WEBVTT - Is Bhutan on to something with Gross National Happiness? 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:02.880 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:07.480 It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you should know 0:00:08.080 --> 0:00:16.320 from house Stuff Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to 0:00:16.360 --> 0:00:19.000 the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with me as always as 0:00:19.120 --> 0:00:23.680 Charles W. Luscious Bryant. How's it going, Chuck? Sounding funny 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:26.560 the second time around? Josh actually had to do two 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:29.600 takes there, and to hear your name as luscious twice 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:31.720 in a row, he was very special. What did it 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:36.599 do to you? Made me feeluscious? I guess I'm doing well, sir. 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:39.080 How are you? I'm pretty good? What are happen to? 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:42.239 Luscious Jackson? Remember them? Yeah? They were good. They were 0:00:42.280 --> 0:00:46.560 around the same time as uh Good Beast you boys. Yeah, 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:50.280 because they're all buddies. Yeah yeah, I think one of 0:00:50.320 --> 0:00:53.000 them produced their album or something. She Loving Special Sauce. 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:54.480 That's who I was thinking. I was a huge fan 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:56.960 of them early on you Yeah, and then they got 0:00:56.960 --> 0:01:00.400 picked up and you're like, just I think just kind 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:05.560 of lost interest after the third seed or something. Gotcha anyway, Okay, Um, 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:11.440 Chuck equals luxious Jackson fan just just in. Also, I'm 0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:15.160 thick tongued case you had People always ask if Josh 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:17.360 eats things while we podcast, and that is not true. 0:01:17.680 --> 0:01:22.240 It has a real effect on my happiness. Yes, good 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:24.360 lead in. No, that's not the lead in. I was 0:01:24.440 --> 0:01:30.400 just trying to psych you out. The seemingly uniquely American 0:01:31.040 --> 0:01:35.480 tradition of killing census bureau workers has begun again in 0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:38.480 the just ahead of the two thousand ten census. Chuck, 0:01:38.840 --> 0:01:41.880 are they are they doing that now? Yeah, it's about 0:01:41.920 --> 0:01:44.080 that time. No one's ever knocked on my door. There 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:46.640 was a guy named Bill Sparkman, aft one year old 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:50.440 Census Bureau employee. Um, I think it's just a worker, 0:01:50.520 --> 0:01:53.640 like he was just getting work as a census taker. Uh. 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:58.480 They found his body hanging from a tree in her cemetery, Kentucky, 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:02.880 and the word fed was growled across it. Yeah, that's 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:05.760 a new kind of hate crime. Yes, well, no, it's 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:10.520 not a new Census Bureau workers get killed every everything census. Yeah, yeah, 0:02:10.639 --> 0:02:13.120 no idea. Yeah, it's weird. It's a weird thing to do, 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:15.320 but I hope they get paid. Well. Some people don't 0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:19.840 like their privacy being invaded or their land being stepped on. 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:23.800 You don't want to knock on my door, brother, Um, 0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:27.480 I can tell you a place where there are census 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:30.120 takers that probably will not be strung up in trees. 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:33.520 Bu Bhutan. You know, they had their first census just 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:36.720 like four years ago. Is that right? Bhutan has been 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:40.600 undergoing a lot of changes lately, there, chuckers Um. In 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:45.040 two thousand and eight, the king abdicated his throne in 0:02:45.120 --> 0:02:49.519 favor of a parliamentary democracy. Very popular, huge, Yeah, beloved, 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:52.200 you could say. Actually, he was the beloved son of 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:57.320 a beloved king Um and he abdicated his throne in 0:02:57.400 --> 0:03:01.280 favor of a democracy because they determined the democracies make 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:05.520 people happier than kingdoms do. So he wanted to make 0:03:05.560 --> 0:03:09.080 his small I think the census was six nine thousand people, 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:11.280 Is that it? Yeah, he wanted to make them happy. 