Speaker 1: Alright, Episode seventy one of the Bobby Cast with the
Speaker 1: writer Tom Douglas. Hey Tom, are you? It's good to
Speaker 1: see him in. So many people say so many great
Speaker 1: things about you. It's finally nice to get you in here.
Speaker 1: How long have you been in Nashville? Well, I came,
Speaker 1: uh the first time, from nineteen eighty to eighty four,
Speaker 1: and then I left in eighty four never to return,
Speaker 1: and moved back in nineteen seven. So now I've been
Speaker 1: that much of a gap. Humph. They're just give or
Speaker 1: take thirteen years. But yeah, now I've been back twenty years.
Speaker 1: So it's a uh it is. You know, for some
Speaker 1: people it seems very direct, but for me, it was
Speaker 1: a very circuitous route. So one of the things I
Speaker 1: like to do is kind of let people know what
Speaker 1: they're what they're getting here. I'm gonna play a few
Speaker 1: of your songs and then we'll just kind of start
Speaker 1: back over. So you wrote The House that Built Me,
Speaker 1: which is just a game angel for anybody, And we'll
Speaker 1: come back around to that one in a second. So
Speaker 1: the House that Built Me Southern Voice with Tim I
Speaker 1: run to you from Lady A. I mean, I have
Speaker 1: a lot of them I'm just getting people a taste here.
Speaker 1: They know the greatness that they're hearing. Raise them up,
Speaker 1: sailing sco. It's just too key, class of you in
Speaker 1: making it too some good stuff and I'm gonna hit
Speaker 1: him with some some other stuff in a minute. Anyway,
Speaker 1: So you come here in nineteen eight to do what well,
Speaker 1: you know, I grew so I grew up in Atlanta. Um,
Speaker 1: I grew up in a household where uh, education and
Speaker 1: job security were really there with a two pre eminent
Speaker 1: uh you know, parts of my life and my childhood.
Speaker 1: My that's kind of what what was preached to me
Speaker 1: by my parents. My father was very musical and love music,
Speaker 1: and really he loved songs. I mean, kind of looking back,
Speaker 1: I have some perspective. So music was a big part
Speaker 1: of our household. But um, you know, I mean my
Speaker 1: mom worked, my dad worked. I mean, they really did
Speaker 1: a lot to try to get me educated. So it
Speaker 1: sounds like they wouldn't want you to have a creative
Speaker 1: job where there's not a lot of security. No, it
Speaker 1: would be I mean for me to have told my
Speaker 1: parents that I was gonna like so I go to
Speaker 1: college and graduate school. And I really did try to
Speaker 1: assimilate into the real world. And I did for a
Speaker 1: while until I was twenty seven. Then I just thought,
Speaker 1: you know, the call of Nashville was so strong that
Speaker 1: I just I didn't really have a great plan, but
Speaker 1: I talked a publisher in Atlanta into letting me pitches
Speaker 1: songs in Nashville. It was Bill Lowry. It was a
Speaker 1: kind of revered publisher in Atlanta. And I came up here,
Speaker 1: and you know, I just got enough money to pitch
Speaker 1: songs and I started meeting people. I just I just
Speaker 1: wanted to be in Nashville. It was you know, it's
Speaker 1: the it's the it's almost like the siren, you know
Speaker 1: in the in mythology where she's calling you, beckoning you.
Speaker 1: Why do you think that? Why did you want to
Speaker 1: come to Nashville so that well, I just I think
Speaker 1: it represented songs. It just, uh, were you writing the
Speaker 1: whole time you're working? No, Well, I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: I've written since I was twelve, so I've always you know,
Speaker 1: had a poetic band. I've always loved stories, I've always
Speaker 1: loved songs. I never aspired to be an artist, but
Speaker 1: I just, you know, I just always wrote. It was
Speaker 1: just it was the way that I looked at life,
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, uh, it's it was just kind
Speaker 1: of the the filter through which, you know, I saw
Speaker 1: everything through songs and through stories. So it was very
Speaker 1: just second nature to me. I didn't realize that it
Speaker 1: was kind of unique. I thought everybody looked at life
Speaker 1: like that, but um, you know, I just was like,
Speaker 1: you know, I was twenty seven. I didn't really I
Speaker 1: just I just had to do it. It was just
Speaker 1: kind of an unexplainable desire to to be here, just
Speaker 1: to just to get here. So, you know, I just
Speaker 1: kind of loaded up and I just came got an
Speaker 1: apartment and just that I just I just wanted to
Speaker 1: soak up the sights and the sounds and the people
Speaker 1: and what was it? What was what's Nashville like in
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty and who was here? Like, who were the
Speaker 1: big names? Was Nashville like nine when you moved? Well,
Speaker 1: it was gosh, I hadn't really thought that much about
Speaker 1: that in a long time. It was like what was happening? Well, okay.
Speaker 1: So the reason why I'm a little disconnected from that
Speaker 1: is because, strangely enough, I did not grow up listening
Speaker 1: to country music. So I grew up listening to you know,
Speaker 1: the I mean, I think everybody thinks they grew up
Speaker 1: in the Golden era of music, but I grew up
Speaker 1: with like literally, in August of nineteen sixty four, the
Speaker 1: first concert I went to was Atlanta Fulton County Stadium.
Speaker 1: I saw the Beatles to play, so um. Then I
Speaker 1: grew up with you know, the Beatles and you know
Speaker 1: and Elton John and Springsteen and Jackson Brown. I mean
Speaker 1: that was really I grew up loving the songs of
Speaker 1: Jimmy Webb and Chris Christofferson and Hank Williams. But I
Speaker 1: didn't I didn't listen to country music. So I came
Speaker 1: up here and I still, you know, it was like
Speaker 1: a fish out of water. I didn't really know what
Speaker 1: was going on in music. Row um, and looking back,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I'd have to think about what was
Speaker 1: going on. I wonder what kind of piqued my curiosity.
Speaker 1: You saw the Beatles in nineteen in a in a stadium.
Speaker 1: How does that sound? Because the technology of one playing
Speaker 1: a baseball statim is not that good anyway, even today,
Speaker 1: it's it's not the greatest environment for music, and they do.
Speaker 1: But then, right, could you hear them over the screen.
Speaker 1: I mean, um, I I still it's indelibly etched in
Speaker 1: my mind, maybe a quarter mile Like I got on
Speaker 1: a bus, a yellow school bus with twenty other kids
Speaker 1: my age, and a couple of mothers and a couple
Speaker 1: of teachers, and we just went to see the Beatles.
Speaker 1: I mean it was, I mean, it was like, I mean,
Speaker 1: so this is like, you know, this is Elvis, you know,
Speaker 1: creates a revolution in nineteen fifty four, so this is
Speaker 1: like only ten years later. And I mean literally, girls screaming,
Speaker 1: or was a quarter mile before you got to the stadium.
Speaker 1: You could hear the screen, you could hear the screams,
Speaker 1: and it was I mean from the moment they started
Speaker 1: until you know, until we got a quarter mile away.
Speaker 1: The girls screamed and literally they had like four vox
Speaker 1: amps and they were singing over the p a of
Speaker 1: the of the Brave Stadium. That has to sound terrible
Speaker 1: now again to today's standards, But do you remember hearing
Speaker 1: and knowing the songs was the screen? It was? It
Speaker 1: was it was a transcendent experience. It was it was
Speaker 1: just it was just something that, um, I'll never forget.
Speaker 1: It was. I mean, it was truly it was. It
Speaker 1: was mysterious and magical, and uh, I mean it was.
