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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production

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Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Holly

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Speaker 1: Fry and I'm Tracy B. Wilson. Uh. We talked about

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Speaker 1: Charles chapin All Week, Get Accidental two Part Part two Accidental. Yes,

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Speaker 1: sometimes it happens. He was one that I kept trying

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Speaker 1: to pare down his story, but there's too much stuff well,

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Speaker 1: and so much of it, like so many of the

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Speaker 1: news stories that came up in the episodes. We have

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Speaker 1: episodes of the podcast on just over and over and over.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmm, yeah, I mean it's um. It's interesting because

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Speaker 1: in so many ways we talked about how bias he

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Speaker 1: could be in his coverage at times, but in so

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Speaker 1: many ways, what we know of huge historical events are

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Speaker 1: because he published them. Like I immediately when I we

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Speaker 1: were um, when we were talking about the Titanic and

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Speaker 1: I was reading the story of him getting that and

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Speaker 1: what that original press story was, like that is the

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Speaker 1: one where all of the touchstone moments that we now

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Speaker 1: come to see and that appeared in the Titanic movie,

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Speaker 1: that is where they came from, Like the story of

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Speaker 1: John Astor's wife, like refusing to go on the boats

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Speaker 1: and they were going to stay together, like the band

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Speaker 1: playing on the deck as the ship went down. That

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Speaker 1: came from that new story, Like all of those things

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Speaker 1: were in that first report that was on the docks

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Speaker 1: when the survivors were coming off of the the ship

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Speaker 1: that rescued them, which is just mind boggling. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: most of my thoughts about him are not positive because

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Speaker 1: I mean, he clearly developed an importance, monumental career. A

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Speaker 1: lot of his reporting that some of this is the

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Speaker 1: standards at the time, right journalistic standards, and are late

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Speaker 1: nineteenth early twentieth century, very different from what we expect now.

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Speaker 1: But even with that in mind, some of the stuff

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Speaker 1: he's doing is really unethical, Oh, completely super unethical. And

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Speaker 1: then he made his own financial problems. I have empathy

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Speaker 1: for the part where he made investments that fell through,

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Speaker 1: Like that's that, that's unfortunately he then he was also

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Speaker 1: buying yachts and horses and just living beyond his means.

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Speaker 1: He made a financial problem himself and then decided his

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Speaker 1: only way out of it was to murder his life.

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Speaker 1: And I'm just like, I don't like you. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: what's really interesting, um, is that one of the biographies

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Speaker 1: I read of him, which is called The Roseman of

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Speaker 1: Sing Sing, and it's quite good. Oh, it's by James McGrath.

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Speaker 1: Morris Um he mentioned that to him, to that writer one,

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Speaker 1: he's an interesting case because he also, you know, had

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Speaker 1: been a journalist, and so when he read Chapin's autobiography,

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Speaker 1: his first instinct was to fact check it, and he

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Speaker 1: was surprised by how much most of it was accurate. Um.

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Speaker 1: The main problems were things like timeline, things that are

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Speaker 1: pretty normal for someone working from memory, Like he said

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Speaker 1: he worked in one job like X number of months

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Speaker 1: and it was really a slightly different number, and things

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Speaker 1: like that. But none of the real like meat and potatoes,

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Speaker 1: was incorrect. But he mentioned it to him sort of

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Speaker 1: the greatest tragedy is we don't really have a lot

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Speaker 1: of information about Nellie. We don't know a lot about

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Speaker 1: her childhood or her youth. She seems like she was

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Speaker 1: not the least bit concerned about living a wealthy lifestyle.

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Speaker 1: When he was like it's all falling apart, She's like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's figure this out. It's gonna be fine. We'll be fine.

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Speaker 1: And Chapin, by all accounts, really was very devoted to her,

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Speaker 1: like he was very like he became a different person

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Speaker 1: around her. The people that knew him from his newsroom persona,

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Speaker 1: which was very hard nosed jerk ery, would be kind

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Speaker 1: of amazed at how gentle he was and and loving

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Speaker 1: with his wife. But I also think you see it

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Speaker 1: play out in his subsequent relationships with his pen pound romances.

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Speaker 1: He was a control freak, and Nelly never challenged that control,

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Speaker 1: and so it was easy for him to dote on her,

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Speaker 1: Whereas when he even perceived that anyone else was challenging

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Speaker 1: that control, he would fly into like a complete fit

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Speaker 1: of rage. And It's like, is that really love and devotion?

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure that's not the healthiest flavor of it. No,

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Speaker 1: he clearly also had some mental health stuff going on,

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Speaker 1: absolutely from the beginning, from the beginning, like the some

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Speaker 1: of the very earliest things that we talked about in

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Speaker 1: his life, which I'm not saying that does not excuse

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Speaker 1: then murdering his wife. I'm not saying that at all.

