1
00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:04,440
Speaker 1: Welcome one and all to the Professional Homegirl Podcast. Before

2
00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:06,680
Speaker 1: we begin today's episode, we want to remind you that

3
00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:09,399
Speaker 1: the views and opinions expressed on this podcast are those

4
00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:12,200
Speaker 1: of the hosts and guests and are intended for educational

5
00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,960
Speaker 1: and entertaining purposes. In this safe space, no question is

6
00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:19,280
Speaker 1: off limits because you never know how someone's storyline can

7
00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:22,560
Speaker 1: be your lifeline. The Professional Homegirl Podcast is here to

8
00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:26,240
Speaker 1: celebrate the diverse voices, stories and experiences of women of color,

9
00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:30,200
Speaker 1: providing a platform for authentic and empowering conversations. There will

10
00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,600
Speaker 1: be some key king, some tears, but most importantly a

11
00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:37,919
Speaker 1: reminder that tough times don't last, but professional Homegirls do

12
00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:39,320
Speaker 1: enjoy the show.

13
00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:44,760
Speaker 2: This episode contains sensitive topics. Listener discretion is a viz

14
00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:58,880
Speaker 2: wus up Professional Homegirls. Ishagar Ebina here and I am

15
00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:02,640
Speaker 2: super excited to kill off our very first men series

16
00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:07,040
Speaker 2: on the Professional Homegirl Podcast. But before we dive in,

17
00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:09,080
Speaker 2: we got to give a huge shout out to the

18
00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:13,120
Speaker 2: Man of the House, Taylor for our amazing new intro.

19
00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:16,440
Speaker 2: A lot of y'all hit me up asking is.

20
00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:19,640
Speaker 3: That Taylor, and after I said yeah, y'all follow up

21
00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:24,360
Speaker 3: with some spicy comments However, it is safe to say

22
00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:27,319
Speaker 3: y'all love the new intro, So thank you so much, Taylor.

23
00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:30,640
Speaker 2: Make sure y'all subscribe to the YouTube channel and TikTok

24
00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:35,000
Speaker 2: at the Professional Homegirl and on Instagram at the PG podcast,

25
00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:37,920
Speaker 2: and y'all keep sending me y'all letters at Hello at

26
00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:43,600
Speaker 2: thepgpodcast dot com. Now, I'm really excited about this week's

27
00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:46,760
Speaker 2: episode because y'all know I love the Lord Child, and

28
00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:50,240
Speaker 2: my guest, who is a pastor, took us the Bible study. Okay,

29
00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:54,880
Speaker 2: and this powerful and heartfelt episode, my guest opens up

30
00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:59,960
Speaker 2: about his deeply personal journey of navigating marriage and enduring abuse.

31
00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:04,120
Speaker 2: With fifteen years of marriage or experience, our guest shares

32
00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:07,800
Speaker 2: the trials and triumphs that have shaped his path, offering

33
00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:12,000
Speaker 2: a raw and inspiring narrative of faith and resilience. We

34
00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:16,560
Speaker 2: discussed domestic abuse in the faith community, spiritual warfare, and

35
00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:19,280
Speaker 2: why the leaders in the church should use more logic

36
00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:22,120
Speaker 2: when it comes to divorce. Get ready for the first

37
00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:25,640
Speaker 2: episode of our men series. My wife physically abused me

38
00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:29,840
Speaker 2: starts now. So to my guests, thank you so much

39
00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:32,480
Speaker 2: for being on the show. How are you doing, pastor,

40
00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:33,520
Speaker 2: how are you feeling.

41
00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,280
Speaker 4: I'm doing well, spent a great day, and thank you

42
00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:41,400
Speaker 4: for having me count the privilege to come on your podcast.

43
00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:45,000
Speaker 2: Yes, listen, y'all. Y'all know how every time we record,

44
00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:50,200
Speaker 2: especially when it comes to religion or spirituality, somebody always

45
00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:52,600
Speaker 2: trying to interfere. But the pastor was so patient with

46
00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:54,880
Speaker 2: me and we got the issue resolved. So thank you

47
00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:59,080
Speaker 2: once again for your patience. You're very Now, why do

48
00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:02,200
Speaker 2: you think that there is a general disbelief when men

49
00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:05,080
Speaker 2: report being victims of domestic abuse?

50
00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:10,240
Speaker 4: I think there are several reasons for that. Number one,

51
00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:17,600
Speaker 4: most people do not think a man can be abused

52
00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:22,920
Speaker 4: because typically a man can defend himself, right, you know,

53
00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:27,000
Speaker 4: so it's a lot of times it's not a matter

54
00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:31,880
Speaker 4: of fear. And also I think there's the simply a

55
00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:37,720
Speaker 4: stereotype that only men abuse, uh, and that women are

56
00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:43,320
Speaker 4: not abuses in terms especially physically. I think people may

57
00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:46,720
Speaker 4: believe that women abuse emostly, but I don't think they

58
00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:50,640
Speaker 4: think that women can be abusive and in a physical way.

59
00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:53,760
Speaker 4: So I think somebody that has to do with the

60
00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:55,600
Speaker 4: way society views men and women.

61
00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:00,240
Speaker 2: Do you think that the media portrayals of masculinity and

62
00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:06,400
Speaker 2: victimhood have influenced public perceptions of male domestic abuse survivors.

63
00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:10,280
Speaker 4: You know, that's a good question. I'm not certain if

64
00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:13,200
Speaker 4: the media plays a role in that. I think we

65
00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:19,799
Speaker 4: think the way we think because physical abuse by women

66
00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:24,760
Speaker 4: towards men is underreported and so it's not out there,

67
00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,839
Speaker 4: and so in some senses of the word, you can't

68
00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,640
Speaker 4: really blame people for coming to the conclusions that they

69
00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,440
Speaker 4: come to. So I'm not so certain certain that it's

70
00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,480
Speaker 4: media driven rather than the fact that it's just not

71
00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:40,920
Speaker 4: it's not talked about as much.

72
00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,159
Speaker 2: And I also think that our community plays a part

73
00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,440
Speaker 2: in that, because I feel like when I was talking

74
00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:48,920
Speaker 2: to my best friend who's my cousin, and I was

75
00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:51,040
Speaker 2: just telling him that I just wish that men felt

76
00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:53,760
Speaker 2: more comfortable with being safe and being vulnerable when it

77
00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:56,080
Speaker 2: comes to their feelings. But I also think that from

78
00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:58,800
Speaker 2: where we come from, you know, especially with black men,

79
00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:01,479
Speaker 2: you know, you're how to be strong and tall, to

80
00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:04,680
Speaker 2: be a man and protective. So I think that also

81
00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:06,240
Speaker 2: plays a role into it as well.

82
00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:10,560
Speaker 4: Oh, I would absolutely agree with that we're taught to

83
00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:15,560
Speaker 4: mad up boys don't cry, you know, when your little boy,

84
00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:19,120
Speaker 4: you don't stop crying, you know. Uh, so you're not

85
00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:23,280
Speaker 4: supposed to express your emotions and talk about your feelings.

86
00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:25,840
Speaker 4: You're supposed to mad up. So if you take that

87
00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:30,919
Speaker 4: mentality into adulthood, well it works against you, especially in

88
00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,400
Speaker 4: situations where you really need to be able to express

89
00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:34,680
Speaker 4: and talk about your feelings.

90
00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:40,240
Speaker 2: Now, how has your faith community been receiving your story,

91
00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:43,839
Speaker 2: because your story has been having you outside lately, pastor.

92
00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:51,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, you know, it's it's really it's been interesting. Uh.

93
00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:58,800
Speaker 4: I find uh that well, when I when when people

94
00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,320
Speaker 4: first started finding out a up my story a couple

95
00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:07,760
Speaker 4: of years ago, they were in shock. Mhm uh. And

96
00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:12,240
Speaker 4: and some of them still don't believe it really. Yeah,

97
00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:16,840
Speaker 4: there are some that still just have a hard time grasping, uh,

98
00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:22,960
Speaker 4: that that this was was a factual thing. You may

99
00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:25,839
Speaker 4: even notice on videos on the comments that some some

100
00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:28,320
Speaker 4: pole even accused me of lying. Yeah.

101
00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:29,960
Speaker 2: I saw that, but I was like, why would you

102
00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:30,640
Speaker 2: lie about that?

103
00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:35,040
Speaker 4: Yeah? I mean, I mean people lie, but yeah, but

104
00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:36,960
Speaker 4: why would I put myself out there like that?

105
00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:38,080
Speaker 2: Yeah.

106
00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:44,480
Speaker 4: But in terms of in terms of the faith community especially, uh,

107
00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:49,880
Speaker 4: I find that the female population is extremely receptive of

108
00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:57,120
Speaker 4: of what's going on because they they they find that

109
00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:02,000
Speaker 4: they have they can talk to someone who is a male,

110
00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:09,120
Speaker 4: but who also understands the psychological effects that abuse can have. UH.

111
00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:14,480
Speaker 4: And so I found that to be very helpful, UH

112
00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:17,560
Speaker 4: some of my advocacy and counselor.

113
00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:22,880
Speaker 2: H Now, from your perspective, how widespread is domestic balance

114
00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:24,080
Speaker 2: within the faith community.

