WEBVTT - #71 - Tom Douglas - Wrote "The House That Built Me" and more 0:00:01.600 --> 0:00:05.240 Alright, Episode seventy one of the Bobby Cast with the 0:00:05.240 --> 0:00:07.960 writer Tom Douglas. Hey Tom, are you? It's good to 0:00:08.000 --> 0:00:11.320 see him in. So many people say so many great 0:00:11.320 --> 0:00:13.319 things about you. It's finally nice to get you in here. 0:00:14.320 --> 0:00:17.680 How long have you been in Nashville? Well, I came, 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:21.720 uh the first time, from nineteen eighty to eighty four, 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:25.720 and then I left in eighty four never to return, 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:30.040 and moved back in nineteen seven. So now I've been 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:32.800 that much of a gap. Humph. They're just give or 0:00:32.840 --> 0:00:37.479 take thirteen years. But yeah, now I've been back twenty years. 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:40.639 So it's a uh it is. You know, for some 0:00:40.720 --> 0:00:44.600 people it seems very direct, but for me, it was 0:00:44.640 --> 0:00:47.400 a very circuitous route. So one of the things I 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:48.600 like to do is kind of let people know what 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:50.159 they're what they're getting here. I'm gonna play a few 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:51.480 of your songs and then we'll just kind of start 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:54.440 back over. So you wrote The House that Built Me, 0:00:58.680 --> 0:01:01.600 which is just a game angel for anybody, And we'll 0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:03.200 come back around to that one in a second. So 0:01:03.920 --> 0:01:12.679 the House that Built Me Southern Voice with Tim I 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:21.600 run to you from Lady A. I mean, I have 0:01:21.640 --> 0:01:23.440 a lot of them I'm just getting people a taste here. 0:01:23.600 --> 0:01:26.759 They know the greatness that they're hearing. Raise them up, 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:33.520 sailing sco. It's just too key, class of you in 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:39.600 making it too some good stuff and I'm gonna hit 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:41.360 him with some some other stuff in a minute. Anyway, 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:46.800 So you come here in nineteen eight to do what well, 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:51.200 you know, I grew so I grew up in Atlanta. Um, 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:56.160 I grew up in a household where uh, education and 0:01:56.280 --> 0:01:59.640 job security were really there with a two pre eminent 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:05.320 uh you know, parts of my life and my childhood. 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:07.680 My that's kind of what what was preached to me 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:11.680 by my parents. My father was very musical and love music, 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:14.880 and really he loved songs. I mean, kind of looking back, 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:17.720 I have some perspective. So music was a big part 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:21.760 of our household. But um, you know, I mean my 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:25.000 mom worked, my dad worked. I mean, they really did 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:27.320 a lot to try to get me educated. So it 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:29.080 sounds like they wouldn't want you to have a creative 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:31.360 job where there's not a lot of security. No, it 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:33.360 would be I mean for me to have told my 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:36.040 parents that I was gonna like so I go to 0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:40.400 college and graduate school. And I really did try to 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:44.280 assimilate into the real world. And I did for a 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:47.359 while until I was twenty seven. Then I just thought, 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:50.320 you know, the call of Nashville was so strong that 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:53.640 I just I didn't really have a great plan, but 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:57.400 I talked a publisher in Atlanta into letting me pitches 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:00.440 songs in Nashville. It was Bill Lowry. It was a 0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:03.920 kind of revered publisher in Atlanta. And I came up here, 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:07.600 and you know, I just got enough money to pitch 0:03:07.639 --> 0:03:10.960 songs and I started meeting people. I just I just 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:13.320 wanted to be in Nashville. It was you know, it's 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:17.240 the it's the it's almost like the siren, you know 0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:21.160 in the in mythology where she's calling you, beckoning you. 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:22.600 Why do you think that? Why did you want to 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:26.000 come to Nashville so that well, I just I think 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:29.359 it represented songs. It just, uh, were you writing the 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:31.840 whole time you're working? No, Well, I mean, you know, 0:03:31.880 --> 0:03:35.240 I've written since I was twelve, so I've always you know, 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:38.000 had a poetic band. I've always loved stories, I've always 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:40.960 loved songs. I never aspired to be an artist, but 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:44.080 I just, you know, I just always wrote. It was 0:03:44.160 --> 0:03:46.040 just it was the way that I looked at life, 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:50.040 and uh, you know, uh, it's it was just kind 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:52.400 of the the filter through which, you know, I saw 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:55.240 everything through songs and through stories. So it was very 0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:57.880 just second nature to me. I didn't realize that it 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:00.480 was kind of unique. I thought everybody looked at life 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:04.520 like that, but um, you know, I just was like, 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:09.280 you know, I was twenty seven. I didn't really I 0:04:09.360 --> 0:04:11.920 just I just had to do it. It was just 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:16.200 kind of an unexplainable desire to to be here, just 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:19.440 to just to get here. So, you know, I just 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:21.960 kind of loaded up and I just came got an 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:25.200 apartment and just that I just I just wanted to 0:04:25.240 --> 0:04:28.080 soak up the sights and the sounds and the people 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:30.320 and what was it? What was what's Nashville like in 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:33.479 nineteen eighty and who was here? Like, who were the 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:36.400 big names? Was Nashville like nine when you moved? Well, 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:41.160 it was gosh, I hadn't really thought that much about 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:45.640 that in a long time. It was like what was happening? Well, okay. 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:48.080 So the reason why I'm a little disconnected from that 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:50.920 is because, strangely enough, I did not grow up listening 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:55.160 to country music. So I grew up listening to you know, 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:57.599 the I mean, I think everybody thinks they grew up 0:04:57.640 --> 0:04:59.840 in the Golden era of music, but I grew up 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:05.680 with like literally, in August of nineteen sixty four, the 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:09.640 first concert I went to was Atlanta Fulton County Stadium. 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:14.640 I saw the Beatles to play, so um. Then I 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:17.520 grew up with you know, the Beatles and you know 0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:21.200 and Elton John and Springsteen and Jackson Brown. I mean 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:24.120 that was really I grew up loving the songs of 0:05:24.240 --> 0:05:27.279 Jimmy Webb and Chris Christofferson and Hank Williams. But I 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:30.360 didn't I didn't listen to country music. So I came 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:32.040 up here and I still, you know, it was like 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:34.000 a fish out of water. I didn't really know what 0:05:34.040 --> 0:05:38.040 was going on in music. Row um, and looking back, 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:40.039 I don't know, I'd have to think about what was 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:43.800 going on. I wonder what kind of piqued my curiosity. 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:48.120 You saw the Beatles in nineteen in a in a stadium. 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:52.400 How does that sound? Because the technology of one playing 0:05:52.440 --> 0:05:54.800 a baseball statim is not that good anyway, even today, 0:05:55.000 --> 0:05:57.720 it's it's not the greatest environment for music, and they do. 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:01.760 But then, right, could you hear them over the screen. 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:07.159 I mean, um, I I still it's indelibly etched in 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:11.320 my mind, maybe a quarter mile Like I got on 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:16.000 a bus, a yellow school bus with twenty other kids 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:18.159 my age, and a couple of mothers and a couple 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:22.040 of teachers, and we just went to see the Beatles. 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:23.520 I mean it was, I mean, it was like, I mean, 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:27.760 so this is like, you know, this is Elvis, you know, 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:31.320 creates a revolution in nineteen fifty four, so this is 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:37.080 like only ten years later. And I mean literally, girls screaming, 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:40.279 or was a quarter mile before you got to the stadium. 