1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:03,000 Speaker 1: Hey, a quick note before we start this episode. This 2 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:05,520 Speaker 1: is the second part of a two part special, so 3 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 1: we encourage you to go back and listen to part 4 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:10,639 Speaker 1: one of the Strange Death of Jose de Jesus because 5 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: we'll be referring to it in this episode. And a 6 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:16,119 Speaker 1: quick warning, especially for those with little ones, there's some 7 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:18,920 Speaker 1: graphic language in the story about suicide that may be 8 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:21,479 Speaker 1: difficult for some listeners and may not be appropriate for 9 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:22,120 Speaker 1: young children. 10 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 2: From Futuro Media and PRX, It's Latino USA. I'm Maria 11 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 2: in Josa. Today the second episode of our two parts special, 12 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 2: the Strange Death of Jose Dejssous. The number of deaths 13 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 2: of people in immigration detention this fiscal year has doubled, 14 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 2: and so we're bringing back on the air an award 15 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 2: winning investigation that originally aired in twenty sixteen. Last week, 16 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 2: we brought you episode one of the Strange Death of 17 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 2: Josse Dejssus. Today, here's the second and final part of 18 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 2: our investigation. We've been telling the story of Jose Dejsu's 19 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:21,040 Speaker 2: de Nice Sagoun. He was found dead at the Eloy 20 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 2: Immigration detention facility in Arizona in twenty fifteen with a 21 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 2: sack stuffed down his throat. Producers Marlon Bishop, Fernanda Chari, 22 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 2: and myself first reported our investigation about his death in 23 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 2: twenty sixteen as a way to tell a larger story 24 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 2: about the conditions inside these immigration detention facilities. When we 25 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 2: left off last week, we had just received a package 26 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 2: in the mail containing surveillance footage from the Eloi detention 27 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 2: facility from the exact day that Jose Dejsus died. We 28 00:01:56,520 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 2: had requested it from the local police department. It would 29 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 2: provide us with some clues as to exactly what happened 30 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 2: to Jose de Hissus. 31 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: The first video has four hours of surveillance footage from 32 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: May twentieth, twenty fifteen, the de Jose died. The video 33 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 1: is grainy and it has no sound, and this is 34 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 1: on the day of his death, on May twentieth, twenty fifteen. 35 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, so let's start. 36 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: The surveillance camera is looking down at what seems to 37 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,919 Speaker 1: be one of the medical units at the Eloid Detention Center. 38 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: In the video, we see detainees walking around. Some are 39 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: on crutches, two others are being pushed around in wheelchairs. 40 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: This is clearly a low level holding area. 41 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:38,639 Speaker 3: So Remember, this is the point at which Jose is 42 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 3: still locked up by himself, but he's no longer on 43 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 3: suicide watch. He's been downgraded and we don't really know why, 44 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 3: and now he's being checked on every fifteen minutes by 45 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 3: a guard. That's what I say, is that the shower 46 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 3: area maybe. 47 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 4: Yeah. 48 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 1: In the video, at about two thirty pm, we finally 49 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 1: see Jose. We see two guards walk up to his 50 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: cell and escort him out. They walk him to the 51 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 1: back of the frame and he walks into an area 52 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 1: that the camera can't see, but we know from police 53 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: documents that this is when Jose took a shower. Minutes later, 54 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 1: he's escorted back to his cell. 55 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 2: This is the last time Jose is seen walking around, 56 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 2: and it's the last time he leaves the cell where 57 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:15,959 Speaker 2: he dies. 58 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 1: About three hours go by in the surveillance footage, and 59 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 1: every fifteen minutes a guard is seen walking by Jose's door, 60 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: looking in and writing something down on a clipboard that's 61 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: hanging outside his door. 62 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 3: These are the checks that the doctor ordered, and yes, 63 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 3: the guard does come by every fifteen minutes, although he 64 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 3: doesn't spend much more than a few seconds looking in. 65 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 3: When he walks by. 66 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 2: Then at the five thirty pm check, the guard doesn't 67 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 2: just walk by. This time, he looks in and then pauses, 68 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 2: looks in. 69 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 1: At five twenty seven, stairs knocks on the door to 70 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 1: Jose's cell. 71 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 3: The guard is bending over, looking inside through a cutout 72 00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 3: in the door that they used to give detainees their food. 73 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 3: Continues to bend down for a couple of minutes, perhaps 74 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 3: calling out his. 75 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: Name, and now he's standing there, looks unsure, looks in again, 76 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: doesn't look at he's. 77 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 2: Called for help. 78 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 3: Now he's moving quickly to sign that he realized that 79 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 3: something must be wrong. 80 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:17,279 Speaker 2: Now they've got a detainee looking in the door, probably 81 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 2: speaking Spanish. 82 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:19,839 Speaker 1: No response. 83 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 2: He comes back with a few more guards. They opened 84 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 2: the door for a second and then quickly shut it again. 85 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 2: One by one, five guards and two nurses gather outside 86 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 2: the door, waiting for another guard to come with a 87 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 2: protective shield. Seven minutes have gone by since the guard 88 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:40,600 Speaker 2: found him unresponsive. Finally they opened the door and move in. 89 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 2: This is where the second video comes in. It's a 90 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 2: handheld video taken by a guard in that very moment, 91 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 2: the moment the guards and medical staff enter Jose's cell. 92 00:04:58,040 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 2: Oh my, god. 93 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 3: Hard to watch. 94 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,159 Speaker 2: Oh my god, Oh my god. All right, so the 95 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 2: first thing we see is actually just a stop frame 96 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 2: of some feet like looking like they're running. 97 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 1: How long the video is? 98 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 5: How long? 99 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 6: Is it? 100 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 1: Three? 101 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 4: Oh my god, this is. 102 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 1: Gonna be intense people. The video starts with Jose lying 103 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:28,719 Speaker 1: face down on a green mattress. He's not moving, and 104 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: the first guard that goes in puts a riot shield 105 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: on his back. Jose is still alive, but unresponsive. 