Speaker 1: Welcome back to point of origin. Today we pay homage
Speaker 1: to coffees, African origins and roots from East Africa to
Speaker 1: the East Bay. Up first with coffee entrepreneur Caba Conte
Speaker 1: of Red Bay Coffee. He discusses his journey from pioneering
Speaker 1: African American coffee roaster too in his own words, the
Speaker 1: largest black owned coffee company in the world. And Burundi
Speaker 1: Janine neon Ziema Aroian teaches us what makes Burundi an
Speaker 1: ideal coffee supplier. And finally we chat with Doug Hewitt
Speaker 1: of ninety one Coffee in Oakland, California, a nonprofit organization
Speaker 1: providing job training for refugees. Today on point of origin,
Speaker 1: it's black coffee that we you know, find ourselves, you know,
Speaker 1: really situated in this especially coffee movement where you know,
Speaker 1: things are really growing and a lot of awareness around
Speaker 1: origins of coffee. And there was maybe ten fifteen years
Speaker 1: ago the sort of so called third wave of coffee
Speaker 1: really came to the forefront with companies like Stumptown and
Speaker 1: Blue Bottle. On the walls of Red Bay Coffee HQ
Speaker 1: in fruit Bale, California is a huge living sculpture of
Speaker 1: Africa by way of hanging plants in the shape of
Speaker 1: the continents. Outline in the background is the hum of
Speaker 1: roasting sheens, embellished by the ambient buzz of a diverse
Speaker 1: cross section of the Bay Area community. Red Bay has
Speaker 1: never just been a quick stop for coffee and always
Speaker 1: a hub for the neighborhood. Here Kaba is explaining coffee
Speaker 1: and the way that it is most often talked about
Speaker 1: within and around the industry, using the nomenclature of waves.
Speaker 1: What I'm seeing American now is maybe a fourth wave
Speaker 1: of coffee that's really addressing not just the quality of coffee,
Speaker 1: but in addition to that, the movement around it, the
Speaker 1: really the impact that we're having on the environment and
Speaker 1: on various communities. And when you talk about this movement,
Speaker 1: can you summarize what this sort of third and fourth
Speaker 1: wave coffee movement is for people who might not be
Speaker 1: aware with that version. The third wave coffee movement, you know,
Speaker 1: really began, like I said, about fifteen years ago, and
Speaker 1: it was around a couple of principles. It was around
Speaker 1: roasting coffee to its sweet spot and not over roasting it,
Speaker 1: really trying to roast a lot lighter than it had
Speaker 1: historically been to really reveal more of the nuances of
Speaker 1: of the coffee and and how it reflects the terror
Speaker 1: of the origin where it was grown, the environment, um so,
Speaker 1: and and really being a lot more transparent about the
Speaker 1: origins where these you know, particular farms came from these microlots. Also,
Speaker 1: the third wave had to do with in the cafes
Speaker 1: kind of a certain aesthetic coffee. So that's a rough
Speaker 1: summary of what sort of the third wave was. It was.
Speaker 1: It was post Starbucks, which was you know, kind of
Speaker 1: like a second wave if if, if you will, one
Speaker 1: another thing that was not necessary part of the third wave,
Speaker 1: but it was just how it was, which is it's uh,
Speaker 1: you know, very wide elite, elitist space in terms of
Speaker 1: these kind of fancy specialty coffee shops. So this this
Speaker 1: next wave, you know, really just kind of taking form,
Speaker 1: is just you seeing a lot more folks who are
Speaker 1: reflecting some of these origin countries, whether it's you know,
Speaker 1: folks from you know, the the teens community or African
Speaker 1: Americans participating. But really the net is getting wider and
Speaker 1: more people are starting to enter into this space. Actually,
Speaker 1: two thousand eighteen was the first time that they just
Speaker 1: gathered some data where it showed that African Americans are
Speaker 1: the fastest growing consumers especialty coffee. You know, so and
Speaker 1: coffee overall is sort of flatline in terms of growth,
Speaker 1: but it's um so, there's that whole movement what we're
Speaker 1: tapping into, right, some of the things you're not really
Speaker 1: tapping into it. You kind of are the movement, though.
Speaker 1: I feel like you're being kind of modest right now
Speaker 1: because you're talking about this burgeoning group of black coffee drinkers.
Speaker 1: I mean, I came in on the third wave, but
Speaker 1: you know, like you you are the uh the black
Speaker 1: coffee roaster in the States, right so uh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I was saving that for you. Yeah. That's my job
Speaker 1: is to let people get the full context now for sure.
Speaker 1: And that's why I want to talk to you, you know,
Speaker 1: because it is you guys started in and you know
Speaker 1: it's we're now five years in, guys are continuing to grow.
