1 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: Bodybags with Joseph Scott Morgan. I don't know that there's 2 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: any kind of love that really measures up to a 3 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: mama's love for her babies, particularly when you don't feel good. 4 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: For me, I suffered horribly with your aches when I 5 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:42,200 Speaker 1: was a child, and the only soothing to be had 6 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:45,559 Speaker 1: was in the arms of my mother, rocking me in 7 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: her rocking chair and singing an old song called Down 8 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: in the Valley. Kids need that, you need it when 9 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 1: you don't feel good. There's just something about its best 10 00:00:56,640 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: medicine on earth. But today I want to talk about 11 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: a little boy, a little boy that needed soothing, a 12 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:08,919 Speaker 1: little boy that needed help, a little boy that needed healing. 13 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:18,559 Speaker 1: Today I'm going to talk about the murder of Cairo Jordan. 14 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is Body Backs. My 15 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: friend Jackie Howard, executive producer of Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, 16 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 1: is here with me. Jackie, MIT, my heart's broken. My 17 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: heart is absolutely broken over the case we're going to 18 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: talk about today, because I think many of us can 19 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: probably identify with this little boy in the sense that 20 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: he was suffering. He was certainly suffering, probably far more 21 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: than many of us can even be again to fathom. 22 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: But I think that like all of us, we want 23 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: to be soothed. We want to be treated like we're special, 24 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: We want to be assured that everything's going to be okay. 25 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: In Cairo's case, I don't think that that was there 26 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: for him. The death of this little boy is really upsetting, 27 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: especially when you find out, with the release of the 28 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:25,959 Speaker 1: autopsy and the cause of his death, that it could 29 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 1: have been prevented. The body of this little boy was 30 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: found inside a travel suitcase. It looks like about the 31 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 1: size of a small carry on. It is a hard 32 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: sided case and on the front of this suitcase is 33 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: the logo of the iconic sign of Welcome to Las Vegas. 34 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: And this little boy's body was folded and stuffed inside 35 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 1: this suitcase. It was dumped in the woods, and his 36 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: body was found by a mushroom hunter. We did not 37 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: know who this little boy was. We did not know 38 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: if he had been kidnapped. We did not know if 39 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 1: his body was just discarded by his parents. We didn't 40 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:16,919 Speaker 1: know anything about this little boy other than the fact 41 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 1: that he's did And we'll get into his death and 42 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 1: the cause of his death in a second. But I 43 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:25,360 Speaker 1: want to talk about Joe, how he was found folded 44 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 1: up inside of a carry on size suitcase. How do 45 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: you do that? I mean, if the little boy died, 46 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: and we know that rigor sets in in certain stages, 47 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: so what it had to have been done like immediately 48 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: when he died for it to be possible. And even then, 49 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: children's joints are more flexible than adults, but I mean, 50 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: that's really small to be basically folded in. Two bodies 51 00:03:55,040 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: are much more malleable when they are recently deceased, and 52 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: that that's in my opinion at least, that's what happened 53 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: because there's that level of flexibility. I'm glad you brought 54 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 1: up this, the idea of RIGER, and just let me 55 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: kind of break this down so that folks kind of 56 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: understand how RIGER works. First off, it's one of the 57 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: things that we use to determine post mortal interval because 58 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 1: there's measure time with it. You know that we can 59 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 1: kind of frame how long someone has been down relative 60 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:32,840 Speaker 1: to what's referred to as their level of rigidity. That 61 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:35,479 Speaker 1: is the tension that has set in. And I think 62 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:39,799 Speaker 1: many people will say, well, what causes this? What actually 63 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:44,159 Speaker 1: causes RIGER to begin to present. Well, it's kind of 64 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 1: an interesting dynamic that happens after death. When we're alive, 65 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:53,480 Speaker 1: you have this cellular respiration that goes on your body 66 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 1: and it's it's constantly pumping, it's constantly working, and it's 67 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: throwing off these little balls of energy called ATP. And 68 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 1: in death that cellular respiration ceases and you begin to 69 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: produce a DP and one of the byproducts of that 70 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: is lactic acid. And I tell my students listen, if 71 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 1: you want to know what ryckermortis is, like the closest 72 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 1: you'll ever experience it in life is if you have 73 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 1: not worked out in some time, you go and get 74 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 1: like a real hearty workout. In say, you begin to 75 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:33,359 Speaker 1: do some weightlifting, maybe some stretching that you're not used to. 76 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:35,359 Speaker 1: And the next morning when you wake up, how do 77 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: you feel well? You know, throughout the classroom they always 78 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 1: say stiff. You know, well, the reason you feel stiff 79 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 1: is that there is a build up of a lactic acid. 80 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:49,280 Speaker 1: When you can take all kinds of medication to you know, 81 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: loosen up an all that sort of thing, make you 82 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: feel better, but sooner or later, because you're still alive 83 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:01,160 Speaker 1: and you have cellular respiration going on, that lactic acid 84 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: that you have built up in your body will be metabolized. 85 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:07,359 Speaker 1: It'll go away, all right. In the dead, that's not 86 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:11,280 Speaker 1: the case, Okay. This lactic acid builds up in the 87 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: joints and it creates this rigidity or riger mortis. If 88 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: you're looking to try to understand, in you know, Cairo's case, 89 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: where he was and what was going on at that 90 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:29,479 Speaker 1: particular time, his body would have still have to have 91 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 1: been what's referred to as flaccid. That means movable, okay, loose, 92 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: because once riger begins to set in, it's very stiff. 