1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,200 Speaker 1: P I Magazine is the most respected magazine of the 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:08,240 Speaker 1: professional investigator, featuring stories and articles on current topics, equipment reviews, 3 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: investigative tips, and practical advice for the professional investigator. Don't 4 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 1: miss a single issue of PI Magazine. Subscribe today at 5 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 1: PI magazine dot com. Use this show's promotional code for 6 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: your special discount at p I magazine dot com. Subscribe 7 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:26,799 Speaker 1: today use promo code Nancy for your special discount. That's 8 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 1: promo code Nancy. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius 9 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: XM Triumph Channel one thirty two and started out the 10 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: typical Friday night. We drove to a hundred fifty nine street, 11 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 1: thirty second Avenue. Hey see, we started making out and 12 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: like two minutes later, the car exploded. All the you know, 13 00:00:54,960 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: the windows blue out of the car. Son of Am. 14 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 1: Three words that strike fear and the hearts of everybody 15 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 1: that's read a newspaper or gone on the internet in 16 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:10,399 Speaker 1: the last twenty years. You know, to be living in 17 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 1: a cave or under a rock not to know of 18 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:17,960 Speaker 1: the brutal rain of Son of Sam also known as 19 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: David Berkowitz, a prolific killer. Son of Sam, also known 20 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 1: as the forty four caliber killer, a serial killer that 21 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 1: we know is guilty of eight separate shooting attacks. It 22 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 1: all started in the summer of ninety six, when the 23 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: crimes were perpetrated with a bulldog revolver, killing six people, 24 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: wounding nine others, the victims increasing, the body bags piling up, 25 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 1: and the son of Sam eludes the biggest police man 26 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: hunt in the history of the city. He even went 27 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: so far as to leave letters mocking police and promising 28 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 1: more murders. But now, even after a guilty play on 29 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 1: multiple charges, is the Son of Sam, one of the 30 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 1: most prolific serial killers in US history, set to walk 31 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: free with a parole hearing I Nancy Grays, this is 32 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 1: crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. First of all, 33 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 1: I want you to hear in his own words, the 34 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: son of Sam, in a CBS interview talking about his childhood, 35 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,959 Speaker 1: boo who And I was about four or five, I 36 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:40,800 Speaker 1: learned that I was adopted, and of course I had 37 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: a lot of questions. You know my dad and mom, 38 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: you know well meaning told me that my mother died 39 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 1: while while giving birth to me. I think now looking 40 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 1: back in retrospect, it caused a lot of guilt and 41 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 1: conflict within me. No, I didn't understand what what what 42 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: drove me to be so like self destructive and destructive 43 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: to always have thoughts of suicide. I was obsessed with 44 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 1: with dying because I felt that I needed to be 45 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 1: punished for somehow causing my mother's My mother's death, My 46 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 1: parents were were a lot of pain and anguish. They 47 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 1: tried as best as I could they could. You know, 48 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: there were times when I seen my parents break down 49 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: in tears because they saw that was just so so 50 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 1: out of it sometimes such a such a problem. And 51 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 1: you know, I was just a kid. But at school 52 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 1: I got into a lot of trouble, uh it, fights 53 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 1: and just disrupt being disruptive in the classroom. My mom 54 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: had to go there so many times because I was 55 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: in trouble one way or at the other, and the 56 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: school officials told her that he really needed to take 57 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: your your child to a child psychologist. So they made 58 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: arrangements for me to see a child psychologists, which went 59 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 1: on for two years and I would sit there for 60 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: an hour and deal with her, which I hated. It 61 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: was torture. Hold on is to moment here We've got 62 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: Troyce Layton with me high profile l a defense attorney 63 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: Karen Start, renowned psychologists jointing me out of New York, 64 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: and private investigator, former cop Vincent Hill. Troyce Layton, there's 65 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: son of Sam and his own words, and I can 66 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 1: only hope the parole board members here that because he 67 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 1: is trying to make me feel sorry for him regarding 68 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 1: the death of his mom, and I do feel bad 69 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: about that. But he goes on to detail how he's 70 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: been a problem, causing trouble ever since he was a 71 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: kid in school. All right, that that's not helping Troyce Layton. 72 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 1: He's being honest and truthful with the parole board. Nancy. Now, look, 73 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:44,039 Speaker 1: if we believe in the rule of law, then we 74 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: have to respect the court's decision, which was to not 75 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: give him life without the possibility of parole. But he 76 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: was granted the possibility of parole. So the system is 77 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,279 Speaker 1: working and he's getting the chance to go before the 78 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: parole board. Be honest, tell them where he is. He's 79 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: been in jail, in prison for over thirty years, and 80 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: it's time to show that he has potentially been rehabilitated. 81 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: Rehabilitated you know, um the body count and all of 82 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 1: the other shootings for people were injured. I'm not even 83 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:29,040 Speaker 1: remotely convinced this guy has rehabilitated himself. Karen Start, New 84 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: York psychologist, renowned mental health care worker. Karen, what did 85 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,839 Speaker 1: you tell me? He has now renamed himself. He's no 86 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: longer calling himself the Sun of Sand. He's calling himself 87 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 1: the son of Hope, Nancy, because he feels that he 88 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: represents Hope. That's rewriting history, the son of Hope. Uh, 89 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: what do you think, Karen Start? You heard Troy Slayton 90 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: say son of Sam David Berkowitz should get parole. So 91 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:04,159 Speaker 1: I I feel like he hasn't really learned anything. He 92 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 1: says that he's regretful, and yet if you read interviews 93 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 1: with him, he's still blaming the media for exaggerating the 94 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: crimes and and engaging the public to make it much worse. 95 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,559 Speaker 1: How could it possibly be worse than it was? He's 96 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 1: classic antisocial personality, Nancy. So he has no conscience. I 97 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 1: don't see how that could possibly change, even though he's 98 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:36,159 Speaker 1: doing these reported um good works while he's in jail 99 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 1: and has converted he's a born again Christian. He's you 100 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 1: know what, Karen Stark, I appreciate him claiming he's a 101 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:47,600 Speaker 1: born again Christian. I really do, Vincent Hill, private an investigator. 