Speaker 1: And I have in my time in Oakland very much
Speaker 1: experienced the amount of enthusiasm and excitement, especially black and
Speaker 1: brown folks in Oakland have felt around your brand and
Speaker 1: the quality of the coffee that you are are selling.
Speaker 1: But how did you as as a black man who
Speaker 1: was an artist and entrepreneur, I mean, you had a
Speaker 1: restaurant in Berkely, how did you find your way into
Speaker 1: the coffee game? And once you landed there, how much
Speaker 1: of your awareness self awareness as a black man in
Speaker 1: the space has influenced the way that you've run and
Speaker 1: grown Red Bay. Like a lot of people in the
Speaker 1: coffee industry, didn't necessarily seek out to be in the
Speaker 1: coffee industry, but UM kind of came in the back door,
Speaker 1: so to speak. So that was new to me and
Speaker 1: UM but UM just having impact, hiring, building the team, helping,
Speaker 1: you know, support UM people. It was just really fascinating path.
Speaker 1: So that's kind of how I got into it. Through
Speaker 1: the arts, into the coffee. The coffee really took off.
Speaker 1: Open a second coffee shop. Now I got two coffee shops.
Speaker 1: It's time to chap into some of the relationships I've
Speaker 1: had established around the world. Is A is a photojournalist,
Speaker 1: UM traveling to many African and Central American and Caribbean
Speaker 1: coffee origin countries. Uh Um. So I wanted to kind
Speaker 1: of cut out the middleman and start sourcing my own coffee.
Speaker 1: And so that was a whole you know, um experience
Speaker 1: onto itself in terms of you know, just my path
Speaker 1: on on on teaching myself on how to roast coffee
Speaker 1: and kind of enter into that level of the game.
Speaker 1: And it's a good point that you mentioned about these
Speaker 1: countries of origin, because one of the weird things about coffee,
Speaker 1: or maybe not that weird at all, is that most
Speaker 1: of the countries that are growing and producing the coffee
Speaker 1: are exactly the opposite of the countries who are importing
Speaker 1: the coffee and consuming the coffee. So when you moved
Speaker 1: into the idea of roasting and having a little bit
Speaker 1: more of a stake in the supply chain, how much
Speaker 1: was that on your mind when you made that decision. Uh, well,
Speaker 1: it's something I was very aware of, you know, like
Speaker 1: I mentioned in in these sort of third wave coffee shops,
Speaker 1: you know, just the overall UH culture was very homogenous. Uh.
Speaker 1: This is something that you know, my folks have adopted
Speaker 1: and uh and fetishized, you know, especialty coffee, along with
Speaker 1: a lot of other components of black culture. Coffee started
Speaker 1: in Africa, Ethiopia to be specific. You know, when the
Speaker 1: more I was learning about the history of coffee and
Speaker 1: the origins of coffee, and it just seemed to go
Speaker 1: against the grain of the popular misconception that coffee started
Speaker 1: in Italy or Seattle or Columbia or something. So that
Speaker 1: was something that was important to me. You know. It
Speaker 1: was actually even camped into some of the work I
Speaker 1: did as a photo journalist, which was wanting to sort
Speaker 1: of reveal some of the stories UH in Africa and
Speaker 1: African to ASPRAA that were I think, you know, miss
Speaker 1: uhconceived images and understandings of Africa right where it's not
Speaker 1: just a desolate place with misery and you know, suffering,
Speaker 1: but you know vibrant, rich cultures with lush lanes and
Speaker 1: you know there's hard times too. But as a photographer
Speaker 1: and artists I went into I was compelled to show
Speaker 1: and tell some of those stories. I'm seeing more and
Speaker 1: more entrepreneurs of color getting into coffee. It's a billion
Speaker 1: dollar a year industry. So this is an enormous industry
Speaker 1: of technology, education, training, importing, exporting for people who are
Speaker 1: not up on coffee, who can't really understand or rationalize
Speaker 1: like a three dollar or four dollar a cup of coffee. Um,
Speaker 1: can you talk about some of the distinguishing characteristics from
Speaker 1: some of the regions that you will work with, and
Speaker 1: how that has an impact on the premium coffee if
Speaker 1: you think about the spectrum of quality and prices that
Speaker 1: come with the industry, like wine coffee, for really special
Speaker 1: tea coffee emerged as a theme. It was really just
Speaker 1: the cheapest coffee, roasted really dark. So it's all sort
Speaker 1: of the same as and predictability of of mediocracy. And
Speaker 1: it was cheap and you know, and it had caffeine
Speaker 1: and that was sort of the thing. So as as
Speaker 1: the industry started to kind of specialize and trying to
Speaker 1: elevate the quality, you know, the level of investment, the
Speaker 1: level of labor that goes into it. You know, the
Speaker 1: complexity you know of specialty coffee is as much or
Speaker 1: greater than than wine. Special thing is once you start
Speaker 1: sort of exploring outside of latte's and cappuccinos and flavored drinks,
Speaker 1: and so yeah, I would just encourage everyone who's listening
Speaker 1: to this. You know, next time you're coffee shop and
Speaker 1: you have a few extra minutes, you know, um order
Speaker 1: to pore over and just talk to the recent about
Speaker 1: some of the different options, and you know, you may
Speaker 1: pay a dollar more and wait a few more minutes. Uh,
Speaker 1: but go forward and invest invest in that all right on,
Speaker 1: and what is next for Red Bay Coffee? Signed the
Speaker 1: lease on a on a building in South l a.
