1 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:05,280 Speaker 1: And so he wanted me to know like he's seeking 2 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: me out, not the other way around. The problem Carrie, 3 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,719 Speaker 1: and this is something that I had to unpack as 4 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: I got older that I never really talked about is 5 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: I got that letter during the Final four. 6 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 2: And I was so not ready for that. 7 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 3: So you guessed it. The infamous and famous Fab five member. 8 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 4: Jalen Rose on the podcast today getting Naked. 9 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 5: Every Champion and Kerry Champions to be a Champion a 10 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 5: Champion and Kerry Champion and Kerry Chat be out a 11 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 5: Champion and Kerry Champion and Kerry Champire's Sports and Entertainment 12 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 5: and Naked. We're in the world with vulnerable considered were 13 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 5: coming moved to veil from entertainments the league. It's the 14 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 5: difference between what it's real and with the public seas. 15 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 5: So here's your favorite celebrities behind the scenes. Just refresh 16 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 5: you uped in the whole story, specific life alter rend 17 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 5: events to shake the person that you hear we gotta 18 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 5: champion and carry Champion nigger who did it? It's the 19 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:20,319 Speaker 5: greatest dispersion entertainment connecked with Kerry Champion and Carry Champion 20 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:22,919 Speaker 5: is to be a champion? Got a Champion and Carrie Champion, 21 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 5: Niggery got a champion and Carry Champion and Carrie Sheppi 22 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 5: g greatest sportsion entertainment can Naked War Today. 23 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 4: Our guest is a friend, a colleague, an excellent NBA player, 24 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 4: NBA vet retired most notable though, if I have to 25 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 4: be honest, for me, I came to know when Jalen 26 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:46,400 Speaker 4: Rose when he was playing at the University of Michigan. 27 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 4: Y'all know the Fab Five and if you don't do 28 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 4: your homework excellent documentary on ESPN produced by Jalen Rose 29 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 4: that tells the story of a group of kids who 30 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 4: were from the street who did something special. You know 31 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 4: what I mean, And by special, I mean change the 32 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:03,639 Speaker 4: way we see college basketball unbeknownst to them. I believe 33 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 4: in the process. But they were able as freshman's sophomores 34 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 4: make it to the championship game a lot of I 35 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 4: think a lot of rules were made and rules were 36 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 4: broken to introduce them as they were in terms of 37 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 4: the Fab Five. But Jalen Rose is just much more 38 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:24,119 Speaker 4: than the Fab five, right he is. He's a good guy. 39 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 4: He's a friend, as I mentioned earlier, and I'm I 40 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:30,799 Speaker 4: like telling the story of people that I know, but 41 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 4: actually knowing more about them. So when I interviewed him 42 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 4: in particular, it was to find out what I didn't know, 43 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 4: and his story is layered and deep. I didn't know 44 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:42,079 Speaker 4: his father was a number one draft pick. I didn't 45 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 4: know he didn't know his dad. I didn't know that 46 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 4: there were letters or a letter written from his father 47 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 4: that really perhaps affected him while playing in a very 48 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 4: important game. I share all this with you all to 49 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,919 Speaker 4: tell you that this story is special and Jaylen took 50 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 4: some time to really get naked for us, and I 51 00:02:58,360 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 4: appreciate you. 52 00:02:59,160 --> 00:02:59,639 Speaker 3: My friend. 53 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 4: Well pick it up where he starts talking about you 54 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 4: know what made you? I love to ask that question 55 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 4: because we have energetic imprints of our family members on 56 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:11,360 Speaker 4: us as we become adults, and he has a very 57 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 4: special story. Jalen Rose gets naked. I hope you all enjoy. 58 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 5: It and carry Chepian and Carrie Chevy. 59 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:23,359 Speaker 1: While I'm in this single parent situation, the youngest of four, 60 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 1: I never met my biological father, who was the number 61 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:30,119 Speaker 1: one pick in the nineteen sixty seven NBA draft. I 62 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: always felt like I was more special than everybody else. 63 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: I used to say that when I was young, I 64 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: had a rational confidence, like people see me talk trash 65 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 1: when I got to college. That didn't just start then, 66 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: you know that I've been doing that my entire life. 67 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 1: It was almost a way of survival sometimes in a 68 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: lot of ways. And so even though we were poor, 69 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: the entire block, the entire neighborhood, the entire community was 70 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: as well. So I didn't necessarily feel like it because 71 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: you get teased about anything anyway, Bumps on your face, 72 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: being skinny, having patches in your pants holes and your shoes. 73 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 1: People gonna tease you anyway, you know, and then you 74 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 1: realize sometimes people are gonna teach you that can also 75 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:22,159 Speaker 1: beat you in the fight. So you got to you 76 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:26,840 Speaker 1: gotta accept it and live to see another day. And 77 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: so for me, it was about survival. It was about 78 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,920 Speaker 1: having a goal of trying to take my family out 79 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: of the neighborhood. I never liked having kerosene heaters in 80 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:44,040 Speaker 1: the house. There were certain some there were certain winners 81 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: where we didn't have heat, and I boil water to 82 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: wash up that type of thing. But it didn't feel 83 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: abnormal because we weren't the only family on the block 84 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: that was required to do that. 85 00:04:57,800 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 2: But I definitely was alway. 86 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: It felt like I was driven to do something special, 87 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: but it takes a long time to get there. 88 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 4: If you didn't have to boil water growing up, then 89 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 4: you're not a real one and you can't be on 90 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 4: a podcast. 91 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 2: Okay, no doubt, no doubt. A toast to that. 92 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 4: She was like you, if you didn't have to do water, 93 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 4: you too, fancy me? 94 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 2: Mm hmm correct. 95 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 4: What I have noticed about you is your incredible and 96 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 4: I don't know if it is a personality that you've 97 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 4: learned growing up, but your incredible way of connecting people. 98 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 4: As long as I've known you, you've always been a connector. 99 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 4: You've always been easy. And some people might say, oh, 100 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 4: he Politiican, you know that's that word we use, right, 101 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 4: But why not why not just try to get along? 102 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 4: Why not try to make people come together? Why not 103 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 4: be pleasant when the situation isn't pleasant? Where does that 104 00:05:58,279 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 4: come from? 105 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: It came from being a half not and always feeling 106 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: and appreciating the people that I saw gift back to 107 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: me in their own way. 108 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 2: And it wasn't only always about money. So like my grandfather, 109 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 2: Paramour Hicks Senior, Bainbridge, Georgia, we used to go down 110 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 2: there in the summer. He had a grocery store, so 111 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 2: he had his house, but he turned the you know, 112 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 2: the garage into a like a grocery store, a penny 113 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 2: candy store. And he was always like ammaculate dressed. He 114 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 2: always had nice hats. He used to smoke cigarettes, and 115 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 2: he used to smoke cools, and he used to always 116 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:45,799 Speaker 2: tell me, don't smoke cool, be cool. 117 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: And then he started calling me long boy when I 118 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 1: was young, because obviously I was tall or whatever. So 119 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: that's what my grandparents and my mother and uncles called 120 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 1: me and my family since I was young and like 121 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: like just growing, continuing to like see role models in 122 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: my life. His son, Paramour Hicks Junior, was like the 123 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: Muhammad Ali of my family. He worked at the plant 124 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: forty plus hours a week. I'm gonna get this double time. 125 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: I'm gonna work Saturdays. But he also was a great artist. 126 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 1: He is the president of the bowling league, is the 127 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: president of the community block club. Like he was that 128 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: person drive past the house and check on everybody and 129 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: bring food at night. 130 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 2: And so I had those people in my life. 131 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: I had an older brother, I had two older I 132 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: have two older brothers and so I I have a 133 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 1: really great family dynamic, had a great high school coach, 134 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: and Perry Washson was like a father figure to. 135 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 2: Me and Ed Martin. 136 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: You know, during the fab five years, his name took 137 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: a lot of slander, but for those that don't know, 138 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: like the money that he ended up getting was because 139 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 1: he worked at the plant and he got an eye 140 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 1: injury and now was his settlement money. And he was 141 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 1: basically somebody that was just trying to influence young people 142 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: in the community ten years before I ever got to Southwestern. 