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:42.680 You could hear the screen, you could hear the screams, 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:46.520 and it was I mean from the moment they started 0:06:46.960 --> 0:06:50.880 until you know, until we got a quarter mile away. 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:54.440 The girls screamed and literally they had like four vox 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:57.599 amps and they were singing over the p a of 0:06:57.680 --> 0:07:01.040 the of the Brave Stadium. That has to sound terrible 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:05.840 now again to today's standards, But do you remember hearing 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:08.560 and knowing the songs was the screen? It was? It 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:12.440 was it was a transcendent experience. It was it was 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:17.000 just it was just something that, um, I'll never forget. 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:18.880 It was. I mean, it was truly it was. It 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:22.520 was mysterious and magical, and uh, I mean it was. 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:25.640 I don't know, it's it's sounded amazing, you know, even 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:28.280 though you couldn't hear them, it was almost like they 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:32.360 were miming. But you you know, it's funny sometimes you 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:35.800 can hear the songs in your head, which is almost 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:38.040 as good as you know, somebody singing if you know 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:41.400 the songs that well. So, so you were about how 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:43.160 old I was? I think, I mean so I was 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:46.040 born in nineteen fifty three, so I was eleven. Well 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:48.720 as an eleven year old, your folks are cool with 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:52.640 you going to watch the I can't imagine that. I don't. 0:07:52.680 --> 0:07:54.960 I have no idea how my parents let me do it. 0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:58.040 I mean it was, it was, It was be it was, 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:00.320 but you know, it's a different time. It was pretty 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:03.280 innocent and up and as I say, you know, my 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:06.960 father loved it. I mean he kind of lived vicariously 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:09.880 through me. I think. So, I mean they were like, 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:11.600 didn't seem like that big of a deal. But now 0:08:11.680 --> 0:08:14.600 looking back, like what I let my eleven year old 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:18.960 children go to Bridgestone and see Justin Bieber. Justin Bieber, 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:21.600 I mean I'd have to go with him, you know, 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:25.560 or my wife would. But anyway, yeah, so I mean 0:08:25.600 --> 0:08:29.480 that was kind of my that was my start, and uh, 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:31.840 you know, and then I get to National nineteen eighty 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:33.800 from eighty four and I really I just kind of 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:37.240 wander around. I just meet people. I pitched songs. I'm 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:41.160 learning how to write songs, and you know, I uh, 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:44.880 I tour managed a band that went to Europe. And 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:47.679 you went to Europe. Oh yeah, I mean I was 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:51.680 the worst tour manager in the history of concert promotion 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:56.320 in nineteen eight Sorry sorry, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Right 0:08:56.400 --> 0:08:58.280 in the early eighties, you flew on a airplane across 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:00.520 the ocean? Did that not scare the How about to you? 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:04.440 But you could still smoke cigarettes? How about that? So 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:06.839 I would sit on the back of a plane. There 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:10.560 was a curtain separating first class from economy, and you know, 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:12.880 people are just smoking cigarettes on a plane. How crazy 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:14.880 is that? I guess not that crazy because it was 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:17.800 always allowed and understood just the way it was. I 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:20.640 get scared flying over water right now, with technology, I 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:23.679 cannot I can't imagine, Like, so you're going, you're you're 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:25.200 doing anything to eat? It sounds like you're just trying 0:09:25.200 --> 0:09:28.400 to Yeah, so I'm just getting by. I'm giving blood 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:30.840 at a blood bank. Um, you know, you're just doing 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:33.680 whatever you're doing. But you know it's thrilling and exciting 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:38.240 and uh but at the end of the time, so 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:42.080 you know. So now it's nineteen eighty four and I'm 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:45.839 thirty one. So I've got all this education. All my 0:09:45.920 --> 0:09:50.520 friends are yeah, you know, I have gotten married. They've 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:54.840 got their first job and their second promotion, and you know, 0:09:54.880 --> 0:09:57.920 and I just feel like, golly, now I've wasted ten 0:09:58.000 --> 0:10:00.360 years of my life. It was it was very wrestling. 0:10:00.360 --> 0:10:02.400 Do you have any songs at this point that I 0:10:02.480 --> 0:10:06.720 had done anything at all? Um? And I mean it 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:11.599 was really it was you know, I mean, Nashville's hard today, 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:14.040 but you know, when you don't have anything going on 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:16.880 that look from the outside looking in, Nashville is a 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:19.840 very lonely place. So you know, at that time, I 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:23.760 just so I got up. I gotta do something else. 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:27.400 So I had met my wife to be, we got engaged, 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:29.440 and I moved to Texas and tried to put all 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:31.480 this behind me, and I got in the real estate business. 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:34.960 So you were out, you were never coming back. I 0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:38.040 was just that was what broke you though? What was 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:44.080 the final straw? Well, I mean, honestly, I mean there 0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:48.120 you know, there's always, you know, parallel things going on 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:51.960 in your life. My father had gotten ill, and so 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:54.840 I brought my father up from Atlanta to live with me. 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:59.320 And really the combination of my father being ill, caring 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:02.960 for him, you know, nothing going on in music, making 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:07.079 no money. I was thirty one, and you know, I've 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:11.280 always I've always had this vision of like a scoreboard clock, 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:15.400 and I always see this occasionally, you know, I'll see 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:18.559 the scoreboard clock and the numbers are just winding down, 0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:21.319 and it always feels like I'm running out of time. 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:25.000 And so it's like the scoreboard clock. It doesn't always 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:28.120 it's not always as big as it is. But at 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:30.760 that time, I remember the thinking, man, I am, I've 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:34.040 wasted time, and now I'm running out of time. I've 0:11:34.040 --> 0:11:37.000 got my father. So the truth is, I mean, the 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:42.200 combination of you know, the demoralization of being in Nashville 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:45.959 and caring for my father, I just said, I gotta 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:48.960 do something different. So my I went to Texas and 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:51.400 moved in with my sister and brother in law, who 0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:54.160 graciously allowed my father not to move in with him. 0:11:54.160 --> 0:11:57.679 I was like, I gotta start all over again. When 0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:01.480 that was and so you started selling, well, I got 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:05.160 in commercial real estate so and as poorly as I've 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:08.600 done in music, I really the real estate commercial real 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:12.240 estate world was terrible. Because you're too young to remember this, 0:12:12.320 --> 0:12:16.440 but interest rates went up to like interest rates today 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:18.800 or four and a half percent, and there was a 0:12:18.840 --> 0:12:22.559 savings and loan crisis, and so everything really just stopped. 