106 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 2: Now Jose is clearly making choking sounds and his body 107 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 2: is entirely limbed. Somebody misdiagnoses and says he's having a seizure. 108 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 2: Somebody else says, if he's sees he just leave him there. 109 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 7: Yes, he's having a seizure. 110 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 8: Okay. 111 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,839 Speaker 3: Another guard grabs he says arms, pulls them behind his back, 112 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 3: and puts handcuffs on them. That's when the shield is removed. 113 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 2: The medical staff takes his pulse. Meanwhile, someone gives an 114 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,720 Speaker 2: order to take the handcuffs off. 115 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:17,919 Speaker 3: Yeah, take the tastcuffs up. One of the guards seems 116 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 3: to be having a hard time finding the right key 117 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 3: and then fitting the key in the handcuffs. He's struggling 118 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 3: to get them off of Jose. 119 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 1: Alright, because it's taking him so long. Another guard tries 120 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: to help him get the handcuffs off. Almost one minute 121 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 1: goes by before the handcuffs are removed. 122 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 4: Out during her. 123 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 3: To give you an idea of how much time a 124 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 3: minute is, that was just twelve seconds of it. 125 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 2: Right after the handcuffs are removed, the video stops. We've 126 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 2: been reporting on this case for so long. We've met 127 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 2: Jose's family, and we felt like we knew a lot 128 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 2: about him, and yet this is the first time that 129 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 2: we have ever seen him. 130 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: The footage is haunting, and yes, it leaves us with 131 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: some answers, but with even more questions. 132 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 3: It's possible that they're doing everything by the book, but 133 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 3: there's no way around it. Is that looking at it, 134 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 3: you know, looking at them, like spend forty five seconds 135 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 3: fiddle with keys on handcuffing them while a man is 136 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 3: dying is super hard to watch. 137 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: You know, we know what happens, We know he dies. 138 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 1: So we just watched the last two minutes and fifty 139 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 1: three seconds of somebody being alive. It's a lot and 140 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: knowing what we know now the people in that room 141 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: didn't know, but we know that what we're watching is 142 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 1: somebody who put a sock down his mouth so far 143 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: down his throat we can't even see it. 144 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 2: Then the question now for me is what would have 145 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 2: driven him to do this, what would have made him 146 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 2: feel so helpless? 147 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 3: And now we also have to figure out what to 148 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 3: do with what we know. 149 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: We've watched something that his family hasn't. We know something 150 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 1: that other people don't. That only a handful of people 151 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: who were in the room. They're really the only people 152 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: who have seen this who know what it looked like 153 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 1: exactly at that moment. So there's this weird feeling of 154 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 1: knowing that we got to see that. 155 00:08:57,440 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 3: I mean, I feel like we should show it to 156 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:00,679 Speaker 3: a doctor or something. 157 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 2: I'm very worried about the family because the way Jose 158 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 2: de Jesu's dies is pretty terrible. So I'm thinking a 159 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 2: lot about, you know, our responsibility to share this with 160 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 2: them and all the details that we found and just 161 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 2: how horrible that's going to be. Jose's parents, Silberio and Elisa, 162 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 2: and his brother Gabriel had told us that no matter 163 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 2: how difficult it was, whatever we uncovered, they wanted to know. 164 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 2: And so we picked up the phone and called Gabriel 165 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:33,439 Speaker 2: in Las Vegas. 166 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 1: We tell him that we have some sensitive information about 167 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 1: his brother's death, and we ask him if you would 168 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: like to see it. 169 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:44,560 Speaker 2: He says yes, and so we're off to Las Vegas 170 00:09:44,720 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 2: once again. Yes, welcome back to this special edition of 171 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 2: Latino USA The Strange Death of Jose Dejsus. I'm Mariao 172 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 2: Josa with producers Fernanda Chavarri and Marlon Bishop. 173 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 3: When we left off, we had just called Jose Dejsus's brother, 174 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 3: gabrielle and told him about the videos we have that 175 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 3: would give him more information about the last moments of 176 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 3: Jose's life. 177 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 1: Gabriel said that, no matter how painful it might be, 178 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 1: he wanted to see the videos, so we went to 179 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 1: his home in Las Vegas to show him. Okay, so 180 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: we just landed in Las Vegas and we took a cab. 181 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 2: The first time that we came here was almost a 182 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:50,719 Speaker 2: year ago. On both occasions we visited this family here 183 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:55,320 Speaker 2: in Las Vegas in a very sad situation. When we 184 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 2: get to Gabriel's house, we see his sister Rosario and 185 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 2: their parents, Silberio and Elisa, who are visiting from Mexico. 186 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: Gabriel says, the four of them talked it over and 187 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 1: decided that they would all sit together and watch these 188 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 1: videos as a family. 189 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 3: We start with the first video, the four hours of 190 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:16,199 Speaker 3: surveillance footage. That's when the family sees that Jose was 191 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:18,679 Speaker 3: alone with the door locked, and that nobody went in 192 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 3: for those hours before his death, putting to rest any 193 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 3: doubt about whether or not somebody had heard Jose. 194 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 2: Still, seeing all of this for the first time is 195 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:29,959 Speaker 2: upsetting for them. 196 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:39,440 Speaker 1: A borgoo and he looks. 197 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,679 Speaker 2: If he was already not well, then why did they 198 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 2: lock him up alone? 199 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 3: Rosario asks, this is where they go to h to 200 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 3: take him out for a shower. 201 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:48,559 Speaker 1: And when we get to the part of the surveillance 202 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: video that shows Jose being escorted out of his cell 203 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 1: and taken to the showers, his family goes quiet. This 204 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 1: is the only time Jose can be seen alive and 205 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: walking around in the video, so they ask us to 206 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 1: rewind that grainy tape and play that footage again. 207 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 3: We fast forward and get to the part in the 208 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 3: video three hours later when the guard first notices that 209 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 3: Jose is not moving. 