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Speaker 1: This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: boat bitten and in my case, underwear. Listen, don't make

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Speaker 1: you eat your podcast. You can't predict anything, all right. Um,

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Speaker 1: first thing I'm gonna do is screw Yanni over here

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Speaker 1: because I, uh, did you bring my perch flies? No? Alright, Yanni?

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Speaker 1: If anyone's been following this, Yannie will not make me

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Speaker 1: my perch flies until because he won't. Um, I won't

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Speaker 1: do any promotion and for his T shirt company, So

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Speaker 1: I will not talk about the striking red Hunt to

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Speaker 1: Eat knee Eater collaboration T shirt that he's wearing right now.

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Speaker 1: Take that, because he will not. What's you know? What's

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Speaker 1: the stinker about our hunting fans and our and our

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Speaker 1: purchasers and buyers is that you know, we make these

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Speaker 1: colors thinking like man, someone's gonna break out of the

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Speaker 1: mold of blue, gray and white. And we've sold probably

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Speaker 1: almost a hundred to one blue to red T shirts

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Speaker 1: people like blue. Are you plugging your T shirt coming

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Speaker 1: right now? No, I'm talking about his buyers. You're The

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Speaker 1: thing about the thing about the perch fly that's driving

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Speaker 1: nuts is like I put a picture up of the

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Speaker 1: perch fly and people like, oh yeah, it's it's such

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Speaker 1: an easy tie, you know. But that's not the point.

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Speaker 1: The point is that twenty months ago I asked you

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Speaker 1: to do a small favor and you refused. Um, what's that?

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Speaker 1: What's that hook? Do you want him on? I'll show

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Speaker 1: you right there. Well, i'll show you in a minute.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I like unlike most people who have

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Speaker 1: been fishing for a long time, I can't tell you.

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Speaker 1: I can't look at the hook and tell you. I

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Speaker 1: just know what I want to see it. But that's

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Speaker 1: not what I want to talk about. There's a thing

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about. There's the main thing we're

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Speaker 1: gonna talk about, and there's a thing I want to

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Speaker 1: talk about real quickly before the main thing. And then

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Speaker 1: I already have a segue. That's It's amazing how I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna get from the one to the other. It's gonna

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Speaker 1: be like you're reading a David Foster Wallace thing. When

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Speaker 1: I hit my segue. Um, you'll see in a minute.

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Speaker 1: The first thing I was gonna talk about his call

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Speaker 1: Ryan Callahan's here, Calt. What was the your favorite thing

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Speaker 1: about the week you just spend at our fish shack,

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Speaker 1: like your your favorite thing that I did. Oh so

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Speaker 1: went to Steve's Fish Act in Alaska and it was

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Speaker 1: so overwhelmingly awesome. I'm having a hard time picking something out,

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Speaker 1: but I loved the harpooning of halibut next to the boat. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: when we get a big halibut, because we're fishing small boats,

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Speaker 1: really small sixteen foot skiff and the eighteen ft skill

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Speaker 1: like I would think people were looking at as funny

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Speaker 1: when they're putting by us in their pur sayers and

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Speaker 1: stuff out there. Yeah, and when you get a big

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Speaker 1: fish in a little boat, it's different than a big

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Speaker 1: fish in a big boat. So what we'll do is

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Speaker 1: we get them up and then we'll harpoon them and

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Speaker 1: then sometimes kind of hog time and then drag them

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Speaker 1: up into the boat. It's fun, incredibly fun. Explain that

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Speaker 1: how that harpoon works. It's a detachable head on it.

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Speaker 1: So what I did is I went down to home Depot.

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Speaker 1: I mean you can buy them, but I went down

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Speaker 1: to home Depot and bought a whole handle, like a

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Speaker 1: replacement handle for a garden hole, and drilled it out

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Speaker 1: and put a piece of stainless steel. U doubt stainless

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Speaker 1: steel riding there and then there's a detachable head you

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Speaker 1: buy where the detachable heads slips over the stainless steel

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Speaker 1: shaft and that's connected to a cable and then you

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Speaker 1: run the cable to a rope and the rope to

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Speaker 1: a buoy. So when you stick the fish and the

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Speaker 1: gill cover you pass through the fish, the detachable head

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Speaker 1: comes off and forms like a toggle on the other

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Speaker 1: side if you get a clean pass through, and then

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Speaker 1: you just throw the booty overboard and you watch that

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Speaker 1: booty kind of go and a good fish will pull

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Speaker 1: the booty. The bootie's out sides of a beach ball,

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Speaker 1: small beach ball. We didn't see the buoy going under,

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Speaker 1: but we had uh the one kind of yeah, how

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Speaker 1: that will take that booy way down, you know. And

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Speaker 1: we've had it too. Were you sticking with the hard

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Speaker 1: poon and the rod comes undone like the hook comes out,

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Speaker 1: and then you know you go, you can disconnecting the

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Speaker 1: anchor line and go get chase the booty and get

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Speaker 1: the fish. It's nice it pins those gills down, um,

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Speaker 1: and it just you have all this chaos of this

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Speaker 1: thing coming up to the boat and there's rods and

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Speaker 1: and sharp hooks and stuff flying around, and then a

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Speaker 1: lot of dudes yelling real real, real give advice. So

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Speaker 1: if you hit the fish and the gill cover and

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Speaker 1: get like a good pass through, then what you can

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Speaker 1: do is you just once you get the fish out

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Speaker 1: of the boat, he's if you hit him to gil

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Speaker 1: and his gills are bleeding, they'll kind of bleed him

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Speaker 1: out anyways. But then if he's big, you can bleed

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Speaker 1: him and then take the cable and pull it tight

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Speaker 1: and hog tied around his tail so he's curled up.

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Speaker 1: Then drag him the boat and he doesn't go bananas

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Speaker 1: in the boat and the whole help. But it was

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Speaker 1: amazing because like the bleeding process, it's like almost like

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Speaker 1: if you were to you know, it's a ton of blood,

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Speaker 1: like major artery just I mean gives big squirt. And

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Speaker 1: then the intestines on a sauce it looks like about

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Speaker 1: making sausage casing. I've never seen intestines on the fit

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Speaker 1: like discernible in it was the whole We opened up

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Speaker 1: a hall of it stomach were you there for that?

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Speaker 1: We don't know the hall but stomach and it had

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Speaker 1: a seabird in it. Yeah, I was there for that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he caught a seabird a diver you were doing? At first?

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Speaker 1: I thought, at first I thought he had a porcupine,

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Speaker 1: because it was kind of it was digested partially. But

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Speaker 1: then I realized I was just looking at the um

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Speaker 1: the basis of the feathers, which seemed yeah. So however

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Speaker 1: the hell he come into that either died and sank,

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Speaker 1: or he grabbed it when it was down fishing. Um

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Speaker 1: pulled a big chunk of squid out of one, a

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Speaker 1: lot of fish bones, found a rockfish old list in

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Speaker 1: one's gut, and then what else we so we got

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Speaker 1: a bait, a lot of old bait, a lot of

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Speaker 1: salmon bellies. We'll take on pink salmon. You're allowed to

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Speaker 1: use the belly strip of pink salmon, so we use

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Speaker 1: pink salmon bellies. Hooligans. My brother Danny dipped up a

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Speaker 1: bunch of hooligans in the twenty mile river they run

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Speaker 1: in the spring. So salt the hooligans down and use

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Speaker 1: people called candle fish. It's a very oily fish and uh,

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Speaker 1: all amazing information. However, it will be gone because nobody

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Speaker 1: wants to keep a journal up there like this is

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Speaker 1: all good stuff. I think it will improve. Yeah. But

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Speaker 1: what I'm gonna do, though, is I want to start

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Speaker 1: take up one of our charts and start putting a

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Speaker 1: pin at all known Halibit locations, all known Yellow Eye,

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Speaker 1: and all the linkod locations. So we also dove um.

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Speaker 1: One day we went out on a good we had

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Speaker 1: a good low tide. Uh. You know, lunar cycles drive

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Speaker 1: the tides, but there's also a big influence from the sun.

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Speaker 1: So when the Sun and the moon are aligned right,

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Speaker 1: you can get very deep tides and they're normal. So

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Speaker 1: like it's tide start at sea level. High tide would

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Speaker 1: be a high high tide to be plus twenty, so

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Speaker 1: twenty ft above sea level, but a big low tide

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Speaker 1: is only like minus four minus five. We went out

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Speaker 1: of the minus three tide and dove for scallops, rock

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Speaker 1: scallops and cucumbers, and Cal was the boat tender for that.

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Speaker 1: We gotta the amount of se cucumbers. Yeah, you gotta

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Speaker 1: google these things. And it looked like this. Really, it

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Speaker 1: looks like a diseased male member, seriously diseased bad and

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Speaker 1: they come in acid trip. Yeah, if you had a

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Speaker 1: diseased male member and looked at it while tripping sign

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Speaker 1: me up. That was the voice of Hillary. Oh, I

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Speaker 1: want to do my thing though my transition, so check

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Speaker 1: it out. So my fish shacks on the beach. Okay,

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Speaker 1: someone can come walking down the beach in front of

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Speaker 1: my fish shack. Legally, I have no right to go

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Speaker 1: yell at him, right, correct. That's why we're gonna talk

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Speaker 1: about access. You guys like that. Um uh as though

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Speaker 1: dealing poker. We got five people here, can can uh

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Speaker 1: like I'm dealing now to you? So introduce yourself please

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Speaker 1: land Tani back country hunters in English. It's it. I

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Speaker 1: mean like like sushi anytime. I do have two young

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Speaker 1: kids and the eight year old and a five year old. Uh,

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Speaker 1: spent a lot of time outdoor. Just got back from

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Speaker 1: the Bob Marshall, spent my thirteenth wedding anniversary and the

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Speaker 1: Bob Marshall this weekend. I did, and just us too.

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Speaker 1: You haven't done that thirteen times in a row, head, No,

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Speaker 1: that's three years in a row. My brother renews his

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Speaker 1: vow every university I don't know married two years. Okay,

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Speaker 1: probably she puts the dress back on and oh they

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Speaker 1: did not redo the vows I mean, that's what they

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Speaker 1: like to do. That's what they like to do, right.

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Speaker 1: You know what's cool about where he got married. He

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Speaker 1: got married on his wife's ranch or family's ranch, been

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Speaker 1: there for a couple of a few generations. You know,

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Speaker 1: they got a family plot where the grandparents and stuff

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Speaker 1: embars buried. They got married right there. Abody to go

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Speaker 1: back up there for sure? Where'd you go on to, Bob?

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Speaker 1: We went in, uh, just outside of Ceey, not Pyramid

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Speaker 1: Pass and not Morle Falls, but somewhere close um and

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Speaker 1: went into this lake up on tops about three and

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Speaker 1: a half miles and you get feet of elevation and

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Speaker 1: that three and a half miles. So we got four

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Speaker 1: of them. With a gas we hammered the cut throats

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Speaker 1: fan and the first lake that we stayed at was dead.

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Speaker 1: It had a bunch of leeches in it, no fish.

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Speaker 1: And you popped into this one that had bad leeches,

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Speaker 1: like big leches, big ones like that big. You think

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Speaker 1: there would be fish because of that. That's why I

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Speaker 1: think when we saw him, like they are all these

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Speaker 1: leeches are out in the open just like swimming around,

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Speaker 1: and so we you know, like it was like that

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Speaker 1: was a red flag that there was no fish in there,

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Speaker 1: and then we we stayed right there because they'll they'll

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Speaker 1: parasite on the fish. Official eve s there's no fish

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Speaker 1: there because all the baits there. No. What I'm saying

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Speaker 1: is when I when the bates being that obvious that

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Speaker 1: we got full rain bait, it's like baitland. So we didn't.

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Speaker 1: There was no fish there, but there was a like

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Speaker 1: a probably i don't know, a mile and a half

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Speaker 1: away there was an awesome little lake where we had

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Speaker 1: a waterfall that was about forty ft coming off this

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Speaker 1: sheer kind of rock face, and at that inlet, it

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Speaker 1: was just game on and we My wife doesn't five

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Speaker 1: fish that much, and she just had a ball and

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Speaker 1: she looked over me at one point she's like, you

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Speaker 1: made make a fisherman out of me. At some point. No,

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Speaker 1: they stayed with mother in law, so we had us

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Speaker 1: two for three days, no cell phones, and like there

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Speaker 1: was actually some romance and we could have adult conversations.

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Speaker 1: You know. The best fisherman ever, my provider. At this lake,

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Speaker 1: there's a bear tracks like forty yards from camp. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean we're not there when he showed up, and

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Speaker 1: we're there and don't know they were there, like they

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Speaker 1: were probably like a day old when we got there,

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Speaker 1: which was the way I'd like to say, good, see

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Speaker 1: what the bear still in it? Well, I like the embarrassment.

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Speaker 1: Not close. Yeah, alright, man, we saw some cool bears

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Speaker 1: feeding it. We were down fishing silvers one night last

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Speaker 1: week and there's five or six bears in there. Incredible

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Speaker 1: would they take turns? Because he's staking out this little

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Speaker 1: riffle and when a fish would come up the riff,

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Speaker 1: we grabbed it and he hauled it up and the

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Speaker 1: bushes to eat and his body who was just like

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Speaker 1: basically taking a bath. Yeah, like cool, it was hot.

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Speaker 1: This body's like cooling off into pool and he's like,

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Speaker 1: oh my turn and it runs over the riff. I

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Speaker 1: want to grab a fish head in the woods. The

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Speaker 1: next one to come to the riff all and it

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Speaker 1: was we were sitting in a canoe and you could

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Speaker 1: take your my fly rod and basically touch each bank

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Speaker 1: from sitting in the canoe. So it was really tight.

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Speaker 1: And they're ultimately six six black bears up there feeding

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Speaker 1: my kid. The kid didn't like it. He can't think

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Speaker 1: the bears are gonna get him. He was a little nervous,

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Speaker 1: but at the end of the day, he's like, the

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Speaker 1: best day ever. You know, that was great. I told him,

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Speaker 1: I'm in charge of being worried about bears. I'll tell

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Speaker 1: you when it is time to worry about bears. And

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Speaker 1: these bears have a lot on their mind besides you,

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Speaker 1: who's been around more bears or you? You? Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: was cute alright. Next. My name is Hilary Larry Hutcheson

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Speaker 1: and I live in northwest Montana, mother of mother of

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Speaker 1: two cooligans uh teenagers twelve and fourteen. I don't know

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Speaker 1: why I'm bringing up who's got kids? Like, No, it's

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Speaker 1: good to know. I mean, it's important. It's all part

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Speaker 1: of it. You mean, you do what you do for yourself,

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Speaker 1: but also for them and and I hope they enjoy

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Speaker 1: it too at some point. And if they don't, you

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Speaker 1: know now, you hope they will. Yeah, yeah, No, it's important.

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Speaker 1: It's good to ask, especially with three kids. That's kind

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Speaker 1: of the first thing you ask, right, Yeah, then you

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Speaker 1: know you can complain about your kids with other people. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: He started it with does your kid eat shirt? No?

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Speaker 1: Neither does mine. I spect we have breakfast this morning?

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Speaker 1: There was no complaining about kids at all. Yeah, none.

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Speaker 1: So run down, run down, um, you know, lay at

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Speaker 1: me kind of your your professional scope, your professional purview.

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Speaker 1: It's not a word I use very often. I don't

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Speaker 1: even know if it was used properly for I'm uh yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: So I'm a I'm a fly fishing guide in northwest Montana.

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Speaker 1: I guy for glacier anglers. I got to work with

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Speaker 1: kel over here back in the day. Yeah, and uh,

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Speaker 1: it's your busy season right now, right it is a

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Speaker 1: busy season, Yeah, for sure. But I'm kind of making

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Speaker 1: the rounds doing some other things right now, even though

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Speaker 1: it's a busy season. Have been there for a really

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Speaker 1: long time, and so now I've kind of tried to

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Speaker 1: make use of that time and other ways and trying

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Speaker 1: to balance it a little bit. But like I just

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Speaker 1: got back from Washington, d C. To talk about how

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Speaker 1: climate change is affecting our fishery, and so right now

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Speaker 1: in Montana, across Montana, you know, we're in hoodal conditions.

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Speaker 1: You can't fish after two pm. The river is too low,

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Speaker 1: too hot to dry. It's really difficult on the fish.

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Speaker 1: And so you know, seeing a lot of different things

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Speaker 1: happen around Montana and we're talking about access. That's kind

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Speaker 1: of one of them. But so I try to, you know,

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Speaker 1: squeeze some other things in there during my busy season.

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Speaker 1: I have a trip tomorrow. I got to be there

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Speaker 1: six am, get ready for a full day tomorrow. Yeah, yep,

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Speaker 1: unless this still laze me, What are you guys gonna

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Speaker 1: go after tomorrow? Tomorrow? What are we fishing for? Target? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: So our fisheries just cutties. There's bullies in there. The

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Speaker 1: bullies are actually doing better this year than I thought

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Speaker 1: they would be. But um, lots of mostly cut throat

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Speaker 1: is kind of what we're fishing for. Yeah, man, native trout. Man, God, yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: it's it's that's what people come there for right now.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's in West Glacier. People are coming to

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Speaker 1: see the last of the Glaciers, but they're also coming

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Speaker 1: to fish for native West Loope cutthroat trout. It's great,

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Speaker 1: and now people are kind of at the point that

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Speaker 1: they can say it by name, like a lot of

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Speaker 1: times it used to be back in the day. People

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Speaker 1: get on your boat and they're like, so what are

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Speaker 1: we fishing for today? You know, now it's like destination

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Speaker 1: fishery they know what they're coming for because it's they

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Speaker 1: want they want to see, they want to catch them

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Speaker 1: and call my first bull trout that guy right there. Wow,

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Speaker 1: you got lucky. I mean, I mean Cal got lucky.

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Speaker 1: He kind of showed me how to do it. Man,

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Speaker 1: All right, Cal, introduce yourself? Is that you are? You? Are?

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Speaker 1: You satisfied with your introduction? But you do but now,

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Speaker 1: but you do a TV show? Yeah, yeah, I have

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Speaker 1: a television show. And you got to say the fly shop. Yeah?

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Speaker 1: And I got a fly shop. Yeah yeah, I own

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Speaker 1: a fly shop in my town. Talk about a fly

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Speaker 1: shop first, because it's uh, it's kind of my favorite

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Speaker 1: right now about too, And I took copious notes. Now

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Speaker 1: I don't know how to make them. I don't have

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Speaker 1: a home depot nearby, but I know a bunch of

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Speaker 1: hose no I yeah, no. The fly shop is called

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Speaker 1: Larry's fly And supply it's called that it's for Hillary,

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Speaker 1: but it's l A. R. Y s. But the reason

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Speaker 1: it's called that is this is the town I grew

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Speaker 1: up in, where my my shop is. And when I

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Speaker 1: was a kid in high school, in sports, we put

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Speaker 1: our first name on the back of our jerseys. One

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Speaker 1: year and somebody made a mistake the printer and put

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Speaker 1: a space in between the HI and l A r y.

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Speaker 1: So I went running out in the car, said, Hi,

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Speaker 1: Larry's all the old guys who come into my shop

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Speaker 1: now they walk into the shop and they're like, Hi Larry. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's Larry's Flying Supply. Yeah. I wanted it to be

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Speaker 1: Larry's Bait and Tackle, but I figured people would actually come. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so Larry's Flying Supply. It's in Columbia Falls, Montana. And then, um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I run trout. That's a good name for a shop.

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Speaker 1: I thought long and hard about it. Not really, it's

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Speaker 1: like it's it's a refreshing name for a fly shop.

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Speaker 1: Well it's the other part two is it's a dude's name, right, Larry.

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Speaker 1: So I was waiting for somebody to come in and

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Speaker 1: you know, ask for Larry. And it finally happened this summer.

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Speaker 1: Finally a guy came in. No, I mean, I wrung.

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Speaker 1: I didn't recognize him. Most of the time. If anybody

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Speaker 1: in my town, you know, they get a discount and

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Speaker 1: recognize them, it's like their shop two kind of a thing.

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Speaker 1: And um, but if they're tourists and maybe they come

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Speaker 1: in there kind of an asshole or something. I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to give him a ascount. So come in. I

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Speaker 1: ring this guy up and he leans forward and he's like, well,

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Speaker 1: Larry always gives me a discount. And I was like,

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Speaker 1: does he Larry? It's Larry's day off? You got me? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's awesome alright. Anyways, cal oh Ryan Callahan. Uh get

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Speaker 1: a run around with Steve and Yannia on occasion. And

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Speaker 1: I worked with First Light. We make hunting clothes. Um,

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Speaker 1: great clothes. Check him out, and um, I have no kids,

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Speaker 1: you know, to say harr pooner in Spanish fiscador, Oh yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I got got that mixed up with your pinky, thank you,

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Speaker 1: thank you, tuscadero. Um, no kids, you know, oh no,

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Speaker 1: but calls family. You can't look him up, don't. You

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Speaker 1: can talk about that if you want to talk about it.