115
00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:32,400
Speaker 4: Well, I'll tell you what. I did not even think

116
00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:38,600
Speaker 4: there was an issue in the faith community for years

117
00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,120
Speaker 4: and see, while I was going through my own abuse,

118
00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:48,560
Speaker 4: I never used the term abuse. I never even considered

119
00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:52,080
Speaker 4: the fact that I was being abused. It was kind

120
00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:57,440
Speaker 4: of strange, but I never thought I was being abused.

121
00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,080
Speaker 4: I thought this was just a battle that I was in,

122
00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:07,360
Speaker 4: and I was going to win the battle. I was

123
00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:10,280
Speaker 4: not going to allow a quote unquote the devil to

124
00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:14,000
Speaker 4: destroy my home. I'm a warrior and we're going the

125
00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:18,240
Speaker 4: wor It never dawned on me that I was being abused.

126
00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:28,640
Speaker 4: So it wasn't until the first incident happened and I

127
00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:31,760
Speaker 4: went to my church elders I was young in the faith,

128
00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,520
Speaker 4: and told them, you know that she cut me across

129
00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:41,040
Speaker 4: my wrist several times with a butcher knife, and I

130
00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:43,640
Speaker 4: was told, well, the devil was trying to destroy your home.

131
00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:49,920
Speaker 4: So you need to manner, you know, fight the good fight,

132
00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:56,360
Speaker 4: keep the faith. And by the way, abuse is not

133
00:08:57,679 --> 00:08:59,760
Speaker 4: a biblical reason for divorce.

134
00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:02,880
Speaker 2: Now passed that. You know that sound crazy, right, because

135
00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:04,319
Speaker 2: she could have cut of artery.

136
00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:08,760
Speaker 4: Right, prayse the Lord. She did not, right, you see.

137
00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:15,480
Speaker 4: And this is the thing when when it happened, all

138
00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:17,640
Speaker 4: I can say is I guess I look back now.

139
00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:24,120
Speaker 4: I was in shock because the possibility of that happening

140
00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:31,760
Speaker 4: was so far fetched, was so absolutely nowhere in my

141
00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:33,880
Speaker 4: wildest dreams what I ever thought that she would do

142
00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:38,160
Speaker 4: something like that, right, So I was in shock. And

143
00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:41,240
Speaker 4: it wasn't until the third cut, but that I kind

144
00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:43,720
Speaker 4: of okay, blood is flowing. I need to get some help.

145
00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:47,160
Speaker 4: Reality set in. But even when I went and talked

146
00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:51,160
Speaker 4: with the elders at the church and they told me

147
00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:53,560
Speaker 4: that I needed to man up, and see, I was

148
00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:57,880
Speaker 4: really young in the faith, and I accepted what they

149
00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,480
Speaker 4: taught me, and what they told me they knew better

150
00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:04,040
Speaker 4: than I did. So I'm going to man up. And

151
00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:10,440
Speaker 4: and so you end up taking on this responsibility of

152
00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:18,600
Speaker 4: quote unquote saving your spouse, you know, listen, So realizing, okay,

153
00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:22,199
Speaker 4: it's my responsibility to fight the devil and make sure

154
00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:24,760
Speaker 4: that my home is not destroyed.

155
00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:25,360
Speaker 2: Yeah.

156
00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:29,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, So that was the first time, my first encounter

157
00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,920
Speaker 4: with the phrase community in terms of that. Now, I

158
00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:37,240
Speaker 4: was living in Chicago with that particular time, I moved

159
00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:40,400
Speaker 4: to Florida in nineteen eighty seven.

160
00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:42,240
Speaker 2: Well, wait, slam passed the saloon because I want to

161
00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:45,079
Speaker 2: ask you a question. You made a good point about

162
00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:47,760
Speaker 2: when you went to the elders and they felt they

163
00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:49,840
Speaker 2: said that the devil was trying to fight you. And

164
00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:51,520
Speaker 2: I feel like a lot of times where people are

165
00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:54,760
Speaker 2: going through the things, they perceive it as not just

166
00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:57,560
Speaker 2: a physical or emotional issue, but also a form of

167
00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:01,959
Speaker 2: spiritual warfare. So can you explain this perspective and how

168
00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,960
Speaker 2: it influences the way influence how it influenced the way

169
00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:08,640
Speaker 2: individuals and communities address domestic abuse because I feel like

170
00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:12,280
Speaker 2: a lot of times, especially those who are in religious environments,

171
00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:14,560
Speaker 2: I feel like a lot of times logic is not

172
00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:15,120
Speaker 2: being youth.

173
00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:19,000
Speaker 4: I would agree with you. I would agree with you,

174
00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:22,360
Speaker 4: and I think one thing I've learned is this, just

175
00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:25,840
Speaker 4: because you're a person of faith does not mean you

176
00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:27,280
Speaker 4: check your brains at the.

177
00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:29,680
Speaker 2: Door, right talk about it pastor.

178
00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:33,680
Speaker 4: You still have to think through what say you believe

179
00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:39,360
Speaker 4: and following through to its most logical conclusion. And so.

180
00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:43,480
Speaker 4: But so when you're knew and you're learning, you kind

181
00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:47,440
Speaker 4: of accept what's being talked to you, uh because quote

182
00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:51,120
Speaker 4: unquote they've been in this business longer than I have, right,

183
00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:54,280
Speaker 4: so and so, And then I think, I think, I

184
00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:58,360
Speaker 4: think and I'm certainly not dismissing the warfare part of it,

185
00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:04,679
Speaker 4: right us clearly uh that there were some demonic forces involved.

186
00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:09,360
Speaker 4: There is no doubt in mind about that. However, we

187
00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:13,120
Speaker 4: we we mustn't spiritualized it to a point where we

188
00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:16,400
Speaker 4: don't deal with the human reality of what's going on.

189
00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:21,280
Speaker 4: And it is abuse, that's what it was. So I

190
00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:25,160
Speaker 4: think that I think it's it's it's a real issue

191
00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:33,080
Speaker 4: in terms of separating the demonic from just a person's

192
00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:36,920
Speaker 4: flesh and and their and their behavior. And and see

193
00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:41,400
Speaker 4: I found out later that she grew up in a home.

194
00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:44,679
Speaker 4: Mm hmm. I didn't know this one when I married her.

195
00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:47,559
Speaker 4: Her mother abused her father.

196
00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:51,240
Speaker 2: Wow, So what is that?

197
00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:52,640
Speaker 4: It's a learning.

198
00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:56,240
Speaker 2: Behavior as generational curse, right, it's.

199
00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,280
Speaker 4: A learn yeah behavior, But I didn't get any man

200
00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:01,480
Speaker 4: to counsel bese im like I didn't need it. I

201
00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:02,360
Speaker 4: was running from God.

202
00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:07,240
Speaker 2: So, right, why were you running from God? Because I

203
00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:09,439
Speaker 2: know that in the beginning, especially in the beginning of

204
00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:12,360
Speaker 2: your marriage or leading up to your marriage, you weren't

205
00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:13,520
Speaker 2: really trying to be a Christian.

206
00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:16,600
Speaker 4: No, I was not a Christian. I was. I was,

207
00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:19,720
Speaker 4: I was. I was out there doing my things.

208
00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:21,200
Speaker 2: I feel like you was outside past.

209
00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:27,600
Speaker 4: I grew up in the church, right, did all of that.

210
00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:34,000
Speaker 4: But when I turned eighteen, I remember telling my mother

211
00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:37,320
Speaker 4: I'm done with church. And I mean I was eighteen,

212
00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:40,280
Speaker 4: you know, so I could make that decision, right, I

213
00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:44,120
Speaker 4: walked away from the church. I'm a Christian. I've been

214
00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:45,680
Speaker 4: in treurch of all my life, but I never really

215
00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:50,280
Speaker 4: embraced the faith in a real tangible way, right, And

216
00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:53,640
Speaker 4: so when I decided to get married, my oldest brother

217
00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:59,040
Speaker 4: became a Christian, and so it was always after me

218
00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,000
Speaker 4: and I decided, Man, I don't need I told him,

219
00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:07,240
Speaker 4: And I told my mother, I don't need Jesus. I'm

220
00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:11,240
Speaker 4: gonna get married. And my mother told me, oh, if

221
00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:15,240
Speaker 4: I know Mama was a prophet, she told me, she said,

222
00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:19,360
Speaker 4: that's a nice lady, You're going to marry. But then

223
00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:21,760
Speaker 4: she said this, when you become a Christian, said Marsta,

224
00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:25,120
Speaker 4: How many times do I have to tell you I'm

225
00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:28,040
Speaker 4: not going to become a Christian? She said, boy, anyway,

226
00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:33,680
Speaker 4: when you become a Christian, that girl is going to

227
00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,480
Speaker 4: go back to her childhood religion. Was it Jehovah Witness

228
00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,840
Speaker 4: And you're going to be in hell. That's what she

229
00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:41,160
Speaker 4: told me.

230
00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:43,400
Speaker 2: What do you think your mom saw that you didn't

231
00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:44,960
Speaker 2: see back then, because she was spot on.

232
00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:49,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, I have no idea what she saw. I just

233
00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:52,680
Speaker 4: get I just believed that God gave her divine insight.

234
00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:59,880
Speaker 4: You know, mothers have an intuition sometimes they can see.

235
00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:05,320
Speaker 4: And it's interesting because my present wife, okay, well I'm

236
00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:12,600
Speaker 4: married in two thousand and two, is the only woman

237
00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:17,800
Speaker 4: that I ever bought home girlfriends included that my mother

238
00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:22,640
Speaker 4: ever approved of. Oh wow, yeah, Scott. Kind of an

239
00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:26,720
Speaker 4: amazing story. So I tell you young folk today, listen

240
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:27,320
Speaker 4: to your mother.