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's it's sounded amazing, you know, even
Speaker 1: though you couldn't hear them, it was almost like they
Speaker 1: were miming. But you you know, it's funny sometimes you
Speaker 1: can hear the songs in your head, which is almost
Speaker 1: as good as you know, somebody singing if you know
Speaker 1: the songs that well. So, so you were about how
Speaker 1: old I was? I think, I mean so I was
Speaker 1: born in nineteen fifty three, so I was eleven. Well
Speaker 1: as an eleven year old, your folks are cool with
Speaker 1: you going to watch the I can't imagine that. I don't.
Speaker 1: I have no idea how my parents let me do it.
Speaker 1: I mean it was, it was, It was be it was,
Speaker 1: but you know, it's a different time. It was pretty
Speaker 1: innocent and up and as I say, you know, my
Speaker 1: father loved it. I mean he kind of lived vicariously
Speaker 1: through me. I think. So, I mean they were like,
Speaker 1: didn't seem like that big of a deal. But now
Speaker 1: looking back, like what I let my eleven year old
Speaker 1: children go to Bridgestone and see Justin Bieber. Justin Bieber,
Speaker 1: I mean I'd have to go with him, you know,
Speaker 1: or my wife would. But anyway, yeah, so I mean
Speaker 1: that was kind of my that was my start, and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, and then I get to National nineteen eighty
Speaker 1: from eighty four and I really I just kind of
Speaker 1: wander around. I just meet people. I pitched songs. I'm
Speaker 1: learning how to write songs, and you know, I uh,
Speaker 1: I tour managed a band that went to Europe. And
Speaker 1: you went to Europe. Oh yeah, I mean I was
Speaker 1: the worst tour manager in the history of concert promotion
Speaker 1: in nineteen eight Sorry sorry, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Right
Speaker 1: in the early eighties, you flew on a airplane across
Speaker 1: the ocean? Did that not scare the How about to you?
Speaker 1: But you could still smoke cigarettes? How about that? So
Speaker 1: I would sit on the back of a plane. There
Speaker 1: was a curtain separating first class from economy, and you know,
Speaker 1: people are just smoking cigarettes on a plane. How crazy
Speaker 1: is that? I guess not that crazy because it was
Speaker 1: always allowed and understood just the way it was. I
Speaker 1: get scared flying over water right now, with technology, I
Speaker 1: cannot I can't imagine, Like, so you're going, you're you're
Speaker 1: doing anything to eat? It sounds like you're just trying
Speaker 1: to Yeah, so I'm just getting by. I'm giving blood
Speaker 1: at a blood bank. Um, you know, you're just doing
Speaker 1: whatever you're doing. But you know it's thrilling and exciting
Speaker 1: and uh but at the end of the time, so
Speaker 1: you know. So now it's nineteen eighty four and I'm
Speaker 1: thirty one. So I've got all this education. All my
Speaker 1: friends are yeah, you know, I have gotten married. They've
Speaker 1: got their first job and their second promotion, and you know,
Speaker 1: and I just feel like, golly, now I've wasted ten
Speaker 1: years of my life. It was it was very wrestling.
Speaker 1: Do you have any songs at this point that I
Speaker 1: had done anything at all? Um? And I mean it
Speaker 1: was really it was you know, I mean, Nashville's hard today,
Speaker 1: but you know, when you don't have anything going on
Speaker 1: that look from the outside looking in, Nashville is a
Speaker 1: very lonely place. So you know, at that time, I
Speaker 1: just so I got up. I gotta do something else.
Speaker 1: So I had met my wife to be, we got engaged,
Speaker 1: and I moved to Texas and tried to put all
Speaker 1: this behind me, and I got in the real estate business.
Speaker 1: So you were out, you were never coming back. I
Speaker 1: was just that was what broke you though? What was
Speaker 1: the final straw? Well, I mean, honestly, I mean there
Speaker 1: you know, there's always, you know, parallel things going on
Speaker 1: in your life. My father had gotten ill, and so
Speaker 1: I brought my father up from Atlanta to live with me.
Speaker 1: And really the combination of my father being ill, caring
Speaker 1: for him, you know, nothing going on in music, making
Speaker 1: no money. I was thirty one, and you know, I've
Speaker 1: always I've always had this vision of like a scoreboard clock,
Speaker 1: and I always see this occasionally, you know, I'll see
Speaker 1: the scoreboard clock and the numbers are just winding down,
Speaker 1: and it always feels like I'm running out of time.
Speaker 1: And so it's like the scoreboard clock. It doesn't always
Speaker 1: it's not always as big as it is. But at
Speaker 1: that time, I remember the thinking, man, I am, I've
Speaker 1: wasted time, and now I'm running out of time. I've
Speaker 1: got my father. So the truth is, I mean, the
Speaker 1: combination of you know, the demoralization of being in Nashville
Speaker 1: and caring for my father, I just said, I gotta
Speaker 1: do something different. So my I went to Texas and
Speaker 1: moved in with my sister and brother in law, who
Speaker 1: graciously allowed my father not to move in with him.
Speaker 1: I was like, I gotta start all over again. When
Speaker 1: that was and so you started selling, well, I got
Speaker 1: in commercial real estate so and as poorly as I've
Speaker 1: done in music, I really the real estate commercial real
Speaker 1: estate world was terrible. Because you're too young to remember this,
Speaker 1: but interest rates went up to like interest rates today
Speaker 1: or four and a half percent, and there was a
Speaker 1: savings and loan crisis, and so everything really just stopped.
Speaker 1: So I was kind of just spinning my wheels again
Speaker 1: being in Texas. But you know, I was getting married
Speaker 1: and you know, starting to have children. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: I was. I was doing fine. It wasn't like I was,
Speaker 1: you know, in some cataconic, catatonic depression, but I was
Speaker 1: just I was just starting over now. I really, honestly,
Speaker 1: I really did. I tried to put the whole music
Speaker 1: thing behind me. I didn't really talk to people about it,
Speaker 1: and I didn't write for uh, you know, a couple
Speaker 1: of years. And then I mean, and the truth is,
Speaker 1: so this is now probably nineteen ninety and I was
Speaker 1: cold calling a shopping center and I was saying, I'm
Speaker 1: Tom Douglas with Cornerstone real Estate. At least the shopping
Speaker 1: center down the road. If you got any real estate needs,
Speaker 1: I'd be delighted to help you. At the same time,
Speaker 1: I was literally having this conversation with God, and I
Speaker 1: was saying, it just seems strange that now I'm thirty
Speaker 1: eight or thirty nine and the passion for music was
Speaker 1: still there. It was underlying, you know, the soundtrack was
Speaker 1: playing in my mind. I thought, it seems strange that
Speaker 1: I would be cynical and jaded at thirty nine and
Speaker 1: cold calling a shopping center in August and Texas and
Speaker 1: really and I had an epiphany and it was like,
Speaker 1: God said, well, you've worshiped the creation, which is the song,
Speaker 1: instead of me. How's that working out? It was, I mean,
Speaker 1: it was startling. I was like, well, you're right, I've
Speaker 1: taken this thing, which is in and of itself is good.
Speaker 1: I've kind of made it an idol. I really had
Speaker 1: to destroy the idol of songs. So it's talk about
Speaker 1: a wag walker for one second. One of the great
Speaker 1: things about doing this podcast is I can do it
Speaker 1: from home and my dog is here at the house,
Speaker 1: which is different than the radio show. My dog doesn't
Speaker 1: get to come up to the radio show. But I
Speaker 1: do love my dog and if you listen to me
Speaker 1: at all, you know he's fourteen years old. I mean,
Speaker 1: he's been with me through forever, so I do like
Speaker 1: to make sure he's taken care of and for me,
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Speaker 1: The thoroughly vetted walkers like I wouldn't trust someone with
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Speaker 1: and bam, there you go. You got it. Okay, So
Speaker 1: you come back? And what year to come back to Nashville?
