1 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly 3 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 1: Frye and I'm Tracy V. 4 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:16,240 Speaker 2: Wilson. 5 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: It's Halloween season, which I love, and this episode is 6 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:24,279 Speaker 1: kind of Halloween. But I feel like I need to 7 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: warn everybody who says I love your Halloween episodes that 8 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: this is not one of our more jovial Halloween ones. 9 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: We're going to cover a sixteenth century nobleman and composer 10 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 1: who is seen by a whole lot of people as 11 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:40,840 Speaker 1: a monster in his own time, and that is Carlo Jesualdau. 12 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 1: If you are a music person, you probably know about him. 13 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: Gsoildo's madrigals are unique and captivating, and there are so 14 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 1: many stories of people hearing his work and then wanting 15 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: to know about the man who composed them, and that 16 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: man's story is intent. So heads up that this one 17 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: does contain some very intense domestic violence. I would say 18 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: that this is probably not one for younger history buffs. 19 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 1: I know every kid is different, but this one is 20 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: extra grizzly. Yeah, so if you think your kid might 21 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: be okay with it, maybe give it a preview. 22 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 2: Listen first yeah, Carlo Gesualdo, was born in fifteen sixty six. 23 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:24,040 Speaker 2: His father was Don Fabrizio, and he had a wide 24 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:28,680 Speaker 2: variety of noble titles Prince of Venosa, Duke of Cagiano, 25 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 2: Marquis of Lino, and Count of Cosa. Carlo was the 26 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:37,680 Speaker 2: second son in the family, which had very influential members. 27 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 2: Carlo's uncle on his father's side was Cardinal Alfonso Gesualdo, 28 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 2: who at one time was a candidate to be Pope. 29 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 2: His mother was Giroloma Boromeo, and on her side Carlo 30 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 2: had an uncle who had been instrumental in the counter Reformation. 31 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 2: His great uncle, through his mother was Pope Pious the Fourth. 32 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: We don't know a whole lot about Carlo's childhood. It's 33 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: presumed that he was born in the town of Geesualdo, 34 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 1: which is named for his family. The Geesualdos came to 35 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 1: power there in the eleven hundreds, and they built a 36 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: castle which remains today. But Carlo could have also been 37 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: born in Naples, or even in southern Italy, where the 38 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: family had property. He spent time in all of those 39 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: places in his youth. We do know that he had 40 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: a proclivity for and studied music with Stefano Felie and 41 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: Giovanni Demac. Sometimes there have been claims that he also 42 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:37,639 Speaker 1: studied with Pomponia, but he and Carlo were actually very 43 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 1: close in age, so that claim seems very unlikely. He 44 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: was known to be, among other things, extremely good at 45 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 1: playing the lute, and the first musical composition we have 46 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: by Gisualdo is from fifteen eighty five, when he was 47 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: nineteen years old. In fifteen eighty six, Gesualdo, who was 48 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 1: then twenty, got married, and this was a bit of 49 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 1: a shift in plans for Don Fabrizio's second son, being 50 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: from a family with a lot of power in the 51 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 1: Catholic Church. As a second son, it was expected that 52 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: Carlo would follow that path. But then Carlo's older brother Luigi, 53 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: who was expected to inherit their father's titles and responsibilities, 54 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,639 Speaker 1: died in fifteen eighty five at the age of twenty, 55 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 1: and that meant suddenly Carlo had to take on the 56 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: family mantle, and part of that included finding a wife, 57 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: getting married, making them heirs. His wife was Maria Davolos, 58 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 1: who was twenty four or twenty five, depending on the source. 59 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 1: Sometimes you will even see her listed as twenty one. 60 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: I will say, if you look up any of this, 61 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: all of the ages get a little blurry because there 62 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: are multiple different stories that put them at different places. 63 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: But the important thing here was that even though she 64 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: was still pretty young, Maria was a widow two times 65 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 1: over when she and Carlo married. She was also Carlo's 66 00:03:56,760 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: first cousin, and her first husband, Federico Karaza, reportedly died 67 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: during sexual intercourse with the notoriously beautiful Maria. Although that 68 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: is unsurprisingly not something that there's a lot of substantiation for, 69 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 1: it's highly possible that is a rumor that developed as 70 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 1: part of the Jeesualdo legend, because there are a lot 71 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:21,159 Speaker 1: of rumors. Maria divorced her second husband, Alfonso di Giuliano, 72 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 1: after receiving a papal decree to do so, although you 73 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: will also see it written that he died the same 74 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 1: way as her first husband sometimes. Carlo and Maria's wedding 75 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 1: was a big, lavish affair, and the reception reportedly lasted 76 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: for several days. Their union also seems to have been 77 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 1: quite joyous, at least