WEBVTT - Chat with Heroes 0:00:02.040 --> 0:00:05.080 Hey, yo, you're listening to Waiting on Reparations, a production 0:00:05.120 --> 0:00:09.040 of my heart radio step Tortia, And I'll take a 0:00:09.039 --> 0:00:11.080 step backwards because I don't fight my hate this and 0:00:11.160 --> 0:00:12.880 what the fucking hat? So all I ask them to 0:00:12.880 --> 0:00:15.320 look past it and be mature of that. I'm passive, 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:17.239 but that don't mean that I'm a fucking cat boy 0:00:17.320 --> 0:00:20.040 like Martin Luther Mahatma Gandhi. I use my words to 0:00:20.040 --> 0:00:22.320 settle my conflicts rather than try to shoot you up 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:24.599 in cool bruts, rather stand beside you them, invite you, 0:00:24.720 --> 0:00:27.200 and a rather understanding than that never happened tried to 0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:34.120 all Right, this week, I am so enthused and honored 0:00:34.120 --> 0:00:38.800 frankly to be joined by my comrade, my colleague, my mentor. 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:43.400 I don't know, Travis Williams. Uh, Travis, I don't even 0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:46.760 know how to properly introduce you, because you have such 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:51.320 a range of expertises and experiences, So telling people a 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:55.680 little bit about yourself. Who are you? Um? A black 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:59.880 man vegan Uh originally from for a lot of deal Florida. 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:02.760 Uh It's tough when I say originally, right, So I'm 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:04.880 from a lot of Florida, but I was born so 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:07.800 maybe that's my origin story. But I considered the origin 0:01:07.840 --> 0:01:12.520 story wherever, like your most uh meaningful roots were set right. 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:15.560 But I was born in Atlanta, Georgia. Did my undergraduate 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:18.960 work at d Florida Agriculture and Mechanical University, home of 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:24.120 the mighty Ratler's Orange Green eight seven October three. I 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:26.280 love my HBCU, you know what I mean, check it 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:30.640 out orangr green. Um and then oh yeah, you know 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:33.119 I always rap. And you know my high school colors 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:37.119 was orange green as well because our first football coach 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:40.880 it's also a Wraptler. So um. And I went to 0:01:40.920 --> 0:01:44.240 this high school called Lanchile High School, which was one 0:01:44.280 --> 0:01:48.280 of the two biggest black high schools in Broward County. 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:51.000 And you know, browartt is the most black, most Democrat county, 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:54.200 or was when I was growing up in all of 0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:58.640 the state of Florida. And Miss Elie fought real hard 0:01:58.720 --> 0:02:00.440 to make sure that a little black is like me. 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:04.080 He educated and her home is now a museum. It's 0:02:04.120 --> 0:02:06.960 about maybe a two minute walk from my grandfather's house. 0:02:06.960 --> 0:02:10.200 So uh he passed away, but his old house and 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:13.840 so um, so yeah that is that. I did my 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:17.120 legal studies at the University of Georgia. UM was a 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:20.519 public defender for a long time, had a had an 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:26.160 epic mental breakdown, uh myself epic, Hey, if I'm gonna 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:30.760 do it, it's gonna be happy. If we're gonna break down, down, 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:35.799 do it, break everything, break all the windows, and so 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:41.880 uh found myself homeless and and and really uh really 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:46.840 really suffering and in painful about two plus years. And 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:52.640 then the last six years five years, I've been um 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:59.320 uh began reinvesting uh in in community and community organized 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:03.640 and I've been organizing work since I was fifteens, you know, 0:03:04.320 --> 0:03:08.280 and so uh so over the last uh five and 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:12.040 a half so six years, been been back doing that. 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:15.919 And I've been fortunate enough to you know, have been 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:19.400 invited to be at all all these different universities and 0:03:19.480 --> 0:03:25.119 going these different things and so um uh so it's 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:28.800 it's not unfamiliar. And then like so now I do 0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:34.760 a lot of community education and political education um at 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:40.960 a grassroots level aimed at uh mobilizing people, assisting them 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:46.080 and organizing for political action. And so I also do 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:49.360 work out of out earn this little ministry at at 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:54.240 a little medium sized church. Uh. And my church is 0:03:54.320 --> 0:04:01.160 coven to Presbyterium ministry is the uh uh neighborhood ministries, 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:04.360 which is it doesn't just two words that don't make 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:08.160 sense until you know it is we're doing. And so 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:11.400 it's helping people stay house, defeating people. I'm sitting in 0:04:11.440 --> 0:04:14.640 the I'm sitting in the fellowship haul down. This is 0:04:14.680 --> 0:04:17.520 where we were in the food pantry or clothing closet. 