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Speaker 1: This is the most dramatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast.

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Speaker 1: Chris Harrison and Lauren Zema coming to you from the

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Speaker 1: home office in Austin, Texas. Hope everybody's doing good, LZ.

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Speaker 1: We're going to dive into, gosh, one of the most

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Speaker 1: bizarre stories, and I think what's going to turn out

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Speaker 1: to be one of the most bizarre legal cases this

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Speaker 1: country is seen in quite some time. I would put

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Speaker 1: it up there with the OJ trial, that is, the

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Speaker 1: United States of America versus Sean Combs aka Puff Daddy, AKAP, Diddy, Diddy,

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Speaker 1: pd Love. I've never heard the ak Well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, all of his names are literally named in this

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Speaker 2: indictment because he's used so many different stage names over

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Speaker 2: the years.

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Speaker 1: To make sure they cover him. But obviously this is

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Speaker 1: up there in the same pond for sure as the

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein situation. That is something we're going to discuss today.

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Speaker 1: We also have a very very good coming up that's

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Speaker 1: that will break this down with us on the legal side.

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Speaker 2: And you know him, Yes, so, Jesse Weber of the

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Speaker 2: Lawn Crime Network is joining us. Jesse I did a

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Speaker 2: lot of spots with him on ET when we had

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Speaker 2: ET Live over the years. He's a lawyer and a

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Speaker 2: legal expert, and he's just going to give us some

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Speaker 2: really good insight here because this case, you and I

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Speaker 2: actually weren't together this weekend. You were on a guy's

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Speaker 2: golf trip shocker, and I was home and my mom

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Speaker 2: and also the kids came to visit and so. But

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Speaker 2: I think we were both separately when we had downtime

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Speaker 2: reading about this on Twitter and in the news as

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Speaker 2: much as possible. Because you just likened it to Epstein,

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Speaker 2: I would like in it. I think this could be

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Speaker 2: the next Harvey Weinstein type of case, which is, you know,

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Speaker 2: because of the Hollywood side of it, and.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe a better analogy.

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Speaker 3: Well I think both, but I mean.

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Speaker 1: But bigger because of the you know, the Harvey Weinstein

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Speaker 1: of it all is just he was this kind of

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Speaker 1: gross figure that people would think on stage, but he

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Speaker 1: wasn't as front and center as Shawn Combs. Like this guy,

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Speaker 1: this is the biggest name. That's why I guess I

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Speaker 1: likened it more to the OJ thing because everyone knew OJ.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, I mean, P Diddy is a massively

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Speaker 2: public figure. He's a rapper, he's an actor, he's an entrepreneur.

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Speaker 2: He had a clothing line, Sean John. I mean, he's

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Speaker 2: built a whole brand and company for decades. Everybody knows

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Speaker 2: who p did he is, and so there's allegations in

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Speaker 2: this indictment against him, and he's been arrested and he

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Speaker 2: was denied bail. If you've missed it, it was it's

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Speaker 2: been a huge news story.

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Speaker 3: Over the past pay twice I believe he is.

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Speaker 2: Now he is being charged with sex trafficking, with racketeering,

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Speaker 2: with kidnapping after a grand jury indicted him. He's been

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Speaker 2: charged with three counts racketeering, conspiracy, sex trafficking by force,

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Speaker 2: fraud or cohercion, and transportation to engage in prostitution. And

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Speaker 2: one of the things I want to bring we wanted

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Speaker 2: to bring a legal ex on to get into was

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Speaker 2: you know what exactly those charges really mean. Something like

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Speaker 2: sex trafficking by force is a little confusing to me,

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Speaker 2: you know, I just want to understand it better. But

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Speaker 2: according to the indictment liszt now far back, this goes

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Speaker 2: from two thousand and eight to present, members of the

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Speaker 2: Combs Enterprise and I'm quoting TMZ summary of it here.

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Speaker 2: Members of the Combs Enterprise allegedly engaged in sex trafficking,

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Speaker 2: forced labor, interstate transportation for purposes of prostitution. Queer's an

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Speaker 2: indictment to engagement in prostitution and narcotics offenses, kidnapping, arson, bribery,

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Speaker 2: and obstruction of justice. So that's going way back. And

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Speaker 2: one of the biggest questions here is these videotapes. Allegedly

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Speaker 2: there are tapes that were found in Diddy's house, and

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Speaker 2: it's not really clear what's on these tapes, but it

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Speaker 2: seems like all the rumors are that he was secretly

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Speaker 2: recording people when he had these huge parties. Now, I

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Speaker 2: never interviewed Diddy, and I don't think you ever did a.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, you know. I was racking my brain.

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Speaker 3: It's hard.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes people ask me if you interviewed this person, and

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Speaker 2: I say, listen to my knowledge, no, But I will

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Speaker 2: say I've sometimes come across the footage of myself interviewing people,

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Speaker 2: and I don't remember it. Because when you're on a

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Speaker 2: red carpet, you might have interviewed at an award show

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Speaker 2: red carpet one hundred people in a night.

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Speaker 1: There was a picture of me someone posted from years ago.

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Speaker 1: There was a picture of me and Katy Perry and

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Speaker 1: Taylor Swift. Oh yeah, and you remember when Katie and Taylor.

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Speaker 3: Were when they were like working their feud out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and someone posted this picture of the three of us,

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Speaker 1: not like, you know, at a party or anything. We

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Speaker 1: were on the red carpet. I think at the American

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Speaker 1: Music Awards. If you would put a gun to my

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Speaker 1: head and you said, is there a picture that exists

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Speaker 1: of you and Katy Perry and Taylor Swift, I would

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Speaker 1: have said no way. So I don't know if I've

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Speaker 1: ever seen him on a red carpet or maybe interviewed

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Speaker 1: him possibly, But and that is one thing I also

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Speaker 1: want to mention before Jesse comes on. You see these

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Speaker 1: pictures on X or whatever people will post a picture

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Speaker 1: of like him and Steve Harvey or whatever, and it's like,

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Speaker 1: you've got to be careful just because you see a

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Speaker 1: picture of a celebrity in somebody else. To celebrities, especially

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Speaker 1: means nothing. That is not a relationship. There is not

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Speaker 1: necessarily a tie there, that's not an indictment. There are hundreds,

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Speaker 1: if not thousands of people that met Harvey Weinstein that

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Speaker 1: probably ran into Epstein, but definitely with p Diddy. The

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Speaker 1: guy was on every red carpet in the world. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean that necessarily these people are guilty of something

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Speaker 1: did something wrong, but that is where we are in

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Speaker 1: social media, and that's where a lot of these rumors go.

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Speaker 1: And we'll talk to Jesse about this. These rumors turn

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Speaker 1: into fact so quickly these days, and then people it's judge,

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Speaker 1: jury and executioner in a weekend, and nothing has been

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Speaker 1: brought as far as real evidence. And you have to

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Speaker 1: be very careful in these situations and where to really

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Speaker 1: draw that line between fact and fiction. And I'm just

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Speaker 1: saying sometimes you see a picture and you're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: whow they friends not necessarily.

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Speaker 2: But what is I think going to be a potentially

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Speaker 2: huge thing here is these parties that did he had

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Speaker 2: because the sort of center of this indictment is these

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Speaker 2: quote freakoffs that he had where allegedly people were, you know,

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Speaker 2: having sex in front of other people and allegedly, you know,

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Speaker 2: people were being forced into.

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Speaker 3: Some of this.

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Speaker 2: And they found and this has definitely been a head

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Speaker 2: like headline making discovery about one thousand bottles of baby

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Speaker 2: oil and lubricant in his house when it was rated

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Speaker 2: that was apparently part of this stock of freak off

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Speaker 2: party supplies. So that gives you a thousand bottles, gives

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Speaker 2: you a bit of an idea of the scope of

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Speaker 2: these parties, how often they were happening, how big they were.

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Speaker 1: And sex toys that were taken out as well. Oh

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Speaker 1: yeah it was gross.

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Speaker 2: Oh wait, that's coming back to mind, like hundreds of

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Speaker 2: yes of Tilda.

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Speaker 3: Okay, well we just said dildos.

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Speaker 2: But so I will say over the weekend, you know,

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Speaker 2: things are getting brought up on Twitter videos, old video

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Speaker 2: interviews of a lot of people acknowledging these parties in Hollywood,

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Speaker 2: like Ashton Kutcher is in it. I think it's a

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Speaker 2: Hot Ones interview saying who the Diddy parties? Yeah, whoa,

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Speaker 2: There's a lot happened at those And there's also questions

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Speaker 2: about so I mean a these big parties, they're an

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Speaker 2: old I think did he did the Vogue seventy three

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Speaker 2: questions video and they asked him, you're famous for your parties.