0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:27.600 So I was kind of just spinning my wheels again 0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:31.880 being in Texas. But you know, I was getting married 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:35.680 and you know, starting to have children. I mean, you know, 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:38.680 I was. I was doing fine. It wasn't like I was, 0:12:38.800 --> 0:12:42.880 you know, in some cataconic, catatonic depression, but I was 0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:47.760 just I was just starting over now. I really, honestly, 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:50.440 I really did. I tried to put the whole music 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:53.600 thing behind me. I didn't really talk to people about it, 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:58.280 and I didn't write for uh, you know, a couple 0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:03.040 of years. And then I mean, and the truth is, 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:09.480 so this is now probably nineteen ninety and I was 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:12.640 cold calling a shopping center and I was saying, I'm 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:15.320 Tom Douglas with Cornerstone real Estate. At least the shopping 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:17.320 center down the road. If you got any real estate needs, 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:19.719 I'd be delighted to help you. At the same time, 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:22.560 I was literally having this conversation with God, and I 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:26.920 was saying, it just seems strange that now I'm thirty 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:31.800 eight or thirty nine and the passion for music was 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:35.440 still there. It was underlying, you know, the soundtrack was 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:38.120 playing in my mind. I thought, it seems strange that 0:13:38.200 --> 0:13:43.880 I would be cynical and jaded at thirty nine and 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:48.120 cold calling a shopping center in August and Texas and 0:13:48.400 --> 0:13:50.200 really and I had an epiphany and it was like, 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:53.439 God said, well, you've worshiped the creation, which is the song, 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:57.080 instead of me. How's that working out? It was, I mean, 0:13:57.120 --> 0:13:59.640 it was startling. I was like, well, you're right, I've 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:03.160 taken this thing, which is in and of itself is good. 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:05.520 I've kind of made it an idol. I really had 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:11.480 to destroy the idol of songs. So it's talk about 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:13.319 a wag walker for one second. One of the great 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:15.320 things about doing this podcast is I can do it 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:17.880 from home and my dog is here at the house, 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:19.600 which is different than the radio show. My dog doesn't 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:21.320 get to come up to the radio show. But I 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:22.600 do love my dog and if you listen to me 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:25.240 at all, you know he's fourteen years old. I mean, 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:27.280 he's been with me through forever, so I do like 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:29.440 to make sure he's taken care of and for me, 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:33.480 Wag is awesome. Wags an on demand app for getting 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:37.320 an a dog walker. It's basically like Uber for dog walkers. 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:41.440 The thoroughly vetted walkers like I wouldn't trust someone with 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:43.560 my dog if I didn't trust them, you know what 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:46.120 I mean, quality people, experienced dogs. I can tell you 0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:48.160 my experience has been fantastic with it, Like I mean, 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:50.560 that's what I can tell you. Live GPS tracks your 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:52.680 dog's walk, notification when your dog uses the bathroom with 0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:54.680 your phonnel barkets you. If you wanted to, you get 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:57.920 a report card after it, So Wag, that's what you 0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:00.400 wanted to search Wag. The best part don't have to 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:02.560 be home Wag since you have free log box, you 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:06.240 leave alternate home instructions the app and so it's right 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:08.960 there for you. So it's an on demand app. And again, 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:10.720 if you love your dog, you can be home and 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:12.920 they come, or you cannot be home. Wagons and must have. 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:15.160 If you're a dog owner, you can get your first 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:17.520 wag for free. To just take theWord text the word 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:21.200 bones to two five, three to four. Text the word 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:23.160 bones to two five three two four and you get 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:26.040 your first wag. But just I searched wag wag walker 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:28.600 and bam, there you go. You got it. Okay, So 0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:30.760 you come back? And what year to come back to Nashville? 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:37.960 I moved here in nine back in so so, but 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:42.840 you know so, but so. I don't know if if 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:45.680 you want to go chronologically, but but so what happened 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:49.240 was I kind of slowly regained my love for music 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:52.840 and started writing songs again and feeling like I was 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:55.920 always starting over. That's when I went to SMU early 0:15:55.960 --> 0:16:02.440 one Saturday morning and probably and you know, I started 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:05.920 writing the song Little Rock, which really was just autobiographical. 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:08.360 I just Colin Ray, Colin right. I played little bit 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:12.000 of this is Apple marketsas that we played this, Yeah, 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:23.680 I'm a stone baby, wait and see, I got this 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:35.120 one small problem here in little without you, So you're 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:37.960 right this when you're still living in Texas. And then 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:40.920 I go to odd joint songwriter associations everywhere I went. 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:44.160 I went to Austin. In the summer of ninety three, 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:47.280 reconnected with Paul Whorley, whom I had known as a 0:16:47.360 --> 0:16:51.080 guitar player when I lived in in Nashville, you know, 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:56.040 nine years earlier, and um gave him a cassette at 0:16:56.040 --> 0:16:58.680 the cocktail party, expecting him never to listen to it. 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:00.760 In about two weeks ago, by any calls him one days, 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:03.840 I've been listened to a couple of these songs. I 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:05.760 think I like him. What you let me run with 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:08.720 it and see if I can get anything going. And 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:13.560 so Paul signed me to Sony Publishing and the first 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:16.560 song I got recorded was a little rock. The first 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:19.760 song we got recorded at forty one years old is 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:25.480 this monster right here. Everybody knows the song. I saw 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:28.560 Adam Craig when he was on your show. Yeah, I 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:30.480 think you just asked him and I was like, I 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:32.560 was like, can you play calling? He Adam Craig has 0:17:32.600 --> 0:17:36.239 that calling rady text you his voice. I mean this 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:39.480 song I hear it reminds in my childhood, like that's 0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:41.919 how strong this song is. And in fact that you 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:45.399 wrote it handed it off. I never thought you get 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:48.320 a call? When did it go? Hey? And how far 0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:51.080 along was calling in his career, Colin, he had had 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:54.440 he'd had loved me and he had and he'd had 0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:58.080 Uh is it in this life? He'd had it. He'd 0:17:58.080 --> 0:17:59.639 had a couple of hits, I mean, and he was 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:05.000 everybody loved his voice, and Paul was producing him, and yeah, 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:08.000 I mean it was you know, so I mean after 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:10.919 you know, I mean, Paul basically signed me just based 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:14.560 on that song. And uh you know, miraculously column Ree 0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:18.480 recorded it. So does that song end up being? Is 0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:20.680 that what makes you move to Nashville? Well, but then 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:23.600 you know, I had such a mistrust for Nashville, which 0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:27.560 is I think healthy that I commuted up here one 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:29.840 week a month for four years and then move my 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:34.160 family back in n for four years. You commuted back 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:36.159 and forth to Nashville. I still stay in the real 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:39.119 estate business. I was sure it wasn't gonna work. I 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:43.080 just thought this was a one off. And uh uh, 