143 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: So like seeing other people give and I don't talk 144 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: about it a lot publicly, but I have a tattoo 145 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: to say God's favor. 146 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 2: Like, my faith is really strong. 147 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: And we joke as black people that our faith had 148 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 1: better been strong after four fifty years of slavery and 149 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: all the hymns and all the stuff we've gone through, Right, 150 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: but my faith is really strong. So I think all 151 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 1: of those things kind of carried me to the point 152 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: where if I had something to give back, I was 153 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: willing to do it. And it just as I started 154 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 1: to be able to give back more, I tried to 155 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 1: do it more responsibly, but also try to do it 156 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: where it could be meaningful. 157 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 4: You mentioned, you mentioned the male figure, strong male figures 158 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 4: in your life, but you all so said your father 159 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 4: wasn't there and you never you never met him. Is 160 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:04,679 Speaker 4: that as of late have you met your father? 161 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 1: So, Jimmy Walker died in the late two thousands, I 162 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: believe it was two thousand and seven, and I went 163 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 1: to his funeral with Dave Bean. They were back courtinates 164 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 1: with the Pistons, and I was young. I did my intel. 165 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, the reason why he ain't around 166 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: is because I as a basketball card. I'm like, you know, 167 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:33,080 Speaker 1: he got traded in December, but I was born in January. 168 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: So in my mind as a kid, I validated it. 169 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:42,560 Speaker 1: So I didn't really even ask my mother about my 170 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 1: father or about our circumstances or surroundings. I saw what 171 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:48,839 Speaker 1: it was. He just wasn't there, so I wasn't gonna 172 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 1: burden her with it. I was like, I'm gonna be 173 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: what he was supposed to be mine. So he wore 174 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: number twenty four in high school. I wore number forty 175 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: two out of spite. I was like, he gonna know 176 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 1: my name, and I'm gonna make a name for myself 177 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: and for my family, and so I did use that 178 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 1: as motivation, definitely coming from a single parent situation, never 179 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 1: knowing my father, knowing that he also was a professional 180 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: athlete that allegedly had thirteen kids by eleven women. 181 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 3: Wow, Wow, you know what that's called? 182 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 4: Right? When you don't talk about something that's blatantly missing 183 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 4: in your life, do you know? My therapist told me 184 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 4: that's called fragmentation. My father wasn't around and we never 185 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 4: talked about it, and I thought that was dope. 186 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 3: Like I never brought it up until it was time 187 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 3: for me to bring it up because other kids bring 188 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,199 Speaker 3: it up. So you talk about it, but. 189 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 4: It causes something that I wasn't familiar with. It's called fragmentation, 190 00:10:56,040 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 4: which sometimes forces us to to question our realities because 191 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 4: we don't know what's right and what's wrong or what's 192 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 4: real or is that real or is that really happening? 193 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 4: And I've seen that play out in my life. I'm like, 194 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 4: what I see is different from what everybody else sees. 195 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:14,959 Speaker 4: There's this fragmentation there because no one's talking about it. 196 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 4: It's the elephant in the room. 197 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 3: Forty two. 198 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 4: He gonna know me, but it's never talked about. How 199 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 4: do you see and you may not feel like it's fragmentation, 200 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:30,680 Speaker 4: but how do you see that disconnect playing out when 201 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 4: you become this superstar player on the first of all, 202 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 4: obviously collegiate level, that's when the world knew you. But 203 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:41,959 Speaker 4: you had this level of fame prior to you get 204 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 4: to the collegiate level. And it's crazy. Do you see 205 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 4: it playing out your father not being there now that 206 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 4: you look back on it, because hindsight is always twenty 207 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 4: twenty cliche. 208 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 2: Yes, and that fragmentation played out via jealousy. 209 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: And I always looked at Grant Hill is somebody that 210 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 1: had the life that I wanted, and like many when 211 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: the Cosby Show happened or the Jeffersons happened, like to 212 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 1: see families together that were well dressed, that were well spoken, 213 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:21,680 Speaker 1: that were like entrepreneurs, like that was rare. 214 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:23,439 Speaker 2: So I looked up to people like. 215 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 1: Don Cornelius on Soul Train, and I knew that he 216 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:29,319 Speaker 1: made sure that they never got the answer wrong because 217 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 1: he never wanted to make us look bad, and he 218 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 1: was putting on all of the artists and allowing us 219 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,840 Speaker 1: to express ourselves. You know, like there's a many years 220 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 1: that we've been you know, suppressed, and so that is 221 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: a level of fragmentation. You're right, and out of sight, 222 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: out of mind for me allowed me to stay focused 223 00:12:56,280 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: on myself and not try to take on a lot 224 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: of pain or anger or disappointment of a relationship that 225 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:10,439 Speaker 1: I wasn't old enough to nurture what might be the 226 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 1: results of it. So I got a letter from him 227 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 1: while I was in college, and he wrote it because 228 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 1: Mitch Album was doing the Fab five book and he 229 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:25,680 Speaker 1: was never seeking to like, you know, get in my 230 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 1: shadow or nothing like that. He had his own career. 231 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 1: He's a better player than me. He had was like 232 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: forty in college, like he was a beast, and so 233 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:37,560 Speaker 1: he wanted me to know like he's seeking me out, 234 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: not the other way around. The problem carry and this 235 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: is something that I had to unpack as I got 236 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:48,680 Speaker 1: older that I never really talk about is I got 237 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:50,559 Speaker 1: that letter during the Final four. 238 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:54,719 Speaker 2: And I was so not ready for that. 239 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 3: No, that wasn't the time. 240 00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:58,960 Speaker 2: That wasn't ready for that. 241 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 4: But the set the scene, set the scene for the 242 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,680 Speaker 4: folks who may not know the legacy of the Fab 243 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 4: five in the Final four and when. 244 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 1: You get this, so like one of the beautiful things 245 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:18,199 Speaker 1: about the Fab five brotherhood. Shout the Seaweb, Juwan Ray 246 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 1: and Jimmy, and shout to the Wolverines. Finally beat Ohio State. 247 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 1: We're gonna act like we do this. 248 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 3: That's a deal. That's congratulations. 249 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 2: I subs it to that being Buck Eye. Y'all know 250 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 2: how we do it. You know what I mean. 251 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: Shout to my brother Jim Jackson, so many cats. I 252 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 1: got love for Ohio State, y'all know what it is. 253 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 1: And so, being a member of the Fab Five, Mitch Album, 254 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 1: who covered the team, ultimately wrote a best selling book 255 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: about our group, and he had the access because obviously 256 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 1: he's working in the media, and so while he was 257 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: writing that book, he was clearly reaching out to certain 258 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 1: people to talk to about it, and Jimmy Walker was 259 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 1: one of the people he reached out to. Jimmy Jimmy 260 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 1: didn't necessarily want to do it, but Jimmy wrote me 261 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: a letter that said that he did it, and da 262 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 1: da da. But anyway, Mitch got the letter and he 263 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 1: gave it to me the night before the game. And 264 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 1: by no means is he the reason why we ain't 265 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 1: win the championship. 266 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 3: I'm blaming him. I'm making a. 267 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 1: Connect by no means, but I can't front like the 268 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 1: Carolina game, people look at seaway of time out like 269 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 1: that's my brother and I'm a teammate. And if you 270 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 1: ever played team sports or like really being invested in 271 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 1: something you really love the people that you're rocking with, everybody, 272 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: when you lose, go look at what they could have 273 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 1: did better, including me. And I feel like that was 274 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 1: the worst game I played of the year, not even close. 