Speaker 1: You are not alone if you are suffering with your
Speaker 1: mental health. In fact, you are far from alone. There
Speaker 1: is hope and there is help, And those are the
Speaker 1: messages that both sportscasting legend Dan Patrick and brilliant comedian
Speaker 1: Gary Goldman want you to know. Everyone's mental health experiences
Speaker 1: are their own. So Dan and Gary share their stories
Speaker 1: in separate companion episodes. Both my guests are honest and authentic.
Speaker 1: They are vulnerable and strong. You can be both at
Speaker 1: the same time. Maybe their stories will connect with you
Speaker 1: if you're going through something, or resonate if someone you
Speaker 1: care about is struggling. And I did not know enough
Speaker 1: about the issues surrounding the mental health crisis. And then
Speaker 1: some years ago I hosted the Invictus Games got to
Speaker 1: know some veterans coping with invisible wounds of war. Their
Speaker 1: bravery was impressive and spending time with them was powerful.
Speaker 1: In two thousand six, Rashon Salam, Heisman Trophy winner for
Speaker 1: my alma mater, took his own life. I really like Rashan.
Speaker 1: I was hit hard by that, and I wish I
Speaker 1: had been more aware of the depth of Rashan's pain.
Speaker 1: Many millions are really struggling right now as much as ever,
Speaker 1: and our hope for these episodes is to contribute to
Speaker 1: the conversation and help erase the stigma, the depression. That
Speaker 1: was important. It's in my family, and you know that's
Speaker 1: when my wife said, you can help one person, that's great.
Speaker 1: And if you help that one person who tells that
Speaker 1: one person who tells that one person, you know, that's important.
Speaker 1: And once you do it, like there was, it was
Speaker 1: cathartic for me, but it was it was scary because
Speaker 1: you're going and I tell people a lot of things.
Speaker 1: Now I'm really telling them something. If you follow sports
Speaker 1: at all, you've been aware of Dan Patrick's work for
Speaker 1: a long time. He's one of the most talented broadcasters
Speaker 1: I've ever worked with. At him more than twenty years
Speaker 1: ago at ESPN, he was one of the best sports
Speaker 1: center anchors ever. At NBC hosted Football Night in America
Speaker 1: with great work hosting the Olympics. That Dan Patrick Show
Speaker 1: has been a fixture forever on national radio. It is
Speaker 1: now also on the Peacock Network. So Dan, one morning,
Speaker 1: you go in your show, that An Patrick Show, and
Speaker 1: you say I'm gonna take a left turn here, and
Speaker 1: you announced that you've been carrying around a secret, going
Speaker 1: to explain what that is and where that led you.
Speaker 1: What was the secret you were talking about? Well, I
Speaker 1: think for about six years it was an open secret
Speaker 1: that I was kind of struggling every day to get
Speaker 1: to work and I had been going through I had
Speaker 1: a condition called polly My out of ramatica, which is
Speaker 1: PMR and it normally hits older people and I was
Speaker 1: getting it or first glimpses, and I was I think
Speaker 1: fifty five fifty six and I went and got diagnosed.
Speaker 1: And it you feel like you have the flu every day,
Speaker 1: but you don't. You're not nauseous, you just have the aches.
Speaker 1: And I was having a hard time tying my shoes
Speaker 1: in the morning, and you know, we moved all of
Speaker 1: my clothes downstairs so I didn't have to walk up
Speaker 1: steps because I had a hard time doing that. And
Speaker 1: I just and I thought, you know what, and I
Speaker 1: just started taking a drug to combat this that was
Speaker 1: kind of an exploratory, uh drug called a tamera. And
Speaker 1: I was just I was in a fog a little bit,
Speaker 1: and I was forgetting things on the air, and I
Speaker 1: was starting to feel embarrassed. And I remember that I,
Speaker 1: you know, why not just come forward and just say, look,
Speaker 1: this is what I'm going through, so the audience knows
Speaker 1: with me that if I make a mistake, then then
Speaker 1: they understand that I'm making mistakes here, which I normally
Speaker 1: wouldn't do. I couldn't remember Albert Poohol's his name three
Speaker 1: different occasions, so I just couldn't. I couldn't bring it up.
Speaker 1: Uh Tomzo's name, I couldn't bring it up. I forgot
Speaker 1: how to start my car. One morning, I went to
Speaker 1: the grocery store to buy something, and I had to
Speaker 1: call my wife to ask her why I went to
Speaker 1: the store when it was my idea to go to
Speaker 1: the story. And I started to get really concerned if
Speaker 1: I was going to continue to do this. While going
Speaker 1: through this treatment, I'd get hooked up to an ivy
Speaker 1: once a month at the Hospital for Special Surgery in
Speaker 1: New York, and it was really powerful stuff, and and
Speaker 1: you know, they'd monitor me for a half hour when
Speaker 1: it was done with my vitals. I went four months
Speaker 1: going through these treatments, didn't even know if it worked.
Speaker 1: And they said one morning, you'll know. And I would
Speaker 1: get out of bed every morning after four months, and
Speaker 1: I realized it was groundhog Day and it didn't. Then
Speaker 1: it finally worked where I took away probably sixt out
Speaker 1: of my pain, but I was still forgetting things going
Speaker 1: through this treatment, and I just said to the Dannets,
Speaker 1: you know what, if I can help, So I'm going
Speaker 1: through depression. I mean, I was all over the place,
Speaker 1: and I just said, if I can tell somebody something
Speaker 1: that the audience knows, but also let them know if
Speaker 1: you go through something like this, you know, it doesn't
Speaker 1: know what you do, it doesn't discriminate. And you know,
Speaker 1: it kind of tapped me on the shoulder and I
Speaker 1: was going through some serious depression, and um, you know
Speaker 1: that it was finally time to just let everybody kind
Speaker 1: of in on the secret. Well there's a lot to
Speaker 1: unpack there and talk about and get into. And I
Speaker 1: think that you showing that vulnerability will be very helpful
Speaker 1: and I hope helpful to you as well. Let's back
Speaker 1: up and talk about the pain. So you're you're fifty
Speaker 1: five years old and climbing the stairs as a problem
Speaker 1: and getting out of bed as a problem. Describe for
Speaker 1: those who haven't had probably malagia at room romatica, what
Speaker 1: what that pain was like. Every morning. It was just
Speaker 1: it was this dull egg that just hung there and
Speaker 1: and you'd wake up in the morning and I felt
Speaker 1: it in my knees right away and in your hand.
