WEBVTT - John Doe & Exene Cervenka 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:12.800 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Steps podcast. 0:00:13.240 --> 0:00:16.640 My guests today are John Doe and the que Jervenka 0:00:16.840 --> 0:00:19.640 of the B and X, which just put out its 0:00:19.680 --> 0:00:23.560 final album and is on its final tour. How did 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:24.560 the two of you meet? 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:30.000 We met at a writing workshop in Venice, California called 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:33.120 Beyond Baroque, and Beyond Brokes still has writing workshops. It 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:38.320 has the largest small press library and is a great 0:00:38.360 --> 0:00:41.440 community service in Venice, California. 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:43.760 So why did you go to the writing workshop? 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:48.879 Because we're writers. I had a writing workshop in Baltimore. 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:52.000 It was part of a poetry series. I went to 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:56.840 school at Antioch College and Ecceine worked there, and I 0:00:56.880 --> 0:00:58.640 thought this would be a place that I could meet 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:01.400 like minded people in LA. When I moved. 0:01:02.000 --> 0:01:04.360 Were both living in Venice in nineteen seventy six, and 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:06.360 I got a job there, and so I lived upstairs 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:09.039 from the workshop and the library. I worked in the 0:01:09.040 --> 0:01:12.080 library and stuff, and so I just I just ventured 0:01:12.120 --> 0:01:14.680 down there one night to see if I could qualify 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:15.200 as a writer. 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:19.399 John, let's go back to Baltimore. What was it like 0:01:19.480 --> 0:01:20.800 growing up in Baltimore? 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:26.319 It was great as a young adult, I mean it 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:31.160 was the same I moved there, and when was it? 0:01:31.959 --> 0:01:37.720 Early mid sixties? But as a young adult I first 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:43.880 experienced a bohemian lifestyle in Fell's Point and was hanging 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:47.600 around with John Waters' crew because they would just going 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:50.680 to the same bars that I went into, and it 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:58.960 pointed the way to realize my dreams, except not in Baltimore. 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:03.120 Let's go back. So before you lived in Baltimore, you live. 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:07.600 Where Wisconsin, and before that in Tennessee and before that 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:10.440 in Illinois. Because my dad moved around. 0:02:11.240 --> 0:02:12.720 And why did your dad move around? 0:02:12.840 --> 0:02:15.800 Because he was a librarian and he wanted better jobs. 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:18.840 He was a librarian. What did your mother do? 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:23.280 She was school teacher? Well, she was a mom until 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:27.840 my brother and I were in school, and then she 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:32.600 became a school teacher and she became a school librarian. 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:35.959 So they were smart folks. 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:38.200 So who's older? You were? Your brother? 0:02:38.400 --> 0:02:38.880 My brother? 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:41.400 And so what's he up to? 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:45.960 He's a builder, he's retired. 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:51.240 Okay, So your father was a librarian. Were you a 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:52.600 big weader growing up? 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:56.560 Not really, No, I wanted to be outside and do things. 0:02:57.360 --> 0:02:59.919 They would bring home a stack of books for summer reading, 0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:03.560 and they would sit on my dresser. I did read 0:03:04.320 --> 0:03:09.600 Edgar Allan Poe sometime around the sixth or seventh grade. 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:12.160 And were you a good student? Bad student? 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:15.960 Pretty good? It was just about the same as what 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:17.240 I am now solid B. 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:22.040 You went to Antioch? Did you graduate? 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:25.399 Yeah? I quit school. I went to school for one 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:28.919 year in DC, and then I quit for a couple 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:32.959 of years, did construction, and then in Baltimore there was 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:38.520 a experimental theater that was called the Theater Project, and 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:40.920 I saw some performances there and thought they were pretty 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:44.880 outside and interesting, and then found out that Antioch had 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:53.200 a branch above a insurance company downtown Baltimore, and they 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:55.520 had a writing program, and I thought I'd been writing 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:58.440 and I wanted to be a better writer. So I 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:02.360 went back and yeah, I graduated. 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:06.040 And how'd you meet John Waters? 