1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of I 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: and there's Charles W Chuck Bryant and this is Stuff 4 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 1: you Should Know, featuring Yarry. That's right, interesting history a dish, Yes, man, 5 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: I remember hearing this story back as an undergrad. Okay, 6 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:36,240 Speaker 1: a hot sexy undergrad boy. Were you um in learning 7 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 1: my history? Yeah? I can't remember what class. Must have 8 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:43,239 Speaker 1: been a European history class, but this this book just 9 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 1: always stuck with me. The The Return of Martin Geare 10 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: by Natalie Zimon Davis. Did you read it back then? Yeah? Yeah, 11 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:52,199 Speaker 1: it was assigned as part of the class. It was 12 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: a great, great book. But did you read it? Yes? Okay, 13 00:00:55,720 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 1: I was very eager, um, hot sexy undergrad history major. Well, 14 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: I mean that's why I majored in English because I 15 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:05,759 Speaker 1: like to read. So anytime I assigned a reading assignment, 16 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 1: I was like, great, I can do that. Yeah. That 17 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: was one reason I chose histories because I really enjoyed 18 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: reading history stuff. So I was like, well, if that's 19 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: what we're gonna be sitting around doing, let's do it. 20 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:17,040 Speaker 1: I don't know what we'll do with it after we're 21 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 1: with that degree. But we'll we'll roll the dice and 22 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:25,400 Speaker 1: find out you envisioned the future career. Were two lunkheads 23 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: with no previous broadcast experience could become Dare I say 24 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 1: noteworthy by talking into a can? Yeah? Yeah, I was 25 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:38,680 Speaker 1: gambling on lucking out to an astounding degree. Yeah, me too. 26 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: Sort of that weird. Yeah, it's funny how life work. Well, 27 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 1: it all worked out, and here we are, all these 28 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: years later to tell the story h of Martin. Is 29 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 1: it pronounced a gear? I've always pronounced it Martin Gear, 30 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 1: But we're talking. We're gonna go to sixteenth century France, 31 00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: so it's probably Martin Gear. Okay, but we're not going 32 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: to say it like but not Richard Gere. No, which 33 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 1: is ironic because Richard Gere was the lead in the 34 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 1: movie summers Be which was see you Look at your 35 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 1: improp skills? Yes, ending me uh. It was a sort 36 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:21,919 Speaker 1: of a not necessarily a remake, but a an adaptation 37 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: on the story of Martin Gearre and the movie that 38 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: starred Gerard de Pardu from the early nineteen eighties. Yes, 39 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 1: and yeah, I think that's it. No, but exactly end. Yeah, 40 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 1: had you heard this story before the story of Martin Gere, Yeah, 41 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 1: a little bit. I certainly didn't know it like I 42 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 1: know it now, but I did see the movie Summers 43 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: Be back then I knew it was kind of based 44 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: on that. And uh, you know, there have been other 45 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: versions of stories like this, um, I mean not, the 46 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: least of which is a story told in animation form 47 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: about a man young man off to war named armontans Arian. 48 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:07,360 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, I didn't even put tune two together. Sure, 49 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: when Principal Skinner took someone's identity during the war, and uh, 50 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:14,640 Speaker 1: it's sort of a common story, but this is I 51 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: think the o g Yeah, thanks for that too, because 52 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: we would have gotten myriad emails telling us what utter 53 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: failures we are in life for missing that Simpson's reference. Yeah, 54 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: that was his name, right, armontans Arian. Totally. Man. Can 55 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 1: you imagine how fun the writer's room was that day 56 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: trying to come up with what his real name would be. 57 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 1: You know, I have said it before, I'll say it 58 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: again that that's Matt Graening's least favorite Simpsons episode was 59 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: at the time years ago. Yeah, Red that one. I 60 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: don't know why. Al Right, I love it too. It's good. 61 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: So we're talking about a man named Martin Garret who 62 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: was like born a peasant in sixteenth century France in 63 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 1: the Long Doc region, in this like little area just 64 00:03:56,120 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 1: above Spain, just below to loose, if that makes sense 65 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: for you. And like, typically, Chuck, when people live and 66 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: die in areas like this, unless they do something spectacularly 67 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: interesting or noteworthy or important, they just kind of get 68 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 1: lost to history. Sure, and this guy, Martin Garrett, actually 69 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 1: didn't do anything spectacularly interesting or important or noteworthy. Um, 70 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: and yet we're still talking about him, like four hundred 71 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 1: and fifty issue years more than that later because his life. 72 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: Something happened to his life that was so interesting that 73 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 1: it's worth doing an entire podcast episode about all these 74 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:44,040 Speaker 1: years later. Uh greed. Uh. He was born in Spain 75 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: to a Basque family, and pretty quickly as a toddler 76 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 1: was brought over to France to how would you pronounce 77 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: such art a got or arta jatte or is it got? 78 00:04:56,520 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 1: I think got? Yeah, because cake is ghetto and it 79 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 1: begins with G. Look at you, all right, So arty 80 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:07,160 Speaker 1: got and his family got there and they got to 81 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 1: work pretty quickly, um, setting themselves up in different trades 82 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 1: like farming eventually tilemaking and merchant ng and did. Okay, 83 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: like they didn't have any kind of money, but they 84 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 1: worked hard and sort of rose through that um lower 85 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 1: tiered status to the point where they could marry off 86 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: young Martin to another family, the jar Rolls family, who 87 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:34,280 Speaker 1: you know, I think Dave Rouse, our our buddy who 88 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:36,839 Speaker 1: put who put this together for us. He said that 89 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:39,480 Speaker 1: they were well off, but I think they were well 90 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 1: off for their lower class though, right, yeah, they were 91 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: up and coming, he puts in. I think like they 92 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 1: were peasant farmers figuring out how to enter the merchant class, 93 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 1: which at the time was the very beginning of the 94 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: middle class. Okay, all right, well that makes sense then. Yeah, 95 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: so they were working their way up into the middle class. 96 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 1: So um, it was it was a like kind of 97 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 1: a coup. I take it for the gay family to 98 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: marry off Martin to Bertrand drawls um because her family 99 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 1: was a little better off. But yeah, they were really young. 