1 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:11,560 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to food Stuff. I'm Lauren Vogelbaum and 2 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: I'm an Eries, and today we're talking about sour beer. 3 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 1: Or it could really be like a a two parter 4 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: sour Dough Part two or the prequel. Oh, sour Dough, 5 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: the prequel, but first, right off the top. Oh, hey, 6 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:34,520 Speaker 1: drink responsibly? Yes disclaimer? Yeah, yeah, there you go. Okay, um. 7 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: And we will do episodes about other types of beer 8 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: in the future, but we wanted to start with sours 9 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: because because before refrigeration and pasteurization, pretty much all beer 10 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 1: was sour beer. A lot of things I read called 11 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: it the original beer. Um. It was yet another accidental 12 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: discovery that Yeah, we kind of talked about it loosely 13 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: briefly in our Sour Too episode, because the discovery of 14 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:05,680 Speaker 1: beer is probably closely related to that of bread. Yes, yes, 15 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: but let's let's go ahead and ask the question, what 16 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: is sour beer? Lauren? What is it? Sour beers are 17 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: our beers that contain a larger than usual amount of 18 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 1: sour tasting stuff that makes sense, specifically of of sour 19 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:28,040 Speaker 1: tasting or acidic compounds um, which tastes sour. Yes. While 20 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: most beers have a around like a four on the 21 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:33,400 Speaker 1: Peach scale. Sours tend to dip below that, like as 22 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: low as three. And since the Pach scale is a 23 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:38,399 Speaker 1: log arrhythmic one, that means that they are up to 24 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: sour beers are up to ten times more sour than 25 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 1: other beers. The Peach scale, by the way, was developed 26 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: during the study of beer. The thing I didn't know 27 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: that's great, of course it was. Yeah, the sourness in 28 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: sour beers achieved with a combination of particular yeasts and 29 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 1: bacteria that produced a number of unique flavor compounds as 30 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: the beer for bents and yes, friends, this means that 31 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: this is another episode about bacteria. Poo. I got to 32 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: talk about this all the time. Fermentation isn't so much 33 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: more stuff than I realized. I really can't wait to 34 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: do our pickle episode. It's going to be great. Okay. 35 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 1: So beer basics one O one all right? Yeah, to 36 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 1: make beer, you heat grains and water in a mixture 37 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:28,119 Speaker 1: called wort worked and then you let the wort ferment um. 38 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 1: That is, you either add yeast to induce fermentation, or 39 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,360 Speaker 1: you let wild yeast get in and go to town. 40 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: The yeasts eat some of the sugars in the grains, 41 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: and they excrete three kind of categories of stuff alcohol, 42 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 1: carbon dioxide, which provides the bubbles, and other compounds that 43 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: flavor the brew. The yeasts that are active in making 44 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: most beers are of the saccharam mices genus, which which 45 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: means sugar fungus. By the way, sugar sugar fungus sounds 46 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: so much less sexy or equally sexy sacchara mices. I 47 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 1: don't know anyway. These these critters do float around in 48 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:05,639 Speaker 1: the air, but it's most expedient to add them into 49 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: a beer yourself, either from a fresh new culture or 50 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 1: from the bomb of a previous batch of beer. Barb 51 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: you might remember from our Saturday episode, is that foam 52 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: that develops on the top of fermenting liquid. It's also 53 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:24,239 Speaker 1: the root of the word barbie, meaning like foolish or ridiculous. 54 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: And I cannot believe that I didn't put that together 55 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:31,919 Speaker 1: in our Sturday episode. I didn't either, Barby. It's such 56 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 1: a great word. I know. I've been trying to use 57 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 1: that word more often now now I can have an 58 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: annoying fact to throw in with it as well. Oh yeah, 59 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 1: it's all on now. But so to make sour beer 60 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: you also want to involve some yeasts from the genus 61 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: Britanna mices often called Brett for short, either replacing or 62 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: in addition to Sachara mices. Taxonomically speaking, breaths are from 63 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 1: the same order as Sacchara mices, it from a different 64 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 1: family that their original habitat is the skins of fruits. 65 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 1: Brett yeasts eat sugar um, including long chain, more complex 66 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: sugars that Sacara mices do not, and they excrete acetic acid, 67 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 1: which is the fancy name for vinegar, plus some other 68 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:22,600 Speaker 1: compounds that add flavors. They're also more enthusiastic than Sachara mices, 69 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 1: and so therefore brewers of wine and beer actually have 70 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: a hard time keeping them out. Um, you know that 71 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,720 Speaker 1: they can tolerate a morri cetic environment. They can enter 72 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:35,480 Speaker 1: the process therefore and and thrive during primary fermentation, during 73 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: secondary fermentation in barrels, or even during bottling. Brett is 74 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: sometimes called tacara in the wine world. Um, and it 75 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 1: is not people they are not a fan of it. No, 76 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 1: And it's also sometimes called the beer ruiner. And it 77 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 1: has like you can have a barnyard flavor component yeah. Yeah. 78 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,479 Speaker 1: One of the one of the flavor components and ads 79 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:01,839 Speaker 1: in there is for quently referred to as like yeah, 80 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: like barnyard or like wet dog. Yeah. And I have 81 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: a friend named Brett, who I most positive is not listening, 82 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 1: but if he is, I got such a huge kick 83 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:16,599 Speaker 1: out of like all sentences that had bred in there 84 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:20,839 Speaker 1: about how always coming in ruining everything. It was fun. Oh, 85 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 1: that's amazing. Hybrid hi hybred, sorry about it? Yeah, um uh. 86 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 1: Sour beers also usually involve our old friends lactic acid 87 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:36,480 Speaker 1: bacteria um, most often of the species Pediococcus and Lactobacillus. 