93 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: It's very difficult to kind of manipulate the body, particularly 94 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: if you're not used to dealing with dead bodies. And 95 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: it's at that point in time he could have been 96 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: folded up. Now we don't really know, you know, when 97 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 1: we say folded, we don't really know what that means. 98 00:06:56,320 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: We don't know if he was, say at his center axis, 99 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: which if we just kind of pretend that that's the waist, 100 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: if he's folded over like a pair of pants that 101 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: you're going to put into a suitcase. We don't know 102 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: if that's the case, or if he was kind of 103 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: bawled up and placed into a fetal position. And again 104 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: that would be easy, easy to accomplish, more so than say, 105 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: folding the upper torso between the legs. It would be 106 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: much more manageable to kind of baul him into a 107 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: fetal position and place him into the suitcase and zip 108 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: it up. And if you know, if it were me, 109 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: and you know you were asking me, just without seeing 110 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 1: any of the any of the crime singe photos, I'd 111 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 1: have to say that that was probably the case. So 112 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: this little boy was folded and put into the suitcase 113 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 1: and left outside. What state would the body have been 114 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: enclosed in this when he was found? Well, okay, first off, 115 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: we have to say from the beginning that this rigid 116 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: suitcase is going to provide some level of protection. Okay, 117 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 1: I think that's that's kind of understood. We've got him 118 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 1: in this encasement. Now, you know, most people understand what 119 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: a suitcase feels like. It's called rigid for a reason. 120 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 1: It's not like a soft sided thing that you can 121 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: kind of easily manipulate. We know what the parameters are, 122 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: and so he's encased within this structure. Now, what does 123 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 1: that mean if you're outdoors? Well, it means that it's 124 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: going to be much more difficult for large let's say, scavengers, birds, mammals, 125 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:36,680 Speaker 1: small mammals to get access to the body, so you 126 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 1: can kind of count them out. However, it's not going 127 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:43,439 Speaker 1: to preclude insects because insects will find a way. They 128 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 1: will find a way to get in to get to 129 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 1: that thing that is driving their senses nuts. They're trying 130 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 1: to find decomposing tissue, and they will go to great 131 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: links to make their way in there. So it would 132 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 1: not be beyond reason to think that there may have 133 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: been larval or maggot development in this environment. It all 134 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 1: depends on how sealed this thing truly was. There are 135 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: smaller species that can get in there and kind of 136 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 1: have an impact as well, and that's kind of what 137 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 1: happens with what we call putrefaction and puture faction if 138 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:20,880 Speaker 1: you think of it more in the terms of when 139 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: it comes to decomposition is an external force, and then 140 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: you have what's called asis is almost like self digestion. 141 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 1: So you've got to sell the breakdown that's taking place 142 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: within the body, and the body kind of begins to 143 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 1: consume itself. But you've got this odd thing that you 144 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: have to kind of factor in to your assessment, and 145 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:45,959 Speaker 1: that's that the body is kind of contained and protected 146 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:49,560 Speaker 1: more so than other bodies. His body would have gone 147 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 1: through significant decompositional changes just simply based on Autois, so 148 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 1: the tissue would be very, very difficult to kind of 149 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:04,599 Speaker 1: initially assessed, particularly at the scene. I feel there was 150 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 1: a statement that was made by this poor gentleman that 151 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 1: had the unfortunate circumstance of finding this poor little baby 152 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 1: in this suitcase, and he actually made the statement. He 153 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:19,679 Speaker 1: said he was able to look into his face and 154 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 1: he felt like and you could hear him, he was 155 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 1: holding back tears when he said it. He said, I 156 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: felt like this little boy was asking me to help him. 157 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 1: So let that sink in just for a second. But 158 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: what we can assess from that is that when this man, 159 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: who is probably not used to seeing the sort of thing, 160 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 1: open the case, he was able to stare into this 161 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: baby's face, he could appreciate the face. So that means 162 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 1: that that the body was not that far gone to 163 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: the point where the body was in some kind of 164 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 1: liquefied state, which does happen sometimes with decomposition. So his 165 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 1: features were probably still appreciable, and that's that's horrific to 166 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 1: think of. But that's that's kind of the first blush. 167 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:00,959 Speaker 1: And this is this gentleman, this must hunter that was 168 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: out there. He's actually the first person to put eyes 169 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: on in this discovery. So that I think that that's 170 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 1: probably pretty significant here and we can get into more 171 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 1: of the detail relative to trace evidence in this sort 172 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 1: of thing. You know, he comes across in this isolated 173 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 1: area out in the middle of nowhere, and this is 174 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 1: truly in the middle of nowhere, this odd suitcase to 175 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:24,679 Speaker 1: begin with. I mean, it's it's very garish. That kind 176 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:28,560 Speaker 1: of goes along with Vegas, right. Vegas is garish, you know, 177 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: it's bright, illuminated and here you are in rural South 178 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 1: Indiana and you're minding your old business, just out collecting mushrooms, 179 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 1: and you see this suitcase is sitting in the middle 180 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: of a place that it does not belong. And I 181 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 1: think that possibly if he had to do over again, 182 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 1: he wouldn't have wanted to have opened the thing up, 183 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 1: because this is an image that's going to live with 184 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: him for the rest of his natural one days. I 185 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:57,680 Speaker 1: am not being flipped here, Joe I truly am not, 186 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: and I am not meaning in the disrespect, but the 187 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 1: one thing that I have learned since I have begun 188 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:08,559 Speaker 1: my career in crime investigation, I will never open any 189 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: package that I find, and I truly am not being flipped. 