WEBVTT - The Dave Pasch Podcast - Kirk Herbstreit 0:00:03.600 --> 0:00:06.320 This week on The Day Pash podcast, we talked with 0:00:06.519 --> 0:00:10.600 multiple Emmy Award winning broadcaster and the face and voice 0:00:10.640 --> 0:00:14.400 of college football on ESPN and ABC, Kirk Herbstreet, who 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:18.120 never envisioned when he was playing quarterback at Ohio State 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:21.079 in the nineties then he would be where he is today, 0:00:21.440 --> 0:00:25.000 had no goals of, Hey, one day I'll go on 0:00:25.040 --> 0:00:28.160 TV or one day I'll work at ESPN. Nothing like that. 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:30.240 It just sounded like a fun job. I grew up 0:00:30.280 --> 0:00:32.600 listening to talk radio, and I thought that sounds like 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:35.600 a lot of fun. Herb Street, like me and many 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:40.200 other broadcasters, started in talk radio and coming up you'll 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:43.760 learn how Herb Street went from a very low paying 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:48.040 job to being one of the top announcers in all 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:50.879 of sports. Kirk's also going to talk about his new 0:00:50.920 --> 0:00:54.360 book Out of the Pocket, Football Fatherhood, and College Game 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:58.760 Day Saturdays. He'll discuss his relationship with his dad and 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:03.800 also how his parents divorce help shape him his relationship 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:07.000 with his dad on television Lee Corso that's something that 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:09.480 Kirk will dive into as well. Herb Street will also 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:11.639 talk about some of the things he loves about college 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:14.360 football right now and the twenty twenty one season and 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:17.080 also some of the things he doesn't like. Right now, 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:20.520 Kirk will get into the NFL, the Arizona Cardinals and 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:23.759 Kyler Murray. That's all coming up on the Dave Pash Podcast. 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:27.000 We are presented by bet MGM, the official sports betting 0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:30.720 partner of the Arizona Cardinals and Hila River Hotels and Casinos. 0:01:30.880 --> 0:01:34.319 You can also follow us on Twitter at pashpod. So 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:42.240 here he is ESPN ABC announcer Kirk Herbstreet Herbie, great 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:44.000 to talk to you, man, appreciate you doing this. I 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:46.280 definitely want to get into the book and spend some 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:49.320 considerable time there. But first give me your thoughts on 0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:52.640 the college football season so far. What stands out to 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:56.280 you the most through the first month of the season. Wow, 0:01:56.440 --> 0:01:59.200 I think it's the first time that it just feels 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:05.560 so open, you know, access feels open to conference championships, 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:11.160 to potential heavyweight bowl games, to the playoff. You know, 0:02:11.360 --> 0:02:15.360 we always talked about the possibility of the sport needing 0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:18.600 to expand the playoffs to keep more people interested. Because 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:22.720 it's a foregone conclusion that Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, maybe 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:26.399 a Georgia, maybe in Oklahoma and everybody else don't. Don't 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:28.919 worry about it. Sometimes that's how it feels, I think 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:32.240 for the fan bases, and you know, this year, it 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:35.640 just feels like everybody's vulnerable, you know, coming out of 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:38.280 the year of COVID last year, it feels like they're 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:42.000 they're really I mean, you could say Alabama's the best, 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:44.960 but they've got a old miss this week and that 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:49.240 could get sideways potentially in Georgia. They're gonna have some challenges, 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:52.120 including this weekend with Arkansas. So I don't know, it 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:55.440 just feels I like it. By the way, it feels 0:02:55.480 --> 0:02:57.960 like we've got we've got a lot more intrigued with 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:00.920 more and more upsets, more parody, and even a group 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:03.600 of five team like Cincinnati, you know, playing Notre Dame 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:06.919 this weekend, trying to throw their into the ring. So 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:10.040 I think it's been fun. Kirk, you have Georgia this week, 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:13.519 and I know you've been watching tape. It seems to me, 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:15.800 I mean, look, they've they've had great players for a 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:18.000 long time and especially recently, but it seems like they've 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:20.640 got more dudes than ever. Have you Is that stood 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:23.200 out to you when you're watching film? Yeah, I think 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:25.120 that the area is where you see it the most 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:27.919 number one depth at wide receiver. You know that that's 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:30.240 been an achilles heel of theirs. You know, they had 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:34.080 George Pickens and then kind of other guys. You know, 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:37.640 Kier's Jackson has come on last year in this year, 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:40.000 and Jermaine Burton. But I don't know. I just feel 