Speaker 1: So it's all your joints, so it doesn't you know,
Speaker 1: it's not like one side of your body or one
Speaker 1: part of your body. It's both knees, it's both hips,
Speaker 1: it's both ankles, both hands, both shoulders, my neck every
Speaker 1: single day. And then they had me on Pregna zonne.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've ever been on Pregna zone,
Speaker 1: hopefully you never get on Pregna zone because that is
Speaker 1: a a powerful drug. And I was taking pretty high
Speaker 1: doses um. But my mood swings were all over the place.
Speaker 1: So it would take away the pain magically, and then
Speaker 1: but I would be all over the map, all this
Speaker 1: energy or I wouldn't say a word, and you know,
Speaker 1: so my wife's trying to troubleshoot this, and you know
Speaker 1: it was I had gotten to the point where I
Speaker 1: didn't know if there was going to be any kind
Speaker 1: of solution. And I ended up going to Veil, Colorado
Speaker 1: to visit my daughter, and I went in there to
Speaker 1: the Steadman Clinic and the doctor said, have you tried this?
Speaker 1: I said, I'll try anything, and he said, well, you're
Speaker 1: gonna be hooked up to an ivy. I said, I
Speaker 1: don't care. And if I don't go and see him,
Speaker 1: I don't know where I am today. Because he told
Speaker 1: me to see this doctor, Dr Lally at you know,
Speaker 1: hospital for Special Surgery, and she said, look, we're trying
Speaker 1: this on rheumatoid arthritis patients. Do you want to try it?
Speaker 1: I said, yes, I'll try it. And so I was,
Speaker 1: you know, probably one of the first people in the
Speaker 1: United States to do it. But you know, I was
Speaker 1: a willing participant. I was just a guinea pig because
Speaker 1: I couldn't This pain was so I didn't play golf
Speaker 1: for seven years. I was gonna say, you're you're acting.
Speaker 1: You're an athlete, you play basketball, you love golf. Activity
Speaker 1: is a part of your life. You're you're fifty five
Speaker 1: years old, you're far from old, and now you're you're
Speaker 1: being robbed at that. For people who suffer pain in
Speaker 1: any form, they know that it takes away your joy.
Speaker 1: You can't be carefree, you can't have happiness for long.
Speaker 1: It's hard to even be present, right because the present
Speaker 1: is painful and you're looking for a way to get
Speaker 1: away from that. So just that daily pain and we'll
Speaker 1: get to where it leads you emotionally. But the physical
Speaker 1: piece of it, you gotta go and you gotta do
Speaker 1: a show every day in two twelve, So you're you're
Speaker 1: doing Football Night in America in the fall, the London Olympics.
Speaker 1: That summer, you're doing your show. It's a heavy workload, high,
Speaker 1: high profile, demanding things. How are you keeping it together
Speaker 1: for that? I have no idea. I really don't, Chris,
Speaker 1: because I would take a nap at Football Night in America.
Speaker 1: I would get there at noon, we'd watch the pregame shows,
Speaker 1: and then at halftime of the first set of games
Speaker 1: at one o'clock, I go take a nap for forty
Speaker 1: five minutes, just because my body was just screaming out that,
Speaker 1: you know, just lie down, and then I would get
Speaker 1: up at four o'clock and then i'd prep we'd start
Speaker 1: taping at five, and then I would work, you know,
Speaker 1: the rest of the evening doing Football Night in America. Uh.
Speaker 1: In the Olympics, the London Olympics, you know, I was
Speaker 1: taking presdic zone, but you know, you you just kind
Speaker 1: of do that that that's a grind. That's like twenty
Speaker 1: two consecutive days where you're doing six hours alive TV.
Speaker 1: And part of it was you look forward to getting
Speaker 1: on the air. So I didn't sit around and think
Speaker 1: about it. And you know, my wife would just say
Speaker 1: stop moping, like come on, let's go take a walk. Hey.
Speaker 1: But I couldn't pick up anything more than a wedge
Speaker 1: when I played golf, and then I didn't want to
Speaker 1: shoot basketball, and that's all I love, you know, I
Speaker 1: love shooting hoops and couldn't play golf. I quit my
Speaker 1: membership at a golf club, and uh, you know, I
Speaker 1: just resigned myself to the fact that this is what
Speaker 1: I was going to have. I went to the person
Speaker 1: who coined the phrase PMR older. He's probably in his
Speaker 1: nineties now. I walk in and he goes, I go,
Speaker 1: I I gotta you know, I want you to see
Speaker 1: if I have. He goes, you've got PMR. I go, no,
Speaker 1: I want you to diagnose. I goes, I can tell
Speaker 1: you PMR. I said, what shouldn't I take a blood test?
Speaker 1: He goes, go next door, Come back, you have pm are?
Speaker 1: I go next door? I come back. He says, you
Speaker 1: have PMR. I said, well, how do you you know?
Speaker 1: How do we combat it? He goes, uh, we give
Speaker 1: you a pregnic zone. I said, well, how did I
Speaker 1: get it? We don't know. How do I get rid
Speaker 1: of it? We don't know. And so I leave this
Speaker 1: doctor's office and I'm going I have no idea what
Speaker 1: I'm doing, and you know, I just I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think I I'm fortunate I had an outlet, and
Speaker 1: I'm fortunately I had guys that I come in every
Speaker 1: day and they made me laugh. They took my mind
Speaker 1: off of it. Because once the show got was over,
Speaker 1: I got back in the car and then I went
Speaker 1: back home, and then I didn't want to do anything.
Speaker 1: And then you sit around and you just, you know,
Speaker 1: it just starts to the walls start to close in
Speaker 1: a little bit on you. Yeah, the show must go on.
Speaker 1: As a phrase, it exists for a reason because that's
Speaker 1: the mentality, right, whether it's what you do, what I do,
Speaker 1: what they do on Broadway or films. You you just
Speaker 1: get through whatever physical or emotional pain your deal ling with,
Speaker 1: and you just do the job because that's what you're
Speaker 1: expected to do. There's a long tradition of it. So
Speaker 1: you have to sit there in that share and be
Speaker 1: funny and be sharp and have your a game every
Speaker 1: single day while dealing with all this. I guess you know,
Speaker 1: this job and sports in general is viewed as a diversion,
Speaker 1: a distraction from real world stuff, so that that may
Speaker 1: have helped, because you've gotta, by the way, prep for
Speaker 1: this show. You have to watch games and read stuff.
