1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of My 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. And hey, 4 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 1: we were out for a little bit, but now we're back, 5 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 1: and you know what, we're back with more cauldrons. Our 6 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 1: brains are like pots, and those pots are full of pots, 7 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 1: and the pots have pots in them, and it's it 8 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 1: never stops. I know, my my wife is still teasing 9 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: me about this. It's like, you guys are still doing 10 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: episodes about cauldrons and soup, and I'm like, yeah, there's 11 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:40,519 Speaker 1: like we're probably going to do three or four of 12 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 1: these total, and we're still not going to cover everything. 13 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:46,160 Speaker 1: And a lot of it comes down to the fact, 14 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 1: and certainly go back and listen to those first two 15 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: episodes if you haven't, comes down to the fact that 16 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 1: we're talking about ancient technology and and since it in 17 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: we inevitably use technology as a way of understanding ourselves, 18 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 1: understand ending the cosmos, etcetera. It ends up becoming a 19 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: part of our not only a discourse, but of course 20 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 1: our religions and uh and so forth. And we see 21 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: that with the cauldron for sure. Yes, though I have 22 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 1: to say one of the big examples we're going to 23 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:16,960 Speaker 1: talk about in this episode. I don't know if the 24 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:18,960 Speaker 1: whole episode will end up focusing on it, but it's 25 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 1: a really interesting historical artifact that is called a cauldron. 26 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 1: Like it is called the Gunda Stroop cauldron. But I 27 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 1: was reading a paper on it, and the very first 28 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 1: sentence of the paper, this author insists that it is 29 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:39,039 Speaker 1: not a cauldron, it is a ceremonial container. Yeah. I 30 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 1: mean this is something that is kind of under the 31 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: surface of many of these discussions, right, and like obviously 32 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: not all of these people would have called this a cauldron, 33 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 1: And then you get into discussions of Okay, is it 34 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 1: a cauldron or a pot? Is it a cauldron or 35 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: a bowl? Is it a cauldron or some other kind? 36 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: You know what exactly? Is the ship billed? Daddy? Oh okay, 37 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 1: this is a call and come on, it's it's a 38 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: it's a big metal pot. I think we can call 39 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 1: it a cauldron. Yeah. So you, as we've discussed in 40 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: previous episodes, we wanted to get into European traditions with 41 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: the cauldron, and uh, cauldrons in Europe are sometimes uncovered 42 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:19,359 Speaker 1: in bogs, places, as we've discussed in the show before, 43 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 1: that had sacred connotations to the ancient people who visited them. 44 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 1: They were a place between land and water, and so 45 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 1: they were also seen as a place between life and death. 46 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 1: So various funeral rites seem to have been conducted at 47 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: various bogs and peat bogs, and given the low oxygen 48 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: acidic soil of bog environments, we often gain a great 49 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 1: deal more insight into what occurred there, especially when it 50 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: comes to organic materials that would have otherwise decayed. So 51 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: you know, bodies were left in these bogs and teared 52 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: in these bogs, and we also see examples of cauldrons 53 00:02:56,320 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 1: and cauldron like artifacts. One notable bog retrieved cauldron is 54 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 1: the Gunda strap cauldron, an incomplete but very stunning silver 55 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: artifact discovered in a bog in Himmland, Denmark in eight now. 56 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,519 Speaker 1: While dating has been a matter of some discussion here, 57 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: exact dating anyway, is suspected to date back to between 58 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: one fifty b c E And the dawn of the 59 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: Common Era. It was evidently given to the bog and 60 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: an act of sacrifice, perhaps to a god or gods, 61 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: but its origins don't seem to be quite Danish. It 62 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 1: It bears images that are generally associated with more Southern cultures, lions, deer, 63 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: griffin's um there. There seems to be a hornet or 64 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: antlered god on there, alongside other potential gods and goddesses. 65 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: It contains scenes of warriors falling in battle, and there 66 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: is actually an image of a magic cauldron. Uh is 67 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: on this cauldron with a gigantic figure, perhaps a god 68 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 1: or a goddess, about to dunk a smaller man into 69 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: its depths. That's right, we got cauldrons on our cauldrons uh. 70 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: And I want to come back to more interpretation of 71 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: this panel later on. Yeah, definitely. As we're talking about 72 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: the gun distract cauldron, look up the images of it. 73 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: That's spelled g U n d E s t r 74 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:21,040 Speaker 1: U p uh. There are a lot of images online 75 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: that show the various panels here, the various uh, the 76 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: various images that we're going to be discussing here, including 77 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 1: this one of what is clearly a giant of some 78 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 1: sort uh taking a man and dunking him head first 79 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:37,720 Speaker 1: uh into a bucket or cauldron or vessel of some 80 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: sort adjacent to this battle scene. So the exact origins 81 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: of the cauldron here are still a matter of debate, 82 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 1: with some pointing to the Thracians or what is and 83 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:51,599 Speaker 1: these would have been people from what is now Bulgaria 84 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: and Romania. Yet there are also Celtic helmets and trumpets 85 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 1: depicted on the cauldron, suggesting it might have been made 86 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,920 Speaker 1: in a place in the aforementioned region where Thracians and 87 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: Celts coexisted, though it's uncertain how this then wound up 88 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: in Denmark. Could have been a tribute, could have been 89 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: spoils of war. Either way, it may be accurate to 90 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: think of the Goodness Drop cauldron and not a product 91 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: of a single culture, a single place, or even a 92 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: single time, but something that was created by mingling cultures 93 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:27,039 Speaker 1: on the move, in part due to Roman expansion and 94 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 1: conquest during this time period, and ultimately constructed by different 95 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:34,480 Speaker 1: artisans over many years. Oh, I didn't think about the 96 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: Roman connection, but yeah, so if this would have been 97 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:39,480 Speaker 1: in the first century b c e. And the middle 98 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 1: of that century was when Julius Caesar himself was waging 99 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 1: a war of conquest in Gaul against Celtic tribes in 100 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 1: that region, So yeah, that's an interesting possibility. So yeah, 101 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: Rob you you you dug this thing up, not not physical, 102 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 1: you had throught it into our outline, but I got 103 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,599 Speaker 1: really obsessed with it, um and I I find this 104 