275 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 1: Like this is not the rest of the world saying it, 276 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: this is me saying it. And as I got older, 277 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 1: I was like, wait a minute, I'm still walking around 278 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 1: with the same letter seven years ago that I got 279 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 1: as a college kid that I wasn't ready to open then. 280 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 1: So clearly that has some mental trauma. Yeah, because I 281 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 1: didn't open it until seven years later. I carried around 282 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 1: like lanus in a in a blanket, like just with 283 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: me everywhere I went, just kept it Kevin in the backpack, 284 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: Kevin and the stuff, kept it with me, with me, 285 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 1: with me, with me. 286 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 2: Never opened it. 287 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: I ain't open it until I was in the league 288 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: and I was like, you know what I'm about to 289 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: I'm about to read this. It was the last dance 290 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 1: year that was the year I actually I actually read 291 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 1: it too, and in the letter, he just let me 292 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 1: know that he wasn't trying to ride my cotel or 293 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 1: nothing like that, that he was proud of me. It 294 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 1: was all positive, and we kept some dialogue and our 295 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: I told him I was gonna try to come see him. 296 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 2: I never tried to. 297 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 1: I wasn't able to go see him, and ultimately he 298 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 1: ended up passing, but I did get a chance to 299 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 1: tell him I love him. I'm grateful for him that. 300 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 1: You know, he gave me the basketball jeans, and him 301 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 1: not being around gave me the motivation that gave me 302 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 1: the courage. 303 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 3: Do you know how much pain I hear in that statement. 304 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure it exists. 305 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 1: So people see me now, right, they like, he got 306 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:34,160 Speaker 1: nears now, yeah, he's for fars. 307 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 2: I got as soon as I got d. 308 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 3: You look good, You look good, You look good. 309 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 2: You know he grew in his hair out. 310 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 1: Like I look back at pictures of me when I 311 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 1: was in college, ball head, bumpy face, bad. 312 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:54,159 Speaker 2: Team Jalen like he was hazardous to my health? 313 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 3: What do you mean? Like, why was that Jalen hazardous 314 00:17:59,640 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 3: to you? 315 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:05,199 Speaker 2: Because he had no filter and he was. 316 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:11,159 Speaker 1: He was willing to be reckless, and he was also 317 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 1: willing to not only do that for himself, but definitely 318 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:17,639 Speaker 1: willing to do it for the people that he loved. 319 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 1: Like that's that, That's just that, that was just the 320 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:28,679 Speaker 1: nature of a young, angry person that I was. And 321 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:31,200 Speaker 1: I think back to this interview that we had when 322 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:32,880 Speaker 1: we was about to play Duke and we was all 323 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:37,439 Speaker 1: sitting there and I was like, I don't have a 324 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 1: fresh cut, Like I'm broke, Like I don't even want 325 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 1: to do this right now. 326 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 3: I don't even that's not even what you should have 327 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 3: been worried about. 328 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:49,680 Speaker 1: Right Like to me, I was like, I don't even 329 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 1: feel like doing this right now. And it was the 330 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 1: one when we like and you hear it and I said, 331 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:00,399 Speaker 1: I said, oh what up, Detroit can't get a fresh 332 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:02,400 Speaker 1: cut every day, you know what I mean? 333 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 2: Like that was the insecurity. 334 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 1: I was broke, couldn't get a fresh cut, and like, 335 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 1: I'm on national I'm on the big stage. So yes, 336 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: I look at my younger self and I do see 337 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:26,640 Speaker 1: his anger. I do see his pain and frustration with family, 338 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 1: with society and all of that. And so I'm so 339 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: very fortunate that I've been able to mature and overcome 340 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:39,439 Speaker 1: a lot of that anger and that hostility that I 341 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 1: had in my head, in. 342 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 4: My heart, and also the way that the men in 343 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:46,919 Speaker 4: your life that were in your life poured back into you. 344 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:50,400 Speaker 4: You know, yes, the way in which how you describe 345 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,919 Speaker 4: your grandfather and how people take care of you and 346 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,399 Speaker 4: showed you things that you remember. I see that playing 347 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,959 Speaker 4: out because I met Jalen, met him, knew of him 348 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 4: way before, but met him, uh, when he was an adult. 349 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 4: You do what you I don't know if you remember this. 350 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 4: I I often told you. Do you remember the time 351 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 4: I met you at the bar with my homegirl and 352 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:12,679 Speaker 4: he was trying to holler at her. 353 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 3: Remember that. 354 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 4: Before I Before I got he said, here's the scene. 355 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 4: I'm out with my homegirl in La. We're in downtown, 356 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 4: I think, And maybe you were already working at ESPN, 357 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 4: but you weren't, you know, Jalen Rose NBA analysts at ESPN, 358 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 4: but she was an analyst. And my homegirl comes in. 359 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:36,439 Speaker 4: She was bad, like you're bad broad and I remember, okay, 360 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 4: battye probably like six one light skin mix, you know, 361 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 4: yo m O, and and we all sitting there and 362 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:46,159 Speaker 4: I was working at the Tennis channel at the time 363 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 4: when we were talking, and you was at my girl 364 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 4: like ad her, but real respectful, not inappropriate. 365 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:53,920 Speaker 3: I don't have a disrespectful story. And I was like, yeah, no, 366 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 3: we're going tennis channel. I bet you I'll probably work 367 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 3: at ESPN sooner. He's like, good for you. 368 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 4: Like kind of like, okay, how about Broad's I'd me 369 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 4: telling me that's what it's gonna work, and and and 370 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 4: and then and then you and my friend exchanged numbers. 371 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 4: I don't know whatever happened. And she wasn't like a 372 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:11,199 Speaker 4: close friend. She was just some somebody was hanging out 373 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,719 Speaker 4: with for a couple of years. But I exchanged numbers 374 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:16,360 Speaker 4: and y'all hung out, and he. 375 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:18,439 Speaker 3: Was real smooth with it. He was just like, let 376 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 3: me call you, and. 377 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:25,920 Speaker 4: She was trying to and she was trying to act 378 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:27,680 Speaker 4: like she wasn't excited, but she was excited. She went 379 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 4: to the bathroom, she was excited to talk to you. 380 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:33,159 Speaker 4: She's like, oh my god. And I thought it was 381 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 4: I thought it was cute. I felt a way. I 382 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,239 Speaker 4: felt away because you ignored me. But I was like, 383 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 4: my ego, my ego as big as hell. I was 384 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,639 Speaker 4: like I'm mad too, ship. I know I ain't light 385 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 4: skinned with good hair, but still I'm cute, and it 386 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:53,160 Speaker 4: was don't try to smooth it out now and then, 387 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 4: which was great because to me, I think God works 388 00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 4: in mysterious ways. Because I didn't get to experience you 389 00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:01,160 Speaker 4: like that. I'm pretty sure you do even know who 390 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 4: that is. I don't remember her name either at the time. 391 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,640 Speaker 4: But the reality is is that I got to meet 392 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 4: you in a real, full experience way when I worked 393 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 4: with you, and there wasn't none of this awkwardness like, oh, well, 394 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 4: im out another day, you know, so it all works. 395 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,879 Speaker 4: It worked out perfectly. But I do remember thinking, what 396 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 4: a nice man, because you know, you meet you live 397 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 4: in LA you meet athletes all the time, and then 398 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,160 Speaker 4: it's not always the best story. You meet famous people 399 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 4: all the time, it's not always the best story. But 400 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 4: I remember you being like good for you try it 401 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 4: like encouraging. That's why I said, you always have the 402 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:33,120 Speaker 4: ability to be kind no matter what. You should always 403 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 4: know your surroundings and your circumstances. So for that I 404 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 4: appreciate you. Whether people want to believe like cause I 405 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 4: do know that when we're really kind, people don't want. 406 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:45,439 Speaker 3: To believe it. 407 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 4: We always want to take the worst. We think there's 408 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 4: some agenda behind people being kind, and that's just not 409 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 4: the case. 410 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:52,160 Speaker 3: So then here you go. 411 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 4: You are coming off of I think arguably, if not 412 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 4: the most defining moment in college sports. What you all 413 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 4: did with the Fab five really redefined what college athletics 414 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:14,119 Speaker 4: look like for basketball players, for black men specific leagues, 415 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 4: very very similarly to what Allen Iverson did for when 416 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:23,679 Speaker 4: he decided to change the face of the game. People 417 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,959 Speaker 4: develop when you don't live up to that level of 418 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 4: excellence or people say you haven't lived up to that 419 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 4: level of excellence, i e. For you not winning the 420 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 4: national championship. People develop habits. They either have like they 421 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 4: try to medicate their way through the disappointment, whether that 422 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:45,680 Speaker 4: be alcohol and drinking, or people lie and create different realities. 423 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:50,439 Speaker 4: How did you cope with not winning? Did you have 424 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 4: to medicate? I mean, yes, you went to the league, 425 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,919 Speaker 4: But did you have to medicate? Did you have to 426 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,399 Speaker 4: find a way to cope with what wasn't No matter 427 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,360 Speaker 4: how popular you guys were, at the end of the day, 428 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 4: you know, everybody want to win it all. We're competitors 429 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 4: at all correct. 