1 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:11,639 Speaker 1: Y'all, Laura Ingle is with us today. You know her 2 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: as an anchor from News Nation and the host of 3 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 1: the podcast The Ingle Edit. You've seen her boots on 4 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: the ground scene for seeing courthouse to courthouse. You know 5 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 1: her the case update that she's going to bring us today. Y'all, 6 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:31,479 Speaker 1: There's just so much, but I'm just going to go 7 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: ahead and bring her in. Laura Ingle, how are you, honey? 8 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:38,159 Speaker 2: Hello, Cheryl, thank you so much for having me. 9 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 1: Of course, are you kidding? 10 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 2: You know? This has been quite the wild kickoff to 11 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 2: the new year with the case we're going to talk about, 12 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 2: with the Long Island serial killer and Rex Human. I mean, 13 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:50,520 Speaker 2: we are peddled to the metal. 14 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: It feels like it's almost baffling to me because when 15 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: you think this whole thing started May the first, twenty ten, 16 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 1: when Shannon Gilbert goes missing after making this frantic Now 17 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: when one call that lasted over twenty minutes, I mean, 18 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 1: I don't even know how that's possible. I've never been 19 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: involved with the case that had a nine on one 20 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 1: call that lasted more than just a few minutes. And 21 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: you know, then you fast forward. By December of twenty ten, 22 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:25,639 Speaker 1: we had four bodies near gilgo right there on Long Island, 23 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 1: and I just have to tell everybody. I just want 24 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 1: to remind you I have driven this with Laura Ingle. 25 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: I've driven it by myself, but having her with me, 26 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 1: having somebody that knows that area and that community, it 27 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 1: changes everything for you. Because what I thought I understood 28 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 1: before I got there, I was dead wrong about. I 29 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: thought this whole thing. Number one was much smaller. I 30 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: thought it was much closer to his home. I thought 31 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: the bodies were closer together. When you get out there, 32 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: the first thing that struck me is just how beautiful Laura. 33 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 1: I mean, that area and y'all, I'm just gonna break 34 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 1: in here for a second. I just watch some footage 35 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 1: that Laura's doing for the angle at it where she 36 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 1: walks it, she bikes it, she drives it. Her husband Kenny, 37 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 1: takes video of all of this, and then he utilizes 38 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 1: drone footage. But you start right there at the marina, 39 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: and then you go down the road and then you 40 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 1: go way up with your drone so that people can 41 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: see the distance of that bramble from the street to 42 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: the water. But it's stunning. Everywhere you turn looks like. 43 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:48,919 Speaker 2: A postcard it does, I mean, and that's the whole 44 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 2: story is so tragic of how these victims were recovered 45 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 2: throughout the years, right and this area. We've seen it before, 46 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 2: all of us have watched documentaries, seen clips of you know, 47 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 2: especially going back to when the search was going on 48 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 2: for Shannon Gilbert when it was so cold. But we 49 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 2: went out there during the summer to take another look 50 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:12,919 Speaker 2: and kind of give a reminder of what we're talking 51 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 2: about here, you know, for people to really understand because 52 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 2: so many years have passed since the victims were recovered, 53 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 2: some of them intact, some of them not. And then 54 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 2: over the summer there was a series of memorial benches 55 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:33,079 Speaker 2: that were placed along Ocean Parkway and back then there 56 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 2: was no bike path. Back then there was no border 57 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 2: where you you know, you couldn't pull over, and now 58 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 2: there is. So we went to the Gilgo Beach Inn. 59 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 2: They've been very nice. You know, sometimes they see me 60 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 2: out there in the parking lot talking to a camera 61 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 2: and they know that I'm a reporter, and they've been 62 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 2: they've been cool about us letting us park there. And 63 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 2: that's what we did over the summer, where we parked 64 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 2: our car and then when I realized that there were 65 00:03:56,680 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 2: these memorial benches just to just for people to you know, 66 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 2: we always want to be victims sect and centric in 67 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 2: our reporting, and when we're talking about this case and 68 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 2: how these women were found, and how one man was 69 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 2: found and how a baby was found, these benches were 70 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 2: put in place to honor them. But when I drove 71 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,919 Speaker 2: by them on the Ocean Parkway, I was like, you 72 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 2: can't really get to them. How do you do this? 73 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 2: And there's a bike pass, so I said, the only 74 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 2: way we're going to get there is to bike it. 75 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: Well, and they're beautiful, I mean they're deep, you know, 76 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: I would call it English race in green. And the 77 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 1: plaques are you know, black and brass. I mean, they're beautiful. 