1 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to She Pivots. I'm your host to Emily Tish Sussman. 2 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: One of my goals in starting this podcast is to 3 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: highlight voices and stories of women who went through something 4 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: deeply personal, only to come out of it on the 5 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:22,120 Speaker 1: other side better than they could have imagined. After launching 6 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: She Pivots last year, it's clear it's not a small group. 7 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 1: This applies to most women, whether it's a big pivot 8 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: or even just a tiny pivot. What's clear is there's 9 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: still a lot of unpacking to do around pivoting. So 10 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:38,160 Speaker 1: as we're continuing to build this platform and community through 11 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 1: new episodes, I wanted to also bring you more stories, 12 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: unfiltered and honest. So I'll be sitting down with more women, 13 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: maybe the occasional man, some of whom have mastered their 14 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:53,959 Speaker 1: own pivot, some are just starting the pivoting journey. Are 15 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: some just have something to teach us about the deeply 16 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 1: personal moments of life. So stay tuned for more of 17 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: the candid conversation this season. 18 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 2: Let's jump right in. 19 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:09,839 Speaker 1: This conversation today is probably one of the most substantive 20 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: that I'm going to have on this podcast about what 21 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: it means to pivot and what it means for your 22 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: identity when you're doing all of that, because this is 23 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: the expert in this field as it is evolving right now, 24 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: the founder and I guess principle of mother untitled Neha 25 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 1: Rush Neha. 26 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:31,399 Speaker 2: Let me just formally welcome. 27 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:33,039 Speaker 3: You to she Pivots. Thank you. 28 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: So we were just chatting a little bit about how 29 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: we met, and I'm going to give it to you 30 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:38,320 Speaker 1: to recount. 31 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 3: You had just run that fabulous piece for she knows 32 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 3: that my kids killed my career, and not one but 33 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 3: like fifty people sent it to me, but to it 34 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 3: in particular, said like, you two must meet, and I 35 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 3: feel like we made that happen within thirty seconds. 36 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like I had the flip side of it. 37 00:01:57,680 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: As soon as I wrote the article, people were like, 38 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 1: but you must have gotten this from Neha, and I 39 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:03,559 Speaker 1: was like, tell me more about Neha. 40 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 2: I'd love to meet her. So how did you start it? 41 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 3: So when I had my first son in twenty sixteen, 42 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 3: he was born New Year's Day and it was at 43 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 3: the height of the Girl Boss era. Leanin had been 44 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:24,639 Speaker 3: the rallying cry of my business school graduation and yet 45 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 3: when I was rocking in that chair with him, I 46 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 3: felt the sense of contentment and belonging that I had 47 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 3: been looking for. I'm not going to paint that with 48 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 3: like rose colored lenses and say like I wasn't leaking 49 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 3: milk and like sleep deprived. But I did find something 50 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 3: I'd been looking for and lacking in my career to 51 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 3: that point. And I, you know, spent a decade in advertising. 52 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:46,920 Speaker 3: I'd just gotten my MBA. The expectations were high on 53 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 3: my like very linear career track. But I sat at 54 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 3: that point that I wanted to downshift, and I started 55 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 3: to come face to face with like all the societal 56 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 3: stigma that comes with the quote unquote stay at home mother. Right, 57 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 3: So I started hearing like, ugh, you took a spot 58 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 3: at Stanford, Like you took that spot just to stay 59 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:10,079 Speaker 3: at home, and or like what are you going to 60 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 3: do all day? All of the perceptions that you assume 61 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:18,239 Speaker 3: with choosing to focus your life on caregiving for a chapter. 62 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 3: And meanwhile, on the opposite like days when I wasn't 63 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 3: still consulting because I initially downshifted, I was meeting all 64 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 3: these incredible women who were the women you assume like 65 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 3: they were in New York. They'd built huge, wonderful, meaningful careers, 66 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 3: and we're saying, you know what, I want to take 67 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 3: a thoughtful pause and make room for family life for 68 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 3: a moment, or I really trust my career to date, 69 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 3: and I'm going to start to freelance or consult just 70 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 3: to build in some more flexibility. And none of it 71 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 3: matched this caricature that I was being served up of 72 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 3: the stay at home mom. And I was looking around 73 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 3: and there was a ton of traditional content around the 74 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 3: working monther quote unquote, but everything had abandoned the stay 75 00:03:57,600 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 3: at home mother in the nineteen fifties. 76 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: But did you did you really feel like there were 77 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: professional women even in twenty sixteen. I'm not talking like 78 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: fifteen years ago, but that many years ago that were 79 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: openly saying I'm looking to take some kind of down 80 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 1: shift for personal reasons. 81 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 3: Yes, because I didn't feel like I heard that. 82 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 1: Maybe it was because I was in Washington and in 83 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:22,679 Speaker 1: politics and you were You didn't exist if you didn't 84 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: work in mean people that worked in different industries that 85 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:27,480 Speaker 1: live in Washington were like, yes, I was. What did 86 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: my friend referre to himself as he said he was 87 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 1: like mister cellophane in Chicago like everyone just like looked 88 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: right through Hi because he wasn't important in politics. But 89 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: so I felt like I didn't necessarily hear people acknowledging 90 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 1: that you did hear it. 91 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 3: I did, but you had to stop to listen to 92 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 3: hear it because it was layered with a little bit 93 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 3: of shame yet a little bit, but it was masked, 94 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 3: I mean. And by the way, like one of my 95 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 3: favorite anecdotes is I was sitting at a dinner and 96 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 3: there was a woman I knew who worked two days 97 00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 3: a week, and I worked two days a week at 98 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 3: that time, I identified with being on a posit or 99 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 3: a downshift, and she was like, no, I'm a full 100 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 3: time working mother. And it was and I was looking 101 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 3: at her and thinking, we work the exact same amount, 102 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 3: and we're at home the exact same amount. But there 103 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 3: was a sort of veil of and I wouldn't say 104 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 3: that she was intentionally masquading, which you know, her version 105 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 3: of balance. It was she identified and didn't she identified 106 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:26,359 Speaker 3: with working out of the home, and she did not 107 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 3: want identify with any sense of slowing down. 108 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, I hear it is that she didn't want to 109 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 1: lose that like the privilege of that identity, yes, of 110 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: being a working out of home person person but whether 111 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:40,479 Speaker 1: it was mother or not mother, but like a out 112 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:42,359 Speaker 1: of home working person, she didn't want to lose the 113 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 1: privilege of that identity. 114 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:48,159 Speaker 3: Yes. And so the short answer is there were incredible 115 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 3: numbers of women who were already making room for family life. 116 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 3: And what I will tell you also is what I 117 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 3: was looking at was, if you go back to twenty sixteen, 118 00:05:56,279 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 3: Pew Research was already saying this generation of women identify 119 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 3: with motherhood more. There was a rise of flex work 120 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 3: right like the wing work WRK, the flexible work marketplace, 121 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 3: it was all on the rise. So I was looking 122 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 3: at it saying, like, you're going to see an increasing 123 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:17,040 Speaker 3: population of women who have the access to be able 124 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 3: to create a career on their own terms, and an 125 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:23,359 Speaker 3: increasing number of women who want to make rim for 126 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 3: other priorities for a period of time. And so you know, 127 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 3: I think a lot of it was the moment in 128 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,599 Speaker 3: time in twenty sixteen was it was this perfect collision 129 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 3: of like me wanting my own space where I could 130 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 3: start to string together a collective of women who are 131 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 3: reshaping the narrative for my own sake to say, like, wait, 132 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 3: there's like an incredible cohort of women that I belonged to, 133 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 3: and also feeling like there was a dearth of any 134 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:53,160 Speaker 3: representation of anything that was beyond the prototypical. 135 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 1: Yeah that wasn't like the black and white Yes, the 136 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: working not working. 