430 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:09,200 Speaker 1: So, as I mentioned, I'm from the northwest side of Detroit. 431 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 1: I was born in seventy three, raised in the eighties 432 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:16,640 Speaker 1: during the Reagan crack era. Ye, and a lot of cities, 433 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:21,920 Speaker 1: clearly the entire nation and urban communities were affected, and 434 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:26,120 Speaker 1: Detroit was hit hard, if not just as hard. 435 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 2: And so I've been hardened by my upbringing. 436 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 1: And as I'm older now, man, I look back at 437 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 1: it and it just it's just like a great foundation 438 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:43,960 Speaker 1: that I could keep building on and building on and 439 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 1: building on, and it's like, well, it's like ask for 440 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 1: the Simpson. You build it up and build it. 441 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 6: Up, and then we silid exact So like that, that's 442 00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 6: that's kind of how I approach, like the journey and 443 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,120 Speaker 6: the things that I've overcome that were. 444 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 1: Failures, because a lot of times what you may see 445 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:15,719 Speaker 1: is a success, accomplishing a goal, accomplishing a dream. Everybody 446 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: else can still try to act like, oh, it ain't 447 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 1: all that y'all. 448 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,919 Speaker 2: Won a championship, but you only had five points. Oh 449 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 2: y'all had a six game win streak, but you ain't 450 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:26,919 Speaker 2: play right. 451 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 1: So people can always minimize what you do, no matter 452 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,680 Speaker 1: what it is. Hey to Bron you got fold championships, 453 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 1: but hey, you had to go to three different teams, like. 454 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 2: It can always make right. 455 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: So when I was in high school going to Southwestern, 456 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 1: our school had lost the state championship eight years in 457 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 1: a row before I got there. Okay, I played jv 458 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,640 Speaker 1: my freshman year and I played varsity my sophomore year. 459 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,679 Speaker 1: My sophomore year, we want to PSL. We won the 460 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:04,400 Speaker 1: city and we lost the state championship for the ninth 461 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 1: consecutive time. 462 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,640 Speaker 2: It was like, Jerry West, are your Lakers? 463 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 1: It's crazy, right, And my junior year, going into that season, 464 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,440 Speaker 1: there was a writer that still rights in Detroit. 465 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 2: Shout out to Mick mccab I'll say your name good, 466 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:20,880 Speaker 2: Mick mccab. 467 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:23,879 Speaker 1: You know fel good. I love you, you know what 468 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 1: I'm saying. He always wrote bad about our program. He 469 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,119 Speaker 1: always you know, whatever, whatever, whatever. And I know he 470 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,200 Speaker 1: didn't know me, you know what I'm saying. And I 471 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 1: saw that he was only writing that about me because 472 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 1: of how well we was doing. 473 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,640 Speaker 2: It bugged me. 474 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:47,160 Speaker 1: Out, like wait a minute, Like we got the number 475 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,360 Speaker 1: one team in the city, the state, in the country, 476 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 1: and and I'm like hold on, like this, can't you 477 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:58,200 Speaker 1: lif and so that started to teach me about it. 478 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,160 Speaker 4: We learn that no matter what you do, they will 479 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,640 Speaker 4: still find something correct. 480 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 2: People go, people can criticize whatever you do. 481 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 1: Like and so when I realized that, I was like, 482 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,120 Speaker 1: I'm gonna do my best to be my best, make 483 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:17,960 Speaker 1: all of the sacrifices I can make. 484 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 2: And yeah, losing stinks. It hurts. When we lost the duke, 485 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 2: Yeah stunk. It hurt. 486 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 1: We cried, But I did say I looked up to 487 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:28,119 Speaker 1: Vegas and they just beat them the. 488 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 2: Year before, like they was better than us. Yeah. 489 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:32,679 Speaker 1: Right, At some point you got to look in the 490 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 1: mirror and do you see yourself or your representatives? 491 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 4: Right, So you learned in high school not to medicate 492 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 4: when people criticize or you in a different way, meaning 493 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:45,639 Speaker 4: like you're like, all right, look, no matter what, Like 494 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:47,119 Speaker 4: I got to look at this big picture. 495 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:52,919 Speaker 1: Well, the word medicating started way before the fab fives. Right, 496 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: I'm the product of my environment. And I might have 497 00:27:56,400 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 1: been exposed two joints in forty ounces as a teenager. 498 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,400 Speaker 1: Sure that might have been something I might have had 499 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 1: somebody cop for me as an underage. 500 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 4: By the way, that it's legal, it's fine, it's legal 501 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:09,920 Speaker 4: now right. 502 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 1: That may have happened before and around fifteen years of age. 503 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 2: That might have happened. Sure, and it wasn't because I 504 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 2: won a loss a basketball game. 505 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,959 Speaker 3: But what I'm saying is, did you use it to cope? 506 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 2: Yes? Okay, it's it's it's. 507 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 1: One of the things I try to encourage adults to 508 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 1: do is to try to allow people to keep their innocence, 509 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 1: young people to keep their innocence as long as possible. 510 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:42,720 Speaker 2: Like, I know, the. 511 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 1: Internet exists, television exists, sex, drugs, exposure to everything, music 512 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: or whatever. But the more you could keep their minds 513 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: and their hearts like focus on their goals and dreams 514 00:28:55,720 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 1: and pure and innocent and like happy about the journey 515 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 1: and not hardened by the journey, you give them. 516 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 2: A chance to like shape who they are. Yeah, I 517 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 2: ain't get that chance. 518 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know I was one of those kids, like 519 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 1: I might have been a youngster, like, hey, you about 520 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 1: to get some of this cold forty five? 521 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 2: Put you to sleep? You know what I'm saying. 522 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 3: You know, my mom my. 523 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 4: Mom would be like, I'd be like, mom, let me. 524 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 4: My mom would be mad at me if I made 525 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 4: her drink wrong. And then if I made it wrong. 526 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 3: She make me have it. She'd be like sit that. 527 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 4: I'm like, I don't want it, but I was like, 528 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 4: but maybe yeah. 529 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 1: And by the way, for those that don't know, when 530 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,560 Speaker 1: I say cold forty five, that's Billy d You know. 531 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying. 532 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 1: He was a legendary pitchman, hand so well spoken guy. 533 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 4: Hey, everybody, don't go anywhere. You know what we gotta do. 534 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 4: We gotta pay the bills, will be back. And just 535 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 4: a moment with Jalen Rose on Naked. 536 00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 5: Every Champion and every Champions to be a Champion of 537 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 5: Champion and Carrie Sheppion and Carrie chabyyaa Champion and Carrie 538 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 5: Sheppion and Carrie Sheby Sports. 539 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 2: And Entertainment k Naked Word, Harry. 540 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 5: Champion and Carrie Chappion is going to be a Champion 541 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 5: a Champion and Carrie Chappie and the Girl a Champion 542 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 5: and Carrie Sheppion and Carried Sheppy Entertainment Cat Naked Word. 543 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 4: Hey, everybody, thank you for hanging in there. I gotta 544 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 4: pay these bills. As I often say every single week, 545 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 4: I'm glad you stayed because Jalen tells a very beautiful 546 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 4: story and I think this will help you understand who 547 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 4: he is and how he moves. 548 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 3: Jalen, what's up the beauty of your story? 549 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 4: As we talk about what what didn't happen, is what 550 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 4: you did make happen? Like you know, I was there. 551 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,960 Speaker 4: I'm old enough to remember when you produced a beautiful 552 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 4: Fab five doc. And I'm old enough to remember that 553 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 4: you were able to tell your own story and create 554 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,480 Speaker 4: your own narrative in spite of what people may have said. 555 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 4: You know what I mean Ooz, you were able to 556 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 4: tell your own story. I think that's the most important 557 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 4: thing for any human being, it's to create their own narrative, 558 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 4: because people will tell you a story, not the way 559 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 4: in which you wanted to be told. And I remember thinking, 560 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:17,360 Speaker 4: what a wonderful, beautiful accomplishment and for someone who lived 561 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 4: through the Fab five era and have my Michigan shirt 562 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 4: from Target. I used to be like, y'all made y'all 563 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 4: made paraphernalia popular. My mom's like, why you want a Michigan. 564 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 4: C's like, cause I'm gonna go to the She's like, no. 565 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 3: You not. I was like, that won't be happening, but okay. 566 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 4: But the point of the matter is that it was cool, 567 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:44,840 Speaker 4: it was popular, it was you know, I I was 568 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 4: proud of you, you know, as a colleague, but also 569 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 4: as somebody who came full circle. 