Speaker 1: And we're just broke ground this week on the construction
Speaker 1: of it. And uh yeah, it's very exciting, you know.
Speaker 1: So what we're building is a public rostary, but our
Speaker 1: spaces are also open to the public, their cafes, their
Speaker 1: their venues for doing all sorts of events. So that's
Speaker 1: one of the things that distinguished his Red Bay Coffee
Speaker 1: from most coffee companies. We create platforms for community engagement.
Speaker 1: We did two hundred events last year in Oakland at
Speaker 1: our public rostery there. So this will be our second
Speaker 1: public rosary and it's you know, eleven thousand square fee. Um.
Speaker 1: And there will be you know, designed, there will be
Speaker 1: our you know events around you know um, you know, uh,
Speaker 1: independent films or you know, fundraises for fifty black women
Speaker 1: running for political office, conferences around educating the black child
Speaker 1: to live music and you know, pole dancing demonstrations that
Speaker 1: I mean, it really is really a reflection of the community.
Speaker 1: It's really a manifestation of what is around us in
Speaker 1: the community. Really Big Coffee is the largest black owned
Speaker 1: coffee company in the world and UM, and we're making
Speaker 1: a impact. We're you know, doing what we do in
Speaker 1: terms of storytelling and marketing and and UM to make
Speaker 1: especially coffee more approachable in terms of you know, really
Speaker 1: how it's you know, thinking about some of these relationships,
Speaker 1: you know what I have seen mostly in the industry,
Speaker 1: it's a lot more sort of barista as a color, right,
Speaker 1: So it's visibly you're you're seeing it change on the
Speaker 1: very front lines. UM. Not as much in the boardrooms
Speaker 1: and ownership and and really executive leadership of some of
Speaker 1: the more competitive companies. I'm not really seeing it there yet.
Speaker 1: I'm seeing more and more entrepreneurs of color getting into coffee.
Speaker 1: It's a billion dollar a year industry and there's just
Speaker 1: such a vast array of career paths and opportunities. I'm
Speaker 1: always encouraging folks to to, you know, explore them. I
Speaker 1: was born and raised in Bundi, which is a central
Speaker 1: East Africa. It's a very small and tiny country and
Speaker 1: we call it the heart of Africa as a more fact,
Speaker 1: but unlocked sharing borders would want that to the north
Speaker 1: Tanzania to the east and then Congo to the west.
Speaker 1: Burundi native Janine neon Ziema, a Roian, is the owner
Speaker 1: and founder of j NP Coffee. Yeah, so brund is
Speaker 1: a producing it to a coffee producing country actually which
Speaker 1: most people you know, not everybody knows about it. But
Speaker 1: we didn't drink coffee. Actually when I was growing up
Speaker 1: in my own home, we actually drink more tea, teas more.
Speaker 1: You know, the culture you know, in Burundi and um
Speaker 1: coffee mainly was used for is a is a cash crop.
Speaker 1: In two thousand twelve, Janine founded j NP Coffee and
Speaker 1: has since won multiple awards for her specialty coffees and
Speaker 1: development strategies, which have consistently prioritized participation in equity for
Speaker 1: women working at the point of origin, prioritizing gender equality,
Speaker 1: supporting financial literacy and education, plus development of leadership skills.
Speaker 1: Janine today is the only woman who is a majority
Speaker 1: shareholder in a large Burundian coffee conglomerate. Bone is a
Speaker 1: very small country. It's actually the size of Maryland State. UM.
Speaker 1: And then because it's so small also um, there is
Speaker 1: a scarcey of land. Uh. There's eleven million people living
Speaker 1: in Burundi. UM and really we kind of like live
Speaker 1: on the top of each other, if she might say,
Speaker 1: because of you know, how small the country is and
Speaker 1: and and also um what can be produced from that country.
