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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: About an hour outside of Paris, at a place called

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Speaker 2: La Valet Village, you can get a really good deal

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Speaker 2: on Gucci on TikTok. You can hear how excited people

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Speaker 2: are about these discounts.

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Speaker 3: You love designer shopping, and you're in Paris anytime soon,

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Speaker 3: you need to come to the designer outlets. So we're

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Speaker 3: starting off with this beautiful green bag which was going

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Speaker 3: for and fifty normally. Now at the outlet, one thousand,

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Speaker 3: five hundred.

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Speaker 4: Wallet carrying bag Gucci luggis fifteen euros.

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Speaker 2: Crazy Angelina Rausquette covers luxury brands from Bloomberg's Paris bureau.

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Speaker 2: She recently visited this outlet for a story about Gucci.

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Speaker 3: First of all, there were a lot of traffic, a

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Speaker 3: lot of customers inside the outlets, and they were really

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Speaker 3: trying to get rid of the previous collections. So I

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Speaker 3: could see, for instance, yellow pumps with the Gucci the

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Speaker 3: double G monogram, but also with the logo of Adidas

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Speaker 3: superimposed on it. They were like seventy five percent off,

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Speaker 3: you know, really flamboyant jackets.

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Speaker 2: These mega discounts point to two things. A Gucci is

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Speaker 2: available to everyone, and b there's enough to go around.

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Speaker 2: For a luxury brand like Gucci, that's a huge problem

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Speaker 2: because if anyone can have Gucci, it's not much of

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Speaker 2: a luxury, is it.

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Speaker 3: You can try to sell your stuff everywhere and have

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Speaker 3: everybody wearing a Gucci cap or a Gucci T shirt.

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Speaker 3: At the end of the day, that's not what you want.

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Speaker 3: You want to make sure that people desire your brands,

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Speaker 3: and at some point there's splurge on a two thousand

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Speaker 3: euro three thousand euro five thousand year handbag.

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Speaker 2: But Gucci has done something different. It's tried to find

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Speaker 2: the intersection of luxury and fashion. Jumping on the latest

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Speaker 2: trends is fickle, and Angelina says the strategy has made

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Speaker 2: Gucci vulnerable to the changing demands of consumers at a

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Speaker 2: time when luxury shopping is already down across the board.

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Speaker 3: Why we know is that the whole market there's a slowdown,

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Speaker 3: So obviously if you're in a weaker position like Gucci,

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Speaker 3: it's going to be even trickier.

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Speaker 2: Figures released by Gucci's parent company, Caring on Tuesday showed

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Speaker 2: an eighteen percent drop in Gucci's comparable revenue in the

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Speaker 2: first quarter. Today, on the show Gucci's Popularity Problem, how

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Speaker 2: caring strategy has put the brand in a tough spot,

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Speaker 2: and what's at stake for the future of the fashion house.

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Speaker 2: This is the big take from Bloomberg. I'm Janet Paskin.

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Speaker 2: While Gucci has been through many phases as a brand,

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Speaker 2: it hit a bright spot in the nineteen nineties when

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Speaker 2: it brought on an American named Tom Ford.

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Speaker 3: So saxy. There comes this Texas designer, and all of

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Speaker 3: a sudden, he turned Gucci into something very desirable by

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Speaker 3: basically putting out these collections that were empowering to women,

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Speaker 3: to men, sexy. They were elegant, you know, siletos, cleavage.

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Speaker 2: Ford's sexy power style immediately made waves, and he and

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Speaker 2: Gucci's CEO at the time, Domenico de Sole, were praised

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Speaker 2: for breathing new life into the one hundred year old brand.

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Speaker 3: They pretty much transformed it, turning Gucci from a state

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Speaker 3: and underperforming Italian brand known for its horse bed loafers

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Speaker 3: into a fashion forward label whose products Hollywood embraced with gusto.