102 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 1: I recall the first time um I handled a huge 103 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 1: arrayment calendar. It was about a hundred and fifty to 104 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:58,039 Speaker 1: two hundred newly indicted felons, and they all came to 105 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: court for arrayment hearing, and they saw I was wearing 106 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 1: a cross. Well, the next week all the ones in 107 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:06,919 Speaker 1: the jail, which would be about half of those, about 108 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: fifty guys, came over and they many of them had 109 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: gotten a hold of yarn and had I guess, knitted 110 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: huge crosses that they then hung around their necks trying 111 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: to get me to give them a lighter sentence. So 112 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: if he's born again Christian, power to him. But that's 113 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: between him and the Lord. That has nothing to do 114 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 1: with him getting out from behind bars. So, Vincent Hill, 115 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: what do you make of the rehabilitation of the serial killer? Yeah, Nancy, 116 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 1: I can't tell you how many guys found Jesus When 117 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: I would arrest them and send them away to prison, 118 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: that is usually the norm. But listen, this guy terrorized 119 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 1: a city that was already known for violence. I mean, 120 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 1: look at New York in the seventies. It was already 121 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: known for violence, but he struck terror and fear. And 122 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:00,679 Speaker 1: his victims I think he had some mommy shoes because 123 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 1: they were women with long, dark hair. And you heard 124 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: him talk about how his mom died during childbirth, which 125 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 1: we found that later not to be true. So that 126 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:13,679 Speaker 1: stuff doesn't go away mentally, you know, whether you find Jesus. 127 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: Wait a minute, this hill, this hill, stop the press 128 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 1: is did you just say his mother did not die 129 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 1: during childbirth, Nancy. It was found out later that you know, 130 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 1: she was seeing this guy who was married. You know, 131 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: she got pregnant and he's like, listen, you're not gonna 132 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 1: keep this baby. You're not gonna give him my name. 133 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: So I think the the die that childbirth was just alive. 134 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 1: Here is David Berkwitz, the son of Sam, talking to 135 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 1: CBS about the shootings. I thought I was doing something 136 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: to appeased the devil. I'm sorry for it, but I 137 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: really don't want to talk about it. No, I was 138 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: at this time. I end up serving him, you know, 139 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 1: I was s begam. I feel that you're taken over 140 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: my mind, and I just surrendered to those very dark forces. 141 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: I regret that with all my heart. But you know, 142 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: that was like forty years ago, and I understand that 143 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 1: it was demonic thing, and you know, I just opened 144 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 1: myself up to some very dark forces to come in 145 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,679 Speaker 1: and can't you know, change that. Look I look at 146 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:21,959 Speaker 1: that and disbelief. I can't believe that happened. I look 147 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 1: back none. If it makes any sense, it doesn't. Yeah, 148 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:28,440 Speaker 1: it doesn't make any sense at all. It was under 149 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 1: strong delusions. That's what happens when you come under those powers. 150 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: You're under of strong delusions you do so, you know, 151 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 1: you look back and say, what, what the heck happened? 152 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:42,319 Speaker 1: That was just just you know, mental darkness. I was 153 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: serving Sate. Okay, does it never end with this guy? 154 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 1: Vincent Hill, private investigator, former cop. You know that son 155 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 1: of Sam admitted at some point, I mean, his defense 156 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 1: at the time was that a dog named Harry, who 157 00:09:57,080 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 1: belonged to his neighbor Sam, told him to commit the murders. 158 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: He later admitted that was a lie. And here he 159 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: is lying through his teeth, saying that he was serving Satan. 160 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 1: He admitted at some point that the whole dog talking 161 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:16,679 Speaker 1: to him, the devil talking to him through a dog, 162 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 1: was just a hoax. It was just saying anything to 163 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: try to get off, and he's still running with that 164 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:25,959 Speaker 1: after he's admitted it's a lie. I mean, Vincent, why 165 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 1: should I believe now he says he's rehabilitated and should 166 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 1: get out if he's still lying about the dark dog? Yeah, 167 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: I don't know, Nancy. I mean, my dog ate my homework. 168 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:40,559 Speaker 1: I mean, let's be clear. This guy has some serious 169 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: psychological issues. He's got mother issues, He's got issues of 170 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: dealing with what he saw is reluctant father figures throughout 171 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:51,840 Speaker 1: his life, which is why he picked the victims. And 172 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: the victims were a couples sitting in cars that reminded 173 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 1: him of his childhood and that rejection, and that rejection, Nancy, 174 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 1: doesn't go away. You know, this guy never changes. TROYE. Layton, 175 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 1: renowned l a defense attorney. He's lying again about the 176 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 1: dog and the devil. So why should I believe mena 177 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: parole hearing because he's been Didn't you just say he's 178 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: telling the truth, Nancy, He's being host He's not being honest, Nancy. 179 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 1: He has been a model prisoner, according to all of 180 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:33,559 Speaker 1: the jailer's according to every the chaplains according to everyone 181 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 1: at the facilities that he's been at, he has been 182 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 1: a model, He's helped other prisoners, he has graduated college, 183 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 1: he has done everything that has been asked of him 184 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 1: for nearly a lifetime, over three decades. And if we 185 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: believe in the system when it's most jail systems are 186 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: called Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, then by all accounts, 187 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:07,199 Speaker 1: he appears to be rehabilitated. Well, let me correct you 188 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 1: on one thing. I don't think that the jailers are 189 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: saying anything about how great he's been. I think he 190 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 1: is saying that he has been great behind bars. I 191 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:19,080 Speaker 1: don't know that that's coming from the warden or anybody else. 192 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 1: But Son of Sam, a known serial killer, speaking of 193 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:27,080 Speaker 1: all his uh the tales that he spends. Take a 194 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: listen to Son of Sam and his own words talking 195 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:34,439 Speaker 1: about his newly discovered religion. I have strong faith in God. 196 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 1: I believe that the Lord is carrying me through this. 197 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 1: I think that if it wasn't for for my faith 198 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: in Christ and my belief, I probably would have given 199 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 1: up a long time ago. Have a lot of guilt 200 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: of what happened, a lot of remorse, and those things 201 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: are always on my mind, you know, even as I 202 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:58,440 Speaker 1: try to remain upbeat and cheerful and positive, you know, 203 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,680 Speaker 1: it always I know of forget you know, where I 204 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:05,840 