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Speaker 2: Who's your number one party guest you always want to invite?

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Speaker 2: And he said, Leonardo DiCaprio, No, no hesitance. There's old

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Speaker 2: photos that have surfaced from like he did He's famous

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Speaker 2: white party in the Hampton's over Labor Day weekend and

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Speaker 2: people are naked in them and and you know, Leonardo

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Speaker 2: DiCaprio's there, and so it's like there are going to

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Speaker 2: be I think questions of what's on these tapes, who's

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Speaker 2: on these tapes, if he was secretly recording people, who's

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Speaker 2: on these tapes?

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Speaker 3: What might come out?

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Speaker 1: But justin bieber of it all is very interesting, So I.

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Speaker 2: Want to get into that. But separately, I just want

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Speaker 2: to tie up on the party thing. Who was at

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Speaker 2: these parties, what happened at these parties? And also was

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Speaker 2: there maybe a more celebrity slightly more public version of

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Speaker 2: the party happening in one room and other things happening

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Speaker 2: behind closed doors.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, So we'll see. But do I think

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Speaker 3: there's the potential for big names to come out as

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Speaker 3: part of this? Maybe?

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Speaker 1: And you know, I think that's the biggest thing. And

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Speaker 1: that's what I want to ask Jesse about because the

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Speaker 1: I think the biggest problem that everyday people have with

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Speaker 1: the Epstein lack of trial and lack of public knowledge

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Speaker 1: and declaration of what really happened is we don't know.

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Speaker 1: No names came out and you heard former presidents being named,

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Speaker 1: the head of the biggest computer company in the world

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Speaker 1: was being named. His wife very famously left Bill Gates

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Speaker 1: right as all this stuff was coming out, and all

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Speaker 1: the you know, presidents, royal family members, all these people

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Speaker 1: were wrapped up in this Epstein situation. Crickets, the media

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Speaker 1: dropped it, everyone's dropped it. This you know Jiselne Maxwell

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Speaker 1: who apparently knew everything and ate it and embedded in

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Speaker 1: this whole thing. And then Epstein was suicided and it's

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Speaker 1: just gone away. So will I think people for this

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Speaker 1: to happen so quickly on the heels of Epstein. One

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Speaker 1: of my questions that Jesse is will this just go

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Speaker 1: away and be brushed under the rug? Because there are

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Speaker 1: high profile people that are clearly in trouble here and

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Speaker 1: will go down if this comes out. Lives will be ruined,

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Speaker 1: big influential people. Will this be brushed under the rug?

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Speaker 1: Just like the Epstein situation?

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Speaker 2: And there's definitely that element of why, how in hindsight

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Speaker 2: a lot of things were going on even on a

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Speaker 2: public level that we're just kind of okayed because of Hollywood.

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Speaker 2: But really you look back in your life, like, wait,

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Speaker 2: what and I say that to bring up what you

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Speaker 2: just mentioned, the Justin Bieber thing. So I didn't really

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Speaker 2: remember this, but what's coming out now. And there's old

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Speaker 2: videos of Diddy and Bieber together, and there's old videos

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Speaker 2: of Usher talking about this on Howard Stern. Diddy apparently

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Speaker 2: took some now very famous but at the time very

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Speaker 2: young music stars in to live with him, Usher being

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Speaker 2: one of them. Usher went to live with Ditty, And

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Speaker 2: I'm quoting Usher here. He said this on Howard Stern

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Speaker 2: an interview. I just saw for the first time a

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Speaker 2: few days ago. He lived with Ditty for a year

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Speaker 2: when he was thirteen years old, So I think did

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Speaker 2: he even have legal guardianship of him at the time.

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Speaker 2: Why is a thirteen year old boy going to live

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Speaker 2: with a man he doesn't know for a year in

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Speaker 2: his home? And Usher hinted it, Yeah, I saw some

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Speaker 2: stuff while I live there. Bieber a very similar thing.

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Speaker 2: He was fifteen years old. I don't think it was

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Speaker 2: for as long as Usher, but he was kind of

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Speaker 2: given to Ditty at least for days at a time

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Speaker 2: to understand the industry. For Diddy to teach him about

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Speaker 2: the industry. There is a video of Diddy and Bieber

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Speaker 2: together Bieber's fifteen, where Diddy says, have you ever heard

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Speaker 2: of forty eight hours? We're going to go have forty

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Speaker 2: eight hours and justin here is going to see some

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Speaker 2: things that a lot of fifteen year olds would want

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Speaker 2: to see, but we're not going to be able to

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Speaker 2: disclose what happens over the next forty eight hours. He's

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Speaker 2: fifteen years old.

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Speaker 1: And at the time, it's funny that people just go, oh,

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Speaker 1: these are these are rock stars, you know, these are

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Speaker 1: the biggest everything's okay it and everything's just okay that

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Speaker 1: they get to do. They can do whatever they want.

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Speaker 1: And now in hindsight, we look back at these tapes

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Speaker 1: and we're like, we all witnessed this, right, we all

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Speaker 1: saw it go down when we weren't appalled then, and

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Speaker 1: nobody same thing with you know, with you mentioned Harvey Weinstein.

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Speaker 1: It was the worst kept secret in Hollywood, and so

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Speaker 1: many people, the biggest names in the industry knew and

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Speaker 1: aid and abedded because they just kind of look the

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Speaker 1: other way and they were being fitting from Weinstein and

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Speaker 1: his movies and his parties and et cetera. No one

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Speaker 1: wanted to be the person to kind of step out

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Speaker 1: of line, and I think we're going to see it

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Speaker 1: all over again on a very grand scale.

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Speaker 2: What definitely happens is this mass mentality of oh, everyone's

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Speaker 2: doing it, so it's okay, right, it's Hollywood, like I mean,

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I don't really know Justin.

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Speaker 2: I've never met Justin Bieber's parents, but probably as they're

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Speaker 2: breaking him into the music industry, people are saying, oh, well, no,

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Speaker 2: did he takes people? And he took usher in and

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Speaker 2: so that's normal, and so there it goes. I think

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Speaker 2: Jesse's here, so we want to bring him in.

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Speaker 1: Kind of reminds me a little bit too of the

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Speaker 1: Michael Jackson, you know, the mcaulay culkin stuff that came out.

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Speaker 2: And we definitely have had the veil pulled back on

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Speaker 2: what Child's stars go through and it's not okay.

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Speaker 1: I think this is a good time to kind of

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Speaker 1: to bring Jess into this again. He's an anchor and

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Speaker 1: reporter for the Law on Crime Network. He's also hosted

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Speaker 1: Crime and Justice and live trial coverage on CNN Chicago

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Speaker 1: entertainment show A Little Thing called Entertainment Tonight, alongside the

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Speaker 1: Beautiful Lauren Zima and basically every other entertainment show. Jesse, welcome.

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Speaker 1: First of all, thank you for your time.

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Speaker 4: Oh my pleasure. Thanks so much for having me. I'm

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Speaker 4: happy to talk to you, guys. I'm a big fan

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Speaker 4: of the podcast, Jesse. You're so good at what you do.

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Speaker 2: I think you and I first started working together when

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Speaker 2: we had you on ET during the Johnny Depp amber

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Speaker 2: Herd trial, and your podcast Law and Crime Sidebar became

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Speaker 2: something I listened to every day during that trial. And

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Speaker 2: now I know you've done already at this point, I

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Speaker 2: think four or five episodes on all of the Diddy

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Speaker 2: accusations since this came out a few days ago.

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Speaker 3: So first I just want to start with what.

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Speaker 2: Was your initial reaction when you read the indictment and

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Speaker 2: heard the charges.

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Speaker 4: Well S, we did four to five episodes a day

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Speaker 4: after the end because there's so much here. Now. Look,

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Speaker 4: a lot of people would look at this and say,

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Speaker 4: what's going on? What's a freak off? I don't what Diddy?

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Speaker 4: Where'd that come from? I had been following this case

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Speaker 4: since November of last year, when that first lawsuit was

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Speaker 4: filed by Sean Comb's ex girlfriend, Cassandra Venturo So I

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Speaker 4: had been following this. From the beginning, I knew he

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Speaker 4: was going to get indicted. A lot of people were

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Speaker 4: saying it was going to happen at the end of

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Speaker 4: the summer September. You know, wasn't surprised when you look

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Speaker 4: at this and you say racketeering and sex trafficking. It's

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Speaker 4: exactly what we expected. It's the same kind of playbook,

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Speaker 4: the same allegations that were being asserted against him in

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Speaker 4: all of these civil lawsuits. What I thought was remarkable

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Speaker 4: was there wasn't more in it. I actually thought that

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Speaker 4: he might be charged with more crimes. I thought there

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Speaker 4: were going to be things about minors, because that was

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Speaker 4: an how that had been circling around Sean Combs. I

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Speaker 4: actually thought the indictment would be a little bit metior,

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Speaker 4: there'd be more there. But the way that they have

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Speaker 4: basically structured it is very similar to the R. Kelly indictment.