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:09.640 He was just hanging around and he was the biggest 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:11.160 celebrity in Baltimore at the time. 0:04:12.600 --> 0:04:16.440 Okay, well, Pink Flamingos came out in seventy four, so 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:20.160 he had some movies before them, really like No Traction, 0:04:20.279 --> 0:04:22.240 But in Baltimore everybody knew who he was. 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:27.640 Those two, those two others Mondo Trashow and Multiple Maniacs. 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:31.160 They had plenty of traction in Baltimore. There was a 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:34.080 there was a really heavy duty and not heavy duty. 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:39.119 There was a small but powerful bohemian underground art scene 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:43.760 in Baltimore. So everybody knew John Waters and New Divine 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:48.839 and knew although he didn't really hang out much, but 0:04:49.160 --> 0:04:51.920 Edie did, and so did David Lockery and so did 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:55.560 Mary Vivian Pierce and Mixtole and all them. 0:04:56.800 --> 0:04:58.880 And how did you decide he wanted to be a writer? 0:05:00.400 --> 0:05:03.920 Oh? I don't know. I was playing music and people 0:05:03.960 --> 0:05:07.640 wrote music along with just learning how to play. 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:10.480 And well, well, let's go back. When did you start 0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:11.240 to play music? 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:15.599 Oh God, are we going to go back to my childhood? 0:05:15.600 --> 0:05:16.560 And when I started working? 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:18.640 Absolutely no, I don't want to do that. 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:21.599 I might rather talk about the President of the future. 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:25.679 But I don't know. I played music because it seemed 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:27.400 like a cool thing. I mean, I'm at that age 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:33.080 when people saw the animals and the Beatles on ed 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:34.680 Sullivan and stuff like that. 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:38.760 And how'd you end up coming to California? 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:42.880 Because I didn't like the East Coast. I was tired 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:50.240 of the negative negativity and the weather. And I had 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:53.480 been to New York a few times saw the Talking 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:59.680 Heads and the Heartbreakers at Max's and CBGB's, and it 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:01.960 seems like that whole scene was great. But it was 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:05.080 pretty far down the road. 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:09.359 And you came to La. Where did you stay? How 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:11.720 much money did you bring? Hot? Would you get a job? 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:12.320 What'd you do? 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:19.479 I had a car, I brought some stuff, and I 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:22.520 lived in Venice with a friend, and I got a 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:26.480 job at Brentano's bookstore in Beverly Hills. 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:30.480 Okay, Excene, where are you from? 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:34.000 Well? I was born in Chicago, but when I was 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:37.120 a little, tiny infant, my family moved to rural Illinois, 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:38.360 so I grew up there. 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:41.200 And what did your parents do for a living? 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:46.240 My father had a very interesting life, but when I 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:51.760 was born, he was a carpenter and my mom stayed 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:55.040 home and lived in a very, very very small town. 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:57.400 And so my dad would go to work and I 0:06:57.440 --> 0:07:00.800 would play in my Irish fama. I lived with us 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:03.120 until I was in about third grade. 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:08.680 And then when did you get influenced by music? 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:12.880 Listening to the car radio when I was very very little. 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:17.800 My favorite song growing up was Hello Mary Lou by 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:20.480 Ricky Nelson on the radio. I really loved that song. 0:07:21.160 --> 0:07:24.120 But my big influence was well, of course, like John said, 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:26.680 you know, I was born in nineteen fifty six, so 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:30.720 I kind of missed the Halves Presley and the rockabilly stuff, 0:07:30.720 --> 0:07:32.680 but I was there for like the Beatles, and then 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:36.200 of course the British invasion and the Doors and all 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:37.920 that stuff. So I was pretty mind blowing. 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:42.240 And then how did you end up coming to California? 0:07:42.760 --> 0:07:45.800 Well, I was living in Florida, and I was kind 0:07:45.800 --> 0:07:47.720 of at the end of the road as far as options, 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:50.200 and I was living in Tallahassee and nineteen seventy six, 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:53.520 which pretty dead end there for a freaky person like me. 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:56.760 And so somebody called me out of the blue and 0:07:56.760 --> 0:08:00.240 said they were moving to California up San Francisco, and 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:04.400 did I want to go with him and give them 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:07.760 because they needed gas money. So I had two friends 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:09.600 out in southern California. I called one of them and 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:11.040 she said, sure, and you can come live with me. 