1 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 1: I had just turned twenty years old a month before 2 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:16,760 Speaker 1: this event happened. I was working as a store detective 3 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 1: while I was in college, and I loved it. I'd 4 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 1: been doing it in about two years, and I worked 5 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 1: alongside real detectives from the Atlanta Police Department who were 6 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:29,479 Speaker 1: working their ejs, their extra jobs. 7 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 2: I felt like a part of a. 8 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: Team that had just a lot of fun, but also 9 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 1: we put together they called them operations because in Atlanta 10 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: we had international jewel thiefs, identity thefts, and shoplifters, so 11 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:50,639 Speaker 1: we had some pretty significant people every now and then 12 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: trying to commit crime. It was April twenty sixth, nineteen 13 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: eighty five. It was a Friday night and I was off. 14 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 1: Walt and I were going to go celebrate with my 15 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: sister Shelley for her birthday. 16 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:04,400 Speaker 2: We didn't have cell. 17 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 1: Phones, so I didn't get the call until the early 18 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: morning of the twenty seventh, and I was told one 19 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 1: of the off duty officers, Bruce, one of my absolute 20 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: favorite people, had been shot and killed at the store 21 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: because he thought something didn't look right in a storage 22 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 1: room and when he opened it, he surprised the criminal 23 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 1: and he was shot to death. 24 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 2: Our guest today. 25 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 1: When I tell y'all he's got police and in his DNA, 26 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 1: I am not kiddingped He's got forty four years of 27 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 1: law enforcement experience that includes local and state level work. 28 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 1: He's worked uniform patrol, undercover, narcotics and criminal investigations. He 29 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: has supervised narcotic units, drug task Force, Major case and 30 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: multi jurisdictional task forces. He worked in uniform first, then 31 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 1: went to the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, and he ended 32 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: his career with the GBI as the Special Agent in charge. 33 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: Then he went four more years working as a chief 34 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 1: Deputy sheriff. In two thousand and four, he co chaired 35 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: the crisis management for the GBI FBI United States Secret 36 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 1: Service for the G eight Summit. He has authored four books. 37 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 1: He received the Governor's Award for Public Safety for contributing 38 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 1: to the profession of law enforcement. Today, he's the CEO 39 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 1: of JB. Edwards and Associates Consultants. He started working undercover 40 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:41,919 Speaker 1: at eighteen years old. I'm not going to waste any 41 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: more time because I could talk about his accolades and 42 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 1: his experiences and his awards for this entire episode, but 43 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: I want to go ahead and introduce to you, mister 44 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 1: John B. Edwards, Sir, thank you so much for being 45 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 1: with us. This is just a and an honor for me. 46 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 3: With a pleasure's mine, Geryl. 47 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 2: So let's get to it. 48 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:09,639 Speaker 1: Now, eighteen years old, most people are worried about football 49 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: practice and maybe what they're going to do on Friday 50 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 1: night or what girl they might can get to go 51 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 1: take to eat a hamburger, and you're already working undercover narcotics. 52 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:23,639 Speaker 4: Well, I started out it's at about sixteen or seventeen 53 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 4: dispatching at the local sheriff's office, and the sheriff at 54 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 4: that time took me under his wing. So when I 55 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 4: graduated from high school, it was kind of a natural thing. 56 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 4: And two choices the Marine Corps and that's what I 57 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 4: was looking at, or the sheriff's office, and the sheriff 58 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 4: offered me a job as a sworn uniformed officer DAVIDY Sheriff, 59 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 4: and I went to the police academy. 60 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 3: That a back at Tifton, and I took that job. 61 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 4: And then as as that job progressed for just a 62 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 4: very short period of time, six months or so, I 63 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 4: had an opportunity to adjoin what that time when history 64 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 4: was called the contract Agent program with the GBI. That's 65 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 4: what led me there to be one of those contract agents. 66 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 4: And what we did was worked a street level narcotics 67 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:16,919 Speaker 4: enforcement or in those days we called it dead Queen 68 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:22,359 Speaker 4: dope throughout the state from the North Georgia Mountains to 69 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:26,239 Speaker 4: the Well Table Light dub to Columbus and the Raven 70 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 4: Gap of Valdosta. 71 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:28,479 Speaker 3: We worked it in those days. 72 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:30,919 Speaker 1: Well, I know you don't like the word legend, but 73 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 1: let me tell you. When your name is said, that's 74 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 1: how people think of you. And you know, there's one thing. 75 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:40,679 Speaker 1: I was watching one of your trainings online and you said, 76 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:45,239 Speaker 1: and I'm quoting, there should be no ego in investigations. 77 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 2: If you need help, ask for it. 78 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 3: That's right. 79 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 1: And if somebody's got resources, you don't have ask them 80 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 1: to help and bring those resources. 81 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 4: The biggest issue in law enforcement for me was not 82 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 4: knowing what I know, but understanding what I did not know, 83 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 4: and that's huge. I always use the term that I'm 84 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:11,279 Speaker 4: just another nat around the bulls tail because ego confidence 85 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,599 Speaker 4: is needed, don't get me wrong, and especially in our craft, 86 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:17,599 Speaker 4: we need to be confident in what we do we. 87 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 3: Know as law enforced ausers. 88 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 4: If we're pidentt and competent, then we're company our shoes 89 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 4: and that makes us. It gives us the heels and 90 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 4: abilities to do things like we need and like the 91 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 4: public effects us to do. But then by the same terms, 92 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 4: if we get over confident or grow humors or ego, 93 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 4: that tends for us to treat people in a different 94 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 4: way and look at things differently. And the term I 95 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 4: like to use, and I stole it from a psychologist 96 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 4: years ago, Adam Grant was his name. I like to 97 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:56,359 Speaker 4: use the term confident humility, where we're confident to go forward, 98 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 4: to take what we're thinking and turn it into action. 