210 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 1: Gabriel watches the time stamp on that surveillance footage and 211 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 1: he gets visibly more and more upset as the minutes 212 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 1: go by and nobody enters his brother's cell. 213 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 9: How come to the security guard, he's been like two 214 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:31,079 Speaker 9: minutes and he's still talking to a body, let's say 215 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 9: like that, because and he's he's not doing nothing about it. 216 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 2: He asks us again to tell him what time it 217 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 2: was when the guards noticed Hose was unresponsive, and that's 218 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 2: when he realizes that it's almost exactly the same time 219 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 2: that he had tried to call and check up on 220 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:47,319 Speaker 2: his brother. 221 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 9: And they tell me that it was it wasn't going 222 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 9: to be possible for them to communicate with my brother. 223 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 9: Was okay, I'll come back tomorrow. And then I went 224 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 9: to the restaurant. We ordered eat and after I take 225 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 9: some pictures and I can see the date and the 226 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 9: time of picture. 227 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 2: So you you were calling to speak to your brother 228 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 2: at about five. 229 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 9: O'clock between five and six on the day that he. 230 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 2: Died, and all they said to you was he was unavailable. 231 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:21,599 Speaker 9: Yes, that's what they told me. It wasn't going to 232 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 9: be bossible, and I was, I will okay, call back tomorrow. 233 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 9: I never thought about this was going on. 234 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 1: We finished with the surveillance footage and ask the family 235 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 1: once again if they're sure that they want to watch 236 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: the video from inside. 237 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 10: Joseself done no, no, the Nemos local. 238 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 2: But his father says that no matter how tough it is, 239 00:13:57,160 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 2: they have to watch so they can see what happened, 240 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 2: and so we press played. 241 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 1: Up until this point, the family didn't know much about 242 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 1: what happened to Jose other than what was in the 243 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 1: autopsy report. They had no idea that Jose was alive. 244 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 1: When the guards entered his cell, Rosadio tries to look 245 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 1: away when she sees her brother choking and being handkuffed. 246 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 7: An oppo. 247 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 2: At one point, Gabriel asked his family if they wanted 248 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 2: to keep watching, and they all said yes. As they watched, 249 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 2: they kept asking why isn't anyone helping him? 250 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 9: If the video is showing that, if he did commit suicide, 251 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 9: what lends my brother to do that? 252 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:38,359 Speaker 2: For Gabriel, that question why is bigger than just Jose. 253 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 9: And this can happen to another family today tomorrow? We 254 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 9: don't know. They don't think like if they're helping a 255 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 9: family member, you know it's a person, no matter what, 256 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 9: it's a person. 257 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 2: We say goodbye to the family in Las Vegas and 258 00:15:57,960 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 2: head back to New York. 259 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 3: There, we wach out to a medical professional who might 260 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 3: be able to answer Gabrielle's questions about the quality of 261 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 3: Hosea's medical care. 262 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 1: ELOI. 263 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 7: My name is doctor Allan Keller. 264 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: Doctor Keller directs a program at New York University on 265 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 1: the intersection of healthcare and human rights. 266 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 3: In the late nineties, he led a groundbreaking study of 267 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 3: health care and detention. 268 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 7: One of the things we found is that immigration detention 269 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 7: is harmful to the health and well being of those detained, 270 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 7: particularly psychologically and emotionally. They are held in prison like conditions, 271 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 7: monitored by guards who come from a correctional mindset. 272 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 3: Keller found in his study that in the places where 273 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 3: immigrants were detained, medical services were really set up for 274 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 3: people who were going to be there for a very 275 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 3: short period of time. 276 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 7: There was virtually no mental health services. 277 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: His study also found that many detainees often would not 278 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: report that they were depressed or suicidal. 279 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 7: Because they knew it was a one way ticket to 280 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:08,119 Speaker 7: segregation what many places is referred to as the whole. 281 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:11,679 Speaker 3: Doctor Keller says that since then, ICE has created detention 282 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:14,680 Speaker 3: standards that have led to improvements, but not nearly enough. 283 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 7: So I watched the video several times. 284 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,159 Speaker 2: The first time we asked doctor Keller to watch the 285 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:21,639 Speaker 2: video of Hosey's death with us and tell us what 286 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:23,399 Speaker 2: he saw from a medical perspective. 287 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:24,640 Speaker 1: Let me go ahead in pressplay. 288 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 7: Okay, So the first thing they do is handcuff him. 289 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 7: What I notice is missing is that they're not looking 290 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:35,159 Speaker 7: in his in his mouth. 291 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:36,439 Speaker 4: YEA. 292 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 7: That like standard well, you know look in cardiopulmonary resuscitation 293 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:45,639 Speaker 7: and in you know, basic life support when you're taught 294 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 7: the ABC's A stands for airway, B stands for breathing. 295 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 7: C stands for circulation. So the first thing you do, 296 00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:58,919 Speaker 7: we're supposed to do is to check if they have 297 00:17:59,000 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 7: a patent airway. 298 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:02,439 Speaker 3: That means is the airway open? Can the person breathe? 299 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 7: The way you do that is you look in someone's mouth. 300 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 7: I see he's feeling for a pulse, assessing circulation. 301 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 5: That's the hand on the neck, right, Yeah. 302 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:14,399 Speaker 7: So that's the C. But they skipped the A and 303 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:14,639 Speaker 7: the B. 304 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 2: Which means they didn't check his airweight or his breathing. 305 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:21,159 Speaker 7: The first thing going through their head was not A 306 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:24,959 Speaker 7: for airway, It was S for safety and that's in 307 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:28,479 Speaker 7: many ways understandable. But again between the handcuffing and then 308 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 7: uncuffing him, that's precious time. The clock, the clock of 309 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:34,159 Speaker 7: life is ticking. 310 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 1: And doctor Keller says, if the staff really did think 311 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: that Jose was having a seizure, that would explain why 312 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 1: they might not have wanted to open his mouth. But 313 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:44,639 Speaker 1: from what he can see in the video, it didn't 314 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: look like a seizure. 