Speaker 1: You can't just turn up and know what you need
Speaker 1: to know to do the show. So I guess it
Speaker 1: must have been therapeutic in that way to have sports
Speaker 1: as an outlet for as many hours as you could do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think when but I also would in the
Speaker 1: back of my mind, I would look at the clock
Speaker 1: and know that, Okay, the show is going to end
Speaker 1: the next number of minutes, which meant I had to
Speaker 1: Now I left my little dream world here that we
Speaker 1: call you know, radio or TV, and you know it
Speaker 1: just starts. You just I can't explain it other than
Speaker 1: you know you were in this. I was in a
Speaker 1: world that nobody could understand, and you're trying to explain.
Speaker 1: I would have my wife if I let's say we
Speaker 1: took a plane trip to Cincinnati to our flight, and
Speaker 1: I would say, honey, you gotta hold my hand when
Speaker 1: I'm getting up, because I didn't want people to think
Speaker 1: that I mean, I was, I felt frail, and she
Speaker 1: would I can't say. We'd go to a movie and
Speaker 1: I'd say I need help getting up. I'd go to
Speaker 1: dinner and I'd say I need help getting up. It's
Speaker 1: just if I sit for thirty minutes or more and
Speaker 1: so I'm sitting in my job and I get up,
Speaker 1: and then I never want you to feel like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, I felt eighty. If if this is eighty,
Speaker 1: I'm in trouble. But I just couldn't. People didn't realize
Speaker 1: what was going on, and then you, how did you?
Speaker 1: How did they not realize? How did how did someone
Speaker 1: that see you? You're recognizable, They come up, they want
Speaker 1: to talk to you, they want to picture back in
Speaker 1: the air when that's that stuff went on, and then
Speaker 1: you don't want then to know what you're carrying. And
Speaker 1: that's understandable. A few of us would, but now that's
Speaker 1: extra energy taken to conceal it as well. I just
Speaker 1: even if I was trying to explain it though Chris,
Speaker 1: it was I couldn't conceal it. I just couldn't explain it.
Speaker 1: So if I go, hey, it's like the flu, but
Speaker 1: you don't, you're not nauxious, and they go, oh, well,
Speaker 1: how do you get rid of it? And this if
Speaker 1: I had a dollar for every time I'm asked the
Speaker 1: following have you been tested for line? And I go, yes,
Speaker 1: I was probably tested for lime twenty twenty different blood tests.
Speaker 1: I took so many blood tests and I it always
Speaker 1: came back to the same. And then you're trying to
Speaker 1: tell somebody something and then they'll go, oh, okay. They
Speaker 1: don't understand it because it's not something that is you know,
Speaker 1: it's not like a broken arm or knee surgery. It's
Speaker 1: I got something to do with my joints and it
Speaker 1: doesn't allow me to move very well. Okay, And that's
Speaker 1: about all you can explain to people. So but I look,
Speaker 1: I I don't people try to be nice and understand it.
Speaker 1: I but you know, when you ask somebody, hey, how
Speaker 1: you feeling? Do you really want to know how they're feeling?
Speaker 1: But you ask, and then if I say, do you
Speaker 1: really want to know? Because I was trying to be
Speaker 1: you know, fair to my friends, you don't want to know, yes,
Speaker 1: I'm doing okay. Well, there's different ways of handling this,
Speaker 1: different ways of handling all sorts of pain. Some people
Speaker 1: with a stiff upper lip reveal nothing to anyone, even
Speaker 1: those close to them don't know. Others are, oh, I
Speaker 1: gotta hangnail and you gotta hear about that for a half.
Speaker 1: I know that you're kind of in that former group,
Speaker 1: and that's that's sort of what I grew up around
Speaker 1: family members who didn't share things like that. But that
Speaker 1: also carries its own burden and its own weight. So
Speaker 1: you you leave the studio and you're on the drive home,
Speaker 1: and what's going through your head and now you've got
Speaker 1: all these hours to fill and and you've got all
Speaker 1: this pain to cope with. Well, it got to the
Speaker 1: point where I tried to find a longer way to
Speaker 1: go home. I would I would ask my wife, you know,
Speaker 1: I would do errand like, I had to do something
Speaker 1: before I went home, because once I got home and
Speaker 1: it was around six o'clock, then I wanted to self medicaid.
Speaker 1: And I would say to my wife, you know, I'll
Speaker 1: wait till seven o'clock to have something to drink. And
Speaker 1: I would so then it would be six, then it
Speaker 1: was six thirty, then it was six fifteen, that was
Speaker 1: six o'clock. And I was going down a bad road
Speaker 1: because I just I wanted the pain to go away.
Speaker 1: I didn't want to take prednic's own and so, you know,
Speaker 1: I got a medicinal marijuana license. Like I was like,
Speaker 1: how do I get through each day because I know
Speaker 1: what it's going to be like when I wake up
Speaker 1: in the morning, and I wanted to basically knock myself
Speaker 1: out go to sleep, you know, And that became a
Speaker 1: daily thing from from whatever was six o'clock until you
Speaker 1: went to bed. That that was sort of the pain
Speaker 1: management was the only thing on your mind at that point.
Speaker 1: And then I didn't know I had neuropathy, so I
Speaker 1: couldn't sleep through the night. I would sleep in three
Speaker 1: hour increments, and then my my fingers and feet would
Speaker 1: like numb up and then you know, so it was
Speaker 1: a constant like you're up and then you're trying to
Speaker 1: go back sleep, and you know, you wake up in
Speaker 1: the morning and you realized that here it is again,
Speaker 1: that pain is there every single morning. But you know,
Speaker 1: God loved my wife every single day for seven years.
Speaker 1: She asked me, how do you feel every single day?
Speaker 1: Every single day? And that one day when I said,
Speaker 1: I feel okay, and she's like, what, I go, I
Speaker 1: don't know, something's different there. And that's after the four
Speaker 1: month period of doing these I V s and um,
Speaker 1: you know, I just said, you know, I'm gonna keep
Speaker 1: doing it for a little while, and then, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: I did it for twelve months. How do you give
Speaker 1: yourself a pep talk to do that? I don't know.
Speaker 1: I just you know, I love working every day and
Speaker 1: I just there's something about that that's therapeutic. That I was.
Speaker 1: I was able to get up, and it took me
Speaker 1: such a long time. It's forty five minutes of that
Speaker 1: pain was always there, and then I would take a
Speaker 1: shower and then I would feel a little bit better.