Speaker 1: came from and what my situation was like some four 205 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 1: decades ago, people that were hurt, people that are still 206 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: in pain, suffering loss because of my criminal actions. And 207 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 1: I never forget that that sometimes weighs very heavy on me. Yeah, yeah, 208 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: and uh, it's a it's a pain there that really 209 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 1: doesn't go away. But by the grace of God, I'm 210 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: looking to overcome that. The Lord forgives even the worst 211 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 1: of of of offenders, and he could, he could make 212 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 1: your life new, He could give you hope, he could 213 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 1: use you even if you failed many times, even if 214 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 1: you've done bad things. They're still hope for you, just 215 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 1: still forgiveness for you. And and that's that's the message 216 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 1: I always take carry forward, you know, back to you. 217 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 1: Choice Light and l a defense attorney. He was given 218 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:55,199 Speaker 1: multiple twenty five years to life sentences six and they 219 00:13:55,200 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 1: were to run consecutively. That means one after the next, 220 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 1: after the next. Therefore, he would be doing about a 221 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:11,440 Speaker 1: hundred and eighty years behind bars minimum. If you take 222 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,679 Speaker 1: twenty five time six and that that's that's giving him 223 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 1: a bonus of several years to life. So why should 224 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: he get out now? And I'm happy that he believes 225 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: he's been forgiven by our Holy Father, and maybe he has, 226 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 1: but that's between him and the Lord. That does not 227 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: mean that we have to open the jail house door 228 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 1: and let him walk free just because he's been forgiven. 229 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 1: That means, you know, maybe he'll get to go to heaven. 230 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: I don't know about that, but I know this, this 231 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: guy does not need to walk. Nancy. His attorney reports 232 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 1: that every single time that he visited him, the staff 233 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 1: at the correctional facility would gush about what a model 234 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: prisoner he's been, and how appropriate and compliant and helpful 235 00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: he's been. That's funny because I don't see them quoted 236 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: anywhere but by the offense lawyer. Well, I'm sure that 237 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 1: the parole board can call any of those witnesses. And so, yes, 238 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 1: he did get consecutive life sentences, but they were not 239 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: without the possibility of parole. And so the law is 240 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: working here by giving him an opportunity to be evaluated 241 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: by a parole board, by a civilian parole board who 242 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 1: can look at what he's done and listen to his 243 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 1: story and see if he's shown remorse, which he has. 244 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 1: He's admitted to his crimes and he was caught dan 245 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 1: the water. He admitted after the state had created a 246 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: case that would have proven him guilty, and he would 247 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 1: have it would have been probably life without parole. He 248 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: planed on these That's why he got life with the 249 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: possibility of parole. I mean he planned because he was busted. So, Nancy, 250 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: they state made a deal with him, and they now 251 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 1: you want them to reneg on their deal. No, I 252 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 1: want him to do a sentence that sixth consecutive twenty 253 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 1: five years. And you know what, take a listen to this. 254 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: This is Robert Valante who describes being shot by son 255 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: of Sam David Berkowitz, who now wants to walk free. Listen. 256 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: We decided to drive to one of the as they 257 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 1: call it a lovers lane. But we got out and 258 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:28,119 Speaker 1: we went into the park. When I walked to the swings, 259 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 1: I saw who I found that later on was Berkowitz. 260 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 1: But then I didn't pay on mind. Just so here's 261 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 1: just some guy hanging out in the park, you know. 262 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 1: So we go onto the swings. But now Stacy turns 263 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: to me and said, Robert, you know what, I'm getting 264 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: a little nervous. Why don't we go back to the car. 265 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 1: I went back into the car. Now we're sitting there 266 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: a couple of minutes and we're just talking, you know, 267 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: kissing you a little bit and talking and uh. And 268 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:08,160 Speaker 1: that was it. And then five minutes later is when 269 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:14,880 Speaker 1: everything happened. When I got shot. I woke up and 270 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:17,119 Speaker 1: I couldn't see anything. I was totally blind. I was 271 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 1: totally you know, full of blood. I couldn't see Stay. 272 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,680 Speaker 1: She's sitting right next to me. I heard some moaning 273 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 1: coming from Stacy. I said, oh my god, Oh my god, 274 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:35,680 Speaker 1: we've been shot. The bullet totally destroyed the left eye 275 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:39,199 Speaker 1: and most of my right eye. I kept asking for 276 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 1: her every day, and they kept saying, Oh, she's gonna 277 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 1: be she's gonna be okay, She's gonna be okay. I mean, 278 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:48,400 Speaker 1: while she died eighteen hours after we admitted right into 279 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: the hospital. I was very guilty for years that Stay 280 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: she was killed because she said, Robert, let's go, and 281 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 1: I said five more minutes. And in that five minutes 282 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 1: when we got shot. So if I would have left 283 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 1: when she said, I probably would have. She would be 284 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: alive today. It just consumed me the guilt. Have you 285 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 1: found it in here to forgive David Berkowitz, Not even 286 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: for for hotbeat, not even for a second. Killers like 287 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 1: that don't change. He can come up with this one again, 288 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:36,639 Speaker 1: Christian stuff and everything else. He was evil then, and 289 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 1: he's still evil as far as I'm concerned. You know 290 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,880 Speaker 1: just the way I feel, you know, and I think 291 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 1: anybody in my position would probably feel the same way. 292 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: You know, he ruins not just my life, twelve other lives, 293 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 1: plus the families. So how do you forgive something like that, 294 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 1: somebody like that? You don't. Did you know about a 295 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:06,119 Speaker 1: recent law that could leave your personal data exposed online 296 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: for anybody to find? 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Truth Finders 306 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 1: searches through millions of public records, puts all that data 307 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 1: together and one easy to read report. Members get unlimited searches, 308 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:52,920 Speaker 1: so you can also look up those close to you 309 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,159 Speaker 1: and make sure they're not hiding something from their past. 310 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 1: You also get free dart web monitoring to make truth 311 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: find the ultimate tool in identity protection. If your personal 312 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:07,199 Speaker 1: info appears for sale in the dark web, you'll be 313 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 1: the first to note. Visit truth finder dot com slash Nancy, 314 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 1: enter your own name get started. I was very guilty 315 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:21,120 Speaker 1: for years that stay. She was killed because she said, Robert, 316 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 1: let's go, and I said five more minutes. And in 317 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:31,159 Speaker 1: that five minutes when we got shot. So if I 318 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 1: would have left when she said, I probably would have 319 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 1: she would be alive today. A prolific killer, son of Sam, 320 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:44,920 Speaker 1: also known as the forty four caliber killer, a serial killer. 