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:13.760 And then she's the one that helped me find that 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:16.560 job at the ontt Earl where I met John. I 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:19.400 was only in Santa Monica there when I arrived for 0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:21.320 a couple of weeks before I got that job, and 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:22.920 That was only a couple of weeks before I met 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:24.920 John right after that. It was really quick. 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:27.720 How did you end up in Tallahassee. 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:31.440 Well, I was living in Saint Pete and I had 0:08:31.480 --> 0:08:35.760 a boyfriend and a job, and I was sixteen seventeen. 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:38.719 I was very, very happy. My parents had moved to 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:41.240 Central Florida. My other sister was living in Saint Pete, 0:08:41.280 --> 0:08:45.160 my older sister, and then my mom got sick and 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:47.600 I had to move home because she died suddenly. And 0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:49.240 I had to move into this small town of three 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:51.400 into people in central Florida and raised my little sisters 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:54.040 with my dad, which was not which was a faithless job. 0:08:54.840 --> 0:08:56.439 And I did that for about a year and a half. 0:08:56.440 --> 0:08:59.599 And then by the time then I moved back to 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:01.920 Saint pet But then everybody moved to New York and stuff, 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:04.040 so I just kind of went stayed with the friend 0:09:04.040 --> 0:09:07.480 of Tallahassee. You know, when you're in your teens, you've 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:09.679 got this whole network of great people and artists like 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:11.600 job I was talking about, and everything's great, and then 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:14.080 everyone starts to move to different places and drift away, 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:17.200 and then you're just left behind. So Tallahassee was not 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:19.320 a good place for me, So I took the option 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:21.600 and I went to I rode in the car to 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:24.400 California with one hundred and fifty dollars. I sold my 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:27.520 nineteen fifty five zero Cadillac FI thre hundred dollars, paid 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:30.199 my back rent, got to California with about one hundred 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:33.960 and fifty dollars, got that job and immediately an apartment 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:37.199 at the same place I was working, met John and 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:40.160 started going to shows, and I was doing poetry and stuff. 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:45.560 So what was your school experience? Were you a good student, 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:46.520 bad student? Did you? 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:50.160 I went to a very small town Catholic school, and 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:53.400 I loved it because it was all there was in 0:09:53.400 --> 0:09:55.080 my town, gravel Road, you know, there was to go 0:09:55.120 --> 0:09:57.920 outside and play and go to school and go to church. 0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:00.760 That was it. But then my family would Saint Pete 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:02.960 area when I was young, like fourteen. 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:03.679 I loved that. 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:05.719 But I quit high school on my sixteenth birthday. I 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:08.920 did not like Florida schools. I hadn't learned anything since 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:12.600 I moved down there. I didn't like the social thing. 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:16.160 You know, it was the sixties, early seventies. I didn't 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:16.600 need it. 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:21.280 I just quit, and you quit and then what'd you 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:22.720 do for money and where'd you live? 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:23.200 Well? 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:24.960 I just got a job back then, you know, you 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:27.679 just get a job in an apartment tomorrow and nobody 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:30.600 had any problems with police. So I like, now, yeah, 0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:32.760 a minimum waste job in an apartment, just like that, 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:33.880 sixteen years old. 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:38.360 And was there any dream or were you just kind 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:40.120 of drifting taking it as it was. 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:43.400 I had a great boyfriend, a wonderful boyfriend, and I 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:45.400 wasn't sure what we were going to end up doing, 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:47.000 but it was really smart and creative, and I thought 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:49.240 we were going to get married and I was going 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:50.800 to do some art stuff and he was going to 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:52.520 work hard because he was that kind of great guy. 0:10:53.720 --> 0:10:55.920 But then after my mom died, I realized maybe raising 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:58.480 kids wasn't for me, and maybe being married wasn't for me, 0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:01.120 and I just wanted to escape my life. It's really bad, 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:03.520 and threw him over for no reason. And he's a 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:06.640 great guy and I totally regret that, and he knows that. 