Speaker 1: There'll be days my wife would help me with my shoes,
Speaker 1: my jacket and I get out the door. And then
Speaker 1: once I got to work, then I just I don't know,
Speaker 1: I just you kind of shed it. You have to
Speaker 1: leave it. You just you know, nobody wanted to hear
Speaker 1: about it, but I wanted them to hear about it.
Speaker 1: When I got to a point where I wasn't doing
Speaker 1: my job, and that's you know, that was where I said,
Speaker 1: I got to tell people that I'm not doing my
Speaker 1: job correctly. This is why also depression, that was important.
Speaker 1: It's in my family. And you know, that's when my
Speaker 1: wife said, you can help one person, that's great. And
Speaker 1: if you help that one person who tells that one
Speaker 1: person who tells that one person, you know, that's important.
Speaker 1: And once you do it like there was, it was
Speaker 1: cathartic for me, but it was it was scary because
Speaker 1: you're going I tell people a lot of things. Now
Speaker 1: I'm really telling them something and that's as personal as
Speaker 1: I could get. But I kept thinking, this is the audience.
Speaker 1: I mean why it's reciprocated. You invest in me, I
Speaker 1: should invest in you. I should let you know what
Speaker 1: you mean to me. And that's what I did. I
Speaker 1: just this is how important you are to me. I
Speaker 1: want you to understand what I'm going through. And you know,
Speaker 1: if it helps you, you want you know somebody, then great,
Speaker 1: we're all in this together. And it was freeing. And
Speaker 1: the number of people who have responded and continue to
Speaker 1: respond has been you know, that's that's the reward of
Speaker 1: all of this. It was really really beneficial I think,
Speaker 1: for you know, certainly myself, but those on the other end,
Speaker 1: he said, scary, And I think I understand what you mean,
Speaker 1: but that kind of fear has different meanings. Why why
Speaker 1: was it scary to you the idea about letting people
Speaker 1: in on what you were feeling and the thoughts you
Speaker 1: were having. I just thought, guess I'm really opening myself
Speaker 1: up here. And I didn't at the time. I didn't
Speaker 1: know who I was, Like, I'm trying to figure out
Speaker 1: who I am going through all of this. You know,
Speaker 1: as a as a father. You know, you've got three daughters.
Speaker 1: You want to walk down the aisle. I have a
Speaker 1: son who's getting married. Like, You're just like, what do
Speaker 1: you mean? You didn't know who you were? You you you
Speaker 1: had a pretty well established idea of who you were
Speaker 1: at this point in your life, but this was taking
Speaker 1: away your ability. It's got to recognize yourself. Well, I
Speaker 1: didn't know what I was going to be, Like, I
Speaker 1: didn't know I was having memory loss, um, I was
Speaker 1: still having pain. I just wasn't sure what I was
Speaker 1: going to be and who I was going to be. Um.
Speaker 1: I didn't lose my identity as much as I was like,
Speaker 1: as I move forward here? Can I be great? Can
Speaker 1: I be good? Can I do this for a living?
Speaker 1: You have a very high standard that you want to
Speaker 1: meet for yourself. I understand that when that slips, when
Speaker 1: that's not there, you might be the only one who
Speaker 1: knows it. But very few damn what would know that.
Speaker 1: But that doesn't matter, because you want to be you
Speaker 1: want to meet your own standard. And it's got to
Speaker 1: be pretty pretty eff and scary to think that this
Speaker 1: might continue to a point where you couldn't come close
Speaker 1: to what you have been doing. Yeah, and that's where
Speaker 1: you're losing your identity. Like am I still at the
Speaker 1: top of my game? And there would be moments where
Speaker 1: I would have these memory lapses and Pauli's my producer,
Speaker 1: and Paully would turn his microphone in on into my
Speaker 1: headphones and say, uh, Mark Cuban or uh you know,
Speaker 1: he'd say at Lanta Hawks because he could tell I
Speaker 1: was getting to a point where I go where where
Speaker 1: am I? So when you leave here, it's not like
Speaker 1: it's just nobody sees it when you leave here. That's
Speaker 1: where I was like, God, I can't remember what's going on?
Speaker 1: Like you know, when I forgot how to turn on
Speaker 1: my car, which all it is is a push button.
Speaker 1: And and so that's where you're going. God, I gotta
Speaker 1: get my ship together here, Like, how do I so it?
Speaker 1: I kind of got lost in it, but I was.
Speaker 1: I revealed it and I didn't look back. It was
Speaker 1: just scary when I was revealing it. I didn't even
Speaker 1: tell my guys who I work with, because I thought
Speaker 1: they would talk me out of it, like just to say,
Speaker 1: you don't want to be that revealing. And I just thought,
Speaker 1: I what, you know, who am I too? I don't
Speaker 1: have to hide. I shouldn't hide. You know, we all secrets,
Speaker 1: but this is this is something that I can share
Speaker 1: that we all benefit in. And I take great pride
Speaker 1: if somebody comes back to me and says, thank you
Speaker 1: for talking about depression, thank you, um, because I think
Speaker 1: we all think you have a great life. Chris got
Speaker 1: a great family, great wife. You can't be depressed. You know, Hey,
Speaker 1: I got a great wife, I got four kids. I
Speaker 1: can't be depressed, but you can. And so this all,
Speaker 1: like it was the perfect storm that hit me that
Speaker 1: I I, you know, had not been able to work out.
Speaker 1: I didn't do anything. I didn't want to go anywhere.
Speaker 1: I was embarrassed if I sat down for more than
Speaker 1: thirty minutes to get up, like you know, you kind
Speaker 1: of lose yourself a little bit, like, man, I don't
Speaker 1: want to be this way. But then everybody realized and
Speaker 1: he said, everybody, come on in, come on in under
Speaker 1: the tent. It's a big tent here because there are
Speaker 1: a lot of people. Come on in. Everybody. Now we
Speaker 1: all understand that. But uh, I got a very understanding family,
Speaker 1: and uh that's certainly paid off. All depression is a
Speaker 1: topic that's been important to me and lots of people.
Speaker 1: I do want to get into that. You said you
Speaker 1: had in your family, so you have an awareness of
Speaker 1: what it's like. You understand that it's not a character flaw.
Speaker 1: It's a flaw in chemistry. It's not in your control.
Speaker 1: But it's very, very tough to to find a way
Speaker 1: to navigate out of that. So when you're when you're
Speaker 1: you're feeling this pain and obviously you're going through all
Speaker 1: the scary thoughts. How did that translate into sort of
Speaker 1: mental difficulties and take you sort of to a dark place.
