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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Law with June Bresso from Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 1: For former socialite Glaine Maxwell, the moment of reckoning is

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Speaker 1: at hand. This week in Manhattan federal court, jury selection

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Speaker 1: began for her trial on trafficking underage girls for sexual

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Speaker 1: abuse by her former boyfriend Jeffrey Epstein. The fifty nine

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Speaker 1: year old faces six felony charges. All four alleged victims

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Speaker 1: are expected to testify. If convicted of the most serious crimes,

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Speaker 1: Maxwell could face as long as forty years in prison.

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Speaker 1: Joining me is Bloomberg Legal reporter Patricia Hurtado, who's covering

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Speaker 1: the trial. Patty. For those who don't know, tell us

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Speaker 1: who Glaine Maxwell is. Gleam Maxwell is a British socialite,

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Speaker 1: Oxford educated born in Paris, daughter of former British publishing

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Speaker 1: baron Sir Robert Maxwell. She is his youngest child and

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Speaker 1: she's allegedly was a former girlfriend of Jeffrey Epstein's and

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Speaker 1: the government argues that Maxwell conspired with Epstein in the

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Speaker 1: six trafficking scheme, accused of alluring underage girls to Epstein's

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Speaker 1: so he could sexually abuse them, and also for participating

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Speaker 1: some of the abuse. The defense she's been mounting all

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Speaker 1: the lawyers, all the motions is expensive. How much money

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Speaker 1: does she have now? It's about two million, and the

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Speaker 1: government has previously alleged that she got twenty million was

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Speaker 1: transferred from accounts tied to Epstein to her accounts offshore accounts,

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Speaker 1: and so the government says that she's got at least

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Speaker 1: twenty million dollars, which is the reason why they said

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Speaker 1: she had the money and the ability to flee. She

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Speaker 1: has a French passport and if she fled to France,

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Speaker 1: they don't extradsee. So she's been in custody since she

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Speaker 1: was arrested in July of So, looking at the prosecution's case,

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Speaker 1: what is the prosecution expected to present? But the government

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Speaker 1: already promised they're going to have four They were underage

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Speaker 1: women under the law that it was illegal for Epstein

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Speaker 1: to have sex with them at the time he sexually

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Speaker 1: abused them. They're going to have these four underage women

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Speaker 1: who are now older. Some of the accuse went back

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Speaker 1: as far as when one of the accusers was about

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Speaker 1: thirteen or fourteen years old. So they're going to call

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Speaker 1: these victims who they say are victims. Maxwell wanted to

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Speaker 1: argue they're not victims, and they should just be called accusers.

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Speaker 1: So the government is going to call these four people

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Speaker 1: to testify, including some of them may testify under pseudonyms

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Speaker 1: or nicknames because some of the testimony is incredibly embarrassing

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Speaker 1: and it happened to them when they were younger. What

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Speaker 1: other witnesses are we likely to see? They've also promised

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Speaker 1: that they're going to call other witnesses who may have

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Speaker 1: been present or known about the Epstein sex trafficking. So

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Speaker 1: it sounds like what the government wants to do is

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Speaker 1: call additional victims, although it's not clear yet. Also, there

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Speaker 1: was a two thousand eight search by Palm Beach Police

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Speaker 1: and they went to Epstein's home and they seized evidence,

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Speaker 1: including photographs as well as a massage table. There's apparently

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Speaker 1: some sex toys. Also, interestingly, there's been discussion of seizure.

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Speaker 1: Somehow the government got ahold of what's called Epstein's Little

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Speaker 1: Black Book, and it's an addressed book with names and

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Speaker 1: telephone numbers. But there's apparently also another book tied to

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Speaker 1: going Maxwell. It's some kind of addressed book and one

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Speaker 1: of these books the government has says they have evidence

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Speaker 1: that include the names of these underaged young women, as

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Speaker 1: well as telephone numbers for their parents. So I guess

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Speaker 1: the idea is they were so young they didn't have

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Speaker 1: cell phones at the time, and their moms or dads

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Speaker 1: that so there was contact information for their parents in

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Speaker 1: these phone books. And there's also listings about names under

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Speaker 1: massages for these girls allegedly, So the judge hasn't ruled