321 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:51,199 Speaker 1: David Berkowitz to Vincent Hill, private investigator and former police officer, 322 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:56,640 Speaker 1: joining me, Vincent, when you hear the victims describing this 323 00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:01,120 Speaker 1: and that guy, Robert the Alante just scribing how he 324 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 1: was shot and the young girl he was with a 325 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:09,879 Speaker 1: nineteen year old girl who was killed by the way 326 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: um He's describes something that we often shrug off, pure evil. 327 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 1: A lot of people won't talk about it. A lot 328 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:23,440 Speaker 1: of people won't say it because they think it sounds crazy. 329 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 1: You know what, I disagree. I think there is good 330 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:30,159 Speaker 1: and there is evil in the world. I really do. 331 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 1: And I believe with all of my heart that the 332 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 1: Son of Sam is pure evil. And you know, our 333 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:40,159 Speaker 1: choice is for him to walk free on parole or 334 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,719 Speaker 1: to stay behind bars where he belongs. Do you believe 335 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 1: and in your practice is a cop and a p 336 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: I that evil does exist? No, absolutely, Nancy. Just like 337 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:53,680 Speaker 1: there's a heaven in the hell, there is definitely good 338 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: and evil and then exists all over this world. And 339 00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,399 Speaker 1: I mean, I think the Son of Sam proved it, 340 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,239 Speaker 1: and I think that victim said it best. Guys like 341 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 1: that don't change. And this guy has been carrying this 342 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 1: guilt around for almost forty years, Nancy. And let's look 343 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,200 Speaker 1: at it a different way. What if the Sun is saying, 344 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: what if his main objective is to get out and 345 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 1: finish that job, to go seek this guy out when 346 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:19,679 Speaker 1: he gets out of prison, maybe not to kill him, 347 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,919 Speaker 1: maybe just to taunt him. But I think he's exactly 348 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:24,959 Speaker 1: where he needs to be and where he should remain 349 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: in prison. You know it wasn't just hire. There are 350 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 1: so many other victims. Karen Stark, New York psychologist. Do 351 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 1: you believe that evil exists? Oh, without a doubt, Nancy. 352 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:41,680 Speaker 1: I think it that evil exists. I think that we're 353 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 1: born with the capacity to be good or to be evil. 354 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 1: And um, I think that as a psychologist. I mean 355 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:56,879 Speaker 1: there's a combination of genetics and background that contribute to 356 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:02,160 Speaker 1: whether that comes out. And this is a guy who 357 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 1: I I can't I can't really tell you that there 358 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,640 Speaker 1: is such a thing as rehabilitation. I don't care what 359 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 1: they're saying about him in jail. It's easy in jail 360 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: to come across as a good guy. Troyce Layton, Let 361 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,359 Speaker 1: me guess you're the l a defense attorney joining us today, 362 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 1: high profile lawyer. Troy, I guess you don't think evil exists. 363 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:27,160 Speaker 1: Of course evil exists, Nancy. In order to have good 364 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:31,639 Speaker 1: there must be bad. In order to have uh good people, 365 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: there will be evil people. Yes, of course there is. 366 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:40,639 Speaker 1: But we need to look at the facts, and the 367 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:45,920 Speaker 1: facts are that he has demonstrated over the past three 368 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:53,880 Speaker 1: decades a life of industry and sobriety, and the facts 369 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 1: indicate that he, for all intents and purposes, has been 370 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 1: a model prisoner. He's been a good person helping others 371 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: inside jail for the last thirty years. Well, here's how 372 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,879 Speaker 1: the whole thing went down. The son of Sam David 373 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 1: Berkowitz was born to a young lady. Within a few 374 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 1: days of his birth, she gave him away for adoption. 375 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,640 Speaker 1: Why we don't know that. But she did not die 376 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: in childbirth, as he would want you to believe. Now. 377 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,679 Speaker 1: He was then adopted by a very loving family, Pearl 378 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: and Nathan Berkowitz, and uh, they were hardware store retailers, 379 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:37,160 Speaker 1: and they were childless and desperately wanted a child, and 380 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 1: they adopted him almost immediately. He started causing trouble, causing 381 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:50,200 Speaker 1: trouble at school. He had high high high above average intelligence, 382 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 1: but he lost interest in learning at an early age 383 00:24:54,880 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 1: and instead became interested in stealing and starting five yours 384 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 1: and neighbors and relatives would recall him as being a 385 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:09,359 Speaker 1: spoiled brat and a bully because of all of his misconduct. 386 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:13,959 Speaker 1: In his bullish behavior, in the neighborhood. He joined the army, 387 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,879 Speaker 1: he served the US and South Korea. He was discharged, 388 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 1: He found his birth mother and after a few visits, 389 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 1: she told him the truth of his birth. But yet 390 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 1: he still continues this fantasy of his troubled childhood because 391 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 1: his mom died in childbirth. It's all a lie. He's 392 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 1: still lying even now. If you don't believe me, listen 393 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: to another of his victims that lived to tell the tale. 394 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 1: This is Carl Dinorro describing being gunned down. Started out 395 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: as a typical Friday night. We drove to a hundred 396 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,959 Speaker 1: fifty ninth Street and thirty second Avenue. Basually we started 397 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:56,160 Speaker 1: making out, and like two minutes later, the car exploded. 398 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,440 Speaker 1: All the you know, the windows blew out of the car. 399 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,400 Speaker 1: Because it was a Volkswagen went to was at the time. 400 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 1: They were they were made air tight, so as soon 401 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 1: as as soon as the bold hit, the windows just shattered. 