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 1: artifacts so interesting, specifically because of the different mysteries about 105 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 1: it's it's provenance, like you were just talking about, but 106 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:12,840 Speaker 1: also about what it's depicting, because there there are tons 107 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: of what you know, it clearly is showing scenes that 108 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:20,160 Speaker 1: are part of a rich mythology that we apparently know 109 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 1: little to nothing about, and so there are a lot 110 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: of attempts to try to understand what the different panels 111 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:31,279 Speaker 1: are depicting and if and if so, how they connect 112 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: to mythologies that we might know something about. But but 113 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 1: coming back to that provenance question, Yeah, I think it's 114 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:42,359 Speaker 1: so interesting that there are at least three different distinct 115 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:46,279 Speaker 1: sort of regional inputs. Now, as you already mentioned, based 116 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:50,359 Speaker 1: on physical characteristics of the cauldron, like the silversmithing techniques 117 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:53,279 Speaker 1: that were used to create it, it seems to be 118 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 1: a product of southeastern Europe. Yes, but most scholars pointing 119 00:06:56,839 --> 00:07:00,160 Speaker 1: to uh to the metal working techniques of the Thracians 120 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: who live in As you said, what is today Bulgaria 121 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: or Romania, and I was trying to figure out what 122 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: are some examples of this distinctive style that's uh, that's 123 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: so strongly linked to Thracian culture. Well, I was reading 124 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 1: about this on the website for the National Museum of Denmark, 125 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 1: which has a lot of great materials about the Gundistrict Cauldron, 126 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: and they compare the gun District Cauldron to the metal 127 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: working on a gilded silver pitcher from Bulgaria from roughly 128 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: three hundred b C. And looking at it, I would agree, Yeah, 129 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: the techniques and the artistic style look extremely similar. Like 130 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: the way the animal figures are embossed. Remember that this 131 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 1: is not just like an illustration or carving, but this 132 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 1: is like hammered and punched metal. So it has raised 133 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: animal figures with like textures that you could feel with 134 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 1: your fingers running over them. And those textures are very 135 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: similar between the two works. So like the animal figures 136 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: are embossed and punched with patterns of exture that seemed 137 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 1: to indicate hair or fur, and it's extremely distinctive. You 138 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 1: see some of the same patterns on the on the 139 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: apparent herring bone patterns on the clothing of the people 140 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: on the gun district cauldron. So based on the techniques, 141 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 1: it's pretty clear that it was created by an artisan 142 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: who had been trained in the traditions of Southeastern Europe. 143 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: But as you also said, the imagery depicts objects and 144 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 1: motifs associated with the culture of the Celts who were 145 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: in more kind of western Central Europe at the time. Uh. 146 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: And a few examples of this would be a Celtic 147 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:38,679 Speaker 1: musical instrument known as the car nix, which we can 148 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: discuss in more detail later, certain types of Celtic ceremonial 149 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:48,439 Speaker 1: jewelry such as an object called a torque, which I 150 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: can also get to in a minute, and things like that. 151 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:54,439 Speaker 1: So those are your two inputs. It's like Celtic subject 152 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: matter done in the metal working style of the Thracians 153 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 1: or of Southeastern Europe, and then it's found in the 154 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 1: territory of neither one. It's found up in Jutland in 155 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: modern day Denmark in a bog So yeah, you really 156 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 1: have to wonder how all this comes together, Like did 157 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: a Celtic person commission a Southeastern European silversmith to make 158 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 1: a pot containing images from their culture and mythology, or 159 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: maybe did it somehow arise from a border region where 160 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: these cultures came into contact, and then somehow this item 161 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 1: ends up in the bogs of Jutland. It would be 162 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:33,080 Speaker 1: like finding what a Bulgarian band that only does covers 163 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 1: of Celtic music in modern Denmark and wondering like how 164 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: they came to be there. Ah, yes, the thrash metal 165 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 1: polka bands of Canada. Now I wanted to mention just 166 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 1: a little bit more about the state that this cauldron, 167 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,959 Speaker 1: the so called cauldron, was in when it was discovered. 168 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:55,719 Speaker 1: Uh So, altogether this object weighs about nine kilograms or 169 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 1: about twenty pounds, and it appears to have been deposited 170 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: in the ball deliberately, especially because it was disassembled when 171 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 1: it was put into the bog. So this cauldron has 172 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: many detachable features, so the rim can be taken off, 173 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 1: and the silver image panels which line the sides of 174 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 1: the pot, those can be taken off, and when it 175 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: was found, they were all removed and placed inside the vessel. 176 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: So I don't know, you see that, And that makes 177 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: it sound like this wasn't just sort of like it 178 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 1: wasn't like it fell off a wagon or something. That 179 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 1: sounds like somebody put it in there. There is no 180 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:33,559 Speaker 1: text anywhere on it, so it's not like a political 181 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 1: cartoon where everything's labeled so you know what it means. 182 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:40,559 Speaker 1: It's you just have to infer from the imagery. Uh So, 183 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: so that makes it difficult to identify things. But the imagery, 184 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: as you already said, Rob, is is fascinating. There are 185 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 1: animals you would not expect to see. There are lions, uh, 186 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 1: there are images of gods that we know little or 187 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:58,559 Speaker 1: nothing about. In fact, there are even images of elephants. 188 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: Ah and yeah that that should be surprising, especially like 189 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 1: where are these images of elephants coming from? Yeah, exactly. 190 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 1: So at this point I just want to pick out 191 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: a few of the individual plates and focus on what's 192 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: going on on them, one at a time. So the 193 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 1: first one I wanted to look at, I've got a 194 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 1: picture for you to look at, Rob, but of course 195 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 1: we will describe it for for you out there, the listener. 196 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:22,679 Speaker 1: So it shows a god or a mythic figure that's 197 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: mostly human inform, except it has antlers like a stag 198 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 1: growing from its head. And this figure is sitting cross 199 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: legged right next to an actual stag, and then on 200 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 1: the other side of it. There are a bunch of 201 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:41,199 Speaker 1: other animals there, four legged, predatory looking animals that might 202 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 1: be dogs or maybe lions, I can't tell for sure. 203 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: And then I love this. A tiny dude riding on 204 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:51,680 Speaker 1: the back of a fish is it is now compared 205 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 1: to the god with the antlers, the dude is much smaller, 206 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: But I don't know if it's a question of perspective. 