100 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: Apparently later on Bertrand recalled that they were married at 101 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: age like nine or ten. Apparently that doesn't add up, 102 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 1: and that was probably more like thirteen or fourteen, So 103 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: you know, that's fine. Right. Uh, still very young. But 104 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:28,840 Speaker 1: this is the sixteenth century after all. Uh. So they 105 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 1: got married, and you know when you get married back then, 106 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: you want to start having babies pretty quickly. And they 107 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: had a hard time having babies because for the first 108 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: eight years of their marriage they did not consummate their marriage. Uh. 109 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:45,479 Speaker 1: And no one knows exactly why. There were rumors maybe 110 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 1: that Martin wasn't or Martine just wasn't into it. Um. 111 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 1: They were thirteen after all, so maybe you know, they 112 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 1: were normal children who kind of thought that wasn't the 113 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:58,279 Speaker 1: thing to do yet I don't know, or he was like, 114 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 1: how do I work this? He just sounded like David 115 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 1: Byrne and once in a lifetime. Uh. Some people blamed 116 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: it on a witch's curse. Uh. They eventually consulted with 117 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 1: a wise woman who said it go to these series 118 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 1: of masses at church because mass is always guaranteed to 119 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 1: make you randy. Uh. And he eat a special cake 120 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: that would sort of get him going downstairs and apparently 121 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 1: it worked. Crazy as they had a baby. They had 122 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: a little son, like right afterward it was a kick 123 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: made of fireplace ashes I saw. But you know, they're 124 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 1: in the early twenties at this point, by the way, Yeah, 125 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: like the appropriate h for that kind of thing. Right. 126 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: It makes you wonder though, like was it self you know, 127 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: self imposed and like he was able to to feel 128 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 1: like this curse or whatever was lifted off of him 129 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: from eating that cake. But regardless, it happened like almost 130 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: immediately Bertrand got pregnant and they had a son named Senxi, 131 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 1: who was the same name of Martin's father. So um, 132 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 1: Martin said, Hey, this is really amazing. I've really turned 133 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: a new corner in life. I'm really interested to see 134 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: what life brings me now and just got back to 135 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: work with now with a son and wife. Right. Yeah, 136 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: But here's the thing, and I think there's really no 137 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: other way to describe Martin. Uh, everything I read, basically 138 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: it sounds like he was a real a hole. Yes, 139 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: that was the impression I had to He was not 140 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: a nice guy. He was not a nice husband. I 141 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: didn't see anything necessarily about like overt abuse. But he 142 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:36,960 Speaker 1: just seemed like a real jerk, uh, sort of to 143 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: his family and around town, and he was kind of 144 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:44,199 Speaker 1: looking to get out of town. And his father accused 145 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 1: him of stealing grain from the family stores. And then 146 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: selling it for a profit, which was not cool. Even 147 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:53,719 Speaker 1: if it's your own family, it's probably more uncool that 148 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: it's your own family, and so never trust family that's 149 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: on the shirt. But instead saying like, wait a minute, 150 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 1: I want to defend myself, he just took off, and 151 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: he's like, sorry, wife and young son, but I don't 152 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 1: really like you guys that much anyway, so I'm out 153 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: of here. I see him as like an early twenties 154 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 1: gen xers, like whatever, man, I can't deal with this 155 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 1: at all. I'm out of here. And you get the 156 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 1: impression that he was just looking for a reason to leave, 157 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 1: and he did. He got it. He didn't defend himself, 158 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 1: which I mean in sixteenth century France or Basque culture, um, 159 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: that is something you would want to do if your 160 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: honor was being impugned. That was one of the few 161 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 1: currencies you had, so you would want to defend yourself. 162 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 1: So I think it says a lot about somebody at 163 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: that time who didn't even bother defending himself. He's just left, 164 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: and he left his wife and child um without providing 165 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 1: for them in any way. Like sure they had like 166 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 1: his his you know, inheritance, his money, um his share 167 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: of whatever the family owned, but he didn't like set 168 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 1: them up in any way. Before he left, he just 169 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: put down his plowshare, put down his tile making tongs, 170 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 1: and just laughed. That's right. He ended up in Spain. 171 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:14,559 Speaker 1: He went back to Spain, Uh settled in b U 172 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 1: r g o s Burghos and became a servant for 173 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 1: a noble family. And they noticed, like, hey, dude, you're 174 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:24,440 Speaker 1: pretty good fencer. You're good with a sword. You should 175 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 1: get you armied up. So he joined the Spanish army, 176 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 1: who was at war with France at the time, and 177 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 1: he fought for five years before and this is a 178 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 1: very key detail I think before we go into our 179 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 1: first break, that he was hitting the leg with a 180 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 1: bullet and had his leg amputated. Yes, so we'll take 181 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: a break. Hang on to that, put a pin in it, 182 00:10:45,120 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: and we'll be right back. So let's zero in on 183 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 1: Bertrand for the while, shall we the wife if you 184 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: don't remember Bertrand, Yes, Bertrando Rolls, who became married to 185 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 1: Martin Garrett, maybe aged nine to fourteen, depending on who 186 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 1: you ask. Seemed like a savvy young woman. Yes, now 187 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 1: this is new. We gotta say this so, like Natalie 188 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: Zimon Davis, Um, you mentioned that film The Return of 189 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: Martin Gere, Sorry, Gerard Depardiu, that Summers b was partly 190 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 1: based on right correct. She was the um consultant on 191 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 1: that historical consultant film, and she was so put off 192 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: by the retelling of this story that she published her 193 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: book two years afterward. Part of part of that book, 194 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: part of her big contra abution. She made tons of 195 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 1: contributions to the to the historical record, turned up a 196 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: lot of great documents and everything, but subjectively, her big 197 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 1: contribution was completely altering the way people saw Bertrand up 198 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: to this point she was a loyal, chast devoted wife 199 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: who would end up being duped, you could say, as 200 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 1: we'll see very soon. And under Natalie Simon davis is 201 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 1: reading of her, um, she was a very shrewd woman 202 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 1: who figured out how to navigate within the confines of 203 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:37,959 Speaker 1: a male dominated middle age French society. Yeah. And one 204 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: of the first things that we can bring up to 205 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 1: sort of support this and I kind of like this 206 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 1: narrative a lot. By the way, um is the fact 207 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: that she got married when she was let's say, um, 208 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: just meet there in the middle and uh, you know, 209 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: he had Martine had problems, you know, uh, having sex 210 00:12:56,400 --> 00:13:00,559 Speaker 1: for eight years, and so she was, Um, it's acculated 211 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 1: from from Davis at least that she was kind of like, Hey, 212 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:05,440 Speaker 1: this isn't so bad. I don't want to be doing 213 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:08,160 Speaker 1: that anyway, especially with this kid who was a jerk, 214 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:10,560 Speaker 1: and I don't want to have a kid. I'm thirteen 215 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: years old. So by the time, you know, she's got 