190 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 1: I am as serious as a heart attack, as we 191 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 1: say it in the South. I will never open any 192 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: discarded package or suitcase that I find on the side 193 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 1: of the road or anywhere for that matter, because the 194 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 1: idea of what I'm going to find inside. I know 195 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 1: that I could not cope with what this poor gentleman 196 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 1: did when he opened that suitcase and found a body. 197 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 1: It is just heart heart wrenching. He's going to be 198 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: ravaged by this emotionally. This is not something that you 199 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 1: just you know that you can just kind of blow 200 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 1: off and forget. It bores down into your soul. This 201 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:48,199 Speaker 1: kind of thing particularly, it would be hard enough even 202 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 1: for me. You know, there have been cases where I've 203 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: gone out where mass shootings for instance, or like where 204 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: family is completely wiped out in a house. I've actually 205 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 1: found a body before. And you say, well, Morgan, you 206 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 1: you know your death investigator, of course you found bodies. No, 207 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 1: I don't, No, I don't I show up its scenes 208 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 1: after people have found bodies. And I still remember a 209 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: case in particular where I had a kid that had 210 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: fled from his father as his father's wiping out the family, 211 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 1: and he hid in a closet and the father had 212 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: gotten to him and shot him in the closet and 213 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 1: closed the door, and the kid was unaccounted for. And 214 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:31,320 Speaker 1: I'm the person that found him. I'll never forget that 215 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 1: as long as I live. And I was in the 216 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 1: midst of all these other bodies when that happened, but 217 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:39,439 Speaker 1: that kid's body huddled in that closet out of fear. 218 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: It will stay with me in my mind's eye for 219 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 1: the rest of my life. Can you imagine you're in 220 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: this kind of semi forested area, you know, where people 221 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: hunt mushrooms. It's going to be dark essentially, because that's 222 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: where mushrooms grow, you know, tree covered all that sort 223 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 1: of stuff. And you walk up on this thing and 224 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 1: it's kind of calling out to you. You can't help, 225 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 1: but you got to walk over and figure out what 226 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: it is. Maybe he jostled it a little bit and said, wow, 227 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:05,199 Speaker 1: this is heavy. You know what's in here? And he 228 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 1: opens it up and you know, he comes face to 229 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 1: face with this a little boy. Every time. I don't 230 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 1: mean sometime, I mean every time I've ever worked a 231 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 1: case where an individual has found a body, they have 232 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: consistently said when you ask them to kind of retell 233 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 1: their story, without fail, they will say, I couldn't believe 234 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 1: it was happening. I can't believe this is what's going on. 235 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: And I can only imagine for this man, it was 236 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 1: out just you know, collecting mushrooms. That's what happened with him. 237 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: I think that for a moment he was stunned that 238 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 1: what he was actually viewing there before him. But at 239 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 1: some point in time you got to shake it off. 240 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: You gotta get your phone out, and you got to 241 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 1: call nine one one. And I think that probably when 242 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: the police showed up, they were equally stunned. How do 243 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 1: they begin to process a scene like this, given that 244 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: the little boy was enclosed in the suitcase. Are you 245 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: worried as much about the outside, like literally the area 246 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: where the case was found, or you just concentrated on 247 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 1: the suitcase itself since he was enclosed. This is so bizarre. 248 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 1: You know that good Lord just didn't set this case 249 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: down there in the middle of the wilderness. As an investigator, 250 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 1: I would be very interested in the periphery. What points 251 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 1: of access do you have to location? Is there a 252 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: common path that people walk down when they're kind of 253 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 1: you know, traps in through the woods out here, and 254 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 1: we know that this gentleman's looking for mushrooms? How many 255 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: other people have been out there? And we're in the 256 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 1: middle of deer season right now, you know, and they're 257 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 1: I've got friends that go to Indiana to hunt deer 258 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: because it is such a great place to hunt, that 259 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 1: have leases on property and all that sort of thing. 260 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 1: Is this scenaria that hunters would go through? And then 261 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 1: you've got game paths, but there's paths that game actually take, 262 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 1: so you have to kind of separate those things out. 263 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: When you begin to think about this environment, you know 264 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: who has access to it, what major roads are around it. 265 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: Is it a place that a perpetrator might use because 266 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 1: they feel as though it's out of sight, that it's 267 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 1: a place that, you know, you can take an item 268 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 1: so that no one would see it. And if that's 269 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 1: the case, why would you leave it in plain sight 270 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: once you got to this location. Was it something that 271 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 1: was done in a hurry or was it something that 272 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: was specifically planned. I was looking at the photographs of 273 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:19,479 Speaker 1: this case and one of the things that really really 274 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,679 Speaker 1: caught my attention. I mean, from Jump Street, there's this. 275 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:25,440 Speaker 1: I urge anybody to go out there and take a look. There. 276 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 1: There's a photograph that obviously the police had had snapped 277 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 1: because it's got a tape measure adjacent to it. And 278 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: that's that's what we call, you know, placing a scale 279 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 1: in the photograph so that you can get an idea 280 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: of how tall the dimensions of this thing. And when 281 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:42,159 Speaker 1: I was looking at the looking at the suitcase, I 282 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 1: noticed something about it. First off, the handle was dirty. 