137 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 3: You know. 138 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: It's interesting over the course of doing the interviews and 139 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 1: doing this show is that I anticipated that two points 140 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 1: would be common that I would hear as like the 141 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: intervening life event, like the personal thing that changed your perspective. 142 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 1: I anticipated it being one having kids whenever you had them, 143 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 1: although I do I definitely don't have exclusively mothers on 144 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: the show, and the other being the pandemic as being 145 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 1: things that really reshaped people's perspective in their lives. 146 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 3: And what has surprised us as. 147 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: We go through these interviews is more likely it's actually 148 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen and the election, the surprise that people felt 149 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 1: in the election of Donald Trump and what they thought 150 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: that meant for their own identities as women working out 151 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: of home or not, and the country's perception like what 152 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 1: was acceptable you happened to have had your son in 153 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, which I also did, Was that a factor 154 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: in it for you? 155 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,239 Speaker 2: At all, I've just heard that from so many guests. 156 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: Do you think that, I don't know, change your perspective, 157 00:07:57,760 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: but added to the perspective that you were as you 158 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: were thinking about your change and identity. 159 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 3: That's such an interesting part of it. I think that 160 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 3: now you said that, and I've remembered this picture I 161 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 3: have of my three best friends from home. So I'm 162 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 3: really close to my friends from home, and they had 163 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 3: all come. I was the first to have a child, 164 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 3: and we have a picture of Bodie I'd brought like 165 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 3: American flag balloons. We thought we were electing the first female, 166 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 3: right yeah, And that was what we really believed, sitting 167 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 3: in life the New York City Echo Chamber, and in 168 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 3: that moment, I remember feeling the most feminist I'd ever felt. 169 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,679 Speaker 3: And you know so much of Mother entitled When we 170 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 3: parse around where do the stigmas exist around quote unquote 171 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 3: stay at home mother, one of them is around if 172 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 3: you choose this, choose to pause, you are an anti feminist, 173 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 3: which is obviously like a trope that we want to upend. 174 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:51,959 Speaker 3: Whereas I was feeling the most connected to women that 175 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:55,839 Speaker 3: I'd ever felt. And I think that to your point 176 00:08:56,040 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 3: twenty sixteen was a feeling of banning to get other, 177 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 3: wanting to do our part, believing so much so that 178 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 3: my feminism was not dictated by whether I was working 179 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 3: out of the home or in the home, but because 180 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 3: I was part of this collective, collective voice advocating for 181 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:16,560 Speaker 3: what felt right for us and our families at the time. 182 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 3: And I do think that collective power in twenty sixteen 183 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 3: probably did help shape that that sense of wanting to 184 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 3: be a part of it, wanting to explore it and 185 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 3: pull the threads apart. 186 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,320 Speaker 1: I mean, you make a good point about what I 187 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 1: considered to be feminism right now, I think as compared 188 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:35,320 Speaker 1: to what we had been taught as kids. And I 189 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: think the way that our parents thought about feminism is 190 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: that I just think generationally, I just think it's the 191 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: way it had to happen. I don't know that it 192 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: could have happened another way. Maybe it could have, I 193 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: don't know. But the way that women went to work 194 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: out of home was to emulate men, and so they 195 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 1: couldn't show up in the workplace as anything other than 196 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 1: I am showing up essentially as a man in a workplace. 197 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:03,199 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yes, And you know, if you really go back 198 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 3: to the history, because as I've been writing the book, 199 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 3: it's been really interesting delving into it more of the 200 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 3: origins of like first wave, second wave, third wave feminism. 201 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 3: Women went into the workforce really during the World War 202 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 3: to just fill the slots, and then it just exposed this, 203 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,599 Speaker 3: wait a second, we want to like stay in the workforce. 204 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 3: Except at the same time there was this incredible push 205 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 3: around advertising and the advent of television. We started to 206 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 3: see these ads depicting the woman at home wearing heels, 207 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 3: pushing a vacuum around. And what emerged was this like 208 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 3: huge chasm, this power chasm between the woman in the 209 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 3: workplace making money and the woman like teetering around in 210 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 3: heels like serving up her like cocktails at the end 211 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 3: of the day. And that power chasm never went away. 212 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:51,680 Speaker 3: And you know, the media really invented the mommy wars, 213 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 3: like just because like media loves a moment where they 214 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 3: can like pit two sides against each other, and so 215 00:10:57,559 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 3: the mommy wars were like invented over the course of 216 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 3: the eighties, and we created this power chasm that really 217 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 3: like obviously had to close over the years because so 218 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 3: much changed. Women had access to digital learning, so that 219 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 3: they're able to like keep their hand in the game. 220 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 3: They were like getting married and having kids much later, 221 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 3: so their decrued education and work experience. None of the 222 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:25,679 Speaker 3: fictions around that, like ad with the woman pushing the 223 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 3: vacuum in heels, actually existed, and yet we sort of 224 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 3: inherited it and brought it with us and like perpetuated 225 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:36,320 Speaker 3: the idea of what was feminist and what was not right. 226 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, and now I feel like my acceptance, like my 227 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: version of feminism is just to say, like, do what 228 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: makes you happy. Like, not everyone's going to have the 229 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 1: same model. In fact, nobody can have the same model 230 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 1: as anybody else. But I actually don't think that the 231 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: generation above us has an easy time accepting that because 232 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: it wasn't the way for them. 233 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:01,680 Speaker 3: No, And I think that that version feminism had to exist, right, 234 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 3: like second wave feminism has to exist to push women, 235 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 3: you know, into a place of being respected for their 236 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 3: contributions and their value in the workforce and the ability 237 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 3: to advocate for equal play like all of that stuff that, 238 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 3: by the way, is still we still need all of that. 239 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 3: And so I think the generation prior would say, we 240 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 3: aren't done. We're not done with that. Why are we 241 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 3: like pushing choice feminism now is it going to unwind this? 242 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 3: And I think what's interesting about feminism today is I 243 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 3: don't think it's just about yes, we want the choice 244 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:37,320 Speaker 3: and like we should all do whatever makes us happy 245 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 3: and strong and all the things we're advocating for the 246 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 3: supports to be able to set us up for success 247 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 3: on feminine terms, right, it's recognizing that we can't like 248 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:54,239 Speaker 3: we do birth children. Our bodies are actually constructed differently, 249 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 3: and so the workforce and or like the way in 250 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 3: which we approach work family has to align with the 251 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 3: realities of what it means to be a woman, which 252 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 3: means taking a closer look at what that is right. 253 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 3: And so it's interesting because some of them when I 254 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 3: first launched Mother Untitled, I did feel like a lot 255 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 3: of women perceived what I was doing as in some 256 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 3: ways traditionalist, when by no means, first of all, let 257 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 3: me just say, like, I don't actually think choosing to 258 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 3: pause or downshift your career at any point is the 259 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 3: right thing for children and or the right thing for families. 