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying, like, clearly he had untreated stuff going on, yes, well,

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Speaker 1: and he even was pretty cognizant of the fact that

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Speaker 1: the way he ran his newsroom and the way he

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Speaker 1: was as a boss was unhealthy for everyone. Like he

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Speaker 1: kind of acknowledged that a lot of reporters died young

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Speaker 1: and that it was probably because bosses like him worked

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Speaker 1: them to the bone in incredibly stressful environments, and that

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Speaker 1: was also playing out for him. I in a lighter tone,

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Speaker 1: which is not to make light of any of this.

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Speaker 1: I kept finding myself thinking the same thing about Shapen's

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Speaker 1: world of journalism as I feel when I watched Star

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Speaker 1: Wars about people who work for the Empire, which is,

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Speaker 1: why would you want that job? But? Um, it doesn't.

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Speaker 1: But I guess if you love it, you love it, right,

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Speaker 1: Like that's and he loved it, um. One of the there's.

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Speaker 1: There are a couple of interesting things about the way

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Speaker 1: he viewed his job in news. One, he hated the

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Speaker 1: word journalism. He thought it was like to fancy. He's like,

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Speaker 1: I'm a newsman. I'm a newspaperman, that's all I am. Um.

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Speaker 1: I don't know to take that however, you will, um.

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Speaker 1: But the other thing that was interesting was that he

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Speaker 1: recognized that for most people at the time in journalism,

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Speaker 1: that job being a reporter for a paper was kind

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Speaker 1: of a stepping stone in a career to later become

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Speaker 1: a lawyer, a politician, a railroad man. Whereas to him,

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Speaker 1: he was like, no, for me, this is the destination,

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Speaker 1: like this is all I want to do. Ever, which

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Speaker 1: is interesting. He there are so many pieces that I

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Speaker 1: didn't get to include in his story as long as

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Speaker 1: it got Um. He actually did run into his father

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Speaker 1: during that brief foray where he was working as a

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Speaker 1: m a campaign manager for that Utah politician. He ran

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Speaker 1: into his father in a jewelry shop, and he never

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Speaker 1: told his family about it. Um, like just completely by accident,

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Speaker 1: he ran into him, and it was one of those

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Speaker 1: weird things. I feel like that relationship colored his opinions

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Speaker 1: and feelings about a great many things, more than he

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Speaker 1: ever really recognized. There is an interesting story that's a

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Speaker 1: little more fun about what was going on between Hearst's

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Speaker 1: papers and Pulitzer's papers when they were really like in

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Speaker 1: the thick of their competition, which is that they were

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Speaker 1: stealing stories from each other. As we mentioned, like literally

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Speaker 1: a reporter would read papers, the story from one paper,

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Speaker 1: kind of rewrite it as his own, and their paper

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Speaker 1: would publish it. And at one point Hearst. One of

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Speaker 1: his reporters, apparently under Hearst's orders, wrote this article about

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Speaker 1: an event in which they quoted a witness named Colonel

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Speaker 1: Reflip W. Sinus, And when Pulitzer's reporters regurgitated that entire thing,

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Speaker 1: then Hurst was like, that's a made up person. It's

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Speaker 1: an anagram of we pilfer the news. You're all idiots, um,

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Speaker 1: which is an interesting way to catch somebody doing that,

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Speaker 1: but shapen um. It's interesting reading his biography because he

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Speaker 1: does seem so you know, during his time in prison,

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Speaker 1: he comes off as such a gentle I don't know

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Speaker 1: if sweet is the right word, but a very gentle,

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Speaker 1: you know, like reformed person, and then you read how

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Speaker 1: quickly he got angry at Constance Nelson for having done nothing,

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Speaker 1: and he held that grudge for the rest of his life,

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Speaker 1: like he would literally, you know, he had poured his

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Speaker 1: heart out to this person and seemed so devoted and

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Speaker 1: then it was like, well, you wronged me over and

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Speaker 1: over and even later, as he had stopped really writing

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Speaker 1: her regularly, he would occasionally write her these letters that

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Speaker 1: were like you didn't even try to come and see me,

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Speaker 1: and like these weird, just poisonous. That's why I'm like,

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Speaker 1: you're a control freak. No thanks, no thanks. His prison

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Speaker 1: set up sounds um pretty lovely by many accounts, like

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Speaker 1: he was sent so much like food and groceries from

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Speaker 1: wealthy friends that he had an assistant assigned to him

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Speaker 1: to cook his own meals. Come on, now, right, Like

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Speaker 1: that's not really serving time. It doesn't seem when everybody

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Speaker 1: else is having to eat prison kitchen food. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: definitely seems like his treatment there was disparity between his

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Speaker 1: treatment and everybody else for sure. Yeah, and we should

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Speaker 1: know this is at a time when laws as a

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Speaker 1: figure at Sing Sing is interesting because he was trying

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Speaker 1: to really reform the criminal justice system and find ways

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Speaker 1: that he could give the men who were incarcerated in

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Speaker 1: his prison opportunities to like follow their desires, etcetera. In

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Speaker 1: a lot of different ways. But clearly Chapin was treated

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Speaker 1: like he was an equal to the people that were

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Speaker 1: running the place in many ways, and that he did

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Speaker 1: not have to live by the rule strange um he was.