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:21.440 We're moving things out of here is the uh trying 0:04:21.440 --> 0:04:26.719 to figure out a different model. But um also uh 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:32.640 minister and manager but neevolence accounts. So helping people where 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:36.920 they can and using uh Jesus ministry with the poor 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:42.680 to God our efforts to assist people. I noticed, and 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:45.160 all of that, you somehow managed to not bring up 0:04:45.279 --> 0:04:49.120 hip hop at all? Do you have relationship to hip hop? 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:52.039 All this dope ship, all this other dope ship is 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:54.240 so dope that it's not even worth bringing up that. 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:57.560 Not even bringing up that your south far you are 0:04:57.600 --> 0:05:03.360 a penman. Well, you know something, I had some records 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:06.719 that at one time, uh you know, had had some 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:08.440 little had some little heat to it. But I I 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:10.359 just I love I do love hip hop. But you 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:13.600 know what, though I really don't listen to hip hop 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:17.600 anymore and and it definitely not like sometimes I get 0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:21.479 nostalgic and and don't get me wrong, Race the five 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:25.760 nine even now, like the way he puts together a sentence, 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:30.200 his art right, and I appreciate the art um and 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:34.080 I listened here there you know, uh fly God is 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:37.039 an awesome god. West side gun you know what I mean? 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:41.880 Like you know, pray for Paris? Uh you know? Um 0:05:42.160 --> 0:05:45.279 uh what what are you called? Kama Kaze? Like I 0:05:45.400 --> 0:05:49.120 listened to. I still listen to some sometimes, but you know, 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:52.160 it's it's tough, man, It's tough to listen to it 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:55.599 some of the music. Like you know, I don't know, 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:58.599 I feel like we I think you and I have 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:00.960 talked about this before. I think hip hop, I think 0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:04.760 any art form right has to have gate keepers. Right, 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:09.640 has to have people that make people do the work 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:12.320 to get good at something right. And hip hop has 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:14.599 the least amount of gate keepers, but it used to 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:17.840 have the most. Right. It was you had to run through, 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:20.400 like when I was a kid trying to learn how 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:22.680 to wrap, you know what I mean, Like I had 0:06:22.720 --> 0:06:25.200 to figure out how to wrap, and then I had 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:27.080 to be brave enough to wrap on the school bus 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:29.120 and then if you heard I could wrap it, and 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:31.360 it was like you gotta wrap against this other guy 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:33.400 who can crap. And then I'll go, you know what 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:35.240 I mean, I'll be rapping at the crackhouse with some 0:06:35.400 --> 0:06:38.360 with some dope and rappers about stuff and then binge 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:41.360 and it's like all of this stuff you get good at, 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:43.640 you know what I mean, And now you don't gotta like, 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:45.479 you don't gotta put in the work, you don't gotta 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:49.240 do nothing. You just so you never really get better, 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:52.159 you never really master the crap, you see what I'm saying. 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:55.000 And so it's it's tough for me to listen to 0:06:55.120 --> 0:06:59.080 somebody who ain't even investing in mastering the crack. So 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:02.000 it is come from a place of craftsmanship and not 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:05.840 necessarily like from a place as an organizer, and that's 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:09.840 someone that is pushing back against systems of capital and 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:13.640 of racial capital, etcetera. Like the way that that is 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:18.240 all uh then shaping the genre and what ends up 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:20.520 floating up to the surface is what we then consider 0:07:20.560 --> 0:07:23.400 a mainstream. Does that adds? Does that at all influence 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:28.320 like your how how you partaking hip hop? Commarly the 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:31.720 craftsmanship thing let's think about what an album is. Right, 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:38.080 an album is forty five to our some change the 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:41.800 hell album you're listening to. That's an hour long album. 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:45.880 Come on now, come on now. I was reading recently 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:48.200 that the like the top the last ten years, like 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:51.040 the top albums of the year in hip hop for all, 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:53.480 like thirty minutes long. But that's weak, and you know 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:59.720 I hate that. No, think about think about right, Okay, 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:06.320 by Outcast undisputably an incredible record, right, undisputable? Right? So climen, Now, 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:08.200 what did they take them to three years to make 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:13.320 that record? Let me see uh uh Southern player lists 0:08:13.360 --> 0:08:17.000 that came out ninety three or ninety four, maybe ninety five, 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:20.800 I can't remember. Two years later you had uh, you 0:08:20.880 --> 0:08:23.680 had a Tiens, and then maybe two or three years 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:26.040 later you had incuntically right, And so in then two 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:28.720 year time period, right. I heard nas want to say 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:31.160 this in a in a source article like maybe the 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:34.160 late nineties. He said that first album is the easiest 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:36.800 because it took you eighteen years, right for twenty two years, 0:08:36.920 --> 0:08:38.800 right to have Old You were right. It's those the 0:08:38.840 --> 0:08:41.160 hard albums the next one because you don't have as 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:43.920 much time to write end the precious change. The choice 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:47.600 structure is different in center, structures different. Right, So when 0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:51.520 when I look at like what an album is an album? 0:08:51.559 --> 0:08:55.120 Generally people write songs about the highlights of their life, right, 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:58.480 Like each song is a highlight on an amalgamation of highlights. 0:08:58.520 --> 0:09:01.120 So if you look at Marvin Gaye, I Want You 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:04.319 right the record I want you incredible records, it's all 0:09:04.360 --> 0:09:08.760 about being in love and expressing that love intimately sexually right, 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:13.400 beautiful record beautiful. But these are all highlights sexual experiences. 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:15.480 These aren't the ones that he had with This ain't 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:18.160 like the random Thursday when he just got off work 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:22.640 and brought home. This ain't the one lady got woke 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:24.439 up because the baby woke up, you know what I mean. 0:09:26.080 --> 0:09:29.360 It's just the highlights, right, So I expect someone to 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:33.400 to offer their highlights, But um what what used to 0:09:33.440 --> 0:09:36.280 be the highlights in hip hop music? Used to be 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:44.000 the highlights of like liberation, right, and liberation rejecting restrictions, right, 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:51.120 and then now the highlights are I don't know, transactional monetary. 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:53.880 It's like I can't I can't handle that, right, Like 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:57.640 it's just too much. Yeah, and I feel like it's 0:09:57.679 --> 0:09:59.520 it's like, oh, we go out, we party every night, 0:09:59.800 --> 0:10:02.400 every night we have it's not it isn't the highlights 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:06.319 because it's like this always chasing panicle. This is my 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:09.040 life and we live like this like I ain't slept 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:13.000 the dates. What's up? Yeah, I'm gonna die, Like help 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:18.800 me please literally literally something something's cats be losting cats 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:22.280 listen cats out here for real. But it's because it's yeah, 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:25.120 you know, and I think that makes it that makes 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:28.040 it tough because you can't be You're not gonna sit 0:10:28.120 --> 0:10:30.920 there and read some Carter Guard and be listening to 0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:34.680 uh do somebody, you know what I mean, why not? 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:37.840 Because it's just it's just taking me out of my space, yo, 0:10:37.920 --> 0:10:40.120 Like you know what I mean. I mean, I feel 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:41.920 like something that draws me to hip hop is that 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:44.199 it is like it's like putting together a puzzle or no, 0:10:44.280 --> 0:10:46.560 it's like an impression. It's like an impressionist painting, right, 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:50.960 So like you start off up really up close and 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:53.480 you see all of the very the lines that are 0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:56.400 you're not really seeing the full picture or whatever. You know, 0:10:56.480 --> 0:10:58.240 you put it on in the background and it's just 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:00.720 like noise and even if you enjoy or the noise, 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:04.800 the cadence is good, whatever, you know, it's this is 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:08.000 the ambience and then what time, Well, what I ideally 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:09.920 seek out is that with time you sort of like, 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:12.600 oh I got that metaphor, Oh I just picked up 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:17.840 on that punchline. Oh that's hilarious. How you know this analogy, etcetera, etcetera. 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:21.240 So I'm just saying you could potentially there's probably people 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:25.040 that do for you. However, maybe take you out of 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:26.920 it a little bit just because of the artistry. The 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:29.320 artistry isn't there for you for some of this because 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:31.440 some of these cats. You know, I used to hate 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:33.600 those punch line rappers, you know what I mean, because 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:36.840 it was just sorry and easy, yo. Like, for the 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:41.280 most part, most rappers aren't gonna aren't producing records that 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:45.880 you can that that can like suffice throughout different modes 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:49.959 of a day, week, year, or life term. Right every 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:52.080 now and again, some are and maybe you can put 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:55.719 it together over the course of like a discography, right, 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:58.559 Like I always say, Jada kiss Has is one of 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:01.640 the few rappers that had bars that you can build 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:04.920 their life off of. Right, Like, you can tell your 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:07.760 kid to listen to this and they'll know how to 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:11.640 live as a human, right, Uh, everybody's a snake, So 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:13.360 I gotta keep the grass cut so I see him 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:15.800 when they come, and then I heat they up, right, 0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:18.839 Like that's an incredible record, like be on your p's 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:21.640 and ques, you know what I mean. Like he has 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:24.520 those kind of bars. But for the most part, most 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:26.640 of these guys, it just it's the highlights and it's 0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:28.560 just too much. And then and then and then the 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:31.760 young ladies. They're just talking too much, too much wild stuff. 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:33.960 I took some vows about four years ago. You know 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:35.360 what I mean. I don't I don't need all that 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:37.640 sexual energy in my life. I don't leave that life, 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:40.040 you know what I mean, Like all that I'm going 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:42.200 to the club, you know what I mean. I don't drink. 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:44.080 I wake up at four thirty. I'm vegan. I drink 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:46.240 board and tea. Like I want to listen to something 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:48.520 that kind of is consistent with my lifestyle. Now, I'm 0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:51.559 not being real if I'm listening to this. And he 0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:58.280 taught me to be real. Yes, yes, And so you 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:00.520 may not be listening to like post work while you 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:03.000 read Perfect Guard, But what are you listening to while 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:07.040 you read what the soundtrack, what's your soundtracking? What's your 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:11.800 reading list right now? Um? Okay? So uh shout out 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:16.520 to the homie Paul Uh. He came to a session, 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:20.000 to a two part workshop I was doing with represent 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:24.440 Georgia and Black there was I was on. We was 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:25.960 like it was like a little date night, like, oh, 0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:28.439 let's put it on, like, oh, let's watch Travis. He 0:13:28.559 --> 0:13:32.120 was sitting on the couching and popcorn. Yeah, but he 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:33.959 was on. He was in the chat asking yea, he 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:38.240 was actually in the chat saying the chat being mad nerdy, 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:41.240 asking questions about super nerdy. But it was a good question. 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:42.840 It was a dope question, you know what I mean. 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:46.000 But but like, so I'm coming fresh off of that. 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:48.800 We finished it last night, So coming fresh off of that. 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:51.920 Like most of my reading, it's been about that. And Um, 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:54.720 I put together these little playlists and you know, they've 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:57.719 been sending the playlist out, people been subscribing to it. 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:01.360 That's cool, But it's mostly old school because that's mostly 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:04.600 what I listened to. So I think, UM, Curtis by 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:09.120 Curtis Mayfield. I've been bumping pretty pretty hard lately. UM 0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:13.800 Abbey Row by the Beatles. I've been bumping real hard lately. Um, 0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:19.800 let me see, Uh you know I Want You by 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:25.400 by Marvin Gaye. Um. And then Otis Ready has a 0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:29.240 song on the Soul album called Cigarettes and Coffee because 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:31.400 he remember on them old school songs and old black 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:33.680 dudes and them old songs. Was really funny because they 0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:36.920 will always tell you what time of data song was 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:43.280 supposed to represent. It's early in the morning. The son yeah, yeah, 0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:49.960 I don't work telling you where they're like what time 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:56.480 it is. I don't know why that careful. Leslie's white 0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:58.560 folks know like, oh, he's gonna be at the He's 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:04.280 gonna be at the arena. Why it's so relevant to 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:07.960 how they construct songs, But it always was like it's 0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:10.880 just like when you're listen to Stevie, right, Like Stevie 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:15.240 songs in the Key of Life, inter visions, incredible records, 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:17.160 and to me, all of this is hip hop. Like 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:19.400 that's the beautiful thing about hip hop because name name 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:21.400 name one of the artists that I mentioned that ain't 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:23.760 been sampled by a classic himpop record, you know what 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:27.520 I mean, galling whoever? Right, But when you listen to Stevie, 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:32.440 Stevie is always for a blind man. Is always referencing uh, 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:38.120 the seasons and particularly season change, right, which is interesting 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:41.000 because what he observes as a song right where he 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:43.760 communicates us through his through his lyrics, it's like he 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:46.280 can see it. He's not talking about like the smell 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:50.240 of autumn. He's always talking about something you would have 0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:53.440 had to visually see, right, Like it's wild man when 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:57.200 you think about what he's saying. But so in in 0:15:57.480 --> 0:16:01.000 uh in preparing for that, uh and doing you know what, 0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:04.760 I will share a book list that I did with them, 0:16:05.520 --> 0:16:08.840 and this was pretty dope stuff. So that so the 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:12.040 session was about power, right, So um, it was kind 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:13.480 of what do you want to get into that if 0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:14.920 you want to talk to us a little bit about 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:20.200 what you presented on Yeah, yeah, it was. It was 0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:23.560 a session about power, which was kind of an offshoot 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:27.240 of a conversation I was having with the with the 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:31.800 Freedom Riders over at um Ebony's a Baptist, uh and 0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:34.680 maybe two months ago so I was covering with them 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:38.640 the Forms of Power by Thomas C. Wardenburg. Uh. This 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:42.880 is an incredible record. Uh. Michelle o'cock discipline and punish 0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:47.760 always uh, you know, very deeply influential in the abolitionist movement. 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:50.240 You and I are always talking going over that. The 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:54.240 Struggle for Recognition by Alex Haunter actual hanted. Um. And 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:56.920 you know I'm always busting up neo liberalism Undoing the 0:16:56.960 --> 0:17:01.480 Demos by Wendy Brown. No book captures it better really 0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:05.919 just the description of the ethos of neoliberalism. Uh. The 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:10.200 ethics of identity by Farming Anthony of Pie. Uh. There's 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:15.639 some scholars doing some like critical thinking on identity. This guy, 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:19.080 I think it takes the most comprehensive approach. Maybe not 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:23.520 the most critical in every way. Maybe it's said whatever. Uh. 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:26.320 And then um also was covering with them the Unpolitics 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:31.679 of air Pollution by Matthew Crinson. Uh. And so the 0:17:31.760 --> 0:17:34.520 Unpolitics and air pollution is this case study that was 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:37.159 public what covers a time from the seventies. Don't want 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:39.600 to say it was published like in the late seven Um, 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:42.120 it was a relatively hard to find book, I mean 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:47.560 not really just made it and so it Uh. The 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:51.920 case study is, uh, Samon's how the City of East 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:54.919 Chicago versus Gary, Indiana. I don't know if ever been 0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:57.239 a Gary shout out to my dolts. Pretty years. By 0:17:57.320 --> 0:18:03.200 the way, by the way, Alfredo, look at Alfredo, ain't 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:06.560 playing look at me, Look at me. Alfredo was on 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:08.680 point and shout out to Freddy Gibbs. And so the 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:12.760 Unpolitics and air Pollution covers how Gary versus how each 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:17.800 Chicago handle the air pollution issue in the early seventies, right, 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:21.040 and and what it what? What this book really teaches us, 0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:23.879 which is become like such a such a key element 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:28.200 to how I approach, how I approach The most important 0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:31.280 elements to to talk to others about from an educator 0:18:31.680 --> 0:18:36.080 as an educator is uh, start a fight, right, don't 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:38.720 affoid a fight. Don't let these people get away with 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:42.199 not putting a fist up against you. Make it, make it, 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:47.320 make a real fight, call questions to to call things out, 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:49.680 like really make a fight, because people are gonna always 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:51.560 try to dodge stuff, you know what I mean. It's 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:54.639 just like you know that commission you said on it's something, 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:56.760 it's some wild stuff was happening and at other meaning 0:18:56.800 --> 0:18:59.560 when it was passing at that field to when y'all 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:03.760 was passing, uh, the approval for the homeless encampment, that 0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:06.320 was some wild stuff. People were saying, right, but they 