402 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,399 Speaker 1: So I piece the class all of my arms. I 403 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,679 Speaker 1: didn't know I was shot, but I knew something terribly 404 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,120 Speaker 1: and terrible it happened. I told her start the car, 405 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,119 Speaker 1: let's get out of here. And as she pulled up 406 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: in front the bar at the doorman said that I 407 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,359 Speaker 1: was calling. You know, looked too good. He said, you know, 408 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:27,920 Speaker 1: sit down, And as I sat down, my head dropped 409 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 1: and my long hair was holding in all the blood 410 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,120 Speaker 1: from my head wound that I didn't didn't know I had. 411 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 1: Three of my friends drove me to Flushing Flushing Hospital 412 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 1: murdency room, where they proceeded to pick out bone fragments 413 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 1: and class fragments from the back of my head. And 414 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 1: basically next thing I remember, I was in a hospital 415 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 1: bed when my head bandaged up, and I was probably 416 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 1: nine time in the morning. When I got home, I 417 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: there was nothing. There was no skull. The skull was 418 00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 1: blown away. It was probably aside a little bit big 419 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 1: than a fifty cent piece, So I the only thing 420 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 1: protecting my brain from the outside world was a flap 421 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:10,959 Speaker 1: of skin. So I basically was housebound for three months 422 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: until I had second surgery to put a plate in 423 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:18,120 Speaker 1: my head. I have limited vision um on my right 424 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 1: side below my waist, so unfortunately walk into fire hydrants 425 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,400 Speaker 1: on a regular basis. But other than that, I've I've 426 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 1: you know, there's no no residual effects. I'm happy to 427 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 1: be alive, and I know, well, you know, I know 428 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,399 Speaker 1: a lot of people died from the same from the 429 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 1: same gun. So in that respect, you know, I'm just 430 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 1: happy to be alive. And one of my favorite sayings 431 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: is life stuff, get a helmet. Wow, we are listening 432 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 1: to a victim that lived to tell the tale, the 433 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:51,639 Speaker 1: victim of David Berkowitz's son of Sam. Vincent Hill, private 434 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: investigator with me Kier and start New York psychologist and 435 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:58,120 Speaker 1: renowned defensive jorney out of l A. Troy Slayton. So, 436 00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,679 Speaker 1: Vincent Hill, he's going son of Sam David Barker was 437 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 1: going up for a parole hearing yet again, and many 438 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 1: insiders believe he actually has a shot to walk free 439 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:12,159 Speaker 1: this time. Vincent Hill explain how a board hearing works 440 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: for the parole board. Well, they're gonna look at many, 441 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 1: many factors, Nancy. They're gonna look at his behavior inside prison. 442 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 1: You know what he's done since he's been there. I 443 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:23,440 Speaker 1: know Troy said he got a college degree, and they're 444 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:25,239 Speaker 1: gonna they're gonna look at that. They're gonna look at 445 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: any disciplinary history may have had in prison, which he 446 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:30,920 Speaker 1: may not have had any. I mean, if you look 447 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,879 Speaker 1: at this guy without his forty four caliber He's not 448 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 1: a very intimidating guy to be in prison with some 449 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 1: actual hardened criminals that kill people very personally in your face. 450 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 1: So I doubt he's had any disciplinary issues in prison. 451 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,280 Speaker 1: So they're gonna look at all of that and make 452 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 1: that decision. But import more importantly, they're going to listen 453 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 1: to these victims who will be at that hearing so 454 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: they can tell these stories that they're telling here in 455 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 1: this piece that we're listening to to karras Jar New 456 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 1: York psychologist Karen What does it reveal the fact that 457 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 1: he seemingly enjoyed killing and maiming. He would return to 458 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: the scene of the crimes to kind of relive the 459 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 1: murders and would even send taunting letters mocking the police 460 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 1: before they actually captured him. What does that reveal about 461 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 1: who he is? Well, it revealed Nancy Dad he has 462 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 1: um no conscience, that he actually enjoyed the experience. And 463 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 1: one of the things that they find when they look 464 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 1: at serial killers and murderers is that they had very 465 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 1: um low threshold for excitement, that their heart feat is low, 466 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 1: and that they have to really really raise it in 467 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 1: order to enjoy themselves. And one of the things that 468 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 1: they enjoy is any kind of a thrill, And for 469 00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: a man like this, the thrill comes from killing. No. 470 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 1: Just looking at some of the letters that he wrote 471 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 1: to police Troy slayton Um, he refers to himself as 472 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: son of Sam, Sam the Terrible, the Duke of Death, 473 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 1: disciple of Hell, blah blah blah blah. Please inform all 474 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 1: the detectives worse working in the case. I wish him 475 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 1: the best of luck. Keep them digging, think positive, knock 476 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 1: on coffins. Really, Troy, I'm quoting from his letter. Sounds 477 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 1: like somebody crying out for help, Nancy. Sounds like a 478 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 1: serial killer. This was a person who, to the only 479 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 1: family that he knew, the Berkowitz family that was good 480 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 1: enough to take in a child who was essentially orphaned 481 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 1: by being given up for adoption, was told that his 482 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: mother died in childbirth. That's not necessarily a story that 483 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 1: he made up. That's what he was told. And then 484 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 1: he went and talked to his mother. He found her, 485 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 1: He talked exactly so he found out that the only 486 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 1: family that he knew, the Berkowitz Is, had lied to him, 487 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 1: so he couldn't even trust them. The people who had 488 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,480 Speaker 1: taken him in and raised him. So he went on 489 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 1: a killing spray. He served his country in the army 490 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 1: and saw probably some horrible things in South Korea which 491 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 1: could make anyone be disturbed. And disturbed, yes, but people 492 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 1: come from back from battle all the time and don't 493 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 1: go on killing sprays. Troy, I mean, that's lame. So 494 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 1: he did some horrible things. He admits that he did 495 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 1: horrible things. He admits that he was overcome by dark forces, 496 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 1: by evil, by whatever you want to call it. And 497 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 1: then he's been a model prisoner. He's done every single 498 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 1: what about has asked? Does the name Golden State Killer 499 00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 1: ring a bell? Think about? Think about in a moment 500 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: right now, a former cop Dangelo is connected to at 501 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,600 Speaker 1: least twelve murders, fifty brutal rapes, and a hundred and 502 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 1: twenty home burglaries because a site like ancestry dot com 503 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:20,239 Speaker 1: where some relative hide of the killer had sent in 504 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 1: their DNA at some point. So the police gets super 505 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 1: smart and they sent in DNA from one of the 506 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:33,760 Speaker 1: murders and they get a hit. What's the likelihood that 507 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 1: the same thing is going to take place with son 508 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 1: of Sam Because you know, familial DNA is now allowed 509 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 1: in New York thanks to the father of a murder victim. 