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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff

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Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind.

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Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and my name is Julie

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Speaker 1: Rowdy Roddy Douglas. Okay, yeah, that's your that's your gimmick

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Speaker 1: this week. That's my handle. Yeah, a little homage to

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Speaker 1: be famous Rowdy Roddy Piper the wrestler. Yeah, yeah, he was,

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Speaker 1: is was and is great. He was in of course

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Speaker 1: John Carpenters, they live and Hell comes to Frogtown and

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Speaker 1: other great Hollywood gyms. But of course, first and foremost

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Speaker 1: a pro wrestler. And uh and yeah, we're gonna chat

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Speaker 1: a little bit about pro wrestling in this podcast. But

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Speaker 1: do not let that scare you away, um, because I

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Speaker 1: know most of you, probably for most of you, wrestling

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Speaker 1: is not your thing. And if some of our listeners

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Speaker 1: are wrestling fans, a couple of our listeners are actually wrestlers,

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Speaker 1: if I remember correctly. But but but trust me, trust

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Speaker 1: me on this journey we're about to take you on.

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Speaker 1: That's right, because by the end of this podcast, you're

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Speaker 1: going to say it all makes sense. Now. I know

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Speaker 1: Robert and Julie wanted to talk about wrestling because I

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Speaker 1: now see how it has everything to do with my

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Speaker 1: life and my reality. Yeah, I mean, it's a big

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Speaker 1: ticket item to try to fill, but we're gonna try

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Speaker 1: to take you through that with wrestling and something called Kabees.

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Speaker 1: So first of all, I mean, you mentioned Roddy Piper,

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Speaker 1: so your memory is of pro wrestling. You're not a

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Speaker 1: pro wrestling fan, but you have you you grew up

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Speaker 1: in the eighties like me, and you had a brother exactly,

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Speaker 1: which meant that I've spent a lot of television time

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Speaker 1: rooting for some of these characters in the eighties, most

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Speaker 1: notably Hulk Hogan for the Giant I mean soft spot there. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: of course there was the Princess Bride tie and so yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, of course, and that that's where we got

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Speaker 1: to see his tender heart right there. Wendy Richter, okay,

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Speaker 1: she she was backed by Cindy Lauper. Lauer was in

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Speaker 1: in the WWF yes to try the rock and wrestling thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, So, I mean I was drenched in Whole Comania,

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Speaker 1: which sounds kind of gross that I was. Well, um,

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Speaker 1: I was a little late for Whole Comania, not because

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Speaker 1: it wasn't on TV, but because I wasn't really allowed

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Speaker 1: to watch it like I was. I remember like it

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Speaker 1: would come wrestling would come on that like at odd times,

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Speaker 1: like suddenly it would be a Saturday night and they

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Speaker 1: would just be wrestling on it, and and I'd be like, Oh,

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Speaker 1: what's this. This looks kind of interesting and uh, and

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Speaker 1: then my parents would be like, Oh, you don't want

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Speaker 1: to watch that, don't don't worry about that. They put

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Speaker 1: pds on for you. Yeah. And of course when we

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Speaker 1: lived in Canada, we had no access to pro wrestling

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Speaker 1: that I remember. But but then eventually, like junior high years,

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Speaker 1: I started, you know, I had a little more time

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Speaker 1: to an access to a t D on my own,

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Speaker 1: and then I started really getting into it and exploring

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Speaker 1: it and uh. And to this day, I still I

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Speaker 1: don't follow it religiously. I mean I kind of followed religiously,

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Speaker 1: but I don't watch it religiously. I just I keep

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Speaker 1: an eye out, keep my ears peeled, and if I

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Speaker 1: hear about a match it's that's really good, then I'll

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Speaker 1: go and check it out. And it might be something

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Speaker 1: from the US, it might be something from Japan or

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Speaker 1: Mexico or what have you. Um, I'm even tempted. I've

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Speaker 1: even been out to a couple of wrestling shows here

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Speaker 1: in Atlanta. I'm really intrigued. There's one, uh that just

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Speaker 1: started up where their whole gimmick is, um that is,

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Speaker 1: the wrestlers are all monsters. So it's like Dracula versus

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Speaker 1: a wolfman. Oh. Nice. Nice. So that's kind of like

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Speaker 1: the Lucha libre concept just taken to another level. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So to just to give anyone who's not really familiar

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Speaker 1: with with what pro wrestling is on on a large,

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Speaker 1: larger national and international level, you have varying shades of it.

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Speaker 1: Like here in the US, you have the whole sort

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Speaker 1: of whole comania, larger than life characters that are to

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Speaker 1: the naive you or they're having a big fight, a

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Speaker 1: big crazy fight in a ring and then at the

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Speaker 1: end somebody wins and then uh. And then in Japan

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Speaker 1: they have it there. It's it's pretty big there as well.

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Speaker 1: It's a little more steeped in honor in tradition, but

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Speaker 1: and and at times it's just utter wackiness. So it's

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Speaker 1: very Japanese and that that sense. Uh. And then it's

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Speaker 1: also huge in Mexico where we have, of course Lucha Libre,

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Speaker 1: which I think everyone has at least been introduced to

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Speaker 1: the the the visual flare of lucha libre by this point, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, crazy costumes, guys flying all over the place.

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Speaker 1: But then at its at its roots, it all comes

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Speaker 1: back down to guys grappling with each other. Now, pro wrestling,

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Speaker 1: here's a big spoiler for everyone. Pro pro wrestling is

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Speaker 1: quote unquote fake. Now you get into trouble Yeah, I know,

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Speaker 1: I know, you get into trouble with with the with

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Speaker 1: the term fake because fake is such a big word

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Speaker 1: that it's it often takes on this negative connotation of

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Speaker 1: uh that that implies that what's going on does not

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Speaker 1: involve talent, does not involve um, you know, skill does

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Speaker 1: not involve physical wear and tear, uh and and pro

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Speaker 1: wrestling involves all of those things. It's it requires highly

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Speaker 1: skilled individuals to do it right. Uh. There's a lot

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Speaker 1: of thought that goes into it. It's it's ultimately storytelling

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Speaker 1: in the ring, like a physical storytelling, and it's very

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Speaker 1: well choreographed and it has to wait you choreographed and

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Speaker 1: or um improv because there are guys guys that have

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Speaker 1: worked with it with with each other enough. They go

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Speaker 1: out there and they don't necessarily know what all the

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Speaker 1: little moments are going to be, you know, the big

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Speaker 1: moments that are gonna happen. They know how it's gonna end, maybe,

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Speaker 1: But but there's a certain feeling each other out and

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Speaker 1: going with the flow of it that's really kind of

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Speaker 1: an improv kind of vibe um And I say choreographed

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Speaker 1: in this sense, because you and I were talking about

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Speaker 1: this yesterday that you have to have a feeling for

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Speaker 1: what's going to happen and how to execute certain moves

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Speaker 1: in order not to actually hurt the opponent or do

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Speaker 1: in a way that you don't hurt yourself. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: a cooperative battle, a cooperative fight, a cooperative wrestling battle

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Speaker 1: between two individuals or four individuals or what have you.

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Speaker 1: A referee thrown in there. It's also part of the act.

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Speaker 1: And but and then there's but again, it's a lot

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Speaker 1: of wear and tear involved, and individuals do become injured.

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Speaker 1: So you can read more about If you want to

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Speaker 1: know more about pro wrestling, go to how stuff works

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Speaker 1: dot com. We have an article called how pro Wrestling works.

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Speaker 1: We have an article called how Lucha Libre works. They're

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Speaker 1: both find um fine articles that really give you a

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Speaker 1: little more in depth about what they are and how

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Speaker 1: they work. But we're not going to spend a lot

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Speaker 1: more time on that. Instead, let's also go back in time.

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Speaker 1: Let's go to a time before pro wrestling. Well, before

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Speaker 1: we go to our time for pro wrestling, can we

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Speaker 1: talk a little bit about the universality of it, Like

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Speaker 1: why wrestling, I mean, why did it, um take such

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Speaker 1: a hold of you as a youngster and as as

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Speaker 1: a man. Now, yeah, well pro okay, so pro wrestling?

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Speaker 1: What is it that captivates people? Um? I think, I

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Speaker 1: mean a lot of it does come down to conflict. Um. Like,

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Speaker 1: I'm I've never been one for like team sports. I'm

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Speaker 1: really not into sports. But if I watch a sport,

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Speaker 1: I'm more inclined to watch something that is more about

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Speaker 1: one person against another, like say singles, tennis or something.