initially. Carlo and Maria had a son, 78 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:47,840 Speaker 1: Don Emanuele, the year after they married, but theirs was 79 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 1: a marriage that started out happy and ended in a 80 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 1: horrific manner. A few years into the marriage, in fifteen ninety, 81 00:04:56,320 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: Jeesualdo discovered that Maria Davolos was having an affair, and 82 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:03,280 Speaker 1: that it had been going on for a while and 83 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 1: most insulting of all, in his own home. We don't 84 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 1: know for certain how he discovered this information. One account 85 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:14,599 Speaker 1: says that he was told about it by his friend 86 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 1: Don Julio, who incidentally had actually been trying to start 87 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: his own romance with Maria himself, but had been rebuked, 88 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:24,600 Speaker 1: and in that version of the story, Maria and her 89 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: paramour put their romance on hold for a while, knowing 90 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: that they had been found out. That paramour was Fabrizio Carafa, 91 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: the Duke of Andrea. Fabrizio, like Maria, was by all accounts, 92 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 1: just incredibly attractive, as well as being quite courteous and 93 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:44,479 Speaker 1: very charming. We don't know, though, if the story of 94 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:48,479 Speaker 1: them knowing that Carlo had found out their secret is true. 95 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 2: Carlo and his friends or maybe his servants, again depending 96 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 2: on the source, set a trap for the lovers, and 97 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 2: when they knew that they were going to be alone together, 98 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 2: set upon them He had told Maria that he was 99 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 2: leaving for an overnight hunting trip, and he expected she 100 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 2: would take advantage of his absence to invite her lover 101 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:13,720 Speaker 2: to spend the night. This she apparently did, but Gisualdo 102 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 2: did not actually leave Naples. He went to a friend's 103 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 2: house nearby, and then he returned home at midnight. Now 104 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 2: this is one version of the story. Hunting comes up 105 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 2: again in a moment, and this is where things are 106 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 2: going to start to get grizzly. So you can just 107 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 2: skip ahead a little if you'd like, maybe a lot. 108 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:38,039 Speaker 2: The day after the alleged hunting trip, the Gesualdou apartment 109 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 2: was inspected by a group of men who had been 110 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 2: given that task by the city of Naples and the church. 111 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 2: And that is because there were dead bodies in it, 112 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 2: and those had been reported by the house staff. It 113 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 2: is from those officials' accounts of the scene that we 114 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 2: know what happened. The body of Fabrizio Carafa was found dead, 115 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 2: wearing a woman's night dress presumed Maria's. He had been 116 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 2: stabbed repeatedly all over his body and also shot twice, 117 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 2: once threw his arm and into his chest, and another 118 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 2: time in the head because there were cuts found on 119 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 2: the floor underneath cut off his body. It was determined 120 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 2: that he had been stabbed with swords multiple times while 121 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 2: lying prone. Maria had also been murdered. Her body was 122 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 2: on the bed, also wearing a nightgown. Her throat was slit, 123 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 2: and she too had been stabbed repeatedly, and the large, 124 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 2: heavy door to the room had been smashed in such 125 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 2: a way that it could no longer close. After the 126 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 2: investigators made their initial round of observations, two coffins were 127 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 2: brought to the rooms. Fabrizio's body was washed and then 128 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 2: examined more closely. Once blood wasn't obscuring all of the injuries. 129 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 2: His body was then dressed in black silk breeches and 130 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 2: a black velvet jerkin and placed into one of the coffins. 131 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 2: All of this was in accordance of the wishes of 132 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 2: his family, Maria's and the Marquisess DeVico arrived to prepare 133 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 2: and dress Maria's body with the aid of the servants, 134 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,119 Speaker 2: and then that body was then taken to the Church 135 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 2: of San Domenico. 136 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 1: When a court assembled by the church questioned witnesses, they 137 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 1: got the story that Jeesualdo had led his accomplices into 138 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 1: the apartment, yelling that he would not be made a cuckold. 139 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:32,559 Speaker 1: He also was seen by witnesses coming out of the 140 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: room covered in blood, saying he did not believe they 141 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 1: were dead, and going back in. Authorities first question Sylvia Albana, 142 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 1: a woman of twenty who had been Maria's maid. She 143 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 1: told investigators that she had been asked by Maria to 144 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: bring her an extra nightgown the evening of the murders. 