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Speaker 1: on how much evidence the government's going to be allowed

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Speaker 1: to show the jury. Of course, the defenses are doing

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Speaker 1: vociferously than strongly that some of this information is too

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Speaker 1: prejudicial and can't be tied to Maxwell. Are there emails

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Speaker 1: or texts that are tied to her? Yes? There apparently

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Speaker 1: are also email exchanged between Epstein and Maxwell. We know

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Speaker 1: of at least one of them that came out as

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Speaker 1: part of evidence in Virginia. Guffre is that Epstein Maxwell

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Speaker 1: at user who sued Maxwell for defamation, and they settled

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Speaker 1: the lawsuit, but the documents tied to that later got unsealed,

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Speaker 1: and so one of them is an email that Epstein

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Speaker 1: and Max all exchange that showed they were still in

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Speaker 1: contact after he had his non prosecution deal with federal

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Speaker 1: prosecutors in two thousand eight, and basically Epstein is telling

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Speaker 1: Maxwell to keep your chin up and don't act like

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Speaker 1: a criminal. So we definitely have seen some emails, and

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Speaker 1: the government has promised more evidence. The defense lawyer said

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Speaker 1: he intends to ask the alleged victims why they failed

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Speaker 1: to come forward sooner, if substance abuse impaired their memories,

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Speaker 1: and also wants to question them about their sexual behavior.

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Speaker 1: Those sounds like questions from years ago, before the Me

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Speaker 1: Too movement, blaming the victim. You got it there. I

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Speaker 1: agree with you. I've covered courts for years now, and

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Speaker 1: I cover State Court in Brooklyn, and there were many

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Speaker 1: occasions that caused outrage back then where defense lawyers wanted

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Speaker 1: to question a witness. I can remember one of prostitute.

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Speaker 1: She had witnessed a murder or an attempted murder, and

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Speaker 1: the lawyer wanted to question her about her sex life

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Speaker 1: and her sex history. So that was not allowed and

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Speaker 1: that caused If you're at least twenty years ago in

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Speaker 1: Brooklyn State Supreme Court, it's hard to believe it's and

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Speaker 1: we're having this discussion again. The judge, it's unclear what

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Speaker 1: she has ruled. She had an in camera hearing with

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Speaker 1: the lawyers about that testimony and how much the defense

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Speaker 1: is going to be allowed to raise the sexual background

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Speaker 1: of these complaining witnesses, these four women. I mean, you

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Speaker 1: could argue it's not out of the realm of the

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Speaker 1: possible that even if someone is sexually active, they can

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Speaker 1: still be victimized by someone else and it's still going

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Speaker 1: to be a crime. Now, I don't know whether that's

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Speaker 1: to raise reasonable doubt. Seems like that's what the defense

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Speaker 1: is trying to do, and it's unclear that's still on

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Speaker 1: the table, and the judge hasn't officially said what her

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Speaker 1: ruling is on that. Besides attacking the victims, are trying

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Speaker 1: to discredit them. Do you have a sense of what

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Speaker 1: the defense is going to be. It sounds like the

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Speaker 1: defense there's kind of a hodgepodge of things. But there

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Speaker 1: was a defense filing a couple of weeks ago which

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Speaker 1: was they'd like to call these two experts their forensic psychiatrists.

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Speaker 1: Is one of them is an expert on false memory,

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Speaker 1: and it's a woman who testified at Harvey Weinstein's trial

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Speaker 1: that people can have false memories of some traumatic event

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Speaker 1: like a sexual assault. And she testified at Harvey Weinstein's

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Speaker 1: trial that maybe these women were making up these stories

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Speaker 1: and the jury did believe it and rejected that and

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Speaker 1: convicted Harvey Weinstein. The prosecution says that this doctor and

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Speaker 1: this expert has never been allowed to testify in federal court.

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Speaker 1: That's also a pending request. They also want to call

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Speaker 1: an expert that says there's no such thing as grooming

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Speaker 1: in a sexual abuse case. You know, we've heard, now,

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Speaker 1: I guess in the common nomenclature that someone was being

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Speaker 1: groomed for abuse by getting presents and gifts and being enticed.

