WEBVTT - Holly George-Warren 0:00:08.800 --> 0:00:12.520 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:16.239 My guest today is Holly George Morn. He's got a 0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:20.520 new book about Janice Joplin entitled Janice Joplin for Life 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:23.360 in Music. Holly, good to have you here. Thanks for 0:00:23.360 --> 0:00:26.080 having me on your show, Bob. Okay, why a book 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:30.120 about Janice Joplin? Why? Now you know, Bob, I have been, 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:32.440 of course a fan like every one of Janice's voice, 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:34.839 going back to my teen years back in the Setona, 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:36.920 I have to ask, since you brought that up, were 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:40.280 you alive and conscious when Janice had her success? Yes, 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:43.120 um the end of her career. I got to see her, 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:45.680 you know, on TV from my little hometown of North 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:48.599 Carolina on the Dick Cabot Show. And of course, one 0:00:48.600 --> 0:00:51.080 of my first albums when I joined the Columbia House 0:00:51.200 --> 0:00:54.880 Record Club twelve albums for a penny, was Pearl, so 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:58.040 I still have my original copy. How did you feel 0:00:58.600 --> 0:01:00.800 after getting the twelve albums free and then having to 0:01:00.840 --> 0:01:03.600 pay list price for the ensuing records. I did a 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:06.120 lot of babysitting in those days, and since I lived 0:01:06.120 --> 0:01:08.360 in a tiny town with not a lot of access 0:01:08.480 --> 0:01:11.600 to records, hey, I was cool with it. Okay, we're 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:14.520 in North Carolina. It's a little town called Ashborough, not 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:17.000 to be confused with Ashville, which everyone's heard of, the 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:19.920 cool hipster town. But Ashboro was right smack dab in 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:23.880 the center of the state, near Nascar Richard Petty Territory 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:25.640 for any of this. Okay, So for those of us 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:29.440 who were ignorant city people, what's the closest town we 0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:32.559 would know of? Greensboro were the first sit ins took 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:35.480 place at? So how far from Greensboro were you? Like 0:01:35.520 --> 0:01:39.200 twenty miles and okay, let's get back to it. Okay, 0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:41.800 so you bought Barol, you still have it? Yes, I 0:01:42.080 --> 0:01:44.600 have my copy too. And that was you know, I 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:47.320 was a huge record fan already because when I was 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:50.120 in third grade, Bob, I discovered on my little clock 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:53.440 radio that I could tune into w ABC in New 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:55.840 York and w l S and Chicago. And this was 0:01:55.880 --> 0:02:01.360 the golden age of channels. That's why was ultimately and 0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:03.760 in my town, I think that there are one radio 0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:07.360 station which mostly played country and gospel, which, of course, 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:09.520 you know, being a rock and roll kid, I hated 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:13.080 it went off the air, you know, So I discovered 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:17.320 this radio from far away that played this incredible mix 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:20.680 of music because am just was amazing. In the mid sixties, 0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:23.200 I became so obsessed. I would not go to sleep 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:27.680 at night without listening to my radio. And that's the 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:31.160 transistor under the pillow. Well, you know, I don't remember 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:34.320 having it. It was the baby blue pastel you know, 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:37.840 clock radio. My parents kind of just said whatever, you know, 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:40.440 they didn't really care. And I started buying forty fives 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:43.440 like crazy with my babysitting money. And so this was 0:02:43.480 --> 0:02:45.679 again I was third grade and I started my first 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:49.120 little group. Then, so I became obsessed. Well I want 0:02:49.120 --> 0:02:51.200 to go deeper into this, Let's first get into the book. 0:02:51.280 --> 0:02:53.359 So well, I can't as drop in. Why not? Well, 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:56.760 because I discovered when I was asked to write liner 0:02:56.800 --> 0:02:59.800 notes for the Pearl Sessions, which was a two CD 0:02:59.880 --> 0:03:02.600 set in which they went and pulled out all these 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:06.080 tapes from the vaults at Columbia and at least they 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:09.200 were still there as opposed to universal tape. Yes, thank god. Right, 0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:13.120 And so you could hear Janice and Paul Rothschild, the 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:17.480 producer of Pearl Talking Shop. Janice was leading the conversation 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:21.800 coming up with guitar parts, arrangement ideas, you know, like 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:25.200 literally calling the shots. And I knew from work I'd 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:28.000 done on the Doors and interviewed Bruce Botnick, the Great 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:33.080 Engineer and other people, that Paul Rothschild was famously iron 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:36.280 fisted producer, and in fact, Joni Mitchell did not like 0:03:36.400 --> 0:03:40.400 working with him because he was so bossy. And actually 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:43.360 Paul Rothschild a little bit. I wish I could have 