88 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 1: Sours frequently also employ a genus of acetic acid bacteria 89 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:46,600 Speaker 1: called aceto bacter, which, like Brett yeasts uh excrete acetic 90 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 1: acid m some years by the way, that are more 91 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 1: sour than usual get that way with the addition of 92 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 1: non living ingredients like a like passion fruit or something 93 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:03,719 Speaker 1: like that. I like the term not living ingredients. That's fantastic. Yes, 94 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: sour beer is a pretty large umbrella. It includes a 95 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: lot of stuff. One way I saw it categorized in 96 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: the beer business is, um, you've got long term sour beers, 97 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:19,119 Speaker 1: and these are beers that are fermented with a mix 98 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:23,040 Speaker 1: of specific bacteria and east and then aged, usually in 99 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 1: a barrel for a specific amount of time at least 100 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 1: six months, but could be up to two years, could 101 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: be longer than that, blended, and then typically allowed to 102 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 1: re ferment in the bottle to achieve the desired level 103 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 1: of carbonation. That's kind of the fancy way of doing it. 104 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 1: That's like the real way with pretty heavy scare quotes 105 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:45,840 Speaker 1: around that. Yes. Also, uh, it produces a more complex 106 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: flavor beer, is what I read. It's pretty close to 107 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: the to the metal champai actually, so that's why, that's 108 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 1: why those those those types of beers tend to be 109 00:06:56,160 --> 00:07:00,279 Speaker 1: more expensive as opposed to short term sour beer, which 110 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: are kettle soured. And you do this by adding a 111 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:06,040 Speaker 1: lacto in the kettle to sour the beer in a 112 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: matter of days before the beer lacto is boiled off 113 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 1: and then fermented with bruige east. Yeah, a lacto being 114 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 1: knows those lacto lactic acid bacteria. Yeah, but we're friends. 115 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: So I like to call that um And this I 116 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: saw frequently described as a one dimensional beer. So these 117 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 1: are you know, people who beers their business and tasting 118 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 1: beer to serve business. So I'm sure that i'd probably 119 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 1: I could tell, but I wouldn't be too too much 120 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: about it, because it's a beer and it's delicious. Yes, yeah, 121 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 1: pretty much. UM and sour beers have undergone a lot 122 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: of growth lately, if you haven't noticed. Yes, in two 123 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 1: thousand and two they made up only fifteen entrees at 124 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 1: the Great American Beer Festival, but that number was on 125 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: nineteen in trees. Yeah. And somebrs think that the term 126 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: itself sour beer has been a part of the problem 127 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: when it comes to convincing folks to try the product, 128 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 1: because sour beer has traditionally meant beer that's off or rotten, 129 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 1: and it requires a leap of faith for you to 130 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: try it. Oh yeah, I have a friend who refused 131 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: to try sour cream until until adulthood for this reason. Um, 132 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: and if you're if you're listening, Darryl, I I'm glad 133 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: that you've seen the light. We have a lot of 134 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: friends we got messages for in this episode. I had 135 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: I thought at least that I had my first sour 136 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: beer less than a year ago. One of my favorite 137 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 1: UM bars, and the bartender described it as a vegetable beer, 138 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:43,559 Speaker 1: and I immediately said, well, that sounds loose, but I've 139 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 1: got to try it and give me some of that 140 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: horrible sounding thing. I've got to try this vegetable beer. 141 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 1: And I tried it, and I didn't like it because 142 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 1: I was expecting beer and it was like, not what 143 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 1: I think of it. Puckery. Yeah, that was very puckery. 144 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:58,719 Speaker 1: It's actually one of my favorites now though I kept 145 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:00,679 Speaker 1: drinking it because I'm a straight I'm not gonna throw 146 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 1: anything away, and it grew on me. And yeah, it's 147 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:07,439 Speaker 1: at Atlanta by Orpheus. Oh yeah, that's an excellent one. 148 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 1: But doing the research for this episode, I realized I've 149 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 1: had a lot of sour beers. I just didn't that's 150 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: not how I thought of them. And we will talk 151 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: about that more later. But before we get to that, 152 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:22,439 Speaker 1: let's take a quick break for a word from our sponsor, 153 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: and we're back. Thank you sponsor. So let's go to 154 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 1: the way back, the way back, the way way back. 155 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:44,199 Speaker 1: Like humans don't have wheels yet, but they have figured 156 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 1: out that if you let grains plus water like hang 157 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 1: out for a while, the result is maybe tasty and 158 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: definitely will make you feel away. It's similar, like we 159 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: said at the beginning, to sour dough. Brewers would wait 160 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 1: and hope for a while back to and yeast to 161 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: work their magic. Uh. And they didn't really know that's 162 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:06,439 Speaker 1: what they were waiting or hoping for. No, but they 163 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 1: knew that if they didn't exactly um. And while they 164 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 1: didn't control the brewing process in this way, they did 165 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:17,199 Speaker 1: they could distinguish between a good sour or a bad 166 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:20,439 Speaker 1: sour or rotten sour. And they probably knew that there 167 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: was a difference in flavor based on the season that 168 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: this thing happened to this magical thing happened. Yes, some 169 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: historians theorized that beer and they love humans have for 170 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: it was the impetus for us to start doing agriculture 171 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 1: at all. Oh yeah, which, if true means beer has 172 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: been around for like ten thousand years. Were you actually 173 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: got a listener mail about this, so I'm glad, I'm 174 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:49,320 Speaker 1: glad we're going to discuss it. The theory goes that 175 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: based on the discovery of piles of animal bones and 176 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 1: large stone barrels that may have been used to brew 177 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: like a grass beer at andres true. For some reason, 178 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 1: I'm magic, just like handfuls of green grass. That's totally inaccurate. 