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:46.720 I'm still not sure it's gonna work. But what a 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:50.880 one off? Like that's a monster. Okay, so you move 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:55.160 back thinking I can make a good run of this again, 0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:57.760 what makes you think, okay, I have to move back now? Well, 0:18:57.800 --> 0:19:01.040 you know, it was forty five and I've been up 0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:04.800 here enough, I've made a few relationships. Sony is the 0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:08.800 only publisher I've ever had, and so they they made 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:11.280 it possible. I mean, so now I'm forty five, i 0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:14.879 have three children, and uh, you know, kind of my 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:18.000 second renewal was coming up with Sony and they said, 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:20.199 you know, we really think you could do this, but 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:22.760 it would be better for you and for us if 0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:26.000 you were here. And so they made it possible. And 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:29.439 I was. My father had had had just passed away, 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:32.439 and it was almost like I had a clean break, 0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:34.920 just to start a start out all over again. See 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:39.280 you moved to Nashville. What's your first taste of success 0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:43.200 as a Nashville song right? Well, and then Colin Ray 0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:48.199 recorded a song called Love Remains, and uh, you know, 0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:50.720 and the gift. I mean, it was still slow going 0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:54.640 because everything I've ever done has been it's just it's 0:19:54.760 --> 0:19:58.800 it's it's it's really left of center. I've never really 0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:01.920 been able to go right down the middle of the fairway. 0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:04.480 I'm either on the far left or the far right. 0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:07.320 But it seems like so far at least with the 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:09.000 Calling Ray stuff. And we'll get to the rest of it. 0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:12.720 You actually make the fairway, like what you do. When 0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:17.560 it becomes successful, it shifts everything else to it. Well sometimes, 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:19.800 you know, I mean I've I've had to the hardest 0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:22.520 thing over all the years, you know. I mean, now 0:20:22.560 --> 0:20:26.600 I've written like songs in twenty four years. But the 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:30.840 hardest thing is just convincing myself to still do what 0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:34.800 I do. I still have such a tendency to follow 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:37.399 trends or try to be something that I'm not, and 0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:41.199 I I really have tried, but it's almost like, you know, 0:20:41.240 --> 0:20:44.800 a piano vocal with a cello is like that. Really, 0:20:45.000 --> 0:20:48.920 that's that's almost all I can do every song. It's 0:20:48.960 --> 0:20:59.840 kind of that. Tell me about this one here you 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:03.760 pretty familiar voice. Yeah, well that that was again, you know, 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:06.000 I mean, I wouldn't have a career without Paul Whorley. 0:21:06.160 --> 0:21:11.520 So that was again Paul, And I mean, I uh so, 0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:14.560 I do love Springsteen. I love you too. I love 0:21:14.680 --> 0:21:19.520 Dylan and the you know, the the device that they 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:21.320 use in a lot of songs, or you know, the 0:21:21.480 --> 0:21:25.840 verses or vignettes, three completely unrelated vignettes and it's tied 0:21:25.880 --> 0:21:29.280 together by like a two line chorus. I mean, like 0:21:29.880 --> 0:21:32.199 grown men don't cry as I don't know why they 0:21:32.200 --> 0:21:33.840 say grown men don't cry. I don't know why they 0:21:33.840 --> 0:21:36.120 say grown mean don't cry. Loves the only house big 0:21:36.200 --> 0:21:38.000 enough for all the pain of the world, loves the 0:21:38.000 --> 0:21:41.159 only house. I mean, it's like I love songs like that. 0:21:41.160 --> 0:21:44.080 That's that's kind of in my my d n A 0:21:44.119 --> 0:21:46.119 because I've listened to so many songs like that. So 0:21:46.200 --> 0:21:50.000 I but I start all these songs on piano and 0:21:50.000 --> 0:21:54.399 then I have to find somebody somehow too, you know, 0:21:54.480 --> 0:21:58.159 to translate it, to make it, you know, you know, 0:21:58.880 --> 0:22:02.680 make it sound like a record. Um. So that happens 0:22:02.680 --> 0:22:06.680 in the studio sometimes. But I mean even the house 0:22:06.720 --> 0:22:09.960 that built me as the demo was a piano vocal 0:22:10.359 --> 0:22:13.440 which I have here in the demo, the sone of 0:22:13.640 --> 0:22:21.440 fuck that's this place a feeling, the sprokenness side, and 0:22:21.600 --> 0:22:28.240 my song he down here. It is like I'm someone else, 0:22:28.760 --> 0:22:34.000 a dount that maybe I could find mysel who's singing 0:22:34.560 --> 0:22:37.479 that's me, that like could just come in. What are 0:22:37.520 --> 0:22:40.840 you talking about? You're not a vocalist. That's like something 0:22:41.119 --> 0:22:45.200 Bruce Springsteen meets Tom Wade kind of from the house. 0:22:45.800 --> 0:22:55.240 Listen to that build Me, Mama. I buy that version 0:22:55.440 --> 0:23:00.080 the well, so all I can do is like if 0:23:00.080 --> 0:23:04.440 I do that, and then I have to the success 0:23:04.480 --> 0:23:06.679 I've had. I mean, now I've co written most of 0:23:06.680 --> 0:23:09.199 these songs, as you know, like that was with the 0:23:09.240 --> 0:23:14.840 Great Alan Shambling. Uh, the I have to I mean, 0:23:14.880 --> 0:23:17.240 if it's if it's, if it's what I do, which 0:23:17.280 --> 0:23:21.000 is the piano vocal, I have to then find an 0:23:21.119 --> 0:23:27.080 artist that can take that original but then translate it 0:23:27.200 --> 0:23:29.840 to you know, to what they do, and that that 0:23:29.920 --> 0:23:32.879 doesn't often happen. So when you make this demo and 0:23:32.960 --> 0:23:36.320 you do you shop it or does someone go this 0:23:36.359 --> 0:23:39.199 is perfect? Well we you know, we were allan and 0:23:39.240 --> 0:23:42.399 I worked on that for seven years. Uh you know, 0:23:42.480 --> 0:23:46.760 we started it, uh and then we demoed it, turned 0:23:46.760 --> 0:23:49.320 it into the publisher and they were like, yeah, that's cool, 0:23:49.520 --> 0:23:52.440 which you know, it's like code's big for this will 0:23:52.480 --> 0:23:56.040 never see the light of day, and where it's maddening. 0:23:56.760 --> 0:24:02.200 You know, you think everybody's raging idiot and only the 0:24:02.240 --> 0:24:04.480 look in the mirror and realized that you're the raging idiot. 0:24:04.880 --> 0:24:09.560 So yeah, um, but we worked on it, we redemoed it, 0:24:09.800 --> 0:24:11.840 you know, and we just kept we knew that there 0:24:11.920 --> 0:24:14.679 was something there and the truth is, we had too 0:24:14.800 --> 0:24:18.080 much detail. And at the very end, so you know, 0:24:19.280 --> 0:24:23.200 seven years later from when we started, we just laid 0:24:23.240 --> 0:24:26.359 the lyrics down on the coffee table and said, what 0:24:26.680 --> 0:24:29.679 is wrong. There's something that's not connecting, and we didn't 0:24:29.680 --> 0:24:33.200 have uh, well, we had to take out some detail, 0:24:33.240 --> 0:24:35.919 and we didn't have If I can just come in, 0:24:36.000 --> 0:24:38.199 I swear I'll leave, won't take nothing but a memory. 0:24:38.400 --> 0:24:40.840 We didn't have that, which is the line that precedes 0:24:41.240 --> 0:24:44.280 the hook. And as you know, the line that precedes 0:24:44.320 --> 0:24:47.600 the hook is often more important or as important as 0:24:47.640 --> 0:24:49.760 the hook itself. Why would you say this song for 0:24:49.840 --> 0:24:54.560 seven years? Well, you know, I mean I love songs, 0:24:54.760 --> 0:24:57.120 I really do, you know, and it's well it's it's 0:24:57.119 --> 0:25:03.640 a love hate relationship. But songs that are unfinished, they 0:25:03.680 --> 0:25:07.040 just they kind of drive me crazy. And um, I 0:25:07.080 --> 0:25:09.119 don't do that with all songs, but there are certain 0:25:09.160 --> 0:25:11.920 songs that you're just like loves the Only House took 0:25:12.960 --> 0:25:17.800 It took years. Um, you know, multiple demos, and you know, 0:25:17.920 --> 0:25:21.480 you just you just you just have to you know, 0:25:21.520 --> 0:25:24.399 you just have a feeling about certain songs and you 0:25:24.520 --> 0:25:28.200 just gotta stay with it. You know. Rewriting really does 0:25:28.440 --> 0:25:31.880 help with a lot, you know in songs. I mean, 0:25:31.960 --> 0:25:35.560 time does make some songs better. I'm curious to know 0:25:35.880 --> 0:25:37.600 that's we're talking about the house that built me. It 0:25:37.640 --> 0:25:40.119 took that long. How did you know you were done? 0:25:40.280 --> 0:25:42.879 And then when do you make that move to go okay, 0:25:42.880 --> 0:25:45.280 now really what I'm done? Yeah? Can we get an artist? 0:25:45.520 --> 0:25:47.960 I don't you know, it's almost like I think for 0:25:48.000 --> 0:25:51.440 the songwriter, it's almost not up to us to even 0:25:51.480 --> 0:25:53.919 ask that question, you know, we're so we have to 0:25:53.960 --> 0:25:57.920 be all process and detach ourselves from the end result. 0:25:58.520 --> 0:26:01.959 So it's almost like, alright, so we we wrote it, 0:26:02.080 --> 0:26:05.760 demoed it, turned it in. Nothing wrote it, demo turned 0:26:05.800 --> 0:26:08.960 it in, nothing wrote it, demoed it, turned it in. 0:26:09.960 --> 0:26:13.119 You know, the siren screamed and the red lights flashed, 0:26:13.359 --> 0:26:17.680 and that's when we knew, you know, it's I mean, 0:26:17.720 --> 0:26:20.560 everything we do is kind of based on what four 0:26:20.600 --> 0:26:23.960 other people in the world think. So it's if though, 0:26:24.040 --> 0:26:26.440 if if the bill rings of those four of the people, 0:26:26.480 --> 0:26:28.280 then we're good. If not, then we just have to 0:26:28.359 --> 0:26:31.320 keep going. So is Miranda the first one to put 0:26:31.359 --> 0:26:34.959 it on hold? Well, I mean it honestly, it was 0:26:35.000 --> 0:26:38.240 one of those like you know, it was you know, 0:26:38.240 --> 0:26:40.439 it was like an atomic bomb. I mean, it was 0:26:40.520 --> 0:26:45.360 one of those palpable reactions where everybody loved it. Um 0:26:45.480 --> 0:26:47.960 you know, went on hold for literally everybody at the 0:26:48.000 --> 0:26:50.560 same time. And of course we were trying to get 0:26:50.600 --> 0:26:54.560 the song to Blake Shelton and you know, so the 0:26:54.600 --> 0:26:59.760 story goes, so Sony Terry Wakefield plays it for Scott Hendricks, 0:26:59.760 --> 0:27:05.639 who's producing Blake Shelton. Scott Hendrick sends the uh, you know, 0:27:06.160 --> 0:27:08.800 a tape or a CD with ten songs on it 0:27:08.880 --> 0:27:11.320 to Blake Shelton every week to listen to songs. He 0:27:11.400 --> 0:27:16.240 comes back from tour one wind swept Oklahoma night, he 0:27:16.400 --> 0:27:19.720 puts the CD in his truck and he's going down 0:27:19.760 --> 0:27:23.199 this highway and third song in it's the House of 0:27:23.200 --> 0:27:26.679 Building Me. His girlfriend at the time, starts weeping and 0:27:26.720 --> 0:27:30.800 he says, baby, what's wrong, And she says, that's my story. 