99 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:02,839 Speaker 4: But yet we realize that we don't always have the 100 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 4: benefit of all the facts. Most time we don't, and 101 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 4: we concentrate not just what we know, but are humble 102 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:10,479 Speaker 4: to what we don't know. 103 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: Yep, I might steal that from you, and we'll just 104 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: keep that going. Well, you had an experience that a 105 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 1: lot of people in this business are fearful that could happen. 106 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 1: You lost a partner in the line of duty. 107 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 4: We did, and I think about him today and with 108 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 4: the other agents we've lost, We've had some true line 109 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:37,679 Speaker 4: hearts and not troopers, city police deputies, so many friends 110 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 4: over the years, but Frank. 111 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 3: Number one. 112 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 4: That was a different time, in a different place, in 113 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 4: a very different county in the state of Georgia, and 114 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 4: at that time we took more risk in those days 115 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:55,040 Speaker 4: than we normally. 116 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:56,039 Speaker 3: I don't know. 117 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 4: In the seventies there were no rules. In the eighties, 118 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 4: they started righting them. In the nineties, we got better 119 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 4: to enforce them, but we took a lot of resks 120 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:08,919 Speaker 4: and agents in those days would do what. 121 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 3: We could to try to further the case. And you know, 122 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 3: I don't need to go into all of that, but. 123 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 4: He is one of the many heroes in my book 124 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 4: that was trying to do just that, the further a 125 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 4: case and try to get this toxic poison off the streets. 126 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 4: And that's the way we looked at it. We're very biased. 127 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 4: We are into this day, that core group of GD 128 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 4: agents I talk about, we don't like to hear about 129 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 4: the legalization of marijuana or the other drug. And we're 130 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 4: biased because we put so much into working those cases 131 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 4: back then. And unfortunately Frank gave what Lincoln called his 132 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 4: last full measure of devotion. 133 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 1: Well, you also have seen the underbelly, you know, the 134 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: damage and the violence and just horrificness if that's even 135 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 1: a word. That drugs do not just to individuals, but 136 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 1: do entire communities, come to entire states and our nation. 137 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 2: You've seen it. 138 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 3: I have. 139 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 4: About half my career was in drug enforcement, other half 140 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 4: was in homicide investigations and work a lot of murder cases, 141 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 4: too many. In fact, that's one thing about retirement I 142 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 4: really enjoy. I don't have to see that anymore. I 143 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 4: never wanted to see it, didn't like see it. I 144 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 4: hated it. But be quite frankly, I embraced the riddle. 145 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 4: You know, I think narcs. As drug enforcement officers, we 146 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:46,319 Speaker 4: were mouse runners. We chase their rats, we love the 147 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 4: cat and mouse. As homicide investigators, it's the riddle. We 148 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 4: embrace the riddle, and then we're God's angel to try 149 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 4: to help that victim it can't help themselves. But I 150 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:04,440 Speaker 4: think that, especially speaking from me with that view of 151 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 4: both sides, working narcotics in the view of working homicide, 152 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 4: the common denominator has been and still is today drugs. 153 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 4: And that's why I still believe it's just as important 154 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 4: today as it was back then, especially in the context 155 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 4: of what we're experiencing throughout the state and the country 156 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 4: with gangs. You're gonna work gangs. Let me tell you 157 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 4: the simple, basic, fundamental way to do it. 158 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 2: Drug enforcement one hundred percent. 159 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: I cannot tell you how many crime scenes I've been 160 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: on homicide scenes where the victim is laying on a 161 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: crack bag, or there's a need on next to them, 162 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 1: or there's some type of connection with them and the killer, 163 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: and drugs are the factor. And when you're talking about 164 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: street gangs, they're running guns, they're running prostitution, and it's 165 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:56,439 Speaker 1: all based from drugs. They need the guns to further 166 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 1: the drug business. That's what they're trying to do. Prostitution 167 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: is just way to me to launder their money, but 168 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 1: it is. 169 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 2: It's absolutely druggs. 170 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 1: And if you do drug enforcement, you're going to reduce 171 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 1: street gang at the very level. Do you have any 172 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: notable cases that you want to mention, like things that 173 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:15,079 Speaker 1: you worked on in Georgia. 174 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:19,679 Speaker 4: Well, they're all important, they're all notable. You know, when 175 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:21,840 Speaker 4: you talk about cases, The thing that comes to my 176 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 4: mind the relationships that were built through those cases. And 177 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 4: I think of many many cases where we had federal 178 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 4: and local partners that those relationships. You know, I know, 179 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 4: some of the biggest drug cases that people give me 180 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:41,719 Speaker 4: credit for, I get Dake credit for. I have to 181 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 4: credit a local policeman in Molti, Georgia. His name was 182 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 4: Paul Boyd, and Paul's with the Lord now, But I 183 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,840 Speaker 4: mean he was, hey, one of a kind guy that 184 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:55,560 Speaker 4: ran toward work one thousand miles an hour at a 185 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:59,079 Speaker 4: heart as big as alliance. You know, he would go 186 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 4: and work and then use my undercover and I don't 187 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 4: want to use the term experise, but my. 188 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 3: Undercover capacity to further what he did. 189 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 4: And you know, I can always think of those relationships, 190 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 4: and I think about and of course Lauterville and you 191 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 4: know that's probably I don't know, that's the second largest 192 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 4: mass murder in the state. And I remember the whole 193 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 4: GBI team effort with Liberty County and the disc Attorney's 194 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 4: office there. And there's so many relationships that I think 195 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 4: we gain through work in those notable cases that people 196 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 4: always bring up, you know, the mass murder of the 197 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:44,719 Speaker 4: huge drug deal. I think of the relationships. If that makes. 