179 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:11,679 Speaker 1: You're right. Um. They found these things at eleven thousand 180 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 1: plus year old temple ruins in southern Turkey. Um, and 181 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 1: they think the humans may have settled down there to 182 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 1: build a temple to worship more. And we all know 183 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 1: the best way to get people to help you out 184 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: when you're moving or building a temple is with food 185 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 1: and beer bribe, right, yeah, clearly. So from there you 186 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:37,679 Speaker 1: need to domesticate grains, not for bread, but for all 187 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 1: your barbery beer. Yes, so, according to this theory, beer 188 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: cane before bread, or at least in this particular instance. 189 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 1: But it is just theory. Yeah. Interesting, it's pre written 190 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 1: history by long shots. Yeah. Oh yeah. And the bones, 191 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: by the way, they could tell, were like barbecue. It's 192 00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: like barbecuan beer. Oh man, Actually, help somebody move now, yep, 193 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 1: there's a side. The oldest written record of beer comes 194 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: to us in the six thousand year old Hymn of Ninkasi, 195 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: and it goes as follows, Ninkasi, you are the one 196 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 1: who pours out the filtered beer of the collector vet. 197 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 1: It is like the on rush of Tigris and euphrates. Wow, yeah, 198 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:30,839 Speaker 1: that's beautiful. Evidence found at a Mesopotamian trading outpost and 199 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:34,079 Speaker 1: present day Iran indicates barley was being fermented there by 200 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: three thousand five d b C. The Sumerians were making 201 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: beer around that time too, and a little south of 202 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: Egypt and ancient Nubian culture was fermenting an ale like 203 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: beverage called busa. Yes, ancient Sumerian text mentioned eight barley beers, 204 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 1: eight immer beers, which is a type of wheat, and 205 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:59,840 Speaker 1: three mixed beers. And they described the experience of drinking 206 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 1: year and written documents as exhilarated, wonderful, and blissful. Sounds 207 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 1: about right, Yeah, yeah, drink responsibly. Um. But by the way, 208 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:12,319 Speaker 1: this was about the time that humans invented wheels for 209 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:15,200 Speaker 1: pottery and then for wheeled vehicles of a few hundred 210 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,680 Speaker 1: years later. Um, the first wheeled chariot probably happened around 211 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 1: thirty two BCS. So humans had beer four thousands of 212 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 1: years before anyone had to worry about designated drivers. Well, 213 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: you know, that's that's very so interesting. I guess that 214 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: makes sense because food is more important than moving stuff 215 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 1: at a certain point. Still, kind of kind of strange. 216 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 1: I think though. Yeah. The ancient Babylonians had records of 217 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:47,079 Speaker 1: twenty types of bruise by two thousand BC, and each 218 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 1: citizen got a daily beer rashtion in an amount fitting 219 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 1: to their social status. Yeah, you could even be paid 220 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:58,679 Speaker 1: for working beer. The ancient Egyptians had records of five 221 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,080 Speaker 1: types of beer and had a five thousand year old 222 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 1: saying that went, may you have bread that doesn't go 223 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 1: stale and beer that doesn't go sour, which they think, 224 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:11,959 Speaker 1: in this case meant rotten. All beer would have been 225 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:16,079 Speaker 1: sour at the time. Yeah. At the time. By the way, 226 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 1: beer brewing was done almost entirely by women. M hm. 227 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 1: They also had over one hundred medicinal prescriptions for beer. Again, 228 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: in case of the like, they like, we like this stuff, 229 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 1: so let's find ways to make this work, right. Yeah, 230 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 1: makes you kind of careless, that's true. Um. The ancient 231 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 1: Greeks and Romans, though they thought that beer was a 232 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 1: barbarian drink. They had so many great opinions they really 233 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: they really did. Um. They were much more partial to wine. Surprise. Um, 234 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: there are record circuit five b C of beer being 235 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 1: brewed by Germanic groups. But they were kind of looked 236 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: down upon. And here's a quote from history Tacitus to 237 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 1: drink the two tons have a horrible brew fermented from 238 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: barley or wheat, a brew which is only a very 239 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 1: far removed similarity to wine man horrible brew. Yeah, brewers 240 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: at the time would add things like honey to enhance 241 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: like the flavor and smell. A lot of the earliest 242 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: beers were made with grains that still had to husk 243 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: on them. So a lot of the ancient carvings to 244 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: pick people drinking beers out of straws. Yeah, like literal straws, 245 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 1: and they're very long. I found the carvings interesting, very 246 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 1: long straws. If we skip ahead to Europe, in the 247 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 1: Middle Ages, the Catholic Church got involved in beer brewing, 248 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: mostly to make money. Many Christians viewed beer as a 249 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: gift from God, until the nineteenth century brought with it 250 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 1: concerns of alcoholism. The whole temperance movement we've talked about before. 