0:27:30.840 --> 0:27:33.000 And he said, well, if that's your story, maybe that's 0:27:33.000 --> 0:27:35.000 your song. So if you want to get a song 0:27:35.040 --> 0:27:37.800 to Miranda Lambert, you work on it seven years, you 0:27:37.840 --> 0:27:40.560 pitch it to everybody, get it on hold for Blake Shelton, 0:27:40.840 --> 0:27:46.760 and Miranda hears it. So it's it's a it's a mysterious. 0:27:47.560 --> 0:27:50.240 Uh event, I have no idea how to get a 0:27:50.240 --> 0:27:54.200 song to Miranda Lambert. I really don't. So you get words, 0:27:54.280 --> 0:27:57.440 she's cutting the song, and at that point is that 0:27:57.560 --> 0:27:58.919 she's cutting it and we think it could be a 0:27:58.960 --> 0:28:00.920 single for the radio or is it Jess, she's cutting 0:28:00.920 --> 0:28:03.199 a song. She's cutting a song. But I mean, you know, 0:28:04.760 --> 0:28:07.399 most songwriters and I don't know, we really are fans. 0:28:07.520 --> 0:28:10.600 I mean we're fans of music, and we're fans of 0:28:10.680 --> 0:28:14.360 country artists, and we really we love country music. So 0:28:15.080 --> 0:28:19.760 everybody loves, loved and loves Miranda. And so the fact 0:28:19.800 --> 0:28:22.080 that as great a songwriter as she is, that she 0:28:22.200 --> 0:28:25.040 was cutting a song that she didn't write was you know, 0:28:25.080 --> 0:28:30.920 an equal honor. And so, you know, the producer Franklindell 0:28:31.000 --> 0:28:35.359 called me, you know, after she recorded it, and he came, 0:28:35.440 --> 0:28:37.719 you know, to his office and played it for him, 0:28:37.760 --> 0:28:42.680 and it was so stark. It was like, I mean, 0:28:42.720 --> 0:28:45.400 it was like it was like two guitars and a vocal. 0:28:45.560 --> 0:28:49.280 It was like I was like, I literally have said, 0:28:49.320 --> 0:28:51.120 you're not gonna put any drums on it. I mean, 0:28:51.120 --> 0:28:52.840 it was like it was just it was so like 0:28:53.040 --> 0:28:57.600 just bear that I was honestly I was. I was 0:28:57.800 --> 0:29:01.120 probably probably was discouraged. I was like, oh man, this 0:29:01.200 --> 0:29:03.719 is this is I don't know what this is, but 0:29:03.800 --> 0:29:06.760 this is it just doesn't sound like anything that i'd 0:29:06.800 --> 0:29:10.320 really heard before in country music. But thank goodness, they 0:29:10.360 --> 0:29:14.920 were true to their ideals and their art. And for 0:29:15.040 --> 0:29:17.560 both of you, Miranda and for you, this this is 0:29:17.600 --> 0:29:20.840 a career changer. Yeah it's it's yeah, yeah, it's a 0:29:20.840 --> 0:29:25.080 career changer. It certainly is, uh for Alan and me, 0:29:25.520 --> 0:29:30.520 and uh yeah, I mean it was, yeah, it was. 0:29:30.600 --> 0:29:34.520 I mean everything about it was just phenomenal. I'm gonna 0:29:34.560 --> 0:29:36.440 play it and to hear you talk about it and 0:29:36.440 --> 0:29:45.560 to hear it right here, just this place, it's broken 0:29:48.760 --> 0:29:54.040 when you hear it right now, removed a bit, yea, 0:29:54.840 --> 0:29:57.640 removed from the process, removed from the awards, Like, what 0:29:57.720 --> 0:29:59.840 do you think right now when you hear it's just 0:30:00.440 --> 0:30:03.160 I mean, it's it's goose bumps. It's just it's something 0:30:03.200 --> 0:30:08.000 that you know, it's just it's I think it's that's 0:30:08.040 --> 0:30:13.840 what music is it it um you know her, she 0:30:14.000 --> 0:30:16.640 really has made the song her own, which is the 0:30:16.800 --> 0:30:20.840 ultimate compliment to a songwriter, and that's Miranda song. And 0:30:20.920 --> 0:30:23.520 it's just that's the greatest honor I think you can 0:30:23.560 --> 0:30:26.640 have as a writer. And it's you know, it's just 0:30:26.760 --> 0:30:30.240 it does what art is supposed to do, which is 0:30:30.280 --> 0:30:37.520 it It reduces our defenses. It opens us up and 0:30:37.680 --> 0:30:42.920 helps us not feel numb and feels something again. And 0:30:43.120 --> 0:30:45.960 so much of life is all about numbing us, you know, 0:30:45.960 --> 0:30:50.080 in the chaos of life. The headlines. Uh, it's it's 0:30:50.200 --> 0:30:54.719 it's a numbing you know. Uh, that's a numbing process. 0:30:54.960 --> 0:30:57.840 And that's I think art. That's what art does. It 0:30:57.280 --> 0:31:01.600 It reminds us to feel something again when you have 0:31:01.760 --> 0:31:04.720 a song like that and it's that big of a hit, 0:31:04.840 --> 0:31:06.600 and you've already had hits. We'll play some of the 0:31:06.600 --> 0:31:09.120 other other ones too, But do people start knocking on 0:31:09.160 --> 0:31:12.480 the door a lot more? You know what you would think? So, 0:31:12.800 --> 0:31:15.560 I mean we, you know, were Alan and I both 0:31:15.600 --> 0:31:17.640 we thought, all right, we're gonna try to leverage this 0:31:17.840 --> 0:31:22.680 to write with John Legend or Beyonce or Adele or 0:31:23.320 --> 0:31:27.560 you know, kind of you had visions of grandeur, and honestly, 0:31:27.600 --> 0:31:30.200 none of that materialized. I mean like nothing, it was 0:31:30.280 --> 0:31:34.960 like and I still don't I don't know why. Now. 0:31:35.120 --> 0:31:39.520 Oddly enough, over over time, you know, allan and I thought, 0:31:39.600 --> 0:31:42.600 you know, within the first year, we're gonna get all 0:31:42.640 --> 0:31:46.200 these very fascinating co writes, and it just it really 0:31:46.240 --> 0:31:49.120 didn't happen. I mean, we had, you know, we were 0:31:49.160 --> 0:31:51.480 able to write songs, but I don't know. I think 0:31:51.520 --> 0:31:53.880 we I think Allen and I got a little lost 0:31:54.120 --> 0:31:58.440 in the in the in the in the tidal wave 0:31:58.520 --> 0:32:01.960 of the song. Tell me about this one here, because 0:32:01.960 --> 0:32:04.200 I got a lot of them that what you talk about. 0:32:07.480 --> 0:32:11.320 I run to you from Lady Eggs. See you're right 0:32:11.440 --> 0:32:15.800 this with them, Yeah, all three of them, all three 0:32:15.840 --> 0:32:20.920 of them. So you know, as the publisher sets you 0:32:21.040 --> 0:32:24.320 up with the next big thing, you know, weekly, the 0:32:24.360 --> 0:32:27.200 next big thing in Nashville, there's a buzz all of 0:32:27.240 --> 0:32:31.040 a sudden, there's this fresh faced trio with kind of 0:32:31.080 --> 0:32:36.040 a crazy name, and um so that you know, Lady 0:32:36.040 --> 0:32:38.440 Annabellum is coming to your house in two weeks. So, 0:32:38.720 --> 0:32:41.120 I mean, and I love what they had done. I've 0:32:41.160 --> 0:32:43.840 heard their demos and I think I've seen them around 0:32:43.840 --> 0:32:47.960 playing and so you know, I'm as a professional songwriter, 0:32:47.960 --> 0:32:50.840 I'm supposed to have great ideas. That's why they're coming 0:32:50.880 --> 0:32:56.480 to you. So they show up and it's like, you know, 0:32:56.480 --> 0:32:59.240 with the successive day. I'm like, the more time I 0:32:59.320 --> 0:33:02.080 have to prepare air for something more paralyzed, I've become. 0:33:02.160 --> 0:33:05.040 So I had I couldn't run, I couldn't rhyme blue 0:33:05.080 --> 0:33:08.960 with you. So I'm running in the Nashville Marathon. Oddly enough, 0:33:09.080 --> 0:33:12.680 the weekend before, I followed this guy for five miles. 0:33:12.680 --> 0:33:14.479 He's got to run this town on the back of 0:33:14.480 --> 0:33:18.640 his T shirt. So I'm thinking metaphorically symbolically, I run 0:33:18.680 --> 0:33:21.640 this town like the mayor, like a mafia boss, like 0:33:22.200 --> 0:33:25.040 you know, from point A to point being. I'm delirious 0:33:25.120 --> 0:33:28.600 following this guy. I developed an intense hatred for the guy. 0:33:29.400 --> 0:33:32.360 Monday morning, they show up and they're gonna come at ten. 0:33:32.480 --> 0:33:35.040 I'm sick to my stomach. I'm thinking this, how is 0:33:35.080 --> 0:33:39.200 this possible? I've got and I have no ideas, and 0:33:39.280 --> 0:33:44.280 so literally they came, you know, eager, expectant, you know, 0:33:44.360 --> 0:33:46.200 for me to have a you know, at least a 0:33:46.240 --> 0:33:49.760 decent idea, and uh. I literally I put my hands 0:33:49.760 --> 0:33:52.640 down on the piano and up saying, you know, I 0:33:53.040 --> 0:33:59.200 run from haye and I run from prejudice. And as 0:33:59.240 --> 0:34:02.480 I was even singing that, I was thinking, I don't 0:34:02.480 --> 0:34:04.200 even know what it means, and I'm I wrote it. 0:34:04.240 --> 0:34:06.600 I wrote these words, and I opened up my my 0:34:06.680 --> 0:34:11.120 eyes to think they're packing their briefcases and leaving and 0:34:11.160 --> 0:34:14.280 they're like, man, that is that is brilliant. Of course, 0:34:14.320 --> 0:34:16.359 I said, I've been saving that for you for week. 0:34:18.480 --> 0:34:21.880 So unfortunately they hung in there and that was But 0:34:22.080 --> 0:34:24.480 you know, it's very poetic. It's odd words. You know, 0:34:24.560 --> 0:34:31.200 it's prejudice, pessimist. I mean, it's it's I love poetry. 0:34:31.320 --> 0:34:36.880 I'm really I'm I'm crazy about words, and uh, you know, 0:34:38.000 --> 0:34:40.520 I mean, words are important, They're important to me. But 0:34:41.600 --> 0:34:44.400 I really think people come to songs. I think I 0:34:44.400 --> 0:34:48.080 think people think the first I mean you would. I'd 0:34:48.120 --> 0:34:50.960 be curious to see what you say about this. So 0:34:51.120 --> 0:34:54.520 let me make a gross, sweeping generalization. Rhythm is the 0:34:54.600 --> 0:34:59.640 foundation of songs. What do you say to that. I 0:34:59.640 --> 0:35:01.040 think they a lot of songs that I love and 0:35:01.040 --> 0:35:04.839 I have no idea what the words are. But but 0:35:05.120 --> 0:35:09.239 I think more importantly than melody or chords or production, 0:35:09.800 --> 0:35:13.800 it's rhythm. Rhythm really is what rhythm is what draws 0:35:13.880 --> 0:35:20.480 us in um and I have really I haven't really 0:35:20.480 --> 0:35:23.680 paid attention to that through the last twenty four years. 0:35:23.719 --> 0:35:26.560 But the longer I'm doing this, the more and more 0:35:26.600 --> 0:35:29.920 I'm I'm at least paying attention to rhythm. There's this 0:35:29.960 --> 0:35:35.200 song now, yeah, if you're desposito Desposito, it's like the 0:35:35.239 --> 0:35:38.680 new most dream song ever, YouTube song ever. It's all Spanish. 