78 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: And there is one also for Shannon Gilbert. So a 79 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: lot of people say she's involved, a lot of people 80 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: say she's not. She is involved because if not for her, 81 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 1: the other bodies wouldn't have been recovered when they were. So, 82 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: whether she's part of the Long Island serial killer, whether 83 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 1: she died of hypothermia, or whether she was murdered, she 84 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:01,679 Speaker 1: is a paw part of the story of this case. 85 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: He's part of the fabric for sure. 86 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,239 Speaker 2: Well, and what's really interesting is we've been talking about 87 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 2: this for years, Cheryl and on January thirteenth, rex Huerman's 88 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 2: defense attorney, and we'll talk about the most recent hearing 89 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 2: that Hureerman had in Stuffolk County Court. But at the 90 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,559 Speaker 2: very end of his press conference, which I have linked 91 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 2: to my YouTube channel and you can watch the whole 92 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,280 Speaker 2: thing in full, at the very end, as we were 93 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:27,919 Speaker 2: talking about the omnibus hearing and all the defense motions 94 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 2: that are being filed for a pre trial, he said 95 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 2: at the very end of his presser that he believes 96 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 2: that Shannon Gilbert was in fact murdered and that whoever 97 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 2: murdered Shannon Gilbert murdered the rest of them, but it 98 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,279 Speaker 2: wasn't rex Huerman. And then he walked away, and it 99 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 2: was the first time I had heard him say that, 100 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 2: and all of us thought, Wow, that was an interesting 101 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 2: take from Michael Brown, the defense attorney for rex Huerman. 102 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:56,279 Speaker 2: But he believes that they're connected. 103 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:59,719 Speaker 1: Well, I've always thought Shannon Gilbert was a murder victim. 104 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: I don't know listening to that now, when one call 105 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:06,480 Speaker 1: parts of it, how you would think she wasn't. Now 106 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:11,359 Speaker 1: you have not only been own seen. You have interviewed 107 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 1: the original detective. You were also in court, not standing outside, 108 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,359 Speaker 1: not down the road. You were in court for the 109 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: last hearing where wrecked Huerman was sitting there. What did 110 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 1: you find from that last hearing? 111 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 2: You know, we always watch him come out. He's such 112 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 2: a big man, and we've talked about this before. It's 113 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 2: not just how tall he is, it's just how the 114 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:39,279 Speaker 2: large size of his body. And what always strikes me, 115 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 2: it's always the first thing that I think of when 116 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 2: he comes out of that door, clanking with his cuffs 117 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 2: on behind him or in front of him, depending with 118 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 2: the bailiffs surrounding him, is just that when I look 119 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 2: at him, over six feet tall, over two hundred and 120 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 2: fifty pounds, whatever he is now because his weight has 121 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 2: changed since he's been behind bars. I just keep thinking 122 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 2: about the size of the victims. Most of them were 123 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 2: five feet one hundred pounds, And then I look at 124 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 2: him and I think, my god, if true, what a horrific, 125 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 2: horrific set of circumstances of those people face to face 126 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 2: with him? Number one number two. On this hearing date 127 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 2: January thirteenth, we heard the defense attorney Michael Brown and 128 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 2: Suffolk County District Attorney Ray Tieranny going back and forth 129 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 2: about the omnibus that was filed. This is just the 130 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 2: suppression motion of all these things that the defense wants 131 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 2: to keep out of an upcoming trial for rex Huerman. 132 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 2: And you know, just kind of getting closer to that date. 133 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 2: I mean, this this stack of papers that was filed 134 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 2: by the defense, over one hundred and seventy five pages 135 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 2: I think it was one hundred and seventy six hundred 136 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 2: and seventy eight pages filed, dropped like a Friday dump, 137 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 2: you know, like just this huge omnibus going over all 138 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 2: the things that they want excluded, talking about DNA evidence, 139 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 2: talking about the entire charge with Sandra Castilla, who was 140 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 2: you know, November twenty first, nineteen ninety three is when 141 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 2: she was found. So she is the oldest victim in 142 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 2: the Long Island serial killer case that rex Huerman is 143 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 2: accused of murdering. They say that, and remember there was 144 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:19,559 Speaker 2: this whole fight last year about DNA evidence and about 145 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 2: how that mitochondrial DNA and how all of that genetic 146 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 2: genealogy was being used. There was a whole fight. Is 147 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 2: that going to be allowed? The judge ruled yes, it will. 148 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 2: And there was a hair that was on Sandra Castilla 149 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,079 Speaker 2: and on her shirt, says Michael Brown. That you know 150 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 2: they say, the prosecution says ties rex Hureerman to these murders. 