Speaker 1: So when we really talk about coffee that's produced from Burundi, UM,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's very little compared to how much coffee
Speaker 1: is produced in places like you know, Brazil. UM. So
Speaker 1: because of that, the opportunity actually to be able to
Speaker 1: make a coffee from Brundi very special and very unique
Speaker 1: is that, um, because it's not overwhelming. We don't use machinery,
Speaker 1: you know, but you know, the cherries are picked by
Speaker 1: hand during the harvests and every year by the farmers
Speaker 1: and um. So the you know, the the labor work,
Speaker 1: it's very intensive. This is something also some of the
Speaker 1: most people don't understand is the amount of time and
Speaker 1: energy that goes into really making that cup of perfect
Speaker 1: cup of coffee that you end up by consuming every
Speaker 1: morning that we all look forward to. Uh So, but
Speaker 1: you know, labor wise, it is it is very intensive
Speaker 1: because it's the same bound the coffee is picked by hand.
Speaker 1: There's no machineries, um. And it's it's delivered to the
Speaker 1: neuralests you know, wet meal, and usually that's about an
Speaker 1: hour or so of walk. So most of the pickers
Speaker 1: you know would actually deliver on the on the head um.
Speaker 1: Some of them were you know, fortunately have a bicycle.
Speaker 1: They will actually put on a bicycle so it can
Speaker 1: be delivered to the nearest you know, wet meal on
Speaker 1: on bicycle. And then once the coffee actually get to
Speaker 1: the wet maal it gets there's like another level process,
Speaker 1: you know, they had. There's this flotation process that the
Speaker 1: coffee had to go through. And after the flotation and
Speaker 1: which I mean the you know, the good things, they
Speaker 1: take it out the bad things that throw it away.
Speaker 1: And then after that the coffee goes into a machinery
Speaker 1: which called the the popping, which removed the skin over
Speaker 1: you know, the cherry. And then it goes into uh
Speaker 1: the soaking overnight soaking of the cherries into um tanks
Speaker 1: you know, until you know that what they called the
Speaker 1: musilage to be able to remove that you know, mutilage
Speaker 1: on on on the you know, on the beans, and
Speaker 1: then from there the wash it and then it goes
Speaker 1: onto the called the rays African beds and that is
Speaker 1: like a thirty days time to really turn and um,
Speaker 1: turning and and moving and covering of of the of
Speaker 1: the of the bean until it dries out and then
Speaker 1: goes to the dry meal um then which it goes
Speaker 1: through the last process before I get explorts. So it's
Speaker 1: it's very labor intense. But because so the nature of
Speaker 1: the country being small, on the amount of coffee that's
Speaker 1: being produced in Bundi, it's small relative to what goes
Speaker 1: on in other bigger countries um or major countries, which
Speaker 1: also is also in my point of view, as an
Speaker 1: opportunity to really make the Boondi coffee just amazingly exceptionally. UM. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: that makes sense. Because it's so small, it actually gives
Speaker 1: you a larger opportunity and the global marketplace because it's
Speaker 1: a more specialty item. For me, the reason I really
Speaker 1: got into more coffee and and and left the corporate
Speaker 1: world was the ability, as I said about this you
Speaker 1: know special beings from Bundy, the ability that we actually
Speaker 1: we could you know, utilize this being to alleviate people
Speaker 1: out of poverty. In two thousand and eight, before starting
Speaker 1: JMP Coffee, Janine started a nonprofit called Burundi Friends International
Speaker 1: and Economic Empowerment Initiative to create sustaining communities in Burundi.
Speaker 1: In the last four years alone, J and P has
Speaker 1: paid over a quarter million dollars in the form of
Speaker 1: bonuses and premiums which encourage quality and ensure economic sustainability.
Speaker 1: So I actually use this as a way to kind
Speaker 1: of empower you know, farmers in Bundy to kind of
Speaker 1: provide them, you know, an opportunity to be able to
Speaker 1: get the extra income in by incentivizing and empowering the
Speaker 1: farmers to produce the high quality you know cup of coffee.
Speaker 1: Because we always go back and provide what we call
Speaker 1: the second payment in the form of a premium then
Speaker 1: again to encourage them to continuously you know, produce a
Speaker 1: high quality you know coffee. But in terms of so
Speaker 1: I'm involved from everything, you know, there's a from you know,
Speaker 1: dealing with farmers. You know, I get calls from farmers
Speaker 1: all the time UM that that we that we deal
Speaker 1: with to you know, dealing with one males that we
Speaker 1: also happened to also have some shares in some of
Speaker 1: their web mails, which is the processing you know centers
Speaker 1: UH in Bundy to UM making sure that every single time.