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Speaker 1: And I guess the defense is trying to blunt that

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Speaker 1: with suggesting there is no such thing as grooming. This

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Speaker 1: is just a concoctive theory or concoctive terminology. It's kind

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Speaker 1: of psycho babble, and that it's really just being nice

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Speaker 1: can be misinterpreted as grooming. So they were trying to

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Speaker 1: keep the testimony about grooming out of the case. It

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Speaker 1: sounds like the judges willing and favor the government and

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Speaker 1: not allowing this claim that grooming doesn't exist. They're also

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Speaker 1: arguing that Epstein had the halo effect, and they argue

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Speaker 1: that they want to have an expert that he had

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Speaker 1: a personality trait he was able to exploit the halo effect,

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Speaker 1: like surrounded by this aura of wonderfulness that automatically attracted

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Speaker 1: people to him, and that people were attracted to his wealth,

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Speaker 1: some people seeking some of the wealth that he had

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Speaker 1: and his aura of attractiveness, if you will. It sounds

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Speaker 1: like the defense wants to argue that, you know, maybe

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Speaker 1: perhaps Maxwell fell into that lore of Epstein's halo effect

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Speaker 1: and that she too came under his spell. So is

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Speaker 1: there any chance that she'll take the stand in her

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Speaker 1: own defense. I don't think so, mainly because she's are

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Speaker 1: also charged with perjury and she's charged with wine under

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Speaker 1: oath during depositions she gave in that Virginia Gufrey defamation lawsuit.

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Speaker 1: So grew Fris lawyers David Boy's question x well, and

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Speaker 1: the government says that based on her answers claiming that

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Speaker 1: she didn't know anything about sexualized massages involving teenage girls

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Speaker 1: under the age of consent, that she was lying, and

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Speaker 1: so they charged her with two counts of perjury. So

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Speaker 1: the judge has ruled that those perjury counts will be

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Speaker 1: tried later, and so Maxwell would be opening herself up

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Speaker 1: to basically getting confronted about whether or not those were

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Speaker 1: wise before that perjury case can go forward. I don't

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Speaker 1: think her lawyers want to put her in that position.

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Speaker 1: So how does she appear You've been sitting through jury selection.

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Speaker 1: How does she appear in the courtroom? Well, it's been

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Speaker 1: an interesting transformation. I mean we all had seen her

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Speaker 1: with that great short Bob's black haircut, you know, shining

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Speaker 1: black hair, dangling earring, dressed at gala's and going to

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Speaker 1: events smiling, you know, as a British socialite. She's even

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Speaker 1: photographed going to the Ascot Races, the Royal Ascot Races

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Speaker 1: with Prince Andrew in a giant hat and beautiful clothes.

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Speaker 1: She came to court earlier this year and she was

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Speaker 1: just you know, drawn out, pale, wearing prison guard like

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Speaker 1: prison fatigues, and she was shackled like Marley's Ghost, wearing

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Speaker 1: a chain around her waist and she was handcuffed to

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Speaker 1: that chain, and then she had shackles around her ankles.

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Speaker 1: The first day she came in for the hearings this week,

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Speaker 1: they started individual questioning of jurors. She was wearing a

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Speaker 1: black turtleneck and a pair of gray slacks and like

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Speaker 1: black ballet flats. She had a huge smile on her

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Speaker 1: face and she hugged all of her lawyers and seem

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Speaker 1: very chipper and happy, and she's been very animated. She's

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Speaker 1: also been irritated, apparently by the court artists. So she

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Speaker 1: has turned around and they have, you know, court sketch artists,

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Speaker 1: because photography is not allowed in federal court. So there's

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Speaker 1: these professional artists that come to court and they draw

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Speaker 1: the scene, and they may draw the witness that they

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Speaker 1: draw the descendants, and they draw the judge. In this case,

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Speaker 1: they're not going to be allowed to draw some of

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Speaker 1: these witnesses, these women accusers. But Maxwell seemed irritated. And

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Speaker 1: I was sitting next to one of the court artists

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Speaker 1: and Maxwell shot a look at me and then went

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Speaker 1: over and started scribbling madly on her pad. She had

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Speaker 1: like a notepad, so she was drawing the court artists

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Speaker 1: as they drew her. And she looked very fierce. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I guess everyone deals with it in their own way

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Speaker 1: of the pressures of being on trial. How is jury

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Speaker 1: selection been going, What kinds of concerns has the judge

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Speaker 1: been addressing. The judge has basically tried to find out

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Speaker 1: what they know about the f Stein case and what

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Speaker 1: do they know about Maxwell if they seen the Netflix series.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think there's been three different up for

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Speaker 1: a television series. Of books have been written about this.

