WEBVTT - Gen Z Workers and America's Needed Real Estate Bust 0:00:01.240 --> 0:00:05.039 You're listening to the Bloomberg Opinion podcast. Catch us Saturdays 0:00:05.080 --> 0:00:08.240 at one and seven pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, 0:00:08.280 --> 0:00:11.440 the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business App, or listen 0:00:11.480 --> 0:00:16.880 on demand wherever you get your podcast. Welcome to Bloomberg Opinion. 0:00:17.000 --> 0:00:20.000 I'm Amy Morris. This week, we take a closer look 0:00:20.040 --> 0:00:23.959 at the political divisions around Donald Trump's legal complications. Plus 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:26.680 we're going to take a deep dive into the debate 0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:29.920 over the abortion pill, and we're gonna look at who 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:34.680 isn't returning to the workforce post pandemic. Let's get started. 0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:38.040 The Federal Reserve hiked rates for the ninth straight time. 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:41.680 FED Chair J Powell signaled their work might not be 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:45.560 done yet. We need to raise rates higher. We will, 0:00:45.880 --> 0:00:50.440 I think for now, though. We as I've mentioned, we 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:54.160 see the likelihood of credit tightening, and FED Chair Powell 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:57.040 says they don't expect to cut rates at all this year, 0:00:57.160 --> 0:01:00.960 despite turmoil within the banking industry. This says he assured 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:05.160 the public that regulatory action demonstrated safety in the banking 0:01:05.200 --> 0:01:09.000 system and that all depositors savings are safe. Treasury Secretary 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:12.360 Janet Yellen, however, struck a different tone on Capitol Hill 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:16.840 during a Senate hearing, and it's not considered or discussed 0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:23.920 anything having to do with blanket insurance or guarantees with points. 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:27.640 As Treasury Secretary Yellen says, the US is not considering 0:01:27.680 --> 0:01:32.240 those blanket deposit insurance without first working with Congress. Within 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:35.640 all of this turmoil in the banking sector, the commercial 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:38.800 real estate market has come into focus as another at 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:40.959 risk sector. Let's get into this a little bit more. 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:46.080 Bloomberg opinion columnists Connorsen, founder of Peachtree Creek Investments, joins 0:01:46.120 --> 0:01:49.120 me now and Connor. You argue in your column that 0:01:49.160 --> 0:01:52.600 the US could actually benefit from a real estate bust, 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:57.240 but a very specific type tell us about that, right, So, 0:01:57.360 --> 0:01:59.640 if you live in a community that has seen very 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:01.960 rapid increases in home prices over the past few years 0:02:02.440 --> 0:02:05.720 and has an above average meeting income, but you'd have 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:08.600 a lot of tired, old, dated sort of shopping centers 0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:11.440 and office buildings from maybe thirty or forty years ago, 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:13.520 this could be maybe not a good news for the 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:16.320 owner of the property, but good news for your community 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:20.240 as these properties can finally be redeveloped. So, but it 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:24.040 takes money to redevelop and will and strength and time 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:28.720 and effort. Is there enough of that leftover in space? Well, 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:31.280 so the bottom that holding back the redevelopment a lot 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:33.440 of these cases is that the market has said there's 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:35.919 a lot of demand for these communities, but the owners 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:37.959 of these buildings might have held on them for the 0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:40.640 variety of reasons. Maybe there were some kind of week 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:43.959 tenants who were still taying the rent. Maybe the building 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:46.160 was being financed at very low indust rates, and so 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:49.600 even if it was sort of performing mediocre, they were like, well, 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:51.920 the checks are still coming in, so it's fine. And 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:54.120 this is really the catalyst for the market saying, Okay, 0:02:54.120 --> 0:02:55.839 it's time for you hand over the keys. It's time 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:58.400 for somebody else to take a shot at this property, 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:01.000 and with the community to do so well, as evidenced 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:05.000 by incomes and home values, the markets saying that this 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:07.680 is a sort of right for redevelopment. Okay, let me 0:03:07.720 --> 0:03:10.519 get into a couple of things here. First, for clarification 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:12.800 for the audience, what is it you mean when you 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:16.560 say commercial property? So the most obvious would be if 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:19.480 sort of a dying or dead office park with a 0:03:19.480 --> 0:03:22.280 lot of surface parking, that's probably the most prime opportunity 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:25.359 for redevelopment, but also shopping centers in stunt cases as well, 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:28.640 where the shopping center could be several decades old, maybe 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:30.760 it's half full, maybe the tenants aren't so great, but 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:33.720 the surrounding community is really strong. Sort of these are 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:36.240 the sort of areas between higher interest rates and then 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:38.600 a client in the office market that are most interesting. 