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:46.360 met him. He seems like a cool guy. And you know, 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:48.640 when I have to remember that, of course he cut 0:03:48.640 --> 0:03:53.080 all those early Electra records, but he was the son 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:55.280 of an opera singer. Did you know that? If I 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:57.800 knew what I forgot it? I didn't know that, but 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:00.480 um luckily I got some interviews with him from some 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:04.320 journalist friends who did interview him before he passed away. 0:04:04.360 --> 0:04:07.440 So I suddenly realized that, you know, this persona this 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:10.760 image that jan has created, which was so indelible and 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:13.720 so vivid, wasn't all there was to the story of 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:16.280 Janis Joplin. You know, she kind of had this image 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:19.800 of being this blues mama. I'm just all about the field, baby, 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:23.520 you know, and you know that whole technique versus field idea, 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:25.560 and I started thinking, you know what, I think there's 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:31.159 more to this woman's music. Music musicianship then meets the eye. 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:33.680 So I then started thinking, and wait a minute. She 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:39.080 was growing up Port Arthur, Texas, very conservative, segregated town, 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:43.160 oil town in the fifties. How did she even get 0:04:43.240 --> 0:04:46.640 access to records by Lead Belly and seventy Eights by 0:04:46.680 --> 0:04:49.359 Bessie Smith. It must have taken a lot of effort 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:51.320 on her part because I had read some of the 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:54.800 other books about her, so I really was obsessed with 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:59.640 tracing her musical journey and finding out how she got 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:03.320 um Port Arthur, Texas to queen of the counterculture and 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:05.719 then this big star with pearls. Okay, I want to 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:08.440 hear that, But let's go back to the tapes. What 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:12.760 did you hear on the tapes? Well, again, with Paul's 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:17.400 reputation of being a very um yeah, exactly, he was 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:20.440 listening to Janice, he was like, wow, that's a great idea, 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:25.320 you know, and he apparently inspired her to pursue being 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:29.160 a producer. In fact, she told John Cook, her late 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:31.560 road manager, who think goodness, I got to meet and 0:05:31.800 --> 0:05:35.400 interview that um Janice would make a great producer, and 0:05:35.520 --> 0:05:38.480 Janice was so excited about this idea. She was a 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:41.840 studio rat. I mean she wrote home letters as far 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:44.080 back as the nineteen six six, the first time she 0:05:44.120 --> 0:05:47.200 went into the studio in Chicago for the first record 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:50.000 Big Brother in the Holding Company did for mainstream records. 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:54.400 She wrote home detelling the studio recording process, talking about 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:57.880 double tracking her vocals and explaining what that was, the 0:05:57.920 --> 0:06:00.400 same kind of thing when they got signed to Lumbian 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:03.560 did Cheap Thrills. She was very, very involved in the 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:08.400 recording process. Again, letters home describing what mixing was for example, 0:06:08.920 --> 0:06:13.440 and yeah, and Fred Catero, the great engineer, and have 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:15.760 talked about she was the first one there and the 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:18.479 last to leave. She was really really involved in that 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:22.200 whole process. So there was that aspect of her that 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:26.119 I think no one really realized that she was this studious, 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:29.520 hard working musician that was perfecting her craft and wanting 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:32.839 to learn every aspect of music. Not just that amazing 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:37.480 voice of her. What was her personality like? Again, she 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:41.560 was very multifaceted. You know, we have the Janus image 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:46.000 of her, you know, out on stage and just so intense, 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:49.400 so impassion this music coming from deep within of her, 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:54.560 expressing all this pain and all this um torment, you know, 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:57.760 through her vocals and really reaching and touching her audiences. 0:06:57.800 --> 0:07:00.479 I wish I could have seen her live, because to 0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:03.400 this day I talked to people who saw her nineteen 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:06.400 sixty six and they go into this reverie, describing it 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:08.560 as if it was last week. I mean, her impact 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:11.920 was that powerful. But the other side of Janice, which 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:14.600 she kept on the down low from her fans, was 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:18.320 this very intellectual, studious woman who always had a book 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:20.760 with her. She was a total book worm, love to read. 