216 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:16,960 Speaker 1: four sisters, I really love them. Uh, he's you know, 217 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:19,719 Speaker 1: his family seems to be doing okay. My family is 218 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:21,680 Speaker 1: doing okay. At the time, that was a big deal. 219 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 1: And so the fact that she had to wait until 220 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:28,559 Speaker 1: she was in her early twenties to finally uh to 221 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 1: you know, I expect to lose her virginity to Martin 222 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:37,959 Speaker 1: and then have this kid wasn't so bad after all. Yeah, 223 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:40,680 Speaker 1: because she could have asked for the marriage to be 224 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 1: annulled after three years passed without it being consummated by 225 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: under French law at the time, I think French Catholic law. Um, 226 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 1: and she didn't. She's just she's like so yeah, that 227 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 1: definitely substantiates um. Zimon Davis has claimed that like she 228 00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: was just kind of rolling with it. She she was like, okay, 229 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 1: I'm I'm kind the happy with this, and she didn't 230 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: try and get married when he left either. There were 231 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 1: a lot of strict laws about remarrying, like if the 232 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 1: husband disappears or something, you had to have proof of 233 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: death with witnesses and all that stuff. And she was 234 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 1: basically like, hey, I'm kind of a widow here. His 235 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: uncle Pierre is married to my mom. Now they're taking 236 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: really good care of me, got a lot of help 237 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 1: with my baby, So I'm pretty cool to just chill here. Yeah. 238 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 1: So in this in this reading, she's saying, Natalie Ziemond 239 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 1: Davis is saying like she didn't have a choice. Like again, 240 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 1: under French Catholic law at the time, like it says, 241 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: not even when a husband has been absent twenty years 242 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 1: or more, can a wife remarry unless she has proof 243 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: of his death. And it's got to be like like 244 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: irrefutable proof that this person has died, their husbands died. 245 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 1: She didn't have the irrefutable proof, but she didn't. Also, 246 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 1: she didn't she didn't like go like take love hers. 247 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 1: She didn't ask to have an exception made for her, 248 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: and so it painted her her her image among the 249 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: townsfolk and among her family that she was a chase, 250 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 1: devoted wife who was just gonna wait for her lousy 251 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: husband for as long as it took, and then also 252 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 1: took on the converse side of that. That just goes 253 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 1: to show you just how fully and selfishly um Martin 254 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 1: abandoned her, knowing full well that she couldn't remarry because 255 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 1: she wouldn't have any proof of his death. So he 256 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 1: left her in limbo. Like even more, it wasn't even 257 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 1: like I'm leaving. Good luck with your life. You do 258 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: what you want with it. It was I'm leaving. You 259 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 1: have to stick around and wait until I decided to 260 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 1: come back, if ever, that's right. Uh. So things are 261 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 1: going along like this. She's living her life again, has 262 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 1: plenty of help with her baby, and then one day 263 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: in town at a hostel, a man wanders in it says, Hi, 264 00:15:55,520 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: I'm Martine Garre uh and I'm back. Everybody like, check 265 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 1: it out. It's been a while. The innkeeper says, you know, 266 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: oh my god, your wife, Bertrand and your son. It's 267 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: so exciting to be reunited and heart He breaks down crying, 268 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 1: and everyone of course in town comes running up and uh, 269 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: to see who this person is, including his his wife, 270 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 1: and they all went, huh, you look a little different Martin. 271 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 1: I think that's how they initially approached it. Well, because 272 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 1: he did. Apparently he had gotten shorter, heavier, his nose 273 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: had changed. Um, wasn't his Drupyuh? Let's read that. There's 274 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: a description from later court records that would happen of 275 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 1: um what Martin Gare supposedly looked like? Can I read 276 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: this please? Martin Garre was taller and darker than this 277 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: man who showed up. He was a man thin and 278 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: body and legs a little bent, carrying his head between 279 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:04,399 Speaker 1: his shoulders, the chin cleft like hue lewis a little 280 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 1: thrust forward, whose lip lower lip drooped a little, having 281 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:11,879 Speaker 1: small teeth, a large and flattened nose and ulcer on 282 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 1: his face, and a scar on his right eyebrow. This 283 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,679 Speaker 1: person was short, thick set, strong of body, having a 284 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 1: heavy leg, does not have a flat nose, nor is bent, 285 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 1: nor has any of the said scars. So an entirely 286 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 1: different looking person showed up and it's like, hey, everybody 287 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: remember me Martin Gare right? Uh? And it's important to 288 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: note here that no one in town knew that Martin 289 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:40,200 Speaker 1: had lost his leg in the war. Yeah, so that 290 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 1: was obviously would have been the biggest red flag. But 291 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 1: this guy comes back and he doesn't look like him, 292 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:47,959 Speaker 1: but he knows all the stories. He's saying, like, hey, 293 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:51,199 Speaker 1: remember when we did this, and he would hang out 294 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 1: with the townspeople and he'd say, I remember that time 295 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 1: we did that, and this this great time we had 296 00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:59,679 Speaker 1: over here doing this, and everyone's just like, oh my gosh, 297 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 1: Like he knows all the stories. It doesn't look like him, 298 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: but you know what, this guy's kind of fun and 299 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 1: awesome and nice. Yeah, and I don't know what happened 300 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 1: to him in the war, but like we'll take him. Yes. 301 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 1: So eight years had passed and he apparently physically changed drastically, 302 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 1: but also most notably, his personality had changed distinctly for 303 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:23,120 Speaker 1: the better. He was a charmer now, and like you said, 304 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: he remembered all these stories. So everybody said, let's uh, 305 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 1: let's see where this goes. Basically, yeah, and there's another 306 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:33,679 Speaker 1: key move here we need to point out, um right away. 307 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 1: He didn't just go back to the family farm and 308 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:38,639 Speaker 1: to the family house with everyone. He said, you know 309 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:41,640 Speaker 1: what I have the pox. I'm not feeling so great, 310 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: so let me stay here at the hostel for a 311 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 1: little bit and recover, which turned out to be a 312 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,439 Speaker 1: very sort of savvy key move. Yes, one of the 313 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 1: other two. One of the other things that he did 314 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: to that definitely convinced bertrand Um and others who were 315 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:58,440 Speaker 1: who were there. He said, by the way, I'm gonna 316 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 1: stay here and recover until I'm done with this pox. Um, 317 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 1: but can you go fetch my white stockings, my white 318 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:09,360 Speaker 1: hose from this particular drawer, in this particular chest where 319 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 1: I left them eight years ago? And she went back 320 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: and went to that particular chest in drawer and found 321 