570 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 3: The story has. 571 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 4: Always been and you always your line is always the same, 572 00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 4: Your story is always the same. It's always been like 573 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,240 Speaker 4: see Web is never recovered. He's fine, We're all good, 574 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:03,640 Speaker 4: We're all friends. Now when I go back to being 575 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 4: that politician and taking care of everybody, do you have 576 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 4: the rapport with him that and the rest of the 577 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 4: crew that you wish you you wish you should have had, 578 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 4: or is has that ship sailed? 579 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 2: That's a terrific question. 580 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 1: I'm glad you asked that in the context of the 581 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 1: Fab five doc. And that was still a time I 582 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 1: remember I had the like legendary debate with Skip and 583 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 1: I talked about his high school status and whatnot. Like 584 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 1: that was at a time where athletes were required to 585 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: only either stick the sports or only talk about the 586 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 1: sport that they played. So I just remember, like from 587 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 1: two thousand and seven to twenty twelve, like I was 588 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:54,120 Speaker 1: just working at best down from two thousand and two 589 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,720 Speaker 1: to two thousand and seven doing MTV Movie Awards, Top 590 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 1: rain Box and NFL network sidelined all of a sudden, 591 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 1: I'm here, and it's like, hold on, y'all think and 592 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:09,120 Speaker 1: this is like the public and like just you know, 593 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,520 Speaker 1: people that see you as a former athlete, like oh 594 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 1: he could he talking about football, talking about baseball, talking 595 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 1: about boxing. 596 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 2: You can do it all right, So let me get 597 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:22,600 Speaker 2: this right. 598 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 1: So you didn't play anything about everything, but don't put 599 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 1: me in a box. And so executive producing that documentary 600 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 1: was also important to me because as an athlete having 601 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 1: his own production company, I just did a play called 602 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,480 Speaker 1: The Greatest Love Story Ever Told, where the story of 603 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 1: Mary and Joseph. And it was around the time when 604 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 1: Tyler Perry started his Chilling Circuit stage plays, and so 605 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:58,800 Speaker 1: I was taking pride in doing a lot of things 606 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:05,000 Speaker 1: that athletes are doing now that seemed normal, not clearly 607 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,720 Speaker 1: that I was the first. I mean Shaq was doing movies, 608 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,280 Speaker 1: I mean Fred Hammer Williamson in the sixties and Jim. 609 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:12,240 Speaker 2: Brown was doing the movies. 610 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 1: Like, by no means am I the first, But like 611 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:22,720 Speaker 1: if doing that documentary meant that, So hiring Aaron Cohen, 612 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:24,880 Speaker 1: who now is going on to do. 613 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:26,840 Speaker 2: Multiple projects with ESPN. 614 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,359 Speaker 1: Jason Air first project he did was Fab five doc, 615 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 1: and he just crushed it with. 616 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 2: The last dance. Now he's turning down work. 617 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 1: So I turned around and say them like, so I 618 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:45,200 Speaker 1: ain't got another project, you know what I mean? And 619 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,879 Speaker 1: to answer your Fab five part of it, I had 620 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:53,560 Speaker 1: two endings. The ending that I wanted was gonna have 621 00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:57,640 Speaker 1: it mafioso, who's gonna be suited and booted, hats on 622 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:05,760 Speaker 1: scarves on big ta my big chairs, lobster, double triple 623 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 1: bottles of champagne all on the table like we won 624 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:14,760 Speaker 1: the game of life. That's what I'm wanted the ending 625 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 1: to be. If we weren't gonna get a current interview 626 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 1: from Cee, well then it ended up being what it 627 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 1: ended up being. And so in theory over that ten 628 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,160 Speaker 1: year period, I mean, we can't hide the fact that 629 00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 1: y'all ain't seeing us in the front row at the 630 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,120 Speaker 1: Piston game. You know what I mean, y'all ain't seeing 631 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,080 Speaker 1: us in the front row at the Michigan game in 632 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 1: Jauan coaching, right, So I can't act like it's where 633 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 1: I thought it would end up currently. But what I 634 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,480 Speaker 1: will say, it's a lot better than it used to be. 635 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:57,640 Speaker 1: And I see a time in the near future where 636 00:35:57,680 --> 00:35:59,640 Speaker 1: we'll get in the same place at the same time 637 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:03,040 Speaker 1: and bring bread and as brothers and talking about the 638 00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,759 Speaker 1: things we like and don't like, and hopefully we'll get 639 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:12,320 Speaker 1: past it and break another barrier, because like, we've invested 640 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,799 Speaker 1: so much in each other and the public, and so 641 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,960 Speaker 1: many people have invested so much in us. And I 642 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:21,959 Speaker 1: know what it looked like to see your favorite group 643 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,160 Speaker 1: break up. I remember epm D broke up. 644 00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 3: Yo, Oh my god, how Cas like Fuji? You know 645 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:36,240 Speaker 3: what I mean? Don't listen, listen you like how no addition? 646 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,480 Speaker 2: Oh my god, this is the fact of my life. 647 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 2: Ice Cube was leaving. 648 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:46,160 Speaker 3: N w A that changed my entire world. That that crushed. 649 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:52,759 Speaker 1: Into the world right right, So I know, I understand 650 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,839 Speaker 1: how it's important for the public and the culture who 651 00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:57,359 Speaker 1: made us. 652 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,080 Speaker 2: We didn't even want to be called Fast, We want 653 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:05,960 Speaker 2: to be called five times. That was a dumb name. 654 00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:11,799 Speaker 3: Like yeah, you guys didn't know, right. 655 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,840 Speaker 1: And so based on all of those things, like I 656 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,120 Speaker 1: was there when he got inducted into the Hall of Fame. 657 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:19,600 Speaker 1: I was happy to go support them type of thing. 658 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,040 Speaker 1: And hopefully we can be in that arbor to support 659 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:22,960 Speaker 1: Juwana and the team. 660 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:27,759 Speaker 4: So you know, it's uh, this world, what's the here's 661 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,960 Speaker 4: the here's the thing when you when you guys are 662 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:35,320 Speaker 4: because you guys are kids, kids like we don't we forget, 663 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,319 Speaker 4: especially when you when you're calling games and these these 664 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,240 Speaker 4: your kids. You don't grow up man, especially no offense, 665 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,480 Speaker 4: y'all don't grow up too much much much later in life. 666 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:47,280 Speaker 4: I'm not even talking about in your twenties, maybe your thirties, 667 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,000 Speaker 4: you know what I mean, kind of getting it in 668 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,719 Speaker 4: your forties. So you take these kids and you put 669 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,799 Speaker 4: them in these positions and they can't process a lot, 670 00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:58,279 Speaker 4: so it's hard and if you're not doing the work 671 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,720 Speaker 4: to understand what's going on. I don't know se Web, 672 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:06,200 Speaker 4: but I I feel like I see a lot in him, 673 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,480 Speaker 4: and I see a lot of disappointment and rage and 674 00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:14,040 Speaker 4: sadness and what about me? And and I deserve and 675 00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:18,600 Speaker 4: a lot of I am, you know, And that happens 676 00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,800 Speaker 4: when you feel like you have been treated unfairly in life, 677 00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:28,520 Speaker 4: which brings me back to what I have been able 678 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,360 Speaker 4: to see you do with the cars that you have 679 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:35,239 Speaker 4: been given, which is a beautiful thing and it's and 680 00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:37,319 Speaker 4: it's and it's rare as a black man to see 681 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,000 Speaker 4: you to prosper in that way, and then they get 682 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:42,879 Speaker 4: then you. Then you get the naysayers who who will 683 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,480 Speaker 4: try to say, oh, but he didn't, but he, like 684 00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,680 Speaker 4: you said earlier, they're always finding something wrong. Do you 685 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:52,799 Speaker 4: have any regrets about your professional career and how you 686 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,960 Speaker 4: handled it on and off the court, and regrets may 687 00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:58,480 Speaker 4: not be the word. Do you have any redos? You 688 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:02,800 Speaker 4: have any redos in a professional career as a basketball player, 689 00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,360 Speaker 4: not as an analyst, but as a basketball player that 690 00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:06,200 Speaker 4: you would rather do. 691 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,520 Speaker 2: Again on redos? 692 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:14,080 Speaker 1: I definitely would have won one championship in college, definitely 693 00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:15,760 Speaker 1: would have won one in the league. 694 00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:20,080 Speaker 3: But what does that do when you win a chip? 695 00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:22,240 Speaker 4: What does that do? Why would that be a redo 696 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:24,960 Speaker 4: for you? Does it solidify your legacy? Does it make 697 00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,520 Speaker 4: your words more powerful when you talk on TV? 698 00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:28,160 Speaker 2: What? 699 00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:31,759 Speaker 1: No and no and no no no. I'm glad. I'm 700 00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:35,280 Speaker 1: glad you deciphered that. And I have an example for that. Okay, 701 00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,280 Speaker 1: and his name is Scottie Pippen. 702 00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,720 Speaker 4: You ain't lying, and I want Scotty, if you're listening, 703 00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:41,520 Speaker 4: stop talking. 704 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:42,360 Speaker 3: Go ahead. 