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Speaker 1: The Miami Harold reporter Julie Brown investigated it for The

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Speaker 1: Miami Harold into the multi part series. She wrote a

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Speaker 1: book that just come out. So the judge needs to

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Speaker 1: find out what they know about Epstein Maxwell case, and

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Speaker 1: they have any biases or prejudice based on what they've

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Speaker 1: known or read. And so there was even a guy

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Speaker 1: today we had that actually met Epstein, which seems like

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Speaker 1: if you've got a jury that comes from the southern

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Speaker 1: district of New York's five Counties, which includes Manhattan, the Bronx, Westchester,

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Speaker 1: Putnam and Rockland County, you would think that somebody in

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Speaker 1: Manhattan in all these decades where Epstein lived might have

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Speaker 1: had some interactions with him. I've certainly covered trials since

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Speaker 1: the descendants, neighbors, you know, show up on the jury

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Speaker 1: or something. But in this case, there was only one

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Speaker 1: guy out of dozens of people interviewed, and he said

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Speaker 1: he had had a business feeling with Epstein, who was

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Speaker 1: an investor in his fund, and that he met Epstein once,

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Speaker 1: very briefly for thirty seconds. So um, the judge asked,

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Speaker 1: having met Epstein, did that caused him to follow the

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Speaker 1: case more closely, which he said yes, So he was

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Speaker 1: actually excused our opening statements on Monday. No. Actually, they

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Speaker 1: went through questionnaire with like about six hundred people that

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Speaker 1: they summoned. Of those six hundred, they brought in two

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Speaker 1: hundred thirty one that qualified based on their answers, there

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Speaker 1: was nothing really apparent that you know, disqualified them from sitting.

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Speaker 1: And then the judge interviewed uh, almost sixty people starting

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Speaker 1: on Monday, and she's been doing whole day sessions of

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Speaker 1: nine hours at a time interviewing, so she's got about

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Speaker 1: sixty and she's allowing the lawyers they know who these

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Speaker 1: potential jurors are, and they have the names, they're going

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Speaker 1: to be allowed to see if there's any conflict or

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Speaker 1: they have any objection students people. So she's giving them

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Speaker 1: time him to do the research and figure out who

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Speaker 1: they want on the jury, and they're going to actually

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Speaker 1: come into court on November twenty nine. They're gonna pick

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Speaker 1: the jury and do peremptory challenges and they're going to

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Speaker 1: pick a jury of twelve and six alternates on and

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Speaker 1: then they're going to do opening statements. So, and the

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Speaker 1: judge herself has made some news recently. Yeah, it was

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Speaker 1: kind of surprising. Uh, she was very corey about it.

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Speaker 1: But she announced everyone after it came out in the

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Speaker 1: New York Times that Senator Charles Schimmer was recommending her

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Speaker 1: to be on the federal appeals court called the Second

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Speaker 1: Circuit Court of Appeals. So she told everyone she wanted

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Speaker 1: to give them comfort that she intended to stay with

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Speaker 1: the case and keep the case till it was done.

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Speaker 1: And we have had judges in the past that have

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Speaker 1: kept cases, like Denny Chin, federal judge in the Southern District,

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Speaker 1: and he got nominated to the Second Circuit Court of

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Speaker 1: Appeals while he still had the made Off Turning made

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Speaker 1: off case, so he kept it even after he was

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Speaker 1: on the Circuit. Thanks for being the Bloomberg Gloss Show, Patty.