145 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: Maria had claimed that hers was sweaty. The gown Sylvia 146 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: described bringing match the details of the one that Fabrizio 147 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: had been wearing when he was killed. She was also 148 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 1: told to leave the door unlocked and to only go 149 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 1: into Maria's chambers if she was specifically called for. After this, 150 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: Sylvia then went to her room and fell asleep, and 151 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: she reported being awakened by noise in the middle of 152 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: the night. The door to her room was thrown open 153 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: and she saw three men she couldn't identify passing through 154 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 1: the hall. She also saw Carlo Josualdo enter the house 155 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: in a rage, and she eventually hid under the bed 156 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:32,119 Speaker 1: until the whole thing was over and Joswaldo's personal attendant 157 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: told her it was safe to come out and that 158 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 1: the two victims were dead. 159 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 2: Pietro Bardatti, who was Carlo's personal assistant, was the person 160 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 2: who had told Sylvia that it was safe to come 161 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 2: out and was the next to testify. He had worked 162 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 2: for the family for twenty eight years, and his testimony 163 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 2: mentions hunting, but that it was something that Carlo said 164 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 2: he was going to do. When he got up in 165 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 2: his own room and got dressed just before the murders, 166 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 2: he told Pietro to get two torches and pulled out 167 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 2: several weapons, including a sword, a dagger, and a gun. 168 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 2: Pietro stated that Carlo said, as he went up the stairs, quote, 169 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:13,959 Speaker 2: I am going to massacre the Duke of Andrea and 170 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:18,559 Speaker 2: the strumpet Donna Maria. Gesualdo was joined by three other 171 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 2: armed men. They all entered Maria's room together. Pietro stayed 172 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 2: outside and reported that he heard firearms discharged, but none 173 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,439 Speaker 2: of what the men had said. It was his testimony 174 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 2: that includes Gesualdo coming out and saying that he didn't 175 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 2: think the pair were dead before stabbing them. Several additional times. 176 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mentioned I included in the outline and didn't 177 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 1: really clarify for Tracy to read that. I wanted to 178 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 1: include that note that Carlo wakes up and says he's 179 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 1: going hunting, because that seems like it may have gotten 180 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:58,200 Speaker 1: confused in a translation or the record, because the one 181 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 1: version says he's going hunting for them, and in the 182 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: other he tells his attendant, I'm going hunting, meaning he 183 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 1: is going to kill these people, and I think that 184 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:12,319 Speaker 1: may have gotten a little bit fuzzy somewhere along the line. 185 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 1: But coming up, we are going to talk about the 186 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: aftermath of this brutal event. But first let's just take 187 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 1: a little breath and pause, and we'll have a sponsor break. 188 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 1: Here's the thing. The church determined that this double murder 189 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 1: was technically legal. This was considered a valid form of 190 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:44,079 Speaker 1: revenge carried out by an aristocratic husband on a spouse 191 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: who was dishonoring him and his family's name, so it 192 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: was an honor killing. There were no legal charges, and 193 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: Geoswaldo faced no legal repercussions whatsoever, despite the manner of 194 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: the murder having a lot of extraneous violence and possibly 195 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: even torture. 196 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:04,319 Speaker 2: One of the issues that people had with the murder, 197 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 2: even though under the laws as Waldo was acting acceptably, 198 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 2: was that he had accomplices. Normally, an honor killing of 199 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:16,079 Speaker 2: this nature was something that the wronged person was expected 200 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 2: to do himself. So though the church came to the 201 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 2: conclusion that he was justified in killing Maria and Fabrizio, 202 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 2: he had, in the eyes of the community, done something 203 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 2: that was considered wrong in terms of the accepted noble 204 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 2: etiquette of the day. 205 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 1: And though there were no ramifications in a court of law, 206 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 1: Josualdo's reputation did become quite tarnished in the court of 207 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:44,319 Speaker 1: public opinion. The absolutely brutal details of the murder scene 208 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 1: were also reported all over Naples and beyond. Everyone was 209 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 1: eager to learn all of the horrific specifics, and some 210 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 1: of the more tabloid papers started to exaggerate even beyond 211 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:59,840 Speaker 1: the already intense descriptions of the scene, and so soon 212 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 1: Carlow took on this almost mythic image, like a contemporary 213 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: wealthy boogeyman who was walking among the people of the city. 214 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: A lot of the fake details that were reported were 215 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: downright outlandish. Some sounded believable for a dramatic revenge killing. 216 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:21,839 Speaker 1: For instance, that the dead lover's genitalia had been mutilated, 217 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 1: but other accounts emerged that described as Waldo also murdering 218 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 1: a baby that the pair had secretly had together, and 219 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 1: him leaving their corpses out in public to rot so 220 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 1: that everyone could see them. The list really goes on 221 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: and on, and there's no substantiation for any of these details, 222 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 1: but grizly gossip is really hard for people to resist, 223 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 1: so these stories were repeated over and over. There's even 224 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:53,839 Speaker 1: one version of the story where Maria basically surprises just 225 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 1: Waldo with an infant son, and he only thinks that 226 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: it looks like Fabrisa and winds up killing his own child. 