251 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: We have it was also seen as less of a 252 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 1: risk and drinking water. His water had all the bacteria. Yeah, 253 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 1: it makes makes sense. A lot of bacteria can't live 254 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: in a environment that's as acidic or alcoholic as as beer. Yeah, 255 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: makes sense. Early North American settlers, UM women were the 256 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 1: family brewers in this case of beer using things like pumpkins, artichokes, 257 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: and corn. Pumpkin beer goes way back. I know, we'll 258 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 1: have to do an episode, okay, okay, at different time. Uh. 259 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: And it was such a staple that bride ale was 260 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: sold during weddings with all proceeds benefiting the bride, and 261 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: during and after giving birth women drink groaning beer. That's 262 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: what it was called. Yeah, that's not my favorite term. 263 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 1: Groaning beer. That sounds like a haunted beer product, I 264 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: don't know. And or something that you drink during Festivus, 265 00:16:54,360 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 1: like during the airing of Greevance. Yeah, that would befitting. Yes. Yes. 266 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 1: In Germany as early as the ninth century, hops were 267 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: added to beer, and this practice slowly spread over the 268 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 1: next couple of centuries. From there, brewers came up with 269 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:16,119 Speaker 1: some brewing guidelines and started mass producing beer as opposed 270 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 1: to the then standard of just making your own UM 271 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 1: and the guidelines were adopted across Europe and by fifteen 272 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: sixteen is generally agreed upon date. Germany enacted the Beer 273 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:32,119 Speaker 1: Purity Law, which was meant to reassure the medieval beer 274 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 1: drinker that all that was in his or her beer 275 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 1: was hops, malted barley and wheat east and water. So 276 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 1: that's that's pretty far back. Yeah, I have these guidelines. Well, 277 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, people have been working on it 278 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 1: for what like nine thousand years at that point, I 279 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:48,919 Speaker 1: guess they did have a long time to think about it. 280 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:54,200 Speaker 1: If we hop over to medieval Belgium, where many of 281 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: the sour beer styles we enjoyed today were perfected, Belgian 282 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: brewers would fill these huge troughs called cool ships by 283 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:06,879 Speaker 1: the way, who ships. That's awesome with wart, the unfermented 284 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:10,639 Speaker 1: liquid that you that will be beer, uh, that you 285 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:13,399 Speaker 1: get from mashing the malt you got from barley, right, 286 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 1: reass we mentioned that earlier, Um, and you always pulling 287 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: them up into the highbrary ceilings where they kept the 288 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 1: windows open so that these wild use in bacteria could 289 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: float on in. And and yeah, get get all up 290 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 1: in the wart hanging out in the cool ships. Yes, 291 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 1: it sounds like a very fun process. Around this time, 292 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,160 Speaker 1: some of the styles of sara beers started becoming more defined, 293 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 1: and here a few examples. But don't be mad if 294 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:41,639 Speaker 1: don't mention your favorite. There are a ton of them. Yes. Um. 295 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:45,920 Speaker 1: The trough plus pulley plus window brewing method resulted in Olympic, 296 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 1: which I also called a true lambic. And I've had 297 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: a lot of these before I had my first, but 298 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,400 Speaker 1: I thought sour beer in Atlanta about a year ago. 299 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 1: So I have been drinking surer beer for a bit longer. 300 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,639 Speaker 1: For for for a longer time than that. Yeah, you could, 301 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,879 Speaker 1: if you want, you can blend fruit into it or 302 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: not or not. Yep. After the wild bacteria yeast exposure occurs, 303 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: the beer is barrel aged for about six months to 304 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 1: a year, and this is the oldest beer style in Belgium. 305 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:23,639 Speaker 1: Then they usually age it in the wooden barrels because 306 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 1: the breathable porous would kind of acted as a breeding 307 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 1: ground for all kinds of sour and funkifying bacteria and 308 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: also health to flavor. Yeah, some of the oldest breweries 309 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 1: in Belgium famously refused to dust or even like remove 310 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 1: cobwebs from their barrel rooms to avoid disturbing the natural 311 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 1: colonies of micro organisms that are hanging out there. That's 312 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,400 Speaker 1: kind of beautiful. It's like you've got your own little, 313 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 1: tiny city. You can't see, Yes, I know, making hear ye, 314 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: just do just doing the stuff, um, pooping a lot 315 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 1: delicious flavors. Um. I'm pretty sure a true Lambic is 316 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:01,159 Speaker 1: a single vintage, but sometimes is older and younger vintages 317 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: are blended together to create another style of sour that's 318 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 1: called a gaze and I think I'm saying that right. Um. 319 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 1: These go through a secondary fermentation after they're bottled, leading 320 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 1: to a kind of Champagney mouth feel and a more 321 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: balanced acidity. M. Another style is creek creek creek that 322 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 1: is soured with tart barillo cherries. That's so good. Yeah, 323 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: before hops were discovered and almost universally agreed upon as 324 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 1: the thing to use, as put down by the Germans 325 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: in their beer purity law that you used fruit or 326 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:39,159 Speaker 1: herbs for flavoring and bittering. Yeah. Yeah. When I was 327 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,959 Speaker 1: in Belgium, which is when most I tried most fives, 328 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:45,160 Speaker 1: I enjoyed many a creek and I think they made it. 329 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,120 Speaker 1: There was like a university there where the students made 330 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:53,200 Speaker 1: sold beer. That's great help pay for their school. That's 331 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 1: so cool. It was cool. I think it was a 332 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 1: creek in in Creek and other fruit lambics by the 333 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 1: way that the fruit is added during the early aging 334 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:05,680 Speaker 1: process and it sets off a secondary fermentation man Champagne. 