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:43.640 with A. A. D. Mitchell and this young tight end 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:46.560 that they have Rock Bowers. They haven't even played their 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:49.200 starting tight end. He's been hurt Tony in Washington. It 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:53.000 just feels like they've got a better group there so 0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:56.400 they can rotate and stay fresh and stay fast. And 0:03:56.400 --> 0:04:01.160 then on defense they're just terrifying. I mean, Jordan Davis 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:05.200 gets a lot of the attention, but DeVante Wyatt you've 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:08.640 seen he's got ninety five and eighty eight. Jalen Carter, 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:12.080 he's a backup. He might be the most talented, most gifted, 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:14.360 Like five years from now and we're looking at this team, 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:18.479 the guy that might be crushing NFL quarterbacks is Carter. 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:22.320 So yeah, they're loaded. And one thing I noticed I 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:26.560 did their game Week one against Clemson. They've got a 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:31.279 good mix of veterans that are played and then a 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:35.000 wave of young or young as far as experience, but 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:37.080 just some guys that have a little bit of a 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:39.400 chip on their shoulder. They've had to pay their dues, 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:42.520 they had to sit behind Richard LeCount and others, you know, 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:44.520 in that secondary. A lot of those guys moved on 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:46.960 to the NFL and so they had to sit there 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:50.800 and wait. So they're playing with some urgencies. So I 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:53.640 think when you mix that whole thing up, this Georgia 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:57.640 defense has got a strong personality and a strong love 0:04:57.720 --> 0:05:00.160 for each other. And I think it's pretty evident when 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:02.880 you get around him. You just saw Spencer Rattler on 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:07.880 Saturday night. He's from here. I had them week one 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:09.760 when they kind of let two lane back in the 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:12.159 game and it got a little too close for comfort 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:14.159 there at the end, he was he was probably the 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:17.880 Heisman favorite coming in. Where do you see him now? 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:20.880 And who are some of the candidates. I know it's 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:22.840 you know, not even October, but who are some of 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:25.400 the candidates you think that'll be there at the end 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:27.960 for the Heisman. Well, first, I think we have to 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:31.480 just try to put in perspective what happened to him 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:33.720 as past Saturday. I mean, he like you said, he 0:05:34.040 --> 0:05:36.240 was a Heisman front runner, not for his team but 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:42.120 for the nation. And he's being booed off the field 0:05:42.160 --> 0:05:45.400 week four, and in fact, they were channing, you know, 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:48.520 we want Caleb, we want Caleb. The stands were meeting 0:05:48.600 --> 0:05:52.040 Caleb Williams, the backup quarterback. I don't know if I've 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:54.480 ever in all the years I've been covering the sport 0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:57.320 and playing the sport. I mean, you always hear, you know, 0:05:57.560 --> 0:05:59.680 from time to time you're gonna hear a backup quarterback's 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:04.039 name chant, But for a Heisman, preseason Heisman favorite, four 0:06:04.040 --> 0:06:08.479 weeks into a season hearing that, I think it's unprecedented. 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:10.839 I don't think I've ever ever seen anything like that, 0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:13.640 And it made me start to think a little bit. 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:17.720 In this era of name, image and likeness, how much 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:21.719 is this. It's a new world that we're in. And 0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:25.800 you're familiar with Spencer because he's from out there. I 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:28.719 think part of his deal for me after doing QB 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:31.760 one was he needed to grow up, he needed to mature. 0:06:32.040 --> 0:06:35.240 He'll tell you he has his teammates, his coaches will 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:38.640 tell you that, but he I think he is profited 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:42.600 the most off of anil and I just wonder, kind 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:43.960 of like in the world that you live in with 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:47.080 the Cardinals, it's a different kind of fan base. With 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:51.120 the NFL, they make money, they get booed, their high expectations. 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:54.240 I'm just wondering if we're starting to cross the line 0:06:54.880 --> 0:06:58.400 that it's no longer college kids and all that, but 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:02.520 now it's it's it's this nil. These guys are being 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:06.640 paid and their higher expectations, and if they don't produce, 0:07:07.320 --> 0:07:09.559 then they're going to feel the wrath of the fan base. 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:12.600 I don't know if we're going there, but it certainly 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:16.200 felt like that this past Saturday in Norman. And if 0:07:16.240 --> 0:07:20.440 you look at DJ at Clemson, he's got a lot 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:22.960 of nil. He's got a lot of pressure that he's 0:07:23.000 --> 0:07:25.960 dealing with. Look at the quarterback Sam Howe was another 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:29.680 one at North Carolina that was highly touted in the preseason. 