Speaker 1: I always tell people it's like every cherries that we
Speaker 1: provide is Genpi coffee. We have been involved from that
Speaker 1: chair from the time we get picked from the tree
Speaker 1: to the time we actually get delivered to the wind
Speaker 1: male which just follow it all the way through. As
Speaker 1: as as an owner, I get involved from you know,
Speaker 1: farmers wanting to work with us and figuring out we
Speaker 1: want to work with and how we're going to support them,
Speaker 1: to making sure that you know, the coffee, we select
Speaker 1: the right coffee and and we bring forward the right coffee,
Speaker 1: to exporting a small fact right now is really speaking, um,
Speaker 1: just finishing putting some coffee on trucks that are living Bundy,
Speaker 1: and we have some continuers that have already left you
Speaker 1: know the port of Tanzania heading um, you know to
Speaker 1: the States. So this this, this is the whole taking
Speaker 1: talking about the whole picture of what I get involved
Speaker 1: from knowledge is you know what coffee origins that you know,
Speaker 1: our coffee come from. But she also really getting the coffee,
Speaker 1: you know, move smoothly and safely from Londed to get
Speaker 1: into port in the US too, then finally getting to
Speaker 1: our rosters you know, throughout the country. In this case
Speaker 1: in the US, but also in other part of the
Speaker 1: world because we also work in Europe and an Asia.
Speaker 1: M hm, can you help us understand Burundi and it's
Speaker 1: coffee from a ter war perspective? Very good question. So, Um,
Speaker 1: first of all, I think, as I had mentioned earlier,
Speaker 1: brewing this absolutely gorgeous country. So it's a bit and
Speaker 1: and and you don't I didn't know myself how beautiful
Speaker 1: it is actually until I went back, which is very interesting.
Speaker 1: But it's very hilly. Um and coffee usually grow from
Speaker 1: anywhere around six six thousand feet above sea level. Um
Speaker 1: and Um. The weather is very cool in the countryside
Speaker 1: where the you know, coffee grows, and usually on hills.
Speaker 1: Um And the soil itself, it's a volcanic soil. It's
Speaker 1: actually kind of a reddish soil, which is very good
Speaker 1: when it comes to providing the right nutrients you know,
Speaker 1: for you know, for the cherries. So it also helps
Speaker 1: you know, to hold the water very well in the
Speaker 1: cherries and also produced like the the right ingredients that
Speaker 1: the cherries need to grow and and and grow well.
Speaker 1: Burundi's volcanic soil and modest annual rainfall contribute to a
Speaker 1: perfect environment for growing coffee. Volcanic soil is rich and
Speaker 1: nutrients such as nitrogen, which coffee plants really really need.
Speaker 1: Burundi's Arabica coffee grows at a high altitude, which contributes
Speaker 1: to the bright acidity, sweetness and complexity of these full
Speaker 1: bodied coffees. And then there's a sunshine so it's cooler
Speaker 1: during the day, the airly in the morning, uh, kind
Speaker 1: of like the bay area actually climates, if I might say.
Speaker 1: And then during the middle of the day, you know,
Speaker 1: the sun just like you know, just shine on on
Speaker 1: on the trees and then on the cherries, which is
Speaker 1: something that also perhaps you know, the you know, the
Speaker 1: cherries to grow very well. And and and I time it
Speaker 1: goes down to our cooling which also preserve and help
Speaker 1: uh you know, the cherries you know grow properly. Um.
Speaker 1: So yeah, so very high elevation um. And also the
Speaker 1: volcanic soil of of of Burundi and also the cooler
Speaker 1: weather um and also being able to grow on the
Speaker 1: hills really helps. I guess the coffee from Bundy very
Speaker 1: unique and and and Bundy also have like when you
Speaker 1: talk about the different areas, it's like the northern part
Speaker 1: of Brundi which is you know share boarders Rwanda which
Speaker 1: is the Cayanza and go to Ze and there is
Speaker 1: a central part of Boondy which also Um it's another
Speaker 1: different when it comes to a coffee coming from one
Speaker 1: area to another one you think you find in my
Speaker 1: point of you find more lemoned citrus and from one side,
Speaker 1: and I find more chocolate and spices from the other side,
Speaker 1: from the other part of the country. And then there
Speaker 1: is actually new Ti we also were trying we have
Speaker 1: recently discover which is more and there a north east
Speaker 1: part of the country. UM that's more kind like crisp clean,
Speaker 1: you know in terms of like the taste notes that
Speaker 1: you can find into the coffee. And and additional to these,
Speaker 1: you know Spruckling a city back that you usually would
Speaker 1: expect to our finding some very well prepared coffee from Bounding. Wow,
Speaker 1: God love it. So it's it's very interesting because I
Speaker 1: also think that's you know, each coffee in my point
Speaker 1: of view, each of the different coffee. Um of our
Speaker 1: coffee has a home. So they always they always tell you,
Speaker 1: even like you know, high end coffee to just not
Speaker 1: so high end coffee. Each coffee has a home. But
Speaker 1: it really I think that's we are. We are very
Speaker 1: lucky um to do from the fact that you know,
Speaker 1: I really I choose why it sell my coffee too
Speaker 1: most of the times. So I do know people who
Speaker 1: understand we're going to you know, treat the coffees and
Speaker 1: wild who also aligned with our value because above or
Speaker 1: beyond just the quality, which this is the first and
Speaker 1: foremost you know for my business and has always been
Speaker 1: UM that I always you know, strive for um. You know,
Speaker 1: companies also have to be alligned in terms of lack
Speaker 1: our values and when we understand. So I tried to
Speaker 1: kind of like you know, pick you know, based on
Speaker 1: that and um because to me, producing the great coffee
Speaker 1: from Burundi and bring the great coffee from Bundy to
Speaker 1: the world market is so wonderful. But what else are
Speaker 1: we doing for the people? And what are the politics
Speaker 1: of land and Burundi Because you mentioned earlier it's a
Speaker 1: really densely populated country, so what is the relationship among
Speaker 1: the citizens and the farmers, So the politocademics are around
Speaker 1: the land. Is is very interesting because I'm chuckling because
Speaker 1: one of my belief and one of the things that
Speaker 1: my company is very well known for is the fact
Speaker 1: that we empower women. Um. And the reason how we
Speaker 1: have like a very small program on empowering women is
Speaker 1: because women bound they usually you know, did not have
Speaker 1: right to on land. Um. So if um you know, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, if her husband or father ahead I'm man
Speaker 1: who's like ahead of the of the of the of
Speaker 1: the household passed away, um, the wife does not acquire
Speaker 1: ownership of the land. However, women in Burundi are expected
Speaker 1: and also do are the one who do work the land.