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Speaker 1: How I tried a dating website and uh, I need

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Speaker 1: to hit a few dates. I went on a couple

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Speaker 1: of dates, first couple of dates in a long time,

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Speaker 1: and um, I just kind of came to the conclusion

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Speaker 1: that I got a lot of stuff going on and

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Speaker 1: hunting seasons around the corner. So I should probably just

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Speaker 1: pump the brakes on that situation so you can take

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Speaker 1: the profile down. No, because it's pretty entertaining when you're

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Speaker 1: sitting on the pot. So Yanni, that's that's sexy. I

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Speaker 1: need to see them all trying to figure out what

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Speaker 1: app that is right now? Did cucumber dot com? I'll

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Speaker 1: damn flies. That's how I was gonna introduce myself the

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Speaker 1: guy it's too busy to make Steve flies. I've been

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Speaker 1: shooting my bowl, I've been riding my bike. What are

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Speaker 1: the recording have I been doing? No fishing, chasing the babies,

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Speaker 1: chasing babies around? Um, you're cool on that. Okay, Now

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Speaker 1: what I want to talk I want to talk about

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Speaker 1: stream access and I'm trying to find the way to

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Speaker 1: even how to address I forgot about I did that

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Speaker 1: segue earlier, so now trying to I'm trying to get

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Speaker 1: a good way into this. It's gonna help set the scene. Um,

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Speaker 1: all right, So when you if anyone anyone's listening to

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Speaker 1: ever walk down like the beach. Okay, and you're walking

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Speaker 1: down a beach, let's say you're even on a lake

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Speaker 1: or on the ocean, and you're walking down the beach

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Speaker 1: and you're walking where people have homes or condominiums or

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Speaker 1: golf courses or whatever on the land, and you're allowed

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Speaker 1: to walk down the beach. Okay, you're doing you're you're

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Speaker 1: doing a type of legal access there where the water

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Speaker 1: is not privately owned. Okay. So landownership on the ocean,

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Speaker 1: or you know in the US, typically landownership on lakes, oceans,

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Speaker 1: large rivers extends down to the water's edge, and there's

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Speaker 1: varying definitions on what the water's edges, and you can

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Speaker 1: kind of cruise along there. The same way if you

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Speaker 1: go down to the Mississippi River and watch on the

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Speaker 1: Mississippi River, you will see recreational vessels, commercial vessels vying

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Speaker 1: their way up and down the river with no regards

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Speaker 1: to who owns the land on the banks. Meaning if

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Speaker 1: I own both sides of the Mississippi River, uh, I

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Speaker 1: have no say over what goes on in that river.

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Speaker 1: I can't yell at someone and say, hey, you can't

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Speaker 1: conduct intracontinental commerce up and down this tier river because

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Speaker 1: I happen to own the land on each bank, and

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Speaker 1: I'm declaring the Mississippi River has my own. Now that's

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Speaker 1: the Mississippi. Extend that down. Um, you know, to go

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Speaker 1: smaller and smaller, you have the Ohio River. The Ohio River,

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00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:10,120
Speaker 1: giant river is a navigable river. Um, if you own

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Speaker 1: land on both sides of the river, you can't impede

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Speaker 1: public access and commercial traffic up and down the river.

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Speaker 1: As you shrink down, down, down, now down, you get

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Speaker 1: to sort two streams, rivuletts, creeks where at some point

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Speaker 1: there arises a question of can the public use this

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Speaker 1: waterway or not? Or with even it can happen. We're

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Speaker 1: talking about stream access specifically here, but it can happen

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Speaker 1: with lakes too. Is can the public have access to

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Speaker 1: the littoral zone, the border between land, or the seam

400
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Speaker 1: where land meets water, or the water itself. I grew

401
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Speaker 1: up on a lake called Middle Lake in Twin Lake,

402
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Speaker 1: Michigan now Middle Lake. Thankfully, I used to hate it

403
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Speaker 1: phenomenature enough to love it. The lake had a public

404
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Speaker 1: access boat launch. Okay, a fella could, when I was

405
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Speaker 1: growing up, walk down the public access boat launch and

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Speaker 1: then walk all the way around the lake, and he

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00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 1: could fish and wade and even use the docks along

408
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Speaker 1: the lake. Because those docks were built out over public water.

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Speaker 1: Certain people would love to come out and yell at you,

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Speaker 1: um and tell you and try to yell at you

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Speaker 1: and say you weren't allowed there. But I knew enough

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Speaker 1: to know that you were, and that was an access issue.

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Speaker 1: So just because my family owned property on the lake

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Speaker 1: didn't mean we could tell people they couldn't boat in

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Speaker 1: front of our house or walk down the beach in

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Speaker 1: front of our house. At my fish shack in Alaska,

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Speaker 1: I cannot come out and start screaming in the hollering

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Speaker 1: at someone who goes and anchors their skiff in front

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Speaker 1: of my shock on the CoV i'man because that's not

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Speaker 1: my water, that's the people's water. Where this all becomes

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Speaker 1: a debate, where this becomes an issue that's that's being

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Speaker 1: fought out in courts and around the country, is particularly

423
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:14,800
Speaker 1: with streams that are kind of on the border of

424
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:20,640
Speaker 1: navigable or not um. Even though I try to stay

425
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 1: away from getting to Montana centric with all kinds of

426
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 1: Montana people. Here, let's talk for a minute about Montana

427
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 1: and I'll introduce and I'll kind of bring up a

428
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,359
Speaker 1: creek that I'm familiar with and sort of explain what

429
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 1: I'm saying one time that there's a creek in Montaina

430
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:40,240
Speaker 1: called Lolo Creek, and it's named after a fella who

431
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 1: I believe he was killed by Grizzly, and they're a

432
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 1: trapper named Lolo Um. It's buried somewhere around there too,

433
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 1: yet killed by Grizzling. His buddy buried him up there.

434
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 1: I don't know that people argue about where he was buried.

435
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 1: I think someone thought they found where he was buried.

436
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 1: But he he grew by Lolo. He's a French dude,

437
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 1: got a mountain, a town named after him, got a

438
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,440
Speaker 1: creek named after him, got a national forest named after him,

439
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 1: got a peak named after him. There's no brewery and

440
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 1: brewers named after him. Brewery named after another dude named Laramie.

441
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 1: So a guy named Laramie comes out to Wyoming, a

442
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:15,880
Speaker 1: mount would be mountain Man Wyoming. Mountain man comes out

443
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,120
Speaker 1: to Wyoming, gets killed by Indians. They stuff him under

444
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:20,679
Speaker 1: the They chip a hole in the ice of a

445
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 1: beaver pond and stuff from down in there. Some of

446
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 1: its minds up with a town, river, mountain range. So

447
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:35,640
Speaker 1: Lolo Creek. One time I hiked over the hiked over

448
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 1: the divide of the Bid Roots down into the headwaters

449
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: of Lolo Creek with a pack raft and in in

450
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 1: on National forest Land. Inflated my pack raft during spring

451
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,119
Speaker 1: runoff and started coming down the river. And I remember

452
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 1: that I was in what was regarded initially as a

453
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:55,440
Speaker 1: non navigable stretch of that river. So by floating down

454
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:57,920
Speaker 1: the river, I was actually trespassing on whose ever land

455
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 1: that creek flowed through. Then I magically hit a point

456
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:08,399
Speaker 1: at a bridge where that river became legally navigable. I

457
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 1: was then allowed I then entered apart region have to

458
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,160
Speaker 1: be paranoid, and I was then allowed to float through

459
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,919
Speaker 1: all the ranch land as long as I stayed below

460
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 1: what's called high water mark. At that point, it was

461
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 1: regarded as legally navigable because in the historic record there

462
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 1: is information to suggest that from that point down people

463
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 1: used to float timber. They would stick logs in Lolo

464
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 1: Creek at that point and float them down to the

465
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 1: bid Route and use it for commerce. So the state

466
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:49,639
Speaker 1: recognizes that Lolo Creek from that point down is a

467
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:54,400
Speaker 1: navigable river, meaning once someone has legal access into the river,

468
00:26:54,800 --> 00:27:03,400
Speaker 1: they can wade, fish, float other f things as long

469
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,159
Speaker 1: as you stay other legal activities as long as you

470
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 1: stay below high water mark, meaning you stay below the

471
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:17,399
Speaker 1: bank of the river as described by the waters level

472
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 1: at peak point. So if it's a drought, you can

473
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 1: you can walk in the mud as long as it

474
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: is where river normally occupies during high water. Yes, and

475
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 1: and and the way that gets to find two is

476
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,199
Speaker 1: a lot of like it's a vegetation change, right, Like

477
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 1: you have a definite vegetation change from like stuff that

478
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:37,880
Speaker 1: gets has water over the top of us doesn't grow

479
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 1: very well. It's something that's really well established. You can

480
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 1: kind of tell that different. Yeah, and it also like

481
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 1: cut banks and various things. I'm almost done talking, but

482
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 1: that's only a little more basic groundwork. Yeah, it would

483
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:49,360
Speaker 1: be good to touch on two on where that where

484
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 1: the whole definition of navigable navigable comes from, because there's

485
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 1: all that's the thing. It's actually more of a federal thing,

486
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: and it's kind of like an accepted federal definition of

487
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: the waterways. It's actually the states that are more fighting

488
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,199
Speaker 1: over the land, which is kind of what we're talking to,

489
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 1: because it's the access of the land. You know, if

490
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,119
Speaker 1: you're if you're talking about walking down it and not

491
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 1: just floating it. Like the Army Corps of engineers have

492
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,680
Speaker 1: always been the ones that kind of like set the

493
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 1: base level for navigable, and some states defined that differently

494
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,120
Speaker 1: by saying, as long as you're doing anything, it could

495
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 1: be commercial, could be fishing, could be hunting, any sort

496
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:32,919
Speaker 1: of recreating. But I mean you said it, it's like

497
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,640
Speaker 1: like Lolo Creek they were pushing logs down, you know.

498
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 1: But some sort of use like that, you know, deems

499
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 1: that navigable. Um. But the Army Corps engineers have been

500
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 1: the ones that have kind of like set the definition

501
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 1: for that, and then the states take that and kind

502
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 1: of the states look at it too as at the

503
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 1: time of statehood, did we use it as a highway?

504
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 1: Did we use it as the main mode of transportation

505
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 1: to kind of build our cities and our towns and

506
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 1: start to create that commerce. So if you're able to

507
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 1: look at it and say that at our time of statehood,

508
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: this is how we built our state. We use this

509
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 1: waterway as as the way to actually build our existence here,

510
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 1: then that's the way that you know they're able to

511
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 1: win lawsuits in Utah for example, Okay, I wanta I

512
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 1: need to do something real quick. I need to put

513
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 1: out before before people get too lost. Put out Why

514
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 1: this matters? Why does matters? Is all these definitions are

515
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 1: talking about UM pertain to you. If you like to

516
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 1: hunt and fish and recreate and float. They pertain to

517
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: you because there are people out there, wealthy, very well

518
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 1: connected people out there who are trying to limit down

519
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 1: UM very aggressively, try to limit down where you can

520
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 1: go on the water. There are a lot of people

521
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 1: who own land and they're like, why in the hell

522
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 1: can Joe Schmo come floating down this river and cross

523
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 1: in front of my land? That is for me, I

524
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 1: don't like seeing it. I wish they weren't able to

525
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: come down and catch the fish that live in this

526
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 1: river or whatever, because it pisces me off. I paid

527
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 1: a lot of money, worked hard all my life, and

528
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 1: now I got any old asshole can come floating down

529
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: the river in front of my house. And it gets

530
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,479
Speaker 1: a little more complicated than that too, like, for instance,

531
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 1: you might you have people UM who want to sell

532
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 1: the idea of exclusive access on rivers, and so they're

533
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 1: trying to limit down stream access and access points. That's

534
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 1: why this kind of matters. UM. Let's go back real

535
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 1: quick to the Montana issue. Montana recognizes by law right,

536
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 1: it's recognized Montana you have legal stream access. If you

537
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 1: can legally get into a river, you're allowed to use it.

538
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 1: But where is it becoming a thorny issue? So I

539
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 1: think it goes back to something you just said, is

540
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 1: I think a lot of folks um that are moving

541
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 1: into Montana that one don't understand the culture. But then

542
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 1: two we're sold that piece of property like you are

543
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 1: buying a piece of Montana. And so they're like, well,

544
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 1: I love that piece three miles of exclusive access, which

545
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 1: is they aren't told the laws they're in place right now.

546
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 1: That explain to that that any you know, asshole can

547
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 1: go like you know, fish and floating in wade in

548
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: front of the regular poor people floating by me included.

549
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 1: And so like when they when they buy that piece

550
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 1: of property and then they see that person, they're like,

551
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 1: whoa wait a minute. And so I think they're being

552
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 1: sold um a bill of goods a little bit that

553
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 1: they're not getting told the whole truth when they bought

554
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 1: some big figures. In this debate, people who are trying

555
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 1: to limit access on things that have always that people

556
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,239
Speaker 1: have always accessed. We see the names, yeah, I mean

557
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: Charles Schwab, Charles Schwab, Jim Kennedy. I mean those are

558
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: the two biggest ones. But he's part of the Cox Communications.

559
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 1: He's got Sailor Lane was the big Sailor lane. Yeah,

560
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 1: over down and off the Ruby. And so I think

561
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: the like the these are billionaires that have lots of money,

562
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 1: and so, you know, like what they tried to do

563
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 1: in Montana was first they tried to change our stream

564
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: access law. Now the state legislature you know, has all

565
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 1: sorts of hearings that happened over in Helena, and uh,

566
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 1: you know, I think medical marijuana was a big one,

567
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 1: you know, not too long ago, and maybe a hundred

568
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 1: and fifty people show up to that medical marijuana. You

569
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: start talking about when they had a medical marijuana like

570
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 1: hearing everybody like like, you know, there's a hundred fifty

571
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 1: people to show up. That that's kind of a big deal.

572
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 1: Now only for the people who want to smoke weed

573
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 1: and let everybody know they want and want to express

574
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 1: their want to express their No one shows up at

575
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 1: stuff like that. You say, I don't want people to

576
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 1: smoke wheat. There's plenty. There's plenty. Yeah, that's a whole

577
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 1: another because pop get way more excited about want the

578
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 1: smoke weed than they do about not wanting people. So

579
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 1: there's a culture in Montown that would show up to

580
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 1: be like, I don't want it's the it's the root

581
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 1: of all evil for madness. But so like there's a

582
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: hundred people of sho up to that where you think

583
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 1: there maybe even be more, but a stream access hearing

584
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 1: comes up and they can't even hold it where they

585
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 1: want to hold it. They have to have it in

586
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 1: the old Supreme Court chambers because four hundred and fifty

587
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 1: people show up with pitchforks, and now that one it's

588
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 1: like a hundred to one where you have a hundred

589
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: people saying, don't take our access away and one person

590
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 1: saying please, you know, we want it for ourselves. Well

591
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: what's the pitchfork? And the pitchfork is basically saying hell no.

592
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 1: I mean like there couldn't be anything more saying hell no,

593
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna pitch fork a floater or on a pitchfork.

594
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 1: I'm like like like like like you know, like when

595
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 1: when like the mob shows they didn't actually have a

596
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 1: p I'm sorry, yeah, you know you can picture like

597
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 1: at Trump rallies have also it became a thing to

598
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 1: bring a pitchfork with you, right like people everyone's like

599
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 1: you just picture maybe your pitchfork at home. But um

600
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:30,959
Speaker 1: and so like five people show up and so I think,

601
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 1: I just it shows you how much this matters to

602
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 1: Montana's And so we were able to stop them from

603
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 1: changing um any kind of laws. While ago they just

604
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 1: like the last legislative session, they had a build it

605
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 1: was forward that said anything any place that had an

606
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 1: irrigation structure on it was now gonna become awful inness

607
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 1: a stream access and so any kind of structure it

608
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 1: comes off of a river or off of a stream

609
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: that we have access to right now. If it was

610
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 1: anything was being used for irrigation, then we wouldn't have

611
00:33:55,960 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 1: been able to float it. All. Here. Here's my here's

612
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 1: my nightmare right now and nightmbe right now is people

613
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 1: aren't understanding what we're saying. All right, there's really good examples.

614
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:11,719
Speaker 1: That's what I want to talk about because I just

615
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 1: want to clarify something. First off, the laws have traditionally

616
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 1: been interpreted a certain way for the people. And there

617
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 1: are people we named a handful, like like high profile

618
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 1: cases would be landowned by Charles Swab, landowned by Cox,

619
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 1: landowned by other individuals who own land right now, and

620
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 1: they're trying to make it. They're trying to say, let's

621
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 1: step back, get our lawyers involved, and see if we

622
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 1: can find a way to prohibit people from accessing a

623
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 1: stream that they can now access. And one way they

624
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 1: do that is trying to find legal ways to like

625
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 1: legal wrangling methods. So the first thing they try to

626
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 1: do is legislatively. The second thing they try to do

627
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 1: is just legal wrestling that you're talking about, like changing definitions,

628
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 1: are challenging definitive, challenging definitions, goes all the way this

629
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 1: rim court. I think one of the arguments during when

630
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 1: they were in front of the Montana Supreme Court was

631
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:05,840
Speaker 1: as one of the questions was do you want to

632
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 1: change the constitution of Montana And they said yes, Like

633
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 1: that's what they're trying to do is change the constitution,

634
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 1: which is you do by laws. And so there's the

635
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 1: legal side. They've lost the legislative level, they've lost the

636
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 1: least the argument in the legislative legislative level. It's like

637
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 1: a private property taking that should have never been in

638
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 1: the place. It was a taking back in the eighty

639
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,360
Speaker 1: five when it first got established. So they were saying,

640
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,879
Speaker 1: you're taking my private property by letting Joe Sho float

641
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: down the river exactly. But if you look at the U.

642
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 1: S Constitution, the US Constitution has waterways as a means

643
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 1: of travel and says every US citizen has right to

644
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: these thoroughfares. Basically, they're a road as much as the road. Yeah. Again,

645
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 1: no one's arguing that if I go and buy some

646
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 1: land in Missouri in Illinois, that I can shut down

647
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 1: commerce on the Mississippi River, right, correct, you wouldn't get far.

648
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 1: But it's these you know, as you get smaller and

649
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 1: smaller and smaller, people starting to be like, come on,

650
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 1: this is ridiculous. I could throw a rock across this river.

651
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:09,759
Speaker 1: You shouldn't come through it. And to go back to

652
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 1: you and Jimmy and I sitting in the canoe, that

653
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 1: I mean you could Jimmy six years old, get underhand

654
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,479
Speaker 1: rock from bank to bank. We had an incredible time

655
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:23,879
Speaker 1: on that river. And there's a lot of people out

656
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 1: there saying that would say you should have checked with

657
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 1: the landowner. Right, all right, go back though, so they've

658
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 1: tried it legislatively, they've tried to legally like and the

659
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 1: legally was changing the constitution. Yeah, I mean that's what

660
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 1: they have to do. They just saying, like the hell

661
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:39,399
Speaker 1: that if that's the case, let's just rewrite the whole thing.

662
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 1: And so they've lost both those and so now they're

663
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 1: trying to um change the Supreme Court in Montana. So

664
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 1: if you can't win at a legislative label level, which

665
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 1: is basically the people right, you can't do it at

666
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 1: uh at the court level. Now they're trying to do

667
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:55,759
Speaker 1: at the supreme like, at the at the highest level,

668
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:57,360
Speaker 1: so that they can get different judges in there that

669
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 1: will interpret the law in a different way and so

670
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 1: that we uh um, something we have now doesn't give

671
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 1: us the protections that we have on stream access. So

672
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 1: you know, and when you think about the billions of

673
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 1: dollars they have and these guys they don't. They're not

674
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 1: used to losing, right, and so they're not going away.

675
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,320
Speaker 1: And so like right now in Montana, there's a Supreme

676
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,360
Speaker 1: Court race that is vitally important to this whole issue.

677
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 1: Meaning what well, if I mean it's so like I

678
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 1: think I can't think it's five to last time that

679
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 1: this was decided as Montana Supreme Court. So this would

680
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 1: make it four three if this person got in, and

681
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 1: that takes one more and all of a sudden we're tied.

682
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 1: And there are people who be sympathetic to the landowner side. Yes, Hillary,

683
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 1: here's lots of money or at stake. Two, here's a

684
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 1: challenge for you. Give act like you're a land or

685
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 1: wealthy landlord. Give give me his argument. Ah, I agree

686
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 1: with the real estate part of it. When you want

687
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 1: that chunk of Americana for the right reasons, Okay, let's

688
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:55,720
Speaker 1: just say, you know you want to get your family

689
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: out there. GE's beautiful. You've worked really hard all your life.

690
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 1: You know this, you saved up and you you really

691
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 1: want that kind of chunk to pass on to future generations. Right,

692
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:07,719
Speaker 1: So those are reasons who want to be a landowner

693
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 1: in Montana. And you're an honest, hard working kind of person,

694
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 1: and you're going to be a steward of the land

695
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 1: and you're going to take care of it and you're

696
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,359
Speaker 1: not going to even like develop it in rape and pillage. Right,

697
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 1: this is your plan. So you go look and you

698
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 1: find the perfect spot and God, a river runs through it.

699
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,399
Speaker 1: You know, awesome, this is the spot, Marge. We're gonna

700
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,839
Speaker 1: move out here, We're gonna bring all the grandkids, are

701
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 1: gonna come for Christmas. Is gonna be amazing. And then

702
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:34,800
Speaker 1: you buy it. You get sold this, this piece of Americana,

703
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 1: this whole view that you've wanted, you've worked hard all

704
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:40,919
Speaker 1: your life. And you get out there and ship there's

705
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 1: Hillary standing out in the middle of it, looking like

706
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 1: a fish hippie down there to screaming teenage exactly at

707
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 1: all of their homies. Yeah, so you know, and you're like,

708
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 1: this isn't what I signed up for, This isn't what

709
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,879
Speaker 1: I want. What I want, And then you're and you're

710
00:38:57,960 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 1: thinking that the rivers are property. And then the other

711
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,839
Speaker 1: thing that you start to worry about is, oh, my gosh,

712
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:04,399
Speaker 1: what if somebody gets hurt. I'm going to get sued

713
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 1: if somebody gets hurt down there, were somebody drowns down there.

714
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 1: What if, um, you know, what if I want to

715
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 1: fish there later tonight and and they've completely you know,

716
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,240
Speaker 1: swarmouth all my fish. Um, what if they make a mess.

717
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 1: What if they take a dump behind that tree? What

718
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 1: if they all of these things, and you're like, this

719
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 1: isn't fair. That's my backyard, right, my personal opinion about

720
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 1: some of them. No, no now, I'm out of it.

721
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:37,479
Speaker 1: I'm of the lead role, no now now or about

722
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 1: that right. So that's the small scale, you know, person

723
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,839
Speaker 1: who just kind of wants their own chunk for themselves. Um.

724
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 1: But the bigger problem also is those small pieces and

725
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:53,239
Speaker 1: those people add up to bigger picture of like larger

726
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 1: landowner opportunities. Um. And I'm not saying that just the

727
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 1: smaller owner is is Okay, I fighting for stream access,

728
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 1: you know, for the public, um. But all of those

729
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 1: small arguments, for those small five acre plots that have

730
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 1: little bits of river running through, kind of all our

731
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 1: voices that can add together and can can actually hurt

732
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 1: everybody's access and everybody's use. So my argument, um is

733
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,839
Speaker 1: not just about access because pretty much everywhere you go

734
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,239
Speaker 1: you have access, meaning you can access the river. It's

735
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 1: also use. So it's the way we use the river.