260 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 3: I think it was the right thing for me in 261 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 3: that moment, and I think many women either because they 262 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 3: can't offset the cost of child care and or because 263 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 3: they actually want to be at home for a period 264 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:39,079 Speaker 3: of time, that is the right choice for them because 265 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 3: it works for their families. But it's not. You know, 266 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 3: there's proven successful outcomes for children and families no matter what, 267 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 3: whether you're working in the home or out of the 268 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 3: home or existing in between. But when I started, I 269 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 3: think a big thought was, well, she's encouraging women to pause, 270 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 3: And what I would say is no, I'm trying to 271 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:59,439 Speaker 3: create a narrative wherein if women choose to pause or downshift, 272 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 3: if they they do step out of the traditional workforce 273 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 3: for a period of time, they're not only respected and 274 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 3: valued for the contribution in the home, but they're not 275 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:10,840 Speaker 3: seen as their brain dying. So that when and if 276 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 3: they choose to go back, which ninety percent of women 277 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 3: do and aim to do, when and if they choose 278 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 3: to go back, they have an easier time entering because 279 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 3: they're not ritteno off and counted out as like shriveling 280 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 3: and like their homes. 281 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so funny you put that language saying to it, 282 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: saying that it was seen as traditionalists because even though 283 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: I was basically launching like a corollary concept. 284 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 3: I think at. 285 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: First I also saw it as traditionalist, and I was like, 286 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: but wait, I want to talk about the workplace. And 287 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: I think it was because I had such a hard 288 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: time seeing myself. I think it's why identified with that 289 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 1: story you were saying about the woman who couldn't see 290 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 1: herself as not working. I couldn't see myself outside an 291 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: identity as not a working person. And it had nothing 292 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 1: to do with being a mother or not. I didn't 293 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: necessarily want to be like a working mom. 294 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 2: I just couldn't. 295 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 1: It was too hard for me to accept my identity 296 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 1: as anything other than a working person, and so no 297 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 1: matter how much I was working, it was hard for 298 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: me to give the same And I think I probably 299 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 1: still struggle with this, but to give the same level 300 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: of acknowledgment of like the work that goes in if 301 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: someone is not doing any work outside the home and 302 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: in any way like whether it's a little bit part 303 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 1: time or full time. 304 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 2: But I think I still struggle with that. 305 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: I think it's so ingrained in my identity that the 306 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: place that I find value is whether the work product 307 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: that I create in work outside the home is valuable. Yes, 308 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 1: it's so ingrained in me that it's very hard to 309 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: view myself in terms of success, like being successful in 310 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 1: any other way. 311 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 3: I think it's the single biggest stumbling block for women 312 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 3: when they choose to part with the linear career your track, 313 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 3: even if they're not identifying with taking a full pause 314 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 3: to be at home, like, even if they're doing anything 315 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 3: apart from the linear career track that they were on. 316 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 3: It's this idea of so much self worth is tied 317 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 3: to our salary and our titles. And I mean that's 318 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 3: the thesis around untitled with mother Untitled is this idea 319 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 3: that when you step into this untitled chapter, we part 320 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 3: with a lot of the ego and the identity derived 321 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 3: from career ascension. And what does that feel like to 322 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 3: exist in the vastness of the untitled space? Right? And 323 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 3: by the way, the other part of that is the 324 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 3: other part of untitled is the dismantling between the antiquated 325 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 3: titles of stay at home and working mother right, and 326 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 3: so stay at home you can understand why we would 327 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 3: champion to start to blow the edges around that because 328 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 3: it's so black and white, it comes with so many 329 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 3: societal trips. But working muther right when you so closely 330 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 3: ident What I'm hearing from you is you so closely 331 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 3: hold on to like I am a working mother, that 332 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 3: anything that is not that or that is working in 333 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 3: other ways, whether you're volunteering or whether you're working in 334 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 3: the home, feels antithetical as opposed to just part of 335 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 3: an expansive identity. Yeah. Right, And I think that that 336 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 3: is the really the opportunity for women right now is 337 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 3: to exist in the gray, is to exist in that 338 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 3: mast in between and say that way you're you're not 339 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:20,920 Speaker 3: confined to worth and success in one format, and your 340 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:23,680 Speaker 3: options are open so that you can sort of tap 341 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:25,399 Speaker 3: into what you need to make room for in that 342 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 3: moment in time without penalty on the other side, Right, I. 343 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 1: Think it's so they're so complimentary, like what you're doing 344 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 1: and what we're doing with she Pivots, I always look 345 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:37,680 Speaker 1: I respect your work so much, and I always look 346 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 1: at them as being sort of like two sides of 347 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 1: the same coin. Like I feel like what we're trying 348 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 1: to do with she Pivots is to tell the stories 349 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 1: about the personal events that happens to someone that changes 350 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: their perspective so that they can then find a different 351 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 1: thing they create, whether it's a career, whether it's a 352 00:17:57,119 --> 00:18:00,400 Speaker 1: business like whatever, maybe it's happiness in the same thing, 353 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: but changing their perspective due to personal reasons and then 354 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 1: finding something professional that comes out of it, like changing 355 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:11,119 Speaker 1: that narrative around that. 356 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 3: And I feel like you are really sitting. 357 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 1: In that place, like in that moment of the change, 358 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:20,119 Speaker 1: and specifically for mothers in the child here, and I 359 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: think that there's a lot of debate around like, you know, 360 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 1: should we have should we just talk about parenthood, should 361 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 1: you talk about motherhood? Did we just talk about women 362 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: in general? I get that a lot. We just did 363 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 1: our first heap pivots, but you know, really, oh yes, 364 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 1: it was our very first. 365 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 3: Which is a gift, by the way, for men, I 366 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,360 Speaker 3: think the men need that permission. By the way, there's 367 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 3: a rising stat around men choosing to positive careers. But 368 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 3: I think men unfortunately are you know, feeling limited sometimes 369 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:50,959 Speaker 3: by the expectations of what that role is supposed to 370 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 3: include being a male partner in a family, in a 371 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 3: two parent households right, And so then when men find 372 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 3: themselves at career junctures that we have a lot of 373 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 3: discourse around, they don't have the same resources and conversation 374 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:05,879 Speaker 3: and I think that is one of the privileges of 375 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 3: being a woman is that we talk a lot, especially 376 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 3: I I mean, like we like to talk. 377 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, we could do the show, maybe make it like 378 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,920 Speaker 1: a twenty four hour talk, then we could go all day. 379 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:18,920 Speaker 3: But I do think, like I think about for the 380 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:21,199 Speaker 3: male at home parent right now, there are you know, 381 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:23,639 Speaker 3: at least women who choose to pause or take a 382 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 3: non linear path half your podcast. They have mother untitled 383 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 3: that there's an absence of that. So I'm glad that 384 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 3: you're doing my heap pivots. I totally agree. 385 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 1: I think that even what I'm seeing, I feel like 386 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:38,879 Speaker 1: most people I know who had kids like pandemic on 387 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 1: like in the last three years are gay men. Is 388 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 1: most of the parents that I know, and of new 389 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 1: parents that I know, and of the parents that I 390 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 1: see of kids that are sort of school age when 391 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:52,879 Speaker 1: parents are starting to kind of like group off and 392 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 1: like make plans, I find it hard for I think 393 00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: the gay dads in particular to find their pla because 394 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,639 Speaker 1: they just sort of don't naturally fall into any of 395 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:07,919 Speaker 1: the like very hetero categories of like the way that 396 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:09,919 Speaker 1: families tend to group. And so I think we do 397 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 1: need to be intentional about this, And I actually try 398 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 1: to talk about every time we have these like parenting talks, 399 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,399 Speaker 1: but like think about the makeup of the parents in 400 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 1: your class, like how they naturally have these random encounters 401 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: and like you know, how they'd get included. But you know, 402 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 1: a part of the reason that I decided to only 403 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 1: have women on sheep Pivots and even call it sheep 404 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 1: Pivots well after I got the seasoned desist order, but 405 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,679 Speaker 1: then there was an intentional reason after that, and I 406 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,200 Speaker 1: thought I actually wasn't giving up that much, Like, yes, 407 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: men need it, but I actually don't think men are 408 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 1: evolved enough right now to be able to have a 409 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:45,400 Speaker 1: really thoughtful conversation about where they feel included excluded, how 410 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 1: they think about their identities. Like I think most male 411 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 1: conversations right now would unfortunately be a little bit too stunted. 