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:33.440 I just think that in this era of coming off 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:36.720 the Summer Olympics with Smone Biles, where she started to 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:39.640 feel some anxiety and pressure to have to deliver and 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:43.720 almost live up to unrealistic expectations and it got the 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:46.360 best of her. I wonder if we're going to start 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:51.360 to see some of that in college football, especially at 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:56.520 that position where nil is the most likely going to be. 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:00.000 These quarterbacks are going to attract most of the opportunity. 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:02.600 These I just wonder if we're starting to see some 0:08:02.600 --> 0:08:05.080 some different things. But as far as to answer the question, 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:08.960 I think Bryce Young at Alabama's helping himself. He's kind 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:11.360 of been able to block out the noise. I'm kind 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:14.560 of looking down the road if JT. Daniels continues to 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:18.240 play well and Georgia keeps wedding, I think he's a 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:22.640 guy that definitely would be under consideration. And I think 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:25.560 my favorite as we sit here right now three or 0:08:25.600 --> 0:08:29.200 four weeks in, is Matt Carroll at Old Miss. You know, 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:33.040 I think he's playing well. He's in an offense where 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:37.800 he's going to put up astronomical numbers, and he's got 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:39.800 a little bit of an edge to him. I cannot 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:42.640 wait to see how they play this weekend against Alabama. 0:08:42.720 --> 0:08:43.960 I want to go back to what you said. I 0:08:43.960 --> 0:08:47.160 hadn't thought about what you said about the connection now 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:51.040 with nil and players making money, so that it's almost 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:54.200 like open season, that a fan now has the right 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:57.280 to do a college athlete where maybe before you wouldn't 0:08:57.280 --> 0:08:59.080 see that or certainly wouldn't see it this early in 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:02.240 the season on a team that's top five. That's a 0:09:02.280 --> 0:09:04.240 great point. I wonder if we're going to start seeing 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:08.520 more of that because we've crossed the line now. Look, 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:10.800 it's always been a business, but there's a line that's 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:14.880 been crossed, so now they're professionals as well as being 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:17.960 college athletes. And I also think that's a reason why 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:20.560 a lot of college coaches are looking to go to 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:23.360 the NFL. Look, you and I know Urban Meyer pretty well. 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:26.800 We just played Urban the other day. You know, Texas 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:29.640 comes after him. He doesn't take it. Why the NIL 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:31.559 is a big deal when it comes to you know, 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:35.079 it's not just the parents anymore. You got to recruit agents, basically, 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:37.360 and I don't think a lot of college coaches want 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:40.400 to do that anymore because now you're dealing with so 0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:43.200 much more on a daily basis. Is that something you 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:45.720 think we'll see from a coach's standpoint, where they start 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:48.880 more college coaches like Cliff and Matt Rule and Urban 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:52.439 start to look for the NFL. We'll have to see. 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:55.480 I know in talking to coaches, they're all very very 0:09:56.160 --> 0:10:00.240 concerned not just with NIL but transfer portal. You know, 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:04.160 there are coaches now that feel they have to try 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:08.200 to play guys just to try to keep them happy. Like, 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:11.120 when did we ever get into a world of college football, 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:13.719 big time college football where some of the not all, 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:16.360 some of the coaches, I don't want to say they're 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:20.200 walking on eggshells, but they're aware of their players, and 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:22.160 they're aware of they don't want their players to get 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:25.760 their feelings hurt. They don't want their players to get disgruntled. 