705 00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,920 Speaker 1: As much as we talk about winning at all costs 706 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:49,160 Speaker 1: you right, And how it seems to be the thing 707 00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:52,319 Speaker 1: that's gonna make us the most happy. And I know 708 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,800 Speaker 1: some of that's out of his control, because when people 709 00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:58,600 Speaker 1: rapping about you in songs, and they ain't necessarily rapping 710 00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,000 Speaker 1: about you, but they rapping about some to carry your name, like, 711 00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:01,960 Speaker 1: you can't control that. 712 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:07,360 Speaker 2: But either way, he reminds me that. 713 00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:14,359 Speaker 1: Just winning championships doesn't necessarily make you happy. And I'm 714 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:19,319 Speaker 1: glad you asked the question that you asked, because in theory, no, 715 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:25,239 Speaker 1: winning those championships does not validate me more to myself. 716 00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:30,399 Speaker 1: It probably validates more me more to some people who're 717 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:34,120 Speaker 1: gonna shallow look at me shallow like a job anyway, 718 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:40,719 Speaker 1: and put me in that box. But it's just a 719 00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:43,759 Speaker 1: sense of being able to see your hard work in 720 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,160 Speaker 1: the journey that you've accomplished to get a chance to 721 00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,040 Speaker 1: compete against the best and the best, to have that 722 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:55,839 Speaker 1: crown and achievement. It's more for that reason than it 723 00:40:56,000 --> 00:41:00,640 Speaker 1: is for people to pat me on the back, because 724 00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:02,480 Speaker 1: all people that turn around to do and say all 725 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,120 Speaker 1: you want is one like you. 726 00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:11,520 Speaker 3: Re got you only got one. You're like, damn, that's 727 00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:13,680 Speaker 3: one more than you, that's one more than you. 728 00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:21,759 Speaker 4: Dog, Yeah, you are now working at ESPN and you 729 00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:24,439 Speaker 4: have been able to take yourself. I remember you even 730 00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:26,920 Speaker 4: explaining this to me and telling me how the journey 731 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:28,880 Speaker 4: started for you, what you were doing and how you 732 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:30,960 Speaker 4: like you mentioned earlier, free lance and working all these 733 00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,800 Speaker 4: different places, and then you work yourself into the spot, 734 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:36,680 Speaker 4: the position where you want to be, and you find 735 00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:39,279 Speaker 4: yourself on all these different platforms and you're live in 736 00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:41,600 Speaker 4: and you get to the point where you're like the 737 00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:43,919 Speaker 4: face a countdown and you're doing all these different things. 738 00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:47,280 Speaker 4: Jalen Ninja Kobe get up, You get these big deals, 739 00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:51,719 Speaker 4: and then you find that the business is the business. 740 00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:56,720 Speaker 4: What's your overall takeaway? Because for me it was different. 741 00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:58,759 Speaker 4: I came in as a journalist and you know what 742 00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,320 Speaker 4: my story is, and I've shared that with you personally 743 00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:03,560 Speaker 4: and professionally. But you know I had to walk away 744 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,239 Speaker 4: because I had to find my worth and find where 745 00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:08,960 Speaker 4: I felt appreciated, as we all have to do in 746 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:14,040 Speaker 4: all relationships. What's your overall takeaway when you look at 747 00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:17,120 Speaker 4: from the moment you started your analyst career to where 748 00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:23,120 Speaker 4: you are now, also including the moments when everybody loves 749 00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:25,480 Speaker 4: you and you got a pilot on ABC and you 750 00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:26,120 Speaker 4: acting in it. 751 00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:26,920 Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying. 752 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:31,000 Speaker 4: Good job, by the way, but take all of that, 753 00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:33,359 Speaker 4: like all the things that you've been able to do, 754 00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:37,120 Speaker 4: and then where you are now, I see ebbs and flows, 755 00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:40,359 Speaker 4: I see highs and lows, but I see you staying consistent. 756 00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:46,439 Speaker 4: What's your biggest takeaway of this post NBA career now 757 00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:50,360 Speaker 4: working as an analyst? What are you giving that information 758 00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:51,600 Speaker 4: out right? 759 00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:55,759 Speaker 1: So my biggest takeaway, and by the way, congratulations on 760 00:42:56,480 --> 00:43:04,320 Speaker 1: everything you accomplished then and now. Like to see you, Jamail, 761 00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:09,480 Speaker 1: Michael Smith, people that I consider family, brothers and sisters. 762 00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,760 Speaker 1: You know I work with Michael numbers never live before 763 00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:17,200 Speaker 1: it became his and hers. Jamail's from Detroit like best family, 764 00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:19,920 Speaker 1: and you talked about your relationship with me as well. 765 00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:27,080 Speaker 1: I think my biggest takeaway has its thread in each 766 00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:30,760 Speaker 1: of you guys. Is woven in each of you guys situations. 767 00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:36,640 Speaker 1: It's continue to fight for my voice and what ends 768 00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:40,319 Speaker 1: up happening is there are times when I need to 769 00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:42,560 Speaker 1: go to work and do come down on a Sunday 770 00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:49,240 Speaker 1: afternoon after like understanding what just happened with Breonna Taylor 771 00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:54,479 Speaker 1: and I'm just like sweating through my shirt and we've 772 00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:59,279 Speaker 1: seen the political cycle change from a lot of more 773 00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,920 Speaker 1: of stick to sports when Colin was taking the knee too, 774 00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:07,799 Speaker 1: like when the presidential cycle kind of changed and it 775 00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:14,480 Speaker 1: became a lot more divisive. It became like politics immersed 776 00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:18,439 Speaker 1: itself so much into sports that we couldn't even act 777 00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:20,280 Speaker 1: like we were ignoring it anymore. 778 00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:23,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, right. And so. 779 00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:32,720 Speaker 1: As as somebody that my culture has named their kids 780 00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:34,279 Speaker 1: after me, and. 781 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:37,480 Speaker 4: I don't know that's I don't know. I don't know 782 00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:40,520 Speaker 4: a kid that's not named Jalen. Sorry, so I don't 783 00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:41,760 Speaker 4: know what kid that's not named Jalen. 784 00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:46,720 Speaker 1: Go ahead, Pablo Tori, And I just saw an article 785 00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:49,520 Speaker 1: that somebody sent me today, like the most popular name 786 00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:55,360 Speaker 1: in college basketball. But understanding where I came from and 787 00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:00,120 Speaker 1: starting to make a lot of my goals and dreams 788 00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:03,960 Speaker 1: come true, it never took me away from the authenticity 789 00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:09,760 Speaker 1: of who I am, and I make sure that those 790 00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:13,239 Speaker 1: don't get separated. And I don't have to tell you 791 00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:15,600 Speaker 1: that's the toughest thing to do. I'll give you a 792 00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:22,400 Speaker 1: perfect example. The Kyle Rittenhouse verdict came out. Yeah, and 793 00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:26,600 Speaker 1: I've been watching the try, saw how the judge was behaving, 794 00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:31,880 Speaker 1: saw the jokes that he was making, and I saw 795 00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:37,640 Speaker 1: like the politicism of who was backing him sure, and 796 00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:40,600 Speaker 1: the things that were being said, to the point where 797 00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:44,839 Speaker 1: they started to make sure that we know, so y'all 798 00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:47,959 Speaker 1: ain't surprised, there's a good chance that he gonna get off. 799 00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:51,600 Speaker 3: Don't be surprised, like we don't want y'all. 800 00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:57,560 Speaker 1: Be surprised, right, And so he gets off and we're 801 00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:00,759 Speaker 1: about to do a show. I think we were in 802 00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:04,759 Speaker 1: the garden or in Barclays, one of them, and I 803 00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:08,520 Speaker 1: just remember standing in I was so disappointed, and I 804 00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:12,719 Speaker 1: was glad that we were addressing the topic, and I 805 00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:16,400 Speaker 1: was just trying to recall so many different stories of 806 00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:20,319 Speaker 1: black men that have been murdered by the police. And 807 00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:23,279 Speaker 1: so as we started to talk about the Jacob Blake thing, 808 00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:28,680 Speaker 1: I misspeak and say that he was murdered by police. 809 00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:33,720 Speaker 1: Greeney corrects me, I correct myself, say he was shot 810 00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:37,880 Speaker 1: seven times. And I definitely want to apologize to his 811 00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:41,359 Speaker 1: family for misspeaking, But I do understand he was paralyzed. 812 00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:43,359 Speaker 2: I do understand that. 813 00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:47,600 Speaker 1: Because of that, Milwaukee Bucks were the first team that 814 00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:51,239 Speaker 1: eventually led to so many different teams and sports and 815 00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:55,000 Speaker 1: ultimately the NBA, not playing, and to be honest, I'm 816 00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:59,200 Speaker 1: happy that they got rewarded ultimately by winning the championship. Later, 817 00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,280 Speaker 1: I felt like that was karma that worked in their favor. 818 00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:06,520 Speaker 1: But what I noticed is there was a segment of 819 00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:14,200 Speaker 1: the population that sees me not normal NBA analysts. They 820 00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:17,279 Speaker 1: see me as the figure and the culture that I 821 00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:20,440 Speaker 1: just described. They see me as a founder of a 822 00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:24,440 Speaker 1: high school for a decade, and I have to remind 823 00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:29,440 Speaker 1: myself that they see me as red. I'm not just 824 00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:33,640 Speaker 1: here to talk about ball, so when I make a mistake, 825 00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:38,080 Speaker 1: they're going to try to reverse engineer the mistake and 826 00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:41,640 Speaker 1: act like they care about what I said about him, 827 00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:45,520 Speaker 1: But really they're just trying to make it like people 828 00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:50,680 Speaker 1: like me are spreading misinformation to create a narrative, but 829 00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:57,080 Speaker 1: ignore the facts of what happened in the case, whether 830 00:47:57,160 --> 00:48:03,279 Speaker 1: he got acquitted or not. To your question, those circumstances 831 00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:09,040 Speaker 1: continue to remind me how the work that's happening in 832 00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:13,839 Speaker 1: the community is so precious, and it inspires me to 833 00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:15,600 Speaker 1: continue to do it and do more. 834 00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:17,480 Speaker 3: And that's why you have more. 835 00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:19,520 Speaker 2: I know. 836 00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:27,040 Speaker 1: That when I speak, it's not just exititing those normal analysts. 