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Speaker 1: Um and and so pro wrestling you have you Generally,

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Speaker 1: it's to varying degrees, it's almost always a good guy

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Speaker 1: and a bad guy in the ring, locking up, engaging

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Speaker 1: in this pure physical battle, a test of strength and

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Speaker 1: a test of wills to see who is going to

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Speaker 1: be the victor, and uh, and then and then there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of and they're basically also using an unreal

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Speaker 1: form of martial arts, like it's the roots as will

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Speaker 1: discuss their in actual wrestling and actual um, you know,

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Speaker 1: physical grappling. But they are all these layers of fiction

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Speaker 1: that have built up over it, and so many of

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Speaker 1: the moves are are fantastic and just would would never

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Speaker 1: occur outside of a fictional environment, and that just adds

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Speaker 1: to the to the flare. That's what I like about

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Speaker 1: wrestling is because it does have that universality of struggle. Right,

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Speaker 1: everybody struggles, and it's highly symbolic because you don't actually

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Speaker 1: want to go mono mono with someone normally right, um,

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Speaker 1: it's slay him or her, but you may want to

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Speaker 1: release your aggression, right or your frustration. And that's what

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Speaker 1: I think is so um basic to wrestling is this,

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Speaker 1: as you say, this man against man, the struggle. And

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Speaker 1: I think, and this is kind of a joke, but

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Speaker 1: it's kind of not. Um. I think this is why

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Speaker 1: festivals took people's imaginations, at least here in the United States.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if this is the Sinfeld thing. This

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Speaker 1: is a Sinfeld episode about wrestling, your father during the

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Speaker 1: holidays to air the grievances of the past year. And

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Speaker 1: I won't go into the long history of that, but

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Speaker 1: you know, once that aired on television, people began to

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Speaker 1: actually have festivals, celebrations, And I do think that, um,

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Speaker 1: it's struck a nerve there in and airing grievances and

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Speaker 1: again this highly symbolic act. Yeah, and it certainly when

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Speaker 1: you throw in the characters. I mean in pro wrestling,

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Speaker 1: you especially say in Mexico, where the masks are so rich,

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Speaker 1: and you'll have like one character and there's an even

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Speaker 1: bigger divide between good guys and bad guys. There's less

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Speaker 1: in between, there's less gray area. It's the the rudeo's

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Speaker 1: and the technicos. So on one hand you have, you know,

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Speaker 1: guys in like devil maths and skulls and snarley beast faces,

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Speaker 1: and then the other more you know serene and u

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Speaker 1: and positive images like guys with crosses on their face.

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Speaker 1: It's because you know, a heavy uh, you know, a

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Speaker 1: Catholic element down there. Um, you know, guys with would

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Speaker 1: say like a cat face, like like blue Panther comes

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Speaker 1: to mind as a mass that was in a week

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Speaker 1: like embodying like an animal spirit and something like positive

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Speaker 1: that you would you would strive for. And so these

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Speaker 1: these symbolic characters are are locking up in the ring

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Speaker 1: and it brings to mind um like non wrestling uh

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Speaker 1: passion plays, you know, where you'll have a certain members

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Speaker 1: of a village dress up as like an evil outside

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Speaker 1: force and then others um dress up as the victor

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Speaker 1: and and reenact myths of that that are vital to

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Speaker 1: a community or people, so that you have that basic

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Speaker 1: tripe that's so important to humans because versus evil, and

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Speaker 1: you have all this pageantry. And we're going to discuss

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Speaker 1: in a little bit why this pageantry matters, why it

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Speaker 1: matters to aspects of science or economics, um. But before

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Speaker 1: we do that, we need to unpack the sport a

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Speaker 1: little bit more and tell you about some of the

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Speaker 1: basics behind it. Yeah, because again, you watch pretty much

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Speaker 1: any pro wrestling product on TV now in any country,

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Speaker 1: and there's gonna be something that's that's unreal about it.

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Speaker 1: And ultimately it is uh. It is to some degree

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Speaker 1: like choreograph or at least cooperative. It is a it

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Speaker 1: is a performance. So how did we get to the

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Speaker 1: point where we have this performance of this sport versus

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Speaker 1: its original roots, because you don't see this in every sport.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you can make a case for say Harlem Globetrotters,

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Speaker 1: isn't is an exposition a fake team having a fake

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Speaker 1: basketball game against another team. But you don't see that

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Speaker 1: in most sports. So so what is what is unique

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Speaker 1: about about pro wrestling? Okay, so you go go back

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Speaker 1: in time to like the earliest aspect of human culture,

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Speaker 1: and you have people law king up. You have people

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Speaker 1: wrestle like wrestling is is pretty much as old as

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Speaker 1: humans because at the very base you have conflict, be

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Speaker 1: steel conflict between people that involve clawing each other, dragging

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Speaker 1: each other to the ground, biting, jabbing, butt, punching the

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Speaker 1: whole nine yards but punching, but punching band in most

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Speaker 1: most most combat sports. So so so just imagine that

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Speaker 1: I want to just like cave me in tearing each

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Speaker 1: other up and rolling around the ground trying to kill

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Speaker 1: each other and strangle each other. Out of that, out

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Speaker 1: of the basic skills involved in that, you end up

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Speaker 1: developing a metaphor for that kind of combat. Because you

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Speaker 1: live in a society that needs cooperation, right, you can't

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Speaker 1: go around just brutally beating each other to death. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you need to, like you say, are your grievances and

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Speaker 1: open a way that doesn't end up with somebody dead.

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Speaker 1: You end up with this this kind of proxy battle

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Speaker 1: in the same way that sport itself is ultimately kind

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Speaker 1: of a proxy war. Uh. Wrestling is like a proxy

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Speaker 1: tooth and nail battle to the death. It's a metaphor

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Speaker 1: for that. So everywhere around the world you have some

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Speaker 1: sort of tradition of wrestling. And and if you want

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Speaker 1: anyone who wants to learn more about the various types

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Speaker 1: of wrestling out there, I highly recommend you check out

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Speaker 1: the blog wrestling roots dot org. Uh. They go, they

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Speaker 1: go into just all these different they travel around, they

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Speaker 1: their photos, there's video, and they go into the different traditions, like,

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Speaker 1: for instance, there's traditional Turkish oil wrestling, which a number

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Speaker 1: of you're probably familiar with, but I was not aware of.

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Speaker 1: I was it does it sounds like, you know, Turkish delight, um,

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Speaker 1: But I was not aware of just how much oil

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Speaker 1: is involved. Like it's not just like a little bit

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Speaker 1: like greased yourself up for the tanning bat or something,

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Speaker 1: but lots of olive oil like leaders of olive oil

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Speaker 1: poured over them and also down their leather shorts, just

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Speaker 1: you know, because it makes it harder for your opponent

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Speaker 1: to get a grip on you. I guess adds the

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Speaker 1: passion of it um. Then likewise, there's also India's uh

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Speaker 1: Kushti wrestling, which which is it is neat too because

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Speaker 1: there are no points in this. You can only win

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Speaker 1: by pinning, and you can also grab onto the shorts,

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Speaker 1: like some wrestling traditions are like don't grab onto the shorts,

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Speaker 1: and this tradition it's okay to use the shorts for leverage,

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Speaker 1: which I guess is like a sumo in that regard,

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Speaker 1: because I think in sumo wrestling, yeah you had to grab.

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Speaker 1: You had to explain that to me because I kept

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Speaker 1: thinking that people were getting pants. Yeah, there's no pantsing

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Speaker 1: and custi. But Kusti is also interesting because they they

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Speaker 1: the wrestling takes place on softened earth where they've poured

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Speaker 1: out this ge mixture to the soil um, which which

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Speaker 1: is neat. You have this element of ritual to it

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Speaker 1: a well, and there's just any anywhere on Earth you

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Speaker 1: can go you can find some sort of culture of

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Speaker 1: wrestling but as far as the the transition from these

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Speaker 1: cultural folk wrestling traditions, uh, the transition from that into

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Speaker 1: professional wrestling, we end up looking at European models. They

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Speaker 1: are all these different European models of of of wrestling,

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Speaker 1: of folk wrestling that were popular and continue to be popular.

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Speaker 1: But but certainly back in the nineteenth century you had

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Speaker 1: a couple of things of note. You had you had

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Speaker 1: the the catches catch can style of wrestling, and you

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Speaker 1: had the Lancashire style, and they're closely related. They're closely related.

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Speaker 1: There's this guy named J. W. Chambers and he was

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Speaker 1: kind of a minor celebrity and he editor, he was

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Speaker 1: the editor of Land and Water, and he started promoting

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Speaker 1: a new grappling system UM that he called catches catchcan style,

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Speaker 1: first down to lose and uh. And this was this

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Speaker 1: was a folk wrestling tradition that also wasn't completely groundbreaking

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Speaker 1: because it was based on earlier models, but it involved

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Speaker 1: guys locking up UM and you could pretty much apply

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Speaker 1: any type of hold above um above the waist and

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Speaker 1: and first down to lose is a big part of

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Speaker 1: this too, because this actually changed the sport quite a bit,

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Speaker 1: because otherwise if you're looking at past traditions. You could

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Speaker 1: have wrestling matches going on for days, meaning you know,

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Speaker 1: the person hadn't submitted yet said hey, I give up,

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Speaker 1: and so they would break for the day and resume

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Speaker 1: the next day. Well, the Lancashire style, Yeah, I was

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Speaker 1: was like that. I was reading this book Wrestling by

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Speaker 1: Walter Arms Armstrong, which is an eight nine book where

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Speaker 1: he's just so it's this is a pre pro wrestling

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Speaker 1: book talking about these different folk traditions and he has

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Speaker 1: some a couple of bits I want to read from

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Speaker 1: that about the Lancashire style. Um quote. Sometimes a wrestler

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Speaker 1: will apparently make an unsuccessful attempt to wrench off the

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Speaker 1: other's head, twist his arms from the sockets, or break

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Speaker 1: his fingers, finally rolling him bodily over, all of which

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Speaker 1: are eluded in a simply marvelous manner. Their elasticity of

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Speaker 1: their movements is at times something remarkable, as they struggle, ride,

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Speaker 1: and twist four hours together before obtaining a fall. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it would go on. Not only would have gone for hours,

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Speaker 1: but here here's another quote from the book. When a

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Speaker 1: match is not concluded on the day appointed, the referee

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Speaker 1: orders the competents to meet again and commenced wrestling after

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Speaker 1: being waited at the same time in place every day

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Speaker 1: except Sunday until the decision has arrived at So you

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Speaker 1: would have this this match that would go on for dates.