283 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:47,959 Speaker 1: It's got one of those retractable handles on it, and 284 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 1: it was dirty. It looked like it had like dry 285 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:54,119 Speaker 1: dirt or mud that was on the handle. And secondly, 286 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:57,400 Speaker 1: here's the thing. This thing's got wheels on it. Guess what, 287 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: there was mud on the wheels, I think. And this 288 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:04,640 Speaker 1: is kind of chilling with this precious baby's body in there, 289 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:10,640 Speaker 1: like they're walking through the concourse at an airport. They're 290 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: walking through the woods dragging this suitcase containing this little 291 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 1: boy's body within it, like they're going to their gate 292 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:23,160 Speaker 1: to catch a plane. There's mud on these wheels. They 293 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 1: drug it out there, set it out, and I'm assuming 294 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 1: they set it out, would handle extended because that's a 295 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 1: picture that the police had of it. And again that's 296 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 1: another indication I think of what a callous, callous, heartless 297 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:45,639 Speaker 1: actus is. When they started to process the suitcase, you 298 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:50,199 Speaker 1: just mentioned the wheels. Given what you just said, what 299 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 1: kind of tests I mean, would it have been very 300 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 1: in depth on the dirt or residue on the wheels 301 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 1: to see where the suitcase had been. It all depends 302 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 1: on how much how much value the investigative agency places 303 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 1: in certain types of trace evidence. Some agencies will say, well, yeah, 304 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 1: we want to go the extra step and have, say, 305 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: for instance, a soil assessment conducted. And what I mean 306 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 1: by that is in this particular area of Indiana, you're 307 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 1: north obviously of the Ohio River, and it's not too 308 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 1: far away as crow flies. I guess that from a 309 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: geographic and a geological perspective, that layer of top soil 310 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:43,479 Speaker 1: there is going to be distinct to that area for 311 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:46,360 Speaker 1: a lot of reasons. But when you begin to think 312 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: about the local flora, that is, the plants that grow 313 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,400 Speaker 1: in the area. When you begin to think about how 314 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:56,119 Speaker 1: that area was formed thousands and thousands and thousands of 315 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: years ago, and not just thousands of years ago, but 316 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 1: even recently relative to sediment in those sorts of things, 317 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,440 Speaker 1: that soil is going to be unique to that location. 318 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,400 Speaker 1: If you're coming out of let's say Appalachia, Let's say 319 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: that he originated in Appalachia in the mountains in a location, 320 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:18,440 Speaker 1: that soil in that range is going to be different 321 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 1: than say, soil that you might find in what might 322 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 1: be considered bottom land. You know, when you're getting closer 323 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 1: and closer to a river, it's going to have a 324 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:32,880 Speaker 1: very distinct composition to it. And so from a forensic standpoint, 325 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: if we can do soil sampling and take a sample 326 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:42,199 Speaker 1: from that piece of luggage, that's something that might be significant. 327 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,400 Speaker 1: But are there other trace elements that are on there? 328 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,120 Speaker 1: These tests on soil in particular, these are what are 329 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 1: referred to as a morphologic assessment, and what that means 330 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: is that you have to examine it primarily microscopically, because 331 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:02,359 Speaker 1: each sample will have a very specific appearance depended upon 332 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: the type of soil it is. Every region that you 333 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: go to is unique to itself, and so you begin 334 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 1: to narrow things down. For my money, this is going 335 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 1: to play a big part in this because, first off, 336 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:20,440 Speaker 1: we've got this baby that's encased in the suitcase. Well, 337 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: suitcase implies travel, doesn't it. So first off, I think 338 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: in the investigator's mind, you're thinking, well, is his point 339 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 1: of origin here in South Indiana? Well, whoever brought him 340 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,640 Speaker 1: here had luggage? Why did they have luggage, and why 341 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,200 Speaker 1: did they place a little boy in it? Well, there's 342 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: a high probability they may have traveled from somewhere else, 343 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 1: so that cannot be off of the table. I have 344 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:47,200 Speaker 1: to begin to think as an investigator that I've got 345 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 1: to broaden my investigative spectrum here and considered that this 346 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:55,199 Speaker 1: little boy may have originated from somewhere other than the 347 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: local population. The investigation then turns to the inside of 348 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:05,160 Speaker 1: the suitcase. What are the investigators looking for their Well, 349 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 1: specific points of identity, and that's what you're looking for 350 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 1: to begin with. This is a labor intensive undertaking to 351 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 1: take this precious little angel and, as it has been 352 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: stated in the news, fold him, fold him up, And 353 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 1: we don't really know what that means. Maybe that originated 354 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 1: with a police department. It's an interesting descriptor though. If 355 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,399 Speaker 1: they're saying he's folded, that means that goes to points 356 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 1: of contact on his body and the entire environment, the 357 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,679 Speaker 1: interior environment of this case. So that means that whoever 358 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:42,920 Speaker 1: did this, this is labor intensive. So they're gonna be 359 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 1: putting their hands over all of the surfaces that are 360 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 1: found therein when you're handling a piece of evidence like this, 361 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 1: you need to treat it as gingerly as you would 362 00:22:56,040 --> 00:23:00,160 Speaker 1: if you were trying to diffuse a bomb. Because it's 363 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,200 Speaker 1: the slightest little movement, the slightest thing that you do. 364 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 1: That it's not clearly considered and thought out, you can 365 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 1: blow the whole case because you're going to disrupt something. 