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:41.440 And how would a commercial property owner know when it 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:43.920 is time to let it go. Well, if the tenants 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:45.680 go away and there's no money coming in, that's a 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:47.560 good sign. Or if they have a loan coming do 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:49.800 maybe the loan on the property. If there's leverage on 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:52.960 it and it was financed during the low interest rate environment, 0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:55.800 now it's a much different interest environment, and if they 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:59.200 can't afford it, or the lender says we're not interested 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:02.920 in sort of offering you this opportunity. So there's sort 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:06.040 of two forcing functions here, and I think both will 0:04:06.080 --> 0:04:09.240 happen in a lot of cases. But not every place 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:12.720 is as prime for this. Not every place with a 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:15.000 vacant office building is going to be in a position 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:17.880 for redevelopment. What are some of the criteria, right, And 0:04:17.920 --> 0:04:20.640 so this is sort of a bit like the mall 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:23.520 discussion ten years ago. We were talking about dying malls 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:26.440 and dead malls, and that really wasn't the case, in 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:29.000 that a lot of malls are building fine, sort of 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:31.560 class A malls still doing well. It's really a function 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:34.080 of the surrounding community. Does the community have a lot 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:37.159 of people as a growing are the income strong? If so, 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:39.600 then there's always an opportunity to turn that into something 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:42.920 new or sort of a refreshed concept or redevelopment. If 0:04:42.960 --> 0:04:46.160 the surrounding community isn't doing well, then it's like anything else. 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:48.880 If it's a mall goes away or an office building 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:50.919 goes away, and you're less likely to see something happen 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:54.200 on that piece of lands. Are there any communities you 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:56.560 have in mind when you are thinking of this? You 0:04:57.120 --> 0:05:00.599 labeled a few in your column, right, So I'm in Atlanta, 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:02.560 so I can see it here that there was a 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:05.400 lot of population growth, in home price appreciation during the pandemic, 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:09.239 and out in the northern suburbs a lot of very old, 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:12.880 sort of uninteresting commercial real estate, and there's opportunities there. 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:15.920 I think Orange County, California, Northern New Jersey, probably in 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:19.120 northern Virginia, Dallas, just anywhere where there's been a lot 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:22.360 of sort of economic growth, but maybe an old, aging 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:25.640 commercial real estate footprint that was built thirty or forty 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:27.840 years ago. I'm going to throw you a bit of 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:31.039 a curveball here. You're in Atlanta, I'm in Washington, DC. 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:33.480 DC is unique in that a lot of those empty 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:36.480 buildings you refer to, they're owned by the federal government, 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:39.480 so it's not really commercial property, it's not really private property. 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:43.320 And there is a move afoot to encourage workers to 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:45.080 return to the office at least a few days a 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:48.320 week to get those buildings up and running and populated again. 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:52.479 But is that something that the federal government could also consider, 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:58.320 is just letting those buildings go absolutely and hopefully government 0:05:58.320 --> 0:06:00.000 probably works in the lag where you'll need to see 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:03.520 that movement happening in the private sector first. But there's 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:05.719 certainly a lot of interest in the sort of Washington 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:09.640 metro with increasing housing affordability and just more having in general, 0:06:09.760 --> 0:06:11.479 and so hopefully that is a way to sort of 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:14.520 tie two things together and convert some of that property 0:06:14.560 --> 0:06:18.440 into housing. You also talked about the home market, the 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:21.599 housing sector, and that you're seeing some optimism in the 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:24.520 housing sector. You mentioned this in one of your columns 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:27.280 on the Bloomberg terminal. Let's get into that a little 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:29.920 bit and how that's primed right now. It's a really 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:32.680 interesting time because with mortgage rates being so high, a 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:35.080 lot of homeowners who locked in mortgage rates during the 0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:38.240 pandemic at very low levels aren't interested in selling and 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:40.960 just will sit on their home their low mortgage rate. 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:44.480 And even though sort of buying demand is down because 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:48.440 of affordability issues and hire mortgage rates because there's no resilementory, 0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:51.679 the resilmentory levels remains very low. It's sort of pushing 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:54.080 people into the new home market and as results, creating 0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:57.440 a boom for homebuilders. And they're reporting pretty good earnings. 