Speaker 1: I didn't know I was there. I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people who are depressed, don't know they're there, and
Speaker 1: I just I would just get to a place where
Speaker 1: I didn't want to talk, you know, I just sit
Speaker 1: and then I didn't realize I wasn't talking, and my
Speaker 1: wife would say, what's wrong. I go nothing, But I
Speaker 1: was in my own world and I I just I
Speaker 1: don't know. I let it uh kind of easy its
Speaker 1: way in and then it doesn't leave easily. Um, And
Speaker 1: you know, I kept thinking, you know, every thing in
Speaker 1: my MINDSETF I can figure this out. I can get
Speaker 1: out of this. I can be better than this, I
Speaker 1: can be stronger than this. And then I realized that
Speaker 1: I couldn't. And that's you know when you know, I
Speaker 1: just had to figure out can I do I need
Speaker 1: to talk to somebody? And then the you know, I'm stubborn.
Speaker 1: I don't want to talk to somebody. I don't need
Speaker 1: to talk to somebody. So I kind of just you know,
Speaker 1: threw myself into a deeper, deeper hole. And I pulled
Speaker 1: into the driveway one time, and I'm embarrassed, but I
Speaker 1: went in right into the garage and I just said,
Speaker 1: if I shut that garage door, I'm good. That's that.
Speaker 1: That was the way out that made a little bit
Speaker 1: of sense for a moment there for a moment, and
Speaker 1: I understand when people say how could somebody do something
Speaker 1: like that? I just you know, you pull in and
Speaker 1: I go, I can shut that door, and then I
Speaker 1: go what like? And then of course it hits you
Speaker 1: and you go, what God, what am I thinking here?
Speaker 1: And you know you're leaving four kids and you're you know,
Speaker 1: just all the it's just crazy. But you get in
Speaker 1: that space and I couldn't get out, and you know,
Speaker 1: you just like I couldn't wait to get out of
Speaker 1: the car and out of the garage to go what
Speaker 1: am I doing? What am I doing? What am I doing?
Speaker 1: Was that a momentary thing one time or persistent? No,
Speaker 1: that was once. But the depression was that was constant
Speaker 1: where it was just like I just dreaded waking up
Speaker 1: in the morning, hated it. What did that? What did
Speaker 1: it feel like to you? Because people describe it in
Speaker 1: different ways, but what what the depression on a daily
Speaker 1: basis feel like to you? It was just it was
Speaker 1: as if the day is cloudy, overcast every day. Energy?
Speaker 1: Did you have any No, now, you just don't want
Speaker 1: to do anything. I didn't. I didn't want to do anything.
Speaker 1: And I would sit downstairs at night and I would
Speaker 1: smoke a cigar and drink. That would That would be
Speaker 1: the routine every night, just it there. And it was
Speaker 1: that you know, wallowing period or whatever it was. But
Speaker 1: I was just down there, didn't want to talk, and
Speaker 1: you know, that was it. So like seven to nine o'clock,
Speaker 1: you know that was that was happy hours. But you know,
Speaker 1: then you realize that I'm not It doesn't make it
Speaker 1: any better. But I was trying to take away pain.
Speaker 1: And you know that paint pain was physical, but it
Speaker 1: was also mental. But you know when I people normally
Speaker 1: don't have what I had for as long a period
Speaker 1: of time, and then older people think they're dying when
Speaker 1: they are diagnosed with this because you don't know. And
Speaker 1: you know, I think that was I was trying to
Speaker 1: learn a lot more about how I was going to
Speaker 1: feel in my body and what I needed to do
Speaker 1: and to get some clarity here. Um. And I don't
Speaker 1: know how I got it, by the way, because you're
Speaker 1: probably gonna go, well, how did you get out of this?
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't. I think I started to feel
Speaker 1: better about myself. Um, and I was seeing the results
Speaker 1: and then I was able to do a soul cycle.
Speaker 1: I did, and I just basically said, I worked out
Speaker 1: twice a day. I basically said, to my pain, fuck you,
Speaker 1: like you're hurting me, I'm gonna hurt you. So I'd
Speaker 1: work out twice a day. I was doing sole cycle
Speaker 1: three times a week, and I just attacked it. And
Speaker 1: then I felt better about myself that it felt like
Speaker 1: I was doing something back to this condition and I
Speaker 1: kind of emerged from the fog. You said you've had
Speaker 1: experience with it. What did you learn, either by being
Speaker 1: taught or observing about the way to deal with this,
Speaker 1: Because sometimes that's not helpful. You can learn things that
Speaker 1: end up impeding your ability to cope with it. Because
Speaker 1: in past generations, it wasn't something that you admitted that
Speaker 1: you talked about, wasn't something that was It was not
Speaker 1: understood well now was understood even less well back then.
Speaker 1: Well it was called you had you had mental health
Speaker 1: issues like Kevin mental condidence, like I, That's what I
Speaker 1: was always told. Like I didn't know depression growing up.
Speaker 1: I knew people who had depression, but I didn't know
Speaker 1: It's like alcoholism is in my family, Like you know
Speaker 1: it but I don't know what alcohol like how many
Speaker 1: drinks do you have? And that means you're an alcoholic?
Speaker 1: And and so I didn't know any of those things.
Speaker 1: And then you know, when I was I didn't want
Speaker 1: to say I had mental issues. But if you say
Speaker 1: you're depressed, then what's that mean? You have something? A
Speaker 1: mental condition that you're dealing means you're sad. People think, oh,
Speaker 1: you're sad about something. I think that they depressed. Why
Speaker 1: it stigmatizes because it's so poorly understood, and people what
Speaker 1: they would say to you as you as you mentioned earlier,
Speaker 1: what do you have to be depressed about? But the
Speaker 1: reality is, if you investigate it, you see people like
Speaker 1: Terry Bradshaw whom we both know, Michael Phelps, Bruce Springsteen.
Speaker 1: In some ways, the more successful you are, it actually
Speaker 1: makes you susceptible to this. It doesn't insulate you from
Speaker 1: being depressed. That actually could accentuate the problem. Despite success
Speaker 1: accolades all these things. And was there a moment when
Speaker 1: you understood that through somebody's example. I thought that Kevin
Speaker 1: Love was extremely brave. And you know, even when Paul
Speaker 1: George was in the Buddle bubble talking about this, like I.