736
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 1: Once you access it in a public place, then you

737
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:31,879
Speaker 1: can walk all the way up and down it below

738
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 1: high water mark, and then it's our use. We need

739
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 1: to be able to fish it, we need to be

740
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 1: able to float through we need to be able to

741
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:38,360
Speaker 1: anchor up. We need to be able to have an

742
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 1: amazing shore lunch and all of the activities that I

743
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 1: experience and that I do on public lands. You know,

744
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 1: we see as for the entire population for everybody to

745
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:54,839
Speaker 1: be able to do. Now, what happens when we all

746
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 1: do that together. It has to be out of respect, right,

747
00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 1: So you have to respect the land. You have to

748
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,760
Speaker 1: respect the private land. So if you've got private landowners

749
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:03,879
Speaker 1: on either side, maybe it's the same one who owns

750
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 1: both sides, like you were describing before. And this water

751
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:11,359
Speaker 1: runs through and we have public access at a certain point,

752
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 1: but we've walked down or floated down, fish down, and

753
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 1: we're going through their private property. Um, the water is

754
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 1: ours as a public to use. The fish are all

755
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 1: of ours to share and enjoy, the rocks that are

756
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:27,439
Speaker 1: tumbling and moving all the time, or all of ours

757
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 1: those stream beds. And I want to I want to

758
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 1: point I want to interrupt real quick. Just point out

759
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 1: a thing. The water is owned by the state. The

760
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 1: state doesn't relinquish the water as it flows through your property.

761
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,280
Speaker 1: The fish are owned by the state, and the state

762
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 1: generally will not relinquish the rights of the fish that

763
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:47,360
Speaker 1: are living in the water that they own that's flowing

764
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 1: across your problem exactly. So now if you're the if

765
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:55,240
Speaker 1: you're the private landowner, and you recognize all of these things,

766
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 1: then we have a great partnership, right because you've still

767
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:00,800
Speaker 1: got your land, and then we as fish are and recreators,

768
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 1: are going to respect it. That means, no, you guys,

769
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:05,319
Speaker 1: don't run your dogs up in there. Don't let your

770
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:08,839
Speaker 1: dogs go running up above high water mark. Don't make

771
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 1: a big camp. You know that's going to potentially have

772
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 1: um wildfires that could go up into their property unless

773
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 1: you're really certain that you're in an actual legal spot.

774
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 1: You know, be really respectful of those private landowners as

775
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 1: we use what is our right. You know, it is

776
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 1: our right to use this waterway and um and have

777
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 1: a blast. But god, you know, I mean, we have

778
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 1: to really respect ourselves by respecting those private landown Yeah.

779
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 1: And you know, it's unfortunate because I hate to see

780
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 1: people mess it up. And and it's one of the

781
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 1: things I see happen is is we're floating along, you know,

782
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 1: and if I'm guiding and and I've been guiding the

783
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 1: same stretch of river for a long time, you know,

784
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 1: up in the middle Fork in nayak As, you know

785
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 1: cal if If you haven't been there in a little

786
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 1: while and you float now you see these big private

787
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 1: property signs that there never were before because there are

788
00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 1: sections of private property along there, and it's always in

789
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:02,840
Speaker 1: private um in a couple of these stretches, you know.

790
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:05,400
Speaker 1: But we've always had the ability to float through. We

791
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 1: still can. But when you see those private property signs,

792
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, shoot, somebody must have messed up. One

793
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 1: of us must have gone up there and pick tuckleberries

794
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:15,319
Speaker 1: on their property. One of us must have like run

795
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 1: our dogs up there. Something happened to piss those guys off.

796
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 1: Or maybe it's just fear. Maybe they are new landowners

797
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:25,279
Speaker 1: there and maybe they're afraid that we're going to So

798
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 1: it's important for two reasons. We now can make it

799
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 1: right by making sure that we do the right thing now,

800
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 1: and then also be telling people that this is a partnership.

801
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 1: This you know, you've got your land you worked hard for,

802
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:40,239
Speaker 1: you know you own it. We all together own this

803
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 1: um water, in this fish and in the rocks, and

804
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:44,799
Speaker 1: we can work together on it. I sound like a

805
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 1: diplomat but I'm not a mid know. I appreciate what

806
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 1: you're saying. I think it's important to point out what

807
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:53,400
Speaker 1: I when I used to butt up most sort of

808
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 1: my crash courses, stream access and my crash course and

809
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 1: landowner relationships came when we used to do a lot

810
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 1: of floating for some geese. Okay, and remember early on

811
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 1: when we got interested in floating rivers for ducks and geese,

812
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:09,479
Speaker 1: like rivers that flew up through ranch land. I called trust.

813
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:11,440
Speaker 1: We were gonna get away from Montana real quick here,

814
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 1: but this happened in Montana. I called fishing game. And uh,

815
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 1: I was saying, Okay, so fella can float the bitter route.

816
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 1: I understand. Um, we're gonna float down and jump shoot

817
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 1: pass shoot for ducks and geese. What are kind of

818
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 1: things that were up against you know, like for instance,

819
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 1: and where I grew up in Michigan. I can't remember

820
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 1: what it is, but you can't fire a gun within

821
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 1: four fifty or some odd feet of a structure on

822
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 1: someone's land. So even if you're on your own land,

823
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:45,760
Speaker 1: if your if your neighbor's place is within that distance

824
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:47,840
Speaker 1: of your border, you gotta get written permission from that

825
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 1: neighbor before you fire off a firearm, no matter what

826
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 1: direction you're aimed at. I was just curious, is there

827
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 1: anything like that going on you? Yeah? I was told

828
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:58,880
Speaker 1: there that the only problem I could foresee is that

829
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 1: you hit someone's hog use. If you hit someone's house

830
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 1: with your shotgun, that's negligence, and that is that that's

831
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 1: a problem for you. But no, go for it. So

832
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 1: we start doing a lot of floating for ducks and geese.

833
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 1: And one day we're putting in at illegal access on

834
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:17,399
Speaker 1: East Gallaton fixing the float through there, and a guy

835
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 1: comes racing up to tell us that we had gotten ourselves.

836
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 1: He was the landowner, and to explain that we were

837
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 1: in a catch twenty two. He was saying, uh, I'm

838
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:32,360
Speaker 1: watching you when you hit a duck down and it

839
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:35,399
Speaker 1: lands on my land. If you go to get that duck,

840
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:38,360
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get you for trespassing. If you don't go

841
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 1: and get that duck, I'm gonna call in for wanting waste.

842
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 1: So watch it. And we always are real careful about

843
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 1: not tipping ducks around the guy's property. But that that

844
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:49,240
Speaker 1: was the first time I ever started really getting into

845
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 1: that that use thing. And again for him. Imagine he's

846
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 1: motivated by a handful of things. Maybe the guy likes

847
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 1: to hunt ducks, and just on a purely selfish level,

848
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 1: he just kind of piste off that at uh, that

849
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 1: he can't have this private supply of ducks. Maybe at

850
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:08,240
Speaker 1: another level, he's piste off for watching guys sending ducks

851
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 1: sailing off into his alf alpha field and they don't

852
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:13,840
Speaker 1: go pick it up because they're afraid to go trespass.

853
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:17,520
Speaker 1: And he sees like some like real wasteful activity and

854
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 1: might wonder why the hell would you float such a

855
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 1: small river that you can't go retrieve birds off of

856
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:25,760
Speaker 1: without trespassing on my land and then leave like cripple

857
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:30,840
Speaker 1: ducks laying around. It's outrageous just because someone is I

858
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:32,680
Speaker 1: just pointing out, like, like, you know, just because almost

859
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:35,439
Speaker 1: opposed to stream axis might be based off of various things.

860
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:37,759
Speaker 1: I don't want to to sell it as this like

861
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 1: rich versus poor kind of thing, which is tempting to

862
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 1: do when so many of the most vocal critics of

863
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 1: stream access happened to be billionaires who are coming from

864
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 1: out other cultures into a place and being a little

865
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 1: bit baffled by what goes on a lot of the

866
00:46:57,080 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 1: helme owners don't know. I mean, that's that's a bottom line.

867
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:02,280
Speaker 1: A lot of them don't know that it's not theirs.

868
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 1: They bought this and they don't know. And I've spent

869
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:06,840
Speaker 1: a lot of time in Utah with my friends I

870
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:09,400
Speaker 1: fish with their kind of going door to door even

871
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 1: though we know we're going in a legal spot, and

872
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:15,040
Speaker 1: that spots, you know, the provo and the we were

873
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 1: have just been pushed down because so much public use

874
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:21,040
Speaker 1: has been locked down. And so now when there is

875
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:23,239
Speaker 1: a public spot and you go in there, you talk

876
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:25,719
Speaker 1: to the homeowners around it just to chit chat with

877
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 1: them and see if they know what's up. They know

878
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 1: the laws, and every time it's appealed, then everybody gets confused.

879
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:34,840
Speaker 1: And you know, in a new one mile piece of

880
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:37,319
Speaker 1: water opens and then that gets appealed and shut down

881
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 1: and open, there's a lot of confusion that goes on

882
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:41,240
Speaker 1: around it. Like you were just saying with the show,

883
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 1: you know, people are like, ah, what's going on? Which

884
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:46,360
Speaker 1: is kind of why back Country Hunters and Anglers is

885
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:49,840
Speaker 1: is really focused right now on putting together one place

886
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:52,880
Speaker 1: where everybody can go to learn about what laws are

887
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 1: applicable where you live. Yeah, which is a great resource.

888
00:47:55,600 --> 00:48:00,719
Speaker 1: And and sego because what's that river in Virginia Jackson? Okay,

889
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 1: this is an interesting river. Now I'm gonna lay. I'm

890
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:05,080
Speaker 1: gonna lay some groundward. You tell me when I mess up,

891
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 1: and I'll tell you when I run out of stuff.

892
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 1: I know about. Jackson River in Virginia was a warm

893
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:18,880
Speaker 1: water river, warmwater stream. They put in a big tailwater damn. Correct,

894
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:20,920
Speaker 1: putting a damn that created a tailwater. Putting a dam

895
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:23,239
Speaker 1: that created a tailwater. What a tailwater is is where

896
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 1: you build a dam and you be a big empoundment

897
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 1: of water. Now, when you impound water, have a lake,

898
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:31,760
Speaker 1: the water at the surface tends to be much warmer

899
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:34,120
Speaker 1: than the water down below, as is known to anyone

900
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 1: who's ever been swimming and dived down to the bottom

901
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:40,400
Speaker 1: and it gets real cold all of a sudden. A

902
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 1: tailwater instead of drawing, instead of releasing water from the surface,

903
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:47,719
Speaker 1: which is like what a beaver pond does right where

904
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 1: the water flows off the top of the beaver dam,

905
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:53,200
Speaker 1: a tailwater releases water from the bottom of the water

906
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 1: column and it sends out cold water. What a tailwater

907
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:00,279
Speaker 1: does by sending out all that cold water. As you

908
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 1: create a cold water fishery, and it allows you to

909
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 1: have cold it allows cold water species to flourish. Trout

910
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:11,759
Speaker 1: like cold well oxygenated water. Tailwaters generally are great for

911
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 1: trout because you're sending continuous cold water year round. It's

912
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 1: not sun baked and all heated up. And you can

913
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 1: have places like the White River in Arkansas the Jackson

914
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:25,480
Speaker 1: River in Virginia that will support great trout fisheries because

915
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:28,239
Speaker 1: the fish are always getting nice cold water no matter

916
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:32,200
Speaker 1: how hot the weather is. This river had never had

917
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 1: a stream access debate. There's just a river people could use.

918
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:40,280
Speaker 1: The tailwater came in and also became a destination trout fishery.

919
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:45,880
Speaker 1: Landowners along the river we're like, man, it would be

920
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 1: sweet if only I could fish east trout. Boomer that

921
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:55,000
Speaker 1: all these other mofos can come down here floating and fishing.

922
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:58,839
Speaker 1: They got to digging around and realize that when King

923
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:04,319
Speaker 1: George the First and King George the Second did some

924
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 1: land grants back in the old timey times, they'd be like, man,

925
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:12,040
Speaker 1: you're a great guy. You've always done great service for us.

926
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:16,359
Speaker 1: Here's a gigantic hunkle land this is pre us, all right,

927
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:19,840
Speaker 1: this is when we were a colony. They would that

928
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:23,360
Speaker 1: when he granted, When King George granted chunks of land,

929
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:26,880
Speaker 1: this sort of initiated the idea of private property ownership

930
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:29,840
Speaker 1: in the US. He pointed out that you own the

931
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:35,840
Speaker 1: whole damn river and everything that's in it. So based

932
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:38,239
Speaker 1: on that, now that there's something in there that I

933
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 1: really want, based on that, we're gonna get together and

934
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 1: make a play to say no one can access the

935
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:48,800
Speaker 1: Jackson River of Virginia except private landowners along the banks.

936
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:53,960
Speaker 1: It's so complicated, if I understand, it's correct that the

937
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 1: fishing game in Virginia. Rather than trying to clarify the

938
00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:01,799
Speaker 1: issue it's so complicated, they just alert anglers and floaters

939
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:06,960
Speaker 1: to the fact that you may encounter landowners who are

940
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:09,799
Speaker 1: making certain claims. We don't know what to tell you.

941
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:13,880
Speaker 1: Break that all down well, and I think it's it's gone.

942
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:16,280
Speaker 1: Like there's been a lawsuit over it. There wasn't actually

943
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 1: a kayaker who got like busted by one of these

944
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 1: landowners and they said he was trespassing. So they there

945
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:24,319
Speaker 1: was a lawsuit over that to try to find him

946
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:27,840
Speaker 1: for trespassing. And uh, this is only gone from what

947
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:31,360
Speaker 1: I know, it's only gone to one level um of judge,

948
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:34,319
Speaker 1: and that judge side with a landowner. And so right now,

949
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:39,440
Speaker 1: like that area is closed down to fishing to float

950
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:42,759
Speaker 1: into anything. And so like to me, though, Steve, like

951
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:44,919
Speaker 1: that's that's what we were trying to get away from

952
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 1: when we created America, right And like when you think

953
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:51,520
Speaker 1: about like the um, like we established this country to

954
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:53,240
Speaker 1: where the water belong to the people, in the wildlife

955
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 1: belonging the people, you've already you know, we've talked about

956
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:56,920
Speaker 1: that earlier, and you know, the States kind of as

957
00:51:56,920 --> 00:51:59,120
Speaker 1: our manager of that. And and to me, that flies

958
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:00,479
Speaker 1: in the face of that. And so I I think

959
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:04,279
Speaker 1: if somebody challenges that up to a higher court, I

960
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:06,759
Speaker 1: think we will win that one, because when I start

961
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 1: hearing King's grants from the sevent hundreds, I'm like, that's

962
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:13,600
Speaker 1: what we revolted against, you know, like that stuff doesn't

963
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 1: matter anymore because it did then, like the East Coast

964
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 1: would look a lot different than it does right now.

965
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 1: GG doesn't get to do that. So I like, like,

966
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:22,680
Speaker 1: to me, I think that one will be challenged and

967
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:26,399
Speaker 1: will win. Um. But right now it's definitely a confusing piece. Yeah,

968
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:29,880
Speaker 1: as far as the the way, you know, the the

969
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 1: European system in the American system. So the European system

970
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 1: um goes back to like think of Robin Hood, right,

971
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 1: Robin Hood was a was a poacher because the king

972
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 1: on the wildlife and Robin Hood would go out and

973
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:46,440
Speaker 1: hunt and you could get in a lot of trouble

974
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:51,480
Speaker 1: for hunting in England and other places because wildlife only

975
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:56,279
Speaker 1: belonged to wealthy landowners. The US is a direct repudiation

976
00:52:56,320 --> 00:53:00,799
Speaker 1: of that system, where we have an excellent arguably and

977
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:04,399
Speaker 1: I'm not just saying this because I'm American. We have

978
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:10,520
Speaker 1: the best wildlife management system in the world, which has

979
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:14,440
Speaker 1: been proven again and again um to to work very well.

980
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:17,840
Speaker 1: And we have what's called public ownership of wildlife. Wildlife

981
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 1: is held in a public domain, meaning that if a

982
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:26,880
Speaker 1: trout is swimming in the river, it doesn't matter whose

983
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:31,520
Speaker 1: land he crosses. He remains the property of the people

984
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 1: of that state, the public. Um. If an elk jumps,

985
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 1: If an elk is in Yelloso National Park and he

986
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:42,600
Speaker 1: jumps a fence and goes onto National forest land, and

987
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 1: he jumps another fence and goes onto BLM land, and

988
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 1: he jumps another fence and goes onto a private ranch,

989
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:51,399
Speaker 1: and jumps another fence and becomes into a municipal park.

990
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:55,200
Speaker 1: Throughout all of his wanderings, he has remained a possession

991
00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 1: of the people. Now, you might be able to control

992
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:03,000
Speaker 1: access to that elk, but you never take ownership of

993
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 1: that elk. So one thing that's at stake when we're

994
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:09,520
Speaker 1: talking about access to waterways is it's a way. It's

995
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 1: a tool by which people can come in and try

996
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:18,400
Speaker 1: to subvert our system and try to take ownership of

997
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:24,839
Speaker 1: wildlife resources that belong to the American people. It's just

998
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:27,040
Speaker 1: it's just one of many tools in a tool bag

999
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:31,719
Speaker 1: that you can use to claim something that traditionally is

1000
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:39,960
Speaker 1: not yours to claim. No, tell you about another river, um,

1001
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:41,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's a good story from a

1002
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:45,360
Speaker 1: Missouri river, right, not the Missouri River, but ver I

1003
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:48,600
Speaker 1: think like the story of Missouri is about all their rivers.

1004
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 1: I mean, I think you know a lot of people

1005
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:51,920
Speaker 1: think that this is just a Western issue. Yeah, That's

1006
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:54,279
Speaker 1: what I'm trying to get away from because growing up

1007
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:56,680
Speaker 1: in Michigan, I remember one time when I used to

1008
00:54:56,760 --> 00:55:00,239
Speaker 1: run mink traps. I was at Cedar Creek where one

1009
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:03,600
Speaker 1: twenty across the Cedar Creek and Cedar Creeks a navigable river,

1010
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:07,040
Speaker 1: and I remember having uh D n R officer, like

1011
00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 1: a basically a fishing game officer come and and tell

1012
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:15,239
Speaker 1: me that I had to pull my mink traps on

1013
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:19,840
Speaker 1: the upstream side of the bridge because downstream side was

1014
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:23,320
Speaker 1: Manaestee National Forest, upstream was private ownership. I would jump

1015
00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:26,920
Speaker 1: into the creek on the Mannaestee National Forest side, go

1016
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 1: underneath the bridge and waiters, and then set mink traps

1017
00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:33,160
Speaker 1: in the water on the upstream side, which I knew

1018
00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:36,120
Speaker 1: to be legal. He was confused about the issue and

1019
00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:37,799
Speaker 1: told me that I wasn't actually allowed to do that.

1020
00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:40,440
Speaker 1: I had to stay on the downstream side, even though

1021
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:44,319
Speaker 1: it's a legally navigable river. So was my point there.

1022
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 1: I think you're trying to say it is not a

1023
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:48,480
Speaker 1: Western issue. So here I am a dude traviling mink

1024
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:51,479
Speaker 1: in Michigan having the same conversation. But for some reason,

1025
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:53,279
Speaker 1: it's become like I don't know why it's become a West,

1026
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:56,440
Speaker 1: why it's dan why it's perceived as the Western issue.

1027
00:55:56,760 --> 00:55:58,719
Speaker 1: When we got like Virginia and we got what you're

1028
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:01,080
Speaker 1: gonna talk about, aream. And they've tried to do the

1029
00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:02,919
Speaker 1: same thing they've tried to do in Montana is changed

1030
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:05,520
Speaker 1: the laws. And so in Missouri you do have the

1031
00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:08,560
Speaker 1: right to wait up to the high water mark in Missouri.

1032
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:11,120
Speaker 1: And so there's been two attempts now at their legislature

1033
00:56:11,239 --> 00:56:14,120
Speaker 1: to repeal that and change the law. And so the

1034
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:18,040
Speaker 1: people once again in Missouri and show me state stood

1035
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:21,680
Speaker 1: up and said no, not here. And so that said,

1036
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:25,640
Speaker 1: these folks aren't going away, you know, I mean, they

1037
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:27,600
Speaker 1: want to kind of take this this stuff for themselves.

1038
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:29,000
Speaker 1: And so I think that's one of the things, is

1039
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:31,480
Speaker 1: like this vigilance, like I mean it. And and we've

1040
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:33,520
Speaker 1: talked about this before on on the whole public lands

1041
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:37,520
Speaker 1: divester issue, is that we're a very young country and

1042
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:40,000
Speaker 1: there's been folks trying to take things for themselves ever

1043
00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:43,320
Speaker 1: since Roosevelt kind of, you know, started this whole idea

1044
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:46,719
Speaker 1: of the land belongs to the people, and and there

1045
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:50,680
Speaker 1: was stuff that happened before that too. But the reason

1046
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:52,960
Speaker 1: we still have public lands and public hands, and the

1047
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:55,359
Speaker 1: reason we still have stream access is because countless people

1048
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:57,759
Speaker 1: have stepped up and said that's not, that's not what

1049
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:00,200
Speaker 1: America is. America was established in a different play us

1050
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:02,080
Speaker 1: or in a different way, just how you described it.

1051
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:05,600
Speaker 1: How it's different from the European model, right, and so um,

1052
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:08,160
Speaker 1: these are these things will continue to happen. But in Missouri, Yeah,

1053
00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:11,000
Speaker 1: I mean it's that there's definitely an attack on um

1054
00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:13,759
Speaker 1: uh stream access and that we're able to push it down,

1055
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:15,440
Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean it's not gonna come back again.

