WEBVTT - Trump Attacks Amazon for Hurting U.S. Post Office

0:00:03.480 --> 0:00:07.560
<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the Bloomberg Law Podcast. I'm June Grosso. Every

0:00:07.640 --> 0:00:10.440
<v Speaker 1>day we bring you insight and analysis into the most

0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:13.440
<v Speaker 1>important legal news of the day. You can find more

0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:18.000
<v Speaker 1>episodes of the Bloomberg Law Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud

0:00:18.320 --> 0:00:22.640
<v Speaker 1>and on Bloomberg dot com slash podcasts. Is President Trump

0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:25.840
<v Speaker 1>escalating his long running feud with Amazon and its founder

0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:29.440
<v Speaker 1>Jeff Bezos, who also owns a Washington Post. Trump continued

0:00:29.520 --> 0:00:32.080
<v Speaker 1>his Twitter war this morning. Over the weekend, he tweeted

0:00:32.120 --> 0:00:35.519
<v Speaker 1>that Amazon must pay real costs and taxes now and

0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:39.000
<v Speaker 1>that this post office scam must stop. Amazon has said

0:00:39.000 --> 0:00:42.320
<v Speaker 1>the Postal Service, which has financial problems stretching back for years,

0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:45.479
<v Speaker 1>makes money on its deliveries, joining me as Robert Hocketed,

0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:48.920
<v Speaker 1>professor at Cornell Law School, Bob, the full details of

0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:52.720
<v Speaker 1>the agreement between Amazon and the US Postal Service are

0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:56.760
<v Speaker 1>not known because the postal service makes confidential deals with retailers.

0:00:56.800 --> 0:00:59.520
<v Speaker 1>So what do we know about it? We don't know

0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:01.560
<v Speaker 1>a great ill, June. I mean, we know a couple

0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:05.080
<v Speaker 1>of things. Right. Apparently post Office does indeed come out

0:01:05.080 --> 0:01:07.280
<v Speaker 1>ahead out of the deal with Amazon, which is to

0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:10.039
<v Speaker 1>say it's in the black, right It the costs that

0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:12.880
<v Speaker 1>it incurs in shipping Amazon things are less than the

0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:15.119
<v Speaker 1>revenue that it generates. We also know that the Post

0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:19.000
<v Speaker 1>Office offers similar deals for all package shipments. It's not

0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:21.920
<v Speaker 1>Amazon specific, and that, of course leads me to think

0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:24.360
<v Speaker 1>that this isn't really about Amazon at all. This is

0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:28.520
<v Speaker 1>probably more about the Washingtington Post and Jeff Bezos. Let's

0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:32.199
<v Speaker 1>talk about taxes, which it's apt month to talk about.

0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:36.520
<v Speaker 1>Jax is Amazon page fifties seven million dollars in taxes

0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:39.639
<v Speaker 1>last year. It collects them everywhere that has a state

0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:43.360
<v Speaker 1>sales tax. In most states, it doesn't collect taxes on

0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:46.600
<v Speaker 1>the products that third party vendors sell through the site.

0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:50.720
<v Speaker 1>Is it acting completely legally? It is acting quite legally.

0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:53.320
<v Speaker 1>There's nothing that's scammy about it unless there's a scam

0:01:53.360 --> 0:01:55.320
<v Speaker 1>in the tax code, And of course I would be

0:01:55.360 --> 0:01:57.680
<v Speaker 1>prepared to countenance that um and I wish that the

0:01:57.720 --> 0:02:00.320
<v Speaker 1>President were prepared to countenance that there's a huge scam

0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:01.840
<v Speaker 1>in the tax code as well. But he seems to

0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:04.960
<v Speaker 1>have put or to have acted quite actively to put

0:02:05.040 --> 0:02:08.600
<v Speaker 1>some of additional scams into the tax code this past December,

0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:12.680
<v Speaker 1>and there's a Supreme Court case pending a ruling in

0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:17.360
<v Speaker 1>that case involving online retailers collecting sales taxes. Could that

0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:21.280
<v Speaker 1>have an impact on Amazon's collection of taxes? Well, in

0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:24.480
<v Speaker 1>theory it could. It really just depends on what, you know,

0:02:24.480 --> 0:02:27.440
<v Speaker 1>what how the court goes about interpreting the tax code

0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:30.800
<v Speaker 1>itself here, and that's of course a notoriously convoluted code.