Speaker 1: I moved here in nine back in so so, but
Speaker 1: you know so, but so. I don't know if if
Speaker 1: you want to go chronologically, but but so what happened
Speaker 1: was I kind of slowly regained my love for music
Speaker 1: and started writing songs again and feeling like I was
Speaker 1: always starting over. That's when I went to SMU early
Speaker 1: one Saturday morning and probably and you know, I started
Speaker 1: writing the song Little Rock, which really was just autobiographical.
Speaker 1: I just Colin Ray, Colin right. I played little bit
Speaker 1: of this is Apple marketsas that we played this, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm a stone baby, wait and see, I got this
Speaker 1: one small problem here in little without you, So you're
Speaker 1: right this when you're still living in Texas. And then
Speaker 1: I go to odd joint songwriter associations everywhere I went.
Speaker 1: I went to Austin. In the summer of ninety three,
Speaker 1: reconnected with Paul Whorley, whom I had known as a
Speaker 1: guitar player when I lived in in Nashville, you know,
Speaker 1: nine years earlier, and um gave him a cassette at
Speaker 1: the cocktail party, expecting him never to listen to it.
Speaker 1: In about two weeks ago, by any calls him one days,
Speaker 1: I've been listened to a couple of these songs. I
Speaker 1: think I like him. What you let me run with
Speaker 1: it and see if I can get anything going. And
Speaker 1: so Paul signed me to Sony Publishing and the first
Speaker 1: song I got recorded was a little rock. The first
Speaker 1: song we got recorded at forty one years old is
Speaker 1: this monster right here. Everybody knows the song. I saw
Speaker 1: Adam Craig when he was on your show. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think you just asked him and I was like, I
Speaker 1: was like, can you play calling? He Adam Craig has
Speaker 1: that calling rady text you his voice. I mean this
Speaker 1: song I hear it reminds in my childhood, like that's
Speaker 1: how strong this song is. And in fact that you
Speaker 1: wrote it handed it off. I never thought you get
Speaker 1: a call? When did it go? Hey? And how far
Speaker 1: along was calling in his career, Colin, he had had
Speaker 1: he'd had loved me and he had and he'd had
Speaker 1: Uh is it in this life? He'd had it. He'd
Speaker 1: had a couple of hits, I mean, and he was
Speaker 1: everybody loved his voice, and Paul was producing him, and yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it was you know, so I mean after
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, Paul basically signed me just based
Speaker 1: on that song. And uh you know, miraculously column Ree
Speaker 1: recorded it. So does that song end up being? Is
Speaker 1: that what makes you move to Nashville? Well, but then
Speaker 1: you know, I had such a mistrust for Nashville, which
Speaker 1: is I think healthy that I commuted up here one
Speaker 1: week a month for four years and then move my
Speaker 1: family back in n for four years. You commuted back
Speaker 1: and forth to Nashville. I still stay in the real
Speaker 1: estate business. I was sure it wasn't gonna work. I
Speaker 1: just thought this was a one off. And uh uh,
Speaker 1: I'm still not sure it's gonna work. But what a
Speaker 1: one off? Like that's a monster. Okay, so you move
Speaker 1: back thinking I can make a good run of this again,
Speaker 1: what makes you think, okay, I have to move back now? Well,
Speaker 1: you know, it was forty five and I've been up
Speaker 1: here enough, I've made a few relationships. Sony is the
Speaker 1: only publisher I've ever had, and so they they made
Speaker 1: it possible. I mean, so now I'm forty five, i
Speaker 1: have three children, and uh, you know, kind of my
Speaker 1: second renewal was coming up with Sony and they said,
Speaker 1: you know, we really think you could do this, but
Speaker 1: it would be better for you and for us if
Speaker 1: you were here. And so they made it possible. And
Speaker 1: I was. My father had had had just passed away,
Speaker 1: and it was almost like I had a clean break,
Speaker 1: just to start a start out all over again. See
Speaker 1: you moved to Nashville. What's your first taste of success
Speaker 1: as a Nashville song right? Well, and then Colin Ray
Speaker 1: recorded a song called Love Remains, and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: and the gift. I mean, it was still slow going
Speaker 1: because everything I've ever done has been it's just it's
Speaker 1: it's it's it's really left of center. I've never really
Speaker 1: been able to go right down the middle of the fairway.
Speaker 1: I'm either on the far left or the far right.
Speaker 1: But it seems like so far at least with the
Speaker 1: Calling Ray stuff. And we'll get to the rest of it.
Speaker 1: You actually make the fairway, like what you do. When
Speaker 1: it becomes successful, it shifts everything else to it. Well sometimes,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean I've I've had to the hardest
Speaker 1: thing over all the years, you know. I mean, now
Speaker 1: I've written like songs in twenty four years. But the
Speaker 1: hardest thing is just convincing myself to still do what
Speaker 1: I do. I still have such a tendency to follow
Speaker 1: trends or try to be something that I'm not, and
Speaker 1: I I really have tried, but it's almost like, you know,
Speaker 1: a piano vocal with a cello is like that. Really,
Speaker 1: that's that's almost all I can do every song. It's
Speaker 1: kind of that. Tell me about this one here you
Speaker 1: pretty familiar voice. Yeah, well that that was again, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, I wouldn't have a career without Paul Whorley.
Speaker 1: So that was again Paul, And I mean, I uh so,
Speaker 1: I do love Springsteen. I love you too. I love
Speaker 1: Dylan and the you know, the the device that they
Speaker 1: use in a lot of songs, or you know, the
Speaker 1: verses or vignettes, three completely unrelated vignettes and it's tied
Speaker 1: together by like a two line chorus. I mean, like
Speaker 1: grown men don't cry as I don't know why they
Speaker 1: say grown men don't cry. I don't know why they
Speaker 1: say grown mean don't cry. Loves the only house big
Speaker 1: enough for all the pain of the world, loves the
Speaker 1: only house. I mean, it's like I love songs like that.
Speaker 1: That's that's kind of in my my d n A
Speaker 1: because I've listened to so many songs like that. So
Speaker 1: I but I start all these songs on piano and
Speaker 1: then I have to find somebody somehow too, you know,
Speaker 1: to translate it, to make it, you know, you know,
Speaker 1: make it sound like a record. Um. So that happens
Speaker 1: in the studio sometimes. But I mean even the house
Speaker 1: that built me as the demo was a piano vocal
Speaker 1: which I have here in the demo, the sone of
Speaker 1: fuck that's this place a feeling, the sprokenness side, and
Speaker 1: my song he down here. It is like I'm someone else,
Speaker 1: a dount that maybe I could find mysel who's singing
Speaker 1: that's me, that like could just come in. What are
Speaker 1: you talking about? You're not a vocalist. That's like something
Speaker 1: Bruce Springsteen meets Tom Wade kind of from the house.
Speaker 1: Listen to that build Me, Mama. I buy that version
Speaker 1: the well, so all I can do is like if
Speaker 1: I do that, and then I have to the success
Speaker 1: I've had. I mean, now I've co written most of
Speaker 1: these songs, as you know, like that was with the
Speaker 1: Great Alan Shambling. Uh, the I have to I mean,
Speaker 1: if it's if it's, if it's what I do, which
Speaker 1: is the piano vocal, I have to then find an
Speaker 1: artist that can take that original but then translate it
Speaker 1: to you know, to what they do, and that that
Speaker 1: doesn't often happen. So when you make this demo and
Speaker 1: you do you shop it or does someone go this
Speaker 1: is perfect? Well we you know, we were allan and
Speaker 1: I worked on that for seven years. Uh you know,
Speaker 1: we started it, uh and then we demoed it, turned
Speaker 1: it into the publisher and they were like, yeah, that's cool,
Speaker 1: which you know, it's like code's big for this will
Speaker 1: never see the light of day, and where it's maddening.
