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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: There are some significant developments coming out of the Middle East,

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Speaker 2: as it appears, maybe potentially that a Gaza ceasefire may

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Speaker 2: well be very close to having been negotiated. Joe Biden

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Speaker 2: spoke about this yesterday. Let's take a listen to what

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Speaker 2: he had to say.

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Speaker 4: Finally, coming into fruition, I've learned many years of public

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Speaker 4: service to never, never, never, ever give up. So I

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Speaker 4: spoke to Prime Minister Visual yesterday, I spoke to the

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Speaker 4: Mirror Cutter today. I look forward to speaking with President

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Speaker 4: CC soon. We're pressing hard to close this. The deal

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Speaker 4: we have a structure would free the hostages, halt of fighting,

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Speaker 4: provide security Israel, and allow us to significantly surge humanitarian

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Speaker 4: assistance to the Palestinians who've suffered terribly in this war

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Speaker 4: that I'm aus started. They've been through hell. So many

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Speaker 4: innocent people have been killed, so many communities have been destroyed.

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Speaker 4: The Palestinian people deserve peace and the right to determine

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Speaker 4: their own futures. Are deserves peace and real security, and

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Speaker 4: the hostage and their families deserve to be reunited. And

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Speaker 4: so we're working urgently to close this, dear, and as

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Speaker 4: we deal with media challenges, in my view, we have

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Speaker 4: to look to the future.

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Speaker 2: So Biden, they're trying to take credit for this potential deal.

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Speaker 2: All indications are that he deserves no credit for this

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Speaker 2: deal whatsoever. I want to come back to that because

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Speaker 2: I want to talk a little bit about the outlines

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Speaker 2: of what is at least being reported and what's being shared.

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Speaker 2: The contours of this potential ceasefire deal is put see

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Speaker 2: four up on the screen drop site. Our friends over

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Speaker 2: there are doing incredible work as usual reporting this out.

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Speaker 5: They say.

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Speaker 2: A source close to negotiations tool Drop site that Hamas

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Speaker 2: had accepted a final draft of the agreement with no

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Speaker 2: new demands or proposed amendments, was waiting for Israel to

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Speaker 2: accept the deal to local sources citing Egyptian sources are

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Speaker 2: also reporting Hamas has agreed to the final draft.

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Speaker 5: In addition, Sager, there.

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Speaker 2: Was a draft of the agreement that has been reported

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Speaker 2: at this point, and it looks pretty much exactly like

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Speaker 2: the deal that was crafted back in you know, May

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Speaker 2: June July. You'll recall Biden came out and gave a

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Speaker 2: big speech, Oh, Israel has accepted this deal. We're waiting

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Speaker 2: for Hamas to accept. That was always total, incomplete bullshit.

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Speaker 2: In reality, it was always Israel and bb NET Yaho

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Speaker 2: in particular that were throwing up new objections and trying

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Speaker 2: to change the deal. Hamas has long been willing to

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Speaker 2: accept this deal, and now here we are, months later,

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Speaker 2: many more people killed, devastated, having suffered more rubble, more

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Speaker 2: destruction during all those months, coming back around to the

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Speaker 2: very same deal. And you know, as I said, Biden

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Speaker 2: here trying to take credit for a ceasefire deal that

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Speaker 2: maybe is coming together in the final days of his administration.

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Speaker 2: But if we put put C three up on the screen,

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Speaker 2: the reporting is that actually, really it was not Joe

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Speaker 2: Biden that got this done. It was Trump's Mid East

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Speaker 2: envoy who put the screws to net Yahoo and said,

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Speaker 2: you're going to accept this Gaza plan and this is

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Speaker 2: going to happen before Trump ultimately takes office. And there's

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Speaker 2: so much to say about this, Agura. I mean, first

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Speaker 2: of all, just the utter pathetic nature of all of

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Speaker 2: the lies and gaslighting and moral depravity of the Biden

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Speaker 2: administration lying times, Oh, we're really being tough on nat Yaho,

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Speaker 2: We're really trying, We're working day and.

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Speaker 5: Night to secure a ceasefire deal.

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Speaker 2: Bullshit, bullshit, Because when the US finally said no, this

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Speaker 2: is going to happen.

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Speaker 5: Guess what.

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Speaker 2: Even though this is actually going to be politically difficult

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Speaker 2: for Bibi and Nania and we'll talk about that more

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Speaker 2: in a moment, guess what it's happening. Biden had plenty

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Speaker 2: of leverage to use. Israel could not have pursued this

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Speaker 2: genocide without the full support and backing of the United

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Speaker 2: States of America. Biden was never willing to pull any

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Speaker 2: aspect of that support, and so yeah, lo and behold,

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Speaker 2: ceasefire didn't happen. Now, I will say, I think, you know,

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Speaker 2: BB wanted Trump to win. I think that there's long

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Speaker 2: been a plan in place, basically to give Trump a

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Speaker 2: ceasefire deal before he takes office. It is very reminiscent

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Speaker 2: of like the Iranian hostage deal and Reagan coming in

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Speaker 2: and having bat Chandel with him whatever. But that does

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Speaker 2: not absolve Biden of culpability for having never been willing

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Speaker 2: to put the screws to secure this outcome before this

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Speaker 2: now very late day, after so much devastation and destruction

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Speaker 2: has occurred. So listen, there's a lot of questions still,

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Speaker 2: it hasn't come to fruition yet.

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Speaker 5: There's a lot of question marks.

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Speaker 2: There's also a lot of question marks about what Trump

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Speaker 2: is offering in return for securing the ceasefire deal. You know,

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Speaker 2: the theories are probably He's going to allow them to

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Speaker 2: annex settlements in the West Bank, or there could be

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Speaker 2: a strike on Iranian nuclear facilities or some other significant

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Speaker 2: goodie that he is trading in exchange for you know,

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Speaker 2: getting this ceasefire before he takes office.

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Speaker 5: But again, the failures.

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Speaker 2: Of Joe Biden here are so incredibly manifest and so

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Speaker 2: incredibly does.

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Speaker 3: That's what I would look at this as, is that

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Speaker 3: actually Trump, ironically Biden's bear hug strategy was what by

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Speaker 3: keeping him close, you can tell them what to do.

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Speaker 3: I actually think Trump has successfully now pulled off the

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Speaker 3: quote unquote bear hug by being more pro Israel than Biden,

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Speaker 3: but then behind the scenes being like, hey, listen, man,

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Speaker 3: you gotta wrap this shit up.

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Speaker 1: He's like, I don't want to deal with this while

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Speaker 1: I'm in office.

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Speaker 3: And actually, this anecdote from the Israeli press is really interesting.

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Speaker 3: It says Steve Whitkoff called from Qatar to tell Netanyahu

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Speaker 3: he was coming to Israel the next afternoon. The aides

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Speaker 3: have been trying to delay this whole thing because they

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Speaker 3: don't want.

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Speaker 6: To do it.

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Speaker 3: We're like, oh, he's on the Sabbath, you can come later.

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Speaker 3: Witkoff's quote blunt reaction took them by surprise. He explained

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Speaker 3: to them in salty English, Shabat was of no interest

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Speaker 3: to him. His message was loud and clear. Thus, in

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Speaker 3: an unusual departure from official practice, the Prime Minister showed

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Speaker 3: up at his office for an official meeting with Witkoff,

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Speaker 3: who then returned to Katar to seal the deal. That

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Speaker 3: is very reminiscent of the Clinton quote like who's the

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Speaker 3: effing superpower whenever he got off the phone with Israel.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it just goes to show that when you

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Speaker 3: do even put modest pressure here, was Trump ever really

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Speaker 3: going to cut net and Yahua from arms. I don't

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Speaker 3: think so. I don't think it would have been politically

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Speaker 3: tenable for him. But I mean allegedly that's what he

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Speaker 3: was threatening behind the scenes, or maybe they could screw

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Speaker 3: with him a little bit. I was reading that they

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Speaker 3: have a lot of problems with jade m manufacturer and

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Speaker 3: smart bombs, and that they have all these things they

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Speaker 3: need to import from the US, and he's like, well,

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Speaker 3: maybe you know the export license takes three to six

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Speaker 3: months instead of what you know, the immediate fast track authority.

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Speaker 3: The point is, even the modest amount of pressure here

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Speaker 3: from the Trump team does seem to have put them,

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Speaker 3: you know, much more closer to the finish line.

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Speaker 1: I mean two with Hamas.

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Speaker 3: The crazy thing about this deal is that, you know,

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Speaker 3: in a lot of ways, Trump is reaping these benefits

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Speaker 3: because this deal has not changed. It's the same deal.

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Speaker 3: It's been on the table for months and months and months.

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Speaker 3: It's always been there. Trump just had to come in

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Speaker 3: and use a little bit of coercion and force. And

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Speaker 3: one of the ways that we know that to be

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Speaker 3: true is that the Israeli right wing is freaking out

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Speaker 3: about this and is pissed off at Trump for forcing

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Speaker 3: that and Yahoo to appear to take the deal.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems to be the best.

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Speaker 2: Right And I think the other piece of this is, like,

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Speaker 2: I mean, there isn't much more to destroy in Gaza.

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Speaker 2: The idea that you were going to quote unquote, you

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Speaker 2: know fully annihilate Hamas was always fanciful. So you know,

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Speaker 2: I think it's kind of run its course, and u

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Speaker 2: BB has other goals in mind, like, for example, you know,

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Speaker 2: it was reported that Miriam Maddison gave Trumpe hundred million

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Speaker 2: dollars for his campaign in order for him to exchange

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Speaker 2: back annexation in the West Bank, So you know, that

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Speaker 2: may be the next the next move for the Israelis.

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Speaker 2: So again, there's a lot to you know, let's not

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Speaker 2: paint this like this is some moral victory or like

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Speaker 2: the pain for the Palestinians is ending. Here, there's still

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Speaker 2: like a lot of question marks moving forward. But but

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Speaker 2: you know, I think it's all obviously very clear that

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Speaker 2: if Biden has taken a hard enough line and really

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Speaker 2: been willing to put the screws to NETANYAHUO, this could

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Speaker 2: have ended long ago and that will be his legacy.

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Speaker 2: Like he oversaw a gem side in the Middle East,

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Speaker 2: he ate and abted it, he shipped the weapons, he

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Speaker 2: knew what was going on. They you know all this,

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Speaker 2: all these lies coming from the state to Para. We

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Speaker 2: don't really know, and we're investigating, but you know better

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Speaker 2: than we know how much devastation there's been, how many

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Speaker 2: war crimes there have been, how just absolutely barbaric, these

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Speaker 2: atrocities have been, and you have not only stood by

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Speaker 2: and let it happen, you armed it, You pushed it forward,

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Speaker 2: and you lied to American people effectively when you said

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Speaker 2: you were working hard.

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Speaker 3: To because that's what the Trump thing really reveals. Yes, dude,

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Speaker 3: I think I got elected two months ago. Yeah, even

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Speaker 3: in office, it just does go to show with a

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Speaker 3: pressure behind the scenes. I will say this is at

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Speaker 3: least somewhat hopeful for makes me for Ukraine, that you

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Speaker 3: will put some pressure here and actually.

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Speaker 2: Has now that one's going in the opposite dra You

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Speaker 2: had Mike Waltz come out and say, actually, we want

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Speaker 2: the Ukrainians to draft.

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Speaker 3: You know, I think that's a good idea because it

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Speaker 3: makes the Ukrainian population be like, hold on a second,

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Speaker 3: do we actually want.

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Speaker 1: To do that? Because now they have to decide.

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Speaker 3: It's like, oh, you can keep the war going, but

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Speaker 3: you're gonna have to sacrifice all your war dead or

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Speaker 3: all of your entire young generation who's not dead, or

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Speaker 3: we can all make a deal and make.

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Speaker 1: This go away. These people can be alive. That's how

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Speaker 1: I viewed it. I may be wrong, but see on

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Speaker 1: that way.