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:14.520 He did, and uh, he did so much so that 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:17.360 they've also at the same time when they adopted a 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:20.680 new constitution in a new form of government, they also 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:25.240 adopted a pretty much a guiding principle for the country 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:30.480 called gross national happiness. Awesome. That sounds familiar, doesn't remember that, listener, Male, 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:33.360 I'm the girl who was clearly headed to Yale that 0:03:33.480 --> 0:03:35.200 this fall. Yeah, that she did the survey at her 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:38.360 own school to find out how happy the fellow students were. Yeah. Cool, 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:42.560 the the Butanies are into the same thing. You're gonna 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:47.120 try and pronounce his name, Yes, the King Jigmai Singhay 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:50.320 wang Chuck. I got the whang chuck part, definitely. They 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:53.640 said you could call him dragon King. Okay, they meaning 0:03:54.400 --> 0:03:56.680 they called me up, the Boutinees did. They said you 0:03:56.720 --> 0:03:58.720 can just call him dragon King. They heard that we 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:02.160 were doing this podcast. Indeed, okay, well, the Dragon King, 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:04.840 thank you for that. By the thing, um, back in 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:08.760 ninety two, he came up with the idea of gross 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:13.960 national happiness. Um, that's probably sounds a lot like gross 0:04:14.000 --> 0:04:17.760 domestic product or gross national product. Right, And I'm we've 0:04:17.760 --> 0:04:19.400 talked about before. I'm glad you pointed out in the 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:22.240 article too that this isn't just uh, it wasn't just 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:24.720 a fluffy little happy thing they decided to do. They 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:26.720 were really serious about it. Nor is it tongue in 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:30.040 cheek like the five day weekend, which we've also talked about. Right, 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:36.000 This is that they've taken well, we'll we'll break this down, yes, okay. Basically, 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:39.279 what the Boutanies have done is come to a collective 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:45.400 agreement that number one, happiness is not just a response 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:49.040 to external stimuli like a new car or something like that. 0:04:49.320 --> 0:04:52.640 They've taken the decidedly more Buddhist approach to happiness that 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:55.919 it comes from within, right, which is a lovely sentiment. 0:04:55.960 --> 0:04:59.120 I think that's that's step one. It's easy for Boutan 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:03.760 to do it because there a Buddhist country right right, um, peaceful. 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:06.719 So step one was to say, all right, happiness comes 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:09.800 from with him. Step two is to say, okay, how 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:16.240 do you achieve this happiness? Key? They actually did this 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:18.559 survey over three months. I think it was a hundred 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:20.800 and eight questions, and that was the second version. The 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:23.160 first one was determined to be just way too long. Yes, 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:26.520 also those questions too. It's pretty cool, Like what buddy well, 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:28.240 I mean I went to that. Uh what was the 0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:31.599 website gross National Happiness dot Com? I think actually, or 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:34.520 or one of the two was it. I can't remember 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:37.599 it an organ it may be. I can't remember what 0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:39.480 the questions where you didn't know you're gonna put me 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:41.120 on the spot like this, but there were things like 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:43.919 how do you feel about or how much rest do 0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:46.800 you get when you perform certain tasks and how does 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:49.800 this make you feel about your family? Just things like that. 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:53.800 So what they came up with, Chuck, was a basically 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:58.000 nine guiding principles toward happiness. Right, Yes, I actually have 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:02.000 them here? I do too. Oh real, Yes, that means 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:05.440 touch and french. Um what are they, chuck, because I 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:09.120 can't find my cherry loves that joke? Uh? Time use, 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:17.360 living standards, good governance, psychological well being, community fatality, culture, health, 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:22.960 and education ecology okay, or those are two, I think 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:26.680 education and ecology. So basically they've figured out that these 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:30.280 are the nine things combined that make a happy life. Right, 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:32.240 I could dig that, and I mean some of them 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:38.520 sound a little obtuse, like psychological well being? What is that? Right? Um? Basically, 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:43.200 what they've they've come up with is you can't just say, hey, 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:45.680 how how happy are you? Scale a one to ten? 