207 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:00,079 Speaker 1: Maybe he's farther away, or maybe maybe this is just 208 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 1: separate imagery, or maybe the god is supposed to be 209 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 1: really big, or maybe the dude's supposed to be really small. 210 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 1: I can't tell what the deal with the size differences. 211 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:11,560 Speaker 1: But if it is a regular sized man on the 212 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 1: fish is back, that is a very big fish. It's 213 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 1: got to be like dolphin or shark sized. Yeah. And 214 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: there's also a kind of a different flavor to these 215 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 1: two images. So they the hornet or ant alerd god 216 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: or whatever this being is supposed to be is in 217 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: it has has a kind of a serene pose. His 218 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 1: legs his or her legs are crossed, uh, holding us 219 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,719 Speaker 1: what a serpent in one hand? Uh? And I'm not 220 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 1: sure what the implement is in the other hand. Oh, well, 221 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: that's Uh, that is a Celtic object. Actually, I think 222 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 1: this is an object that is bigger than just Celtic culture, 223 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 1: but it was big in Celtic culture called a torque, 224 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: which is a type of metal ring worn around the 225 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:56,319 Speaker 1: neck that seems to have had significance um for multiple 226 00:12:56,400 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 1: Iron Age European culture, symbolizing power. It's power status or rank, 227 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: sort of like a crown. So if somebody's wearing a torque, 228 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 1: that would seem to indicate that they are a leader 229 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: or a high status person. So this figure with the 230 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 1: antlers has the torque in his right hand, and then 231 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 1: in the other hand he's grasping, like you said, the 232 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 1: neck of a giant snake. But I just wanted to 233 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 1: point out that the snake has features on its head, 234 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 1: which one scholar I was looking at identified as rams horns. 235 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: So that's a snake with ram horns. Oh wow. So 236 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: that there's clearly a lot going on here, as as 237 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:37,359 Speaker 1: one often finds with depictions of powerful individuals or deities 238 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:40,559 Speaker 1: or demigods. Uh. And and it's one of these images 239 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 1: that I think it speaks across the ages. When you 240 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 1: look at this, you get a sense of power and 241 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 1: divinity from it. Meanwhile, the individual writing the fish or dolphin, 242 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 1: I I it looks more comical to me, and I 243 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: makes me wonder if there is in fact it is 244 00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:00,120 Speaker 1: supposed to be comical on some level, like if even 245 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:02,440 Speaker 1: if it is a god of some sort, maybe it 246 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: is a trickster god. Maybe it's something that is not 247 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:09,439 Speaker 1: supposed to be interpreted with the same air of reverence 248 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: as we have with this this central individual. Yeah, I agree, 249 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 1: fish boy looks very funny, and I think it's partly 250 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 1: in the way his knees are bent and he's sort 251 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: of reaching forward while riding the fish, almost as if 252 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 1: you can imagine him kind of uh rocking and kicking 253 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: back and forth and saying like go faster, come on now. Obviously, 254 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 1: another possible explanation for differences could also be different authors 255 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: over time. But as we alluded to earlier, but an 256 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 1: interesting thing I wanted to point out again. So there's 257 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: a lot we don't know about what these images are 258 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: supposed to depict. But this antler headed god who is 259 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: holding a torque in one hand, is also wearing a 260 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 1: torque around his neck, so he appears to be a 261 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 1: leader or high status figure himself. But maybe by holding 262 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 1: a torque in one hand. Uh. I don't know, just speculating, 263 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: but maybe it means he can also make a king. 264 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: He can also give the crown to another thank But 265 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: to go on to discuss another panel, Rob, I wanted 266 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 1: to come back to one you sort of mentioned earlier, 267 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: the panel that has the cauldron dunking on it, because 268 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: this panel is really interesting and there was some good 269 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: interpretive material on the National Museum of Denmark website about it. 270 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: So this is one of the interior wall panels that 271 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 1: this would be lining the inner wall of the cauldron, 272 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: and there's a lot going on on it, so let's 273 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 1: try to break it down piece by piece. So one 274 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 1: thing is that there is a row of soldiers on 275 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: the bottom and they are on foot, they're holding spears 276 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: and shields, and they are moving towards the left side 277 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 1: of the panel. And then above them is a straight 278 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: horizontal tree branch with little leaves forking off of it. 279 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: And then above the tree branch are soldiers on horseback 280 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: moving in the opposite direction of the procession. Below they're 281 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: moving to the right side of the panel. And then 282 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: on the lower right side of the panel, there are 283 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 1: three warriors playing instruments that are known as carnacs. When 284 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 1: I first looked at these things, I had no idea 285 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 1: what they were, but I looked them up, and these 286 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: are a well known type of artifact. Rob I've got 287 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: a close up for you to look at here. But 288 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: the car knicks was a wind instrument used by the 289 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: Celts of the Iron Age. It is essentially a giant 290 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: s shaped trumpet, but most of the length of this 291 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 1: trumpet is a vertical pipe reaching far up above your head. 292 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: So picture a kind of long periscope tube, except it's 293 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 1: not going to your eye, it's connecting to your mouth, 294 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: and you blow through it, and then the sound comes 295 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: out of this tube that ends maybe a whole other 296 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 1: person's height above your head. Uh. And so the the 297 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: bell art of this instrument, the part where the sound 298 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: comes out, would often be shaped to look like an 299 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: open jawed head of an animal such as a dragon 300 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 1: or a serpent, or maybe sometimes a bore. The carnyx 301 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 1: was identified in ancient literary sources as associated with warfare, 302 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:18,879 Speaker 1: so you might play it on the battlefield for a 303 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:23,160 Speaker 1: coordination of tactics or for intimidation of the enemy long 304 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: distance communication. There you go, but what's going on with 305 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 1: the