a word the horses that
Speaker 3: want you to eat them? Yeah, donor horses. Well we'll
Speaker 3: find out and tell everybody next time. Okay.
Speaker 4: Yeah, essential is they're horses that died of natural causes.
Speaker 4: They weren't killed for their meat. I gotcha. Yeah.
Speaker 3: If you want to let us know about an experience
Speaker 3: you had that is fascinating or amazing, you can tweet
Speaker 3: it to us. At s y Skpodcast. You can join
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Speaker 3: as Stuffishould.
Speaker 4: Know dot com.
Speaker 2: For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit
Speaker 2: HowStuffWorks dot com.