335 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 1: All all these throwbacks in this episode. There's West Flanders 336 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:14,400 Speaker 1: sour red Ale, where the acidification of beers was seen 337 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 1: as something like a conservation method. Yeah, the low pH 338 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 1: keeping the not so good bacteria from propagating. Older morricidic 339 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: beer was mixed in with the newer batches to keep 340 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 1: that bad stuff out. And then we got to talk 341 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 1: about the goza, not to be confused with the other things. 342 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 1: That sounds a lot like goza, yes, but has more 343 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: use involved in the spelling exactly. Records suggest that in 344 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,360 Speaker 1: mere By Germany, because we're moving away from Beltim into Germany, 345 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 1: the Sara style beer called goza was a local favorite 346 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 1: in Leipzig, which is a town one miles east of 347 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 1: its hometown of Gossler. By the eighteenth century. Gozes are 348 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:58,680 Speaker 1: known for their salty quality, along with the sarnus which 349 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: you get with you and of salts. What the sense 350 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 1: yea and coriander to the malt before fermentation goes as 351 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 1: they undergo to fermentations as well. The first and the 352 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: wooden barrels and second in the bottle where a stopper 353 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,399 Speaker 1: is created out of the dead yeast earlies. I know 354 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,440 Speaker 1: this one experienced a super super high and then is 355 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:24,200 Speaker 1: super low in terms of popularity. Yes, in nine hundred 356 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:28,400 Speaker 1: there were eighty ghost schenka I don't know. I think 357 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:32,439 Speaker 1: so um Or licensed goes of taverns in Germany, but 358 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,439 Speaker 1: after World War Two the last remaining goes of factory 359 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:40,439 Speaker 1: was closed. Elipsig Brewery revived the goza in Nix, but 360 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 1: when the owner of the brewery died in nineteen sixty nine, 361 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 1: that goes and went with him. It wasn't until the 362 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:53,439 Speaker 1: nineteen eighties the reopening of a ghostenschenka started repopularizing the style, 363 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:59,439 Speaker 1: and it's currently making a major comebout. Google trends data 364 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:04,119 Speaker 1: from shows that searches for gozas have outpaced that of 365 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 1: sour beers, especially in the South where the weather is 366 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,680 Speaker 1: more inviting to the start salty beverage. But it's it's 367 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,879 Speaker 1: like trending and it's super what was going up. But 368 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:16,880 Speaker 1: it is definitely a personal favorite of mine. It's just real, 369 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,959 Speaker 1: real weird tasting. It's a lot of flavors. I like it. 370 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: It's good. You definitely need to. It's one of those 371 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:24,160 Speaker 1: things you need to go in and know what you're getting, 372 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 1: I think, because otherwise you'll have an experience like yeah. Yeah. 373 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: I always warned people. I'm like, this beer is salty, 374 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,359 Speaker 1: and they look at me and I'm like, no, really, 375 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,919 Speaker 1: try it, try it, just no, just no. Yeah. Another 376 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: German sour, the Berlin or Weissa, was developed around this 377 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 1: time as well, possibly in medieval Homburg, but it was 378 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:49,120 Speaker 1: mostly enjoyed in you guessed it, Berlin, Berlin, I know, 379 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 1: and actually the product is now a protected appelation in Germany, 380 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,680 Speaker 1: as the brewers making it outside of Berlin can't call 381 00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 1: it that yeah, which is kind of julous and hilarious. 382 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: Napoleon nicknamed this beer the Champagne of the North. Well, 383 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 1: that's pretty that's nice. Nice words from Napoleon. Eighteenth century 384 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,119 Speaker 1: English brewing books typically had a chapter on how to 385 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,640 Speaker 1: fix sour beer, but again it's it's hard to definitely 386 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:21,400 Speaker 1: say if they met sour as in rotten or as 387 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 1: in the flavor of sour, but it is Around this time, 388 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 1: with the arrival of commercial refrigeration and bottling, coupled with 389 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: the ever, increasing railways and routes and trains that made 390 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 1: it easier to mass produce and sell beer. There were 391 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,879 Speaker 1: three thousand two d breweries up and running by eight 392 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:45,399 Speaker 1: in the US. And some some of this, some of 393 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,439 Speaker 1: this refrigeration type research was also and and you know, 394 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 1: the general spread of scientific inquiry what was leading to 395 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 1: some really interesting other research into micro organisms. Exactly in 396 00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:03,439 Speaker 1: eight eight three, Danish scientist IML. Hansen reproduced Pure East, 397 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:08,400 Speaker 1: the first of its kind, at Carlsburg Las Carlsberg. Like 398 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 1: the beer that Carlsberg Dang yep, this meant viwers didn't 399 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 1: have to depend on tricky, inconsistent wild yeast. Similarly, Louis 400 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:21,159 Speaker 1: Pastor's pasteurization meant that verwers could get rid of the 401 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 1: bacteria behind the sureness if they so chose, and many 402 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 1: of them did. In the late eighteen eighties, a few 403 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:32,439 Speaker 1: researchers isolated secondary yeasts is what they were calling them, 404 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 1: that that created those sour, funky flavors and beers that 405 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:40,159 Speaker 1: specifically in English and Irish beers. Then in three bleeding 406 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:44,399 Speaker 1: into nineteen o four, another employee of Carlsberg's labs, one M. 407 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 1: Niel's Clawson identified and published his research on one of 408 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 1: these secondary yeasts, calling it Britanna mices KLAUSSENI meaning British 409 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: fungus and also, you know, giving himself a nice, nice props. Yes, 410 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,639 Speaker 1: and we had to retake this fit because I had 411 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,919 Speaker 1: a moment of insane excitement that this could possibly be 412 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,639 Speaker 1: the same guy behind that the Classen, could be Classen's pickles. 