151 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 2: I asked Michael Brown in that press conference after the hearing, 152 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 2: I said, how do you explain it? Did rex Hureman 153 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 2: know Sandra? And he kind of scoffed at me. He said, well, 154 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 2: even if he did, I wouldn't be telling you that 155 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 2: he goes. There's a lot of ways that hair can 156 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 2: be transferred. We hear this all the time from defense attorneys, right, Cheryl, 157 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 2: you know there's a lot if I shake your hand, 158 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 2: if I get it in your car. But when you 159 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:05,680 Speaker 2: think about nineteen ninety three and that there was a 160 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 2: hair from rex Huerman and his first wife, you know, 161 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 2: anything that was in the house at that time that 162 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 2: was found on Central Castilla, they're saying that's not enough 163 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 2: to make a murder or is it? And that's what 164 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:19,439 Speaker 2: we're going to find out when we get to trial. 165 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 1: Well, also, what are the odds that he's got some 166 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 1: type of DNA that connects him to her and he 167 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 1: does with other cases, Because by twenty eleven, we had 168 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: six more remains, so you get to ten pretty quick. 169 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: And I mean, how many loose hairs are you going 170 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: to have on a dead victim? And what did the 171 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: judge say? I mean, is the judge do you think 172 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:47,559 Speaker 1: he's pretty amenable to postponent again? Do you think we're 173 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:49,560 Speaker 1: going to see a conclusion? Do you think this thing 174 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 1: is going. 175 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 2: We've got a couple of court dates on the calendar, 176 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 2: March third and March seventeenth, Saint Patrick's days when Rex 177 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 2: will be back in court again. And that's what March 178 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 2: third day, I've got the suffa county district attorney. We'll 179 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 2: have an opportunity to come back and give a file 180 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 2: and give their response to what was just filed. And 181 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 2: then on March seventeenth, everybody is expected to be back 182 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 2: in court. But what was interesting and what made headlines 183 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 2: about this court hearing that we're talking about that took 184 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 2: place on January thirteenth, twenty twenty six, is the judge. 185 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 2: You know, everything gets wrapped up, they put the next 186 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 2: dates on the calendar. We're all kind of takeing our notes, 187 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden, Judge Mazzy says, this 188 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 2: case is going to trial. Right after labor day, come 189 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 2: hell or high water, and was like, whoa, yeah, okay, 190 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 2: you know, so he's he's drawing a line in the sand. 191 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 2: Did he seunt? He didn't yell it. He just said 192 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 2: it very loudly and a declarative mode. But it was 193 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 2: kind of the first time we've heard. First of all, 194 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:55,679 Speaker 2: you know, a date. Okay, so we're talking about September. Fine, 195 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 2: finally we have something to put a bullseye on the 196 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 2: calendar with. Will we get there. We'll have to wait 197 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 2: and see, but that is, you know, he's saying that 198 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 2: this case is going to trial this year. Basically the 199 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 2: moment after a labor day occurs is when he wants 200 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 2: to see it on the calendar. All of this expected 201 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 2: to be discussed when we go back to court March third, 202 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:19,960 Speaker 2: March seventeenth or what was crazy Cheryl the other day 203 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:22,679 Speaker 2: and our friend joe Jaqueline is the one who noticed 204 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 2: at first on Webcrims rex Huerman's name appeared on the 205 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:30,680 Speaker 2: court calendar out of nowhere for January twenty eighth, and 206 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 2: it was like, excuse me that he's not supposed to 207 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 2: be back in court until March third, What is this? 208 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 2: So all of us that cover the case started making 209 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:43,839 Speaker 2: phone calls to Michael Brown, to Tyranny's office, and then 210 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 2: I was like, wait, let's call the PIO at the 211 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:48,680 Speaker 2: Suffolk County Court. So I got on the phone with him. 212 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 2: Thankfully I got him on the phone. It always goes 213 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 2: to voicemail, but on that day I got him and 214 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 2: he said, let me call you back and let me 215 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 2: find out what this is. I said, no, no, I 216 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 2: need you put me on hold so that you can 217 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,679 Speaker 2: call the court clerk. I'm not going anywhere until I 218 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 2: find out what's going on. Because my heart started beating 219 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 2: fast because I thought, oh, my goodness, is this it? 220 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:11,079 Speaker 2: Because we have been hearing behind the scenes not confirmed. 221 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 2: You know, everybody's been rumbling that there could be some 222 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 2: kind of a plea deal. Is this case even really 223 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 2: going to go to trial? And that's what where my 224 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 2: mind was going. Sure, wait, is this is? What is this? 225 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 2: You know this We're not supposed to be in court 226 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 2: until March. So, long story short, he calls the court clerk. 227 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:32,319 Speaker 2: There was some kind of an automatic It just populated, 228 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:36,559 Speaker 2: they said, unexpectedly. They took it down. No, that was 229 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 2: a mistake, they said, don't call it a mistake. It 230 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 2: wasn't really a mistake. It was just this a court 231 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 2: auto generated date that was, you know, popped up. They 232 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 2: took it down. He's no longer on the court calendar. 