Speaker 1: Any time I hear it or I read it, my
Speaker 1: ears perk up, like I. I just want to know
Speaker 1: because there's something about it. When you talk about it,
Speaker 1: you you find out so many people who can empathize
Speaker 1: understand it that you never thought could because you thought, God,
Speaker 1: I don't want to tell anybody this, and then you do,
Speaker 1: and then it's amazing the number of people say, you
Speaker 1: know what, I went through it, or these are things
Speaker 1: that I went through. Hey, if you ever need somebody
Speaker 1: to talk to. But I didn't have some magic elicks
Speaker 1: or that I went, I can do this or I
Speaker 1: can be a part of this, and you know, there's
Speaker 1: no therapy sessions, and uh, but I do think if
Speaker 1: I did not go to Veil, Colorado and take this
Speaker 1: experimental drug, I wouldn't want to talk about this today
Speaker 1: because I would still have it. And I just didn't
Speaker 1: want to be on prednice own because that is that
Speaker 1: is a horribly wonderful drug. It takes away all your pain.
Speaker 1: But man, the mood swings and I was all over
Speaker 1: the map, and you know, it was just it was
Speaker 1: kind of a mess. But I had never had more
Speaker 1: success in my career. Chris, which is crazy Football Night
Speaker 1: in America was wonderful. The Olympics is one of the
Speaker 1: best experiences. I'm handing out the super Bowl Trophy a
Speaker 1: couple of times. You know, I'm being nominated for awards,
Speaker 1: I'm going into the Broadcasting Hall of Fame. All of
Speaker 1: this in the last seven or eight years, where I
Speaker 1: think I've done some of my best work. It doesn't
Speaker 1: make any sense whatsoever, um because it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: it took me X number of years to be an
Speaker 1: overnight success, Like I've been doing this a long time,
Speaker 1: but I don't know. I just That's one of the
Speaker 1: reasons why people don't get help, though, because they can
Speaker 1: be highly success usful and achieve a lot while dealing
Speaker 1: with it. So you're thinking, wait a minute, if I
Speaker 1: if I take some radical shift, if I do what
Speaker 1: I think should be done to get rid of this pain,
Speaker 1: is that going to mess with other parts of my
Speaker 1: life which are going okay. I thought about taking time
Speaker 1: off from the show, but I didn't know how that
Speaker 1: was going to help me. You know, I think mentally
Speaker 1: I probably should have, but physically there was nothing I
Speaker 1: could do. Where I went If I take thirty days
Speaker 1: off and go to some warm weather climate or whatever
Speaker 1: it might be. But oh, okay, I'll be better. Um.
Speaker 1: And you know, I think that that was the biggest
Speaker 1: challenge of can I continue to do it? Because I
Speaker 1: was working six days a week and you know, three
Speaker 1: hours live on radio and TV, and then you're doing
Speaker 1: football night in America like these are all there's pressure
Speaker 1: in there. And then I wondered if that pressure brought
Speaker 1: about this condition because there's so much that's not known
Speaker 1: about it. I put tremendous pressure on myself and if
Speaker 1: we got nominated for an Emmy, I'd be disappointed that
Speaker 1: we didn't win the Emmy and I didn't enjoy the
Speaker 1: Emmy and all these different awards, and I you know,
Speaker 1: I think at about two or three years ago, I
Speaker 1: finally relaxed and said, you know what, you're not going
Speaker 1: to be better than Bob Costas. You're not gonna win
Speaker 1: these awards. You're not going to do that, You're not
Speaker 1: this is You better enjoy this because I waited probably
Speaker 1: the first sixty years of my life and didn't didn't
Speaker 1: enjoy it. And I don't know if that adds to depression.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it added to my condition, but man,
Speaker 1: I wanted to beat everybody. I'm competitive, and then I realized,
Speaker 1: like I couldn't be. And you know, it was a
Speaker 1: great kick in the ask to say, hey, dumbass, enjoy
Speaker 1: it while you can, because one day it's all over.
Speaker 1: And I finally got around to doing that. But I
Speaker 1: think being physically able to my wife and I go
Speaker 1: play golf. Now nine holes, that's it. Nine holes that
Speaker 1: make a physical condition, or just playing golf as a couple,
Speaker 1: maybe nine holes as the limit for the hell, let
Speaker 1: me see, let me choose the great dancer there. Uh,
Speaker 1: it's just nice to get out every Sunday with my wife.
Speaker 1: But but you know, she she appreciates because she's like,
Speaker 1: who would have thought we would be at this point
Speaker 1: where I and we walk and she would say that
Speaker 1: we're going to go play golf. So you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's it's been a long run, man. And uh. You know,
Speaker 1: people I say, oh, I wouldn't wish this on anybody.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't wish it all my worst enemy. I wouldn't
Speaker 1: wish it on anybody. Just to go through it and
Speaker 1: not have any kind of light at the end of
Speaker 1: the tunnel, because every time I'd see that light at
Speaker 1: the end of the tunnel. It felt it was two
Speaker 1: headlights and they were coming right at me. Was it
Speaker 1: helpful to hear that you are not alone? Because I
Speaker 1: think some people feel very lonely in this when you
Speaker 1: begin to read stories of others, famous or or not famous.
Speaker 1: How did that affect you to realize millions, millions suffer
Speaker 1: from something similar, if not identical, to what I saw
Speaker 1: from I think it was everyday people. I didn't need
Speaker 1: you to have a title attached to your name because
Speaker 1: you know, well Michael Phelps and you know Kevin Love
Speaker 1: and you know, those are all important things, the important people.
Speaker 1: But they're important because they can tell people what this
Speaker 1: is all about, and and that I've got the most
Speaker 1: medals in Olympic history. But I was depressed. Um, that's important.
Speaker 1: But it's the everyday person who just don't get to
Speaker 1: tell anybody that story, you know, and when they want to,
Speaker 1: and you'll listen to them, and that's what's important. I
Speaker 1: get letters all the time. Got a letter this morning
Speaker 1: where it was just a Vietnam bet and he said,
Speaker 1: thank you for doing this. You know, we're we're you know,
Speaker 1: his whole world. He said, I've been suicidal. I you know,
Speaker 1: and I struggle and I who do you? I? Who
Speaker 1: do I talk to? And all of a sudden I
Speaker 1: turn on the radio and you're telling me that you've
Speaker 1: gone through this. He said, Just thank you for saying that.
Speaker 1: That's far more beneficial than any a war you could give.
Speaker 1: You you you read that, you read that letter from this guy.