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:17,439 Speaker 1: his white sox were there, just as she remembered him 322 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: leaving them there eight years ago. So like that, and 323 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 1: a bunch of other stuff that he seemed to remember 324 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 1: that only Martin would know. Um really convinced everybody like, no, 325 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 1: this is Martin. He's a little different, but we like 326 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: him even more now and we're going to get along 327 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: with him just fine. Right. And bertrand also was like, 328 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 1: and the other thing is when you left, you were 329 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 1: not very interested in sex from me, and you seem 330 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 1: to be really into that now. And so I'll take 331 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 1: that as well. Uh, And in fact, I will give 332 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 1: birth to two daughters in return. Sadly, only one of 333 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 1: them survived infancy. And her name was is it Bernard 334 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:57,679 Speaker 1: or bernarda Bernard? Okay, I didn't know that could be 335 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:00,360 Speaker 1: a little girl's name, but I think we you add 336 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 1: an e on the end it girls it up? Okay, 337 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: but you don't. You don't pronounce you. No, no, it's all. 338 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: It's all just for looks, okay, all right. So to 339 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:14,360 Speaker 1: catch up, he's back in town. Everyone likes the new 340 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:18,920 Speaker 1: and improved Martine gear Uh. He has another daughter, and 341 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:22,639 Speaker 1: he's having sex with his wife and everything's going great 342 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 1: until who becomes his main foil gets involved, and that 343 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: would be his uncle Pierre. And remember so Pire gare 344 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: he's a he's another main character in this He by 345 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:40,359 Speaker 1: this time, after Martin left, married Bartron's mother, so now 346 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 1: he's Bartron's uncle in law and father in law or stepfather, 347 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 1: uncle in law and stepfather, that's right. And at first 348 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:55,240 Speaker 1: he welcomed this new improved Martin back with open arms. 349 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 1: He was credulous at first, and then he won him 350 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:01,360 Speaker 1: over with some memories. The new Martin did and um, 351 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 1: and so Pierre said, okay, let's go with it, and 352 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,199 Speaker 1: everybody was kind of going along and getting along. And 353 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:10,679 Speaker 1: then I guess one day Martin said, um, hey, by 354 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,639 Speaker 1: the way, Pierre, remember my inheritance, my part of the 355 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:16,400 Speaker 1: land and my part of the wealth that I left 356 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: behind that you've been managing. Well, I know you made 357 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:21,879 Speaker 1: a bunch of money off of it. I feel like 358 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 1: that's my money. So can I have my money, Pierre? 359 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:28,680 Speaker 1: Can I please? And Pierre didn't like that idea at all. 360 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 1: And it's not clear whether he just didn't like that 361 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:34,199 Speaker 1: idea or whether he didn't like that idea because he 362 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,360 Speaker 1: didn't think this was Martin after all, and this guy 363 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 1: was overstepping his bounds. I don't know. But one of 364 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 1: the things that he did was assemble his son's to 365 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 1: try to beat Martin to death on the road. And 366 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 1: had it not been for Bear Trand throwing herself on 367 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 1: top of Martin Martin's body, Um, they probably would have 368 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:56,720 Speaker 1: succeeded in in murdering him. Yeah, I mean, he it's interesting, 369 00:21:56,760 --> 00:22:00,160 Speaker 1: like I fill in a little bit of the narrative blanks, 370 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 1: is you know someone who's into movies and literature and stuff. 371 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 1: It seems to me like Pierre was kind of like, hey, 372 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: everyone seems to like this guy, so I'm not going 373 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:11,719 Speaker 1: to be the one to stand in the way. Uh. 374 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 1: He didn't want to rocks the boat until this money 375 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 1: thing came up, and that's Martin actually took him to court, 376 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 1: and that's when things really changed. And that's when Pierre 377 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,879 Speaker 1: started talking to anyone who would listen and saying, you 378 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:30,360 Speaker 1: know what, he's basque and he doesn't understand these basque phrases. 379 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: This dude was a great fencer. He's this guy's no fencer. 380 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,160 Speaker 1: He's not even into it at all. He doesn't look 381 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:39,680 Speaker 1: anything like his son. And I think this guy is 382 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:44,919 Speaker 1: a fraud. And it's interesting that the town like it 383 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:46,640 Speaker 1: seems to be. And we'll get to the court case, 384 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,439 Speaker 1: but it seemed to be almost divided whether or not 385 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,119 Speaker 1: people said, no, we think it's him and it's all good, 386 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,640 Speaker 1: and people have said no, I think he is a fraud. Uh. 387 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: And it just goes to show sort of the power 388 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: of those stories's because at the time, in sixteenth century France, 389 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,400 Speaker 1: how else would you explain something like, you know, hey, 390 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:09,640 Speaker 1: remember that time we went and pushed over that cow 391 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,119 Speaker 1: and I and I did a dance on him on 392 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 1: his belly, like you know, that's a powerful thing back 393 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,920 Speaker 1: then when you don't have photographs and any other kind 394 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 1: of shared recollection that you can easily point to. So 395 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,879 Speaker 1: you know, he fooled a lot of people. Yeah, he 396 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:26,919 Speaker 1: definitely did. I wonder how much he was playing on 397 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 1: people's propensity to not want to admit a mistake or 398 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:32,880 Speaker 1: that they were wrong. That plays into it. I'm sure 399 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: it's got too. But like you said, the town was divided, 400 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: and it was divided between Pierre and then this new Martin, 401 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,679 Speaker 1: and very crucially on the side of this new Martin 402 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,239 Speaker 1: was Beartrand. She threw she cast her a lot with 403 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,159 Speaker 1: him and said, no, this man is Martin Gere. I 404 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 1: will um anyone who is mad enough to say otherwise, 405 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,360 Speaker 1: I will make him die, which is a weird way 406 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:58,919 Speaker 1: to to create a death threat, but it was. It 407 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 1: was a death threat. And on the asked but um. 408 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 1: This was despite m Bertrand's mother, who was Pierre's wife, 409 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 1: coming to her and being like, look, you need to 410 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: get with Pierre here. He's he's on the side of right, 411 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 1: and um she still said no. So um. Pierre also 412 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 1: he had. There were there were people who backed him up, 413 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 1: like the the shoemaker. Right, yeah, there was a little 414 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: matter of the fact. And this is in somers Bey too, 415 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,679 Speaker 1: that he came back from the war with a different 416 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,719 Speaker 1: foot size. That's a big change. That's a very drastic change, 417 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,879 Speaker 1: it is. And technically he did come back with a 418 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 1: different foot size, but in a radically different way. Well yeah, 419 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:44,359 Speaker 1: because everything changed in fifteen fifty nine. He had been 420 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 1: back a few years at this point, and a Spanish 421 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 1: soldier wanders through town and heard about this story of 422 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 1: Martin Gierre and said, hey, wait a minute, I knew 423 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 1: that guy during the war and he's only got one leg. 424 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,919 Speaker 1: And