Speaker 1: You know, you think everybody's raging idiot and only the
Speaker 1: look in the mirror and realized that you're the raging idiot.
Speaker 1: So yeah, um, but we worked on it, we redemoed it,
Speaker 1: you know, and we just kept we knew that there
Speaker 1: was something there and the truth is, we had too
Speaker 1: much detail. And at the very end, so you know,
Speaker 1: seven years later from when we started, we just laid
Speaker 1: the lyrics down on the coffee table and said, what
Speaker 1: is wrong. There's something that's not connecting, and we didn't
Speaker 1: have uh, well, we had to take out some detail,
Speaker 1: and we didn't have If I can just come in,
Speaker 1: I swear I'll leave, won't take nothing but a memory.
Speaker 1: We didn't have that, which is the line that precedes
Speaker 1: the hook. And as you know, the line that precedes
Speaker 1: the hook is often more important or as important as
Speaker 1: the hook itself. Why would you say this song for
Speaker 1: seven years? Well, you know, I mean I love songs,
Speaker 1: I really do, you know, and it's well it's it's
Speaker 1: a love hate relationship. But songs that are unfinished, they
Speaker 1: just they kind of drive me crazy. And um, I
Speaker 1: don't do that with all songs, but there are certain
Speaker 1: songs that you're just like loves the Only House took
Speaker 1: It took years. Um, you know, multiple demos, and you know,
Speaker 1: you just you just you just have to you know,
Speaker 1: you just have a feeling about certain songs and you
Speaker 1: just gotta stay with it. You know. Rewriting really does
Speaker 1: help with a lot, you know in songs. I mean,
Speaker 1: time does make some songs better. I'm curious to know
Speaker 1: that's we're talking about the house that built me. It
Speaker 1: took that long. How did you know you were done?
Speaker 1: And then when do you make that move to go okay,
Speaker 1: now really what I'm done? Yeah? Can we get an artist?
Speaker 1: I don't you know, it's almost like I think for
Speaker 1: the songwriter, it's almost not up to us to even
Speaker 1: ask that question, you know, we're so we have to
Speaker 1: be all process and detach ourselves from the end result.
Speaker 1: So it's almost like, alright, so we we wrote it,
Speaker 1: demoed it, turned it in. Nothing wrote it, demo turned
Speaker 1: it in, nothing wrote it, demoed it, turned it in.
Speaker 1: You know, the siren screamed and the red lights flashed,
Speaker 1: and that's when we knew, you know, it's I mean,
Speaker 1: everything we do is kind of based on what four
Speaker 1: other people in the world think. So it's if though,
Speaker 1: if if the bill rings of those four of the people,
Speaker 1: then we're good. If not, then we just have to
Speaker 1: keep going. So is Miranda the first one to put
Speaker 1: it on hold? Well, I mean it honestly, it was
Speaker 1: one of those like you know, it was you know,
Speaker 1: it was like an atomic bomb. I mean, it was
Speaker 1: one of those palpable reactions where everybody loved it. Um
Speaker 1: you know, went on hold for literally everybody at the
Speaker 1: same time. And of course we were trying to get
Speaker 1: the song to Blake Shelton and you know, so the
Speaker 1: story goes, so Sony Terry Wakefield plays it for Scott Hendricks,
Speaker 1: who's producing Blake Shelton. Scott Hendrick sends the uh, you know,
Speaker 1: a tape or a CD with ten songs on it
Speaker 1: to Blake Shelton every week to listen to songs. He
Speaker 1: comes back from tour one wind swept Oklahoma night, he
Speaker 1: puts the CD in his truck and he's going down
Speaker 1: this highway and third song in it's the House of
Speaker 1: Building Me. His girlfriend at the time, starts weeping and
Speaker 1: he says, baby, what's wrong, And she says, that's my story.
Speaker 1: And he said, well, if that's your story, maybe that's
Speaker 1: your song. So if you want to get a song
Speaker 1: to Miranda Lambert, you work on it seven years, you
Speaker 1: pitch it to everybody, get it on hold for Blake Shelton,
Speaker 1: and Miranda hears it. So it's it's a it's a mysterious.
Speaker 1: Uh event, I have no idea how to get a
Speaker 1: song to Miranda Lambert. I really don't. So you get words,
Speaker 1: she's cutting the song, and at that point is that
Speaker 1: she's cutting it and we think it could be a
Speaker 1: single for the radio or is it Jess, she's cutting
Speaker 1: a song. She's cutting a song. But I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: most songwriters and I don't know, we really are fans.
Speaker 1: I mean we're fans of music, and we're fans of
Speaker 1: country artists, and we really we love country music. So
Speaker 1: everybody loves, loved and loves Miranda. And so the fact
Speaker 1: that as great a songwriter as she is, that she
Speaker 1: was cutting a song that she didn't write was you know,
Speaker 1: an equal honor. And so, you know, the producer Franklindell
Speaker 1: called me, you know, after she recorded it, and he came,
Speaker 1: you know, to his office and played it for him,
Speaker 1: and it was so stark. It was like, I mean,
Speaker 1: it was like it was like two guitars and a vocal.
Speaker 1: It was like I was like, I literally have said,
Speaker 1: you're not gonna put any drums on it. I mean,
Speaker 1: it was like it was just it was so like
Speaker 1: just bear that I was honestly I was. I was
Speaker 1: probably probably was discouraged. I was like, oh man, this
Speaker 1: is this is I don't know what this is, but
Speaker 1: this is it just doesn't sound like anything that i'd
Speaker 1: really heard before in country music. But thank goodness, they
Speaker 1: were true to their ideals and their art. And for
Speaker 1: both of you, Miranda and for you, this this is
Speaker 1: a career changer. Yeah it's it's yeah, yeah, it's a
Speaker 1: career changer. It certainly is, uh for Alan and me,
Speaker 1: and uh yeah, I mean it was, yeah, it was.
Speaker 1: I mean everything about it was just phenomenal. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: play it and to hear you talk about it and
Speaker 1: to hear it right here, just this place, it's broken
Speaker 1: when you hear it right now, removed a bit, yea,
Speaker 1: removed from the process, removed from the awards, Like, what
Speaker 1: do you think right now when you hear it's just
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's goose bumps. It's just it's something
Speaker 1: that you know, it's just it's I think it's that's
Speaker 1: what music is it it um you know her, she
Speaker 1: really has made the song her own, which is the
Speaker 1: ultimate compliment to a songwriter, and that's Miranda song. And
Speaker 1: it's just that's the greatest honor I think you can
Speaker 1: have as a writer. And it's you know, it's just
Speaker 1: it does what art is supposed to do, which is
Speaker 1: it It reduces our defenses. It opens us up and
Speaker 1: helps us not feel numb and feels something again. And
Speaker 1: so much of life is all about numbing us, you know,
Speaker 1: in the chaos of life. The headlines. Uh, it's it's
Speaker 1: it's a numbing you know. Uh, that's a numbing process.
Speaker 1: And that's I think art. That's what art does. It
Speaker 1: It reminds us to feel something again when you have
Speaker 1: a song like that and it's that big of a hit,
Speaker 1: and you've already had hits. We'll play some of the
Speaker 1: other other ones too, But do people start knocking on
Speaker 1: the door a lot more? You know what you would think? So,
Speaker 1: I mean we, you know, were Alan and I both
Speaker 1: we thought, all right, we're gonna try to leverage this
Speaker 1: to write with John Legend or Beyonce or Adele or
Speaker 1: you know, kind of you had visions of grandeur, and honestly,
Speaker 1: none of that materialized. I mean like nothing, it was
Speaker 1: like and I still don't I don't know why. Now.