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Speaker 1: Uh you know, and they were like, you know, their

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Speaker 1: their minor breakes as wells't it just constant action? But

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Speaker 1: still it's just goes on for days and then and

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Speaker 1: then there's the brutality of weary. I read the part

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Speaker 1: we're talking about people's heads being twisted. Um, but this

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Speaker 1: is a quote from a book called Fencing that had

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Speaker 1: a number of authors, but Walter Armstrong also contributed to this,

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Speaker 1: and the quote goes with regard to Lancashire wrestling, there

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Speaker 1: can be no question that it is the most barbarous

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Speaker 1: of the English systems, and it more nearly approaches the

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Speaker 1: French dog fighting and tumbling than any other. A fair

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Speaker 1: stand up fight with the naked fists is the merest

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Speaker 1: skim milk, in fact, a perfect drawing room entertainment in comparison. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the the rules of it were pretty laxed. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: basically like tried, don't crush your opponent's fingers, right, like

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Speaker 1: this was sort of it would happen, It would happen.

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Speaker 1: They would tend to say, please, don't break each other's bones.

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Speaker 1: And the reason why the especially the fingers that are

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Speaker 1: the hands that they frowned upon that is because a

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Speaker 1: lot of the people who were doing this, we're working

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Speaker 1: class in parts like Shire, England, they're working in coal mines.

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Speaker 1: So obviously if you crush your opponent's fingers then you're

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Speaker 1: putting that person out work for a while. So there's

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Speaker 1: a cultural contract here. It's like this is wrestling is fun,

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Speaker 1: but we all have other jobs we need to do.

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Speaker 1: That being said, the Lancashire style involved struggling on the ground,

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Speaker 1: catching legs, which the catch system that is described in

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Speaker 1: this book does not, catching legs, twisting limbs, bending fingers, um.

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Speaker 1: And so it was so you had two things going

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Speaker 1: on here, three things. Actually. First of all, there's something

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Speaker 1: about it. It's really entertaining. People really getting into this.

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Speaker 1: They enjoyed doing it, they enjoyed watching it, but it's

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Speaker 1: super long. They commitment commitment to to to act in

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Speaker 1: and commit it to watch. And then it's really violent,

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Speaker 1: and you would have situations where you know, individuals would

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Speaker 1: become really badly injured in this sport. So how do

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Speaker 1: you make money off of something like that? Right? You're

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Speaker 1: trying to your promoter. You want to carry this around

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Speaker 1: from town to town and and have these matches and

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Speaker 1: people pay to watch them and and all of this.

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Speaker 1: You don't want it to be that long. You want

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Speaker 1: it to You want of a product that you can

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Speaker 1: market a little better. Um. You know, it's like how

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Speaker 1: many people really have it in them to go see

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Speaker 1: Wagner as the ring cycle where you have to go

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Speaker 1: like multiple days to see the whole opera. You want

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Speaker 1: to you know, condense version. You want something smaller most

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Speaker 1: people do, you know. So so let's find a version

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Speaker 1: of this that fits into a smaller package. And let's

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Speaker 1: find a version that doesn't injure the participants as easily,

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Speaker 1: because these are ultimately the people that you're you're making

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Speaker 1: your money off off. You know. It's like we were

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Speaker 1: podcasters and uh and writers and editors here at how

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Speaker 1: stuff worth and general only the risk of injury on

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Speaker 1: the job is low. It's more like you know, carpal

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Speaker 1: tunnel syndrome and strained eyes, paper cuts. Well, there you go.

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Speaker 1: What if we were using a type of paper that

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Speaker 1: was like just cutting fingers off left and right. You't

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Speaker 1: want to eliminate that paper because you need these people

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Speaker 1: to run the business, to keep the business running. And

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Speaker 1: likewise with the wrestling, you need to make it a

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Speaker 1: little less brutal. But you but the thing is when

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Speaker 1: you take the if you take too much of the

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Speaker 1: brutality out of it, if you say, all right, well,

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Speaker 1: don't touch the fingers at all because we don't don't

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Speaker 1: want to risk that, or alright, no grabbing the legs anymore,

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Speaker 1: then you end up taking away from what is attracting

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Speaker 1: people to it. So what do you do? You start

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Speaker 1: tweaking it a little bit with you start layering just

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Speaker 1: a little bit of fiction on it. Right, and this

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Speaker 1: is where you start to see some of the manipulation, uh,

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Speaker 1: coming into the sport and just sort of mounting and

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Speaker 1: mounting as it progresses through history. Um yeah, like maybe

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Speaker 1: it starts with all right, guys, when you go out

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Speaker 1: there tonight, Um, just go like one hour instead of six,

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Speaker 1: just one hour and also just kind of work together

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Speaker 1: a little bit so that you don't, you know, injure

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Speaker 1: one another in a really horrible way. Right, It becomes

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Speaker 1: so much more about showmanship. But what I wanted to

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Speaker 1: point out is that this is something that became very

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Speaker 1: popular all over the world. Um, as you already noted,

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Speaker 1: in various forms, but this sort of catches catch can wrestling,

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Speaker 1: and this Lancashire was actually exported when immigrants went to

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Speaker 1: different countries like in the United States. Became very popular

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Speaker 1: and it even hit the big time at the Olympics

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Speaker 1: at one point in nineteen o eight, it showed up there.

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Speaker 1: And I wanted to point this out because this is

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Speaker 1: just seems so fictional, but it's not. Abraham Lincoln actually

396
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Speaker 1: was uh one of the stars of catch wrestling in

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Speaker 1: the United States. Yeah, I mean, he apparently was a

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Speaker 1: big dog in the sport. In fact, this is from

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Speaker 1: a Sports Illustrated article The Civil Warrior Lincoln with this

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Speaker 1: was described as an onlooker as quote the big buck

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Speaker 1: of the lick, and um, this onlooker saw Lincoln give

402
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Speaker 1: the notorious county wrestling champion Jack Armstrong the worst thrashing

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Speaker 1: of his life one hot September day, more than one

404
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Speaker 1: sixty three years ago. The article goes on to say

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Speaker 1: that that was the future president's most celebrated victory. Frustrated

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Speaker 1: from the start by Lincoln's tremendous reach a k a

407
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Speaker 1: his height, Armstrong began stomping on his opponent's feet. Lincoln

408
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Speaker 1: lost his temper and a few tosses later, Armstrong lost consciousness.

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Speaker 1: So I mean here Lincoln was a brawler, is what

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Speaker 1: I'm saying, And and had some throws, he had some

411
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Speaker 1: like that. Maybe there was a Lincoln suplex in there.

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Speaker 1: And I wish I could have Linken the pile driver. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: who knows what he innovated? Yeah, And that the article

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Speaker 1: that you were looking at there, it also mentioned that

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Speaker 1: a few other presidents UM were involved with some type

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Speaker 1: of wrestling at some point, like of course Teddy Roosevelt

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Speaker 1: was was up to grappling around with the boys of

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Speaker 1: the dust, UM, I would have been surprised he not.

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Speaker 1: But but Lincoln was into the rough stuff. He was

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Speaker 1: into the catch wrestling. Yeah. And I think that that

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Speaker 1: kind of points to the popularity of the sport and

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Speaker 1: the fact that again it was exported and it started

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Speaker 1: to show up at these county fairs. And then this

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Speaker 1: is where you began to see these various counties loosely

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Speaker 1: organizing themselves and producing winners from different regions of the country,

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Speaker 1: and believe it or not, these regions eventually coalesced into

427
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:33,640
Speaker 1: what is now the World Wrestling Federation. Well and well

428
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:37,960
Speaker 1: now it's the World Wrestling Entertainment, World Wrestling as the

429
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 1: big billion dollar industry that it is today. Yeah, you

430
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,320
Speaker 1: mentioned the Olympics that, like, the history of wrestling in

431
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:49,040
Speaker 1: the Olympics is pretty interesting. Um. That was the first

432
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,159
Speaker 1: modern Olympics and Greco Roman wrestling was there. But the

433
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,959
Speaker 1: interesting thing about Greco Roman wrestling, it's basically European wrestling.

434
00:22:55,960 --> 00:23:00,560
Speaker 1: It's based in European folk wrestling traditions, particularly some French traditions.

435
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,240
Speaker 1: So it's really not all I mean, you can you

436
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:06,240
Speaker 1: call it Greco Roman, but yeah, you know, it's it's

437
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:09,280
Speaker 1: more like the central you know, Western Europe kind of

438
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,400
Speaker 1: vibe to it. Um. But it's only been in the

439
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 1: Olympics regularly since nineteen o eight and uh and then

440
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,400
Speaker 1: in the nineteen o four Games in St. Louis, Uh.

441
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,720
Speaker 1: In that particular year, UH, a limited form of catches

442
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:27,200
Speaker 1: catch can wrestling was there, but Greco Roman was not. UH.

443
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 1: And it was the nineteen o eight London Games where

444
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 1: we saw both Greco Roman and catches Catch can finally

445
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 1: coming back. So um yeah, it is a sort of

446
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:40,199
Speaker 1: casual observer of of wrestling and Olympics. I always kind

447
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,160
Speaker 1: of thought, oh, I guess Greco Roman that's the real deal.