413 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 1: It could be. We don't know that for sure. I'm 414 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:16,119 Speaker 1: going to look it up. Immediately after this, so a 415 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,919 Speaker 1: lot of breweries went to work on isolating yeast trains 416 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 1: and making them proprietary. And this meant a more consistent 417 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,160 Speaker 1: product that could be produced anywhere at any time without 418 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 1: waiting with your fingers crossed on those wild yeast in bacteria. 419 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: And that meant that sour beers became more and more rare. 420 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,720 Speaker 1: And speaking of if you're looking at sour beer in 421 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,159 Speaker 1: the US, it should be no surprise to anyone that 422 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:46,400 Speaker 1: prohibition kind of put a damper on things. Uh, kind 423 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 1: of slow the whole beer thing now in general. Yes, 424 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 1: And by the time it was repealed, most breweries in 425 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 1: the US had shut down. One of the largest survived 426 00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:02,639 Speaker 1: by making near beer or nonalcoholic beer. That's how most 427 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,680 Speaker 1: of them, any of the survivors, that's how they survived. Yeah, 428 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:10,920 Speaker 1: and post Prohibition, the US government imposed very strict regulations 429 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 1: on beer brewing that pretty much made it impossible for 430 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 1: smaller breweries to weather And it wasn't until President Carter 431 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: lifted some of these regulations in ninety nine that smaller 432 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:27,160 Speaker 1: breweries started opening. And at the time they were less 433 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 1: than one hundred breweries in the US. Today, the Brewers 434 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 1: Association estimates set there over three thousand. And A quick 435 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 1: note about beer and in Asia, beer doesn't really have 436 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,160 Speaker 1: a long history in Asia. The oldest brewery in Europe, 437 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 1: Germany's the henst to Fund Brewery, was founded in seven 438 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:52,200 Speaker 1: sixty eight CE. Asia's oldest brewery is two hundred years old, 439 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,119 Speaker 1: and it was set up by the British for the 440 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:58,639 Speaker 1: British in the Himalayas. Japan's first brewery, modern day Kieran 441 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: was established in eighteen sixty nine by a Norwegian American fellow, 442 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,440 Speaker 1: and the second largest brewery in China Seemed now only 443 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,679 Speaker 1: goes back to nineteen o three when it was established 444 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,719 Speaker 1: by German settlers. Um and this isn't to say at 445 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,679 Speaker 1: all that beer in Asia was founded by immigrants or 446 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 1: anything at the story. It's just that the history is very, 447 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 1: very young in the region. They're much more into their 448 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:25,359 Speaker 1: wine and sucky. Yeah. Yeah, we will talk about yes, 449 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: oh yeah, oh, so that's going to be a thirsty, 450 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:34,439 Speaker 1: thirsty episode. Conversially speaking, it wasn't until the nineteen seventies 451 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 1: that Belgian style sour beers were first available for purchase 452 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 1: in the US. Even into the late nineties and still 453 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,719 Speaker 1: now I hear it's just rare. It wasn't uncommon for 454 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 1: people to return cases of sourer beer because they thought 455 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 1: it had gone bad. Yeah, they tried it. They were like, 456 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 1: oh no, it is wrong, here, take it back. American 457 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: microbrewers didn't start experimenting with sours until the nineteen nineties, 458 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 1: when brands like omagog Oli, Gosh and New Belgium Brewing 459 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 1: decided to use more Belgium approach to the whole thing 460 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:11,960 Speaker 1: instead of the English style norm of the time. But 461 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 1: they still weren't making sour beers as we know them. 462 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 1: They were kind of one off. Um. Some breweries were 463 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 1: experimenting without a fruit to beer, like New Glass Wisconsin, 464 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 1: Belgium read that was brewed with cherries or Southampton public 465 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 1: houses sour style beers. But again these were rare. You 466 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 1: didn't you didn't really find them in stores. But New 467 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 1: Belgium decided to invest in a barrel aging program in 468 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 1: nine and by two thousand and one, La fallI, a 469 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 1: blended sour aged in barrels, won a gold medal at 470 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 1: the Great American Beer Festival. Yeah, it was one of 471 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 1: the first of its kind brewed in the US, and 472 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 1: by a popular enough brewery that the word got out. Yes, 473 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 1: word did get out. Port Brewing Company, whose owner had 474 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 1: experimented with Brett the yeast, not the person, uh and 475 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 1: loved the flavor of wild East, followed suit on the 476 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 1: West Coast, and as the craft beer movement took off 477 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 1: in the US, so it is sour beers. Even Miller 478 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 1: Cores is experimenting with sours these days. The Festival of 479 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 1: Wood and Barrel Aged Beer had one hundred and fifty 480 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 1: six sours and a sympnauseum about sour beers a recent 481 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 1: one um and how to make them attracted two beers 482 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 1: and they had to turn brewers away. They just didn't 483 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 1: have space. I mean, not for the brewers, but not 484 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 1: for burs but that. Yeah, and a little fun fact 485 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 1: that I ran across. Guinness, who is very secretive about 486 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 1: their brewing process, claims that the sour no and their 487 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 1: beer comes from three to four percent of old vinegarized 488 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: beer that they store and wooden containers blended into each 489 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 1: new batch, which, if that's true, it's the most widely 490 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 1: consumed sour beer in the world. Oh wow, ye interesting. Okay, 491 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,920 Speaker 1: so we have some other interesting stuff to tell you 492 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,720 Speaker 1: about organic chemistry, but first let's take another quick break 493 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: for a word from our sponsor, and we're back, Thank you, sponsor. 