Speaker 1: Oddly enough, over over time, you know, allan and I thought,
Speaker 1: you know, within the first year, we're gonna get all
Speaker 1: these very fascinating co writes, and it just it really
Speaker 1: didn't happen. I mean, we had, you know, we were
Speaker 1: able to write songs, but I don't know. I think
Speaker 1: we I think Allen and I got a little lost
Speaker 1: in the in the in the in the tidal wave
Speaker 1: of the song. Tell me about this one here, because
Speaker 1: I got a lot of them that what you talk about.
Speaker 1: I run to you from Lady Eggs. See you're right
Speaker 1: this with them, Yeah, all three of them, all three
Speaker 1: of them. So you know, as the publisher sets you
Speaker 1: up with the next big thing, you know, weekly, the
Speaker 1: next big thing in Nashville, there's a buzz all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, there's this fresh faced trio with kind of
Speaker 1: a crazy name, and um so that you know, Lady
Speaker 1: Annabellum is coming to your house in two weeks. So,
Speaker 1: I mean, and I love what they had done. I've
Speaker 1: heard their demos and I think I've seen them around
Speaker 1: playing and so you know, I'm as a professional songwriter,
Speaker 1: I'm supposed to have great ideas. That's why they're coming
Speaker 1: to you. So they show up and it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: with the successive day. I'm like, the more time I
Speaker 1: have to prepare air for something more paralyzed, I've become.
Speaker 1: So I had I couldn't run, I couldn't rhyme blue
Speaker 1: with you. So I'm running in the Nashville Marathon. Oddly enough,
Speaker 1: the weekend before, I followed this guy for five miles.
Speaker 1: He's got to run this town on the back of
Speaker 1: his T shirt. So I'm thinking metaphorically symbolically, I run
Speaker 1: this town like the mayor, like a mafia boss, like
Speaker 1: you know, from point A to point being. I'm delirious
Speaker 1: following this guy. I developed an intense hatred for the guy.
Speaker 1: Monday morning, they show up and they're gonna come at ten.
Speaker 1: I'm sick to my stomach. I'm thinking this, how is
Speaker 1: this possible? I've got and I have no ideas, and
Speaker 1: so literally they came, you know, eager, expectant, you know,
Speaker 1: for me to have a you know, at least a
Speaker 1: decent idea, and uh. I literally I put my hands
Speaker 1: down on the piano and up saying, you know, I
Speaker 1: run from haye and I run from prejudice. And as
Speaker 1: I was even singing that, I was thinking, I don't
Speaker 1: even know what it means, and I'm I wrote it.
Speaker 1: I wrote these words, and I opened up my my
Speaker 1: eyes to think they're packing their briefcases and leaving and
Speaker 1: they're like, man, that is that is brilliant. Of course,
Speaker 1: I said, I've been saving that for you for week.
Speaker 1: So unfortunately they hung in there and that was But
Speaker 1: you know, it's very poetic. It's odd words. You know,
Speaker 1: it's prejudice, pessimist. I mean, it's it's I love poetry.
Speaker 1: I'm really I'm I'm crazy about words, and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, words are important, They're important to me. But
Speaker 1: I really think people come to songs. I think I
Speaker 1: think people think the first I mean you would. I'd
Speaker 1: be curious to see what you say about this. So
Speaker 1: let me make a gross, sweeping generalization. Rhythm is the
Speaker 1: foundation of songs. What do you say to that. I
Speaker 1: think they a lot of songs that I love and
Speaker 1: I have no idea what the words are. But but
Speaker 1: I think more importantly than melody or chords or production,
Speaker 1: it's rhythm. Rhythm really is what rhythm is what draws
Speaker 1: us in um and I have really I haven't really
Speaker 1: paid attention to that through the last twenty four years.
Speaker 1: But the longer I'm doing this, the more and more
Speaker 1: I'm I'm at least paying attention to rhythm. There's this
Speaker 1: song now, yeah, if you're desposito Desposito, it's like the
Speaker 1: new most dream song ever, YouTube song ever. It's all Spanish.
Speaker 1: I don't know why I love it. It's got a
Speaker 1: rhythm of this. Oh yeah, I have I heard about
Speaker 1: it because it's the most stream song. Yeah, and again
Speaker 1: you say that I don't know a single word of
Speaker 1: its fascinating, but I listened to the whole thing and
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, do you get it? Like this is
Speaker 1: this my jam? I feel it like I know what.
Speaker 1: I don't know what they're saying, but I know what
Speaker 1: they're trying to say. Well, you're you're you know how
Speaker 1: it makes you feel, which is you know that. That's
Speaker 1: what they often say is that I'm not really I
Speaker 1: don't really remember what he said, but I know I
Speaker 1: remember how he made me feel. That's a lot of
Speaker 1: times that's what music. Does you teach songwriting? Well, yes,
Speaker 1: how do you teach songwriting? Like I want to take
Speaker 1: your class? Right? Well, I really specifically it's lyric writing,
Speaker 1: so you know, we do get into the whole thing
Speaker 1: of songwriting. But I still am affiliated with Belmont. Um,
Speaker 1: I love Belmont, But I taught lyric writing with my
Speaker 1: co talk with a friend of mine for five years,
Speaker 1: and um, you know, really, I mean lyric writing is uh,
Speaker 1: you know, it's just trying to get people to not
Speaker 1: edit what they do and just you have to kind
Speaker 1: of start free form. Um. I mean like literally, if
Speaker 1: we were going through an exercise would be like, let's
Speaker 1: you and I go to the Frist Museum and let's
Speaker 1: see whatever exhibit is there, and let's walk around those
Speaker 1: rooms and let's just let's just find a painting or
Speaker 1: a sculpture that means something to you that you just
Speaker 1: you just like, and then let's come back and maybe
Speaker 1: take a picture of it, and let's write a short
Speaker 1: story that you know that illuminates whatever this picture happens
Speaker 1: to be. And you know, so you write two and
Speaker 1: or fifty words and then you say, okay, so you know,
Speaker 1: if like, what's the main point from that tour or
Speaker 1: in fifty word essay, uh, you know, it's you know,
Speaker 1: it's you know, it's fear of flying. Uh, and you know,
Speaker 1: and so you just kind of start, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: lyric writing particularly is just it's just getting in touch
Speaker 1: with who you are, giving yourself permission to feel. And um,
Speaker 1: I think there are two types of songs and two
Speaker 1: kinds of songwriters. I'm always trying to remember something, and
Speaker 1: I think most people are trying to forget something. So
Speaker 1: every song I write is really about remembrance. But I
Speaker 1: mean the majority of songs that you play on your
Speaker 1: radio show, I think are about forgetting. Example of each place, Well, um,
Speaker 1: like what's the what's the number one song? And take
Speaker 1: um uh, take Thomas Rhett and Mary Morris a song. Okay,
Speaker 1: So that's that's about I think that's that's the whole thing.
Speaker 1: Makes you forget something, it's your uh. I mean, if
Speaker 1: I were to put myself, you know, in the mind
Speaker 1: of the writers, they're just they're they're just it's it's
Speaker 1: just about one small unique experience, which is it's a
Speaker 1: moment in time. It's a relationship, it's a thing, and
Speaker 1: it's it's you're not it's there's no there's no past
Speaker 1: and there's no future. It's just all right now. So
Speaker 1: it's to me, it's a disconnect from you know, from
Speaker 1: the before, and a disconnect from the after um, I
Speaker 1: mean any of those songs. I mean, the House of
Speaker 1: Built Me is you know, I'm trying to I've gotten
Speaker 1: lost and i can't remember where I'm from or to
Speaker 1: whom I belong, and it's just about coming back home
Speaker 1: and remembering who you are. We play this one here,
Speaker 1: Keith and Church when you rode this was it written
Speaker 1: for two people? You? No? No, And I mean honestly,
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Steele and I walked in on Jaren Johnston, who's
Speaker 1: an amazing songwriter in the being Cadillac three, and Jared
Speaker 1: kind of had this thing started and he had he
Speaker 1: had the title. So Jeffrey and I just were like
Speaker 1: kids in a candy store. And all all we started
Speaker 1: do is we just we just started every I mean
Speaker 1: you'd like literally we just sat there and thought, let's
Speaker 1: connect everything that could possibly connected with the words raise
Speaker 1: them up, and let's just fill the verses full with that.