0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:33.760
<v Speaker 1>It's difficult for people to interpret, and the tax lawyers

0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:36.679
<v Speaker 1>and judges with expertise and tax law are often thought

0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:40.200
<v Speaker 1>of as being eccentric precisely because they're able to sort

0:02:40.240 --> 0:02:42.680
<v Speaker 1>of know the facts of their hands, uh, these very

0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:45.000
<v Speaker 1>convoluted rules, and then of course the regulations that are

0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:47.960
<v Speaker 1>promulgated under them. So there might be some effect, but

0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:50.160
<v Speaker 1>bess far right. As far as we know right now,

0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:52.160
<v Speaker 1>the dominant understanding of the tax tode and what it

0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:55.800
<v Speaker 1>requires is such as to show that Amazon is indeed

0:02:55.800 --> 0:02:58.440
<v Speaker 1>in compliance with tax law. Hence, if there's a scam

0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:01.720
<v Speaker 1>going on, that is in the law itself, not an

0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:04.960
<v Speaker 1>Amazon's use of that law. It's also ironic, I have

0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:07.200
<v Speaker 1>to say, right, because people have often noted that Trump

0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:10.480
<v Speaker 1>himself has declared bankruptcy multiple times and taken advantage of

0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:13.280
<v Speaker 1>that and his retort is always well, the bankruptcy Code

0:03:13.280 --> 0:03:15.519
<v Speaker 1>allows that. So I have simply taken advantage of the

0:03:15.600 --> 0:03:17.920
<v Speaker 1>law and what it allows me, and Amazon can rejoin

0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:22.280
<v Speaker 1>with the same reply to Trump on this one. Let's

0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:25.920
<v Speaker 1>let's discuss what Trump could do about Amazon if he

0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:29.400
<v Speaker 1>decided to take the fight beyond the tweets. Could he

0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:35.200
<v Speaker 1>push for regulatory investigations of Amazon, either for antitrust, privacy,

0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:38.720
<v Speaker 1>or other reasons. He could I mean, in theory, he

0:03:38.760 --> 0:03:41.200
<v Speaker 1>could direct the Justice Department to conduct some sort of

0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:43.840
<v Speaker 1>an inquiry or some sort of an inquest. The problem

0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:46.000
<v Speaker 1>is that if this is simply based on his whim

0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:48.400
<v Speaker 1>or on his sort of personal animus toward Bazos or

0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:50.600
<v Speaker 1>the post Um, He's going to get himself in trouble

0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:53.000
<v Speaker 1>because of course this will look like delicious prosecution on

0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:55.040
<v Speaker 1>the part of the Justice Department. Uh, and then will

0:03:55.080 --> 0:03:58.560
<v Speaker 1>of course reinforce growing perceptions that this man is treating

0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:00.600
<v Speaker 1>the White House and the President see as a kind

0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:02.720
<v Speaker 1>of personal play thing to sort of carry out his

0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:07.360
<v Speaker 1>various personal vendettas and to align his personal offers. Well,

0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:10.160
<v Speaker 1>we know that there's a case going on right now

0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:14.880
<v Speaker 1>where the Justice Department is suing and it's an unorthodox

0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:18.080
<v Speaker 1>kind of suit for an antitrust suit attacking the A.

0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:20.880
<v Speaker 1>T and T Time Warner deal, and that was after

0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:25.159
<v Speaker 1>Trump's criticism of the deal and CNN, which is owned

0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:27.800
<v Speaker 1>by Time Warner. But the judge is not allowing that in.

0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:32.400
<v Speaker 1>So it's already shown that it can take an orthodox step.