315 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 7: It does raise a question to me about what training 316 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:56,200 Speaker 7: in advanced life support the individuals who showed up had. 317 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 7: But you know, as I mentioned, the ABC's or something 318 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,119 Speaker 7: that every lifeguard is taught. 319 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:07,200 Speaker 2: There are over fifteen hundred people held at ELOI, yet 320 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:10,399 Speaker 2: there is no medical doctor or psychologist on site twenty 321 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:13,439 Speaker 2: four to seven. According to the police report, the medical 322 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 2: staff that responded in this case was two nurses and 323 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 2: a physician's assistant. 324 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 3: Doctor Keller says, even though isolation can make symptoms worse, 325 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 3: it's the right thing to do when somebody is in 326 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 3: immediate danger. 327 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 2: After looking at the available facts of Hose's case, doctor 328 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 2: Keller's overall feeling is that Hose's death could have been prevented, 329 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 2: and for him, this case goes beyond emergency care. 330 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 7: Who was this man? This was a man who may 331 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 7: have had a very serious illness depression, but he was 332 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:50,120 Speaker 7: also a man who had a family that he missed terribly. 333 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 7: He was also a man that had lived in this 334 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 7: country for some time and had not been here legally, 335 00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:00,159 Speaker 7: and that's a problem. But he had not been a 336 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:06,639 Speaker 7: danger to our country. Why was this individual in immigration 337 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 7: detention in the first place? And did he need to be? 338 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 7: And a haunting question that I think we all need 339 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 7: to live with. 340 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: The question raised by doctor Keller in a lot of 341 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: ways is central to the investigation of Jose's death. Whether 342 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 1: a man in extreme psychological distress who turned himself over 343 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 1: to border patrols seeking protection, should that man have been 344 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: taken to a detention center in the first place. 345 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 3: Not long after we spoke with doctor Keller, something happened 346 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 3: that gave us some more perspective on that question, something big. 347 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,920 Speaker 1: There was a document that ICE just posted on their 348 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: website with reports of different deaths that have happened in 349 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 1: immigration custody, including the one of Jose de Jesus. 350 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 2: We weren't expecting it, but shortly before we went to 351 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 2: air with our series, ICE released an internal investigation into 352 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 2: says death by its own Office of Detention Oversight. Investigators 353 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,119 Speaker 2: went to Eloy about a month after Jose died, but 354 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:11,160 Speaker 2: the report wasn't made public until over a year later. 355 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: From the moment JOSEA Hishu's died, this is the document 356 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 1: we've been waiting for. 357 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a lot. 358 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: The report fills in many of the missing pieces of 359 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 1: the puzzle, starting with what happened at the border checkpoint. 360 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: Border Patrol agents who were interviewed for this report said 361 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: Jose was hysterical when he ran up to them. 362 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 3: Twice, jumping from a concrete bench in a Border patrol 363 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 3: holdroom and landing on his head. 364 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,160 Speaker 1: Jose told agents that he was trying to break his 365 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,920 Speaker 1: own neck so he could die before somebody else could 366 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 1: kill him. Remember, in the autopsy, the medical examiner found 367 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 1: mysterious head injuries. This could explain those. 368 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 2: Border Patrol took Jose to Banner University Medical Center in Tucson, 369 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 2: a hospital a few hours north, and according to the report, 370 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 2: Jose was treated for his head injuries and given a 371 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 2: neck brace, but hospital staff said he couldn't be seen 372 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,440 Speaker 2: by a psychiatrist because he was in the cusp of 373 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 2: the Border Patrol. 374 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: We reached out to hospital reps and they said that 375 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:08,440 Speaker 1: every patient at Banner receives emergency medical care regardless of citizenship, 376 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 1: but they said because of privacy laws, they couldn't comment 377 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:11,879 Speaker 1: on this case. 378 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 3: So Jose left the hospital without seeing a psychologist just 379 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 3: one day after his suicide attempt and was taken to 380 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 3: the Eloid Detention Center. 381 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,159 Speaker 1: There were no medical or mental health records from the 382 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,200 Speaker 1: hospital for Jose when he arrived there, even though he 383 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: showed up wearing the neck brace. 384 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,359 Speaker 2: The Border Patrol agents who dropped Hose off at ELOI 385 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,399 Speaker 2: told the staff there that he had been suicidal, but 386 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,400 Speaker 2: the ELOI staff didn't flag Jose for special treatment. 387 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 1: So at this point there were three instances where people 388 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,359 Speaker 1: knew Jose had tried to kill himself, yet when he 389 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:45,119 Speaker 1: enters ELOI, he's put with the general population. On the 390 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 1: first day. 391 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 3: Here's text from the internal investigation. 392 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 1: He said that it was the first time that he 393 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 1: felt desperate enough to kill himself and that he felt 394 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,359 Speaker 1: safer since arriving at the Eloid Detention Center and he 395 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:57,639 Speaker 1: no longer wanted to kill. 396 00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 3: Himself routine rather than urge. Is how the health referral 397 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 3: was classified. 398 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:04,439 Speaker 1: That's a little surprising to me. 399 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 2: The report also helps explain something that other detainees had 400 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 2: told us that they had heard Hose screaming for help. 401 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,720 Speaker 2: The report says there were multiple use of force incidents 402 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 2: by guards during the course of Hosse's second day at ELOI. 403 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 2: When he tried to run away from them. 404 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,119 Speaker 3: They decided the need to take the nissagoon to the 405 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,160 Speaker 3: ground in order to gain control over him. To describe 406 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 3: the nisagun as completely uncompliant, incoperative, and aggressive. During this incident, the. 407 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 2: Report says, at times Jose was screaming, help me, call 408 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 2: my lawyer, and this is brutality. 409 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 1: Jose was later seen by a psychologist inside the detention 410 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 1: center who diagnosed him with a brief reactive psychosis, something 411 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 1: the psychologists said could happen in response to trauma or 412 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:54,480 Speaker 1: major stress and could cause hallucinations, delusions, and confusion. 