Speaker 1: So raise up a glass, raise up a sale, raise
Speaker 1: up a you know, raise a toast, you know, raise
Speaker 1: up a flag, you know, raise up a child. It's
Speaker 1: just I mean that that's that is just kind of
Speaker 1: a free form association of of of one of three
Speaker 1: words raise them up, did that would feel good? And
Speaker 1: completely finished it? Yeah? That was that was That was quick.
Speaker 1: It was one day Jaran does these amazing little demos
Speaker 1: and um, I mean I think we played it for
Speaker 1: a few people. But then when we heard Keith loved it,
Speaker 1: that was amazing. And but then, I mean, then we
Speaker 1: have heard this through the you know, through the years.
Speaker 1: I don't I mean Keith didn't say this, but I've
Speaker 1: heard people say that he got a little bit it
Speaker 1: uncomfortable with the fact that he's Australian and there's a
Speaker 1: patriotic verse and he was like, I don't know if
Speaker 1: I can pull this off in an Australian gasling about
Speaker 1: you know, fist black and blue, fight for the truth?
Speaker 1: Can you can? He sing? And I think it's the producer,
Speaker 1: like Nathan Chapman said, well, what if we got, you know,
Speaker 1: somebody to come in and sing it with you? And
Speaker 1: I think he just said that's brilliantly. So I don't
Speaker 1: know if that was Keith's idea or Nathan's, but somebody
Speaker 1: had a great idea to get Eric Church involved and
Speaker 1: that was that was That was amazing. Nobody boy American
Speaker 1: and Eric Church, That's right. It's about as American as
Speaker 1: a Ya's Wow, what a story. I love this George
Speaker 1: Straight song I got and to get George the song, well,
Speaker 1: George Straight loves Keith Gadus. Keith Gaddis is a real
Speaker 1: He's a real cowboyot so that's I wrote that with Keith.
Speaker 1: And I mean, I'm not ain't this to be disingenuous. Honestly,
Speaker 1: I sat there while Keith kind of wrote that song,
Speaker 1: and I just was like, that's great, that's great. Can
Speaker 1: I get you more coffee? That's amazing? Um, And he does,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean Keith Gaddis he you know, he
Speaker 1: still is an artist, but I mean he's he just
Speaker 1: he you know, he just bleeds that West Texas you know,
Speaker 1: cattle rancher, which is George Straight. So you say that
Speaker 1: that you sat there, But if you're writing, you know,
Speaker 1: and you're a lot of time, you know, a thousands
Speaker 1: sounds of songs, does it kind of balance out where
Speaker 1: they're also songs that you wrote and somebody else has
Speaker 1: sat there? Well yeah, and and yes, yes, I mean
Speaker 1: there are days where you're the editor in their days
Speaker 1: where you're the artist in the room. Um, so you
Speaker 1: just you just kind of there can't be I think
Speaker 1: you can't. There can't be two artists they compete, and
Speaker 1: there can't be two editors. Somebody's got to take the lead.
Speaker 1: So I have done this long enough that I really
Speaker 1: I do want to facilitate whatever's that. We just want
Speaker 1: to honor the song. What does the song need? That's
Speaker 1: what I want to you know, that's what I want
Speaker 1: to do. That's really interesting that you you say it
Speaker 1: like that, because no one said it before. Where you're
Speaker 1: kind of filling roles and the role is gonna be
Speaker 1: feel differently each time you write a song, right, But
Speaker 1: somebody's driving and somebody's got the map out right. That
Speaker 1: that's and I haven't been able to articulate like that,
Speaker 1: but that's exactly like we've got a destination. The destination
Speaker 1: is the song. The journey is the process. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: you you that can't be two drivers and it can't
Speaker 1: be two navigators. Man, you should really write songs because
Speaker 1: it's it's fantastic, fantastic. How about this on here back
Speaker 1: with Mamma's the porch, come on in, suffers on the
Speaker 1: stove and beers and every when the song came out
Speaker 1: and for me I grew up listening to him on
Speaker 1: the radio. Guy grew up and it was Garth and
Speaker 1: Tim and you know even you play calling right like
Speaker 1: that to me was when I was listening to Kiss
Speaker 1: the ninety six and on the rock are u s
Speaker 1: ninety seven and Hot Springs, those are the artists on
Speaker 1: and I remember, you know, Tim growing up listening to
Speaker 1: it just to start with obviously any out Long and
Speaker 1: Don't Take the Girl, like his first couple of singles,
Speaker 1: and then following him all the way up. And when
Speaker 1: this song came out, I was actually on the radio
Speaker 1: getting to play it. I was like, man, this is
Speaker 1: so traditionally progressive. It was almost like a rewind song
Speaker 1: that still sounded like today. When you write a song
Speaker 1: like that, do you feel like you're doing that, like
Speaker 1: you're trying to take a step back. I don't know,
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think it's as I don't think
Speaker 1: it's as conscious as that. You know, we're all the
Speaker 1: everything we do is the you know, summation of everything
Speaker 1: that that you know that's come before us. So we're
Speaker 1: all we're borrowing from ourselves, We're borrowing from I mean
Speaker 1: that is very similar to you know, just to see
Speaker 1: you smile, just to see you smile. But the trend, though,
Speaker 1: was not that when that song came out. I know,
Speaker 1: I mean that's the magic of Tim McGraw who continues
Speaker 1: to reinvent himself and kind of defy tradition. When it
Speaker 1: gets real, you know, real progressive, he'll do that. And
Speaker 1: then when it gets real country, he'll do you know,
Speaker 1: you know, live like you're dying. I mean, he is
Speaker 1: a you know, he's a he's a metamorphosis. You have
Speaker 1: a lot of Tim cuts, and I mean I have
Speaker 1: five up here and you may have more than that.
Speaker 1: But so are you in the what they call Tim
Speaker 1: camp where he he I love Tim mcgrawl. And again,
Speaker 1: I mean he has recorded more of my songs anybody, so,
Speaker 1: so temps recording more of you than anybody knows. So
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I mean if Tim and I
Speaker 1: are friends, but you know, I mean, as artists, they
Speaker 1: have to be like, what's the best for this wreck
Speaker 1: at this particular moment. So at the same time that
Speaker 1: they have a voice. And if someone has a voice
Speaker 1: like your inner voice, and you're like, man, they actually speak,
Speaker 1: they speak like I speak. Do you feel like you
Speaker 1: didn't have that. Well, excuse me, yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean he has three children. I have
Speaker 1: three children. Um. The way I really got connected to
Speaker 1: him was was through Grown Indo Cry. That was the
Speaker 1: first song he had. And then, uh, he invited me
Speaker 1: to come out to California when he was doing the
Speaker 1: movie Flicker because they needed an entitle for the movie.
Speaker 1: And so I went out there and I spent a
Speaker 1: couple of nights on the set with him and met
Speaker 1: Billy Bob Thornton and it was an amazing experience. But
Speaker 1: just trying to soak up the sights and sounds of
Speaker 1: that movie and uh, so you know, yeah, there's certainly
Speaker 1: commonalities to his life. I think we probably, you know,
Speaker 1: in some ways the way we look at life and
Speaker 1: think are similar. This one here, Well, I love I
Speaker 1: love the South. I love my daughters and my wife.