0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:36.240
<v Speaker 1>So might it do that here? I mean it could happen, right,

0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:38.479
<v Speaker 1>it could. But again, what's sort of go on here

0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:41.440
<v Speaker 1>is you know, I'm down with if I can put

0:04:41.440 --> 0:04:43.520
<v Speaker 1>it in that kind of skipster way, I'm I'm down

0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:46.200
<v Speaker 1>with getting serious about anti trust law again. And it

0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:48.800
<v Speaker 1>would be wonderfully being a good news if it looked

0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:51.480
<v Speaker 1>like Trump himself. We're interested in this in a kind

0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:53.080
<v Speaker 1>of an across the board way, in the kind of

0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:56.000
<v Speaker 1>a general principled way. But if you're just sort of

0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:59.839
<v Speaker 1>selectively targeting people who happened to be your personal enemies

0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:04.680
<v Speaker 1>for antitrust investigations or tax violation investigations and so quick,

0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:08.160
<v Speaker 1>all while your own companies and multiple other companies are

0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:11.359
<v Speaker 1>doing exactly what Amazon has been doing, and exactly what

0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:13.880
<v Speaker 1>Time Warner has been doing, and exactly what all of

0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:16.800
<v Speaker 1>these other large firms that are currently being investigated are doing.

0:05:17.160 --> 0:05:19.240
<v Speaker 1>Then it begins to make it begins to make it

0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:20.720
<v Speaker 1>look like this is not a case of the rule

0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:23.280
<v Speaker 1>of law. This is a case of again somebody who's

0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:25.960
<v Speaker 1>governing by women and on the basis of personal animus.

0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:30.919
<v Speaker 1>So let's let's turn to what again, what he could do?

0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:35.120
<v Speaker 1>What the president could do. Brad Parscal, who's managing Trump's

0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:39.359
<v Speaker 1>presidential campaign, said in a tweet last Thursday, once the

0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:43.560
<v Speaker 1>market figures out that a single USPS rule change will

0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:47.719
<v Speaker 1>crush Amazon's bottom line, we will see who raises the

0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:52.080
<v Speaker 1>post Office rates. Well, that's determined by the Postal, the

0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:55.440
<v Speaker 1>Post Office board itself. The president could have some influence

0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:58.479
<v Speaker 1>on that, right. I mean, it's not an altogether sort

0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:02.640
<v Speaker 1>of untethered agency. It is. It's a federal instrumentality. Um.

0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:04.640
<v Speaker 1>And that's another thing I kind of wanted to point

0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:07.440
<v Speaker 1>out earlier is I thought, well, if your concern is

0:06:07.480 --> 0:06:10.760
<v Speaker 1>that the Post Office is in charging Amazon enough, perhaps

0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:13.000
<v Speaker 1>there should be an inquiry into why the Post Office

0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:15.640
<v Speaker 1>is charging it so little, and indeed why it's charging

0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:18.719
<v Speaker 1>all it's so little for all package deliveries. My understanding

0:06:18.800 --> 0:06:21.160
<v Speaker 1>is that it charges about half to Amazon and other

0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:25.520
<v Speaker 1>package delivers what UPS, FedEx and other such shipping agencies do.

0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:27.560
<v Speaker 1>What if it were to raise the rates up to

0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:30.440
<v Speaker 1>three quarters of what those other firms do, that it

0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:32.719
<v Speaker 1>would seem to me would keep the post office in

0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:34.880
<v Speaker 1>the black and still make it a better value for

0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:37.560
<v Speaker 1>the shippers uh than fed X or UPS or any

0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:42.080
<v Speaker 1>other competing private delivery service. Another thing is the stock market.