1056
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:18,160
Speaker 1: Cal And what do you think about all this? I

1057
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:22,080
Speaker 1: got a case in New York State. Oh okay, Uh,

1058
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:27,120
Speaker 1: this information comes from by a beautiful, young, smart attorney

1059
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:30,560
Speaker 1: in Helena, Montana. Used the date. Yes, what happened there? Like?

1060
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:33,160
Speaker 1: Why did that relationship network? Oh? Like I said, we

1061
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:36,360
Speaker 1: just uh, you know, grew apart. You know, part of

1062
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:38,600
Speaker 1: it is this bird dog that she didn't train to

1063
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:41,640
Speaker 1: hunt birds. And I just can't wrap my head around that.

1064
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:44,640
Speaker 1: And that caused the rift of your relationship. Yeah, things

1065
00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:48,600
Speaker 1: can kind of separated from there. Uh And you called

1066
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:51,880
Speaker 1: her up and and or send her some sort of message. Yeah, yea,

1067
00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:55,840
Speaker 1: so she did some some bird dogging she married now, Uh, no, no,

1068
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:58,920
Speaker 1: she is not what do you guys, taxes or any innuendo.

1069
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:01,560
Speaker 1: Oh but that's just kind of her sounse of humor.

1070
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 1: There's no chance that's going to get going again. You know,

1071
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:08,000
Speaker 1: I don't think so. I think I've burned that bridge

1072
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:14,800
Speaker 1: down at right now, let's think about that. Yeah, she's

1073
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:18,320
Speaker 1: an environmental lawyer. Yeah, she wants all of it. Yeah,

1074
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:22,880
Speaker 1: And what's the get what's what's what's the New York

1075
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:27,040
Speaker 1: state deal? Okay? So um two thousand thirteen, Access was

1076
00:58:27,120 --> 00:58:32,480
Speaker 1: challenging New York um and a man's canoeing down a

1077
00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:38,960
Speaker 1: navigable waterway, yes, to portage his canoe. That portage takes

1078
00:58:39,040 --> 00:58:43,080
Speaker 1: him across land that is posted for no trespassing landowner

1079
00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:46,320
Speaker 1: because of a beaver dam or whatever. Yeah, log in

1080
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 1: the river some sort of obstruction, and uh so the

1081
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:56,440
Speaker 1: landowner sues or you know, uh tries to dig this

1082
00:58:56,480 --> 00:58:59,919
Speaker 1: guy for no trespassing. He brings up the navigable wall

1083
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:02,600
Speaker 1: a way in the U. S. Constitution says that you

1084
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:06,720
Speaker 1: can use uh land even above the high water mark

1085
00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 1: to get around obstructions to navigate this thoroughfare. Essentially, two

1086
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:19,440
Speaker 1: thousand sixteen, uh, New York Supreme Court declines to rule. So,

1087
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:24,480
Speaker 1: uh what happens is since they declined to rule. Um,

1088
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:28,800
Speaker 1: the you know, the predetermined laws stand, which means you

1089
00:59:28,840 --> 00:59:34,600
Speaker 1: can trustpass on somebody's land to continue your travel. If

1090
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:37,479
Speaker 1: a log or be ver damn or whatever, you can't

1091
00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:41,120
Speaker 1: hang out there, you just have to keep going. Correct. Yeah,

1092
00:59:41,120 --> 00:59:44,520
Speaker 1: I read this morning that portaging because it's it falls

1093
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:51,440
Speaker 1: under something you would do while boating, hunting, fishing, whatever,

1094
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:55,480
Speaker 1: that would then be encompassed in using that waterway, and

1095
00:59:55,520 --> 00:59:59,160
Speaker 1: so it would fall under legal use. And the right

1096
00:59:59,200 --> 01:00:05,920
Speaker 1: to navigate includes the necessary incidental use of bed and banks. Oh, now,

1097
01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:09,480
Speaker 1: Yahn's explain like when when you're working, because every state

1098
01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:12,080
Speaker 1: is different, explain the situation in Colorado is that where

1099
01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:14,320
Speaker 1: there's weird ship like you can float down the river,

1100
01:00:14,360 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 1: but you can't set the anchor. Yeah, explain that that's weird. Well,

1101
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:20,840
Speaker 1: And I think that's where it does get really tricky

1102
01:00:21,080 --> 01:00:22,920
Speaker 1: on which I was talking about earlier, is because like

1103
01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:26,200
Speaker 1: they have the navigable waterway things figure it out where

1104
01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:28,440
Speaker 1: they're like they can't put a fence across it and

1105
01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:32,600
Speaker 1: keep it from going down it. But Colorado, the state

1106
01:00:32,640 --> 01:00:36,240
Speaker 1: has chosen to say that the land underneath is owned

1107
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:38,760
Speaker 1: by somebody and not by the people and so if

1108
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:40,760
Speaker 1: you own just the water z owned by the people,

1109
01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:43,919
Speaker 1: not the not the vessel holding the water exactly, even

1110
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:46,360
Speaker 1: though all these rocks are tumbling down. Yeah, I've never

1111
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:48,040
Speaker 1: thought about that. You made a good point. It's like

1112
01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:50,600
Speaker 1: that river bed is just constantly changing, like your rock

1113
01:00:50,680 --> 01:00:53,440
Speaker 1: is on the neighbor's rock or the neighbor's property, you

1114
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:57,240
Speaker 1: know everything. I'd be out there being like something nothing

1115
01:00:57,360 --> 01:01:01,280
Speaker 1: rolled down to your land. Yeah. So no man, we uh,

1116
01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:02,520
Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys have to do that

1117
01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:05,240
Speaker 1: guy in here in Montana, but in Colorado. I mean

1118
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:07,840
Speaker 1: there's this tricky do with your raft is you're pulling

1119
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:10,919
Speaker 1: behind you would know every single rock that had just

1120
01:01:11,120 --> 01:01:14,120
Speaker 1: enough like reverse current where you could pull in and

1121
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:17,280
Speaker 1: you had to re ray everybody. You get way too far, sorry,

1122
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:20,200
Speaker 1: explain the problem. Oh yeah, So you're floating down these

1123
01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:23,200
Speaker 1: rivers that you want to fish, and it's private land

1124
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:28,600
Speaker 1: on both sides, both sides. And the rivers, uh, the

1125
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:31,959
Speaker 1: Eagle River, the Calbado rivers, they're going fork. It doesn't

1126
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:35,160
Speaker 1: matter anyone. You're floating in that state, big famous rivers. Yeah,

1127
01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:38,160
Speaker 1: if you're going through private property, you cannot anchor you

1128
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:41,200
Speaker 1: can't pull over. Can't wait, you can't wait. You can't

1129
01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:43,160
Speaker 1: get out of the boat. You can't even stick your

1130
01:01:43,160 --> 01:01:46,800
Speaker 1: boat onto a rock to stop. You can't push pole,

1131
01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:52,320
Speaker 1: you can't push pole, you can't grab willow branches, hold

1132
01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:56,360
Speaker 1: yourself in place. Nothing, Just you in the water. That's it.

1133
01:01:56,360 --> 01:01:58,080
Speaker 1: That's the only So you can't beat up on a

1134
01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:01,600
Speaker 1: rock that's out in the river because you're using that

1135
01:02:01,680 --> 01:02:03,520
Speaker 1: dudes rock. Yeah, So what we would learn how to

1136
01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:05,680
Speaker 1: do is you'd find just the right rock that had

1137
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:09,600
Speaker 1: just enough eddie for like twelve and a half foot

1138
01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:12,560
Speaker 1: super puma, and you pull in there and you'd have

1139
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:15,640
Speaker 1: the guy actually in the back looking down and be like,

1140
01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:17,320
Speaker 1: let me know if I'm bumping that thing, and you'd

1141
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:19,800
Speaker 1: sit there and like, just do these little feather strokes

1142
01:02:19,840 --> 01:02:22,320
Speaker 1: and drop your awards underneath your knees. Tie tie tie

1143
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:24,640
Speaker 1: tie tie. Put him back a couple of feather strokes,

1144
01:02:24,640 --> 01:02:27,439
Speaker 1: tie tie tie tie tie. He took up on the bank,

1145
01:02:27,480 --> 01:02:29,000
Speaker 1: and there'd be the dude on the a TV just

1146
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:32,160
Speaker 1: sitting there watching, just waiting, and he knew who I was,

1147
01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:33,760
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, he just he'd had a cell

1148
01:02:33,760 --> 01:02:37,520
Speaker 1: phone and be calling the shop, you know, on that

1149
01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:40,840
Speaker 1: rock again, just passing. You pee off the boat. They

1150
01:02:40,840 --> 01:02:43,400
Speaker 1: have to pee off the boat. Oh, they can't climb

1151
01:02:43,440 --> 01:02:45,760
Speaker 1: up on the bank to pee. You know, we were

1152
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:47,680
Speaker 1: when we were fished this week. Our our boat was

1153
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:49,800
Speaker 1: so filthy. I had my boy peeing right into the boat.

1154
01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:53,080
Speaker 1: I was like, hurt anything now, man, it's a boastal

1155
01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:56,720
Speaker 1: full of slide and drink some more water we clean

1156
01:02:56,880 --> 01:02:59,120
Speaker 1: to clean this thing. First, I had them peeing over

1157
01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:00,520
Speaker 1: the edge, but it was so way be ap phrasing

1158
01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:02,000
Speaker 1: and fall over and I had a pet at the bucket.

1159
01:03:02,040 --> 01:03:04,680
Speaker 1: That's them. I just go ahead. There's a lot of

1160
01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:08,280
Speaker 1: very defined systems up there for the fish shack is

1161
01:03:08,480 --> 01:03:12,080
Speaker 1: you well know. And whenever one of those systems like

1162
01:03:12,280 --> 01:03:16,520
Speaker 1: falls apart, it's so apparent as to why you bring

1163
01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:20,000
Speaker 1: x amount of buckets a cooler, Yeah, scrub brush out

1164
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:22,160
Speaker 1: of stuff like that. Was one time he was whizzing

1165
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:24,840
Speaker 1: in the boat and Callian picked up all the basketfull

1166
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:27,360
Speaker 1: of perforated basket full of shrimp tails and moved it

1167
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:31,600
Speaker 1: up to a seat, which all right, we had about

1168
01:03:31,600 --> 01:03:35,760
Speaker 1: three inches of muddy guts blood water in the bottom

1169
01:03:35,800 --> 01:03:37,360
Speaker 1: of the boat. And He's like, hold on, I gotta

1170
01:03:37,400 --> 01:03:41,120
Speaker 1: bean Steve and I are cleaning trimp right there, and

1171
01:03:41,160 --> 01:03:43,840
Speaker 1: it's a laundry basket full of the shrimp knots and

1172
01:03:44,120 --> 01:03:48,520
Speaker 1: laundry basket, a perforated basket. It's like, yeah, it was

1173
01:03:48,560 --> 01:03:51,919
Speaker 1: not they sell them. It's a fishing basket. He found

1174
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:55,800
Speaker 1: that one beach comb. Oh nice, but yeah, it looks

1175
01:03:55,880 --> 01:04:03,080
Speaker 1: just like a laundry basket. You have never found basket that. Yeah, yeah,

1176
01:04:03,720 --> 01:04:07,120
Speaker 1: six times more expensive. He whizzes into the six inches

1177
01:04:07,160 --> 01:04:11,480
Speaker 1: of filth and killian, then picks up the trenches like, oh,

1178
01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:14,040
Speaker 1: that's what's gonna gross you out. It's not that it's

1179
01:04:14,120 --> 01:04:19,960
Speaker 1: bull of rotten. You make concessions. Okay, So why was

1180
01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:22,240
Speaker 1: I talking about Colorado? You can get on the bank,

1181
01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:24,480
Speaker 1: can't get on the bank. I was gonna say. It's

1182
01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:27,880
Speaker 1: like it was always just like a minor issue on

1183
01:04:28,040 --> 01:04:30,800
Speaker 1: most rivers. But as soon as like the Blue River

1184
01:04:31,360 --> 01:04:36,720
Speaker 1: below Green Mountain Reservoir, giant private ranch down below, there

1185
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:40,480
Speaker 1: gets a bunch of giant fish stocked into it that

1186
01:04:40,560 --> 01:04:44,080
Speaker 1: are fed and like words, getting how are they stocking

1187
01:04:44,080 --> 01:04:48,440
Speaker 1: and feeding fish? The Gunnison's like that too, the upper Well,

1188
01:04:48,480 --> 01:04:51,000
Speaker 1: so how do they know the fish are gonna get away?

1189
01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:53,320
Speaker 1: Like in Texas they got that shipped down. I don't

1190
01:04:53,360 --> 01:04:56,640
Speaker 1: think they care. I think this is my primary stock.

1191
01:04:57,040 --> 01:05:00,400
Speaker 1: They can you can feed fish in the river. M hmm.

1192
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:02,840
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know about all plays. I

1193
01:05:02,880 --> 01:05:04,600
Speaker 1: don't know if you can do that in Montana or

1194
01:05:04,640 --> 01:05:08,280
Speaker 1: even here. And I've never heard of that. No, the

1195
01:05:08,320 --> 01:05:11,360
Speaker 1: bucket brigade kind of thing in Glacier National Park is

1196
01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:17,400
Speaker 1: largely frowned upon. Do not plant fish in my zone. Yeah,

1197
01:05:17,480 --> 01:05:20,000
Speaker 1: it's a bummer on the you know, on the first

1198
01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:21,960
Speaker 1: time ever you're fishing the Gun of San, I expected

1199
01:05:22,000 --> 01:05:24,880
Speaker 1: to be a madhouse. I was down there visiting some

1200
01:05:24,920 --> 01:05:28,280
Speaker 1: shops for work, swunging to fish with the old yellow dog,

1201
01:05:28,360 --> 01:05:35,320
Speaker 1: and um, who's that? We literally my dog guy never

1202
01:05:35,360 --> 01:05:38,480
Speaker 1: heard of No, no, no, And uh, I'm fishing way

1203
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:41,040
Speaker 1: and everything's great. And then I catched this fish that

1204
01:05:41,160 --> 01:05:46,200
Speaker 1: is so obviously a like a pen raised, you know,

1205
01:05:46,240 --> 01:05:52,040
Speaker 1: a super round nose, nubby little stock er. Look, pellet head, yeah,

1206
01:05:52,280 --> 01:05:55,440
Speaker 1: pellet fed. You know, I'm just like, what is you know,

1207
01:05:55,440 --> 01:06:00,680
Speaker 1: I kind of killed that stuff. This guy or his

1208
01:06:01,160 --> 01:06:03,760
Speaker 1: manager on this ranch. Sometimes when they were trying to

1209
01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:05,800
Speaker 1: like push back a little bit, they would know like

1210
01:06:05,840 --> 01:06:07,960
Speaker 1: because you can only floated at certain levels, you know,

1211
01:06:08,080 --> 01:06:10,920
Speaker 1: before you just because there's wing damns, all all these

1212
01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:14,400
Speaker 1: river improvements to make pools, and so when it got

1213
01:06:14,440 --> 01:06:17,240
Speaker 1: too low, just too dangerous to drop the boats over

1214
01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:20,360
Speaker 1: these damns. But so they would know, like, Okay, the

1215
01:06:20,440 --> 01:06:22,600
Speaker 1: river's coming up, they're gonna release water's gonna be a

1216
01:06:22,600 --> 01:06:24,520
Speaker 1: bunch of fish, a bunch of guys coming down to

1217
01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:27,720
Speaker 1: fish it. They would just power feed these fish for

1218
01:06:27,840 --> 01:06:30,400
Speaker 1: days ahead of time, so that when you floated through there,

1219
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:33,040
Speaker 1: I mean you can see them all sitting on giant,

1220
01:06:34,840 --> 01:06:40,600
Speaker 1: totally full bellies. You're kidding The story I like, is

1221
01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:47,560
Speaker 1: this dude, Uh, this was in the back Country Hunters magazine.

1222
01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:52,160
Speaker 1: This dude was selling what state was this in? That

1223
01:06:52,200 --> 01:06:55,560
Speaker 1: he was selling exclusive access on a stream? So it's

1224
01:06:55,560 --> 01:07:00,479
Speaker 1: like a developer who's selling exclusive access on the street.

1225
01:07:00,480 --> 01:07:04,480
Speaker 1: That was that was Virginia. That's Virginia. No it's not.

1226
01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:06,280
Speaker 1: I know that was happening in Virginia too, but maybe

1227
01:07:06,280 --> 01:07:11,360
Speaker 1: it was Utah. I should know that. I felt like

1228
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:14,400
Speaker 1: that was on. Wasn't it the provo or a tributary

1229
01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:22,680
Speaker 1: to the Provoeah? For sure? He yeah, so he sells

1230
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:24,920
Speaker 1: he's got a developer gets his chunk of property and

1231
01:07:24,960 --> 01:07:28,480
Speaker 1: he tells people you're buying exclusive access. It turns out

1232
01:07:28,480 --> 01:07:33,720
Speaker 1: it's not. It's public access. So the people get pissed

1233
01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:36,040
Speaker 1: at the guy they bought the land from. The guy

1234
01:07:36,080 --> 01:07:38,439
Speaker 1: that bought the land from turns the developer turns around

1235
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:41,680
Speaker 1: and sues some other dude for having messed this whole

1236
01:07:41,720 --> 01:07:46,200
Speaker 1: thing up. I mean, that's the whole thing Victory Ranch

1237
01:07:46,320 --> 01:07:49,840
Speaker 1: up in Utah. I mean it's a development, right, so

1238
01:07:50,040 --> 01:07:55,360
Speaker 1: this is the place. Well, um, I think one of

1239
01:07:55,360 --> 01:07:59,120
Speaker 1: the main things is if it's a development, you aren't

1240
01:07:59,160 --> 01:08:01,760
Speaker 1: doing your own rece arch necessarily on that area. It's

1241
01:08:01,800 --> 01:08:04,840
Speaker 1: almost like in a lot of these kind of large subdivisions,

1242
01:08:04,840 --> 01:08:07,760
Speaker 1: you have these amenities that are just described to you, right,

1243
01:08:07,800 --> 01:08:10,320
Speaker 1: and that kind of to use one of the amenities.

1244
01:08:11,080 --> 01:08:13,720
Speaker 1: If you're doing your own research, you look into what

1245
01:08:13,800 --> 01:08:16,519
Speaker 1: river you're buying your property on. But if it's a

1246
01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:19,560
Speaker 1: big subdivision, you just know it's kind of one of

1247
01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:22,320
Speaker 1: the things. Like, for example, we also there's this like

1248
01:08:22,400 --> 01:08:25,000
Speaker 1: big orchard over here, and like we're gonna put like

1249
01:08:25,240 --> 01:08:27,200
Speaker 1: this big group swimming pool in the middle, and now

1250
01:08:27,240 --> 01:08:29,920
Speaker 1: there's a river here. There's all these amenities, right, And

1251
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:32,200
Speaker 1: so I think a lot of these people, um, we're

1252
01:08:32,240 --> 01:08:34,000
Speaker 1: kind of told that this is just one of those

1253
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:36,800
Speaker 1: basic amenities that you get as part of it, and

1254
01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:41,360
Speaker 1: that was sold to them as exclusive um access in use.

1255
01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:43,439
Speaker 1: But then when it turned out not to be, then

1256
01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:47,840
Speaker 1: they're like, well, let's make it so you know, and

1257
01:08:47,880 --> 01:08:51,759
Speaker 1: they're like, we can't give you your money back. Yeah,

1258
01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:53,600
Speaker 1: And so they start to find out it's not. And

1259
01:08:53,640 --> 01:08:55,840
Speaker 1: it wasn't like just going quietly into the night. It

1260
01:08:55,920 --> 01:08:58,040
Speaker 1: was like, okay, well we're going to fight for to

1261
01:08:58,240 --> 01:09:02,040
Speaker 1: make it as we said otherwise, what how much value

1262
01:09:02,320 --> 01:09:05,000
Speaker 1: is that reducing and whatever it was that they purchased.

1263
01:09:05,479 --> 01:09:07,680
Speaker 1: How much of that was because of the river? Right?

1264
01:09:07,720 --> 01:09:09,559
Speaker 1: So they can't give them money back. They already bought,

1265
01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:12,880
Speaker 1: they already have their landscaping out, they already whatever. And

1266
01:09:13,160 --> 01:09:15,639
Speaker 1: so now instead of just saying, actually, we messed up,

1267
01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:19,559
Speaker 1: they're going let's change the law and let's make it yours.

1268
01:09:21,080 --> 01:09:24,200
Speaker 1: What percent now, as a fishing guide, what percent of

1269
01:09:24,280 --> 01:09:27,840
Speaker 1: the of time do you spend in your in your

1270
01:09:27,960 --> 01:09:31,800
Speaker 1: terrain where you guide? What percent of time do you

1271
01:09:32,200 --> 01:09:38,000
Speaker 1: spend fishing water that is flown through private land? Well

1272
01:09:38,000 --> 01:09:41,280
Speaker 1: a hundred percent of the water on which I guide

1273
01:09:41,439 --> 01:09:43,960
Speaker 1: is public access, public use. So it's the middle fork

1274
01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:46,960
Speaker 1: in the north fork of the Flathead. But River Left

1275
01:09:47,120 --> 01:09:49,759
Speaker 1: on the middle fork, for example, has a significant amount

1276
01:09:49,840 --> 01:09:54,360
Speaker 1: of UM privately owned property. Can so River left is

1277
01:09:54,360 --> 01:09:56,639
Speaker 1: as the river's flowing, everything on your left. So even

1278
01:09:56,640 --> 01:09:58,760
Speaker 1: if you spilp your boat around. Yeah, so if you're

1279
01:09:58,760 --> 01:10:00,960
Speaker 1: looking upstream, river or left is going to be on

1280
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:03,360
Speaker 1: the other side. The river left is always left side

1281
01:10:03,400 --> 01:10:06,320
Speaker 1: as the river flows. River right is always right side

1282
01:10:06,320 --> 01:10:08,320
Speaker 1: as the river flows. So on the middle fork of

1283
01:10:08,360 --> 01:10:12,360
Speaker 1: the Flathead, UM River right ten feet above high water

1284
01:10:12,400 --> 01:10:15,479
Speaker 1: mark technically is Glacier National Park, So that's all national park.