warriors on the bottom row of the panel, Well, 306 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 1: they seem to be moving toward the left side, where 307 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: one by one they will face a god of some 308 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,879 Speaker 1: kind depicted as a giant who is you know, at 309 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 1: least twice as big, a probably three times as big 310 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: as the warriors, and the god or the giant will 311 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,640 Speaker 1: grasp a warrior with both hands, turn him upside down, 312 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:53,440 Speaker 1: and then dunk him head first into a cauldron. Now, 313 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:56,439 Speaker 1: I think there's plenty of room to question the the 314 00:17:56,520 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 1: interpretation of these panels. Again, they don't come with words 315 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,479 Speaker 1: on them, so they don't explain, and they don't super 316 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:07,680 Speaker 1: clearly connect to mythology that we know about. Connections that 317 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,199 Speaker 1: would be established have to be kind of inferred. They 318 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:14,919 Speaker 1: might be kind of tenuous. But the curators of the 319 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:19,160 Speaker 1: National Museum of Denmark argue that the warriors on foot 320 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:22,160 Speaker 1: in the bottom of this panel, they are being represented 321 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 1: as probably in the underworld, meaning that they were just 322 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 1: killed in battle, and so they're being depicted as I 323 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 1: don't know, the the dead forms of their former selves. 324 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:34,440 Speaker 1: And you can tell they're in the underworld because they 325 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 1: are underneath this horizontal tree branch Apparently the tree branch 326 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 1: probably denotes the earth itself and the division between world. 327 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:46,440 Speaker 1: So if the tree branches is the earth, what's below 328 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: it is the underworld, and what's above it is some 329 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: kind of heavenly afterlife, and from here the the The 330 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:54,959 Speaker 1: interpretation goes on to say that as these figures are 331 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: dunked into the cauldron by the God, their fate is decided, 332 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 1: and this fate might include being resurrected or reincarnated in 333 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: some exalted state, such as in this heavenly realm up 334 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:11,199 Speaker 1: above on the top of the panel, and perhaps as 335 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,919 Speaker 1: a person of higher status or rank. I remember that 336 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 1: the soldiers shown above the branch were on horseback, so 337 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:21,199 Speaker 1: maybe this means a fallen warrior could be resurrected as 338 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:24,360 Speaker 1: an officer or as a member of the equestrian classes 339 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:28,360 Speaker 1: higher socioeconomic class. And I thought it was really interesting 340 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 1: how this recalls the imagery of cauldrons used in visions 341 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: of Hell and multiple very different Asian cultures that we 342 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: talked about in the previous part of this series, where 343 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:41,159 Speaker 1: the cauldrons were not only an instrument of torture in 344 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: the realms of Hell, but they were secondarily a symbol 345 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 1: of transformation into something more honorable and refined, if you 346 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,680 Speaker 1: could be reincarnated as a sort of better being after 347 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: the stint in hell and it it makes me think again, 348 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 1: Like seeing this motif a rise in multiple different cultures, 349 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:02,719 Speaker 1: separated rightly in time and geography and language and and 350 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 1: all these different barriers, makes one wonder if there's not 351 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 1: a common universal human experience underlying that theme, which would 352 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 1: seem to me to be very likely the transformation of 353 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 1: raw food into cooked food, or of dirty clothing into 354 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: clean clothing, as would be just you know, natural things 355 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:24,160 Speaker 1: where we see transformed by the work of the cauldron. Yeah, 356 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:27,679 Speaker 1: like the basic nature of of cauldron technology and the 357 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,879 Speaker 1: idea that it it enables transformation, It does seem to 358 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 1: be something you just see in culture after culture after culture, 359 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: just across vast distances on the planet. And the laundry 360 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:41,199 Speaker 1: note is is important too. I've seen that pop up 361 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: in a few different sources pointing to specific cauldrons of 362 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:49,880 Speaker 1: note uh, And often discussions regarding that cauldron come back 363 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 1: to cooking and the preparation of food, the transformation of 364 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:57,720 Speaker 1: of of of organic matter into some sort of delicious 365 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 1: or hearty dish, but also sometimes laundry is discussed as 366 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,639 Speaker 1: a possibility as well, And uh, I mean that is 367 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:06,880 Speaker 1: a transformation we I think we tend to totally take 368 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,719 Speaker 1: for granted that you can have, you know, foul and 369 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:14,200 Speaker 1: soiled clothing, and yet here is this fabulous specialized cauldron 370 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,639 Speaker 1: in your house or at the local laundry map or 371 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,120 Speaker 1: in the basement of your building that you put these 372 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:22,440 Speaker 1: items into and you come back later and behold, they 373 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,439 Speaker 1: have been refreshed, they are they are new again. Yeah, man, 374 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:27,879 Speaker 1: who doesn't love clean laundry, especially clean sheets, is a 375 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:31,639 Speaker 1: wonderful thing. Okay, I got another panel I want to 376 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,119 Speaker 1: focus on. This one's very special and it may be 377 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 1: the most important of all of them due to its 378 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 1: placement within the cauldron, and that is the panel that 379 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 1: is in the bottom of the cauldron bowl. Now I 380 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: might not have even noticed this one just by looking 381 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:48,919 Speaker 1: at pictures of the plates on the Internet, because a 382 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 1: lot of the photography that's out there focuses on the 383 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:54,959 Speaker 1: side plates for good reason. But I actually saw this 384 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,919 Speaker 1: one brought up in a curator's video feature from the 385 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: British Museum that was focused on the District cauldron. I 386 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 1: think maybe when um, when they had it on loan 387 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 1: or something. But it was by an archaeologist named Julia Farley, 388 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 1: and this was really interesting, so that this panel is 389 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 1: at the bottom of the pot, so if you're looking 390 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 1: down into the pot, it's what you'd see at the 391 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: very bottom, assuming the pots empty. And because of that feature, 392 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:21,359 Speaker 1: I started to think about how if the pot had 393 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 1: something in it, like soup or whatever. I don't know 394 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: if this was ever used to serve sup probably not, 395 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,639 Speaker 1: actually more more of a ceremonial vessel, but I don't know. 396 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,199 Speaker 1: I guess I couldn't rule that out. Um, if it 397 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 1: had anything in it, this panel would be hidden and 398 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 1: then it would be revealed as the contents were taken 399 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 1: out of the bull. Um. So what what do you 400 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: see in this panel? Well, it depicts a gigantic bull reclining. 