448
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,639
Speaker 1: That's the old stuff and and that's and it's been

449
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 1: around forever, and that pro wrestling was the new stuff.

450
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:50,119
Speaker 1: Is that were you thinking? Yeah, yeah, just kind of

451
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 1: you throw it into that kind of dichotomy. But but

452
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:57,400
Speaker 1: it's not quite that simple. Um So anyway, but back

453
00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,160
Speaker 1: to blayering the fiction on. You know, like you said,

454
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:01,200
Speaker 1: you're going around to these differ and counties, You're you're

455
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,680
Speaker 1: you're letting the guys know, you know, work together, put

456
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 1: it in a certain time frame that makes sense, and

457
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 1: then all the other changes become naturally, like you can

458
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 1: imagine all the every step of the way on on

459
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 1: the journey from from catch wrestling to pro wrestling, because

460
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 1: you might say, all right, well, you know, um, it

461
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 1: would really make more sense if the hero one tonight

462
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 1: rather than the villain, or rather the villain should really

463
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:27,879
Speaker 1: win tonight, because then it's gonna make it all the

464
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,359
Speaker 1: more awesome when the hero wins the next night. So

465
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:34,120
Speaker 1: you start end up you end up throwing in narrative flows. Um,

466
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 1: you know, think of things like everyone loves an underdog story,

467
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 1: so that that you it's if you wait for underdog

468
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 1: stories to emerge organically in a sporting environment, you know,

469
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 1: you gotta sometimes you gotta be pretty patient. But if

470
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,919
Speaker 1: you can orchestrate it, if you can spin it, and

471
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 1: if you can you can say, hey, you're the underdog

472
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,119
Speaker 1: tonight and it happens, then you're improving the product that

473
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:57,640
Speaker 1: you're selling. So you keep going and then you can

474
00:24:57,720 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 1: then you get to the point where you're throwing. You're

475
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,680
Speaker 1: adding element to the physicality of the match, to the

476
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 1: even the physics of the match that make it more flashy,

477
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 1: that make it more entertaining, and decade upon decade, it

478
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 1: just builds and builds into this into the largely unreal

479
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 1: martial art that that you see in the the fictional

480
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,680
Speaker 1: performance sport of pro wrestling today, which he sees a

481
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,679
Speaker 1: system in place right that is giving us a measure

482
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 1: of predictability, but also giving the audience what it wants.

483
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 1: And roll Ebarts, you sent me that's great article or

484
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,399
Speaker 1: rather essay by the French philosopher Roll Embarts, and he

485
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 1: took on wrestling, and he talked about why it is

486
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 1: um so intoxicating to people, and basically it was saying,

487
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,479
Speaker 1: you know, it's an I'm paraphrasing here, but he was

488
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 1: physically saying that it's not a real image of passion

489
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 1: that the audience wants. They just want an image of passion.

490
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 1: It doesn't have to come from a real place. And

491
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: that's really the contract that the audience has with the

492
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 1: performers is just give us a show. And um, we'll

493
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,440
Speaker 1: talk a little bit more about this in a moment,

494
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 1: about how this show aspect is really reflected in our

495
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 1: daily lives. But before we do that, we should probably

496
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 1: take a break. Yes, let's take a quick break, and

497
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 1: when we come back, we're just gonna talk briefly about

498
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:20,399
Speaker 1: the kind of death of Cafe um And well, I

499
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,400
Speaker 1: guess we'll talk about what Cafe is. We really didn't

500
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 1: totally describe it. And then also we will hear from

501
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: an actual pro wrestler and podcaster, Colt Cabanner. All right,

502
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,399
Speaker 1: we're back, All right, yeah we are. And you know what,

503
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 1: I don't think that people realize, but when you were

504
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,439
Speaker 1: talking about stamps dot com, you were actually wearing your

505
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:45,880
Speaker 1: wrestling outfit and your cape was waving in the wind

506
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 1: behind you. That was my my promo I was cutting there.

507
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,359
Speaker 1: I felt like he sounded very like w W E

508
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 1: that that that would actually be great. I would. It's

509
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 1: too bad the Macho Man is no longer with us,

510
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 1: because I would love to hear a Stamps dot Com

511
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 1: advertise for much of man of course, because he's he's

512
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,640
Speaker 1: got or he had a lot of moxie. Right. And

513
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 1: that's what we're talking about here when we're talking about

514
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 1: how pro wrestling, what we think about it today, that

515
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 1: the sort of fakery, uh, the illusion that's put forth

516
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 1: or not so much the illusion anymore is predicated on

517
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 1: this moxie and this ability to put forward a character

518
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 1: and put forward these tropes and act them out. Um.

519
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 1: And this is related to this term called kape. Yeah,

520
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:32,679
Speaker 1: because like we said, the gradual um addition of fiction

521
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 1: to catch wrestling. Uh, you can't just like the first

522
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 1: night you did it, the first night that that you're

523
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:41,560
Speaker 1: out there and say and you say, hey, you guys

524
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 1: are gonna work together on this and he's gonna win.

525
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 1: You don't amount announced that to the crowd and likewise

526
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,920
Speaker 1: that it you just don't market the product like that. Uh.

527
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 1: So you have this thing, this cape this uh this

528
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:59,400
Speaker 1: Carney talk for keeping the secret. You don't let the audience.

529
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:01,440
Speaker 1: You don't let them marks know what's up. You don't

530
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 1: you don't explain to them how the magic trick works.

531
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,680
Speaker 1: You don't let them know that there's a magic trick

532
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: at all. If if one dude is acting like he's

533
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,120
Speaker 1: the you know, the healish villain, and the other guy

534
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 1: is that is the face, the baby face, the good guy,

535
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 1: they have to keep fooling everyone. They have to keep

536
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,399
Speaker 1: the act up because it's it's the act is what

537
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,880
Speaker 1: they're selling. But yeah, that's this idea of cafebe and uh,

538
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 1: it's spot that the etymology of this has its roots

539
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 1: in a sort of pig Latin, right, So fake kbe,

540
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:34,400
Speaker 1: keep it fake, keep it fake um And that there

541
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 1: apparently are various ways to say this, like kee fib,

542
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: like that might have been the way that Carney's would

543
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 1: have said it back in the day. It is. Yeah,

544
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 1: this is some straight up Carney stuff we're talking about

545
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 1: here with this is but this is what has colored

546
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: pro wrestling, and this is what is so interesting about

547
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 1: and as you had pointed out, you've got the heel

548
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 1: who is the bad guy, right, um, and you've got

549
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 1: the face who is the good guy. So whole Covin

550
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 1: was your tip goold face right yeah. I mean he

551
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 1: was America, he was you know, and he was he

552
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: was our hopes and dreams. He was our vitamins eating, um,

553
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: muscle gaining good guy, just out there fighting the good

554
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 1: fight against you villains and of course foreigners. Um. Because

555
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 1: that's that's another thing about restumes. You see it invoking

556
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 1: various cultural fears and worries and topics, um, often in

557
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 1: a cheap or exploitive way to generate heat from the crowd.

558
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 1: That's right. And again though that this provides that catharsis

559
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 1: right to see this pageantry played out before you. Um.

560
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 1: And of course a lot of these characters too, As

561
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 1: you had said, they build up these narratives and these mythologies,

562
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 1: and a lot of them turn right, so that the

563
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: good guys, the faces sometimes might get overwhelmed by their

564
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: egos and start acting like a heel. Uh. And then

565
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 1: later on maybe they have some sort of redemped and

566
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 1: so you get to watch characters fall from grace and

567
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 1: then to send back to two Hero Doom. I mean,

568
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 1: it's that those are that's the kind of drama people

569
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 1: want to see, and that's so that's the kind of

570
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 1: drama they orchestrated and presented. Now. The thing about KFVE, though,

571
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 1: is that as time rolls on, as the product becomes

572
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 1: further and further removed from actual grappling, and also and

573
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 1: also when you're throw in TV and it just exposure,

574
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 1: it really becomes more and more obvious that what is

575
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 1: happening is something that's orchestrated, and especially to if you're

576
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: if you know, you're involving people of different skill levels.

577
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 1: So there maybe two guys who can go out there

578
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 1: and put on a like a totally believable match, and

579
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 1: even the unbelievable things they can make seem real. But

580
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 1: then you get some guys out there who are green

581
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: and don't really know what they're doing, and you know,

582
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 1: it's it's like watching a um a, a poor magician

583
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 1: trying to do a trick with coins falling out of

584
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 1: their pockets. Right Anyway, eventually it's not that well kept

585
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 1: a secret. Everyone really knows and you know, it's more

586
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 1: like us Anna Claus level thing. Even among children, you know,

587
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 1: where someone's like, hey, you know that stuffs fake, right,

588
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: and they're like, no, man, it's not fake at all.

589
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 1: But but but then it reaches a point though, uh

590
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 1: in nine so the McMahon's have built up um, they've

591
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 1: taken all these like independent territories, and they've really built

592
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 1: up this this World Wrestling Federation. Then they're they're beginning

593
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 1: to roll in the dough again. These are the territories

594
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 1: that were established in the nine hundreds in the United States.

595
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: So again loosely organized, but this is what he evolved into.