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Speaker 3: For instance, Madonna famously wore a torquoise stilplouse at an

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Speaker 3: Award ceremony in nineteen ninety five, and Gwyneth Paltrow also

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Speaker 3: became a fan. She wore a red velvet suit, for instance.

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Speaker 3: And Tom and Dom, as the pair were known, then

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Speaker 3: brought back who from the break with sales.

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Speaker 2: Sorry, Gucci was suddenly a hot commodity.

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Speaker 3: So saxy see.

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Speaker 2: So hot in fact, that the brand became the center

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Speaker 2: of a power struggle between two very rich, very ambitious men.

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Speaker 1: Bernard Arnaut, who was the luxury king at the time

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Speaker 1: and his company LVMH owned Louis Wouiton and Moiet Tennessee Champagne,

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Speaker 1: and Arnault has set his sights on Gucci and he

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Speaker 1: wanted to take it over and have it for himself.

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Speaker 2: That's Bloomberg. Sarah Forden. She wrote House of Gucci, you know,

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Speaker 2: the book that became the movie, the one with Lady

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Speaker 2: Gaga and Adam Driver, and Sarah says Arnault was not

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Speaker 2: the only interested party. Francoispinaut, the founder of the company

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Speaker 2: that's now called Caring, also wanted Gucci, and after a

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Speaker 2: pitched public battle for control of the brand, Francois Pinaut

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Speaker 2: came out on top.

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Speaker 1: They ended up signing an agreement with franc Finot, who

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Speaker 1: was the white knight who came in and sort of

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Speaker 1: slipped Gucci out from under the grasp of Bernard Arnaut.

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Speaker 2: With a new parent company and Tom Ford holding the reins,

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Speaker 2: Gucci continued to soar, but in two thousand and four

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Speaker 2: it lost the star team of Tom and Tom. They

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Speaker 2: quit in a power struggle with the Pinot family. In

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Speaker 2: two thousand and five, a new CEO took over at

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Speaker 2: Gucci's parent company, now known as Caring, Francois Ari Pinot,

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Speaker 2: the son of the company's founder. People call him FHP.

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Speaker 2: Under FHP, Gucci named a new creative director, Frida Giannini.

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Speaker 2: She was at the brand for more than ten years,

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Speaker 2: but critics never really loved her designs and neither did consumers.

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Speaker 1: And that's when he brought in Alessandro Michaele, who ended

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Speaker 1: up being a huge phenomenon for Gucci. And literally Alissandro

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Speaker 1: had something like five days to design his first men's collection,

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Speaker 1: and he pulled it off and it was a hit,

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Speaker 1: and it sort of people had a visceral reaction to it.

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Speaker 2: Mcklly didn't bring back Tom Ford's sexy power aesthetic instead

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Speaker 2: of the low cut body suits and leather. Mikelly's designs

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Speaker 2: had bold, floral patterns neon colors. The ad campaigns featured

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Speaker 2: flowers and feathers and flamingos in the center of the frame.

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Speaker 3: The adjectives that have been used to describe his aesthetics

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Speaker 3: is like bohemian, chek, flamboyant, maximalist.

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Speaker 2: One of his most iconic creations furry slippers.

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Speaker 3: They're called the Princeton slippers. So their leather and you

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Speaker 3: know it's an open ankle, and so you were them

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Speaker 3: as the slippers, but they were furry, and that became

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Speaker 3: really popular.

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Speaker 2: Mcklay also leaned into collaborations with mass market sportswear brands

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Speaker 2: like Adidas and North Face, and suddenly everyone was buying

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Speaker 2: Gucci products.

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Speaker 3: That was the designer that really managed to move the

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Speaker 3: space of four years, you almost triple the size of

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Speaker 3: the brand. This is unprecedented.

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Speaker 2: At this point, Gucci could have taken a page from

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Speaker 2: some of its rivals like Chanelle and Ermez, limiting the

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Speaker 2: amount of Mickel's pieces it made. It could have created

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Speaker 2: waiting lists manufactured scarcity, but instead, outlets which sold Gucci

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Speaker 2: goods at a discount remain part of the company's strategy.