401 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,399 Speaker 1: When I first saw it, it looked to me like 402 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 1: it was kind of, I don't know, lazily resting. But 403 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: I've seen it written about as if this bull is 404 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,879 Speaker 1: laying on the ground because it has been wounded, but 405 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:00,679 Speaker 1: I couldn't tell that just by looking at it. So 406 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 1: for whatever reason, it's a bull laying on its side. 407 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 1: But then with its head propped up, and the head 408 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 1: of the bull is actually a very prominently vertically raised 409 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 1: three D feature. Technically, the whole thing, like the other panels, 410 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: is three D. It's all hammered and stamped and embossed 411 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 1: into three D textures, but the head of the bull 412 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 1: is sort of more three D than the rest, like 413 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 1: it really rises into prominence off the base. And then 414 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 1: behind the back of the bull we see a goddess 415 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 1: or a female warrior posed with sword raised and her 416 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,360 Speaker 1: legs are bent. They're kind of tucked up under her 417 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 1: as if she were jumping, like as if she were 418 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,159 Speaker 1: in midair at the peak of a great leap, and 419 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,959 Speaker 1: she's going to come down with the sword and strike 420 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 1: and slay this giant bull. So it's an action shot. 421 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 1: There are also three dogs in the image. It seems 422 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 1: two of them seem to be alive and helping this 423 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,440 Speaker 1: warrior or goddess slay the bull, and the other dog 424 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:03,880 Speaker 1: appears to be dead. Um. But something I noticed also 425 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 1: about this bull. So it's got this raised head coming 426 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: up off of the body, turning at an angle, and 427 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:13,119 Speaker 1: then the bull has what looked like two holes behind 428 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 1: its eyes exactly where the horns would emerge from. And 429 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: I wondered, does this mean that the bull uh at 430 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 1: some point had some kind of horns I don't know, 431 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:27,160 Speaker 1: maybe made of a different material coming out of these holes. Uh, 432 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: that may be known. And if so, I just didn't 433 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: find anything about it. So so I don't know. But 434 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,120 Speaker 1: if so, I like, I wonder what those horns were. 435 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 1: And again I don't know if this is significant, but 436 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:40,879 Speaker 1: if you had anything opaque in the pot, as the 437 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:44,680 Speaker 1: pot was emptied, you would first see the bulls raised 438 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 1: head coming up out of that opaque material. But then 439 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: as more and more was taken out of the pot, 440 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,680 Speaker 1: as the bottom was revealed, it would reveal the goddess 441 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 1: or the female warrior, this person with the sword and 442 00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 1: her three hounds surrounding the bull, ready to strike. And 443 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:01,439 Speaker 1: I thought that was a kind of interesting. It's almost 444 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 1: like by taking the contents out of this bowl, it 445 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 1: would be pulling back the curtain on the dramatic aspect 446 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 1: of the scene. Wow. Yeah, that's a lot to unpack 447 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,160 Speaker 1: because on one hand, there's just sort of the I guess, 448 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:17,679 Speaker 1: the basic pleasure to be had, and this potential scene 449 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,640 Speaker 1: of like the level of super lowering and revealing horns 450 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,919 Speaker 1: and then head and then beast. Uh Not unlike some 451 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 1: of the novelty mugs you'll find today, where there's some 452 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 1: sort of uh like I don't know, like a cartoon 453 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 1: octopus on the bottom of the mug. You drink half 454 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 1: of your hot cocoa and there's an octopus peering up 455 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,880 Speaker 1: at you. Uh. I mean that alone is fun. That 456 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:41,360 Speaker 1: they alone transcends time and space. But yeah, on top 457 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 1: of it, to have this dramatic action scene playing out 458 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 1: and then the question arise as well, then is this 459 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,920 Speaker 1: a story that I mean? What? What? Did it take 460 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: place beneath a liquid? Did it take place within a caldron? 461 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,920 Speaker 1: You know? What is the exact connection? How does having 462 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 1: it at the bottom of the cauldron? Um? Well, what 463 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,359 Speaker 1: does that illustrate? What does that do? What is the 464 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,120 Speaker 1: function of that? Yeah? I love this, though I want 465 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:09,199 Speaker 1: to be clear, I'm not I am not arguing that 466 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 1: this was used to serve soup. I don't know of 467 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:14,880 Speaker 1: any evidence of that. So I guess we don't know 468 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,439 Speaker 1: what went into this bowl. If anything, we don't know 469 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 1: exactly how it was used. But another question is what 470 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,639 Speaker 1: does the killing of this bull symbolize? So clearly this 471 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,879 Speaker 1: goddess is is, you know, ready to bring the sword 472 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,680 Speaker 1: down on its neck, but we don't know what that 473 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,639 Speaker 1: act meant. And uh, this is another one of the 474 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: mysteries of the cauldron. The National Museum of Denmark page 475 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 1: it has an interpretation that the bull may symbolize chaos, 476 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 1: and the woman who is fighting and killing the bull 477 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,120 Speaker 1: is doing so in order to protect the cosmic order, 478 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:54,119 Speaker 1: though I'm not sure exactly what supports that speculation, but 479 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,679 Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, personally, I'm just intoxicated by the 480 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 1: mysteries of of like what are the stories that are 481 00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 1: be being told in these little metal comic strip panels 482 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:05,879 Speaker 1: with no words on them, Like we don't know what 483 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,879 Speaker 1: the surrounding context is and uh and and I I 484 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,239 Speaker 1: really wish we could. Yeah, yeah, because they I mean, 485 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 1: the context would have been clear to to to someone 486 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,879 Speaker 1: at least a privileged few within the given culture, if 487 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 1: not everyone within the given culture. Uh So, yeah, it's 488 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 1: it's fascinating, fascinating mystery. Thank thank you, thank you. Now 489 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 1: I was looking up to see if there were any 490 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 1: good like papers that were using clues in the images 491 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 1: to try to understand better what stories were being told 492 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,360 Speaker 1: or what the significance of these gods and mythic figures were. 493 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 1: One paper I found that caught my attention was by 494 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 1: a scholar named David Alexander Nance, called Plate F on 495 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 1: the Gun District Cauldron Symbols of Spring and Fertility, publishing 496 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 1: a journal called and thropo Zoologica in twenty nineteen. And 497 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,160 Speaker 1: thropo Zoologica a journal put out by the French Museum 498 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,359 Speaker 1: of Natural History, UH that seems to be focusing on 499 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 1: the role of non human animals in