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:50.480 Or would you say seven it's not bad? Um? Would 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:54.800 you say that you're more happy, less happy, or just 0:06:54.839 --> 0:06:57.279 as happy as you were last year? Like the Butanees 0:06:57.360 --> 0:07:00.360 pretty much immediately threw this out the window. They said 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:03.880 that this is just it's too imprecise, and we have 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:08.360 to turn this into a metric system a system of metrices, 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:13.480 is that, right? Metrices? Okay, they wanted to quantify it 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:16.680 very much so because they're, like you said, they're very 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:20.800 very serious about this. Right. So, Um, let's say, let's 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:25.160 take psychological well being. They they took these guiding principles 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:28.840 and then they broke them down by indicators. Right, So 0:07:29.040 --> 0:07:33.080 you have an indicator like the prevalence of UM negative 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:37.520 emotions like jealousy or frustration or selfishness, the prevalence of 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:43.880 positive emotions like UM, generosity, compassion, calmness. Right, and um 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:47.000 that those right there are indicators that when you compile 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:51.000 them all together in a survey, you have an impression 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:54.520 of the psychological well being of the household that's being 0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:57.880 taken in the census. Right. Could you imagine our country 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:00.520 ever doing anything remotely close to this? Know? And the 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:05.440 reason why is because we just like the Boutaneese recently said, 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:08.600 we're going to collectively agree that we want to focus 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:16.120 our our national focus on happiness the the US A 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:19.760 long time ago, actually around World War two, when the 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:24.600 g MP was first introduced. Um, we made a collective 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:31.520 agreement that we want to focus on materialism, money stuff 0:08:32.600 --> 0:08:36.800 that's how we measure our um our well being in 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:39.280 this country. And that's not to say that it's any 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:44.240 worse or better, um than Bhutan's idea. It's just radically different. 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:46.280 And one of the reasons it is radically different is 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:49.800 because in this country we don't tech, We don't we 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:53.319 don't tend to think of happiness as coming from within. 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:57.960 It is like behavioral psychologists believe, or a lot of 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:01.880 them do. It's the spons of physiological response to an 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:05.600 external stimuli. Right. So we've said, yeah, so we've said 0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:08.160 we're going to go for the materialism route, and this 0:09:08.200 --> 0:09:10.880 is what's going to dictate our policies. How much money 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:12.920 do you have. If you've got a bunch of money, 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:14.959 you can go get your car and all that stuff. 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:16.480 So let's figure out how to make a bunch of 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:19.400 money for everybody in this country. Right. Um. And even 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:23.120 if you on a an individual level don't agree with 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:27.080 the concept of materialism, if you're in the US, you 0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:29.920 tacitly agree with it just by going to work every day. 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:33.440 The whole, the whole point of most of your waking 0:09:33.480 --> 0:09:36.200 life is accumulation of money, right, or you're looked at 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:38.320 as a freak of nature. If you are one of 0:09:38.320 --> 0:09:41.600 those people who decided to drop out and go live 0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:45.200 off the grid and so they're on seed in the mountains. Sure, 0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:47.640 you're a weirdo in this country if you do that, 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:50.000 or if you die after three months, they make a 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:54.480 movie about you and a book The bear guy. Who 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:57.040 I thought you talk about Timothy Treadwell, the grizzly Bear. No, 0:09:57.120 --> 0:10:01.160 I was talking about Christopher McCandless. Okay, Sure, from into 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:05.560 the Wild thing similar, similar thing the bear. I thought 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:08.640 that was actually about a bear. No, Timothy Treadwell was 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:11.080 as