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Speaker 3: Listen, you got to give him credit for this. You

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Speaker 3: have to give the Trump I am. It's incredible. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: because this just shows you it wasn't that hard the

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Speaker 3: whole time. If any you know, we're just people on YouTube, okay,

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Speaker 3: But at the very beginning, it's about a balance of power.

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Speaker 3: There's a balance sheet about the amount of aid that's

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Speaker 3: flowing in, how dependent the military is. Anybody can read

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Speaker 3: this spreadsheet. It's published by the State Department. We've been

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Speaker 3: talking about it now for almost eighteen months, and the

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Speaker 3: whole time we're like all you got to do is

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Speaker 3: put a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Of pressure on them, as you've seen in the past. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't hard.

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Speaker 2: No, that's absolutely right, and it's less even like I

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Speaker 2: don't think this was And I do think bb wanted

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Speaker 2: to play ball more with Trump, wanted to give him

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Speaker 2: this victory, There's no doubt about that. But the failure

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Speaker 2: of the Biden administration here is absolutely undeniable and absolutely

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Speaker 2: unforgivable as well in terms of the way that they've

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Speaker 2: comported themselves. And you know, like I said, we'll see

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Speaker 2: how it comes together, and we'll also see what was

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Speaker 2: given in exchange, because that's the other part that is

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Speaker 2: going to be very important. But to your point, Soger,

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Speaker 2: you know, domestically, there's a lot of questions about what

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Speaker 2: this is going to look like for BB Net Yahoo.

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Speaker 2: There was already kind of a freak out happening on

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Speaker 2: Israeli television. Can put C two up on the screen.

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Speaker 2: I'll just read you a little bit of the translation

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Speaker 2: of what is being said in this Hebrew language clip.

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Speaker 2: If we can go ahead and play C two, they

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Speaker 2: say this Net Yahoo proxy laments were the first to

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Speaker 2: pay a price for Trump's election. The deal is being

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Speaker 2: forced upon us. We thought we'd take control of northern Gaza,

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Speaker 2: that they let us impede humanitarian aid as part of

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Speaker 2: what is being said here. So a lot of upset

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Speaker 2: among you know, right wing Israelis, of which there are

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Speaker 2: many about this, about this potential deal. Go to C

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Speaker 2: five now and we can talk Schiel ben Efram, who

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Speaker 2: we've had on this show, who's like a liberal Zionist.

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Speaker 2: He lays out why he thinks that Bbe thinks he

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Speaker 2: can survive this ceasefire with Trump's help. There are two

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Speaker 2: parts to his strategy, says First, he's patted his coalition

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Speaker 2: and make it Ben Gavier proof. Ben Gavier being one

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Speaker 2: of the you know, basically terrorists that are in this coalition.

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Speaker 2: Of course I think they're all terrorists, but anyway, put

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Speaker 2: that aside. Nayah, who successfully played divide and conquer between

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Speaker 2: Ben Gavi and Smodridge, who are the two like most

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Speaker 2: extreme parts of his coalition they hate each other, and

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Speaker 2: is willing to stay if Ben gavere leaves. Netna, who

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Speaker 2: also brought in Gideon Sar tore off a don roll

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Speaker 2: from Yesha Tid and Al nog Co, and I don't

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Speaker 2: know who these people are from ben Gavier. But anyway,

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Speaker 2: he's saying divide and conquer between those two and now

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Speaker 2: he's got the numbers. Second, he's hoping to get help

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Speaker 2: from Trump that will come in the form of one

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Speaker 2: or more of the following normalization with Saudi Arabia, which

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Speaker 2: Saudi is still holding to. It would require some at

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Speaker 2: least track towards a two state solution. So I don't

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Speaker 2: know if that one is coming, but we'll see an

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Speaker 2: attack on the Iranian nuclear facilities or annexation of the

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Speaker 2: settlements in the West Bank with American approval.

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Speaker 5: So that's what I was referring to before.

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Speaker 2: I think that is quite likely to occur, given what

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Speaker 2: we know about Miriam Addelson's priorities. Then he will say

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Speaker 2: to the Israeli people that he got the hostages back, defeated,

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Speaker 2: Hesbela killed, Sinwar and Nosurala, that Lebanon and Syria now

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Speaker 2: have new regimes, and will add the extra assets Trump adds.

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Speaker 2: He will say the war was worth it for all

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Speaker 2: that that the Middle East is transformed. Many will agree

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Speaker 2: his chances of survival are good, and Saguri you have

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Speaker 2: to say, I mean you remember after October seventh, BB nine.

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Speaker 2: Yaho's political goose was cooked. I mean, his approval rate

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Speaker 2: was as low as it could be. People blamed him

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Speaker 2: because he was mister Security. He was supposed to be

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Speaker 2: the leader who would always keep the Israeli people.

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Speaker 5: Safe, and he failed in that.

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Speaker 2: October seventh occurs horrors, you know, traumatic horrors for the

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Speaker 2: Israeli people, and his whole view of propping up Pamas

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Speaker 2: in order to you know, again divide and conger between

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Speaker 2: the West Bank and Gaza and make it make sure

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Speaker 2: that since it was Hamas in control in Gaza, that

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Speaker 2: he could always oh, there's no partner for peace. We'd

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Speaker 2: love peace, but there's no partner for peace, so we

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Speaker 2: can't possibly have peace negotiations. That strategy dramatically failed on

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Speaker 2: October seventh, and yet here he is. Here he is

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Speaker 2: an absolute political survivor, having held on, having delayed any

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Speaker 2: sort of investigation into the failures of October seven, because

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Speaker 2: remember also they knew in advance, they had the insight

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Speaker 2: into the plans.

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Speaker 5: In advance.

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Speaker 2: They had spotters who were there close to Gaza who

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Speaker 2: were saying they're planning something big that they ignored.

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Speaker 5: They had moved some of the Ida forces up.

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Speaker 2: To protect their extremist thug settlers in the West Bank,

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Speaker 2: leaving the people near Gaza very vulnerable.

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Speaker 5: The response on that.

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Speaker 2: Day chaotic, absolute catastrophe, disaster, and he forestalled all the

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Speaker 2: questions on that pushed him out into the future again

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Speaker 2: and again and again and now here he is still

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Speaker 2: surviving and still likely to maintain his power in the

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Speaker 2: state of Israel.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely unbelievable.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's pretty crazy.

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Speaker 3: I mean, he's survived, and you can always give him credit,

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Speaker 3: I guess for that in being a survivor, but he

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Speaker 3: does still have some interesting pushback inside of his own country.

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Speaker 3: I genuinely wonder what's going to happen, because the release

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Speaker 3: of all of the hostages basically allows the Israeli left

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Speaker 3: to or whatever is reminiscent of whatever it is, to

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Speaker 3: at least ask some big picture questions about the war

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Speaker 3: and what it could return, maybe even too debates around

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Speaker 3: the settlers. I mean, remember there as a portion of

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Speaker 3: Israeli society it's not pro settler. It's hard to believe,

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Speaker 3: but it's actually true. There's a lot of debate, you know,

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Speaker 3: inside of the country. Previously, some of that has been

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Speaker 3: squashed now because of the ongoing war, but not only

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Speaker 3: the war.

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Speaker 1: Is effectively over.

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Speaker 3: Now these big picture questions like do we want Gaza,

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Speaker 3: do we want remember Syria, you know, which is currently happening,

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Speaker 3: is actually reading behind the scenes too. The Trump people

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Speaker 3: called Bibe and they're like.

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Speaker 1: Cool off. In Syria, They're like, go on, you can

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Speaker 1: stop there.

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Speaker 3: But beyond that, like we don't need to go any further,

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Speaker 3: because they also they were like, we don't need some

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Speaker 3: war breaking out between the new Syrian government if you

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Speaker 3: want to call that and the Israelis. They're like, maybe

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Speaker 3: we just keep things where they are. So it's clear

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Speaker 3: that at the very least are trying a containment strategy.

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Speaker 3: Biden tried it too, But I think the key, the

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Speaker 3: real lesson is America is still a superpower. Our power

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Speaker 3: and our ability to course is immense when we want it.

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Speaker 3: It's actually stunning to see it be used again.

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Speaker 1: I've been waiting for this for a long time.

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Speaker 3: As you said, look, if you're some you know, pro

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Speaker 3: Palestine person, you ain't gonna get what you.

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Speaker 1: Want out of this administration.

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Speaker 3: This is probably as good as it's ever going to

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Speaker 3: be for you. Just just giving you a warning but

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Speaker 3: the lessons that you guys tried during the Biden administration

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Speaker 3: was correct.

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Speaker 1: American power is supreme.

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Speaker 3: It has the ability to compel any state, even Israel,

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Speaker 3: to be brought to heal and to do what we want. Now,

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Speaker 3: let's use this lesson for all other nations across the world,

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Speaker 3: for Ukraine and for others, and to actually for our

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Speaker 3: own benefit for once in a goddamn.

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Speaker 2: While, I wanted to also just a few details about

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Speaker 2: this deal and what again, it hasn't been signed, sealed

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Speaker 2: and delivered, so I want to, you know, reserve complete judgment.

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Speaker 2: But based on what is being reported, it doesn't require

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Speaker 2: Hamas to beyond of government, I mean effectively, like they

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Speaker 2: did not destroy Himas and Hamas is very likely to

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Speaker 2: take control on the Gaza strip.

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Speaker 4: Again.

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Speaker 2: So again Shiel, who is the liberal Zionists we've had

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Speaker 2: on the show previously. He says the reason this happened

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Speaker 2: that he says, the victory for Hamas is remarkable.

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Speaker 5: Those are his words. It is remarkable that all.

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Speaker 2: Of these previous red lines for Israel are being waived.

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Speaker 2: The reason this happened is clear, he writes. Despite incredible

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Speaker 2: victories on the battlefield, Israel has not offered a political

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Speaker 2: program to replace himas or move to remove them from

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Speaker 2: Gaza as a governing force. Is failed to translate IDF

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Speaker 2: gains into political ones. That has in essence nullified all

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Speaker 2: of its military achievements. So you know, after all of

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Speaker 2: this horror, bloodshed, women, children being murdered, schools, hospitals, mosques,

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Speaker 2: churches destroyed. After all of that, Hamas is still going

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Speaker 2: to be in charge. So which again, you and I

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Speaker 2: could have told them on day one and tried to,

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Speaker 2: but nobody listens to to us. So in any case,

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Speaker 2: that's that's where things are ending up. There was one

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Speaker 2: more PCR that I wanted to get to because now

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Speaker 2: that it's now that it doesn't matter anymore. Suddenly a

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Speaker 2: few media organizations have gotten around to reporting on the

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Speaker 2: horse that our government and our tax dollars went to

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Speaker 2: fund in the Gaza strip put C eight up on

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Speaker 2: the screen, so this is from sixty minutes. They interviewed

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Speaker 2: a number of the people from the State Department who

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Speaker 2: had resigned over our support of these hors. They interviewed

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Speaker 2: this former US diplomat who said she documented images coming

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Speaker 2: out of Gaza for the State Department. Quote fragments of

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Speaker 2: US bombs next to massacres of mostly children. Again, these

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Speaker 2: people knew everything that was going on. They know more

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Speaker 2: than we know about the horrors that were perpetrated here.

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Speaker 2: And rather than doing anything to put pressure on Israel,

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Speaker 2: and Jack lou admits in his it was the ambassador

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Speaker 2: at Israel admits in his exit interview that we never

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Speaker 2: really put any real pressure on Israel whatsoever. Instead, they

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Speaker 2: continue to green light these horrors. And this last one again,

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Speaker 2: this is like a media commentary. This is again sixty

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Speaker 2: minutes is part of this broader package that they do.

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Speaker 5: They have across the noun.

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Speaker 2: Decimated Gaza strip in America's mark is everywhere. In footage

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Speaker 2: shot by CBS News in May, the ground is littered

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Speaker 2: with US made ammunition casings, some used to prop up tens,

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Speaker 2: others turned into playthings by children.

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Speaker 5: You had this footage in May.