233 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 2: But it was a moment in time where we thought, WHOA, 234 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 2: what's going on? But it was a false alarm. We'll 235 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 2: just say, well, I'll tell you. 236 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: I mean, I've been very vocal with you privately, and 237 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: I'll say it now. I don't think it's going to 238 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 1: go to trial. I think he will take a plea 239 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 1: if it's offered, and there's a lot of reasons for it. 240 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:09,200 Speaker 1: But if you look even historically, BTK took a plea, 241 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 1: the Happy Face Killer took a plea. And by the 242 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: way they've communicated their pen pals okay, And I think 243 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 1: there's if you look at Coburger, they want to save face. 244 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 1: They want to keep some things private. They don't want 245 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:30,320 Speaker 1: everything out. It's one thing if other inmates think, oh man, 246 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:34,439 Speaker 1: he's crazy. He's killed eleven women, it's different. If you've 247 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 1: killed thirty six, it's different. If you've killed a baby, 248 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: it's different. It's going to change things for them on 249 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:42,199 Speaker 1: the inside. 250 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 2: You know, that's a good question. That I have for 251 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:48,439 Speaker 2: you with all of your work in law enforcement, obviously 252 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 2: it makes a difference. But if you're being charged with 253 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:55,199 Speaker 2: seven or ten or eleven or thirty six or whatever 254 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 2: the case may be, in terms of the time you're 255 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 2: going to serve, I guess the time doesn't matter. But 256 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 2: what you're saying is they don't want people to know 257 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 2: what they did exactly correct. 258 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:08,679 Speaker 1: The time doesn't matter at all. But even in the prison, 259 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 1: you start hurting babies, that's a different ballgame. 260 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 2: It just deils. And here's the thing. So you and 261 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 2: I and everybody who's been following this case closely, watching 262 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 2: the Tanya Jackson Tatiana Diyke's case, that of Peaches. You 263 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 2: and I have been to Hempstead Lake State Park. Episode 264 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 2: coming soon, I promised this year, this spring, this winter, 265 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 2: you'll see Cheryl and I walking around Hempstead Lake State Park. 266 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 2: We have been there, We have walked the path together. 267 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 2: And that is one of the biggest question marks of 268 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 2: this linked case. You know, Shannon Gilbert is one thing, 269 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 2: and then Peaches and the baby is another. So in 270 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 2: December December eighteenth, twenty twenty five, out of the blue, 271 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 2: you were one of my first calls. I called you, 272 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 2: I called Joe Jackelone. I was like, oh my gosh, 273 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 2: somebody has been arrest in the murder of Tanya Jackson. 274 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 2: You and I haven't spoken on Mike since that happened. 275 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 2: And it was this wild out of nowhere, out of 276 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 2: the blue. Everybody's getting ready for the holidays, and all 277 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 2: of a sudden boom, this news drops and arrest after 278 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 2: all these years, since nineteen ninety seven when her torso 279 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 2: was found at Hempstead Lake State Park, where Cheryl and 280 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 2: I have walked the walk together to see where Peaches 281 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 2: was originally found the first part of her Andrew Dykes, 282 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 2: and the minute we all saw you too, the minute 283 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 2: we saw Dikes on that press release, were like, oh my, 284 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 2: you know Tatiana Diykes, it's the father. But when I 285 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 2: got to the court hearing in January and I asked 286 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 2: Ray Tierney, I said, and Michael Brown, I said, where's 287 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 2: the charges for the baby? So he's been charged with 288 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 2: the murder of Tanya Jackson Peaches, but not Tatiana. And 289 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 2: Ray Tierney told me in the press conference there will 290 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 2: not be any charges. The baby was found in Zuffolk 291 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 2: County and Donnelly's office in Nassau County says, right now, 292 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 2: there are no charges for the baby, and we're all 293 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 2: going why, I mean, there has to be something. I 294 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 2: guess maybe there's not. I mean, what do you think 295 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 2: of that? 296 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 1: The only thing that I can ascertain is they can't 297 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 1: prove what you know and what you can prove are 298 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: not the same thing. So let's just say the baby 299 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 1: was too decomposed, or they can't determine an actual time 300 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 1: of death. So maybe a defense attorney's going to say, well, 301 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 1: the mother killed her, and the grandfather snapped and killed 302 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 1: the mother, or you know, the baby died of natural causes, 303 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 1: the mom couldn't take it and she killed herself. I mean, 304 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: she didn't cut herself at half, clearly. But I'm just 305 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: saying whatever a defense attorney's going to come up with. 306 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: But if we don't know a time of death, we 307 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 1: don't know a cause of death, it's hard to put 308 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:04,879 Speaker 1: a charged together when you don't have evidence and things 309 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 1: that you can say for sure happened. 310 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, when you think about it, when I keep seeing 311 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 2: her face, Katana two. 312 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 1: Years old, such a doll baby. 313 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and there's been new pictures you know, we 314 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 2: had that little baby picture, but now there's a new 315 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 2: image of this child that was released after he was arrested. 