0:06:57.480 --> 0:07:00.279 The stocks are doing well even in this environment. And 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:02.440 I think you're going to see eclished home production, even 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:04.640 with mortgage rates to seven percent, just because there's so 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:07.760 little reci elements were in the market right now. Does 0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:10.640 that have anything to do with what we saw last summer? 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:14.280 Remember last summer, everybody was selling their home at the 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:18.360 asking right plus ten thousand plus twenty thousand. They were 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:22.040 getting ridiculous amounts for their homes. When they were putting 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:24.000 them on the market and they were selling before they 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:26.440 were even listed. It seemed like, is that sort of 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:29.440 a hangover from that? Yeah. That what happened was we 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:31.440 went from a really hot boom to a really cold 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:33.880 bust very quickly last year when mortgage rates went up 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:36.320 so much, and I think a lot of buyers sort 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:38.360 of took nine months off where mortgage rates had five 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:40.640 percent in the spring, they said, Okay, I'm done. I'll 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:42.400 come back next year and see what things look like. 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:44.920 And because you had nine months of the buyer demand 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:47.600 that didn't happen. They came into the market January and said, well, 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:49.800 for life reasons, I have to buy a house, and 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:52.640 there may be desperation buyers, and so they're looking at 0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:54.680 what's available and they're saying, there's nothing in the resil 0:07:54.760 --> 0:07:56.760 market for me. I guess that means I have to 0:07:56.760 --> 0:07:58.840 go to a home builder and get something new. And 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:00.920 they might not like the price, they might not like 0:08:01.560 --> 0:08:03.720 the selection, but when you need a house, you need 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:06.640 a house. In a lot of cases. I like that 0:08:06.680 --> 0:08:10.000 you talked about new construction, but it seems like that's 0:08:10.400 --> 0:08:13.440 a different animal only because you're having to deal with 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:16.960 labor shortages and material shortages and those are still an 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:20.760 issue or is that starting to clear up now? It's 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:22.800 starting to get better. And the home botherers have said 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:25.800 that the early stage of construction, so framing a home, 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:28.840 pouring the concrete, all that that's actually finally speeding up, 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:32.200 but the later part of the cycle, putting in finishings 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:35.440 and appliances and things like that, that's still backlogged. And 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:37.000 think if it's sort of like a pig going through 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:40.560 a python where because there was a slowdown and housing 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:43.439 starts about nine months ago, that early stage part of 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:45.640 the process has kind of cleared up, but the later 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:48.400 stage is still backlogged. But we should expect later in 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:50.320 the year that that late stage part of the process 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:52.640 will speed up as well and just really sort of 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:55.319 make things a lot easier for builders trying to build 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:58.679 and buyers trying to buy a home. Now, Connor, you've 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:01.040 been following this for quite some time, so when you 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:04.360 are looking at the commercial real estate market or even 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:07.840 the home sector, the home buying, the home building sector, 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:11.439 has it ever been quite this volatile or has this 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:14.080 sort of par for the course considering everything else the 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:16.480 economy has been going through over the past couple of years, 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:18.840 and we can all lay it at the doorstep of 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:22.600 the pandemic. It's a very strange environment because you have 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:25.200 the unemployment rate that's the lowest in fifty years, and 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:28.400 yet maybe the worst environment for office buildings in decade. 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:31.480 That's kind of weird. And then you have housing affordability 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:33.079 that buy a lot of measures is the worst it's 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:35.520 been in forty years. And yet home mothers are doing 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:37.920 well in this environment because we didn't build home through 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:40.560 a ten years. The sort of millennial generation isn't at 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:43.480 those years. We're buiking to buy homes, there's nothing to resell, 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:46.600 and it's pushing people into the building market. So when 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:48.439 you explain it, it it makes sense, but it just kind 0:09:48.440 --> 0:09:50.560 of weird from a macro standpoint because things are all 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:53.400 out stored. I want to circle back very briefly before 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:56.160 I let you go about the real estate bust that 0:09:56.200 --> 0:09:59.880 we started with, and how rebuilding and refinishing those comm 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:04.439 properties force use somewhere else, some way else could actually 