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:24.920 And she also, you know, had her own fears and 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:29.480 her own um shyness that again she kept tamped down 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:33.000 through her whole stage bravado and all that kind of thing. 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:35.440 Let's go to the end. Do you think her death 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:39.280 was inevitable for a pure accident, pure accident bomb, I mean, 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:42.880 it's it's kind of what happened when we tragically lost Tom, 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:45.600 Petty and Prince. The whole it's similar to that whole 0:07:45.600 --> 0:07:50.000 fentinyl thing. Because she had had an addiction to heroin 0:07:50.080 --> 0:07:53.480 in nineteen sixty nine, um, but she had gotten clean 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:56.320 in nineteen seventy she'd been off it for maybe four 0:07:56.400 --> 0:07:59.840 or five months, she still was a heavy drinker and 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:03.800 the drinking is much worse on the voice than smack, 0:08:04.240 --> 0:08:06.960 and she was trying to cut back on the drinking 0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:09.800 while making Pearl because she knew that Paul wath Child 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:13.200 would not tolerate her voice not being there and it 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:16.600 can really script your voice too much. Booz. So she 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:20.080 happened to run into her dealer from before in l 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:25.640 A at the Landmark Hotel where she always stayed and relapsed. Um. 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:30.160 Now what happened that killed her was she, by weird chance, 0:08:30.200 --> 0:08:33.400 got this really strong heroine that had just been introduced 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:36.920 to this country called China White, and it was really 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:40.640 pure compared to her usual and she was by herself 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:45.840 overdosed and it was a tragic accidym Okay, So how 0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:50.239 did you actually decide to do the book? Well? Fortunately, 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:54.320 over the years through different um things like there's been 0:08:54.320 --> 0:08:58.080 a couple of Janice uh conferences believe it or not? 0:08:58.120 --> 0:08:59.720 At the road Yeah, at the Rock and Wall Hall 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:05.359 of Fame in Cleveland, wannabes or scholars yeah, well not scholars, 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:08.600 but the people that were there. So in the nineties 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:10.480 there was one and another one in the outs, and 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:15.480 I got to participate as a panelist talking about Janiss legacy, etcetera. 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:18.120 But really I was a student. I got to meet 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:22.560 her brother and sister who, um, we really hit it off. 0:09:22.600 --> 0:09:24.800 I also got to meet Sam Andrew was still alive 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:28.280 for guitarists from Big Brother chet Helm's The Guy who 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:31.640 Family Don't started the avalon who really is the guy 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:34.120 that got Janis? At San Francisco not once, but twice 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:38.000 in sixty three and again in sixty six. Jerry Ragavoy, 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:40.640 who was her favorite songwriter that wrote a lot of 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:43.400 her great hits, was there. So I was learning more 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:46.600 and more about her and just became, you know, fascinated. 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:53.800 But so, when did you hear the unreleased tapes that 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:57.880 was in around I think it was around twenty twelve 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:02.160 something like that. Already been going to these conferences, Yes, 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:04.880 I had just been, you know, a student, because I'm 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:08.240 you know, I'm a general. Are you are you a 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:11.040 student of other things? You're going to other conferences? Yes, 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:15.559 I love I'm a conference junkie. Well, it used to 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:18.240 be called the e MP conference. Now it's called MoPOP 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:21.079 in Seattle, which has been going since two thousand two. 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:23.120 That's a great one. I try to go to that 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:26.880 every year. So what what have you learned there? Oh? Gosh, 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:29.600 what have I not learned? Because it goes all through 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:33.320 like every genre going back to I've learned about artists 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:35.920 that I like Eva Tingay. I think her name is 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:37.880 who is this? Do you know her name? I know 0:10:37.920 --> 0:10:40.400 the name? The music? Yeah, just people go down the 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:43.280 rabbit hole at these conferences. And each year there's a theme, 0:10:43.440 --> 0:10:47.199 so it'll be everything from you know, drag. Last year 0:10:47.200 --> 0:10:51.959 it was death so perfect for Janas. How many people go? Um? Gosh, 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:55.280 you know, it lasts about four days and there's lots 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:57.280 and lots of you should go. Bobby would love it. 0:10:57.520 --> 0:11:00.880 UM and it's people and it's not just academics. It's 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:06.000 UM fans, fancy and writers, musicians, the great John Langford, 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:09.200 the me cons and the Wakeer Brothers has been part 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:12.560 of it. Um they have. They've had Janelle Mone, they 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:15.400 had Solomon Burke. They'll have a keynote a lot of times, 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:19.000 a musician, Um the tune smith woman I'm blanking on 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:21.480 her or anyway, how many of these do you go 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:24.120 to in a year? Um? See, I go to that 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:27.400 when I go to the Americana Conference in Nashville. I 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:29.640 used to go to south By Southwest every year and 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:32.319 always do panels for that, and that was really fun. 