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Speaker 1: That's Bloomberg Legal reporter Patricia Hurtado. The prosecution is wrapping

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Speaker 1: up its case against Elizabeth Holmes, arguing that Holmes was

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Speaker 1: remarkably deceptive and building blood testing start up there a

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Speaker 1: nose into a nine billion dollar company, dazzling partners and

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Speaker 1: investors with the expectation they would profit from a revolution

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Speaker 1: in healthcare, even though she knew her blood analyzers were

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Speaker 1: failed technology. Holmes is now at the point in the

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Speaker 1: trial where she'll have to decide whether she'll testify in

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Speaker 1: her own defense. Joining me is Bloomberg Legal reporter Joel Rosenblatt,

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Speaker 1: who's been covering the trial. During the prosecution's case, what

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Speaker 1: have jurors been learning about theorophns? What are the big takeaways?

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Speaker 1: A big take leader a number of recurring themes that

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Speaker 1: the prosecution has just kind of hammered away at One

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Speaker 1: would be former THEOS employees, including the highest level lab director,

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Speaker 1: having deep misgivings about the accuracy of fairness blood testing machines,

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Speaker 1: raising those concerns to Elizabeth Homes and eventually being pressured

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Speaker 1: to kind of find a way around the results, and eventually,

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Speaker 1: because of those misgivings, because they so deeply offended, these

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Speaker 1: employees sense of scientific integrity, you know, their integrity as scientists,

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Speaker 1: but also their own personal morality, quitting the company. Oftentimes

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Speaker 1: they're not lasting more than a year or so, but

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Speaker 1: very committed, high level, very highly educated employees, just not

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Speaker 1: wanting to stay, unable to stay. That was kind of

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Speaker 1: the first piece of what they've heard. Then the prosecution

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Speaker 1: moved into investors and how investors were misled by Elizabeth

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Speaker 1: Holmes about the accuracy, which you know from the previous

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Speaker 1: testimony that just described you knew wasn't there. And then

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Speaker 1: also the work that she was doing with pharmaceutical company.

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Speaker 1: So early on, Saranos did indeed have some contracts with

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Speaker 1: pharmaceutical companies who were interested in her blood analyzer, but

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Speaker 1: eventually they didn't see the results that they thought were

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Speaker 1: accurate enough for them to continue that relationship. What George

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Speaker 1: have seen is that in some instances Elizabeth Holmes presented

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Speaker 1: reports showing that her analyzer was was accurate, but lifting

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Speaker 1: the logos of Fiser, for example, onto this report, and

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Speaker 1: those reports were essentially falsified to show that her analyzer

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Speaker 1: was accurate, when in fact these companies walked away from

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Speaker 1: it precisely because it wasn't accurate enough. So that's a

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Speaker 1: level of just kind of fabrication, of falsification, of plagiarism

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Speaker 1: that was It's rather blatant, it's pretty shocking. The third

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Speaker 1: one is that is part of her promotion of the

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Speaker 1: analyzer to investors, she told investors and kind of the

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Speaker 1: world rather widely that her blood test analyzer was being

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Speaker 1: had been adopted by the U. S. Military, and was

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Speaker 1: being used on the battlefield in combat on Metavac helicopters.

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Speaker 1: This was proven to be not true. It was never true.

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Speaker 1: There was one small contract she had with the U. S.

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Speaker 1: Army very early on, but it was never adopted by

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Speaker 1: the military, it was never used in any way in

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Speaker 1: what she described, and this was refuted by no less

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Speaker 1: than former Secretary of Defense James Maddis, who took the stand.

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Speaker 1: So that was another example of just a blatant lie

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Speaker 1: really that she's telling investors, who also factored that heavily

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Speaker 1: in their decision to give her hundreds of millions of dollars.

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Speaker 1: So it sounds like a pretty powerful prosecution case. So far.

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Speaker 1: Was the defense able to make any inroads with these witnesses.

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Speaker 1: The inroads that they've made have been on cross examination.

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Speaker 1: In my estimation, it's it's been hard to follow. Uh.

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Speaker 1: First of all, it's difficult. It's just difficult to kind of,

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Speaker 1: I think overcome that testimony and where they are. It's

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Speaker 1: been a kind of scatter shot approach. And so now

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Speaker 1: what we've seen is long, long cross examinations that are

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Speaker 1: beginning to irritate the judge. They're irritating everyone else, including

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Speaker 1: one presumes the jury. And I think it's an effort

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Speaker 1: to draw out the trial, you know, I think the

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Speaker 1: the short answer to your question is the cross examinations

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Speaker 1: have not been particularly effective, at least as far as

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Speaker 1: I can tell. They're hard to follow. Their their scatter shot,

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Speaker 1: and they're they're long. Has there been any mention of

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Speaker 1: Sonny Belwani and his part in this, Well, Sonny is

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Speaker 1: a co conspirator, He was charged as a co conspirator.