it's like that's when it's like Mike Brady throwing 425 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 1: the the briefcase in the courtroom. Just a hush falls 426 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: over the crowd. And he said, no, this effect is 427 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:12,879 Speaker 1: uh an impostor an inteloper. And I believe he is 428 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 1: Arnold Till, and he is a Spanish man of ill repute. Yes, 429 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 1: so Pierre um like I got word out to nearby 430 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: villages and and and confirm this that it probably was 431 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,879 Speaker 1: a guy named Arnold de Til who was from a 432 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 1: town about thirty miles away called SaHas s A j 433 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 1: A S I think I think probably right, that's about 434 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 1: a day or two of travel from already got um. 435 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: So it's far enough away but close enough that you 436 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,679 Speaker 1: could get you could you could confirm or deny whether 437 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,880 Speaker 1: somebody was someone from that town. Right, Yeah, this guy, 438 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,119 Speaker 1: you know, he's a bit of a rough house or 439 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 1: he drank a lot and he gambled, and he bedded 440 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: down with sex workers and had a big appetite. I mean, 441 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: our departdu played this guy for God's sake, So that 442 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: kind of tells you all you need to know. All right, So, uh, 443 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: this guy all of a sudden is seemingly um found out. 444 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 1: But the story is is that he went off joined 445 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 1: the French army. Uh, this are no guy uh. And 446 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 1: the question is like did he meet Martin on the battlefield. 447 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 1: What we ended up finding out much later is that 448 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,400 Speaker 1: a couple of old friends of Martin actually mistook him 449 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 1: for Martin uh initially and then where like, you look 450 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 1: just like our friend this guy back in uh small 451 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,879 Speaker 1: town France, who's actually got a pretty good um doubt 452 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 1: not dowry, but pretty good prospects monetarily waiting for him 453 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 1: back home and this pretty good looking wife, and all 454 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: of a sudden, the wheels start turning in Arnold's mind. Right, 455 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 1: It's not clear whether those two ended up becoming accomplices 456 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 1: or else, if he was just able to kind of 457 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 1: like work info out of them over time, But that 458 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 1: is that does seem to be I think he's He 459 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 1: later admitted that's where he got the He's like, how 460 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,440 Speaker 1: much do I look like him? Right? Exactly? Oh spinning 461 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:12,120 Speaker 1: image men? Oh goodness. He also was like really, um, 462 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 1: really clever in that, Like he stayed behind at that 463 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,399 Speaker 1: hostile like he first appeared at the hostel, rather than 464 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 1: showing up in town. That was a big one. He 465 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 1: stayed behind with the pox I made scare quotes. Um 466 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 1: he uh, so he could gather more information just slowly, 467 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,680 Speaker 1: but surely. He just seemed like the type you could 468 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 1: get something out of you without you realizing it, because 469 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:36,680 Speaker 1: you were just having a good time hanging out with him, right, 470 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:38,960 Speaker 1: Like I wonder if he was like, yeah, because I 471 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: remember that time we pushed over that cow and I 472 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,400 Speaker 1: was like, oh, you mean the horse that time when 473 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,679 Speaker 1: we did this. He's like, oh yeah, that was totally 474 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 1: it totally I was so drunk. I remember being a 475 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 1: cow and everybody starts laughing. Right, but you didn't drink 476 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: much back then, Well, I drank on the side. You 477 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:57,119 Speaker 1: didn't know it was secret, right, was also on the 478 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,920 Speaker 1: pills that was German. Yeah, you're really all over Europe 479 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,679 Speaker 1: right now. So, and this is where Natalie Zeman Davis 480 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:08,639 Speaker 1: comes in, Like, it's it's clear that this guy was 481 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 1: really good at getting information from people without them realizing 482 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 1: that he was extracting information, using that information um with 483 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 1: his very very good memory UM to lull you into 484 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 1: a sense of security or trust for him that he 485 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:30,360 Speaker 1: was to to overcome your instincts against trusting that he's 486 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:35,679 Speaker 1: he was who said he was. But that no, no 487 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 1: amount of preparation and research in the in the sixteenth 488 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: century setting could have helped him get away with this 489 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: so thoroughly without the help of Bertrand. That's Natalie Ziemon 490 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 1: Davis is like her thesis is like, there's no way 491 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 1: that Bertrand was a dupe, that she wasn't complicit, and 492 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 1: that you know, she probably it's tough to blame her 493 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: because her life improved dramatically after this guy showed up. Yeah, 494 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 1: I mean if she would have caused a stink like 495 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 1: Pierre did early on as the wife, it would have 496 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 1: been a much much different deal, I think than her 497 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 1: completely defending him, and Day points out we're never gonna know, 498 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: like he's in the in the town going to the 499 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 1: pub and he's talking with people about the stories, but 500 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 1: she's with him as wife full time behind closed doors 501 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,480 Speaker 1: and we'll never know what went on there. But in 502 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 1: my mind, in the movie version, there's a scene at 503 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: some point where she goes, hey, listen, I know you're 504 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 1: not him, but it's okay because you're actually a nice 505 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 1: guy and I can make this work. Yeah. I think 506 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 1: that Jodie Foster's famous line is, hey, bubs, let's cut 507 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 1: the s Missa Chika may n Now I haven't seen 508 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 1: Nell in so long. I never have. I'm just putting 509 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:05,960 Speaker 1: mine written together from from previews I saw like twenty 510 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 1: five years ago. I think, Yeah, I don't think it 511 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 1: was a very good movie, or maybe I'm misremembering, or 512 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 1: maybe i'm remembering it. I think we have to watch it. 513 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 1: Oh boy, I want to watch this instead. So this 514 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 1: this whole idea that bertrand is uh is is a complicit. 515 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 1: It's a new idea. It's a modern take for centuries. 516 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 1: She was in the storytelling. She was duped. Like, that's 517 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 1: how good and wiley this are no do till was 518 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 1: that being an impostor. He duped the man's wife. That's 519 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 1: how good he was. And when you when you hear that, 520 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 1: and then you hear Natalie Zimon Davis's take, you're like, 521 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 1: that's a pretty ridiculous idea. But that's how it was. 522 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,480 Speaker 1: And and and as we'll see, Bertrand was never was 523 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 1: never um persecuted or prosecuted for her role in it. 524 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 1: She she got out of it as well. Should we 525 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 1: take a break, Yeah, let's all right, we'll take our 526 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 1: last break, and we'll talk about the first trial of 527 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 1: Martin gear right after this. All right, the first trial, 528 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 1: I said of Martin Gerre, but we're gonna call it 529 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 1: the first trial of our no. Uh. He was put 530 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 1: on trial in a town called r i e u 531 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:49,560 Speaker 1: x ru ru ru u. Uh. He was put on 532 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 1: trial specifically for stealing another man's identity, adultery, taking his property. 