241
00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:34,280
Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, Pastor, I understand that abuse can be found everywhere,

242
00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:36,600
Speaker 2: but do you know if this is common within the

243
00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:39,800
Speaker 2: Jehovah Witness community. And the reason why I asked is

244
00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,320
Speaker 2: because I know your ex wife and your mother in

245
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,320
Speaker 2: law who were both Jehovah Witnesses, were very abusive.

246
00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:51,000
Speaker 4: Well see again, what's interesting is that now her mother

247
00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:52,400
Speaker 4: was not a Jehovah's witness.

248
00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:54,840
Speaker 2: Oh okay, okay, I thought her mom was a Jehovah Witness.

249
00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,440
Speaker 4: Okay, it was now Jehovah's. Her mother was nothing. Her

250
00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:59,920
Speaker 4: father was an elder in the Kingdom.

251
00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:02,239
Speaker 2: Hall okay, so he was a Jehovah Witness.

252
00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,280
Speaker 4: But what I will say about Johoa Witness is which

253
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:10,840
Speaker 4: people may or may not know, is that they have

254
00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:18,720
Speaker 4: war of their members and psychiatric wards with me and

255
00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:21,680
Speaker 4: with mental health issues more than any other religious group

256
00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:22,240
Speaker 4: on the planet.

257
00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:24,760
Speaker 2: Oh, I didn't know that yet.

258
00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:28,600
Speaker 4: A lot of this because of the intense pressure that

259
00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:32,760
Speaker 4: they put on their members, yeah uh. And the all

260
00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:36,760
Speaker 4: of the rules and regulations that that that that, you know,

261
00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:42,800
Speaker 4: the abnormal stuff like no celebrating birthdays no. Yeah. So,

262
00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:46,040
Speaker 4: so you're raising a child who's who's trying to find

263
00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:49,200
Speaker 4: their way or you know, just just regular stuff through

264
00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:51,480
Speaker 4: puberty and things, and then they go to school, they

265
00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:54,120
Speaker 4: can't participate in parties and birthdays and things like that,

266
00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:59,320
Speaker 4: so it messes with them mentally. Mh. So, while I

267
00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:03,760
Speaker 4: will not say that the abuse is time, I will

268
00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:08,040
Speaker 4: say that the mental health issues is common amongst Johovah witnesses.

269
00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:10,520
Speaker 2: You know, it's a funny pastor. So I'm a Christian,

270
00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:12,080
Speaker 2: but I used to go to the Kingdom Hall with

271
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,240
Speaker 2: my friends when I was growing up, and I was like,

272
00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,399
Speaker 2: oh no, I thought Baptist was a shrink. I was

273
00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:20,639
Speaker 2: like Kingdom Hall Jehovah witnesses. I said, oh no, I

274
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,399
Speaker 2: can't be doing this as a kid. It was so stressful.

275
00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:26,240
Speaker 2: But you cannot do anything in the Kingdom Hall.

276
00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:33,040
Speaker 4: Nothing. It's it's it's you know, Holidays for the worst

277
00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:34,560
Speaker 4: time in my marriage.

278
00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:37,200
Speaker 2: I can imagine the first time.

279
00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:43,240
Speaker 4: I would I would see I'm mister Christmas. Yeah. I

280
00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:45,760
Speaker 4: dressed up this saga every year for the kids that

281
00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:51,320
Speaker 4: Christmas was hong so I gave up. I would buy

282
00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:55,720
Speaker 4: Christmas gifts and she would not take them.

283
00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:56,640
Speaker 2: Wow.

284
00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:02,240
Speaker 4: I ended up taking them back to the store for years.

285
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,200
Speaker 4: She wouldn't. My daughter wouldn't take the Christmas gifts because

286
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:07,840
Speaker 4: Mama would say no. She didn't want to Mama get married.

287
00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:13,720
Speaker 4: So I just started coming home to Chicago every Christmas

288
00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:19,080
Speaker 4: rather than Adam. You know, right, Holays are the worst

289
00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:23,960
Speaker 4: we never celebrated birthdays, no Easter, no Mother's Day, no

290
00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,159
Speaker 4: Father's Day, none of that.

291
00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:42,640
Speaker 2: This episode contains sensitive topics. Listener discretion is advice. Did

292
00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,159
Speaker 2: this first marriage made you doubt your religion or just

293
00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:45,960
Speaker 2: doubt your faith?

294
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:53,119
Speaker 4: No? Actually, I look back on it now, and I

295
00:18:53,280 --> 00:19:01,240
Speaker 4: realized that part of it was she h if. Part

296
00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:03,960
Speaker 4: of it is the way we're taught. And this is

297
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:10,479
Speaker 4: what I mean. When you become a Christian, it says

298
00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:14,120
Speaker 4: all of your sins have been forgiven, but a part

299
00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:18,639
Speaker 4: of us doesn't truly believe that.

300
00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:19,240
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.

301
00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:23,960
Speaker 4: Because a part of my thinking was, well, this is

302
00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:28,080
Speaker 4: when cross to bear because of some of the things

303
00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:31,640
Speaker 4: I did when I was when I was not a Christian,

304
00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:38,600
Speaker 4: you see. And so she would play on that, you're

305
00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:44,320
Speaker 4: not perfect, you mess, you make mistakes, you have to

306
00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:48,679
Speaker 4: forgive me, and so so you create this false what

307
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:53,600
Speaker 4: I call false guilt. Okay, and so you so you

308
00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:57,560
Speaker 4: carry this this false guilt with you. She's right, I'm

309
00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:01,679
Speaker 4: not perfect. I'm just a sinner saved by So so

310
00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:08,479
Speaker 4: you accept people treating you a certain way because of

311
00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:12,520
Speaker 4: your own imperfections, and God never intended for you to

312
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:12,960
Speaker 4: think that.

313
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:18,080
Speaker 2: Way, right, Yeah, that's a word. So when was the

314
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:20,000
Speaker 2: first time you witnessed domestic abuse?

315
00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:23,960
Speaker 4: You know what's interesting. When I was a little boy,

316
00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:30,120
Speaker 4: we were at the dinner table with my with my stepfather,

317
00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:37,040
Speaker 4: my mother, his his, my uncle, his brother, and my

318
00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:40,320
Speaker 4: uncle's girlfriend. And that was me, my three brothers and

319
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,440
Speaker 4: my sister and we're all my four brothers were all

320
00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:49,000
Speaker 4: at the table. And she passed him to ketchup bottle.

321
00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:52,280
Speaker 4: The top was little. She spilled ketchup on his tie. Mhm.

322
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,040
Speaker 4: And he hauled off and here her in the mouth

323
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,200
Speaker 4: at the dinner table. Just what it was so hard

324
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:00,879
Speaker 4: she shed, she was bleeding.

325
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:02,960
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

326
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:08,800
Speaker 4: He took her in the bathroom. My father put my

327
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:14,359
Speaker 4: uncle alcoh house and he sat, I'll never forget it.

328
00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,040
Speaker 4: He said, all of us down in a row, four brothers,

329
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:20,399
Speaker 4: and my sister was the last one. And he stopped

330
00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:22,120
Speaker 4: and looked at each one of the face and he said,

331
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:25,960
Speaker 4: don't you ever put your hands on the girl. Don't

332
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,080
Speaker 4: you ever put your hands on the girl. And he'd

333
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:31,159
Speaker 4: hold my sister, don't you ever let a man hit you.

334
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:42,400
Speaker 4: And so that was my first instance of abuse. Now, however,

335
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:50,640
Speaker 4: my stepfather, he never abused my mother. But he abused us, so,

336
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:58,840
Speaker 4: I mean he would he would beat us. He would

337
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:07,160
Speaker 4: beat us back wow something but he considered wrong. We would.

338
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:15,679
Speaker 4: He would have us take off shirt, bare back, spread

339
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:19,280
Speaker 4: eagle across the bed while he beat us with a

340
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:20,240
Speaker 4: belt and a strap.

341
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:22,320
Speaker 2: Did your mom ever trying to stop it?

342
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:27,760
Speaker 4: He never did it in front of my mother. Yeah.

343
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:32,240
Speaker 4: I look back now, and I see he was very strategic. Okay,

344
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,440
Speaker 4: he was very strategic. He never beat us in front

345
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:39,680
Speaker 4: of my mother. Yeah, and he beat all of us

346
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:45,960
Speaker 4: like that, except for my sister and maybe my baby brother.

347
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:53,159
Speaker 4: But I look, I look back on that now and

348
00:22:54,200 --> 00:23:03,480
Speaker 4: I think, but subconsciously I was being conditioned for abuse

349
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 4: mm hm. Which is which is when I look back now,

350
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 4: I realized probably one of the reasons why I didn't

351
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:13,600
Speaker 4: freak out when when my wife started abusing me, because

352
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:19,400
Speaker 4: I had been conditioned, uh for abuse. I'm working on

353
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 4: a I'm actually working on two books, two more books,

354
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:30,160
Speaker 4: and I believe there is a connection to domestic violence

355
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 4: in the African American community. That was that that is

356
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,639
Speaker 4: directly and directly traced back to slavery.

357
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, you know for sure, Where do you get

358
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 5: this idea of telling your son to take off his

359
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 5: shirt and you whip him on his back.