1285
01:10:15,560 --> 01:10:17,360
Speaker 1: So you know that that's all public land. You just

1286
01:10:17,400 --> 01:10:19,679
Speaker 1: know that's what the boundary is as a professional guide

1287
01:10:19,760 --> 01:10:22,160
Speaker 1: and hopefully as a as a private floater as well.

1288
01:10:22,280 --> 01:10:24,479
Speaker 1: It's not a permitted river, so anybody can float it.

1289
01:10:24,760 --> 01:10:28,519
Speaker 1: And then River Left is going to be UM, state, federal,

1290
01:10:28,640 --> 01:10:31,639
Speaker 1: and private land. So it's split up just in different

1291
01:10:31,760 --> 01:10:36,000
Speaker 1: zones based on kind of UM you know, state ownership

1292
01:10:36,080 --> 01:10:39,800
Speaker 1: and it's for service and it's also privately owned and

1293
01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:42,559
Speaker 1: it's important to own Montana. The land owner does not

1294
01:10:43,320 --> 01:10:46,160
Speaker 1: have the responsibility to post that land. It's the user,

1295
01:10:46,320 --> 01:10:49,599
Speaker 1: the person that has the responsibility to know where those

1296
01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:52,360
Speaker 1: boundaries are and where you are as a human being.

1297
01:10:53,280 --> 01:10:54,920
Speaker 1: That's good to get into right there. I want to

1298
01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:57,720
Speaker 1: talk about that, and that's that's complicated, but but it's

1299
01:10:57,760 --> 01:10:59,800
Speaker 1: that's huge. That's what I was saying before. It's our

1300
01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:02,960
Speaker 1: sponsibility as the user to be well educated. Otherwise we're

1301
01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:05,960
Speaker 1: going to get those big bright orange reminders on the trees.

1302
01:11:06,240 --> 01:11:08,479
Speaker 1: And I hate floating down the river guiding my people,

1303
01:11:08,760 --> 01:11:12,439
Speaker 1: and that's what they see, you know, private property. Keep out, dada,

1304
01:11:12,520 --> 01:11:15,840
Speaker 1: because if those are gone, it looks like this, you know,

1305
01:11:16,240 --> 01:11:18,680
Speaker 1: beautiful place that we all know and love and you

1306
01:11:18,760 --> 01:11:21,160
Speaker 1: take your photo and you know, carry on and it's

1307
01:11:21,200 --> 01:11:23,880
Speaker 1: great and you point out and you you believe that

1308
01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:26,920
Speaker 1: a lot of those signs are there because of us

1309
01:11:27,439 --> 01:11:31,720
Speaker 1: public users not respecting. Yeah, I think it's either and

1310
01:11:31,920 --> 01:11:35,200
Speaker 1: I haven't seen it. I haven't seen like disrespect really

1311
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:37,479
Speaker 1: on the river where I work. I think I think

1312
01:11:37,520 --> 01:11:39,400
Speaker 1: locals are great. I think the visitors are great. I

1313
01:11:39,439 --> 01:11:41,720
Speaker 1: think the visitors do a lot of homework. Um, the

1314
01:11:41,720 --> 01:11:44,000
Speaker 1: biggest way they could do that is by going with guides,

1315
01:11:44,280 --> 01:11:46,800
Speaker 1: you know, by by having somebody show you how to

1316
01:11:46,840 --> 01:11:48,640
Speaker 1: do it, and maybe next time that they they'll come

1317
01:11:48,640 --> 01:11:50,400
Speaker 1: back they can do it themselves. But I think a

1318
01:11:50,439 --> 01:11:53,200
Speaker 1: lot of it is, um, somebody either did something wrong,

1319
01:11:53,360 --> 01:11:57,240
Speaker 1: or there's the fear that something bad will happen there.

1320
01:11:57,400 --> 01:12:01,160
Speaker 1: The private landowner is afraid that, um, somebody's going to

1321
01:12:01,240 --> 01:12:02,960
Speaker 1: come up on their property and something bad is going

1322
01:12:03,040 --> 01:12:07,320
Speaker 1: to happen, or maybe which isn't unreasonable. Yeah, they're they're

1323
01:12:07,320 --> 01:12:09,519
Speaker 1: gonna somebody's gonna get hurt in there, sue them, or

1324
01:12:09,520 --> 01:12:11,679
Speaker 1: else maybe they'll break into their house. I mean, people

1325
01:12:11,720 --> 01:12:14,200
Speaker 1: love to have that back back deck open, you know,

1326
01:12:14,240 --> 01:12:16,360
Speaker 1: facing the river all the time. Somebody gonna come in

1327
01:12:16,400 --> 01:12:18,320
Speaker 1: and steal my ship, you know. Can I let my

1328
01:12:18,360 --> 01:12:20,639
Speaker 1: kids play out there and there's all these people coming by?

1329
01:12:20,720 --> 01:12:22,240
Speaker 1: Is that even safe? You know? I Mean, it's that

1330
01:12:22,280 --> 01:12:24,760
Speaker 1: typical fear in America that we have. And it's hard

1331
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:26,720
Speaker 1: for me, just because I've grown up there and I've

1332
01:12:27,040 --> 01:12:29,759
Speaker 1: worked there for so long to see that change happen.

1333
01:12:29,840 --> 01:12:31,719
Speaker 1: And it's like, oh man, no, it's just me. Hey,

1334
01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:34,040
Speaker 1: you know, it's cool. I'm not gonna hurt you, you know.

1335
01:12:34,120 --> 01:12:35,680
Speaker 1: And so I think that's just kind of one of

1336
01:12:35,680 --> 01:12:38,080
Speaker 1: those growing things we see in America as of fear

1337
01:12:38,080 --> 01:12:40,160
Speaker 1: and love for that to stop, and we have to

1338
01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:43,160
Speaker 1: be the ones to stop it just by being really

1339
01:12:43,200 --> 01:12:46,400
Speaker 1: respectful of those private landowners for sure. So to answer

1340
01:12:46,439 --> 01:12:49,400
Speaker 1: your question about like who's UM when when I guide

1341
01:12:49,400 --> 01:12:52,240
Speaker 1: as a private property is it? Is it UM, state

1342
01:12:52,320 --> 01:12:54,880
Speaker 1: or federal? It's really cool that it's a mix. Like

1343
01:12:54,960 --> 01:12:56,840
Speaker 1: caw said, it's up to us to know the rules

1344
01:12:57,600 --> 01:12:59,679
Speaker 1: and where I work. It's really cool that it's a mixed.

1345
01:12:59,680 --> 01:13:02,600
Speaker 1: Now on the north fork of the Flathead, the boundary

1346
01:13:02,600 --> 01:13:05,680
Speaker 1: goes right smack dab down the river. Um, in the

1347
01:13:05,720 --> 01:13:08,880
Speaker 1: middle of the river, there's a line cheapest part of

1348
01:13:08,920 --> 01:13:12,519
Speaker 1: the deepest channel exactly. So UM, if you're floating the river,

1349
01:13:12,760 --> 01:13:15,120
Speaker 1: river right is going to be that mix of state,

1350
01:13:15,280 --> 01:13:19,040
Speaker 1: federal and private land. River left is going to be

1351
01:13:19,160 --> 01:13:21,720
Speaker 1: all park side Glacier National Park. So the middle fork

1352
01:13:21,760 --> 01:13:24,320
Speaker 1: in the north Fork form the two boundaries. The boundaries

1353
01:13:24,360 --> 01:13:26,160
Speaker 1: right smack dab down the middle. So that's why we

1354
01:13:26,160 --> 01:13:30,599
Speaker 1: tell everybody to get as the river's administered the same way.

1355
01:13:30,720 --> 01:13:32,360
Speaker 1: Or you actually can't fish one side of the river

1356
01:13:32,400 --> 01:13:35,519
Speaker 1: without a certain you you can fish both sides. It's

1357
01:13:35,560 --> 01:13:38,240
Speaker 1: it's hysterical because that's why. UM, in Glacier National Park

1358
01:13:38,240 --> 01:13:39,920
Speaker 1: you don't have to have a fishing license. Actually you

1359
01:13:39,960 --> 01:13:42,840
Speaker 1: can fish in the park without a license and it's free. UM,

1360
01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:45,360
Speaker 1: but we make everybody get it because the same thing,

1361
01:13:45,360 --> 01:13:47,200
Speaker 1: like you were talking about the ducks, you catch a

1362
01:13:47,240 --> 01:13:49,720
Speaker 1: fish and then on on park side where it's free

1363
01:13:49,760 --> 01:13:51,360
Speaker 1: or whatever, and it swims over to the other side,

1364
01:13:51,400 --> 01:13:53,320
Speaker 1: and like you land it on the other side, you know,

1365
01:13:53,800 --> 01:13:56,720
Speaker 1: up up for debate a little bit. So everybody gets

1366
01:13:56,920 --> 01:13:59,519
Speaker 1: everybody has to get a fishing license, and we try

1367
01:13:59,560 --> 01:14:03,400
Speaker 1: not to park. You don't really camp River left on

1368
01:14:03,439 --> 01:14:06,360
Speaker 1: park side because you don't have a backcountry permit. Always

1369
01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:10,720
Speaker 1: camp River right where it's for service, because you know,

1370
01:14:10,800 --> 01:14:12,680
Speaker 1: that's a four service camp. Even as if it's not

1371
01:14:12,720 --> 01:14:15,320
Speaker 1: an established camp, you can camp there without it being

1372
01:14:15,360 --> 01:14:18,200
Speaker 1: an actual campground. But it's got to be on the

1373
01:14:18,240 --> 01:14:24,800
Speaker 1: public land. Yeah. Within the fish small mouth uh and

1374
01:14:24,840 --> 01:14:26,720
Speaker 1: a lot of other things. On the Delaware River, which

1375
01:14:26,760 --> 01:14:30,160
Speaker 1: is a wild and scenic you know, designated wild and

1376
01:14:30,200 --> 01:14:32,680
Speaker 1: scenic river flows between in the stretch. I used to

1377
01:14:32,720 --> 01:14:37,439
Speaker 1: fish flows between New York and Pennsylvania. UM, wildfish slam

1378
01:14:37,560 --> 01:14:41,200
Speaker 1: offs be caught uh over the years, nine different species

1379
01:14:41,200 --> 01:14:45,120
Speaker 1: of fish out of that river. Um. But anyways, those

1380
01:14:45,160 --> 01:14:48,760
Speaker 1: two states came up with a collaborative agreement, which is

1381
01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:53,719
Speaker 1: pretty nice. I wish it happened more where you could

1382
01:14:53,760 --> 01:14:56,559
Speaker 1: hold a license from either side and fish both sides.

1383
01:14:57,080 --> 01:15:01,519
Speaker 1: And they came together and made a a regulation with

1384
01:15:01,600 --> 01:15:05,519
Speaker 1: bag limits and methods and seasons that made it so

1385
01:15:05,760 --> 01:15:09,160
Speaker 1: that river was jointly managed in a way that made

1386
01:15:09,200 --> 01:15:11,639
Speaker 1: sense to people. When I used to live in Sue

1387
01:15:11,680 --> 01:15:14,840
Speaker 1: Sat Marie, Michigan, you have a gigantic river to St.

1388
01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:18,320
Speaker 1: Mary's River, which one side of the US, one side Canada,

1389
01:15:18,720 --> 01:15:20,400
Speaker 1: and there was a line running down there. It was

1390
01:15:20,439 --> 01:15:24,240
Speaker 1: not easily discernible, and the seasons and structures were very

1391
01:15:24,320 --> 01:15:26,880
Speaker 1: different on each side of that line. It would create

1392
01:15:26,920 --> 01:15:29,559
Speaker 1: a lot of confusion for people out in boats. There's

1393
01:15:29,560 --> 01:15:31,720
Speaker 1: a story of Buddy Mine, a guy who works at

1394
01:15:31,720 --> 01:15:34,160
Speaker 1: Bench Made was telling me about a bass fisherman who's

1395
01:15:34,160 --> 01:15:39,400
Speaker 1: in a tournament and in the Mississippi River and it's

1396
01:15:39,479 --> 01:15:41,599
Speaker 1: very confused, like what states waters here and he's where

1397
01:15:41,600 --> 01:15:44,720
Speaker 1: it's several different states come together and one of the

1398
01:15:44,720 --> 01:15:49,679
Speaker 1: states you can't high grade fish, meaning if you catch

1399
01:15:49,680 --> 01:15:51,280
Speaker 1: a fish and put in your live well, and you

1400
01:15:51,360 --> 01:15:54,120
Speaker 1: gotta limit, and you catch a bigger one, you turn

1401
01:15:54,200 --> 01:15:56,479
Speaker 1: one of those fish out and put the bigger one in.

1402
01:15:57,120 --> 01:16:00,920
Speaker 1: So unknowingly he crossed the line and high graded a

1403
01:16:01,000 --> 01:16:06,400
Speaker 1: fish in another state and and broke a state law

1404
01:16:07,160 --> 01:16:10,080
Speaker 1: and wand up losing some absurd amount of money because

1405
01:16:10,080 --> 01:16:14,240
Speaker 1: it's a fishing tournament over that little differentiation there, and

1406
01:16:14,280 --> 01:16:16,680
Speaker 1: it does get a little bit complicated. Um. I was

1407
01:16:16,680 --> 01:16:19,000
Speaker 1: always glad, like I thought it was cool that Delaware

1408
01:16:19,040 --> 01:16:20,559
Speaker 1: did that, But that's usually not the case. You can

1409
01:16:20,560 --> 01:16:23,000
Speaker 1: get some really confused ship. When one side of a

1410
01:16:23,040 --> 01:16:26,160
Speaker 1: bank is owned, you know it's managing somewhere in the

1411
01:16:26,240 --> 01:16:28,800
Speaker 1: R side's managing a different way to the Colorado point.

1412
01:16:28,880 --> 01:16:31,280
Speaker 1: I was just trying to think about what it would

1413
01:16:31,320 --> 01:16:33,280
Speaker 1: be like to not be able to touch the rocks

1414
01:16:33,320 --> 01:16:35,560
Speaker 1: in the beds and stuff like that. Where where I

1415
01:16:35,680 --> 01:16:37,719
Speaker 1: guide because I'm out of the boat all the time,

1416
01:16:38,040 --> 01:16:42,080
Speaker 1: not just you know, to fish it right, you know,

1417
01:16:42,160 --> 01:16:44,280
Speaker 1: sometimes we walk the boat sometimes, you know, it gets

1418
01:16:44,280 --> 01:16:45,720
Speaker 1: so skinny. I don't want to use my oars and

1419
01:16:45,720 --> 01:16:47,360
Speaker 1: I don't want to bang rocks or whatever, and so

1420
01:16:47,400 --> 01:16:49,679
Speaker 1: you know, I'll move the boat myself. But but also

1421
01:16:49,720 --> 01:16:52,479
Speaker 1: because being stewards of that river means we have an

1422
01:16:52,479 --> 01:16:53,960
Speaker 1: awful lot of things we have to do to help

1423
01:16:54,040 --> 01:16:56,600
Speaker 1: we pick up a ton of trash, for example, you know,

1424
01:16:56,880 --> 01:16:59,240
Speaker 1: get people out of a jam, Like I'm pushing boats

1425
01:16:59,280 --> 01:17:01,360
Speaker 1: off you remember all the hand like all these people

1426
01:17:01,400 --> 01:17:03,880
Speaker 1: coming down they get stuck on rocks themselves. You're pushing

1427
01:17:03,920 --> 01:17:05,720
Speaker 1: them off rocks all the time and helping people out,

1428
01:17:05,720 --> 01:17:09,240
Speaker 1: giving people directions. You know what happens if you see trash,

1429
01:17:09,360 --> 01:17:11,000
Speaker 1: you're not allowed to go pick it up because you're

1430
01:17:11,000 --> 01:17:13,559
Speaker 1: afraid to get in trouble, you know. I mean, it

1431
01:17:13,640 --> 01:17:16,040
Speaker 1: just seems weird to not be able to be an

1432
01:17:16,080 --> 01:17:20,439
Speaker 1: actual steward of the entire piece. That everybody's got this

1433
01:17:20,520 --> 01:17:23,080
Speaker 1: own little bubble that they go into. It's nothing, it's

1434
01:17:23,120 --> 01:17:25,839
Speaker 1: not the right way where I'm at. I'm at it

1435
01:17:25,600 --> 01:17:28,800
Speaker 1: with some of your things. I can totally, I totally

1436
01:17:28,880 --> 01:17:31,640
Speaker 1: understand the other side of the issue. I can. I

1437
01:17:31,720 --> 01:17:34,160
Speaker 1: understand it because, like I said, I grew up on

1438
01:17:34,320 --> 01:17:37,479
Speaker 1: a lake that had public access. I own a place

1439
01:17:37,520 --> 01:17:43,519
Speaker 1: now that has uh it's on public access waterway. I

1440
01:17:43,600 --> 01:17:46,080
Speaker 1: understand both sides of the issue because I understand the

1441
01:17:46,120 --> 01:17:50,400
Speaker 1: feeling of man, does it suck that on the lake

1442
01:17:50,439 --> 01:17:52,400
Speaker 1: where I grew up. When the blue gills come up

1443
01:17:52,439 --> 01:17:57,160
Speaker 1: on the beds in early June, they get hammered by

1444
01:17:57,280 --> 01:18:00,599
Speaker 1: dudes who walked down that access. I understand, Dan, you'd

1445
01:18:00,680 --> 01:18:03,960
Speaker 1: be like, man, I should call up and do a

1446
01:18:04,000 --> 01:18:07,000
Speaker 1: little sniffing around and find a way to make it

1447
01:18:07,040 --> 01:18:09,519
Speaker 1: that they can't come and do that, because people are

1448
01:18:09,560 --> 01:18:13,519
Speaker 1: just like that. I think that we're like that over

1449
01:18:13,560 --> 01:18:16,600
Speaker 1: fishing game, where I imagined that the earliest wars we

1450
01:18:16,720 --> 01:18:21,120
Speaker 1: fought as our species, definitely the earliest wars we fought

1451
01:18:21,160 --> 01:18:24,760
Speaker 1: in this country were wars that we fought over access

1452
01:18:25,000 --> 01:18:28,600
Speaker 1: to fishing game, who's hunting grounds or who when you

1453
01:18:28,680 --> 01:18:33,599
Speaker 1: go When Lewis and Clark were traveling through traveling across

1454
01:18:33,640 --> 01:18:36,439
Speaker 1: the West, a lot of the places where they recorded

1455
01:18:36,439 --> 01:18:42,720
Speaker 1: the greatest concentrations of game turned out to be uh

1456
01:18:42,960 --> 01:18:50,080
Speaker 1: contested hunting grounds between different tribes. The Noman's lands borders

1457
01:18:50,080 --> 01:18:52,120
Speaker 1: between different tribes where it was not safe to go

1458
01:18:52,240 --> 01:18:54,880
Speaker 1: hunt and fish because of the chances you'd run into

1459
01:18:55,000 --> 01:18:59,080
Speaker 1: your competitors, and those areas tended to concentrate game. So

1460
01:18:59,280 --> 01:19:02,000
Speaker 1: we've always kind of like fought over access points and

1461
01:19:02,040 --> 01:19:04,719
Speaker 1: fought over rivers and fought over control of the Ohio

1462
01:19:04,760 --> 01:19:08,040
Speaker 1: and control of the Cumberland Gap. No, no no, no, because

1463
01:19:08,040 --> 01:19:10,559
Speaker 1: we wanted those little things for ourselves. I get it.

1464
01:19:11,120 --> 01:19:13,280
Speaker 1: But the same way I do when it comes to

1465
01:19:13,360 --> 01:19:17,240
Speaker 1: issues of clean air and clean water, Um, what I

1466
01:19:17,320 --> 01:19:20,680
Speaker 1: do when it comes to issues of public access, I

1467
01:19:20,720 --> 01:19:30,839
Speaker 1: am generally gonna just instinctively side on the side of access.

1468
01:19:30,880 --> 01:19:34,120
Speaker 1: Public access. It's like, it doesn't mean I don't understand

1469
01:19:34,120 --> 01:19:37,160
Speaker 1: the other arguments. If I was, I could go in

1470
01:19:37,240 --> 01:19:39,640
Speaker 1: and argue all day long, and I could probably be

1471
01:19:39,680 --> 01:19:42,439
Speaker 1: fairly convincing at it, like I have that much of

1472
01:19:42,439 --> 01:19:49,240
Speaker 1: a grasp bottom. Um. But if we don't watch out

1473
01:19:49,320 --> 01:19:53,559
Speaker 1: and protect public access, I feel as though we are

1474
01:19:54,600 --> 01:19:58,320
Speaker 1: gonna slowly just get beat. Well here's my my Pollyanna

1475
01:19:58,360 --> 01:20:00,559
Speaker 1: pipe ups. Here's what I don't get a about that

1476
01:20:00,640 --> 01:20:03,400
Speaker 1: private ownership is I love the hell out of sharing it.

1477
01:20:03,600 --> 01:20:07,080
Speaker 1: I mean, you're blue girl thing too, I guarantee. Well,

1478
01:20:07,160 --> 01:20:09,759
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. Like there's something about

1479
01:20:09,800 --> 01:20:12,600
Speaker 1: going out there and like helping people get into them.

1480
01:20:12,640 --> 01:20:15,280
Speaker 1: I mean really, and I challenge I bet you have

1481
01:20:15,360 --> 01:20:21,519
Speaker 1: that too. I don't maybe not. I like to share

1482
01:20:21,600 --> 01:20:24,880
Speaker 1: the fish stack. However, how much time did you spend

1483
01:20:25,000 --> 01:20:27,240
Speaker 1: trying to get me a yellow eye? Yeah, I was

1484
01:20:27,280 --> 01:20:29,160
Speaker 1: the only person fishing, and I think it was the

1485
01:20:29,200 --> 01:20:33,559
Speaker 1: writer John Gearritt who pointed out great fishing. Writer pointed

1486
01:20:33,560 --> 01:20:36,040
Speaker 1: out there's two kinds of fishermen. There's the guys in

1487
01:20:36,120 --> 01:20:40,120
Speaker 1: your party and enters the assholes. So yeah, I love

1488
01:20:40,160 --> 01:20:43,160
Speaker 1: to take people out. But at the same time, now

1489
01:20:43,280 --> 01:20:47,200
Speaker 1: there is a Native tribal corporation that owns a lot

1490
01:20:47,240 --> 01:20:50,800
Speaker 1: of land near my fish shack. When they go in

1491
01:20:51,680 --> 01:20:57,840
Speaker 1: and cut timber, they clear cut it, they annihilate the place.