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Speaker 4: This kind of criminal enterprise, that he is the essentially

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Speaker 4: a gang leader, that he's involved in all of these

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Speaker 4: crimes like kidnapping and forced labor and bribery. You forget

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Speaker 4: for a minute that we're talking about Sean Combs, the

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Speaker 4: guy that dominated the hip hop industry, for so long

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Speaker 4: and essentially if you believe the prosecutors was running a

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Speaker 4: criminal organization. I don't even want to say behind the scenes,

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Speaker 4: because there's the question of did everybody see this well?

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Speaker 1: And that's that Lauren and I just made that exact

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Speaker 1: point of this was all out in the open. It

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Speaker 1: was so brazen. I mean, you look at these old

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Speaker 1: interviews and at the time, we're like, oh, that's Diddy,

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Speaker 1: you know, the biggest hip hop star and clothing mogul

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Speaker 1: in the world, and they're just being silly, They're being Hollywood.

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Speaker 1: And now you look back and I think we our

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Speaker 1: eyes have all been open to We mentioned the Epstein,

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Speaker 1: we mentioned Harvey Weinstein, and as you just said, r Kelly,

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Speaker 1: that's another great reference of I think we're now realizing,

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, we have been watching this play out

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Speaker 1: literally for decades.

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Speaker 2: Jesse, can you give us we're seeing and what Chris

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Speaker 2: and I are reading out here, charges like sex trafficking

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Speaker 2: and racketeering in arson, Can you give us just the

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Speaker 2: basic understanding of what these charges are against Diddy and

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Speaker 2: the gravity of them. And also, since this indictment is

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Speaker 2: citing back to two thousand and eight, how is it

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Speaker 2: all just coming out now, And how did he hide

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Speaker 2: if he's if he did these things, how is it

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Speaker 2: all hidden until now?

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Speaker 4: Great question. I don't have the answer for that, and

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Speaker 4: you know who else doesn't have the answer for that,

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Speaker 4: the US attorney. That was the very first question the

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Speaker 4: US attorney was asked in the press conference, why is

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Speaker 4: this only coming out now? No good answer for that.

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Speaker 4: I think there is a possibility that if you take

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Speaker 4: the prosecutor's word for it, power influence buys you a

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Speaker 4: lot of leeway. You take one of the allegations that

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Speaker 4: he beat up Cassandra Ventur in twenty sixteen, that tape

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Speaker 4: was hidden obstensibly he allegedly bribed security officials to make

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Speaker 4: sure that never saw the light of day. So the

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Speaker 4: idea of a cover up, But I also I believe

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Speaker 4: that it was because of all those civil lawsuits shedding

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Speaker 4: a light on it, these people coming forward, prosecutors looking

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Speaker 4: into it. That's why we have the charges right now.

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Speaker 4: I mean, if you want to give credit to credit

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Speaker 4: due in terms of this happening, it's Cassandra Ventur. She

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Speaker 4: started this, this lawsuit, her lawsuit in November of twenty

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Speaker 4: twenty three. Is why we have charges against Sean Combs

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Speaker 4: today and he's innocent, so proven guilty. But that's why

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Speaker 4: we have the charges now. In terms of what the

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Speaker 4: charges are, so there's three main charges. They're all felonies.

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Speaker 4: First one racketeering conspiracy. So what you're basically saying is

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Speaker 4: there has to be an agreement between Combs and others

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Speaker 4: to violate racketeering laws. What's that that there is a

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Speaker 4: criminal enterprise, a criminal organization. The goal here was to

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Speaker 4: basically sexually abuse women, to engage in sex trafficking, kidnapping,

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Speaker 4: force labor. That they would use a variety of methods

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Speaker 4: to do this, violence, threats, coercion, and as a result

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Speaker 4: of this, there was a benefit to Combs, there was

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Speaker 4: a benefit to others that were a part of this.

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Speaker 4: And if you can show this illegal agreement, if you

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Speaker 4: can show this illegal criminal organization with all of these

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Speaker 4: underlying crimes, that's racketeering conspiracy and it's a big charge.

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Speaker 4: In fact, in the indictment, I think that takes up

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Speaker 4: the majority of the indictment. They're trying to explain what

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Speaker 4: it is and there's so many underlying crimes as part

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Speaker 4: of this criminal organization. It's like the mafia. He's essentially

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Speaker 4: the don in a way. The second charge is sex

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Speaker 4: trafficking by force, fraud, or coercion. That's with respect to

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Speaker 4: one victim. We don't know exactly who that is. There

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Speaker 4: are those who say Kube Cassandra Ventura. Sex trafficking is

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Speaker 4: basically using fraud, coercion, force to have someone engage in

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Speaker 4: sexual activity for a commercial purpose. For commercial sex, it's

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Speaker 4: either they're paid for it, they're offered something of value,

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Speaker 4: they're transported over state lines. That's sex trafficking. The final

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Speaker 4: one is trumportation for a prostitution transporting people across state

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Speaker 4: lines for the purposes of illegal s ex wort, prostitution.

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Speaker 4: And they're three main charges. Again, I was curious if

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Speaker 4: there were going to be more, but there's a lot

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Speaker 4: built into those. We don't know exactly who all the

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Speaker 4: accusers are, we don't know who all the witnesses are,

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Speaker 4: we don't know all the evidence. But those are the

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Speaker 4: three main charges that Sean Combs is currently facing.

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Speaker 2: There's an old Conan clip of Diddy that has surfaced

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Speaker 2: where he says in the clip, well, yeah, you've got

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Speaker 2: to lock women up sometimes for these parties, and I

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Speaker 2: turned the ac down, so everybody gets hot and it

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Speaker 2: encourages them to do things. And you're thinking, he's literally

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Speaker 2: saying on Conan, how he curates this party, and he

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Speaker 2: just said he locks people up and he says that,

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Speaker 2: but you almost think, I mean, I don't know. I

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Speaker 2: guess at the time we all think he's joking, and

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Speaker 2: everybody looks the other way.

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Speaker 4: Well, look after these allegations and after the indictment, people

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Speaker 4: will look at old videos and say, oh, that's proof,

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Speaker 4: or that's going to be part of the case, or

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Speaker 4: that we don't know for sure. I mean, he could

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Speaker 4: have been talking about a random party. He could have

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Speaker 4: been talking about what he's accused of doing here. I

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Speaker 4: will tell you that that theme, that power, that influence,

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Speaker 4: that is consistent in a lot of these cases. And

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Speaker 4: not everybody's going to be charged with what Shawn Combs

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Speaker 4: is charged with. Not everybody gets charged with running a

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Speaker 4: racketeering enterprise or sex trafficking. You have to have the

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Speaker 4: ability to do that. You have to have allegedly a

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Speaker 4: network of people around you. And so when you see

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Speaker 4: somebody like an R. Kelly or what Shawn Combs is

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Speaker 4: accused of doing here, it's that rare set of individuals

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Speaker 4: who have that ability, the power, the money, the influence

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Speaker 4: to not only allegedly engage in these crimes but cover

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Speaker 4: it up. That's a big theme of this as well,

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Speaker 4: that the reason he never was caught was because he

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Speaker 4: pushed everything under the run, and that is equally as disturbing.

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Speaker 4: And by the way, one of the reasons why at

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Speaker 4: the time of this broadcast time we're recording, he's currently

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Speaker 4: locked up. He didn't get bail. Yeah, because he's accused

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Speaker 4: of reaching out to the witnesses and trying to you know,

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Speaker 4: color their testimony. It's unbelievable.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the judge said, turn him down twice for bail,

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Speaker 1: and part of that was, as you said, tampering, witness tampering,

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Speaker 1: but also just she couldn't be sure that even with

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Speaker 1: a fifty million dollar bond, that he would ever be

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Speaker 1: back in the courtroom, whether it's a flight risk or

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Speaker 1: for his own safety. Chances of him actually remaining alive

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Speaker 1: and coming back to court probably slim and none. And

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Speaker 1: chances of him ever making it alive like Epstein did

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Speaker 1: might be slim and none.