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Speaker 2: Why are you only releasing it now that it doesn't

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Speaker 2: matter now after the fact, when probably a ceasefire deal

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Speaker 2: is you know, in the offing in the next possibly

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Speaker 2: even today. You've had this since May and you said nothing,

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Speaker 2: So I mean, I guess, like, good job for finally

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Speaker 2: getting around to about these horrors, but could have been

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Speaker 2: a lot more useful and a lot more important and

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Speaker 2: a lot more courageous, by the way, back in May,

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Speaker 2: when you actually obtained this footage, and you know you're

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Speaker 2: seeing a significant amount of this zager. I mean, there

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Speaker 2: was a big New York Times report relatively recently that

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Speaker 2: confirmed so reporting we covered a year ago coming out

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Speaker 2: about the way Israel was operating in the Gaza Strip

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Speaker 2: and how many civilian casualties they were perfectly comfortable with tolerating,

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Speaker 2: and the way that they were using these power targets

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Speaker 2: apartment buildings, hospital schools in order to try to inflict

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Speaker 2: pain on explicitly on the civilian population in hopes they

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Speaker 2: would turn against some US. Finally confirming this reporting again

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Speaker 2: at a time when it doesn't really matter all that

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Speaker 2: much anymore, except for the announce of history, which I

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Speaker 2: guess is theoretically better than nothing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, theoretically better than nothing. I think that's a good

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Speaker 1: way of putting in.

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Speaker 3: But nonetheless it's a crazy development and absolutely lots of lessons.

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Speaker 3: We say, so the next time this whole thing breaks out,

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Speaker 3: because we all know that's gonna happen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I don't know I give it what

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Speaker 1: three years. That's usually the cool off period.

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Speaker 2: I don't know that happened because I think I think

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Speaker 2: they may go after the West Bank here pretty quickly.

439
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:14,840
Speaker 2: There's already indications of that.

440
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:16,320
Speaker 1: But we'll see what they could.

441
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,119
Speaker 3: But if they do, I mean, I hate to say it,

442
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:19,600
Speaker 3: but a lot of those people haven't been thrown out

443
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:21,840
Speaker 3: of there, right, you know, these settlers have already got

444
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:23,840
Speaker 3: moved in and made their territorially.

445
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you know, is there even an ability to resist?

446
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:29,360
Speaker 3: I think I think Ryan just did a story about

447
00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:31,480
Speaker 3: the West Bank or drops I just did some story

448
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:35,400
Speaker 3: about the West Bank and resistance. Anyway, we'll cover it obviously,

449
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,600
Speaker 3: But the best thing is what the Trump people need

450
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 3: to door and want to do. And this was always

451
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 3: the case made to me by all these folks is

452
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,440
Speaker 3: they're like, look, you're not going to like a lot

453
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 3: of us Rhetorically, they're like, but.

454
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,119
Speaker 1: Trump has an anathema to conflict.

455
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:49,679
Speaker 7: Uh.

456
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,560
Speaker 3: And while yeah, you say a lot of things, but

457
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:58,359
Speaker 3: in general chaos, he especially understood during the Biden era

458
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:04,639
Speaker 3: how much that can sink from Afghanistan to Gaza to Ukraine,

459
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,040
Speaker 3: the ongoing chaos and the inability to wind these things

460
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:12,320
Speaker 3: up is actually very politically detrimental in a way I

461
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:15,800
Speaker 3: frankly would not have predicted in terms of how much people,

462
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,480
Speaker 3: when they want to, will pay attention to foreign affairs

463
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,920
Speaker 3: and at least absorb this feeling of everything has gone awry.

464
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:23,960
Speaker 3: So Trump is probably going to try his best to

465
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 3: keep that contained. Now, look, a lot of the enemy

466
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:27,480
Speaker 3: gets a vote, and not just the enemy, a lot

467
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:29,960
Speaker 3: of people get the vote. Hamas and all these other

468
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 3: people can decide how they're going to absorb this.

469
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 1: You've got Ukraine and Russia.

470
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 3: Obviously they need to come to terms by themselves, even

471
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:41,320
Speaker 3: with significant amounts of pressure. There's so many different global

472
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:43,880
Speaker 3: problems that star are still out there. Who these There's

473
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 3: a whole entire campaign that's happening. So anyway it will

474
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,920
Speaker 3: be I don't predict that things will be all rosy

475
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 3: for the next four years, but I am at least

476
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 3: heartened to see this.

477
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:58,400
Speaker 2: One last thing to note is I reference this interview

478
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 2: from Ambassador Jack lu who was the US ambassador to Israel,

479
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 2: and not only did he say that now we didn't

480
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,120
Speaker 2: really try to stop them on anything, but he also

481
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 2: says he thinks that this may have well sunk the

482
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 2: both Biden and Kamala Harris in terms of ability to

483
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 2: get reelected. He thinks that this could have been the

484
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 2: political death Noel for them.

485
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 3: So I don't think that's true. I mean, you can

486
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,360
Speaker 3: make a case a small ye, conondering.

487
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,160
Speaker 2: How close, considering how close it was. I think there's

488
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 2: a relatively persuasive case. And you know, when we interviewed

489
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,119
Speaker 2: those like working class, like the people who voted for

490
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 2: Trump and AOC, a surprising number of them talked about

491
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 2: you know, war and peace and talked specifically about Gaza.

492
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:44,640
Speaker 2: So it's hard to say, but it's obviously noteworthy that this,

493
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 2: you know, prominent US official. He at least thinks that

494
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 2: this was responsible for sinking Biden and by extension, Kamala Harris.

495
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 1: That's certainly possible.

496
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 5: Should we get to the latest with take.

497
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,479
Speaker 1: Now, I love this story for reasons. Let's go and

498
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 1: put this up there on the screen.

499
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 3: China discusses sale of TikTok Us to Elon Musk as

500
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 3: one possible option. This is from Bloomberg News and has

501
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,119
Speaker 3: now been actually confirmed by the Wall Street Journal. And

502
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,440
Speaker 3: what is amazing about this story, Crystal, is I think

503
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 3: that there is something for everybody is one. Of course

504
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:25,439
Speaker 3: Elon is involved too. Why is Elon involved because he

505
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 3: is a very very close relationship to the Chinese government

506
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 3: because of his Tesla Giga Shanghai Tesla is one of

507
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:37,679
Speaker 3: his heavily reliant on China for batteries for minerals. Elon

508
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,400
Speaker 3: himself has said a lot of very questionable things about

509
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 3: the CCP in the past, So they're assuming that they

510
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,119
Speaker 3: can play ball. But here is my personal favorite line

511
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 3: in these stories, Crystal. The Chinese government has not communicated

512
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 3: with Byteedance about the contingency plans. It has considered as

513
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,679
Speaker 3: in byte Edance, you have no say who you're getting

514
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 3: sold to. If you do get sold, you will be

515
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,120
Speaker 3: sold Toever China decide that you will be sold too,

516
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 3: kind of validates the reason why I think it should

517
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 3: be banned, doesn't It is that they have literally zero

518
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,640
Speaker 3: control over their own corporate affairs. And in fact, byte

519
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,199
Speaker 3: Edance replied and commented on the story and was like,

520
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 3: we have no comment on this supposed fiction, and it's like, guys,

521
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 3: it has nothing to.

522
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 1: Do with you. That's what you don't seem to get.

523
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 3: The reason why the Chinese are considering selling to Elon

524
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 3: is two birds with one stone.

525
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 1: They've already got Elon.

526
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,160
Speaker 3: They have him, you know, in terms of their ability

527
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 3: to put pressure and control on him. The Chinese not no,

528
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 3: but I mean the thing is, the vast majority of

529
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 3: his wealth is in Tasla.

530
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 1: Tesla is a huge player in China, even.

531
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,199
Speaker 5: Though they have filed a huge factory there.

532
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 3: It's one of their biggest producers. And in fact, while

533
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,400
Speaker 3: those Tesla's are banned from the United States, they are

534
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 3: already being sold as far as Canada, right here in

535
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:56,359
Speaker 3: North America, all across the European Union, which don't have

536
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,479
Speaker 3: as strict export controls. Giga Shanghai is a tremendously important

537
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 3: to the company. That's just manufacturer batteries, the stuff that

538
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:07,199
Speaker 3: goes into the Tesla, almost one percent reliant of all

539
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:11,400
Speaker 3: of the technology actually so the actual battery, the lithium,

540
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 3: of the minerals, all of the refining. I forget the

541
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 3: name of the company starts with a C. The major

542
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 3: battery manufacturer that is Chinese is heavily is a big supplier.

543
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,440
Speaker 1: To the point is is that is very.

544
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 3: Very reliant on the Chinese government, and he has met

545
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 3: with them many times He even has I think a

546
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 3: wee bo account or whatever it's called in Chinese social media,

547
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 3: being like happy Birthday to the CCP, which he is posted.

548
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 1: In the past. I've done a monologue. You can go

549
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 1: watch it. So they have a good relationship with Elon. Two.

550
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,159
Speaker 3: Elon is a close ally of Trump. Trump wants to

551
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,199
Speaker 3: save TikTok. So who do you sell it to? You

552
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 3: sell it to Elon? You know, kind of a vassal

553
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,640
Speaker 3: of the king somebody if you think back to aristocracy,

554
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,919
Speaker 3: No Geniusly, listen, you can say a lot about these people.

555
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 3: They're smart, they know they understand our country much better

556
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 3: than we understand our country. There's I've played that famous

557
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,919
Speaker 3: speech before, the Chinese professor being like, you think we

558
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:06,639
Speaker 3: don't know how to control Hunter.

559
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 1: Biden, you know, talking about that.

560
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, but when you play the long game and you

561
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 3: don't have to get elected, it's easy. What you can

562
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 3: see from this is that they have decided a specific

563
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 3: way to get out of this is to curry favor

564
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 3: with Trump, curry favor with their oligarch, the richest man

565
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 3: in the United States, who they already have significant control over,

566
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 3: and use those two to do what we can see

567
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 3: on TikTok, which at the end of day, TikTok is

568
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 3: worthless to China, and in exchange we get what.

569
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:36,640
Speaker 1: A nice little deal on tariffs.

570
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 3: Maybe we say that this is a big gesture to

571
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 3: Donald Trump to Elon, we curry all this political favor,

572
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 3: and maybe we get Elon to stop posting certain types

573
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 3: of things about wigers or whatever.

574
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 1: Oh, who knows.

575
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 3: Maybe we do a little bit of China Taiwan trading

576
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 3: and all of that. And I honestly think that you

577
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 3: have to give them credit. It's smart, you know, for

578
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 3: they what they do. They saw this, They're just going

579
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 3: to tell by dance what to do. By Dance has

580
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 3: zero say over its own affairs. But by facilitating said sale,

581
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 3: they already know Elon has Twitter. They also know that

582
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 3: if anybody has the amount of wealth and the ability

583
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 3: to tap hundreds of billions of dollars in credit lines

584
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 3: if needed, as long as a network of wealthy friends

585
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 3: to buy TikTok, they may even sell it to him

586
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 3: at a loss. They don't care about the money, because

587
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 3: let's say they sold it to him for a hundred

588
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 3: billion and it he saves, and then Trump gives them

589
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,959
Speaker 3: a favorable tariff rate, they save what six hundred billion

590
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 3: a year? There's nothing to you know, TikTok is just

591
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 3: a pawn in all of this, So honestly is a

592
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 3: genius solution.

593
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 1: We really do have to hand it to him.

594
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 5: I mean, and we'll see if it haven't.

595
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 2: Obviously, like you said, TikTok says, it's pure fiction, blah

596
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 2: blah blah.

597
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 3: Right, but they have no, No, they don't know because

598
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 3: they don't even control their own company. This guy, the

599
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 3: Singaporean or whatever he works for, the guy in the

600
00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 3: byte dance like, he doesn't even he's a subsidiary of

601
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 3: his own company.

602
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 1: And then that company is a.

603
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 3: Subsidiary in foreign policy arm of the Chinese government. So

604
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 3: the labyrinthian way that this all works is just always

605
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 3: so hard to explain to a Western audience because it's

606
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 3: so foreign.