Speaker 1: I went to Old miss So I spent a lot
Speaker 1: of time in Oxford, Oxford, Mississippi. Oxford has this amazing
Speaker 1: bookstore called Square Books. And you walk in Square Books
Speaker 1: and it's got um a great poster that says, you know, uh, Southerners,
Speaker 1: we may not know how to uh talk, but we
Speaker 1: sure know how to write. And they have pictures of
Speaker 1: Udora Welty and you know, Robert pin Warren, William Faulkner
Speaker 1: and Flannery O'Connor, and I just I just started thinking
Speaker 1: about the distinctive way that Southerners think, talk and the
Speaker 1: way that we look at the world. It really is
Speaker 1: is very different than other parts of the country, and
Speaker 1: just kind of what a Southern voice is. And so
Speaker 1: my friend Bob Depiro, who's from you know, it's not
Speaker 1: he's from Ohio, but he you know that that really
Speaker 1: was so fun to write because we just kind of
Speaker 1: name checked every famous Southerner that there was, from Michael
Speaker 1: Jordan's to you know, Bear Bryant to Billy Graham to
Speaker 1: Dale Earnhardt. It was just that was that was a
Speaker 1: fun one to write. Did you write today? I did
Speaker 1: right today. How do you feel bout Today's right? Well,
Speaker 1: today it was with my least favorite co writer, which
Speaker 1: is myself. So I was I was working on a
Speaker 1: song by myself. Uh so it's it's you know, it's
Speaker 1: it is. The songs that right by myself are different. Um,
Speaker 1: but you know it's I don't know, it's it's kind
Speaker 1: of a beautiful, torturous relationship. You know, when you're right
Speaker 1: by yourself, I really do like it. It's uh, I
Speaker 1: love co writing, but I do I really like writing
Speaker 1: by myself as well. How hard is it to remember
Speaker 1: all the writers did you write with? Because you throughout
Speaker 1: a number that you've been how many songs you don't
Speaker 1: know every code writer you've wtten with. People were like, hey,
Speaker 1: you wrote this song. Is it a hard do you
Speaker 1: have to let go back and cramp sometimes? Well? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I was like, you know, in the last year,
Speaker 1: I was at a restaurant. I was eating dinner with
Speaker 1: some friends and it was a coat. It was a
Speaker 1: songwriter and his wife and this girl comes up to
Speaker 1: the table and they're talking and because my friend Barry Dean,
Speaker 1: he says, this is Stephanie, and uh, I said, Stephanie,
Speaker 1: some nice to meet you. And she said, well, actually
Speaker 1: we've written together. And I was like, that's embarrassing, and
Speaker 1: I trickly tried to quickly try to recover. Oh yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: I remember that it was but anyway, yeah, it's uh.
Speaker 1: But you know, we're all kind of about the songwriters
Speaker 1: are about all the next thing, like whatever has happened
Speaker 1: in the past, it's just it just doesn't matter. Songs
Speaker 1: in a sense, even the catalog, all these songs, I mean,
Speaker 1: they sound amazing. It's almost like it shocks me to
Speaker 1: hear the songs because i' songs in a sense become
Speaker 1: poison and that they will try to destroy you. So
Speaker 1: and what I mean by that is is what they
Speaker 1: do is they try to keep you in the past,
Speaker 1: and they try to prevent you from going on to
Speaker 1: the next thing. And as a writer, we have to
Speaker 1: be all about the next, the next thing. You know,
Speaker 1: the best song, it's the best song I've written, it's
Speaker 1: the next one. So you come to Nashville and eight
Speaker 1: you move away. A few years later, you move back
Speaker 1: in two thousand nine or so, you win the triple.
Speaker 1: You have a triple play three number ones in the
Speaker 1: same year. That's like movie type stuff. Well, you know
Speaker 1: it should give everybody that's you know that's still I mean,
Speaker 1: we're all aspiring, but someone that's you know that hadn't
Speaker 1: quite figured it out yet. I mean, I didn't get
Speaker 1: my first country song recorded tilst forty one. And you know,
Speaker 1: if you love it, you just you just stay with it,
Speaker 1: and it's it's a gift and you know, you just
Speaker 1: try to enjoy the god given gift of creativity and
Speaker 1: be about it, share your music with anybody and everybody
Speaker 1: that will listen. And I'm just looking at some notes
Speaker 1: here even it's just wild that you've been relevant so long,
Speaker 1: from calling Ray to Brett Elder. It's something I'm good
Speaker 1: at and with I say relevant, Like on the progressive side,
Speaker 1: you've been progressive for so long, Like that's quite the
Speaker 1: span of time to be progressive, because progression always eventually
Speaker 1: it's caught. Well, I do think about that, you know,
Speaker 1: I think one of the keys to you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: of course I'm I'm now. You know, it used to
Speaker 1: be I was like the father in the room, and
Speaker 1: now I'm the grandfather in the room. So that I
Speaker 1: think one of the ways to do that is is
Speaker 1: just to embrace that. But you know, it's continuing to
Speaker 1: I mean, I collaborate with a lot of very young people,
Speaker 1: you know, people that are like, you know, like you know,
Speaker 1: I asked, I'll, you know, come up like how old
Speaker 1: are your like, how how old are your parents? Forty five?
Speaker 1: You know, I was like, so you just you have
Speaker 1: to keep working younger, writing younger, and you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm trying to write the perfect song. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm just I'm driven to, you know, try
Speaker 1: to get better. Like that Brett Elder song. It's nuts.
Speaker 1: If you talk about rhythm, rhythm, I mean, that's a
Speaker 1: perfect case of what I'm talking about. But I mean
Speaker 1: that's again I was. I had tortured Brett for about
Speaker 1: three hours trying to write, like we'd written a song
Speaker 1: that we both love called one Mississippi that was on
Speaker 1: his first album. Loved that song, by the way, and
Speaker 1: we were trying to write that part two and just
Speaker 1: couldn't do it. And so Brett said finally was like, hey,
Speaker 1: what if we just and he just started banging out
Speaker 1: some rhythm and I just got my notebook and I
Speaker 1: just started jotting stuff down a voice, me moving him
Speaker 1: doing it, and you know, probably within an hour we
Speaker 1: kind of had it and just thought, well, at least
Speaker 1: that was like a cathartic experience. It was a cleanse
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, I mean, but that's I was
Speaker 1: just I was Brett Eldridge's lightning in a bottle and
Speaker 1: I was just trying to capture it. He's he's magic.
Speaker 1: This is Gwyneth patro song coming Home Again. That's a
Speaker 1: that's a veer. Yeah, right, she's playing a singer. Yes,
Speaker 1: she can sing. Yes, Yeah, it was that was yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it was that was Was it written for
Speaker 1: this Yes? No. So you know, Sony kind of had
Speaker 1: an inside track when This Country Strong was being made,
Speaker 1: and so everybody in town, you know, started writing songs
Speaker 1: for it. But you literally got a script and to
Speaker 1: be like, I love writing songs for movies, So you
Speaker 1: write a script. I mean in the script is like,
Speaker 1: you know, describe the scene and you know, song needed here,
Speaker 1: and so I got with you know, Hillary Lindsay and
Speaker 1: Troy Vergis and Bob the Bureau and we you know,
Speaker 1: we wrote that together. But yeah, we were writing that
Speaker 1: for the movie. And honestly, Hillary Lindsay is like, we
Speaker 1: ever have you ever heard her sing? Oh? Yeah, we
Speaker 1: play a lot of it. I mean, so she's just
Speaker 1: so she was singing, and it was just we were
Speaker 1: just all transported to another realm. But yeah, that that
Speaker 1: was we That was Ken. Weird to see your song
Speaker 1: in the movie. It is. Yeah, of course it wasn't
Speaker 1: really in the movie that long, but you know, it's
Speaker 1: not Chicago, but even for a second. Yeah, yeah, but
Speaker 1: that was we got to go to the Golden Globes
Speaker 1: and the Oscar So that was that was that was crazy.