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Speaker 4: And by the way, he offered a generous package, right,

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Speaker 4: fifty million dollars secured by property. He said, that'll hire

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Speaker 4: a third party security team to monitor in twenty four

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Speaker 4: to seven, no phone, no internet, He'll give the visitor

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Speaker 4: logs who comes to the house. Judge said that's insufficient

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Speaker 4: because they were like and there were two judges that

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Speaker 4: actually denied this. A lot of this conduct happened behind

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Speaker 4: the scenes and the allegations. He might not have a phone,

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Speaker 4: but he could get somebody who has a phone, and

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Speaker 4: he has this network of people that might be able

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Speaker 4: to do it for him. So him on the outside

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Speaker 4: would be a danger to not only the alleged victims

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Speaker 4: in this case of the witnesses, but the integrity of

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Speaker 4: the case.

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Speaker 2: Jesse, do you think that more as you're talking about

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Speaker 2: this network, what do you think potentially will come out

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Speaker 2: in terms of other people being charged or other you know,

433
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,520
Speaker 2: what's going to still come out here as being explosive

434
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:10,000
Speaker 2: because you just said you thought.

435
00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:11,840
Speaker 3: The indictment was going to be metier than it was.

436
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:15,480
Speaker 2: Why wasn't it metior And who else could get in

437
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 2: trouble for all this?

438
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:18,879
Speaker 4: Well, I think when you're dealing with the Southern District

439
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:21,000
Speaker 4: of New York or the prosecutors in this case. They

440
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,160
Speaker 4: have experience in this and they're only going to prosecute

441
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,000
Speaker 4: at this point what they have the goods for. There

442
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:28,840
Speaker 4: might be more down the line. But in one of

443
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:30,960
Speaker 4: their documents and one of the letters they filed with

444
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,160
Speaker 4: the court, they said they spoke with over fifty witnesses

445
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:35,360
Speaker 4: and victims. We don't know who those people are. They

446
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 4: could be very well be the people who are allegedly

447
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,639
Speaker 4: involved in this network. And I think when you charge

448
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 4: a Sean Combs with three felony counts that could see

449
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 4: him face obstensibly the rest of his life in prison,

450
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,520
Speaker 4: that's a wake up call to people. We better contact

451
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:54,120
Speaker 4: the government before they contact us. And I think they've

452
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,920
Speaker 4: already spoken with a number of people they feel very

453
00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 4: confident in this case. They didn't lay out even a

454
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:01,879
Speaker 4: fraction of the evidence. They have even an idea of

455
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,800
Speaker 4: what the evidence they have. They've obviously been speaking with witnesses.

456
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,080
Speaker 4: They apparently have digital evidence, physical evidence. But this could

457
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:10,600
Speaker 4: become a time when more people come forward to build

458
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:13,639
Speaker 4: the case against Shawn Combs and maybe other people. Now,

459
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:17,639
Speaker 4: to be clear, just be tended a Shawn Combs party

460
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 4: doesn't make you a criminal, doesn't make you legally liable.

461
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 4: You would have had to be a part of this.

462
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,400
Speaker 4: You would have had to aid and abt these crimes

463
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:27,920
Speaker 4: to somehow be a participant in these crimes. And also,

464
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:31,160
Speaker 4: I can't tell you one hundred percent maybe other than Cassandravntur,

465
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:33,399
Speaker 4: because a lot of her allegations are very similar to

466
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:35,959
Speaker 4: what we saw in the indictment. I don't know if

467
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 4: the other people who filed lawsuits against Shawn Combs are

468
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 4: the main cooperating witnesses in this case. Very well could

469
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,360
Speaker 4: be the situation. Maybe the government spoke with them, maybe

470
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 4: they corroborated certain claims. We don't know, but it's very

471
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 4: possible in the weeks and months ahead, we could see

472
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:55,119
Speaker 4: an additional indictment. We could see other people charged. But

473
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 4: right now they're alleging that Seawan Combs is at the

474
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,479
Speaker 4: top of that. And I've been asked, well, he's going

475
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 4: to name names, right, He's going to give up all

476
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,919
Speaker 4: the details. Why would he do that. They're not going

477
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 4: to off him a deal that doesn't include prison time

478
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 4: at a minimum of ten to fifteen years. So the

479
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:12,880
Speaker 4: idea that he's just now going to talk to get

480
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:14,919
Speaker 4: some sort of deal, I don't see it happening.

481
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 1: We were just talking before he came on one of

482
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 1: the most disappointing things about the Epstein lack of trial,

483
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:27,439
Speaker 1: And obviously he died by suicide technically allegedly, but we

484
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,439
Speaker 1: all expected somebody was going to name names if it

485
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 1: wasn't Epstein, it was Maxwell or somebody, and that there

486
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 1: was going to be this. It was going to be

487
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:37,880
Speaker 1: this big explosive case of all the people who had

488
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,240
Speaker 1: been on his island, from the royals to the former

489
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 1: presidents to the biggest celebrities or allegedly none of that

490
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 1: came out he died. Maxwell came and went, so is

491
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:55,200
Speaker 1: this going to be history repeating itself? Or are there

492
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 1: finally are we going to learn from those mistakes? And

493
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,199
Speaker 1: will there be names being named? Or is this we

494
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,360
Speaker 1: think there's going to be celebrities being because that's really

495
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:05,360
Speaker 1: what everyone's talking about, is all the big celebrity names

496
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,119
Speaker 1: and involved in all this. Is that ever going to

497
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 1: bear fruit or is this just going to go away

498
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:09,400
Speaker 1: as well?

499
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 4: Well? I certainly hope we have more transparency in this

500
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 4: case than we did in the Epstein case. And I

501
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,399
Speaker 4: think as those documents came out, the number one thing

502
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,679
Speaker 4: that became clear is he was offered a deal that

503
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 4: he shouldn't have been offered. And remember this was also

504
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 4: happening in an earlier time. A lot of this alleged

505
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 4: conduct that they're talking about from two thousand and nine

506
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,399
Speaker 4: to twenty twenty four. We're living in a day of

507
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 4: digital media and a lot more is captured on cell phones,

508
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 4: a lot more on surveillance footage. Hey, we saw that

509
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,359
Speaker 4: video of Cassandra Vntera allegedly being beat up by Sean Combs.

510
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 4: That piece of evidence right there is more than we

511
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 4: ever saw in the Epstein case. So there's a possibility

512
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:48,159
Speaker 4: that we may see more. There's a possibility that there

513
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 4: are people who are speaking with the government. We will

514
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 4: never know who those people are. There is a possibility

515
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 4: that there are celebrities, high profile people that are on

516
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 4: the government's radar that were never prosecuted, we're never interviewed.

517
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 4: And there's and even stronger possibility that there are certain

518
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 4: celebrities who will never say what they witnessed or try

519
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 4: to distance themselves from Seawan Combs as much as possible.

520
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:11,919
Speaker 4: So as much as we would hope for full transparency,

521
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,439
Speaker 4: not only just for us, as a society to know

522
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,119
Speaker 4: what was going on. But the victims, the alleged victims

523
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 4: of these crimes, I can't tell you one hundred percent

524
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 4: what will happen. We're still in the early stages of this.

525
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,160
Speaker 4: He was just indicted. But when you're in the hands

526
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,399
Speaker 4: of the Southern District of New York, these are very

527
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 4: serious federal prosecutors and they wouldn't conduct raids like that

528
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,880
Speaker 4: in that fashion unless they felt confident in the case

529
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 4: and know what the path is moving forward.

530
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:49,160
Speaker 2: Justin I'm glad that you brought up that you'd been

531
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,439
Speaker 2: following it since November, because now I'm getting a little fuzzy,

532
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 2: and can you refresh my memory? So I remember Cassandra Ventura,

533
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 2: like you said, the singer known as Cassie. So she'd

534
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,199
Speaker 2: been in a long relationship with Diddy and then I

535
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:04,920
Speaker 2: it was kind of a bombshell. She sued him right

536
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 2: for these allegations against him of abuse, and then it

537
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,400
Speaker 2: was like he very quickly settled with her. But then

538
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 2: that was what started this ball rolling, right, or refresh

539
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 2: my memory on why they raided his house in the

540
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 2: first place.

541
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 4: You're one hundred percent right. So it was November twenty

542
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 4: twenty three, when Cassandra Ventura launches this bombshell lawsuit. I

543
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,199
Speaker 4: mean the idea of the freak offs. That's where I

544
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 4: heard it for the first time. Unfortunately, I wish I

545
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 4: never heard it, but that's where I heard it. And

546
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,119
Speaker 4: a lot of these allegations, including that she was beaten

547
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 4: up at the Intercontinental Hotel in twenty sixteen, was part

548
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 4: of that. I was reading through it, I did a

549
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:43,879
Speaker 4: breakdown on sidebar all of this. I said to myself,

550
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 4: I know, we'll see where this case goes. And then

551
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,879
Speaker 4: she ends up settling the next day. Not uncommon we

552
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 4: see settlements, but the very next day. You know, Sean

553
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 4: Combs clearly wanted to keep it quiet, didn't want to

554
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 4: go through a litigation where all this evidence could come out.