366 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: Just think about fingerprints, those things that we leave behind 367 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: with fingerprints, they're very fragile, I mean terribly fragile. All 368 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: it takes is for somebody not to be paying attention, 369 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: and you can eradicate a fingerprint by simply dragging your 370 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:35,640 Speaker 1: hand across a surface, because they're there fingerprints present as 371 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: a result of oil on the fingertips. You know that 372 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 1: that cover our friction ridges that leave this imprint behind. 373 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: So and we know what it's like. You know, even 374 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 1: on a surface, you know, in our kitchen or something 375 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 1: that's an oily, you know, you might have a dot 376 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 1: of oil that's there and you just barely touch it. 377 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 1: Will you change the configuration of just that spilled oil 378 00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,439 Speaker 1: just by introducing your finger into that and moving about 379 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 1: or swiping it with your hand or that sort of thing. 380 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:08,200 Speaker 1: Same principle with with fingerprints. You have to be very careful. 381 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 1: So from from the beginning, when they're you know, first 382 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 1: getting into the suitcase and they begin to open it up, 383 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,360 Speaker 1: that has to be in the forefront of their minds, 384 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:23,159 Speaker 1: you know, as they're you know, they're beginning to you know, 385 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 1: try to consider how they're going to handle this. My 386 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 1: understanding is that there was plastic involved with this little 387 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 1: boy's body, that someone had taken the time to wrap 388 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:39,200 Speaker 1: him in plastic. Well, plastic is what's referred to as 389 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 1: kind of a smooth, non port surface. Okay, so there's 390 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 1: a high probability that you can raise a print off 391 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:55,400 Speaker 1: of that. I don't know if they removed this little 392 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,679 Speaker 1: boy's body from the case at the scene, because that 393 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:00,959 Speaker 1: would be your first inclination, and it's just it's the 394 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,920 Speaker 1: humanity within us that wants to do that to kind 395 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: of secure him. Or did they leave him in there? 396 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 1: We know the case was opened because the mushroom hunter 397 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,680 Speaker 1: actually said that he looked into the little boy's face 398 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:16,679 Speaker 1: and he felt so the little boy was saying, you know, 399 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:20,479 Speaker 1: help me. That was the quote that he gave. So 400 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 1: did they take it a step further? Did they actually 401 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 1: remove him physically from the case at that point in 402 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:27,160 Speaker 1: time when the police were as seen, or did they 403 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: leave him encased in there? Now, the best thing that 404 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 1: could happen, as horrific as it sounds, is for him 405 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,680 Speaker 1: to remain in place, the body to remain in place 406 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: in the encasement, because that goes to the concept of 407 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 1: the pristine nature of the evidence. If you don't remove him, 408 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 1: then you have a higher probability of saving any of 409 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 1: this fragile evidence it's in there. It's not just fingerprints, 410 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 1: it's fiber evidence too. It's also DNA because you can have, 411 00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 1: for instance, if somebody did not use gloves in this environment, 412 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 1: even if they did to a certain degree but greater 413 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,200 Speaker 1: or so, if they did not use gloves, you've got 414 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:09,920 Speaker 1: an opportunity to perhaps recover touch DNA which comes about 415 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,880 Speaker 1: as a result of slopping dead skin cells, so those 416 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:17,399 Speaker 1: could be deposited everywhere. Again very fragile, almost like talcum powder, 417 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 1: probably even more so than talcum powder. And then hair evidence. 418 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 1: Say if the individual that's moving this little boy around 419 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 1: Joscelyn and folding him up as they say they've been saying, 420 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,679 Speaker 1: what if they're shedding hair into this environment, and that 421 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 1: hair is specifically identifiable back to an individual. And again 422 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,719 Speaker 1: the hair can contain DNA as well, So there's a 423 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 1: lot to considering. You do this in this kind of 424 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 1: austere environment at crom Sing outdoors where guy's hunting from mushrooms, 425 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: you can lose all kinds of stuff out there. So 426 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 1: it's important that you get this back, this suitcase, into 427 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 1: the hands of the people at the laboratory so they 428 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,680 Speaker 1: can begin to do their assessment collection of all trace evidence. 429 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 1: If they're going to have to, say, for instance, look fingerprints, 430 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 1: they have to decide how they're going to do this. 431 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: Are they going to dust the case? Are they going 432 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:09,640 Speaker 1: to use what's called idine fuming, which is generally done 433 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:13,239 Speaker 1: on things rougher surfaces like paper and wood. Are they 434 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: going to do superglue. You know, we've talked about superglue before. 435 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 1: You know, where you you warm superglue up, as it 436 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:24,120 Speaker 1: fumes up, it lands on you know, these areas that 437 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 1: these fatty lipids that are contained in the in the 438 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 1: fingerprints that are left behind, and it freezes it forever 439 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: and ever. Amen. So you have you have it there 440 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,640 Speaker 1: where it can be assessed. So you have to make 441 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,640 Speaker 1: all of these determinations. Oh and by the way, we've 442 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: got to examine this little boy's body too, so you 443 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 1: can see how involved this is. And you don't want 444 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 1: to do all of this at the scene outdoors. You 445 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:48,639 Speaker 1: want to try to do it back in a protected 446 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:52,679 Speaker 1: space at the coroner's office, the emmy's office, and certainly 447 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 1: as the crime lab as well. I was really intently 448 00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: listening to you talking about the fingerprints inside the suit case, 449 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: because that is indeed how this little boy was identified. 450 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:08,919 Speaker 1: His mother's fingerprints were found on the trash bag inside 451 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: the suitcase. But I was wondering, Joe, what happens if 452 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:19,880 Speaker 1: the trash bag when they touched it, is messed up, 453 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:24,439 Speaker 1: if it's crumbled, if it's crushed, and that's how they 454 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:28,680 Speaker 1: touched it, does that impact the findings that you get 455 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,679 Speaker 1: trying to pull a fingerprint, it can smudge it desperately. 