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:37.400 And again I saw amazing like Harold Bradley and Holly Yeah, 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:40.560 it's just kind of it's too big now. Um, so 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:43.720 American is kind of stepping up to the plate now. 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:46.720 And so you can actually see like Tanya Tucker, you know, 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:50.200 talk Okay, So you're going to these panels, you hear 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:52.600 the tapes, you write the liner notes, when do you 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:54.920 decide you want to write a book? Well, I was 0:11:55.040 --> 0:12:01.000 able to talk to the siblings who control Anas. We 0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:02.839 were talking just because you're interested or in the back 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:05.160 of your mind to do something with this, I know, 0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:09.680 totally not thinking of doing something. But my literary agent, 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:13.440 who was a wonderful person who actually has been She 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:17.920 worked at Rolling Stone going back to the what's her name? 0:12:18.040 --> 0:12:21.160 Her name is Sarah Lason and she reps lots of 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:25.640 rock writers, been functorus and you know Robert christcal and 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:28.400 how did you get hooked up with her? Well, because 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:30.680 one of my first jobs when I first moved to 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:34.360 New York City, and besides waiting tables after graduating college 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:37.360 with my policy English double major. Was I got a 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:40.480 job as a fact checker at Rolling Stone Press. Well, 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:42.440 you know, they wish they still had that. Of course, 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:44.760 is the books, not the magazine that they had a 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:47.920 fact director would help their image. Yeah, definitely. So my 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:49.880 first job, Bob, I think it was like five bucks 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:52.680 an hour. It was fact checking the Rolling Stone Encyclopedia 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:54.920 of Rock and Roll, which of course I owned, Yes, 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:58.679 And I got to meet all these guys pretty much. 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:00.520 They're all guys who I had read as a kid 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:03.280 reading Rolling Stone, like you know, Dave marsh and different people. 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:05.920 And then my job was like calling up question Mark 0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:08.600 of question Mark and the Mysterious and saying, is it 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:11.480 true that you know you're really from Mars? And did 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:15.160 did you know whatever? Davidout him in the sycopo. I 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:17.520 have to ask, how did you get the job? Was 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:19.640 it that easy? Just you know, you have to know 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:22.760 somebody because I am a rock and roll geek, Bob, 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:26.880 and I obsessively always read rock and roll books. A 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:29.920 friend of mine who I met at American Baby Magazine, 0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:32.200 where I also had a job, and you know, of 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:34.079 course I was a long way from having kids or 0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:37.280 anything like that. But um she went to work for 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:40.320 Rolling Stone and was Sarah Layson's assistant. Sarah was the 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:43.240 director of the book division, and she knew I was 0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:45.360 this rock and roll geek. They needed a fact checker. 0:13:45.960 --> 0:13:47.960 I got to go in for the interview, and this 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:51.320 wonderful woman, Patti Romanowski, who has written. She went on 0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:54.400 to write a lot of co authorships with um Otis 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:57.080 Williams of The Temptations, which now they've made that book 0:13:57.080 --> 0:13:59.800 into the Broadway musical. She did dream Girls, and Mary 0:13:59.920 --> 0:14:03.000 was anyway, she was the person hiring and we just 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:05.559 started talking about our favorite rock and roll books and 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:07.400 I was just geeking out with her. She's like, you 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:11.440 got the job, so perfect work for you. Let's stop 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:14.160 there for a second, especially in the Me Too era 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:19.520 and a second wave of feminism, shall we say, who 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:23.520 are the unsung women writers in music who need to 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:27.400 get more attention? Ellen Sander number, of course I love 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:31.760 her writing and for the Yeah, and well that's Ellen 0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:35.720 Willis right, right, right, I hear from Ellen sand Yeah. 