Speaker 1: What proud of yourself for for being vulnerable? I don't
Speaker 1: know if proud, I guess I'm I'm just glad I
Speaker 1: did it, because look, I'm no hero. There are people
Speaker 1: who do things and gone through greater things. But if
Speaker 1: I can use a platform that does impact people in
Speaker 1: a positive way, then that's great. I mean, that's I'm
Speaker 1: very lucky to have that platform. But it's um. You
Speaker 1: got angry when when Dak Prescott was criticized for showing
Speaker 1: his vulnerability and what he had gone through suicide. Yes,
Speaker 1: I mean his mom died, his brother died of a suicide.
Speaker 1: And then you know people you know to say, well
Speaker 1: you're vulnerable, Well you're making it so vulnerable. I mean,
Speaker 1: you can't be a leader if you're vulnerable. I got
Speaker 1: I didn't understand that logic, and I'm going, oh, my god, Well,
Speaker 1: will people stop doing this because you know, we're stigmatizing
Speaker 1: this again. And that's the dangerous part where people are
Speaker 1: gonna be afraid to come forward. Oh you're soft. What
Speaker 1: if that's the case? Sign me up. I'm fucking soft.
Speaker 1: But I'm vulnerable, and so Dak Prescott in that moment. God,
Speaker 1: I can't imagine how vulnerable he was. And for people
Speaker 1: to say, you're the leader of a football team, that's
Speaker 1: not what leaders do. I'm more apt to follow that
Speaker 1: guy than a guy who was keeping everything inside. And
Speaker 1: I just it angered me, and probably because you know,
Speaker 1: it was hitting me personally, but I just said, man,
Speaker 1: don't don't do that to people. If you're gonna do
Speaker 1: it to Dak Prescott, you're gonna do it to you know,
Speaker 1: somebody who might be in your family. Come on, toughen up,
Speaker 1: don't be so soft. Um. I've had a couple of
Speaker 1: people who committed suicide that I know, And if you
Speaker 1: would have said that these two people are gonna kill themselves,
Speaker 1: I said, there, you're you gotta be crazy. In a
Speaker 1: million years, I would you know? I I when I
Speaker 1: found out, I went and there's no way. But that's
Speaker 1: why when people go, you know, be tough, you know,
Speaker 1: don't be soft, don't be vulnerable. Man, I think millions
Speaker 1: have lost someone to death by suicide. I have as well,
Speaker 1: And you obviously wonder why didn't they share? Why didn't
Speaker 1: I know more? Had they what could I have done?
Speaker 1: And I think you're you hit it at the stigma,
Speaker 1: especially being male in the athletic the sports world, it's
Speaker 1: even an extra layer of stigma. You said something powerful,
Speaker 1: and I think everybody deserves the right to handle their
Speaker 1: situation and express or not express what's troubling them and
Speaker 1: every whatever way they see fit. But you did say
Speaker 1: that you found it the opposite of selfish to share.
Speaker 1: You found it selfish when you don't share the pain
Speaker 1: you have with others. Why, um, I think because if
Speaker 1: you have a message or you can relate to somebody,
Speaker 1: you're not trying to but if you can relate to them,
Speaker 1: or they hear that voice or that somebody they see
Speaker 1: on TV. And uh, I just thought, if I kept inside,
Speaker 1: and this is my wife was saying, be selfless with this,
Speaker 1: you know, share it. Sure it's okay, shuret And like
Speaker 1: what am I hiding? What am I holding onto? Like
Speaker 1: I'm you know, boy, this is gonna reveal me in
Speaker 1: a different way. And I think I was I always
Speaker 1: wanted to present myself as having my ship together, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm like, hey, I got it all together. Hey, I'm
Speaker 1: doing great, And there's so much to it that's fragile
Speaker 1: that it can unfold, unravel, and I just thought, why
Speaker 1: not just be human, just be honest and and I
Speaker 1: and I had to talk to my wife and she
Speaker 1: was great about it, but she kept saying, it's not
Speaker 1: about you, It's about everybody who will hear this, because
Speaker 1: I was worried about me, Chris, and I was I
Speaker 1: was forgetting This is about everybody else out there, whoever
Speaker 1: wants to consume it in whatever way you want to
Speaker 1: consume it. That was the important part that I was missing,
Speaker 1: and was like, God, I don't I don't know if
Speaker 1: I want to tell people I'm feeling this way or
Speaker 1: I'm forgetting her. And then she goes, it's not about you,
Speaker 1: it's about them. And that was that moment of clarity
Speaker 1: where I didn't even tell my wife I was going
Speaker 1: to do it. She was getting all these text messages,
Speaker 1: like my two brothers in law, what's what's Dan doing?
Speaker 1: What's he talking about? She had no idea what I
Speaker 1: was doing. And then I got home and she said,
Speaker 1: do you want to talk about this? I said, you
Speaker 1: empowered me to be honest and I did it. And
Speaker 1: I said, I'm sorry that I blindsided you. But I
Speaker 1: did not know I was going to do it that morning.
Speaker 1: It was around I don't know, in the second, first hour,
Speaker 1: and then I thought, top of the hour, I'm going
Speaker 1: to do it. And I had to build up the
Speaker 1: courage to do it. And that's why I didn't tell
Speaker 1: anybody who said, you know what, full speed ahead, here
Speaker 1: we go. If I get emotional, if I cry, whatever,
Speaker 1: let's go. And yeah, I'm glad I did it for
Speaker 1: the right reasons, the a humility that's associated with suffering
Speaker 1: from this. And I've heard others say they don't consider
Speaker 1: themselves cured. They consider the depression to be in remission.
Speaker 1: It's to be managed. But you don't completely put it
Speaker 1: in the rear view mirror. That's them. How how do
Speaker 1: you feel about that? Well, my condition is not in
Speaker 1: the clear. Like I wake up every day and in
Speaker 1: my hands feel like I've laid bricks, my shoulders, my knees.
Speaker 1: I still have numbness in my fingers and toes, but
Speaker 1: I don't have that, you know. I it felt like
Speaker 1: it was wearing a two pound vest every morning when
Speaker 1: i'd wake up. Now it feels like it's a ten
Speaker 1: pound vest. So I have that every single day, and
Speaker 1: you know, you just you know it's there. And I
Speaker 1: think that it's all connected. That if you're you're feeling down,
Speaker 1: and you allow yourself to feel down and you go
Speaker 1: back down into that rabbit hole, that's when the all
Speaker 1: start closing it. So I think it's all connected. And
Speaker 1: that led to me being even more depressed. When I
Speaker 1: can go out, go for a walk, when I can
Speaker 1: play golf, when I can just get up without pain,
Speaker 1: you know, then I feel like I'm I'm a real
Speaker 1: person there. But I was feeling like I was a
Speaker 1: half a person where you're going, oh my god, I
Speaker 1: can't get up without my wife holding my hand. So
Speaker 1: I stabilized myself. So I just viewed it as long
Speaker 1: as I was making progress. Then I I didn't think
Speaker 1: about depression, which is kind of strange and I don't
Speaker 1: know what it is clinically, Chris, If you like, do
Speaker 1: we consciously think about depression or is it just it's
Speaker 1: there and you realize it's always going to be there.