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:06.760 be better for the community. Who are some of the 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:09.360 people who could benefit from that. I'm not sure if 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:11.840 they're enough developers who have the skill set and ability 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:14.360 and willingness and financing to do this. This might take 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:17.040 some time because there might be a lot more properties 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:20.120 turning over than there are developers willing to redevelop, and 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:22.480 so this process could take a while, especially if bank 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:24.040 credit is going to be tight for a bit. But 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:26.680 I think if you moved to a community, and maybe 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:28.840 you moved out there for family reasons or life reasons, 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:31.720 and you say, I love my neighborhood, I love my house, 0:10:31.800 --> 0:10:34.000 but we've got to get rid of these old buildings 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:36.679 that have are underutilized and haven't been used very well 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:39.320 for decades. This is finally the opportunity for you to 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:41.280 see your community turn into what you wanted to do. 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:45.199 Connerson is a Bloomberg Opinion columnist and founder of Peachtree 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:48.680 Creek Investments and coming up. The debate over the abortion 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:51.120 pill has put at least one pharmacy in a no 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:55.160 win situation. We'll look into that. You're listening to Bloomberg Opinion. 0:10:55.360 --> 0:10:59.439 You're listening to Bloomberg Opinion. I'm am Morris. Women's health advocates, 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:03.480 so small victory in the FDA decision to allow pharmacies 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:07.280 to dispense the abortion pill Mythopriss Stone. The day after 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:10.520 that decision, Walgreen's Boots Alliance was the first of the 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:13.440 big pharmacy owners to sign on CBS at Rite Aid 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:17.439 quickly followed, and then came the pushback. Vice President Kamala 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:22.120 Harris reacted to this. It is FDA approved and was 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:25.800 approved twenty years of goal. This is not just an 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:29.440 attack on women's fundamental freedoms. It is an attack on 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:31.960 the very foundation of our public health system. All right, 0:11:32.040 --> 0:11:34.280 and for more on this, we bring in Bloomberg opinion 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:38.000 columnist Bethcoed. Now, at first glance, and you made this 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:41.880 point in your column. Walgreens, CBS and write Aid all 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:46.280 women run companies. But this got complicated quick bring us 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:51.440 up to speed, Yes, very quickly, got very complicated. In January, 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:55.080 these companies applied to get certified through this program. But 0:11:55.160 --> 0:11:59.000 then in February they received a letter from a group 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:03.520 of republic In state attorneys general that basically said it 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:06.679 was a warning, do not distribute in our states. There 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:12.560 will be letical ramifications if you do. Walgreens responds and says, 0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:15.400 you know, we don't have plans to distribute in your state, 0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:20.360 so you know, no problem. Basically that's when they started 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:22.480 getting pushback from the left. So we've already got the 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:24.320 pushback from the right, now we have the pushback from 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:28.600 the left. Basically what Kamala Harris said, you know that 0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:31.800 these drugs should be districted. It is legal that should 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:35.920 be distributed, and you know women need access to these pills. 0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:39.920 Is this simply a culture war or is that an oversimplification. 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:42.840 Is it more complicated than that. I think the culture 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:45.120 wars are definitely a piece at this, but there's a 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:47.760 lot more going on here right We are as a 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:52.320 country grappling with what a post row America looks like, 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:56.360 and I think this is changing every day. There's lots 0:12:56.360 --> 0:12:59.839 of legal cases going through the system right now that 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:02.360 we don't know how they're how they're going to resolve. 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:06.040 This is an issue that demands a lot of nuance. 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:08.360 It's very complicated, and this is all happening in a 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:12.360 time when nuance and you know, has got out the window. 