1 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, and welcome to Bleep. This week, we're going 2 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: to have a very important conversation with Pulitzer Prize winning 3 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:20,800 Speaker 1: journalists and staff writer Sarah Stillman about her New Yorker 4 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 1: article The Return of Family Detention. Sarah reported on the 5 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: thousands of immigrant children that have been detained and suffered 6 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:35,199 Speaker 1: from medical neglect under the Trump administration. It is simply 7 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:40,879 Speaker 1: horrifying and a crucial story that not enough people are 8 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:44,839 Speaker 1: hearing about, talking about, or know about. We must not 9 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 1: let these things go by without learning about them. But first, 10 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:51,959 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about the crazy shit Trump did 11 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 1: this week. So to add to the money spent on 12 00:00:56,720 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: the reflecting pool and to add to the now one 13 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 1: point five billion budget request for his ballroom, he is 14 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: now in the middle of building a temporary five thousand 15 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: seat UFC arena, which started construction on the White House 16 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: lawn last week. You heard right, five thousand c UFC arena. 17 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 1: And what is it going to be for to celebrate 18 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: his birthday? Yes, the White House will. The White House 19 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:33,199 Speaker 1: will be hosting its first mixed martial arts fight event 20 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: on June fourteenth, coincides with Trump's eightieth birthday, and there's 21 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: going to be even more MMA events at that arena 22 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 1: to celebrate the US's two hundred and fiftieth anniversary. I 23 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 1: don't know about you. I can't think of a better 24 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: way to mark America's two hundred and fiftieth anniversary than 25 00:01:55,640 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 1: with a big, huge assed arch arena being built in 26 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 1: our in front of our house. The White House is 27 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: our house, and there's a bunch of other expensive stuff 28 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: he's planning for the fourth of July. But let's talk 29 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: about some of the other crazy stuff that he's now 30 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 1: proposing and doing. 31 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 2: So. 32 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 1: The White House has the south lawn. You all have 33 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 1: seen it. It is where Marine won the helicopter lands 34 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: and the President gets in and off that Marine helicopter. Well, okay, 35 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 1: so turns out now Donald Trump is suggesting tearing up 36 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,359 Speaker 1: the south lawn because you know, tearing up the East 37 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 1: wing wasn't enough, and tearing up Jackie Kennedy's rose garden 38 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 1: wasn't enough. So now the Wall Street Journal is reporting 39 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: that Donald Trump wants to tear out the south lawn 40 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: and build a cement helipad, which you and me are 41 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: gonna pay for. He also wants to build a permanent 42 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 1: helipad at taxpayer costs on our dime in Mara Lago. 43 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: But wait, because we're not done. We're not done yet. 44 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: There's more so apparently his appointees at the Treasury Department, 45 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:19,279 Speaker 1: they are now proposing a two hundred and fifty dollars 46 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: bill that would bear Donald Trump's face, Yes, that ugly 47 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: mug on a two hundred and fifty dollars bill and 48 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:33,360 Speaker 1: his signature. Now, let's be clear, in most cases, precedents 49 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: do not get featured on American currency until they are dead. 50 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 1: And last time I checked, his ankles are swollen, his 51 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 1: hands are bruised, but he is alive and kicking. And 52 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: of course his appointees do what appointees Trump appointees always do, 53 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 1: which is figure out how to kiss his ass. In 54 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: this case, it would be with a two hundred and 55 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: fifty dollar bill. Ironically, most Americans can't even afford to 56 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 1: have a two hundred and fifty dollars bill in their pocket. 57 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: Most Americans can't afford groceries or healthcare or gas prices. 58 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:19,479 Speaker 1: People are really hurting everywhere. The economy is in shambles. 59 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 1: People cannot make their dollar go far enough. And this 60 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 1: guy who's proposing a two hundred and fifty dollar bill. 61 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 1: I guess he can have a lot of them with 62 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: the grift and corruption and all the money he has 63 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:33,799 Speaker 1: made from the presidency, and he and all his billionaire 64 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 1: friends in Maralago can show off the two hundred and 65 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: fifty dollars money clips full of his bills. The entire 66 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 1: thing is just outrageous. But that's not the only crazy 67 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 1: shit he has done lately. Something else which is bananas 68 00:04:53,120 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 1: cool crazy that he did. He endorsed Ken Paxton in Texas. 69 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 1: He went against John Cornyn. John Cornyn and I know him, 70 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:09,359 Speaker 1: I have worked with him on issues. I disagree with 71 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:13,840 Speaker 1: him a ton, But Senator John Cordon Cornyn is a 72 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: smart guy, hard worker, really knowledgeable about the institution of 73 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:24,600 Speaker 1: the Senate. Respected by his colleagues. He was the Republican whip. 74 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: He is a prolific fundraiser. He was a judge before 75 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:34,279 Speaker 1: being in the Senate. He is a serious, serious person. 76 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:38,280 Speaker 1: Has got a lot of seniority, so brought that advantage 77 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 1: to Texas. The fact that their senator, their senior senator 78 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: from Texas, had so much power and authority within the 79 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: institution of the Senate. And what did John Cornyn do 80 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: to earn and merit Donald Trump's wrath. Well, he voted 81 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 1: with Donald Trump ninety nine two percent of the time. 82 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 1: That's even more than Ted Kruz. Just to give you 83 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,719 Speaker 1: an idea, Because make no bones about it, make no 84 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: mistake about it. John Cornyn is solidly conservative, has never 85 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:16,720 Speaker 1: pretended otherwise. Anybody who's ever talked to the guy, known 86 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:19,600 Speaker 1: the guy followed his career knows this guy is a 87 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 1: true red conservative. But what did John Cornyn do? Well, 88 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 1: he said in twenty twenty three during the Republican primaries 89 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:34,159 Speaker 1: that he thought there would be better candidates than Donald 90 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 1: Trump given everything that had happened in twenty twenty That's 91 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:40,039 Speaker 1: the extent of it. That's what Donald That's what John 92 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 1: Cornyan did. He didn't vote against Trump, he didn't vote 93 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:49,479 Speaker 1: for the Trump impeachment. He didn't criticize Trump, he didn't 94 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: attack Trump. He merely said that he thought there would 95 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: be better candidates in the Republican primary in twenty twenty three. 