316 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 2: Or she's standing. It looks like she's standing in a kitchen, 317 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 2: and she looks much older. You really get a sense 318 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 2: of the size that you know she's she's beyond the 319 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:34,440 Speaker 2: holding of the baby. She's standing there, probably just learning 320 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:37,880 Speaker 2: to walk. And it's just so heartbreaking to think this 321 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,919 Speaker 2: child that was thrown in the bramble and you have 322 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 2: you and I have talked about this a lot, you know, 323 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 2: so close to Valerie Mack and that's what's so wild. 324 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:52,440 Speaker 1: You would have a hard time convince me that if 325 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 1: the killer is a different killer, that he didn't have 326 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:59,239 Speaker 1: some type of information about other victims, whether from the 327 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 1: news or so. It's just odd. But again, remember the 328 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 1: first time I was there was Charlene. You know, we 329 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 1: had people on the beach surfers going, oh, yeah, this 330 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:11,400 Speaker 1: is a dumping ground, Like there's dead bodies all over 331 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: the place, And I'm like, this is so strange because 332 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 1: most of the time somebody is going to use something 333 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 1: as a dumping site. Number One, they feel completely comfortable there. 334 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:24,239 Speaker 1: They know there's no cameras, they know there's not going 335 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:27,200 Speaker 1: to be people after dark. They know they can see 336 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: from a long way away if somebody is coming. In 337 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: that regard, it's the perfect dumping ground because anywhere you 338 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: are on the side of the road, sometimes you know, 339 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 1: the bramble obstructs views from the RV park or a boat. 340 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 1: Sometimes the trees will obstruct somebody on the other side 341 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:48,680 Speaker 1: of the road. You can see two miles down the 342 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 1: road if somebody's coming to get in your car and 343 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:56,199 Speaker 1: drive off or hide or whatever. But it's still a 344 00:18:56,359 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 1: very narrow piece of land. It's not like this vast 345 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: open area where you could place somebody and nobody's ever 346 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: going to see them. There's just really not a lot 347 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:14,880 Speaker 1: of woods and dance area. I mean, I was shocked 348 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:17,399 Speaker 1: by it, Like where one of the bodies was put 349 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:22,119 Speaker 1: near the marina. I mean, Laura, you're not talking about 350 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 1: eight feet of dirt. No, no. 351 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:29,160 Speaker 2: And when you're talking about the distance between let's see, 352 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:31,440 Speaker 2: I've got the map in front of me. When you're 353 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 2: talking about the distance between Valerie Mac and the child, 354 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:39,160 Speaker 2: it is, you know, zero point zero four miles. It's 355 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 2: extremely close. The dots overlay each other on the map 356 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,239 Speaker 2: from the Suffolk County Police crime scene mapping. So the 357 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 2: dots aren't you know that they are literally laying over 358 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 2: each other. And we go back to the dates, and 359 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:56,440 Speaker 2: you know, Tanya Jackson is found in nineteen ninety seven. 360 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 2: The first part of her June twenty eighth, nineteen ninety seven, 361 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 2: were you, I were Cheryl. And then it wasn't until 362 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:08,120 Speaker 2: April eleventh, twenty eleven, that Tanya Peach's extremities were found 363 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 2: in Tatiana. The baby was found in Suffolk County. Valerie Mac, 364 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 2: of which the child is right next to, went missing 365 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:21,159 Speaker 2: in the spring summer of two thousand, So we're talking 366 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 2: about three years, right, We're talking about Tanya and Tatiana 367 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 2: presumably missing together in ninety seven, and then Valerie Mac 368 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 2: being found in two thousand, right next to the child. 369 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 1: You know, when you ask yourself, why would the killer 370 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: separate mother and child? Was that on purpose because they 371 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 1: didn't understand DNA and thought they would never be linked. 372 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 1: If one was found, the other one wouldn't be Is 373 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: it because you know, the Long Island serial killer had 374 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:58,359 Speaker 1: heard about Peaches? I don't know, It's just odd. The 375 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:02,440 Speaker 1: whole thing is odd to me. And you know, any time. 376 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 1: To me, you've got so many questions that are valid. 377 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:09,119 Speaker 1: I mean, this isn't just curiosity. This to me is 378 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,400 Speaker 1: part of the timeline. It's part of the inner work 379 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:17,400 Speaker 1: and of where somebody was taken, where they were possibly dismembered, 380 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,920 Speaker 1: and then where they were put as a dumping ground. 381 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,160 Speaker 1: Like a lot of these things, we still don't know 382 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:24,680 Speaker 1: where the middle part occurred. 383 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:28,680 Speaker 2: We don't know, right, No, we don't. And that's that's 384 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 2: the thing. If we get to whether it's it's Peaches 385 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 2: and Andrew Dykes. I've been in court too in Nassau 386 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:37,199 Speaker 2: County to see Andrew Dykes myself, and you know he 387 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:40,360 Speaker 2: has come in. He's now got he's got a public defender. 