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:09.679 But I decided, you know, on a whim, to go 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:11.960 to California. If somebody called me and said they needed 0:11:12.000 --> 0:11:14.000 guess money to Chicago, I had to go to Chicago. 0:11:16.040 --> 0:11:20.600 Where's that guy today, I don't know. 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:24.080 I hate that question because you know, almost everybody's dad 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:27.880 that we know he might still be around. I don't know. 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:31.000 So you didn't look up, you know, when everybody appeared 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:32.480 on the internet. 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:35.800 I don't do Facebook or any that at the Internet 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:37.760 is very is very scary to me. I just try 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:39.440 to stay away from it as much as possible. 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:42.479 Do you have a smartphone? 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:45.360 I do have a smartphone, but I don't have any 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:46.640 social media or anything like that. 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:50.640 Okay, so when you get this job, do you have 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:53.560 any dreams of being a writer or that's just what 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:54.640 you're doing right then? 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:57.280 I'm a writer. But you know, see that's the thing. 0:11:57.320 --> 0:11:59.480 It was so fun back then because you know, it 0:11:59.520 --> 0:12:02.200 was after it was before AIDS, and it was the 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:05.360 gay time where everybody's like everyone was in self discovery. 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:07.960 Everybody in the underclasses or the weirdos were all together. 0:12:08.520 --> 0:12:10.560 So whether it was music or being gay or being straight, 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:12.360 you know, whatever it was, we all kind of saw 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:15.080 each other as these really cool counterculture people were all 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:18.200 hanging out together and you know, smarter than the average 0:12:18.200 --> 0:12:21.720 bear because we knew what was real and what was it. 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:24.079 And I was happy with that. I would have been 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:26.600 fine just being a writer and a poet. I never 0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:28.480 had any dreams of being in a band. I love 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:30.640 the doors growing up, but I in Illinois. I never 0:12:30.640 --> 0:12:32.560 would have thought i'd meet Raymond Zrek and get in 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:35.800 the band and all that. It just happened. It was 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:38.680 just an accident. And I had a song that I 0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:40.960 wrote because I just decided to write a song one 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:43.080 day and I sang it to John. He wanted to 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:45.040 play it with Billy and I said, no, you can't 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:47.480 just take my song. It's all I have in this world. 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:50.079 He said, fine, then you sing it, and I said, okay, 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:53.400 then I will, which was kind of crazy since I'd 0:12:53.440 --> 0:12:55.520 never sung a song besides that one in my life, 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:58.160 but I figured why not. 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:02.559 Hey, John, you talked about going to New York seeing 0:13:02.559 --> 0:13:06.200 the Talking Heads. Were you aware of the Ramones and 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:08.080 the hard Ridge bands at that point? 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:13.000 Oh? Yeah, of course I was. Just my parents lived 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:16.800 in Brooklyn and the Talking Heads happened to play the 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:20.440 weekend that I went up there to visit them. 0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:25.240 I see, so you came to LA. Did you plan 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:27.560 to form a band and try to make it? Was 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:29.640 that the plan? Oh? 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:33.040 I suppose I had a vision. 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:33.559 That I might. 