a bear enthusiast who went to live among the 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:13.800 bears and was killed by a bear. Was killed Neaton 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:17.319 by bear. What a way to go. So, Chuck, let's 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:23.880 get back to how how Bhutan has made this quantified? Right? Yes, 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:27.079 so you've got uh. We were talking about psychological well 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:29.760 being and then all these different indicators. One of the 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:32.760 other things that they've decided to do is to take 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:38.920 um objective data as well as subjective data to evaluate 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:43.120 just how much worth something has. Right um. I was 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:46.880 reading pretty much a breakdown of the gross national happiness 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:50.360 system that Bhutan has by the the Center for Boutan 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:54.760 Studies it's pretty impressive. It is um and what they've 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:57.760 what they've said is so you've got like crime. Right 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:01.640 in the US, we have time statistics, and then the 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:05.520 FBI issues the uniform Crime Report every year, right, and 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:10.839 it gets kind of granular, like um, crime perpetrated by race, 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:15.120 by gender, by age, what kind of crime? It's real granular, 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:17.160 it does. But really, if you think about it, it's 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:21.000 just a statistic like I shoot you you die. That's 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:24.640 one homicide, right, right, So what the botanis do is 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:27.240 they still have these crime statistics. They use crime data, 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:30.599 but they take it a step further through these surveys 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:34.920 and say how safe do you feel? Okay, I guess 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:36.439 that's one of the perks of having a country of 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:40.200 six people. Sure, I guess the census goes a lot 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:44.040 faster um. But but so that one, right, So the 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:49.120 crime statistics taken with how safe the population self reports feeling, 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:53.120 that would be part of community vitality. Right. Yeah, it 0:11:53.160 --> 0:11:56.160 makes sense, it does, doesn't it. It's weird that it 0:11:56.240 --> 0:12:01.120 makes sense because really it's the op is it of 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:06.199 the premise behind gross domestic product or gross national product, 0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:08.440 which is all material but it uses a lot of 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:12.959 the same UM model, but rather than money, it's going 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:16.679 for happiness. You know, I think that boggling. Actually, I 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:18.000 think it's the only way they could have pulled this 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:21.120 off is if if they did use like a GDP 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:23.920 model instead of just kind of willing really throwing some 0:12:24.040 --> 0:12:26.760 questions out there about happiness. Right, they actually said that 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:30.320 in this breakdown of Gross National Happiness that like, you know, 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:33.000 it's a great idea, but we had to quantify it 0:12:33.080 --> 0:12:34.720 or else it was just going to be useless. So 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:37.280 they really went to town on it. Right. So what 0:12:37.400 --> 0:12:43.120 they've done is take these nine guiding principles, right and 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:48.160 dimensions dimensions that's rights, and they they've they've broken them 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:50.640 down into all these different indicators, right that can be 0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:58.319 UM subjectively reported on. And they've established a threshold, just 0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:01.480 like we use for poverty lines. Right, So in the US, 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:03.520 what is it If you're an individual and you make 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:07.760 like some some ridiculously low amount, like thirteen thousand dollars 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:11.959 a year, you're you're below the poverty line. But if 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:14.840 you make thirteen thousand and one dollars, you're above the 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:19.920 poverty line. Um. They they created thresholds UM for achievement 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:25.880 is how they put it UM to where let's say, uh, 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:27.920 we'll go back to a scale just to make it easier. 