1492
01:20:58,320 --> 01:21:00,760
Speaker 1: And the one I talk about Cela, they're going into

1493
01:21:00,760 --> 01:21:02,719
Speaker 1: do a big cut right now, just what we saw,

1494
01:21:02,880 --> 01:21:07,120
Speaker 1: and they are gonna annihilate all the old growth on

1495
01:21:07,280 --> 01:21:10,160
Speaker 1: the two big end. Let's buy My place is their land,

1496
01:21:10,479 --> 01:21:16,280
Speaker 1: right their property. It makes me feel sick the destruction

1497
01:21:16,280 --> 01:21:20,360
Speaker 1: that we saw in three days without them taking a

1498
01:21:20,479 --> 01:21:23,760
Speaker 1: stick of lumber out, not one stick lumber out, just

1499
01:21:23,880 --> 01:21:30,479
Speaker 1: getting things prepped to start taking lumber out, dynamite. They

1500
01:21:30,560 --> 01:21:33,799
Speaker 1: will go after the They will go after every scrap

1501
01:21:33,840 --> 01:21:38,960
Speaker 1: of old girlth they can get. So it's private land,

1502
01:21:39,920 --> 01:21:42,160
Speaker 1: you know, and I do. There are parts of me

1503
01:21:42,240 --> 01:21:45,599
Speaker 1: I look and go like it can never be like,

1504
01:21:46,200 --> 01:21:50,559
Speaker 1: why can't the tribal corporation look at that and be like, yeah,

1505
01:21:50,560 --> 01:21:53,760
Speaker 1: I gotta like it like that. It's just there's just

1506
01:21:53,840 --> 01:21:59,519
Speaker 1: something about It's just kills me. It kills me To

1507
01:21:59,520 --> 01:22:03,120
Speaker 1: bring her back to a point point being I understand

1508
01:22:03,120 --> 01:22:07,599
Speaker 1: all the complexities and idiosyncrasies and hypocrisies, right, I don't

1509
01:22:07,600 --> 01:22:09,760
Speaker 1: want someone telling me. If someone came and say, hey, man,

1510
01:22:09,800 --> 01:22:14,120
Speaker 1: you can't do that on your property, I'd be like what. Meanwhile,

1511
01:22:14,160 --> 01:22:15,760
Speaker 1: I look across the beach and I'm like, how can

1512
01:22:15,800 --> 01:22:17,920
Speaker 1: have sons of bitches do that on their property? So

1513
01:22:18,000 --> 01:22:20,680
Speaker 1: it's just like we are full of personal biases that

1514
01:22:20,720 --> 01:22:22,680
Speaker 1: we're always looking out for our own well being. I

1515
01:22:22,720 --> 01:22:24,559
Speaker 1: could point to you, Hillary and say, well, you know what,

1516
01:22:24,960 --> 01:22:28,840
Speaker 1: you're running the business selling flies to people who are

1517
01:22:28,840 --> 01:22:31,479
Speaker 1: fishing on the rivers that flow through private land. You

1518
01:22:31,520 --> 01:22:35,160
Speaker 1: guide clients, right, So you're just looking out for your

1519
01:22:35,200 --> 01:22:37,840
Speaker 1: bottom line, and that's why you're trying to dress up

1520
01:22:37,880 --> 01:22:40,320
Speaker 1: this issue as something that benefits the people. What we're

1521
01:22:40,320 --> 01:22:42,360
Speaker 1: really talking about your money, right, I just need the

1522
01:22:42,400 --> 01:22:44,920
Speaker 1: money because it's if it's shut down, I won't get

1523
01:22:44,960 --> 01:22:46,680
Speaker 1: to But that's a really good point. I mean that

1524
01:22:46,920 --> 01:22:49,639
Speaker 1: is actually a huge part of it. Look at all

1525
01:22:49,680 --> 01:22:52,000
Speaker 1: of the guides, look at all of the outfitters who

1526
01:22:52,040 --> 01:22:54,680
Speaker 1: we all work together for our livelihoods, and we all

1527
01:22:54,680 --> 01:22:56,599
Speaker 1: go to the grocery stores, real center, kids of school,

1528
01:22:56,640 --> 01:22:59,479
Speaker 1: all this, you know, continues on. So it is true.

1529
01:22:59,560 --> 01:23:02,519
Speaker 1: It's a very good point. Looking out for public lands

1530
01:23:02,520 --> 01:23:05,920
Speaker 1: and public access and use is a way of sustaining

1531
01:23:05,920 --> 01:23:08,680
Speaker 1: our families and sustaining our livelihoods, especially in a lot

1532
01:23:08,720 --> 01:23:10,640
Speaker 1: of these small towns where we've got three months to

1533
01:23:10,680 --> 01:23:13,559
Speaker 1: do so. So hell yeah, I want to sell the flies,

1534
01:23:13,600 --> 01:23:15,840
Speaker 1: I want to get people on the rivers, and it

1535
01:23:16,000 --> 01:23:17,920
Speaker 1: is a way of looking out for myself. Can I

1536
01:23:17,960 --> 01:23:21,559
Speaker 1: point out something about the tribal corporation is clear cut

1537
01:23:21,640 --> 01:23:26,960
Speaker 1: in the land. They are wonderful about public access. You

1538
01:23:27,000 --> 01:23:30,040
Speaker 1: don't need to ask. You can hunt and fish on

1539
01:23:30,120 --> 01:23:38,800
Speaker 1: their land. Go ahead. Yeah, it's complicated. It's the renewed

1540
01:23:38,840 --> 01:23:41,679
Speaker 1: timbers of renewable resource. My house is built out of wood.

1541
01:23:41,720 --> 01:23:45,439
Speaker 1: That ship got cut down somewhere. Okay, it provides jobs

1542
01:23:45,520 --> 01:23:48,120
Speaker 1: all that, But we always have these things, but we

1543
01:23:48,200 --> 01:23:50,599
Speaker 1: are always sort of looking out for our personal interests.

1544
01:23:50,960 --> 01:23:53,960
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to make this point, Okay, I'm trying

1545
01:23:54,000 --> 01:23:57,240
Speaker 1: to make this point. I'm trying to say, yes I have.

1546
01:23:57,680 --> 01:24:00,360
Speaker 1: I'm gearing up to make the point that, yeah, I

1547
01:24:00,400 --> 01:24:02,600
Speaker 1: have stuff to gain personally from public access, like the

1548
01:24:02,640 --> 01:24:06,439
Speaker 1: hunting fish. But I do think that it's a little

1549
01:24:06,479 --> 01:24:09,519
Speaker 1: bit bigger than my own needs. I think that I'm

1550
01:24:09,560 --> 01:24:13,000
Speaker 1: on the winning side of history when I say that

1551
01:24:15,400 --> 01:24:17,280
Speaker 1: that it's something I think we need to do with

1552
01:24:17,320 --> 01:24:21,680
Speaker 1: an eye toward future generations. Roosevelt talked about preserving wildlife

1553
01:24:21,960 --> 01:24:24,840
Speaker 1: and preserving land for the generations still in the womb,

1554
01:24:25,680 --> 01:24:30,800
Speaker 1: the womb of time, the womb of time, Okay, beyond us.

1555
01:24:32,160 --> 01:24:35,960
Speaker 1: Because of my occupation, I have no shortage. I could

1556
01:24:36,080 --> 01:24:38,000
Speaker 1: hunt and fish the rest of my life on private

1557
01:24:38,000 --> 01:24:40,639
Speaker 1: property and enjoy the best hunting and fishing the world

1558
01:24:40,640 --> 01:24:43,439
Speaker 1: has to offer. Right. I happen to be lucky enough

1559
01:24:43,479 --> 01:24:45,320
Speaker 1: to be like, we're doing what I do for work.

1560
01:24:45,640 --> 01:24:49,160
Speaker 1: I have great connections. I don't need this stuff, but

1561
01:24:49,280 --> 01:24:51,920
Speaker 1: I do like to see it because I think about

1562
01:24:52,800 --> 01:24:56,479
Speaker 1: future generations and what will their relationship be to the

1563
01:24:56,520 --> 01:25:00,600
Speaker 1: out of doors, What will their perception of public resources be?

1564
01:25:01,040 --> 01:25:03,679
Speaker 1: Will they have a vested interest. Recently that the director

1565
01:25:03,720 --> 01:25:05,599
Speaker 1: of the U S Fish and Wildlife Service. Dan Ash

1566
01:25:05,640 --> 01:25:08,120
Speaker 1: gave his speech, gave a talk, and what he talked

1567
01:25:08,120 --> 01:25:13,920
Speaker 1: about was conservation becoming irrelevant as people turn away from

1568
01:25:13,960 --> 01:25:17,479
Speaker 1: the out of doors and become more engaged with just

1569
01:25:17,920 --> 01:25:23,280
Speaker 1: electronics the indoors, as we become more urban and less rural,

1570
01:25:23,600 --> 01:25:28,680
Speaker 1: that people will just not give a ship what happens

1571
01:25:29,400 --> 01:25:36,160
Speaker 1: with the woods and waters. Okay, By enhancing public access

1572
01:25:36,280 --> 01:25:39,320
Speaker 1: and giving people as many opportunities as possible to enjoy

1573
01:25:39,360 --> 01:25:42,360
Speaker 1: the out ofdoors, to enjoy woods and waters, you increase

1574
01:25:42,400 --> 01:25:46,960
Speaker 1: the likelihood that those same people will stay interested in

1575
01:25:47,000 --> 01:25:50,040
Speaker 1: clean air and clean water is the long game. Do

1576
01:25:50,200 --> 01:25:52,639
Speaker 1: I gain something from it on a very personal level

1577
01:25:52,640 --> 01:25:55,000
Speaker 1: on a day to day basis, Yes, But I don't

1578
01:25:55,000 --> 01:25:57,439
Speaker 1: think you should take that and turn it against me

1579
01:25:57,760 --> 01:25:59,439
Speaker 1: when I point out that we are talking about something

1580
01:25:59,479 --> 01:26:03,160
Speaker 1: a little bit big or didn't catch a fish absolutely ourselves.

1581
01:26:03,280 --> 01:26:05,559
Speaker 1: I do that shorthand, Um, that was a lot more

1582
01:26:05,560 --> 01:26:07,639
Speaker 1: eloquent than I would do it. But I said, it's

1583
01:26:07,680 --> 01:26:12,000
Speaker 1: like the access is the gateway drug conservation. Yes, right,

1584
01:26:12,040 --> 01:26:14,360
Speaker 1: and so without that access, like what you just said,

1585
01:26:14,400 --> 01:26:17,200
Speaker 1: then why do you care? Right? And so if you

1586
01:26:17,200 --> 01:26:18,679
Speaker 1: have that access and you get out there and get yourself.

1587
01:26:18,680 --> 01:26:19,960
Speaker 1: I'm wors in it. And then you start to learn

1588
01:26:20,320 --> 01:26:23,160
Speaker 1: intersecrecies of all that all works together and what part

1589
01:26:23,200 --> 01:26:26,240
Speaker 1: you play. So it's just a gateway drugs what it is. Yeah,

1590
01:26:26,560 --> 01:26:29,280
Speaker 1: ed Abby wouldn't have written Desert Solitaire if he didn't

1591
01:26:29,280 --> 01:26:33,400
Speaker 1: hang out outside. Jim Harrison would have written wolf Right

1592
01:26:33,439 --> 01:26:34,720
Speaker 1: if he hadn't spent a bunch of time in the

1593
01:26:34,760 --> 01:26:40,000
Speaker 1: here on National Force. It's like exposure leads to advocacy.

1594
01:26:40,120 --> 01:26:42,040
Speaker 1: I also guide a lot of people from the city

1595
01:26:42,040 --> 01:26:45,120
Speaker 1: who are trying to get away from their lives doing

1596
01:26:45,160 --> 01:26:46,840
Speaker 1: whatever it is that they do in the city where

1597
01:26:46,880 --> 01:26:49,120
Speaker 1: you're talking about. Those are kind of potentially the people

1598
01:26:49,200 --> 01:26:53,280
Speaker 1: who might create less need for woods and waters. But

1599
01:26:53,520 --> 01:26:55,760
Speaker 1: they need to get away somehow, right, So they come

1600
01:26:55,760 --> 01:26:58,519
Speaker 1: away for a weekend and they come out and and

1601
01:26:58,760 --> 01:27:00,920
Speaker 1: my point to them is no, no, I'm glad you

1602
01:27:00,960 --> 01:27:02,800
Speaker 1: came out here to get away, but you need to

1603
01:27:02,840 --> 01:27:04,960
Speaker 1: not come out here to get away. You need to

1604
01:27:05,000 --> 01:27:07,600
Speaker 1: come out here to be part of it because it

1605
01:27:07,720 --> 01:27:09,439
Speaker 1: belongs to you, it belongs to all of us, and

1606
01:27:09,479 --> 01:27:11,280
Speaker 1: you need to continue to contribute to it. So this

1607
01:27:11,360 --> 01:27:13,800
Speaker 1: is yours as much as it is mine. This isn't

1608
01:27:13,840 --> 01:27:16,840
Speaker 1: like Disneyland, where this river's on rails and you've paid

1609
01:27:17,120 --> 01:27:19,080
Speaker 1: and you're I'm gonna take your round around in circles.

1610
01:27:19,120 --> 01:27:21,400
Speaker 1: This belongs to you. So so don't think of getting

1611
01:27:21,439 --> 01:27:23,720
Speaker 1: away from it. Being in the city and having all

1612
01:27:23,760 --> 01:27:26,800
Speaker 1: your electronics in your life. Make it part of your life.

1613
01:27:26,840 --> 01:27:29,320
Speaker 1: Come out here and say this is every bit of

1614
01:27:29,320 --> 01:27:32,120
Speaker 1: my life. Is what I do from my nine to five.

1615
01:27:33,760 --> 01:27:36,639
Speaker 1: Welcome American to your river. To your river. I mean,

1616
01:27:36,760 --> 01:27:39,800
Speaker 1: this is not you getting away. This is like, this

1617
01:27:39,840 --> 01:27:42,599
Speaker 1: is an extension of your life and then your kid's life.

1618
01:27:42,920 --> 01:27:45,160
Speaker 1: And when they look at it like that, they're like,

1619
01:27:45,760 --> 01:27:48,680
Speaker 1: oh my god, I never knew. And then that ownership

1620
01:27:48,800 --> 01:27:51,439
Speaker 1: comes out in them. They feel like, God, well, we

1621
01:27:51,439 --> 01:27:53,760
Speaker 1: gotta we have to look at protecting this. This has

1622
01:27:53,800 --> 01:27:56,600
Speaker 1: to be here for future generations. I didn't know. I

1623
01:27:56,680 --> 01:27:59,280
Speaker 1: didn't know this was here for my children's children, and

1624
01:27:59,280 --> 01:28:01,280
Speaker 1: I'm like, how do not? But now you do. And

1625
01:28:01,320 --> 01:28:03,000
Speaker 1: so then what happens is then they go back to

1626
01:28:03,040 --> 01:28:05,040
Speaker 1: the cities and they can be able to make plans

1627
01:28:05,080 --> 01:28:06,640
Speaker 1: to come back next year and maybe it will be

1628
01:28:06,680 --> 01:28:08,880
Speaker 1: two years, but doesn't matter. It's in their heart, it's

1629
01:28:08,920 --> 01:28:10,519
Speaker 1: in their head. They're able to tell their kids, they've

1630
01:28:10,520 --> 01:28:13,080
Speaker 1: got their photos, you know, it's the screensaver on their

1631
01:28:13,120 --> 01:28:15,439
Speaker 1: phone now, and they're part of it, and they're going

1632
01:28:15,479 --> 01:28:18,240
Speaker 1: to fight like hell to protect it because they've been there.

1633
01:28:18,240 --> 01:28:20,439
Speaker 1: They're connected to it now and they're going to be

1634
01:28:20,479 --> 01:28:24,040
Speaker 1: some of the biggest fighters and and it's soaked in them.

1635
01:28:24,080 --> 01:28:26,400
Speaker 1: They're never going to forget that experience. I mean, I

1636
01:28:26,439 --> 01:28:29,439
Speaker 1: have people who like um, ask for photos of some

1637
01:28:29,520 --> 01:28:31,920
Speaker 1: of our trips, uh that I need to send to them,

1638
01:28:31,960 --> 01:28:33,960
Speaker 1: and it's been maybe years since they've come back, but

1639
01:28:34,080 --> 01:28:36,840
Speaker 1: it's because somebody who's on that trip died and they

1640
01:28:36,880 --> 01:28:39,800
Speaker 1: want that to be part of their memorial service, you know.

1641
01:28:39,840 --> 01:28:43,680
Speaker 1: I mean, it's really lasting impressions and they use it.

1642
01:28:43,720 --> 01:28:45,479
Speaker 1: They they're the ones who vote. I mean, any of

1643
01:28:45,479 --> 01:28:48,280
Speaker 1: these guys here all say that, you know, voting is

1644
01:28:48,439 --> 01:28:50,360
Speaker 1: the number one way that we're going to be able

1645
01:28:50,400 --> 01:28:53,000
Speaker 1: to protect it. And those people in cities who potentially

1646
01:28:53,040 --> 01:28:56,320
Speaker 1: you're saying aren't necessarily connected to it, I think are

1647
01:28:56,439 --> 01:28:59,519
Speaker 1: so connected to it because of their small experiences that

1648
01:28:59,640 --> 01:29:03,960
Speaker 1: they will vote for it. Good. Now we're gonna do

1649
01:29:04,000 --> 01:29:08,720
Speaker 1: something that was great, but that was that was like

1650
01:29:08,800 --> 01:29:11,160
Speaker 1: you did your concluding thought before we do conclude. I

1651
01:29:11,200 --> 01:29:16,639
Speaker 1: could say it again, that's what we're worried that, uh,

1652
01:29:16,640 --> 01:29:19,280
Speaker 1: we'll do concluding thoughts and the not that direction you

1653
01:29:19,320 --> 01:29:26,040
Speaker 1: deal poker, oh man, but laying I'm dictating your h

1654
01:29:26,680 --> 01:29:29,439
Speaker 1: that's punchline to a joke we recually got really interested in.

1655
01:29:29,600 --> 01:29:35,160
Speaker 1: Um uh. At my age, I find that punch lines

1656
01:29:35,200 --> 01:29:39,920
Speaker 1: are funnier than the actual joke. I'd rather just hear

1657
01:29:39,920 --> 01:29:45,000
Speaker 1: the punchline and try to imagine the joke, like, uh,

1658
01:29:45,120 --> 01:29:48,320
Speaker 1: Yanni's got a punch line, which is funny to me.

1659
01:29:48,920 --> 01:29:50,599
Speaker 1: I know the joke. I just love the punch line.

1660
01:29:50,600 --> 01:29:55,519
Speaker 1: There's another punch line and tell them how might dictate? Um? Yeah,

1661
01:29:55,800 --> 01:29:57,840
Speaker 1: tell us your I don't have any more jokes, I

1662
01:29:57,840 --> 01:30:04,040
Speaker 1: don't have any more funch I'm gonna I'm not gonna

1663
01:30:04,080 --> 01:30:06,840
Speaker 1: dictate it to you. Yeah, I'm gonna dictate to you.

1664
01:30:07,680 --> 01:30:12,679
Speaker 1: That are I'm gonna ask of you that you uh

1665
01:30:13,160 --> 01:30:21,479
Speaker 1: have your concluding thought dovetail seamlessly into what people can

1666
01:30:21,520 --> 01:30:24,639
Speaker 1: do to find out and get involved? Do you mind

1667
01:30:24,640 --> 01:30:27,360
Speaker 1: doing that? So do whatever you want to do. But

1668
01:30:27,360 --> 01:30:29,679
Speaker 1: but but I was starting to be my concluding clots,

1669
01:30:29,840 --> 01:30:31,680
Speaker 1: so like we were thinking the same thing. Wiggle it

1670
01:30:31,720 --> 01:30:37,880
Speaker 1: into that. Okay, okay um. I think I said before

1671
01:30:37,880 --> 01:30:42,320
Speaker 1: the last time we did a podcast with Land, I

1672
01:30:42,320 --> 01:30:47,280
Speaker 1: had my allies and adversaries mixed up. But we need

1673
01:30:47,320 --> 01:30:51,080
Speaker 1: to find more allies outside of our blah blah blah.

1674
01:30:51,080 --> 01:30:52,479
Speaker 1: I think so. And I was of hunting and fishing,

1675
01:30:52,520 --> 01:30:57,000
Speaker 1: and I think likes to get more people. So the

1676
01:30:57,080 --> 01:31:00,879
Speaker 1: conservation isn't irrelevant. You know, we need to like expand

1677
01:31:00,880 --> 01:31:06,599
Speaker 1: and always be accepting and joining hands. And I think

1678
01:31:06,600 --> 01:31:10,400
Speaker 1: everybody knows that new hunters and fishermen and new recreators.