0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:47.080
<v Speaker 1>Amazon is down um more than four today and plunged

0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:52.200
<v Speaker 1>uh last week, so after an Axios report that the

0:06:52.240 --> 0:06:56.040
<v Speaker 1>President was quote obsessed with regulating the company. So this

0:06:56.160 --> 0:06:59.719
<v Speaker 1>is also taking you know, hitting his his stock market

0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:03.440
<v Speaker 1>bread rights. It is uh, it does do that, But

0:07:03.480 --> 0:07:06.480
<v Speaker 1>on the other hand, it also of course diminishes the

0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:09.640
<v Speaker 1>size of Jeff bezos portfolio, right, And my understanding is

0:07:09.640 --> 0:07:12.520
<v Speaker 1>that Mr Bezos has lost something like four to ten

0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:16.400
<v Speaker 1>billion dollars in recent days from his portfolio thanks to

0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:18.880
<v Speaker 1>his Amazon holding was taking a hit. And my guess

0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:21.760
<v Speaker 1>was it would be that Trump maybe derives more pleasure

0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:25.120
<v Speaker 1>from knowing that Mr bezos Is portfolio is dropping, then

0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:28.720
<v Speaker 1>he takes pain that he finds pain in the suffering

0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:31.360
<v Speaker 1>that the tex Stalks as a whole are enduring as

0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:35.440
<v Speaker 1>a result of these uh strange and obsessive tweets. So

0:07:35.640 --> 0:07:40.480
<v Speaker 1>let's just go bottom line here, Bob, that seconds left.

0:07:41.320 --> 0:07:44.520
<v Speaker 1>What what in your view will come of this? Will

0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:47.560
<v Speaker 1>just it just be another round of tweets and that's it.

0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:51.160
<v Speaker 1>Will anything really come of this? I think some I

0:07:51.160 --> 0:07:53.040
<v Speaker 1>think there will be more fall out in the sense

0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:55.440
<v Speaker 1>that there will be more gickering back and forth between

0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:59.960
<v Speaker 1>Trump and Bezos or Trump and Amazon um and maybe,

0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:02.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, Bezos will say something nice about Trump, or

0:08:02.840 --> 0:08:04.600
<v Speaker 1>will Cow tow in some way and then it'll all

0:08:04.640 --> 0:08:07.320
<v Speaker 1>go away, or Mr Bezos will sort of stand up

0:08:07.320 --> 0:08:09.880
<v Speaker 1>for his company and for himself, and this could end

0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:13.280
<v Speaker 1>up into you know, this could sert culminate in protracted litigation.

0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:16.320
<v Speaker 1>He's taking on a pretty powerful enemy this time, so

0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:19.800
<v Speaker 1>many forty times richer than he is. So I'm quite

0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:23.320
<v Speaker 1>interested to see how that plays out. Will we will

0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:26.160
<v Speaker 1>talk more about that as it goes along, if if

0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:29.680
<v Speaker 1>there's any more to these, any more tweets coming. That's

0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:36.120
<v Speaker 1>Bob Hocket. He's a professor at Cornell Law School. The

0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:40.480
<v Speaker 1>Environmental Protection Agency already has concluded that Obama era fuel

0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:44.079
<v Speaker 1>economy standards aimed at slashing greenhouse gas emissions are too

0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:48.120
<v Speaker 1>aggressive and need to be revised. Agency officials brief California

0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:51.560
<v Speaker 1>regulators on their conclusion last week as they put the

0:08:51.559 --> 0:08:54.800
<v Speaker 1>final touches on a document justifying the decision to roll

0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:58.600
<v Speaker 1>back automobile gas mileage and pollution standards. According to people

0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:01.959
<v Speaker 1>familiar with the discussions, e p A Administrator Scott Prude

0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:05.080
<v Speaker 1>is expected to formally announce the move tomorrow during an

0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:08.640
<v Speaker 1>event at a Virginia car dealership. My guest is Charles Warren,

0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:11.920
<v Speaker 1>head of the environmental law practice at Kramer levinef Talas

0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:15.439
<v Speaker 1>and Frankel. Chuck tell us about the changes the Trump

0:09:15.480 --> 0:09:20.440
<v Speaker 1>administration is going to propose to the Obama rules. Well,

0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:27.880
<v Speaker 1>the Obama rule June is in effect really requires by

0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:32.760
<v Speaker 1>that you have fuel economy getting fifty four point five

0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:37.040
<v Speaker 1>miles per gallon, which is for cars and light trucks,

0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:40.160
<v Speaker 1>and that's, you know, roughly double what it was at

0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:45.840
<v Speaker 1>the beginning of the Obama administration. And there they're supposed

0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:49.680
<v Speaker 1>to be a mid course correction look at it which

0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:54.200
<v Speaker 1>was done started to be done in and the Obama

0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:56.840
<v Speaker 1>administration then basically said we're not going to do anything. Now.