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:28.000 What can I do to try to make this guy 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:30.360 happy even though he's not playing. We had a game 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:33.079 the other night for Ohio State was playing and one 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:36.320 of their linebackers, who evidently was upset with the amount 0:10:36.320 --> 0:10:39.000 of playing time he was receiving, got into a heated 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:42.480 exchange with the linebacker coach how Washington, and in the 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:45.400 middle of the game, he started to take off his 0:10:45.480 --> 0:10:51.000 equipment and then was escorted off the sideline through his equipment, 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:54.720 you know, into the locker, took a shower, left, tweeted 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:57.320 out some nasty you know things out of I'm sure 0:10:57.360 --> 0:11:01.120 of emotion and trustration, but it all stems um amount 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:05.280 of playing time. And that's a real thing, I guess 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:09.680 in twenty twenty one. That you imagine if I don't 0:11:09.679 --> 0:11:14.000 know Woody Hayes or Bear Bryan or any of these guys, 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:18.480 they never ever even thought about dealing with that. So 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:24.120 it is a different landscape. Um. I personally, after watching 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:26.520 a lot of this and being around all over the country, 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:29.480 I don't think I ever think we're in a time 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:33.200 where I would recruit the parents more than right now, 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:36.120 Like you got you got a kid, you're recruiting. I 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:39.719 would get to know what's the family, what's their motivation, 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:43.120 what kind of people are they, what kind of person 0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:46.280 is his kid? Does he love football? That's a rarity anymore, 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:50.760 he actually love football, you know, not not Instagram, not 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:55.360 the celebrity aspect, not the monetary aspect. But does he 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:58.400 love going to practice? Does he love his craft? I 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:02.280 would find kids that love football, and I would find 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:06.560 parents that want their kids to grow in every way 0:12:06.640 --> 0:12:09.160 and not just be told yes, yes, yes all the time. 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:11.720 So it's a different I don't think coaches are going 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:14.360 to leave immediately because the money is really good and 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:17.320 end of the day, the lifestyle is pretty good, but 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:20.800 they do need to be smart about building their program 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:24.120 and not feeling as if they have to be. You know, 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:26.439 whatever the player needs, we got to keep them happy. 0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:29.480 That's not the answer to this at all. And just 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:32.360 watch Nick Saban. You know, if Nick Saban gets sideways 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:34.800 with a player, he lets the player know. This is 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:37.280 the culture, this is the way I run my operation. 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:40.079 Either get on board or get the hell out of here. 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:44.440 You know, it's pretty simple. And guys don't cross Coach 0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:48.000 Saban because they fear the consequences. You've become the face 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:50.480 and voice of college football over the last twenty years, 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:53.840 certainly at ESPN. I'm curious, Kirk, when you left Ohio 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:56.720 State after playing quarterback there, and I remember you playing 0:12:56.800 --> 0:12:59.960 quarterback there because my sophomore year at Syracuse the first 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:02.680 college football game I ever did you probably remember the 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:05.240 game was at the Carrier Dome against Ohio State and 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:09.840 you were the quarterback. Did you ever envision when you're 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:12.079 playing at Ohio State. I don't know how much you 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:15.199 even thought about broadcasting back then, but did you imagine 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:19.760 at all your life turning out the way it has? No? No, 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:22.880 not at all. I was a business major at Ohio State, 0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:26.760 and you don't like any quarterback at a school you 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:29.200 hope to one day be able to play in the NFL, 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:32.360 and when that was not a reality, I just kind 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:35.240 of thought, Okay, I'll just try to go get a job. 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:37.360 And Ohio State was really good. They had a guy 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:41.439 there named Larry Romanov who helped people when they graduated 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:44.680 with contacts. And I did a couple of pharmaceutical sales 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:49.079 interviews and medical sales and Worthington Industries, and all those 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:51.520 interviews went really well, and I had second to third 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:54.160 in a couple cases and was about to accept just 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:58.200 a job in pharmaceutical sales. And I just, on my own, 0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:03.120 for whatever reasoned out to a local AM station in 0:14:03.240 --> 0:14:06.560 Columbus and said, hey, if you ever need me, you know, 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:08.760 being a former captain and player and loved it to 0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:11.640 help you guys out with your Higo State coverage. And 0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:13.760 they got back to me, you know, like a month later, 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:16.880 and said your timing is great. We're going to go 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:19.400 to an all sports format and we need a host 0:14:19.520 --> 0:14:22.280 and we'll pay you twelve thousand dollars and you're going 0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:25.840 to do a show in the afternoon drive with At 0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:28.160 that time, we called him the Voice of the Buckeys, 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:33.680 Terry Smith. He's now with the Anaheim Angels and I joined. 