1679
01:31:10,520 --> 01:31:12,760
Speaker 1: Sometimes the hardest thing, one of the greatest hurdles we

1680
01:31:12,880 --> 01:31:16,080
Speaker 1: hear about all the time is the is access. You know,

1681
01:31:16,280 --> 01:31:18,360
Speaker 1: where to go, how to get in there, you know

1682
01:31:18,880 --> 01:31:20,679
Speaker 1: what I get into it. So I feel like that's

1683
01:31:20,720 --> 01:31:23,160
Speaker 1: where this, you know, it makes a lot of sense

1684
01:31:23,160 --> 01:31:25,200
Speaker 1: to me. It's like, let's let's keep it all. Let's

1685
01:31:25,240 --> 01:31:27,360
Speaker 1: keep it access because that is how we'll get more

1686
01:31:27,400 --> 01:31:29,680
Speaker 1: people into it, you know, And don't you know it

1687
01:31:29,720 --> 01:31:31,479
Speaker 1: all the time, but it's like it's like it doesn't

1688
01:31:31,479 --> 01:31:35,519
Speaker 1: really work. It's utopian. Why there's always people and I

1689
01:31:35,880 --> 01:31:38,519
Speaker 1: I there's always people who like want to bring in

1690
01:31:38,560 --> 01:31:42,880
Speaker 1: all the stakeholders. Yeah, okay, but you have so many

1691
01:31:42,960 --> 01:31:48,400
Speaker 1: conflicting stakeholders. But we can catch and release guys and

1692
01:31:48,479 --> 01:31:52,479
Speaker 1: the harpoon guys you got like like yes, yeah, but

1693
01:31:52,560 --> 01:31:54,880
Speaker 1: if they don't have the water, then it doesn't matter

1694
01:31:54,920 --> 01:31:59,040
Speaker 1: if they catch really so harpoon. I love the idea

1695
01:31:59,160 --> 01:32:01,920
Speaker 1: of having all all the stakeholders come together, but when

1696
01:32:01,920 --> 01:32:03,720
Speaker 1: they all come together, there's always like a lot of

1697
01:32:03,760 --> 01:32:08,240
Speaker 1: little things, the squabble, but the like yeah, I wouldn't

1698
01:32:08,280 --> 01:32:10,559
Speaker 1: really describe me syric CLU does they do a lot

1699
01:32:10,600 --> 01:32:13,320
Speaker 1: of great stuff. It happens to be that they often

1700
01:32:13,600 --> 01:32:16,960
Speaker 1: times are at odds with hunting. Sure, and that's why

1701
01:32:17,080 --> 01:32:21,200
Speaker 1: that's my point is that don't go into that conversation

1702
01:32:21,520 --> 01:32:24,200
Speaker 1: with the member of the Sierra Club thinking that they

1703
01:32:24,240 --> 01:32:28,280
Speaker 1: are immediately at odds at hunting. Tell them the meat

1704
01:32:28,280 --> 01:32:31,640
Speaker 1: eater message, the story, and I think a lot of

1705
01:32:31,680 --> 01:32:34,800
Speaker 1: times you'd be surprised that you can sway them and

1706
01:32:35,160 --> 01:32:37,680
Speaker 1: get and we can be on the same team. Yeah. No,

1707
01:32:37,840 --> 01:32:41,519
Speaker 1: I support it, I work toward it, but I just

1708
01:32:41,560 --> 01:32:46,160
Speaker 1: I'm starting to get I've started to get I don't know. No,

1709
01:32:46,280 --> 01:32:48,320
Speaker 1: I just think that you often we're just doing the

1710
01:32:48,360 --> 01:32:50,920
Speaker 1: opposite though. It's like instead of just being like, Oh,

1711
01:32:51,120 --> 01:32:55,720
Speaker 1: it's never gonna work. We're already like, screw those greenies.

1712
01:32:56,360 --> 01:32:59,599
Speaker 1: They're not gonna help our cause, where maybe they would

1713
01:32:59,680 --> 01:33:01,960
Speaker 1: if you just pitching the right story, which I think

1714
01:33:02,000 --> 01:33:07,040
Speaker 1: you do all the time unnoyingly through your words and

1715
01:33:07,080 --> 01:33:11,920
Speaker 1: show and whatnot. Onoul't you agree with that? Yeah, you

1716
01:33:11,960 --> 01:33:15,320
Speaker 1: were saying you showed your wife meeting, right, she wasn't

1717
01:33:15,320 --> 01:33:22,080
Speaker 1: gonna watch a hunt and show checks your thoughts at

1718
01:33:22,080 --> 01:33:25,599
Speaker 1: the end of your cluing thought, Um, you wanted him

1719
01:33:25,600 --> 01:33:29,360
Speaker 1: to go. Yeah, I do say, yeah, No, I mean

1720
01:33:29,960 --> 01:33:33,120
Speaker 1: people need to be involved. People need to be involved,

1721
01:33:33,120 --> 01:33:36,880
Speaker 1: and they need at least some taste to know at

1722
01:33:37,000 --> 01:33:39,479
Speaker 1: least what they're missing out on and at least a

1723
01:33:39,479 --> 01:33:43,640
Speaker 1: little bit of you know, people like us, like what

1724
01:33:43,800 --> 01:33:47,880
Speaker 1: makes us so crazy about it? Um? You know. The

1725
01:33:47,920 --> 01:33:50,320
Speaker 1: thing that that bugs me about conversations like this is

1726
01:33:50,360 --> 01:33:53,120
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people have a tendency to

1727
01:33:53,360 --> 01:33:57,160
Speaker 1: argue it as an US versus them, um, a rich

1728
01:33:57,280 --> 01:34:00,720
Speaker 1: versus poor issue. Yeah, like I was doing earlier, and

1729
01:34:00,880 --> 01:34:06,360
Speaker 1: I think that's dangerous as dangerous it is so easy

1730
01:34:06,479 --> 01:34:09,559
Speaker 1: and and like I'm not like I've studied rhetoric formally,

1731
01:34:10,439 --> 01:34:12,719
Speaker 1: and I know that if you want to win rhetoric

1732
01:34:13,280 --> 01:34:18,040
Speaker 1: rich versus poor cells. Yes, there's a lot more than

1733
01:34:18,280 --> 01:34:23,479
Speaker 1: as we've learned, as we learned now and the presidential race.

1734
01:34:24,439 --> 01:34:26,840
Speaker 1: You can do rich versus poor even when you're rich,

1735
01:34:28,240 --> 01:34:32,360
Speaker 1: which is weird. Yes, but I'm telling you, man, if

1736
01:34:32,520 --> 01:34:40,479
Speaker 1: you go out on a big public waterway and jam

1737
01:34:40,520 --> 01:34:43,120
Speaker 1: a harpoon through the guilt play, it's a big halibit

1738
01:34:43,160 --> 01:34:47,200
Speaker 1: and you watch this plume, beautiful red blood come up

1739
01:34:47,520 --> 01:34:51,719
Speaker 1: to the surface, Yeah, tell me more. I'm following you.

1740
01:34:51,720 --> 01:34:58,080
Speaker 1: You get so locked into this that you would fight

1741
01:34:58,120 --> 01:35:02,840
Speaker 1: to your dying breath to tech any access be you

1742
01:35:03,040 --> 01:35:06,519
Speaker 1: a New York State native in a canoe or a

1743
01:35:06,840 --> 01:35:11,720
Speaker 1: Montana fly fisherman, you know, trying to hop over a

1744
01:35:11,800 --> 01:35:17,200
Speaker 1: bridge as a legal access point. Did I wrap that up?

1745
01:35:17,920 --> 01:35:22,439
Speaker 1: Still floating? No, you're good, alright? Do I any other points? Nope? No, sir, Really,

1746
01:35:23,439 --> 01:35:26,439
Speaker 1: you're still getting text messages from the lawyer. Well I

1747
01:35:26,479 --> 01:35:31,439
Speaker 1: did today, why, just to try to to try to

1748
01:35:31,479 --> 01:35:37,120
Speaker 1: patch things up. No. No, I didn't make my own bed.

1749
01:35:38,560 --> 01:35:40,479
Speaker 1: I can't hear my own laundry, but I can make

1750
01:35:40,520 --> 01:35:43,400
Speaker 1: my own bead. What's your concluding thought, No, I think

1751
01:35:43,439 --> 01:35:48,200
Speaker 1: that just what Calah and that's he and I will

1752
01:35:48,320 --> 01:35:51,439
Speaker 1: reiterate his reiteration of what I said too. Is that

1753
01:35:51,640 --> 01:35:53,800
Speaker 1: your connection to it. If it's the big bloody plume,

1754
01:35:54,400 --> 01:35:57,280
Speaker 1: it's nature, it's wildlife, it's the outdoors, you're connected to it.

1755
01:35:57,320 --> 01:36:01,280
Speaker 1: You understart to understand by your own experience what access means,

1756
01:36:01,880 --> 01:36:05,400
Speaker 1: you know, And I think that's huge, And I think that, um, yeah,

1757
01:36:05,400 --> 01:36:08,799
Speaker 1: it's something different for everybody, and it's something different wherever

1758
01:36:08,840 --> 01:36:11,479
Speaker 1: you are and however you play. But the more that

1759
01:36:11,560 --> 01:36:15,680
Speaker 1: you can tie your own experience into sharing it with

1760
01:36:15,720 --> 01:36:18,519
Speaker 1: others and passing it on down, then that's when we

1761
01:36:18,560 --> 01:36:22,479
Speaker 1: all start to understand it a little bit better. Good

1762
01:36:23,600 --> 01:36:25,120
Speaker 1: are You're gonna come back to you in a minute.

1763
01:36:25,560 --> 01:36:27,040
Speaker 1: You think I have something more to say. No, my

1764
01:36:27,080 --> 01:36:30,840
Speaker 1: compluting thought is a question. Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna

1765
01:36:30,880 --> 01:36:32,519
Speaker 1: skip out of turn because I want to end with

1766
01:36:32,560 --> 01:36:37,719
Speaker 1: your deal you're cooking. I'm just wait. Here's my compluting thought.

1767
01:36:38,640 --> 01:36:41,920
Speaker 1: If you're as a guy. As a guy, let's say

1768
01:36:41,920 --> 01:36:45,920
Speaker 1: you take a client out and you you take them

1769
01:36:45,920 --> 01:36:48,080
Speaker 1: down a stretch river and you're like, here's what's up,

1770
01:36:48,160 --> 01:36:51,639
Speaker 1: Here's where the fish like the lay, Here's what we're

1771
01:36:51,880 --> 01:36:54,880
Speaker 1: getting them on right now, do this, do that? Don't

1772
01:36:54,920 --> 01:36:57,600
Speaker 1: bother there? I know that whole looks just like that

1773
01:36:57,720 --> 01:36:59,840
Speaker 1: whole wherever there's no fish, and this whole gold fish

1774
01:36:59,880 --> 01:37:03,960
Speaker 1: that hole. And the next day there he is. Do

1775
01:37:04,040 --> 01:37:07,000
Speaker 1: you get piste or are you happy? I'm happy now,

1776
01:37:07,200 --> 01:37:09,840
Speaker 1: I'm not kidding, but are you not? Is that a

1777
01:37:09,920 --> 01:37:12,960
Speaker 1: normal guide feeling or a not normal guide feeling? Yeah?

1778
01:37:12,960 --> 01:37:14,960
Speaker 1: So I know what you're talking about, because there are

1779
01:37:15,040 --> 01:37:17,400
Speaker 1: guides that I've been to different places, you know, have

1780
01:37:17,520 --> 01:37:19,519
Speaker 1: fish all over the country and everything. And there's places

1781
01:37:19,560 --> 01:37:23,320
Speaker 1: I go where I genuinely, sincerely have no idea what

1782
01:37:23,400 --> 01:37:26,360
Speaker 1: happens in that fishery. And I step up and they

1783
01:37:26,360 --> 01:37:28,559
Speaker 1: could tell him and ask him what what they're using,

1784
01:37:28,560 --> 01:37:30,360
Speaker 1: what flies are using. I'll cover up the fly that

1785
01:37:30,360 --> 01:37:31,920
Speaker 1: they have on the rod with their hand. They don't

1786
01:37:31,920 --> 01:37:34,160
Speaker 1: want me to see it, you know, or else. Sometimes

1787
01:37:34,160 --> 01:37:36,559
Speaker 1: guides always talk about how the flies in your hat

1788
01:37:36,640 --> 01:37:38,320
Speaker 1: up here, these flies up in my hat. This is

1789
01:37:38,320 --> 01:37:40,720
Speaker 1: actually when I'm fishing. But there's lots of places you

1790
01:37:40,720 --> 01:37:44,120
Speaker 1: go where they intentionally put the wrong fly in their

1791
01:37:44,120 --> 01:37:47,040
Speaker 1: hat to make you think as a visitor, that's what

1792
01:37:47,120 --> 01:37:49,120
Speaker 1: you use. And then you're the dork out there, you know,

1793
01:37:49,560 --> 01:37:51,800
Speaker 1: throwing big chubbies and that's not what they're using, using

1794
01:37:51,840 --> 01:37:55,439
Speaker 1: tiny p you know. So it's like that it does

1795
01:37:55,479 --> 01:37:59,160
Speaker 1: exist what you're talking about. However, where where I live

1796
01:37:59,560 --> 01:38:01,479
Speaker 1: in Glay Sure Country, we have a lot to share.

1797
01:38:01,680 --> 01:38:05,160
Speaker 1: So it's not just the rivers and the fish. I mean, honestly,

1798
01:38:05,240 --> 01:38:08,080
Speaker 1: don't care. I don't care. There he is the next

1799
01:38:08,160 --> 01:38:12,360
Speaker 1: day standing in the Yeah, and you're like, how do

1800
01:38:12,720 --> 01:38:15,960
Speaker 1: I know this guy both that I guided him here yesterday?

1801
01:38:16,280 --> 01:38:20,040
Speaker 1: You're like, hey, he's gonna have giardia in a few

1802
01:38:20,080 --> 01:38:22,719
Speaker 1: hours anyway, He's no, I'm just kidding. No, I am

1803
01:38:22,760 --> 01:38:25,280
Speaker 1: talking to a guy with incredible wealth and knowledge of

1804
01:38:25,280 --> 01:38:28,960
Speaker 1: the area. Though too some you know, Greenhorn comes in

1805
01:38:29,120 --> 01:38:33,920
Speaker 1: and goes to the spot where he caught the fish.

1806
01:38:34,080 --> 01:38:38,000
Speaker 1: He's not going to catch a fish. He's gonna catch

1807
01:38:38,000 --> 01:38:40,599
Speaker 1: fish in that, but you know he's not. He's got

1808
01:38:40,600 --> 01:38:42,479
Speaker 1: a lot to work. Yeah, Like, yeah, I get it.

1809
01:38:42,560 --> 01:38:46,639
Speaker 1: They don't know, Hilary, he's still gonna do that. Yeah. No,

1810
01:38:47,400 --> 01:38:49,519
Speaker 1: it was more of it. And I'm not asking because

1811
01:38:49,560 --> 01:38:52,000
Speaker 1: I want to understand her perspective' asked, just to understand

1812
01:38:52,439 --> 01:38:55,120
Speaker 1: this thing I'm in my head and I'm just curious

1813
01:38:55,520 --> 01:38:57,040
Speaker 1: and I am plotting the thing out in my head,

1814
01:38:57,840 --> 01:39:00,600
Speaker 1: trying to wag whether how on coal it is to

1815
01:39:00,640 --> 01:39:02,800
Speaker 1: do what I want to do. And I was just

1816
01:39:02,920 --> 01:39:06,000
Speaker 1: seeking some opinion from a guide. No, I personally have

1817
01:39:06,040 --> 01:39:09,639
Speaker 1: no go screw a guide over. No. I mean there's

1818
01:39:09,640 --> 01:39:13,439
Speaker 1: a typical fy I, this is what I look like.

1819
01:39:13,760 --> 01:39:16,640
Speaker 1: I can't see me. Um. No. I mean, there's definitely

1820
01:39:16,760 --> 01:39:19,519
Speaker 1: ethics involved, but that isn't one of the things that

1821
01:39:19,640 --> 01:39:21,439
Speaker 1: bugs me. And it happens all the time, you know,

1822
01:39:21,640 --> 01:39:23,840
Speaker 1: and a lot of times. To be real honest, To

1823
01:39:23,840 --> 01:39:26,400
Speaker 1: take it a step further, people will come into my

1824
01:39:26,400 --> 01:39:28,160
Speaker 1: shop and they'll book a trip with me, and then

1825
01:39:28,160 --> 01:39:30,920
Speaker 1: I'll draw them a map for the next day literally

1826
01:39:30,960 --> 01:39:32,439
Speaker 1: and give them the flies for the next day, because

1827
01:39:32,439 --> 01:39:34,080
Speaker 1: I want them to do it right. I don't want

1828
01:39:34,120 --> 01:39:36,200
Speaker 1: them to go out there and do it wrong. So

1829
01:39:36,320 --> 01:39:39,200
Speaker 1: if they book a trip, they fish with you on Monday, yea,

1830
01:39:39,560 --> 01:39:41,720
Speaker 1: they're still in town. Yeah, you're like, Okay, here's what

1831
01:39:41,720 --> 01:39:43,200
Speaker 1: you ought to do tomorrow. Yeah you bet, And it's

1832
01:39:43,200 --> 01:39:45,560
Speaker 1: going to be legit like it's super serious. I'm not

1833
01:39:45,560 --> 01:39:47,120
Speaker 1: going to send them in the wrong spot. I'm not

1834
01:39:47,160 --> 01:39:48,599
Speaker 1: going to send them where I want them to go,

1835
01:39:48,640 --> 01:39:50,760
Speaker 1: because that's not where the fish are anything like that.

1836
01:39:50,800 --> 01:39:53,320
Speaker 1: It's really really sincere and honest. And the reason is

1837
01:39:53,600 --> 01:39:55,360
Speaker 1: it's because I know what I'm talking about, and I

1838
01:39:55,400 --> 01:39:57,640
Speaker 1: want them to do it right. I don't want them to,

1839
01:39:58,040 --> 01:40:00,320
Speaker 1: you know, mess it up out there. I don't. I don't.

1840
01:40:00,320 --> 01:40:01,920
Speaker 1: I want them to go out there with as much

1841
01:40:01,960 --> 01:40:04,280
Speaker 1: knowledge on their own that I can give them in

1842
01:40:04,320 --> 01:40:07,719
Speaker 1: my boat, and I really do. Again, maybe it's Pollyanna,

1843
01:40:07,760 --> 01:40:09,559
Speaker 1: but I feel like most of the guide community is

1844
01:40:09,600 --> 01:40:12,439
Speaker 1: the same way. We want to educate people about the fishery.

1845
01:40:12,680 --> 01:40:14,400
Speaker 1: We don't want to start mouthing fish. We want them

1846
01:40:14,400 --> 01:40:16,639
Speaker 1: taking care of the fish. We don't want them, you know,

1847
01:40:16,720 --> 01:40:19,040
Speaker 1: to not pinch their barbs. We want barbs pinch. We

1848
01:40:19,080 --> 01:40:21,360
Speaker 1: want them to have fun so that they come back

1849
01:40:21,400 --> 01:40:24,000
Speaker 1: and experience it. We don't want to send it up, yeah,

1850
01:40:24,160 --> 01:40:26,559
Speaker 1: stand on private land or make a mess like. We

1851
01:40:26,600 --> 01:40:29,760
Speaker 1: want them to have a freaking blast like we do.

1852
01:40:29,920 --> 01:40:32,479
Speaker 1: We really sincerely do. And so no, it does not

1853
01:40:32,600 --> 01:40:35,680
Speaker 1: bother me when I see somebody out there, um publicly

1854
01:40:35,960 --> 01:40:38,880
Speaker 1: fishing a place that I've guided them previously. Or I

1855
01:40:38,920 --> 01:40:40,720
Speaker 1: also don't look at them and go oh, those could

1856
01:40:40,760 --> 01:40:43,200
Speaker 1: be my dollars, like I could have taken them today.

1857
01:40:43,560 --> 01:40:46,120
Speaker 1: You know, I think I think that that rising tide

1858
01:40:46,120 --> 01:40:49,080
Speaker 1: floats all boats, getting more people out there. And and

1859
01:40:49,479 --> 01:40:52,280
Speaker 1: when I say more people, I'm not advocating for crazy

1860
01:40:52,280 --> 01:40:54,880
Speaker 1: pressure on these rivers. I'm saying that the more public

1861
01:40:54,920 --> 01:40:56,960
Speaker 1: access we have, the more spread out we can be.

1862
01:40:57,479 --> 01:41:01,360
Speaker 1: If we start to pinch ourselves down by limiting public access,

1863
01:41:01,720 --> 01:41:03,960
Speaker 1: then then that's gonna happen. That's gonna start to happen.

1864
01:41:04,000 --> 01:41:05,920
Speaker 1: I've seen it in Utah all the time. I get

1865
01:41:06,000 --> 01:41:08,679
Speaker 1: high hold and low hold by people and by guides

1866
01:41:08,840 --> 01:41:12,519
Speaker 1: actually and child high hole and low hole. So many holes,

1867
01:41:12,600 --> 01:41:18,719
Speaker 1: so there's um if you're fishing, uh and somebody drops

1868
01:41:18,720 --> 01:41:20,600
Speaker 1: in on you, same kind of goes in where you are,

1869
01:41:20,680 --> 01:41:23,000
Speaker 1: and then they go above you and you're working your

1870
01:41:23,000 --> 01:41:27,080
Speaker 1: way up maybe and then they steal that hole. That's

1871
01:41:27,240 --> 01:41:28,960
Speaker 1: you're getting high hold. And then the same thing for

1872
01:41:29,000 --> 01:41:31,080
Speaker 1: when you're getting low hold. And in boats, it's really

1873
01:41:31,080 --> 01:41:33,920
Speaker 1: easy to low hold somebody else. You pass them and

1874
01:41:34,000 --> 01:41:35,920
Speaker 1: you can drop in on them. And a lot of

1875
01:41:35,960 --> 01:41:40,439
Speaker 1: times that's ethically okay because you're leap frogging you kind

1876
01:41:40,479 --> 01:41:42,360
Speaker 1: of like get into this rhythm where you can leap

1877
01:41:42,360 --> 01:41:45,840
Speaker 1: frogging boats and it can be okay um. But if

1878
01:41:45,920 --> 01:41:48,400
Speaker 1: you're both anchored up and fishing and then you get

1879
01:41:48,400 --> 01:41:51,040
Speaker 1: ready to go and they drop in before you, you know,

1880
01:41:51,280 --> 01:41:53,400
Speaker 1: that can be low holding you too. You're you're getting

1881
01:41:53,400 --> 01:41:55,720
Speaker 1: ready to go and they look over their shoulder and

1882
01:41:55,720 --> 01:41:58,040
Speaker 1: see you and then push, push, push and go and

1883
01:41:58,040 --> 01:42:00,519
Speaker 1: they're kind of low holding you. So it can happening

1884
01:42:00,640 --> 01:42:02,639
Speaker 1: on foot, and it can happen in the boat or whatever.