0:35:38.880 --> 0:35:40.160 I don't know why I love it. It's got a 0:35:40.239 --> 0:35:44.160 rhythm of this. Oh yeah, I have I heard about 0:35:44.239 --> 0:35:46.720 it because it's the most stream song. Yeah, and again 0:35:46.760 --> 0:35:48.360 you say that I don't know a single word of 0:35:48.400 --> 0:35:50.560 its fascinating, but I listened to the whole thing and 0:35:50.600 --> 0:35:52.319 I'm like, yeah, do you get it? Like this is 0:35:52.320 --> 0:35:54.120 this my jam? I feel it like I know what. 0:35:54.800 --> 0:35:56.080 I don't know what they're saying, but I know what 0:35:56.080 --> 0:35:58.920 they're trying to say. Well, you're you're you know how 0:35:58.960 --> 0:36:01.560 it makes you feel, which is you know that. That's 0:36:01.560 --> 0:36:03.360 what they often say is that I'm not really I 0:36:03.400 --> 0:36:05.640 don't really remember what he said, but I know I 0:36:05.719 --> 0:36:08.319 remember how he made me feel. That's a lot of 0:36:08.360 --> 0:36:13.120 times that's what music. Does you teach songwriting? Well, yes, 0:36:14.000 --> 0:36:16.080 how do you teach songwriting? Like I want to take 0:36:16.120 --> 0:36:22.080 your class? Right? Well, I really specifically it's lyric writing, 0:36:22.280 --> 0:36:24.799 so you know, we do get into the whole thing 0:36:24.840 --> 0:36:30.440 of songwriting. But I still am affiliated with Belmont. Um, 0:36:30.560 --> 0:36:35.200 I love Belmont, But I taught lyric writing with my 0:36:35.320 --> 0:36:37.400 co talk with a friend of mine for five years, 0:36:38.200 --> 0:36:44.040 and um, you know, really, I mean lyric writing is uh, 0:36:44.200 --> 0:36:46.399 you know, it's just trying to get people to not 0:36:46.760 --> 0:36:49.120 edit what they do and just you have to kind 0:36:49.120 --> 0:36:53.560 of start free form. Um. I mean like literally, if 0:36:53.560 --> 0:36:57.600 we were going through an exercise would be like, let's 0:36:57.840 --> 0:37:01.759 you and I go to the Frist Museum and let's 0:37:01.800 --> 0:37:04.680 see whatever exhibit is there, and let's walk around those 0:37:04.760 --> 0:37:07.560 rooms and let's just let's just find a painting or 0:37:07.600 --> 0:37:09.799 a sculpture that means something to you that you just 0:37:10.000 --> 0:37:14.040 you just like, and then let's come back and maybe 0:37:14.040 --> 0:37:17.880 take a picture of it, and let's write a short 0:37:18.000 --> 0:37:24.280 story that you know that illuminates whatever this picture happens 0:37:24.320 --> 0:37:28.840 to be. And you know, so you write two and 0:37:29.000 --> 0:37:31.920 or fifty words and then you say, okay, so you know, 0:37:32.200 --> 0:37:34.719 if like, what's the main point from that tour or 0:37:34.760 --> 0:37:39.160 in fifty word essay, uh, you know, it's you know, 0:37:39.239 --> 0:37:44.160 it's you know, it's fear of flying. Uh, and you know, 0:37:44.239 --> 0:37:47.680 and so you just kind of start, uh, you know, 0:37:47.960 --> 0:37:51.040 lyric writing particularly is just it's just getting in touch 0:37:51.160 --> 0:37:56.480 with who you are, giving yourself permission to feel. And um, 0:37:56.680 --> 0:38:01.399 I think there are two types of songs and two 0:38:01.520 --> 0:38:07.040 kinds of songwriters. I'm always trying to remember something, and 0:38:07.080 --> 0:38:10.040 I think most people are trying to forget something. So 0:38:11.000 --> 0:38:15.160 every song I write is really about remembrance. But I 0:38:15.160 --> 0:38:17.160 mean the majority of songs that you play on your 0:38:17.239 --> 0:38:24.400 radio show, I think are about forgetting. Example of each place, Well, um, 0:38:24.400 --> 0:38:28.640 like what's the what's the number one song? And take 0:38:28.920 --> 0:38:33.840 um uh, take Thomas Rhett and Mary Morris a song. Okay, 0:38:33.920 --> 0:38:39.520 So that's that's about I think that's that's the whole thing. 0:38:39.640 --> 0:38:45.400 Makes you forget something, it's your uh. I mean, if 0:38:45.440 --> 0:38:47.399 I were to put myself, you know, in the mind 0:38:47.440 --> 0:38:49.879 of the writers, they're just they're they're just it's it's 0:38:49.920 --> 0:38:55.000 just about one small unique experience, which is it's a 0:38:55.040 --> 0:38:59.520 moment in time. It's a relationship, it's a thing, and 0:38:59.719 --> 0:39:02.840 it's it's you're not it's there's no there's no past 0:39:03.040 --> 0:39:05.879 and there's no future. It's just all right now. So 0:39:05.960 --> 0:39:09.560 it's to me, it's a disconnect from you know, from 0:39:09.600 --> 0:39:14.520 the before, and a disconnect from the after um, I 0:39:14.520 --> 0:39:17.920 mean any of those songs. I mean, the House of 0:39:17.960 --> 0:39:20.320 Built Me is you know, I'm trying to I've gotten 0:39:20.360 --> 0:39:24.880 lost and i can't remember where I'm from or to 0:39:24.920 --> 0:39:28.400 whom I belong, and it's just about coming back home 0:39:28.480 --> 0:39:32.000 and remembering who you are. We play this one here, 0:39:35.160 --> 0:39:39.360 Keith and Church when you rode this was it written 0:39:39.360 --> 0:39:42.560 for two people? You? No? No, And I mean honestly, 0:39:42.640 --> 0:39:46.000 Jeffrey Steele and I walked in on Jaren Johnston, who's 0:39:46.040 --> 0:39:50.400 an amazing songwriter in the being Cadillac three, and Jared 0:39:50.480 --> 0:39:53.319 kind of had this thing started and he had he 0:39:53.360 --> 0:39:56.279 had the title. So Jeffrey and I just were like 0:39:56.400 --> 0:39:58.920 kids in a candy store. And all all we started 0:39:59.000 --> 0:40:02.200 do is we just we just started every I mean 0:40:02.280 --> 0:40:05.440 you'd like literally we just sat there and thought, let's 0:40:05.480 --> 0:40:10.600 connect everything that could possibly connected with the words raise 0:40:10.680 --> 0:40:14.919 them up, and let's just fill the verses full with that. 0:40:15.080 --> 0:40:17.640 So raise up a glass, raise up a sale, raise 0:40:17.719 --> 0:40:20.879 up a you know, raise a toast, you know, raise 0:40:20.960 --> 0:40:24.759 up a flag, you know, raise up a child. It's 0:40:24.800 --> 0:40:27.040 just I mean that that's that is just kind of 0:40:27.080 --> 0:40:32.359 a free form association of of of one of three 0:40:32.400 --> 0:40:34.600 words raise them up, did that would feel good? And 0:40:34.680 --> 0:40:38.360 completely finished it? Yeah? That was that was That was quick. 0:40:38.440 --> 0:40:41.640 It was one day Jaran does these amazing little demos 0:40:42.440 --> 0:40:45.960 and um, I mean I think we played it for 0:40:46.000 --> 0:40:49.040 a few people. But then when we heard Keith loved it, 0:40:49.840 --> 0:40:52.000 that was amazing. And but then, I mean, then we 0:40:52.080 --> 0:40:55.600 have heard this through the you know, through the years. 0:40:55.640 --> 0:40:57.800 I don't I mean Keith didn't say this, but I've 0:40:57.840 --> 0:41:00.080 heard people say that he got a little bit it 0:41:00.160 --> 0:41:03.080 uncomfortable with the fact that he's Australian and there's a 0:41:03.200 --> 0:41:07.040 patriotic verse and he was like, I don't know if 0:41:07.040 --> 0:41:09.560 I can pull this off in an Australian gasling about 0:41:09.560 --> 0:41:12.320 you know, fist black and blue, fight for the truth? 0:41:12.360 --> 0:41:16.400 Can you can? He sing? And I think it's the producer, 0:41:16.520 --> 0:41:20.880 like Nathan Chapman said, well, what if we got, you know, 0:41:20.920 --> 0:41:22.680 somebody to come in and sing it with you? And 0:41:22.719 --> 0:41:26.239 I think he just said that's brilliantly. So I don't 0:41:26.239 --> 0:41:28.800 know if that was Keith's idea or Nathan's, but somebody 0:41:28.840 --> 0:41:31.680 had a great idea to get Eric Church involved and 0:41:31.719 --> 0:41:34.920 that was that was That was amazing. Nobody boy American 0:41:34.960 --> 0:41:37.040 and Eric Church, That's right. It's about as American as 0:41:37.080 --> 0:41:40.320 a Ya's Wow, what a story. I love this George 0:41:40.360 --> 0:41:50.319 Straight song I got and to get George the song, well, 0:41:50.400 --> 0:41:53.879 George Straight loves Keith Gadus. Keith Gaddis is a real 0:41:54.360 --> 0:41:57.600 He's a real cowboyot so that's I wrote that with Keith. 0:41:58.800 --> 0:42:02.360 And I mean, I'm not ain't this to be disingenuous. Honestly, 0:42:02.800 --> 0:42:05.480 I sat there while Keith kind of wrote that song, 0:42:05.719 --> 0:42:09.440 and I just was like, that's great, that's great. Can 0:42:09.440 --> 0:42:14.080 I get you more coffee? That's amazing? Um, And he does, 0:42:14.200 --> 0:42:17.040 you know, I mean Keith Gaddis he you know, he 0:42:17.160 --> 0:42:20.319 still is an artist, but I mean he's he just 0:42:20.880 --> 0:42:25.799 he you know, he just bleeds that West Texas you know, 0:42:25.920 --> 0:42:29.440 cattle rancher, which is George Straight. So you say that 0:42:29.440 --> 0:42:32.680 that you sat there, But if you're writing, you know, 0:42:32.719 --> 0:42:34.800 and you're a lot of time, you know, a thousands 0:42:34.840 --> 0:42:37.319 sounds of songs, does it kind of balance out where 0:42:37.360 --> 0:42:39.759 they're also songs that you wrote and somebody else has 0:42:39.800 --> 0:42:43.560 sat there? Well yeah, and and yes, yes, I mean 0:42:43.760 --> 0:42:46.399 there are days where you're the editor in their days 0:42:46.440 --> 0:42:49.080 where you're the artist in the room. Um, so you 0:42:49.160 --> 0:42:51.279 just you just kind of there can't be I think 0:42:51.320 --> 0:42:53.560 you can't. There can't be two artists they compete, and 0:42:53.560 --> 0:42:55.839 there can't be two editors. Somebody's got to take the lead. 0:42:55.920 --> 0:42:59.359 So I have done this long enough that I really 0:42:59.360 --> 0:43:03.080 I do want to facilitate whatever's that. We just want 0:43:03.080 --> 0:43:06.239 to honor the song. What does the song need? That's 0:43:06.280 --> 0:43:08.560 what I want to you know, that's what I want 0:43:08.560 --> 0:43:12.040 to do. That's really interesting that you you say it 0:43:12.080 --> 0:43:14.959 like that, because no one said it before. Where you're 0:43:15.080 --> 0:43:17.680 kind of filling roles and the role is gonna be 0:43:17.680 --> 0:43:20.480 feel differently each time you write a song, right, But 0:43:20.600 --> 0:43:25.600 somebody's driving and somebody's got the map out right. That 0:43:26.080 --> 0:43:29.319 that's and I haven't been able to articulate like that, 0:43:29.400 --> 0:43:32.680 but that's exactly like we've got a destination. The destination 0:43:32.880 --> 0:43:37.160 is the song. The journey is the process. Yeah, so 0:43:37.560 --> 0:43:39.600 you you that can't be two drivers and it can't 0:43:39.600 --> 0:43:42.439 be two navigators. Man, you should really write songs because 0:43:42.440 --> 0:43:47.360 it's it's fantastic, fantastic. How about this on here back 0:43:47.480 --> 0:43:51.840 with Mamma's the porch, come on in, suffers on the 0:43:51.880 --> 0:43:56.719 stove and beers and every when the song came out 0:43:56.960 --> 0:43:59.080 and for me I grew up listening to him on 0:43:59.120 --> 0:44:02.120 the radio. Guy grew up and it was Garth and 0:44:02.160 --> 0:44:04.360 Tim and you know even you play calling right like 0:44:04.400 --> 0:44:06.800 that to me was when I was listening to Kiss 0:44:06.800 --> 0:44:08.080 the ninety six and on the rock are u s 0:44:08.120 --> 0:44:10.480 ninety seven and Hot Springs, those are the artists on 0:44:10.680 --> 0:44:13.239 and I remember, you know, Tim growing up listening to 0:44:13.280 --> 0:44:16.560 it just to start with obviously any out Long and 0:44:16.600 --> 0:44:18.440 Don't Take the Girl, like his first couple of singles, 0:44:18.440 --> 0:44:20.440 and then following him all the way up. And when 0:44:20.440 --> 0:44:22.360 this song came out, I was actually on the radio 0:44:22.400 --> 0:44:25.480 getting to play it. I was like, man, this is 0:44:25.640 --> 0:44:30.960 so traditionally progressive. It was almost like a rewind song 0:44:31.040 --> 0:44:34.439 that still sounded like today. When you write a song 0:44:34.480 --> 0:44:36.480 like that, do you feel like you're doing that, like 0:44:36.480 --> 0:44:39.560 you're trying to take a step back. I don't know, 0:44:39.840 --> 0:44:42.040 I don't. I don't think it's as I don't think 0:44:42.040 --> 0:44:45.400 it's as conscious as that. You know, we're all the 0:44:46.200 --> 0:44:49.520 