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:32.440 On a scale of one to ten. UM four is 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:38.800 the is the threshold for UM general psycho psychological well being? Right, Okay, 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:43.280 So if you have if you say yes to X 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:46.960 number of questions on these indicators and then they add 0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:51.240 them all up and your score is five, you've surpassed 0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:53.360 the threshold, but you're not put down as a five, 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:56.840 put down as a four. Do you understand what I'm saying? 0:13:57.360 --> 0:13:59.640 What they're what they're doing in that is that they 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:05.400 have chosen to focus on building up any deficits that 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:09.880 turn up in gross national happiness, uh, as opposed to 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:15.360 UM touting how happy that the happiest people actually are. Yeah, 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:18.040 their goal is to to be a happier country, right, 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:19.840 So have a lot of poor people there too, Like 0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:22.280 they're really being hard on themselves here, Like their gross 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:25.720 national happiness the most it could ever possibly be. If 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:28.960 every single person in the country is happy at the 0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:34.760 same time, is one. Everything else is negative. Okay, So 0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:37.600 then they go focus on why it's negative and they 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:39.680 break it down much the same way like the FBI 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:43.240 breaks down crime like by gender, by region, by um, 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:45.680 by age, and then they can say, all right, what 0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:48.720 can we do to make these people happier? What's lacking? 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:52.800 You see what I'm saying. It's it's I don't I hate. 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:54.560 I hesitate to use the word crazy because I don't 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:58.680 want anyone to get the impression that I'm I'm casting 0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:04.520 any doubt or dispersion on it. This is crazy, is yeah, Well, 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:07.640 especially considering where they are. I mentioned the poverty line 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:11.840 or you did of their country lives below the poverty line, right, 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:15.240 but in a Buddhist country, that doesn't necessarily mean these 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:17.560 people are unhappy. Well no, because they only have an 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:21.440 unemployment rate of two point five, so the material is 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:25.800 not that important. They're working, and I saw there They're 0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:29.840 big exports are there in Their industrial exports are cement, 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:33.600 that's like their biggest industrial exports, and then wood products 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:35.760 and then agriculture is their big deal with rice and 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:37.920 corn and stuff like that. Okay, so what we've just 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:42.560 talked about is that they have a thirties something percent 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:46.880 live below the poverty line. But it's a Buddhist country, 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:49.360 so they're big into the rejection of materialism, so that 0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:51.680 doesn't really matter or does it. One of the other 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:54.480 things that the Gross National Happiness model that they've come 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:57.840 up with serves as is a is a a framework 0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:01.480 for accountability for the government, right for the government's like, well, 0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:04.840 we just all reject materialism, so um, you know, it 0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:08.000 doesn't matter if you're below the poverty line. If they 0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:11.360 enough people start self reporting that they're actually unhappy, and 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:13.520 all these people happen to be falling below the poverty 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:17.880 line that's published for you know, Buddha and everybody to see, 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:19.680 and then all of a sudden you can point to 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:21.880 the government like, you guys are wrong, you're making some 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:24.400 incorrect assumptions, and we need to fix this over here 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:28.440 by making more money. If that's yeah, yeah, because if 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:33.320 you're dedicated to the happiness collectively and individually of your population, 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:35.960 then yes, it's going to turn up on this gross 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:41.280 National Happiness um economic indicator or indicator, and uh, it's 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:43.520 gonna need to be fixed or else you've just been 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:47.720 blowing smoke up everybody's Uh, you know what their real 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:50.680 GDP was? Actually I checked that out per capita. What 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:54.800 would you guess if America is forty six and change, 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:56.920 what would you think it would be there in Bhuddan 0:16:57.320 --> 0:17:03.440 three dollars per year, Yeah, five thousand two d okay 0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:06.160 per capita GDP. I can see that. So they still 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:08.960 I guess that's a world fact that you have to have. 