96 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:01,479 Speaker 1: And so instead of endorsing John Cornyn or standing the 97 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: hell out of Texas, Donald Trump came in and endorsed 98 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: Ken Paxton. Ken Paxton is the pits. There are people 99 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: that have baggage. Ken Paxton doesn't have baggage. Ken Paxton 100 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: has steamer trunks of shit that he has done. He 101 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: has faced allegations of bribery, abuse of office, securities, fraud, 102 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: marital infidelity. In twenty twenty three, he was impeached by 103 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: his own party by Republicans in Texas. So that is 104 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 1: who Donald Trump endorsed, and that means that now Texas 105 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: is in play for Democrats. It now means that Republicans 106 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 1: are going to have to spend tens and tens of 107 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 1: millions of dollars defending Texas, which would have been a 108 00:07:55,600 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: sure win for John Cornyn. But you see, Donald Trump 109 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: is such a vindictive, revengeful, petty caddy little man that 110 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: even the slightest of slights, the slightest of criticisms, is 111 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 1: enough for him to cut off his nose to spite 112 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: his face. What he does, what he just did is 113 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 1: making tall Ico a possible winner in Texas, something that's 114 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 1: unheard of, that we would not have been talking about 115 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: had John Cornyn been the nominee and talking about Texas. 116 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 1: You know, Texas is one of the states where Donald 117 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: Trump made huge in roads in twenty twenty four, huge 118 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: inroads with Latinos. It was one of the most talked 119 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: about stories coming out of the twenty twenty four elections, 120 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 1: how Donald Trump had made in roads in places like 121 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 1: the Rio Grande Valley in Texas and with Latino men 122 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: in particular, and with Latinos in general. But a new 123 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 1: pole just came out this week. I want to tell 124 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: you about one in four Hispanic Trump voters. So these 125 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 1: are the Latinos who voted for Trump now say they 126 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: would not vote for him again. So he has lost 127 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: twenty five percent of the Latino voters who voted for him. 128 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 1: I'm trying not to say to these Latinos, I told 129 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: you so, I fucking told you he was coming for 130 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 1: your ts and your away less and your girlfriends and 131 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 1: your wives and your children, and your colleagues and your friends. 132 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 1: So a little more top line out of this pole, 133 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:47,439 Speaker 1: two thirds of Latino voters disapprove of Trump's job performance. 134 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:54,199 Speaker 1: Disapproval is a majority in every region tested, including fifty 135 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:58,839 Speaker 1: one percent in Florida. Florida is usually different because that's 136 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:03,599 Speaker 1: where the police exiles live. The Nicaraguan Americans, the Cuban Americans, 137 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:06,839 Speaker 1: the Venezuelan Americans who tend to agree more, who tend 138 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: to be Republican stars Republican and agree more on foreign policy. 139 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: In California, Latino disapproval of Trump stands at seventy one percent. 140 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 1: In Arizona sixty seven percent disapproval rating. So this is 141 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 1: important because as they have done all of this redistricting 142 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 1: in places like Texas, they are counting on the gains 143 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: they made with the Latino community. They were counting on 144 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 1: building on those gains from twenty twenty four. And it 145 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 1: looks like looks like Latinos have woken up and smelled 146 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 1: a cafe coo leche and realized that it was a mistake. 147 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 1: Interestingly enough, the top issue for Latinos is, like for 148 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 1: most every other American, the cost of living. The second 149 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: issue for Latinos is immigration, the cruelty the immigration enforcement 150 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 1: in humanity that we have witnessed that they want us 151 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: to forget about. And that is why the next conversation 152 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:12,199 Speaker 1: is such an important one. The conversation with Sarah Stillman 153 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 1: coming up, so stay tuned for that. Welcome back to 154 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: Bleep with Anon Navarro. Today we have a very special guest, 155 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 1: somebody that I really wanted on. It's been weeks since 156 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:34,680 Speaker 1: I read her article on the family detention crisis going 157 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: on in this country at the Dilly Detention Center and 158 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: other places. So welcome to Sarah Stillman. Sarah is a 159 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 1: Pulitzer Prize winning journalist and staff writer at The New Yorker, 160 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: and she focuses on immigration policy, on the criminal justice system, 161 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:55,200 Speaker 1: and on the impacts of climate change on workers. This Sarah, 162 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 1: thank you for being here and for making the time 163 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 1: so that we can talk about this article that you wrote. 164 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 1: I'd like to tell you it's a wonderful article, but 165 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: it's a it's a powerful article, it's a heartbreaking article, 166 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 1: and it's a very humane article. So how did how 167 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: did it? How did how did you end up writing 168 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: about what's happening? 169 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you so much for having me on the 170 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 2: show and for everything that you do and all the 171 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 2: conversations you spark. How did I come to write this piece? 172 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:30,719 Speaker 2: I mean, in some ways this piece was many, many 173 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 2: years in the making. My central source for it as 174 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 2: a remarkable immigration attorney or a mukerje at Columbia Law School. 