227 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 1: Whether there was ever an actual infanticide is really difficult 228 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: to discern. Yeah, it's told so many different ways in 229 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 1: so many different stories, and there's never any mention of 230 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 1: Maria having been pregnant, so it's like what that, I 231 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: don't really know. Once the church cleared Giswaldo of wrongdoing, though, 232 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 1: he left Naples no doubt fearing that he might become 233 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 1: a victim himself, particularly by either of his victim's families. 234 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 1: That had even more weight though than you might imagine, 235 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: because all three of the families involved were deeply connected 236 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 1: to one another, so in his decision to kill Maria 237 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 1: and Fabrizio Geoswaldo was also destroying generations of goodwill among 238 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 1: the most powerful families in Naples. And after leaving the city, 239 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 1: he moved about eighty five kilometers east to the town 240 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 1: of Goswaldo, where his family was from. We said earlier 241 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 1: They had a castle there, and Carlo moved in. 242 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 2: In fifteen ninety one, the year after the murders. Gisualdo's 243 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 2: father died. So as he was becoming a villainous figure 244 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 2: to all of Naples, he was also under pressure to 245 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 2: marry again. He also became, through this inheritance, one of 246 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 2: the richest men in Italy, but it was in his 247 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 2: and his family's best interest to find a wealthy and 248 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 2: well connected wife who would further bolster his standing. He 249 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 2: found that woman in Ferraro, which is roughly six hundred 250 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 2: and twenty kilometers north of Naples. He made his way 251 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 2: to northern Italy with a friend, Count Fontanelli. Fontinelli kept 252 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 2: a journal of these travels and their stops along the way. 253 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 2: In Florence in Rome, they note that Gesualdo carried his 254 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 2: first two books of madrigals with him on the journey, 255 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 2: because Ferrero was a music city. In fifteen ninety four, 256 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 2: Carlo married Eleonora Deste, noble woman who was from Ferrara, 257 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 2: and in a classic case of double standards, Carlo was 258 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 2: not faithful to Eleonora. He kind of wasn't all that 259 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 2: interested in his marriage in general. But Eleonora was closely 260 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 2: related to Alfonso, the second Deeste, Duke of Ferrara. Some 261 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 2: sources call her. 262 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: The Duke's cousin and some say that she was his sister, 263 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 1: but regardless, marrying her put Shoswaldo at the center of 264 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 1: the Ferrara music scene, which was hopping at the time, 265 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 1: and this is the period where he published his first 266 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:37,119 Speaker 1: madrigals and his work as a composer became his focus. 267 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 2: He became close friends with a composer Luzzasco Luzzaski and Ferira. 268 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 2: Earlier in the sixteenth century, a composer named Nikola Vicentino 269 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 2: had invented an instrument known as the archchamblo, and Luzzatski 270 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 2: was one of the few people who could play it. 271 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 2: This was like a piano keyboard, but instead of twelve 272 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 2: keys assigned to each Ocdavit, he had thirty one, and 273 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 2: so this allowed music to be composed in microtnes. This 274 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:10,919 Speaker 2: instrument clearly fascinated Gezwaldo. Honestly, it sounds fascinating to me. 275 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 2: He had one of his own when he died. Writing 276 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:18,159 Speaker 2: for The New Yorker in twenty eleven, Alex Ross writes 277 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:21,719 Speaker 2: of this instrument, quote, to modern ears, its harmonies can 278 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 2: sound either exceptionally pure or exceptionally weird, or both at once. 279 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 2: Having read a number of commentaries on jus Waldo's work, 280 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 2: the same sentiment as echoed about this. 281 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 1: During his time in Ferrara, Joswalde has said to have 282 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: talked everyone's ear off about his music, and he was 283 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:44,919 Speaker 1: always eager to show people the scores he had written. 284 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 1: He was among his fellow nobles, but he was unique 285 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:51,880 Speaker 1: in his position as an artist. He was so rich 286 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 1: that he could write exclusively for himself. He needed no patrons. 287 00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: He could also pay to publish his work. He didn't 288 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 1: need any connection help there either, and he seemed to 289 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 1: recognize this privilege to some degree, because he decided having 290 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 1: it meant that he could seek to make compositions that 291 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:11,160 Speaker 1: were completely new. 292 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 2: After two years in Ferrara, Gesualdo moved back to Naples 293 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 2: with the intention that he was done with travel forever 294 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 2: and he would only move between his home in Naples 295 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:26,919 Speaker 2: and the family castle edge. As Waldo Alfonso the second 296 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:29,679 Speaker 2: died that year, and since he had no heir, the 297 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:33,439 Speaker 2: wife's family did not retain their power, Ferrara became a 298 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 2: papal duchy. There really wasn't any reason to stay there 299 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 2: as far as Gesualdo was concerned. He had been in 300 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 2: love with Alfonso the Second's court full of artists, and 301 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:47,879 Speaker 2: without that he could just diseasily go home and compose 302 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 2: music there. 