596
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 1: The McMahon family became sort of head of that. Yeah. Yeah,

597
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 1: And and part of keeping cafeve though was that they

598
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 1: were also there were things like the state athletic commissions

599
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 1: were regulating the business in large ways, Like there was

600
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 1: I remember reading that this guy Milmascaris, who is a luchador.

601
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 1: He would come up and work matches and there was

602
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 1: like some sort of like some sort of law in

603
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 1: New York where no one could wear a mask in

604
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 1: a match, and so he couldn't go there to do

605
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 1: to do his his matches because the Athletic um Commission

606
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 1: was had this rule. So it really reaches the point

607
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 1: that where it comes down to money, and so vincement

608
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 1: man h breaks cafame in a big way. He hated

609
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 1: to pay state athletic commissions to regulate his business. So

610
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: he just finally admitted, Hey, it's not a sport, so

611
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 1: back off, and I'm not going to give you all

612
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 1: of this money anymore because it's sports entertainment. It's not sport.

613
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: Right into the audience care now because at that point

614
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 1: everyone really knew. It's kind of like it's like Santa Claus.

615
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 1: You know Santa Claus. You reach a point where you know,

616
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 1: Santa Claus isn't isn't real. It is not a physical

617
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 1: reality that there is. It's fiction and myth and uh

618
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 1: and and and you have to suspend disbelief. But it's

619
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: still it's still entertaining. It's still something that you can

620
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 1: involve yourself in. And so yeah, people still watch it.

621
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 1: They suspend disbelief when they watch it. Uh. But it

622
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 1: does make for a really weird kind of area because

623
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: it's it's not quite like watching a movie where you're like, oh,

624
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: you know, there's a there's an actor playing a character.

625
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 1: Like it's more like there's this actor, but he's pretending

626
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 1: to be the character all the time. Um, and it's uh,

627
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 1: it's we'll we'll discuss uh here. It's there's more of

628
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 1: this gray area between truth and fiction. And that's kind

629
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: of like that's kind of what the modern cafe is

630
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 1: all about. Well, should we hear from Cult Cabana here? Yes, Yeah,

631
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 1: let's uh, let's hear from Cult. Just a little introduction

632
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 1: to those of you who are not familiar with Cult Cabanah.

633
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 1: He has about fourteen years in the pro wrestling business.

634
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 1: He's wrestled for World Wrestling Entertainment, Ring of Honor, Pro Wrestling. Noah,

635
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 1: that's a Japanese promotion, Uh, Juggalo Championship Wrestling, which is

636
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: exactly what it sounds like. The Insane Clown Possible, um Chakara,

637
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 1: which is a really cool, like family kid friendly promotion,

638
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 1: UM up North, uh National Wrestling Alliance, and then countless

639
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 1: other you know, independence because there's still a lot of

640
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 1: independent wrestling out there, uh, but more notably to a

641
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 1: lot of you. He also hosts the Art of Wrestling

642
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 1: podcast where he interviews other wrestlers and they just kind

643
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 1: of talk about wrestling but also about life and all.

644
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 1: And it's a It's it's A it's a It's a

645
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:11,240
Speaker 1: really entertaining podcast. He has also been on Mark Marrin's

646
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 1: WTF podcast, and he's also been featured on the Sound

647
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:15,879
Speaker 1: of the Young America. And if you want to learn

648
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 1: more about him and find out and also check out

649
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: some of his episodes see where he's performing, you can

650
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 1: go to we love cult dot com and he has

651
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 1: all that information there. So I recently spoke with with

652
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 1: Colt on the phone, and uh, and we were wondering

653
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 1: to what degree we should keep Kfebe here and and

654
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,479
Speaker 1: I could act like I'm actually speaking to him live

655
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 1: when actually I'm rereading my questions that I asked him,

656
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 1: and then we're cutting in his his answers. But but

657
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 1: I guess we should suspend Kfebe a little bit since

658
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 1: that's what we're talking about. Uh So here we go.

659
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,399
Speaker 1: I'm gonna ask the first question, and Colt is gonna

660
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 1: can you ask in a wrestler voice? No? I think

661
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 1: that disrespectful. Well, no, I'm just in the spirit of

662
00:34:55,680 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 1: kfe No. Alright, So, first off, do you have a

663
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:03,919
Speaker 1: specific character in mind when you perform in the ring?

664
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 1: I have a specific persona or character when I go

665
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 1: out in the ring, it's it's a lot like who

666
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,360
Speaker 1: I am in real life. But I know that I

667
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 1: have to be on and I'm not going to break

668
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:19,799
Speaker 1: away from this character and I'm going to commit no

669
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 1: matter what because I'm on stage or you know, slash

670
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 1: ring and so so. Yeah, I want to keep to

671
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 1: my character and and what I have going through my

672
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 1: head for what I want to do in a specific

673
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 1: match or instance. So based on your experiences, do acting

674
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 1: and wrestling go hand in hand? I see, uh, I

675
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 1: see a big parallel. I definitely see a big parallel

676
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:45,359
Speaker 1: to acting and wrestling. And I see it now more

677
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,880
Speaker 1: than ever that I've kind of dabbled or I'm putting

678
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 1: the two together and correlation. More than ever, I see

679
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 1: that they're the similarities between the both. I guess what

680
00:35:55,920 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 1: once I started once I was wrestling. As I was wrestling,

681
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 1: I was never like, oh, I'm an actor. I see

682
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:03,839
Speaker 1: the similarities. But then when I started doing a little

683
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:07,760
Speaker 1: bit of acting in comedy, then you realize, holy crap,

684
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 1: I've been acting and doing company for the past ten

685
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 1: years in the wrestling ring. Now imagine a number of

686
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 1: listeners at this point may have kind of Wikipedia and

687
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,399
Speaker 1: you look up Cold Cabana and uh and over there

688
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 1: on the right, you'll see a list of aliases that

689
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 1: he's used in the ring. Different because most some guys

690
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 1: in wrestling may go in and they're only ever like

691
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 1: one name, but most end up using various names, various gimmicks,

692
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 1: various personas that they take on in the ring. Uh.

693
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 1: Just looking at the list for Colt, he has wrestled

694
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 1: as Chris Guy, as Colton Nevada, as the Goon, as

695
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 1: Matt Classic, as Masked Flipper Number seven, as Officer Colt Cabana,

696
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 1: as Punchline, as Scott Colton, which uh this is really

697
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 1: as Scotty Goldman, as Twinkie the Kid, and Colt Daddy.

698
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 1: Uh so Colt of all these characters, and granted some

699
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 1: of these are just one offs that you know, maybe

700
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 1: only existed once. Which one is the furthest from the

701
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 1: real you. I do character called Officer Cold Cabana, and

702
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 1: I do that for the Insane clown Poss's Juggalo Championship Wrestling.

703
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 1: And the greatest thing about it, and what's the most

704
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 1: interesting thing is that people have learned to love the

705
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 1: character Cold Cabana, the fun lucky the fun, loving, happy,

706
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 1: gold lucky professional wrestler, the nice guy of professional wrestling,

707
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 1: and then they know it seems like it's almost like

708
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 1: they're in on the joke of when I go and

709
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 1: I become the bad guy at the insane clown Posse shows,

710
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 1: and now I'm the Officer Cold Cabana and I'm swearing,

711
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 1: and I'm vogler and I'm rude and I'm vowing to

712
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 1: take the Juggalos and arrest them one by one. And

713
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 1: it's so completely different not only from who I am

714
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:47,239
Speaker 1: the person, but who Cold Cabana the wrestler is. Is

715
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 1: that this character has taken on like a life of

716
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,280
Speaker 1: its own and in each of its own, and people

717
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:56,239
Speaker 1: really seem to love it, I think because they know

718
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 1: that it's so far from who I am and what

719
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 1: I am as a person. Now, do you ever find

720
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 1: yourself carrying Officer Colt Cabana with you outside of the

721
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 1: ring when you go back in the locker room? No, No,

722
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 1: I know I'll never come back after a performances Officer

723
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:14,840
Speaker 1: Cold Cabana and find myself in the same character. I

724
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:17,359
Speaker 1: think because I've been doing it for so long and

725
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 1: I know exactly when I go through that curtain when

726
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 1: the matches ended, to switch it right off. But when

727
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 1: I'm in the middle of the action and the adrenaline

728
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:27,959
Speaker 1: is going and I'm allowed to do whatever I want,

729
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 1: I definitely get carried away. And I definitely, I definitely um.

730
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,319
Speaker 1: I love the fact that I can do everything I

731
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:38,920
Speaker 1: want and I and I. What people don't know is

732
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 1: that almost like my real interpersonality will come out because

733
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 1: I can swear and I could be vulgar and it's

734
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 1: accepted and it's fine. So any like real life frustrations

735
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 1: that I really have is allowed to come out in

736
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 1: this character of Officer Cold Cabana, the bad guy. Because

737
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 1: as Cold Cabana, the good guy, the fun, lucky, happy,

738
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 1: go love, you know, loving guy, I could never let

739
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 1: that out or else my character would be ruined. But

740
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 1: when I let it out as Officer a Cult, it's

741
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,840
Speaker 1: what it's expected. So when I mean, I'll get carried away,

742
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 1: and for me it's almost therapeutic because I'm allowed to

743
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:17,439
Speaker 1: do it, and and honestly, the more carried away I get,

744
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 1: the better the character is. So can you speak a

745
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 1: little more about the blurred lines between fiction and fantasy

746
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 1: and pro wrestling it's just that's the one big difference

747
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:32,359
Speaker 1: between you know people. It's interesting because I think that's

748
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 1: where the line of quote unquote fake comes from a lot.