533 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 1: And Dave points out very uh aptly that this is 534 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 1: like in the sixteenth century, how do you prove something 535 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 1: like this? You could give him memory test, but uh, 536 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 1: you know, you could we already know he has a 537 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 1: great memory and kind of did his homework. You could 538 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,960 Speaker 1: get villagers up there to testify, which they certainly did, 539 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 1: but they're biased. You could you know, compare them physically, 540 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,960 Speaker 1: which they did, but it seems like that didn't matter 541 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 1: much because uh, some people knew like he for sure 542 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,480 Speaker 1: he had different foot size. Uh. And also they didn't 543 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: you know, have the kind of photographs and handwriting comps 544 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: and stuff like that that just it was a lot 545 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 1: easier to get away with something like this back then. 546 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 1: Plus also for just about everybody who said, oh no 547 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 1: his long his nose was long and flat, others would 548 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 1: say no, no, it was short and pointy like this 549 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 1: guy right exactly. Plus I mean, you've got no fingerprinting, 550 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 1: no DNA tests, not even like standardized stuff like driver's 551 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:54,440 Speaker 1: licenses or passports. There weren't even like wagon licenses at 552 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,280 Speaker 1: the time, so there really wasn't any way but to 553 00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:01,120 Speaker 1: hear as many people as possible and then just thoughtfully 554 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 1: kind of sort through their testimony and that first trial 555 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 1: at you, um Martin gear and at a time or 556 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 1: I should say our no do till Um, at a 557 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 1: time when a lot of people would have shrunk at 558 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:20,160 Speaker 1: the challenge, rose to the challenge, maybe more than anybody 559 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 1: ever living would have. Like this guy defended his honor 560 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:31,800 Speaker 1: as much as the real Martin gear would have. Probably more. Actually, 561 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: as we'll see as we saw. The other thing I 562 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 1: wanted to bring up to is, like I would say, 563 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: so much of this was impacted solely on the fact 564 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 1: that a lot of people like this guy, you know, 565 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,440 Speaker 1: and and they like the new Martin, and they're not 566 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 1: going to go in there in sixteenth century France and 567 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 1: cause a big stink. They're gonna say. No, I think 568 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 1: it's him. He knew this story, and he's got that 569 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:57,000 Speaker 1: and I remember that knows and what's the foot size anyway? 570 00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:58,800 Speaker 1: Those those fee can change sizes, right, what do we 571 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,120 Speaker 1: even know about that? Yeah, this is what this guy said. 572 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 1: So he crossed, examined witnesses against him, and for that 573 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 1: shoemaker in particular, he said, this man is a drinking 574 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:09,879 Speaker 1: companion of Pierre Gare. Let him show his records about 575 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 1: the size of my feet. Um. He also confronted a 576 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:17,799 Speaker 1: man who was his uncle Um from SaHas, who was 577 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 1: our no do Tills uncle, who said, yeah, that's our 578 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,919 Speaker 1: no do till he's cross examining me right now. He said, 579 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 1: I've never seen this man before in my life, and 580 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:28,920 Speaker 1: he's my uncle. Why can't he produce other members of 581 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,280 Speaker 1: my family that say so um so that a confidence 582 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:36,240 Speaker 1: person does con Man is like so adamant their beliefs 583 00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,480 Speaker 1: that that's that's what they used to trick you. Yes, 584 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,839 Speaker 1: and again it wasn't just him um bertrand was saying, 585 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 1: this man is my husband. I would rather suffer a 586 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 1: thousand cruel deaths than say otherwise. His sisters did too, right, Yes, 587 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 1: that was a big one. So all four of Martin 588 00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 1: Garret's sisters came and testified at this trial that nope, 589 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:56,719 Speaker 1: this is our brother, like he's our brother. I don't 590 00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:00,080 Speaker 1: know what else we can say. And yet just I 591 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:04,000 Speaker 1: the um the testimony in favor of him the judge, 592 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 1: and you said, now I think you're an impostor and 593 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 1: I'm going to find you guilty. That's right, pay to 594 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:14,720 Speaker 1: a public apology and a ceremony. Um, pay your wife 595 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:19,600 Speaker 1: two thousand francs. And uh, this one other little tidbit, 596 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:25,880 Speaker 1: we're going to behead you and quarter you. And he went, oh, 597 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,960 Speaker 1: how about we is there such a thing as uh 598 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:32,320 Speaker 1: appealing to a higher court, and they said, well, unfortunately 599 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:35,040 Speaker 1: there is, and so now we will talk about this 600 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:39,399 Speaker 1: second trial. Yeah, this was like to the appellate court, 601 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 1: this group of like the finest legal minds in France. Um. 602 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 1: They were called the what were they called chuck holed Parliament, 603 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,160 Speaker 1: the criminal chamber of the Parliament of to lose Okay, 604 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,040 Speaker 1: So they were basically, like I said, the finest legal 605 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,319 Speaker 1: minds in France who were coming together to hear this 606 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:01,720 Speaker 1: story that was pretty much sweeping the not just the nation, 607 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,719 Speaker 1: but like this part of Europe that there's this guy 608 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 1: who's being called an impostors defending himself and this whole 609 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:09,799 Speaker 1: town is split about whether he is who he says 610 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,839 Speaker 1: he is. And one of the judges in the case 611 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,440 Speaker 1: was Jean de korros Um, who went on to actually 612 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:20,440 Speaker 1: write the first and earliest account of this case. He 613 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 1: actually wrote two of them. He wrote a sequel that 614 00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:26,640 Speaker 1: delved a little more into our known dutils life. Um. 615 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:30,960 Speaker 1: But the people who came together to hear this case 616 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:36,600 Speaker 1: basically got even better UM version of what had happened 617 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:40,759 Speaker 1: in Ryu. That's right, uh, And another example here early 618 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:44,440 Speaker 1: on in this trial of Bertrand being very savvy with 619 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,719 Speaker 1: her moves because she was basically like, hey, listen, I'm 620 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:49,719 Speaker 1: not going to say that this man is impostor. I 621 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,920 Speaker 1: think he is my husband. Uh but if he's not, 622 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:57,840 Speaker 1: he sure fooled me right exactly, not my fault. Yeah, 623 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,200 Speaker 1: he also so this is another thing too. He So 624 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 1: the judges really wanted to, um, this guy to be 625 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:12,239 Speaker 1: the real guy. Uh. Decoras says, um that they put 626 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 1: more weight to the affirmative testimony because they want Yeah, 627 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:20,760 Speaker 1: they wanted him to be that. Yeah, they wanted to 628 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,120 Speaker 1: not be an impostor. So they put more weight into 629 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,799 Speaker 1: affirmative testimony because they felt that, um, it was more 630 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:30,640 Speaker 1: positive than say, like negative testimony, which was destructive, which 631 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:34,560 Speaker 1: makes sense an illegal like a certain way legally, but 632 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:38,799 Speaker 1: but more more than that, the affirmative testimony also affirmed 633 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 1: this marriage and this family and this household that was 634 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,000 Speaker 1: already intact and that didn't want to be split apart. 