360
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 4: That's what the slave master used to do.

361
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 2: Did you ever talk to did you ever talk to

362
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:53,920
Speaker 2: your step father?

363
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 4: Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no no. He actually

364
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:02,960
Speaker 4: ended up and away when I was a sophomore in

365
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 4: high school. Oh wow, it is interesting. My oldest brother,

366
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 4: he was he was beating my brother with a broomstick

367
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:13,719
Speaker 4: with a half of broomstick one day, and my oldest

368
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 4: brother jumped in and stopped him, and they fought a

369
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:22,919
Speaker 4: little bit. But I honestly believed to this day that

370
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 4: had he lived, we all would eventually come to blows

371
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:32,160
Speaker 4: with him. Yeah. So at some point in time when

372
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 4: you start getting thirteen or fourteen, now you affected what

373
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 4: you messing with my manhood? Right, we probably would have

374
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:42,359
Speaker 4: come to blows. But a lot of men in that

375
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 4: generation beat their children like that. Yeah.

376
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 2: I feel like back in the day that was very common.

377
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 2: It was just violent abuse period across the board.

378
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 4: It was I agree with. So so that's when I

379
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 4: was exposed. And it's interesting later in my teen years,

380
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,640
Speaker 4: my uncle, the one who hit his girlfriend right at

381
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 4: the end of the table when I was a little boy,

382
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 4: lash forward I'm probably around thirteen now, twelve or thirteen,

383
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:22,680
Speaker 4: and he ended up murdering his girlfriend. What, Yeah, he

384
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 4: ended up and he and he murdered his girlfriend. Well,

385
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 4: I say murdered that he got the courts courts found

386
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:34,679
Speaker 4: in medicine. But I think he murder her because she

387
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 4: broke up with him, and he was stalking up and

388
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,159
Speaker 4: she was dating somebody else, and he had power and

389
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 4: control issues. M now my oldest stepbrother, my stepfather's first

390
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 4: son from another another marriage. He was abusive and he

391
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:01,200
Speaker 4: was beating his wife one day in the kitchen and

392
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 4: she killed him in self defense. Wow. So you know,

393
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 4: it's interesting when you when you get older, you can

394
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 4: look back now, yes, how certain things were contributing factors

395
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 4: to the way you think about things.

396
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 2: Pastor I'm just curious, what are your thoughts of everything

397
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 2: that's going on with like domestic violence and like you know,

398
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 2: people being exposed of certain things or just domexic domestic

399
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 2: violence spiking with it during the pandemic, Like how do

400
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 2: you feel about that? Because I feel like back in

401
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 2: the day, like it was so common for a man

402
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 2: to hit a woman across the face and keep it moving.

403
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 4: It was I actually had friends growing up that would

404
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 4: get their girl friends and keep it moving. Yeah. Yeah,

405
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 4: it was very common. You know, it's interesting because the

406
00:26:52,440 --> 00:27:01,479
Speaker 4: pandemic exacerbated domestic violence. Yeah, because before the pandemic, at

407
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 4: least a woman could leave home, maybe go work, get

408
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:10,399
Speaker 4: a break. Yeah, but during the pandemic, now you're locked

409
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 4: in close quarters. And I am a domestic violence advocate.

410
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 4: I've been going counseling for over twenty years. I spent

411
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:26,919
Speaker 4: more time and the shelter during the pandemic than I

412
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 4: had and a ten years previous.

413
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 2: I can only imagine what you saw.

414
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, because people were and the thing is that the

415
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:40,959
Speaker 4: shelters never had enough space. They were always you know,

416
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:45,400
Speaker 4: it had to turn people away. Yeah, there were no beds.

417
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 4: So the pandemic just just made made it. It tripled,

418
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 4: it tripled the domestic violence that that folk were going through.

419
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. Do you ever see a domestic violence like eventually,

420
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 2: I don't know it can go away, but like just

421
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 2: decrease it in some sense afore you.

422
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 4: Know, I I'm part of several DV organizations that that

423
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 4: that is comprised of people from all walks of life, judges, lawyers, counselors, therapists,

424
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 4: and I think that. And the thing I love about

425
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 4: that is it's a village. It's an army of people

426
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 4: and different arenas of life doing their part. And so

427
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 4: I don't think we'll ever eradicate it, but certainly I

428
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 4: think we can make it safer. We can continue to

429
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 4: advocate for for changes in certain laws in certain cities

430
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 4: and certain states. We can we can advocate for for

431
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:51,719
Speaker 4: more house short term housing solutions.

432
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 2: The more resources you have.

433
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 4: More resources and those kinds of things. But my my,

434
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 4: my biggest passion is is dealing with it in the

435
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 4: faith community. Yeah, that's my biggest passion. And it makes

436
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 4: sense to me that it should be that prevalent in

437
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 4: the faith community, but it is. And I found it

438
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 4: out the hard way. I was doing a Bible study

439
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 4: one night, and this is I'm at Florida. Now I'm

440
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 4: associated pastor of the largest at that particular time, the

441
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 4: largest African American Baptist church in Tampa, Florida, about one

442
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 4: hundred and fifty people. In a tender lady raises her hands.

443
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 4: She says, what does God have to say about abuse

444
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 4: and re marriage and so forth? Now I'm out, I'm

445
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 4: set free at this particular time. I've studied scripture for myself.

446
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 4: I know that is wrong. And so I walked her

447
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 4: through and at the end of the thing, I said,

448
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 4: God wants you free. You don't want you to stay.

449
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 4: The next day, eighteen women and that Bible study called

450
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 4: me the next day. Wow. All eighteen of them were

451
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 4: members of that church and were being abused in some

452
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 4: shape form of fashion.

453
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 2: Wow, that's heartbreaking.

454
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 4: Fourteen of them were being abused by the very men

455
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 4: who were sitting next to them in the Bible study. Wow.

456
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,719
Speaker 6: WHOA, this is easy, right.

457
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 4: And that's when that that was the beginning of my

458
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 4: becoming an advocate for domestic for victims of the mestal violence.

459
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 4: Because you may have remembered from the video of that

460
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 4: story I told about the woman.

461
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 2: Who who got away.

462
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, And and that was my first time being

463
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 4: involved in a safety plan. I know, I didn't do

464
00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 4: anything about a safety plan, but that's what we were doing.

465
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 4: Were recreated the safety plan. She had a daughter by

466
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 4: his job with the cell phone, and you know, and

467
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 4: and and and guys moving and I'm standing on the porch,

468
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 4: you know, and I still you know, it still blows

469
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 4: in my mind that she wanted me to stand there

470
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 4: on that porch and just hold my Bible up like moment. See.

471
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 4: And I learned something then about that. That is, when

472
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 4: you're counseling victims of domestic boledge, allow them the freedom

473
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 4: to say what makes them feel safe. Yeah, as love

474
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 4: as that. I asked you to do anything crazy, you comply,

475
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 4: you you yield, because the the the issue is the

476
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 4: victim them to set the agenda for how they want

477
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 4: to proceed and move forward. But when that lady was

478
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 4: driving down the street screaming I'm free, I'm free, I'm free.

479
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 4: I never saw her again, but it did something to me.

480
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can imagine.

481
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, it changed my whole It changed my whole life,

482
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 4: Like changed my ministry, even though why my pastor my

483
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 4: my main ministry is domestic mindage. Mm yeah, I never so.

484
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 4: So I never separated the church and my preaching from

485
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 4: domestic minders. To me, that's ministry, right, No, helping people

486
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 4: to be free, giving people hope, you know. So, so

487
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 4: that's my ministry and that's what I do, right.

488
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:34,959
Speaker 2: I feel like, I mean, we know there's a lot

489
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 2: of stigma when when it comes to domestic balance, but

490
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 2: I feel like when it comes to those who are

491
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 2: in the faith community, do you feel like sometimes they

492
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 2: stay because they don't want to disappoint God, especially those

493
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 2: who are married.

494
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, absolutely. Yet you see, because that's one of

495
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 4: the reason why I stay, because I was taught God

496
00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 4: ah divorce mm hmm sixteen neon lights. That's the that's

497
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 4: the big doctrine, right. God hates divorce. You do feel

498
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 4: like if I give divorce, I'm letting God down? Right?

499
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 4: This is the ticket. The person that files the piece

500
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 4: of paper doesn't end the marriage. That's is just a

501
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 4: legal thing you have to pursue. Right destroys the covenant. M.

502
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 4: It's destroyed already by the abuse. Not the person who

503
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 4: says I'm not taking this.

504
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 2: Anything right, It's already done right unforce.

505
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,479
Speaker 4: In the faith community, we put the holdness on the

506
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 4: person who files the piece of paper, right, and so

507
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 4: then you so not only do you feel like they're

508
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 4: letting God down. There is what I call the stay

509
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 4: and pray theology. M. That's a fact, pastor, listen, and

510
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 4: that's staying pray theology is lethal. It sure it needs

511
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 4: to be replaced with leave and.

512
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 2: Pray, because stay and pray what have you stressed out well.

513
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:18,840
Speaker 4: And not only that, but when I tell you to

514
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 4: stay and pray, whether purposely or or or or you know,

515
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 4: or unintentionally, I'm saying it's your fault.

516
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a fact.

517
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:35,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, because you're not praying hard enough. You're not you're

518
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 4: not loving hard enough. It's something that whatever you're doing,

519
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:40,919
Speaker 4: you're not doing it hard enough. You're not doing well enough.