607
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 1: In Asia, this is very common.

608
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 3: Like Samsung is an extension of the Korean government, Toyota

609
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 3: is an extension of the Japanese government. Yeah, they're free

610
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 3: your society's but it's still like this here.

611
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 1: I mean, look, you.

612
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 3: Can say what you want about Apple, Facebook or whatever,

613
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 3: the level of the gap between the two is just

614
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 3: way bigger even if it's closer than Yeah.

615
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, for sure. But I'm just saying, like

616
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 2: it's not a done deal. So we'll see if it

617
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 2: comes to fruition. But I mean the other piece of

618
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 2: this is like it just makes Elin.

619
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 1: Even more powerful.

620
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 2: Already he is a rich man on the planet, which

621
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 2: means that you inherently have tremendous power. He has obviously

622
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 2: the most influenced in the Trump administration of any other actor,

623
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 2: and including has kind of like come up against has

624
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 2: already gone to war with the Magabase, and one has

625
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 2: already you know, gotten his priorities realized through Spike in

626
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 2: that spending deal that had restraints on in high tech investment.

627
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 5: In China that was important to him. He got that

628
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 5: stripped down.

629
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 2: So he has won every battle in terms of the

630
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 2: Trump administration thus far. We'll see where it goes from here.

631
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 2: So he has that going form. He owns Twitter, which

632
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 2: has continues to be extremely influential both obviously now it's

633
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 2: like the beating heart of the like Maga Republican movement,

634
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 2: but it also continues, I think, to be incredibly influential

635
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 2: in terms of elite opinion and understanding of political trends.

636
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 2: I think it's probably an undersold factor, to be honest

637
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 2: with you, in some of the sort of like you know,

638
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 2: more maga receptivity shift.

639
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 5: Among a lot of elites.

640
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 2: I mean, number one, they're looking out for Okay, we

641
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 2: don't want to be thrown in prison, we don't want

642
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 2: our contracts canceled, et cetera, et cetera. But also if

643
00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 2: you're taking in the conversation on Twitter, you're assessing if

644
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 2: if you're extrapolating that to how the country feels at large, Well,

645
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 2: Twitter is a very right wing space now, so that's

646
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 2: going to impact how you view the opinions of the

647
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 2: country at large. So he owns Twitter, and now if

648
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 2: you own TikTok as well, like the app among young people,

649
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 2: and you're able to influence like twitterify what's going on

650
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 2: there as well and boost your own brand and your

651
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 2: own self interests, et cetera. Like that is a colossal

652
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 2: amount of power to be vested in one unelected individual,

653
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 2: and you know, so his like the previous hawkish orientation

654
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 2: towards China, I would be skeptical that that continues under

655
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 2: the Trump administration this time around, because it does not

656
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 2: serve Elon's interest obviously was very important to him to

657
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 2: get to win in this H one B fight. Appears

658
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 2: that he has one in that H one B fight.

659
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 2: It's certainly any sort of like you know, contracts that

660
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 2: he wants for his companies whatever. He's already a massive

661
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:05,239
Speaker 2: government contractor these regulatory fights that he's engaged in with

662
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 2: various federal crubent agencies. I'm sure those are all going

663
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 2: to go away. Concerns from the SEC about market manipulation,

664
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 2: from the Labor Department about discrimination, all of those about

665
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 2: from the NLRB about union bus, all of those things

666
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 2: are going to be gone.

667
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 5: Like he really is going.

668
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 2: To have both tremendous political, financial, and cultural power. He

669
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 2: already does, but TikTok would just further expand the amount

670
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 2: of power that this one individual would have. There's one

671
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 2: person in the MAGA movement who is not taking this

672
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 2: line down. Yes, sucker, Steve Bannon put this up on

673
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 2: the screen from USA today. They had all the juicy

674
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 2: quotes from Steve Bannon, who didn't interview.

675
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 5: This was in like an.

676
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 2: Italian newspaper, I think, which is why we don't have

677
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 2: like a video of him saying it.

678
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 5: This was all.

679
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 2: In the context of that interview, he calls Elon Musk

680
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 2: an evil guy and vows to stop his influence over Trump.

681
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 2: Good luck with that in any case. Let me read

682
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 2: you some of these juicy quotes. He says before, because

683
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 2: he put money in, I was prepared to tolerate it,

684
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 2: referring to the two hundred and fifty million dollars must

685
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 2: contributed in the twenty twenty four campaign to help Trump's election,

686
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,440
Speaker 2: I'm not prepared to tolerate it anymore. Which let me

687
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 2: just pause there and say, I don't know what you

688
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:16,880
Speaker 2: thought you were getting, buddy, but no one puts in

689
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 2: two hundred and fifty million dollars and thinks they're getting

690
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 2: nothing out of it. And Elon's ideology was very easily

691
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 2: ascertainable before this moment. So I don't know what you

692
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 2: thought you were getting in this deal, but anyway, this

693
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 2: was entirely predictable. He goes on to say, not only

694
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 2: is he a truly evil guy, I will take this

695
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:39,959
Speaker 2: guy down, He says, I will have Elon Musk run

696
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 2: out of hereby inaugeration day. I doubt it before, and

697
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 2: then he goes on to say the thing about the money.

698
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:47,720
Speaker 2: Then he says he should go back to South Africa.

699
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 2: Why do we have South Africans the most racist people

700
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 2: on earth, White South Africans making any comments at all

701
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 2: on what goes on in the United States.

702
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 5: We've seen peak el on.

703
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 2: His intrusive nature, is lack of understanding of the true issues,

704
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,439
Speaker 2: and quite frankly, is support of just himself. The sole

705
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:08,840
Speaker 2: objective is to become a trillionaire. That's his objective is

706
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 2: aggregation of wealth and then through wealth power, That's what

707
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 2: he's focused on. The American working people in this country

708
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 2: are not going to tolerate it.

709
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 5: I don't know. They seem likely tolerated certainly.

710
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:22,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was like, by the way, Lelon is enormously

711
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:24,720
Speaker 1: popular with the Republican Party. Sorry.

712
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 3: He also expanded on some of this in video. Let's

713
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 3: take a listen.

714
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,360
Speaker 8: He's got a glass draw he can't take because of

715
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 8: the I don't know, the autism worries on the spectrum.

716
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 8: He's clearly not He's got the maturity of a loven

717
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 8: year old, you can tell that, but he's it's obvious

718
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 8: he can't take criticism. One of his weaknesses is that

719
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 8: he needs to be loved. He needs the masses to

720
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 8: love him. You can tell he's on the stage. He

721
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 8: needs that glory. This is to have a digital ghetto

722
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 8: and to only have raised up what praises him. That

723
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 8: that's the that's the that is like the little boy's mentality.

724
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:02,799
Speaker 8: If I want to be the superhero, I want to

725
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 8: put the cape on and kind of skip around. You

726
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 8: see this a lot in Danbury. These what they call Chomo's,

727
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 8: what they call the these sex offenders. They've got this

728
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 8: meant they've had a maturity level that has stopped and

729
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 8: they want to you know, they want to be They

730
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 8: all watch the movies that have the Cape Crusaders on there.

731
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: Wow, very powerful.

732
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 3: Here Steve Bannon expand on his experience in federal prison.

733
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 3: But the danference to Danbury's in Connecticut, it's a I

734
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:35,760
Speaker 3: think it's a low security facility where they also house

735
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:36,799
Speaker 3: sex offenders.

736
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 1: So for context, that's where that comes from.

737
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 3: Also, Yeah, Vivek Ramaswami has not been heard from in

738
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,359
Speaker 3: quite a long time. Let's put this up there on

739
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 3: the screen. This was his last tweet January third, twenty

740
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 3: twenty five. It is currently January fourteenth, the day that

741
00:36:54,760 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 3: we are filming this he's been completely disappeared from doze, tweets,

742
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:01,400
Speaker 3: from mention.

743
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 1: In the press.

744
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 3: This is a guy who probably I mean, what should

745
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 3: we say. He's been tweeting NonStop for I want to

746
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 3: say four years.

747
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 5: I would say, yeah, that's probably right.

748
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:13,439
Speaker 1: It's crazy. I've not even baked for a long time.

749
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 2: Way before he was every cultural conversation. I mean, he's

750
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,320
Speaker 2: a he's a pro at like getting attention, getting to

751
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:22,799
Speaker 2: sell for some Fox News and selling his book and

752
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:23,760
Speaker 2: some Fox News.

753
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 3: Brand wrote his book in twenty twenty one. I still

754
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 3: have the dms like it could have come on your

755
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 3: show to talking about book and uh, the anti woke book. Yeah,

756
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,799
Speaker 3: exactly vague. It's been a while and heard, uh. And

757
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 3: he's a poster. He's look, you gotta give it to him.

758
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 3: He's smart, and he posted his way to name recognition

759
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 3: and a significant, you know, presence in the Republican Party.

760
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:49,799
Speaker 3: You have to respect that to a certain extent. But

761
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 3: a huge part of that was Twitter and elite conversation.

762
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,919
Speaker 3: Is wealth, the stunts, cultivating his relationships, et cetera.

763
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,919
Speaker 1: And he has been unheard. Come nobody has heard from him.

764
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,320
Speaker 3: I genuinely it might be one of the longest stretches

765
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 3: in the last four years that he has not tried

766
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 3: to insert himself in the conversation, especially for somebody who

767
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 3: loves and craze attention so much, so it's pretty extraordinary

768
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 3: that nobody has. And look, there could be problems between him,

769
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 3: and there could be problems between him and Elon, right,

770
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 3: but from from the previous posts that he's made, there

771
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 3: could be problems that are happening in terms of him

772
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 3: causing the shutdown. Previously people got really really upset with

773
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 3: him and Elon over that Elon is too powerful, So

774
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 3: maybe they take out the vig. Maybe Trump just called

775
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 3: him and was like, hey, you're done. You're not posting anymore.

776
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,840
Speaker 1: But nobody knows what it is, so we'll see matt lestweated.

777
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 2: Imagine being a month from power and you blow your

778
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,359
Speaker 2: career up with a rant about the phrenology of Save

779
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:42,839
Speaker 2: by the Bell.

780
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 1: You know. Okay, so I don't watch Save by the Bell.

781
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 1: I've never seen the show.

782
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 3: But apparently the character who he said he didn't like

783
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:54,959
Speaker 3: actually got a higher says back, I didn't know that.

784
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 5: That is like, okay, you got to not like dad?

785
00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 2: Is like, no, I've watched it's like the you know,

786
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 2: start of a nerdy, dorky like kind of goofy character,

787
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:06,279
Speaker 2: and so he was saying like, oh, we should be

788
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:07,280
Speaker 2: lionizing screech.

789
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:09,439
Speaker 5: But yeah, if you know you're saved by the bell lore.

790
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 5: You know that Zach actually got like a.

791
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:15,240
Speaker 2: Fifteen hundred on his destib I did not or whatever anyway, whatever,

792
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 2: it was stupid that he called white people lazy and

793
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:18,360
Speaker 2: now they disappeared.

794
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 5: The party effectively.

795
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 2: My read is that he's effectively taking the.

796
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 5: Fall for Elon.

797
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 2: Yes, you know that Trump was probably irritated by this

798
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 2: whole fracas in his coalition. He didn't like it, and

799
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 2: so he's really I mean, this is all I'm just speculating,

800
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 2: but I suspect he looked at this post for me

801
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 2: from the VACAN was like, what the hell are you

802
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 2: thinking about with this, because it really did, you know,

803
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:47,280
Speaker 2: putting all of the like policy debate aside. Like Trump's

804
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:51,880
Speaker 2: whole thing is he realigned the Republican Party towards a

805
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 2: non college educated base centered around the white working class.

806
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 5: And now that screed from the VAC is.