388 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 2: He's got the last court hearing that we had for 389 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 2: him just a couple of weeks ago in the beginning 390 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:49,159 Speaker 2: of twenty twenty six, his defense attorney asked for a 391 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:53,040 Speaker 2: second seat of council because of the DNA evidence, the 392 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 2: age of the case, and the complexities of the crime. 393 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 2: So those were the three things that this public defender, 394 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 2: who's been very nice to me on the phone, said, 395 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 2: I'm going to need an extra set of eyes. You know, 396 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:05,639 Speaker 2: we're going to need some more help here, because this 397 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 2: is a very old case that's very complicated. 398 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 1: It is complicated, and it gets more complicated when you 399 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,920 Speaker 1: watch Rex Huerman and you hear Willie had Burner phones, 400 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: he had what is it, Lara four hundred devices. I mean, 401 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 1: that's not even a number that's going to make sense 402 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: to anybody. And then the things that we know that 403 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 1: they took from the house, there's things that we don't know. 404 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 1: We know about all the weapons, not just guns, but 405 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: other things. I mean, two hundred and seventy nine in 406 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 1: a vault that's locked, I mean, I don't know. And 407 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 1: then his wife says she was completely blindsided. Listen, she 408 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 1: might have been, but I go back to the very 409 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,359 Speaker 1: first thing that I ever zeroed in on, and that 410 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,639 Speaker 1: was the belt that was found. That belt is old. 411 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 1: You can tell it. It's got initials on it. There 412 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: ain't no way she wasn't familiar with that belt. I 413 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: just don't believe that. I think she had to have 414 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 1: seen it. I think that she knew that. You know, hey, 415 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,199 Speaker 1: this is a pretty small house. But he has built 416 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,919 Speaker 1: a vault and I'm not allowed to go in it. 417 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 1: And listen, whatever works in your marriage is great, anybody 418 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: listening to me. I ain't given marriage advice to nobody, 419 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:26,159 Speaker 1: but I am saying, if a man that I supposedly 420 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 1: love and trust has built a room that is locked 421 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,399 Speaker 1: and I can't go in it, I shouldn't be blindsided 422 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: by anything. If he'll keep it from you, then he's 423 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: keeping it from everybody else. Why why would you do that? 424 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:42,959 Speaker 2: Well, if you've been to the house, and I know 425 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:44,640 Speaker 2: I believe that you have, I mean we've. 426 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, not buy that house? 427 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 2: Yeah that go now, Yeah, she wouldn't go to the door. 428 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 2: I've been by the house several times. I was there 429 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 2: for the second search of the house. I was there 430 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:55,959 Speaker 2: all night when they were going in and out with 431 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,679 Speaker 2: all of those vans and evidence vans and you know, 432 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 2: the the white suits and the boxes and the bags. 433 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 2: And I stood there and I watched, and they took 434 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 2: out a lot of stuff. And we've talked about the 435 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 2: house and the shape that it was in compared to 436 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:13,199 Speaker 2: all the other beautiful houses on that block. And you 437 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,439 Speaker 2: think about the basement. We're going to hear a lot 438 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 2: about the basement. The basement is I think allegedly where 439 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,439 Speaker 2: we're talking about a lot of this happening, and he 440 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 2: had a quote workshop, so if that was his private 441 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,639 Speaker 2: workshop that he didn't want anybody down there. And then remember, 442 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,880 Speaker 2: this is his childhood home. That's the other thing. It's 443 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 2: his childhood home in Massapequa Park. This is where he 444 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 2: grew up. This is where the friends that have spoken 445 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 2: the friends he had that have spoken out said that 446 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 2: he had a pretty rough relationship with his father. And 447 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 2: so if we're talking about his dad's belt or his 448 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 2: grandfather's belt, he had kept apparently some of the clothes 449 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 2: of his parents down in the basement. So you know, 450 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 2: those are the reports that we have, So all of 451 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 2: it tracks. The other thing I've been really interested into. 452 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,400 Speaker 2: We've talked a lot about the planning document that prosecutors 453 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:06,919 Speaker 2: investigators were able to pull from his computer that he 454 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,439 Speaker 2: thought he deleted. And then we see that he is 455 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,920 Speaker 2: an avid reader of John Douglas and the mind Hunter 456 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:19,479 Speaker 2: books and the planning and how to follow this along. 457 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 2: That's I think another interesting component of all of this 458 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:24,919 Speaker 2: is his fascination with John Douglas. 459 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,919 Speaker 1: Sure, but if you're going to get away with something 460 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: for decade after decade after decade, then you're going to 461 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 1: study that and you're going to adopt some of it. 462 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:38,679 Speaker 1: And again he had a list of traffic light cameras 463 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:43,879 Speaker 1: between his house and the dump sides that to me 464 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,959 Speaker 1: is extraordinarily talent. So you're going to know how to 465 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 1: traverse this area and not hit on one traffic camera, 466 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:53,919 Speaker 1: not possibly run a red light and get a ticket. 