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:37.160 I passed up on what would be considered lucrative, more 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:40.840 traditional jobs which they were offered, and I just passed 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:44.200 on them to just had no goals of way, one 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:47.120 day I'll go on TV, or one day I'll work 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:49.720 at ESPN, nothing like that. It just sounded like a 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:52.080 fun job. I grew up listening to talk radio, and 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:54.560 I thought that sounds like a lot of fun. So 0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:59.720 I took the job for twelve thousand, no, no, four 0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:02.600 o K, nothing, just twelve thousand dollars, which to me, 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:04.440 I didn't come from any money, so it sounded like 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:08.200 pretty good money to me, and so I took it 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:13.720 and things just changed. That was summer of ninety three, 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:17.040 and I was at ESPN in the fall of ninety 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:21.040 five as a sideline reporter. My first fall there. I 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:24.160 don't remember you doing sidelines. I don't, so that's how 0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:27.720 you started. And then how did college Game Day come about? Well? 0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:32.040 I worked with Todd Christiansen. He was my analyst when 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:35.480 I was a sideline reporter. Dwayne Stats, who was a 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:39.440 baseball guy. He was the play by play guy that 0:15:39.760 --> 0:15:42.880 I worked with, and we we we started on a 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:46.640 new station called ESPN two, and so we would be, 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:49.400 you know, in the Mountain West. You know, I was 0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:51.640 on the sidelines one time on on the sidelines at 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:54.960 Fort Collins and Urban Meyer who recruited me when he 0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:57.160 was at Ohio State as a GA. He's a receiver 0:15:57.280 --> 0:15:59.400 coach for Earl Bruce and he sees me, He's like, 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:01.480 what the heck are you doing over here? You know, 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:06.040 how are you in Fort Collins? And we just we 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:09.080 always kid about that, but yeah, it was cool. It 0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:11.680 was cool just to kind of learn the business and 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:14.160 the good and the bad and had a really bad 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:18.800 producer that made my life miserable and surprised. You know, 0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:20.960 you look back at that time that I stuck with 0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:24.480 it based on that that experience that year. But anyway, 0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:28.520 after that season got named Moe Davenport asked me to 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:31.640 do arena football and be the color analysts, just to 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:35.600 see if I could do games. And Todd Christensen was 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:38.360 going to do play by play and he was an analyst. 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:40.840 Gonna try try and play by play. So we did 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:45.960 an arena football year the spring summer of ninety five 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:50.080 or ninety six, and some guy named Kurt Warner was 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:54.200 the the quarterback for the Iowa Barnstormers, who ended up 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:56.720 becoming the MVP of the of the It was the 0:16:57.040 --> 0:16:59.440 season that year, and ironically they're making a movie out 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:02.360 of his life. And that year was my year being 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:04.840 around arena football. So I was in Des Moines, Iowa 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:08.520 almost like every other week, called Kurt Warner's games. That 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:10.600 little did I know what he would become, you know, 0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:13.320 with the rams and what a future Hall of Fame 0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:16.280 career he had. And during the middle of that year, 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:20.440 I got another call. Craig James had left game day 0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:24.679 to go to CBS and they said, literally, Devenport told me, 0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:27.320 you're not going to get the job, but at this 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:29.920 early stage of your career, it'd be really good experience 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:32.320 for you to go through the audition that we're going 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:34.520 to have for you and a few other people, and 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:37.120 we're gonna fly in Fowler and Courso and just see 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:40.119 how it goes. And so I flew in in the 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:42.320 middle of I was, like I said, in the middle 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:44.959 of my arena seasons. I flew in and did the 0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:48.359 audition and sweated bullets through it. I was terrified. I 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:51.000 was like twenty four, twenty five years old. I was 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:54.360 so scared sitting next to Lee and Chris and they 0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:56.960 did the whole theme music. We did like a fake segment, 0:17:58.040 --> 0:18:01.399 and that was it. I left and went back on 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:04.560 the roads do an arena football. And a month or 0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:07.840 two later, my agent called me and said that I 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:11.320 think Howard Katz saw something with Lee and I and 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:14.440 he wanted to take a just take a chance and 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:19.200 hire me over the other people that were applying for it. 