456 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:37,160 Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought that up, Jackie, because if you've, okay, 457 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 1: the initial position that you find any item like this 458 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 1: at a crime scene, that is more than likely the 459 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 1: way the perpetrator left it. Okay, we have to think 460 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 1: about that. And you know, for crime scene investigators and 461 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 1: forensic technicians, you have to essentially back your way out 462 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,760 Speaker 1: of the evidence, if you will, to try to unravel it, 463 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,680 Speaker 1: to understand it and go through what you think are 464 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 1: the possibilities of how the perpetrator initiated all this and 465 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 1: left a scene. So you have to kind of walk 466 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 1: your way back through it very carefully, to take everything 467 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 1: into consideration relative to latent prince meaning prints that are unseen. Okay, 468 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 1: and that's important for us to remember where was it 469 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:31,960 Speaker 1: that she last made contact with the bag, where did 470 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 1: she exactly place her hands, and not just the interior back, 471 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 1: but also exterior. Remember the exterior has been exposed to 472 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 1: the elements, but there still might be a chance under 473 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 1: certain circumstances with protected areas that brings us also remember 474 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 1: think back to what I was saying just a second ago, 475 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 1: and this thought just occurred to me. If you've gotten 476 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 1: mud that's on the exterior of the case. What if 477 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 1: maybe it was raining, okay, or the surface was wet, 478 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 1: and this individual slipped as they were moving this suitcase 479 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:12,959 Speaker 1: through this muddy environment, this dirty environment. What if just 480 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 1: for a second, they grabbed hold of the case after 481 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 1: they had fallen, and they've got mud on their hands, 482 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 1: and they placed their hands on the exterior of that case. Well, 483 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 1: that's not going to be a print that's left behind 484 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 1: by the fatty lipids that naturally occur on the surface 485 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 1: of our skin. Now that that's going to be a 486 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: print that's that's transferred onto their by virtue of the 487 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 1: dirt that's left behind. Can you pick up detail in that? Yeah, 488 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 1: And that kind of falls into a category that we 489 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 1: call plastic prints, which is it's different than a latent 490 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 1: print that you can latent print is unseen. So this 491 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 1: kind of immediately, you know, you look at something that's 492 00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 1: left behind where you have this medium that's like mud 493 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 1: or oil or dirt or any number of things grease, 494 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 1: and you can actually look at you can eyeball and say, 495 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, there's there's a handprint there, or that 496 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 1: looks like somebody put their finger there. Well, if that's 497 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 1: protected on the outside, if that's still there, you have 498 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 1: to be very careful with the exterior as well. Those 499 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 1: types of prints much more difficult to pick up detail on. 500 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 1: It's really hard to pick up specific detail because you 501 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 1: know the way print examiners actually identify prints as they're 502 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,960 Speaker 1: looking for what are called points. You have overall classifications, 503 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 1: you know, loops and whirls and all those sorts of things. 504 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 1: But within the general overall classification, you look for points 505 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 1: of identification in there, which are called minutia, these tiny 506 00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 1: little things. That's what makes prints unique. You know, you've 507 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 1: got ending ridges, you've got pores, you've got dots, you've 508 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 1: got deltas. There's a whole list of these things that 509 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,719 Speaker 1: are in there, and everybody's print is unique within that 510 00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 1: structure of the overall classification. You can't generally pick that 511 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:01,720 Speaker 1: up on say a muddy print, but you can say 512 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 1: somebody put their hand there. Karl Jordan was found abandoned 513 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 1: in a suitcase in a rural area. But the old 514 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 1: death investigator within me screams the question, I want to 515 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 1: know what brought him to this spot. It's horrible enough 516 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 1: that he's in the suitcase, but how did he get 517 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 1: in it? What was he deceased when he was placed 518 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:52,080 Speaker 1: in the case. Was he still alive? And if if 519 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 1: he if he didn't die as a result of being 520 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:59,480 Speaker 1: placed into the suitcase, what exactly brought about his death? 521 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:05,400 Speaker 1: Here is what medical examiner determined. The autopsy says that 522 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 1: there is no external injuries on the body. Cairo died 523 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 1: from an electro light imbalance. Now I've had you try 524 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 1: to explain this to me before, Joe, What is an 525 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 1: electro light and how can it kill you? Electro Lights 526 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 1: are minerals that are containing with our body that we 527 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 1: are heavily depended upon. You know, We've got calcium, you've 528 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 1: got phosphates. There's a number of them that you know, 529 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 1: I use this term a lot. They're the guardrails I 530 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 1: think for our metabolism, and they're either positively or negatively charged. 531 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:50,240 Speaker 1: They regulate all of the various activities in our body. Okay, 532 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 1: And you know you think about sodium for instance, that's 533 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 1: an electro light. And you hear a lot about sodium 534 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:58,160 Speaker 1: because it's in all of these sports drinks. You know, 535 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:02,320 Speaker 1: they you know, they're talking about electrolyte replacement for instance, 536 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 1: it is for sure something that needs to happen with 537 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,240 Speaker 1: sports strengths. You know, we can get into that line 538 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,040 Speaker 1: as much as you want. But they're loaded with sugar. 539 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,920 Speaker 1: So electrolytes are naturally occurring in foods. For instance, you 540 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 1: can eat a piece of avocado and replenish electro lights 541 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,880 Speaker 1: as opposed to buying something off the shell, for instance, 542 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:25,200 Speaker 1: that's loaded with sugar and it's infused with electrolytes. But 543 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:30,280 Speaker 1: they're naturally occurring in our food sources. So once these 544 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 1: electrolytes are kind of blood out of our system. Once 545 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:38,719 Speaker 1: they're diminished, every system within our body is impacted. I'm 546 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 1: talking about your nervous system, your heart, your lungs, your muscles. 