413 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 2: The doctor ordered a nurse to give Jose two antipsychotic medications, 414 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 2: even if they needed to be give to him involuntarily. 415 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,199 Speaker 3: But the nurse didn't think Jose needed them because he 416 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,640 Speaker 3: had calmed down, and in the end she never gave 417 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 3: them to him. 418 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,440 Speaker 1: The next day, on the day Jose died, the psychologist 419 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 1: checked up on him, unaware that the nurse hadn't given 420 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,880 Speaker 1: Jose the meds he was prescribed, and Jose's behavior appeared 421 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 1: to have completely changed by then. 422 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 3: This so this is a statement that is used to 423 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 3: take him off suicide watch and put him on fifteen 424 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 3: minute watch. 425 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,680 Speaker 1: Thirty one year old English speaking male from Mexico presents 426 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:31,680 Speaker 1: today with a clear censorium, embarrassed about the events of yesterday, 427 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 1: states that his mind suddenly started making connections between voices, 428 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:39,399 Speaker 1: people's sounds, and perceptions that convinced him that he was 429 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 1: going to die. 430 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,639 Speaker 3: Here, he has no explanation for why he started thinking 431 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 3: that way. 432 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 1: He's completely agreeable to ongoing mental health services, is indicated 433 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 1: and requests classes or groups on personal growth. 434 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 2: This is the point when Jose's level of supervision was downgraded. 435 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 2: Nine hours later, Jose ended his life life. 436 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,199 Speaker 3: Getting the documents from this internal investigation finally helped explain 437 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,640 Speaker 3: so many things that we had been wondering about over 438 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 3: the year we'd been investigating this case. For example, why 439 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,200 Speaker 3: the guards waited for the shield before they entered hose Sell, 440 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 3: what the delusional behavior was that led the detention center 441 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,199 Speaker 3: to put him on suicide watch, and why he was 442 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 3: heard screaming for help. 443 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 1: The report also highlights a number of deficiencies in the 444 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 1: investigator's own words in how the detention center handled the incident. 445 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 1: Here are the big ones. 446 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 2: For one, they found that the doctor didn't follow procedure 447 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 2: when taking Jose off of suicide watch because he didn't 448 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 2: fill out a thorough mental health evaluation or to check 449 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:40,440 Speaker 2: to see if the nurse ever gave him the anti 450 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 2: psychotic drugs that he was prescribed. 451 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,359 Speaker 1: Also, the guards may have needed back up when entering 452 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: Jose Sell, but the report determined that waiting seven minutes 453 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,719 Speaker 1: for the protective shield before helping him was too long, 454 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,640 Speaker 1: especially because at one point there were more than four 455 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 1: guards waiting at the door. 456 00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:59,879 Speaker 3: And another thing from the report, the investigators found that 457 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 3: Loy had no mental health providers on call after hours, 458 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 3: a major breach of ICE healthcare standards. 459 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,439 Speaker 1: So, after reading all of these recommendations, we wanted to 460 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,359 Speaker 1: hear directly from ICE. It took a month of back 461 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,399 Speaker 1: and forth before we were finally granted an interview. We 462 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 1: spoke with Liz city Yopereta. She's the senior advisor to 463 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 1: the agency's director. 464 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 2: In one of these reports made public regarding the suicide 465 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 2: of Jose de Jesus Denis Sagun, there was criticism raised 466 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,680 Speaker 2: as to how the medical staff acted and pointed out 467 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 2: several failings on the part of CCA. What is your 468 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:37,120 Speaker 2: response to those criticisms. 469 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,440 Speaker 8: While not going into any specific scenarios, we are constantly 470 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 8: reviewing our practices as well as the vendors that we 471 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 8: use the practices that they use. We are all adhering 472 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 8: to a set of standards, and if those standards are 473 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 8: not being met, then we would take quick action to 474 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 8: adhere to those standards. 475 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,119 Speaker 2: But according to the ACLU, the standards City Yepidi eight 476 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 2: is talking about are not legally binding under US law 477 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 2: and therefore difficult to enforce. 478 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,159 Speaker 1: We also requested an interview with the Corrections Corporation of 479 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,959 Speaker 1: America or CCA, the private prison company that runs Eloy. 480 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 1: CCA declined the interview request, but said that they would 481 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,200 Speaker 1: respond to some questions in writing, so we sent those 482 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 1: questions but got no response. 483 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 2: The conclusion of the ICE internal investigation points out the 484 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 2: lack of a proper suicide prevention plan at Eloy, despite 485 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 2: the fact that Hose's suicide was the third since twenty 486 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:37,439 Speaker 2: thirteen and the fifth since two thousand and five, making 487 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 2: it by far the facility with the most immigrant suicides 488 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 2: in the country. 489 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,479 Speaker 1: The report ends with a note that Eloy should develop 490 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:46,119 Speaker 1: such a plan. 491 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 3: We wanted to know, though, will this report, however harsh, 492 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,200 Speaker 3: lead to any changes. Will there be any consequences for 493 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,400 Speaker 3: Cca or for Eloy. In a follow up email after 494 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 3: our interview, we asked Ice whether the report has any 495 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 3: teeth to affect changes. Ice didn't give a specific answer 496 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,119 Speaker 3: to that question, but sent a written statement saying that 497 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 3: the release of these reports quote reflects ICE's continuing resolve 498 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 3: to improve conditions of confinement. 499 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,919 Speaker 2: Coming up on Latino USA, the collateral damage of immigration detention. 500 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,640 Speaker 6: Oh no, I just I think we need to make 501 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,880 Speaker 6: a difference before other people start killing themselves or other 502 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 6: people get killed. 503 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 2: That's coming up next on Latino USA. Yes, Welcome back 504 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 2: to Latino USA and Part two of the Strange Death 505 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,120 Speaker 2: of Jose de Jesus. I'm Marie no Josa with producers 506 00:28:56,160 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 2: Fernanda Chawari and Marlon Bishop. One evening while we were 507 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,720 Speaker 2: in Phoenix during our reporting on Jose, the Hissus's death, 508 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 2: we visited a detention support group meeting. 