198 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:46,439 Speaker 2: Sense, it makes perfect sense. 199 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:48,199 Speaker 1: And you know, I've had a chance to work with 200 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 1: the GBI in my career multiple times. One was Operational 201 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 1: Weed and Seed where Jim Birch was in charge of 202 00:11:55,600 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 1: that for us. My favorite memory with Jim was it 203 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 1: was Christmas Eve and he had gotten some toys together 204 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: and we went into Zone three Atlanta and gave toys out. 205 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: That's probably one of my greatest Christmas memories. 206 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 4: The greatest book I've ever read is three thousand years 207 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 4: old and it has no revision. And the key to 208 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 4: that book the leadership part of that, and it gets 209 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 4: defeat watching is about what you're talking about. Jim Birch's 210 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 4: servant heart, the line heart, servant hearts that we have 211 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 4: in this profession. And with that servant heart comes that authentic, 212 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 4: genuine purpose, meaning and care. 213 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 3: We give a damn about everything. 214 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: Yes, indeed, and you know, I think it's important that 215 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 1: I kind of throw this in the best advice I've 216 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: ever been given in this business came from Jim Birch, 217 00:12:56,240 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 1: and I was maybe twenty one, and he said, write 218 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: down everything you love right now. If it's walt if 219 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: it's dogs, if it's dancing, if it's playing tennis, if 220 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: it's fishing, if it's traveling, spending time with your sisters. 221 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 1: Whatever he said, be as honest on paper as you 222 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: possibly can. How often do you do those things? How 223 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: often do you visit with friends and you know, go 224 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 1: on a day trip with Walt, or go and have 225 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:33,319 Speaker 1: a weekend with your sisters. Write that down the minute 226 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 1: that you start to see that that's changing, do something 227 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:43,719 Speaker 1: about it, don't wait. And I folded that paper up 228 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 1: and put it in my wallet like you told me to, 229 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: in my purse, and every now and then, about every 230 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: six months or a year, I'd look at it just 231 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:52,959 Speaker 1: to make sure, Hey, I still love movies, I'm still 232 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,680 Speaker 1: doing the things that I love to do. So you 233 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 1: don't get off track, so that you can, you know, 234 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:01,959 Speaker 1: make those corrective moves if you start to see you're 235 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 1: going down a you know, a negative path, so to speak. 236 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: So there's not enough I can say about him, But 237 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 1: there's not enough I can say about you either. I 238 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 1: talked to Danielle recently down in Statesboro. Nothing but love 239 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: and respect and admiration for you. And every single person 240 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 1: that I mentioned your name to has the same thing. 241 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 1: Down to earth, honest, shoot from the hip, going to 242 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: tell you straight, going to help you out. The first 243 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: person to call you back. Everybody that's how they see you. 244 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: And when you talk about those relationships, it is so important. 245 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: And here's what one person said about you when you 246 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: were leaving as the special Agent in charge. You said 247 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 1: in the newspaper, even the person coming is going to 248 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: do great. They've got some things that they're gonna be 249 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 1: able to do that you know, it's time for me 250 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: to go. But everybody there said, he's only a phone 251 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 1: call away. 252 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 4: You know, I still try to do that, and that's 253 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 4: still you know, I'm too old to be leading the 254 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 4: Peace Offs Association and doing that job I need to 255 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 4: be doing. I need to concentrate on a few thing 256 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 4: instead of doing so many things. But what keeps me 257 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 4: there and what keeps me people say why don't you 258 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 4: go hunt and fish, is because if I can do 259 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 4: one thing to help somebody, then that's worth my day. So, 260 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 4: you know, again, just like Jim Bircher, as many of 261 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 4: the other people you've talked about, and I think it's 262 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 4: the profession's all. 263 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 3: That's what we do. I mean, we help others. 264 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 1: When you were working undercover, especially as such a young person, 265 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: and maybe you weren't aware of it as an eighteen 266 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: year old young man. But that had to have craft 267 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 1: the way your personal life was lived. 268 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 4: Well, you know, in those days, we didn't have a 269 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 4: personal life in those days. You know when you look 270 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 4: at the old contract agents and Jim with though he 271 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 4: was one of Marty's on John Willis, I mean I 272 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 4: could go down the list, Lynn Brooks or Lynn Herndon, 273 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 4: I go down the list. I mean that's what we did. 274 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 4: We were out of town two weeks at a time. 275 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 4: We'd come back in be All for three or four days. 276 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 4: Back out of town and we were on our own. 277 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 4: You didn't have cover teams back then, so you really 278 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 4: had a you had a close knit group of folks. 279 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 4: It pretty much lived professional lives all the time. We 280 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 4: didn't have and this is a bad thing to say, 281 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 4: but it's so true. In those days, we didn't have 282 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 4: time for personal life. 283 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 1: And again that would craft the way you see things 284 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: like I'm going to give this job my all. I'm 285 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: going to do everything I can to keep people safer, 286 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 1: like you said, get this poison off the street, to 287 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 1: try to save some children's lives. 