467 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 1: Nothing is going to show that you were there on 468 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:58,400 Speaker 1: a certain date at a certain time. 469 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,359 Speaker 2: If anybody has. It's really really rough to read through 470 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 2: the planning document. It's it's awful stuff. One of the 471 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 2: boxes that's been highlighted is you know this is Remember 472 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 2: this is Rex Hureman's computer. This is a planning document 473 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 2: that he made for himself. So you're making you know 474 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:17,880 Speaker 2: how you make in your notes file, Remember to pick 475 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,439 Speaker 2: up milk and bread at the grocery store. This is 476 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:24,040 Speaker 2: the type of note that he left for himself. Things 477 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:28,439 Speaker 2: to remember sound travels. Control the amount of air in 478 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 2: and out to control the noise being made. Get sleep 479 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:37,640 Speaker 2: before hunt. Too tired creates problems. Hit harder. Too many 480 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,240 Speaker 2: hits to take down, consider a hit to the face 481 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:45,159 Speaker 2: or neck next time for takedown. More sleep and noise 482 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 2: control equals more playtime. Use push pins to hang drop 483 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:53,639 Speaker 2: cloths from sealing, not tape, and lastly, use heavy rope 484 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 2: for neck light. Rope broke under stress of being tightened. 485 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,199 Speaker 2: That's what we're talking talking about. That's what investigators have. 486 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 2: That's what Michael Brown is going to have to fight 487 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,919 Speaker 2: against as we continue to see how this is going 488 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 2: to be prosecuted. 489 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: And that's just some of the things that we know 490 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: are coming. Everybody knows this, I think, But you know, 491 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace used to be my prosecutor when I was 492 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,920 Speaker 1: assigned to the Major Case Division. One thing she did 493 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:25,400 Speaker 1: better than anybody else. She would put the defendant's own 494 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 1: words on poster board and just leave them up for 495 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 1: the jury to see. So you're telling me that not 496 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,640 Speaker 1: only did he think about it, but he made himself 497 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,159 Speaker 1: a note to be sure. Hey, however, I got to 498 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 1: get the air out of their lungs. I got to 499 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 1: do it so they can't scream. And I'm going to 500 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,200 Speaker 1: go ahead and do a takedown much faster by punch 501 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 1: them in the face of the throat hunting. The faster 502 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 1: I can do that is more playtime, which for him, 503 00:27:54,600 --> 00:28:00,960 Speaker 1: we know is torture. It's murder, it's sexual assault, it's dismembering. 504 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:05,199 Speaker 1: I mean, good Lord, Laura, I would put that on 505 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: a poster board and they would have to stare at 506 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 1: it every day. 507 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 2: And something you just said hit me because it was 508 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 2: talking about the time for hunting and playtime. Is he's 509 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 2: got a window, allegedly, and according to prosecutors, he's got 510 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 2: a window the time that his wife Asa and his 511 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,440 Speaker 2: daughter Victoria and the step son are out of town 512 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 2: when he sent them away, or when they went away 513 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 2: to Iceland and Vegas, or not Vegas but Atlantic City. 514 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,159 Speaker 2: But all the times that they went away, those are 515 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 2: the times that overlay when you do the calendar, the 516 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 2: times that some of these victims went missing compared to 517 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 2: the times that she was out of town, they line up. 518 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 2: So he knows that he's got a window of time, 519 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 2: according to these documents, that he's got to get his 520 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 2: work done for me. 521 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 1: The four hundred devices, the seven burner phones, I mean, 522 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 1: how many phones can you charge? How many can you 523 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:05,680 Speaker 1: have in your pockets? And there's no way, in my opinion, 524 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,680 Speaker 1: all of that was kept from her the brother. The 525 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 1: brother had to know that belt. You got a lot 526 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,240 Speaker 1: of people not telling what they knew when they knew it. 527 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: Or first suspected because she said she was blindsided, couldn't 528 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 1: believe what he was being accused of. But she show 529 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 1: divorced him quick which I think was pre planned. I've 530 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 1: said it from the beginning. There's no way she heard 531 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 1: such a horrible accusation, got it together quick enough to 532 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 1: get an attorney to divorce him, to keep the house 533 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: and everything else, to then turn around and say, oh, 534 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 1: you know, seeing him in jail, I fell in love 535 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 1: with him all over again. Our first visit in jail 536 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 1: was like our first date. Okay, either you divorced him 537 00:29:55,880 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 1: or you're supporting him. Can't be both. So I again 538 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,440 Speaker 1: from the beginning, said that divorce was a stunt. It 539 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:04,960 Speaker 1: was a stunt to be able to not have to 540 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 1: pay bills. Did he owed it was a way to 541 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 1: keep the house, keep things rolling, which I think again 542 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 1: was set in motion before he was ever arrested. 