509 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 3: The meeting was at Pointe Ponte Is, the immigrant activist 510 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 3: group that first tipped us off to Jose's story, and 511 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 3: many of the people here at this meeting have family 512 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 3: members in detention or have been in detention themselves. They 513 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 3: gather here every week to support each other, to organize campaigns, 514 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 3: and to figure out how to get their loved ones 515 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:38,520 Speaker 3: back home. 516 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 2: We came here because we wanted to get a wider 517 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 2: view of what it's like to go through immigration to tension, 518 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 2: and the same complaints kept coming up with all of 519 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 2: the people that we spoke. 520 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 7: With, a La Selda Lastin and biem free as being free. 521 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 3: As Jose Mahia says, they kept the cells freezing cold 522 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,680 Speaker 3: at ELOI. Others talked about being disrespected by guards or 523 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 3: about the bad food, but the most persistent complaint was 524 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 3: about medical care. 525 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 9: Okay, you methion requests METO requests, but okayman Alto. 526 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 3: He says that to see a doctor inside Eloi, you 527 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 3: have to put in a request first. He maintains it 528 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 3: could take days for the request to arrive, and then 529 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 3: a few more days before you would actually get to 530 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 3: see a doctor. 531 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 1: He says more often than not. After all, that medical 532 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 1: staff would just tell patients to drink water and send 533 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 1: them on their way. That's something that immigrant rights activists 534 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,040 Speaker 1: in other parts of the country have also complained about 535 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:30,840 Speaker 1: for years. 536 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 2: US as we look at sympatheesia and detention isn't just 537 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 2: hard on the people being detained, Its effects ripple out 538 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 2: to a whole web of other people. Take Jose Mahia's 539 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 2: daughter Alejandra, for example. 540 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 6: It really hurts when you see your own father go 541 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 6: to them. 542 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 2: Her dad was inside Eloi for nine or ten months. 543 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 2: Alejandra was in high school at the time. 544 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 6: It was also during like Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year's and 545 00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 6: my Birthday, like all those events I had to like 546 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,000 Speaker 6: go through them without him. So it was like, really 547 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 6: no nothing to celebrate. Would we wouldn't celebrate because it 548 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 6: just wasn't the same. 549 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 1: For Alexandra, like for many of the immigrants here at 550 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 1: the Puente meeting, the dead of Jose de Jessou's hit 551 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 1: close to home. 552 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 6: I saw the picture of him on the internet, like 553 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 6: I was curious. I want to know how he looked like, 554 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:28,080 Speaker 6: and he must have been really depressed to do that. 555 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 6: I like give things to God that my dad didn't 556 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 6: have to go through that. 557 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 2: And even though her own father is out, she thinks 558 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 2: about those still inside. 559 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 6: I don't know. I just think we need to make 560 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 6: a difference before other people start killing himself or other 561 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 6: people get killed. 562 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 2: Earlier in the show, doctor Alan Keller posed a question, 563 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,600 Speaker 2: was Jose de Jesus a man that needed to be detained? 564 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 1: And that's the big question. It's a medical question, it's 565 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 1: a political question, and it's an ethical question. 566 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 3: And it goes beyond Jose's case. If the country is 567 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 3: detaining people at taxpayer expense just to eventually deport them 568 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 3: or to let them go while they're waiting to get 569 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 3: their legal status resolved, well what's the point. 570 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 2: Someone who thinks a lot about the ethics of detention 571 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:26,280 Speaker 2: is Grace Meng. She's a senior researcher at Human Rights Watch, 572 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 2: and her organization recently put out a report about lapses 573 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 2: in medical care that led to deaths in immigration detention centers. 574 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 2: That report included the death of Jose de Jesus. 575 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 11: The detention of a migrant should be a matter of 576 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,640 Speaker 11: the last resort. It should be an exception, not the role. 577 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 1: She challenges the notion that someone like Jose should have 578 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 1: been put in detention at all. 579 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 11: The thought that someone who is expressing fear of being 580 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 11: killed in his home country, that we would put that 581 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 11: person in a jail like setting is the first sort 582 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 11: of assumption that I would really question. Any psychological or 583 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 11: mental health problems would likely be increased in a jail 584 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 11: like setting. 585 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,280 Speaker 2: If the people who had who were with Jose de 586 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:13,680 Speaker 2: Jsus had actually wanted another alternative as opposed to taking 587 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 2: him to Eloy and put him in detention, what would 588 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 2: those alternatives, what do they exist? What would they have been? 589 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 11: If you find someone who has some serious medical need, 590 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 11: whether it's mental health or physical health, they should be 591 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 11: in a hospital. They should not be just left willing 592 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:30,800 Speaker 11: nilly on the street or an intension center. And I 593 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 11: think it's possible to say that in Denisagun's case, he 594 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,360 Speaker 11: should have been in a hospital and been given close 595 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 11: monitoring and treatment. 596 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 2: Instead, he was taken to ELOI, And. 597 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,280 Speaker 11: I think definitely his case, especially because it happened after 598 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 11: other suicide at the same facility, raised the serious questions 599 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 11: about how seriously this facility is taking suicide prevention. 600 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 1: In addition to the five suicides at the Eloid Detention 601 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 1: Center since two thousand and five, there were fifty three 602 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 1: people placed on suicide watch there in twenty thirty alone, 603 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 1: according to the most recent available reports from ICE. 604 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,760 Speaker 2: But Liz Sidio Bedeta, the high ranking ICE official we 605 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,920 Speaker 2: spoke to, believe suicide is generally not a big problem 606 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 2: in the ICE detention system nationwide. 607 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:13,719 Speaker 8: We looked it up and out of more than three 608 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 8: hundred thousand people who brought into our facilities last year, 609 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:22,360 Speaker 8: one individual took their life, and that, of course that's unfortunate. 