288 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 2: And then when you did get. 289 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: Into a position where you were going to marry, you 290 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: know surely that stayed with you. As far as the 291 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: loyalty and the I'm going to put things first in order, well. 292 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:04,879 Speaker 3: I think the loyalty does now. 293 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 4: One of my partners a guy named Tom Davis, again 294 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 4: the prince of a police officer, and we're very best friends, 295 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 4: still are to this day, and we often talk about 296 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 4: how when we have children and change things, and marriage 297 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:23,119 Speaker 4: changes things. It does, you're exactly right about that, But 298 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 4: when you have those children, that changes things. You know, 299 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 4: we were always the first open the door. We'd get 300 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 4: mad if we couldn't be the first one to go 301 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 4: through a door on a search warrant. And after we 302 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 4: had kids got I say, you know somebody else wants 303 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 4: to go. That's altogether fit improper. So I think at 304 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:44,120 Speaker 4: different stages of life, different responsibilities of life and police work, 305 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 4: you change, and as you get older, you change, and 306 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:50,680 Speaker 4: I think a lot of that comes with with wisdom. 307 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 4: And then if there's one thing I could say to 308 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:57,439 Speaker 4: citizens that I really wish they would just kind of 309 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 4: like when I read the Book of Proverbs. Times I'll 310 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 4: read a proverb and I'll chew on it. It takes 311 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:04,679 Speaker 4: me three or four days really get the essence of it. 312 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 4: Now I like the saying with this what I'm fixing 313 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:12,479 Speaker 4: to take. Police officers see people at their absolute worst, 314 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 4: and there's a lot of times the average citizen will 315 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 4: go years and ever experience that. The reason we understand 316 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,399 Speaker 4: noncompliance is because we have to deal with it in 317 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 4: the worst of contexts, and people's citizens, thank god, don't 318 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:30,400 Speaker 4: have to deal with that all the time. And I 319 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 4: think in the long run, we see so much of that, 320 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:38,919 Speaker 4: we inherit a certain fatigue and we get tired, and 321 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,439 Speaker 4: that tiringess although it doesn't change our sense of purpose, 322 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:45,640 Speaker 4: our sense of meaning, and I don't know that if 323 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 4: I can find the proper word, but it tempers our 324 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:52,160 Speaker 4: aggressiveness and if there's a way, you know that someone 325 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 4: else wants to take that role and let the jet 326 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,640 Speaker 4: engine go wide open and we kind of put behind them. 327 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,720 Speaker 4: Still love profession. I know many of old agents, old 328 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 4: city officers, debities of proof. It doesn't matter where it's 329 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:11,199 Speaker 4: just effective and efficient or more. I'd argue more when 330 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 4: they're older, Aim. 331 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 1: I don't think you could have said that any better. 332 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 1: And what I am hoping is that every single young 333 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,360 Speaker 1: officer and young detective that is listening to you today 334 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,680 Speaker 1: can take this wisdom because that's what it is, and 335 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,479 Speaker 1: understand that, yes, I can ask for help. And in 336 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:35,200 Speaker 1: some ways, I would even argue the more confident you are, 337 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 1: the easier it should be to ask for help. Almost like, hey, 338 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 1: I know I'm going to solve this thing. I know 339 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:43,640 Speaker 1: I'm the best detective. But you've got a piece of equipment, 340 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 1: bring it over here. I mean, that's just the way 341 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:52,160 Speaker 1: I think people should work. And those relationships, that's what 342 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 1: you're doing. I mean, once you invite somebody to help you, 343 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:57,639 Speaker 1: then maybe you're starting a friendship that y'all are going 344 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 1: to go on and solve twenty more cases together. 345 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,359 Speaker 4: Well, you bring up a great point, and I have 346 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,879 Speaker 4: to talk about another legend and hero in Southeast Georgia, 347 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 4: Johnny mcglamery. A lot of people don't know the first 348 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:13,399 Speaker 4: regional GBI office in the state of Georgia was at Statesburg. 349 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:18,399 Speaker 4: The first modern GBI director when it left Apartment of 350 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:23,400 Speaker 4: Public Safety was Bill Beardsley. He was a college professor 351 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 4: at George Southern College. Then Jimmy Carter selected him to 352 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:31,360 Speaker 4: be the director of the GBI. To leave states When 353 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:35,159 Speaker 4: come to Atlanta and run the GBI. Johnny mcglamory was 354 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,639 Speaker 4: a suit of his at Statesburg in the LAA program 355 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 4: back then that was a program where the federal government 356 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:43,919 Speaker 4: paid for your tuition to go to college. And he 357 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 4: selected Johnny As to be the first senior agent Bullet 358 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 4: County put together and build a GBI office. So that's 359 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 4: kind of have the stars in the course that came 360 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:57,119 Speaker 4: together in states Performer over the years agent there, they 361 00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,199 Speaker 4: didn't want to leave because of Johnny's supervision, Johnny's work, 362 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 4: and it goes back to this relational engineering you're talking about. 363 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 3: And I remember I always wanted to come home. 364 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:08,680 Speaker 4: I want to go stay for and when I finally 365 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 4: was able to do it and finally come home, what 366 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,640 Speaker 4: I found. If we had a murder case, we all went. 367 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 4: We all went as a group. And Johnny was famous 368 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:22,440 Speaker 4: for something I talk about in my books in my lectures, 369 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:26,640 Speaker 4: and it's a British term, but it's an excellent term, mosaicing. 370 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 4: And everybody sees things different, everybody perceives it, and everybody 371 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 4: creates different ideas. And that mosaicing that I think in 372 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 4: at last work, a lot officers call it briefing each other, 373 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,679 Speaker 4: meet with each other, but it's that interplay and that 374 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:47,880 Speaker 4: interaction of those relationships with information that solved so many cases. 375 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 3: We know academically and practically as. 376 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 4: Well, the first forty dead hours of a homicide case 377 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:57,919 Speaker 4: is absolutely critical and there's no room for error, and 378 00:21:58,000 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 4: it's got to be done right. 379 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:01,640 Speaker 3: That's I wrote this last homicide book. 380 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,439 Speaker 4: I was in the middle of my second novel and 381 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 4: threw the novel down to write this book because so 382 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 4: many I'm not being with anybody, but so many of 383 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:16,120 Speaker 4: our younger officers have been thrown into the jobs without 384 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 4: the benefit of that mosaicing process. 385 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:23,880 Speaker 3: And it's that I credit that to so much. 386 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:26,199 Speaker 4: It goes right back to the spirit of what I call, 387 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 4: for lack of better term, for relational engineering. 388 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 1: I love that and I am going to incorporate that 389 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 1: into my DIE tribe now when I start talking to 390 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:34,959 Speaker 1: younger people. 