412 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 1: It would be like a real short podcast. So hopefully 413 00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 1: season ten of she Pivots is maybe it's a full 414 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:01,399 Speaker 1: he pivots. 415 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 2: I don't know. 416 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 1: Here's new ideas, because I agree with you the world 417 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: needs it. The way that I ended up attacking it 418 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,639 Speaker 1: was by another article that I wrote called sensitive is 419 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:15,640 Speaker 1: the New strong thinking about raising our sons and looking 420 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,639 Speaker 1: at it from that perspective, Like we're always talking about 421 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 1: you know, we've had these ideas that we need to 422 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:26,920 Speaker 1: especially if a child, but especially a son, is showing sensitivity, 423 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 1: then we have to show them how to overcome that sensitivity. 424 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: But I want my son to see his sensitivity as 425 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,239 Speaker 1: an attribute. Yes, yes, And then I think we can 426 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 1: start to have a generation of men that will be 427 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:41,399 Speaker 1: thinking about talking about their feelings, how they see their identities. 428 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:44,720 Speaker 1: But like, we're of a generation right now like parenting 429 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 1: young kids, like we can build them up from scratch, 430 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 1: we have huge opportunity. 431 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:52,639 Speaker 3: You know, as you're talking, I'm reminded of one of 432 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 3: the biggest differentiators of our generation of parents is just 433 00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:01,640 Speaker 3: the intellectual nature of parenting today. Right, Like we talk 434 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 3: a lot about the impact if you do nothing else 435 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:07,399 Speaker 3: and you're focused on raising your children right now and 436 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 3: bringing love and care to that, you know, you're raising 437 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:12,119 Speaker 3: the love generation. And I think that a lot of 438 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,639 Speaker 3: the women that make up our community are very intentional, 439 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,639 Speaker 3: very conscious parents. Who really I mean is there is 440 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 3: such a wealth of information, maybe too much information around 441 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 3: parenting and this is the first generation of parents that 442 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:28,719 Speaker 3: have been exposed to that and are taking that in 443 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 3: And whether you're focused on nutrition or you're focused on 444 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,879 Speaker 3: gentle parenting or respectful parenting, that is a level of 445 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 3: intellectuality that is that is unparalleled with any other generation. 446 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:43,880 Speaker 3: And so it's both impactful and it's a lot more 447 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:45,879 Speaker 3: around self healing and self growth. And one of the 448 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 3: things we talk a lot about, and this is another 449 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,679 Speaker 3: way women are, you know, an evolved species, is that 450 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 3: when women step in to parenthood today, we're not only 451 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 3: committed to how can we raise our children meaningfully, but 452 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 3: how can we raise ourselves alongside? Yeah, and that is 453 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:06,120 Speaker 3: something really interesting when I think about, you know, the 454 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,640 Speaker 3: power you talk about the pivot. I talk a lot 455 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:10,880 Speaker 3: about the power in the pause and in the transition, 456 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,919 Speaker 3: and I think it's a lot of that power lies 457 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 3: in the personal development that this sort of time and 458 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,679 Speaker 3: transition in our life is so so primed for. 459 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 1: Well, I want to talk about that, that that power 460 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 1: in that moment, because what's I struggle with a little 461 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 1: bit sometimes and I think that. 462 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 2: You I'm gleaning that you do too. 463 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 3: Is what's interesting here is. 464 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:38,719 Speaker 1: That we're building businesses around not being in the business. 465 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 3: We were in before. M m mm hmmm, mm hmmm. 466 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 1: And so in some ways it's great because we can 467 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:45,919 Speaker 1: design the way we want to work and what we 468 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 1: put out into the world, and it feels meaningful, it 469 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 1: feels like culture change. But there's also a little bit 470 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:50,919 Speaker 1: of a tension around it. 471 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 3: One hundred percent. I mean, I said for a long time. 472 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 3: So there is a great irony in building the first 473 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 3: platform for women on career pauses and change the narrative 474 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 3: around career pauses while being on a career pause. And 475 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,880 Speaker 3: so the thing that I have had to sit with 476 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:11,640 Speaker 3: and the discomfort has been not letting my pace outweigh 477 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 3: my purpose. So I launched, I talked about having my 478 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 3: son in twenty sixteen. I launched on January tenth or 479 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 3: twenty seventeen, and I came out of the gateheard right 480 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 3: like it was. There was a lot of quote unquote 481 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,879 Speaker 3: working mother communities, and I was excited about this little 482 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 3: haven of shining the light on women who were making 483 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,159 Speaker 3: room for family in a new way. So excited about it. 484 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 3: Twenty seven to teen to twenty eighteen, there was great 485 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,919 Speaker 3: sort of organic growth. I had my daughter in twenty eighteen, 486 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,879 Speaker 3: and where I'd perfected this like perfect two days a week. 487 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 3: You know, I was consulting at the time and working 488 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 3: on this platform. I had sort of thought I'd nailed it, 489 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,119 Speaker 3: and then I had my daughter, and it like up 490 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:53,439 Speaker 3: ended any sense of rhythm that I'd constructed. And so 491 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 3: it was like I was hitting pause on pause, on 492 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 3: pas on pause. And then twenty nineteen came and I 493 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,120 Speaker 3: was like, Okay, this is going to be the year. 494 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:02,920 Speaker 3: And then I had shingles, and then twenty twenty came, 495 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,679 Speaker 3: and then it was twenty twenty one when both my 496 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 3: kids were school aged, and there was sort of this 497 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 3: incredible divine timing where suddenly the world and culture felt 498 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:15,360 Speaker 3: ready to re examine work and family in a way 499 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 3: that they hadn't right, and you talked about the pandemic 500 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 3: being a potential catalytic moment for a lot of your guests, 501 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,960 Speaker 3: and so even though I started noodling on this in 502 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 3: twenty sixteen and really putting it out of the world 503 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,160 Speaker 3: in the world, then twenty twenty one, in post pandemic, 504 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 3: was really the moment I said, no, this is the 505 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 3: time to step in and really drive this conversation. And 506 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,360 Speaker 3: it happened to align with personal timing too, but there 507 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 3: was a lot of planting the seeds in the years 508 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 3: prior and then when the timing worked for myself and 509 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 3: my family, dialing it up right. 510 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: Did you see specific moments of growth and like, okay, 511 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 1: you have a significant following on instagramming that's probably where 512 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 1: a lot of this kind of audience evaluation is coming 513 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,440 Speaker 1: from me. I remember, like you, doctor, Becky's often talked about, 514 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,439 Speaker 1: and you talked about it on this podcast, how she 515 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 1: had went on Instagram like the day before the lockdown 516 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 1: or something crazy like that was like her first video. 