175 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 2: And oddly enough, you know, I got to know her 176 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 2: years ago when she was working on the issue of 177 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 2: family detention under the Obama administration. So it's a topic 178 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:48,319 Speaker 2: that she and I go way back on, and I 179 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 2: kind of had to reckon with that crisis in that 180 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 2: much earlier moment when family detention was expanded during the 181 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 2: Obama era, and then more recently, I actually happened to 182 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 2: be on a phone call with Laura to prep for 183 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 2: a panel we were doing to talk about other immigration issues, 184 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 2: and she said, Oh my gosh, I've got to get 185 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 2: off the phone soon. I'm working to represent a one 186 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 2: year old who was just arrested, or an eighteen month 187 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 2: old child who was just arrested and who was in 188 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 2: serious medical crisis at Dilly. And of course, as you 189 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 2: can imagine, like that had ahead of visral reaction to that, 190 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 2: even just hearing that scent is that a one year 191 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 2: old has been arrested and is detained, to say nothing 192 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 2: of the fact that she was going through a really 193 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 2: serious medical crisis, placed in a hospital, and then sent 194 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 2: back to Dilly. So I knew I certainly wanted to 195 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 2: hear more about that particular child. Is the case of 196 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 2: Amalia exactly. So that was the case of Amalia exactly. 197 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 2: So that was a case of a child named Amalia 198 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 2: who Laura represented her in her family, and then I 199 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:46,679 Speaker 2: went from there started looking into that case, and of 200 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 2: course it's this much much broader phenomenon affecting so many 201 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 2: other families. 202 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 1: Can you give people who may not have ever heard 203 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 1: of Dilly the one oh one on Dilly? How did 204 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: this place start? Where is it? What is it? For sure? 205 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:03,440 Speaker 2: Absolutely so. Family detention as a private, for profit enterprise 206 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 2: in the US got its start under the Bush administration, 207 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 2: but then Dilley, specifically, as I mentioned, started under the 208 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 2: Obama administration. Is a place to hold and detain people 209 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 2: who came here as a family unit. So in the 210 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 2: past it was typically used for people who had recently 211 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 2: arrived as asylum seekers. There are federally governed limits typically 212 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 2: or they're supposed to be on how long a child 213 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 2: can be detained, So in the past, children would often 214 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 2: be processed more quickly through the space and their parents 215 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 2: as well, and then they would get out, whereas more 216 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 2: recently under the Trump administration, and especially in the second 217 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 2: term of the Trump administration, we've seen enormous numbers of 218 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 2: families who are being held at Dilly, some of whom 219 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 2: aren't even recent asylum seekers. I talked to many families 220 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 2: at Dilly who some of whom had come here, who 221 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 2: had lived here in the US for years, had deep 222 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 2: roots in their communities. I'm thinking of like one Indian 223 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 2: family I spoke to who lived in La They were 224 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 2: arrested and then brought all the way to Dilly and 225 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 2: detained there as an effort to be part of the 226 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 2: larger mass deportation strategy of the administration. 227 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: How did you get access to Dilly? Is it usual 228 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 1: for press to be allowed in. 229 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 2: I wasn't allowed into the physical facility, but I was 230 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 2: able to speak with families amazingly, because Laura Mugerchee is 231 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 2: representing many of these families, I was able to speak 232 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 2: to them, to the parents and their kids who were 233 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 2: open to speaking with me through that, through that process, 234 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 2: through video calls. 235 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 1: So you just mentioned that there's actually a federal law, 236 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: statute of regulation that limits the amount of days that 237 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: children can be detained. Yeah. 238 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 2: So there's something known as the Flora's Agreement. It was 239 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 2: a settlement in a lawsuit. I believe it goes all 240 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 2: the way back to nineteen ninety seven. So this has 241 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 2: been long true in the law that we're supposed to 242 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 2: look at or the government is supposed to look at 243 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 2: what is the best interest of the child and detain 244 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 2: children for the minimal amount of time possible, And typically 245 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 2: that would be limited to twin days, but I spoke 246 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 2: to many kids who are in the facility for far 247 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 2: longer than that, sometimes triple that length. 248 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: You say, you have a case in the in there 249 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: were they'd been detained for over one hundred and twenty days, 250 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: six times correct that amount, and people who had been 251 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 1: there for one hundred days. So what what what are 252 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 1: the conditions in Dilly? 253 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for asking about that. I think it's a 254 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 2: really important part of the story that almost every family, 255 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 2: actually every family to whom I spoke mentioned the water, 256 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 2: the water smelling foul. Some people describe the waters having 257 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 2: like slimy stuff in it. Almost everyone described the water 258 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 2: as making them feel ill. And I don't think it's 259 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 2: circumstantial that there is for profit institution corcific running the 260 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 2: facility and the families are allowed to buy expensive bottled water. 261 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 2: So some of the families I spoke to said, you know, 262 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 2: because they don't have any income stream, they just pooled 263 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 2: whatever little resources they had to be able to pay 264 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 2: for their kid to have the bottled water, and then 265 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 2: the adults were drinking the water that made them ill. 266 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 2: So that's definitely one set of what the families were describing. 267 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 2: Another really pervasive thing was just core medical neglect. As 268 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 2: you can imagine when you've got a lot of people 269 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 2: detained in a circumstance like that, you've got a lot 270 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 2: of contagion, and you've got a lot of illnesses, including 271 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 2: you know, many people who just went on a really 272 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:19,120 Speaker 2: difficult journey to exercise their legal right to asylum who've 273 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 2: been detained. And so there's almost every family I spoke 274 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 2: to also describe medical and neglect. 