391 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:36,480 Speaker 2: But I tell you another thing. 392 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 1: We used to socially get together all the time, and 393 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: I don't see that as much as the way we 394 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 1: used to do it. The younger officers, I mean, they 395 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,159 Speaker 1: just don't. When the shift is over, they all go 396 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: their separate ways. Where we used to go to dinner 397 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:54,159 Speaker 1: or go to a bar or both. 398 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 3: Well, well, I'm go. 399 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:58,920 Speaker 4: I call it quiet practice and you know, yeah, And 400 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 4: we had a club bar in Atlanta and hate but 401 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 4: it's called My Brother's Place. And I never forget when 402 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 4: when I went to statement Talap squad, they said, we 403 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 4: meet us at my Brother's place. 404 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:10,440 Speaker 3: I said, well, who's your brother? I don't know. 405 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 4: It's a bar. And it was over on off Virginia Avenue. 406 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 4: At that time, the GBI head quarters was in the 407 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 4: old del The building, the AIC building, and you have 408 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 4: my Brother's Place. And then of course in later times, 409 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 4: we had Fitzgerald's Downtown everybody went to and uh, you know, 410 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 4: that was you did. You would go in the evening 411 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,639 Speaker 4: and you would have several drinks with your friends and 412 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:37,359 Speaker 4: talk and fellowship and so much came from that and 413 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:41,399 Speaker 4: that fraternity was built on that. And then I asked 414 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,960 Speaker 4: one of my sons, I said, you know, why don't 415 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 4: y'all get together like we used to do? And I say, 416 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:51,400 Speaker 4: you know, the Internet changed everything, daddy, and it has. 417 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 4: They do get together now, it's just in a different way, 418 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 4: much different than what we did. 419 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, we used to go to manuals and we would 420 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,679 Speaker 1: call it Zone seven. And that's the reason I call 421 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 1: this podcast Zone seven Bring my own Zone seven. So 422 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 1: normally it's somebody that I've known and trusted in respect. 423 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 1: And here's how we're going to, you know, go through 424 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 1: a case with somebody that I know I can absolutely 425 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 1: one hundred percent count on. 426 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,439 Speaker 4: Well, I've had a many of an adult beverage in 427 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 4: a manual. 428 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 1: Tavern and I'm telling you it's some of the best 429 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 1: training I ever had, some of the best advice real world. 430 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 2: Here it is. 431 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:26,479 Speaker 1: I know this is what the SOP says, but this 432 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 1: is what you better be aware of. 433 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 2: I mean, it's just straight up good. 434 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:32,119 Speaker 3: The magic mind. 435 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:36,440 Speaker 4: What you're saying is it has it has inherentitibility because 436 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 4: in that context, you know, people ask me all the 437 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:43,200 Speaker 4: time in the in the academic issues, they say, why 438 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 4: do you call yourself a pracademic instead of an academic? 439 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:50,639 Speaker 4: I said, number one, because when you're a prackademic in 440 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:51,960 Speaker 4: this foremost. 441 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 3: Coin practice pracademic. 442 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 4: I credit it to Renee Mitchell and the bunch of 443 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 4: professors at the American Association Evidence Based polasing. They used that, 444 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 4: but being pre academics, those professors inherit more credibility because 445 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 4: the law enforce officers to go their classes say, you 446 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:13,199 Speaker 4: know you've done there and you've been there with me, 447 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,200 Speaker 4: and I think that's that's exactly what you're saying. 448 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 2: Absolutely. 449 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: So you mentioned a second ago about your books, and 450 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,360 Speaker 1: it like you just like you said, you didn't retire 451 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 1: got on the Riverbank vision. 452 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 2: So let's talk about your books. 453 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:33,360 Speaker 3: The first book was through an IACP. 454 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 4: It's kind of conglomerate with Thompson West or abag Or. 455 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,919 Speaker 4: It was fine, and I did it because really it 456 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 4: was the thing to do at the time. But I 457 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 4: did not like the fact that I couldn't I couldn't 458 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 4: put what I wanted in it. I didn't like the 459 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 4: fact that if I wanted to use stuff, I had 460 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,479 Speaker 4: to get permission and all that. So I had been asked, 461 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 4: and I can't remember the date, but I was asked 462 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 4: to go down to the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center. 463 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,200 Speaker 4: As Chief Devity Sheriff, I'd been blessed to be able 464 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 4: to get a lot of federal grants. I'd written several 465 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:12,400 Speaker 4: grants and we created intellates lived policing situation. Our Sheriff's 466 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 4: office at bj really got into and awarded it and 467 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 4: it led to more grant money. And they asked me 468 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,680 Speaker 4: to go down there to do a little speech on 469 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 4: the intellis Left Policing program. And I carried my wife 470 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 4: with him because Anita goes to me everywhere I go. 471 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,160 Speaker 4: I had problems with leg braces and she helps him 472 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 4: with that and helps with other things. And they wouldn't 473 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:35,480 Speaker 4: let her stay at Flee Tech, so we had to 474 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:39,399 Speaker 4: stay at the Bill House then in Brunswick out of 475 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,440 Speaker 4: the end, and I went down to have a couple 476 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 4: of Martins that night and the guy came up to 477 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,480 Speaker 4: the bar and talking to me and introduced himself and 478 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 4: I introduced myself and he said, well, I'm former cop, 479 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 4: I'm a novelist. Now I live on Sea Island and 480 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,159 Speaker 4: we're going to know each other. Name was George Schuman, 481 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:59,639 Speaker 4: and he was written numerous novels, one best seller. And 482 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:03,160 Speaker 4: he said, have you ever thought about independently publishing with Amazon? 