517 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:06,399 Speaker 3: Yeah, so it was. 518 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: It was the perfect timing of everyone saying, oh my god, 519 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,160 Speaker 1: how do I deal with my kid when I'm locked 520 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: in with them now? All of a sudden, like did 521 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 1: you see specific moments or specific content that took off? 522 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:19,919 Speaker 3: So I do think it's funny because I remember she 523 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 3: and I'm messaging back then and then popping back onto 524 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 3: her page and being like what happened? Like weird? Yeah, 525 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,120 Speaker 3: I'm just like a little person again now, and she 526 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,680 Speaker 3: she I mean, her timing was fabulous, and I think 527 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,439 Speaker 3: twenty twenty one had a similar feeling for me, but 528 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 3: it was twenty twenty two that I saw them like 529 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,919 Speaker 3: twenty twenty one, I you know, where I had been, like, 530 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:41,640 Speaker 3: I mean, if you're going to talk about it from 531 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 3: Instagram numbers, I was like, had sort of just maintained 532 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 3: from the time of my second daughter till twenty twenty one. 533 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 3: And I think one of the big shifts for me 534 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:55,120 Speaker 3: was sharing content as I was like experiencing and living 535 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 3: in the pause versus like, I've now studied this and 536 00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 3: like interviewed two hundred women and I'm going to start 537 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:01,880 Speaker 3: speaking about it as an expert. And I really shifted 538 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 3: into much more thought leader content around and the reframes 539 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 3: that you know are shared widely, and I think that 540 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 3: that was the catalytic moment of growth. And I think 541 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 3: it was twenty twenty two that I really started to 542 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 3: share content around re examining our worth in sort of 543 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 3: quantifiable terms, the worth of an at home parent, sharing 544 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 3: reframes around how to think about financial interdependence, you know, 545 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 3: with our partners. So if you're someone if you are 546 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 3: the partner not working at home or sort of not 547 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 3: working for pay versus providing unpaid labor in the home, 548 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 3: how to think about that as like a financially intertebeddent 549 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 3: organization as opposed to like, one of the unfortunate limiting 550 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 3: beliefs is like I am now and dependent and that 551 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,399 Speaker 3: can feel really hard for an ambitious woman, Right, So 552 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 3: that reframe really took off reframes around not feeling like 553 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:55,680 Speaker 3: you can't ask for help. I think so many of 554 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 3: the women I've interviewed will say, like, if I'm not 555 00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:02,240 Speaker 3: working for pay, I don't deserve help. So really challenging 556 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 3: some of those false beliefs and using social media to 557 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:08,919 Speaker 3: do that and have a discourse about that, those pieces 558 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 3: of content were shared and really helped grow the audience 559 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,680 Speaker 3: in a huge way. How do you sit with that 560 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 3: exposure of vulnerability? 561 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 2: It's a lot. 562 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 1: I mean sometimes I have these vulnerability hangovers after probably 563 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:24,440 Speaker 1: conversations like this. 564 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 2: So how do you how do you handle that. 565 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 3: I'm more boundared than I think I appear, like, I 566 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 3: really think that I have sort of key content pillars 567 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 3: that I am really happy to have conversations about that 568 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 3: I know are going to make a difference for the 569 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 3: woman on the receiving end, right, Like, and if I 570 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 3: can share about myself and like reflections I'm having about 571 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 3: the nature of like let's take the pace, like knowing 572 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 3: that I'm going to move more slowly today and that 573 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 3: that doesn't mean I'm any less successful. That means I'm 574 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 3: being deliberate and that I trust that process, right, Like 575 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 3: sharing that is a personal reflection. But I don't share 576 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 3: about parenting like. I don't share like I will never 577 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 3: claim to be a parenting expert. I love parenting, I 578 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 3: really do. I think I've grown tremendously in it. But 579 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 3: I think I've made mistakes and I think i'm learning. 580 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 3: I'm a consumer of other people's wisdom and I'm trying 581 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 3: to do the best I can. But I do not 582 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 3: talk about unless it's in the context of parenting is 583 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 3: helping me and helps women grow themselves, and that's the 584 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 3: ripe opportunity and career pauses, that's the power, that's the 585 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,640 Speaker 3: unlocked potential. So I really keep it tight as to 586 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 3: what are the angles. I'm willing to share and explore. 587 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 3: But I don't openly share about what it feels like 588 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 3: to stay up at night worried about my child and 589 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 3: something that they're going through, Like that's off limits to 590 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 3: me and or my marriage and or my parents. You 591 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 3: know that to me is irrelevant to community who's collectively 592 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 3: exploring what it means to exist in the gray area 593 00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 3: of holding personal pursuit and personal ambition alongside motherhood and 594 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:05,959 Speaker 3: that constant recalibration. Well, Mylilah loves yourlila, so you're obviously 595 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 3: doing a great job. And the parenting that's so nice. 596 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 3: I hear good reports from there. But like you know, 597 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 3: at home is always different. It's a different level of chaos. 598 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 2: Oh god, the level of chaos. 599 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: It's interesting you say that because I would think of you, 600 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 1: you know, if we're trying to think about like a category, 601 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 1: like I probably would have put your work in a 602 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 1: parent in category, because those are the only categories we have. 603 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 1: Like I'm thinking specifically about you know, when we're submitting podcasts, 604 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 1: we have to check in boxes what are we are? 605 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: And we never really know, like for she pivots, like 606 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 1: are we in career, business? 607 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:40,760 Speaker 3: Are we in parenting? Are we in lifestyle? 608 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 1: Like we're kind of at the center of all of them, 609 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 1: but also a little bit none of them. 610 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:45,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, So I think the. 611 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 1: Idea that you're coming at this only talking about the parent, 612 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 1: like only talking about the mother and not talking about 613 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 1: the impact on the child is smart, and you are 614 00:30:58,200 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 1: creating a new category. 615 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, I would actually say inversely, the child's impact and 616 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 3: the mother, right, Like, I think the act of parenting 617 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 3: is enriching. But I think it's interesting because with the book, 618 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 3: you have to assign it categories, right, Like, there's a category, 619 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 3: but it's nonfiction self development, right like it's and it's 620 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 3: more in the career. You know. One of the big 621 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 3: societal tropes, like the big game changer that we're trying 622 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 3: to enact is that women on career pauses should still 623 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 3: be considered career like it is one chapter of an 624 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 3: evolving story of her career and she can't be counted out. 625 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 3: And so it's actually like a lot of this work 626 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 3: is keeping her confident and clear that this is one 627 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 3: part of her story, and then from a larger macro level, 628 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 3: shining a light on the gray area around her role 629 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 3: at home, the ways in which she's volunteering, the way 630 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 3: that she's networking and meeting incredible women that she's you know, 631 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 3: at the playground, the way that she's taken an online 632 00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 3: class or freelancing, and so that side of it is 633 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 3: just proactively trying to blurrow the edges. So that she 634 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 3: has never counted out of the career conversation. 635 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,600 Speaker 1: Where do you think people generally find you? Like, do 636 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,480 Speaker 1: you know, like do you really have an idea? Like 637 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 1: who you're speaking to? Like women who are thinking about 638 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 1: taking a career pause, are they already in it? Are 639 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 1: they trying to find their way out? 640 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 3: So it's fifteen percent or fifteen to nineteen like fluctuates 641 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 3: depending on the month, are like in the preparing Then 642 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 3: there's a significant majority who are on the pause, and 643 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 3: then the remaining is starting to edge their way back 644 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:38,960 Speaker 3: into freelance, consulting, small business, a lot of the gray. 645 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 3: There's just so much movement between those, right, and then 646 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 3: there's like ten percent that are returning to the workforce, 647 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 3: like the's traditional workforce. 648 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,880 Speaker 1: What do you feel like people ask you the most 649 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 1: They want advice. 650 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 3: On how to deal with the stigma. Which is the harder? 651 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 3: You know, it's both. It's both the thing I can 652 00:32:55,960 --> 00:33:00,120 Speaker 3: probably speak volumes about right like, you know, because I 653 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 3: had to do that personal work, and it's the thing 654 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 3: that I like, I'm most committed to changing to a world. 655 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 3: You know, we recently released the results of the AMP 656 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 3: Survey American Mothers un Pause it's the first of its 657 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 3: kind survey of twelve hundreds at home moms and then 658 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 3: a thousand general pop and it was really centered around 659 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 3: taking a closer look at this new woman making room 660 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 3: for family life and from a general population perspective, we 661 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 3: really wanted to understand perceptions. And what's wild is seventy 662 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 3: eight percent of women say they feel completely misunderstood for 663 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,959 Speaker 3: their role at home. You know, that's the disconnect that 664 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 3: we want to solve for because it's one part feeling 665 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,720 Speaker 3: completely undervalued for the contributions of unpaid labor. Because where 666 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 3: that holds you back is then your ability to ask 667 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 3: for help. And when you ask for help, then you 668 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 3: help your mental health, you help your ability to stay 669 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:57,000 Speaker 3: connected to the workforce and other community contributions in other ways. 670 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:00,400 Speaker 3: But in the other way, like that misunderstanding makes very 671 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 3: challenging for women to re enter. 