everything we do is the you know, summation of everything 0:44:49.600 --> 0:44:52.000 that that you know that's come before us. So we're 0:44:51.960 --> 0:44:56.439 all we're borrowing from ourselves, We're borrowing from I mean 0:44:56.480 --> 0:45:00.279 that is very similar to you know, just to see 0:45:00.320 --> 0:45:04.319 you smile, just to see you smile. But the trend, though, 0:45:04.440 --> 0:45:06.319 was not that when that song came out. I know, 0:45:06.640 --> 0:45:09.640 I mean that's the magic of Tim McGraw who continues 0:45:09.719 --> 0:45:13.680 to reinvent himself and kind of defy tradition. When it 0:45:13.680 --> 0:45:17.719 gets real, you know, real progressive, he'll do that. And 0:45:17.760 --> 0:45:20.799 then when it gets real country, he'll do you know, 0:45:22.040 --> 0:45:24.120 you know, live like you're dying. I mean, he is 0:45:24.160 --> 0:45:28.480 a you know, he's a he's a metamorphosis. You have 0:45:28.520 --> 0:45:30.120 a lot of Tim cuts, and I mean I have 0:45:30.239 --> 0:45:32.040 five up here and you may have more than that. 0:45:32.080 --> 0:45:35.280 But so are you in the what they call Tim 0:45:35.360 --> 0:45:39.720 camp where he he I love Tim mcgrawl. And again, 0:45:39.760 --> 0:45:42.319 I mean he has recorded more of my songs anybody, so, 0:45:42.440 --> 0:45:45.040 so temps recording more of you than anybody knows. So 0:45:45.440 --> 0:45:49.719 I mean, you know, I mean if Tim and I 0:45:49.760 --> 0:45:55.680 are friends, but you know, I mean, as artists, they 0:45:55.800 --> 0:45:59.879 have to be like, what's the best for this wreck 0:46:00.239 --> 0:46:03.560 at this particular moment. So at the same time that 0:46:03.680 --> 0:46:05.720 they have a voice. And if someone has a voice 0:46:05.760 --> 0:46:08.880 like your inner voice, and you're like, man, they actually speak, 0:46:09.560 --> 0:46:12.600 they speak like I speak. Do you feel like you 0:46:12.719 --> 0:46:16.799 didn't have that. Well, excuse me, yeah, I think so. 0:46:16.920 --> 0:46:19.799 I mean, I mean he has three children. I have 0:46:19.880 --> 0:46:23.840 three children. Um. The way I really got connected to 0:46:23.880 --> 0:46:26.319 him was was through Grown Indo Cry. That was the 0:46:26.360 --> 0:46:31.000 first song he had. And then, uh, he invited me 0:46:31.080 --> 0:46:33.319 to come out to California when he was doing the 0:46:33.360 --> 0:46:36.440 movie Flicker because they needed an entitle for the movie. 0:46:37.040 --> 0:46:38.640 And so I went out there and I spent a 0:46:38.640 --> 0:46:41.279 couple of nights on the set with him and met 0:46:41.320 --> 0:46:44.560 Billy Bob Thornton and it was an amazing experience. But 0:46:44.680 --> 0:46:46.960 just trying to soak up the sights and sounds of 0:46:47.040 --> 0:46:51.480 that movie and uh, so you know, yeah, there's certainly 0:46:52.080 --> 0:46:56.040 commonalities to his life. I think we probably, you know, 0:46:56.080 --> 0:46:58.000 in some ways the way we look at life and 0:46:58.040 --> 0:47:07.840 think are similar. This one here, Well, I love I 0:47:07.920 --> 0:47:11.400 love the South. I love my daughters and my wife. 0:47:11.400 --> 0:47:13.600 I went to Old miss So I spent a lot 0:47:13.640 --> 0:47:17.600 of time in Oxford, Oxford, Mississippi. Oxford has this amazing 0:47:17.600 --> 0:47:21.200 bookstore called Square Books. And you walk in Square Books 0:47:21.200 --> 0:47:27.200 and it's got um a great poster that says, you know, uh, Southerners, 0:47:27.239 --> 0:47:30.120 we may not know how to uh talk, but we 0:47:30.160 --> 0:47:32.400 sure know how to write. And they have pictures of 0:47:32.800 --> 0:47:37.040 Udora Welty and you know, Robert pin Warren, William Faulkner 0:47:37.160 --> 0:47:40.279 and Flannery O'Connor, and I just I just started thinking 0:47:40.320 --> 0:47:44.360 about the distinctive way that Southerners think, talk and the 0:47:44.400 --> 0:47:46.520 way that we look at the world. It really is 0:47:47.000 --> 0:47:49.319 is very different than other parts of the country, and 0:47:49.400 --> 0:47:53.520 just kind of what a Southern voice is. And so 0:47:53.719 --> 0:47:56.080 my friend Bob Depiro, who's from you know, it's not 0:47:56.239 --> 0:48:00.479 he's from Ohio, but he you know that that really 0:48:00.600 --> 0:48:02.279 was so fun to write because we just kind of 0:48:02.400 --> 0:48:06.640 name checked every famous Southerner that there was, from Michael 0:48:06.719 --> 0:48:09.319 Jordan's to you know, Bear Bryant to Billy Graham to 0:48:09.880 --> 0:48:12.640 Dale Earnhardt. It was just that was that was a 0:48:12.640 --> 0:48:16.439 fun one to write. Did you write today? I did 0:48:16.520 --> 0:48:19.879 right today. How do you feel bout Today's right? Well, 0:48:19.920 --> 0:48:22.359 today it was with my least favorite co writer, which 0:48:22.400 --> 0:48:24.840 is myself. So I was I was working on a 0:48:24.880 --> 0:48:28.719 song by myself. Uh so it's it's you know, it's 0:48:29.800 --> 0:48:36.600 it is. The songs that right by myself are different. Um, 0:48:36.640 --> 0:48:38.759 but you know it's I don't know, it's it's kind 0:48:38.800 --> 0:48:42.120 of a beautiful, torturous relationship. You know, when you're right 0:48:42.200 --> 0:48:46.960 by yourself, I really do like it. It's uh, I 0:48:47.040 --> 0:48:49.880 love co writing, but I do I really like writing 0:48:49.880 --> 0:48:52.440 by myself as well. How hard is it to remember 0:48:52.600 --> 0:48:55.160 all the writers did you write with? Because you throughout 0:48:55.160 --> 0:48:59.879 a number that you've been how many songs you don't 0:48:59.880 --> 0:49:02.080 know every code writer you've wtten with. People were like, hey, 0:49:02.120 --> 0:49:03.680 you wrote this song. Is it a hard do you 0:49:03.680 --> 0:49:05.960 have to let go back and cramp sometimes? Well? Yeah, 0:49:06.040 --> 0:49:09.120 I mean I was like, you know, in the last year, 0:49:09.160 --> 0:49:11.080 I was at a restaurant. I was eating dinner with 0:49:11.160 --> 0:49:14.120 some friends and it was a coat. It was a 0:49:14.840 --> 0:49:17.600 songwriter and his wife and this girl comes up to 0:49:17.600 --> 0:49:21.960 the table and they're talking and because my friend Barry Dean, 0:49:22.080 --> 0:49:26.120 he says, this is Stephanie, and uh, I said, Stephanie, 0:49:26.200 --> 0:49:28.000 some nice to meet you. And she said, well, actually 0:49:28.719 --> 0:49:34.360 we've written together. And I was like, that's embarrassing, and 0:49:34.400 --> 0:49:37.759 I trickly tried to quickly try to recover. Oh yes, yeah, 0:49:37.760 --> 0:49:41.080 I remember that it was but anyway, yeah, it's uh. 0:49:41.120 --> 0:49:43.440 But you know, we're all kind of about the songwriters 0:49:43.440 --> 0:49:46.240 are about all the next thing, like whatever has happened 0:49:46.239 --> 0:49:49.760 in the past, it's just it just doesn't matter. Songs 0:49:49.800 --> 0:49:53.799 in a sense, even the catalog, all these songs, I mean, 0:49:53.840 --> 0:49:57.080 they sound amazing. It's almost like it shocks me to 0:49:57.120 --> 0:50:01.960 hear the songs because i' songs in a sense become 0:50:02.080 --> 0:50:06.600 poison and that they will try to destroy you. So 0:50:07.840 --> 0:50:11.239 and what I mean by that is is what they 0:50:11.280 --> 0:50:13.640 do is they try to keep you in the past, 0:50:14.320 --> 0:50:16.520 and they try to prevent you from going on to 0:50:16.600 --> 0:50:20.040 the next thing. And as a writer, we have to 0:50:20.080 --> 0:50:24.239 be all about the next, the next thing. You know, 0:50:24.280 --> 0:50:26.200 the best song, it's the best song I've written, it's 0:50:26.280 --> 0:50:30.080 the next one. So you come to Nashville and eight 0:50:30.200 --> 0:50:33.160 you move away. A few years later, you move back 0:50:35.680 --> 0:50:38.840 in two thousand nine or so, you win the triple. 0:50:39.080 --> 0:50:40.719 You have a triple play three number ones in the 0:50:40.760 --> 0:50:44.920 same year. That's like movie type stuff. Well, you know 0:50:45.080 --> 0:50:48.719 it should give everybody that's you know that's still I mean, 0:50:48.719 --> 0:50:52.080 we're all aspiring, but someone that's you know that hadn't 0:50:52.160 --> 0:50:54.279 quite figured it out yet. I mean, I didn't get 0:50:54.320 --> 0:50:58.840 my first country song recorded tilst forty one. And you know, 0:50:58.920 --> 0:51:01.399 if you love it, you just you just stay with it, 0:51:01.640 --> 0:51:05.319 and it's it's a gift and you know, you just 0:51:05.360 --> 0:51:08.560 try to enjoy the god given gift of creativity and 0:51:09.320 --> 0:51:11.960 be about it, share your music with anybody and everybody 0:51:12.000 --> 0:51:16.800 that will listen. And I'm just looking at some notes 0:51:16.800 --> 0:51:22.359 here even it's just wild that you've been relevant so long, 0:51:22.960 --> 0:51:24.920 from calling Ray to Brett Elder. It's something I'm good 0:51:24.920 --> 0:51:27.479 at and with I say relevant, Like on the progressive side, 0:51:27.480 --> 0:51:31.680 you've been progressive for so long, Like that's quite the 0:51:31.800 --> 0:51:34.640 span of time to be progressive, because progression always eventually 0:51:34.640 --> 0:51:38.560 it's caught. Well, I do think about that, you know, 0:51:38.600 --> 0:51:40.799 I think one of the keys to you know, I mean, 0:51:40.800 --> 0:51:43.600 of course I'm I'm now. You know, it used to 0:51:43.600 --> 0:51:45.560 be I was like the father in the room, and 0:51:45.600 --> 0:51:48.239 now I'm the grandfather in the room. So that I 0:51:48.280 --> 0:51:50.359 think one of the ways to do that is is 0:51:50.400 --> 0:51:54.239 just to embrace that. But you know, it's continuing to 0:51:54.600 --> 0:51:57.800 I mean, I collaborate with a lot of very young people, 0:51:58.000 --> 0:52:01.520 you know, people that are like, you know, like you know, 0:52:01.600 --> 0:52:03.680 I asked, I'll, you know, come up like how old 0:52:03.680 --> 0:52:07.400 are your like, how how old are your parents? Forty five? 0:52:08.239 --> 0:52:11.080 You know, I was like, so you just you have 0:52:11.160 --> 0:52:15.200 to keep working younger, writing younger, and you know, I mean, 0:52:15.239 --> 0:52:19.000 I'm I'm trying to write the perfect song. I mean, 0:52:19.080 --> 0:52:23.239 I'm like, I'm just I'm driven to, you know, try 0:52:23.280 --> 0:52:25.600 to get better. Like that Brett Elder song. It's nuts. 0:52:27.440 --> 0:52:30.360 If you talk about rhythm, rhythm, I mean, that's a 0:52:30.400 --> 0:52:32.520 perfect case of what I'm talking about. But I mean 0:52:32.600 --> 0:52:36.280 that's again I was. I had tortured Brett for about 0:52:36.320 --> 0:52:38.680 three hours trying to write, like we'd written a song 0:52:38.719 --> 0:52:40.759 that we both love called one Mississippi that was on 0:52:40.840 --> 0:52:43.080 his first album. Loved that song, by the way, and 0:52:43.160 --> 0:52:45.200 we were trying to write that part two and just 0:52:45.239 --> 0:52:49.000 couldn't do it. And so Brett said finally was like, hey, 0:52:49.280 --> 0:52:51.719 what if we just and he just started banging out 0:52:51.840 --> 0:52:55.319 some rhythm and I just got my notebook and I 0:52:55.400 --> 0:52:58.839 just started jotting stuff down a voice, me moving him 0:52:58.880 --> 0:53:02.000 doing it, and you know, probably within an hour we 0:53:02.080 --> 0:53:04.360 kind of had it and just thought, well, at least 0:53:04.360 --> 0:53:09.000 that was like a cathartic experience. It was a cleanse 0:53:09.280 --> 0:53:12.799 and uh, you know, I mean, but that's I was 0:53:12.840 --> 0:53:16.040 just I was Brett Eldridge's lightning in a bottle and 0:53:16.040 --> 0:53:19.240 I was just trying to capture it. He's he's magic. 