483 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,639 Speaker 4: And I said, no, never have. And he said you 484 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 4: need to look at that, because then you write what 485 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 4: you won't, you edit like you won't, you do it 486 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 4: like you won't, and if you want to give the 487 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 4: books away, you can do it and you just you 488 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,879 Speaker 4: cost the printing. So that's the genesis for how burden 489 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,160 Speaker 4: of Command. My first my first book and on police 490 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 4: leadership came about and I was able to produce it 491 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 4: at a price of baptis, size of a twelve pack, 492 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,879 Speaker 4: and able to really handle it. Now that anything was 493 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:35,920 Speaker 4: not what I would like, but I learned. And then 494 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 4: later on came the speculation about me writing a book 495 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 4: on homicide. And what happened the plague The virus came 496 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 4: and we were doing Burne Command class we still do 497 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 4: all the country, and we were just did a contract 498 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 4: with the Texas Department of Public Safety. We're fixing to you. 499 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,719 Speaker 4: We went to Austin and done the Rangers and we 500 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:00,080 Speaker 4: were going to start going around the. 501 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:00,680 Speaker 3: State of tanks. 502 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,399 Speaker 4: We were working with Hide and working up up north, 503 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,920 Speaker 4: and the virus came to Anita taught me into She says, 504 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,159 Speaker 4: you need to write a novel. So I got to 505 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 4: think about all the old days and stuff, and I 506 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 4: wanted to think what when I So I thought about, 507 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 4: you know, Macintosh County like no other county in the 508 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 4: state of Georgia, and you know I worked for years 509 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 4: and the GBI be and I thought that I don't 510 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:28,720 Speaker 4: want to talk about stuff that people can so I 511 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:30,639 Speaker 4: said I'll do a fictional account, and I said, you 512 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 4: know what I said. I remember as a young boy 513 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 4: haadling my grandmama and Aunt Nao in a boat and 514 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 4: they were fishing and having a little biker and I remember, 515 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 4: now Joe's talked and you meant earlier my grandmother was 516 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 4: a female share and what they went through as females. 517 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 3: I remember her badge. 518 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 4: She was the high share for the county, now elected 519 00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 4: in nineteen forty, and her badge read Missus Rogers. 520 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 3: And you know, I thought, here's the high sheriff. Got 521 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 3: the deputy's name on the back. Well, nineteen seventy, I 522 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 3: want to think eight. 523 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 4: When I walked into the state narcotics squad, there was 524 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 4: a guy looked like the pictures in the Church of 525 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 4: Christ in the long hair, and I thought, my gosh, 526 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 4: he looks like in the church picture walking there's another 527 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 4: guy with here. It looked like Charlie Manson. Scared me 528 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 4: and the boss said, when here's your new partner. 529 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 3: And it comes this blond, beautiful young girl, and she says, 530 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 3: get ready. 531 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 4: We go into South Georgia and we left outside the 532 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 4: GBA headquarters, went by the package store. She got a 533 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:42,200 Speaker 4: bottle of liquor, took the gap off, throw of that 534 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 4: at the window, said we'll drinking this on the way. 535 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 4: So that was my introduct and she was an outstanding agent. 536 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 3: One of the best I've ever worked with. 537 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 4: Her name was Lynn Herndon, and then Chris Robertson who 538 00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 4: later kirised Chris Ash later came the second director in 539 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 4: the GBI number two. She was one of those female's agents, 540 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 4: Kathy rig Dinning's with the Lord now another one. I 541 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 4: can go down the list and name those poor group, 542 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 4: and about four of them of female agents, and budd 543 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 4: it's with them, and I could hear about the things, 544 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,080 Speaker 4: you know, they went through anything. And just Jerry Long 545 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 4: with the Savannah Police Department, just a fabulous friend, and 546 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 4: I heard her tales. But he went through Mary lou 547 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 4: Pool at Liberty County. The seventies was rough on female officers. 548 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 4: So I thought, you know what, if I'm gonna write 549 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 4: a novel, let me write it from the female perspective. 550 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 4: So that was born Somebody over the Marshes and it's 551 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 4: a crime drammer, murder thriller written from the female's perspective. 552 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 4: And I had no idea it would say like it 553 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 4: I had no idea. People want it like it. Anita 554 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:57,200 Speaker 4: told me, my wife, Nina, you got to write another novel. Well, 555 00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 4: we were in North Carolina. We had been invited by 556 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,720 Speaker 4: the North Carolin of Homicide Association to talk on several 557 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 4: concepts that I created. I was at the hostcatteroon that 558 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 4: night after I spoke, and I was told all these 559 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 4: young ulcers had no idea of the concept. I never 560 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 4: heard of them for And we were coming back home 561 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 4: from Ashville, and I told me that, I said, I've 562 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 4: got I've got to quit, right, Niece, Now, I gotta 563 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 4: get I gotta write a homicide book. Well, that's how 564 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:27,479 Speaker 4: homicide Practice was born. It was taking the things that 565 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 4: I took for granted that a lot of these young 566 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:33,080 Speaker 4: officers just didn't know that they not had the mentorship, 567 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 4: they not had the uh you know. They taught them 568 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 4: what post mortem levinity was, and they taught them what, 569 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 4: you know, what the wounds looked like, but nobody had 570 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,240 Speaker 4: taught them how to damn investigate, how to get off 571 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 4: your tail and go knock on doors. So that book 572 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 4: was born. The second novel, fourth book, Darkness under the Oaks, 573 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,880 Speaker 4: which is the story of organized crime in Savannah, Georgia, 574 00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 4: and it's a police murder mister thriller. So that's my passion. 575 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 3: Now. I love to write. 576 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:07,520 Speaker 4: And I'm working on a third novel now, Whims Through 577 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,600 Speaker 4: the Pines, and it's about Long and Liberty County, Georgia 578 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 4: and crime. 579 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 3: That's kind of where my books are. 580 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 1: I just want to let everybody know, go get these books. 