275 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:28,400 Speaker 1: You just talked about it being a for profit business. 276 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 1: This is a business, correct. A lot of the people 277 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: running the companies, the corporations running these detention centers were 278 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:39,199 Speaker 1: pretty big donors, are pretty big political donors to Trump 279 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 1: and other Republicans. So how big a business are we 280 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 1: talking about. I mean I read in your article something 281 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:52,680 Speaker 1: of a like a two billion dollar industry for profit. 282 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's right. And cour civic It's important to 283 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:58,120 Speaker 2: note that they not only detain people in immigration context, 284 00:17:58,119 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 2: but they also are a big part of just the 285 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 2: overall mass incarceration reality of our country. So they also 286 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 2: run for profit prisons. But yet it's around a two 287 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 2: billion dollars in total revenue last year. 288 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: And that's just one of the corporations. There's the geogroup. 289 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: There's other corporations that are lining their pockets and making 290 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 1: a lot of money from keeping people detained, keeping immigrants detained. 291 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 1: And so, as I understand it, the way this works 292 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 1: is that these for profit companies get an x amount 293 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 1: a lotted to them per immigrant per day. And so 294 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: let's just use for purposes of this conversation, let's just 295 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 1: say that that number is one hundred dollars per immigrant 296 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 1: per day. But if they only spend fifty dollars or 297 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 1: thirty dollars on that immigrant, then they get to pocket 298 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: the rest as profit. Am I right in this? 299 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean, one thing that's disturbing is there's astounding 300 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:58,159 Speaker 2: the little transparency about how the economics work at Dillys. 301 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 2: So I think I've certainly reported on that context of 302 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:03,199 Speaker 2: in for profit facilities across the US that are not 303 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 2: just in the immigration attention context, but the provision of 304 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 2: privatized for profit healthcare in prisons and jails, across the 305 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 2: country often mean that you know, in some circumstances, the 306 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:16,680 Speaker 2: money that the taxpayer is providing, every dollar that's spent, 307 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 2: often on healthcare in some of those contexts, winds up 308 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 2: against the company's bottom line. So you can imagine the 309 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:25,879 Speaker 2: perverse incentives that creates. But it's difficult even to know. 310 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 2: Things you would think would be really simple at Dilly 311 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 2: are not easy to discern, Like even something as simple 312 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:33,400 Speaker 2: as how many people are there on any given day 313 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 2: is not always transparent, So it's hard to get to 314 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 2: the bottom of that. And of course, the company denies 315 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 2: the water issue, the company denies the medical neglect, and 316 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,880 Speaker 2: so it's hard to really have cammability. 317 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 1: Cases of kids that are getting sick ending up in 318 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 1: the hospital. There's been children who have died in detention. 319 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 1: You talk about that in your article. Can you talk 320 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 1: to us about the case of Amalia, of Little Amalia. 321 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, So Amali was one of the central Her and 322 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 2: her family were one of the central families I focused on. 323 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 2: And they're a family who came here exactly the way 324 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,360 Speaker 2: that government has said they want people to come, which 325 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 2: is they came as legal asylum seekers. The parents are 326 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 2: from Venezuela, and they were seeking legal protection here for 327 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 2: very legitimate reasons that they have the right before international 328 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 2: law to do, and so they came. They went, they 329 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 2: arrived under the Biden administration. Amali was actually born in Mexico. 330 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 2: As they were waiting, they went through the process known 331 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 2: as a CBP one app and they actually ultimately got 332 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 2: humanitarian parole by the Biden from the Biden administration. And 333 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:37,679 Speaker 2: so they were living in al Paso. They'd found a 334 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 2: church community, they'd found friendship, They've really kind of started 335 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:45,360 Speaker 2: to settle their lives as they waited their immigration court date. 336 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 2: But ultimately they went to a routine ice check in 337 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 2: and the entire family to the couple and their child, Amalia, 338 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 2: were arrested. They were placed in a van with other 339 00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 2: families with kids. So this is not they're certainly not 340 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 2: alone in this. A lot of people's parole has been 341 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 2: revoked and then folks have been sent to family detention. 342 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 2: But what was specific about Amelia's case was that when 343 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,680 Speaker 2: they arrived at detention, she was a healthy child who 344 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 2: was thriving. And what happened in detention around the time 345 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 2: of the New year, she started getting a fever she 346 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 2: got sick at Dilly. You often have to wait, the 347 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 2: family said, in really long lines, to just get access 348 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 2: to here, to tell your story and to try to 349 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 2: get some treatment. And Amalia's mom felt rebuffed many times 350 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 2: when she waited for sometimes hours in the line. And 351 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 2: ultimately Amalia's condition was getting worse and worse and worse, 352 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 2: to the point where her blood oxygen saturation was like 353 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 2: a critical emergency. And finally she was sent to the 354 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 2: emergency room and they found that she had COVID, RSV, 355 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 2: pneumonia and near infection and was truly on the brink 356 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:51,160 Speaker 2: of death, and so she had to receive emergency care 357 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:51,879 Speaker 2: in the hospital. 