Speaker 1: They work the land. Um. They are the one who
Speaker 1: provide fe wh who do all the work and you
Speaker 1: know in the house. But not they're not not just
Speaker 1: necessary the one who went up by you know, owning
Speaker 1: that land. So in most you know cases in Burundi,
Speaker 1: when when the husband passed away, the sons you know
Speaker 1: get ownership of the land and then um in this case,
Speaker 1: if it doesn't have the sons, then you know, maybe
Speaker 1: the brother gets you know, ownership of the land. Um.
Speaker 1: So it's it's very it was very difficult for me
Speaker 1: growing up and actually seeing this, the fact that the
Speaker 1: women were the one who are doing all the work. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, in the background, but we're actually the one
Speaker 1: who have you know, no rights to anything, right. I
Speaker 1: think they always work is to really make this industry sustainable,
Speaker 1: um as much as possible. UM. I strive in my
Speaker 1: work and what I do with gently coffee to make
Speaker 1: it as sustainable as possible. The coffee that I'm trading
Speaker 1: today only focused on Burundi because it's what I believe
Speaker 1: that needs to be done and to be able to
Speaker 1: help my people. So in my in the ideal world
Speaker 1: for me is just look at the way to actually
Speaker 1: make this industry sustainable, uh, you know, encourage and bring
Speaker 1: the youth, you know along, empower women because when you
Speaker 1: empower women, more things can be done for the families
Speaker 1: and for the communities in my point of view, and
Speaker 1: what I had also experienced and also incentifies in quality
Speaker 1: and then pay the farmers the right price. And that's
Speaker 1: something that's it's very hard to be discussing about right
Speaker 1: now when the ce market is rounding one, you know,
Speaker 1: one one and wanting some change dollar um, you know,
Speaker 1: per pound. So it's very very hard and and most
Speaker 1: it actually don't even understand. Some people think that fur
Speaker 1: trade anything that says for a trade that's the best value.
Speaker 1: But actually fur trade is just like a few cents
Speaker 1: above the sea market. Uh. We always in our case,
Speaker 1: we always pay way above and beyond you know, for tress,
Speaker 1: So we don't even touch the fur trade part because
Speaker 1: we are already above and beyond the fur trade price
Speaker 1: are ours of today. Um, But I think that's really
Speaker 1: working hard to make sure that the farmers are being
Speaker 1: compensated right for the you know, the product that they
Speaker 1: work so hard for is extremely important. Is what I
Speaker 1: had a chance to actually see the you know, just
Speaker 1: a wide variety of amazing coffee that were produced from
Speaker 1: bund And and the potential really at that time for me,
Speaker 1: I realized the potential that you know, something willing to
Speaker 1: be done can be done with coffee to you know,
Speaker 1: even help the people bold even further. Absolutely, absolutely, I
Speaker 1: think it's very confusing with labeling. It's so frustrating to
Speaker 1: see a lot of well intentioned can sumers who want
Speaker 1: to do the right thing, but continue to support brands
Speaker 1: that really aren't worthy of that support because we've been
Speaker 1: trained to think that these labels are actually what we
Speaker 1: need to support full stop, and that's just not accurate.