303 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:52,439 Speaker 1: He also decided that he would fund the construction of 304 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 1: a monastery at the family seat, and that's the Convento 305 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: de Cappuccini. It's believed that this was part of an 306 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 1: effort on his part to make up for the murders 307 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:04,439 Speaker 1: of fifteen ninety. He was feeling a little bit of 308 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:08,360 Speaker 1: guilt in his later years. The altarpiece of the chapel, 309 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:12,639 Speaker 1: which Jesualdo commissioned, features him in the image. That image 310 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:16,399 Speaker 1: is focused on Christ pardoning people for their sins, and 311 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: Gisualdo is shown kneeling in the lower left of the 312 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:21,200 Speaker 1: image showing his penitence. 313 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 2: So there's more weird stuff to come, but before we 314 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 2: get to that, we will hear from the sponsors that 315 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 2: keep the show going. 316 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,400 Speaker 1: In fifteen ninety seven, Eleonora gave birth to a son, 317 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,880 Speaker 1: so at that point Carlo had two heirs. The pair 318 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 1: also reportedly had two daughters, but there's not a whole 319 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:51,919 Speaker 1: lot of information about them. But his son with Desta 320 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 1: died as a toddler in sixteen hundred, and that death, 321 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,639 Speaker 1: combined with his ongoing regret about the murders of fifteen 322 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 1: ninety catalyzed a downward spiral for Schisweldo. After that, his 323 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 1: only source of comfort was his music. Carlo became so 324 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 1: obsessed with his music that apparently he just could not 325 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:17,400 Speaker 1: cope with anything else. He was miserable when he wasn't composing, 326 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:21,880 Speaker 1: but not just sullen or unhappy. He's described as being 327 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 1: so depressed and tortured in his non music life that 328 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:31,199 Speaker 1: he started to dabble in distraction behaviors that were taboo. Reportedly, 329 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:34,919 Speaker 1: he got involved with sadomasochism and hired a staff of 330 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:38,119 Speaker 1: between ten and twelve men to live in his home, 331 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 1: with their sole purpose being to. 332 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:43,880 Speaker 2: Whip and abuse him. He reportedly wanted to be whipped 333 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 2: three times a day. He said to have only smiled 334 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:51,639 Speaker 2: during these sessions, and eventually developed a psychological tick in 335 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 2: which he could only use the bathroom if he was 336 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:59,119 Speaker 2: being whipped. In sixteen oh three, his wife Eleonora filed 337 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:04,639 Speaker 2: a suit again aint Joswaldo's mistress. Perhaps she may have 338 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:08,159 Speaker 2: just had some meetings with people that resulted in it 339 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 2: and not actually taken a legal action. There was apparently 340 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:15,359 Speaker 2: a trial. Some accounts attribute that origin to his wife, 341 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 2: others do not. But the important thing is two women 342 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 2: who lived in Joswaldo's home were accused of witchcraft or sorcery. 343 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 2: Their names were Aurelia Derrico and Poli Sandra Pezzella, and 344 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 2: one of them confessed under torture. Her testimony is graphic 345 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:37,119 Speaker 2: and intense, and it includes descriptions of giving Joswaldo potions 346 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:41,679 Speaker 2: and meals that included her bodily fluids as ingredients. This 347 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 2: is definitely not for the squeamish among our listeners. I 348 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 2: was initially going to leave it out, but there are 349 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:50,920 Speaker 2: details that showed just how much misinformation was floating about 350 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 2: during this time about basic medical facts. So I want 351 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:57,719 Speaker 2: to include it because it also informs how kind of 352 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 2: embellished his story gets. But we are not even going 353 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 2: to get into the grossest parts. And still, if you're squeamish, 354 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:05,440 Speaker 2: this next section may not. 355 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: Be for you. 356 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:11,440 Speaker 2: Several witnesses stated that Aurelia and Carlo had been involved 357 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 2: on and off for a decade, but that he had 358 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 2: been ignoring her since he married his second wife. She 359 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,200 Speaker 2: decided that she would make him a love potion. Several 360 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 2: witnesses stated that she had given Josualdo her menstrual blood 361 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:31,919 Speaker 2: in these potions. Four physicians testified that menstrual blood is 362 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 2: poisonous and that it would kill a man if he 363 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 2: wasn't given a treatment or an antidote. They also said 364 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 2: that they felt he was afflicted with something supernatural. 365 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 1: Other witnesses in the case stated that Aurelia had meetings 366 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 1: with a man named Antonio Paallla of Montemarano, who was 367 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 1: known to be a sorcerer. Aurelia apparently told several people 368 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: that she didn't give Carlo the blood to hurt him. 369 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:00,640 Speaker 1: She wanted him to have to come back to her 370 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:01,640 Speaker 1: to be healed. 