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Speaker 1: Their trials were severed, so he's going to be tried

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Speaker 1: tried separately starting in January. And he comes up a lot.

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Speaker 1: So he's been mentioned a lot. I mean, they were,

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Speaker 1: according to the prosecution, partners in crime here. So he figures,

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Speaker 1: he figures prominently. It's a kind of careful dance prosecutors

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Speaker 1: have to do there because it's Elizabeth Holmes who's on trial,

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Speaker 1: and they've taken extraordinary efforts to show that while they

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Speaker 1: were co conspirators, that she was in charge. So for

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Speaker 1: the purposes of this trial and trying to get her conviction,

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Speaker 1: they've had to show that she was in charge. And

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Speaker 1: they've raised numerous instances elicited testimony in which former employees

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Speaker 1: or business partners said that in meetings that they both attended,

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth Holmes was really in charge. You know what the

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Speaker 1: defense is going to be. Did they say they're opening

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Speaker 1: statements what the defense would be? Well, this is the

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Speaker 1: big question war and and we're nearly at the crossroads.

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Speaker 1: The prosecution has said it will rest this week. I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure if that's going to happen. But your question

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Speaker 1: is the big question, because she indicated before the trial

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Speaker 1: that she may raise a defense pointing to Sunny Baul

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Speaker 1: Wahani as having been so uh psychologically in some instances

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Speaker 1: even physically abusive, that she was in fact controlled by him,

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Speaker 1: that her that his abuse was so so strong and

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Speaker 1: so forceful and so formative that she was essentially doing,

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Speaker 1: you know, the things she's accused of under his control.

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Speaker 1: So that has not been raised so plainly yet at trial.

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Speaker 1: Before the jury in opening arguments, her lawyer did hint

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Speaker 1: at it that that this relationship she was in a

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Speaker 1: romantic relationship with Sunny while they were both at para nose.

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Speaker 1: He was, he was the president. Lance Wade, her lawyer,

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Speaker 1: indicated in opening arguments that this relationship was one of

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Speaker 1: a number of bad choices that Elizabeth Holmes made, So

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Speaker 1: he has hinted at it. It's just not clear. We

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Speaker 1: just don't know what her defense is going to be yet.

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Speaker 1: We don't know if she's going to pursue this unprecedented

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Speaker 1: defense to a you know, a white car criminal fraud case. Right,

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Speaker 1: it is unprecedented in this kind of a case. And

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Speaker 1: then we've heard that kind of defense coming from battered

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Speaker 1: women as a self defense, usually to some kind of

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Speaker 1: criminal act, but not in this context. So has the

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Speaker 1: prosecution been anticipating it in any way? Well, yes, I

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Speaker 1: mean the short answer is yes. You can see there

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Speaker 1: have been kind of preemptive strikes. I think this, this

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Speaker 1: effort that I explained earlier to show that she was

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Speaker 1: in charge, can be seen as a preemptive strike to

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Speaker 1: this type of defense. In other words, if she's in

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Speaker 1: charge and she's running a company, not only is she

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Speaker 1: kind of superior, not only is she Sunny's superior, and

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Speaker 1: she was in fact entitled his superior as chief executive,

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Speaker 1: but she was running the show. And so the idea is,

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Speaker 1: how could she possibly be so highly functional and so

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Speaker 1: in charge and and yet at the same time being

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Speaker 1: so manipulated by Bye Sonny Bowani. The defense is a

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Speaker 1: is a real stretch because you know, essentially what they

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Speaker 1: have to prove is that she was so under his

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Speaker 1: control that she couldn't tell right from wrong. That's that's

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Speaker 1: what they have to prove. And I think that's a

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Speaker 1: real stretch. She has the benefit of Balwannie not being

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Speaker 1: in the courtroom, not being on trial with her. As