Speaker 1: Is there more appropriate label? To signal to customers that
Speaker 1: this is a company that pays above fair trade or
Speaker 1: is there a way for us as consumers to try
Speaker 1: and support exporters and intermediaries like yourself who are more
Speaker 1: deeply invested in the well being of the workers. Basically,
Speaker 1: I'm just asking how can we be better coffee consumers? Actually,
Speaker 1: like you said, what the consumer don't understand? What's consumers
Speaker 1: just don't understand? And uh um And I'm not trying
Speaker 1: to put down for a trade. I think it's it's
Speaker 1: it's a starting point in my point of view, because
Speaker 1: I think it's a starting point of creating awareness. Um.
Speaker 1: So there's so many terminology of being used out there,
Speaker 1: like you know, direct trade, uh, you know, ethnically um,
Speaker 1: sourced um and so forth. But I think that's one
Speaker 1: just have to you know, to dig deeper, um in
Speaker 1: my point of view, like a for our company, you know,
Speaker 1: we you know, I'm from Burundi first and foremost, so
Speaker 1: I actually I owe my people by choice, you know,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't have to. You know, there are
Speaker 1: a lot of people from Bundy who have you know,
Speaker 1: who left the country and they're not not necessary go
Speaker 1: back um and to work in their own countries or
Speaker 1: do something for their own people. So I think there
Speaker 1: are some great companies out there who are doing the
Speaker 1: right thing. But it's a question about really getting educated
Speaker 1: and actually really doing your own research and trying to
Speaker 1: find out which one are doing what they said they
Speaker 1: are doing, and which one are aligned with your value
Speaker 1: and which one do you want to support, you know,
Speaker 1: for that same reason. So I was in graduate school
Speaker 1: UM here in the Bay Area, and who was setting
Speaker 1: intercultural studies just you know, I was very interested in
Speaker 1: and understanding the world and getting to find ways that
Speaker 1: I could make an impact in the in the world. Lord,
Speaker 1: I got a job, just like many people working uh
Speaker 1: in a cafe needed to have a part time job
Speaker 1: to pay for things. WHA, I was in school UM
Speaker 1: and there was another guy who was hired to work
Speaker 1: alongside of me around the same time, and both of
Speaker 1: us became friends that he was from Eritrea. The voice
Speaker 1: you just heard is that of Doug Hewitt. Doug is
Speaker 1: the owner and founder of nineteen fifty one Coffee in Berkeley, California,
Speaker 1: And he began to tell me his story of fleeing
Speaker 1: Irratree and why he had fled and fleeing into Sudan
Speaker 1: and making his way across the Sahara Desert into Libya
Speaker 1: and making his way across the Mediterranean. This whole long
Speaker 1: story before he finally was able to reach the United
Speaker 1: States to settle. Until those here and I had I
Speaker 1: had never heard a story like that before. This was
Speaker 1: in two thousand and seven, and it suddenly opened my
Speaker 1: mind up to a world that I didn't know much about.
Speaker 1: Beginning to know him and getting to know his community
Speaker 1: kind of introduced me to two refugees. One Coffee is
Speaker 1: a nonprofit specialty coffee organization that supports the Bay Area
Speaker 1: refugee and as Sili community through providing job training and
Speaker 1: employment opportunities. Yeah, so we we are a cafe. We
Speaker 1: actually have three cafes for a coffee company UM, and
Speaker 1: we also have a Barisa training programs that we operate
Speaker 1: to trains obviously trains people to be barista's UM. Potentially
Speaker 1: about twenty five of those people UM can work in
Speaker 1: our cafes and the positions that we have. But then
Speaker 1: we also have a network of other coffee companies here
Speaker 1: in the San Francisco Bay Area UM that will also
Speaker 1: hire our graduates. Because that was something in the process
Speaker 1: of creating our own cafes that we came across is
Speaker 1: here in these specialty coffee community in the Bay Area,
Speaker 1: there is a need for for barruss, there's a need
Speaker 1: for for workers and especially people who want to be
Speaker 1: in that industry and too so to make that a
Speaker 1: career UM. And so we kind of came across that
Speaker 1: were allis we were in in the right place and
Speaker 1: the right you know, the thing where we have an
Speaker 1: industry that is in need of people that want to
Speaker 1: be there and to be there for a while UM.
Speaker 1: And we also have this pool of people who are
Speaker 1: new to the country who are looking for a place
Speaker 1: to be in a place where they can put down
Speaker 1: roots and really start a career. We work at. The
Speaker 1: largest number of people that we that we work with
Speaker 1: are actually from er A Trea and East Africa. And
Speaker 1: if anyone knows anything about Ero Trea, they have a
Speaker 1: very close shared history UM with Ethiopia, which is Etia
Speaker 1: was the birthplace of coffee UM and has a very
Speaker 1: extensive coffee culture M and that is also shared with
Speaker 1: Erra Trea UM and so very often for Aerotrea and
Speaker 1: sitting down over a cup of coffee is not a five, ten,
Speaker 1: twenty minute or an hour experience. Very often it can
Speaker 1: be a three hour experience of intentionally roasting the coffee
Speaker 1: in front of your guest and sharing the experience of
Speaker 1: the aroma of the coffee as a rose, and then
Speaker 1: the making of the coffee and intentionally going through the
Speaker 1: three cups of coffee and going through, you know, a process.