672 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 1: I want to get to that piece, the child's care, 673 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 1: having whatever child care and support looks like in your 674 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,320 Speaker 1: family in different homes. I do feel like for me, 675 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 1: I'm transparent about a lot of things. That's something that 676 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,840 Speaker 1: still feels too vulnerable for me to talk about, feeling 677 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 1: judged in it or not judged in it or whatever 678 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 1: the case may be, You've been quite open about it. 679 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:28,239 Speaker 1: Did that How did you come to being so open 680 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 1: and how does it feel? 681 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:34,759 Speaker 3: I think I really feel committed to that transparency because 682 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 3: I think it helps women ask for the help that 683 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,080 Speaker 3: they deserve. And I really do believe that it is 684 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 3: I mean, I think I came to that conclusion for 685 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,680 Speaker 3: a few reasons. One because I didn't want to perpetuate 686 00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:49,360 Speaker 3: this idea that I could create and build a platform 687 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:54,520 Speaker 3: like in the fringe Hours of motherhood. Yes, like that illusion, 688 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:57,680 Speaker 3: because you have to remember that there is a community. 689 00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:02,400 Speaker 3: My community is mainly centered are on women that either 690 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 3: have part time, very intermittent childcare or none. And so 691 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:12,080 Speaker 3: I never want that woman to feel like my day 692 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 3: wasn't purposeful because I didn't share life five hundred i 693 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,400 Speaker 3: Instagram stories and reframs that are going viral like that, 694 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:22,880 Speaker 3: that isn't We cannot all share the same metrics of 695 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,319 Speaker 3: success and the same metrics of productivity in a day, 696 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,120 Speaker 3: but we certainly can't if we don't understand the other 697 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:33,320 Speaker 3: person's support system, right. And also I had to remember 698 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 3: for myself in a personal experience, right because I had 699 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:39,479 Speaker 3: you know, I had sort of oscillating levels of care. 700 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,279 Speaker 3: Mostly not because I have the privilege to be able 701 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,360 Speaker 3: to have childcare if I want it. I really just 702 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,480 Speaker 3: don't like people in my space, Like I am like 703 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,880 Speaker 3: a very classic only child, and so when I'm with 704 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:52,160 Speaker 3: my kids, I want to be with my kids and 705 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,040 Speaker 3: I don't want anyone else around. So I always it 706 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:58,359 Speaker 3: worked for me to have two days of childcare, sometimes 707 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,760 Speaker 3: three afternoons of childcare, depended on the on the phase 708 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 3: we were in, and I would look around and think, 709 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:06,839 Speaker 3: like I could be doing more, I should be doing 710 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 3: more from other untitled and I had to remind myself 711 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,799 Speaker 3: but like, I don't have the support to do that 712 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,440 Speaker 3: right now, and I will one day one day, and 713 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 3: I'm in that day right now. One day my children 714 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,120 Speaker 3: will be at camp from nine in the morning till 715 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:21,799 Speaker 3: four thirty and I will have that time. But it 716 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 3: was really important for me to remember and reflect on 717 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:28,320 Speaker 3: that myself, and to make sure that other women weren't 718 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,640 Speaker 3: comparing themselves to me. And how do I feel about 719 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,439 Speaker 3: it after I share? Sometimes I feel nervous. I feel 720 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:36,600 Speaker 3: nervous that someone's going to turn around and be like, 721 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,880 Speaker 3: and someone did say this, well, you're not truly fully 722 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:42,600 Speaker 3: an at home parent because you have you know, X 723 00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,239 Speaker 3: amount of hours of childcare, to which I would say 724 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,319 Speaker 3: like great, because I'm trying to dismantle the trope of 725 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,600 Speaker 3: like a black and white nature of an at home parent. 726 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,600 Speaker 3: You're right, I'm somewhere in between, and I'm so lucky 727 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:54,640 Speaker 3: to be able to do that. 728 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,080 Speaker 1: And I think it does open up the conversation. I mean, 729 00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:00,000 Speaker 1: we get this question a lot talking about people's pivot. 730 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:02,880 Speaker 1: Is there is a presumption that pivoting is a totally 731 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:08,160 Speaker 1: privileged opportunity. I thought going into the first season of 732 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 1: this that that was a big priority for me to dismantle, 733 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:13,800 Speaker 1: and so we have had guests on that have used 734 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:16,319 Speaker 1: government programs, government assistants. 735 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:17,000 Speaker 3: You know. 736 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:19,480 Speaker 1: We had one guest who was renting out a tent 737 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:21,759 Speaker 1: in her living room was an airbnb, you know, to 738 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:22,640 Speaker 1: be able to get by. 739 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,000 Speaker 3: She definitely doesn't have a problem with people in her space. 740 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:27,000 Speaker 2: That was like a whole nother level. 741 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,600 Speaker 1: I was really anybody on She's like, yeah, it didn't 742 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,439 Speaker 1: go long, and I do still I do still see 743 00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:34,760 Speaker 1: it as a priority for me to have those stories 744 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,280 Speaker 1: on and continue to tell those stories. But I actually 745 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:41,319 Speaker 1: think that there is such an abundance of because it 746 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:44,000 Speaker 1: is the stigma, and it is societal of women who 747 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:48,239 Speaker 1: consider themselves professional and white collar and high achieving, who 748 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:50,200 Speaker 1: thought they had options, like the options are what make 749 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,640 Speaker 1: them anxious? Yes, Yes, because you always, like you said, 750 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:55,480 Speaker 1: you always felt like you were supposed to be doing more. 751 00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:58,040 Speaker 1: You always think you're supposed to be doing more. That 752 00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:02,040 Speaker 1: I when I think about this show as the opportunity 753 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:05,400 Speaker 1: for culture change by opening up and telling stories, I 754 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:07,920 Speaker 1: think maybe that's a more impactful path for us right now, 755 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,359 Speaker 1: like us being like you know, cheap hboits and the team. 756 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:12,360 Speaker 3: And I don't mean to say this. 757 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:14,239 Speaker 1: And to suggest that what you should be doing, you 758 00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:15,640 Speaker 1: should be doing what you are doing. 759 00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 3: Yes, but I know what you're saying, and I it 760 00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:22,680 Speaker 3: resonates because I do think often that is the pushback, right, 761 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:25,400 Speaker 3: and I will you know, I've sort of I have 762 00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:27,439 Speaker 3: deep thoughts on that that I share about. But where 763 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:31,600 Speaker 3: I come back to is if you are in the 764 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,719 Speaker 3: privileged position to be able to do this work and 765 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:38,080 Speaker 3: shine a light on people navigating non linear careers and 766 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,040 Speaker 3: making the best choices for them and their family, and 767 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:43,400 Speaker 3: you can do the work of dismantling stereotypes and opening 768 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,440 Speaker 3: up options. There's a ripple effect there, and so I'll 769 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,040 Speaker 3: tell you also in the AM survey, three and ten 770 00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:53,400 Speaker 3: women had to make the choice to pause their careers 771 00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:56,600 Speaker 3: because of the cost of childcare. So yes, we often 772 00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,840 Speaker 3: speak to and speak about the other seventy percent for 773 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,440 Speaker 3: whom it was the privilege to choose. But the ripple 774 00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:06,920 Speaker 3: effect when we change the perception of the pause is 775 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,799 Speaker 3: felt by everyone. It's felt also by the women who 776 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,319 Speaker 3: don't get our right to choose. And I would say 777 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,719 Speaker 3: the same for you, because women come across men and 778 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,920 Speaker 3: women come across pivots for a whole onslot of reasons. 779 00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,879 Speaker 3: But whatever the profile of the guests you have, you're 780 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:26,000 Speaker 3: shining a light on this very big, powerful moment where 781 00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:30,680 Speaker 3: women are transitioning and it's unlocking huge amounts of opportunity 782 00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:33,600 Speaker 3: and it's sort of you're infusing trust into that process 783 00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 3: that can be really hard, and that is felt by everyone. Right, Well, 784 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:40,359 Speaker 3: we actually haven't gone through your own personal story. 