Speaker 1: What impresses your your family, your kids now, because you've
Speaker 1: done a lot, like what oppresses you know? I mean,
Speaker 1: I think they've been around it so long. Now. I
Speaker 1: do have a twenty six year old daughter and she's
Speaker 1: writing songs with my encouragement, and so you know, we
Speaker 1: kind of we talk shop and um, I mean I'm
Speaker 1: encouraging her and she's encouraging me. I mean, my wife
Speaker 1: is honestly read. She's co written every song I've ever ridden,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, I've made her listen to almost
Speaker 1: every song, and she's great. She is not impressed with me,
Speaker 1: she's not impressed in music, but she she's got a
Speaker 1: great year. So occasionally, you know, I mean, she'll she'll often,
Speaker 1: you know, have a suggestion here there, and I'll begrudgingly
Speaker 1: have to have to follow it. I want to hear
Speaker 1: this demo one more time at the house to build me.
Speaker 1: It's so good. You had to be like this could
Speaker 1: be a thing when you cut this yet, like this
Speaker 1: could be the song. Well, Honestly, we think that every
Speaker 1: song we write, but even you sing it like this here,
Speaker 1: even with my vocal, every song were right, and there's
Speaker 1: a point in the process where you think this is
Speaker 1: the best songs I've written, only to be you know,
Speaker 1: disappointed about thirty minutes later. But I think you have
Speaker 1: to Jimmy what I have to scret song where it
Speaker 1: talks about suspending disbelief, you have to suspend the disbelief
Speaker 1: while you're writing to be able to write it, and
Speaker 1: you have to kind of think, God, this is you
Speaker 1: just get caught up in the magic and mystery of
Speaker 1: collaboration when you finish that. Because I have a problem
Speaker 1: with when I write, like a book or whatever I'm
Speaker 1: doing creatively, I hate it for a while. Yeah, do
Speaker 1: you ever reach that point where you've been inside of
Speaker 1: it so much that you just don't even know? Like
Speaker 1: where was I? What was I don't even understand what
Speaker 1: I'm trying to do here? Yeah, I mean I feel
Speaker 1: like that constantly. But again, I think the thing that
Speaker 1: we have to tell ourselves is, look, that's somebody else's
Speaker 1: responsibility to make those value judgments. You're that's not your job.
Speaker 1: You're that's the job of the publisher, of of somebody else.
Speaker 1: I think when we get too much in the headset
Speaker 1: of a critic or a somebody on the business end
Speaker 1: of it, it's somehow thwarts the creative process. So, you know,
Speaker 1: it's like the critic in our head is you know,
Speaker 1: that's the arch enemy that we have to We just
Speaker 1: have to constantly try to silence the critic who's trying
Speaker 1: to get you not the right or to be too critical,
Speaker 1: or you know, just to be inside your head instead
Speaker 1: of you know, being on the paper, being present. It's
Speaker 1: a it takes great mental discipline to do this, don't
Speaker 1: you think I don't have it, like and again, all right,
Speaker 1: in a lot of different ways, you know, constent up
Speaker 1: comedy books, you know. But my discipline is just continuing
Speaker 1: to do it. But there's nothing that I do and
Speaker 1: I come away from it going that was good. Ever,
Speaker 1: because I get inside of it and I'm like, this
Speaker 1: is not funny anymore, this is not good anymore, This
Speaker 1: is not compelling, and I just want to run away
Speaker 1: from it. Every time I want to run away. But well,
Speaker 1: I know, I mean I feel like that too. I am,
Speaker 1: so I get so dissatisfied. I just you know you could.
Speaker 1: It's it's just it's up and down. The last couple
Speaker 1: of weeks, all I can think about is all the
Speaker 1: time I've wasted and all the all the opportunities I missed.
Speaker 1: I really am, I've just been. And then I started
Speaker 1: singing the scoreboard clocks shows up again. I'm like, wow,
Speaker 1: am I am? I take am? I am? I using
Speaker 1: the time that I have, you know, to its greatest
Speaker 1: asset and you know that those are That's okay to
Speaker 1: do that for a while, but you've gotta get rescued
Speaker 1: from that otherwise you just again that's start. When I
Speaker 1: do that, I'm like, all right, I'm worrying about the
Speaker 1: the end result, which is is Tim mcgrawl or Blake Shelter,
Speaker 1: Is anybody going to care about this? And then when
Speaker 1: when when you get there, then you're you're kind of sunk.
Speaker 1: Get to quickly get off that and be like, oh
Speaker 1: wait a minute, that doesn't matter. What matters is the
Speaker 1: next song I gotta write. So how much do I
Speaker 1: owe you for this? Our class? I just took, like
Speaker 1: these kids coming up, this has been like therapy. I
Speaker 1: should pay you about four just to listen to it.
Speaker 1: Probably in the well. I've enjoyed it has been. This
Speaker 1: has been a fun hour for me. I appreciate you
Speaker 1: coming by. Can people take your class? Get there? Leg well?
Speaker 1: I honestly, I got so busy I don't have time.
Speaker 1: I didn't I've had to temporarily halt teaching at Belmont.
Speaker 1: But I mean, I'm very involved with the n s
Speaker 1: a I, which is a great organization. And uh, I
Speaker 1: I love talking is I'm not really teaching. I'm I'm
Speaker 1: co learning with somebody. So it's like I love talking
Speaker 1: about it, I love working through it. Um, we really,
Speaker 1: you know, creative people, we really we need community, We
Speaker 1: need each other, We need people to remind us of,
Speaker 1: you know, of of all that we've got and um,
Speaker 1: you know, all that we're doing and all that we're
Speaker 1: doing well, you know, because I think the default, the
Speaker 1: normal default position in my mind is just to think
Speaker 1: of all that I haven't done well and the you know,
Speaker 1: all the time that I've wasted. But U it's been
Speaker 1: very encouraging for me today. But I'm telling you, I mean,
Speaker 1: you may not see it like that, but you're you're
Speaker 1: you're incredibly creative and you're it's not contrived and it's
Speaker 1: fluid and it's fun, and it's it's transparent. It takes
Speaker 1: you know, and you you do risk a lot, but
Speaker 1: I mean that's that's part of that's part of what
Speaker 1: we love about what you do is that it's it's
Speaker 1: somehow you know, when you're when you're willing to risk transparency,
Speaker 1: it allows other people to kind of overlay their life
Speaker 1: onto onto what you're doing and kind of live vicariously
Speaker 1: through it. So that's all we're trying to do is
Speaker 1: just continue to you know, kind of create art that
Speaker 1: other people can can. You know, when we see the
Speaker 1: Mona Lisa, we're like, there's something about her smile that
Speaker 1: allows us to overlay our life on that, or Harry
Speaker 1: Potter or you know, to kill a mock bird or
Speaker 1: you know, it's like that's what art. That's what I think.
Speaker 1: That's why God gave us art is it allows us
Speaker 1: to um, you know, find out something about ourselves, you know.
Speaker 1: But the key to it has got to be transparent
Speaker 1: and vulnerable. And that's at I'm not easy to do.
Speaker 1: I've enjoyed the hour. I've really enjoyed the hour. Oh man,
Speaker 1: I feel like I just went back to school. Episode
Speaker 1: seventy one with Tom Douglas and I'm gonna go revalue.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna look a the scoreboard in my bedroom, reevaluate
Speaker 1: a LoVa and do it. And thanks Tomas, I'll buy
Speaker 1: enjoying it. I'll see you next time. Thank you everybody,