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:22.560 And that was it. That was in the summer of 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:25.800 ninety six, and then I started that fall fall of 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:29.560 ninety six. So it seems like seven or eight years ago. 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:32.800 I can't believe it was. Whatever it is twenty six 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:35.400 years ago. So we're going to dive into the book 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:37.760 here out of the Pocket Football Fatherhood and college Game 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:42.199 Base Saturdays, and I'm curious what inspired you to write it. 0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:44.399 But let's go back one second, because I wasn't going 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:46.400 to ask you because I had no idea that you'd 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:49.520 covered arena football. Kurt was actually the first guest on 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:52.760 this podcast. Now cool. Yeah, known Kurt for a while, 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:55.600 obviously spent time here, and we had him on for 0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:57.840 an hour, could have had him on for two. Just 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:01.280 so many great stories. Was there anything can you think back, 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:04.640 was there anything that stood out to you that year? 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:07.760 I mean, did you have a sense at all about 0:19:07.760 --> 0:19:10.639 where things could go for him? Did you meet with 0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:13.720 him back? He Yeah, we met with him. He was 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:17.960 so classy and so down to earth, and you know, 0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:19.640 the whole story of him being out of the game 0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:23.080 and then getting that opportunity and the NFL game was 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:26.360 so different. You know, what Mike Martz did was just 0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:29.720 so it was just a game changer. It was hard 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:33.760 to envision a guy playing arena football would be able 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:37.080 to go and play in the NFL in that era. 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:39.919 It just wasn't done. By the way, we were in 0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:41.600 Phoenix all the time. There was a guy named Hunky 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:44.600 Cooper was on the team, and I think it was 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:47.200 a rattler switch the name of their team, and we 0:19:47.200 --> 0:19:49.639 were it was used to be called the America West Arena, 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:51.439 and we'd go in there and they're fan base, they 0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:53.800 loved it. I think Danny White might have been the 0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:58.240 if I remember right. Danny White, the old Cowboys quarterback, 0:19:58.280 --> 0:20:01.600 I think was the coach. But it was fun. We'd 0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:05.280 go in there and they would get fired up. But yeah, 0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:09.680 I just remember him being this really hard working, blue 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:13.879 collar kind of guy, just appreciative of the opportunity. And 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:16.600 I don't know if even he thought that the NFL 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:19.880 was in his future at that time. Before he made 0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:23.919 that transition, guys would get like tryouts in the NFL, 0:20:24.119 --> 0:20:26.639 but almost all of them maybe made it, like to 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:29.720 the practice squad and then come back to the arena game. 0:20:30.160 --> 0:20:33.520 So it was it was very unheard of to imagine, 0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:38.840 especially a quarterback, getting an opportunity and then taking advantage 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:41.320 of it the way he did so out of the 0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:46.040 pocket football fatherhood and college game day Saturdays. Kirk, what 0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:51.560 inspired you to write it and why now? Well, Gen Wojahowski, 0:20:51.680 --> 0:20:54.639 who's a colleague of yours in mind at ESPN, he 0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:57.520 approached me. He's approached me a couple of times about 0:20:57.640 --> 0:21:00.480 the idea of writing a book and never holding this, 0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:03.280 but I just didn't really feel like I had anything 0:21:03.520 --> 0:21:07.520 to say that people would want to read about, so 0:21:07.560 --> 0:21:10.439 I just have always just said, ah, maybe later, you know, 0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:15.520 maybe when I retire. And then he approached me April 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:19.399 of twenty twenty, right in the middle of COVID and quarantine, 0:21:19.480 --> 0:21:21.119 back in the time when people were like wiping the 0:21:21.240 --> 0:21:23.480 groceries down and just we didn't know where we were 0:21:23.480 --> 0:21:27.760 as a country, and I just thought it was maybe 0:21:27.760 --> 0:21:30.359 a good time to reflect and a good time to 0:21:31.840 --> 0:21:35.679 just think about some things that I've compartmentalized, you know, 0:21:35.720 --> 0:21:40.800 on a personal level for over forty years and didn't 0:21:40.800 --> 0:21:44.399 really know what we were going to get into. I 0:21:44.440 --> 0:21:48.359 wanted to do more than just football and broadcasting, you know. 0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:50.840 I wanted to kind of talk a little bit about 0:21:51.760 --> 0:21:55.359 stuff I had been through that probably unless you write 0:21:55.359 --> 0:21:57.960