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Speaker 1: He was allowed to bring his own clothes, he didn't

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Speaker 1: have to wear the prison uniform. Now, many many people

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Speaker 1: that were incarcerated there had that option, but most of

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Speaker 1: them did not have nice clothes to bring with them,

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Speaker 1: whereas he was, like, you know, in his tailored shirts

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Speaker 1: and ties. It's the weirdest thing. It's such a disparity

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Speaker 1: and like a weird meant old break of how it

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Speaker 1: all works. Let's get into one of those things of

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Speaker 1: like not necessarily saying Chapin should have been subjected to

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Speaker 1: the more dehumanizing thing, but now that everyone should have

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Speaker 1: had access to the less dehumanizing thing, exactly like it

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Speaker 1: just was. He was very clearly apart from the rest

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Speaker 1: of the population there and allowed to you know, said

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Speaker 1: he never did hard labor, even though that was part

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Speaker 1: of his sentence. Here's a very interesting thing. After he died,

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Speaker 1: of course, much of the press coverage of his death,

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Speaker 1: once again written by reporters in the New York Journalism

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Speaker 1: seen called out what a jerk he was, and how

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Speaker 1: hard he was to work for and how he, you know,

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Speaker 1: would fire people if someone in their family became terminally ill,

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Speaker 1: because he was like, you're not gonna be able to

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Speaker 1: do this job anymore. Get out, just really unkind horrible things.

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Speaker 1: And Constance Nelson, his second prison Romance was so upset

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Speaker 1: by this, and she's like, that's not the man I know,

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Speaker 1: even though he had been really cruel to her. At

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Speaker 1: the end, she wanted to publish all of his letters

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Speaker 1: to her as a book, and it did get picked

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Speaker 1: up and made into a book. Cooper also published a

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Speaker 1: similar book because she wanted to show what a loving

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Speaker 1: and kind person he had become. And it's like, he

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Speaker 1: was so mean to you, Why would you do this? Why? Why? However,

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Speaker 1: both of those books got published, nobody bought them, apparently.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't find a copy of either. I had hoped,

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Speaker 1: but um, neither of them did very well, and they

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Speaker 1: kind of vanished pretty quickly. Maybe nobody wanted to read

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Speaker 1: their empathy, right, I think probably that's part. It's like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I really reformed. I don't want to read his weird

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Speaker 1: romantic overtures to you. Knowing that he shot his wife

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Speaker 1: was cruel to everyone who ever worked for him. There

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Speaker 1: are lots of stories too, of journalists and reporters that

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Speaker 1: worked under him who presumed he hated them because he

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Speaker 1: was so mean all the time, and some of them

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Speaker 1: would say something along those lines of like, listen, I

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Speaker 1: know you don't like people, blah bla, and he would

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Speaker 1: be like, what are you talking about it? You're one

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Speaker 1: of my favorites. And it's like, are you just that

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Speaker 1: broken that you don't know how to treat people well?

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Speaker 1: Or are you playing with them? And we don't know

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Speaker 1: the answer to that. Humans are complex. Yeah. Um, again,

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Speaker 1: not the job for me, No, no. Uh. There is

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Speaker 1: one more funny story, which is that one of his

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Speaker 1: reporters got a very strange flavor of revenge because this

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Speaker 1: reporter was also writing pulp fiction on the side to

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Speaker 1: make extra money, and in one of their books, they

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Speaker 1: named a poison after him, called Shape a Night. That's

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Speaker 1: great and I'm like, that seems well deserved. All right,

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Speaker 1: that's Charles Chapin. Maybe later we can do Charles V.

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Speaker 1: Chape and the doctor who tried to make people not

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Speaker 1: get exposed to as many germs and microbes, and that

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Speaker 1: will feel like a bomb. The person you are actually

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Speaker 1: going to find information on when you found this, he's

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Speaker 1: still on the list. Listen. This is a good on

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Speaker 1: ramp for our Halloween coverage. It's a little darker. We'll

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Speaker 1: have Halloween fun in the coming weeks, and then then

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Speaker 1: we'll get back to all of these people in the meantime.

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Speaker 1: If this is your time off in the next coming days,

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Speaker 1: I hope that it is absolutely wonderful and relaxing and

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Speaker 1: not fraught in the least, and maybe you have roses

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Speaker 1: without any baggage to enjoy. Um. If you do not

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Speaker 1: have time off, I hope that you still get to

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Speaker 1: enjoy some some things and maybe some quiet time to yourself. Uh.

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Speaker 1: We will be right back here again tomorrow with a

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Speaker 1: Saturday Classic, and then on Monday there will be more

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Speaker 1: new episodes. Stuff you missed in History Class is a

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Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from I

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Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. H m

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Speaker 1: hm