555
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:02,120
Speaker 4: And from there nine or ten law suits resulted, everything

556
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 4: from former people who said that they were assaulted by

557
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 4: him in the nineties. You have a former producer who

558
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 4: says that he was sexually assaulted and sex trafficked by

559
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 4: Sean Combs. And as this was going on, whenever you

560
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 4: see these kinds of civil cases, you say, I wonder

561
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 4: if the authorities are looking into this. Now a lot

562
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 4: of these claims were old, so they were too old,

563
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 4: they were pasted, they were too old for the statue limitations,

564
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:29,159
Speaker 4: you couldn't bring charges. But when we saw the raids

565
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 4: at his properties in March, we didn't know exactly what

566
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 4: they were for. We didn't know then as it happened,

567
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 4: we learned that they were part of an ongoing sex

568
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 4: trafficking investigation, and that was consistent with the allegations that

569
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 4: were put forward in the civil suits. And then our

570
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 4: next question was, well are these people cooperating with them?

571
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 4: What evidence was collected? We know his sons were handcuffed

572
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 4: and detained outside of the la property, and they had

573
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 4: been listed in these lawsuits as well as being participants

574
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 4: that was going on, and so as we were trying

575
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 4: to make sense of that, we knew that there was

576
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 4: going to There was a report a grand jury was

577
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 4: impaneled in New York. We knew charges were coming well,

578
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 4: we just didn't know exactly what those charges would be,

579
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 4: when they would come, who with the cooperating witnesses would be.

580
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 4: But what was remarkable is looks as attorney, I hate

581
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 4: to say this, anybody can sue anybody for anything. That's

582
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 4: the truth. It doesn't mean they're going to be successful.

583
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 4: But anybody can see anything when federal prosecutors bring criminal

584
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 4: charges seemingly done these allegations and use the term freak

585
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 4: off that has been referenced in those lawsuits. How much

586
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,719
Speaker 4: more credibility does that give those those accusers. How much

587
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 4: more credibility does it give a Cassandra Vntura. And look,

588
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 4: there's a number of reasons people settle lawsuits, right, you

589
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 4: can't falter for settling a lawsuit. We don't know what

590
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,479
Speaker 4: the terms of that settlement were, but I think it

591
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 4: does give a little bit of credence to what she

592
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 4: was saying. And obviously it seems to me she's going

593
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 4: to be a star witness for the prosecution and she'll

594
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 4: be questioned by the defense. But the idea that federal

595
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 4: prosecute worked, which by the way, this case probably wouldn't

596
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 4: have happened if it wasn't for those civil lawsuits. And

597
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 4: one more thing, half those lawsuits wouldn't have been possible

598
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 4: if there wasn't a change in the law. In New York.

599
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 4: They made a law where you had a one year

600
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 4: look back window to file civil claims that were otherwise

601
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 4: too old. If they weren't didn't have the ability to

602
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 4: do that. I don't know if this would have been

603
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 4: on prosecutors radar. I don't know if any of these

604
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 4: accusers would have felt comfortable coming forward. And so those

605
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 4: civil lawsuits, this is a case where you have to say,

606
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 4: if it wasn't for those, we probably wouldn't have seen

607
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 4: federal criminal charges.

608
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 2: So everybody's asking about these videotapes from these raids that

609
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 2: you're mentioning, what is the process for the prosecutors after

610
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 2: the raid happens. They get all this digital footage, obviously

611
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 2: they go through it, and then are they potentially reaching

612
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 2: out to people who might have been victims that they're

613
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 2: seeing on these tapes? Are they putting together cases against

614
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 2: maybe other potential criminals.

615
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 3: From these tapes? How does that go?

616
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 2: Because it makes me wonder, as Chris is saying, everybody's

617
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 2: asking what names who's on these tapes? And how much

618
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 2: will we hear about potentially famous people on these tapes.

619
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,479
Speaker 4: So look, it's a few parts. Number One, they wouldn't

620
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 4: have been able to get the search warrants to search

621
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,959
Speaker 4: those properties if they didn't have probable costs when you

622
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 4: search a property to get additional evidence like videotapes, Does

623
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 4: it corroborate what you've already been told? It corroborates, That

624
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 4: definitely helps the case. There are other people on those tapes,

625
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 4: and remember the allegation as Sean Combs had videotape people

626
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 4: without them knowing. It becomes a question do you let

627
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 4: the victims know that they are essentially on these tapes

628
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 4: and what it means if there are other people who

629
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 4: are on those tapes that are facilitating this abuse, then

630
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 4: they can come in the crosshairs of federal prosecutors and

631
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 4: they have to sit down for an interview, and it

632
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 4: becomes a question of how much you let them know

633
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 4: what's going on. I've seen a million interrogations where you

634
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 4: kind of let the subject speak a little bit, and

635
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 4: when they try to say, I don't know anything about it,

636
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 4: we have some evidence against you. Sure you want to

637
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 4: stick with this story? And I think all of this

638
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 4: was happening behind the scenes for months, building a case,

639
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 4: reaching out to witnesses, reaching out to alleged victims, corroborating

640
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 4: their stories. Again, what I took away from the past

641
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 4: week the two letters from the prosecutors to the judges

642
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 4: and the indictment was a confidence in the charges that

643
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 4: they're moving forward with, and they wouldn't have brought this

644
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 4: case unless they felt they had the goods. And they

645
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 4: say that there is a wealth of evidence, a lot

646
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 4: of evidence they have to prove these crimes legally.

647
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 1: I'm curious to piggyback on what Lauren's asking. So we

648
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 1: know they have thousands and thousands of hours of videos

649
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 1: to comb through, which I can't imagine how daunting and

650
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 1: horrifying that is to go through. If someone is being

651
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 1: videotaped unbeknownst to them against their will, yet they see

652
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 1: a crime committed, someone's with underage or committing some crime,

653
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 1: that is that is that going to be sticky because

654
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 1: this isn't exactly part of a sting operation. You see

655
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 1: what I'm getting at. It's like, Okay, well they didn't

656
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: know the other being videotaped against their will, yet you're

657
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 1: watching someone make a you know, commit a crime. Is

658
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 1: that something they can go after? They could just use

659
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 1: it as leverage.

660
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 4: So there's another States across this country have a number

661
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 4: of laws in place about whether or not someone could

662
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 4: be recorded without their consent. There's also revenge porn laws

663
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 4: and what you can also see is the federal prosecutors

664
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,959
Speaker 4: can't bring state charges. But what they can do, and

665
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 4: what you saw during the course of this racketeering case

666
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 4: is they listed a number of crimes that are illegal

667
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 4: under California or New York law, like kidnapping, forced labor, bribery,

668
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 4: and they're building that into a larger racketeering case. Okay,

669
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 4: so what they are basically saying is there's a criminal enterprise.

670
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 4: We'll show you there's arson here, show you there's kidnapping.

671
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 4: We're not charging Shawn Combs with that individually, but it's

672
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 4: part of a larger case to say that he is

673
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:10,439
Speaker 4: operating this criminal enterprise that engaged in all of these

674
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 4: different crimes. And they may tack on more because not

675
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 4: to get too complicated, but for a racketeering case, you

676
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 4: really only need to prove two underlying crimes. Imagine if

677
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 4: they can show the jury so much more, and it

678
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,839
Speaker 4: does become a question even if Shawn Combs they can

679
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 4: prove is guilty of state crimes, and you have state

680
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 4: prosecutors that want to bring those charges, do you the

681
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 4: federal case is going to go first. One of the

682
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 4: things with r. Kelly is I don't even remember how

683
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:41,359
Speaker 4: many jurisdictions he was charged in, Chicago, Minneapolis, New York.

684
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 4: Federal prosecutors are building a case where essentially, you know,

685
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 4: he could go to prison. As I'm not emphasizing this

686
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 4: light racketeering is twenty years in prison. One of the

687
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,319
Speaker 4: other charges fifteen years to life. If there might be

688
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 4: enough there is it worth trying to prosecute him in

689
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 4: a state case right now? But we'll see. But don't

690
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,399
Speaker 4: I think they're building more of those state charges into

691
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 4: the federal case.

692
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 1: Like I think I think we realize he's dead to right,

693
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 1: like he's toast.