807
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 2: Like a direct indictment of white working class culture. I mean,

808
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 2: if Hillary Clinton tweeted something like forget about it, like

809
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:10,359
Speaker 2: they would be meltdown, everyone would be so enrayed blah

810
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,399
Speaker 2: blah blah, and so big does that And now, yeah,

811
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 2: he hasn't really been heard fro him, So it is

812
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:17,360
Speaker 2: kind of funny just to go back quickly with a

813
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 2: Bannon Musk war. Like, as I said before, that war

814
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 2: for Bannon has already lost.

815
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:27,840
Speaker 5: It was lost when that deal was made.

816
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 2: For all the money to go into the Trump campaign,

817
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 2: like Elon was going to get what he wants out

818
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 2: of this administration. And I think there's a Bannon is

819
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 2: an ideological person, right. He has a very structured, thought

820
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 2: out worldview that he is relatively consistent in applying. The

821
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 2: only way he's really not consistent in applying it is

822
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:52,280
Speaker 2: when Trump fails him. There's never any smoke for Trump.

823
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 2: It's only for you know, the people around Trump who

824
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:55,319
Speaker 2: always mislead him.

825
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:57,280
Speaker 5: It's never Trump's fault, blah blah blah blah blah.

826
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 2: But he has a well thought out ideological worldview. And

827
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 2: I think he assumed that the maga Bass really you know,

828
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 2: I'm not talking about like the online influence. I'm talking

829
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 2: about the random rank and file people throughout the country

830
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 2: voted for Donald Trump right that they were similarly ideologically driven,

831
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:17,360
Speaker 2: And I just don't think that's true.

832
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 5: I mean not to say that there aren't some.

833
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 2: Like desires of policy impetuses, but at the end of

834
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 2: the day, what we've seen with Trump is it doesn't

835
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:25,360
Speaker 2: matter where he is on an issue.

836
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 5: What matters is.

837
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,440
Speaker 2: People will support him wherever he is on the issue.

838
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 2: I mean, the thing he said, he understood it far

839
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:33,319
Speaker 2: better than Steve bannoned it when he said I could

840
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 2: shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and they would still support me.

841
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 5: The only area where I've.

842
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:44,400
Speaker 2: Ever seen the base pushback on Donald Trump is around vaccines.

843
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true.

844
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:46,880
Speaker 5: That's really the only area.

845
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 2: And the one person that gots really spiked outside of

846
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 2: Matt Gates, which was like that's kind of a separate story,

847
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:54,280
Speaker 2: but the one person who got spiked by the MAGA

848
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 2: base in terms of this confirmation process with some sheriff

849
00:41:57,960 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 2: who had done like COVID lockdown.

850
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 7: Oh yeah, yeah, Fordea, that was the one that there

851
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 7: was a real like grassroots we aren't going to have

852
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 7: this guy shut down churches during COVID, Like that's the

853
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 7: one area where I've seen Trump be pushing on the

854
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 7: base on everything else.

855
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 2: Like his main accomplishment in this first term was a

856
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:19,880
Speaker 2: tax cut for the rich. It wasn't looking out for

857
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 2: the working class. There's been so many on TikTok, he

858
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 2: totally changes his colors. It doesn't matter. On you know,

859
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:29,839
Speaker 2: on crypto, he totally changes his colors. It doesn't matter.

860
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:32,919
Speaker 2: There's no backlash at any of that. It wasn't even

861
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 2: on H one b Right, this is as core to

862
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 2: the Trumpest view of the world as it could possibly

863
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 2: be about foreign workers coming in taking American jobs, blah

864
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 2: blah blah. He sides with Elon. Has there been a

865
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 2: mass Backlashicut No, No.

866
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:48,799
Speaker 1: Not at all.

867
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,239
Speaker 2: Few online influencers and they buy and large by the

868
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:53,400
Speaker 2: time he weighed in, shut their mouths and got with

869
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 2: the program too. So if you're expecting some sort of

870
00:42:56,719 --> 00:43:01,800
Speaker 2: grassroots maga revolt against Elon and you know, in favor

871
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:06,400
Speaker 2: of some ideological version of Trump, like, don't hold your breath,

872
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 2: it's not coming. It's never happened in the past, it's

873
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:10,919
Speaker 2: not gonna happen now. Outside of this one narrow thing

874
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:12,239
Speaker 2: of the way they feel about Zachon.

875
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 1: I don't disagree with any of that.

876
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:15,920
Speaker 3: I do think that Bannon, to the extent that he

877
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:18,360
Speaker 3: could be successful, is only in whispering. And Trump's he

878
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:19,840
Speaker 3: or Trump does seem to trust him. You know, he

879
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 3: likes him, they talk on the phone, etc. But you know,

880
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 3: Ben is just going to be doing a show. He's

881
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 3: not going to be in the White House or even

882
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:28,839
Speaker 3: in the way that he was in the first term.

883
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 3: He can cry his best, but he's only one of

884
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 3: a variety of side characters.

885
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:34,440
Speaker 1: So there we go.

886
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:36,879
Speaker 3: All right, We've got Matt Stoller standing by to talk

887
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:37,800
Speaker 3: about Mark Zuckerberg.

888
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 1: Let's get to it.

889
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 2: So we are very pleased to be joined this morning

890
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 2: by our great friend Matt Stiller, who writes the big

891
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:49,920
Speaker 2: substack or yeah, big newsletter over there on Substack, That's

892
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:51,880
Speaker 2: what I'm trying to say, and also as a researcher

893
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 2: at the American Economic Liberties Project.

894
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 5: Great to see you, my friends.

895
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:57,839
Speaker 6: Good to see you man, Hey, thanks thanks for having me.

896
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 2: So we saw Mark Zuckerberg on the Joe podcast saying

897
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:04,400
Speaker 2: some very interesting things and immediately thought the person that

898
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 2: we want to hear from on this is Matt Stoller.

899
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:09,760
Speaker 5: Specifically, he he made.

900
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 2: Kind of a similar move to Mark andresen of let

901
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 2: me talk about some like cultural things that I think

902
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:19,399
Speaker 2: will resonate with the Republican like conservative base, and let

903
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 2: me go ahead. And then you turn into trashing the

904
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:26,279
Speaker 2: Consumer Financial Protection Bureau and any other agencies that are

905
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 2: trying to come after and regulate my businesses.

906
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:30,399
Speaker 5: Let's take a listen to a little bit of how

907
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 5: that went.

908
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 9: They want us to take down this meme of Leonardo

909
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 9: DiCaprio looking at a TV talking about how ten years

910
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 9: from now or something, you know, you're going to see

911
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 9: an ad that says, okay, if you took a COVID vaccine,

912
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 9: your eligible you know, like for this kind of payment.

913
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 9: Like so this sort of like class action lawsuit type meme.

914
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 9: And they're like, no, you have to take that down.

915
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 9: We said, no, we're not. We're not actually take down

916
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 9: humor and satire. We're not going to take down things

917
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 9: that are that are true. And then at some point,

918
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 9: I guess, uh, do it flipped a bit? I mean

919
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 9: Biden when he was he gave some statement at some point,

920
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:09,360
Speaker 9: I don't know if his press conference or to some

921
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:11,640
Speaker 9: journalists where basically was like, these guys are killing people

922
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 9: and and and I don't know then like all these

923
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:22,240
Speaker 9: different agencies and branches of government basically just like started

924
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 9: investigating coming after our company.

925
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 1: It was it was brutal.

926
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:28,600
Speaker 9: It was brutal, and we had organizations that were looking

927
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 9: into us that were like not really involved with social media,

928
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 9: Like I like the CFPB, like this financial I don't

929
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:37,359
Speaker 9: even know what it stands for. It's the it's the

930
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:43,360
Speaker 9: financial organization that Elizabeth Warren had set up. Oh great,

931
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 9: and it's basically it's like we're not a bank that yeah,

932
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:51,320
Speaker 9: so we're not a bank, right, It's like like what

933
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:53,279
Speaker 9: what does meta have to do with this? But they

934
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 9: kind of found some theory that they wanted to investigate,

935
00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 9: and it's like okay, clearly they were trying really hard,

936
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:01,920
Speaker 9: right to like find find some theory. But it like,

937
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:04,720
Speaker 9: I don't know, it just it kind of like throughout

938
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:08,919
Speaker 9: the the the party and the government, there's just sort

939
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:10,319
Speaker 9: of I don't know if it's I don't know how

940
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 9: this stuff works. I mean, I've never been in government.

941
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 9: I don't know if it's like a directive or it's

942
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:15,880
Speaker 9: just like a quiet consensus that like we don't like

943
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 9: these guys, they're not doing what we want.

944
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 6: We're going to punish them.

945
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 5: Probably the most.

946
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 2: The part of that that irritates me the most is

947
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 2: him playing dumb like he doesn't know what the Consumer

948
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:25,799
Speaker 2: Financial Protection Bureau is. But in any case, Matt, if

949
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 2: you could break down what he had to say there

950
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:29,480
Speaker 2: and what you think he's really up to.

951
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:31,719
Speaker 6: Yeah, so.

952
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:35,879
Speaker 10: It the whole thing is, it's one of these things

953
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 10: where there's it's so there's so much dishonesty packed it

954
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 10: as such a short amount of time, it's hard to

955
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 10: convey it. But like, let's just start with the timing. Okay,

956
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 10: So Mark Zuckerberg is pretending that he doesn't know anything

957
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 10: about banking regulation and that the only time that he

958
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 10: encountered it is when you know, they were scuffling with

959
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:57,800
Speaker 10: the Biden administration over COVID speech and then all of

960
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:00,399
Speaker 10: a sudden, this random bureau that he's now ever heard

961
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 10: of when after him. Okay, So one of his first

962
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 10: early major hires was Cheryl Sandberg and she worked at Treasury.

963
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 10: Right she was Larry Summers's chief of staff at Treasury,

964
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:15,920
Speaker 10: and he hired her.

965
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 6: Explicitly because of that.

966
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 10: He said, he said, Facebook is more like a government

967
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:21,320
Speaker 10: than a business. We're really setting policies.

968
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:21,959
Speaker 6: That's why we're.

969
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:27,360
Speaker 10: Hiring Cheryl Sandberg. I don't know why people forget about this,

970
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 10: but Facebook tried to launch a currency.

971
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 6: Can you remember that?

972
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, he all covered it together.

973
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:36,719
Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, yeah, I mean like I mean we yeah,

974
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:37,719
Speaker 6: it not hidden. Right.

975
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 10: Mark Zuckerberg testified before the banking committees in Congress, right,

976
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:45,319
Speaker 10: I mean he's testified before the committee saying, here are

977
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:47,440
Speaker 10: all the things we want to do with our payments

978
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 10: with our new currency system. And he defended him himself

979
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 10: and said that these are all of the things we're

980
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:57,880
Speaker 10: doing with regulators. And this is during the Trump administration,

981
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:02,879
Speaker 10: and the Trump administration killed Libra, which was the currency system, right,

982
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 10: So it's not like this stuff's started under Biden. It

983
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 10: started way before Biden, way before COVID. And they have

984
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 10: a money transfer licenses in states, I think forty nine

985
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:18,720
Speaker 10: out of fifty states, and they've had them for years.

986
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 10: They have a system called Meta pay, they have a

987
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:25,480
Speaker 10: payment system. They want to become a payments network, and

988
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:28,359
Speaker 10: they are a payments network and they've been regulated.

989
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:29,279
Speaker 6: That way for a long time.

990
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 10: So Mark Zuckerberg knows about that, and he's just pretending otherwise.

991
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 6: So that he can frame himself.

992
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 10: As a as somebody who's currying favor with Trump, just

993
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 10: like in twenty twenty, twenty twenty one he was trying

994
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:46,400
Speaker 10: to curry favor with Biden by pretending to be progressive.

995
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 10: He doesn't care about any of this stuff. He doesn't

996
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 10: care about censorship, he doesn't care about He cares about

997
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 10: policy concessions that he wants from the government.

998
00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 6: And I can go into a list of those policy concessions.

999
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:02,400
Speaker 10: But like, what this guy is standing for is himself

1000
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 10: and making more money, and that is that's really all

1001
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:06,840
Speaker 10: he That's really all he wants. And to do that

1002
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 10: at this point, with so much money and power that

1003
00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 10: he has, he needs favors from the US government.