0:53:20.200 --> 0:53:28.920 This is Gwyneth patro song coming Home Again. That's a 0:53:29.080 --> 0:53:33.880 that's a veer. Yeah, right, she's playing a singer. Yes, 0:53:33.880 --> 0:53:38.120 she can sing. Yes, Yeah, it was that was yeah, 0:53:38.160 --> 0:53:40.680 I mean it was that was Was it written for 0:53:40.840 --> 0:53:43.799 this Yes? No. So you know, Sony kind of had 0:53:43.800 --> 0:53:47.120 an inside track when This Country Strong was being made, 0:53:47.760 --> 0:53:51.160 and so everybody in town, you know, started writing songs 0:53:51.200 --> 0:53:52.920 for it. But you literally got a script and to 0:53:53.040 --> 0:53:56.160 be like, I love writing songs for movies, So you 0:53:56.280 --> 0:53:58.399 write a script. I mean in the script is like, 0:53:59.160 --> 0:54:02.160 you know, describe the scene and you know, song needed here, 0:54:03.000 --> 0:54:06.239 and so I got with you know, Hillary Lindsay and 0:54:06.239 --> 0:54:08.719 Troy Vergis and Bob the Bureau and we you know, 0:54:08.800 --> 0:54:12.000 we wrote that together. But yeah, we were writing that 0:54:12.040 --> 0:54:16.520 for the movie. And honestly, Hillary Lindsay is like, we 0:54:16.600 --> 0:54:18.640 ever have you ever heard her sing? Oh? Yeah, we 0:54:18.680 --> 0:54:20.440 play a lot of it. I mean, so she's just 0:54:20.800 --> 0:54:23.440 so she was singing, and it was just we were 0:54:23.480 --> 0:54:27.200 just all transported to another realm. But yeah, that that 0:54:27.280 --> 0:54:30.719 was we That was Ken. Weird to see your song 0:54:30.760 --> 0:54:33.319 in the movie. It is. Yeah, of course it wasn't 0:54:33.360 --> 0:54:36.480 really in the movie that long, but you know, it's 0:54:36.480 --> 0:54:39.600 not Chicago, but even for a second. Yeah, yeah, but 0:54:39.719 --> 0:54:42.760 that was we got to go to the Golden Globes 0:54:42.840 --> 0:54:46.080 and the Oscar So that was that was that was crazy. 0:54:46.520 --> 0:54:50.759 What impresses your your family, your kids now, because you've 0:54:50.760 --> 0:54:53.719 done a lot, like what oppresses you know? I mean, 0:54:54.880 --> 0:54:57.400 I think they've been around it so long. Now. I 0:54:57.440 --> 0:55:00.239 do have a twenty six year old daughter and she's 0:55:00.280 --> 0:55:03.840 writing songs with my encouragement, and so you know, we 0:55:03.920 --> 0:55:07.560 kind of we talk shop and um, I mean I'm 0:55:07.680 --> 0:55:11.440 encouraging her and she's encouraging me. I mean, my wife 0:55:11.560 --> 0:55:14.520 is honestly read. She's co written every song I've ever ridden, 0:55:14.600 --> 0:55:16.440 you know, I mean, I've made her listen to almost 0:55:16.440 --> 0:55:20.799 every song, and she's great. She is not impressed with me, 0:55:20.960 --> 0:55:23.759 she's not impressed in music, but she she's got a 0:55:23.760 --> 0:55:27.240 great year. So occasionally, you know, I mean, she'll she'll often, 0:55:27.760 --> 0:55:30.759 you know, have a suggestion here there, and I'll begrudgingly 0:55:30.800 --> 0:55:33.480 have to have to follow it. I want to hear 0:55:33.480 --> 0:55:35.319 this demo one more time at the house to build me. 0:55:35.520 --> 0:55:39.960 It's so good. You had to be like this could 0:55:40.000 --> 0:55:41.560 be a thing when you cut this yet, like this 0:55:41.680 --> 0:55:45.160 could be the song. Well, Honestly, we think that every 0:55:45.200 --> 0:55:47.680 song we write, but even you sing it like this here, 0:55:47.719 --> 0:55:50.759 even with my vocal, every song were right, and there's 0:55:50.800 --> 0:55:53.960 a point in the process where you think this is 0:55:54.000 --> 0:55:56.680 the best songs I've written, only to be you know, 0:55:57.200 --> 0:56:00.120 disappointed about thirty minutes later. But I think you have 0:56:00.200 --> 0:56:02.560 to Jimmy what I have to scret song where it 0:56:02.600 --> 0:56:07.160 talks about suspending disbelief, you have to suspend the disbelief 0:56:07.640 --> 0:56:09.640 while you're writing to be able to write it, and 0:56:09.640 --> 0:56:12.000 you have to kind of think, God, this is you 0:56:12.040 --> 0:56:14.560 just get caught up in the magic and mystery of 0:56:14.600 --> 0:56:17.240 collaboration when you finish that. Because I have a problem 0:56:17.239 --> 0:56:20.200 with when I write, like a book or whatever I'm 0:56:20.200 --> 0:56:23.400 doing creatively, I hate it for a while. Yeah, do 0:56:23.520 --> 0:56:25.680 you ever reach that point where you've been inside of 0:56:25.719 --> 0:56:28.080 it so much that you just don't even know? Like 0:56:28.280 --> 0:56:30.560 where was I? What was I don't even understand what 0:56:30.600 --> 0:56:33.120 I'm trying to do here? Yeah, I mean I feel 0:56:33.160 --> 0:56:37.200 like that constantly. But again, I think the thing that 0:56:37.239 --> 0:56:40.160 we have to tell ourselves is, look, that's somebody else's 0:56:40.239 --> 0:56:45.239 responsibility to make those value judgments. You're that's not your job. 0:56:45.320 --> 0:56:49.040 You're that's the job of the publisher, of of somebody else. 0:56:49.120 --> 0:56:51.200 I think when we get too much in the headset 0:56:51.239 --> 0:56:54.480 of a critic or a somebody on the business end 0:56:54.520 --> 0:56:58.839 of it, it's somehow thwarts the creative process. So, you know, 0:56:58.920 --> 0:57:03.040 it's like the critic in our head is you know, 0:57:03.120 --> 0:57:05.520 that's the arch enemy that we have to We just 0:57:05.560 --> 0:57:09.520 have to constantly try to silence the critic who's trying 0:57:09.520 --> 0:57:12.080 to get you not the right or to be too critical, 0:57:12.320 --> 0:57:15.560 or you know, just to be inside your head instead 0:57:15.560 --> 0:57:18.520 of you know, being on the paper, being present. It's 0:57:18.520 --> 0:57:22.560 a it takes great mental discipline to do this, don't 0:57:22.560 --> 0:57:27.280 you think I don't have it, like and again, all right, 0:57:27.360 --> 0:57:29.400 in a lot of different ways, you know, constent up 0:57:29.400 --> 0:57:33.360 comedy books, you know. But my discipline is just continuing 0:57:33.400 --> 0:57:35.200 to do it. But there's nothing that I do and 0:57:35.240 --> 0:57:37.560 I come away from it going that was good. Ever, 0:57:37.640 --> 0:57:39.120 because I get inside of it and I'm like, this 0:57:39.200 --> 0:57:41.000 is not funny anymore, this is not good anymore, This 0:57:41.040 --> 0:57:42.640 is not compelling, and I just want to run away 0:57:42.640 --> 0:57:45.560 from it. Every time I want to run away. But well, 0:57:45.600 --> 0:57:47.439 I know, I mean I feel like that too. I am, 0:57:47.600 --> 0:57:51.880 so I get so dissatisfied. I just you know you could. 0:57:51.920 --> 0:57:54.520 It's it's just it's up and down. The last couple 0:57:54.520 --> 0:57:56.560 of weeks, all I can think about is all the 0:57:56.640 --> 0:58:02.320 time I've wasted and all the all the opportunities I missed. 0:58:02.400 --> 0:58:07.760 I really am, I've just been. And then I started 0:58:07.800 --> 0:58:11.560 singing the scoreboard clocks shows up again. I'm like, wow, 0:58:12.320 --> 0:58:16.600 am I am? I take am? I am? I using 0:58:16.640 --> 0:58:19.920 the time that I have, you know, to its greatest 0:58:20.840 --> 0:58:25.920 asset and you know that those are That's okay to 0:58:26.000 --> 0:58:27.920 do that for a while, but you've gotta get rescued 0:58:27.960 --> 0:58:31.320 from that otherwise you just again that's start. When I 0:58:31.360 --> 0:58:33.840 do that, I'm like, all right, I'm worrying about the 0:58:34.240 --> 0:58:39.080 the end result, which is is Tim mcgrawl or Blake Shelter, 0:58:39.200 --> 0:58:42.080 Is anybody going to care about this? And then when 0:58:42.080 --> 0:58:45.160 when when you get there, then you're you're kind of sunk. 0:58:45.240 --> 0:58:47.600 Get to quickly get off that and be like, oh 0:58:47.680 --> 0:58:50.240 wait a minute, that doesn't matter. What matters is the 0:58:50.280 --> 0:58:53.200 next song I gotta write. So how much do I 0:58:53.200 --> 0:58:54.840 owe you for this? Our class? I just took, like 0:58:55.000 --> 0:58:56.800 these kids coming up, this has been like therapy. I 0:58:56.840 --> 0:58:59.200 should pay you about four just to listen to it. 0:58:59.480 --> 0:59:03.080 Probably in the well. I've enjoyed it has been. This 0:59:03.160 --> 0:59:05.200 has been a fun hour for me. I appreciate you 0:59:05.200 --> 0:59:10.080 coming by. Can people take your class? Get there? Leg well? 0:59:10.160 --> 0:59:13.200 I honestly, I got so busy I don't have time. 0:59:13.240 --> 0:59:17.600 I didn't I've had to temporarily halt teaching at Belmont. 0:59:17.720 --> 0:59:19.920 But I mean, I'm very involved with the n s 0:59:20.000 --> 0:59:23.640 a I, which is a great organization. And uh, I 0:59:23.920 --> 0:59:27.680 I love talking is I'm not really teaching. I'm I'm 0:59:27.800 --> 0:59:31.000 co learning with somebody. So it's like I love talking 0:59:31.040 --> 0:59:34.640 about it, I love working through it. Um, we really, 0:59:34.720 --> 0:59:37.800 you know, creative people, we really we need community, We 0:59:37.840 --> 0:59:41.680 need each other, We need people to remind us of, 0:59:41.960 --> 0:59:45.360 you know, of of all that we've got and um, 0:59:45.400 --> 0:59:46.960 you know, all that we're doing and all that we're 0:59:47.000 --> 0:59:51.040 doing well, you know, because I think the default, the 0:59:51.200 --> 0:59:54.000 normal default position in my mind is just to think 0:59:54.040 --> 0:59:57.040 of all that I haven't done well and the you know, 0:59:57.080 --> 1:00:00.320 all the time that I've wasted. But U it's been 1:00:00.400 --> 1:00:03.680 very encouraging for me today. But I'm telling you, I mean, 1:00:04.400 --> 1:00:06.960 you may not see it like that, but you're you're 1:00:07.560 --> 1:00:11.600 you're incredibly creative and you're it's not contrived and it's 1:00:11.720 --> 1:00:16.040 fluid and it's fun, and it's it's transparent. It takes 1:00:16.120 --> 1:00:18.320 you know, and you you do risk a lot, but 1:00:18.480 --> 1:00:22.400 I mean that's that's part of that's part of what 1:00:22.440 --> 1:00:25.640 we love about what you do is that it's it's 1:00:25.680 --> 1:00:30.600 somehow you know, when you're when you're willing to risk transparency, 1:00:30.680 --> 1:00:34.120 it allows other people to kind of overlay their life 1:00:34.120 --> 1:00:37.720 onto onto what you're doing and kind of live vicariously 1:00:37.760 --> 1:00:41.440 through it. So that's all we're trying to do is 1:00:41.520 --> 1:00:45.600 just continue to you know, kind of create art that 1:00:45.680 --> 1:00:49.440 other people can can. You know, when we see the 1:00:49.440 --> 1:00:52.800 Mona Lisa, we're like, there's something about her smile that 1:00:53.320 --> 1:00:57.000 allows us to overlay our life on that, or Harry 1:00:57.040 --> 1:01:00.760 Potter or you know, to kill a mock bird or 1:01:01.680 --> 1:01:03.680 you know, it's like that's what art. That's what I think. 1:01:03.680 --> 1:01:06.280 That's why God gave us art is it allows us 1:01:06.320 --> 1:01:11.440 to um, you know, find out something about ourselves, you know. 1:01:12.560 --> 1:01:14.480 But the key to it has got to be transparent 1:01:14.560 --> 1:01:17.360 and vulnerable. And that's at I'm not easy to do. 1:01:17.920 --> 1:01:22.320 I've enjoyed the hour. I've really enjoyed the hour. Oh man, 1:01:23.560 --> 1:01:26.880 I feel like I just went back to school. Episode 1:01:27.000 --> 1:01:32.200 seventy one with Tom Douglas and I'm gonna go revalue. 1:01:32.200 --> 1:01:35.400 I'm gonna look a the scoreboard in my bedroom, reevaluate 1:01:35.440 --> 1:01:38.160 a LoVa and do it. And thanks Tomas, I'll buy 1:01:38.320 --> 1:01:42.000 enjoying it. I'll see you next time. Thank you everybody,