749
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 1: Is that your favorite movie that you go and in

750
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 1: the middle of it, If um, you know Brad Pitt

751
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 1: is in Fight Club, no one's going in the middle

752
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: of that movie. This is fake. This is that they

753
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:50,360
Speaker 1: get drawn in there, enthralled and they love it and

754
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,240
Speaker 1: it's the greatest thing. And then afterwards you take yourself

755
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 1: out of that world. You know that that was Brad Pitt,

756
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: not what was his name of the movie I forget,

757
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 1: but Tyler And I think, yeah, right, that was Brad Pitt,

758
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 1: not Tyler Dirten. But for us it's funny because as

759
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 1: it's kind of as a as a businessman myself, and

760
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,320
Speaker 1: you know, I have to portray the character Cold Cabana

761
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:17,840
Speaker 1: at all times and that's I'm not I don't My

762
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,800
Speaker 1: business card doesn't say Scott Colton. It says Cold Cabanna.

763
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 1: And that's how I make my money. And it's a

764
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 1: twenty four hour business, not only with the wrestling at shows,

765
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 1: but then outside the shows and podcasting, and I have

766
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 1: to keep up this, uh, you know, and the YouTube

767
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 1: and Twitter and everything. It's all done under the guys

768
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 1: of Cold Cabana, unlike where Brad Pitt would you know,

769
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 1: tweet or do his business as Brad Pitt, but then

770
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 1: he goes and has a two hour block of Tyler

771
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,839
Speaker 1: Dirton where he's performing is that character or if he's

772
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:50,840
Speaker 1: in seven or another movie. He's going from character to

773
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 1: character to character, whereas I am always going to be

774
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,319
Speaker 1: Cold Cabana and that's always going to have to pay

775
00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:59,720
Speaker 1: my bills. So I asked, I always have to protect

776
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:02,799
Speaker 1: that character of Cold Cabana, and that's kind of where

777
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:06,760
Speaker 1: Kid comes into into play, is my protection of that character.

778
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:09,879
Speaker 1: So this is more or less the modern Yeah, it's

779
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 1: it's hard because a lot of wrestling obviously has kind

780
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 1: of been exposed. People enjoy it for what it is

781
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 1: now and the right the idea of KFB was to

782
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: keep that secret of what's going on in the wrestling industry,

783
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 1: so everyone thinks it's on the up and up and

784
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 1: that it's a it's a full fight, you know, it's

785
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 1: a full exhibition, I guess, or a fight and not

786
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 1: an exhibition. And now there's yeah, there's different I guess

787
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 1: ideas of Kape. Also, I don't want I think it's

788
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 1: so insulting when someone's like, is it fake, just tell

789
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 1: me or whatever. And you know, a magician, no one

790
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 1: ever said David Copperfield was fake. A magician is not

791
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 1: going to go out. We all get the idea of

792
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 1: what magic is and what illusions are, and if you're

793
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:04,840
Speaker 1: a good fan or if you're someone who loves that

794
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:08,239
Speaker 1: idea of magic or illusions, you're not going to be

795
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 1: screaming that this is fake or I don't you know,

796
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 1: obviously this isn't real. And that's the same idea of wrestling.

797
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 1: And the magicians have their world of cape of keeping

798
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:21,399
Speaker 1: their allusions to themselves, and us as wrestlers, we want

799
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:25,240
Speaker 1: to keep our allusions to ourselves, and it's it's better

800
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 1: if it's not completely out in the open. For the

801
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 1: fact that you will enjoy the show more if you

802
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:33,720
Speaker 1: allow yourself to kind of just kind of be stupid

803
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 1: and just enjoy it for what it is. Good versus bad,

804
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:41,720
Speaker 1: heals versus uh, you know, baby faces, heroes versus villains.

805
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:43,840
Speaker 1: That's the best thing about wrestling. And if you just

806
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:49,320
Speaker 1: stupefy yourself and enjoy the show, then you're allowing yourself

807
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 1: to have a better experience, and that's when the cappe

808
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:54,759
Speaker 1: is kept in part. All right, So we're gonna pick

809
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 1: up a little more with cold here in just a second.

810
00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:00,360
Speaker 1: But at this point we want to mention a really

811
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:04,279
Speaker 1: cool article that we ran across that that really gets

812
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 1: to the heart of way cafe is so fascinating for

813
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 1: non wrestling fans and for just people in general. And

814
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 1: it's a It's an article called Kafade by Eric Weinstein,

815
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 1: who is a mathematician and economist UM with the Norton Group.

816
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 1: So you probably want of what is a mathematician and

817
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 1: an economist care about pro wrestling? What is it about? Uh?

818
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:28,760
Speaker 1: In Weinstein's world, the altered reality of layered falsehoods uh,

819
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 1: And that is kade, Like why does that matter to

820
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:35,319
Speaker 1: the rest of us? Um? And it's interesting because this

821
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 1: was a question that he was answering from edge dot org.

822
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 1: Every year they pose an annual question or question to

823
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 1: various thinkers, and the question he was answering was what

824
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 1: scientific concept would improve everyone's cognitive toolkit? And so the

825
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:55,280
Speaker 1: first line of his essay says, the sophisticated scientific concept

826
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:58,239
Speaker 1: with the greatest potential to enhance human understanding may come

827
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 1: not from academy, but rather from the unlikely environment of

828
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,720
Speaker 1: professional wrestling. So this is what you were just touched

829
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 1: on right there, because he's saying that this ca faving

830
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:13,400
Speaker 1: is existing h at every level of our society, is

831
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:18,279
Speaker 1: really pervading our cultural fabric Yeah. In his words, K

832
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:23,880
Speaker 1: fabrication is the process of transition from reality toward K

833
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 1: fab and it arises out of attempts to deliver at

834
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 1: appendably engageable product for a mass audience while we're moving

835
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 1: the unpredictable upheavals then impair all the participants. Um So

836
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 1: again he's he's going back to what we've been discussing

837
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:44,399
Speaker 1: how traditional folk wrestling that is quote unquote real transitions

838
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 1: into pro wrestling, which is quote unquote fake. And again

839
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:51,279
Speaker 1: not to get into the whole quadmire of fake, we've

840
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,759
Speaker 1: already discussed that, but just in the idea of how

841
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 1: does reality become fiction and and and that process that

842
00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:00,399
Speaker 1: that K fabrication that exists in between that what he's

843
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:02,719
Speaker 1: talking about. He's saying that it's a feature of our

844
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 1: most important systems such as war, finance, love, politics, and science.

845
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:12,839
Speaker 1: And um I was even thinking about Kfebe economics, Uh,

846
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 1: in particular the sub prime mortgage crisis, because this was

847
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:22,959
Speaker 1: basically passing off crap mortgage backed securities as investment grade

848
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:28,359
Speaker 1: commodities among this group of financial institutions. And it's an

849
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:31,840
Speaker 1: example of this collective insanity that can be formed around

850
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 1: incorrect assumptions that gain acceptance because there are sources of status. So,

851
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 1: in other words, the sub mortgage crisis that occurred was

852
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 1: all because everybody was sort of playing along with this

853
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:47,719
Speaker 1: sort of Kfebe ization of of economics. When it came

854
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:53,320
Speaker 1: to that the housing bubble and to these um really

855
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:56,920
Speaker 1: crappy mortgage backed securities, they were passing it off as

856
00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:59,880
Speaker 1: the real deal, right, because they wanted this This was

857
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:03,359
Speaker 1: system that we would only work if we could all

858
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:07,440
Speaker 1: buy into this illusion. Yeah, like you come down to this, Uh,

859
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:09,880
Speaker 1: this idea that you know, the pro wrestling is this

860
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 1: metaphor for that that exists for actual wrestling and for

861
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:16,919
Speaker 1: actual combat, and so you you can you can apply

862
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,840
Speaker 1: this model to for instance, journalism came up in Weinstein's

863
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 1: articles an example, and certainly I think too, I think

864
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 1: to science journalism since that's probably what I see the

865
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:30,839
Speaker 1: most of with my job, particularly space. Okay, so like

866
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:36,400
Speaker 1: you can compare space exploration two catch wrestling. Uh. Catch

867
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 1: wrestling was really long and at times kind of monotonous, uh,

868
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:45,040
Speaker 1: but but at heart there was something really compelling about it.

869
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 1: Likewise with space exploration. Space exploration is really important. I mean,

870
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 1: it's about who we are and where we stand in

871
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:53,279
Speaker 1: the cosmos. It's about the long term survival of the

872
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 1: human race and all of these these grand ideas. But

873
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 1: if you just take a look at a peer viewed

874
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:01,800
Speaker 1: article or just some like doing the hard scientific data

875
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 1: about something, it can it can come off a little boring.

876
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:07,359
Speaker 1: It's not it's not sexy, you know. And then so

877
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 1: the science journalists swooped in and they take the core

878
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:13,319
Speaker 1: of it what's important, but then you know, they sex

879
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:14,719
Speaker 1: it up a little bit. They maybe they add the

880
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:16,840
Speaker 1: instead of just being a black hole in the headline,

881
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 1: it's a cannibalistic black hole, or it's a monster black hole.