Speaker 1: I don't know that, but I know my condition is
Speaker 1: still here to whatever degree. And I'm sure depression is
Speaker 1: always right around the corner. You feel that that it's
Speaker 1: always right around the corner. If the if the condition
Speaker 1: we get worse than its own cost, how does how
Speaker 1: does that make you feel when you when you don't
Speaker 1: know when it might come back or how strongly it
Speaker 1: would come back. It just motivates me to be active,
Speaker 1: to be positive, to be doing things too, like don't
Speaker 1: sit around. Don't sit around, and and you know, there
Speaker 1: are days when I take two naps in the afternoon.
Speaker 1: You know it'd be it usually at one o'clock after
Speaker 1: the show and then maybe around four thirty. Like I
Speaker 1: was in that much pain, and my wife knew it,
Speaker 1: and she just, you know, uh just said, you know,
Speaker 1: when you get up, you want to take a walk.
Speaker 1: Let me know, the last thing I wanted to do
Speaker 1: was take a walk, but I you know, I did it.
Speaker 1: And so I have to remind myself every day. When
Speaker 1: we get done with this interview, I'm going to go
Speaker 1: work out. Um, it's I have to do it. I
Speaker 1: bought a sauna because I had like every day I
Speaker 1: would get in that song. I just had to take
Speaker 1: away this this inflammation is just it would be you know, depressing.
Speaker 1: It overwhelmed you and I so I would do that
Speaker 1: and do soul cycle. Those were things that if I
Speaker 1: didn't have those then I think I would have been
Speaker 1: in a lot of trouble. So being active, active and
Speaker 1: actually you know, smiling, having to having a good out
Speaker 1: outlook on life is as corny and simple as those
Speaker 1: things are. That's what it comes down to. Sometimes for
Speaker 1: those who suffer, it just takes the one voice, whether
Speaker 1: it's Michael Phelps said Kevin Love others, for some out
Speaker 1: there that would be you. You would be the voice
Speaker 1: that would connect with them and make them understand that
Speaker 1: what they're going through need not make them feel alone,
Speaker 1: that there is a way out of it. So what
Speaker 1: if anything that you haven't already said, would you say
Speaker 1: to someone who is coping with Not the PMR that's
Speaker 1: very specific, but the feelings and thoughts that went with that,
Speaker 1: the took you to the dark places, Well, a lot
Speaker 1: of it is as a result of something leads to
Speaker 1: depression or brings depression out from what I've been told.
Speaker 1: And I think that's where you have to talk to people.
Speaker 1: If you've gone through something that's traumatic, you've lost somebody,
Speaker 1: you have a condition, you know, that's where you have
Speaker 1: to be. Just find somebody who will listen to Most
Speaker 1: people just want to tell you, they just want to
Speaker 1: talk because you're the one that's stuck with it. Everybody
Speaker 1: else goes along, you know, every day with their lives,
Speaker 1: and then you want to just grab somebody and hold
Speaker 1: them in heaven, sit down and just say, hey, I'm
Speaker 1: going through this. And it's not that I didn't have that,
Speaker 1: it was just after a while, you didn't you know,
Speaker 1: it wasn't cathartic for me, like I just needed to
Speaker 1: feel better about myself. And I think the more that
Speaker 1: you you're willing to talk to somebody it but more importantly,
Speaker 1: you have to have somebody who listens to you. That
Speaker 1: was the most important thing that I had somebody who
Speaker 1: was willing to listen, and it could be people who
Speaker 1: were going through depression, my wife obviously, and I felt
Speaker 1: like I was important, like what I was going through
Speaker 1: was important to them, and vice versus. So when somebody says, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm going through this, or hey, did you ever feel this?
Speaker 1: I'm all ears, Like I know what that feeling is like.
Speaker 1: You can tell it in somebody's eyes when they really
Speaker 1: give a shit about what you're talking about. And when
Speaker 1: they do, it's just this unbelievable weight that goes off
Speaker 1: your shoulders where you're going, Okay, I can just talk
Speaker 1: to you. I always feel like, you know the clock
Speaker 1: is running, you know, I work in a business where
Speaker 1: the clock is always running, and when I sit down
Speaker 1: and talk to somebody, I always think they're gonna go
Speaker 1: I got about two and a half minutes to get
Speaker 1: this in and and then you could just see where
Speaker 1: they're kind of going blank or they look at their
Speaker 1: watch and gotta be there. Me mom, I'm saying, And
Speaker 1: then my wife and I couldn't get up and I
Speaker 1: couldn't try my shoot, and then they're going, okay, hey,
Speaker 1: well see you again, Dan, Nice to talk to you, Like,
Speaker 1: why did I reveal myself like that? But talk to
Speaker 1: somebody and just know that you're not in it alone.
Speaker 1: You're not. But you've got to find somebody that you trust,
Speaker 1: that loves you, that cares and will listen to you,
Speaker 1: and then you try to find a solution. I am
Speaker 1: so grateful a Dan for opening up like that. It's
Speaker 1: been said that what mental health needs is more sunlight,
Speaker 1: more candor, and more unashamed conversation. And Dan's hope and
Speaker 1: ours is that someone hearing this will be helped if
Speaker 1: you're seeking help. For information, there are many places to turn.
Speaker 1: Psychology Today dot com and ap A dot org have
Speaker 1: resources to find a therapist for people in crisis. There's
Speaker 1: a website Suicide Prevention Lifeline dot org Suicide Prevention Lifeline
Speaker 1: dot org and a phone number to seven three eight
Speaker 1: to eight hundred to seven three talk. The next episode
Speaker 1: of this podcast, published a couple of days after this one,
Speaker 1: features Gary Goldman. His story of managing his anxiet pty
Speaker 1: and depression really is uplifting and hopeful. Gary's comedy special,
Speaker 1: The Great Depression is essential viewing for those interested in
Speaker 1: this topic, and it's also very very funny as always,
Speaker 1: thanks to my co executive producer Jennifer Depster and producer
Speaker 1: Jason white Cow, I would appreciate it if you'd subscribe,
Speaker 1: rates and review this podcast, and I'll talk to you soon.