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:15.200 So I do think that the culture wars are a 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:17.760 part of it, but this is really just a moment 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:21.400 of change in flux and it's super challenging to be 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:24.880 a company trying to navigate that. What is the biggest 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:28.160 challenge at this point for a company like Walgreens, because 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:31.440 it seems on the surface that if they just follow 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:34.040 the state and federal laws, they're covered. They're fine. Just 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:37.760 follow the law, one would think, right, But there's a 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:42.199 dispute about what does compliance mean. Right, So on some levels, 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:48.160 you know, well, legally FDA regulates drugs, so that should 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:52.480 trump everything. But however, you know, a company like Walgreens 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:55.640 really risks putting its staff in a terrible you know, 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:59.199 in a terrible position here right now. So if if 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:02.560 it's staff very stay law in some cases, they could 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:07.120 risk finds moving their license, jail time. So there's there's 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:09.800 real ramifications here. So you know, I think I think 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:12.360 that is the big question. What a state law, what 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:14.880 a federal law? Right now? That's you know, that's at 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:18.080 least state laws are changing, and you know what happens 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:21.280 when those things don't align, which is what we're really seeing. 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:26.920 Have you come across this yet, We're maybe staff at 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:30.880 Walgreens or CVS would have a moral objection to dispensing 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:34.280 such drugs. Is that an issue that comes up. We've 0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:37.600 definitely already seen this um and we've run into issues 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:38.920 and I you know, I'm not sure if this is 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:41.480 Walgreens specific. I think we have seen a couple examples 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:45.680 here where you know, harmacists have said they feel uncomfortable 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:48.440 distributing and it goes against their morals. You know, I 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:52.080 think that's a different, slightly different issue because that's sort 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:55.160 of their personal beliefs versus the law. So I do 0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:59.360 think this sort of takes it to another level here. 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:03.000 Are there any other drugs out there that have created 0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:06.000 this type of conflict or is it's just specifically this? 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:08.840 Are we in a whole new realm of how to 0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:13.120 distribute pharmaceutical medication. This has really become such a hot 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:18.400 fun issue because fifty percent of abortions, more than fifty 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:21.400 percent of abortions in this country, our medication abortions to 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:25.280 require these puzzles a huge deal. Anti abortion activists have 0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:27.840 said that this is where they're going to push, This 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:30.960 is going to be the next frontier. I think the 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:37.560 Bidens administration has really thought and pushed to widen access 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:42.680 here when when we did see the doc's decision overturned rows. 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:47.200 So I think that this has really taken this debate 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:51.640 to a whole new level, a granular level, definitely, and 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:55.960 it puts Walgreens in a pretty tough spot. But are 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:59.720 other pharmacies also dealing with this sort of no win situation. 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:04.600 They get pushed back from Republicans or Democrats, or pro 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:06.880 life or pro choice, depending on how you want to 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:10.520 categorize the people who are pushing So this is really 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:14.160 interesting that the reason that Walgreens has become central to 0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:19.400 this is because we know that their response to the 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:23.000 Republican state ages became public. We don't actually know what 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:26.400 CBS or writing said, if anything, and they have managed 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:30.280 to stay Studiously why it obs You can't really blame 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:34.120 them when you see what's happened to Walgreens. But what's 0:16:34.160 --> 0:16:36.800 interesting here is if you look at this, Walgreens has 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:42.120 not changed its position. When it applied for the program 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:44.480 back in January, it said you will follow state and 0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:47.600 federal law. I think where things have gotten messy is 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:50.920 actually in some of the reporting, because that even that 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:54.000 is a complicated issue, right, So some of the headlines 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:59.040 sort of said, you know, Walgreens won't distribute abortion pills 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:01.880 in states where they are legal, right, So technically that 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:05.439 is correct, okay, but it might be legal in the 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:07.280 state of worship pills may be legal in the state, 0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:09.880 but it might not be legal for wagerings to distribute 0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:12.640 them in the state because there's extra regulations that require 0:17:13.359 --> 0:17:16.960 a physician be present or that they're dispensed through a physician. 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:21.920 So even that is a very that even requires nuance there. 0:17:21.920 --> 0:17:25.440 It's it's not so simple. So what might come of this. 