0:09:56.880 --> 0:10:03.360
<v Speaker 1>The Trump administration for the years twenty they now want

0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:08.439
<v Speaker 1>to roll those back and not even not even to

0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:13.760
<v Speaker 1>not not even anywhere near fifty four, and you know,

0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:16.880
<v Speaker 1>it may be closer to what it is in which

0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:20.240
<v Speaker 1>is like thirty eight or even below that. And so

0:10:20.280 --> 0:10:24.559
<v Speaker 1>they're trying to really turn the clock back quite a

0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:30.000
<v Speaker 1>bit on this and it's going to have obviously many repercussions,

0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:34.840
<v Speaker 1>particularly with the California waiver in place. Right. Let's talk

0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:38.360
<v Speaker 1>about the California waiver because that allows California to set

0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:42.920
<v Speaker 1>its own pollution and gas mileage standards and other states

0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:45.400
<v Speaker 1>follow that, and the state a G has already said

0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:48.240
<v Speaker 1>that the state is going to resist any changes. So

0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:52.320
<v Speaker 1>can we expect a long legal battle here? Yes? Here,

0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:56.720
<v Speaker 1>here's the problem for the automakers actually, and that's why

0:10:56.720 --> 0:10:59.000
<v Speaker 1>they're getting a little more than they bargained for with

0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:04.600
<v Speaker 1>this aggressive attempt to roll back the Obama fuel economy standards.

0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:08.120
<v Speaker 1>California has a waiver that's been in the Clean Air

0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:12.760
<v Speaker 1>X since seventy two, and the waivers have been granted

0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:15.360
<v Speaker 1>and they're allowed to set their own standards, as you indicated,

0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:18.319
<v Speaker 1>and other states can follow the California standards if they

0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:21.720
<v Speaker 1>follow them exactly. And they're about twelve states that follow that,

0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:24.120
<v Speaker 1>and those states if you look at them, you know,

0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:30.320
<v Speaker 1>they're like New York, Pennsylvania, bunch of other pretty big states. Uh.

0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:33.680
<v Speaker 1>They account for about thirty five cent of the cars

0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:37.920
<v Speaker 1>made in the United States. So if nothing else happens

0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:42.400
<v Speaker 1>and they roll back the federal standards and the California

0:11:42.480 --> 0:11:45.280
<v Speaker 1>standards stay in place, then the auto industry is going

0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:47.880
<v Speaker 1>to be faced with making two different kinds of cars,

0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:50.000
<v Speaker 1>which they hate. They're not gonna want to do that,

0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:52.800
<v Speaker 1>and so what it means they're gonna have to follow

0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:55.920
<v Speaker 1>the California standards as as a practical matter, They're not

0:11:55.960 --> 0:12:01.120
<v Speaker 1>gonna want to have a car marketed below the California standards.

0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:06.280
<v Speaker 1>So the what what will happen if it plays out,

0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:11.120
<v Speaker 1>is that the administration might try and challenge the California

0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:14.160
<v Speaker 1>waiver which is in place until and there will be

0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:18.240
<v Speaker 1>a titanic battle on that and Chuck, how long would

0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:22.840
<v Speaker 1>it take for the e p A to propose new rules,

0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:25.520
<v Speaker 1>have hearings, and do all the different things that need

0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:29.120
<v Speaker 1>that are needed for a change. Yeah, they have you know,

0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:33.280
<v Speaker 1>they they're going to say that the standards to twenty

0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:35.080
<v Speaker 1>five are not appropriate, but then they do have to

0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:38.679
<v Speaker 1>go through a whole rulemaking process and have a common period,

0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:41.520
<v Speaker 1>and that will be challenged and this could be any

0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:44.280
<v Speaker 1>a number of months, quite a few months before that