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Speaker 2: Angelina said that hurt the brand.

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Speaker 3: A big problem at Gucci on the business level was

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Speaker 3: the presence of these outlets. Outlets. It accomplishes a function.

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Speaker 3: You know, at some point it's the end of the season,

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Speaker 3: there's some unsold inventory, and then you're going to be

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Speaker 3: basically selling them at a discount in outlets. However, all

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Speaker 3: the most desirable brands, if you think about re Rmez,

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Speaker 3: they don't sell via outlets. It's against their principles because

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Speaker 3: they reckon it devalues, it cheapens the brands in the

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Speaker 3: eyes of the consumer.

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Speaker 2: This is Gucci's problem. It wants to appeal to the

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Speaker 2: masses and be a high end luxury product at the

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Speaker 2: same time a heritage brand whose clothes and bags and

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Speaker 2: shoes become heirlooms, family treasures.

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Speaker 3: The issue with Gucci, as opposed to let's say, more classic,

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Speaker 3: more heritage brands, it was always very as they call it,

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Speaker 3: fashion driven, fashion forward, meaning that they became very trendy,

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Speaker 3: but then a fashion trend. The issue with a fashion

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Speaker 3: trend is that it's a trend. You can surf that

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Speaker 3: wave for a while, but eventually consumers will tire of it,

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Speaker 3: because that's what a trend is, That's what a fad is.

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Speaker 2: But luxury doesn't work that way, and even FHP knows it.

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Speaker 4: All the big brands have the same challenge. How do

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Speaker 4: you remain exclusive and on the same time continue.

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Speaker 2: To grow Here he is talking to Bloomberg back in

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Speaker 2: twenty fourteen.

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Speaker 4: If the growth was based on selling more and more, well,

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Speaker 4: please everyone. But this would be the greatest danger for

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Speaker 4: the brand.

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Speaker 2: So can Gucci turn things around? That's after the break.

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Speaker 2: Gucci's parent company, Caring, has lost about a third of

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Speaker 2: its value in the last few years, while shares at

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Speaker 2: competitors of EMH and Armas have more than doubled. Reversing

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Speaker 2: Gucci's slide and restoring the value of the brand won't

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Speaker 2: be easy. Angelina says it could hurt sales or profit

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Speaker 2: margins or both.

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Speaker 3: They've been saying we're on a turnaround face. They've been saying,

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Speaker 3: we're trying to reduce outlet distribution, We're trying to reduce

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Speaker 3: wholesale distribution, or in a bid to elevate the brand.

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Speaker 3: This pledge to elevate the brand basically means to cater

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Speaker 3: to the customers with the highest purchasing power who are

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Speaker 3: not going to be as let's say, vulnerable to the

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Speaker 3: economic cycles. If you want to elevate the brand and

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Speaker 3: create desirability, you have to take basically short term hits.

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Speaker 3: So that means potentially, you know, because if you sell

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Speaker 3: into these outlets and to and via wholesale, you're going

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Speaker 3: to have bigger sales volumes, but then the margin is

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Speaker 3: going to be lower, right, so there's probably going to

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Speaker 3: be and they said it, short term pain. So this year,

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Speaker 3: for instance, they expect the profitability of Caring to be

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Speaker 3: lower than last year in order to basically strengthen and

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Speaker 3: boost the fundamentals of this brand on the business side

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Speaker 3: and on the creative side.

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Speaker 2: Representatives for FHP and Caring declined to comment on Angelina's reporting.

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Speaker 2: These aren't easy changes, even in the best of times,

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Speaker 2: and these are not the best of times for luxury fashion. Overall,

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Speaker 2: inflation has cast a chill on luxury consumers, and Caring,

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Speaker 2: more than others, is seeing buyers pull back. Meanwhile, the

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Speaker 2: company is waiting to see how the designs from the

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Speaker 2: newest Gucci creative director will sell. In twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 2: Sabato Desarno took over and his new collections are slowly

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Speaker 2: starting to show up in stores.