882
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 1: You start layering over a little fiction to dress it

883
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:26,360
Speaker 1: up and make it more presentable as a product. And

884
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 1: and ideally you have journalistic integrity keeping it from going

885
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 1: too far. But but but yeah, you see, KFE, we

886
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 1: want you to know what it is you see it

887
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:40,640
Speaker 1: everywhere well, and and he talked about it too in science,

888
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:43,279
Speaker 1: because if you have a certain agenda, then you would

889
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:49,280
Speaker 1: try to fit you know, certain data or elements to

890
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 1: create that fiction. Right. And so when I think about it,

891
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:53,320
Speaker 1: and I think about it in terms of science, I

892
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 1: think about erroneous studies that still have some sort of

893
00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:01,240
Speaker 1: weight outside of the science world. Really, and in particular,

894
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about Jenny McCarthy autism and um this false

895
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:10,880
Speaker 1: link between autism and vaccinations. Now, the study that she

896
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 1: cited and the doctor has been discredited over and over

897
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:17,960
Speaker 1: and over again, but yet there is this false reality

898
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:22,280
Speaker 1: that has been formed around this idea and it gained status.

899
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 1: And this is sort of a perfect example of k

900
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 1: fabrication in our lives where we don't, as you say,

901
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:30,520
Speaker 1: you don't really think about it that way. But when

902
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:34,920
Speaker 1: you look at these instances and economics, or in science,

903
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:37,760
Speaker 1: or in journalism in the way things that are reported,

904
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 1: you began to see that it really is a system

905
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:43,920
Speaker 1: that we are all sort of buying, not all of us,

906
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 1: but we tend to sort of buy into as a society. Um,

907
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:50,360
Speaker 1: So you sort of wonder, like where where if you

908
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 1: strip it all away, what are the truths? Because we're

909
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:56,400
Speaker 1: talking about is perception versus reality? Um, this idea that

910
00:48:56,520 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 1: perception is exalted above actual reality. Back to a quote

911
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 1: from Weinstein, he said, what makes KFE remarkable is that

912
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 1: it provides the most complete example of the process by

913
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:10,480
Speaker 1: which a wide class of important endeavors transition from failed

914
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:15,719
Speaker 1: reality to successful fakery. So, um, let's go back to

915
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:21,239
Speaker 1: Colt Cabana, the professional wrestler and professional podcaster. Uh does

916
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 1: the Art of Wrestling podcast? Go back to him with

917
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:25,800
Speaker 1: just a few more questions about the nature of cafe.

918
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:28,880
Speaker 1: So do you see kfebe at work in the world

919
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:31,920
Speaker 1: around you? Yes? And you know these are my own,

920
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 1: I guess thoughts. But it's because I've been engulfed in

921
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:39,759
Speaker 1: the wrestling world and I've seen I guess the art

922
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 1: of trickery really is. What I've been doing is I

923
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:46,719
Speaker 1: don't believe anything for anything, and that's why these are

924
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:50,120
Speaker 1: my own thoughts. Anyone can have, you know, life and subjective,

925
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 1: but I refuse to vote because I believe everybody is

926
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:56,920
Speaker 1: just corrupt and everyone's out for themselves and you know

927
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:00,279
Speaker 1: who who? Every we hear on the news so much

928
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 1: the just politics in general, everyone's taking money from this person,

929
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:08,240
Speaker 1: everyone's taking money from that person who's ever in charge

930
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:12,319
Speaker 1: because of wrestling and k FEB and the idea that

931
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:14,960
Speaker 1: you know, we're quote unquote working people all the time.

932
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:18,319
Speaker 1: That's how I kind of unfortunately look at life. But

933
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:21,800
Speaker 1: I feel that it's real. That's how life is, and

934
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:24,799
Speaker 1: uh it's I think that's sad and it's unfortunate. But

935
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 1: I think in every aspect, especially those higher power political aspects,

936
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 1: that's going on all the time so much to the

937
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:35,440
Speaker 1: point that it's so disappointing and it's it's taken me

938
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:37,120
Speaker 1: out of that world. I really want nothing to do

939
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:41,360
Speaker 1: with it because I believe that they are they're using

940
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:46,720
Speaker 1: that world of trickery or cafebe or disguising or masking

941
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:52,319
Speaker 1: and um yeah, uh, boxing, football, even the realist of

942
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:55,680
Speaker 1: real sports. This is going on because it's almost because

943
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 1: it's business and wrestling, right. Wrestling was very popular in

944
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:02,839
Speaker 1: the very early nineteen hundreds of late eighteen hundreds, and

945
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 1: the matches would go on for so long that some

946
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:08,880
Speaker 1: of these matches would be three, four or five hour matches,

947
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:14,720
Speaker 1: and the business people they said, our business is dying.

948
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 1: We need to change this business aspect, in this business model,

949
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:20,759
Speaker 1: and it all comes down, I guess that's the American way.

950
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:23,960
Speaker 1: It all comes down two dollars and cents. And they said,

951
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 1: here's how we need to fix, you know, we here's

952
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:29,440
Speaker 1: how we need to fix wrestling. Wrestling as we know

953
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:32,880
Speaker 1: it catches catch can uh, two guys go in and

954
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:35,760
Speaker 1: the better man will win. And it got so boring

955
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:37,880
Speaker 1: or it got so long that they were losing their

956
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:40,279
Speaker 1: audience that they changed it, and they fixed it so

957
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:42,879
Speaker 1: they could make more money. And that's the American way.

958
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:45,839
Speaker 1: And that's every job, and that's every aspect. How can

959
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:48,000
Speaker 1: we change this or how can we make so how

960
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 1: so we can make more money? How can we get

961
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:52,719
Speaker 1: the more most bang for our buck? How can we

962
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 1: make how can we make money? And that's in politics,

963
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:59,640
Speaker 1: that's in unions, that's in uh, you know, unfortunately, like

964
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:03,719
Speaker 1: you know police and fireplighteris and even the nicest of

965
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:06,800
Speaker 1: the nice I believe it all. It all happens because

966
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:09,840
Speaker 1: we're all driven by the almighty dollar, and especially I

967
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:11,920
Speaker 1: mean that's what wrestling is all about. Two is it's

968
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:13,759
Speaker 1: a business. Is how do you make money in this thing?

969
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:16,600
Speaker 1: So as a as a fan of pro wrestling, and uh,

970
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:20,319
Speaker 1: but ultimately as an outsider to pro wrestling, you hear

971
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:24,360
Speaker 1: stories about guys who buy into their own gimmick who

972
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 1: over time and ego gets involved, and you know, maybe

973
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:29,760
Speaker 1: they're portraying a monster in the ring and they start

974
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:33,920
Speaker 1: feeling like a monster outside the ring. Like I said,

975
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:36,680
Speaker 1: ego gets involved in things supposedly spin out of control.

976
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 1: But but does that ever, does that really happen? Does

977
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 1: the fantasy ever bleed into reality? Yeah? Uh, I would

978
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:47,400
Speaker 1: definitely say that people start buying their own hype, they

979
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:50,160
Speaker 1: start believing their own hype, They start believing to the

980
00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:54,359
Speaker 1: character that they are, and that is the idea that

981
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:57,800
Speaker 1: then they egos collide with egos and sometimes during a

982
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 1: wrestling match, two people have egos and they don't think

983
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 1: what should happen should happen, So they're gonna go and

984
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:06,120
Speaker 1: go into business for themselves and they're gonna change whatever

985
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 1: was supposed to happen. And that's when that great line

986
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 1: of professional wrestling becomes Is this a work or is

987
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:16,440
Speaker 1: this a shoot? You know? Is this real? Is cafe

988
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:19,759
Speaker 1: ave happening? Am I getting worked? What's going on? And

989
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:23,239
Speaker 1: that happens all the time. And that's what I think

990
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:27,600
Speaker 1: is like the new thing that's drawing people to wrestling

991
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 1: as opposed to the early, you know, nineteen thirties. This

992
00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 1: is the new era of what people seem to really enjoy.

993
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:38,200
Speaker 1: And not only is it in wrestling, but it's I

994
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:41,479
Speaker 1: think we've all seen it with reality television. What's real

995
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:44,040
Speaker 1: in this show? What's not real in this show? And

996
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:46,919
Speaker 1: now it's such a blurry line that no nobody really knows,

997
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:51,279
Speaker 1: especially you know, paranormal activity or uh whatever that other

998
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:55,040
Speaker 1: scary movie was. And people seem to really like, you know, uh,

999
00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:58,840
Speaker 1: that's the new culture that we're in. And it happens

1000
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 1: for sure in the wrestling ring, in the wrestling backgrounds.