the history of humankind, 500 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 1: and I looked up Nance. He is a scholar at 501 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 1: the University of Aberdeen. Now specifically, this paper adds it 502 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: tries to do a zoological identification of a bird species 503 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 1: on one of the plates in order to help elucidate 504 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 1: what the mythic significance may have been. So Nance notes 505 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 1: that on this plate called Plate F, which broadly I 506 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,479 Speaker 1: mean so, first of all, it shows this huge face 507 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 1: of like a giant figure with long hair, and then 508 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 1: other depictions of uh what maybe the same figure in 509 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:49,120 Speaker 1: like smaller uh scenes around the big head. And then 510 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 1: the big figure with long hair is holding a bird 511 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 1: in its hand. And then there are also birds and 512 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 1: I think cats and dogs flanking it in different places, 513 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 1: but Nance's specifically looking at the birds and says, hey, 514 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 1: wait a second. The birds on this plate have a 515 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 1: very distinctive morphological feature, which is zygo d Actually zygod 516 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 1: actually is a foot morphology where there are two claws 517 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 1: facing forward and two facing backward. And given that characteristic, 518 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 1: there are really only a few types of birds it 519 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,479 Speaker 1: could be. It's obviously not most of them, so so 520 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 1: the only real candidate for this is the common cuckoo 521 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 1: or Coculus canoris. And this is interesting because the cuckoo 522 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: connects to a whole other known nexus of of mythological significance, 523 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 1: so Nance writes quote. This species is also identified on 524 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 1: a number of other widespread European artifacts where it was 525 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,720 Speaker 1: previously thought to be a bird of prey. The plate 526 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,840 Speaker 1: depicts a goddess in triplicate flanked by two cuckoos releasing 527 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,240 Speaker 1: the first cuckoo of spring. The bird is an obligate 528 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 1: brood parasite, laying its eggs in other birds nests, leading 529 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:03,440 Speaker 1: to misconceptions of its life cycle, and the misconceptions about 530 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 1: cuckoos in antiquity were that there were no female cuckoos, 531 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 1: that there were only males, and the male birds mated 532 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 1: with the host females of all the other bird species. 533 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 1: Now that's not true, but apparently Nance argues that that 534 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,719 Speaker 1: was believed in the ancient world, and for this reason, 535 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 1: the cuckoo's symbolized male fertility across many different cultures in 536 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,040 Speaker 1: its summer range. So during the summer months in in 537 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 1: all across Eurasia, this this bird would fly in and 538 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 1: then it would be associated with fertility and sometimes with 539 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 1: European fertility goddesses like the bird might sort of be 540 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 1: it's implied consort. Oh that's fascinating. I mean, that reminds 541 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:53,719 Speaker 1: me of various misinterpretations regarding spontaneous generation or the idea 542 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 1: that the scara beetle, you know, the dung beetle, emerges 543 00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: from the dong. That it is that it is the 544 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 1: thing that that is borne out of of of the 545 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,640 Speaker 1: dirt and of the waist, as opposed to enufl life 546 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 1: form that's making use of this material. Oh yeah, that's interesting. So, 547 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 1: but to be biologically precise, what is happening with the 548 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 1: cuckoos is that they are depositing their own So cuckoos 549 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 1: are mating with cuckoos, and then they're laying cuckoo eggs, 550 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 1: they're just laying in the nests of other birds and uh, 551 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 1: and so that's known as brood parasitism. But because of 552 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,960 Speaker 1: the confusion of like not seeing them with their own nests, 553 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 1: they were just like, yeah, they're only male cuckoos and 554 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 1: they're just uh, they essentially said that they were cook 555 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 1: holding the male birds of other species. Yeah, brood parasitism 556 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:43,960 Speaker 1: is a is a fascinating topic, and of course we 557 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 1: see this in the insect world as well. Yeah, I 558 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:48,719 Speaker 1: mean it's it's not certainly but not confined to just 559 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 1: these birds. Fascinating topic we could easily come back to 560 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,720 Speaker 1: because they're also even with the cuckoo there. As I recall, 561 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: there are a lot of ins and outs regarding m uh, 562 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 1: the enforcement of of this poll see yes, both with 563 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:06,520 Speaker 1: actions that if sometimes are sometimes compared to almost mafia 564 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 1: tactics and uh. And also just like how does the 565 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 1: egg appear and how is there like a physical deception 566 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,280 Speaker 1: or mimicry going on? Yeah, I think there's widely believed 567 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: to be like just an ongoing evolutionary arms race between 568 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:24,200 Speaker 1: the host species ability to recognize cuckoo eggs and be like, 569 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 1: wait a minute, no, and then the cuckoo's ability to 570 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: adapt to that and further blend in oh but sorry. 571 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: The other thing about the cuckoo that would make it 572 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 1: probably associated with fertility would be its seasonal migratory patterns, 573 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 1: because this is one of the migratory birds that would 574 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 1: show up in UH in northern stretches of Europe and 575 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 1: Asia in the summer months, and it was so it 576 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: might show up in spring. You would say like, oh, 577 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 1: there's the there's the first cuckoo of the of the 578 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,480 Speaker 1: warm season. And so it would thus be associated also 579 00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 1: with the regeneration of plants and things like that, having 580 00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 1: fertility associations for that reason. Anyway, I guess we'll call 581 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 1: it there for the Gun District cauldron. But I find 582 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,720 Speaker 1: this such an intriguing artifact. I don't know, like, every 583 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 1: time there's a new paper UH providing some some interpretation 584 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 1: of of what's going on in these panels, I want 585 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,960 Speaker 1: to know, yeah, yeah, And and by all means, when 586 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 1: you get a chance, you're not driving a vehicle or something, 587 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,320 Speaker 1: look up images of the Gun District cauldron. And certainly 588 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 1: if you have access to the Gun District cauldron. If 589 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 1: you can go see it at a museum uh now 590 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 1: or in the future, please do so. If you can 591 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:30,480 Speaker 1: steal it, you know, tuck it into the bridges and 592 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 1: get it out of there and not steal the Gun 593 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 1: District cauldron. Um Now. Cauldrons are also found in rivers, 594 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 1: which which is interesting. Rivers also have, of course have 595 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 1: divine importance in many cultures and one example is the 596 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 1: Battersea Cauldron that was found in the river River Thames 597 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 