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Speaker 3: Basically, the reception and the appetite of consumers for the

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Speaker 3: new collections is going to be critical. And I think

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Speaker 3: we'll have the fuller picture by the end of this

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Speaker 3: year because all of the new creation under the new

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Speaker 3: creative design team led by Sabato di Saro, will be

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Speaker 3: really fully distributed into the all of the Gucci stores.

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Speaker 3: So that's why the market needs to be also perhaps

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Speaker 3: a little bit of patience, and that's why Carrying and

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Speaker 3: the executives they say at pretty much every single quarterly call.

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Speaker 2: How's it going so far? In its latest quarterly earning

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Speaker 2: report released on Tuesday, Caring, Gucci's parent company, worn recurring

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Speaker 2: operating income will drop between forty and forty five percent

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Speaker 2: in the first six months of this year compared to

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Speaker 2: the same period a year ago. It says sluggish sales

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Speaker 2: in China are part of the reason. Talking to reporters

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Speaker 2: on Tuesday, Caring's chief financial officer said that Gucci is

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Speaker 2: suffering in China in part because consumers there want high

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Speaker 2: end items or more affordable products. Gucci is stuck in

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Speaker 2: the middle. But the company noted that Gucci's new collections

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Speaker 2: have so far been quote very well received. So is

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Speaker 2: it too late for Gucci Angelina?

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's true that if you look at the

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Speaker 3: market gap, it's shrank a lot. And obviously the biggest

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Speaker 3: sort of the ones who are suffering the most are

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Speaker 3: the pinos themselves. Right if you look at the fortunes,

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Speaker 3: it's about thirty billion dollars right now. I would never

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Speaker 3: dismiss them because they've shown that they can really manage

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Speaker 3: to turn around.

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Speaker 2: Obviously this is a family owned company, but Angelina is

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Speaker 2: FHP the wrong guy for the job.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I mean that's pretty much something that our story

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Speaker 3: found when we're doing the report is that some investors

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Speaker 3: they think, you know, he's been there for years, he's

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Speaker 3: chairman and CEO. Why don't you maybe he should just

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Speaker 3: be chairman and appoint somebody like Francesca Belatini. Francesca Balatini

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Speaker 3: runs if San Laurent. She's known to be even luxury

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Speaker 3: rivals we spoke to they say she's one of the

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Speaker 3: best out there. Maybe she should be CEO of Caring

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Speaker 3: and and he should probably step back and be and

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Speaker 3: be chairman. He's got the credentials to you know, on

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Speaker 3: the on the professional you know, he's he's made some

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Speaker 3: really good calls in the past. It's just that right

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Speaker 3: now it's in a tricky situation and some investors are

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Speaker 3: really getting impatient because what happened is that the last

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Speaker 3: four years luxury rivals did this on the stock market.

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Speaker 3: They saw their share price rarely like, you know, to

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Speaker 3: extreme levels, and unfortunately, over the same period, Caring shares

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Speaker 3: have lost about a third of their value. So that's

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Speaker 3: why if you're a luxury invistor, you'd like, I'm getting

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Speaker 3: impatient now.

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Speaker 2: This is the big take from Bloomberg News. I'm Janet Paskin.

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Speaker 2: This episode was produced by Jessica Beck, Young Young, Julia Press,

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Speaker 2: and David Fox. It was edited by Caitlin Kenny and

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Speaker 2: Vidya Root, with additional reporting by Tara Patel. It was

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Speaker 2: mixed by Ben O'Brien and fact checked by David Fox.

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Speaker 2: Special thanks to Alex Webb and Matt Goldman of Bloomberg Originals.

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Speaker 2: Our senior producer is Naomi Shaven, Our senior editor is

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Speaker 2: Elizabeth Ponzo. Nicole Beamster Bower is our executive producer, and

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Speaker 2: Sage Bauman is head of Podcasts. Thanks for listening, Please

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Speaker 2: follow and review The Big Take wherever you listen to podcasts.

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