358 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:56,159 Speaker 1: Think about how you know, let that sink in. She 359 00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: had an incredibly contagious I mean, she had COVID, she 360 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 1: had I mean things that if she was having contact 361 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 1: with other adults and mostly another children, then they were 362 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,239 Speaker 1: I mean, this is like a cycle of illness in 363 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,399 Speaker 1: this place where they are in cramped quarters and with 364 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 1: bad medical facilities and treatment. And how many kids do 365 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:26,680 Speaker 1: we know have died or do we know how many 366 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 1: children have died in ice custody since the Trump administration 367 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 1: came back to power. 368 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 2: You know, I'm not sure we really have full visibility 369 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 2: on that. I know in the previous Trump administration there 370 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,679 Speaker 2: was a big uptick in deaths of children and detention. 371 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 2: There had been I think almost a decade of without 372 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:46,680 Speaker 2: a child dying in immigration custody, and then in the 373 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 2: last Trump term there was a sudden slew of deaths 374 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 2: of kids and immigration custody. But I don't think we 375 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 2: haven't seen anything on that scale at present. But we've 376 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:02,120 Speaker 2: seen many, many stories of kids facing pretty serious medical 377 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,879 Speaker 2: neglect that can have long term consequences, and the adults 378 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 2: as well. I mean I spoke to many adults and 379 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:08,479 Speaker 2: family detention who were facing similar things. 380 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 1: So so Dilly is the is a detention center where 381 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 1: little Leam Ramos Conejo, the little boy with the blue 382 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:25,399 Speaker 1: knit cap from from Minneapolis who was used as human 383 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:30,159 Speaker 1: bait basically to lure his parents out, was sent with 384 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 1: his father. And I remember the images of what had 385 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 1: been an active, happy, normal, rambunctious little boy, and when 386 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 1: he was at Dilly, I remember the images of this lethargic, 387 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:52,159 Speaker 1: sickly child being held in his in his father's hands 388 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:56,159 Speaker 1: as he was asleep most of the time. It was 389 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 1: jarring and shocking, but it's not uncommon. It is what 390 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,120 Speaker 1: you're Yeah, I saw it with my own eyes. 391 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 2: I mean I was interviewing kids who were Sometimes I 392 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:07,439 Speaker 2: was talking to their parents while the kids were just 393 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 2: like lying on the ground, and you could see the 394 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 2: depression and their parents were describing for some of these kids, 395 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 2: especially some of the kids who were older, because we're 396 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:17,919 Speaker 2: talking so far about you know, Malia who was eighteen 397 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 2: months old at the time, so vulnerable, but the kids 398 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 2: who are older also have very different challenges, Like a 399 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,880 Speaker 2: lot of them, their families say they're grappling with depression 400 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 2: and anxiety and sleeplessness alongside the other medical issues that 401 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:32,480 Speaker 2: are often present. 402 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: You talked about the case of Oolksanna of a Russian family. 403 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: Can you tell us about that case? 404 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,360 Speaker 2: Sure, that was another case of medical neglect layered upon 405 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 2: a bunch of other issues. That family had three kids, 406 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 2: two of whom are a bit older. I think one 407 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:55,200 Speaker 2: was around the age of twelve and one of the girls, 408 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:58,879 Speaker 2: the girl in the family, had serious ear pain and 409 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 2: so again they would have to wait for hours in 410 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,359 Speaker 2: line just to get any kind of treatment. They said 411 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 2: they often felt rebuffed and then at one point they 412 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:11,680 Speaker 2: leedged that their child's you're drum ruptured or some very 413 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 2: serious thing happened in her ear that has continued to 414 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 2: cause her pain. But I also witnessed with Lantern and 415 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 2: I twa is the way that the older kids were 416 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,920 Speaker 2: affected by just anxiety producing reality of being and long 417 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 2: term attention that went way past the twenty day marks. Sarah. 418 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:29,199 Speaker 1: One of the things that you talk about that you 419 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 1: write about in your in your article is how the 420 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 1: Trump administration has changed and differed from what some previous 421 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 1: administrations have done. And they are basically weaponizing the parents 422 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: love for their children and making them live in these 423 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:54,400 Speaker 1: conditions so that they will ultimately give up and leave 424 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,919 Speaker 1: the country with their child self deport It's but some 425 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 1: of the changes you talk about is that there were 426 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: certain areas that were off limits for ice raids and 427 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 1: ice detentions and places like school zones, playgrounds, churches. There 428 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,920 Speaker 1: is no off limits these days. Whether it's a hospital 429 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:23,120 Speaker 1: or a playground, it doesn't matter. You talked about children 430 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 1: who had been where there had been an immigration raid, 431 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:30,119 Speaker 1: and these children had been in Idaho, I think is 432 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 1: what you said during a horse race, and these children, 433 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,679 Speaker 1: why don't you tell US about what that was like 434 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: in Idaho. 435 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, there was one of many many examples we could cite, 436 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,440 Speaker 2: the Idaho example, Welder, Idaho. That was the place. We've 437 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 2: heard a lot about Minneapolis, La, Chicago, some of the 438 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,480 Speaker 2: raids in the big blue cities, and I think we've 439 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:51,639 Speaker 2: heard perhaps a little bit less about what the raids 440 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 2: looked like in places where federal immigration is often aligned 441 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,639 Speaker 2: with stayed in local law enforcement and immigration crackdowns. And 442 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 2: I think Wilder is a very good example of that. 443 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:06,399 Speaker 2: That was a situation there's currently litigation underway with the 444 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 2: ACLU and I think some others, because there was a 445 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 2: number of people, including US citizens, including children, who were 446 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,879 Speaker 2: subjected to that raid despite not really being its true targets, 447 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 2: and kids were clinging to their US citizen mothers who 448 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,160 Speaker 2: were just made to sit in handcuffs or zip ties 449 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,200 Speaker 2: for a while. There were children who were zip tied 450 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,679 Speaker 2: in ways that made their risks bleed dail edge, And 451 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:36,919 Speaker 2: you know, I think that's again one of many examples 452 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 2: we could cite. But I think the core thing you 453 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 2: mentioned is also particularly important around the changing objectivesm immigration 454 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:48,160 Speaker 2: enforcement to no longer have what were previously determined protected areas. 