1885
01:42:02,680 --> 01:42:05,759
Speaker 1: And that's just regular guide ethics. But it happens more

1886
01:42:06,040 --> 01:42:08,640
Speaker 1: when there's less public access because now you are in

1887
01:42:08,680 --> 01:42:11,280
Speaker 1: a battle and now I am racing against the clock

1888
01:42:11,320 --> 01:42:13,640
Speaker 1: and on fish and like trying to get you know,

1889
01:42:13,680 --> 01:42:17,120
Speaker 1: my people happy, and and I think that just recreational

1890
01:42:17,120 --> 01:42:19,840
Speaker 1: fishing on foot. That's when the fights happen. That's when

1891
01:42:19,840 --> 01:42:22,719
Speaker 1: people are like, this is my waters, my water, because

1892
01:42:22,720 --> 01:42:25,599
Speaker 1: now you're pinched in Utah. When we've got one mile

1893
01:42:25,720 --> 01:42:27,920
Speaker 1: we can fish in a certain stretch and you've got

1894
01:42:27,920 --> 01:42:30,720
Speaker 1: six people all just low hole in each other. Then

1895
01:42:30,760 --> 01:42:33,800
Speaker 1: that gets real tense, you know, and you're not gonna

1896
01:42:33,840 --> 01:42:36,360
Speaker 1: catch fish because people are trumping all over the place.

1897
01:42:36,760 --> 01:42:39,640
Speaker 1: So that's what happens when we have less area, not

1898
01:42:39,680 --> 01:42:42,760
Speaker 1: a real good outdoor experience. No. Absolutely, let me ask

1899
01:42:42,800 --> 01:42:47,040
Speaker 1: you this question. One day I was fishing and waiting

1900
01:42:48,280 --> 01:42:50,200
Speaker 1: and I come around a corner there as a guide.

1901
01:42:50,920 --> 01:42:52,280
Speaker 1: These guts. This a little picture, you know, they sit

1902
01:42:52,360 --> 01:42:55,000
Speaker 1: up those little tables and your clients there, and they

1903
01:42:55,040 --> 01:42:58,240
Speaker 1: got like wine out. It's just they're having like the

1904
01:42:58,280 --> 01:43:01,679
Speaker 1: little shore lunch cheesey karack or right. And he's camped

1905
01:43:01,720 --> 01:43:05,280
Speaker 1: out on this hole. And on my way up waiting up,

1906
01:43:05,360 --> 01:43:07,519
Speaker 1: I fished the hole where he's camped out having his lunch.

1907
01:43:07,600 --> 01:43:12,880
Speaker 1: And this guy goes ballistic online or not outline. Uh,

1908
01:43:13,040 --> 01:43:16,400
Speaker 1: you know again, I might be different about this. Not

1909
01:43:16,479 --> 01:43:18,839
Speaker 1: out of line for me. I mean, like for me again,

1910
01:43:19,000 --> 01:43:20,640
Speaker 1: I swear to God, I would invite you to come

1911
01:43:20,720 --> 01:43:22,600
Speaker 1: up and have some wine with us, you know. I

1912
01:43:22,600 --> 01:43:26,280
Speaker 1: mean that's just because we got in a screaming unbelievable Yeah,

1913
01:43:26,360 --> 01:43:28,040
Speaker 1: not out of line for me. No, It's like it's

1914
01:43:28,080 --> 01:43:30,600
Speaker 1: not we're taking we're taking a break. And he was

1915
01:43:30,640 --> 01:43:33,320
Speaker 1: in a boat. Yeah, I can see that conversation happening

1916
01:43:33,360 --> 01:43:35,880
Speaker 1: at the bar if you bumped into That's part two

1917
01:43:35,920 --> 01:43:39,400
Speaker 1: of the story on the shore. In part two of

1918
01:43:39,439 --> 01:43:42,040
Speaker 1: the stories, we wound up drinking in the same bar. Yeah,

1919
01:43:42,400 --> 01:43:45,120
Speaker 1: and my girlfriend was a bartender in the bar, and

1920
01:43:45,160 --> 01:43:47,080
Speaker 1: he had a girlfriend who was a bartender in the bar.

1921
01:43:47,360 --> 01:43:49,880
Speaker 1: And we want up hash later in a much more

1922
01:43:49,960 --> 01:43:52,920
Speaker 1: friendly way and agreed to disagree. He said, no, wait,

1923
01:43:53,680 --> 01:43:56,559
Speaker 1: he goes, You don't know that I have fished it,

1924
01:43:56,720 --> 01:43:59,720
Speaker 1: am gonna fish it. I'm holding the hole. No, that's

1925
01:43:59,720 --> 01:44:03,880
Speaker 1: not a thing. You can't hold. No, that guy is not.

1926
01:44:06,200 --> 01:44:09,200
Speaker 1: There is no holding the whole. No, let the whole

1927
01:44:09,240 --> 01:44:11,960
Speaker 1: be free. I hope that's not. Should listen and I'm

1928
01:44:11,960 --> 01:44:14,759
Speaker 1: sure I'm sure he is, and he's changing his ways

1929
01:44:14,840 --> 01:44:17,320
Speaker 1: right this. You know what that thing that happened twelve

1930
01:44:17,400 --> 01:44:20,880
Speaker 1: years ago. No, but if you came to Montana right now,

1931
01:44:20,920 --> 01:44:23,280
Speaker 1: I think you know we're we fish and stuff. That's

1932
01:44:23,320 --> 01:44:26,240
Speaker 1: not a thing now you don't. It's ridiculous. You don't

1933
01:44:26,280 --> 01:44:28,599
Speaker 1: stick a steak in and like your fly your flag.

1934
01:44:29,479 --> 01:44:32,519
Speaker 1: Because that's the only reason I want to tell a

1935
01:44:32,560 --> 01:44:35,479
Speaker 1: whole holding story. Do you know what time we started? Guy?

1936
01:44:35,840 --> 01:44:40,120
Speaker 1: Ye about wrapping it up to you? Well, real quick,

1937
01:44:41,040 --> 01:44:43,960
Speaker 1: we use fish great Lakes, whitefish in the Sioux Edison

1938
01:44:44,040 --> 01:44:47,479
Speaker 1: hydro Electric Dam, and there's like forty two turbans, and

1939
01:44:47,520 --> 01:44:49,800
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, Turban number twenty seven would get a

1940
01:44:49,840 --> 01:44:51,600
Speaker 1: lot of fish in it, and old men like to

1941
01:44:51,640 --> 01:44:54,280
Speaker 1: fish it and they would get up very very early

1942
01:44:54,400 --> 01:44:57,360
Speaker 1: and go tie off. So where the water comes out

1943
01:44:57,400 --> 01:44:59,280
Speaker 1: of the turban, there's for whatever reason he studs in

1944
01:44:59,320 --> 01:45:01,840
Speaker 1: the ceiling. You could tie a rope around the stud

1945
01:45:01,840 --> 01:45:04,639
Speaker 1: and hold yourself right in the outflow turban and drift

1946
01:45:04,640 --> 01:45:08,000
Speaker 1: flies for whitefish. We would go to the bar and

1947
01:45:08,080 --> 01:45:10,640
Speaker 1: close the bar, then get in our boat and go

1948
01:45:10,840 --> 01:45:14,680
Speaker 1: sleep in the turban. And that would be very irritating

1949
01:45:14,720 --> 01:45:18,320
Speaker 1: to people who would get up at five and we

1950
01:45:18,320 --> 01:45:20,519
Speaker 1: were just sleeping in sleeping bags and the bottom of

1951
01:45:20,520 --> 01:45:24,000
Speaker 1: a boat holding the hole that would lead to some

1952
01:45:24,200 --> 01:45:29,559
Speaker 1: cross looks. That is hero hole holding that I've learned

1953
01:45:29,560 --> 01:45:32,439
Speaker 1: a lot of terms today here is that it's one

1954
01:45:32,960 --> 01:45:35,760
Speaker 1: remember remember what I yeah, yeah, I know. Um, I think,

1955
01:45:35,880 --> 01:45:37,920
Speaker 1: like probably my cluding thought is I think this piece

1956
01:45:37,960 --> 01:45:39,680
Speaker 1: about us first, then you know, and I think we

1957
01:45:39,720 --> 01:45:41,920
Speaker 1: all lose when that happens. And whether that's the rich,

1958
01:45:42,040 --> 01:45:46,000
Speaker 1: verst poor or private landowners versus the like unwashed public,

1959
01:45:46,040 --> 01:45:49,800
Speaker 1: I think we lose. And I think we all love

1960
01:45:49,840 --> 01:45:53,360
Speaker 1: America America losers really and and I think one thing

1961
01:45:53,439 --> 01:45:57,200
Speaker 1: that UM that anglers can do a better job of.

1962
01:45:57,360 --> 01:45:59,559
Speaker 1: Hillary brought it up being stewards, but it's also not

1963
01:45:59,600 --> 01:46:01,880
Speaker 1: being at actors. You know, we talk about like the

1964
01:46:01,880 --> 01:46:05,800
Speaker 1: garbage that gets left places or um letting your dogs run.

1965
01:46:05,840 --> 01:46:07,639
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's all stuff that we can control

1966
01:46:07,680 --> 01:46:10,240
Speaker 1: on our end to make sure that those relationships stay

1967
01:46:10,280 --> 01:46:13,080
Speaker 1: better and alleviate tension. Alleviate tension. And I think another

1968
01:46:13,080 --> 01:46:14,759
Speaker 1: thing that Hillary brought up is like, you know, knocking

1969
01:46:14,760 --> 01:46:16,599
Speaker 1: on doors and even though you know that there's public

1970
01:46:16,640 --> 01:46:20,559
Speaker 1: access there, uh and you can and you can legally

1971
01:46:20,600 --> 01:46:22,360
Speaker 1: access it, letting them know that you're gonna be there.

1972
01:46:22,360 --> 01:46:23,800
Speaker 1: It's just one of these friendly things that I think

1973
01:46:23,800 --> 01:46:26,040
Speaker 1: we're getting away from in the society. And you know,

1974
01:46:26,360 --> 01:46:30,160
Speaker 1: I wrote down the plain from Zula and was sat

1975
01:46:30,240 --> 01:46:32,080
Speaker 1: next to a guy who's a landowner and we were

1976
01:46:32,120 --> 01:46:34,080
Speaker 1: talking about this issue, and he said, you know, I

1977
01:46:34,160 --> 01:46:36,719
Speaker 1: have a place down southwest Montana and above my house

1978
01:46:36,800 --> 01:46:39,679
Speaker 1: about a mile there's a river access site. Below my house,

1979
01:46:39,680 --> 01:46:42,439
Speaker 1: there's a river access site, and people are trespassing all

1980
01:46:42,479 --> 01:46:44,479
Speaker 1: the time through my property. And when I go out

1981
01:46:44,479 --> 01:46:46,400
Speaker 1: and try to have a normal conversation with him, and

1982
01:46:46,439 --> 01:46:49,000
Speaker 1: be hey, there's legal access up river and down river,

1983
01:46:49,080 --> 01:46:50,639
Speaker 1: and then you can way back and forth all you want.

1984
01:46:50,880 --> 01:46:52,880
Speaker 1: We're getting a big yelling, screaming match about no, this

1985
01:46:52,920 --> 01:46:54,720
Speaker 1: is my river and I have stream access. And so

1986
01:46:55,360 --> 01:46:58,080
Speaker 1: that to me that then that story gets told by

1987
01:46:58,080 --> 01:47:00,360
Speaker 1: that landowner to another landowner, and then that is that

1988
01:47:00,400 --> 01:47:03,000
Speaker 1: way from their ten fifteen years that one story. So

1989
01:47:03,040 --> 01:47:05,759
Speaker 1: I think we can be better actors as just anglers

1990
01:47:05,840 --> 01:47:09,040
Speaker 1: in general. Um. And and so that's a segue into

1991
01:47:09,200 --> 01:47:12,320
Speaker 1: then knowing what the laws are right and and we've

1992
01:47:12,320 --> 01:47:14,320
Speaker 1: talked about some of the differences, and I'll just take

1993
01:47:14,760 --> 01:47:18,280
Speaker 1: you know, Montana, Wyoming, in Colorado. This is a difference

1994
01:47:18,280 --> 01:47:20,320
Speaker 1: in Montana where we have great stream access. You know,

1995
01:47:20,360 --> 01:47:22,320
Speaker 1: I can access up to the high water mark I

1996
01:47:22,400 --> 01:47:24,400
Speaker 1: go down to Wyoming or Colorado, and we've talked about it.

1997
01:47:24,439 --> 01:47:27,720
Speaker 1: If my anchors uh in the water, um, I'm trespassing.

1998
01:47:27,800 --> 01:47:30,439
Speaker 1: I can't really wait at all on private land like no,

1999
01:47:30,640 --> 01:47:33,680
Speaker 1: the laws and and so that you know that, Like

2000
01:47:33,880 --> 01:47:37,280
Speaker 1: I think we've talked about how in Montana prav landowners

2001
01:47:37,320 --> 01:47:40,439
Speaker 1: gonna have to post their land for trespassing like no,

2002
01:47:40,600 --> 01:47:43,720
Speaker 1: the law, we have the user responsibility. No, No, the law,

2003
01:47:43,720 --> 01:47:47,080
Speaker 1: and so as as back country hunters and anglers, that's

2004
01:47:47,120 --> 01:47:49,679
Speaker 1: what we're trying to do with our Stream Access Now campaign. First,

2005
01:47:49,720 --> 01:47:52,599
Speaker 1: it's just create awareness and so one you keep yourself legal,

2006
01:47:53,800 --> 01:47:55,320
Speaker 1: and so you know, when I go to their state

2007
01:47:55,360 --> 01:47:57,200
Speaker 1: and I'm over a bridge and I see some awesome

2008
01:47:57,200 --> 01:47:59,640
Speaker 1: sexy water, I want to go access that. But I

2009
01:47:59,640 --> 01:48:01,200
Speaker 1: got to the law before I jump and put my

2010
01:48:01,200 --> 01:48:02,559
Speaker 1: toe in one because I can get in a lot

2011
01:48:02,600 --> 01:48:04,400
Speaker 1: of trouble the position I'm in. But too, like, that's

2012
01:48:04,400 --> 01:48:06,479
Speaker 1: just a good thing for me to know. So the

2013
01:48:06,479 --> 01:48:08,320
Speaker 1: first one is just like knowing what I think the

2014
01:48:08,360 --> 01:48:11,400
Speaker 1: laws are. But then as as something Cal said is

2015
01:48:11,439 --> 01:48:15,360
Speaker 1: that if you don't know what you have, then why

2016
01:48:15,400 --> 01:48:16,920
Speaker 1: are you going to try to stand up and defend it?

2017
01:48:17,000 --> 01:48:19,479
Speaker 1: So that's one. If you don't know that things can

2018
01:48:19,520 --> 01:48:21,559
Speaker 1: be better, then why would you work to try to

2019
01:48:21,560 --> 01:48:24,200
Speaker 1: make them better. And so by understanding the differences of

2020
01:48:24,200 --> 01:48:26,200
Speaker 1: stream access laws all across this country and what it

2021
01:48:26,280 --> 01:48:28,719
Speaker 1: is for you in your own state, you can decide

2022
01:48:28,720 --> 01:48:30,760
Speaker 1: on whether that's a place where you want to try

2023
01:48:30,760 --> 01:48:32,000
Speaker 1: to make it better or if it's something you want

2024
01:48:32,000 --> 01:48:34,040
Speaker 1: to hold on too. So I think that education piece

2025
01:48:34,120 --> 01:48:37,400
Speaker 1: is gigantic and as confusing as some of this stuff

2026
01:48:37,439 --> 01:48:39,960
Speaker 1: was today and I get I appreciate you keep on

2027
01:48:40,880 --> 01:48:42,720
Speaker 1: bringing that back in the world. Will let's slow down

2028
01:48:42,720 --> 01:48:46,080
Speaker 1: and like explain this is because this stuff gets complicated

2029
01:48:46,080 --> 01:48:48,000
Speaker 1: really quickly. And so what we're trying to do is

2030
01:48:48,040 --> 01:48:50,120
Speaker 1: create a place where you have one place to go

2031
01:48:50,160 --> 01:48:52,519
Speaker 1: where you can you know what is legal, what is not,

2032
01:48:52,800 --> 01:48:55,640
Speaker 1: and how to find that information. Um, we're compiling that

2033
01:48:55,760 --> 01:48:58,760
Speaker 1: right now and state state by state, and nobody's ever

2034
01:48:58,800 --> 01:49:02,120
Speaker 1: done that before. What stream access like in Hawaii, I

2035
01:49:02,160 --> 01:49:06,120
Speaker 1: will tell you here in December, I'm going Actually my

2036
01:49:06,160 --> 01:49:08,720
Speaker 1: mother in law turned seventy and believe it or not,

2037
01:49:08,800 --> 01:49:12,920
Speaker 1: on Kauaie there are natural um occurring and not natural

2038
01:49:12,960 --> 01:49:15,000
Speaker 1: but they they planned them. And but now they're naturally

2039
01:49:15,040 --> 01:49:19,600
Speaker 1: reproducing rainbow trout on Kauai, which is gonna be absolutely

2040
01:49:19,680 --> 01:49:23,320
Speaker 1: crazy to go fish these little teeny streams with a guide. First,

2041
01:49:23,600 --> 01:49:25,280
Speaker 1: I'm gonna try to figure it out for myself. I'm

2042
01:49:25,280 --> 01:49:27,599
Speaker 1: gonna maybe one or two other days, go to their

2043
01:49:27,600 --> 01:49:29,320
Speaker 1: honeyoals will be sitting on there. I'm gonna hole hold

2044
01:49:29,320 --> 01:49:34,240
Speaker 1: on them, hold on here, hold holder. I'll be a

2045
01:49:34,240 --> 01:49:38,240
Speaker 1: Howley hero hold holder. And that we're arguing U. So

2046
01:49:38,280 --> 01:49:41,280
Speaker 1: I think it's that education piece first, UM. And then

2047
01:49:41,360 --> 01:49:44,439
Speaker 1: second like there's like we've heard about a couple of

2048
01:49:44,439 --> 01:49:47,200
Speaker 1: them already, but down in Utah Utah Stream Access Coalition

2049
01:49:47,640 --> 01:49:51,200
Speaker 1: U Montiana, it's really the Public man Water Access Association.

2050
01:49:51,240 --> 01:49:53,639
Speaker 1: There's these groups that are kind of starting to build

2051
01:49:53,680 --> 01:49:55,760
Speaker 1: coalitions in these states, and so we want to one

2052
01:49:55,800 --> 01:49:58,799
Speaker 1: help amplify their voices. And in places like New Mexico

2053
01:49:58,840 --> 01:50:01,439
Speaker 1: where they just lost bill by four votes in our

2054
01:50:01,439 --> 01:50:04,559
Speaker 1: state legislature that restricted stream access, we want to make

2055
01:50:04,560 --> 01:50:06,519
Speaker 1: sure there's a coalition so the next time that we

2056
01:50:06,560 --> 01:50:09,439
Speaker 1: have an opportunity to get that law changed, that we

2057
01:50:09,479 --> 01:50:11,559
Speaker 1: have people coming together. And so that's happening in New Mexico,

2058
01:50:11,920 --> 01:50:14,800
Speaker 1: and so we want to you know, we can't be

2059
01:50:14,840 --> 01:50:16,559
Speaker 1: all places all the time. What we can be as

2060
01:50:16,840 --> 01:50:20,679
Speaker 1: facilitators and amplify voices, right, and so trying to educate

2061
01:50:20,800 --> 01:50:23,400
Speaker 1: and motivate and then inspire people to do stuff. So

2062
01:50:23,720 --> 01:50:26,519
Speaker 1: UM stream Access now is this campaign. We've had an

2063
01:50:26,520 --> 01:50:29,320
Speaker 1: awesome corporate partner. I mean Hillary talked about you know,

2064
01:50:29,360 --> 01:50:31,360
Speaker 1: this is a huge piece of business, right If you

2065
01:50:31,360 --> 01:50:34,559
Speaker 1: don't have access, this whole fishing industry pretty much goes away,

2066
01:50:34,760 --> 01:50:36,600
Speaker 1: and yes, there will still be people fishing, but it

2067
01:50:36,640 --> 01:50:38,920
Speaker 1: won't be as robust and sustainable as it is right now.

2068
01:50:39,360 --> 01:50:41,840
Speaker 1: And so you know, um yet he is stepped up

2069
01:50:41,920 --> 01:50:47,160
Speaker 1: coast to fish pond, Sage Reddington, um fly lines. Women

2070
01:50:47,200 --> 01:50:49,240
Speaker 1: in Montown's making an awesome little lanyards out of use

2071
01:50:49,320 --> 01:50:56,680
Speaker 1: fly line. So like the industry unders the industry understands it. Uh.

2072
01:50:56,720 --> 01:50:58,479
Speaker 1: And then I think the public is starting to understand it,

2073
01:50:58,520 --> 01:50:59,720
Speaker 1: but they need to be educated about it. And that's

2074
01:50:59,760 --> 01:51:02,519
Speaker 1: pretty of what we're done. There. You have it? Is that? So?

2075
01:51:02,680 --> 01:51:05,479
Speaker 1: Is it like a website? Stream access now you can

2076
01:51:05,520 --> 01:51:07,760
Speaker 1: go to this dot org dot org. You can also

2077
01:51:07,800 --> 01:51:09,559
Speaker 1: find it through our back country Hunters and Anglers dot

2078
01:51:09,640 --> 01:51:12,439
Speaker 1: org site. We have it on there as well. All right, folks,

2079
01:51:13,479 --> 01:51:17,759
Speaker 1: stream access now. Next time you find yourself buzzing along

2080
01:51:17,800 --> 01:51:20,439
Speaker 1: fishing Walleye and you realize that you got a golf

2081
01:51:20,479 --> 01:51:22,080
Speaker 1: course on one side in the house on the other,

2082
01:51:23,000 --> 01:51:27,000
Speaker 1: think about it. Stay tuned in. All right, Thank you

2083
01:51:27,000 --> 01:51:28,599
Speaker 1: guys very much. Man, Thank you