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:12.560 They still have the GDP. Right, that's an excellent point, Chuck. 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:15.879 The reason that they they instituted gross national Happiness is 0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:18.359 because they I think the leaders kind of saw the 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:21.320 writing on the wall, like, you you can only remain 0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:23.520 shut off for so long. And this is very much 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:25.400 a shut off kingdom. It's high up in the mountains 0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:28.480 between China and India, and they have yes very much, 0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:32.200 so they've isolated themselves. But the internet came in two 0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:36.520 thousand one, TV showed up in and it brought with 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:40.360 it these Western influences. So what the leaders said, rather 0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:44.040 than you can't have TV, you can't have internet, they said, okay, 0:17:44.320 --> 0:17:47.080 we'll we'll enter the world stage, but we're gonna do 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:49.480 it on our own terms. And this is this is 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:52.240 how we're going to applaud it. So let's get to 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:56.399 the point there, chuckers as to whether or not Bhutan's 0:17:56.480 --> 0:17:59.600 actually onto something like there there's this is an age 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:04.640 old question like is money more important than happiness. Can 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:09.320 money buy happiness? Let's talk about some some studies, not 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:12.399 necessarily once conducted in Bhutan, but just in general, like 0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:16.119 does money provide happiness? I think if you were just 0:18:16.160 --> 0:18:20.080 to talk about Bhutan now, you'd be uh, you'd find 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:22.720 out pretty quick that five thousand, two hundred dollars a 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:26.480 year that they is their GDP. They're probably pretty happy. 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:28.600 And if you talk to your average American they might 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:30.959 not be as happy. That's just a guess, agreed. But 0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:34.720 the g n H will turn that up sure eventually, right, 0:18:34.840 --> 0:18:37.880 they'll they'll turn the frown upside down. Right, Actually, check 0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:42.320 the boutanies. Census takers aren't the only people who go 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:45.240 around asking people if they're happy. I know you're talking 0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:47.560 about who am I talking about? The World Value Survey? 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:50.399 That's right. Um, they ask people how happy they are, 0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:53.000 and they've been doing it for a long time since actually, 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:56.960 and they usually ask about three fifty thousand people, uh 0:18:57.000 --> 0:19:00.639 in ninety seven countries. And they asked too much country. 0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:06.760 They asked that many their whole um survey populations. Um. 0:19:06.880 --> 0:19:11.240 They they asked two questions. You ready, taking all things together, 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:13.920 would you say you are very happy? Rather happy, not 0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:18.439 very happy, not at all happy. That's one question. And 0:19:18.480 --> 0:19:21.760 then secondly, all things considered, how satisfied are you with 0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:23.720 your life as a whole these days? And that's it 0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:26.360 to two questions survey, right, and then they ranked countries. 