455 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 2: So I think we've seen a congressional inquiry into that 456 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:56,159 Speaker 2: specific issue showed something like forty two incidents at schools, 457 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 2: bus stops, daycare centers. I think many of us have 458 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 2: seen the those kinds of videos that have become a 459 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 2: normal part of young people's experience of being online now 460 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,400 Speaker 2: is just being kind of seeing potentially a deluge of 461 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,400 Speaker 2: videos of children who have been placed in perilm that way. 462 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:13,159 Speaker 1: You know, for me, it was really important to have 463 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:17,680 Speaker 1: you on because I feel that in the aftermath of Minneapolis, 464 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,959 Speaker 1: in the aftermath of the backlash, after the deaths, the 465 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:26,640 Speaker 1: assassinations of Alex Pretty and Renee Good, there's obviously been 466 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 1: an effort by Trump and his administration to get immigration 467 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,439 Speaker 1: out of the headlines, to get some of these more, 468 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 1: you know, the the most inhumane cruel cases, the things 469 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: that get the entire country up in arms and just 470 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 1: angry and shocked and sad out of the headlines. And 471 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 1: they've largely succeeded. But that doesn't mean that the cruelty 472 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 1: is not still going on, even if it's not in 473 00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 1: the headlines. That doesn't mean there's not hundreds of children 474 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: in Dilly without access to healthy food or education, many 475 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 1: of them sick and lethargic from foul water. I mean, 476 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 1: it's just what do you think is happening with that? 477 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,240 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, you know, my theory is people 478 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: are pissed. The poll numbers are showing that there is disapproval, 479 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 1: huge disapproval of Trump when it comes to the handling 480 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:28,960 Speaker 1: of immigration, even the border. And there's an election coming 481 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: up in just a few months in November, and they 482 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 1: are trying to whitewash the cruelty before that election. But 483 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 1: god only know, I mean, if this is still happening, 484 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 1: we're just not reading about it. Just imagine what can 485 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:49,480 Speaker 1: happen after those elections when any sort of check or 486 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 1: balance is no longer, you know, when the check and 487 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 1: balance of an election coming election is not weighing on 488 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 1: their shoulders or conscience or lack thereof. 489 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think it's so important that we look 490 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 2: at the different types of immigration enforcement happening, because certainly 491 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 2: one kind is that the really high profile raids and 492 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 2: attacks on peaceful protesters, etc. That we saw in places 493 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 2: like Minneapolis and LA. But then it's also important to 494 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 2: realize that there's many, many secretive layers to this administration's 495 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 2: mass deportation strategy. I can give you one really concrete 496 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 2: example that I think is important and often doesn't get 497 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 2: the headlines I think it really deserves, which is many 498 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 2: of you may have heard about the secret of third 499 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 2: country deportations that the administration is pursuing. I've done a 500 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:39,360 Speaker 2: number of interviews with those folks as well. I think 501 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 2: oftentimes it's a lot easier to access people's empathy when 502 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 2: you talk about the stories of children and the medical 503 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 2: neglect they're facing. But there's also a really real issue 504 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 2: of people who have been basically deported to countries where 505 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 2: they had absolutely no previous relationships. So you know, I 506 00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 2: spoke to a Jamaic and man who was deported to 507 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 2: the country of Swatini because he was someone that initial 508 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 2: group of folks who were sent to a Spatini were 509 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 2: people who had prior criminal convictions. I think many people 510 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 2: weren't willing to think about the rights of that particular 511 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,480 Speaker 2: set of folks who then got sent and indefinitely detained 512 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 2: in a foreign prison that was taxpayer funded. Lights that 513 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 2: we've sent these people on and increasingly that set of 514 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:23,720 Speaker 2: folks is expanding. So it started with folks who had 515 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 2: criminal convictions, and then it became people who were valid 516 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 2: asylum secrets. 517 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 1: But also their definition of criminal conviction is incredibly broad, 518 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 1: because you know, I live in Miami. My home is Miami, Florida. 519 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 1: And it's a case where even Cubans, even Cuban immigrants, 520 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 1: Cubans who are legal permanent residents, Cubans who entered the 521 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:48,320 Speaker 1: country who until now have been basically untouched. Right they 522 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 1: are the sacred cows for Republicans. They have all sorts 523 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 1: of immigration benefits that some other the most other nationalities don't. 524 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 1: But even Cubans are being sent to play like the 525 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 1: Congo and Aswatini and Sudan where there is a violent 526 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 1: civil war going on. And when you talk about criminal convictions, 527 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:13,720 Speaker 1: I have heard of people being detained and deported for 528 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: things like having been caught twenty twenty five years ago 529 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 1: during a traffic infraction with three sanaks in their bag 530 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 1: that they didn't have a prescription for. So we're not 531 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 1: just when we talk about criminal conviction, we're not talking 532 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 1: necessarily about murderers or thieves, or rapists or child molesters. 