0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:47.760
<v Speaker 1>would happen. And meanwhile, you know, you you have lead

0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:51.840
<v Speaker 1>times for the auto industry and uh, they'll they'll be

0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:54.680
<v Speaker 1>faced at some point with a deadline where they have

0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:58.080
<v Speaker 1>to then say, Okay, we have to start manufacturing cars

0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:00.840
<v Speaker 1>and we're gonna have to contin in you, you know,

0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:04.480
<v Speaker 1>with the California standards. That's and that's my sim So

0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:08.439
<v Speaker 1>it's gonna be it's gonna be messy, very messy, exactly.

0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:12.320
<v Speaker 1>And I think the the industry asked for some relief,

0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:14.680
<v Speaker 1>but I don't think they wanted to go as far

0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:17.960
<v Speaker 1>as the Trump administration is taking it. They just wanted

0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:21.559
<v Speaker 1>the way you calculate the standards to be a little

0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:24.000
<v Speaker 1>more leeway so that when they had some of these

0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:26.840
<v Speaker 1>SUVs and other things, they would be easier to meet

0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:29.640
<v Speaker 1>those standards. But they really didn't want a wholesale roll

0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:32.800
<v Speaker 1>back to the kind of levels that the administration is

0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:36.120
<v Speaker 1>talking about because I think it makes them look bad

0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:39.320
<v Speaker 1>because a lot of these companies have said, we're on

0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:43.319
<v Speaker 1>board on fuel economy, we want to know, push electric cars, etcetera.

0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:46.880
<v Speaker 1>And so I think it puts them in a difficult positions.

0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:50.559
<v Speaker 1>It's speaking about difficult positions the e p A chief,

0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:53.320
<v Speaker 1>Scott Prue, it has come under more criticism. There were

0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:56.079
<v Speaker 1>disclosures about his use of first class flights to travel

0:13:56.120 --> 0:13:58.360
<v Speaker 1>around the world, trips to Italy, and now there are

0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:02.120
<v Speaker 1>disclosures about this lee sing of a Washington apartment in

0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:05.720
<v Speaker 1>a very unusual terms from a lobbyist. Do you think

0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:11.400
<v Speaker 1>he can survive this latest disclosure? Well, these are the

0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:15.160
<v Speaker 1>kinds of disclosures that usually have resulted in people losing

0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:18.679
<v Speaker 1>their jobs because the public takes a dim view of

0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:22.240
<v Speaker 1>people in high office sort of abusing their position to

0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:25.560
<v Speaker 1>make these kinds of special deals and that other people

0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:30.160
<v Speaker 1>can't get um. But Scott Pruett has been someone who's

0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:33.600
<v Speaker 1>been very in sync with THEE what the Trump administration

0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:37.800
<v Speaker 1>wants to happen. And it's possible that he could survive

0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:42.320
<v Speaker 1>because he's doing everything that the Trump administration wants him

0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:45.440
<v Speaker 1>to do and is pushing very aggressively to do that.

0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:49.320
<v Speaker 1>So I think it's a question of maybe if enough

0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:52.680
<v Speaker 1>stuff keeps piling up that hill have gone too far.

0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:57.080
<v Speaker 1>But so far he seems to be surviving. I've heard

0:14:57.280 --> 0:15:00.120
<v Speaker 1>something incredible. I mean that he traveled with third the

0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:04.960
<v Speaker 1>thirty in his protection detail, thirty people, and um, there's

0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:06.920
<v Speaker 1>there's been a lot coming out, so but we will

0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:10.360
<v Speaker 1>keep apprized of what's going on. And thank you so

0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:13.720
<v Speaker 1>much Chuck for being on the show. That's Chuck Kramer.

0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:16.760
<v Speaker 1>He's the head of the environmental law practice at Kramer eleven.

0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:19.960
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Law Podcast. You can

0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:23.760
<v Speaker 1>subscribe and listen to the show on Apple podcast, SoundCloud,

0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:27.720
<v Speaker 1>and on Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. I'm June Brosso.

0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:29.480
<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg