WEBVTT - Dion 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:12.160 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left That's Podcast. 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:16.400 My guest today is truly alleged the one and only 0:00:16.760 --> 0:00:21.400 Di diabb. It's a pleasure to be with you. Good 0:00:21.440 --> 0:00:25.720 to be here. Okay, you just put out to Christmas singles. 0:00:25.720 --> 0:00:30.960 What's the story without? Well, uh, the first one I 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:35.159 wrote was, you know, it's Christmas and Uh. I was 0:00:35.200 --> 0:00:37.000 sitting around with a couple of friends of mine and 0:00:37.040 --> 0:00:43.360 we were saying, the world could really use a shot 0:00:43.760 --> 0:00:50.360 of some love and harmony and transcendence and and uh 0:00:50.640 --> 0:00:54.800 peace and serenity or some togetherness. You know, we were 0:00:54.880 --> 0:00:58.120 just I said, you know, I said, Christmas is the 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:02.600 grace that uh changed my life. So I'm gonna write 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:05.880 a Christmas song. So I thought, now, what does the 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:08.319 blues man do or a rock and roller do when 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:11.400 he when he writes a Christmas song? You know that 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:14.880 there's a there's a a bragging tradition. You know, I'm 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:16.480 from the Bronx. I was like, you know that, like 0:01:16.520 --> 0:01:19.600 the Wanderer. You know, it's like a bragging tradition. So 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:23.920 I wrote a song about a guy that bought his 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:28.720 girlfriend a perfect present and he can't wait for her 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:31.200 to open it because he's he can't wait to see 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:33.360 the look on her face, you know, he you know, 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:36.800 and that happens only once every twenty years. You get 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:40.040 the perfect gift. So that's what the song is about. 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:44.800 So and then when Joe Bonamasa heard it, he said, Dion, man, 0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:48.760 you are prolific. You just keep cranking him out. I 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:51.480 want to play on this. So he joined me and 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:55.640 we we made a little video and uh and uh. 0:01:55.680 --> 0:01:58.080 I did the song with a few friends of mine 0:01:58.240 --> 0:01:59.920 and it was just a lot of fun to do. 0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:04.640 You know. The second song again, I I just thought, 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:08.200 you know, we need something to bring us together, you know, 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:12.040 and Christmas is my favorite holiday. I just I don't 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:16.040 know something about you know, it's it's a life is 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:19.520 about giving, and that's what Christmas is about, you know. 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:22.359 And I try to keep the spirit lady around. It's 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:27.360 the spirit of true charity, you know, like just giving 0:02:27.440 --> 0:02:32.920 with it, uh you know. Uh. So we I put 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:38.400 this song together and welcoming Christmas and sharing it with 0:02:38.400 --> 0:02:42.120 with people, and when I finished it, I just thought 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:47.960 of Amy Grant. I've known Amy Grant uh uh since 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:50.520 she was nineteen years old. I when I met her 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:53.000 when she was nineteen fell in love with a voice. 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:56.760 She had this song El Shadai and my Father's Eyes, 0:02:57.000 --> 0:03:00.120 and so we've been friends all these years. I I 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:02.440 just called her up. I said, Amy, I have a song. 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:05.080 And she heard it and she said, Dion, I love 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:07.720 this type of thing where you don't plan. It's just 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:11.040 in the flow, you know. And she says, yeah, I'll 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:14.360 do it. So she smiled through it and knocked it 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:18.600 out and just just she made it something sublime. I 0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:21.080 thought it was good when I finished it, but she 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:23.760 really It shows you how limited I am. You know, 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:28.320 when when uh, when an artist, any artists, you get 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:33.160 somebody that distinctive like Joe Bonamassa or Amy Grant. They 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:39.000 they they just infuse, uh anyway attract that I did 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:45.040 with such wonder They make it sublime. So how do 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:50.800 you know Joe Bonamassa, Joe, Uh, it's crazy. His manager 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:55.880 must live about. He's in walking distance from me. His manager, 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:59.080 Roy Weisman. And I was walking one day around the 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:03.400 lake and I met Roy Weisman and we became friends. 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:06.440 I have a lake in my neighborhood here. It's like 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:10.080 a mile and two point too, you know, So we 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:15.440 walk around and uh, we have some great conversations. Uh 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:17.800 and uh, he says, Joe is coming into town. And 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:21.960 Joe comes over the house, you know, and uh, he's 0:04:22.040 --> 0:04:26.839 just a a regular guy, likes to pick up my guitars. 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:30.720 We like to talk about the blues and the and 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:34.880 the history of what we're doing and the roots of it. 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:39.120 And we we have a we resonate, you know, with 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:43.640 the same artists. A lot of what connects what we're doing, 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:46.960 you know, from the thirties and forties, and you know 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:50.640 American roots music and this album. You know, we're in 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:53.560 covid era. So how did you actually do the recording? 0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:55.920 Everybody recorded in their own space, and then you put 0:04:56.000 --> 0:05:00.120 it together. You know, I put this album together. It 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:04.159 was complete. It seemed like the day I finished it, 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:08.679 we went and shut down. I think, like somewhere in March, 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:11.720 I had this is this is the album, not the 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:15.719 Christmas tracks, the album with all original and all these 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:19.800 special stars. Absolutely. Yeah, it's called Blues with Friends and 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:25.760 I have I tell you, it's crazy, Bob. I know, 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:29.760 we started out talking about the Christmas songs, but I 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:33.760 went in I had these fourteen songs that I had 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:37.039 accumulated over a few years because I was working on 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:40.320 a play and I never went into the studio. But 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:42.159 I had some time. I thought, let me go in 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:47.600 and cut these things. So I go into the studio. 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:51.800 I knocked the fourteen songs out in two days, just 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:54.919 me and my guitar. Well, now is this a studio 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:57.880 in your house or use a local studio? Would you use? Uh? 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:00.599 A friend of mine has a studio. Right time I 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:03.719 say a studio, it's a room in his house. He 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:07.760 has a he has all the equipment, high tech equipment. 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:12.280 I sat on a folding chat, took my guitar. He says, 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:14.919 sing them like you sing them in your house. I 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:19.240 took the guitar out, I went through all the I 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:23.039 went through about eight songs the first day. Uh. And 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:26.560 the second day I came back, I knocked out about 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:32.280 six of them. So I started, uh, you know, brought 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:38.800 in a bass player, drummer, keyboard, you know rhads. I 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:43.760 love roads. Yeah, I just love that. So so I 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:46.320 I built up some tracks and then I had something. 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:50.640 I said, Man, these things are great, this is something special. 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:54.360 I really felt it was. You know, I know how 0:06:54.360 --> 0:06:56.479 to write a song, I know how to make a record. 0:06:56.920 --> 0:07:01.920 But then this started this. This uh something I've I've 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:06.600 never experienced before. Again, Joe Bonamassa started it. I think 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:09.080 he's the catalyst. I think it's fair to say that. 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:11.440 You know, he gave me the vision for it because 0:07:11.520 --> 0:07:15.760 he heard blues coming on one of the songs on 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:20.560 the Blues with Friends album and he he heard it 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:23.800 and he said, Diane, I gotta play on this. He's so, 0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:27.000 I said, be my guest man. You know, Joe Bonamassa. 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:32.760 This guy's mesmerizing, masterful, you know, monster guitarists. I said, yeah, 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:36.160 I never knew what he Listen, Bob, this this is 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:39.120 the This is the thing about this. It's like I 0:07:39.200 --> 0:07:42.000 usually get a guitar player to come into the studio 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:44.320 and you go, yeah, give me this, give me that, 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:46.880 and he plays, you know, and and he fills the 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:51.320 track in. But you when you ask an artist, you 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:54.800 don't know what they're hearing, what they're they're very distinctive. 0:07:54.880 --> 0:07:59.080 It's like they come up with something that's not even 0:07:59.120 --> 0:08:02.520 on your radar. So he picked he picked up a 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:06.400 slide guitar. I mean, you know, he started playing slide 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:10.920 on it, and which I didn't hear. I really didn't 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:15.560 hear slide on it. But when he started playing, what 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:19.240 I was hearing was almost like a horn section, like 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:22.280 you you could hear and his playing. You think you're 0:08:22.320 --> 0:08:27.800 you're listening to the Apollo Theater band with with headed 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:33.200 by Miles Davis and John Coltrane with King Curtis, you know, 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:36.720 on the side. But because he's playing this stuff and 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:42.680 it's yeah, it's just crazy good. You know, it's fascinating 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:47.319 what he did. So, uh, I'm listening to this thing 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:51.240 in my house, I'm thinking, what, uh this this is 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:55.280 something really special. I mean, I thought the song was good, 0:08:56.120 --> 0:08:59.520 just the record I'm trying to make, but he made 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:02.720 it something spec It's like you go to the Olympics 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:05.960 to jump nineteen feet at the pole vault and I 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:08.520 don't know, some wind takes you three ft and you 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:11.360 break the world record. You know. So that's the way 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:17.640 it felt. So I then as I started listening to 0:09:17.679 --> 0:09:21.280 the tracks, I said, you know, I think I'm I 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:26.680 told Wayne Hood, who who is the engineer co producer 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:30.160 with me. I said, Wayne, I think I'm gonna call 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:34.520 Patty Scalfe for this song. Him to him, she has 0:09:34.559 --> 0:09:38.240 that Jersey soul. She she's like the Jersey soul girl. 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:42.320 She'll add something to this song. I know it. So 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:47.520 I sent it to Patty and I thought, here's the deal, Bob, 0:09:47.840 --> 0:09:51.400 this is the this is the great part about why 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:55.120 this album was so much fun to make. Sometimes albums 0:09:55.200 --> 0:10:00.120 excruciating hard work. This thing was like I would is 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:03.319 like I felt like I was riding a wave, you know. Uh. 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:05.520 I sent it to Patty. I thought she was gonna 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:12.280 echo some of the lines I, you know, sang, and 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:16.920 she was gonna hit some harmony, which was very uh 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:19.760 you know obvious. You know, maybe she'll sing harmony here 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:22.160 and there. This is what I'm thinking, this is why 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:26.199 I make a record. But no, She goes in and 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:30.000 lays her voice or stacks her vocals about twelve times, 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:32.920 and she captures the wind that the Holy Spirit on 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:35.640 the on the on the record, you know. And then 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:38.120 Bruce walks and he says, what are you doing? And 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:41.520 she says, I'm doing a record with Dihon. He says, 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:43.959 I love this song. He says, ask him if I 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:47.480 could play a solo. She she she calls me. She says, 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:50.400 Bruce wants to play a solo, And I said, do 0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:57.400 I have to pay him? So so I said, okay, 0:10:57.559 --> 0:11:00.880 could you know so she uh, so he played a 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:03.160 solo on it. So I got, you know, this this 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:05.600 is the fun I was. And then I I thought, 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:09.000 well me, and I asked, you know, I have Bruce 0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:12.200 and Petty. Let me call Stephen van Zan. He's he's 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:15.200 a friend. We go way back, used to we we 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:19.000 played together in the seventies, you know, and we've been 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:22.520 friends all these years. So you know, he jumped on 0:11:22.559 --> 0:11:25.520 a song called way Down. So that's how it started, 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:30.400 you know. And I just and and Bob, I kid 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:33.600 you not. I just didn't send the songs out from 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:36.880 here on in like to just two people because of 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:41.560 who they were or you know. Uh, I was listening 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:45.280 to stuff and I'm a big fan of like Sonny 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:50.480 Landreth's guitar slide guitar playing. I knew the song, I 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:52.880 got the queue and needed a slide guitar player that 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:56.040 I knew and and I thought, this guy, this guy 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:58.880 is the best. So and Sonny was just thrilled to 0:11:58.920 --> 0:12:02.240 do it. Some anti fish. You know, I know she's 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:05.439 from New Orleans. I mean, I mean she lives that 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:09.240 nobody in New Orleans place bad nobody. So I I 0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:12.840 you know, she jumped on it. So it was just fun. 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:16.520 Every time, either I was in the studio with people 0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:21.280 like Little Stephen and John Hammond, or I had to 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:26.280 send it to send them the recording, like uh, you know, 0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:29.520 like Brian sets up he was in the Midwest somewhere 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:33.680 I had I I sent them Uptown number seven. But 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:36.160 I heard him on it. It was like a rockabilly thing, 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:40.560 you know, so um you know, it just it went 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:45.720 from there and it was exciting. Man, it was like fun. 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:50.680 It was just it was like every time uh, I 0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:56.520 got someone to contribute their vision and what they were 0:12:56.559 --> 0:13:01.439 hearing onto the track I did. It was so exciting 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:05.440 for me because it was like a gift. It was 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:09.720 almost like unwrapping a present or something, you know. And 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:14.760 I found out something about myself at this age, all 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:17.400 the years that I've been around, man, I hate to 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:20.760 ask anybody for anything. You know. I was brought up, 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:23.680 you know, you do it yourself, you know, like a 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:26.400 pride thing. You know. I don't know what it was. 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:28.600 I just never said, hey, I could use your help. 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:31.760 Never that would have been like, I don't know weakness, 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:34.000 I don't know the neighborhood, I was in this macho 0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:36.840 Italian crap. You know, I don't know what it was, 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:44.840 but I'm telling you did I appreciate people these acts 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:48.360 of service or the or the the giving or the 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:53.200 time they put into uh my thing. It was like 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:58.480 it was like truly a blessing. Okay, how did you 0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:02.760 get Van Morrison and Jeff back on the record. Well, 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:12.560 I'll go with from Marrison first. Van Morrison is my 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:15.640 wife's favorite singer and I know him. We go out 0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:18.920 for dinner. Every time he comes close to my house. 0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:22.280 He gives me a call. Let's let's go back. How 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:27.400 do you know Vann Morrison? I met Van Morrison back 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:31.240 at the Spectrum in Philadelphia with the Moody Blues, back 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:34.760 when he had uh, you know, moon dance out and 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:37.880 we became friends. I'm just a little more interested. So 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:41.640 you were out the Spectrum, we were on the show together. Oh, 0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:44.520 you were on the show together. Okay, we were backstage 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:51.120 and uh, I just we started talking and we both 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:55.320 uh we hit it up because we we both had 0:14:55.360 --> 0:15:00.200 something in common with Bert Burns. Uh with an Then 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:06.160 again you start you start like bonding on on people, 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:09.600 you know, you know, with John Lee Hooker and and 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:13.880 jazz and the horn players at the Apollo. You know, 0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:16.560 I was telling him one time, I said, I said Van, 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:22.280 I said, you know, I said, the when I put 0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:27.240 these guys together and I recruited what became Dion and 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:31.320 the Belmonts. I said, uh, the way I used to 0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:34.680 do the arrangements for the wander or Runaround Sue or 0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:38.760 Ruby Baby. I said, when I heard the the the 0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:42.000 horn section at the Apollo, I would just try to 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:46.200 imitate the horn section. So I give these guys parts, 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:52.800 you know, like Ruby Baby. It's like Rue Man, it's 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:56.240 like a horn section. Madd Ant and dad at and 0:15:56.320 --> 0:16:00.080 Dad or the Wanderer. We were we're going like that 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:08.400 lola la la la up. But it's like uh bot 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:13.440 blood do and do it out out and do that ut. 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:17.680 Now you know it's it's like horns. So when I 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:20.320 when I was explaining that stuff to him and he said, man, 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:23.360 I want to sing like a horn, I said me too. 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:26.080 I said, I'm a rhythm singer. I don't hold notes. 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:28.880 I like to but that. But let her doesn't do 0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:35.400 that and do that. But do you know, so, I said, 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:38.360 I'm a rhythm singer. You give me a beat and 0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:42.000 we just bonded on that stuff, you know, and so 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:44.600 we've been fresh. So I always told my wife, I said, listen, 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:49.520 Van Morrison and I are soul brothers. Man. She said, no, 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:52.840 he's bad, you know, She's give me all this stuff, 0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:56.840 but she loves Van Morrison. She's like you get in 0:16:56.920 --> 0:17:00.600 her car. She has twelfth Van Marrison c ds, so 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:05.360 still has a CD playing right of couse. So anyway, 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:08.080 I I I asked Van. I thought, you know, let 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:11.080 me ask him, and I wanted him to play Actually 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:13.840 I wanted him to play horn, and he said no, 0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:17.399 I'd rather sing with you. So I wrote this song. 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:22.000 I had this song called I Got Nothing. So I said, man, 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:24.359 when you got Van Mark, I told Susan. I said, man, 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:29.640 when you sing it with Van Morrison, nothing is good 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:33.520 enough is more than enough, you know. I said that 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:36.480 it was so much fun doing this record with him, 0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:39.359 because you know, he's he's just so free a band 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:42.400 and he yells, he's just so not he's so honest, 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:45.840 so natural, you know, And you know I'm like that 0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:48.479 when I'm inside a song, I just like expressing it. 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:52.800 I don't produce anything, you know, I express it. I 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:56.560 never sing a song the same twice, you know. So, 0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:58.880 so I I enjoyed that and it came out good, 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:04.080 came out good. Then well, I had this beautiful ballad Bob. 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:10.320 It's called I Can't Get Started Again. I Can't Get 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:14.159 Started Again. I'm i'm, I'm listening to it. I'm thinking. 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:19.119 You know, Jeff Beck is the only guitar player that 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:23.160 can make me cry. I mean, I've I've heard him 0:18:23.160 --> 0:18:27.480 do Ori ears that from La Traviato. You know, I 0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:31.679 don't know he he can make me cry? So I 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:36.040 you know, Susan says, I don't know Jeff Beck. You 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:40.679 know he's he's pretty much, you know, isolated out. You know, 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:43.399 I don't. I don't know if he's gonna respond. I 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:46.000 asked him. I I wrote him an email. He said, 0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:48.360 I'd love to do it. He said, in fact, I'd 0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:52.080 love to put the song on my new album. I said, 0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:56.159 you got it, so he It was that simple. He 0:18:56.240 --> 0:19:01.160 was very easy to work with. He was so generous 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:04.760 with me. It was it was incredible. So, okay, how 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:09.320 do you know Jeff Beck? Well? I met Jeff Beck 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:11.520 at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. He he 0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:17.320 played a song he did uh uh. People get ready, 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:24.119 you know, and he just amazed me. You know he uh, 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:27.080 you know, I know him from his you know, early recordings, 0:19:27.200 --> 0:19:31.800 whether with you know Male or the you know people 0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:36.399 he was with early on and you know followed him, 0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:41.440 and you know, he's just he's just a gold standard 0:19:41.480 --> 0:19:44.600 bearer because when people are in the room with Jeff Beck, 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:47.800 they like at attention. You know, he's just something he 0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:51.000 he and he does it just with his hands. I know, 0:19:51.119 --> 0:19:54.080 no pick, It's amazing. He's got gold in his hands. 0:19:54.119 --> 0:20:00.320 He's like, uh, he's got a touch that I don't know. 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:04.360 He doesn't use, he doesn't use effects, he doesn't use 0:20:04.400 --> 0:20:07.959 a whole lot of crazy sting. He just plays with 0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:12.520 his hands and he gets the sound. It's just I 0:20:12.560 --> 0:20:17.600 don't know, it's incredible. It's it's just it's amazing what 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:20.399 he does. I was just grateful to get him on 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:24.960 the song. I'm so grateful that he said yes, Okay. 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:28.160 A couple of things you are literally alleged. Do you 0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:30.760 find when you're in these situations like the Rock and 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:33.520 Roll Hall of Fame, people just are drawn to you. 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:37.840 They want to meet you. I don't know, I don't 0:20:38.640 --> 0:20:43.320 I really don't know. But about that maybe some of 0:20:43.320 --> 0:20:47.840 those guys voted for me. I really don't know. But uh, 0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:50.320 but you know when I called Jeff Beck and started 0:20:50.359 --> 0:20:52.359 talking to him, you know, he he did an album 0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:59.199 called Crazy Legs, and uh, you know he uh, you know, 0:20:59.320 --> 0:21:03.320 Geen Vincent had had a guitar player that uh uh 0:21:03.760 --> 0:21:07.840 never left Virginia, you know, but uh, Jeff Beck honored 0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:11.479 him by uh Cliff Gallup. He he honored him by 0:21:11.520 --> 0:21:15.720 doing this whole album around Cliff Gallup because the guy 0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:18.800 was just a great player, you know. And uh I 0:21:19.480 --> 0:21:21.720 was talking to Jeff about that. I said, man, when 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:24.240 you made that album, Gene Vincent must have been smiling 0:21:24.280 --> 0:21:28.399 down on you, you know, because uh, this guy is 0:21:28.480 --> 0:21:31.879 just so I don't know, he's the best. You know, 0:21:31.880 --> 0:21:34.600 people don't real They talk about Clapton, they talk about Hendricks. 0:21:34.960 --> 0:21:40.040 I don't care. Jimmy Page. Beck is the best. I agree, 0:21:40.200 --> 0:21:43.359 I agree, and I love Joe Bonamas. I think he's 0:21:43.920 --> 0:21:47.080 lots a whole new generation he's got. Yeah, well you 0:21:47.119 --> 0:21:50.919 know it comes down from you got Muddy Waters, Howling 0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:55.240 Wolf and all all those guys, you know, skip James 0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:59.119 Robert Johnson. Then you get that next generation with Jeff 0:21:59.160 --> 0:22:02.360 Beck and Claude Then and Jimmy Page and Joe Bonamas 0:22:02.600 --> 0:22:06.440 is the nu kid on the block. Okay, you talk 0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:10.560 about all these people are literally high profile legends themselves. 0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:13.879 You say you don't like to ask for favors, but 0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:16.520 are you someone to use the old term, who has 0:22:16.520 --> 0:22:19.480 a pretty big rolodex and stays in touch with these 0:22:19.520 --> 0:22:22.200 people or this just because you're making the album it 0:22:22.280 --> 0:22:27.399 came together? Yeah, a little of both, you know, a 0:22:27.440 --> 0:22:31.879 little of both. I like Jon Hammond, Rory Blocks. You know, 0:22:31.960 --> 0:22:35.960 most most of the people on here on the album. 0:22:36.040 --> 0:22:39.200 You know, I I see periodically and have dinner with 0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:43.160 him and UH know them. But some of the people 0:22:43.200 --> 0:22:46.720 I just know and you know, I don't go out 0:22:46.760 --> 0:22:49.080 with them, but you know, I don't see them like 0:22:49.280 --> 0:22:52.919 daily or you know, frequently. But you know how it 0:22:53.040 --> 0:22:55.040 is when you have a friend, it's like you don't 0:22:55.040 --> 0:22:57.000 see him for five years and you pick up it's 0:22:57.080 --> 0:23:01.320 like right there, It's like absolutely, you didn't move an inch, 0:23:01.440 --> 0:23:07.240 you know, It's like you just continue. So um, you know, 0:23:07.280 --> 0:23:11.680 it was a little of both, you know. Okay. Um, Now, 0:23:11.680 --> 0:23:16.120 the music business has certainly changed since you started. When 0:23:17.119 --> 0:23:19.040 it was a lot of independence and it was all 0:23:19.080 --> 0:23:22.960 about the hits. Today, even a Gigiana kid is nowhere 0:23:23.080 --> 0:23:25.159 close to what it was in the sixties. People have 0:23:25.240 --> 0:23:28.800 no idea these songs would play, everybody would know them. 0:23:28.880 --> 0:23:31.919 So when you make music today and it's harder to 0:23:31.960 --> 0:23:35.600 get the message out and you know inherently for everybody, 0:23:35.640 --> 0:23:41.359 the impact is lower, is it hard to keep your motivation? Well, 0:23:42.680 --> 0:23:46.520 I don't know. I feel like I've I did more 0:23:46.560 --> 0:23:49.480 in this in this last year, and then I didn't 0:23:49.480 --> 0:23:53.320 the last twenty years for some reason. But so I'm 0:23:53.359 --> 0:23:56.640 I'm motivated just because I was, uh like, I love 0:23:56.720 --> 0:23:59.560 talking about this album because it's I don't feel like 0:23:59.600 --> 0:24:02.400 I'm talking about me so much. It's just that I've 0:24:02.400 --> 0:24:05.280 been surrounded by these incredible artists, so I got got 0:24:05.320 --> 0:24:08.600 into their lives a little and just to appreciate what 0:24:08.680 --> 0:24:12.200 they do and being connected with them and and them 0:24:12.280 --> 0:24:15.679 doing me such a giving me such a gift. You know, 0:24:15.760 --> 0:24:21.040 it's it was a it was just a nice time 0:24:21.040 --> 0:24:26.359 of life for me. You know, it was uh just enjoyable. 0:24:26.400 --> 0:24:31.440 And you know, the to enjoy relationships like that, Uh, 0:24:31.640 --> 0:24:34.359 the the impact, I know what you I know what 0:24:34.400 --> 0:24:37.680 you're talking about. You know, there was a time when 0:24:37.720 --> 0:24:40.440 you come out with an album and it sold six million. 0:24:40.520 --> 0:24:45.640 None none of mine. But you know what I'm saying, uh, 0:24:45.720 --> 0:24:49.000 And I don't really like. There's a kid across the 0:24:49.040 --> 0:24:52.760 street from me. I've known known him since he was born. 0:24:53.880 --> 0:24:56.440 His name is Zach Cone. He has a he has 0:24:56.440 --> 0:25:00.440 a group called Red Drum Society. But this kid used 0:25:00.440 --> 0:25:02.880 to come in my house, I would say. He would 0:25:02.880 --> 0:25:04.679 ask me how to play guitar, and I taught him 0:25:04.680 --> 0:25:07.800 how to play guitar. And then a couple of years 0:25:07.840 --> 0:25:10.000 ago he said I can't sing. I said, yeah, you 0:25:10.000 --> 0:25:11.800 could sing, Zach. I took him out on the street 0:25:11.800 --> 0:25:15.160 and we started yelling. And now he's singing. And now 0:25:15.200 --> 0:25:18.199 he has a number one EP on the blues charts, 0:25:18.320 --> 0:25:22.920 Red Drum Society. And and I go to him and say, Zack, 0:25:23.560 --> 0:25:26.440 what kind of business am I in? Because I don't 0:25:26.720 --> 0:25:29.359 now he's teaching me about them. I taught him about 0:25:29.400 --> 0:25:33.520 the art, he's teaching me about the business. He's teaching 0:25:33.520 --> 0:25:36.359 me about the meta tags and the and the UH, 0:25:37.640 --> 0:25:41.600 the analytics and the and the UH on the back 0:25:41.720 --> 0:25:44.560 end the Facebook and in the back end of Instagram 0:25:44.600 --> 0:25:47.000 and all you know who. I didn't know what what 0:25:47.080 --> 0:25:50.520 he was talking about you know, but uh, you learned 0:25:50.560 --> 0:25:55.080 about it about these uh you know, uh the marketing 0:25:55.119 --> 0:26:00.000 part of it because he's doing it alone, and uh 0:26:00.080 --> 0:26:03.800 he knows the inner workings of it, you know, so 0:26:04.200 --> 0:26:07.160 we're helping each other. It's crazy, but it's a great business. 0:26:07.480 --> 0:26:10.920 It absolutely is. Let's talk about the blues. Certainly all 0:26:11.000 --> 0:26:14.520 of the uh British guitarists were influenced by the Delta 0:26:14.560 --> 0:26:17.440 Blues people who were tend to be ignored in America 0:26:17.640 --> 0:26:20.439 until college kids picked him up in the sixties and 0:26:20.480 --> 0:26:23.080 they started to book him. Were you always a fan 0:26:23.160 --> 0:26:28.560 of the blues and these blues musicians? No, I grew up. 0:26:29.640 --> 0:26:34.159 I grew up. Well, I did hear John Lee Hooker. 0:26:34.280 --> 0:26:37.199 I did hear Jimmy Reid. Jimmy Reid's part of my 0:26:37.320 --> 0:26:42.040 d n A. Uh, that's why I got into this business, Bob. Like, 0:26:42.160 --> 0:26:45.080 I heard a song by Hank Williams on my radio 0:26:45.119 --> 0:26:47.600 when I was like ten years old, and it just 0:26:48.240 --> 0:26:51.119 that was it? What song was it? It was called 0:26:51.119 --> 0:26:54.760 honky Tonk Blues. It threw me right on the road. 0:26:55.119 --> 0:26:58.680 There was a little radio station that came out of Newark, 0:26:58.680 --> 0:27:02.840 New Jersey, the the Don Larkins show. He was an 0:27:02.880 --> 0:27:05.600 army guy and he got into country music. He started 0:27:05.600 --> 0:27:08.560 he was a DJ. I used to run home from 0:27:10.200 --> 0:27:13.399 from junior High school just to get the last twenty 0:27:13.440 --> 0:27:15.880 minutes of it because it was like from three to four. 0:27:16.880 --> 0:27:21.000 So uh, and I and I, you know, this is 0:27:21.040 --> 0:27:25.000 after I heard Hank Williams. I tracked it down who 0:27:25.080 --> 0:27:27.920 was playing it, and you know, stuff like that, and 0:27:28.520 --> 0:27:30.280 and then I went. I went up to Fordham Road. 0:27:30.640 --> 0:27:36.919 There was a in the bronx Um. There was a 0:27:36.960 --> 0:27:40.359 little record shop called Cousins Record Shop. Luke cha Ketty 0:27:40.640 --> 0:27:43.320 owned it, and I asked Lou I said, I heard 0:27:43.320 --> 0:27:49.719 a song by Hank Williams, um honky tonk blues. And 0:27:49.760 --> 0:27:53.280 he pulled the record out and I I went upstairs 0:27:53.320 --> 0:27:56.359 and put it on the turntable with the needle and listen. 0:27:56.400 --> 0:27:59.240 I said, that's I want this. And I heard the 0:27:59.240 --> 0:28:02.240 back side of it, and I learned my uncle got 0:28:02.280 --> 0:28:05.119 me a guitar, and I start. I just was mesmerized 0:28:05.160 --> 0:28:08.360 by this stuff. You know, it's hard to explain what 0:28:08.359 --> 0:28:10.520 what that does to you when you hear it, you know, 0:28:11.200 --> 0:28:15.120 like because it threw me on the road, you know it. Uh, 0:28:15.359 --> 0:28:19.560 it was so engaging, so Uh, Luca Ketty said, I'll 0:28:19.600 --> 0:28:21.960 just give me a number. I'll call you when every 0:28:22.000 --> 0:28:24.399 every new Hank Williams song comes out, I said, please. 0:28:24.440 --> 0:28:26.360 I fell in love with this guy. Then I heard 0:28:26.440 --> 0:28:30.840 Jimmy Reid, and then I was a weird kid man 0:28:31.040 --> 0:28:33.919 because in my neighborhood people was they were listening to 0:28:34.440 --> 0:28:38.280 Jimmy Riselli and Jerry Vale, and uh, you know, here 0:28:38.320 --> 0:28:41.440 I am listening to Jimmy Reid and Hank Williams, you know, 0:28:42.200 --> 0:28:45.760 and you know when you hear something like, uh, you know, 0:28:47.800 --> 0:28:50.320 Jimmy Reid, I want I wanted to I wanted to 0:28:50.360 --> 0:28:53.320 communicate like Hank Williams, and I wanted to groove like 0:28:53.400 --> 0:28:57.920 Jimmy Reid. So uh, that's how I got into that. 0:28:58.200 --> 0:29:01.760 And what was the question? No, I forgot. You know, 0:29:02.040 --> 0:29:05.320 it's your affection for the blues, the generation of that, 0:29:05.400 --> 0:29:09.080 and when it happened. Yeah, well, well I I started. 0:29:10.480 --> 0:29:14.640 I I kind of digested that music and and started 0:29:14.680 --> 0:29:17.720 to make my own records. And when I got to 0:29:17.800 --> 0:29:22.200 run around Sue, which is probably a a cleverly disguised 0:29:22.200 --> 0:29:24.840 blue song, and the and the Wander is a blue song, 0:29:24.920 --> 0:29:27.560 and Ruby Baby is a blue song. And Drip Drop 0:29:28.160 --> 0:29:30.160 is a blue song. And I was up at Columbia 0:29:31.480 --> 0:29:35.400 and right across the hallway, which was only about three 0:29:35.440 --> 0:29:39.960 ft four ft they had hallways, and John Hammond Sr. 0:29:40.600 --> 0:29:45.520 His office was right across the hallway from Tom Wilson, 0:29:45.520 --> 0:29:48.400 who was producing me. He produced Dylan too. I was 0:29:48.440 --> 0:29:53.520 the first rock and roll assigned to Columbia Records, you know, 0:29:53.600 --> 0:29:58.680 before it became Sony Records then. Uh. John Hammond asked 0:29:58.680 --> 0:30:02.320 me one day, I was I was sitting on on 0:30:02.440 --> 0:30:07.280 the pianos bench with Aretha Franklin and we was we 0:30:07.280 --> 0:30:09.840 were doing got to tell this story. How are you 0:30:09.920 --> 0:30:12.360 sitting on the bench with the Wreatha Franklin who was 0:30:12.400 --> 0:30:14.720 signed to Columbia before she goes to Atlantic and has 0:30:14.720 --> 0:30:17.280 her big hits, right, And they didn't know what to 0:30:17.360 --> 0:30:19.480 do with both of us. They were giving us Al 0:30:19.560 --> 0:30:23.719 Jolson songs. They gave Aretha, I don't know, you know, 0:30:24.120 --> 0:30:26.600 some kind of rock, a Bye My Baby, but a 0:30:26.720 --> 0:30:30.400 Dixie mellow, you know. And they gave me a couple 0:30:30.440 --> 0:30:34.200 of Al Jolson songs. I liked al Jolson. My father 0:30:34.280 --> 0:30:37.200 used to listen to him and him I liked he 0:30:37.360 --> 0:30:40.000 was you know, he just had some swagger back then. 0:30:40.040 --> 0:30:42.200 You know. Now it's a little corny body, you know, 0:30:42.880 --> 0:30:45.960 but he was great. So yeah, but tell me the 0:30:46.000 --> 0:30:48.080 story of meeting in Wreatha Franklin and sitting on the 0:30:48.080 --> 0:30:51.800 piano bench. We both were a recording uh, and Bob 0:30:51.880 --> 0:30:58.400 Mercy was uh producing her Al Jolson songs and producing 0:30:58.400 --> 0:31:01.480 my Al Jolson songs. So it's it. And I'm sitting 0:31:01.480 --> 0:31:04.000 in his office was and the pianos right near the doorway, 0:31:04.320 --> 0:31:06.840 and we're doing drip drop, you know, the roof League 0:31:06.920 --> 0:31:11.240 and in the rain falling, No my head, drip drop, 0:31:11.960 --> 0:31:14.960 I said, the roof fifth League and in the rainfall 0:31:15.080 --> 0:31:19.200 and no my head hand I need him mop I 0:31:19.360 --> 0:31:22.840 crossed so hot, tear all and down in my bed 0:31:22.880 --> 0:31:29.840 head drip ity drop and uh, you know Hammond John 0:31:29.880 --> 0:31:33.520 Hammond walks, He says, hey, uh, he says, come in 0:31:33.560 --> 0:31:36.560 my office when you're finished. So I walk in there 0:31:38.440 --> 0:31:42.040 and he says, Dean, you know you got a flare 0:31:42.080 --> 0:31:47.040 for the blues. You know. He says, uh, I gotta 0:31:47.080 --> 0:31:49.720 play it. He says, my son is getting into the blues. 0:31:50.840 --> 0:31:54.640 He said, uh. So he plays me something of his size. Man, 0:31:54.720 --> 0:31:58.640 that's pretty cool. He takes out the Robert Johnson album 0:31:58.760 --> 0:32:06.640 this is one, Bob. This is before Clapton probably heard 0:32:06.680 --> 0:32:12.560 Crossroads and John Hammond plays me preaching blues and Crossroads, 0:32:13.760 --> 0:32:17.320 and I was mesmerized. I said, I need one of you. 0:32:17.360 --> 0:32:19.880 Gotta get get me one of those albums. And I 0:32:19.920 --> 0:32:22.960 brought it home and nobody when I played it, nobody 0:32:22.960 --> 0:32:25.000 would there was going, what the hell are you listening to? 0:32:25.440 --> 0:32:28.080 They thought it was like Chinese music. They didn't know 0:32:28.200 --> 0:32:31.360 what the hell. I thought, you don't hear what he's doing. 0:32:31.560 --> 0:32:34.560 I thought it was I thought it was unbelievable. I 0:32:34.600 --> 0:32:40.560 got crazy and I started really getting into the You know, 0:32:40.640 --> 0:32:43.280 I did all kinds of blues songs in the early 0:32:43.320 --> 0:32:46.920 sixties up at Columbia with the the Apollo Theater guys. 0:32:47.040 --> 0:32:52.800 I did Spoonful by Howling Wolf early in the sixties, 0:32:53.720 --> 0:32:56.480 way before Cream or any any of those guys have 0:32:56.560 --> 0:33:01.320 a touched now. I was up at Serious Radio and 0:33:01.320 --> 0:33:07.520 and Peter Townsend and uh Roger walked in. They because 0:33:07.560 --> 0:33:10.040 they heard I was doing an interview, and they said, Dian, 0:33:12.560 --> 0:33:17.200 we love that song Spoonful. How the hell did you 0:33:17.320 --> 0:33:22.880 record that song? We want to know. I said, I 0:33:23.040 --> 0:33:26.080 was listening to Howland Wolf. I loved the song. One 0:33:26.080 --> 0:33:29.040 of my favorite Holland Wolf's songs. I said, I had 0:33:29.080 --> 0:33:35.200 this Birdland Gibson guitar, and I got into tremlow because 0:33:35.200 --> 0:33:38.360 Abou Diddley and I went up to Colombia and I 0:33:38.440 --> 0:33:43.000 had all the guys from the Apollo Theater band there, 0:33:43.040 --> 0:33:49.000 Buddy Lucas and Stick Sevens on drums, and Panama Francis 0:33:49.080 --> 0:33:56.320 and percussion, all these Mickey guitar, Baker and or Concurs, 0:33:56.320 --> 0:34:00.960 all these guys and and they would encourage me, and 0:34:01.040 --> 0:34:04.280 I said, I just said follow me, and I sang it. 0:34:04.480 --> 0:34:08.000 I said, that's the record. So they said, that's one 0:34:08.000 --> 0:34:13.000 of our favorite records. Who you know who? Who knows? 0:34:13.160 --> 0:34:15.440 You know? If to all these years, somebody tells me 0:34:15.480 --> 0:34:18.440 that it's crazy because you never know who you're reaching 0:34:18.600 --> 0:34:21.320 or who's listening. Well, you're at the I of the hurricane. 0:34:21.320 --> 0:34:23.359 That's why I say, if I write something, I don't 0:34:23.400 --> 0:34:25.560 know what people are talking about. People the same type 0:34:25.560 --> 0:34:29.400 of thing. These records have a long life. Let's go 0:34:29.520 --> 0:34:32.880 back to you growing up though. You go to school, 0:34:33.360 --> 0:34:44.040 good student, bad student, popular kid, unpopular kid. I wasn't unpopular, No, 0:34:44.200 --> 0:34:51.120 I was pretty uh in the mix, you know, Uh? 0:34:51.360 --> 0:34:54.480 I wasn't the greatest student. I was really good with math. 0:34:55.560 --> 0:34:59.080 I was a good I was good with math, but 0:34:59.160 --> 0:35:02.839 I had problem hims. I had like these, I'd get 0:35:02.880 --> 0:35:07.880 in fights and I don't know I had these. You know, 0:35:08.080 --> 0:35:10.400 I think it's you know, my father never had a 0:35:10.440 --> 0:35:13.760 real job, so when my uncle's and everybody got together, 0:35:13.840 --> 0:35:16.360 you know that they would put him down at the 0:35:16.400 --> 0:35:19.799 dinner table. They'd be like laughing at him. And at 0:35:19.840 --> 0:35:22.200 seven years old, I must have said to myself, nobody's 0:35:22.200 --> 0:35:24.920 ever gonna treat me like that. I'll break their freaking face. 0:35:25.520 --> 0:35:29.279 You know, I got this attitude. So I was like 0:35:29.280 --> 0:35:33.319 like this angry, like, don't ever, I don't ever. Yeah, 0:35:33.400 --> 0:35:36.960 I'm nobody's joke, you know. I'm like, you know, I 0:35:37.000 --> 0:35:39.319 didn't want to be treated. I must have sworn out 0:35:39.400 --> 0:35:43.040 to heaven or you know, vowed an oath that no one. 0:35:44.080 --> 0:35:48.279 I got this attitude, you know, So that's what I 0:35:48.400 --> 0:35:51.120 You know, I was like a good kid. I wanted 0:35:51.200 --> 0:35:52.959 to be a good kid. I was a weird kid 0:35:53.600 --> 0:35:58.960 because I'm into Hank Williams, I'm into Jimmy Reid, and 0:35:59.000 --> 0:36:02.360 I'm reading St. Thomas a coinas I'm like interested in 0:36:03.120 --> 0:36:05.960 blues and God. I wanted to know who God was, 0:36:06.040 --> 0:36:09.680 where he was. You know, I just that's that was 0:36:09.719 --> 0:36:13.279 my deal. Okay. But I was a good I was 0:36:13.320 --> 0:36:16.240 good with sports. You know. I had a good eye, 0:36:16.280 --> 0:36:20.120 hand coordination, you know, whatever sport was around. But you know, 0:36:20.239 --> 0:36:23.959 one day I challenged this guy up at Mount St. 0:36:24.040 --> 0:36:28.160 Michael on track on the track because I thought I 0:36:28.520 --> 0:36:31.920 was fast. We got on the track. I want to 0:36:31.960 --> 0:36:35.520 tell you something I forgot about track. After I raised 0:36:35.520 --> 0:36:38.920 this guy. I forgot. I said, that's not that's not it. 0:36:39.200 --> 0:36:42.000 I'm not going there because I couldn't be best at it. 0:36:42.120 --> 0:36:46.759 So I picked up the guitar and I started, you know, 0:36:47.920 --> 0:36:51.759 writing or trying to do something there. Okay, tell me 0:36:51.800 --> 0:36:54.200 more about your father. He didn't have a job. Where 0:36:54.239 --> 0:36:56.799 did the money come from? Your mother worked too? Yeah? 0:36:56.920 --> 0:36:59.880 My mother worked. She was a work She died a 0:37:00.080 --> 0:37:02.880 hundred and four. She worked. She worked down in the 0:37:03.600 --> 0:37:08.880 in the Millinary district in Manhattan. She took two three 0:37:08.880 --> 0:37:13.040 busses and come back and cooked dinner with a coat on. 0:37:13.600 --> 0:37:18.040 She you know, she she was the hub of the 0:37:19.160 --> 0:37:22.120 of the family, you know. But but they argued all 0:37:22.160 --> 0:37:25.800 the time because my father was like an emotional thirteen 0:37:25.880 --> 0:37:27.840 year old. You know, he I don't know. Maybe he 0:37:27.880 --> 0:37:30.560 was on the grid somewhere, you know, I don't I 0:37:30.560 --> 0:37:33.160 don't know where he was at. But but I gotta 0:37:33.239 --> 0:37:38.520 tell you my father had great qualities. The guy was 0:37:38.920 --> 0:37:42.719 an unbelievable athlete. He could swim and we would go 0:37:42.760 --> 0:37:45.800 to Orchard Beach. He'd swim out to an island. He'd 0:37:45.840 --> 0:37:48.920 dive off the city island bridge, and then he would sculpt. 0:37:49.040 --> 0:37:51.520 He would go in the cellar and sculpt something or 0:37:52.120 --> 0:37:56.080 lift weight. But he didn't like to work. How many 0:37:56.160 --> 0:38:00.480 kids in the family, Uh three? I was the oldest. 0:38:00.520 --> 0:38:03.560 I had two two sisters. Well, use are the oldest. 0:38:03.600 --> 0:38:05.640 All the hopes and dreams were in the oldest kid, 0:38:05.960 --> 0:38:09.919 and the oldest kid gets pushed. Was that your experience? Well, 0:38:09.960 --> 0:38:12.400 I didn't need to get pushed. I was pushing myself. 0:38:13.360 --> 0:38:16.680 I was like, Uh, I was just on a mission. 0:38:16.760 --> 0:38:21.760 The drive was on, and then uh was there music 0:38:21.800 --> 0:38:27.000 in the house. My father listened to Al Jolson. He 0:38:27.160 --> 0:38:33.520 listened to Louis Prima. I always say Louis Prima would 0:38:33.520 --> 0:38:35.239 be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame if 0:38:35.239 --> 0:38:39.759 he didn't sing Italian song. Because Sam but Tera was 0:38:39.760 --> 0:38:42.439 one of the best sex sax players I've I've ever 0:38:42.440 --> 0:38:51.920 heard you know that guy he was. He was just great. Okay, 0:38:51.920 --> 0:38:54.960 I'm a little younger than you, but I certainly were. 0:38:55.480 --> 0:38:58.160 And one of the big things they always said was 0:38:58.680 --> 0:39:02.319 street corner sea What was really going on there? Were 0:39:02.320 --> 0:39:07.120 you really seeing it on the street corners? Absolutely? Where else? 0:39:07.160 --> 0:39:11.560 Are hallways? When we found out the hallways had a 0:39:11.600 --> 0:39:14.279 better sound, we got into the hallways or the or 0:39:14.320 --> 0:39:17.719 the subway stations. But but we were saying anywhere, you know, 0:39:17.760 --> 0:39:21.440 on the stoops mostly you know, yeah, absolutely it was 0:39:21.480 --> 0:39:26.560 street music. Uh you know, we weren't on stage. We 0:39:26.560 --> 0:39:29.920 we didn't have a studio. It was like, uh, it 0:39:30.000 --> 0:39:35.200 was street music. We we get together and make up sounds, 0:39:35.280 --> 0:39:39.560 you know, you know, dead lead lead lead let yeah, 0:39:39.880 --> 0:39:44.919 dead little lead lead let yeah. You know down dome, dome, dome, 0:39:45.120 --> 0:39:49.200 dom dom and just jump on it with some harmony 0:39:49.320 --> 0:39:54.279 and it it was an art form, you know. And 0:39:54.320 --> 0:39:57.160 at what point do you say, hmm, I can make 0:39:57.160 --> 0:40:01.200 this a career, I can earn a living at this Well, 0:40:01.400 --> 0:40:05.160 I went down to a little company. Uh. There was 0:40:05.200 --> 0:40:08.560 a black guy in my neighborhood. His name was Willie Green. 0:40:08.680 --> 0:40:11.480 He was the Uh, the janitor of one of the 0:40:11.719 --> 0:40:15.640 apartment buildings. I couldn't wait to get with him after 0:40:15.680 --> 0:40:19.319 school because he played guitar and he listened to John 0:40:19.400 --> 0:40:22.440 Lee Hook. I loved this guy man, you know, I 0:40:22.480 --> 0:40:26.040 just couldn't wait to get with him. You know, it 0:40:26.120 --> 0:40:28.880 was the real deal for me. It was it was 0:40:29.000 --> 0:40:33.480 stuff that made me feel alive, you know. So I 0:40:34.040 --> 0:40:36.839 uh and he you know, then I found out that 0:40:36.880 --> 0:40:39.200 there was this company and they wanted me to audition. 0:40:39.239 --> 0:40:41.719 There was a songwriter in the neighborhood, not a very 0:40:41.719 --> 0:40:45.399 good one, but he knew this company and he he said, 0:40:45.440 --> 0:40:47.200 you should go down here in the audition. He got 0:40:47.239 --> 0:40:51.040 me an audition, and I was I was kind of 0:40:51.520 --> 0:40:55.239 frightened about it. And I told Willie Willie Green, this janitor, 0:40:55.800 --> 0:40:58.600 he said, just be yourself, he said, he said, sing 0:40:58.640 --> 0:41:01.520 that called Perkins song sang for me. You know. So 0:41:01.680 --> 0:41:03.799 I went down there and I did that, and I 0:41:03.800 --> 0:41:07.840 got a record deal. And uh, I didn't know what 0:41:07.880 --> 0:41:10.960 I was doing. I just you know, saying they they 0:41:11.000 --> 0:41:15.080 signed me right away. So uh, then they wanted they 0:41:15.120 --> 0:41:19.440 put me with this group from Oklahoma called the timber Lanes. 0:41:19.480 --> 0:41:23.719 You know, like to tote, you know, like you know, 0:41:23.840 --> 0:41:27.240 like uh, I said, I can't sing with these guys. 0:41:27.280 --> 0:41:33.000 So that was how I recruited all the best uh 0:41:33.200 --> 0:41:37.840 you know street doo wop singer is from the streets, 0:41:37.880 --> 0:41:41.040 you know that used to hang out in different neighborhoods 0:41:41.920 --> 0:41:47.040 listening to different jukeboxes. And uh, I got the best, 0:41:47.360 --> 0:41:50.640 you know, the best of the best and put them together. 0:41:50.680 --> 0:41:52.399 And it came out with my house one day and 0:41:52.440 --> 0:41:56.440 we put I wonder why together, Bob, you should have 0:41:56.480 --> 0:41:59.760 been there. I'm telling you, it was like a dream. 0:42:00.000 --> 0:42:01.920 I'm true. I don't know, you know, I wasn't in 0:42:02.080 --> 0:42:04.840 to do up that. I mean, I never sang with 0:42:05.680 --> 0:42:08.560 three other guys in the room. I had had a 0:42:08.600 --> 0:42:11.720 guitar and I would do Hank Williams songs or something. 0:42:12.920 --> 0:42:16.440 But being this company wanted to, you know, put me 0:42:16.480 --> 0:42:19.239 with this group, the Templings, and they did. I recorded 0:42:19.320 --> 0:42:22.920 uh something and I just didn't like it. I said, 0:42:23.840 --> 0:42:25.799 you know, let me try it. Being you want this, 0:42:25.960 --> 0:42:28.640 I'll get some guys. I'll do anything, you know, because 0:42:28.920 --> 0:42:32.520 I would do anything to make a record or you know, 0:42:32.719 --> 0:42:36.120 being an artist or so I got these guys and 0:42:36.440 --> 0:42:39.719 we put this song together and the first day we 0:42:39.800 --> 0:42:45.120 sang that song in my parents apartment, in my bedroom. 0:42:45.160 --> 0:42:51.000 Those three guys, it was it was like I was 0:42:51.040 --> 0:42:54.640 on a carousel in heaven. One guy was singing then 0:42:54.800 --> 0:42:57.359 and and that and and that and let edit and 0:42:57.520 --> 0:43:00.520 that and done, done that. The other guys on whoo 0:43:01.280 --> 0:43:05.520 and the other guy when when you know, and I'm 0:43:05.560 --> 0:43:08.400 singing lead. We were doing four different things. It was 0:43:08.440 --> 0:43:14.880 like dixie Land, but it was our own thing. Uh. 0:43:15.040 --> 0:43:17.560 But it was amazing. It was like a golden It 0:43:17.680 --> 0:43:23.160 was a golden moment, a real defining moment in my life. Okay, 0:43:24.280 --> 0:43:27.719 you have success. What would you consider to be your 0:43:27.800 --> 0:43:32.760 first big hit record? I think that I wonder why? Okay, 0:43:33.320 --> 0:43:35.840 so if we go, wonder why you cut it in 0:43:35.920 --> 0:43:38.520 the studio and they used to cut really fast. Did 0:43:38.600 --> 0:43:41.200 you know it was gonna be as big as it 0:43:41.320 --> 0:43:44.680 ended up being. No, But I knew we had something special. 0:43:45.120 --> 0:43:47.640 I liked it. I thought it was I thought it 0:43:47.680 --> 0:43:51.319 was pretty cool. It was different, you know. Uh, the 0:43:51.360 --> 0:43:57.400 intro to it is is as distinctive as for doop 0:43:57.400 --> 0:44:00.920 as Chuck Berry's in True and Row to Johnny be 0:44:01.000 --> 0:44:04.960 Good on guitar. Okay, but you're a young guy, you're 0:44:05.000 --> 0:44:08.759 living in the Bronx. Everybody's listening to the radio. What 0:44:08.920 --> 0:44:11.640 to like? What your song comes over the radio? What 0:44:11.719 --> 0:44:15.320 are the kids of the neighborhood saying? What do you think, Bob? 0:44:15.400 --> 0:44:18.520 It was It was crazy because, uh, you know, we 0:44:18.560 --> 0:44:24.280 didn't have air conditioners, so everybody had their there windows 0:44:24.320 --> 0:44:27.360 open in the summer right there, just you know, in 0:44:27.440 --> 0:44:30.840 the radios around and and they know that Dion and 0:44:30.840 --> 0:44:35.640 a Bellmans. They know I'm Francis as kid patent Francis 0:44:35.719 --> 0:44:38.320 Kin and I got a record out, so everybody's listening 0:44:38.360 --> 0:44:41.560 to the countdown. Everybody listened to the same music. Back then, 0:44:41.960 --> 0:44:45.080 we didn't have all these stations. Now you look, they 0:44:45.120 --> 0:44:48.920 have like fifty genres. Know, everybody listens to the same stuff, 0:44:49.680 --> 0:44:52.480 so I wonder why it comes on. It was. It 0:44:52.560 --> 0:44:56.360 was like it was surround sound coming out of everybody's window, 0:44:57.040 --> 0:44:59.960 so you know, and out of the convertibles in the street. 0:45:00.760 --> 0:45:04.799 So it was amazing. We uh, we bought jackets and 0:45:04.840 --> 0:45:07.360 we painted Dion and the Belmont's on the back. You know, 0:45:07.480 --> 0:45:10.120 we were like we were crazy. So it was a 0:45:10.160 --> 0:45:13.399 lot of fun, okay, but then you go on an 0:45:13.400 --> 0:45:17.200 incredible run both with him without the Belmont and you're 0:45:17.239 --> 0:45:23.520 a young guy. How do you handle that emotionally? You know, 0:45:23.600 --> 0:45:30.759 I'm bob. I I couldn't handle my emotions for I 0:45:30.800 --> 0:45:34.680 didn't even know what they were, where they came from. So, 0:45:35.160 --> 0:45:38.239 uh yeah, I started, you know, like a lot of people, 0:45:38.320 --> 0:45:42.160 I started with the drinking and the drugging, and uh, 0:45:42.520 --> 0:45:47.520 I started pretty young. Actually I started before I was recording. 0:45:48.440 --> 0:45:52.520 I started, uh fooling with with drugs when I was fourteen, 0:45:53.719 --> 0:45:59.200 and uh, you know, so I uh, you know, I 0:45:59.239 --> 0:46:02.839 wanted a umplished something with the singing and the contract 0:46:02.920 --> 0:46:09.360 and the records, but really I my feet were firmly 0:46:09.480 --> 0:46:11.839 planted on the in the air. You know, I had 0:46:11.880 --> 0:46:18.760 no I had no foundation at all. So it's crazy. Uh, 0:46:18.800 --> 0:46:23.160 and I you know, I got it, you know with 0:46:23.280 --> 0:46:26.600 that stuff, it's progressive and you get hooked. And the 0:46:27.200 --> 0:46:32.279 mid sixties were you know, I always say this, this 0:46:33.000 --> 0:46:38.200 three stages to drug addiction or alcoholism and all that 0:46:38.440 --> 0:46:41.880 kind of stuff. The first stage goes up, it's a 0:46:41.920 --> 0:46:45.320 lot of fun, you think you found heaven. The second 0:46:45.360 --> 0:46:50.399 stage is it flattens out. It's like fun and some problems. 0:46:51.000 --> 0:46:55.520 And then the third stage is nothing but problems. So 0:46:55.960 --> 0:46:59.360 that's how it went for me, uh the mid you know, 0:46:59.360 --> 0:47:03.440 when I was at Colombia, I was it was fun 0:47:03.560 --> 0:47:09.959 and then it got fun and some problems and uh 0:47:10.000 --> 0:47:13.919 you know like that. Okay, so you go on the road, 0:47:14.000 --> 0:47:17.600 you're a young success, do you partake of all of 0:47:17.640 --> 0:47:21.520 the goodies on the road, not only the drugs but 0:47:21.800 --> 0:47:28.919 the sex, etcetera. And I I I was a shy kid. Man. 0:47:29.239 --> 0:47:34.040 I was shy, so I I wasn't uh you know, 0:47:34.080 --> 0:47:38.600 it just wasn't part of my nature too. Uh just 0:47:38.920 --> 0:47:41.759 uh yeah, I wanted to, you know, and I did, 0:47:42.320 --> 0:47:44.840 but I wouldn't say it was like overboard. I was 0:47:44.920 --> 0:47:48.080 like I meet somebody. You know, if it happened, it happened. 0:47:48.080 --> 0:47:55.080 But you know, uh, I mean, yeah, you know, it's funny. 0:47:55.200 --> 0:47:57.360 I go back to the St. Thome as A Quintas 0:47:57.400 --> 0:48:00.239 that I was reading. It's funny how things are backed 0:48:00.320 --> 0:48:04.239 you when you're older and you're and you're having problems 0:48:04.239 --> 0:48:11.000 emotionally and you're you're taking drugs because uh uh. I 0:48:11.040 --> 0:48:14.160 started thinking about St. Thomas Aquinas and I started thinking 0:48:14.200 --> 0:48:17.480 about some of the things I I learned, and I 0:48:18.880 --> 0:48:21.719 you know, it's Acquaintas would say, if you don't have 0:48:21.840 --> 0:48:26.040 God in your life. You have to fill up on something, 0:48:26.520 --> 0:48:31.720 and it's usually the four substitutes, the the typical temptations 0:48:31.840 --> 0:48:38.000 or addictions. Its wealth, pleasure, power, and honor. And you 0:48:38.360 --> 0:48:42.800 want you got to get the money, the pleasure, sex, drugs, 0:48:42.880 --> 0:48:45.520 rock and roll, you gotta get you know. You you 0:48:45.560 --> 0:48:49.320 could see the politicians with the power, and people got power. 0:48:49.520 --> 0:48:52.800 That's that's a big addiction. And and honor. You gotta 0:48:52.800 --> 0:48:54.960 be right, you gotta win, you gotta be better. You 0:48:55.040 --> 0:48:57.279 got back all this stuff. So you try to fill 0:48:57.320 --> 0:49:00.920 yourself up with that stuff and it doesn't really work 0:49:01.560 --> 0:49:06.120 because it's outside yourself. You know, you're really not finding 0:49:06.480 --> 0:49:11.959 uh you, It'll never satisfy that deep longing of of 0:49:11.960 --> 0:49:15.799 the of your heart and spirit, you know. So I 0:49:15.840 --> 0:49:18.920 started to think about these things when I started getting addicted, 0:49:19.000 --> 0:49:21.560 you know, and I was when I was miserable, you know, 0:49:22.080 --> 0:49:27.160 coming into nineteen. I started thinking about the Mon Senior 0:49:27.200 --> 0:49:30.280 who stopped me on the street one day and he said, yo, Dion, 0:49:30.400 --> 0:49:33.759 come over here. What makes a man happy? And I said, Mon, 0:49:33.880 --> 0:49:37.680 seeing you, if I could get a thunderbird, if I 0:49:37.680 --> 0:49:40.839 could get a Gibson J two hundred guitar, I could 0:49:40.880 --> 0:49:42.840 get a hit record, I'm talking about when I was 0:49:42.880 --> 0:49:44.960 fifteen years old. I said, if I could get a 0:49:45.040 --> 0:49:47.600 date with that girl, Susan who moved down from Ver month, 0:49:47.840 --> 0:49:51.120 I'd be a happy guy. He said, no, Dion, the 0:49:51.280 --> 0:49:54.239 virtuous man is a happy man. I said, what the 0:49:54.280 --> 0:49:56.360 hell is virtue? I had no idea what it was 0:49:57.120 --> 0:49:59.440 because I was up to no good. And he said, 0:49:59.600 --> 0:50:03.000 it's a habitual and firm disposition to do the good. 0:50:03.600 --> 0:50:06.040 I mean, I remembered it because we sat there for 0:50:06.120 --> 0:50:09.080 twenty minutes and he drilled it into my head and 0:50:09.120 --> 0:50:12.200 I was up to no good. So but later on, 0:50:13.640 --> 0:50:16.960 when I'm hooked and baffled and wondering about he started 0:50:16.960 --> 0:50:20.680 thinking about these things. Gee. Maybe what he said was 0:50:20.719 --> 0:50:24.120 I wonder how you get there? You know? And then 0:50:24.160 --> 0:50:30.440 I met a guy I was like, I was, you know, 0:50:30.600 --> 0:50:33.359 I had twelve gold records on the wall, and I 0:50:33.400 --> 0:50:40.160 had a you know, I I had success run around 0:50:40.160 --> 0:50:42.760 Sue and the Wanderer and route. I had some big 0:50:42.760 --> 0:50:46.439 records with teenager in love as a kid. And then 0:50:46.960 --> 0:50:54.719 it rolls around nineteen six and February of nineteen sixty eight, 0:50:55.680 --> 0:51:00.880 Frankie Lyman dies of an overdose and I used to 0:51:00.960 --> 0:51:03.200 I ran the streets with Frankie Lyman. We used to 0:51:03.280 --> 0:51:06.360 we used to like take drugs together and stuff, and 0:51:06.440 --> 0:51:09.000 it just scared me. I thought, you know this is 0:51:09.440 --> 0:51:12.759 this is not gonna end up well. So I got 0:51:12.800 --> 0:51:16.080 on my knees one night and like that's why I said. 0:51:16.800 --> 0:51:19.799 It was like December fourteenth, there was I got on 0:51:19.840 --> 0:51:21.759 my knees and I asked God for help. I said, God, 0:51:21.800 --> 0:51:23.600 I don't know if you're real, I don't know what's 0:51:23.600 --> 0:51:26.080 going but you I need help. I'm telling you I 0:51:26.080 --> 0:51:28.720 haven't had a drug or a drink in fifty two years. 0:51:29.680 --> 0:51:35.279 So that was my Then I meet this guy and 0:51:35.320 --> 0:51:38.320 I'm having coffee with him. I don't know if you 0:51:38.360 --> 0:51:40.680 want to hear this, but keep going, keep going. But 0:51:40.800 --> 0:51:44.600 this is crazy, you know, because I'm from the streets, man, 0:51:44.719 --> 0:51:49.200 I'm from Crotona Avenue in the Bronx. We don't talk 0:51:49.239 --> 0:51:53.480 about this stuff. Nobody says, are you serene? Or how 0:51:53.520 --> 0:51:56.239 do you find peace of mind? You know who the 0:51:56.239 --> 0:52:00.040 hell cares? You know, nobody's thinking like that. But this 0:52:00.080 --> 0:52:03.680 guy says to me, do you know where feelings come from? 0:52:03.760 --> 0:52:07.840 I said no. He said, they come from your thinking. 0:52:08.480 --> 0:52:12.879 Your thought, you will feel what you're thinking, now, who 0:52:12.960 --> 0:52:15.200 the hell of a knew that? I didn't know that. 0:52:16.480 --> 0:52:19.719 So now if if you know, if I get off 0:52:19.800 --> 0:52:22.560 someday like a little which I don't, you know, I'm 0:52:22.640 --> 0:52:25.440 I'm a funny guy. Because if you would open up 0:52:25.480 --> 0:52:28.160 my brain, if you would open up saw my head 0:52:28.200 --> 0:52:30.799 in half and look inside my brain, you'd see a 0:52:31.000 --> 0:52:35.279 very peaceful, orderly place. So and that's because of this 0:52:35.320 --> 0:52:40.640 guy who told me that. Because so you know, he 0:52:40.760 --> 0:52:45.880 was like into pursuing wisdom, you know, cultivating the life 0:52:45.880 --> 0:52:47.919 of the mind. He used to say, this is where 0:52:47.920 --> 0:52:50.560 you live in your mind. You live here. You know, 0:52:50.680 --> 0:52:52.840 it's got you gotta be right because I was a mess. 0:52:52.920 --> 0:52:56.520 I was a mess, bob, you know. But thank god, 0:52:57.719 --> 0:53:00.680 I I think from that point on, well, I've always 0:53:00.680 --> 0:53:04.040 had this. I've always had this. I gotta say, I've 0:53:04.080 --> 0:53:10.200 always had this wonderful gift to surround myself with great 0:53:10.320 --> 0:53:12.879 people that knew more than I did, much more than 0:53:12.920 --> 0:53:15.480 I did. I don't know what that and and I'm 0:53:15.480 --> 0:53:18.279 not saying all the time I was around, you know, 0:53:18.680 --> 0:53:21.120 there were people coming out of my life that weren't 0:53:21.239 --> 0:53:25.879 like that. But the people that I really appreciated, I 0:53:25.880 --> 0:53:32.120 I I had this ability to notice that I wanted 0:53:32.120 --> 0:53:35.839 to be this guy's friend. You know, he he could 0:53:35.840 --> 0:53:40.120 take me to higher ground. Okay, man, let's say look, 0:53:40.239 --> 0:53:43.560 let's say hypothetically tomorrow you went to the doctor and 0:53:43.600 --> 0:53:46.319 he said you have a year to live tragically, but 0:53:46.360 --> 0:53:50.000 it doesn't not really happening. Would you partake of drugs 0:53:50.000 --> 0:53:53.439 and alcohol or would you stay off? Oh? Absolutely not, 0:53:54.120 --> 0:54:01.000 absolutely stay clean. Now I'm I'm high. I'm like, Uh, 0:54:01.320 --> 0:54:03.640 I'm a very grateful guy. I wouldn't want to be 0:54:03.680 --> 0:54:08.520 any other place than in the presence of beauty and 0:54:08.680 --> 0:54:14.360 ore and wonder and life and I and my friends. No, okay, 0:54:13.800 --> 0:54:18.440 you become sober and sixty eight, that's very early, you know. 0:54:18.520 --> 0:54:21.480 So being sober today is a big thing. But certainly 0:54:21.520 --> 0:54:25.720 it's something like me who gave up alcohol in for years. 0:54:25.760 --> 0:54:28.040 People are cajoling me, have a drink, have a drink. 0:54:28.560 --> 0:54:33.160 Did you experience that? Yeah, But it's not something I 0:54:33.200 --> 0:54:39.480 got rid of or something. It's it's just something that uh, 0:54:39.520 --> 0:54:43.080 I don't I don't want and I don't need to 0:54:43.120 --> 0:54:45.239 go there, and I don't need to feel better than 0:54:45.280 --> 0:54:50.760 I feel. I really I like to feel what I'm feeling. Um, 0:54:50.800 --> 0:54:56.200 I like to experience life in a very real way, 0:54:56.280 --> 0:55:02.799 on a higher reality. Um, it's just uh to me, 0:55:02.880 --> 0:55:06.600 it's the real deal. It's something uh and and drugs 0:55:06.600 --> 0:55:13.040 are alcohol. They they I want to be fully alive, 0:55:13.239 --> 0:55:15.359 and that's not the way to go if you want 0:55:15.360 --> 0:55:17.359 to I'm totally with you. There's no drug I've ever 0:55:17.400 --> 0:55:19.959 taken that's as good as a natural Hye me sound 0:55:20.000 --> 0:55:23.120 like a cliche, but I firmly believe that. No, I 0:55:23.480 --> 0:55:28.360 uh And, Look, it's been fifty two years. I have 0:55:28.560 --> 0:55:32.160 three daughters that loved me dearly. They walk in the house, 0:55:32.200 --> 0:55:35.239 they want to lean on my shoulder and hug me, 0:55:35.280 --> 0:55:38.080 and they don't feel judged. I don't judge them. I 0:55:38.200 --> 0:55:42.280 enjoy them. I have. I have a wife, that girl Susan. 0:55:42.400 --> 0:55:44.200 I told you I met her when I was fourteen. 0:55:44.400 --> 0:55:48.160 Still my wife been married fifty seven years. I'm like, 0:55:49.000 --> 0:55:51.160 if I had one year to live, I'd probably get 0:55:51.200 --> 0:55:55.799 closer to my friends and uh and and closer to 0:55:55.840 --> 0:56:00.239 the people I love. But I wouldn't. You know, rugs 0:56:00.280 --> 0:56:02.640 and alcohol would take you further away from that, So 0:56:02.719 --> 0:56:11.640 I wouldn't. I wouldn't even think of that. Okay, So 0:56:11.719 --> 0:56:15.319 when you started out the package tour was the big thing. 0:56:15.800 --> 0:56:21.680 What were those days? Like? Wow, I'll tell you something, 0:56:21.719 --> 0:56:26.080 I learned a lot because you know, back in those days, 0:56:27.280 --> 0:56:32.320 well even today, the music brought the races together, brought 0:56:32.360 --> 0:56:36.720 different cultures together. You know. I traveled with Bobby Blue Bland, 0:56:36.760 --> 0:56:40.120 I traveled with Sam Cook. I'll tell you a story 0:56:40.160 --> 0:56:44.840 I put in. Uh. There's a song actually Songwriters of 0:56:44.880 --> 0:56:50.120 America UH picked it as the best song of Uh. 0:56:50.200 --> 0:56:53.319 It's called song for Sam Cook here in America. And 0:56:53.360 --> 0:56:59.560 what the song comes out of is um uh and 0:56:59.560 --> 0:57:03.560 and and Paul Simon helped uh is on it. He 0:57:03.800 --> 0:57:06.719 uh he sang some harmony with me, who made it 0:57:06.800 --> 0:57:11.720 just really something special. But when I met Sam Cook, 0:57:11.880 --> 0:57:17.800 I traveled with Sam Cook um for about form for 0:57:17.800 --> 0:57:21.320 for a month on a big show called show of 0:57:21.400 --> 0:57:26.960 Shows show. Uh, I forget something like that. I forget 0:57:26.960 --> 0:57:30.680 the name of the tour. But we we traveled all 0:57:30.720 --> 0:57:33.479 over the country and then we went on another tour 0:57:34.640 --> 0:57:38.720 and uh we were down in uh Memphis, and he 0:57:38.840 --> 0:57:42.919 was a very refined guy, Sam Cook, very intelligent. Uh. 0:57:42.960 --> 0:57:45.680 You know, I was rough, I was rough around the edges. 0:57:45.760 --> 0:57:49.120 I was kid from the Bronx. You know. He was 0:57:49.160 --> 0:57:54.040 a preacher's kid. And uh, I saw him in a 0:57:54.040 --> 0:57:57.800 lot of different situations in Memphis and people were you know, 0:57:58.480 --> 0:58:02.440 there was racism in New York, but it wasn't the 0:58:02.520 --> 0:58:04.560 same because I was, like I told you, I was 0:58:05.320 --> 0:58:08.440 at Columbia Records with all the Apollo guys that you know, 0:58:09.040 --> 0:58:12.520 and I was friends. I I became friends with Buddy 0:58:12.560 --> 0:58:19.520 Lucas for all his life, you know. And Sam Uh. 0:58:19.560 --> 0:58:22.560 You know, they had the Jim Crow laws down here. 0:58:22.600 --> 0:58:24.920 I who knew anything about that? You know, that was 0:58:24.960 --> 0:58:27.560 a whole different thing from me. So when when I 0:58:27.600 --> 0:58:30.040 saw people treating him the way they treated him, he 0:58:30.080 --> 0:58:34.600 was a very beautiful guy Statue West. He was tall, 0:58:35.280 --> 0:58:39.560 he was stood straight, he was bright. He he wanted 0:58:39.560 --> 0:58:41.800 to be around them because you know, like I said, 0:58:41.840 --> 0:58:45.800 you could learn from guys like this, so I would, 0:58:47.160 --> 0:58:51.120 you know, he he taught me basically that racism was, 0:58:51.720 --> 0:58:56.000 you know, a peculiar way to become a man. And uh, 0:58:56.040 --> 0:58:58.840 and if race matted to you, basically I learned it 0:58:58.920 --> 0:59:02.640 from him. If if race matters to you, if it's 0:59:02.680 --> 0:59:06.800 significant to you, you're a racist. It didn't matter to us. 0:59:07.680 --> 0:59:09.800 It doesn't matter to you and me. It's like I 0:59:10.000 --> 0:59:14.200 color a shoe color, you know. So I would watch 0:59:14.240 --> 0:59:16.400 this guy and I'd say, Sam, an youa punch that 0:59:16.440 --> 0:59:20.680 guy in his face, you know, And he'd say, Dan, 0:59:22.200 --> 0:59:24.640 you know, why what? Why should I get down on 0:59:24.640 --> 0:59:28.120 that level? You know? You know. So I got to 0:59:28.200 --> 0:59:31.520 observe him in a lot of different situations and the 0:59:31.560 --> 0:59:35.440 way he responded, and I never seen him get ruffled. 0:59:35.920 --> 0:59:39.320 I've never seen him get angry. I've seen him say 0:59:39.440 --> 0:59:44.760 things that were like incredible to just just deflective stuff 0:59:44.840 --> 0:59:48.680 that would like putting somebody's face, like put up a 0:59:48.720 --> 0:59:51.040 mirror in somebody's face to show them where they were 0:59:51.040 --> 0:59:54.400 really at. And I would think, what the hell that, 0:59:54.600 --> 0:59:58.520 you know, And then it dawned on me after about 0:59:58.520 --> 1:00:02.040 three weeks that he was the smartest guy in the room. 1:00:02.320 --> 1:00:04.600 But he never lets you know it. He just he 1:00:04.720 --> 1:00:07.520 was that smart. He didn't even have to go there. 1:00:07.560 --> 1:00:11.560 These people were idiots, you know. So he wanted to 1:00:11.920 --> 1:00:14.920 and he would talk about God and he would talk 1:00:14.960 --> 1:00:18.360 about brotherhood and friendship and understanding. He was he was 1:00:18.400 --> 1:00:21.200 like living out the Gospel. He would understand me. He 1:00:21.200 --> 1:00:23.959 he stood up for me. He he Sam Cook took 1:00:24.000 --> 1:00:27.240 me to a club in Memphis to to to see 1:00:27.320 --> 1:00:31.080 James Brown and the Flames, and people were getting on 1:00:31.120 --> 1:00:33.720 my case and he sayd hey, he's the kids with me. 1:00:33.880 --> 1:00:36.400 That's Dion, you know, we're doing shows things. But he 1:00:36.440 --> 1:00:38.400 was He was a good guy. So I wrote this 1:00:38.520 --> 1:00:42.080 song years ago and I never recorded it. It's called 1:00:42.120 --> 1:00:46.080 song for Sam Cook. And uh, last year when I 1:00:46.200 --> 1:00:50.080 when I saw a Green Book, I said to my wife, Wow, 1:00:50.200 --> 1:00:52.840 they wrote a song. They wrote they put a movie together. 1:00:53.280 --> 1:00:56.360 Reminds me of my song. You know, it's it's like backwards, 1:00:56.400 --> 1:00:58.920 but it it reminds me of my song. So I 1:00:58.960 --> 1:01:01.880 took the song out and it ended up on Blues 1:01:01.920 --> 1:01:05.520 with Friends. And when I get when I played it 1:01:05.600 --> 1:01:10.240 for Paul Simon, you know, he mentioned racism. He said 1:01:10.240 --> 1:01:13.640 a song and I said, it's not really. I said, yes, 1:01:13.720 --> 1:01:17.840 there's a racism component to it, but it's really about it. 1:01:17.840 --> 1:01:22.160 It's really a song about brotherly love and friendship and understanding. 1:01:23.200 --> 1:01:26.200 And uh he said, yeah, I get it. I get it. 1:01:26.360 --> 1:01:31.240 So we did it together. Okay, who turned you onto heroin? 1:01:31.320 --> 1:01:37.360 What were the circumstances there? Ah, one day, you know, 1:01:37.440 --> 1:01:41.320 the the idea of that. I was young and my 1:01:41.440 --> 1:01:46.680 parents were always arguing, always, man just twenty four seven. 1:01:47.800 --> 1:01:49.840 My father never had a job, and they would, you know, 1:01:51.080 --> 1:01:54.479 just be at it all the time. So the first 1:01:54.520 --> 1:01:59.400 time I snorted some of this stuff, I was like, whoa. 1:01:59.760 --> 1:02:02.120 I was on the street the next day looking for it. 1:02:02.280 --> 1:02:05.120 I want more of that. It made me feel good, period, 1:02:06.760 --> 1:02:12.080 and uh that's what happens, you know. Uh, I just 1:02:12.120 --> 1:02:17.880 felt good. Okay, So tell us your version of splitting 1:02:17.920 --> 1:02:25.800 up with the Belmont. My version is is the real reason. 1:02:27.280 --> 1:02:34.320 You know, we did the first album and I had 1:02:34.360 --> 1:02:38.200 this love for Hank Williams and Jimmy Reid and these 1:02:38.560 --> 1:02:43.920 three guys that I put together started wanting to do 1:02:44.880 --> 1:02:47.960 they I don't know what they want, you know, because 1:02:48.120 --> 1:02:52.200 people back then talked about legitimate music like I wonder 1:02:52.240 --> 1:02:58.080 why wasn't legitimate? And they wanted to do stuff like 1:02:58.800 --> 1:03:02.240 for four times ups I don't know, like the like 1:03:02.360 --> 1:03:05.280 the uh the let him I forget. You know. It 1:03:05.360 --> 1:03:11.920 was like these these groups that sang smooth harmonies. Uh, 1:03:12.000 --> 1:03:15.800 and and we did a whole album of the this 1:03:16.920 --> 1:03:20.920 these songs that I guess from the Great American Songbook, 1:03:20.960 --> 1:03:24.760 you know, the Swinging on a Star and you know, 1:03:24.920 --> 1:03:27.440 in the Still of the Night, not the not the 1:03:27.480 --> 1:03:29.920 five sentence in the still of the night. But you 1:03:29.960 --> 1:03:32.400 know some of the like where when we had to 1:03:32.480 --> 1:03:35.480 hit record called where When because it was I did 1:03:35.520 --> 1:03:41.439 it because of it was the record company president's favorite song. 1:03:42.200 --> 1:03:44.640 So I put a version of that together. Then they 1:03:44.640 --> 1:03:49.080 wanted to sing everything like that. I said, I can't 1:03:49.120 --> 1:03:52.640 do that. I just can't do that. I'll blow my 1:03:52.680 --> 1:03:56.600 brains out. So we just split. And that's how I 1:03:56.640 --> 1:03:59.440 got to make runaround Sue and the wander and everything. 1:03:59.480 --> 1:04:01.840 You know, because if I would have stayed with them, 1:04:01.840 --> 1:04:04.600 I would have been if I would have stayed with that, 1:04:05.040 --> 1:04:08.800 not not basically with them. I love the guys I 1:04:08.840 --> 1:04:12.320 was there were great talents, and the guys in the 1:04:12.360 --> 1:04:17.840 Belmonts they were great, great singers. I loved them, you know, 1:04:17.920 --> 1:04:22.520 and it was humble to sing with them. But but 1:04:22.760 --> 1:04:26.200 the music I wanted to do what I wanted to do. 1:04:26.480 --> 1:04:30.080 It was like, you know, it was driving me. Uh 1:04:30.120 --> 1:04:33.800 I had no choice. I really didn't have a choice. 1:04:34.760 --> 1:04:38.080 Uh So, and I'm still doing it and I still 1:04:38.120 --> 1:04:41.520 don't have a choice. And I, um, what was the 1:04:41.560 --> 1:04:44.680 difference between being on LORI Records and an independent being 1:04:44.680 --> 1:04:54.280 on Columbia? Uh? I gotta say there wasn't too much difference. 1:04:54.400 --> 1:04:57.560 They both were I tell you the way it was 1:04:57.640 --> 1:05:02.080 back then. They both were with me, Okay, you want 1:05:02.080 --> 1:05:05.919 to do that song, ruby baby, do this song. We'll 1:05:06.000 --> 1:05:08.760 make you you do one song that you want to do. 1:05:08.760 --> 1:05:11.200 Do one song that we want you to do. So 1:05:11.240 --> 1:05:14.160 it was like one for you, one for me. Same 1:05:14.240 --> 1:05:19.120 with Glory Records. That was it. So, you know, I 1:05:19.240 --> 1:05:23.000 didn't know any better, you know. But when I got 1:05:23.040 --> 1:05:25.960 a little older, when I got when I started getting 1:05:26.000 --> 1:05:30.400 like I was about twenty three, I just I left 1:05:30.440 --> 1:05:33.040 Columbia and I left a lot of money on the table. 1:05:33.240 --> 1:05:35.720 I came home and I told my wife Susan, I said, 1:05:35.720 --> 1:05:38.440 I I left. I can't they they're not going to 1:05:38.520 --> 1:05:41.520 release the Kicking Child album. They don't like and it's 1:05:41.520 --> 1:05:44.280 a great album. They just released it recently and it's 1:05:44.280 --> 1:05:47.400 a it was a great album. Did it all live 1:05:47.520 --> 1:05:56.400 with with uh? I don't know, just life right in 1:05:56.440 --> 1:05:59.080 the studio four guys with Al Cooper on the on 1:05:59.160 --> 1:06:03.560 the keep warts and Tom Wilson produced it. But I 1:06:03.840 --> 1:06:06.320 told Susan, I left Columbia. I left the money there, 1:06:06.400 --> 1:06:08.360 you know, And I had a I had a contract 1:06:08.400 --> 1:06:10.520 and I had I had I was making a hundred 1:06:10.520 --> 1:06:13.280 thousand dollars a year for five years. That was the contract, 1:06:13.320 --> 1:06:17.360 I said, And I left within two years. I left 1:06:17.400 --> 1:06:20.240 three hundred thousand dollars on the table. I said, keep it. 1:06:21.400 --> 1:06:26.680 That's how much the music meant to me. That's how much. Uh. 1:06:26.720 --> 1:06:28.520 I just couldn't do it. It was the only thing 1:06:28.560 --> 1:06:31.960 I had in my that that that was my salvation. 1:06:32.160 --> 1:06:35.120 Was this this gift you know, that was in me. 1:06:35.320 --> 1:06:40.560 So I just I never lost my artistic curiosity. And 1:06:41.000 --> 1:06:43.600 I feel like the same as when I was a kid, 1:06:43.680 --> 1:06:46.720 you know. I like coming out on the stage with 1:06:46.880 --> 1:06:49.960 a guitar and just rocking, you know, and just doing 1:06:50.160 --> 1:06:53.560 a great song and taking and taking people on a trip. 1:06:53.840 --> 1:06:56.480 But it's gotta be. It's gotta be from the inside 1:06:56.480 --> 1:06:58.120 of you. How are you gonna do it with somebody 1:06:58.480 --> 1:07:02.280 else telling you that it just doesn't work? You know? 1:07:02.560 --> 1:07:07.240 Do it with this song? Nah? I don't think so. Okay, 1:07:07.280 --> 1:07:11.120 What was your perspective when the Beatles arrived in the 1:07:11.160 --> 1:07:15.320 whole British invasion? What do you think of that? Well? 1:07:15.480 --> 1:07:20.040 I didn't, to be honest with you, The Beatles didn't 1:07:20.040 --> 1:07:24.240 affect me one bit. I didn't even to me, I 1:07:24.240 --> 1:07:27.120 don't even call it the British invasion. I call it 1:07:27.160 --> 1:07:32.080 the uh, the British infusion, because I got into the 1:07:32.160 --> 1:07:34.920 Stones and you know, and some of the stuff they 1:07:34.920 --> 1:07:39.120 were doing, like the animals, uh, you know with the 1:07:39.160 --> 1:07:42.200 House of the Rising Sun. The Beatles were like too cute, 1:07:42.240 --> 1:07:45.320 I love you, Yeah, yeah, who who you know? I 1:07:45.400 --> 1:07:48.880 was like nah later for that stuff. I it was 1:07:48.960 --> 1:07:52.720 too many chords, too cute for me. I I didn't. 1:07:52.800 --> 1:07:55.240 I didn't get into it, but you know I got 1:07:55.240 --> 1:07:58.240 I came to appreciate them when they did rub a soul. 1:07:58.920 --> 1:08:01.480 They were were they were writing some great songs, you know, 1:08:01.640 --> 1:08:06.200 and then revolution you know. Uh. But it wasn't like 1:08:06.280 --> 1:08:09.640 anything that threatened me. I wasn't even it didn't you 1:08:09.680 --> 1:08:12.120 know why it didn't bother me because I mean it 1:08:12.160 --> 1:08:17.599 didn't affect me because I was in my room when 1:08:17.680 --> 1:08:21.120 I after I heard Jon Hammond, after he gave me 1:08:21.240 --> 1:08:26.200 U an arm full of albums of Furry Lewis and uh, 1:08:26.200 --> 1:08:32.799 Fred McDowell and Lightning Hopkins and and and and Robert Johnson, 1:08:33.000 --> 1:08:36.439 I was in my room. I love Bob Dylan. Bob 1:08:36.520 --> 1:08:38.760 Dylan came to Columbia. I was at a lot of 1:08:38.800 --> 1:08:42.280 the early sessions, just sitting there with John Hammond. But 1:08:42.439 --> 1:08:46.400 I tell you I loved him. That was incredible. But 1:08:46.720 --> 1:08:48.879 that's what I was into. I was into the blues, 1:08:49.360 --> 1:08:53.160 love Dylan. Um. You know, I got into a lot 1:08:53.200 --> 1:08:55.360 of the people in the village that was that was 1:08:55.479 --> 1:08:58.800 down are, like Tim Harden. Uh. I was watching the 1:08:58.840 --> 1:09:08.439 Loving Spoonful Creation, you know, Um, Richie Havens, John Hammond Jr. 1:09:08.680 --> 1:09:14.560 Playing at the gas light, hanging out there, Paul Butterfield. Yeah. 1:09:14.560 --> 1:09:19.519 So so the Beatles and not to make it sound 1:09:19.600 --> 1:09:21.880 try to like, you know, like I'm putting them, but 1:09:22.439 --> 1:09:25.680 it wasn't for me. I was more. I was more 1:09:25.680 --> 1:09:29.120 in the blues and the folk thing, you know, the okay, 1:09:29.200 --> 1:09:32.280 tell us tell us the story of Abraham Martin and John. 1:09:36.200 --> 1:09:42.120 You know. I was living in Miami. I had moved 1:09:42.120 --> 1:09:47.960 there a geographical cure because I had been drinking and drugging. 1:09:48.920 --> 1:09:52.040 And I was, like I said, I ended up there. 1:09:52.720 --> 1:09:55.879 Frankie Lyman died. I was in Uh. I was in Miami, 1:09:58.200 --> 1:10:05.559 and I I met a guy and UH introduced me 1:10:05.680 --> 1:10:09.719 to a spiritual twelfth Step program and I got into 1:10:09.760 --> 1:10:13.439 that and I man, I never looked back. I got 1:10:13.479 --> 1:10:15.439 on my knees one night. I've never been the same. 1:10:16.040 --> 1:10:19.479 I just I took to it like a I don't know, 1:10:19.640 --> 1:10:24.600 a duck to water, you know. I So I was, 1:10:27.720 --> 1:10:32.479 I was working on myself and uh, working on my 1:10:33.280 --> 1:10:36.800 you know, putting things back together mentally for myself, because 1:10:36.840 --> 1:10:40.000 I had taken drugs and was drinking for quite a while. 1:10:41.160 --> 1:10:49.560 That uh, this song, Uh it comes to me Abraham 1:10:49.600 --> 1:10:55.439 Martin and John Uh three months after I cleaned up, 1:10:55.680 --> 1:11:00.240 you know, after I stopped drinking and drugging, and uh, 1:11:00.400 --> 1:11:02.640 Dick Holla walks in into my house, as you know, 1:11:02.960 --> 1:11:07.200 uh uh he wrote it. He wrote it kind of 1:11:07.240 --> 1:11:10.559 like cutesy dude. You know. I remember, you know, as 1:11:10.640 --> 1:11:12.920 I picked up my guitar, I had a gut string guitar, 1:11:12.960 --> 1:11:15.519 and I kind of arranged it, you know. I put 1:11:15.560 --> 1:11:18.479 it together in a way that uh I thought it 1:11:18.479 --> 1:11:21.320 would be interesting because I was listening to Tim Harden 1:11:21.400 --> 1:11:26.880 back then Kenny Rankin, you know. Uh so I don't know, 1:11:26.920 --> 1:11:29.320 I thought, let me try it like this. I put 1:11:29.320 --> 1:11:34.200 the song together and I recorded it for Lorie Records. 1:11:34.600 --> 1:11:38.000 What when I started playing it, my wife said, Wow, 1:11:38.040 --> 1:11:40.760 that that's the gospel. She said that that sounds like 1:11:41.439 --> 1:11:43.720 you could kill the dream of but you cannot kill 1:11:43.760 --> 1:11:46.599 the dream. You know. It's people like us, we pick 1:11:46.720 --> 1:11:48.800 up on it and carry it further. She said, So 1:11:49.280 --> 1:11:51.200 I'll keep you in my prayers. Do a good job 1:11:51.240 --> 1:11:53.400 with it. I went up to New York, got in 1:11:53.479 --> 1:11:57.519 the studio with the studio was loaded with musicians like 1:11:57.920 --> 1:12:01.320 uh and uh of the song with my gut string 1:12:01.360 --> 1:12:05.519 guitar and who knew because that was you know, in 1:12:05.520 --> 1:12:10.600 that era, that was Jimmy Hendricks, Cream, Eric Clapton, you know, 1:12:12.520 --> 1:12:16.040 stuff like that. I would never think it would even 1:12:16.439 --> 1:12:19.640 you know, I just I just recorded it because it 1:12:19.720 --> 1:12:22.679 was interesting. But I who would think it would become 1:12:23.479 --> 1:12:25.920 like an anthem or you know, a song that would 1:12:25.960 --> 1:12:29.960 you know, go to number one? Okay, you were one 1:12:30.040 --> 1:12:33.600 of the first, if not the first mamestream rocker to 1:12:33.760 --> 1:12:37.160 make Christian music. So he can he tell me about 1:12:37.240 --> 1:12:40.360 that process and how you flipped back and forth from 1:12:40.439 --> 1:12:45.920 Christian to secondary music thereafter. Well, to me, you know, 1:12:46.000 --> 1:12:50.960 it's like to me that uh, I don't even know 1:12:51.000 --> 1:12:54.720 if it makes sense, but uh, you know, if you 1:12:54.800 --> 1:12:57.520 go in a record store, they'll have these different bens 1:12:57.600 --> 1:13:03.559 Christian music, folk music, blues, rock and roll, to me 1:13:03.920 --> 1:13:07.639 when I pick up a guitar, it's Dion music. So 1:13:09.320 --> 1:13:13.040 you know, I wanted to sing a gospel too, umm 1:13:13.560 --> 1:13:17.680 it I you know, I got into gospel music. Uh. 1:13:17.800 --> 1:13:21.120 I was listening to some of the groups and Mighty 1:13:21.160 --> 1:13:25.240 Clouds of Joy, and I heard something. I thought, this 1:13:25.320 --> 1:13:27.640 is great and you know, and I thought, hey, I 1:13:27.680 --> 1:13:31.719 don't mind being identified with Jesus because you know, here's 1:13:31.720 --> 1:13:38.559 a man, god man who cared about the sick, the lonely, 1:13:39.360 --> 1:13:45.000 the broken, the disabled, you know, the poor. I said, 1:13:45.080 --> 1:13:47.320 I don't mind being identified with him. So you know, 1:13:47.479 --> 1:13:50.680 it never bought you know, I I thought that's an 1:13:50.760 --> 1:13:53.200 uplifting thing for me and a good way to go. 1:13:53.360 --> 1:13:57.200 So I wrote a lot of gospel songs, a lot. 1:13:57.280 --> 1:13:59.320 I think I made five albums. It was to me, 1:13:59.360 --> 1:14:04.160 it was very lifting. It was like, uh, you know, 1:14:04.320 --> 1:14:09.439 it just was. It had a lot to do with 1:14:09.560 --> 1:14:14.840 just what was happening inside of me at the time. Okay, Now, 1:14:14.880 --> 1:14:18.240 when you started in the record business, royalties were low, 1:14:18.720 --> 1:14:22.599 they tended not to be paid, and a lot of 1:14:22.640 --> 1:14:26.519 these hit records you didn't write. So how is the 1:14:26.640 --> 1:14:31.679 money worked out over all these decades with me? Yeah? 1:14:33.560 --> 1:14:37.920 You know, I'm blessed. Man, I'm blessed. I I tell 1:14:37.960 --> 1:14:41.120 you a lot of guys don't end up in in 1:14:41.200 --> 1:14:48.240 good shape. But uh, I don't know. I for me, 1:14:49.920 --> 1:14:55.679 uh I reeled in all the publishing that I wrote 1:14:55.720 --> 1:15:02.240 about four hundred songs. So man, mailbox money is good 1:15:02.280 --> 1:15:06.640 for me. I mean it keeps me buoyant, you know it. 1:15:06.880 --> 1:15:12.320 Uh I have no complaints. I uh i, I've never 1:15:12.439 --> 1:15:16.360 been uh I never have to claim bankruptcy or you know, 1:15:16.439 --> 1:15:20.960 I don't know. I was always I don't know, I'm 1:15:20.960 --> 1:15:25.000 a generous guy. But I always like I didn't need 1:15:25.040 --> 1:15:27.280 to be fancy. I didn't need to have a car 1:15:27.360 --> 1:15:30.040 every year or to live. I never had to show 1:15:30.080 --> 1:15:33.040 anybody anything, you know. I never had to be extravagant. 1:15:33.160 --> 1:15:37.599 Like I just wasn't that guy. So I just I 1:15:37.840 --> 1:15:42.000 ate well. I lived well. I I don't feel like 1:15:42.040 --> 1:15:46.120 I'm lacking anything. You know. My wife and I uh 1:15:46.400 --> 1:15:49.679 uh I could help my kids, I could, I could 1:15:49.720 --> 1:15:52.920 do a lot, you know. But I ended up in 1:15:52.960 --> 1:15:57.200 a good place because of a great manager. Dick Fox 1:15:57.760 --> 1:16:03.200 is man. He is a blessing. He was like mother 1:16:03.439 --> 1:16:06.080 Teresa to me. You know. He came into my life 1:16:06.200 --> 1:16:09.840 and I had a good guy by my side and 1:16:10.120 --> 1:16:13.280 who didn't rip me off for you know, because I 1:16:13.320 --> 1:16:22.160 come from the era that you know, clever accounting, you're 1:16:22.160 --> 1:16:25.360 always in the red. I never made any money on albums, never, 1:16:25.720 --> 1:16:28.560 I never. But you still don't get any record royalties. 1:16:29.080 --> 1:16:34.679 But yes, through Sound Exchange, through ASCAP thank god that 1:16:35.000 --> 1:16:39.360 uh uh publishing. You know. I talked to Lou Reed 1:16:39.520 --> 1:16:43.760 long time ago. He said, publishing, that's your retirement plan there. 1:16:43.880 --> 1:16:46.840 So I my wife ran the publishing company for about 1:16:47.040 --> 1:16:51.680 twenty five years. So, uh, to be honest with you, 1:16:51.720 --> 1:16:54.559 I did well, I can do. What was it if you? 1:16:54.560 --> 1:16:57.080 Have you ever gotten a royalty on a record from 1:16:57.080 --> 1:17:07.920 the label? Yeah, that's and that's that's another situation, you know. 1:17:08.320 --> 1:17:11.120 But I'll tell you what you get ripped off. You 1:17:11.160 --> 1:17:15.280 get ripped off, absolutely ripped off. Okay, but I'll tell 1:17:15.320 --> 1:17:21.720 you something, especially from you know, from that decade. You know. 1:17:21.880 --> 1:17:25.400 Now it's a different story. I'm I'm like with much honest, 1:17:25.520 --> 1:17:28.960 more honest than up from people that show you everything. 1:17:29.720 --> 1:17:34.720 But uh, back in in that day, everybody got ripped off. 1:17:34.760 --> 1:17:37.639 I mean, Chuck, Barry bo you talked to all these guys. 1:17:37.640 --> 1:17:42.080 Everybody got you know, I didn't get paid. But somewhere 1:17:42.080 --> 1:17:47.000 along the line, the idea comes to you, let me 1:17:47.200 --> 1:17:50.479 pull back from this. Like if I'm say, take Muddy 1:17:50.520 --> 1:17:55.519 Waters comes out of the fields, he's picking cotton, gets 1:17:55.520 --> 1:17:59.679 his guitar, walks into his studio, you know, Chess records 1:18:00.680 --> 1:18:06.040 and and say it doesn't get paid. Okay. If you 1:18:06.120 --> 1:18:10.280 approach the guy like that and say, hey, listen, money, 1:18:11.720 --> 1:18:15.000 we are going to record you and we're gonna give 1:18:15.080 --> 1:18:20.840 you an international career, the world is gonna know you, 1:18:22.000 --> 1:18:28.360 and you know you're gonna make money because you're gonna 1:18:28.400 --> 1:18:31.200 be the man. You know. Uh, we're gonna give you 1:18:31.280 --> 1:18:33.960 a career. We're gonna give you a sixty year career. 1:18:34.600 --> 1:18:36.360 What do you think of that? Who would who wouldn't, 1:18:36.560 --> 1:18:40.080 who wouldn't sign on? I'd say yeah. So somewhere along 1:18:40.080 --> 1:18:42.800 the line you're pulled back and you look at this 1:18:42.920 --> 1:18:45.599 and you go, well, yeah, I didn't get paid correctly 1:18:45.640 --> 1:18:48.320 in it, But look at they took a shot with me. 1:18:48.760 --> 1:18:51.439 They gave me this and they were like that, and 1:18:51.479 --> 1:18:55.160 you just I mean nothing. It's right, But you walk 1:18:55.200 --> 1:18:57.400 away without a resentment and you don't have to ruin 1:18:57.479 --> 1:18:59.880 your life thinking about people beating you and all that 1:19:00.120 --> 1:19:03.479 stuff and blaming people. You know, you're just so you 1:19:03.479 --> 1:19:05.639 know what I'm saying, You gotta pull back and look 1:19:05.640 --> 1:19:08.320 at the whole picture. Okay. And how did you meet 1:19:08.360 --> 1:19:12.840 hook up with Dick Fox? He was a fan as 1:19:12.840 --> 1:19:17.519 a kid, and when I was in uh he showed 1:19:17.600 --> 1:19:22.960 up when I was going through uh a difficult time, 1:19:24.040 --> 1:19:27.320 uh and he said, I'd I'd love to to manage you. 1:19:27.400 --> 1:19:31.000 This was like in the early nineties and I've been 1:19:31.040 --> 1:19:35.120 with him ever since. He's made my life a living dream. 1:19:35.200 --> 1:19:38.320 Thank you, Dick Fox. Thank you God. I mean, you know, 1:19:38.320 --> 1:19:40.320 when you got a guy like that by your side, 1:19:41.200 --> 1:19:50.320 what it's just, it makes life. It just makes life wonderful. Okay. Now, 1:19:50.360 --> 1:19:52.360 you moved to Miami in sixty ye eight. What do 1:19:52.400 --> 1:19:56.840 we know about Miami? Snowbirds went there, Jackie Gleason moved there, 1:19:57.360 --> 1:20:01.120 but maybe with criteria study. It was in the seventies 1:20:01.680 --> 1:20:05.280 Miami became hot, nothing like it is today. Were you 1:20:05.439 --> 1:20:07.320 out of the loop? It was good for you for 1:20:07.479 --> 1:20:12.800 drugs and alcohol? Was it good for you musically? Well? 1:20:13.840 --> 1:20:19.720 I really was still connected to New York. Uh Uh. 1:20:19.760 --> 1:20:24.520 I moved down just to get away from drugs and alcohol. 1:20:25.120 --> 1:20:27.920 And I found that that I took myself with me. 1:20:28.000 --> 1:20:32.000 But as you'd have it. You know, I met a 1:20:32.040 --> 1:20:35.280 guy and I got cleaning soba and cleaning soba ever 1:20:35.360 --> 1:20:41.320 since April of nineteen, and uh, that's a big thing. 1:20:41.439 --> 1:20:45.840 It kept me healthy and vital and and uh significant, 1:20:46.080 --> 1:20:48.880 you know, like I like I made this latest album, 1:20:48.960 --> 1:20:50.640 Blues with Friends. Do you think I'd go in and 1:20:50.680 --> 1:20:55.120 make an album if I didn't feel uh, you know, significant, 1:20:55.200 --> 1:20:57.400 or I had something to say? What what would be 1:20:57.439 --> 1:21:00.880 the reason to do it? I don't have a reason, 1:21:00.920 --> 1:21:05.639 you know. So I feel very uh alive and well 1:21:05.680 --> 1:21:08.679 and like, uh, actually I have more to say now 1:21:09.120 --> 1:21:12.240 than I did when I was nineteen. I made some 1:21:12.320 --> 1:21:15.360 great records then. But I just you should hear the 1:21:15.400 --> 1:21:17.519 new thing I'm doing. I'm doing. I just went in 1:21:17.600 --> 1:21:20.360 and cutting. I'm cutting a new album. I must be 1:21:20.439 --> 1:21:23.639 under the spout where the glory comes out, because man, 1:21:25.680 --> 1:21:28.800 these songs have been getting downloaded in my head. So 1:21:30.600 --> 1:21:32.920 I'm excited about this new thing I'm doing. You know, 1:21:32.960 --> 1:21:36.880 it's just fun. I love, you know, Bob, I've always 1:21:36.920 --> 1:21:40.840 loved creating something like it wasn't there and all of 1:21:40.920 --> 1:21:44.920 a sudden it's there. The sound these songs they take 1:21:44.960 --> 1:21:48.960 people on a trip. I've always loved that more than 1:21:49.080 --> 1:21:51.400 going on the road and singing and you know, and 1:21:51.479 --> 1:21:55.599 doing that deal. I love. I love singing the people. 1:21:55.880 --> 1:21:58.920 It's just wonderful see the faces. And like I said, 1:21:59.200 --> 1:22:01.639 I've never changed. I love taking people on a trip. 1:22:02.520 --> 1:22:06.120 But let me tell you, man, I love creating. I 1:22:06.160 --> 1:22:09.559 love the idea of creating more than anything. It's just 1:22:10.479 --> 1:22:13.639 that turns me on, that that that floats my boat. 1:22:13.680 --> 1:22:20.080 That's why I'm still passionate. Okay, Uh, You've had ups 1:22:20.080 --> 1:22:22.880 and downs. You talk about alcohol, moving to Miami. Do 1:22:22.960 --> 1:22:29.439 you ever contemplate giving up, giving up, retiring and doing 1:22:29.479 --> 1:22:37.960 something else? Uh? Hey, I don't know. You know, I'll 1:22:38.000 --> 1:22:43.479 be honest with you. I love talking to men about recovery. 1:22:44.240 --> 1:22:46.479 I mean, that'll always be a part of my life 1:22:46.560 --> 1:22:52.160 because someone was there for me and uh showed me 1:22:53.320 --> 1:22:55.800 where the key was to open up the cell that 1:22:55.880 --> 1:22:59.479 I was in of of self bondage, you know. And 1:22:59.800 --> 1:23:03.840 so I just love talking to men because when I 1:23:03.880 --> 1:23:07.519 see the lights come on, they come alive and they 1:23:07.520 --> 1:23:12.760 get free, a freedom of excellence, a genuine freedom, not 1:23:13.000 --> 1:23:17.639 not false. I and their families come together and their 1:23:17.800 --> 1:23:21.479 kids and that turns me on. So I so I 1:23:21.479 --> 1:23:25.360 would never retire from that, and I would never retire. 1:23:25.400 --> 1:23:28.719 I don't think I could ever retire from making music 1:23:29.040 --> 1:23:34.679 some some way, you know. And uh so those two things. Uh, 1:23:34.840 --> 1:23:38.280 Like you know, Bob, I found out a long time ago, 1:23:38.360 --> 1:23:45.679 there's a big difference between success and fulfillment. And uh, 1:23:45.760 --> 1:23:48.720 you know, they're not the same. They're they're different. And 1:23:50.280 --> 1:23:53.400 you know, and you know, you could just read the headline, 1:23:53.439 --> 1:23:55.519 you could just read the tabloids and see people that 1:23:55.600 --> 1:23:59.160 are successful, a lot of them are not very happy. 1:23:59.520 --> 1:24:03.640 So uh but I'm a grateful guy because I you know, 1:24:04.280 --> 1:24:09.720 I found peace and and brotherhood with a lot of 1:24:09.760 --> 1:24:13.840 friends and community and love around me. So I'm I'm 1:24:13.920 --> 1:24:18.960 good to go. Okay, But before you go on every level. 1:24:19.240 --> 1:24:21.360 Your mother lived a hundred and four, let's just say 1:24:21.360 --> 1:24:27.479 you have twenty years left. Anything specific you want to accomplish, 1:24:28.200 --> 1:24:35.519 uh or do with that time? Well, you know, I'll 1:24:35.560 --> 1:24:39.840 tell you something that's crazy. It's crazy because I'm from 1:24:39.840 --> 1:24:48.439 New York, right. But John Coltrane is a quote that 1:24:48.880 --> 1:24:54.040 really hit me. He said, the only real regret in 1:24:54.080 --> 1:25:01.640 life is not to become a saint. Now, you know, 1:25:01.800 --> 1:25:04.640 you would think well, what do I want to accomplish? 1:25:04.680 --> 1:25:07.160 What do I want to do? Well, that's not a 1:25:07.200 --> 1:25:12.960 bad mission statement to try and let go of all 1:25:13.000 --> 1:25:16.040 the things that get in the way of of a 1:25:16.160 --> 1:25:20.439 terrible life, you know, all the addictions and uh you know, 1:25:20.840 --> 1:25:25.839 uh kind of missing the mark and trying to uh 1:25:26.080 --> 1:25:28.680 get older, you know, be being self centered and all that. 1:25:29.479 --> 1:25:33.880 You know, to try and shoot for something like that, 1:25:33.880 --> 1:25:37.960 that would be my mission statement to try. You know, listen, 1:25:38.000 --> 1:25:39.519 I got friends that are looking at me and go 1:25:39.760 --> 1:25:44.599 ain't gonna happen, you know, listen, Uh, you know I'll 1:25:44.600 --> 1:25:46.479 never be you know, none of us are going to 1:25:46.560 --> 1:25:50.200 be perfect, none of us. But it's not a bad 1:25:50.240 --> 1:25:53.760 thing to to shoot for like perfection and and to 1:25:53.880 --> 1:25:57.559 be a good person. I always say I got I'm 1:25:57.560 --> 1:25:59.320 a thinker, you know, I like to think. So I 1:25:59.360 --> 1:26:06.759 always say God without goodness is fanaticism. And goodness without 1:26:06.880 --> 1:26:10.880 God doesn't endure it for very long. It has no legs. 1:26:11.520 --> 1:26:13.920 So I have all these kind of things. I got 1:26:14.000 --> 1:26:18.880 my head, you know that, I that that keeps me 1:26:18.920 --> 1:26:21.000 on track. You know, I got good people around me. 1:26:22.120 --> 1:26:24.400 You know, do you do you play music in the 1:26:24.400 --> 1:26:29.000 house on a regular basis, Either records or playing yourself. Yeah, 1:26:29.160 --> 1:26:36.240 I well, I don't. There's no music blasting in my 1:26:36.320 --> 1:26:38.400 house all the time. But you know, I have your phones. 1:26:38.439 --> 1:26:41.200 I got in the truck and I like to play 1:26:41.200 --> 1:26:43.320 what I like in the truck, and I bought it, 1:26:43.600 --> 1:26:45.920 you know. But but I write in the house, I'm 1:26:45.920 --> 1:26:49.080 always I'm always a you know, in a room with 1:26:49.240 --> 1:26:54.240 my guitar and uh, because I tell you, it's just 1:26:54.360 --> 1:26:57.240 I have no choice. These songs get dropped in your head. Bob. 1:26:58.000 --> 1:27:01.639 You know, it's just it's just something. It's a gift, right, 1:27:01.760 --> 1:27:06.080 It's a gift because it comes out of the wellspring 1:27:06.120 --> 1:27:10.040 of creativity. And I'm under it. I just stand and 1:27:10.080 --> 1:27:12.640 now we are all under it. You're a fountain of 1:27:12.680 --> 1:27:16.679 wisdom and insight, and you have survived unlike Frankie Lyman. 1:27:17.200 --> 1:27:20.160 Thanks so much for taking the time, Dione. Hey, Bob, 1:27:20.240 --> 1:27:23.639 thank you. We gotta work together. You stay well, stay safe, 1:27:23.880 --> 1:27:28.080 stay strong. Thanks for the positive words, because I we've 1:27:28.080 --> 1:27:29.960 both been through it, but I certainly been through it. 1:27:30.200 --> 1:27:32.639 Until next time. This is Bob left text