533 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 1: And a lot of times we are talking about people 534 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,719 Speaker 1: who may have passed a bad check, or shoplifted at 535 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 1: some point, or gotten caught with prescription medication without the prescription. 536 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 1: I mean, for sure. 537 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 2: I mean I think what's really interesting though about this 538 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 2: specific example is that they very strategically started with a 539 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:00,840 Speaker 2: very small number of people it's very serious criminal convictions, 540 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 2: because I think part of their strategy was like, let's 541 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 2: see if we can get away with that with folks 542 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 2: who many people aren't willing to defend, even if they 543 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 2: have fundamental core legal human rights. And then they started 544 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 2: to build that to include ever more increasing and ever 545 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:19,600 Speaker 2: widening populations, which includes many people who were valid asylum 546 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,920 Speaker 2: seekers who came here who actually had relief granted by 547 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 2: an immigration judge. Like I spoke to women who had 548 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 2: fled female general mutilation where they were almost killed in 549 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 2: their community. They came here, arrived at the border in Arizona, 550 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 2: they were ultimately told by US immigration judge, we agree 551 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 2: that you face serious threat for your life in the 552 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,239 Speaker 2: country of Togo, for instance. And then even after they 553 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 2: received that protection, instead of being allowed to stay here, 554 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:46,360 Speaker 2: which would have been the case in the past for 555 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:48,640 Speaker 2: someone granted the status of it's known as withholding of 556 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,959 Speaker 2: removal those folks were then deported to Ghana so that 557 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:54,400 Speaker 2: Ghana could in turn deport them back to their home 558 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 2: country from which they have protection. I think that's an 559 00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 2: increasingly widening group of folks as you're describing. 560 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: I don't know how much you're following this, but i've 561 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 1: you know, there's an election for governor going on in California. 562 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 1: One of the people running is Javier Basra, who was 563 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 1: the former Secretary of Health and Human Services under Joe Biden, 564 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 1: and there's a lot of talk about what happened under 565 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 1: his watch and the Biden administration's watch when it came 566 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:26,960 Speaker 1: to family detention, the detention of children, and then what 567 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:31,359 Speaker 1: happened afterwards. So what is different between what happened then 568 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,400 Speaker 1: and what is happening now? Absolutely good question. 569 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 2: I mean, under the Biden administration, one thing they did 570 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:43,800 Speaker 2: is essentially ceased to engage in family detention, so Dilley 571 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,719 Speaker 2: was not operating as a family detention center for much 572 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:50,719 Speaker 2: of that prior administration. And I think I think many 573 00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,360 Speaker 2: people ask questions about why didn't the previous administration have 574 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,920 Speaker 2: a more affirmative vision on immigration and really have a 575 00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:01,480 Speaker 2: more douftful way of actually talking about the realities of 576 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,319 Speaker 2: why immigration is not just like a thing to be 577 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 2: described as a contagion or a threat. But I think 578 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:09,840 Speaker 2: a lot of what we're seeing now is the folks 579 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:13,920 Speaker 2: who received humanitarian parole through that legal process, like the 580 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,960 Speaker 2: folks I described, for instance, of Amalia's family, her parents, 581 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 2: those are people who are now losing that status. So 582 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:21,880 Speaker 2: I think it's important to note that a lot of 583 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 2: the people there's not only attacks on folks who might 584 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:28,400 Speaker 2: be undocumented and living here in that with that status, 585 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 2: but there's also consistent attacks on people who came here 586 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,720 Speaker 2: as refugees, trying to strip that status through Operation Paris 587 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:37,719 Speaker 2: and other such efforts, and then attacks on other pathways 588 00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 2: of legal migration, including not just the asylum system, but 589 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,400 Speaker 2: other legal forms like the refugee system. 590 00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:47,279 Speaker 1: I want to thank you for shedding light on this, 591 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:53,719 Speaker 1: for writing about this, for spending so much time researching this. 592 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 1: But I want to ask you, you know, because as 593 00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 1: I was reading this, and I read it twice, because 594 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,880 Speaker 1: it's just there's so much information on in your article, 595 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 1: which I hope people go read. It's called the Return 596 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:10,360 Speaker 1: of Family Detention in the New Yorker magazine. But Sarah 597 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:16,200 Speaker 1: how do you report on this horrible stuff and still 598 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:20,319 Speaker 1: function and still find joy and still sleep at night. 599 00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't. I don't know that I could 600 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 1: do it without being a puddle in the ground. 601 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think this project. I mean, I'm not gonna lie. 602 00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:32,359 Speaker 2: There were times when it truly, actually literally made me cry. 603 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,160 Speaker 2: I mean I got off the phone with one of 604 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:37,560 Speaker 2: the families where I mentioned this Indian family who had 605 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:43,320 Speaker 2: lived here for quite some time in La and Guri 606 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 2: was one of the children who t was missing his 607 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,840 Speaker 2: soccer team and described like what parts of his life 608 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:54,080 Speaker 2: were now gone while he was sitting in detention, and 609 00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:56,640 Speaker 2: he said he felt like a bird in a cage. 610 00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:02,240 Speaker 2: And I definitely picture him and his sister and the family, 611 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,239 Speaker 2: the parents just listening to their child narrate that and 612 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:07,600 Speaker 2: feel powerless. The parents started to cry. 613 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:07,880 Speaker 1: And I. 614 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,360 Speaker 2: Don't think there's a world where that's not going to 615 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 2: affect you as a listener, whether you're someone listening right 616 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,240 Speaker 2: now or whether you're the person reporting on the story. 