1: at Battersea in South London. It's a large riveted bronze 598 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 1: vessel with signs of maintenance over many years. Originally crafted 599 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 1: an estimated three thousand years ago, so this would have 600 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:07,880 Speaker 1: been a highly advanced example of metalwork from this time period. Now. 601 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,920 Speaker 1: This cauldron is mentioned in a blog entry on the 602 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:15,320 Speaker 1: British Museum website by Jennifer Wexler and Neil Wilkins titled 603 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,359 Speaker 1: Cauldrons and flesh Hooks between the Living and the Dead 604 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 1: in Ancient Britain and Ireland. And yeah they they've also 605 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 1: point out an example of a three thousand year old 606 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,920 Speaker 1: flesh hook found in a bog in Northern Ireland and 607 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 1: when complete, when one piece. It would have been a 608 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:36,799 Speaker 1: long metal and wood rod decorated with bronze birds. The 609 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 1: hook would have been used in ritual feasting for the 610 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 1: purpose of pulling cooked meat from a cauldron, and such 611 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,600 Speaker 1: tools were also used when working with with hides and 612 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:51,800 Speaker 1: tanning pits and so forth. But this particular artifact also 613 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 1: had birds on it, which is pretty interesting. I'm going 614 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 1: to read just a quote from that British Museum blog 615 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:02,359 Speaker 1: post quote. The two sets of birds may have represented 616 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 1: opposing forces in the world of ancient people. Swans are 617 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,400 Speaker 1: white birds of the water, but also associated with the 618 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,840 Speaker 1: sun and light, and the family group suggests fertility because 619 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,839 Speaker 1: they're depicted in a family group here. The ravens, on 620 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:21,880 Speaker 1: the other hand, are blackbirds of the air and divine communication, 621 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:27,239 Speaker 1: connected with wild uplands. Their dark color and gruesome dietary 622 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 1: habits were connected with war and death. These differences may 623 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,960 Speaker 1: have represented the competing forces of good and evil in 624 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,279 Speaker 1: the world. But both of them will help you get 625 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:39,640 Speaker 1: your meat out of the pot. Yeah, but again, remember 626 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:44,719 Speaker 1: the pot is no mere pot. Uh, there's no you know, 627 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,719 Speaker 1: there are no technologies this central to to human existence 628 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,480 Speaker 1: that don't take on all these other meanings and metaphors 629 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,279 Speaker 1: and so forth. So the cauldron is it's where you're 630 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,400 Speaker 1: cooking your meat, it's where you may be doing your laundry. 631 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:02,600 Speaker 1: But that cauldron is also the universe. That cauldron is 632 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:07,760 Speaker 1: also life itself. It is the whole experience of humanity. Wow, 633 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:10,879 Speaker 1: that's some profound fond Yeah, we didn't even get into 634 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:14,359 Speaker 1: fond There you go, another miniature cauldron. Well yeah we did. 635 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,120 Speaker 1: Come on, flash, this is basically fond talking. You can 636 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 1: get any kind of I guess with fond I have 637 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:22,799 Speaker 1: so little experience with it. I just instantly think of 638 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:26,680 Speaker 1: only cheese and bread, and yeah, it's I I for 639 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,799 Speaker 1: I forget sometimes that there's a richer tradition of of fond. 640 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,840 Speaker 1: I mean there are also other, you know, wonderful traditions 641 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: of you know, communal feasting from heated bowls uh, you know, 642 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:42,920 Speaker 1: Chinese hot pot traditions and also um uh and uh 643 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:44,960 Speaker 1: and and certainly that's a that's a fun experience if 644 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 1: you get a chance to partake of that. I don't 645 00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:49,799 Speaker 1: think I've ever actually done that. But that's usually with 646 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:53,480 Speaker 1: a not with like um, like an oil like you 647 00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:55,279 Speaker 1: might use to cook and fondu. But that's like a 648 00:36:55,840 --> 00:37:00,399 Speaker 1: highly flavored broth. Yeah, yeah, broth. And they you can 649 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:02,600 Speaker 1: find you plenty of modern restaurants. In fact, I went 650 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:04,520 Speaker 1: to one, I want to say this was in Florida, 651 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,879 Speaker 1: where not only were there was there a hot pot 652 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 1: at your table, but there was also a conveyor belt 653 00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:13,800 Speaker 1: going through like a little sushi conveyor belt, except instead 654 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:17,600 Speaker 1: of sushi, it contained various plated ingredients that you could 655 00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:20,879 Speaker 1: add to the hot pot. Oh that sounds awesome. Yeah 656 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,799 Speaker 1: it was. It was quite a parade of meats and vegetables. 657 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,919 Speaker 1: But that's another thing worth worth keeping in mind too 658 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,279 Speaker 1: with these with these cauldrons, you know, it's like, this 659 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,280 Speaker 1: is the pot, is this this this thing at the center, 660 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,160 Speaker 1: It is this thing on the fire. It is the 661 00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:38,560 Speaker 1: thing that is then communally used. So it you can 662 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,280 Speaker 1: you can easily imagine how it just becomes this hyper 663 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:44,799 Speaker 1: magnet for meaning, especially in the ancient world. You know, 664 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,160 Speaker 1: I keep thinking back to this, uh, this plate on 665 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:49,640 Speaker 1: the Gun District cauldron, the one where the giant god 666 00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:53,080 Speaker 1: is dunking the warriors in the from the underworld into 667 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,640 Speaker 1: the cauldron. And one thing I can't tell from the 668 00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:59,400 Speaker 1: image is the warrior scared to be dunked, or is 669 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,600 Speaker 1: the warrior excited like he's going in head first. You 670 00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:05,120 Speaker 1: can see he's got one arm sort of raised up. 671 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,719 Speaker 1: But that it could be like oh no, oh no, 672 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:10,120 Speaker 1: please don't dunk, or it could be like a wee 673 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,319 Speaker 1: arms up thing. It's hard to tell. Well, I think 674 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:16,600 Speaker 1: if if you're being manhandled by a god like this 675 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 1: and you're about to be dunked into a cauldron or 676 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:21,400 Speaker 1: a vat of some sort, like you should be afraid. 677 00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:23,880 Speaker 1: I think a certain amount of fear is is ideal. 