Speaker 1: And so for you know, for us making a cup
Speaker 1: of coffee and being detailed in the process, to someone
Speaker 1: from ere A Tria that like, this is this is
Speaker 1: how you're supposed to doke coffee. Coffee is not something
Speaker 1: that you just drink, you know, on a limb when
Speaker 1: you're running the work like it is a process, it
Speaker 1: is a ceremony, um. And so I think, you know,
Speaker 1: very awesome. It's just it's finding those connecting points. Whether
Speaker 1: it's someone from ere A Trea who who understands the
Speaker 1: detail of coffee and the elegance of coffee and you know,
Speaker 1: at its core, um. But then with people who grew
Speaker 1: up in cultures you know, Afghanistan where the key and
Speaker 1: the use of saffron and things is you know, is
Speaker 1: also in that same way, it's a very high quality,
Speaker 1: high luxury thing. That's something that you you do when
Speaker 1: you are being hospitable towards your guests and finding those
Speaker 1: connecting points of each person in each culture to communicate
Speaker 1: that process, and you find it ultimately that idea of
Speaker 1: serving people well is a very universal thing. Fourth wave coffee,
Speaker 1: fair trade, fair wages. As is so often the case
Speaker 1: in the verbiage of sustainability, much of the language is
Speaker 1: lost in translation between who is being marketed to and
Speaker 1: who is being supported. The resources almost certainly end up
Speaker 1: directed towards the consumers and far less so towards those
Speaker 1: on the ground who create all of the value. And
Speaker 1: within that language, so much is communicated that goes beyond
Speaker 1: the words that are used. I'm thinking about the US
Speaker 1: political language and the difference between working class and poor
Speaker 1: sustainability and the kinds of brands who promoted and the
Speaker 1: places that purvey it. Further the gap not only between
Speaker 1: those who benefit and those who perpetuate, but also the
Speaker 1: gap between who is welcome and who isn't. Much of
Speaker 1: the work that we present is about reclamation, because we
Speaker 1: recognize the power of the kind of inclusion that moves
Speaker 1: beyond language and instead is rooted in the truth of
Speaker 1: one's own history. Knowing coffee comes from Africa and African
Speaker 1: people supersedes the superlatives that are used to sell coffee.
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that we should abandon earnest efforts of
Speaker 1: collective improvement. It just means that we should absorb that
Speaker 1: history and in doing so, whose language we prioritize. Reclaiming
Speaker 1: our stories closes the gap between producer and consumer and
Speaker 1: who gets to indulge versus who must labor, and particularly
Speaker 1: for specialty coffee, changes the images of the faces that
Speaker 1: we see when we think about ownership, leisure, knowledge and craft.
Speaker 1: We'd like to thank our guest today Kaba Conti of
Speaker 1: Red Bay Coffee in Fruitvale, California, to Janine jon Zuma
Speaker 1: a Rohan from j MP Coffee, and to all of
Speaker 1: the incredible women coffee farmers that she works with in Burundi.
Speaker 1: Thank you to Doug Hewitt of nineteen one Coffee in Oakland, California.
Speaker 1: You can learn more about this episode in our guest
Speaker 1: at wet Stone Magazine dot com, Backslash podcast, or on
Speaker 1: i G at wet Stone Magazine. We'll be back next
Speaker 1: week with our second to last episode of the season
Speaker 1: where we'll be talking about the morality of meat. I'm
Speaker 1: your host, Steven Siderfield. We'll see you back here next
Speaker 1: week with more from the world of food from around
Speaker 1: the world Peace. We'd also like to thank our incredible
Speaker 1: podcast producer Selene Glazier. Selene, you are the best. To
Speaker 1: our editor and wet Stone partner and director of video
Speaker 1: David Alexander in London. I appreciate you, Dave. Thanks to
Speaker 1: our wet Stone production intern Quentin Bow and last but
Speaker 1: not least, my business partner Mel She who makes all
Speaker 1: things at Whetstone possible. Thank you Mel. We'd also like
Speaker 1: to thank our partners and production at I Heart Radio
Speaker 1: to Gabrielle Collins, our supervising producer and executive producer Christopher Haciotis.
Speaker 1: We'll be back next week with more from the world
Speaker 1: of food worldwide. Point of Origin listeners, As you know,
Speaker 1: rating and reviewing our podcast is the very best way
Speaker 1: for more people to find out about our very important
Speaker 1: work at Whetstone, So please, if you're able, we would
Speaker 1: really appreciate a positive review in rating on Apple podcast
Speaker 1: that will help others like yourself find out about Point
Speaker 1: of Origin.