1001
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:06,440
Speaker 1: You play this character, and again, once you get off set,

1002
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:10,040
Speaker 1: you know, you're if you're this is a movie, it's

1003
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:12,640
Speaker 1: not like you're ending this character. You have to be

1004
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:17,000
Speaker 1: a part of this character seven because it's your it's

1005
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:19,960
Speaker 1: your it's your living and when you when some people

1006
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 1: do that, they get caught up in it and it's

1007
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:27,799
Speaker 1: very unfortunate, but it can also make for interesting television

1008
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:30,960
Speaker 1: or interesting drama. Thanks for talking to us. Just to

1009
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 1: close out, give us a just a brief feel about

1010
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:36,439
Speaker 1: about your philosophy in the ring. What what does cult

1011
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:40,359
Speaker 1: Cabana bring to the product. A lot of people know

1012
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:43,319
Speaker 1: the world of professional wrestling is two mean men trying

1013
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:46,960
Speaker 1: to beat each other up, and I always trying to

1014
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:50,440
Speaker 1: take that aspect and change people's mind with it, because

1015
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:54,759
Speaker 1: wrestling is an exhibition where two people are going in

1016
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:57,120
Speaker 1: the ring and somebody's trying to win. I don't use

1017
00:54:57,200 --> 00:55:01,040
Speaker 1: anger or I don't use a Russian as my way

1018
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:03,160
Speaker 1: to win. I use humor as my way to win,

1019
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:06,000
Speaker 1: and I think that always makes for a real fun

1020
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 1: match and people seem to like it. And because I'm

1021
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:12,840
Speaker 1: a humorist inside the wrestling ring, my humor translates outside

1022
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:16,680
Speaker 1: the wrestling ring, so people really seem to support and

1023
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:20,440
Speaker 1: people really seem to relate and enjoy who I am

1024
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:23,239
Speaker 1: as a wrestling performer and other things that I do

1025
00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:25,839
Speaker 1: in terms of the way I tweet or the way

1026
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:30,240
Speaker 1: I podcast, or the way I have different comedic slash

1027
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:32,960
Speaker 1: wrestling ventures that I put out in the world. And

1028
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:34,960
Speaker 1: I think when you put that all together, that you

1029
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 1: know that makes the ultimate showman or the ultimate entertainer

1030
00:55:39,719 --> 00:55:41,440
Speaker 1: or what you have it. So I like the idea

1031
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:43,120
Speaker 1: that I've kind of crossed this line of not just

1032
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:47,040
Speaker 1: a wrestler, but uh, you know, an entertainer for everybody.

1033
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 1: So there you go. Thanks to Coult for taking the

1034
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:52,640
Speaker 1: time to chat with us, I think as we're recording

1035
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:54,960
Speaker 1: this season in Japan wrestling some matches, and again, if

1036
00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:56,640
Speaker 1: you want to check out his stuff, just go to

1037
00:55:56,920 --> 00:55:59,200
Speaker 1: uh we love Colt dot com. And just to close

1038
00:55:59,239 --> 00:56:01,840
Speaker 1: this out, I wanted to to bring up this question

1039
00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:04,000
Speaker 1: about whether or not this is something we can even

1040
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:08,720
Speaker 1: avoid because we've talked about how storytelling, fictionalizing, creating realities

1041
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:12,320
Speaker 1: for for ourselves is part and parcel of being human.

1042
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:16,080
Speaker 1: And it makes me think about those babies studies that

1043
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:20,120
Speaker 1: we keep coming across in various ways in our research. Um,

1044
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:23,279
Speaker 1: and I'm talking in particular about Karen Wynd, who's a

1045
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:28,879
Speaker 1: Yale psychologist who has looked at babies and morality, and um,

1046
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:31,920
Speaker 1: this is really interesting. Uh. I think we've probably mentioned

1047
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:35,880
Speaker 1: this before, but kids as young as three months old

1048
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:39,680
Speaker 1: can suss out these little puppet characters. Who is the

1049
00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 1: good good guide, Who is the bad guy or the

1050
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:47,120
Speaker 1: good gal or the bad bad gal? And uh, not

1051
00:56:47,239 --> 00:56:49,520
Speaker 1: only can they suss them out, they they sort of

1052
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 1: have a preference for the one that is the good guy,

1053
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:57,720
Speaker 1: usually the good puppet, but they also will uh try

1054
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:01,440
Speaker 1: to even the playing field when they can. In other words,

1055
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:03,520
Speaker 1: they will punish the bad guy when they can. And

1056
00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 1: I won't go into the particulars of how they do this,

1057
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:09,480
Speaker 1: but time and again, like three fourths of the babies

1058
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:12,920
Speaker 1: will be able to pick out the good puppet as

1059
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:18,080
Speaker 1: opposed to bad puppet, and many more will reward um

1060
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:21,320
Speaker 1: a puppet for punishing the other one. So again, here's

1061
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:26,200
Speaker 1: this very deeply ingrained idea that we have in our

1062
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:29,080
Speaker 1: brains about a sense of justice and injustice. In this

1063
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:32,520
Speaker 1: morality and in this sort of patent tray that always

1064
00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:34,240
Speaker 1: plays out in front of us, we can't help but

1065
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:38,439
Speaker 1: get our hooks into stories and be intrigued by them.

1066
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 1: So how can we help to uh you know, with

1067
00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:46,200
Speaker 1: that is sort of the base of our cognitive systems. Um,

1068
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:49,880
Speaker 1: how can we actually go about peeling back those illusory

1069
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:52,840
Speaker 1: layers to really see what's going on? Yeah? To it?

1070
00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:55,600
Speaker 1: To end on a quote from Roland Barts says that

1071
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:58,360
Speaker 1: in the ring, wrestlers remain gods because they are, for

1072
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:01,560
Speaker 1: a few moments, the key which open nature. The pure gesture,

1073
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:04,280
Speaker 1: which separates good from evil and unveils the form of

1074
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:09,080
Speaker 1: a justice which is at last intelligible. So we're gonna

1075
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:11,960
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk a little bit more about some related

1076
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:16,080
Speaker 1: issues to this, about um, what happens when, uh, when

1077
00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:21,040
Speaker 1: the self is layered in these these various elements of fiction. Uh.

1078
00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:23,400
Speaker 1: The episode is going to be called Undercover Actors in

1079
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:25,680
Speaker 1: the Shadow Self. It's gonna be the one that publishes

1080
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:28,120
Speaker 1: right after this one. So you're really into this topic,

1081
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:32,160
Speaker 1: check it out. We promise there's some some excellent content

1082
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:36,600
Speaker 1: in there. So um, let's put it putting wrestling aside. Now,

1083
00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:39,120
Speaker 1: let's ask the robot to come over here and bring

1084
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:44,440
Speaker 1: us some listener mail. All right, here's one from Critter

1085
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:46,680
Speaker 1: Jones on Facebook, and I just love the We have

1086
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:50,200
Speaker 1: a listener named Critter Jones. It just it lightens my day, Uh,

1087
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:53,080
Speaker 1: Critter says, you sweet sweet people have the best product

1088
00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:55,280
Speaker 1: on the air today. Thanks for pushing boundaries and breaking

1089
00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 1: mysterious walls. Uh, as always with your Labyrinth episode. I

1090
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:01,919
Speaker 1: don't know what I do without you guys. Please don't

1091
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:04,280
Speaker 1: make me find out. Love and infinite rockets to both

1092
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:06,960
Speaker 1: of you, sweet cats, please please keep on keeping on.

1093
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:11,920
Speaker 1: Thank you. We also heard from Kristen. Kristen said, hey, guys,

1094
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:14,640
Speaker 1: just listen to the maze episode. Another little quirk of

1095
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:18,160
Speaker 1: the maze in Harry Potter was that the hedges also moved,

1096
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:20,400
Speaker 1: so you couldn't really go back the way you came,

1097
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:22,880
Speaker 1: and you'd also have to hurry and pick a direction

1098
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 1: before the hedges took you out. Great podcast, guys. And finally,

1099
00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:29,480
Speaker 1: Paul wrote to us on Facebook as well and said,

1100
00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:32,480
Speaker 1: regarding the call for video game mazes, the worlds of

1101
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:36,040
Speaker 1: the Metroid series come immediately to mind. Many times you

1102
00:59:36,080 --> 00:59:39,200
Speaker 1: can clearly see the path ahead or shiny upgrade, but

1103
00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:42,440
Speaker 1: lack the necessary equipment, which you obtain much later in

1104
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:45,080
Speaker 1: the game, often long after you have forgotten where you

1105
00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:48,600
Speaker 1: found the blocks path. So so there you go. Thanks

1106
00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:50,760
Speaker 1: guys for writing in. If any of the rest of

1107
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:54,880
Speaker 1: you would like to um chat with us about mazes,

1108
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:58,240
Speaker 1: about labyrinths, about pro wrestling, uh, if you yourself are

1109
00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:00,720
Speaker 1: a pro wrestling fan or or a pro wrestler and

1110
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:02,120
Speaker 1: you have thoughts on some of the content that we've

1111
01:00:02,120 --> 01:00:04,960
Speaker 1: discussed here right in. Also if you're an outsider, if

1112
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:09,000
Speaker 1: you're your husband or or other significant other is is

1113
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:11,160
Speaker 1: into wrestling and you're kind of like viewing it from

1114
01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 1: the outside and you have some thoughts about it, and

1115
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:14,880
Speaker 1: maybe those thoughts have changed a little after listening to

1116
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:17,360
Speaker 1: this podcast. Let us know. You can find us on

1117
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:19,800
Speaker 1: Facebook and you can find us on tumbler. We are

1118
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:21,480
Speaker 1: stuff to blow your mind on both of those and

1119
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:24,360
Speaker 1: we have a Twitter feed, uh that is blow the

1120
01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:26,600
Speaker 1: mind one word, and you can always drop us a

1121
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:36,040
Speaker 1: line at blow the Mind at Discovery dot com for

1122
01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:38,480
Speaker 1: more on this and thousands of other topics. Is it

1123
01:00:38,560 --> 01:00:44,360
Speaker 1: how Stuff Works dot com