694
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 4: Well, he's innocential, proven guilty of an opportunity he.

695
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 1: Has another analysts said, kind of what you did is

696
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 1: like they don't press charges of this type without knowing

697
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 1: they got this guy dead to write, So let's assume

698
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 1: you know allegedly he's he's toast. It's this much like

699
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,839
Speaker 1: the Epstein thing. The bigger issues with these situations is

700
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,959
Speaker 1: they're bigger than one man. This isn't just about p Didty,

701
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 1: It's not about Sean Combs not it wasn't just about

702
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein. This goes so much bigger. You know even

703
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 1: this week it's you know, doesn't have anything to do

704
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 1: with it, We don't know. But then Usher and pink

705
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 1: erased all their Twitter history this weekend, and so I guarantee,

706
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 1: I'm sure you know there are some very nervous celebrities

707
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 1: and people in the music industry, in Hollywood business. This

708
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 1: thing has to be bigger. It has longer tentacles than

709
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 1: just Sean Combs. Correct Remember what have with Harvey Weinstein.

710
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 4: It was the darling of about and everybody starts to

711
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 4: say I noticed something, he would talk, but they weren't

712
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 4: a part of the actual abuse. They weren't there for

713
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 4: when it happened. This feels a little bit different now.

714
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 4: I want to be clear about something. If celebrities are

715
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,439
Speaker 4: taking some actions right now after the indictment, I don't

716
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 4: know what to make of that. I'm not necessarily going

717
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 4: to say they're a victim or a participant in what happened.

718
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,359
Speaker 4: We shall wait and see. But what I can say

719
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 4: is if he was engaging in this behavior for years

720
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 4: and people were a part of this, I mean it's

721
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 4: going to be really hard for those individuals who were

722
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 4: closest to him or kept attending his events to make

723
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 4: a public appearance and say no comment or say I

724
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 4: don't have anything to say about this. It's going to

725
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 4: be really tough. I'm not saying they'll be charged, but

726
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 4: to be in a position where you said you didn't

727
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,399
Speaker 4: see any of this going on, Now, what's the defense? Right?

728
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,280
Speaker 4: His defense is going to be kind of heard rumblings

729
00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 4: of it. It was consensual, Yeah, I engaged in freefs. Yeah

730
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 4: there's a thousand bottles of baby oil. But it might

731
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 4: be weird to you and me, but this is what

732
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 4: I engage in. Everything was consensual. Okay. I think that's

733
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 4: a tough road to go because I think this is

734
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 4: not just about having sex parties. It's about using force,

735
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 4: threats violence. That's what the key is. Transporting people across

736
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 4: state lines, using drugs. It's more nefarious than that. But

737
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 4: I think the question is again going back to transparency.

738
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 4: Will we ever get the full picture of who was involved,

739
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 4: who was abused? Maybe maybe not. Look, I'm a lawyer,

740
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 4: love the law. I think our justice system does a

741
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 4: great many great things, but it's imperfect. It's imperfect in

742
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 4: many ways, and that also means in terms of getting

743
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:46,839
Speaker 4: full transparency. Sometimes it's not about whether somebody did it.

744
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 4: It's not about what the truth is, it's about what

745
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 4: you can prove. And so these are three charges, very

746
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 4: specific charges in terms of getting answers as to everything

747
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 4: Sean Combs did and was a part of. I don't

748
00:37:57,520 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 4: know if this case will help solve all those answers.

749
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 2: I see we mentioned that I first saw your work

750
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 2: with the Johnny Depp amber Heard trial, which was a

751
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 2: televised trial that a lot of people watched. Will this

752
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,919
Speaker 2: because of I mean, some of the horrific allegations made here?

753
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 3: How public will this be?

754
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 2: How much access will people have considering the high level

755
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 2: of public interest in this trial. But it's not, you know,

756
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,880
Speaker 2: a divorce case. It's a serious criminal case.

757
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 4: It won't be. It won't be. Unfortunately, there are no

758
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 4: cameras allowed in federal courts, let alone New York. I

759
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 4: think it's a travesty. I think cameras should be allowed

760
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 4: in every courtroom, including the Supreme Court. Hey, listen, if

761
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:42,320
Speaker 4: you want a courtroom sketch, that's probably going to be

762
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,280
Speaker 4: the best we get, maybe some reporters explaining what's happening

763
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 4: in the court. I covered the Harvey Weinstein trial. I

764
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 4: was in that court a and I did my best

765
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 4: to be in writing back what was going on. But

766
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 4: that visual medium, which I think is so important in

767
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 4: terms of transparency of our legal system, but also important

768
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,400
Speaker 4: for people to see the witness testimony for themselves what

769
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 4: to make of it. I will tell you there's one danger.

770
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 4: One danger, and I think this is actually the importance

771
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 4: of not to tell my organization, but the importance of

772
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,840
Speaker 4: Long Crime and Cydebar. When Johnny Depp Amberhard happened televised,

773
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 4: everybody saw, and I remember, why would Johnny Depp go

774
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:18,320
Speaker 4: to trial? Why would he want all of his dirty

775
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 4: laundry air? And then as the case progressed, you saw

776
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 4: his point of view, You saw the weaknesses of Amber

777
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 4: Heard's case. You saw this, and I thought it was great.

778
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 4: But what happens is, particularly on social media, people take

779
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:32,719
Speaker 4: clips and they actually splice it and they create misinformation.

780
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 4: I was in that courtroom almost every day for that

781
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 4: six week trial, and I remember seeing people splicing clips

782
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 4: together and making Amber Heard look worse than she was.

783
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 4: And that is one of the dangers as well. But

784
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 4: that is why it's also great to have certain organizations

785
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 4: like we do here at Long Crime to give people

786
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 4: the real facts and give people what's happening, and there

787
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 4: has to be an accurate portrayal of what's happening in

788
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:57,360
Speaker 4: that courtroom. So as much as I love I would

789
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 4: welcome cameras in the Sean diddy Comb's trial, we're not

790
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 4: going to get it, And you know, we lose that ability,

791
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,280
Speaker 4: We're not going to have that risk of people splicing

792
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 4: information together. But I also will say that I think

793
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 4: we lose something by not having a how many people

794
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 4: can actually tell you what happened in the Gleainne Maxwell

795
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:21,760
Speaker 4: trial in Jeffrey Epstein transcripts people reading it. The visual

796
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 4: medium is so important, particularly in a case like this.

797
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, when I was covering Britney Spears's trial for ET,

798
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:30,839
Speaker 2: I mean that was when I first learned they don't

799
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,360
Speaker 2: even let you take out your cell phone in the courtroom.

800
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 3: They don't want you.

801
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:37,319
Speaker 2: So you have you're furiously, like you said, writing down

802
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 2: notes on an old school pen and pad and then

803
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 2: bringing it out and reporting on it. And it is

804
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:45,719
Speaker 2: amazing how little the courtroom scenario has evolved with the

805
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 2: evolution of technology. The fact that you just mentioned, you know,

806
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 2: we're going to get courtroom sketches. It's wild that they

807
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:52,799
Speaker 2: don't even let someone take a photograph. I mean, we're

808
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 2: having someone do an oil painting of P Diddy to

809
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 2: show him on you know it is hearing it's kind

810
00:40:58,560 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 2: of antiquated.

811
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:02,840
Speaker 4: Well, I also say, look, you're dealing with very sensitive

812
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 4: subject matter. Imagine these witnesses testifying about what happened to them.

813
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 4: You want to add that safeguard. I understand that it

814
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 4: could be particularly difficult. Actually, remember I was in the

815
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 4: Harvey Weinstein courtroom and there was a witness testifying and

816
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,320
Speaker 4: it was you could hear a pin drop. Nobody was

817
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 4: saying anything. We were listening to her account. It was

818
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:24,240
Speaker 4: right at the moment where she's describing and being abused,

819
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 4: and she thought somebody in the back of the court

820
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 4: had taken a picture and she stopped. She goes, if

821
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 4: someone recording and someone take a picture, and we all

822
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:33,799
Speaker 4: look nobody was. But it kind of shed a light

823
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,920
Speaker 4: on how tough this is for her, and you know,

824
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 4: dealing with a case about what we're dealing with this

825
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 4: subject matter, you can also understand the sensitivity.