494 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: So let's get into flavor science for a minute. Here. 495 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 1: One way that you get sense and flavors is via 496 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 1: chemical compounds called Esther's and okay, organic chemistry. We can. 497 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 1: We can do this. We can get through this together, friends, 498 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 1: we can. Okay. So, in a yeast cell, like brett uh, 499 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,120 Speaker 1: esters are created by by enzymes. When the cell is 500 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 1: trying to get work done but it doesn't have enough 501 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:58,480 Speaker 1: energy to get work done, cells have to make chemical 502 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 1: reactions happen, turning a bunch of raw materials or reactants 503 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 1: into a bunch of products that it wants. Okay, Um, 504 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 1: and sometimes those chemical reactions take more energy than is 505 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 1: readily available. Uh Like, Well, let's say that you're trying 506 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,760 Speaker 1: to put a nail into a wall, right, but all 507 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: you've got is the nail and the wall and your 508 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: bare hands. It's going to take a lot of work 509 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 1: to get that nail. In enzymes give you a hammer, okay. 510 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,480 Speaker 1: Uh Like, like in in that yeast cell or or 511 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 1: in its cell membrane. These enzymes create esters, which interact 512 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 1: with the raw materials to allow the chemical reaction to 513 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,280 Speaker 1: happen at a lower energy. By in hammer to nail, 514 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: the work gets done. For any professional organic chemists out there, 515 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that's what's going on. But but please 516 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,719 Speaker 1: write in and let me know if I'm terribly wrong 517 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 1: and lying to people. But it's a nice way constructive. Yes, 518 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 1: oh please please do Okay? Alright, So, so, so you've 519 00:32:57,840 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: got these esters that cells have created in order to 520 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 1: do some stuff. They they hang out in or around 521 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 1: a yeast cell until they're broken down by more other 522 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 1: enzymes in order to help do more other work. In 523 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,440 Speaker 1: some cases, though that the rate of ester production is 524 00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 1: much higher than the rate of esther breakdown, and that's 525 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,120 Speaker 1: when you wind up with a whole bunch of a 526 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:22,640 Speaker 1: particular ester in the yeast cells general environment. And ester's 527 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 1: are compounds, like I said, that trigger our senses of 528 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 1: taste and smell. They're what give, for example, fruits and 529 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,760 Speaker 1: flowers their scents and flavors. A couple of examples. Let's 530 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:36,160 Speaker 1: take ethyl hexanoate. It's a product of the growth process 531 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:40,240 Speaker 1: in both uh saccaro mices and bread yeasts, and it's 532 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 1: also found in unripe bananas and pineapples. Um or or 533 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 1: another another esther ethyls syringe gate. It comes from an 534 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 1: interaction of alcohol with an acid that's naturally present in 535 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 1: oak barrels, and it's also present in tobacco and figs. Okay. 536 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 1: So so so these these esters that are in various 537 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 1: other foods and products that we run into, and and 538 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 1: that have sense, because they have sense our stuff that 539 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 1: happens in in beers, and they happen more often in 540 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 1: sour beers than regular beers. Because esters are created from 541 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 1: acids plus alcohols, and because brett and the bacteria and 542 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:28,160 Speaker 1: sours create acids, you get more esters in these finished 543 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 1: alcoholic products. Makes sense to me. I always thought esters 544 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,080 Speaker 1: for those things that like you put under someone's noves 545 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:39,719 Speaker 1: after they've passed. I think that's where that I think 546 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:41,560 Speaker 1: that's where that comes from. That that that is that 547 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:46,240 Speaker 1: is an ester. It's a it's a scent compound vial. Yeah, okay, 548 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,719 Speaker 1: they go into perfumes, they go into artificial foods and 549 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:53,400 Speaker 1: flavorings and yeah, and any time that you're smelling a flower, 550 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 1: you're basically just inhaling and esters. I will be sure 551 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,319 Speaker 1: to ruin someone's romantic moment. The next time I see 552 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 1: smelling a flower, you're inhaling some esters, right know, Hey, 553 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:10,400 Speaker 1: just allowed to let you know that. Yeah, ruined people's fun. 554 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 1: That's great. So all of these esters that are going 555 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:19,440 Speaker 1: to work in sour beers mean that that although beers 556 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 1: have been sour for much of history, making like a 557 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:28,160 Speaker 1: really good refined sour beer is kind of difficult. Breaths 558 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:32,000 Speaker 1: are notoriously unpredictable and get a lot of that barnyard 559 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,839 Speaker 1: taste into stuff which not everyone is excited about. Um. Also, 560 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:39,960 Speaker 1: some brewers avoid sours because once you welcome these yeasts 561 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 1: in bacteria into your brewery, you risk cross contamination um, 562 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:47,839 Speaker 1: cross infection with your non sour beers. Yeah, it's also 563 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:53,479 Speaker 1: quite um, quite an investment. Oh yeah, and all that time. 564 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 1: Yeah uh and and for for this reason, wineries and 565 00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 1: non sour beer brewers generally want to get rid of 566 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,279 Speaker 1: wooden barrels that have been infected with Brett and those 567 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:08,280 Speaker 1: souring bacteria, but sour beer manufacturers are super happy about 568 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 1: taking them. It all kind of works out, it does, yeah, uh, 569 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:15,200 Speaker 1: as as we've mentioned, they're generally aged for at least 570 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,240 Speaker 1: a year uh with with beer. Kind of like anyone 571 00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:20,600 Speaker 1: was just saying, a wooden barrels have to be watched, 572 00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:24,920 Speaker 1: I eat tasted um very carefully because of the relatively 573 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:29,440 Speaker 1: low alcohol and high pH of beer versus wine. So 574 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,759 Speaker 1: there's even a sour beer project, just like the sour 575 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:37,960 Speaker 1: dough project. There's so many crossovers. Their goal is to 576 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:43,800 Speaker 1: understand this quote microbiological mystery. It's very similar to the 577 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,440 