547 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:47,720 Speaker 1: With an absence of electro lights can't repair themseelves for instance, 548 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,720 Speaker 1: Cellular respiration can't take place, so you know your cells 549 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 1: are screaming for oxygen. So when you have an electro 550 00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 1: light imbalance, you literally begin to starve your body and 551 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,240 Speaker 1: it can lead to things. You know, on the mile side, 552 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,320 Speaker 1: you have headaches, you can have dizziness, you have lethargy, 553 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 1: which is kind of a wasted appearance, you know, where 554 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 1: you're you're tired, you can't go on. But it can 555 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:15,960 Speaker 1: also lead to more serious things where you've got like 556 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:20,440 Speaker 1: severe abdominal problems that are presenting with things like cramping 557 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,680 Speaker 1: so badly that it's like somebody sticking a hot poker 558 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:28,760 Speaker 1: in your belly. You can have severe headaches, blinding headaches 559 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 1: to the point where it's impacting your ability to communicate. 560 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:36,520 Speaker 1: Your speech becomes slurred, vision becomes you know, kind of fuzzy. 561 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:41,399 Speaker 1: It can lead to a stroke, and in that same conversation, 562 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,439 Speaker 1: when you've got a sodium depletion, for instance, it can 563 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:46,880 Speaker 1: also lead to a heart attack as well. You know, 564 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:48,880 Speaker 1: like when I say heart attack, I hate using that 565 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,719 Speaker 1: term because it's not so broad. You can lead to 566 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 1: this kind of electrical malfunction within your heart that causes 567 00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:02,040 Speaker 1: your heart to cease beating. There's any number of things 568 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:04,920 Speaker 1: with in your body that can go wrong as a 569 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,400 Speaker 1: result of being starved of electro lights. Some people believe 570 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:10,359 Speaker 1: the best way to hydrate is to take on these 571 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 1: sports drinks and you know, boost their level of electro 572 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:18,280 Speaker 1: lights in your body. Because you're you're particularly with viral 573 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:22,080 Speaker 1: viral events, these electro lights are being bled off, and 574 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:26,640 Speaker 1: I think that in this baby's circumstance, I think that 575 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,080 Speaker 1: that's that's the conclusion that they arrived at. I heard 576 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 1: what you said, Joe, I truly did hear you. Doesn't 577 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:40,280 Speaker 1: mean I really understand it. Is it similar or could 578 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:44,440 Speaker 1: you compare it to basically being starved of water? Is 579 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:48,239 Speaker 1: it the same thing as being dehydrated? Dehydration will lead 580 00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,160 Speaker 1: to an electro light and balance again, you know, water, 581 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,680 Speaker 1: even in its basic form, it has electro lights in it. 582 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,680 Speaker 1: It's not infused or anything, but there are certain things 583 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 1: that you can find components of water that are are 584 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,640 Speaker 1: contained therein because it's when you say you're drinking water, 585 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:05,920 Speaker 1: you know, people think age two, oh, and you are. 586 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,480 Speaker 1: But you know there's other stuff, other minerals that will 587 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,359 Speaker 1: be found in water that you can you can have. 588 00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,719 Speaker 1: Now that's the purpose of having an infused drink, you know, 589 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:21,000 Speaker 1: because it's electrolytes are introduced into water, okay, into into 590 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:24,839 Speaker 1: this liquid. It'll be they'll be naturally occurring sometimes and 591 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:27,799 Speaker 1: so yeah, it leads to dehydration, particularly if you've got 592 00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 1: an ongoing illness. You know, I just think you know, 593 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,680 Speaker 1: many of us have had the flu. You know, most 594 00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:35,480 Speaker 1: of us have had the flu over the course of 595 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:39,880 Speaker 1: our life, and that's a viral infection, and so we 596 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:43,320 Speaker 1: know how badly we feel when you're sick. You don't 597 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,680 Speaker 1: really want to take anything on. What's the old adage 598 00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:48,640 Speaker 1: of what is it? Feed a fever, starve a cold. 599 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,000 Speaker 1: Oh no, feed of cold and starve a fever. Okay, well, 600 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:54,560 Speaker 1: you got it right then, So you think about these 601 00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:57,120 Speaker 1: things you're going to take on because your body's burning 602 00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:00,560 Speaker 1: up everything, you know, when you're ill, and you have 603 00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:02,640 Speaker 1: to continue to take on nourishment, and part of that 604 00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:08,600 Speaker 1: nourishment are these electrolytes, and dehydrationism is a bad problem 605 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:11,719 Speaker 1: when you're sick, particularly with a viral infection. There are 606 00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:13,680 Speaker 1: a lot of things that come about. You think about 607 00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:16,600 Speaker 1: stomach problems. You can either have it coming out of 608 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,480 Speaker 1: one end or the other, as people say, and every 609 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:24,440 Speaker 1: time that occurs, you become more and more diminished, particularly 610 00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:28,840 Speaker 1: from a nutritional standpoint. Electrolytes kind of regulate our pH 611 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:31,279 Speaker 1: and our body, our assets and our basis and how 612 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,319 Speaker 1: our pH level is in our body, and again that's 613 00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,239 Speaker 1: a big indicator of our level of health. It's one 614 00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:38,680 Speaker 1: of the things they will check for many times at 615 00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,680 Speaker 1: the doctor's office. You begin to think about certain other 616 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:45,040 Speaker 1: mineral levels that are in your body. If you're diminished, 617 00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:48,000 Speaker 1: particularly from level of certain vitamins you have in your body, 618 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:52,480 Speaker 1: if you're not taking things on relative to whatever kind 619 00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:56,080 Speaker 1: of diet that you're on, and when you're sick, it 620 00:38:56,239 --> 00:39:01,640 Speaker 1: just magnifies the circumstances. In this little boy's case, they 621 00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:09,840 Speaker 1: made a determination of viral gastro intorritis. Viral gastro intoritis 622 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:12,920 Speaker 1: did not come about as a result of an electro 623 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:17,440 Speaker 1: light imbalance. The electro light imbalance came about as a 624 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:22,280 Speaker 1: result of the viral gastro intorritis. Well what's the origin 625 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,080 Speaker 1: of that, Well, we can have gastro intorritis that will 626 00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:27,399 Speaker 1: you know, if you have certain medical conditions. I think 627 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,480 Speaker 1: the one that really comes to mind that these and 628 00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:33,959 Speaker 1: I have friends that have Chrome's disease, for instance, and 629 00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:38,120 Speaker 1: they have kind of an indwelling, ongoing gastro intortis And 630 00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:40,480 Speaker 1: when you hear itis like that, that means like an 631 00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:47,839 Speaker 1: inflammation of your gut essentially your bowel, and it's highly inflamed. 