371 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 2: Both women were found guilty and their sentence was house 372 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 2: arrest in Giswaldo's castle. This was not something that he wanted. 373 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,879 Speaker 2: He actually lobbied for the women to be hanged, but 374 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 2: they stayed at the castle from the time of the sentencing, 375 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 2: at least until sixteen oh seven, when they kind of 376 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 2: vanished from any of the records. In sixteen oh eight, 377 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 2: Carlo and Eleanora separated. Her brothers actually petitioned the church 378 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,640 Speaker 2: for Eleonora to be granted a divorce. Some accounts say 379 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 2: that that was granted by the church, but Eleonora did 380 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,160 Speaker 2: not go through with it. There have been a variety 381 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 2: of contradictory accounts over the years, some suggesting she actually 382 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,399 Speaker 2: did leave and live the rest of her life away 383 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 2: from him, but that doesn't appear to have really been 384 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:54,480 Speaker 2: the case. In sixteen thirteen, Giswaldo's first son, who was 385 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:58,160 Speaker 2: an adult at the age of twenty seven, died after 386 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 2: falling from a horse. He is said to have detested 387 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 2: his father, and he had no sons himself, only daughters. 388 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 2: Carlo Gesualdo died two weeks later, on September eighth, sixteen thirteen, 389 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 2: at the age of forty seven. He reportedly died during 390 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:18,439 Speaker 2: one of his requested beatings, with no heirs to the 391 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:23,639 Speaker 2: family remaining, the Gezualdo line ended. Folklore versions of this 392 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 2: story have attributed the end of the family lineage to 393 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:30,120 Speaker 2: some kind of curse that Carlo brought upon himself when 394 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 2: he murdered his wife and her paramour. 395 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 1: Goswaldo's musical legacy, like his life, is somewhat complicated. His 396 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 1: work is lauded by a lot of people as being 397 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 1: far ahead of its time, and it's sometimes called a 398 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:48,120 Speaker 1: sort of precursor to Wagner. Wagner didn't compose his striking 399 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 1: works until two hundred and fifty years later. Joswaldo's madrigals, 400 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:56,200 Speaker 1: in particular feature harmonies that are often described as being 401 00:24:56,320 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 1: sort of unsettling. Additionally, according to a lot of musicians, 402 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:04,399 Speaker 1: they are very hard to perform. There are in total 403 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 1: six books of madrigals which feature more than one hundred 404 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 1: and forty pieces of music. That's all in total, and 405 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 1: those constitute the majority of his work. Madrigals are compositions 406 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:21,200 Speaker 1: exclusively for voice. There's no instrumental accompaniment. They are typically 407 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: based on secular texts. The vast majority of just Waldo's 408 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:30,120 Speaker 1: madrigals are for five voices. These works are characterized by 409 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,159 Speaker 1: the use of chromaticism, which uses a lot of half 410 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:37,680 Speaker 1: tone steps. By contrasts in a diatonic scale, which you 411 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,399 Speaker 1: might remember from music classes as do re Mi fa 412 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 1: sol Latido, uses five whole steps and two half steps 413 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 1: for a total of eight tones per octave. The chromatic 414 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:52,159 Speaker 1: scale uses twelve, and in very simple terms, those extra 415 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 1: five half steps are why just Waldo's music is often 416 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:59,919 Speaker 1: described as kind of eerie, particularly when he composes harmonies 417 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 1: of five voices and several of them are only a 418 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 1: half step apart. This is a very simplistic explanation. My 419 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,639 Speaker 1: grasp of music theory is quite tenuous, and I'm frank 420 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:15,879 Speaker 1: about that, but yeah, I did spend a lot of 421 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:23,719 Speaker 1: time watching videos about music theory. So per wb Ober, 422 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 1: writing in the Bulletin of the New York Academy of 423 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: Medicine in nineteen seventy three, quote Gswaldo's expressive effects are 424 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:35,160 Speaker 1: achieved by slow progressions of chromatic chords and short, piercing 425 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: cries of melody, which express pain, suffering, and thoughts of death. 426 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:46,879 Speaker 1: They alternate with brilliant contrapuntal passages to match words of joy, love, 427 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: or any sort of active movement. The first two books 428 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 1: of Gswaldo's compositions are the most like his contemporaries. They 429 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: work from existing poetry, althoughos Waldo's arrangements based on that 430 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:03,119 Speaker 1: poetry are unlike any of the other composers writing at 431 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 1: the time. In his third book, he starts to mingle 432 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 1: original writing into the poetry, and then the last three 433 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 1: books of his madrigals all use entirely original texts. We 434 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 1: don't know if Carlo Jesualdo wrote the text or commissioned it, 435 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: but none of it appears to have existed before he 436 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 1: published his books, and their themes are very dark. They 437 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 1: reference death, sadness, and pain throughout, and this has led 438 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 1: to some people interpreting the last two books in particular 439 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:36,479 Speaker 1: as being sort of an autobiography for the composer. His 440 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 1: original verses, when translated, often reference finding joy in pain. 441 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 1: One text translated into English reads quote words sweet and dear, 442 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 1: you make me suffer, but the wound in my heart 443 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:56,400 Speaker 1: feels not pain, but only delight. Another says the same sentiment, quote, indeed, 444 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 1: my pains make me joyful. But he was not the 445 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 1: only composer using dark themes for madrigals. Many composers of 446 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:08,880 Speaker 1: the time used the poems of Gesualdo's friend Torcado Tasso, 447 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,119 Speaker 1: who wrote of the Willingness to suffer quote the Wrath 448 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:16,200 Speaker 1: of a Beautiful Hand. Tasso and Carlo met in fifteen 449 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 1: eighty eight, and they remained friends for the next seven years. 