1004
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:12,800
Speaker 6: That's what he's trying to get from Trump.

1005
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:15,520
Speaker 3: What I was really interested is to see is you know,

1006
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 3: he really is a weather vein in some respects. So

1007
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:21,360
Speaker 3: he follows the Twitter decision to take down Donald Trump

1008
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:24,840
Speaker 3: after January sixth. Previously in the twenty twenty election, he

1009
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:28,279
Speaker 3: donates all this money to kind of pro democratic causes.

1010
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:31,320
Speaker 3: He has now reversed DEI in his com Actually, I

1011
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 3: think we have that tweet. Can we put it up

1012
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 3: there on the screen. All of the things that Meta

1013
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:38,799
Speaker 3: and Mark Zuckerberg have done now in the last week

1014
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:41,839
Speaker 3: or so, brought back political content and to d hired

1015
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:44,440
Speaker 3: a MAGA com staffer, elevated Joel Kaplan, got rid of

1016
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:47,360
Speaker 3: fact checking, donated to the Trump inauguration, added Dana White

1017
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 3: to his board of directors, goes tomorro a Lago, goes

1018
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:51,919
Speaker 3: to Rogan, and we have all of these things.

1019
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 2: He moves to Texas with him my views in some

1020
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 2: ways the.

1021
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 3: While yeah, moving the content moderation and takes, which is

1022
00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 3: equally hilarious. All of that tells us what is that

1023
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:02,720
Speaker 3: this is a person who is trying to curry favor

1024
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:06,040
Speaker 3: with the incoming administration. You just talked about the actual

1025
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 3: political concessions, but let's get into that because we have

1026
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:13,840
Speaker 3: these slawsuits that are going on against Mark Zuckerberg, against Meta,

1027
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:16,640
Speaker 3: We have many Republican ags and others which have now

1028
00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:20,560
Speaker 3: longstanding legal theories and cases against this company.

1029
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:22,240
Speaker 1: What do they have.

1030
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:24,880
Speaker 3: To lose if things don't go their way under a

1031
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 3: second Trump administration?

1032
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:29,320
Speaker 10: You know, So as you were talking, I just remembered

1033
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:31,359
Speaker 10: something else which I think will really take it.

1034
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 6: Out of the partisan to the partisan context. You remember

1035
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 6: a while back when.

1036
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 10: Mark Zuckerg was trying to get into China and he

1037
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 10: asked Jijingping, the president of the leader of China, to

1038
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:46,160
Speaker 10: name his firstbornshaw.

1039
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:46,840
Speaker 1: I do remember that?

1040
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, right?

1041
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:49,400
Speaker 10: I mean, so this is not like a guy that

1042
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 10: has strong principles, right, this is a guy like or

1043
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:53,960
Speaker 10: at least he does. But they're about, you know, promoting

1044
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:56,840
Speaker 10: Mark Zuckerberg at Facebook's interest or Meta's interest, whatever they

1045
00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:58,840
Speaker 10: want to call it. So what does Mark Zuckerberg, what

1046
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:03,600
Speaker 10: does Facebook actually want? Facebook has a number of legal problems.

1047
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 10: The first is the there's an anti trust suit that

1048
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:10,120
Speaker 10: the Trump administration brought in twenty twenty and Mark Zuckerberg

1049
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:14,279
Speaker 10: has called the anti trust an existential threat to his company, right,

1050
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 10: and that will go to trial in twenty twenty five.

1051
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 10: Google lost a kind of similar case and is likely

1052
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:25,080
Speaker 10: to lose another one. So Mark Zuberger knows that he

1053
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:26,759
Speaker 10: could be in a lot of trouble and he wants

1054
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:29,080
Speaker 10: that to go away. He wants the Trump administration to

1055
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:32,360
Speaker 10: settle that. There's also a you know, remember the Cambridge

1056
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:36,920
Speaker 10: Analytica scandal where they got fined by five billion dollars

1057
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:40,760
Speaker 10: by the Trump administries. The Trump FTC, so they continue

1058
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:43,759
Speaker 10: to violate their promises to the government. And finally the

1059
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:50,239
Speaker 10: Federal Trade Commission said, you can no longer track children, right,

1060
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:54,279
Speaker 10: you can't advertise to children, use it targeting advertising. And

1061
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:58,360
Speaker 10: when you release new products, you have to get prior

1062
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 10: approval because you have consists distantly violated your promises to

1063
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:04,280
Speaker 10: the government like three or two or three or four times,

1064
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:07,799
Speaker 10: and they are in a big legal fight over that.

1065
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 10: That would be a huge problem for them. And because

1066
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:12,840
Speaker 10: they want to advertise to children, because it's good business

1067
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:16,319
Speaker 10: to addict children, and uh so they want that to

1068
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:18,840
Speaker 10: go to go away, right, That's that's another thing that

1069
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:19,280
Speaker 10: they want.

1070
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:21,839
Speaker 6: They also Meta pay right.

1071
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:24,880
Speaker 10: They want to become a big you know, payments network,

1072
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 10: and Mark Zuckerberg talked about that that's part of the

1073
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 10: VR strategy, the augmented reality strates. It's part of what

1074
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:32,680
Speaker 10: they you know, making the world more open and connected.

1075
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 10: They that is what he talked about partly on Joe Rogan.

1076
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:38,799
Speaker 10: That involves finance, so he's going to be regulated by

1077
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:43,360
Speaker 10: the financial regulators, and the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau implemented

1078
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 10: a new rule to treat companies like Meta in Google

1079
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 10: and Amazon and other companies that have big payment networks

1080
00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:55,080
Speaker 10: to treat them like banks because that's what they're operating. Like,

1081
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:58,480
Speaker 10: if you are handling someone's money, then you should be

1082
00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 10: traded like either a bank orancial utility or a credit

1083
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:05,920
Speaker 10: rating agency like that's you know that the that's all

1084
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:08,200
Speaker 10: financial regulations. So they want that to go to way.

1085
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:14,880
Speaker 10: Another example of something that Mark Zuckerberg needs is he

1086
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:21,040
Speaker 10: has been training their AI model on illegally downloaded content.

1087
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:24,880
Speaker 10: He personally gave the order to train on content that

1088
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 10: was downloaded via illegal means. And so they want certain

1089
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:34,800
Speaker 10: changes to copyright law so that they can continue to

1090
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:41,080
Speaker 10: expropriate content from people who make copyright and material, including us, right,

1091
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:43,640
Speaker 10: I mean this is all copyrighted material, and train their

1092
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:47,200
Speaker 10: AI audit so they can replicate our styles and systems

1093
00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:49,359
Speaker 10: and make money off of that. Some of the things

1094
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:52,160
Speaker 10: he wants are not bad, right, Like he's really mad

1095
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:55,200
Speaker 10: at Apple over the thirty percent app charge and the

1096
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:58,680
Speaker 10: government has an anti trust case against Apple partly over that,

1097
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 10: so he would want that to continue.

1098
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:01,440
Speaker 6: You. And then the.

1099
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:05,160
Speaker 10: Other thing that he's been asking for is for the

1100
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:09,839
Speaker 10: government to the US government to protect Facebook when they

1101
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:12,279
Speaker 10: go abroad, so there's a lot of foreign entities that

1102
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:17,279
Speaker 10: are regulating Facebook and Meta and WhatsApp like communication systems. Right,

1103
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 10: your domestic communication system, you're going to be regulated by

1104
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 10: that domestic government. And so he wants Trump to protect

1105
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 10: Facebook from rules around you know, whatever foreign company countries

1106
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:32,279
Speaker 10: are trying to get.

1107
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:37,279
Speaker 6: And sometimes that's not great. Sometimes it is great, you.

1108
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 10: Know whatever, but it's like, look, if you're operating in

1109
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:42,719
Speaker 10: a foreign country, you have to obey their laws. And

1110
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:46,120
Speaker 10: Mark Zuckerberg wants the US government to put pressure on

1111
00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:49,080
Speaker 10: foreign countries that are imposing laws that prevent him from

1112
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:49,800
Speaker 10: making more money.

1113
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:50,520
Speaker 6: There's a lot of.

1114
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:52,960
Speaker 10: Other things that they want as well. There's an H

1115
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:54,719
Speaker 10: one V visa thing. You know, they have a lot

1116
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 10: of visa engineers. They've been violating labor law on that.

1117
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:00,640
Speaker 10: There's kind of a ton of stuf that they want.

1118
00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:05,040
Speaker 10: But effectively, at this point, Metta is a creature of policy,

1119
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:09,000
Speaker 10: and so what he has to do to continue to

1120
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 10: grow or even to not be constrained or not have

1121
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:16,320
Speaker 10: his company broken up, is to capture the policymakers.

1122
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:17,759
Speaker 6: And so that's what he's trying to do.

1123
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:19,960
Speaker 10: That's what he's always try to do, whether it's China,

1124
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:23,000
Speaker 10: whether it's the progressives and Democrats, whether it's people all

1125
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:26,680
Speaker 10: over the policymakers all over the world, whatever it is,

1126
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:28,440
Speaker 10: that's just who he is and what he's trying to do.

1127
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 2: Last question for you, Matt, what role is Rogan serving

1128
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:35,759
Speaker 2: in this? Because he just had obviously Zuckerberg, and he

1129
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:39,040
Speaker 2: had Elon Muskon recently, had Peter teal On recently. We

1130
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:42,120
Speaker 2: talked to you previously about Marc Andreesen, who also took

1131
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:46,799
Speaker 2: him specifically at CFPB and some of the way that

1132
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:50,160
Speaker 2: he portrayed the CFPB clearly had landed with Rogan because

1133
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 2: he kind of reiterates that view to Zuckerberg and said,

1134
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:56,879
Speaker 2: oh yeah, Elizabeth Warren's agency that does the banging, which

1135
00:55:56,960 --> 00:55:59,640
Speaker 2: is just like total incomplete bullshit. But in any case,

1136
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:03,640
Speaker 2: what role is Rogan serving? Why are they feeling like

1137
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:06,839
Speaker 2: this is the place to go and try to effectively

1138
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:11,520
Speaker 2: fleece the magabase and convince them that their cultural goals

1139
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:15,080
Speaker 2: are in line with happen to line up with these

1140
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:16,400
Speaker 2: companies financial interests.

1141
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 10: Yeah, I I mean it's kind of sad. I have

1142
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:23,799
Speaker 10: been a like, I like listening to Joe Rogan. He's

1143
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:26,279
Speaker 10: he's a really good interviewer. I like, you know, I've

1144
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:28,920
Speaker 10: listened to him for years. Not you know, I'm not

1145
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:32,120
Speaker 10: a religious devotee or anything, but I listen to him

1146
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:35,480
Speaker 10: sometimes and I like, I like him. He's a he's

1147
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:39,760
Speaker 10: a cool interviewer. It's not annoying. He's generally been open minded.

1148
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:42,640
Speaker 10: But what has been disturbing or you know, it's just

1149
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:45,399
Speaker 10: kind of like maybe how he's going is that he's

1150
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:50,600
Speaker 10: just become essentially like a new Rushlan Ball right. And

1151
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:54,160
Speaker 10: it isn't that he's a partisan Republican, although he's kind

1152
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:55,759
Speaker 10: of you know, most a lot of the guests he's

1153
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:58,640
Speaker 10: invited on or you know, even when they're cultural, he

1154
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:02,680
Speaker 10: sometimes pushes them on poultics. It's not that he's a

1155
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:06,839
Speaker 10: partisan Republican, though, It's that he's taken the kind of

1156
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:10,919
Speaker 10: Wall Street, big business, big tech part of the Republican

1157
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:15,000
Speaker 10: apparatus as opposed to the kind of right new right

1158
00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:18,160
Speaker 10: Josh Hawlly sort of JD Vance approach.

1159
00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:18,360
Speaker 1: Right.

1160
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 6: He's not suspicious of corporate power.