785 00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:41,640 Speaker 1: I mean we did a little bit at the beginning, 786 00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:42,920 Speaker 1: but like, can you give us like a little bit 787 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,919 Speaker 1: more background into the background that got you there? Also 788 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:47,960 Speaker 1: the fact that we went to college together but yeah. 789 00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,520 Speaker 3: I know, but didn't know each other. Yeah, because and 790 00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,120 Speaker 3: I really think this is why. So I guess the 791 00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:57,600 Speaker 3: conversation starts with you know, I've been reflecting on why 792 00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:00,640 Speaker 3: am I more risk tolerant because I to think that 793 00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:03,360 Speaker 3: a fair amount of taking a pause and feeling so 794 00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:07,080 Speaker 3: trustworthy of that pause comes with a sense of self trust, 795 00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:11,799 Speaker 3: right and risk. I'm not going to discount that it 796 00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:14,960 Speaker 3: and I think it came from when I was in 797 00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:16,840 Speaker 3: I grew up in a very small town outside Boston. 798 00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:18,840 Speaker 3: It was predominantly white, and I'm not going to go 799 00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:20,680 Speaker 3: on like a big racial tangent, but I will tell 800 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:24,160 Speaker 3: you I did self sabotage, honestly in my teen years 801 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,680 Speaker 3: to fit in. I think I wanted to dismantle I 802 00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:29,240 Speaker 3: was all about dismantling stereotypes even then, and I wanted 803 00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:31,799 Speaker 3: to dismantle the stereotype of being an Indian girl. So 804 00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:33,600 Speaker 3: I was like, Ah, the best thing to do is 805 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:36,360 Speaker 3: like tank my math grades, you know, or like party 806 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,680 Speaker 3: really hard, or do whatever. And I woke up one 807 00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:40,920 Speaker 3: day it was the morning of my graduation, and I 808 00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,359 Speaker 3: said to my parents, I don't know how I had 809 00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:46,400 Speaker 3: this one moment of wisdom because I hadn't had many, 810 00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:48,880 Speaker 3: but I came downstairs and said, like, if I go 811 00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,239 Speaker 3: to college right now, I'd already been accepted. But I said, like, 812 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,680 Speaker 3: if I go now, this like path is just going 813 00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:58,960 Speaker 3: to continue and I need to take a pause. And 814 00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:02,239 Speaker 3: I went to India for a year. My parents were like, 815 00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:04,600 Speaker 3: you do what you do, you you do whatever you 816 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:06,239 Speaker 3: need to do to get back on track. And I 817 00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:11,040 Speaker 3: felt like breaking from the path was what I needed 818 00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:15,920 Speaker 3: to return to myself. Like that trip started with like 819 00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:18,560 Speaker 3: three weeks in the Himalayas. And I'm not outdoorsy, like 820 00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:20,839 Speaker 3: I just like I claim to be many things, I'm 821 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:26,120 Speaker 3: not outdoorsy, except there was something about separating from everyone 822 00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:28,479 Speaker 3: and everything and all the expectations and all the wanting 823 00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:30,560 Speaker 3: to fit in that you come back to, Okay, what 824 00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:32,680 Speaker 3: do I really like? What do I not really like? 825 00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:35,360 Speaker 3: What do I want my life to look like? And 826 00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,840 Speaker 3: that was a gift from breaking from the path. And 827 00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:40,920 Speaker 3: I think that that gave me the trust to obviously 828 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:46,400 Speaker 3: replicate that experience in motherhood, you know, decades later. But 829 00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,440 Speaker 3: in between I came back. I did go to college. 830 00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,160 Speaker 3: I think I came back it to college with like 831 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:55,520 Speaker 3: a very renewed sense of ambition, like and I think 832 00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,359 Speaker 3: I really went to college to just go, like I 833 00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:00,480 Speaker 3: just wanted to get through it, and I got in 834 00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:03,600 Speaker 3: three years started a career in advertising. I got lucky 835 00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:06,960 Speaker 3: because I started in the advent of digital media, so 836 00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,640 Speaker 3: like Twitter had just launched, and they basically were like, oh, 837 00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:11,560 Speaker 3: you're twenty two years old, Like you seem like you 838 00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:13,440 Speaker 3: know what you're doing, Like you should probably do this, 839 00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:16,160 Speaker 3: and mom blogs was my beat, like that was what 840 00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:19,320 Speaker 3: I was so hilariously, that was what I was assigned 841 00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:21,239 Speaker 3: to work on, and I fell in love with women. 842 00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,000 Speaker 3: I fell in love with digital media. My boss took 843 00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,600 Speaker 3: me over to start digital strategy at a larger agency 844 00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:28,680 Speaker 3: called Hill Holiday. So I got lucky. I got some 845 00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:32,040 Speaker 3: like lucky timing, lucky breaks. Had a really nice career there, 846 00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:37,560 Speaker 3: focused on mom brands, and I knew I wanted again, 847 00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:41,400 Speaker 3: like a pause. I wasn't ready to part with the 848 00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:44,000 Speaker 3: perceptions and optics like I wasn't I was still in 849 00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:45,840 Speaker 3: my late twenties, like I wasn't about to take a 850 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,480 Speaker 3: career break then, But I did go to business school. 851 00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:50,400 Speaker 3: That was my juncture, that was my train stop to 852 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,000 Speaker 3: surround myself with smart people figure out what came next. 853 00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:55,720 Speaker 3: Came back and you went to like the top business school. 854 00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:58,319 Speaker 3: I did, I di I did. It was the only 855 00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:00,319 Speaker 3: one I applied to because I really did. I don't 856 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,319 Speaker 3: think advertising people usually go to business school, like that 857 00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:06,839 Speaker 3: isn't a typical path, But I think Stanford is like 858 00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:12,600 Speaker 3: really really receptive of that sort of unique, non traditional background. 859 00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:14,799 Speaker 3: So it was the right school for my background and 860 00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:17,960 Speaker 3: what I wanted to do. And I came back. I 861 00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:19,920 Speaker 3: thought I'd be in the startup world, and then I 862 00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:23,920 Speaker 3: had my son, and I think motherhood was sort of 863 00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:27,920 Speaker 3: this incredible collision of two things. It was similar to 864 00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:31,440 Speaker 3: business school a train stop to like surround myself with 865 00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:33,799 Speaker 3: incredible people. And that's something I talk about all the time, 866 00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,200 Speaker 3: is that, like I met some of the most diverse 867 00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:40,759 Speaker 3: women across industries on the playground, like in baby classes, 868 00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:44,080 Speaker 3: because otherwise I'd been in the lack halls of ad agencies. 869 00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:47,359 Speaker 3: I'd met one specific type of person, one specific type 870 00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:50,160 Speaker 3: of industry prior to that, and so it was a 871 00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:52,799 Speaker 3: real opener and expander in that way. And the other 872 00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:55,160 Speaker 3: thing it brought up was that time like back in 873 00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:57,840 Speaker 3: the Himalayas and then teaching in India, where you know, 874 00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:02,000 Speaker 3: when you're stripped away from other people's expectations, the ego 875 00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:05,120 Speaker 3: of like trying to fit, you can really figure out 876 00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:06,760 Speaker 3: like what really matters? 877 00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, is there anything we haven't covered? We've covered a lot, 878 00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:14,040 Speaker 1: We did cover a lot. What's the main point that 879 00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:16,120 Speaker 1: you want to get across? What do you want people 880 00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:18,680 Speaker 1: to know about when they hear about mother entitled? 881 00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:22,320 Speaker 3: You know we really are like, yes, we're an oasis 882 00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:26,319 Speaker 3: for women on career pauses to comment surround themselves with 883 00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,239 Speaker 3: women that help them feel confident and still connected to 884 00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:33,440 Speaker 3: their creativity and the opportunity and their career pause. But 885 00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:36,400 Speaker 3: it's also above all things, it's a movement to change 886 00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:39,680 Speaker 3: and dismantle the tropes around stay at home motherhoods so 887 00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:43,480 Speaker 3: that women can choose to pause or shift and exist 888 00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:45,960 Speaker 3: in this like vast gray area between stay at home 889 00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,200 Speaker 3: and working mother so that we can make the right 890 00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:51,240 Speaker 3: choice for right now and transition back to the workforce 891 00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:52,000 Speaker 3: when we're ready. 892 00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,000 Speaker 1: What is one thing that at the time you saw 893 00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:58,080 Speaker 1: its like a real negative and now in retrospect you 894 00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:00,080 Speaker 1: really see it as maybe having put you on their path. 895 00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:03,960 Speaker 3: You know, short term, I'll tell you that in twenty eighteen, 896 00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:07,680 Speaker 3: twenty nineteen, it was really hard to look around and 897 00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:11,120 Speaker 3: see the wing was blowing up. Hey, Mama was growing. 898 00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:13,680 Speaker 3: You know, there were all these amazing women led companies. 