826
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:57,240
Speaker 2: And those people deserve their moment in court. On that note,

827
00:41:57,760 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 2: a lot of people as we've said, are wondering about

828
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:02,879
Speaker 2: the celebrit factor here, And you know, I see people

829
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 2: on Twitter pointing out, Hey, Jennifer Lopez was with P

830
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 2: Diddy for years and the kind of strangeness that's coming

831
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:11,319
Speaker 2: to light now, and I think we're all looking back

832
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 2: differently of us or living with Ditty at age thirteen,

833
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:18,279
Speaker 2: or Justin Bieber being fifteen years old and being and

834
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 2: spending a lot of time with Diddy who's much older

835
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 2: than him and way into being a you know, far

836
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 2: and away a legal adult over a kid who couldn't

837
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 2: even drive yet. What do you think is the potential

838
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:31,640
Speaker 2: I don't know how much the indictment indicates of you know,

839
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:34,239
Speaker 2: some of these famous people being called to be witnesses

840
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:35,479
Speaker 2: in the in this case.

841
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 4: Well, first I me just say, at the very least,

842
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 4: it's disturbing. At the very most, it could be something criminal.

843
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:43,799
Speaker 4: We just don't know. Look, as I said, I thought

844
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 4: it was surprising that there was nothing about underage girls

845
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:50,759
Speaker 4: or minors being a part of this. They were not

846
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 4: mentioned all. Now could that change? Yes, is there a

847
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:56,800
Speaker 4: potential that you could have a witness this big celebrity

848
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:59,600
Speaker 4: who we might see just talk about the environment, what

849
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:02,239
Speaker 4: Combs was like, what the parties were like. It has

850
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 4: to be relevant to some aspect of the case. But

851
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 4: one of the reasons we do not know who these

852
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 4: witnesses are, and it's not surprising at the beginning of

853
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:12,759
Speaker 4: this case we don't is we'll probably won't learn it.

854
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,799
Speaker 4: Closer to a trial, They're going to probably have some

855
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 4: very sense of information and these could be I mean,

856
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 4: who attended Shawn Combs's part It wasn't my accountant, Okay,

857
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 4: it wasn't him, It was the you know what I mean.

858
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 4: It was So it was the people who high profile

859
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 4: celebrities that can document what happened. And I imagine that

860
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 4: number could grow, and as more people come forward. By

861
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 4: the way, and as the prosecution builds their case, Seawan

862
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:39,319
Speaker 4: Combs may want to take a deal, And what I

863
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:42,000
Speaker 4: mean by that is he's not not going to get

864
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 4: prison time, but there is a difference between thirty years

865
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:48,839
Speaker 4: in prison and life in prison. So as the prosecutor's

866
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 4: case gets stronger, potentially and more people come forward. In

867
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 4: the United States, attorney said that this is an ongoing investigation.

868
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:59,799
Speaker 4: Perhaps those celebrities are coming forward and giving their side

869
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 4: of events about what happened. But if Justin Bieber is

870
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 4: being subpoenaed or Jennifer Lopez, we don't know. At this point.

871
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 4: We don't know if they've cooperated, but it would certainly

872
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,279
Speaker 4: be telling, and I think that it's I don't think

873
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 4: it's a stretch of the imagination to say they probably

874
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:18,279
Speaker 4: have information. What that information is, how it fits into

875
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,839
Speaker 4: the overall criminal case, We're not sure. But people who

876
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 4: were in Shawn Combe's orbit, there are the people you

877
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 4: want to talk to.

878
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:27,280
Speaker 2: But you said you don't think he will be naming

879
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 2: names because there wouldn't be anything valuable to Diddy to

880
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 2: do that.

881
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 4: Usually in a case like this, you would name names

882
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 4: to strike a deal. But when he is accused of

883
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 4: what he's accused of doing, not just being a participant,

884
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 4: but being the leader. And let's remember what he's accused

885
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:48,799
Speaker 4: of doing. He's accused of sexually abusing multiple people and

886
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 4: using violence and threats and drugs to do what he wants.

887
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:56,120
Speaker 4: That he allegedly obstructed justice as a video of him

888
00:44:56,320 --> 00:45:01,560
Speaker 4: allegedly beating Cassandra Ventura in that open environment a hotel hallway,

889
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 4: I don't imagine that he's not going to get significant

890
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:08,280
Speaker 4: prison time. So even if he's he's fifty four years old,

891
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:11,880
Speaker 4: Let's say they say, you know, fifteen years in prison

892
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:13,759
Speaker 4: or ten years in prison, that's a big chunk of

893
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 4: his life. He may say, listen, I think I can

894
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 4: fight this. You know. One of the questions I keep

895
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 4: getting ask is why didn't Sean comes just leave the

896
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 4: country he new charges were coming, he voluntarily came to

897
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,319
Speaker 4: New York. Why would he do that? Two reasons. One,

898
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 4: I actually think he thought he could make bail. I

899
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:32,720
Speaker 4: think that he thought if I was as cooperative as possible.

900
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 4: I gave my passport over to my lawyers. I told

901
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 4: the prosecutors where I was going. I'm not a flight risk.

902
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 4: I'll be at home arrest for one to two years,

903
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 4: and I think I could actually win this case. He

904
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 4: won in the past. He's never gotten in trouble like

905
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:48,759
Speaker 4: this before. He might be able to say it was consensual.

906
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:50,839
Speaker 4: He might think he can have a chance to beat it.

907
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,279
Speaker 4: The other way is it's really really tough to try

908
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 4: to leave the country. I can always see it on TV,

909
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 4: But to go to a non extradition country to get

910
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 4: a pilot to agree to you to take you there.

911
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:04,359
Speaker 4: If federal prosecutors got wind of him trying to leave,

912
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 4: they would have arrested him on the spot. But I

913
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 4: think the point is he might believe that he can

914
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 4: beat this case and he might want to risk it

915
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,439
Speaker 4: roll the dice as opposed to just taking a deal,

916
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 4: because when you take a deal, you forfeit your rights

917
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:19,360
Speaker 4: to appeal. That's it. You take a deal, you're going away,

918
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:23,399
Speaker 4: unless under extreme circumstances something happened where that deal wasn't

919
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 4: valid or was made under false pretenses. You accept a deal,

920
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 4: you're serving that time. And I don't think he wants

921
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:30,280
Speaker 4: to agree to that.

922
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 1: You mentioned some time. I think what people listening will

923
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 1: want to know too is when is this all going

924
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:37,360
Speaker 1: to play out? You know, we would love for this

925
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:40,320
Speaker 1: to play out immediately, that's not how the legal system works.

926
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 1: So what is the actual timeline? What is next?

927
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 4: So by law, Shawn Combs would have a right to

928
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 4: a speedy trial, kind of put the fire to the

929
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 4: prosecutor's heels. I don't imagine he's going to want to

930
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 4: do that. If you want to actually properly defend this case,

931
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 4: I think they're going to file a motion to basically

932
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:01,240
Speaker 4: say that this is a complex case. There's a lot

933
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 4: to go through, and in federal cases like this, they

934
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 4: might not see a trial for a year, year and

935
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:09,760
Speaker 4: a half, maybe two years. There's a lot of material

936
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 4: to go through, and unfortunately for Sean Combs, we now

937
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:14,760
Speaker 4: have learned that he is going to spend that time.

938
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 4: And I think that is the important thing to remember

939
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 4: is this has to stay in the public consciousness. This

940
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 4: is in a very very important story. And although we

941
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:31,400
Speaker 4: don't have these hearings or the trial to be televised,

942
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:35,759
Speaker 4: what we've seen already through transcripts and reporters and filings

943
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 4: is we're getting a good sense of what this case

944
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 4: is about. But in terms of a resolution, we're probably

945
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 4: not going to see that, maybe till the end of

946
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 4: twenty twenty five, maybe beginning of twenty twenty six, that's

947
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:48,399
Speaker 4: my guess right now, but.

948
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 3: We'll see wow, and he'll be in jail until then.

949
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 4: As of right now, I mean he is trying to

950
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 4: appeal it to a higher court. But here's the difference,

951
00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 4: a little bit of law for you. So when we

952
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:02,239
Speaker 4: had the first judge magistrate judge decided the issue of

953
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:05,879
Speaker 4: bail denied it. It was appealed to a district court

954
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:08,840
Speaker 4: judge who doesn't have to listen to the magistrate judge.

955
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:11,840
Speaker 4: This district court judge can review it, anew can review it.

956
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:15,280
Speaker 4: From the beginning with fresh set eyes was not convinced either.

957
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 4: The next court that they're appealing it to actually has

958
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:22,840
Speaker 4: to give deference to this lower court judge. So unless

959
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:26,920
Speaker 4: they can say this was completely improper, this is going

960
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:29,640
Speaker 4: to be upheld. And I mean, if you hear the

961
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:34,279
Speaker 4: arguments for why the judge denied bail, they make sense.

962
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:35,879
Speaker 4: You might not agree with it, but they make sense.