632 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,520 Speaker 1: You never feel well. It's you know, they have really 633 00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:56,120 Speaker 1: difficult time keeping anything down or keeping anything in their system. Well, 634 00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,440 Speaker 1: I gotta jump in here, Joe, because I can tell 635 00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:02,520 Speaker 1: you from personal experience. I had gastroentoritus when I was pregnant, 636 00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:05,120 Speaker 1: and I actually had it instead of morning sickness, and 637 00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:09,719 Speaker 1: I lost sixteen pounds in ten days. It's devastating, it 638 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:16,520 Speaker 1: really is. And that's what was going on with this baby. 639 00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:21,280 Speaker 1: I started this conversation talking about being soothed by your mama. 640 00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,399 Speaker 1: When you're little, you're sick to your stomach, you don't 641 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:28,839 Speaker 1: feel well, and the first inclination is to you want 642 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:30,920 Speaker 1: mamma to make it all better. You want her to 643 00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:34,800 Speaker 1: soothe you, to help you. Gastroenteritis you can have sometimes 644 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,279 Speaker 1: you can have a raging fever. Again, you're bleeding off 645 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:41,239 Speaker 1: electrolytes there. Certainly you can have horrible diarrhea with this, 646 00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:45,839 Speaker 1: and again you're losing these essential nutrients out of your 647 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:49,200 Speaker 1: body via that way as well. It can lead to vomiting. 648 00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:53,520 Speaker 1: And all of this is like a perfect storm, and 649 00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:59,080 Speaker 1: if it goes untreated, it can lead to a terminal event. 650 00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:02,200 Speaker 1: You're going to die, particularly if you're you're little. You know, 651 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:04,680 Speaker 1: you're a little word we're talking about five year old 652 00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:09,600 Speaker 1: that had this horrible condition that he wasn't receiving any 653 00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,600 Speaker 1: relief for. It's one thing if you have the condition 654 00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:17,160 Speaker 1: and you're being offered nutrients, you're being offered water that 655 00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:21,040 Speaker 1: you're going to be able to stave off dehydration, and 656 00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:23,640 Speaker 1: you know that you're going to get some type of 657 00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,439 Speaker 1: food down you chicken noodle, soup or whatever the case 658 00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,120 Speaker 1: might be, that you can ingest that your body is 659 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,080 Speaker 1: going to be able to fuel itself off of where 660 00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:33,279 Speaker 1: you're going to replenish what has been lost at that 661 00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,160 Speaker 1: point in time. That that didn't happen. You know, lots 662 00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:38,480 Speaker 1: of times will gastro under eyes it's so bad that 663 00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:40,719 Speaker 1: you have to be taking the hospital and they'll hang 664 00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:44,400 Speaker 1: an IV on you and they'll be able to, you know, 665 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,360 Speaker 1: push these things into your system that otherwise you cannot 666 00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:51,280 Speaker 1: ingest because you feel so bad. He didn't, he didn't 667 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:56,880 Speaker 1: have that done for him. He didn't. This little boy, 668 00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:04,600 Speaker 1: it appears at least, was just allowed to dwindle away 669 00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:10,680 Speaker 1: in excruciating pain, would no comfort offered whatsoever, I mean whatsoever, 670 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:17,640 Speaker 1: and he was just allowed to die. What you're telling me, Joe, 671 00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,719 Speaker 1: is that if this little boy had been given substances 672 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:26,239 Speaker 1: to replenish his electrolytes, that he would survive. Yeah, it 673 00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:30,560 Speaker 1: was that simple. It was literally that simple, and it 674 00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:35,279 Speaker 1: wouldn't have required very much at all, not a lot 675 00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:37,600 Speaker 1: of effort. Yet he would have been in discomfort. I mean, 676 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:40,279 Speaker 1: all of us are in discomfort when we have the flu. 677 00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:43,520 Speaker 1: And this is essentially what this is, is the stomach flu. 678 00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:47,040 Speaker 1: He died as a result of untreated stomach flu is 679 00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:48,480 Speaker 1: what it comes about. And you know, I said, it's 680 00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:51,799 Speaker 1: viral gastro enteritis, So you're talking about things like the 681 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,520 Speaker 1: Nora virus, all these viruses that kind of float around 682 00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:58,080 Speaker 1: out there and they can bring about this attack on 683 00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:01,759 Speaker 1: your gut. That's what he was suffering through. And it 684 00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:06,919 Speaker 1: went untreated, which is the absolute horror of this. It's 685 00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:10,880 Speaker 1: one thing when somebody succumbs to a natural disease, you know, 686 00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:14,880 Speaker 1: somebody dies of some horrible disease that we know is 687 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:18,520 Speaker 1: going to end in a fatal event that gastro entorietus. 688 00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:22,600 Speaker 1: Are you kidding me? That's the method that was used 689 00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:26,799 Speaker 1: to end his life. He was essentially this is what 690 00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:32,440 Speaker 1: we would call probably a passive homicide. You just allow 691 00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:36,919 Speaker 1: him to die as opposed to taking action that could 692 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:39,759 Speaker 1: have rendered him safe. All it would have taken is 693 00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:42,480 Speaker 1: to go to the grocery store and buy one of 694 00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:45,279 Speaker 1: these damned sports strengths and just give it to him, 695 00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:48,839 Speaker 1: administer it to him. But by the time he died, 696 00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:51,520 Speaker 1: he was so far gone. I don't know that. I 697 00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:53,480 Speaker 1: don't know that there's any kind of intervention that could 698 00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:56,200 Speaker 1: have taken as to the reason of why he was 699 00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:59,800 Speaker 1: not given treatment. We find from the mother's social me 700 00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:05,600 Speaker 1: she posted several times that she believed that her son 701 00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:10,040 Speaker 1: was trying to kill her and was possessed by a demon. 702 00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:14,120 Speaker 1: As police have issued a warrant for the mother's arrest 703 00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:18,120 Speaker 1: in this little boy Cairo's death and have arrested a 704 00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:22,279 Speaker 1: friend of hers also, the question still remains is why 705 00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:29,560 Speaker 1: this little boy had to die. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan 706 00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,080 Speaker 1: and this is bodybags