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Speaker 1: you said, his his trial was severed, so she can

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Speaker 1: say what she wants to and no one will be

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Speaker 1: able to check with him. Well, that's right, That's exactly

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Speaker 1: why the trial was severed, because Sonny Bowani made the

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Speaker 1: point that he can't possibly defend against the government's allegations

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Speaker 1: and hers at the same time. So she has yea

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Speaker 1: wide latitude and lee way to to to blame him

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Speaker 1: and point to him. She's under oath, right, so if

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Speaker 1: she testifies or whoever testifies on her behalf, she has

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Speaker 1: she does have an expert lined up as a as

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Speaker 1: a potential witness as psychological expert. You know, everybody, everybody

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Speaker 1: who's understand is sworn to tell the truth. So she

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Speaker 1: can say what she wants. But unless she's willing to

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Speaker 1: just lie under oath and risk being in contempt of court. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it has to be truthful. So she's been painted as

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Speaker 1: very charismatic. I mean, we've all seen the interviews she did.

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Speaker 1: What is she like in the courtroom? Well, in the courtroom,

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Speaker 1: you know, she hasn't had a chance to speak yet,

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Speaker 1: and again it's not clear if she's going to. Most

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Speaker 1: criminal defense players will tell you that they don't want

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Speaker 1: they don't want their defendant to understand. So so she's

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Speaker 1: she hasn't had a chance to speak even if she

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Speaker 1: wanted to. In the courtroom, she sits perfectly still. She's

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Speaker 1: dressed very well, um, not in the in the black

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Speaker 1: sweater that she wore as CEO, but generally in skirts

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Speaker 1: and dress coats and dressed very carefully conservatively, and she

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Speaker 1: sits remarkably to me, perfectly upright in her chair between

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Speaker 1: her lawyers. Her back doesn't touch the back of her chair,

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Speaker 1: and she's looking just directly at witnesses the whole time,

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Speaker 1: and on Breakes. She's very friendly. I've run into her

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Speaker 1: numerous times. She's friendly to everybody. She's with her here

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Speaker 1: with her mother every day, her partner, and I believe

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Speaker 1: husband now has oftentimes been here. So she has family

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Speaker 1: here and she's um. She seems retentive and relaxed. And

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Speaker 1: I'll just add that jury consultants I've spoken to have

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Speaker 1: said that in this case, this might be a case

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Speaker 1: where the defendant should testify, just given how dynamic she

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Speaker 1: she is and how she was as as CEO and

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Speaker 1: presumably still is al kind of nimble and intelligent and

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Speaker 1: carefully spoken she is. I've wondered one thing, she's a

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Speaker 1: new mother. Is the jury aware of that. I have

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Speaker 1: seen press accounts where um, this is kind of explained,

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Speaker 1: UM myself a father. But I haven't seen no indication

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Speaker 1: of Elizabeth Holmes showing the jury that she is a

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Speaker 1: new mother. There is no indication of that to me.

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Speaker 1: I've not seen it. I mean I've personally seen it

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Speaker 1: when the jury is out of the courtroom. In other words,

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00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 1: she appears to seems to have a nanny who's here, um,

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Speaker 1: who's visiting, and she is taking breaks periodically. Um, presumably

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Speaker 1: to either be with her child or just taking the

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Speaker 1: breaks of that a new mom needs um. But I

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Speaker 1: have not seen the jury seeing evidence of that. They

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Speaker 1: will if she takes the standard. Yeah, yeah, and I'll

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Speaker 1: add and all that that Lance Wade, her lawyers had

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Speaker 1: pointed out an opening remarks that she lives, you know,

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Speaker 1: nearby with her husband, and and he did mention her

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Speaker 1: child going to be very interesting if she testifies. Thanks

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Speaker 1: so much, Joel. That's Joel Rosen Black, Bloomberg Legal Reporter,

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Speaker 1: and that's if the edition of the Bloomberg Law Show.

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Speaker 1: Remember you can always get the latest legal news on

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Speaker 1: our Bloomberg Law podcast. You can find them on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

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Speaker 1: and at www dot Bloomberg dot com, Slash podcast, Blash

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Speaker 1: Law and John Brasso, and you're listening to Bloomberg