837 00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:33,400 Speaker 2: It's like he's talking for his people and you ready 838 00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:34,080 Speaker 2: for this carrier? 839 00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:37,319 Speaker 1: Do you other thing about tearing me down with that 840 00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:41,640 Speaker 1: use certain buzzwords like dumb. 841 00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:44,640 Speaker 2: So just think about this now. 842 00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:48,680 Speaker 1: As an honor roll student in high school, I mean 843 00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:51,280 Speaker 1: the deans list in college, I graduated from the college, 844 00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:55,080 Speaker 1: I'm a founder of a school, my best selling author, 845 00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:58,480 Speaker 1: I currently write a column for The New York Post 846 00:48:58,960 --> 00:48:59,960 Speaker 1: and do a podcast. 847 00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:01,120 Speaker 2: Are the renaissance men. 848 00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:04,919 Speaker 1: So if you can try to paint me as dumb, 849 00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:11,040 Speaker 1: you then try to elevate the journey of the people 850 00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:14,880 Speaker 1: behind me, and then you can now roll that same 851 00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:17,960 Speaker 1: thing rent and repeat over to the people that look 852 00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:18,319 Speaker 1: like me. 853 00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:23,120 Speaker 2: But we're not going for that. And so that's what 854 00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:26,360 Speaker 2: I continue to learn, and I know I get. 855 00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:30,640 Speaker 1: It, like like I guess, if I guess if I 856 00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:36,439 Speaker 1: was a woman, I could say there are times, unfortunately 857 00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:40,280 Speaker 1: that I see in the industry that as they start 858 00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:44,200 Speaker 1: to get older, their bodies changed, how they're fashion changes, 859 00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:45,759 Speaker 1: Dona Lah, they may not be. 860 00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:49,680 Speaker 2: The flavor of the moment for people like me. 861 00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:58,040 Speaker 1: Wearing a gold tee and saying arrest the cops that 862 00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:02,760 Speaker 1: murdered Bereonna Taylor like that don't necessarily endear you. 863 00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:05,520 Speaker 2: In a lot of spaces. 864 00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:07,879 Speaker 3: Yeah, of course. Well I don't think. 865 00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:11,960 Speaker 4: I don't think that speaking truth to power endears you 866 00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:15,319 Speaker 4: to anybody. I think sometimes it's a necessary evil, like 867 00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:18,400 Speaker 4: washing your own clothes because I don't like to wash 868 00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:19,680 Speaker 4: wi somebody else is doing. 869 00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:22,600 Speaker 3: But it's a necessary evil. Speaking truth to. 870 00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:26,799 Speaker 4: Power doesn't endear you to anybody. Woman, man, child, boy girl. 871 00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:31,600 Speaker 4: Which is what I'm hearing you say is and this 872 00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:33,480 Speaker 4: may not be what you're saying, but what I'm hearing 873 00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:36,160 Speaker 4: is that the I need to be on this platform. 874 00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:40,160 Speaker 4: It's necessary because I'm speaking for people that don't have 875 00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:40,800 Speaker 4: a voice. 876 00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:47,240 Speaker 7: And it also also, to be honest, not many people 877 00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:51,600 Speaker 7: that have my background that you can take them to 878 00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:54,040 Speaker 7: the chapel, you can take them to the block, you 879 00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:55,200 Speaker 7: can take them to the White House. 880 00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:59,480 Speaker 2: You want to go to barbershop, you want you want 881 00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:01,160 Speaker 2: to go to the Taylor like where you want to go? 882 00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:03,799 Speaker 2: You want, you want to go to school? What you 883 00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:04,200 Speaker 2: want to do? 884 00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:09,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, And so that is the value. It's almost like 885 00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:14,319 Speaker 1: when rap started to become popular. Remember EPMD made the 886 00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:17,760 Speaker 1: song keep the Crossover, Like we was trying to keep 887 00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:23,839 Speaker 1: rap yeah from becoming mainstream because we knew what's rap 888 00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:25,799 Speaker 1: became mainstream, we was. 889 00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:27,840 Speaker 2: Gonna lose it to the almighty dollars. 890 00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:35,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, right, And so that is the that's the importance 891 00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:40,200 Speaker 1: for me is if I'm able to continue to maintain 892 00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:43,799 Speaker 1: the way I've been able to, I know I can 893 00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:50,120 Speaker 1: be that credible voice that may not always, you know, 894 00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:54,800 Speaker 1: get I guess appreciated by mainstream America. 895 00:51:55,200 --> 00:52:01,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, but I know I'm speaking, but sure for sure. 896 00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:04,879 Speaker 4: And by the way, though Jalen he says something about like, 897 00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:07,719 Speaker 4: you know, getting older and changing at different women, Like 898 00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:11,040 Speaker 4: I might hope for everybody in this business to who 899 00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:13,080 Speaker 4: does what we do is to watch that we can 900 00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:15,960 Speaker 4: watch them evolve. Like if I'm still talking about the 901 00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:17,719 Speaker 4: same that I was talking about and trying to dress 902 00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:19,399 Speaker 4: how I dress when I was on first take, I'm 903 00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:22,759 Speaker 4: an idiot. If I'm still trying to sell sex, I'm 904 00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:25,799 Speaker 4: an idiot. Like that don't work. We've seen we have 905 00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:29,280 Speaker 4: colleagues who have gone way beyond that, and they still 906 00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:30,000 Speaker 4: selling sex. 907 00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:31,400 Speaker 3: I'm talking about men and women. 908 00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:35,480 Speaker 4: If they still doing that same that same stick twenty 909 00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:38,240 Speaker 4: thirty years later, I don't care how much money it's making. You, 910 00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:40,880 Speaker 4: you're an idiot and you're really not for the cause, 911 00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:43,960 Speaker 4: You're for the fame, and so you have to realize that. 912 00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:49,280 Speaker 4: As I've watched you evolve and transition, it's a welcome transition. 913 00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:51,759 Speaker 4: It's a welcome transition, and it allows you to live 914 00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:55,040 Speaker 4: in a lot of different worlds where you are very impactful. 915 00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:58,600 Speaker 4: Everybody can't live in a different world. Like you just 916 00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:00,200 Speaker 4: talked about all the places you can be in you 917 00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:01,719 Speaker 4: can live and everyone thinks they can do that. 918 00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:02,719 Speaker 3: Everybody can't do that. 919 00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:07,200 Speaker 4: So so the goal I would hope is that I'm 920 00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:10,400 Speaker 4: not Carrie from twenty twelve when the world was introduced 921 00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:13,479 Speaker 4: to me, that I am living in a world where 922 00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:16,640 Speaker 4: I know what my purpose is and that's to help 923 00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:20,360 Speaker 4: brown girls, Like it's a brown woman to be a face. 924 00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:23,279 Speaker 4: To be unapologetic about that, I say, whether you like 925 00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:26,759 Speaker 4: it or not, but I know that the work that 926 00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:28,760 Speaker 4: I'm doing, because being the first is always the hardest. 927 00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:31,120 Speaker 4: You've been the first in a lot of situations, so 928 00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:34,160 Speaker 4: you got to take the heat. You're the you, like 929 00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:37,560 Speaker 4: maybe the only constant I think on countdown, I'm thinking, like, 930 00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:38,800 Speaker 4: who else is the constant? 931 00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:39,160 Speaker 2: Right? 932 00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:42,600 Speaker 4: Like that's a first in itself, especially on that platform 933 00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:44,359 Speaker 4: where they change it every five minutes, and they met 934 00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:49,040 Speaker 4: at everybody every five seconds. And know that when people 935 00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:51,120 Speaker 4: come to you, they're trying to be you or some 936 00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:54,600 Speaker 4: form of you, Like I know that these girls are 937 00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:56,560 Speaker 4: trying to be some form of me and what I 938 00:53:56,680 --> 00:54:00,399 Speaker 4: used to be, right, and but know that what you're 939 00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:04,239 Speaker 4: doing is defining so much for so many men. I 940 00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:07,200 Speaker 4: had a conversation with Draymond the other day. He told 941 00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:08,759 Speaker 4: me some stuff you said to him. He was like, 942 00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:11,399 Speaker 4: that's my dog. I was like, right, Like, you're doing 943 00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:14,600 Speaker 4: what you supposed to do, right, the first real big 944 00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:18,480 Speaker 4: superstar in basketball from his home state. I think I 945 00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:20,960 Speaker 4: maybe I may be making that up, but I really 946 00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:24,040 Speaker 4: think it is and ultimately what he wants to do right. 947 00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:26,600 Speaker 4: Say what you want about Chuck, He's the first to 948 00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:29,240 Speaker 4: be so ridiculous in so many ways would still be accepted. 949 00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:29,520 Speaker 3: Right. 950 00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:34,239 Speaker 4: So it's a beautiful thing that I'm witnessing happen. And 951 00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:36,440 Speaker 4: I love what you said about where you find yourself 952 00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:40,399 Speaker 4: now and being a mainstay at the network. And who 953 00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:43,120 Speaker 4: cares what I think about? Like I have my own experience, 954 00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:45,880 Speaker 4: You have your own experience. We process it differently. I 955 00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:47,840 Speaker 4: came in very differently than you came in. I was 956 00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:50,520 Speaker 4: treated very differently than you retreated all the same, but 957 00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:53,120 Speaker 4: you know what I mean, everyone has their own experience. 