899 00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:17,520 Speaker 3: Obviously they've all had their challenges, you know, since and 900 00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:20,120 Speaker 3: I wished I really saw what I was doing as big, 901 00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:23,680 Speaker 3: and yet I couldn't make it big at that moment, 902 00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:27,320 Speaker 3: right Like I was in the depths of postmarket and 903 00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:30,799 Speaker 3: anxiety transitioning to two children, like sitting there being like 904 00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:33,120 Speaker 3: I don't even know how to split my hours up 905 00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:35,760 Speaker 3: in the day, let alone like run this thing alongside, 906 00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:39,880 Speaker 3: And I don't think I would have sold. I wanted 907 00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:42,120 Speaker 3: to write this book, The Power Pause. I wanted to 908 00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:44,600 Speaker 3: write it back then. But if I'd tried to sell 909 00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:46,360 Speaker 3: that book in twenty eighteen, it wouldn't I've sold. 910 00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:46,719 Speaker 1: No. 911 00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:52,200 Speaker 3: Timing is everything everything. Twenty twenty two, they were ready, 912 00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:55,000 Speaker 3: twenty twenty three, they were ready. I was ready, And 913 00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:57,120 Speaker 3: so there's a lot around trusting timing. 914 00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:01,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's a important point that we should 915 00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:03,880 Speaker 1: bring out more. I feel like, even when I'm booking 916 00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:07,200 Speaker 1: guests for this show that if someone says no, like 917 00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:08,880 Speaker 1: I don't take it as like a no forever and like, 918 00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:10,960 Speaker 1: well our timing was off, like I'll come back to 919 00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:13,480 Speaker 1: you or they come back to me, Like maybe I'm 920 00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:15,480 Speaker 1: ready to have a different kind of guest on or 921 00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:16,560 Speaker 1: have a different kind of conversation. 922 00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:20,840 Speaker 3: Well, a different conversation because the conversation evolves, right, Like 923 00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:22,839 Speaker 3: I think back in twenty eighteen, it would have been 924 00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:27,440 Speaker 3: so personally rooted in living it. And for me now 925 00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:29,759 Speaker 3: with sort of the plethora of women we've gotten a 926 00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,799 Speaker 3: chance to interview on the site and profile, it's sort 927 00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:36,080 Speaker 3: of opened up the angle and all the angles we 928 00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:38,800 Speaker 3: want to cover and all the phases of the journey 929 00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:41,399 Speaker 3: and the areas that women need support in a way 930 00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:43,840 Speaker 3: that we're still unknown to me. And I feel like 931 00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,799 Speaker 3: I'll just keep I think we'll all keep exploring it, 932 00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:49,760 Speaker 3: like you're season ten. Yeah gonna look a lot different. 933 00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,759 Speaker 3: It's called he pivots, like apparently we just announced it. Yeah, 934 00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:55,920 Speaker 3: here breaking down. I think our husbands are going to 935 00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,080 Speaker 3: be like the first ones on it, I know, except 936 00:46:58,239 --> 00:46:59,799 Speaker 3: the first guess. I know. 937 00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:02,239 Speaker 1: It does often surprise people find it. My husband was 938 00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:03,760 Speaker 1: an army officer and. 939 00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:05,719 Speaker 3: I did not know that. 940 00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:08,640 Speaker 1: Oh that's good. Yeah, my husband was an Army officer. 941 00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:10,800 Speaker 1: He went to West Point, he served two tours in AREC, 942 00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:14,279 Speaker 1: and now he just, like you know, gets by as 943 00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:16,520 Speaker 1: one of the regular dads. 944 00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:19,520 Speaker 3: I know, in a community where no one's in the military. 945 00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,319 Speaker 3: I need to understand how you guys met blind date. 946 00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:24,520 Speaker 1: We were set up on a blind date, and I 947 00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:27,640 Speaker 1: was working in military personnel policy at the time, so 948 00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:30,600 Speaker 1: it didn't weird me out that he was in the Army. 949 00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:33,279 Speaker 1: I mean, he was out by then, but he was 950 00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:36,200 Speaker 1: in DC. Yeah, Yeah, we were in DC. Yeah, there's 951 00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:40,040 Speaker 1: so much military community in DC anyway that you're like 952 00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:41,719 Speaker 1: a little more in it. But I mean, even when 953 00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:43,160 Speaker 1: I told my friends from the Upper West Side of 954 00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:45,600 Speaker 1: Manhattan that my new boyfriend went to West Point and 955 00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:46,680 Speaker 1: was served in the Army, They're like. 956 00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:50,040 Speaker 3: Oh, is he Like, is he okay? Does he feel 957 00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:52,799 Speaker 3: like TBI? And so it kills a lot of people. 958 00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:55,240 Speaker 3: I was like, no, it's pretty normal. Did he watch Homeline? 959 00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:56,439 Speaker 3: Did he watch online? No? 960 00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:59,560 Speaker 1: I just I know, I think he just didn't find 961 00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:02,640 Speaker 1: an interesting. He has a very high tolerance. 962 00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:04,759 Speaker 3: Like Chef's watching Bear right now. 963 00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:06,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. 964 00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:09,480 Speaker 1: No, he has a very high tolerance for travel I 965 00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:13,920 Speaker 1: would consider unsafe. He has a very high tolerance for them. 966 00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:16,960 Speaker 1: Like right before the Iran deal, he went on a 967 00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:20,400 Speaker 1: vacation in Iran. He said it was the best job 968 00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:23,279 Speaker 1: he ever took. But he's like he went to Afghanistan 969 00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:25,600 Speaker 1: for fun, like he was not deployed there. 970 00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:27,880 Speaker 2: It's very high tolerance for that kind of travel. 971 00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:33,400 Speaker 3: Where's he from? New Jersey? Oh, like all the adventurers are. Wow, 972 00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:36,719 Speaker 3: the land of all the big adventurers. That is so 973 00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:40,640 Speaker 3: fascinating to me. You know, Dan and I met and 974 00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:44,799 Speaker 3: then our dating was transatlantic. Our dads connected us because 975 00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:48,240 Speaker 3: they work together in the nineties. They connected us for work. 976 00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:53,120 Speaker 3: This is biblical? Is it nearly? And our life was 977 00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:56,640 Speaker 3: travel like, our dating was entirely travel. I think it 978 00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:59,320 Speaker 3: expedites relationships. Interesting. 979 00:48:59,320 --> 00:48:59,880 Speaker 2: Wait, so you go. 980 00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:02,680 Speaker 3: Your dad's were set you guys up, but just for work. 981 00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:05,560 Speaker 3: They set us have just for work. So Dan was 982 00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:07,080 Speaker 3: in tech and I was a nondvertised I was on 983 00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:09,799 Speaker 3: the digital side of advertising. They did not I mean, 984 00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:13,560 Speaker 3: I'm not Jewish, I converted, as you know, and they, 985 00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:16,880 Speaker 3: yeah know, his parents most definitely did not want us 986 00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:19,440 Speaker 3: to be together. Oh really that was a thing. Yeah, yeah, no, 987 00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:20,040 Speaker 3: that was a thing. 988 00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:21,279 Speaker 2: How have you managed that? 989 00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:27,239 Speaker 3: Well, I converted, So I checked that box and then 990 00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:30,160 Speaker 3: I did a lot of therapy because as you can imagine, 991 00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:33,560 Speaker 3: I mean, per like what I just said about my upbringing, 992 00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:35,880 Speaker 3: I had all sorts of belonging stuff. So then I 993 00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:38,560 Speaker 3: like one from like not belonging in like Waspy town 994 00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:41,040 Speaker 3: in Boston, Like now I don't belong in this like 995 00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:43,960 Speaker 3: very Jewish family. So you know, I did a boatload 996 00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:47,760 Speaker 3: of therapy. And in the end, I think time is everything. 997 00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:51,080 Speaker 3: Timing is everything, right, Like everyone takes an adjustment period, 998 00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:53,080 Speaker 3: like there was a learning curve of like wait, this 999 00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:55,800 Speaker 3: isn't going to disrupt our entire life, like she's actually 1000 00:49:55,800 --> 00:50:00,319 Speaker 3: one of us in like other ways, And I was like, no, oh, 1001 00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:03,319 Speaker 3: my marriage isn't gonna implode if they don't approve of 1002 00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:05,759 Speaker 3: like every single thing I do, Like this isn't like 1003 00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:10,439 Speaker 3: this is this is safe? Yeah? Time time. 1004 00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:14,080 Speaker 1: Nah. This has been such a great conversation. We really 1005 00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:16,880 Speaker 1: covered a lot of ground. My favorite kind decorating. On 1006 00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:20,279 Speaker 1: the next podcast, please please, we'll just do a house 1007 00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:21,600 Speaker 1: tour perfect. 1008 00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:23,160 Speaker 2: I hear those are big on YouTube. 1009 00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:26,319 Speaker 3: Oh really, I'm I'm still learning on video, so you 1010 00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:26,920 Speaker 3: can teach me. 1011 00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:28,920 Speaker 2: Well, we can bring house tours to podcasting. 1012 00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:32,600 Speaker 3: We're coming up with a lot of things for season ten, 1013 00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:37,640 Speaker 3: season ten, season eleven. It's gonna thank you so much 1014 00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:40,040 Speaker 3: for joining she pivots. Oh thanks for having me. 1015 00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:47,080 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this candid convo episode of she Pivots. 1016 00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:51,320 Speaker 1: Check back in weekly for more conversations with inspiring women. 1017 00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:55,399 Speaker 1: To learn more about our guests, follow us on Instagram 1018 00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:59,320 Speaker 1: at she pivots the podcast. Leave a rating and comment 1019 00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:02,359 Speaker 1: if you enjoy this episode to help authers learn about it. 1020 00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:05,400 Speaker 1: A special thank you to our partner Marie Claire and 1021 00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:07,480 Speaker 1: the team that made this episode possible. 1022 00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:08,920 Speaker 3: Talk to you next week. 1023 00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:15,000 Speaker 1: She Pivots is hosted by me Emily Tish Sussman, produced 1024 00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:18,839 Speaker 1: by Emily eda Veloshik, with sound editing and mixing from 1025 00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:22,680 Speaker 1: Nina Pollok, and research and planning for Christine Dickinson and 1026 00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:23,560 Speaker 1: Hannah Cousins. 1027 00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:27,240 Speaker 3: I endorse t Pivots.