520
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:44,439
Speaker 4: So that was the onus on the victim rather than

521
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 4: the abuser. See, you're part of the problem.

522
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 2: Mm hm.

523
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:53,840
Speaker 4: And with a man, see, it's different. It's it's different

524
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,919
Speaker 4: because love your wife as Christ love the church.

525
00:34:58,440 --> 00:34:58,839
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.

526
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:05,839
Speaker 4: See. So the idea is you have to love her

527
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:10,359
Speaker 4: through her abusive you. No, it's not. It's not right

528
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:15,800
Speaker 4: because to death do his part does not mean until

529
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 4: my smiuse kills me. Facts, that's not what it means.

530
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 4: So so you've got to stand pray, theology, you've got

531
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:28,840
Speaker 4: God hast divorces, and then you have this whole idea

532
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 4: of wives submit to your husbands and everything.

533
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 2: Yeah.

534
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 4: I cringe every time I hear a preacher make that

535
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 4: statement from a full pit. Me too, pastor, that's all

536
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 4: he ever said.

537
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:53,360
Speaker 2: No, don't get no contacts, no contact, no scripture, no nothing.

538
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 4: And so the abuser, it's sitting man the audience and

539
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 4: he's tapping his wife like this. Mm hmmm do that. Yeah,

540
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 4: you see, and so and so and so so. Now

541
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:12,799
Speaker 4: she's being even more drainfuls. Yeah. So, so we need

542
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 4: to reteach submission because Ephesians five twenty one said submit

543
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 4: yourselves one to another. Mm hmm. It starts with it

544
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 4: starts from a place of equality, not a place of

545
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:29,359
Speaker 4: superiority or inferiority. Right, so that needs to be re talked.

546
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,799
Speaker 4: And then my one one one one, one of my

547
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 4: big ones forgiveness and reconciliation. HM. Every single time my

548
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:47,239
Speaker 4: way either hit me or bruce unat me, whatever case

549
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 4: may be, she would come back, I'm sorry and you

550
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 4: have to forgive me. Right. It was almost as if

551
00:36:55,520 --> 00:37:00,040
Speaker 4: the forgiveness had to be instantaneous, you see, And I

552
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 4: I no longer believe in inst forgiveness, like if I

553
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 4: step on your shoe, oh my dad, right right, you

554
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,320
Speaker 4: know I can instantand and forgive that. But there's other stuff.

555
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 2: Slicing my wrist with a butcher knife, like come on, knife.

556
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 4: Cut me out, or whatever the case may be you know,

557
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,319
Speaker 4: I mean time to absorb that pain. And then I

558
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 4: need to be able to explain to you how deeply

559
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 4: you have hurt me and wounded me. So that so

560
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 4: that if and when you ask for forgiveness, it's coming

561
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 4: from a genuine place, not just because you have to

562
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,799
Speaker 4: do it, you see. And so and this is the

563
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:38,359
Speaker 4: thing I tell people now, I teach people. Now, Yeah,

564
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 4: the Bible says we must forgive, but I understand this

565
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 4: forgiveness is a process. It's okay. And sometimes I may

566
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,319
Speaker 4: have to forgive that person fifteen times, you know, I

567
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 4: get triggered, you know, But reconciliation is my choice. Yeah,

568
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 4: says I have to forgive, but I can forgive you

569
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 4: from over here. Right.

570
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 2: The means that we have to be back cool again.

571
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 4: We don't need to see and and now believe that

572
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 4: there are three types of reconciliation. There is full reconciliation,

573
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 4: partial reconciliation, and no reconciliation. And I believe that it's

574
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 4: up to the victim to determine which one they want

575
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 4: to participate in. Yeah, So so we need to we

576
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,800
Speaker 4: teach forgiveness and reconciliation that there are two different empties

577
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 4: and then we need to talk about the sanctity of marriage, okay,

578
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 4: in a different light because we only well you know,

579
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 4: we only talk about the sanctitary of marriage, and divorce

580
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 4: is against the sanctity of marriage, right, Well, no, sometimes

581
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 4: the voice must have and because of the sanctity of marriage. Yeah,

582
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 4: and not only that, we talk about the sanctity of life.

583
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 4: In regardless of what you believe about abortion or don't believe,

584
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 4: whatever the case may be. The sanctity of life goes

585
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 4: from the wone to the tomb. Yeah, it also deals

586
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:32,359
Speaker 4: with the quality of a person's life. I'm saying that

587
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:36,280
Speaker 4: when a person's in imagine their life is in danger,

588
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:41,759
Speaker 4: the sanctity of life trumps the sanctity of marriage. That

589
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 4: person is being abused is free to go. And I

590
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:50,800
Speaker 4: think clergy ought to have some courage. It's an intestinal

591
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:54,759
Speaker 4: fortitude to look a woman in the eye and say

592
00:39:54,800 --> 00:40:00,880
Speaker 4: to her, you have my blessing. Yeah, get a divorce,

593
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 4: and we as a church will support you and and

594
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:08,319
Speaker 4: and and and surround you and help you. And we

595
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 4: will not create a stigma and make you like to

596
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:12,280
Speaker 4: be some kind of for riot.

597
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know your congregation be full, pastor because you're

598
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 2: taking a word right now.

599
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 4: You know, I'm gonna say something that may shock you.

600
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 4: But I've counseled the wives of six pastors. Mm hmmm pastors.

601
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:37,759
Speaker 4: Some are abused. Yeah, some of them are wolves and

602
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 4: sheep's gloat.

603
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,919
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well pastor. They say a lot of times

604
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 2: people become pastors because it's it's it's that's a new.

605
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 4: Hustle, unfortunately. I mean that's just the truth of the matter. Yeah,

606
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 4: I just love the faith community.

607
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the most vulnerable.

608
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:59,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, because they take advantage of forgiveness and reconciliation in

609
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,239
Speaker 4: the way things that and so forth and so forth.

610
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:03,719
Speaker 4: But now this is the story. What I tell you

611
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 4: is public knowledge. Ocasion is not confidentiality. Some of these

612
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:10,320
Speaker 4: I can't talk about because of the confidentiality issue, but

613
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 4: this one is public. You can google it. But her

614
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 4: name is Kimberlee Alexander, and I was part of an

615
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 4: organization here in Tampa called the Family Justice Center. And

616
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,759
Speaker 4: the Family Justice Center was one of the greatest organization

617
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 4: I've ever been a part of. It was a one

618
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 4: stop shop for victims of domestic violence. We had thirty

619
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 4: five agencies under one roof. A woman could walk through

620
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:42,920
Speaker 4: the front doors and depending on depending on the lethality

621
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:46,319
Speaker 4: of our situation, we could help her disappear that night.

622
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 4: I mean, it was a powerful organization. From twenty six

623
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 4: to twenty Praeve. Oh wow, over thirteen thousand people come

624
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:00,799
Speaker 4: through the doors that were victims of the violes or

625
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 4: sexual assault. Those are only the reported cases, right that part.

626
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 4: So one day I have an appointment with a lady

627
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 4: named Kimberly Alexander. She walks into my office. She has

628
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 4: on these big, dark dung glasses. She's about eighty pounds,

629
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 4: soaking wet. Oh my god, and you could just tell life.

630
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 4: It's just horrible to her. And the whole time she

631
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:39,359
Speaker 4: was there, she talked to me with her head down.

632
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 4: She never looked at me one time.

633
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:43,800
Speaker 2: M did she have ting a sunglasses sauce.

634
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 4: Never took them off. And she's telling me and they

635
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 4: had a megachurch four thousand people, and she's telling me

636
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 4: how her husband almost killed her and I'd been abusing

637
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 4: her for over twenty something years.

638
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:02,240
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

639
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 4: And we talked for about an hour and a half.

640
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 4: She left. She came back the next week sunglasses, over

641
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 4: eighty pounds, soaking wet never looked me in the eye.

642
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:28,800
Speaker 4: After the fifth week she came back, she started gaining

643
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 4: a little bit of weight. She took her glasses off

644
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 4: and she looked me in the eye. I want to

645
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 4: tell you something, she said. Five weeks ago, that first

646
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 4: meeting we had before I came here, I drove to

647
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 4: the Skyway Bridge. That's a big bridge across one of

648
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 4: the rivers here in Aflorida area. I drove there with

649
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 4: the intention of ending my life. And she said. I

650
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:08,319
Speaker 4: sat there and God kept saying, go see pastor. Mm hmm.

651
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 4: That I told God, I'm gonna go. If this man

652
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 4: doesn't say something to give me some hope, I'm coming

653
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 4: back here and I'm jumping off his bridge and I'm

654
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 4: ending my life. Now, you have somebody sit there and

655
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 4: then and then look at me and say, you say

656
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 4: my life. I mean I could help, but try with her.

657
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:39,080
Speaker 2: So where is she at now? Is she okay?

658
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 4: Oh? Yeah, she's doing she's thriving. She's in another state,

659
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 4: I believe, somewhere in Texas, still involved. And she's a

660
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:48,319
Speaker 4: she's she's a dB advocate. She's part of a group

661
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 4: called Voices. Uh, she's very very well. I'll never forget

662
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 4: the press at the press conference. This was during the

663
00:44:55,520 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 4: same time that Michael Vick was being convicted of killing dogs, right,

664
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 4: and she said, how is it? He said, I'm a

665
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 4: dog love it, he said, but how is it Michael

666
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:10,359
Speaker 4: Vick gets X amount of years in prison for killing dogs? Right?