610 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,439 Speaker 8: We think that one is too many, But this does 611 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 8: tell us that our protocols to prevent these types of 612 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,800 Speaker 8: scenarios are being effective, largely speaking. 613 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,720 Speaker 1: But stories like that of Jose put the whole detention 614 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 1: immigration system and its purpose under scrutiny. For years, immigrant 615 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,320 Speaker 1: rights activists have criticized the use of detention as a deterrent, 616 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,160 Speaker 1: saying that keeping people without criminal records in prison like 617 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 1: facilities and using that to send a message of don't 618 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,360 Speaker 1: come here illegally is a violation of their human rights. 619 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 12: Illegal migration into this country has dropped considerably since. 620 00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,960 Speaker 3: In twenty fourteen, J. Johnson, the Secretary of Homeland Security, 621 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,719 Speaker 3: said quote, we want to send a message that our 622 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,759 Speaker 3: border is not open to illegal migration, and if you 623 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 3: come here, you should not expect to simply be released. 624 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 12: But we're certain that it is also doing very large 625 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:16,120 Speaker 12: measure to the deterrent factor of our border security efforts. 626 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:20,320 Speaker 2: However, when we asked Liz idiopa Ata, the senior ICE official, 627 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:24,440 Speaker 2: if detention was used as a deterrent illegal immigration, she 628 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:26,400 Speaker 2: said it wasn't so black and white. 629 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:28,800 Speaker 8: It's not something that we're looking as a way to 630 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 8: provide a punitive measure to individuals who are who are 631 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:34,920 Speaker 8: crossing our borders. But we are charged with the enforcement 632 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,719 Speaker 8: of immigration laws. Part of that charge is to to 633 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,359 Speaker 8: ensure that individuals are not with the misunderstanding that our 634 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,160 Speaker 8: borders are open for free crossings. 635 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,360 Speaker 3: But Grace May of Human Rights Watch questions the strategy 636 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:48,800 Speaker 3: of detaining so many people. 637 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:55,399 Speaker 11: Immigration detension is allowed in exceptional circumstances on the international law, 638 00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:58,560 Speaker 11: but in the US is just a regular practice. It 639 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:03,760 Speaker 11: happens to sound seekers, to mothers with children, to people 640 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,520 Speaker 11: who are long term permanent residents in the US who've 641 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:10,719 Speaker 11: lived here for decades. There for many of them, there's 642 00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:14,360 Speaker 11: no individualized assessment of whether they're a flight risk, whether 643 00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:19,879 Speaker 11: they are direct to public safety. And I don't think 644 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:24,000 Speaker 11: that a system that deprives people of their liberty in 645 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 11: any sort of automatic way is one that is fair 646 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:31,240 Speaker 11: or humane, and so I certainly would support an effort 647 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 11: to severely and significantly reduce the immigration defensive system in 648 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:35,560 Speaker 11: the US. 649 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,239 Speaker 2: According to a report by the Migration Policy Institute, the 650 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,680 Speaker 2: US spends more money on immigration enforcement and detention than 651 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:47,080 Speaker 2: on all other federal law enforcement agencies combined. That includes 652 00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:50,319 Speaker 2: the FBI, the DEA, the Secret Service, and so on. 653 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,680 Speaker 2: So Grace Men wants to know why. 654 00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:59,959 Speaker 11: Is it focused on counter terrorism? Because certainly the fast, fast, 655 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:03,359 Speaker 11: faster people being stopped at the border have no one 656 00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,760 Speaker 11: would say that they are in any way connected to terrorism. 657 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:11,400 Speaker 11: Is it because there's some severe damage happening to the US. 658 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,960 Speaker 11: There's no evidence that immigrants commit crimes at higher rates 659 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 11: than Native four Naturally, there's evidence that they commit crime 660 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 11: at lower rates than Native Americans. I think on this 661 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:25,080 Speaker 11: issue of immigration enforcement, there has not been a really robust, 662 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 11: smart conversation on what are we spending. Do the benefits 663 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,680 Speaker 11: outweigh the costs. Instead, we've just decided to spend and 664 00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:47,920 Speaker 11: spend and spend. 665 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,520 Speaker 4: We have walked two point five miles. Yeah, it's gonna 666 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:51,399 Speaker 4: be a while. That's it. 667 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:57,120 Speaker 2: On the one year anniversary of hose Jsus's death, immigrant 668 00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:00,200 Speaker 2: activists march to the Alloyd Detention Center to hold the 669 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:01,360 Speaker 2: vigil in his honor. 670 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:05,239 Speaker 4: We're out here today in Eloi, Arizona. 671 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:08,840 Speaker 2: That's Francisca Burchas, the organizing director at Puente where we 672 00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:10,760 Speaker 2: attended the detention support group. 673 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,759 Speaker 4: And we're walking. There's about fifty of us that are 674 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:19,040 Speaker 4: making a fourm mile walk to mark the one year 675 00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:22,759 Speaker 4: anniversary of Hoste de Hesu Saloon Denisa's death, and also 676 00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,160 Speaker 4: to mark the one hundred and fifty one lives that 677 00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:29,240 Speaker 4: have been lost throughout detention centers in the country without 678 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 4: anyone really knowing their names, the circumstances, their stories. It's 679 00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:38,040 Speaker 4: going to be mostly ceremonial. We hope to eat, to 680 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:42,759 Speaker 4: break bread together, to play music as honoring Hosta de 681 00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:44,840 Speaker 4: Hasoos and a lot of the people that have passed away. 682 00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:48,520 Speaker 4: If the wind is nice to us, will have lit candles. 683 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,520 Speaker 3: In one hundred degree heat, the activists made their way 684 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,520 Speaker 3: through the tiny desert town of Eloi and stopped right 685 00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:58,880 Speaker 3: outside the fence surrounding the detention center. 686 00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,480 Speaker 2: Some of the people in the crowd were former detainees themselves. 687 00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:07,960 Speaker 2: They gave short speeches, hoping that detainees inside might hear them. 688 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:12,120 Speaker 2: Plica porquetski. 689 00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:13,880 Speaker 5: Do you see the proteqhuidos. 690 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,040 Speaker 1: They're happy to see us here, says a man named 691 00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:19,919 Speaker 1: Juaniel Cornejo. They feel protected, the way I felt when 692 00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,200 Speaker 1: I was inside there and saw you all out here 693 00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:23,000 Speaker 1: supporting us. 694 00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:27,880 Speaker 3: Another man read a poem written from the imagined perspective 695 00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:31,360 Speaker 3: of Jose de Jesus. What it lacked in biographical accuracy, 696 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:33,520 Speaker 3: it made up for in raw emotion. 697 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:39,000 Speaker 2: I loved life, he says, I loved my children. I 698 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,120 Speaker 2: wanted to return home to Mexico one day, a success 699 00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:46,000 Speaker 2: story like so many I had heard, and I did return, 700 00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:48,680 Speaker 2: but I returned feet first. 