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:39.880 I thought I could write songs. I had been out 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:42.640 there with a friend and he and I were kind 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:46.800 of a songwriting team. We wrote I don't know a 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:51.200 dozen or so songs back in Baltimore, and there was 0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:55.160 some guy who we contacted and met with, and he 0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:58.240 liked our demos and said he would he would buy 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:02.720 them for five hundred dollars apiece. And we thought, well, 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:05.040 if we could do that a couple of times in more, 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:09.199 if we could do that a few times a month, 0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:12.720 then we'd we'd be okay. But I just knew I 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:15.160 had to get out of Baltimore and didn't want to 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:20.080 go to New York. And as soon as I walked 0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:22.640 off the plane, walked out of the airport the first 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:26.360 time we went to LA, I just felt like it 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:29.880 was home or it was it was a place that 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:36.680 was exciting and intriguing. I think probably because of writers 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:47.000 like Charles Bukowski and Jim Thompson, you know, Raymond Chandler 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:49.000 movies and such. 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:52.240 How do you feel about LA fifty years later? 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:55.760 Oh, I haven't lived there in forever, so it's a 0:14:56.560 --> 0:14:59.840 it's there's still a little bit of something there. It's 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:04.320 it's very very different. I like it. I wouldn't live there. 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:07.320 It's really hard to get around, it's hard to stay 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:10.000 connected to people that you know because people live on 0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:14.320 different sides of town. But there's still something, there's still 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:17.600 some magic there. I suppose. I'm happy to be living 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:20.720 in Austin right now. 0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:28.720 So how did you decide to leave LA? And when 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:29.880 did you leave La? 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:37.280 Left to LA when my wife at the time and 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:42.600 mother of my children and I had enough money to 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:44.760 buy a house, but not enough money to buy a 0:15:44.800 --> 0:15:47.520 house in LA and we're kind of tired of it 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:51.920 and didn't want to raise kids in LA. So we 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:55.000 moved up into the mountains about seventy five miles north 0:15:55.040 --> 0:16:00.560 of Los Angeles so I could commute pretty easily. Raised 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:03.840 three daughters for twenty years up there, and it was 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:10.920 pretty idyllic mountain, very physically challenging at times, a lot 0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:14.280 of weather, snow and such, and that's exciting. 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:18.400 And what are your three daughters up to today? 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:22.000 They're all they all do things that they love. Ones 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:25.080 a choreographer and dancer. They all live in the Bay Area. 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:33.040 The other is a kind of high level producer, works 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:36.600 on big events like outside lands and things like that, 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:41.440 and the middle daughter is works in film. She's a 0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:45.840 set designer and a production designer, so they none of 0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:48.800 them have I'm very happy that none of them work 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:52.040 at a soulless job in a cubicle, so I feel 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:55.360 like that's a real success. Plus, we we love each 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:58.640 other and we're in contact, which sometimes doesn't happen. 0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:01.840 So how'd you get from the Mountains to Austin? 0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:06.840 Oh? I moved to Bakersfield when their mom and I 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:10.600 split up, and I moved to the Bay Area when 0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:16.840 I met my beloved wife now and lived in We 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:21.160 lived in the Bay for about eight or nine years, 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:24.399 and she's originally from Texas. They have a lot of 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:28.440 friends here in Austin. I could buy a house in Austin, 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:33.359 and I thought I might be renting for forever. I 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:38.600 rented houses for about ten years or so, and then 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:42.840 talked to a friend and said I could I'm a realtor. 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:44.399 I could find a house for you to buy, and 0:17:44.800 --> 0:17:45.120 we did. 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:50.200 So you have a whole career in Hollywood. Just being 0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:55.760 in Austin hurt or affect acting opportunities and other opportunities. 0:17:57.240 --> 0:18:01.440 Not really, I mean, I don't act unless someone offers 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:05.199 me a job or or sends me. I do an 0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:09.400 audition now and then, but they're all they're all self tape. Nowadays, 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:12.080 you don't actually go into auditions. And there was a 0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:16.600 point at which I don't know, twenty years ago, I 0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:20.440 just stopped auditioning. I just said you, I've got a 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:22.480 huge catalog of film. If you want to see what 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:25.040 I can do, just take a look at that. If 0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:28.600 it's something really serious, maybe I'll come in an audition. 