510 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,600 Speaker 1: And what would you think about the possibility there may 511 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,600 Speaker 1: be more murders connected to son of Sam that would 512 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 1: pretty much blow his chances of parole, Troy, Look, if 513 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 1: there are other uncharged crimes that the government has evidence of, 514 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:03,360 Speaker 1: then bring forward and and let's hear it out in 515 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:07,480 Speaker 1: the in the courtroom. And yes, with the Golden State Killer, 516 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 1: they caught him, his time is up. Great, he'll go 517 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 1: to trial and we'll be able to test the evidence 518 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:20,160 Speaker 1: against him. So if that that's pure speculation to think 519 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 1: that all of a sudden there's going to be more 520 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 1: evidence against Berkowitz. If they had that evidence, we would 521 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 1: certainly know about it. Now, guys, we are talking about 522 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: the son of Sam, David Berkowitz, who is now coming 523 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 1: up for parole. Let's hear a little bit more of 524 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:42,000 Speaker 1: David Berkowitz here he is posting himself on YouTube. Okay, well, well, 525 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:46,160 Speaker 1: my name is David uh David Burkewitz, and I'm currently 526 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 1: in prison doing multiple life sentences for a series of 527 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,800 Speaker 1: murders which happened back in nineteen seventies. Six nineteen seventy seven. 528 00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:00,200 Speaker 1: I've been incarcerated for thirty nine years, approach in the 529 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 1: forty year mark, and my story really is a story 530 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 1: of UH tragedy and triumph. It's a story of a 531 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,840 Speaker 1: lot of hurt and pain, but thanks to God, a 532 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:17,000 Speaker 1: lot of peace and UH forgiveness. And I've seen over 533 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 1: the years many miracles that have happened in my life, 534 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,759 Speaker 1: in the life of some of the people that were 535 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:29,279 Speaker 1: hurt by this tragedy, and UH as a as a 536 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,560 Speaker 1: Christian in prison, I've seen God do many wonderful things 537 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,719 Speaker 1: in the lives of the prisoners here, reuniting them with 538 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:39,880 Speaker 1: their family members, helping them to deal with guilt issues 539 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,279 Speaker 1: and all the things that I'm dealing with myself. So 540 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 1: I've been there and done that and and suffered along 541 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,680 Speaker 1: with them. But this story is really although there's some 542 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,399 Speaker 1: very sad parts to my story, I believe that it's 543 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 1: a story of forgiveness and hope and triumph, and that 544 00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 1: ultimately whoever here me speak now or watches this UH, 545 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,400 Speaker 1: that they will take away something that they never some 546 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:11,800 Speaker 1: insight that they never knew before about childhood struggles, growing 547 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:16,920 Speaker 1: up overwhelmed with periods of depression, and self destructive behaviors, 548 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:21,040 Speaker 1: as well as you know, my adolescent struggles as well 549 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:23,640 Speaker 1: as the good things that happened, because I really had 550 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 1: a life of going up as a kid in the Bronx. 551 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:30,160 Speaker 1: I really had a life of adventure there and many 552 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:32,399 Speaker 1: good experience as well as a bad one. So it's 553 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:34,239 Speaker 1: a it's a bit of sweet story. It's like a 554 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,239 Speaker 1: tale of two cities. And so this is really what 555 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:39,840 Speaker 1: I want to share, and I I really don't know 556 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:42,839 Speaker 1: how to begin except to say, well, I guess I'm 557 00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,879 Speaker 1: beginning right now, come to think of it. But I'd 558 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:50,400 Speaker 1: like to begin by sharing, uh a serious some portions 559 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 1: of some letters I received a number of years ago, 560 00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:58,120 Speaker 1: back in two thousand and one, two thousand and two, UH, 561 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,960 Speaker 1: from a woman who lost her daughter in the last 562 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:06,319 Speaker 1: of the so called Son of Sam shootings. UH. This 563 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:10,720 Speaker 1: young woman, Stacy moscow wos Uh, tragically lost her life 564 00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy seven, and of course, after I was arrested, 565 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 1: there was tremendous hostility towards me from the public and 566 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,440 Speaker 1: of course from the families of victims and so forth. 567 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:29,279 Speaker 1: And that's perfectly understandable. Over the years, though, as I 568 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,200 Speaker 1: moved on with my life, having come to prison and 569 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:36,320 Speaker 1: going through the whole, this whole ordeal. It was always 570 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,920 Speaker 1: on my heart, especially after I became a Christian myself, 571 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:44,239 Speaker 1: to to somehow reach out to the people I had 572 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,840 Speaker 1: heard in the past to hurt in my time of ignorance. 573 00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:51,400 Speaker 1: And and I said, God, make a way for me 574 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,560 Speaker 1: to just let these people know whoever they are and 575 00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,200 Speaker 1: wherever they are, you know how sorry I am for 576 00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:01,200 Speaker 1: what had happened, and and how I you know, pray 577 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,560 Speaker 1: for them and hope that as much as possible they 578 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 1: can heal from this. Of course, no one ever fully 579 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 1: heals from from losing a loved one, especially losing somebody 580 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,640 Speaker 1: in a crime, during a crime of violence. Nevertheless, that 581 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 1: was always one of my highest prayers, that somehow I 582 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:20,879 Speaker 1: can make peace with the least somebody from that time 583 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,680 Speaker 1: of my past who was tragic, was hurt greatly and 584 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:29,000 Speaker 1: over the years thanks to a well, of course, it 585 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,359 Speaker 1: was God God that did this, but also I thank 586 00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:35,120 Speaker 1: up a journalist by the name of Maury Terry who 587 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:38,239 Speaker 1: was used by God, I believe, to help me to 588 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,520 Speaker 1: reach out to this one particular a person, and this 589 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:45,920 Speaker 1: is Mrs Moscow. It's Nissa Moscow Wits, whose daughter Stacy 590 00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:50,160 Speaker 1: was killed in that in that last shooting. And it 591 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,359 Speaker 1: was a dream come true because contact was made through 592 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:57,000 Speaker 1: some friends in Georgia who had been a Christian couple 593 00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:00,200 Speaker 1: in Georgia whom were friends of mine and reached out 594 00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 1: to her and established a friendship, and eventually I was 595 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:07,520 Speaker 1: able to write to Mrs Moscow. It's Tenissa. She always 596 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:10,400 Speaker 1: wanted to be called Nissa, and so I was able 597 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:14,319 Speaker 1: to write to her and we developed a correspondence and 598 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,640 Speaker 1: we even spoke on the phone on a handful of occasions, 599 00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,480 Speaker 1: and it was a time of great healing and everything. 