450 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,879 Speaker 1: Tasso died in fifteen ninety five, but in that time 451 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 1: he dedicated three sonnets to Jusualdo. So while other composers 452 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 1: may have used Tasso's words, Carlo it seemed, had sort 453 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 1: of the inside track when it came to the themes 454 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: that the poet wrote about. Jozwaldo also wrote three books 455 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: of sacred music. In sixteen eleven, he published a cycle 456 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 1: of prayers which is commonly called Tenebre Responsoria. It is 457 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: a series of pieces intended to be sung during Holy Week, 458 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 1: the week before Easter, and the prayers that he uses 459 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 1: are the ones from the Passion that tell the story 460 00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 1: of Christ's life. Numerous essays and articles have been written 461 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:05,719 Speaker 1: about whether people remain fascinated with Jezualdo's work because of 462 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 1: his turbulent and violent life, or if it's indeed something 463 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,960 Speaker 1: special and unique on its own. Regarding his mental state, 464 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 1: it's easy to make assumptions based on the information that 465 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 1: we have. Once again, writing in nineteen seventy three, W. B. Ober, 466 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 1: who was a historian and pathologist, wrote of using modern 467 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 1: analysis to Diagnoseswaldo quote. Having examined Juswalder's life and glanced 468 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 1: into his workshop, can we now construct an explanation perforce? 469 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 1: Any attempt at psychobiography at a removal of three and 470 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 1: one half centuries has severe limitations. Important details are lacking, 471 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 1: and a sequential reconstruction of events cannot be attempted. Nor 472 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 1: is a review. 473 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 2: Of such data as are known, and an examination of 474 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 2: musical materials any sort of substitute for a doctor patient 475 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 2: confrontation during which so much material information is exchanged. When 476 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 2: events can be put into perspective and nuances of emotional 477 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 2: valence attached to them, then re examined and corrected in 478 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 2: the light of further discussion, any schema we construct will 479 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 2: be merely a broad outline, a framework upon which to 480 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 2: rest the case. Gizwalda was working during the period when 481 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 2: Mannerism dominated the music scene of Italy. In its time, 482 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 2: mannerism was kind of a counter to the Renaissance romance 483 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 2: and humanism that came before it. Whereas humanism had emphasized 484 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 2: emotion and feeling, mannerism emphasized technique. And that's a very 485 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 2: broad strokes way to talk about it. Obviously, as art 486 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,600 Speaker 2: there is an emotional component, and there actually are a 487 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 2: lot of debates about how the term mannerism should actually 488 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,720 Speaker 2: be used specifically in the music world. But it does 489 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:58,240 Speaker 2: give some context to the descriptions of Goswaldo's music as 490 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 2: being difficult to perform. That it's not about him being 491 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 2: a madman or a psychopath or anything to do with 492 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 2: his mental and emotional health. He was as a composer 493 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 2: deliberately trying to create complex and difficult things. There have 494 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 2: been musicians and artists in recent centuries who have become 495 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:23,240 Speaker 2: almost obsessed with Gisualdo. Writer Aldous Huxley was transfixed by him. 496 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 2: Igor Stravinsky often cited Giswaldo as an important influence and 497 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 2: called him quote one of the most personal creators ever 498 00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 2: born to my art. Stravinsky hands copied several of Joswaldo's 499 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 2: madicals and also wrote a piece named for him, Monumentum 500 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:45,120 Speaker 2: pro gus Waldo. Werner Herzog too became captivated by Gezuwaldo's 501 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 2: story and music, and in nineteen ninety five made a 502 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 2: TV movie that's part documentary, part speculative ghost story about 503 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 2: Gisualdo and Maria called Zezualdo Death for Five Voices. One 504 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 2: of the character who hers sort of interviews is the 505 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 2: ghost of Maria, played by an opera singer with vibrant 506 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 2: red hair in a full length dress with a revealing 507 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 2: low cut bodice. Yeah, there's some I only got to 508 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 2: see the trailer for that because it is not readily 509 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:20,600 Speaker 2: available nowadays. But there are some kind of interesting approaches 510 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:24,400 Speaker 