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:38.040 Ellen died a few years ago, and she she was 0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:44.080 definitely the most intellectual, culturally anthropological, anthropological kind of rock 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:46.880 critic who I mean she was amazing, and of course 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:51.160 reading her on Janice, her reviews of Janis at the 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:53.080 Film or East and the New York Are are just 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:55.080 mind blowing. But my last book, you know, was on 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:59.840 Alex Chilton. She was a big box tops fans, Kay Sander. 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:02.320 She lives in May, Yeah, yeah, she lived in Her 0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:05.560 book Trips was amazing, which is a collection. I think 0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:08.520 she wrote for different magazines and she went on the 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:11.920 road with different bands. Um. And she actually reviewed a 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:14.880 lot of Janice concerts in New York back in the day. 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:18.600 And Woodstock of course. Um, her writing on Woodstock is great. 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:22.200 So both of those two jan you Helski, who was 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:27.040 that Cream magazine? Um, who was an incredible writer. And 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:30.160 I think she's actually working on a dock now about Cream, 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:36.600 but I think she was there in the late sixties. Yeah, definitely. 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:39.200 So those are three right there. And are these people 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:42.120 you have regular contact with? Is there a fraternity or 0:15:42.120 --> 0:15:45.240 shall I say a sorority of women music writers? Well, 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:48.160 those women I kind of put on a pedestal, so 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:52.920 I'm like a gushy fangirl um around them. But um, 0:15:52.960 --> 0:15:56.640 as far as other women go, it's, you know, there 0:15:56.720 --> 0:15:59.040 is kind of I would say, for the most part, 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:03.080 it is a very cool, supportive group of women. There's 0:16:03.080 --> 0:16:05.440 a great book called Women Who Rock, edited by Evelyn 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:09.000 mcde mc nodal, who is out here in California, and 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:11.560 Evelyn got a lot of different women writers to do 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:15.880 essays on different women artists, again across the genre spectrum. 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:18.840 I wrote a piece on Patsy Klein, for example. Then 0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:21.560 she got all women illustrators to do portraits of the 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:25.000 subjects and that book came out last year. And Evelyn, 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:29.200 who teaches also out here, was really careful to include 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:31.520 a lot of new, up and coming young women writers 0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:34.560 as well as us. You know, heggs have been out 0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:38.480 there doing it forever. So so it's it's great to 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:40.760 get to meet all these different women writers who had 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:43.920 this passion for rock and roll. Okay, so you have 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:45.680 the agent and you were telling a story of how 0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:48.840 this book came to be. Yes, so my agent Sarah 0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:51.960 Lays and new Laura Joplin and actually was her agent 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:54.840 when she did a book that was basically a memoir 0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:58.520 with um referencing lots of letters at Janice wrote home 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:01.520 and so she intruduce us to us, and she kind 0:17:01.520 --> 0:17:05.600 of paved the way for me to get to know uh, 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:08.080 you know, Laura and Michael Joplin and then also Jeff 0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:12.480 jam Paul you probably know of course who represents yes exactly. 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:16.359 And so we all hit it off and they but 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:19.440 your agent was basically pitching a book. Well she was 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:22.560 kind of interfacing. I mean this, Bob, this took like 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:28.119 many years. The first conversation I think was long before 0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:30.119 I started working on the Alex Chilton book, which was 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:33.359 in so I would say in like the late audits, 0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:36.160 like around two thousand eight or so, essentially ten years. Yeah, 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:40.560 So it was just conversations. This. How long after your 0:17:40.600 --> 0:17:44.200 agents started looking you up with these people, did you 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:48.239 actually have a go or get a deal? Probably? You know, 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:53.320 like gosh, I would say, um, you know, like about 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:56.359 six years or something. And this was us conversing back 0:17:56.359 --> 0:17:59.479 and forth deciding how could we do this? Uh. I 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:02.159 gave them other books. I My first biography was of 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:06.720 Gene Autry, the Great Singing Cowboy, who also his widow 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:10.159 Jackie Autrey, had opened up her vaults and files and 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:12.800 all of his personal archives to me. Again, I will 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:15.000 only do a book like this if I have complete 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:19.639 editorial control over what I'm doing so the estate or 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:23.720 the airs have to realize that they I would love 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:27.720 for them to share all this incredible information with me. 