600 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:22,400 Speaker 1: And really this was a miracle of God. If you 601 00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,799 Speaker 1: think about how miraculous this is, it's not something to 602 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:29,920 Speaker 1: be taken lightly. It doesn't happen every day where uh 603 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:32,839 Speaker 1: the mother of a of a murder victim would would 604 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:36,359 Speaker 1: would forgive uh you know, the person in prison. And 605 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:40,840 Speaker 1: but this is exactly what happened. Hope and triumph, Hope 606 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:44,239 Speaker 1: and triumph, you know what, uh Karen started. I really 607 00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:47,759 Speaker 1: can't really explain it, being a crime victim myself, to 608 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:53,880 Speaker 1: hear him talking about his potential release behind bars, it 609 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:58,520 Speaker 1: actually makes my stomach hurt, and I wonder if the 610 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:01,960 Speaker 1: other victims feel the same way. It's like a bitter 611 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:07,160 Speaker 1: taste in my mouth. They're dead, their entire lives were 612 00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:11,920 Speaker 1: plugged away from them as teens in a brutal way. 613 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,400 Speaker 1: It's like he went hunting for young women and he 614 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,680 Speaker 1: would find them and murder them and take great joy 615 00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,239 Speaker 1: in it, going back to the scene to relive the 616 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,760 Speaker 1: moment he killed them, taunting the police. I mean, that's 617 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:29,520 Speaker 1: why we have jail, to keep him in there and 618 00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:33,600 Speaker 1: away from innocent people. Karen, I mean, the whole this 619 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:37,520 Speaker 1: whole thing is very upsetting to me, without a doubt, Nancy, 620 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:39,920 Speaker 1: and I'm sure that for you it just triggers all 621 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:44,280 Speaker 1: your own memories and trauma that you went through. It's 622 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:48,000 Speaker 1: really hard to listen to him say what a tragedy 623 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:52,000 Speaker 1: it is. That he's talking about something that he created, 624 00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:55,360 Speaker 1: and it says though he's not, it's as though he's 625 00:39:55,440 --> 00:40:01,040 Speaker 1: talking about another person um some tragedy. You don't get 626 00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:05,239 Speaker 1: any feeling of authenticity, which it doesn't surprise me at all, 627 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:11,040 Speaker 1: because he can't be authentic. He has a personality disorder, 628 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,719 Speaker 1: another issue. I haven't you're the shrink, you know, I'm 629 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:17,840 Speaker 1: just a trial lawyer. Is all the lies that he spends. 630 00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,879 Speaker 1: The lies about his mom dying in childbirth to try 631 00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,920 Speaker 1: to make us feel sorry for him. The lie about 632 00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:27,480 Speaker 1: his upbringing when he had to loving adoptive parents that 633 00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:29,640 Speaker 1: took him in and tried their best to give him 634 00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:33,719 Speaker 1: a good life. The lies about and he admits this 635 00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:37,719 Speaker 1: was a lie that he carried out in court where 636 00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:43,160 Speaker 1: he claimed faky mental illness that the dog Harvey, who 637 00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:46,800 Speaker 1: belonged to the neighbors Sam, told him to commit murders. 638 00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,880 Speaker 1: I mean, it sounds fantastical, but it was the basis 639 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:52,760 Speaker 1: for a mental incompetence or insanity claim at the time. 640 00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:59,160 Speaker 1: And he engineered that lie to manipulate his lawyers, mental 641 00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:04,120 Speaker 1: health work, hers, the courts, everyone. That's how he got 642 00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:09,200 Speaker 1: his Moniker son of Sam killer. All of this carefully 643 00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:14,399 Speaker 1: engineered to save his own skin. Karen starting, I mean, 644 00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:16,959 Speaker 1: why would we go out on a limb and let 645 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:21,040 Speaker 1: this guy loose? I can't imagine that we would do that, Nancy, 646 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,759 Speaker 1: And I bet it doesn't happen. Wait, I forgot to 647 00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:27,120 Speaker 1: tell you something, Karen. And when he was sentenced. When 648 00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,759 Speaker 1: he was sentenced, he attempted to jump out of a 649 00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:34,160 Speaker 1: window to get away. He was restrained, and he kept saying, 650 00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:38,680 Speaker 1: over and over, Stacy was a whore. I'd kill her again. 651 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:43,480 Speaker 1: I'd kill them all again. Stacy was a whore. I mean, 652 00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:49,880 Speaker 1: he murdered the girl. That's who he is. In death. 653 00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:55,040 Speaker 1: He's still calling her names, he's still attacking her, vowing 654 00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:57,960 Speaker 1: he would kill them all again. And there's a chance 655 00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:01,239 Speaker 1: this guy is gonna be released, Karen Start, I can't 656 00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:04,319 Speaker 1: imagine that, Nancy, he won't be released. I would be 657 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:08,279 Speaker 1: amazed if he would be released. I know that, yes, 658 00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:12,920 Speaker 1: we're supposed to have prisons be for rehabilitation. You cannot 659 00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:17,240 Speaker 1: rehabilitate somebody with this kind of mental disorder. He doesn't 660 00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:22,520 Speaker 1: know how to feel. Regret, he can't change. That's an impossibility. 661 00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:24,839 Speaker 1: I don't think that they know what else to do 662 00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:28,239 Speaker 1: with him. But I wouldn't buy a single thing that 663 00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:32,799 Speaker 1: he says. He doesn't really come across even when you 664 00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:36,480 Speaker 1: listen to him now as somebody who has any sincere 665 00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:40,879 Speaker 1: regrets or understand what went into that happening for him, 666 00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,040 Speaker 1: I don't think we should feel sorry for him because 667 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:47,359 Speaker 1: he was so lucky that he was adopted by these 668 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:51,160 Speaker 1: people and he shows classic signs of someone who has 669 00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:55,000 Speaker 1: an antisocial personality, getting in trouble when he was a kid, 670 00:42:55,719 --> 00:43:00,719 Speaker 1: constantly bullying, all of the things that we know to 671 00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:05,520 Speaker 1: this kind of a diagnosis, the lawns in jail, this 672 00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:08,920 Speaker 1: and hill when you look at his stack of lies 673 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:12,880 Speaker 1: that he's perpetrated on the system. And even after killing 674 00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:17,080 Speaker 1: the girl, calling her an open court Ahore, I mean 675 00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:19,920 Speaker 1: he didn't know her. He murdered her and then went 676 00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:23,719 Speaker 1: back to revisit the scene to relive the moment he 677 00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:27,600 Speaker 1: killed her. Vincent, once a liar, always a liar, Nancy, 678 00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:30,040 Speaker 1: And in my opinion, for this guy, once a killer, 679 00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:33,080 Speaker 1: always a killer. I've said it before, I said again, 680 00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:36,720 Speaker 1: he needs to stay exactly where he is. Well, you know, Vincent, 681 00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:39,840 Speaker 1: I disagree with you on one thing. I think people 682 00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:44,640 Speaker 1: can change. I do. I believe that people can see 683 00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:49,080 Speaker 1: what they've done wrong and that they can change and 684 00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:52,040 Speaker 1: they can start over and they can have a new life. 685 00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:56,400 Speaker 1: I really believe that. But why would I chance it 686 00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:01,200 Speaker 1: on son of Sam Troy Slayton. Why would I take 687 00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:07,560 Speaker 1: that chance and risk him killing somebody else so he 688 00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:12,319 Speaker 1: can have a new life. Why? Well, Nancy, if you 689 00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:16,600 Speaker 1: deny it, to him. Then you deny to everybody, because 690 00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:19,360 Speaker 1: I don't deny to everybody because everybody is not a 691 00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:24,200 Speaker 1: serial killer. So every serial killer who's granted the possibility 692 00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:28,560 Speaker 1: of parole should not be granted parole under any circumstance. Right, 693 00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:32,759 Speaker 1: you're a serial killer, you stay behind bars if you 694 00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:36,240 Speaker 1: don't get the death building. Yeah, that's what I think. Well, 695 00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,520 Speaker 1: that wasn't the deal, And the deal was not that 696 00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:43,080 Speaker 1: he would not have the possibility of parole. The deal 697 00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:46,600 Speaker 1: was that he would have the possibility of parole. And 698 00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:49,799 Speaker 1: he has done every single thing that he's supposed to do. 699 00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:54,799 Speaker 1: He has helped other inmates with mental health issues, he 700 00:44:55,080 --> 00:45:00,759 Speaker 1: helped the chapel services. He has done every single thing 701 00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,359 Speaker 1: that you could possibly do. And so you don't like 702 00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:07,880 Speaker 1: the way that he sounds. You don't like his answers 703 00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:10,200 Speaker 1: to the questions. They don't know. I just don't believe 704 00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:14,440 Speaker 1: anything that's going You know what, could You can dress 705 00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,279 Speaker 1: the devil up in a Choir Boys outfit, but that 706 00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:20,520 Speaker 1: doesn't change the fact that he's got a tail and horns. 