667
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 4: My husband's six months probation.

668
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:15,360
Speaker 2: And her husband was a pastor.

669
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:20,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's my life, not my life, not worth more

670
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:20,919
Speaker 4: than a dog.

671
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:25,320
Speaker 2: H You know these people don't play about these animals. Yeah,

672
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:26,239
Speaker 2: it's insane.

673
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, and so so my point is that they're they're

674
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 4: they're there. That's said that there's an issue in the

675
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 4: faith community and there's something today that still want want

676
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 4: to want to sweep it under the rug. I want

677
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 4: to cover it up. But uh, I believe that that

678
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:53,360
Speaker 4: that God is creating a movement that's going to force

679
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:57,919
Speaker 4: the faith community to face its own issues. Oh deal

680
00:45:58,000 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 4: with his head on?

681
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:01,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so too, Especially with everything that's going on.

682
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 2: I think people go and realize there is only one guy.

683
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:06,240
Speaker 4: Amen.

684
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:21,680
Speaker 2: This episode contains sensitive topics. Listener, discretion is a vice. Now,

685
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:24,719
Speaker 2: what led to your daughter putting hands on you? Because

686
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:27,320
Speaker 2: when she heard that, I was like, oh, my God.

687
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:32,279
Speaker 4: Let me. Let me give us some context. First of all,

688
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:39,359
Speaker 4: my daughter and I have a wonderful relationship. I think

689
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:46,800
Speaker 4: I stayed. My axe would always say when she gets eighteen,

690
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 4: you're gonna leave me. And I don't say they got

691
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 4: nothing to do with it, I think now subconsciously, but

692
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 4: I had a lot to do with it as well.

693
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 4: Why did you stay? Because I loved it so much? Right,

694
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 4: I want to protect her. She had gotten pregnant at

695
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 4: sixteen mm hmm, and her it was one of amazement.

696
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 4: Her foremos over the place, and and and she and

697
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,320
Speaker 4: she was, she got, she got, she was getting angry

698
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:26,320
Speaker 4: with me, and I lost Michael. I actually slapped her first.

699
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:30,840
Speaker 4: I did her because she was in the place and

700
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:32,840
Speaker 4: she wouldn't get out, So I slapped her, and she

701
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:36,840
Speaker 4: just had a chain reaction. She reflexed, yea, let me

702
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 4: right back, and and then so so, and then she

703
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:43,160
Speaker 4: realized what she had done. I mean, she was in

704
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:45,319
Speaker 4: shocked that she did it. I think she was more

705
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:48,280
Speaker 4: shocked that she did it than I was, right, because

706
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 4: we had never we had never had a problem like that.

707
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:55,320
Speaker 4: Matter of fact, the whole time my daughter was pregnant,

708
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:03,160
Speaker 4: I personally took her to every single doctor's appointment, right,

709
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 4: matter of fact, one lady. Finally, she said, I need

710
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 4: to ask you now if if you're a boyfriend, we

711
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 4: got a problem. I said, no, I'm my father. Yeah, boyfriend,

712
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:19,360
Speaker 4: we would have a problem. But I appreciate you asking.

713
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 5: Yeah.

714
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:22,800
Speaker 4: I also took it as a compliment too, okay.

715
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 6: So so so it was that it was it was

716
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 6: that kind of moment, okay, And so I and I

717
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 6: took and so now I'm mad.

718
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:36,759
Speaker 4: I'm taking off my belt and said no, no, don't

719
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:37,399
Speaker 4: you hit that girl.

720
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:39,960
Speaker 2: How are you pregnant?

721
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:42,919
Speaker 4: Man? And she already had the baby?

722
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:46,399
Speaker 2: Okay? Well still and and and then.

723
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:50,360
Speaker 4: Her mother ran in the room said what happened? And

724
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:52,239
Speaker 4: this is the first time I ever used the words

725
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:54,320
Speaker 4: your daughter. I said, your daughter hit me?

726
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 2: Oh you was done.

727
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 4: So now she's dreaming out veryally. How dare you hit

728
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 4: your dad? And that's when it hit me. My daughter said,

729
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 4: I watched you hit him for years. M Oh my god.

730
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 4: That's when I realized that by stay, I was teaching

731
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 4: my daughter. Yep, this is what love looks like. M hm.

732
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 4: And love hurts that love hits, and love be rates,

733
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:34,240
Speaker 4: love abuses, It hit me like a ton of bricks,

734
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:38,920
Speaker 4: because you can say, you can say and talk and

735
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:42,719
Speaker 4: preach to your children all day long, but what you're

736
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:46,120
Speaker 4: talking is not matching up with what they see. They're

737
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 4: going to do what they see. You know, we were

738
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 4: all raised only know what I do, Just do it.

739
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 4: I yo.

740
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:55,320
Speaker 2: Black people are so funny to me.

741
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:59,319
Speaker 4: I only thought that was kind of goofy, right, we.

742
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:01,520
Speaker 2: All the same shared experiences.

743
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, so it was that kind of a scenario.

744
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:10,600
Speaker 4: But right, it woke me up and it helped me

745
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:15,719
Speaker 4: to understand that this is you know, and see a

746
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 4: lot of people stay because of the kids. Yeah, because

747
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 4: of the kids. But but you're doing the kids an injustice, right,

748
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:30,239
Speaker 4: because you've got sons. They are learning. Okay, well, my

749
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:32,919
Speaker 4: girlfriend say someone don't like I want to smack her. Yeah,

750
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 4: like daddy smacked mama, you know. And so we we're teaching,

751
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:40,320
Speaker 4: whether we realize it or not. So it is it

752
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:43,279
Speaker 4: is better to to to uh this thing about some

753
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 4: man is better than no man, or that that's a that's.

754
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 2: A that's a lot yeah yeah, yeah yeah yeah.

755
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 4: So so so that's kind of the context of of

756
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:55,400
Speaker 4: of that story.

757
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 2: So was that the turning point because I with your

758
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:00,920
Speaker 2: first wife, you was with her for almost fifteen years.

759
00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 2: So was that the turning point for you to leave

760
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 2: your marriage or did something else happen?

761
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:10,880
Speaker 4: The turning point was the citizens in the warm hm

762
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:16,960
Speaker 4: the turning point. We were in the kitchen discussing once

763
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:20,759
Speaker 4: again a Bible verse. A lot of a lot of

764
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 4: a lot of her violence erupted when I when I

765
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 4: disagree with the Jehovah Witness teaching, you.

766
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:29,360
Speaker 2: Gonna have people thinking that they can't marry anybody if

767
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:30,480
Speaker 2: they're not the same religion.

768
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 4: Well, listen, I'm just saying, right, you know, it is

769
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:42,440
Speaker 4: what it is, right, because the last thing you need.

770
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:47,879
Speaker 4: Marriage is hard enough. Yeah, they're taking taking to two

771
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 4: people and blending them and trying to make them one

772
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:56,719
Speaker 4: without bringing in other things that are different as well. Right.

773
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:00,359
Speaker 4: You know, my present wife and I we get along great,

774
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 4: We get along wonderful. And that's because we work from

775
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:08,840
Speaker 4: the same foundation, you know, Jesus. We both love Jesus

776
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:12,840
Speaker 4: and that's how that's how we roll, you know. So

777
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:17,279
Speaker 4: we were discussing who Jesus was, and by this time

778
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:20,960
Speaker 4: I've had enough experience to see when that and that anger,

779
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:24,560
Speaker 4: demonic seed is rising and getting ready to lash out.

780
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:29,640
Speaker 4: And this particular day she was just calling me evil

781
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 4: in this, stupid and that, and so I did the

782
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 4: Jamie Fox, you know, I did the Jamie Fox. Think

783
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:41,360
Speaker 4: I gave her a hand and I turned and I

784
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:46,440
Speaker 4: turned right, and I'm walking away. So as I'm walking,

785
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 4: the Holy Spirit says, turn around. So as I'm turning,

786
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 4: out of my peripheral vision, I see her arm going

787
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 4: back like this, and she has a pair of those

788
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:07,360
Speaker 4: steel not these plastic scissors we have to day, but

789
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 4: them still right right, and she's got them like this,

790
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:16,080
Speaker 4: and she's throwing a she's about to throw them at

791
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 4: the back of my head. So I see the scissors

792
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:23,719
Speaker 4: coming out of my peripheral My God, and I did

793
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:28,759
Speaker 4: like this, and they and stuck this deep in the

794
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:29,479
Speaker 4: kitchen wall.

795
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:32,239
Speaker 2: So she almost hits it. Could have hit you right

796
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:32,880
Speaker 2: in your face.

797
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 4: Oh I could. I should be dead. Wow, I'd have

798
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:42,000
Speaker 4: been dead. There's no doubt in my money. Right. So

799
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 4: and so, you know, matter of fact, somebody asked me, so,

800
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:47,960
Speaker 4: do you think your wife tried to kill you? I said, well,

801
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:50,719
Speaker 4: this is what I think. I don't think there was

802
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:56,880
Speaker 4: any premeditation, No, but whether you kill me on purpose

803
00:53:56,920 --> 00:54:00,680
Speaker 4: of my accident. You could kill me. Yeah, at the

804
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:05,319
Speaker 4: end of the day, does really make a distance? Yeah did? Yeah.