958 00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:55,720 Speaker 4: I want to end this podcast with what I asked 959 00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:57,600 Speaker 4: you before off the top, because you said something I 960 00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:00,319 Speaker 4: thought was powerful and I think it'll be helpful. Do 961 00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:04,560 Speaker 4: you ever find yourself because what wasn't present in your 962 00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:09,080 Speaker 4: life doesn't necessarily determine who you are because you've made 963 00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:11,000 Speaker 4: the best of it. But do you ever find yourself 964 00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:13,120 Speaker 4: wishing you could have had a conversation with your father. 965 00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:17,360 Speaker 2: I wanted to meet him in person for sure. 966 00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:19,759 Speaker 1: Like It's one thing to be able to talk to 967 00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:21,880 Speaker 1: him on the phone, and I'm glad I had that 968 00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:25,560 Speaker 1: piece and be able to tell him that I appreciate him, 969 00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:28,240 Speaker 1: I love him, and I don't have any hard feelings, 970 00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:32,600 Speaker 1: but to meet him in person would have provided a 971 00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:38,120 Speaker 1: different level of gravity to the circumstance, like a sense 972 00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:38,760 Speaker 1: of closure. 973 00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:42,040 Speaker 2: You know what I mean That I didn't get a. 974 00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:45,440 Speaker 1: Chance to look him in his eyes, shake his hand, 975 00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:46,959 Speaker 1: hug his neck type of thing. 976 00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:47,800 Speaker 3: Yeah. 977 00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:53,279 Speaker 1: So yeah, that bothered me for a while, and that 978 00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:57,160 Speaker 1: ultimately is what made me walk away from the game. 979 00:55:57,560 --> 00:55:59,680 Speaker 1: When I stopped playing, I could have played a couple 980 00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:04,319 Speaker 1: of more years, and I decided to go work for 981 00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:09,080 Speaker 1: ESPN at that time because I was already working at media. 982 00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:12,120 Speaker 1: You don't just walk away from the league making what 983 00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:16,600 Speaker 1: I made and then making what I may start doing multimedia, 984 00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:19,920 Speaker 1: and so I just felt like I wanted to start 985 00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:25,520 Speaker 1: something different. So, yes, I do feel like that has 986 00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:27,479 Speaker 1: a purpose in my head and heart. 987 00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:29,160 Speaker 2: That's definitely unfulfilled. 988 00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:32,640 Speaker 3: And what do you do with that? Do you know? 989 00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:34,160 Speaker 3: Or is it to be continued? 990 00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:38,640 Speaker 2: I don't mean to be mean. I don't mean to 991 00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:40,759 Speaker 2: be rude. I don't mean to be disrespectful. I don't 992 00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:42,960 Speaker 2: mean to like be naive. 993 00:56:43,239 --> 00:56:50,000 Speaker 1: Maybe right there were days, weeks, months, and years that 994 00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:51,440 Speaker 1: I didn't think about my father. 995 00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:53,120 Speaker 3: Understandable. 996 00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:56,000 Speaker 2: I had to focus on what was happening right now, 997 00:56:56,719 --> 00:57:00,160 Speaker 2: this concrete jungle that I'm growing up in, Like I'm 998 00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:03,640 Speaker 2: gonna get to school, you know what I'm saying, I 999 00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:06,160 Speaker 2: gotta worry about all of this. And so. 1000 00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:10,560 Speaker 1: As I matriculated as a young man, I tried to 1001 00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:14,480 Speaker 1: like not worry about the things that I could control. 1002 00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:17,000 Speaker 1: And I had a terrific mom. I lost my mother 1003 00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:20,680 Speaker 1: in February, and I miss her so much. February second, 1004 00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:25,680 Speaker 1: and she protected me from all of that stuff because 1005 00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:29,160 Speaker 1: she worked at the plant, but she also worked at 1006 00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:32,760 Speaker 1: the bar, so I got a chance to see all 1007 00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:39,000 Speaker 1: sides of working nine to five. Genie Rose. But then 1008 00:57:39,120 --> 00:57:41,960 Speaker 1: we at the bar, I'm giving people they drinks and 1009 00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:44,440 Speaker 1: giving and I'm drinking Shirley Temples and putting money in 1010 00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:46,040 Speaker 1: the pinball machine. 1011 00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:50,840 Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying. And that that gave me 1012 00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:51,800 Speaker 2: a level of. 1013 00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:56,880 Speaker 1: It gave me a level of perseverance that I felt 1014 00:57:56,880 --> 00:57:59,959 Speaker 1: like failure wasn't an option. So as I started having 1015 00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:02,520 Speaker 1: success and all of my goals and dreams started to 1016 00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:05,880 Speaker 1: come true. And I say this to any people, especially 1017 00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:08,640 Speaker 1: black people, guys that don't know your father or don't 1018 00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:11,800 Speaker 1: know your mother or whatever, like at some point you 1019 00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:17,160 Speaker 1: gotta let it go. Like you can't be out here 1020 00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:21,680 Speaker 1: thirty five, still blaming your mother and father beautiful decisions 1021 00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:23,600 Speaker 1: you made, like you just can't. 1022 00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:27,600 Speaker 2: I'm live this. I'm telling you you can't do that. 1023 00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:33,480 Speaker 1: You sound crazy now, Like address your trauma, Like get 1024 00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:37,680 Speaker 1: the therapy and the support that you need. But sometimes 1025 00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:43,400 Speaker 1: that dysfunction is what can actually that stumbling bot can 1026 00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:47,160 Speaker 1: actually be your stepping stone to your opportunities, but it's 1027 00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:49,680 Speaker 1: dressed in overalls and you don't even see. 1028 00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:53,040 Speaker 2: It, and so you can't. I can't. 1029 00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:57,400 Speaker 1: And I didn't always blame what I didn't have for 1030 00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:00,720 Speaker 1: what wasn't happening. I was like, I'm be the guy 1031 00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:04,200 Speaker 1: that that breaks this glass ceiling. And I'm so very 1032 00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:10,000 Speaker 1: fortunate that sports and entertainment and being educated and doing 1033 00:59:10,040 --> 00:59:14,520 Speaker 1: that in this doggy dog field where you know how 1034 00:59:14,560 --> 00:59:17,160 Speaker 1: it works, you know, rense and repeat. When you're the player, 1035 00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:20,920 Speaker 1: it's like, after a couple of years, how much he make? Oh, 1036 00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:25,760 Speaker 1: it's just somebody that's cheaper, you know. And so I've 1037 00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:29,640 Speaker 1: been really fortunate that I've been able to maintain doing 1038 00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:32,600 Speaker 1: what I'm doing. And we'll see, you know, how long 1039 00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:33,880 Speaker 1: it continues to happen like this. 1040 00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:36,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, but you never you never fallen off because you've 1041 00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:41,280 Speaker 4: got too many talents. I already know that there's just 1042 00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:44,600 Speaker 4: that next chapter of greatness. It's never and it's not 1043 00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:47,240 Speaker 4: for the approval of anybody else, but just for yourself, 1044 00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:48,000 Speaker 4: you know what I mean. 1045 00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:48,919 Speaker 2: Thank you, I. 1046 00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:54,520 Speaker 4: See I see it a big, huge, gigantic future. Thank 1047 00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:57,080 Speaker 4: you so much for joining us on Naked. I appreciate you. 1048 00:59:57,200 --> 01:00:05,959 Speaker 4: Jalen Rose, my pleasure. Cheers, cheers, porn of dumb that's 1049 01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:09,880 Speaker 4: been sitting in the fringe for a year. You rich this, 1050 01:00:10,040 --> 01:00:13,320 Speaker 4: We're rich black side over here, real rich black are 1051 01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:14,760 Speaker 4: Why hit my hands. 1052 01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:15,240 Speaker 2: On the date? 1053 01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:17,760 Speaker 1: If she ain't even know what it was he was born, 1054 01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:21,920 Speaker 1: it is she? He was like, that's domb perry on. 1055 01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:23,440 Speaker 1: It s opposed the bull. 1056 01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:26,040 Speaker 3: It's supposed to bull boo. 1057 01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:35,080 Speaker 4: I say this because it's true. All of us, as adults, 1058 01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:38,040 Speaker 4: especially when you become aware of yourself as an adult, 1059 01:00:38,440 --> 01:00:40,000 Speaker 4: spend a lot of time trying to figure out our 1060 01:00:40,080 --> 01:00:42,080 Speaker 4: childhood and how it made us who we are today. 1061 01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:45,920 Speaker 4: And once we break down those images, those ideas, those memories, 1062 01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:49,000 Speaker 4: and we really come into our own we blossom into 1063 01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:51,880 Speaker 4: something special and beautiful. And I believe that is what 1064 01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:55,040 Speaker 4: is happening with my friend Jalen Rose. Nothing is wrong, 1065 01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:58,280 Speaker 4: Everything is right, Everything is as it should be right. 1066 01:00:58,360 --> 01:01:01,240 Speaker 4: We judge ourselves so much, but everything is as it 1067 01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:04,360 Speaker 4: should be. I appreciate him telling his story about his 1068 01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:07,720 Speaker 4: father because it really does show me two things. One 1069 01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:14,600 Speaker 4: incredible determination. He has been able to succeed in spite 1070 01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:16,760 Speaker 4: of because of the images that were in his life 1071 01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:19,600 Speaker 4: his mother. He talks about that he lost his mother recently. 1072 01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:21,480 Speaker 4: I know that had to be painful, and again I'm 1073 01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:22,880 Speaker 4: sending you so much love, my brother. 1074 01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:23,560 Speaker 3: I'm sorry. 1075 01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:26,320 Speaker 4: But then look at what he's been able to do. 1076 01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:29,120 Speaker 4: He's the guy that I know as an NBA player, 1077 01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:32,880 Speaker 4: as a veteran that is giving great analysis on ESPN. 1078 01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:35,760 Speaker 4: There's the actor in him that I'm pretty sure that 1079 01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:38,720 Speaker 4: he has yet to talk about. But I love that 1080 01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:40,440 Speaker 4: he is so much more than what we see on 1081 01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:42,960 Speaker 4: the surface. I say that for you all as well. 1082 01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:45,800 Speaker 4: There's so much more. Don't be afraid to go out 1083 01:01:45,840 --> 01:01:48,480 Speaker 4: and show people who you are. Don't be afraid to 1084 01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:50,600 Speaker 4: make mistakes, Don't be afraid to be like I don't 1085 01:01:50,640 --> 01:01:53,680 Speaker 4: have it. It's so beautiful to be authentic and true 1086 01:01:54,200 --> 01:01:57,240 Speaker 4: and naked. We spend so much time pretending like everything 1087 01:01:57,360 --> 01:02:01,040 Speaker 4: is okay, myself included. But I'm glad Jalen took some 1088 01:02:01,080 --> 01:02:03,800 Speaker 4: time today to share his story, but back next week. 1089 01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:05,120 Speaker 3: I appreciate you all support