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:29.119 In two thousand and eight, the happiest country on the 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:32.280 planet was Denmark. I could, I could believe that the 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:36.760 US ranks six, right, but if you look according at 0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:39.159 the CIA, if you look at um per capita g 0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:44.160 d P, the US was I think number eight, number five, 0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:46.359 and another number eight in two thousand and eight, and 0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:51.919 then Denmark was number thirty. So they're the happiest country, 0:19:51.920 --> 0:19:53.640 but they don't make nearly as much money as the US. 0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:58.840 No correlation there, but not necessarily. There's a lot of 0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:04.199 criticism of the World Value Survey um number one. Somebody 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:08.240 pointed out number one, uh that you how do you 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:11.600 translate happiness from we? We? You and I can't even 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:16.520 describe what real happiness is? Necessarily we could possibly anecdotally, 0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:20.679 but it's so subjective. Number one, How can you and I, 0:20:20.760 --> 0:20:24.280 who have so much in common, not established what happiness is? 0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:27.359 That that you can also spread it out over ninety 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:30.399 seven countries and all these different societies and groups within it. 0:20:30.800 --> 0:20:34.720 So that's that's number one. Um number two. I read 0:20:34.760 --> 0:20:37.600 an article that pointed out that, yeah, Denmark um is 0:20:37.640 --> 0:20:40.119 the happiest country in the world. It also leads the 0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:45.600 world in per capita alcoholism and suicide. Really, yeah, I 0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:52.080 understand the alcohol part. Yeah, suicide, No, it doesn't, So, Chuck, 0:20:52.640 --> 0:20:57.200 it's becoming evident. Just what a responsibility, what a task 0:20:57.640 --> 0:21:00.879 Bhutan is taking on its own shoulders, isn't it. I mean, like, 0:21:00.960 --> 0:21:03.760 happiness is really tough to quantify, and they've done a 0:21:03.800 --> 0:21:06.520 great job trying to figure that out. But yeah, I 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:08.399 know they do the studies, and you pointed one in 0:21:08.440 --> 0:21:12.520 your article, your fine, fine article about didn't I thought 0:21:12.560 --> 0:21:18.080 it was okay? Uh about um? They always study lottery winners. Yes, 0:21:18.200 --> 0:21:20.719 I love this, and they always compare them to amputees, 0:21:20.760 --> 0:21:22.760 which I just I find odds. No, it was just 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:25.159 a very famous one that started it. Is that what 0:21:25.200 --> 0:21:28.479 it is, it's like, is happiness relative? Well, and then 0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:32.320 what do they find out that after the initial joy 0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:34.640 of the lottery war off the people kind of generally, 0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:37.440 and the same with the ampute they generally go back 0:21:37.480 --> 0:21:39.119 to where they were before. Yeah, if you look at 0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:42.000 it as like a line of horizontal line. Uh, and 0:21:42.080 --> 0:21:44.359 the event happens at the same time. Somebody loses their 0:21:44.440 --> 0:21:47.320 leg and another person loses their wins the lottery. The 0:21:47.359 --> 0:21:50.040 lottery winner goes up, the ampute goes down. But after 0:21:50.119 --> 0:21:52.879 three years they both go back to that same line, 0:21:53.640 --> 0:21:56.680 which is kind of startling if you think about it. Yeah, 0:21:56.680 --> 0:21:58.800 and you also made the point about money, which I 0:21:58.800 --> 0:22:02.600 thought was a really good point. Is dichotomous. So money 0:22:02.680 --> 0:22:06.200 can bring many things. Money can bring happiness and cool 0:22:06.200 --> 0:22:10.200 stuff and security, and it can also, uh be the 0:22:10.200 --> 0:22:12.400 the evil in your life. It can be I mean 0:22:12.720 --> 0:22:15.800 that that security. You've got financial security, but maybe you're 0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:18.639 a little more worried that you're you know, house is 0:22:18.640 --> 0:22:22.160 going to be invaded, right for during a robbery or something. Yeah. 0:22:22.440 --> 0:22:25.600 The point with pursuing happiness that I think the Boutanees 0:22:25.680 --> 0:22:31.520 are hip on is that happiness only brings happiness. Good point. Um. 0:22:31.560 --> 0:22:33.879 There was another study by a couple of guys from 0:22:33.920 --> 0:22:39.240 Princeton at all um and Uh they basically use something 0:22:39.400 --> 0:22:44.199 called day reconstruction method, which is self reporting. But you know, 0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:47.520 self reporting it flies in the soft social sciences. But 0:22:47.560 --> 0:22:51.199 that's about it. Um. But basically they asked people to, 0:22:51.560 --> 0:22:55.480 um write down their experiences that from the previous day. 0:22:55.760 --> 0:22:57.880 I can do that over a set period of time, right, 0:22:58.040 --> 0:23:00.480 I'd love to see mine from like yesterday, that'd be great. 0:23:00.480 --> 0:23:02.359 Oh yeah, we're in a bad mood yesterday. No, just 0:23:02.480 --> 0:23:05.440 were you drunk? No, they wanted their charting your mood 0:23:05.520 --> 0:23:08.560 or what you did and how it correspondents. I think both. Yeah, 0:23:08.600 --> 0:23:11.640 i'd left. We should do that. You want there, No, 0:23:11.720 --> 0:23:16.240 I don't either. Um. What these guys found was that 0:23:16.480 --> 0:23:19.640 when you when you ask people to report on their 0:23:19.640 --> 0:23:23.440 mood right as it happens or the day after it's happened, 0:23:23.720 --> 0:23:26.760 and then you evaluated by income, they found that actually 0:23:27.040 --> 0:23:33.080 money did, indeed, um bring happiness to a certain extent, right, Right. 0:23:33.320 --> 0:23:35.760 So the point is is, I think people who made 0:23:35.840 --> 0:23:40.280 under twenty thousand dollars a year are actually less happy 0:23:40.400 --> 0:23:44.560 than people who make a hundred thousand or more. Okay, 0:23:43.960 --> 0:23:46.280 that's kind of a no brainer to think about it. 0:23:46.320 --> 0:23:48.280