543 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 2: Or playing devil's advocate. Is it possible that he is 544 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 2: arrested and she gets an attorney right at well, listen, 545 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 2: they went to our house right and said, we've got 546 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:28,360 Speaker 2: you know, your husband's been arrested in midtown. But is 547 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 2: there a chance that somebody and I don't know if 548 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 2: it was Bob Macedonia, But is there a chance that 549 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 2: somebody said, get divorced, this is going to be bad. 550 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 2: Protect your eyests and they did it quickly. 551 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, but he had to agree to that too, and 552 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 1: think about him if she really did not support him 553 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: by divorcing her, he literally has nothing. Nobody's going to 554 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,240 Speaker 1: contact a lawyer for him, nobody's going to put any 555 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 1: money on his books in the prison. He's cutting his lifeline. Wow. 556 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I don't know if we're going to 557 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 2: get to labor day. 558 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 1: We're not going to get to labor day if I 559 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: had to put money somewhere. Right now, he's not going 560 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 1: to let this thing go to trial. He's going to 561 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 1: protect his children the best he can. She clearly still 562 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 1: supports him. I think he's going to try to protect 563 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,160 Speaker 1: her and he's going to try to protect himself. He 564 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 1: does not want people to know exactly what he did 565 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 1: to the victims. 566 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 2: But isn't it interesting too that with the arrest of 567 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 2: Andrew Dykes for the murder of Tanya Jackson, Peaches and 568 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 2: baby dough Tatiana Diykes. I asked Rex Hyerman's attorney, Michael Brown, 569 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 2: in that press conference, I said, how does this change 570 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 2: your defense? He said, well, we've said all along that 571 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 2: our client didn't do it, and now you've got you know, 572 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,720 Speaker 2: you've got I gotta doubt. Yeah, And Rex Huerlman was 573 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 2: never charged, has never been. He's long been suspected. I 574 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 2: mean since his arrest. Everybody said, well, if he did 575 00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,560 Speaker 2: the rest, he did these, especially with the proximity as 576 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 2: you of all he's pointed out of Tatiana and Valerie 577 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 2: mac But you know, how does that he goes, Well, 578 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:07,280 Speaker 2: this is a huge hop. I mean, Bittrov is a 579 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 2: huge help. Now we've got James Burke back in the conversation, 580 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 2: who just had a court appearance for the Lewde Act 581 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 2: he was accused of in a park. And then his 582 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 2: attorney came out of that court hearing and said, my client, 583 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 2: James Burke, the former Suffolk County and Police commissioner, is 584 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 2: is going to cooperate. It will help cooperate with the prosecution. 585 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 2: He's a cop at heart, he's. 586 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 1: Something at heart. But I'm gonna try to keep my 587 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 1: show a little longer. All right, Look, here's the bottom 588 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 1: line for me, dikes hair what And on the other victims. 589 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 1: Dikes didn't have a burner phone that moved in concert 590 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,280 Speaker 1: with a victim's phone. Dikes think the voice they heard 591 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 1: when they got called and told awful things about their 592 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 1: loved one. He didn't have seven cell phones. He didn't 593 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:02,680 Speaker 1: go to other places like Las Vegas where there may 594 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 1: be other victims. So to me, great, you can say 595 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 1: there's reasonable doubt because one person killed somebody else with 596 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 1: a child and dump them. That's one. But I think 597 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 1: another reason he don't want to go to trial. There's 598 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 1: more than ten. And he's never been in it for 599 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 1: the fame. He didn't give himself a moniker. He didn't 600 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 1: talk police. He's not trying to write a book. He 601 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:32,720 Speaker 1: wants this over with. 602 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 2: And possibly to get to a prison with better food, 603 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:40,880 Speaker 2: a better job. You know, we'll have to wait and see. 604 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,200 Speaker 1: Well, I appreciate all your work. And again, y'all check 605 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 1: out the Angle edit. She's got video. She narrates the 606 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 1: whole thing. She tells you exactly where she is, what 607 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 1: she's seeing. You can see it for yourself in a 608 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 1: way that you can't in most other media because she 609 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 1: is boots on on the ground and she's got the drone. 610 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:04,719 Speaker 1: I mean, Kenny does a beautiful job of showing you 611 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:08,759 Speaker 1: exactly what this whole area looks like. So check out 612 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,840 Speaker 1: the angle at it and Laura, I appreciate you. Happy 613 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:14,919 Speaker 1: New Year, and we will be hanging out again soon 614 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 1: once we know what's happening in September. 615 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,000 Speaker 2: Oh yes, I'll see you soon. Cheryl, thank you very 616 00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 2: much for having you on the program again. I really 617 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:23,600 Speaker 2: appreciate it, y'all. 618 00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:25,319 Speaker 1: I'm going to end Zone seven the way that I 619 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:31,040 Speaker 1: always do with a quote. He's my hero, Rex hu 620 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:36,560 Speaker 1: Orman's ex wife. I'm Cheryl mccollumn, and this is Zone seven.