963
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 4: The idea of him being in danger of flight risk

964
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:40,840
Speaker 4: reaching out to witnesses allegedly that I don't see a

965
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 4: situation where he gets much relief.

966
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:44,680
Speaker 2: Well, Jesse, we're going to let you go, but I

967
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:49,720
Speaker 2: want to ask you, because we've brought up Epstein, Weinstein, R. Kelly,

968
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:52,680
Speaker 2: knowing what you know about those cases and now about

969
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 2: these allegations against P Diddy, where does he fall in

970
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 2: terms of the scope of the alleged criminal network he

971
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 2: was run and how bad all these charges are. Where

972
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 2: does he rank against what are now these very nefarious

973
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 2: and notoriously horrifying, but celebrity and fame filled cases that

974
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:12,360
Speaker 2: we've seen in the public eye.

975
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:17,240
Speaker 4: So there's a lot of similarities. It's the terms of power, influence, fame,

976
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 4: the ability to use these certain means and methods to

977
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:23,759
Speaker 4: get what you want. What you are dealing with is

978
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:28,440
Speaker 4: a consistent theme of people who use this for their

979
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:32,600
Speaker 4: own sexual gratification and desires, and it's pretty disgusting and sick.

980
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 4: I mean, every allegation is a little bit different. But

981
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 4: if you're talking about what Jeffrey Epstein was arrested for,

982
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 4: and you're talking about what R. Kelly was convicted for,

983
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:43,400
Speaker 4: and what you're talking about Sean Colmes is being accused of,

984
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 4: there is this common similarity. But in terms of running

985
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:52,359
Speaker 4: a network, if you believe the allegations put forward by prosecutors,

986
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:57,280
Speaker 4: it's very similar to Epstein and it's very similar to R. Kelly.

987
00:49:57,320 --> 00:49:59,879
Speaker 4: There have been comparisons. We did comparisons on sidebar where

988
00:49:59,920 --> 00:50:01,759
Speaker 4: do it rank? Where does how do you match up

989
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:04,319
Speaker 4: the R. Kelly case versus the Jeffrey Epstein case. We

990
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:08,360
Speaker 4: actually interviewed the former prosecutor who put R. Kelly away

991
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:11,959
Speaker 4: and there are very consistent similarities. And he was charged

992
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:14,520
Speaker 4: with sex trafficking and racketeering. That's what Colmbs is being

993
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:18,440
Speaker 4: FA is charged with, and these are charges that actually

994
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:22,279
Speaker 4: make sense for this conduct. It's deplorable if you take

995
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:24,719
Speaker 4: this as true. Again, he's innocent until proven guilty. But

996
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:29,280
Speaker 4: these are really really sick allegations. And as I said before,

997
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:32,480
Speaker 4: not everybody would be charged with this. Not everyone have

998
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 4: the ability and the means to do stuff like this,

999
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:39,400
Speaker 4: And it's just it's really frightening to think about who

1000
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 4: someone who gave a public perception. I mean, these were

1001
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:44,879
Speaker 4: people who were beloved, not Epstein, but these were people

1002
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:49,880
Speaker 4: who beloved R. Kelly, Harvey Weinstein, the darlings of Hollywood music,

1003
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:55,320
Speaker 4: hip hop entertainment. To see what was allegedly happening behind

1004
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 4: the scenes air quotes is just even to this day,

1005
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 4: it's kind of unimaginable think about.

1006
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:02,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, well, Jesse, thank you so much for

1007
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 2: being with us. And again you guys check out Lawn

1008
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:09,040
Speaker 2: Crime Sidebar Jesse's podcast. This is our one episode on

1009
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:11,279
Speaker 2: the p Diddy situation, but I think he's got at

1010
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:13,399
Speaker 2: least five or six ups, so there's so much more

1011
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 2: in depth.

1012
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:16,880
Speaker 3: And Jesse, I know you spoke with several experts.

1013
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:19,160
Speaker 2: There is there any one episode do you think people

1014
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:21,879
Speaker 2: should start with on sidebar if they're really interested in this.

1015
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:24,840
Speaker 4: Well, I think when we break down the indictment like

1016
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:27,640
Speaker 4: day one, almost in real time, I think I filmed

1017
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:30,239
Speaker 4: that literally twenty minutes after I got it. Wow, that

1018
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:33,640
Speaker 4: was interesting. And then there was an episode where I

1019
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:37,319
Speaker 4: interviewed the former prosecutor who put R. Kelly away and

1020
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:41,480
Speaker 4: comparing that case with this case. I think it's pretty informative.

1021
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:43,759
Speaker 4: So I hope everybody can check it out. And thank

1022
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:45,799
Speaker 4: you both so much for having me on. Such a

1023
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:46,719
Speaker 4: pleasure talking to you both.

1024
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:48,839
Speaker 1: Thank you for your expertise. It was good to meet you,

1025
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:52,080
Speaker 1: and we will probably be talking to you again about this.

1026
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:55,640
Speaker 2: Yes, thank you Jesse. And you can also check him

1027
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 2: out on the Lawn Crime Network. Jesse, so good to

1028
00:51:58,280 --> 00:51:58,759
Speaker 2: see you again.

1029
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:00,439
Speaker 4: Good see you both.

1030
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:04,440
Speaker 1: Thank you, our thanks to Jesse, who's also a contributor

1031
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:07,080
Speaker 1: now on News Nations so you can see him everywhere.

1032
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:10,080
Speaker 1: And I see why by the way the way he

1033
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:14,160
Speaker 1: can simplify and cut this up into bite size little

1034
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 1: nuggets for simpletons like myself, it helps because these are

1035
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 1: big broad terms. Like you said, you hear racketeering, you

1036
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:24,360
Speaker 1: hear these kidnapping, and I know, we know what kidnapping is,

1037
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 1: but you're like, how is this applicable to Sean Colmbs

1038
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:29,920
Speaker 1: and what's going on? So it's nice to have somebody

1039
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:32,399
Speaker 1: really break this apart and kind of spoon feed us

1040
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:35,280
Speaker 1: what's really happening and when will it happen.

1041
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 2: Well, I think he really put into perspective how nefarious

1042
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:41,720
Speaker 2: the soul is. I mean, not that it wasn't lost

1043
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:44,960
Speaker 2: on me, but like you said, sometimes the legal jargon,

1044
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:46,680
Speaker 2: we think of kidnapping and you think of a TV

1045
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 2: show and somebody getting thrown in a trunk, and there

1046
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 2: were a lot of horrible allegations thrown out, but seemingly

1047
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:58,920
Speaker 2: part of this alleged bigger network of you know, and

1048
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:01,920
Speaker 2: like you said, the influence of power and money and

1049
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:04,759
Speaker 2: what that can do. And I'm glad that Jesse brought

1050
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:07,480
Speaker 2: up cass He called her Cassandra Ventura, but she's known

1051
00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:10,960
Speaker 2: as the singer Cassie who had dated Culms from a

1052
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:16,799
Speaker 2: very young age and her bravery and coming forward. You know,

1053
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 2: when you think about the influence he had over people's

1054
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:23,280
Speaker 2: careers from a very young age, that was incredibly powerful,

1055
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:25,160
Speaker 2: and he was incredibly powerful.

1056
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:27,759
Speaker 1: He was a king maker and a lot of these

1057
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:29,280
Speaker 1: people are they can make your career.

1058
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:31,520
Speaker 2: He had that show, Remember the show on him was

1059
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:34,680
Speaker 2: at MTV or vh one making the band. He literally

1060
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 2: had a reality show where he made you know that

1061
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:40,360
Speaker 2: female pop group's career and I know that I'm Aubrey.

1062
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 2: Oda is someone who'd spoken out against him many times

1063
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:46,640
Speaker 2: over the years, but he was also an incredible person

1064
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:50,399
Speaker 2: of influence doing the voter Die campaign, his clothing line,

1065
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:55,840
Speaker 2: appearing in movies, everything that he did made him seem

1066
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:58,920
Speaker 2: to be someone you would idolize. And this is really

1067
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:01,880
Speaker 2: pulled back the veil and we will see where it

1068
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 2: goes from here. So thank you again to Jesse. Go

1069
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:06,719
Speaker 2: check out his podcast if you're interested.

1070
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 3: In more, and we'll see where this goes.

1071
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 1: And we will do it again next time because we

1072
00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:13,200
Speaker 1: have a lot more to talk about. Thanks for listening.

1073
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 1: Follow us on Instagram at the most dramatic pod ever

1074
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:18,200
Speaker 1: and make sure to write us a review and leave

1075
00:54:18,239 --> 00:54:20,680
Speaker 1: us five stars. I'll talk to you next time.