Speaker 1: sour dough project. They want you to send in samples 578 00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:50,040 Speaker 1: and they're going to analyze it and map it. So, oh, 579 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 1: that's wonderful. Look it up if you're interested. Yeah. Oh, 580 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:56,760 Speaker 1: and a note about pairing sour beers. A note about 581 00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:01,560 Speaker 1: notes uh uh. So, so the the acidity of sour 582 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,959 Speaker 1: beers is really great for cheese courses. Um. Also also 583 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,960 Speaker 1: there's there's all that complexity and little salt twinges that 584 00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 1: helps set cheeses off. Um. The more powerful sours are 585 00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 1: really great with with very powerful dishes that can stand 586 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,320 Speaker 1: up to them. You know, a barbecue, fatty grilled meats 587 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:23,040 Speaker 1: and fish, mushrooms, distinctive shellfish like like crabs or muscles, um, 588 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:27,520 Speaker 1: and anything savory that you've made with plums, okay plums 589 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,800 Speaker 1: and specific Yeah yeah um that the more delicate sours 590 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,479 Speaker 1: are nice with like spicy foods and salads and lighter 591 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,800 Speaker 1: proteins of mild milder fish or chicken. Um. But you know, 592 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,440 Speaker 1: really as as always get out there and try stuff 593 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 1: and find out what pairings you like. Yeah, there's no well, 594 00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:49,280 Speaker 1: very few. There's a couple of wrong ways to drink 595 00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:51,960 Speaker 1: to drink a beer, but there's some things I personally 596 00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:56,040 Speaker 1: would avoid, but you know, whatever works for you exactly. 597 00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:02,440 Speaker 1: Well that is our episode on our beer. Um. We 598 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:06,399 Speaker 1: probably there's gonna be a video about this, yes, we hope. 599 00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,720 Speaker 1: So we're set to go film and a couple of brewers, 600 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:14,840 Speaker 1: local local brewers in in the near future. And if 601 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:18,120 Speaker 1: that happens, then by the time this episode comes out, 602 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:22,120 Speaker 1: the video will probably be done. Yes, it's like time travel. 603 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:27,839 Speaker 1: It is. It's a very fun game of prediction and chance. Yes, 604 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 1: um and and we will absolutely do more other episodes 605 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,239 Speaker 1: about more other styles of beer and get into a 606 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:36,360 Speaker 1: few of the fun facts that I was I was 607 00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:38,279 Speaker 1: just like, no, I can't go down that rabbit hole. 608 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:40,200 Speaker 1: I have to have to re center back back to 609 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,120 Speaker 1: sour beers. So yeah, really excited about all of that 610 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:48,320 Speaker 1: in the future, absolutely, But for now, let's read some 611 00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:54,280 Speaker 1: listener mail. Listener mail, Chad sentenced this note. I greatly 612 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:58,120 Speaker 1: enjoyed your episode concerning sour dough. The information helped me 613 00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:01,640 Speaker 1: further appreciate my own sour dough culture, which sits beside 614 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,760 Speaker 1: the butter and yeast in my refrigerator. Her name is Pearl, 615 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,920 Speaker 1: and I recently realized that because of her, I've developed 616 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:11,480 Speaker 1: a strange habit. I made this culture from scratch, meaning 617 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:15,280 Speaker 1: I was able to experience the quote dirty sock smell 618 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:19,080 Speaker 1: at its start, and I am fascinated that it now 619 00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,799 Speaker 1: smells like sweet buttermilk, so much so that I caught 620 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,320 Speaker 1: myself inviting my family to smell the culture as I 621 00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:31,360 Speaker 1: attempted to impart my excitement concerning this transformation. About midway 622 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:34,239 Speaker 1: through handing the mason jar to my dad, I thought, dude, 623 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:38,440 Speaker 1: this is weird. Don't make this a habit anyway. I 624 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:40,480 Speaker 1: love your show. Pearl seems to enjoy it as well 625 00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:43,520 Speaker 1: as it gives her culture. See what I did there? 626 00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,960 Speaker 1: Love it? Thank you? Yes, And I don't know. I 627 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 1: don't think it's that weird. If if we ever end 628 00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:54,960 Speaker 1: up at your house, please let us smell Pearl. Now 629 00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:59,319 Speaker 1: it feels a little, it feels weird. I made it weird. 630 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:04,719 Speaker 1: It's okay, Megan wrote in response to our French food episode. 631 00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:07,400 Speaker 1: When I was in college, I did study abroad for 632 00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:12,400 Speaker 1: five weeks in Strasbourg, France. Yes, the professor that was 633 00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:16,200 Speaker 1: with our group banded McDonald's. She told us that we 634 00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:19,680 Speaker 1: didn't come all the way to France just to eat McDonald's. Well, 635 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,000 Speaker 1: my college roommate was also on the same trip, and 636 00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:24,720 Speaker 1: we got a little homesick and decided to comfort ourselves 637 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,200 Speaker 1: with some Mickey D's. So as we were walking bags 638 00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:31,480 Speaker 1: in hand to secretly eat our contraband McDonald's, of course 639 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:35,319 Speaker 1: we ran into our professor, and of course she reprimanded us, 640 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,759 Speaker 1: but it was totally worth it because it was so delicious, 641 00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:41,279 Speaker 1: like a million times better than what they serve over here, 642 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:45,960 Speaker 1: hands down. No regrets about traveling to France to eat McDonald's. 643 00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:51,319 Speaker 1: We have had so many listeners, so many listeners right 644 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,880 Speaker 1: in about experiences at McDonald's in other countries, especially in 645 00:40:55,200 --> 00:41:02,080 Speaker 1: France and Japan, which I find fascinating. Yeah, yeah, always 646 00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:04,320 Speaker 1: always the best. Um if you if you have a 647 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:06,960 Speaker 1: story like that or anything else you'd like to tell us, Uh, 648 00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,880 Speaker 1: you can get in touch. Yes, we have an email. 649 00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:12,200 Speaker 1: It is food Stuff at how stuff works dot com. 650 00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:15,839 Speaker 1: We also are on social media, were on Instagram at 651 00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:19,600 Speaker 1: food stuff and on Twitter and Facebook at food stuff HSW. 652 00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:21,759 Speaker 1: We hope to hear from you, and we hope that 653 00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:23,359 Speaker 1: lots more good things are kind of your way.