1161
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:22,600
Speaker 10: Although he says, you know, he is, and then he

1162
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:25,160
Speaker 10: has Mark Zuckerberg on and doesn't really challenge him, and

1163
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:27,640
Speaker 10: has Mark Indriesen on and has elon musk On and

1164
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:30,840
Speaker 10: just is like, Oh, the big problem is the regulatory

1165
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:34,600
Speaker 10: agency that's trying to stop poor people from like being scammed.

1166
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:35,200
Speaker 6: By overdraft fees.

1167
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:38,800
Speaker 10: Except he says it's you know, they're engaged in censorship,

1168
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:41,720
Speaker 10: which isn't true. And it's just like sad to watch

1169
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:45,280
Speaker 10: that because there is this really interesting populist part of

1170
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:47,640
Speaker 10: the GOPM and you guys were just talking about it,

1171
00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:52,160
Speaker 10: and yet Rogan has kind of moved away from that,

1172
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:54,840
Speaker 10: and so to me, it's it feels very much like

1173
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:59,880
Speaker 10: listening to Pravda, Like just it just kind of it,

1174
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:02,200
Speaker 10: you know, it just kind of sucks to be like, oh,

1175
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:04,080
Speaker 10: this guy used to be really good and now you're

1176
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 10: like you're getting sort of weird lies from him about

1177
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:11,800
Speaker 10: you know that are coming from Wall Street billionaires.

1178
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:14,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would, I look love Joe obviously we've been

1179
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:16,360
Speaker 3: on the show. I think a lot of it is

1180
00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:20,600
Speaker 3: just the tech people themselves are skilled at this, and

1181
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:23,400
Speaker 3: if you're not equipped with the backstory, as you and

1182
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:27,400
Speaker 3: I just discussed. We know about Libra, the xijingping thing,

1183
00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:30,600
Speaker 3: that's longtime low for anybody who's been covering the ins

1184
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:33,160
Speaker 3: and outs of Facebook or of Mark Zuckerberg and his

1185
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:36,080
Speaker 3: various shifts in the winds. It's easy to be convinced,

1186
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:37,520
Speaker 3: you know, if somebody has come to you and like, oh,

1187
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:39,480
Speaker 3: well they wanted us of a sensor, a vaccine thing,

1188
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:41,640
Speaker 3: and then they investigated our company, it's like, well, the

1189
00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:44,680
Speaker 3: investigation started in twenty nineteen, actually under the Donald Trump.

1190
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:48,240
Speaker 1: You know, DJ. These are all the key backstory. But

1191
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 1: we appreciate you coming on as well. Matt. We love

1192
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:52,680
Speaker 1: you and we'll see you again soon.

1193
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:54,840
Speaker 5: Court to see Matt, thank you, thanks for having me.

1194
00:58:57,640 --> 00:58:59,400
Speaker 1: Joining us now is James Fox.

1195
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:02,720
Speaker 3: He is the director documentarian with a new film out

1196
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:06,400
Speaker 3: called The Program. He previously has done Moment of Contact,

1197
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:08,880
Speaker 3: The Phenomenon, I know what I saw out of the blue,

1198
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:11,320
Speaker 3: Moment of Contact, a personal favorite of mind. We've got

1199
00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:12,840
Speaker 3: a trailer and then we're going to be talked to

1200
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:14,600
Speaker 3: James himself. Let's take a listen.

1201
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:18,000
Speaker 1: In twenty seventeen, The New York Times.

1202
00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:24,760
Speaker 8: Published a story exposing a secret government program investigating UFOs.

1203
00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:28,160
Speaker 10: That story was kind of a catalyst for a lot

1204
00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:31,040
Speaker 10: of things that have happened since Members of Congress started

1205
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:31,520
Speaker 10: to ask.

1206
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:34,040
Speaker 6: Questions instruments report there is something there.

1207
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:37,000
Speaker 3: There are flight characteristics that we can't explain.

1208
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:40,959
Speaker 6: UAPs are unexplained. It's true, they need to be investigated.

1209
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:43,320
Speaker 6: Here we are.

1210
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:45,720
Speaker 8: Having a hearing where just a few years ago we

1211
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:47,520
Speaker 8: didn't even acknowledge that these things were real.

1212
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:50,720
Speaker 11: Do you believe that our government is in possession of UAPs?

1213
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:51,720
Speaker 6: Absolutely?

1214
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:56,120
Speaker 9: Based on interviewing over forty witnesses over four years.

1215
00:59:55,760 --> 01:00:00,120
Speaker 12: You're telling me people have come forward claiming first hand knowledge.

1216
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:01,600
Speaker 11: Of of non human origin.

1217
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:03,280
Speaker 6: That's correct.

1218
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:07,520
Speaker 3: So, James, you've exposed a lot of new information in

1219
01:00:07,560 --> 01:00:10,120
Speaker 3: this documentary, just as if you have in the past.

1220
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:11,920
Speaker 3: I was in the room for that hearing. Was a

1221
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:14,240
Speaker 3: really exciting moment. Just tell us a little bit about

1222
01:00:14,360 --> 01:00:16,840
Speaker 3: why you decided to make this film after previous ones

1223
01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:19,200
Speaker 3: about specific incidents and some of the big things that

1224
01:00:19,240 --> 01:00:19,680
Speaker 3: you learned.

1225
01:00:20,680 --> 01:00:22,280
Speaker 11: So thanks for the intro.

1226
01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:28,200
Speaker 12: I did the phenomenon, The natural progression was the program.

1227
01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:35,120
Speaker 12: Because the phenomenon hinted at crash retrievals. We went into Roswell,

1228
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:38,520
Speaker 12: but then I took a break and I focused on

1229
01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:41,520
Speaker 12: an alleged UFO crash case that happened in Virginia, Brazil

1230
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:44,120
Speaker 12: in nineteen ninety six, and ultimately made a film about

1231
01:00:44,120 --> 01:00:49,479
Speaker 12: it called Moment of Contact, and the allegation is half

1232
01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:52,440
Speaker 12: the town has heard about it, that a UFO crashed

1233
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:56,960
Speaker 12: and that live aliens were captured, and ultimately the United

1234
01:00:56,960 --> 01:01:00,000
Speaker 12: States flew in And that was an aspect that I'd learned,

1235
01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:03,160
Speaker 12: and on my last trip to Brazil, I investigated the

1236
01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:07,360
Speaker 12: case over twelve years with a partner, Marco Leal who's Brazilian,

1237
01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:10,320
Speaker 12: and a number of other folks. And so my natural

1238
01:01:10,320 --> 01:01:14,920
Speaker 12: progression was, Okay, now that I'm pretty sure the Americans

1239
01:01:14,920 --> 01:01:18,680
Speaker 12: were involved in this crash retrieval, I'm I'm gonna go

1240
01:01:18,720 --> 01:01:21,920
Speaker 12: to Washington, DC, and I'm going to investigate like because

1241
01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:24,240
Speaker 12: the case goes cold. Once the United States Air Force

1242
01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:28,080
Speaker 12: plane took off from a place called Campinas and back

1243
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:31,400
Speaker 12: to the United States. And we have the Brazilian control

1244
01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:34,600
Speaker 12: flight control officer who went on the record just recently

1245
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:40,000
Speaker 12: publicly describing that United States called it USAF United States

1246
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:42,440
Speaker 12: Air Force plane that flew back to the States.

1247
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:43,400
Speaker 11: The case went cold.

1248
01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:47,840
Speaker 12: But little did I know five months after I released

1249
01:01:47,840 --> 01:01:50,240
Speaker 12: a Moment of Contact, there would be a high level

1250
01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:54,720
Speaker 12: intelligence officer testifying under oath to a bipartisan group of

1251
01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:57,960
Speaker 12: lawmakers that we have a crash retrievent program and that

1252
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:01,560
Speaker 12: biologics were So he opened the door for me, and

1253
01:02:01,640 --> 01:02:03,640
Speaker 12: so that made it a lot easier for me to

1254
01:02:03,680 --> 01:02:06,240
Speaker 12: ask those those questions that I never in my thirty

1255
01:02:06,280 --> 01:02:08,440
Speaker 12: year career thought I'd be asking city members of.

1256
01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:13,000
Speaker 11: Congress do we have aliens? Do we have recovered flight

1257
01:02:13,040 --> 01:02:13,680
Speaker 11: and saucers?

1258
01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:15,640
Speaker 12: You know, you'd think they would be asking me to

1259
01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:17,720
Speaker 12: up the doses of the medication that I'm not on.

1260
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:20,840
Speaker 11: But but that's what that's where we are right now.

1261
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:23,120
Speaker 12: And then you look at the legislation that's been written

1262
01:02:23,120 --> 01:02:26,080
Speaker 12: in the NDAA for twenty twenty three and twenty twenty four,

1263
01:02:26,320 --> 01:02:27,040
Speaker 12: it's right there in.

1264
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:27,520
Speaker 11: Black and white.

1265
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:29,600
Speaker 1: You're exactly right to trouble crash.

1266
01:02:29,360 --> 01:02:33,000
Speaker 12: Retrieval materials potentially, and uh, you know legacy program. So

1267
01:02:33,200 --> 01:02:36,240
Speaker 12: it's we're living in unprecedented times right now.

1268
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:39,760
Speaker 3: James, What about the contours of the program were you

1269
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:40,880
Speaker 3: able to uncover?

1270
01:02:40,960 --> 01:02:43,040
Speaker 1: I've been down this rabbit hole now for years.

1271
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:45,360
Speaker 3: One of the most frustrating things I get from fans

1272
01:02:45,400 --> 01:02:48,160
Speaker 3: and others is so like, you guys, tell us it exists,

1273
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:51,200
Speaker 3: but we only know things on the edges, the crumbs

1274
01:02:51,720 --> 01:02:53,600
Speaker 3: and others. You've done the best job in your film

1275
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:55,960
Speaker 3: of actually bringing everything that we know to light and

1276
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:57,400
Speaker 3: what can you give away to us, what can you

1277
01:02:57,440 --> 01:02:58,080
Speaker 3: tell the audience.

1278
01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:00,960
Speaker 12: I would say that one of the the aspects of

1279
01:03:01,040 --> 01:03:04,440
Speaker 12: the film that's jaw dropping a slack job. I think

1280
01:03:04,480 --> 01:03:07,040
Speaker 12: it's the exact terminology that was used. There is a

1281
01:03:07,160 --> 01:03:11,440
Speaker 12: high level government official correspondence with former Deputy Assistant Secretary

1282
01:03:11,480 --> 01:03:15,000
Speaker 12: of Defense for Intelligence Christopher Mellen that he shared He

1283
01:03:15,160 --> 01:03:19,160
Speaker 12: eventually went through the Dopster process of pre publication approval,

1284
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:22,720
Speaker 12: and it's a correspondence between a high level government official.

1285
01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:27,480
Speaker 12: Now in the film, it's got some redactions, but it

1286
01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:30,800
Speaker 12: has the actual name of the gatekeeper to the crash

1287
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:37,360
Speaker 12: retrieval program, and that unredacted version was given to select

1288
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:41,160
Speaker 12: members of Congress, and I'm told people at Arrow, so

1289
01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:45,400
Speaker 12: John Koskolowski theoretically would have the name of the gatekeeper,

1290
01:03:45,480 --> 01:03:48,200
Speaker 12: certainly in twenty twenty of the crash retrieval program.

1291
01:03:48,360 --> 01:03:50,720
Speaker 11: And I think that's an aspect it's huge.

1292
01:03:50,800 --> 01:03:53,120
Speaker 12: I mean that means that there are members of Congress

1293
01:03:53,120 --> 01:03:55,680
Speaker 12: that have the name of who's.

1294
01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:57,360
Speaker 11: In charge of this crash retrieval program or the gatekeeper.

1295
01:03:57,600 --> 01:03:59,320
Speaker 3: Right, we have a gatekeeper, We have a name, and

1296
01:03:59,760 --> 01:04:01,120
Speaker 3: it is a frustrating process.

1297
01:04:01,120 --> 01:04:01,840
Speaker 1: But that's government.