707 00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:22,680 Speaker 1: I spend a lot of time in my cell when 708 00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:24,680 Speaker 1: I have free moments, but I'm not in the chapel 709 00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:28,640 Speaker 1: or at work whatever. I try to get some writing done. 710 00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:33,040 Speaker 1: Usually writing let us to individuals to encourage them, sometimes 711 00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:36,360 Speaker 1: writing let us to churches and youth groups. I also 712 00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:41,719 Speaker 1: have an online journal Rise and Shine dot org uh 713 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,719 Speaker 1: and which is run by a friend. I don't have 714 00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:48,520 Speaker 1: incident access or anything like that, but sometimes I'll send 715 00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:51,960 Speaker 1: my writings to this person and they'll put it online 716 00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:54,640 Speaker 1: because they feel it, you know, touches a lot of lives. 717 00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:56,920 Speaker 1: Some people from all over the world actually read that. 718 00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:00,120 Speaker 1: We had visitors from from the Middle East and for 719 00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:03,440 Speaker 1: and China. It's really amazing that the site has been 720 00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:05,799 Speaker 1: there for a number of years since two thousand and 721 00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:11,600 Speaker 1: five actually, And so I love I love writing a journal. Uh. 722 00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:15,120 Speaker 1: Even prior to that, I would send out some of 723 00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:19,800 Speaker 1: my writings to friends, and over time friends would comment, David, 724 00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:21,520 Speaker 1: you know these these things need to be in a 725 00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:25,240 Speaker 1: book now. I was just writing for enjoyment and also 726 00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:27,480 Speaker 1: because these are things God put in my heart to 727 00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:32,040 Speaker 1: write about certain things, different subjects and or spiritual messages 728 00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:36,040 Speaker 1: or whatever mixture of all these things. And and my 729 00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:40,560 Speaker 1: attitude was, well, if God wants me to put these 730 00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:42,640 Speaker 1: in a book form, we'll have to send somebody my 731 00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:45,480 Speaker 1: way to do that because I have no idea how 732 00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:47,919 Speaker 1: to do that. I never even thought about that. Well. 733 00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:50,480 Speaker 1: Over time, another friend did find somebody who was a 734 00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:54,360 Speaker 1: book publisher and approached me a Christian man and offered 735 00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:58,000 Speaker 1: to put some of my journal entries into book form, 736 00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:00,799 Speaker 1: not for me to profit. I take take nothing from that, 737 00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:05,720 Speaker 1: but but it was it was just for to reach 738 00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:08,880 Speaker 1: people with the writing. So I said, well, what the 739 00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:11,399 Speaker 1: lords will be done? And and a book called Son 740 00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:15,360 Speaker 1: of Hope Prison Journal, Volume one was was released I 741 00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:18,719 Speaker 1: think about two thousand and five, although the publisher kind 742 00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:21,120 Speaker 1: of dropped the ball. It's not really available anymore. But 743 00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:24,200 Speaker 1: I continue to write my online journal and I stay 744 00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:29,279 Speaker 1: busy with that and just reaching people. My parents made 745 00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:31,440 Speaker 1: a home for me, and I'm thankful. I'm thankful for 746 00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:35,000 Speaker 1: everything that I experienced that was good. I experienced many 747 00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:37,759 Speaker 1: good things in life. People would know that because they 748 00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,759 Speaker 1: just focus on the crimes, and but you know, I'm 749 00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:43,520 Speaker 1: not going to allow my life to be defined by 750 00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:46,000 Speaker 1: the crimes that happened during that very difficult time of 751 00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:48,280 Speaker 1: my life when I was not in my right mind 752 00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:53,120 Speaker 1: um and where I had all the influences people influencing 753 00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:57,319 Speaker 1: me too. With the Satanism and things like that. You know, 754 00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:00,759 Speaker 1: that was a tragic period. I was at a vulnerable 755 00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:03,640 Speaker 1: time getting out of the army, and all my friends 756 00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:06,000 Speaker 1: that I knew before I went into the army had 757 00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:08,520 Speaker 1: all got moved on, got married. So I was kind 758 00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:12,920 Speaker 1: of like the odd man out. And uh, I was 759 00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:15,560 Speaker 1: just lonely and searching for my place in the world, 760 00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:19,479 Speaker 1: and and fell into a lot of hard times. But 761 00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:22,200 Speaker 1: I'm a survivor. I mean, God has brought me all 762 00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:24,359 Speaker 1: this way, and he just bring me all this way 763 00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:27,359 Speaker 1: for nothing. And I believe that God had his hand 764 00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:31,360 Speaker 1: on my life even before I was born. Um. I 765 00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:33,960 Speaker 1: may have been born out of wedlock. People make a 766 00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:35,680 Speaker 1: big deal out of it. It's no big deal to 767 00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:38,319 Speaker 1: me anymore, because, as I said, I thank God for 768 00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:40,520 Speaker 1: everything that happened to me, because it's all worked out 769 00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:44,279 Speaker 1: for the good in the long run. But God has 770 00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:48,640 Speaker 1: given me. Um. God knew I was coming one day 771 00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:51,160 Speaker 1: and he welcomed me into this world. So even if 772 00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:56,839 Speaker 1: my birth father Joe didn't want me, God wanted me. 773 00:48:57,239 --> 00:49:01,799 Speaker 1: And and so the story in some way has a 774 00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:07,640 Speaker 1: happy ending. It's happy ending. It's gonna be over my 775 00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:10,640 Speaker 1: dead body that I ever agree for son of Sam 776 00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:16,480 Speaker 1: to walk free and wreak havoc on innocent people, like 777 00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:19,920 Speaker 1: all the ones he's already killed. I hope the Pardoner 778 00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:25,239 Speaker 1: in Parole Board are listening now. Nancy Grace Crime Stories 779 00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:33,879 Speaker 1: signing off, goodbye friend. Did you know a recent law 780 00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:38,680 Speaker 1: can leave your personal data exposed online for anybody to find? 781 00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:41,440 Speaker 1: If you've turned on the news lately, you know the 782 00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:45,160 Speaker 1: internet has created a dangerous new world. It's time you 783 00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:48,080 Speaker 1: take back the power by using a new website called 784 00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:51,880 Speaker 1: truth Finder. Have you been issued a speeding ticket, received 785 00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:54,000 Speaker 1: a lean from the I R S? Did you forget 786 00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:59,600 Speaker 1: about embarrassing social media profile? That info may already be online. 787 00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:04,080 Speaker 1: Truthfinder can help you find it. Truthfinder searches millions of 788 00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:08,840 Speaker 1: public records, assembling the data together in one report. Members 789 00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:12,120 Speaker 1: get unlimited searches, so you can also look up those 790 00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:15,400 Speaker 1: close to you and make sure they're not hiding something. 791 00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:19,759 Speaker 1: Visit truth finder dot com slash Nancy, enter your own name, 792 00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:20,720 Speaker 1: get started.