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:28.120 Is this a place where a company would stand up, 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:31.640 take a stand, fight back or no. I think this 0:17:31.760 --> 0:17:35.119 is the eternal question, right, It's it's a really, that 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:39.800 is a really. I think that's probably something they're debating internally. Um. 0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:43.200 You know, they are in the spotlight right now, people 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:46.440 are watching what they do. Um. I do think it's 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:50.440 worth noting that we have seen, you know, we've seen 0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:52.679 the drug store companies say they're going to apply for 0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:56.160 this program. So at least they are distributing in some plan. 0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:58.960 And also, to be clear, no one's distributing anything yet 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:01.400 right like they've been proved, so this is all sort 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:04.919 of if they are approved for this program. But the 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:11.040 big retailers Walmart, Albertson's, Costco, they all have pharmacy divisions 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:14.399 and they have not even applied for this program. So 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:16.119 I do think there is a little bit of a 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:20.520 double standard here where you know, why are critics so 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:24.120 focused on Walgreens, which is at least, you know, doing 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:26.520 something as opposed to some of these other companies that 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:30.640 we haven't even seen apply yet to distribute anywhere. Well, 0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:35.080 what should those who support the program, whether it be Democrats, 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:37.560 pro choices, however you want to categorize them, what should 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:41.399 they be doing at this point. I do think that, 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:43.600 and this is starting to happen, is to maybe put 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:45.520 some pressure on some of those companies we've not heard 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:48.480 from what is your plan? I think that makes it 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:51.320 easier for a Walgreens to not have to stand alone 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:55.800 on this. You know, they are really being targeted, but 0:18:55.840 --> 0:18:58.800 we don't really know where the other the other corporations 0:18:58.920 --> 0:19:00.320 where they are going to come out. And I do 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:05.119 think um lawmakers, Democratic lawmakers really saying you know, what 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:08.119 is what is your plans? These other companies sort of 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:10.560 makes it seem a little bit less like Walgreens is 0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:12.800 just hanging out over here, you know, on one side, 0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:16.640 and everybody else is on on the other. Um. So 0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:19.680 I really think that that I think that that is 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:23.560 sort of the next step before I let you go 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:26.240 how far is this going to go? I don't mean 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:30.159 just this particular issue, but we saw the overturner rov Wade. 0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:34.040 We see them now concerned about the pills being distributed 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:37.719 through pharmacies. What what is it? What's next? What does 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:41.560 this end? Oh? Gosh, um, I think this is this 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:44.320 is the beginning. I think you're right. I think there's 0:19:44.359 --> 0:19:46.000 a long way to go. Right now, there's a there's 0:19:46.040 --> 0:19:48.520 a case in Texas that could actually this might all 0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:50.280 be moved. Right there's a case going on in Texas 0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:55.600 right now that threatens to basically overturn the distribution of 0:19:55.960 --> 0:19:59.840 MEFO pristone nationally. Um. So again, this is just a 0:20:00.240 --> 0:20:05.440 moving target. We just don't have a clear vision yet 0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:09.760 of what again, the post row America looks like. And 0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:14.240 I think that's really honestly scary for a lot of people. Okay, 0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:16.040 Bethel to thank you for your time and thank you 0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:19.679 for watching this issue for us. Bloomberg opinion columnist beethco 0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:23.040 It covers corporate America and don't forget We are available 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:27.320 as a podcast on Apple, Spotify or your favorite podcast platform. 0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:30.880 Now stay with us. Coming up the latest legal entanglements 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:33.879 for former President Donald Trump and then look at the 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:38.439 gen Z workforce or the lack of one. This is 0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:42.679 Bloomberg opinion. This is Bloomberg opinion. I'm Amy Morris. We 0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:46.320 continue to follow the legal entanglements of former President Donald 0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:49.680 Trumps some issues that had cropped up, some even well 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:52.320 before he took the oath of office. And even though 0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:55.800 the Iowa caucuses and the New Hampshire primary are nearly 0:20:55.840 --> 0:20:59.159 a year away, we're already seeing members of the GOP 0:20:59.400 --> 0:21:03.080 start to who's their alliances. After President Trump encouraged his 0:21:03.200 --> 0:21:07.240 supporters to protest his potential arrest, House Speaker Kevin McCarthy 0:21:07.280 --> 0:21:09.960 says that's not exactly what he meant when someone says 0:21:09.960 --> 0:21:11.919 that they can protest, he would probably be referring to 0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:15.359 my tweet. Educate people about what's going on. He's not 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:18.640 talking in a harmful way, and nobody should. All. Let's 0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:21.959 bring in Bloomberg Opinion columnist Jonathan Bernstein. He focuses on 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:25.159 politics and policy. He joins me now, and Jonathan, I 0:21:25.160 --> 0:21:28.919 want to get into the divisions between the GOP over 0:21:29.119 --> 0:21:31.359