1298
01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:04,360
Speaker 3: It takes a huge effort to make a to reveal

1299
01:04:04,360 --> 01:04:07,280
Speaker 3: a huge secret. That's something that I always say, James,

1300
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:09,640
Speaker 3: with respect to your film, you spent a lot of

1301
01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:13,440
Speaker 3: time here in Washington. What was the receptivity the bipartisanship

1302
01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:14,160
Speaker 3: on this issue?

1303
01:04:14,160 --> 01:04:15,400
Speaker 1: Where you heartened by it?

1304
01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:18,480
Speaker 3: Are you excited about what may be come from the

1305
01:04:18,520 --> 01:04:19,320
Speaker 3: next administration?

1306
01:04:19,920 --> 01:04:22,760
Speaker 11: I am unbelievable.

1307
01:04:22,760 --> 01:04:26,480
Speaker 12: It's so refreshing to see a bipartisan group of lawmakers

1308
01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:30,880
Speaker 12: working together for the American people. It's like, oh, thank you,

1309
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:32,240
Speaker 12: this is such a breath of fresh air.

1310
01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:34,880
Speaker 11: Let's continue this. Who knows that it took you.

1311
01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:38,160
Speaker 12: Know, so called aliens to get us to unite and

1312
01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:42,160
Speaker 12: work together. But I would like to say it's very exciting.

1313
01:04:42,680 --> 01:04:45,240
Speaker 12: Some people feel like things aren't moving fast enough. I'll

1314
01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:48,080
Speaker 12: remind you of someone who's been investigating these field. I've

1315
01:04:48,120 --> 01:04:52,880
Speaker 12: made six documentaries over the last thirty years. We've had

1316
01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:58,200
Speaker 12: three congressional hearings where we've had people testify under oath

1317
01:04:58,640 --> 01:05:04,040
Speaker 12: about the reality of the phenomenon, two people separately, one

1318
01:05:04,120 --> 01:05:07,040
Speaker 12: twenty twenty three David Grush and another one in twenty

1319
01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:10,240
Speaker 12: twenty four, Luel A. Zondo testify under oath to a

1320
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:14,760
Speaker 12: group of bipartisan lawmakers that we have a crash retrieval program.

1321
01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:18,600
Speaker 12: I'm reminded what Cindra Rounds just recently said. I was there,

1322
01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:21,480
Speaker 12: I filmed it. He said, I know, things feel like

1323
01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:24,880
Speaker 12: they're moving slowly. I feel the frustration things aren't happening

1324
01:05:24,920 --> 01:05:28,080
Speaker 12: fast enough. We're not getting enough answers. I'll remind you

1325
01:05:28,120 --> 01:05:30,960
Speaker 12: that we are not running one hundred yard dash. This

1326
01:05:31,040 --> 01:05:35,480
Speaker 12: is a marathon. Stick with us. Can both continue providing

1327
01:05:35,480 --> 01:05:38,760
Speaker 12: support to this bipartisan group of lawmakers and let's get

1328
01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:41,400
Speaker 12: to the bottom of it, because the implications are global

1329
01:05:41,720 --> 01:05:44,720
Speaker 12: and so profound that we owe it to ourselves to

1330
01:05:44,760 --> 01:05:45,800
Speaker 12: continue the support.

1331
01:05:46,160 --> 01:05:48,080
Speaker 3: James, while I have you, one of the things that

1332
01:05:48,200 --> 01:05:51,960
Speaker 3: has captured the nation's attention was this new Jersey drone

1333
01:05:52,080 --> 01:05:56,480
Speaker 3: quote unquote incident, and I'd be curious for your thoughts,

1334
01:05:56,520 --> 01:05:59,560
Speaker 3: not necessarily about the incident itself, but in the context

1335
01:05:59,600 --> 01:06:02,120
Speaker 3: of what you and I know from studying this issue,

1336
01:06:02,440 --> 01:06:06,920
Speaker 3: which is that we have had longtime incidents of unidentified

1337
01:06:06,960 --> 01:06:11,960
Speaker 3: craft being and interfering with US military installations. Some of

1338
01:06:11,960 --> 01:06:13,960
Speaker 3: the video and other I know you talk about some

1339
01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:16,000
Speaker 3: of this in your show. I think the nineteen ninety

1340
01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:19,640
Speaker 3: four incident Ellis Air Force Base, and I'm curious if

1341
01:06:19,640 --> 01:06:22,280
Speaker 3: you could just shed some light about the patterns that

1342
01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:24,720
Speaker 3: we've seen now over the last seventy five years in

1343
01:06:24,760 --> 01:06:28,040
Speaker 3: the United States and how this might fit into that well.

1344
01:06:28,080 --> 01:06:31,040
Speaker 12: I'd say a very good case would be the two

1345
01:06:31,080 --> 01:06:34,080
Speaker 12: consecutive weekends in July of nineteen fifty two where you

1346
01:06:34,120 --> 01:06:38,840
Speaker 12: had incursions by these so called orbs uap UFOs. We

1347
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:41,440
Speaker 12: had military jets scrambled. It was on the front page

1348
01:06:41,480 --> 01:06:45,400
Speaker 12: of every newspaper across the country two consecutive weekends, and

1349
01:06:45,560 --> 01:06:48,200
Speaker 12: we scrambled military jets intercept these things.

1350
01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:49,520
Speaker 11: They flew rings around US.

1351
01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:52,600
Speaker 12: I covered this extensively in the film of the Phenomenon,

1352
01:06:52,680 --> 01:06:56,520
Speaker 12: But that was nineteen fifty two. I mean, they had

1353
01:06:57,240 --> 01:07:01,280
Speaker 12: one of the biggest press conferences with General John Sandford

1354
01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:03,960
Speaker 12: at the time, who basically came forward back in nineteen

1355
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:07,000
Speaker 12: fifty two. I have to keep saying that it said, yeah,

1356
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:09,160
Speaker 12: there's something really inexplicable going on.

1357
01:07:09,280 --> 01:07:11,720
Speaker 11: It's not us. We don't think it's a foreign adversary.

1358
01:07:12,600 --> 01:07:14,640
Speaker 12: We don't know what's going on. And it's like that

1359
01:07:14,720 --> 01:07:18,080
Speaker 12: seems to be a big repeat today. Now I'll remind

1360
01:07:18,120 --> 01:07:20,800
Speaker 12: your audience that, Yeah, the vast majority of UAP of

1361
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:24,000
Speaker 12: UFOs cannon have been explained away in down to earth

1362
01:07:24,040 --> 01:07:26,560
Speaker 12: conventional terms, and I'm sure there's a lot of them

1363
01:07:26,640 --> 01:07:28,800
Speaker 12: up there up in the sky that are being misidentified.

1364
01:07:28,880 --> 01:07:30,360
Speaker 11: Everyone's up in the night sky trying to get a

1365
01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:31,280
Speaker 11: glimpse of these things.

1366
01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:35,200
Speaker 12: But there's a core fifteen or twenty percent, and I

1367
01:07:35,200 --> 01:07:38,800
Speaker 12: think that these recent drones sidings will ultimately a core

1368
01:07:38,880 --> 01:07:42,320
Speaker 12: fifteen twenty percent that seemed to defy a terrestrial or

1369
01:07:42,360 --> 01:07:45,320
Speaker 12: a conventional explanation. Could I be wrong, I could absolutely

1370
01:07:45,320 --> 01:07:47,640
Speaker 12: be wrong, But that's my take on all the intel

1371
01:07:47,680 --> 01:07:50,440
Speaker 12: folks that I've been talking to you recently. Particularly fifty

1372
01:07:50,440 --> 01:07:52,600
Speaker 12: of these things came off the ocean and baffled the

1373
01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:55,280
Speaker 12: coast Guard and police, right.

1374
01:07:55,160 --> 01:07:58,280
Speaker 3: And when you hear the testimony from these law enforcement officials,

1375
01:07:58,280 --> 01:08:00,560
Speaker 3: what I often find is important is to go lower

1376
01:08:00,600 --> 01:08:02,800
Speaker 3: down the wrong because the lies are at the top, right.

1377
01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:04,880
Speaker 3: But when you hear from the people, the coast Guard,

1378
01:08:05,120 --> 01:08:08,760
Speaker 3: the actual police officers, the governors, some of the state legislators,

1379
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:10,760
Speaker 3: they have no idea what's happening, not only do they

1380
01:08:10,760 --> 01:08:13,240
Speaker 3: have no idea they're reporting to us about the ability

1381
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:16,200
Speaker 3: to just quote unquote go dark. And then there's generally

1382
01:08:16,240 --> 01:08:19,080
Speaker 3: a temporary amnesia, you know, across the country where we

1383
01:08:19,200 --> 01:08:21,040
Speaker 3: just seem to forget about these things. But within the

1384
01:08:21,080 --> 01:08:23,280
Speaker 3: pattern as you just set out you laid out, that's

1385
01:08:23,280 --> 01:08:26,320
Speaker 3: an excellent part of the phenomenon. Actually, right where I

1386
01:08:26,360 --> 01:08:29,559
Speaker 3: am here in Washington, some of these incidents occurred here,

1387
01:08:29,760 --> 01:08:33,639
Speaker 3: you know, right over our own airspace. With all of this,

1388
01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:36,080
Speaker 3: it does seem as if some progress is being made

1389
01:08:36,360 --> 01:08:39,160
Speaker 3: in the last decade. I do credit that twenty seventeen

1390
01:08:39,400 --> 01:08:41,720
Speaker 3: New York Times article. So any just last words you

1391
01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:43,920
Speaker 3: want to say for why people should watch the film

1392
01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:45,519
Speaker 3: and put it in the context of this body of

1393
01:08:45,560 --> 01:08:46,519
Speaker 3: work in this moment of time.

1394
01:08:47,200 --> 01:08:49,120
Speaker 11: We are living in unprecedented times.

1395
01:08:49,200 --> 01:08:53,759
Speaker 12: There is a current effort happening right now today, a push,

1396
01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:56,840
Speaker 12: unprecedented push for transparency on this issue. It's gotten the

1397
01:08:56,840 --> 01:09:02,040
Speaker 12: attention of lawmaker's household names, intel folk. There's whistleblowers coming forward.

1398
01:09:02,360 --> 01:09:06,960
Speaker 12: I'm told somewhere between eight and twelve first hand witnesses.

1399
01:09:07,280 --> 01:09:10,040
Speaker 12: Everyone's saying they want firsthand Grush was not a firsthand,

1400
01:09:10,320 --> 01:09:12,759
Speaker 12: firsthand witnesses that have met in skifts.

1401
01:09:12,800 --> 01:09:13,599
Speaker 11: Behind the scenes.

1402
01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:17,559
Speaker 12: Kirk McConnell, former Senate Armed Service Committee staff member, talks

1403
01:09:17,560 --> 01:09:22,599
Speaker 12: about it in the program. It's happening, Be patient, continue

1404
01:09:22,640 --> 01:09:25,200
Speaker 12: to support. This story is going to be huge.

1405
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:27,040
Speaker 1: All right, Well, I'd love to see it. Everybody, go

1406
01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:27,759
Speaker 1: watch the film.

1407
01:09:27,760 --> 01:09:30,360
Speaker 3: We'll have a link down in the description on where

1408
01:09:30,400 --> 01:09:33,120
Speaker 3: you can and check out James's entire body of work.

1409
01:09:33,280 --> 01:09:35,280
Speaker 3: One of my favorite journalists on the issue. We appreciate

1410
01:09:35,320 --> 01:09:36,160
Speaker 3: you joining us, sir.

1411
01:09:35,960 --> 01:09:38,080
Speaker 11: Thank you, thanks so much. I appreciate you having me

1412
01:09:38,120 --> 01:09:38,960
Speaker 11: on absolutely.

1413
01:09:39,200 --> 01:09:40,880
Speaker 1: Thank you guys so much for watching. We appreciate you.

1414
01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:43,080
Speaker 3: Great counterpoint show for everyone tomorrow and we will see

1415
01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:44,040
Speaker 3: you all on Thursday.