701 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,120 Speaker 1: The organizers had hoped to get some attention with their vigil, 702 00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,960 Speaker 1: but almost no media showed up. Telemundo was there but 703 00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:59,600 Speaker 1: left early. Yet Francisca was still hopeful they were making 704 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:00,279 Speaker 1: a nim act. 705 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:02,520 Speaker 4: We hope that this is a case that we can 706 00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,560 Speaker 4: bring to light, that we can profile it nationally, that 707 00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,920 Speaker 4: everybody will know this was his name, and that there 708 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:12,480 Speaker 4: will be some serious policy changes and in ways in 709 00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:14,920 Speaker 4: which you know our people, amigrant people are treated in 710 00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:20,440 Speaker 4: this country. 711 00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:23,399 Speaker 3: And then the activists read out the names of the dead, 712 00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:26,399 Speaker 3: over one hundred and fifty of them. The names hung 713 00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,120 Speaker 3: in the scorching air for a second each and then 714 00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:31,960 Speaker 3: one by one were carried off into the desert by 715 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:42,319 Speaker 3: the Arizona wind. 716 00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:43,560 Speaker 13: It's not. 717 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,719 Speaker 2: A year before when we first heard Josees Who's his name? 718 00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:04,879 Speaker 2: We had no idea where our search for answers would 719 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:08,000 Speaker 2: take us. At first, all we knew was that name 720 00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:10,719 Speaker 2: and that he died in a detention center with an 721 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:12,480 Speaker 2: orange sock in his throat. 722 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,279 Speaker 3: Over time, we met his family in Las Vegas and 723 00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:18,279 Speaker 3: then in Mexico, and the details began to fill themselves in. 724 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,960 Speaker 3: We requested documents and videos, and slowly but surely, the 725 00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,880 Speaker 3: truth of what happened to him came ever more into focus. 726 00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:28,640 Speaker 1: As we discovered those truths, we share them with Jose's family, 727 00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,200 Speaker 1: and now it was time to do that again. 728 00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:43,640 Speaker 2: Hell all, la Gabriel is Marie. We called the Jose's 729 00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:46,400 Speaker 2: brother Gabriel in Las Vegas. It had been about a 730 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:48,719 Speaker 2: month since we last saw him, and he hadn't heard 731 00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:51,759 Speaker 2: about the new documents that ICE had released, so we 732 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:52,480 Speaker 2: filled him. 733 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:57,040 Speaker 1: In No Santerra, Mosquevo, lo Paso, Juando Diego Ustoia de 734 00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:00,680 Speaker 1: la Patria Frontersa. We told him about his breath suicide 735 00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:03,640 Speaker 1: attempt at the border, and the psychosis at the detention center, 736 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,440 Speaker 1: about running away and being tackled repeatedly by guards, and 737 00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:14,200 Speaker 1: about not getting the medication he was prescribed in. After 738 00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,200 Speaker 1: we tell him this, Gabrielle says that, yeah, maybe something 739 00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:20,440 Speaker 1: happened that made his brother paranoid and suicidal, and that 740 00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:23,000 Speaker 1: maybe he got worse because he was locked up without 741 00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:26,640 Speaker 1: communication and didn't have anybody to tell him that everything 742 00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:30,239 Speaker 1: would be okay. 743 00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:33,719 Speaker 2: This situation could have been avoided, gabriel says, and it 744 00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:35,680 Speaker 2: can still be avoided for other people. 745 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:44,200 Speaker 5: And in the end, he says, it gives the family 746 00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:47,720 Speaker 5: some peace to know what really happened and to resign 747 00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:51,400 Speaker 5: themselves to the truth that Jose was suffering from mental 748 00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:54,279 Speaker 5: health issues at ELOI and that he died by suicide. 749 00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,560 Speaker 2: It's time to move forward in our lives, Gabrielle says. 750 00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:00,279 Speaker 2: There's nothing we can do to bring him back. Then, 751 00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:15,560 Speaker 2: could Jose His who says, story have ended another way? 752 00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:17,760 Speaker 2: There are so many what ifs. 753 00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:21,200 Speaker 1: What if he hadn't gone off his medication. What if 754 00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:23,239 Speaker 1: he had been allowed to see a psychiatrist in the 755 00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:26,719 Speaker 1: hospital before he was taken to the detention center. What 756 00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:28,720 Speaker 1: if he had been able to speak with his family 757 00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:30,359 Speaker 1: when he was so desperate to call them. 758 00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:33,480 Speaker 3: What if the guard had opened the door seven minutes sooner. 759 00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:36,040 Speaker 3: What if they had found the sock and had been 760 00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:36,879 Speaker 3: able to pull it out. 761 00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:07,720 Speaker 2: Josse is resting now in Mexico, in a beautiful grave 762 00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:10,880 Speaker 2: built by his family, in a little cemetery near the 763 00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:15,120 Speaker 2: Pacific Ocean, close to a place he once called home, 764 00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:19,239 Speaker 2: and so very far a whole border away from the 765 00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:47,480 Speaker 2: place he wanted home to be. That's it for today. 766 00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:51,160 Speaker 2: This episode was produced by Marlon Bishop and Fernanda Chavarri. 767 00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:55,120 Speaker 2: Our investigation was reported with assistance from The Marshall Project, 768 00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:59,880 Speaker 2: a nonprofit news organization covering criminal justice. Special thanks to 769 00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:05,239 Speaker 2: to Jimenaconde, Drighi Novetski, Sofia Pa Liisaka, Jonathan Hirsch, and 770 00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:10,240 Speaker 2: especially the Denis Saguon family. The Latino USA team includes 771 00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:15,720 Speaker 2: Victoria Strada, Renaldo Leanos Junior, Andre Lopez Cruzado, Lori mar Marquez, 772 00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:20,719 Speaker 2: Marta Martinez, Mike Sargent, Nor Saudi and Nancy Trujillo. Benillei 773 00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:25,000 Speaker 2: Ramidez is our co executive producer. Our engineers are Stephanie 774 00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:29,160 Speaker 2: Lebou and Julia Caruso. Our marketing manager is Louise Luna. 775 00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,560 Speaker 2: Our theme music was composed by Sanie RINOs. I'm your 776 00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:36,359 Speaker 2: host and co executive producer Mariao Posa. Remember you can 777 00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,960 Speaker 2: also find Latino USA on your podcast speed and on 778 00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:44,200 Speaker 2: our website Latino Usa dot org. Subscribe to Latino USA 779 00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:47,560 Speaker 2: wherever you get your podcasts. Join us again on our 780 00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:50,080 Speaker 2: next episode. In the meantime, I'll see you on all 781 00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:53,839 Speaker 2: of our social media. Catch me on Instagram. Yesta, la proxima, 782 00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,080 Speaker 2: Ciao tote ba yas. 783 00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:02,000 Speaker 13: Latino USA is made possible in part by the Ford Foundation, 784 00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:06,600 Speaker 13: working with visionaries on the front lines of social change worldwide. 785 00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:11,160 Speaker 13: The John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation. Funding for 786 00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:14,680 Speaker 13: Latino usas coverage of a Culture of Health is made 787 00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:17,120 Speaker 13: possible in part by a grant from the Robert Wood 788 00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:18,080 Speaker 13: Johnson Foundation