635 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:46,880 Speaker 1: It's not like Bertrand was saying this man is not 636 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,200 Speaker 1: my husband. She's saying he is my husband, please leave 637 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:53,000 Speaker 1: us alone. And the judges wanted to support that and 638 00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:57,680 Speaker 1: are no de Till gave them heaping mountains folds of 639 00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:00,360 Speaker 1: stuff to to go ahead and go along on with this, 640 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,759 Speaker 1: and he actually he stood up to all this testimony, 641 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:07,160 Speaker 1: did it again. He survived all these memory tests. Bar 642 00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:10,120 Speaker 1: Trond hung in there. He got so good, Chuck that 643 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:12,799 Speaker 1: he on the stand said, I just want you to 644 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,360 Speaker 1: know I forgive you for having to testify against me. 645 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,200 Speaker 1: I know you don't want to, but I can give you. 646 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:19,560 Speaker 1: I don't hold it against you, dear wife. That's how 647 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:22,920 Speaker 1: much I love you. And those judges were like, swoon, 648 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:29,080 Speaker 1: I wish I was bear Tron. And he won them over, Chuck, 649 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,839 Speaker 1: and they were about to rule in his favor that 650 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:36,000 Speaker 1: he was Martin Gear and everybody just shut up about 651 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:39,720 Speaker 1: it from now on. Except there was a twist that happened. 652 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,839 Speaker 1: Huh yeah, And this would be great for an ad break, 653 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:47,120 Speaker 1: but we've already done it, so we'll just say, very simply, 654 00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:51,160 Speaker 1: a man walks in with a wooden leg in the 655 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:55,040 Speaker 1: movie version, I'm sure in the movie version that didn't 656 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:59,280 Speaker 1: happen quite like that. But the real Martin Gear please 657 00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:03,840 Speaker 1: stood up and all of a sudden, there he was, Uh, 658 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:07,360 Speaker 1: he's back, the real deal. No one knows why he 659 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:11,399 Speaker 1: came back exactly. Uh. The speculation is that he heard 660 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,480 Speaker 1: about this story because it traveled, like he said, kind 661 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:17,000 Speaker 1: of throughout you know, this region of Europe, and that 662 00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:20,440 Speaker 1: he was like, wait a minute, Uh, I'm a jerk 663 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:23,960 Speaker 1: and I'm not gonna let this stand, right, So he 664 00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:27,200 Speaker 1: he showed up like almost the last minute that he 665 00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:29,080 Speaker 1: could have. I'm sure he's showed up. Later they would 666 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 1: have reopened the case, but they hadn't yet ruled, but 667 00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:34,120 Speaker 1: they were about to rule in our notes favor, like 668 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,400 Speaker 1: the gable is up and essentially and this guy shows 669 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:41,080 Speaker 1: up and says, wait, I am the real Martin Gere basically, 670 00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,240 Speaker 1: and they treated him like he was potentially an imposter. 671 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:48,440 Speaker 1: First two they took him into custody. They questioned him separately, 672 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,319 Speaker 1: and they questioned him and they questioned our note on 673 00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:55,120 Speaker 1: the same old memories um, and both of them responded 674 00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:58,000 Speaker 1: like equally. Well. So the judges are like, oh my god, 675 00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:01,280 Speaker 1: what is going on here. They've never had a case 676 00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:04,760 Speaker 1: like this before. But the thing that I think clinched 677 00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,400 Speaker 1: everything is when when he came to the court, when 678 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,400 Speaker 1: he was presented in court, his family all recognized and 679 00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:12,560 Speaker 1: his sisters all said, oh my god, we were wrong. 680 00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:16,040 Speaker 1: This guy is the realist, our real brother, and then 681 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:22,120 Speaker 1: Bertron said, she gulped very heavily, was maybe heard to 682 00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,200 Speaker 1: say under her breath, well, I guess the jig is up, 683 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:28,120 Speaker 1: and threw herself at the feet of Martin Garret and said, 684 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,480 Speaker 1: I have been duped. I'm so sorry. I can't believe 685 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:34,440 Speaker 1: that this impostor got me, but I was fooled. Please 686 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:38,160 Speaker 1: forgive me. Yeah, I was desperate. I wanted my husband 687 00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:41,880 Speaker 1: back and this guy tricked me. And I was willing 688 00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:45,000 Speaker 1: to overlook the differences because I wanted you back so bad, 689 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:49,120 Speaker 1: my dear Martin. And uh, it's really interesting, he said. 690 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:51,680 Speaker 1: He was not well. Two things. First of all, during 691 00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,719 Speaker 1: all this are no was like he kept up that 692 00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:58,000 Speaker 1: con man thing and like went on the attack against Martin, 693 00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,839 Speaker 1: you know, like you're the impostor in a big, big way, 694 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:04,560 Speaker 1: which really helped um. But then Martin was basically, you know, 695 00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,279 Speaker 1: as far as Pertran goes, he said, lead and this 696 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,200 Speaker 1: is a shortened quote, but leave aside these tears. The 697 00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:12,759 Speaker 1: wife ought to know her husband. No one is to 698 00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:16,920 Speaker 1: blame but you. Yeah, so he wasn't having it. No, 699 00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:21,600 Speaker 1: he was not having it, and um, the judges even said, well, 700 00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:24,879 Speaker 1: hey man, maybe uh have a little heart, like you're 701 00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:28,840 Speaker 1: the one who left her eight years ago, and Martin said, silence, 702 00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,799 Speaker 1: that is not a crime, and the judges were like, oh, 703 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:34,640 Speaker 1: that's true, it's not a crime. So you just go 704 00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:36,600 Speaker 1: ahead and keep being a jerk. But we just wanted 705 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:40,160 Speaker 1: to put one in on your wife's behalf. But um, 706 00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,319 Speaker 1: she got off. She did not. The judges did not 707 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:45,759 Speaker 1: rule against her. They just they determined that she had 708 00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:49,719 Speaker 1: been duped and that the entire blame was was squarely 709 00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:52,480 Speaker 1: on the shoulders of our no do till who would 710 00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:55,879 Speaker 1: now yes, be sentenced to death right. And not only 711 00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:58,200 Speaker 1: was she let off, but they were very kind to 712 00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:03,160 Speaker 1: the daughter that she had with Martin initially because technically, 713 00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:05,440 Speaker 1: as far as the law was concerned, that would make 714 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:09,200 Speaker 1: her a bastard. Are not Martin, but are no right? 715 00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:12,359 Speaker 1: I'm confused. Um, that would make her a bastard, which 716 00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:16,120 Speaker 1: meants she couldn't get inheritance and stuff like that. But 717 00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:18,680 Speaker 1: they said no, at the time, she thought it was 718 00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:21,239 Speaker 1: her husband, so we're gonna make an exception here. So 719 00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,160 Speaker 1: they really did her a couple of favors. But when 720 00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:25,799 Speaker 1: it came to our No, they really didn't know what 721 00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:28,760 Speaker 1: descendance because they had never done anything like this before. 