805
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:08,400
Speaker 2: So was there ever a time where, respectfully, that you

806
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:09,319
Speaker 2: wanted to hit back?

807
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:17,879
Speaker 4: Oh, listen, listen, I would. I would love to say

808
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:22,279
Speaker 4: I'm a fossil Paul, And really I was still in

809
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 4: every single occasion, but that would that would be a lie.

810
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:28,800
Speaker 4: You know that days man, when I when my offense

811
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:32,160
Speaker 4: would be bowled up and I was just man, but

812
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:33,880
Speaker 4: I'm gonna tell you what, what what? The only thing

813
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:37,680
Speaker 4: that stopped me. My father's voice would always come back

814
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:40,919
Speaker 4: to me, even though he beat us, his voice would

815
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:44,320
Speaker 4: come back to me. Don't you ever hit a woman?

816
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 4: And then of course the power of the restraining influence

817
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:52,000
Speaker 4: of the Holy Spirit. Yeah, it would stop me.

818
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:55,440
Speaker 2: But man, because she she tried the man.

819
00:54:56,280 --> 00:54:58,720
Speaker 4: Yeah she did. That was some days that I wanted

820
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:02,320
Speaker 4: to Yeah, that was a day that I want I

821
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:03,319
Speaker 4: want to last out.

822
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:07,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially fifteen years, I couldn't. I can't even imagine.

823
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:12,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it was you know, and you know, I mean,

824
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:16,200
Speaker 4: and it's like seeing It's like any abusive situation, right,

825
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:22,800
Speaker 4: they're always honeymoon periods. Yeah, and See that's what causes

826
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:28,000
Speaker 4: problems because you could go two three months and it's nothing. Yeah,

827
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:32,720
Speaker 4: oh okay, getting along. You know, it's his honeymoon period.

828
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:34,760
Speaker 4: And then oh.

829
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:37,239
Speaker 2: Yeah that's a fact.

830
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:43,280
Speaker 4: Yeah. But what happened was the honeymoon periods. The longer

831
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:48,960
Speaker 4: you stay, the shorter of the honeymoon periods become. So

832
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:52,399
Speaker 4: that morning when I saw them citizens in it war,

833
00:55:53,480 --> 00:56:04,920
Speaker 4: man I left that day emotionally, spiritually, mentally, but I

834
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:06,799
Speaker 4: don't leave physically for another two years.

835
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:07,759
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.

836
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:13,520
Speaker 4: But I shut down. We were just basically roommates after that. Wow,

837
00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:17,200
Speaker 4: I shut down, you know, I mean I just I

838
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:17,799
Speaker 4: shut down.

839
00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:20,359
Speaker 2: I can imagine you checked out.

840
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:24,600
Speaker 4: I checked out. And what happened was I was up

841
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 4: in Chicago talking to my brother, and I was saying, man,

842
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:32,640
Speaker 4: I I was up there for a week. About the

843
00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:36,480
Speaker 4: six or seventh day, I woke up with this great

844
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:40,839
Speaker 4: feeling of euphoria mm hmm. And I couldn't figure out

845
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:41,840
Speaker 4: why I was feeling that.

846
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:44,000
Speaker 2: That's so good because you was away from huh.

847
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:48,960
Speaker 4: But my brother put it this way, You've forgotten what

848
00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:55,440
Speaker 4: real emotional, mental, and spiritual health feels like. Yeah, that's

849
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:58,880
Speaker 4: what you're feeling. And he says, man, that's a dark house.

850
00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:04,600
Speaker 4: If I were you, man, I go back. I filed

851
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 4: for divorce. I'd get out of the house as quick

852
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:09,840
Speaker 4: as you could. Yeah. And it took some time because

853
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:11,480
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, you got to get dollars together.

854
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:13,320
Speaker 4: We got a house, we got this, we got that.

855
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 4: And so what happened was I told her that I

856
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:18,880
Speaker 4: was gonna file for divorce.

857
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:21,680
Speaker 2: How old were you when this happened.

858
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:29,360
Speaker 4: I was twenty seven when we got married, So I

859
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:36,240
Speaker 4: was what forty three, forty four? We got a divorce. Wow,

860
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:40,040
Speaker 4: I'm sixty seven now. Wow.

861
00:57:40,160 --> 00:57:42,280
Speaker 2: Pastor out her looking like he in his thirties, y'all.

862
00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:46,040
Speaker 4: I call it. I called it the Holy Ghost and carriages.

863
00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:50,440
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, so we're almost finished, Pastor, but talk

864
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:52,880
Speaker 2: to us about the whole process of you leaving, because

865
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:55,160
Speaker 2: I didn't notice that you said that there was a

866
00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:56,680
Speaker 2: time when you thought about going back.

867
00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:02,240
Speaker 4: Yeah. So I so I So I finally left. I

868
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:07,040
Speaker 4: went downtown about of the divorce papers. That was so hard.

869
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:11,080
Speaker 4: I can imagine hard because you're standing and I'm standing

870
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:14,800
Speaker 4: in this line. Yeah, and the sign said divorce style

871
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:17,680
Speaker 4: is here. So for me, the sign may As who

872
00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:19,600
Speaker 4: had to say it. This is this is the line

873
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:25,960
Speaker 4: for failures, because no matter, no matter who causes the divorce,

874
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:28,360
Speaker 4: nobody unless you live in Hollywood and get married, to

875
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:32,240
Speaker 4: get a divorce, right, it's it's a failure. It's it's

876
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:36,200
Speaker 4: a death. And nobody can can prepare you for all

877
00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:39,320
Speaker 4: the waves of different emotions that come into your mind

878
00:58:40,600 --> 00:58:44,920
Speaker 4: and the voices of people telling you, you know you're

879
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:47,440
Speaker 4: a man of God, you get a divorce. But I

880
00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:50,160
Speaker 4: also been told that I would never preach again. I foe.

881
00:58:50,200 --> 00:58:52,200
Speaker 4: Tell me, if you get a divorce, you'll you'll be

882
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:56,320
Speaker 4: done in ministry. Wow, so forth and so forth and

883
00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:56,880
Speaker 4: so forth.

884
00:58:57,080 --> 00:58:59,920
Speaker 2: And that's a real thing. Yeah, it is a real thing.

885
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:03,040
Speaker 4: Yeah. I've even had churches even to this day tell

886
00:59:03,160 --> 00:59:05,120
Speaker 4: me I couldn't pass to their church because I was

887
00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:09,480
Speaker 4: the board and didn't want to didn't care why. So,

888
00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:12,480
Speaker 4: so here I am in this line. So I finally

889
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:16,280
Speaker 4: got up enough courage, filled out the paperwork. So I

890
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:20,680
Speaker 4: moved out into an eight by eighteen room and the

891
00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:25,240
Speaker 4: worst parts of Tampa, one of the worst neighborhoods in Tampa.

892
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:27,400
Speaker 4: You walk in the front the back door, I mean,

893
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:29,040
Speaker 4: this place is small. I gave her a house. I

894
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:31,200
Speaker 4: gave her everything. I just want peace.

895
00:59:31,560 --> 00:59:31,760
Speaker 6: Yeah.

896
00:59:32,680 --> 00:59:35,200
Speaker 4: One night I got a twin bed, I got a

897
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:39,120
Speaker 4: TV about Yahai move, miniature frigerator, a shower. You could

898
00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:41,240
Speaker 4: hardly do a three hundred and sixty to return it in.

899
00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:46,080
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm struggling right right, I'm struggling, and I'm

900
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:50,440
Speaker 4: sitting there one night, I am pressed and discouraged, and

901
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:53,640
Speaker 4: I'm like, I think maybe i should go back m

902
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:58,200
Speaker 4: nice house, food, you know, nice car.

903
00:59:58,800 --> 00:59:59,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's come.

904
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:06,080
Speaker 4: And God said there's a price to pay for peace.

905
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:07,600
Speaker 2: That's a fact.

906
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:11,080
Speaker 4: And he gave me a verse Joe, chapter two, verse

907
01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 4: twenty three and twenty four. I think it which is

908
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:16,240
Speaker 4: which I still playing to this day. And it says

909
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:20,600
Speaker 4: that God tells Israel, if you walk with me, I

910
01:00:20,680 --> 01:00:23,080
Speaker 4: will restore to you the years that the locus and

911
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:27,640
Speaker 4: cankerworms are eaten, and the bow and your vast will

912
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:30,439
Speaker 4: overflow with wine. Oh like, well, what are you saying?

913
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:38,960
Speaker 4: He said, Domestic bonus eats away at your mind, to emotions,

914
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:44,640
Speaker 4: your mental health. Trust me, your future will be so

915
01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:49,280
Speaker 4: right and so wonderful that when you look back on

916
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:54,240
Speaker 4: your vasts, it will pay all in comparison and I'm

917
01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:57,800
Speaker 4: a witness to this day. Yeah. God has restored me.

918
01:00:58,120 --> 01:01:03,400
Speaker 4: Wonderful wife, wonderful home, wonderful church, family, and I'm sitting

919
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:04,280
Speaker 4: here on your podcast.

920
01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:06,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I seen you in the first lady, y'a look

921
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:08,480
Speaker 2: so happy. I'm like, that's goals right there.