678 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:27,440 Speaker 1: But then again, if the interpretation is right, this warrior 679 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:31,160 Speaker 1: is about to maybe be transformed into a higher state 680 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:35,080 Speaker 1: of existence. Yeah maybe so maybe so. Now one thing 681 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:38,799 Speaker 1: the sort of capping off our serious discussion here, and 682 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,200 Speaker 1: to be clear, we will be back in another episode 683 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,680 Speaker 1: on Cauldron's We have a number of of wonderful cauldron 684 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,120 Speaker 1: mythologies to discuss. Uh. We'll also get into at least 685 00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:51,839 Speaker 1: a little bit of Dante's Inferno. But uh, this also 686 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,600 Speaker 1: brings me back to a recent film we looked at 687 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:58,040 Speaker 1: on Weird How Cinema, Jason takes Manhattan. There is a 688 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 1: scene where Jason, who again can be at least loosely 689 00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:08,800 Speaker 1: compared to various divine and semi divine beings and in history. Um, 690 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:12,640 Speaker 1: he dunked somebody in this vat of like nasty New 691 00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,840 Speaker 1: York water. Uh, possible time. I guess it's not actually 692 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:19,279 Speaker 1: toxic sludge, but it looks gross. Kill somebody by drowning them, 693 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,040 Speaker 1: holding them by the feet, and dunking them. I think 694 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:23,960 Speaker 1: it's supposed to be toxic waste. And I think that 695 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,800 Speaker 1: is part of the mythology of Jason Takes Manhattan, is 696 00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,440 Speaker 1: that New York is full of open steel drums of 697 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:34,560 Speaker 1: toxic waste. But the street later that is clearly labeled 698 00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:38,560 Speaker 1: toxic waste. That confuses the matter. I think it's one 699 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:41,160 Speaker 1: of the flavors of the soda fountain machines. And and 700 00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:44,080 Speaker 1: you know, you you make you a mix, so you 701 00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:46,399 Speaker 1: get some new grape, and then you get some some 702 00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:49,480 Speaker 1: diet fanta, and then you get some some toxic waste. 703 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:54,719 Speaker 1: Fair fair enough. Um. Now, to be clear, the individual 704 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:58,200 Speaker 1: in this movie does not re emerge from the cauldron changed. 705 00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:02,000 Speaker 1: He's just killed in the bad the bend and the 706 00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:04,240 Speaker 1: vat or the bucket or whatever it was, the barrel. 707 00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:09,080 Speaker 1: But well, now hold on a second, I would say 708 00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:13,680 Speaker 1: that the fact that they are in a Friday movie 709 00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,120 Speaker 1: and that we will later see another Friday movie with 710 00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:20,840 Speaker 1: an almost exactly the same stock character may in fact 711 00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:24,400 Speaker 1: me and that these characters are reincarnated throughout each film 712 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,760 Speaker 1: and sort of attained new forms. You know, you've always 713 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,040 Speaker 1: got your your jock hunk, you've always got your nerd, 714 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:35,879 Speaker 1: you've always got your you know, strict older gentleman um. 715 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:38,319 Speaker 1: You know that they show up again and again. So 716 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:40,880 Speaker 1: this may in fact be a well I guess it 717 00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:44,480 Speaker 1: wouldn't be a transformation. Well, I guess you could argue 718 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:45,960 Speaker 1: that I don't know. So first of all, I do 719 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,440 Speaker 1: have to ask is this a widely discussed theory or 720 00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:52,480 Speaker 1: is I'm just riffing here? No, I say, Okay, maybe 721 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,920 Speaker 1: maybe a bad character gets dunked and then in the 722 00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:59,279 Speaker 1: next movie they're reincarnated as a final girl. Okay, yeah, 723 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,520 Speaker 1: so they're moving up. There is a transformation. Yeah, and 724 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:05,680 Speaker 1: so you get it's that hierarchy of kill order where 725 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:12,759 Speaker 1: you're going to you either fall down or you ascend upwards. Possibly. Okay, alright, interesting, interesting, 726 00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:15,400 Speaker 1: you know it's it's also interesting if you take this 727 00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:19,480 Speaker 1: just context of of immersion and rebirth, which we'll get 728 00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:22,680 Speaker 1: into some more in our next episode. Like you see 729 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:24,719 Speaker 1: this in all sorts of films, Like I was just 730 00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:26,839 Speaker 1: thinking of the Star Wars films, like what happens when 731 00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:29,800 Speaker 1: a character is is terribly injured they go into the 732 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:32,600 Speaker 1: box to tank? Um, And what is the box to 733 00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:36,560 Speaker 1: tank but a kind of magical space cauldron that heals 734 00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,640 Speaker 1: your wounds and allows you to re emerge. I thought 735 00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,560 Speaker 1: that scene was weird. Loops Lukes all cut up and 736 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:45,239 Speaker 1: he's in that like weird white diaper. Yeah, that I 737 00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:50,000 Speaker 1: remember as a kid thinking that was funny, and it 738 00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:53,719 Speaker 1: really and it is still funny. But yeah, I mean, 739 00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:55,799 Speaker 1: obviously there's a lot of a lot of this comes 740 00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:59,360 Speaker 1: from also baptismal imagery, and we'll we'll discuss that a 741 00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:01,239 Speaker 1: little bit in a few sure. I'm also and this 742 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,840 Speaker 1: is also reminded of a scene, particularly in the film 743 00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:08,839 Speaker 1: adaptation adaptation of Umberto Echoes The Name of the Rose, 744 00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:11,440 Speaker 1: in which I believe the second murder has been committed 745 00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:14,000 Speaker 1: and the body is found immersed in a vat of 746 00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:16,840 Speaker 1: pigs blood. That the blood that is going to be 747 00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:20,080 Speaker 1: processed into sausage. Uh. And of course that's a that's 748 00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:23,640 Speaker 1: a wonderfully terrifying image. I remember, especially from the movie 749 00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:25,880 Speaker 1: trailer that I watched as a child, because here's this 750 00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:30,200 Speaker 1: cauldron of blood and two legs sticking out of it. Uh. 751 00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,759 Speaker 1: And and even that, there's so much, so much going 752 00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,440 Speaker 1: on there, because here's the cauldron as a vessel of 753 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:38,920 Speaker 1: of of life and death, of food and transformation, but 754 00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:42,680 Speaker 1: also just here an instrument of murder for some deranged 755 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:46,359 Speaker 1: individual who's causing chaos at the abbey. Okay, I think 756 00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:49,359 Speaker 1: we must cease cauldron ing for today. But there will 757 00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,440 Speaker 1: be one more cauldron, yes, and like I said, it 758 00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,080 Speaker 1: should be a fun one. We'll get into some more mythologies, 759 00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:57,719 Speaker 1: we'll discuss a little bit of Dante and who knows 760 00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:01,600 Speaker 1: what else? All right in the mean time, again, if 761 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:03,279 Speaker 1: you didn't listen to those first two episodes on the 762 00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:05,040 Speaker 1: cauld and go back and listen to those, a lot 763 00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:08,000 Speaker 1: of good, good content there. Uh, join us for the 764 00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:11,080 Speaker 1: next episode. Core episodes of Stuff to Blow Your Mind 765 00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:13,279 Speaker 1: published on Tuesdays and Thursdays, and the Stuff to Blow 766 00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:17,560 Speaker 1: your Mind podcast feed on Monday's. We usually do listener mail. 767 00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:20,480 Speaker 1: On Wednesdays, we usually do a monster fact or artifact episode. 768 00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:23,319 Speaker 1: That's a short form episode. Amount of fridays. We set 769 00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:25,560 Speaker 1: aside most serious concerns and we just talk about a 770 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,840 Speaker 1: strange film. Huge thanks, as always to our excellent audio 771 00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:31,799 Speaker 1: producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to get 772 00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:34,279 Speaker 1: in touch with us with feedback on this episode or 773 00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:37,200 Speaker 1: any other, to suggest topic for the future, or just 774 00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:40,040 Speaker 1: to say hello, you can email us at contact at 775 00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:50,160 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow your Mind dot com Stuff to Blow 776 00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:52,719 Speaker 1: your Mind. It's production of I Heart Radio. For more 777 00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:55,359 Speaker 1: podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 778 00:43:55,520 --> 00:44:09,680 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to your favorite shows. 779 00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:10,680 Speaker 1: The masts four Foo