722 00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:31,840 Speaker 1: So they said, well, I guess let's kind of go 723 00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:35,239 Speaker 1: with what the other people were saying. Let's um, let's 724 00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:38,560 Speaker 1: kill you, but we'll just hang you and burn your body. 725 00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:42,120 Speaker 1: We won't quarter you and behead you, right right. I 726 00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:44,799 Speaker 1: also saw that he was sentenced to to um be 727 00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:49,319 Speaker 1: hanged while barefoot and bareheaded, and I cannot for life 728 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,279 Speaker 1: and we find what the problem was with that. I 729 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,960 Speaker 1: think it was just an insult maybe, but probably like 730 00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:57,359 Speaker 1: see his face, yeah, I guess, But also you see 731 00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:01,160 Speaker 1: his ugly feet too. Yeah, well it's his feet that 732 00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:04,120 Speaker 1: are smaller now. And maybe it's also more you need 733 00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:07,959 Speaker 1: to look upon the people that you have betrayed, right, Yeah, 734 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:11,239 Speaker 1: that's a good one. That's good. So um he he 735 00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:14,359 Speaker 1: his sentence was carried out and already got um and 736 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:16,960 Speaker 1: they actually built the gallows in front of Martin Gere's 737 00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:20,839 Speaker 1: house just to give him like a really great view 738 00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,600 Speaker 1: of the whole thing or something like that. Um, he 739 00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:26,120 Speaker 1: could he could keep working until the last minute making 740 00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:27,719 Speaker 1: tiles and then come out and be like all right, 741 00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:31,880 Speaker 1: let's go and our note was was marched through town. 742 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:36,560 Speaker 1: Um and he finally now he was like, okay, I'm 743 00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,240 Speaker 1: just gonna take full credit for this and admitted everything, 744 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:42,200 Speaker 1: didn't He Yeah, but you guys like me right right. 745 00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,080 Speaker 1: But he's like, a good job. I got to you 746 00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:49,960 Speaker 1: guys so good. Yeah, pretty much. He commended the judges 747 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:53,319 Speaker 1: for their work. Uh. He walked through town with the 748 00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:55,160 Speaker 1: news around his neck, as you know, they made him 749 00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:58,240 Speaker 1: carry his own news around his neck. And I think 750 00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:03,759 Speaker 1: at the end appealed to Martin like, hey, be nice 751 00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:06,560 Speaker 1: to your wife, dude, like I fooled her. She's a 752 00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:08,680 Speaker 1: woman of honor, Like, don't take this out on her. 753 00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:12,000 Speaker 1: Which was pretty great because he could have out of 754 00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:15,360 Speaker 1: spide or out of whatever he he could have like 755 00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:17,759 Speaker 1: out at her or even not said anything, but he 756 00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:21,520 Speaker 1: from to the very end he declared that she had 757 00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:24,239 Speaker 1: no idea and had nothing to do with it. And 758 00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,680 Speaker 1: if you go through you know Natalie's emon Davis's lends, 759 00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,160 Speaker 1: that was a really loving gesture and it reminds you 760 00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:34,560 Speaker 1: of like these two were probably like deeply in love 761 00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:38,319 Speaker 1: with one another, and and also like it's no short 762 00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:40,360 Speaker 1: it's no small thing, even like in the time of 763 00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:43,120 Speaker 1: very high infant mortality rates. Chuck that they lost a 764 00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:46,880 Speaker 1: child together and that surely bonded them even further. So 765 00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:50,920 Speaker 1: like the loss that was created at the the return 766 00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:55,239 Speaker 1: of Martin Gare with this marriage is actual happy, but 767 00:44:55,480 --> 00:45:00,880 Speaker 1: impostor and illegitimate marriage was torn apart by thegitimate version. 768 00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:03,520 Speaker 1: But the but how legitimate was it? You know what 769 00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:07,319 Speaker 1: I'm saying. If it was that unhappy like this, this man, 770 00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:10,759 Speaker 1: the real man, managed to interlope into something even more 771 00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:15,160 Speaker 1: real than what he had created with his own wife. Yeah, 772 00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:17,680 Speaker 1: that's a very confusing statement, but I totally get it. 773 00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:19,920 Speaker 1: And it also makes it really sad that he that 774 00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:23,000 Speaker 1: Arnold was was executed, and I'm sure bar Tryan had 775 00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:27,759 Speaker 1: to watch and pretend like she was happy about it. Yeah. Uh, No, 776 00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,800 Speaker 1: one really knows what happened in the end to Bertrand 777 00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:34,520 Speaker 1: and Martin, the real Martin. Not a lot of details, 778 00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:36,520 Speaker 1: but they do know that there were three more sons. 779 00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:40,920 Speaker 1: But you know, I don't necessarily means I don't think 780 00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:44,239 Speaker 1: that necessarily means a reconciled we're happy they this was 781 00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:46,600 Speaker 1: the sixteenth century. He could have forced himself upon her 782 00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:48,279 Speaker 1: by all I know. You know, I guess, but they 783 00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:50,880 Speaker 1: did stay together, and I'm sure he could have gotten 784 00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:54,080 Speaker 1: a divorce even in Catholic French law at the time. 785 00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:58,600 Speaker 1: But that so his the illegitimate daughter ur Node and 786 00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:02,600 Speaker 1: Bertrand's daughter, she went to live with the very uncle 787 00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:05,879 Speaker 1: that our note had said what he had never seen 788 00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:08,960 Speaker 1: him in his life on the stand. Oh really, yeah, 789 00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:12,080 Speaker 1: that's that's who went and took care of her. And Chuck. 790 00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:15,839 Speaker 1: Our version of the movie ends, I think with um 791 00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:20,480 Speaker 1: little Bernard growing up a little bit and saying, uncle, 792 00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:24,200 Speaker 1: can you tell me about my dad? And uncle? And 793 00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:27,280 Speaker 1: Bernard start walking back to the house from the barn 794 00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:30,600 Speaker 1: and the uncle says, kid, you wouldn't believe it if 795 00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:36,920 Speaker 1: I tried. That's great. Does she think perfect ending? Okay? Yeah, 796 00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:39,600 Speaker 1: So since Chuck said perfect ending, I think that means 797 00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:44,040 Speaker 1: that it's time for a listener mail. Uh. You know 798 00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:45,600 Speaker 1: what in lieu of listener mail, we do this a 799 00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:49,120 Speaker 1: couple of times of year when we rarely ask for 800 00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:52,319 Speaker 1: support in helping to spread the word. Even here in 801 00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:56,280 Speaker 1: year thirteen. Uh, we still want to grow the stuff 802 00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:59,560 Speaker 1: you should know, audience and make sure people are tuning in. 803 00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:02,640 Speaker 1: So uh, tell a friend or a neighbor or a 804 00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:05,520 Speaker 1: family member about Stuff you Should Know, if you would 805 00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:08,240 Speaker 1: and review and rate us on iTunes because that always 806 00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:13,120 Speaker 1: helps iTunes, Spotify, wherever you find podcasts, wherever you find podcasts. 807 00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:15,799 Speaker 1: We always appreciate it. This is the show that grew 808 00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:18,680 Speaker 1: very organically because of this kind of thing many years ago, 809 00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:20,920 Speaker 1: and we, uh, we don't ask for it much, but 810 00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:24,680 Speaker 1: we continue to count on that for growth. Yes, So 811 00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,480 Speaker 1: thank you to everybody who's ever rated or reviewed us, 812 00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:29,880 Speaker 1: and thank you just for listening to We appreciate you 813 00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:35,520 Speaker 1: guys listening even if you don't lift a finger. Amen. Yeah. Uh, Well, 814 00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:37,880 Speaker 1: since Chuck said amen, that's the end of this episode, 815 00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:41,000 Speaker 1: which I think I've already done. I'm losing my mind. 816 00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:43,080 Speaker 1: And if you want to get in touch with us, 817 00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:46,920 Speaker 1: you can send us an email to Stuff Podcast at 818 00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:52,440 Speaker 1: iHeart radio dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a 819 00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:55,840 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts my heart Radio, 820 00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:59,040 Speaker 1: visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 821 00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:00,480 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.