581 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 1: They are going to change the way you see police, 582 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: and not just in the South but period. And for 583 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:27,960 Speaker 1: you young officers, get the Homicide Book. Because I don't think 584 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 1: this can be overstated. We have had for the last 585 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 1: several years, any department that you can think of has 586 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 1: officers that they need to hire. They have vacancies they 587 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:44,400 Speaker 1: can't fill. So sometimes now we're seeing people get promoted faster. Well, 588 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 1: you may have a sergeant that's got six months more 589 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 1: on the job than you. Well, he can't be too 590 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 1: much of a mentor then, so you've got to search 591 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 1: out these folks that know. And this is Taylor made. 592 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 1: I mean it's written for you. Get the book, Learn 593 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 1: the job. I want to talk a little bit about 594 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 1: your grandmama. June twenty fourth, nineteen forty, Miss Josie May 595 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:15,200 Speaker 1: becomes sheriff. 596 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 2: Talk a little bit about her. 597 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,120 Speaker 4: Her daddy, Jess Durrance, was the high sheriff for quite 598 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 4: some time and she took care of his affairs. She 599 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,200 Speaker 4: did his administrative stuff. She was just that type of 600 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 4: daughter that ran toward work. 601 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 3: Well. 602 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 4: When he died, he died in office. The probate judge 603 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 4: appointed her. Well, she knew the job. She'd been doing 604 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 4: a lot of what you know, the sheriff did all 605 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 4: the administration. And my Joe was very independent woman, and 606 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,960 Speaker 4: she said, you know, I can do this job. So 607 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,760 Speaker 4: she decided to run for sheriff. And where she's different 608 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,360 Speaker 4: now because I did some research on this and have 609 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 4: found this be the case. She's the first elected female shiff. 610 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,720 Speaker 4: A lot of female shares earlier appointed. It was a 611 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 4: regular thing when the husband died. I want the wife, 612 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,319 Speaker 4: give her a salary till we can elect somebody. Not 613 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 4: so am I Joe. When she was appointed, she ran 614 00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:16,360 Speaker 4: and she beat two men in rural Evans County, and 615 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:21,120 Speaker 4: she ran as a Republican and beat the Democrat and independent. 616 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,080 Speaker 4: Now two men and that was and they were not 617 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 4: just they were big family names in the county. Now, 618 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 4: little disclaimer here at that time in history, the Edwardses 619 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:35,080 Speaker 4: were into everybody, and she was a durance. It's what 620 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,480 Speaker 4: she was when the edwards Is and Durant, same family 621 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:41,759 Speaker 4: down here, into everybody. But the men that she ran 622 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:46,080 Speaker 4: against were deloxious and Ethen's that were into everybody. 623 00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:46,879 Speaker 3: So I mean, it just. 624 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:50,759 Speaker 4: Says a lot for a woman in nineteen forty to 625 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 4: be elected. Now he was mean, she wasn't scared of 626 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:58,560 Speaker 4: a thing. She shot gotten Webber, who was a bad 627 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,879 Speaker 4: guy at the time, in the head. He escaped from 628 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 4: the jail there and pushed her down, and she carried 629 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,719 Speaker 4: a thirty two lemon squeezer and carried a thirty eight 630 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,840 Speaker 4: and she pulled the pistol and shot hit him in 631 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,560 Speaker 4: the back of the head, and about the grace of God, 632 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:15,600 Speaker 4: it didn't go in. It circled us with You know, 633 00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 4: thirty two is not that strong around, and of course 634 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:21,440 Speaker 4: you never know what the bullet's gonna do. But I 635 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,759 Speaker 4: mean that got her a lot of mileage on don't 636 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,680 Speaker 4: mess with miss Joseph May She'll shoot you. The thing 637 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 4: that resonates for me, though, is before she died, we 638 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:34,880 Speaker 4: talked about the chef and I said, my Joe, what 639 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,200 Speaker 4: was it like back then, And she said, what much 640 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:39,880 Speaker 4: to that? She said, you know, we have a cutting 641 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:41,799 Speaker 4: at the bloody bucket every once in a while. We'd 642 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,319 Speaker 4: have little Cali rustling. I'm having a deal with the 643 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,239 Speaker 4: moonshiner from time to time, and a three or three 644 00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:49,759 Speaker 4: thieves say steal a cow or something. She said, but 645 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,960 Speaker 4: about all that was cood. Honore Akins, the old sheriff 646 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,320 Speaker 4: of Bullet County, was there thirty something years. I remember 647 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,719 Speaker 4: about five years ago before he died. Asked the same thing. 648 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:01,399 Speaker 4: He said, JB. 649 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:03,560 Speaker 3: He said, it's a different world. 650 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:05,720 Speaker 4: He says, you know, when I first got to be sheriff, 651 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,000 Speaker 4: we dealt with just law and force in civil process. 652 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,279 Speaker 4: He said, Today young got a booger, and those that 653 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 4: call the sheriff, he says, it's policing. Today's about families 654 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:17,760 Speaker 4: not dealing with their own problem. 655 00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,720 Speaker 1: One of my favorite stories about her is she didn't 656 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,719 Speaker 1: carry a gun on her hip, but she would tell 657 00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 1: people that I carried my thirty eight in my purse. 658 00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,239 Speaker 4: That's right, Yeah, she did too. She had a lemon 659 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,239 Speaker 4: squeeze or too, but most time and she had a 660 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:34,600 Speaker 4: thirty eight in a purse. And she also had a 661 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 4: busy club in a bar, handcuffs and she was an 662 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:45,360 Speaker 4: known for being feisty. And Papa, who was her defty, 663 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:50,200 Speaker 4: he got shot from them mat and Riese what escaped 664 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:52,680 Speaker 4: the mate And I think, and she never told me this, 665 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:55,759 Speaker 4: but at that time in history, you didn't have I 666 00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:58,600 Speaker 4: ninety five and I seventy five. You had three one 667 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:04,560 Speaker 4: us one, and the fiftiesd come about. And she left 668 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:06,680 Speaker 4: the sheriff offices, not only because I think I ought 669 00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:10,440 Speaker 4: to put up with that, but the gentlemen and ladies 670 00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:13,440 Speaker 4: from the north, the snowbirds, were coming through. And she 671 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:15,480 Speaker 4: opened up a restaurant on three oh one, and my 672 00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,439 Speaker 4: dad had a service station right across from it, and 673 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:22,400 Speaker 4: they did really well with the tourism industry until I 674 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:26,960 Speaker 4: ninety five, you know, destroyed it. But at that restaurant, 675 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:29,200 Speaker 4: I was My Mama helped wait on tables there, and 676 00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:33,880 Speaker 4: I was raised in that restaurant in the lapse of troopers, 677 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:38,840 Speaker 4: State troopers, revenue agents, GBA agents, city police, deputy stairs. 