2: he takes, like giving a baker the list of things 511 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 2: that were prepared for their wedding just to get his 512 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,760 Speaker 2: opinion on it. It seems very interesting. I hope I 513 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 2: can get a cut of it at some point. Generally, 514 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 2: in the twentieth century, Giosueldo has taken on the image 515 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 2: of a scary but romanticized mad genius, but historians note 516 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,960 Speaker 2: that this take also tends to ignore a lot of 517 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,960 Speaker 2: other composers who were working in Italy in the sixteenth 518 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 2: and early seventeenth centuries who were contributing their own efforts 519 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 2: at upending the previous musical trends. All of that, though, 520 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,760 Speaker 2: tends to become eclipsed by the murder and all of 521 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 2: the wild details of Waldo's life, both true and embellished. 522 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 2: Carlos Jeswaldo. 523 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 1: Uh huh, He's fascinating and also like you can't see me, 524 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 1: but I'm making a face that's like, sir, I have 525 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,240 Speaker 1: fun listener mail, since this is a little bit of 526 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:23,640 Speaker 1: a dark episode. Oh great, This is from our listener Tamra, 527 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:28,200 Speaker 1: whose subject line instantly grabbed me, which was I was 528 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 1: a Levi Strauss Jean Flipper. 529 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 2: Oh I saw this email. I was so excited about it. 530 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 2: It's so good. Tama Wrights, Hi, Holly and Tracy. I 531 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 2: was just listening to your behind the scenes and you 532 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 2: mentioned how Levi Strauss keeps popping up in your episodes 533 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 2: and that a pair of five Oho ones had been 534 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 2: auctioned off for over five hundred thousand dollars. I don't 535 00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 2: know about Atlanta, but in Portland, Oregon, in the mid nineties, 536 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 2: there were little travel campers off to the side of 537 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 2: main city streets with big signs on the side that 538 00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 2: read we buy used Levi's I was sent out with 539 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,280 Speaker 2: a small bag of change and a key to my trailer, 540 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 2: and I would wait for people to show up with 541 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 2: their levis. I'd examine them for condition and lowball them 542 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,640 Speaker 2: as much as possible. I was the high man on 543 00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:14,399 Speaker 2: the auction process totem Pole. Clearly I listened to your 544 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 2: podcast on totem Poles. It was a pretty weird and 545 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 2: boring job, but it paid well. I sure wish smartphones 546 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,520 Speaker 2: and podcasts are around then. I love your podcast so much. 547 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:25,359 Speaker 2: I love how much I've learned from you, and we'll 548 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 2: continue to learn. You to do the Lord's work, and 549 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,200 Speaker 2: I'm so grateful for all your hard work. Episodes on 550 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 2: science and especially astronomy are my favorite. Me too. 551 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 1: Attached our photos of my babies, Dino, the gray one 552 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:40,840 Speaker 1: with the magnificent tail, and my little girl Mimosa because 553 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,200 Speaker 1: of her big yellow eyes the color of my favorite 554 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:47,080 Speaker 1: brunch beverage. These cats are so beautiful, and Mimosa is gorgeous, 555 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,239 Speaker 1: and I always love a black cat. So thank you, 556 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:50,840 Speaker 1: thank you, thank you for that email, Tamera. 557 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:53,759 Speaker 2: If people are gonna go look for an episode we 558 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,000 Speaker 2: did about totem poles, I don't think that was us. 559 00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 1: I don't think so either. It definitely wasn't you and me? 560 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,400 Speaker 1: And I don't remember remember seeing it ever in the 561 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,920 Speaker 1: back catalog. Yeah, so it might have been another another 562 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 1: stuff show, right, Yeah. 563 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,239 Speaker 2: I can imagine people saying I went and looked for 564 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 2: that and I couldn't find it. I'm pretty sure it's 565 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:12,640 Speaker 2: not us. 566 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think so. 567 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:16,239 Speaker 2: This happens to me all the time. Honestly. There will 568 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 2: be a thing that I'm like, I vividly remember coming 569 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:21,799 Speaker 2: from one podcast I listen to, and it will turn 570 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 2: out to have been from a different podcast entirely, or 571 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,319 Speaker 2: maybe even not even a podcast. Maybe it was on 572 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:29,520 Speaker 2: NPR while I was in the car. 573 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:33,520 Speaker 1: I don't know. It happens all the time. If you 574 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:35,360 Speaker 1: would like to write to us and share pictures of 575 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,800 Speaker 1: your babies and tell us stories of your jobs, buying 576 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,280 Speaker 1: used Levi's or otherwise, you can do that at History 577 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:46,440 Speaker 1: Podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. You can also subscribe to 578 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,360 Speaker 1: the show, and it's super duper easy. You can do 579 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:50,880 Speaker 1: that in the iHeartRadio app or anywhere you're listening to 580 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,360 Speaker 1: your favorite shows. 581 00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,319 Speaker 2: Stuff you Missed in History Class is a production of 582 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 2: iHeart Radio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio, app, 583 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,400 Speaker 2: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.