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:30.600 It's in these archives, but I can't give them any 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:32.560 kind of control ever what I write, and you end 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:36.000 up getting into battles. Uh No, not really. I mean 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:40.399 I think they trust me and they know that I am, like, 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:44.720 I really, really dedicated to try to tell the story 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:47.880 as accurately as possible, and to try to make it 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:51.040 you know, all the different facets of someone. So have 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:53.399 you ever written a book and then have the person 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:56.959 argue with you or be disenchanted because you've got something 0:18:57.000 --> 0:18:59.920 wrong or you had an opinion they're not comfortable with. Well, 0:19:00.240 --> 0:19:04.080 not the actual people who um, I mean, some of 0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:08.000 them disagree with the conclusions I draw. For example, Jackie Autrey, 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:11.639 she still believes that Geane Autrey met Will Rogers in 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:14.240 a telegraph office and he said, son, you should be 0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:17.000 doing more than just running this, you know, telegraph for 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:19.560 the railroad. You should be a Hollywood star or whatever, 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:22.160 which I did tons of geeky research and found out 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:25.280 that that could not have taken place because when Will 0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:28.720 Rogers died, etcetera. And so I have to depose this 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:31.920 incredible myth like the John Ford don't you know, don't 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:33.840 you know print the legend, you know, kind of thing 0:19:34.560 --> 0:19:37.040 that didn't really happen. And she, you know, because I 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:40.239 think Jeane Autrey for himself, actually began to believe the 0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:42.680 story that a press agent created that he was discovered 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:45.399 by Will Rogers, when in reality, the press agent created 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:49.399 that totally. Okay, So she disagreed with that, but we 0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:53.600 agreed to disagree. Okay. So this book, unlike a lot 0:19:53.640 --> 0:19:56.600 of music books, is with one of the biggest publishers 0:19:56.600 --> 0:19:58.560 in the nation, that Simon and Schuster. How did that 0:19:58.600 --> 0:20:03.159 come together? I just really lucked out. UM. The guy 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:06.520 who was the head of UM. I guess Simon and 0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:10.080 Schuster is a guy who I worked with a long 0:20:10.119 --> 0:20:12.280 time ago when I was doing books at Rolling Stone 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:14.440 because I ended up going back to Rolling Stone after 0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:17.280 being a fact checker. I ended up going back there 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:20.800 in the early nineties and re igniting the book division again. 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:24.800 So I worked with him on some of this person's 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:29.199 his name, Okay, you know, we're we're, we're, you know, 0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:34.160 having a senior moment. But then my editor, Priscilla Painton, 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:39.040 who is this wonderful editor at Simon and Schuster. She's 0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:41.320 the one that I went and met with. She really 0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:45.720 got it, and she was not a typical music book editor. 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:48.400 She does a lot of their political books, a lot 0:20:48.440 --> 0:20:50.560 of their you know, big So you make the deal 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:53.760 Simon and Schuster, as they say, Simon Schuster, Random House, 0:20:53.800 --> 0:20:56.919 these are like the biggest companies. Is the deal lucrative? 0:20:57.960 --> 0:21:01.720 Uh well, let's just put it this way. Janice was 0:21:01.880 --> 0:21:05.960 much more lucrative than Salally Jeane Autrey was. And this 0:21:05.960 --> 0:21:10.720 way you're writing writing a book on Janice Joplin. Theoretically, 0:21:11.040 --> 0:21:13.199 with the advance, could you live a year and do 0:21:13.359 --> 0:21:16.800 nothing else? Uh? Not if you have a son that's 0:21:16.800 --> 0:21:20.080 in college. Okay, Okay, we got my general idea. Okay, 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:22.520 so the book is like I teach also and I 0:21:22.680 --> 0:21:28.160 still write. You know, let's stay with Janice for a second. Okay. 0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:31.800 So there's been a number of books about Janice. I 0:21:31.840 --> 0:21:35.840 remember in seventy four vividly remember reading this book in Jackson, 0:21:35.880 --> 0:21:39.600 Wyoming and a diner, the Myra Friedman book. Yes, I 0:21:39.640 --> 0:21:43.280 read that book of any good you know, I totally 0:21:43.640 --> 0:21:46.520 bought that book lock Stock and Barrel. It really formed 0:21:46.520 --> 0:21:49.159 my opinion of Janice, which is part of the reason 0:21:49.240 --> 0:21:52.960 why I wanted to do my book because now in retrospect, 0:21:53.080 --> 0:21:56.240 looking back, I realized Mayra Friedman, who was her publicist, 0:21:56.359 --> 0:21:59.600 worked for Albert Grossman, her manager, and truly loved Janice. 0:22:00.320 --> 0:22:03.359 You know, we're old enough now, Bob, that we've lost people, 0:22:03.359 --> 0:22:05.280 and we know the effect that has on you when 0:22:05.320 --> 0:22:08.080 you lose someone, especially at tragic death like Janice is 0:22:08.400 --> 0:22:12.400 you're angry at that person. And now, looking back, I 0:22:12.440 --> 0:22:16.199 think that the portrait, my opinion, was very inaccurate. She 0:22:16.840 --> 0:22:22.440