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:32.800 But no, it doesn't hurt it, especially now all the 0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:34.760 auditions are self tape. You just do it on your 0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:37.440 iPhone and send it to somebody. 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:41.040 Why'd you move to Bakersfield And what was that like? 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:44.240 Because it was close to where my kids lived, and 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:48.359 Bakersfield was awesome. I mean it's apart from apart from 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:53.920 the racism, it's great. I should have written short stories there, 0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:57.440 but I just soaked it up. I only lived there 0:18:57.440 --> 0:18:59.760 for about two or three years. 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:04.639 And could you feel the Merle Haggard influence, you know? 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:06.320 Is that something you definitely? 0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:08.760 Yeah. I lived in Oildale, which is where he lived. 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:16.520 And Oildale's a kind of mixed white and Latino, really 0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:19.480 working class that still had a lot of hockey tonks 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:21.840 there when I lived there, so it was pretty fun. 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:26.200 Now in the time since you've lived in Austin, Boston 0:19:26.240 --> 0:19:30.200 itself has changed. One of the changes you've noticed in Austin. 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:32.520 And how do you feel about those? 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:34.639 Oh? 0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:40.680 Well, I think every every middle sized city has changed 0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:47.520 markedly in the last five to ten years. Austin had 0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:50.920 a huge influx of people during the pandemic, mostly through tech. 0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:59.680 And I mean Austin has always had a venture capitalist startup. 0:20:00.680 --> 0:20:01.080 Element. 0:20:01.160 --> 0:20:03.960 There were friends of ours that moved here in the 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:08.520 early two thousands from San Francisco. So there's still plenty 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:14.679 of weird, cool stuff in Austin. But everything's changed. I 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:19.919 mean in Nashville and Portland, in Tulsa, I mean, you 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:21.879 name it. 0:20:21.160 --> 0:20:22.880 So excene. Where do you live now? 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:27.600 I live in this cute little town called Orange. It's 0:20:27.600 --> 0:20:31.080 in California. It's an old fashioned, little historic town. 0:20:32.440 --> 0:20:34.160 This is in Orange County, right. 0:20:34.040 --> 0:20:36.560 Correct, Inland, not by the beach. 0:20:37.359 --> 0:20:39.520 And how did you end up there? Oh? 0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:42.199 I did end up here. That's exactly what happened. I 0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:44.720 ended up here, and that's very weird how that happened. 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:48.000 I just was living somewhere else when I came here 0:20:48.160 --> 0:20:51.080 and I wasn't sure where to move, but Billy lives here, 0:20:51.240 --> 0:20:53.320 so that was kind of a draw. It's just a 0:20:53.320 --> 0:20:55.320 great place. I didn't even know what was here. I 0:20:55.320 --> 0:20:56.879 would have moved here a long time ago. I've been 0:20:56.880 --> 0:21:00.399 here fifteen years. It's kind of the town looking for 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:02.359 it to kind of got a Midwestern vibe a little 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:03.480 bit that I like it. 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:08.960 And John, how did you meet Billy Zoom? 0:21:09.200 --> 0:21:13.520 Well, this is ancient history reported so many times. It 0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:18.639 was in a paper, a newspaper called The Recycler, and 0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:21.840 it came out every Thursday, and it was seventy five 0:21:21.920 --> 0:21:25.560 cents and you could get you could rescue a kitten, 0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:29.240 or you could buy a used refrigerator, or you could 0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:32.840 find an apartment, or you could find a lead singer. 0:21:33.640 --> 0:21:36.760 And Billy and I put ads in that paper. They 0:21:36.760 --> 0:21:40.760 were free. The ads were free, and we put ads 0:21:41.040 --> 0:21:45.240 that were similarly worded. The same week and I called 0:21:45.280 --> 0:21:47.760 him and someone answered the I guess his girlfriend maybe 0:21:48.320 --> 0:21:51.480 answered the phone and took down a message, and he 0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:54.040 called me back. But we were kind of calling each 0:21:54.040 --> 0:21:55.040 other at the same time. 0:21:56.480 --> 0:21:57.680 And what did your ad say? 0:21:58.520 --> 0:22:01.879 I have no idea, but I think I think the 0:22:02.200 --> 0:22:04.320 fact that Ecsceine and I moved to LA around the 0:22:04.400 --> 0:22:08.480 same time that DJ and Billy had been there playing, 0:22:09.160 --> 0:22:14.200 and that we all got together wasn't just by chance. 0:22:15.240 --> 0:22:17.360 I'm not sure what fate is, but I think that 0:22:17.400 --> 0:22:22.560 there was a niche that needed to be filled or 0:22:22.600 --> 0:22:25.320 wanted to be filled, and we were all there and 0:22:25.359 --> 0:22:29.320 we filled it. And Billy brought rockabilly guitar playing into 0:22:29.320 --> 0:22:32.639 punk rock and exscene, and I developed a style of 0:22:32.720 --> 0:22:38.240 singing that nobody else did, and so and we had 0:22:38.240 --> 0:22:44.280