617 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:21,560 Speaker 2: I think that's part of what it means to do 618 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,000 Speaker 2: this work is I've always heard like journalists get hardened 619 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,719 Speaker 2: across years, and that's sadly I feel like working on 620 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:28,960 Speaker 2: this issue, I do only do I not feel hardened, 621 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,839 Speaker 2: but it just feels like increasingly the pile up. 622 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:33,040 Speaker 1: It's a lot for. 623 00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:36,839 Speaker 2: Anyone who bears witness to that to bear, and so 624 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:42,000 Speaker 2: I just hope that people continue to engage, to listen 625 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:43,960 Speaker 2: and to be receptive to these stories instead of what 626 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:45,719 Speaker 2: can be so easy to do, which is to tune out. 627 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,200 Speaker 2: So thank you for having a conversation like this. 628 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:52,040 Speaker 1: And you know, if you read the story and you 629 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:55,480 Speaker 1: ares as saddened and shocked and enraged as I am, 630 00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:58,839 Speaker 1: what's the solution here? Is there one? 631 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:03,399 Speaker 2: I mean, we've got some big policy solutions, but then 632 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,959 Speaker 2: I think we also have I mean, I think each 633 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:10,360 Speaker 2: basic obligations around like being engaged in our communities. And 634 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:11,680 Speaker 2: this is a moment when I think there's been a 635 00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,680 Speaker 2: lot of incredible reporting on what community responses have looked 636 00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,359 Speaker 2: like the very neighborhood based responses we saw in Minneapolis 637 00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,160 Speaker 2: that were cultivated by communities that had already built that 638 00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:23,799 Speaker 2: in racial justice movements after George Floyd's killing, and I 639 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,800 Speaker 2: think there's a lot we can learn from that example. 640 00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,160 Speaker 2: But there's a lot of people, I think coming forward 641 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,440 Speaker 2: with models of what it looks like to like actually 642 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:33,960 Speaker 2: truly be cifically engaged in communities. So I think other 643 00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:36,399 Speaker 2: those folks are better to lead that answer than I am. 644 00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,200 Speaker 2: But I feel lucky to get to document it and 645 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:40,080 Speaker 2: tell those stories too. 646 00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,160 Speaker 1: You know, when I read your article, it made me 647 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:45,440 Speaker 1: think of some of the darker times in American history, 648 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:50,200 Speaker 1: times like the Japanese Internment, which also happened in places 649 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:54,880 Speaker 1: like Idaho and other states. And the fact that we 650 00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,200 Speaker 1: can study that and we can learn from it, hopefully 651 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:03,720 Speaker 1: because there were brave people writing about it and talking 652 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,680 Speaker 1: with the folks who suffered it in their own skin 653 00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:11,080 Speaker 1: and putting those stories down on paper. So what you 654 00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:16,080 Speaker 1: are doing is crucial. I believe that decades from now, 655 00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:20,680 Speaker 1: generations from now, people are going to look back at 656 00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:26,319 Speaker 1: this time in American history with shame. It's going to 657 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,000 Speaker 1: be considered one of the darker times in American history 658 00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,960 Speaker 1: that in twenty twenty six, in the United States of America, 659 00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:37,120 Speaker 1: the beacon of freedom around the world, there could be 660 00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:42,920 Speaker 1: children living in such deplorable conditions, in such inhumane conditions, 661 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:47,880 Speaker 1: is something that I think will shock the conscience for 662 00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:51,960 Speaker 1: years and years to come. And thank you, thank you 663 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:56,440 Speaker 1: for writing about it and for doing so much to 664 00:39:56,560 --> 00:40:00,399 Speaker 1: shed light and inform us us who I don't get 665 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,000 Speaker 1: to speak to these families. So thank you very much 666 00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:06,600 Speaker 1: for having joined me today. And I can't tell you 667 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,279 Speaker 1: how grateful I am to you for your work and 668 00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:10,440 Speaker 1: your brothers. Thank you. 669 00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:13,680 Speaker 2: I feel the same. I'm so grateful to comfort this. 670 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,000 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Thank you Sam Damn. I really 671 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:16,480 Speaker 1: appreciate it. 672 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:17,200 Speaker 2: Thank you having. 673 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,920 Speaker 1: Thank you Sarah Stillman for talking to us at this 674 00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,440 Speaker 1: point in the podcast. I usually like to highlight a 675 00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:35,360 Speaker 1: coward of the week. This week, I'm going to highlight 676 00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:37,920 Speaker 1: a nutcase of the week. I don't know if you 677 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,520 Speaker 1: saw it. If you didn't, please go google it. But 678 00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:46,200 Speaker 1: RFK Junior, our esteemed Health and Human Services secretary, was 679 00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:50,239 Speaker 1: caught on video wrangling two black razor snakes with his 680 00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:55,120 Speaker 1: bare hands, apparently on doctor OS's patio. I just want 681 00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:57,480 Speaker 1: to know what in the hell is up with this 682 00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:01,440 Speaker 1: guy and animals. I mean, it's the bear carcass in 683 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:06,800 Speaker 1: Central Park, It's the eating a dead dog, putting mice 684 00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:11,480 Speaker 1: through a blender, cutting the penis from a road killed raccoon, 685 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:15,960 Speaker 1: the worm that was eating his brain. All this is 686 00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:19,160 Speaker 1: not brave. It is weird, it is creepy, it is 687 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:22,360 Speaker 1: kind of disgusting, and it is disturbing that it is happening. 688 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:26,239 Speaker 1: From the Secretary of Human Health and Human Services. So 689 00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:31,000 Speaker 1: Cheryl Honey, if you need help, blink twice. We can 690 00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:36,000 Speaker 1: stand help. And that's all for Bleep this week. Thank 691 00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:38,319 Speaker 1: you for listening, if you love the show, If you 692 00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:41,719 Speaker 1: like the show, help spread the word and like us, 693 00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:44,319 Speaker 1: give us a rating, and leave us a message too. 694 00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:46,560 Speaker 1: I've been reading all of them and I really appreciate 695 00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:50,480 Speaker 1: your comments and your replies, and don't forget. Bleep is 696 00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:55,560 Speaker 1: now available with video free on the iHeartRadio app. Thanks 697 00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:59,000 Speaker 1: and we'll see you again next week. Bleep with Anna 698 00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:02,520 Speaker 1: Navarro is a High Finite Media group production in partnership 699 00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:07,040 Speaker 1: with Iheart'smikududa podcast network. For more of your favorite shows, 700 00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:10,920 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get 701 00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:11,880 Speaker 1: your podcasts.