678 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:41,719 Speaker 4: So that's another reason, I mean, I always knew what 679 00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,719 Speaker 4: I wanted to be because that's where you know, I 680 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,719 Speaker 4: was raised, and my Joe had seemed to that well. 681 00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:50,200 Speaker 1: I told y'all he had law enforcement in his DNA, 682 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:55,160 Speaker 1: and let me tell you it is deep in the bloodline. 683 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,200 Speaker 1: Let's talk about your two sons and your wife. 684 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:04,120 Speaker 4: This JB is assistant disc attorney in the Geechee Circuit 685 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,680 Speaker 4: at Statesboro, and he's that's all he wants to do. 686 00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:13,360 Speaker 4: He does not want to have no ambition whatsoever to 687 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:16,800 Speaker 4: go in private practice. Has been offered several jobs, and 688 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:20,600 Speaker 4: he just he wants to be the prosecutor, career prosecutor. 689 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:27,680 Speaker 4: And my son Mac got elected sheriff at twenty eight 690 00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,640 Speaker 4: years of age in our county and he continues to 691 00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,640 Speaker 4: this day to be the sheriff down here. And that's 692 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,759 Speaker 4: that's his passion. He's always wanted to be sheriff. And 693 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:41,840 Speaker 4: of course I had questioned it because of the you know, 694 00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:46,320 Speaker 4: but he put his mind to it and he works 695 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:48,920 Speaker 4: hard to do that job. And then in need of 696 00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:52,760 Speaker 4: my wife, she was with Juvenile Justice back then Court 697 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:56,799 Speaker 4: Services for years and it just got to the point 698 00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,360 Speaker 4: where two of us being on call, we couldn't we 699 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:01,640 Speaker 4: couldn't vote the time to our children that we wanted 700 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:05,480 Speaker 4: to do. And as a result, she made the decision 701 00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:08,760 Speaker 4: to lead Court services and go with the school system 702 00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:13,040 Speaker 4: where I could stay, well where I needed to stay 703 00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:16,200 Speaker 4: at the time. That was a joint decision, mutually made 704 00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:17,000 Speaker 4: and agree to by. 705 00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:17,520 Speaker 3: The both of them. 706 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,640 Speaker 1: Well, I don't think there's any question that it's a 707 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:24,680 Speaker 1: family that everybody has a servant's heart. 708 00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:28,640 Speaker 2: Y'all all are helping people. You continue to help people 709 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:29,800 Speaker 2: in every aspect. 710 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:33,160 Speaker 1: I know what your wife is about working with children 711 00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:36,359 Speaker 1: that sometimes don't have anybody else fighting for them. Your 712 00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:37,839 Speaker 1: two sons are doing the same thing. 713 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:40,160 Speaker 4: Well, there's a bunch of us now, you know, on 714 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:44,040 Speaker 4: the DJJ board. I mean, I can't say enough about 715 00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:47,319 Speaker 4: DJJ and how they all work to try to help. 716 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:50,440 Speaker 4: Then you know, I'm out here with the POG and 717 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:53,880 Speaker 4: you know we represent every police officer with the oldest 718 00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:57,880 Speaker 4: and largest association in the state of Georgia, a peace officer, 719 00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:03,560 Speaker 4: and we do everything we can because of the turbulence, 720 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,600 Speaker 4: I didn't go through what these officers are going to today, 721 00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:11,120 Speaker 4: and my heart bleeds for all the servant hearts out 722 00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:15,719 Speaker 4: there today that are in these contrary wins based on 723 00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:22,759 Speaker 4: absolute unadult rated bs and you know, and they don't 724 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:25,799 Speaker 4: get me wrong, Wait, let me put it to you 725 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,239 Speaker 4: this way. I was at a big I was at 726 00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:31,360 Speaker 4: a book finding the other day and I had a 727 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,640 Speaker 4: gentleman's stand up and says, you know, mister Edwards, we 728 00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:37,239 Speaker 4: have some problems in police work and bad aucers. And 729 00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:40,040 Speaker 4: you saw on the video of this, and I said absolutely, 730 00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:43,600 Speaker 4: And I said, you know, no excuse. He needs to 731 00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:46,640 Speaker 4: be you know, punished and all that. And said, well, 732 00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:48,799 Speaker 4: you know what is the biggest problem with reforming What 733 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:50,879 Speaker 4: is the biggest problem in police work in America today, 734 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:54,200 Speaker 4: miss Edwards? And I said, the biggest problem we have 735 00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,600 Speaker 4: in police work today and have always had, is that 736 00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:00,279 Speaker 4: we're forced to recruit. 737 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:03,320 Speaker 3: Hiring staff from the human race. 738 00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:06,800 Speaker 4: And I think if you look at doctor's, lawyers, anybody else, 739 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:08,640 Speaker 4: they're under that same umbrella. 740 00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:12,440 Speaker 1: Well, there you have it, sir. I cannot thank you 741 00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:14,960 Speaker 1: enough for being with me. I can't thank you enough 742 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,680 Speaker 1: for taking my calls. I can't thank you enough for 743 00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:19,920 Speaker 1: being somebody that I can admire. 744 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:23,080 Speaker 2: And look up to and call what I needed boss. 745 00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:24,120 Speaker 3: I mean, my rose minimal. 746 00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:27,440 Speaker 4: I'm uponing a great, big game of chess, but I 747 00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:29,520 Speaker 4: just try to move forward and what the Good Lord 748 00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:31,680 Speaker 4: wants me to do. And you brought up something so 749 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:36,680 Speaker 4: true I'm the blessed one because I treasure the friendships 750 00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:39,320 Speaker 4: and I have. There's one hundred and fifty nine counties 751 00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:41,279 Speaker 4: in the state of Georgia. I've worked and been in 752 00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:43,200 Speaker 4: every one of them, and I've got friends in every 753 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,200 Speaker 4: one of them, and I just that's something you can 754 00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:49,920 Speaker 4: you can't put a price on. Here's those relationships and 755 00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:53,400 Speaker 4: those friendships I have been. The Lord has put me 756 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:57,279 Speaker 4: at the right place at the right time, and I'm 757 00:41:57,320 --> 00:41:57,960 Speaker 4: the blessed one. 758 00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:00,319 Speaker 3: And it's going to be with you and. 759 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:01,880 Speaker 4: What you do and trying to for the good of 760 00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:05,319 Speaker 4: order that you do whatever I can do to contribute. 761 00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:07,360 Speaker 3: I'm honored, y'all. 762 00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:09,720 Speaker 1: I'll get to end Zone seven the way I always 763 00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,680 Speaker 1: do with a quote. I had gone through a near 764 00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,960 Speaker 1: death experience, and that gives you insight into how fleeting 765 00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:24,320 Speaker 1: life is and to what's important. Frank Cerperco, I'm Cheryl McCollum, 766 00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:26,000 Speaker 1: and this is Zone seven.