922
01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:15,040
Speaker 4: Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah, and so so yeah,

923
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:17,919
Speaker 4: and so that's so so a lot of times women

924
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:24,080
Speaker 4: to go back because of financial reasons, especially financial reasons. Yeah,

925
01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:28,760
Speaker 4: and that's why they stay so long too. It's easy

926
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:32,400
Speaker 4: for a man to get out of here and survive

927
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:34,000
Speaker 4: than it is for a woman. That's just the truth

928
01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:40,040
Speaker 4: of the mine. Yeah. So anyway, that's my story. Yeah.

929
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:42,360
Speaker 2: So what is your advice what you give to other

930
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:45,400
Speaker 2: men who might be experiencing domestic abuse but are a

931
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:47,640
Speaker 2: phrase to come forward due to the fear of not

932
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:48,880
Speaker 2: being believed.

933
01:01:53,200 --> 01:01:56,560
Speaker 4: Nothing to be ashamed of. It's not your fault. Tell

934
01:01:56,600 --> 01:02:05,000
Speaker 4: them same thing I will tell the female. You deserve freedom, love, mh, happiness.

935
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:09,160
Speaker 4: I'm actually counseling two men right now. I'm counseling two

936
01:02:09,240 --> 01:02:09,760
Speaker 4: men right now.

937
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:13,080
Speaker 2: Matter of fact, the abusers are they being abused, They.

938
01:02:13,240 --> 01:02:18,160
Speaker 4: Abused, abused, and they're having a hard time letting go.

939
01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:21,320
Speaker 4: I can imagine a time letting go.

940
01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:22,440
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.

941
01:02:23,200 --> 01:02:25,800
Speaker 4: And one of them is his daughter is telling them

942
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:30,960
Speaker 4: to get out because she's afraid he might get killed. Wow.

943
01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:35,560
Speaker 4: But it's it's it's that there's such a stigma. The

944
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:40,200
Speaker 4: stigma still exists. So what I'm trying to do is

945
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:47,960
Speaker 4: is to create an environment where they know the stigma

946
01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:52,280
Speaker 4: doesn't define them, right, that you're not alone, and that

947
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:54,320
Speaker 4: the other men that I have been abused you just

948
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:54,720
Speaker 4: don't know.

949
01:02:55,200 --> 01:02:56,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is true.

950
01:02:57,520 --> 01:03:00,240
Speaker 4: And so they get referred to me because I am

951
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:02,280
Speaker 4: a survival yeah. Yeah.

952
01:03:03,040 --> 01:03:05,320
Speaker 2: And last, but not least, how do you think society

953
01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:08,080
Speaker 2: can better support male survivors of domestic abuse?

954
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:14,360
Speaker 4: I think by letting men know that it's okay, you're

955
01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:18,280
Speaker 4: not less You're not less of a man. Yeah, because

956
01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:22,919
Speaker 4: you're not physically fighting back. You're not You're not less

957
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:25,000
Speaker 4: of a man because you stayed and tried to make

958
01:03:25,080 --> 01:03:28,480
Speaker 4: it work. And so I think I think more men

959
01:03:28,600 --> 01:03:36,080
Speaker 4: will woll you know, because there's still still a thing.

960
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:38,960
Speaker 4: If I tell somebody, they gonna think I'm a pump. Yeah,

961
01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:42,680
Speaker 4: you know, And I think that's the biggest stigma with men.

962
01:03:43,200 --> 01:03:45,320
Speaker 4: You know, I think that's the biggest stigma, you know,

963
01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:49,439
Speaker 4: instead of instead of saying, manhood is more than just muscles. Yeah,

964
01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:53,480
Speaker 4: and you know, manhood is being emotionally connected with yourself.

965
01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:57,360
Speaker 4: It's being in tune with your feelings. It's been able

966
01:03:57,400 --> 01:04:00,960
Speaker 4: to express how you really feel. Uh. It's about being

967
01:04:01,080 --> 01:04:04,840
Speaker 4: loving and kind and tender. Uh. But it's also about

968
01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:08,680
Speaker 4: being masculine as well. But I think I think society

969
01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:15,480
Speaker 4: we can help tremendously by letting me know that you're

970
01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:19,280
Speaker 4: not less than yeah, that you're more than.

971
01:04:20,040 --> 01:04:23,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a fact. Well, Pastor, normally, when I have

972
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 2: one of God's people on, because I have interview non

973
01:04:27,120 --> 01:04:31,720
Speaker 2: spiritual leaders ordained ministers, I always ask them to end

974
01:04:31,840 --> 01:04:34,280
Speaker 2: us with a prayer. So, Pastor, if you don't mind,

975
01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:36,720
Speaker 2: can you end us with a prayer about love? And

976
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:39,240
Speaker 2: also ask the Good Lord to send me my husband

977
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:40,520
Speaker 2: because I am tired.

978
01:04:44,520 --> 01:04:48,600
Speaker 4: Okay, let's father, Thank you Lord for the work that

979
01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:53,400
Speaker 4: she's doing with this podcast and and everything else that

980
01:04:53,520 --> 01:04:56,320
Speaker 4: she's doing. Lord for for you and for the kingdom

981
01:04:56,800 --> 01:05:03,240
Speaker 4: and to help people beforee and hold far by. Thank

982
01:05:03,320 --> 01:05:07,280
Speaker 4: you for our time together this evening, and trust that

983
01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:11,000
Speaker 4: what's been said and talked about will be fruitful, that

984
01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:16,439
Speaker 4: it will help someone walk away from abuse. Lord, would

985
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:19,760
Speaker 4: help someone understand that you have a plan, a purpose

986
01:05:19,800 --> 01:05:22,160
Speaker 4: for their life, and abuse is not part of that plan.

987
01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:26,640
Speaker 4: I thank you Lord, that churches would wake up and

988
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:29,800
Speaker 4: realize that they have a problem. The faith community would

989
01:05:29,800 --> 01:05:32,480
Speaker 4: wake up and realize that it has a problem, and

990
01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:35,800
Speaker 4: that we need to reassess what we teach, how we

991
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:40,480
Speaker 4: teach it, so that the words of Jesus can be true,

992
01:05:41,160 --> 01:05:45,320
Speaker 4: that he has come to set the captus free. And

993
01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:48,240
Speaker 4: so Lord, again, I thank you for this time together.

994
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:53,280
Speaker 4: And Lord, I just want to lift up my new friend.

995
01:05:54,160 --> 01:05:57,200
Speaker 4: And you know the desires of our heart for God.

996
01:05:58,360 --> 01:06:02,720
Speaker 4: And you said it is not good that man should

997
01:06:02,760 --> 01:06:05,080
Speaker 4: be alone, and it's not good that a woman should

998
01:06:05,080 --> 01:06:07,400
Speaker 4: be alone. And so Lord, I looked her up to you.

999
01:06:07,520 --> 01:06:09,760
Speaker 4: You know the desires of her heart. And I pray

1000
01:06:09,880 --> 01:06:12,520
Speaker 4: right now Lord that as she waits patiently upon you,

1001
01:06:13,760 --> 01:06:18,640
Speaker 4: But you are already preparing the man that is going

1002
01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:22,080
Speaker 4: to be her husband one day. And Lord, when that

1003
01:06:22,360 --> 01:06:26,960
Speaker 4: day happens, make it clear, make it plain, and we

1004
01:06:27,120 --> 01:06:32,160
Speaker 4: rejoice and wait with excited anticipation upon how you're going

1005
01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:36,240
Speaker 4: to bless her in this area of her life. So

1006
01:06:36,400 --> 01:06:38,400
Speaker 4: with that being said, we give you thanks so Gord

1007
01:06:39,200 --> 01:06:43,120
Speaker 4: the mighty name of Jesus Amen a.

1008
01:06:43,560 --> 01:06:47,080
Speaker 2: Man, Pastor, That's what I'm talking about. Oh, this has

1009
01:06:47,200 --> 01:06:50,200
Speaker 2: been such a pleasure, Pastor, thank you so much. I

1010
01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:52,560
Speaker 2: know he was having some technical difficulties, but this was

1011
01:06:52,640 --> 01:06:55,640
Speaker 2: definitely worth the wait. And I'm just so excited that

1012
01:06:55,760 --> 01:06:58,320
Speaker 2: you would be a part of the first male series

1013
01:06:58,480 --> 01:07:01,160
Speaker 2: of my show because I know that your story would

1014
01:07:01,160 --> 01:07:05,160
Speaker 2: definitely be inspirational and beneficial to not only men but

1015
01:07:05,320 --> 01:07:09,120
Speaker 2: women as well. So thank you so much. Faster yes,

1016
01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:12,000
Speaker 2: and to the listeners, if you have any questions, comments

1017
01:07:12,040 --> 01:07:14,120
Speaker 2: and concerns, please make sure to email me at hello

1018
01:07:14,240 --> 01:07:18,640
Speaker 2: at the psgpodcast dot com. And until next time, everyone

1019
01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:27,080
Speaker 2: Later you're gonna say bypasser now thumbs up yet, blesh y'all.

1020
01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:37,480
Speaker 2: The Professional Homegirl Podcast is a production of the Black

1021
01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:41,480
Speaker 2: Effect Podcast Network. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the

1022
01:07:41,560 --> 01:07:44,520
Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, app a podcasts, or wherever you listen to

1023
01:07:44,600 --> 01:07:47,800
Speaker 2: your favorite shows. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show,

1024
01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:50,520
Speaker 2: and you can connect with me on social media at

1025
01:07:50,600 --> 01:07:51,840
Speaker 2: the PG podcast