0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:08.760 also was avoiding getting to the heart of the question, 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:10.720 which is you know, I wasn't going there to make 0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:12.840 no comment. Is just I'm listening to three hours of 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:17.879 people saying crazy, why stuff homeless people, lady and nearish 0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:20.480 and more contacts for the listeners. I may not have 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:24.400 brought this up in an episode recently um or got 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:27.040 into detail on this, but in Athens we recently improved 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:32.879 approved uh uh, going about coming up with a strategic 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:36.679 plan for homelessness, you know, from starting with having a 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:40.120 station in Camper for people who were experience and criminalizations 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:42.399 for living outside actually have a place where they can go, 0:19:42.680 --> 0:19:46.200 also as a hub for services, um etcetera. But also 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:47.960 you know, working all the way through, how do we 0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:49.959 how do we want to build out our permanent support 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:52.919 of housing in Athens, etcetera, so that you know, we 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:55.280 address the actual issue, the fact that people ain't got 0:19:55.280 --> 0:19:58.159 no place to live and not the quote unquote. And 0:19:58.200 --> 0:19:59.760 the thing is, the thing is that was coming that's 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:02.320 come to of that meeting was that people were receiving 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:06.280 homeless people as homeless people as the problem and not 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:11.920 it's not. It's yeah, now that they were the product 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:15.840 of the actual problem, which is capitalism. But you know 0:20:16.240 --> 0:20:19.800 that housing is not a human righting, you know, And 0:20:19.960 --> 0:20:22.600 and I think, like that's that's the crazy thing, like 0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:26.959 making making a fight happen. Right, So so, um, those 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:29.280 books I have been spending a lot of time with 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:31.600 but on a normal yeall read you know, anywhere from 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:34.640 seventy five to eighty something books this year. I'm trying 0:20:34.640 --> 0:20:36.600 to aid a hundred, but I don't know if I 0:20:36.760 --> 0:20:40.040 really hit a hundred, but um, you know, I give 0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:42.920 it a shot. Oh yeah, you're slacking. You're not gonna 0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:45.920 hit a hundred. I'm ashamed to you now that into 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:49.040 our conversation, Travis, I'm embarrassed by you for not reading 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:51.520 a hundred books. You're only gonna read eighty in the year. 0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:56.240 I mean, but know you my main thing is like, 0:20:56.359 --> 0:20:59.000 am I using my time efficiently? Right? Like? Am I 0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:01.600 am I being effect it with my time? Is? And um, 0:21:02.240 --> 0:21:04.720 you know we gotta have downtime or whatever. But like 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:09.720 I've dedicated my life to service and it's it's uh, 0:21:09.800 --> 0:21:13.240 it is. It is deeply meaningful to me. And I 0:21:13.320 --> 0:21:16.920 have clear boundaries, so I don't need as much time 0:21:17.000 --> 0:21:19.439 is even some time, I think, but you know, I 0:21:19.480 --> 0:21:22.120 play outside. It's a couple of things I think humans need, right. 0:21:22.160 --> 0:21:24.920 One of those is recreation, right, and I think you 0:21:24.920 --> 0:21:29.399 should play outside every day, right, Um. And physicality helps 0:21:29.400 --> 0:21:33.280 me distress, right, not necessarily like cardio or lifting or 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:36.960 anything in particular, but physicality helps me distress. And so 0:21:37.040 --> 0:21:39.879 that's that's usually how I how I take on recreation, 0:21:39.960 --> 0:21:42.639 whether that's bike, whether that's walking, whether that's jogging with 0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:46.600 the sprint, whether that's whatever. And uh, you know, you know, 0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:52.240 people need uh meaningful vocation. I'm always engaged in meaningful vocation. Uh. 0:21:52.280 --> 0:21:55.240 People need education. I try to These are different things 0:21:55.240 --> 0:21:58.200 I try to do every day, and over the course 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:00.600 of the day it gets pretty full. So with things 0:22:00.680 --> 0:22:05.000 being sometimes, uh, if I reades a day, I should 0:22:05.040 --> 0:22:06.520 be able to tackle a hundred books, do you know 0:22:06.560 --> 0:22:10.639 what I mean? Seventy five is like normal, right? Um? 0:22:10.720 --> 0:22:13.440 And and I just uh, it's a it's a lot 0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:16.840 that I wonder about about justice, like you know, Kenna 0:22:16.920 --> 0:22:20.320 d A B progressive could restorative justice of a word? 0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:24.399 Am I being ridiculous about abolition? Right? And that and 0:22:24.440 --> 0:22:28.080 that requires a lot of feeding myself with information and 0:22:28.280 --> 0:22:30.560 trying to think through what else do you think is 0:22:30.920 --> 0:22:32.920 like so with regards, so you got into a little 0:22:32.920 --> 0:22:36.600 bit of like talking about the elements of a good life, 0:22:36.840 --> 0:22:41.280 good vocation, opportunity to simulate the mind, etcetera. So how 0:22:41.400 --> 0:22:45.879 much of I'm really interested because you also operate this ministry, um, 0:22:45.920 --> 0:22:48.800 so how much of like, how do you see like 0:22:49.040 --> 0:22:52.640 provision of those of those both material like the basis 0:22:52.680 --> 0:22:56.359 people need and creation of his opportunities for for people 0:22:56.400 --> 0:23:00.720 to thrive as a part of the organizing needs to 0:23:00.720 --> 0:23:03.359 happen in order for us to push for power. Well, 0:23:03.520 --> 0:23:05.879