WEBVTT - What was the Skeleton Army? 0:00:00.800 --> 0:00:02.920 Hey, everybody, we want to let you know that we 0:00:02.960 --> 0:00:07.280 are doing our traditional Pacific Northwest Swing for our live 0:00:07.360 --> 0:00:11.320 show next year, in fact, the end of January next year, 0:00:11.480 --> 0:00:12.600 very early next year. 0:00:12.600 --> 0:00:16.000 And we're starting out in Seattle, Washington on January twenty 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:19.319 fourth at the Paramount Theater. It's huge, that's right, and 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:23.040 then on to Portland on January twenty fifth at Revolution Hall, 0:00:23.239 --> 0:00:25.360 the place we always are. It's kind of our home 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:28.160 away from home in Portland. And then we're gonna wrap 0:00:28.200 --> 0:00:30.800 it all up at the thing that started the Pacific 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:33.760 Northwest Tour in the first place all those years back. 0:00:34.200 --> 0:00:37.240 SF Sketch Fest will be at the Sydney Goldstein Theater 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:40.520 on Friday, January twenty sixth, right, Chuck, that's right. 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:42.600 And remember you can go to stuff youshould Know dot 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:45.280 com click on tours in order to get to the 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:48.360 correct ticket link or go to the venue page only. 0:00:48.680 --> 0:00:50.159 Do not go to scalper sites. 0:00:50.360 --> 0:00:52.520 That's right, and we'll see you guys in January. 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:59.320 Okay, welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:01:05.200 --> 0:01:07.280 Hey you, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:09.920 there's Chuck and well I was gonna say Jerry's here, 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:14.200 but that would be a dirty, filthy lie. True, it's here, 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:15.440 it's you and me, chuck. 0:01:16.640 --> 0:01:18.480 Yeah, it's about to say just like the old days. 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:21.760 But Jerry was around from the beginning. I wasn't around 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:23.080 for the beginning, man. 0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:28.280 So I guess this is a periodical situation we find 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:30.560 ourselves in, just like the periodical situation. 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:35.160 Can I say a couple of quick things here? 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:36.679 Yes. 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:43.000 First of all, I want to congratulate listener Corey Wegner 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:46.000 because this topic is from Corey. 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:47.600 Nice way to go, Corey. 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:51.640 Yeah, listener suggestion, which is great. And also want to 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:57.040 officially welcome mister Gibson Bryant into the family, the new puppy. 0:01:57.560 --> 0:01:58.639 Oh yeah, he's cute. 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:05.000 He's Gibson is a was being fostered through the Lifeline 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:07.400 organization that we work with a lot here in Atlanta, 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:12.400 and foster mom Rachel was just wonderful. And Gibson's a 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:16.640 little coonhound shepherd mix and he's awesome mm hm. And 0:02:16.720 --> 0:02:18.560 it's great. So far, so good. He's just that he 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:20.359 and the cats they gotta they gotta work it out. 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:26.000 So far it's not great. Oh no, so it just 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:28.440 takes a little time. I figure, you know, a week 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:32.200 or two. Usually is as based on like when we've 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:36.320 dog sat other dogs, because the cats love dogs, are dogs. 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:38.320 But like a new dog comes in and they're like. 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:43.160 Yeah, they gotta he has to prove himself to them. 0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:45.440 Yeah, they just gotta. You know, they gotta work it out. 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:47.839 It'll take a little time. But he's a very sweet boy. 0:02:48.800 --> 0:02:50.000 He's fitting right in. 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:52.880 He looks like it. I guess you've posted pictures on 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:54.360 your Instagram page. 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:59.480 Uh, yeah, Gibson's on there. Uh, Chuck the podcaster if 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:02.320 you want to check out this handsome little leggy boy. 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:06.000 Nice. Well, welcome Gibson. Congratulations. 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:06.600 Yeah. 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:09.160 To the stuff you should know family, the stuff you 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:13.880 should know army. I see where this is going. It is. 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:15.959 I normally would have just left it at yes, the 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:19.720 stuff you should know family. But the reason the stuff 0:03:19.720 --> 0:03:21.680 you should know army ties into this because we're talking 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:25.680 about armies, but fake armies. When believe it or not, 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:27.720 the stuff you should know army is a fake army. 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:30.640 Oh really, there's not a lot. 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:34.720 Of like international conflict or killing or shooting of machine 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:36.600 guns with the stuff you should know armies. So yes, 0:03:36.640 --> 0:03:37.960 I would say it's a fake army. 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:41.120 Well, what's the very definition of army? I don't even know. 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:44.920 A group that engages in international conflicts and kills and 0:03:44.920 --> 0:03:46.160 shoots machine guns. 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:49.520 Actually, well, no, it can be a large number of 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:55.880 people organized for a purpose, like an army of photographers. 0:03:55.000 --> 0:03:57.840 I guess, so I think those are called gaggles. 0:03:57.400 --> 0:04:00.600 Though, Okay, he's in the photograph first. 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:03.680 Okay, no offensemen. Of course, who are great people at 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:07.720 the stuff you should know? Army because of course the greatest. Yeah, 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:14.120 so there are other armies that are who's patterns of 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:17.159 killing are questionable at best, And that includes both the 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:20.760 Salvation Army, but less so the Skeleton Army, because if 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:23.839 any of the groups I've just mentioned just now bore 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:26.080 the closest resemblance to an army, it would be the 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:28.160 Skeleton Army probably. 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:29.960 And this is when I had not even heard of 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:35.440 until Cory Wegner sent this in same and so yeah, 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:39.280 I just thought we should dive in a little bit 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:40.960 on the Salvation Army first, probably right. 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:43.440 Yeah, I'm sure people are like, well, guys, what are 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:46.040 you talking about with the Salvation Army? Just wait, hold 0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:46.960 your horses please. 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:50.320 Yeah, you've probably heard of the Salvation Army. They are, 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:53.920 I mean, they're an international organization at this point, right. 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:59.800 Yes, they have been doing it since the eighteen seventies, 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:06.760 believe late eighteen seventies, and their mission is to basically 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:10.160 combat poverty where it's at, like they go to where 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:12.720 poverty is at, and apparently in the United States alone 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:15.920 they serve twenty three million people a year, so they're 0:05:15.960 --> 0:05:18.840 doing some significant work. And I don't want to walk 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:22.320 past the fact that they're also a pretty controversial organization, 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:28.040 especially today. They're a Christian organization, a Protestant Christian organization 0:05:28.120 --> 0:05:34.440 at its core from their founding, so they have sometimes 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:41.640 unfriendly views or have held unfriendly views towards LGBTQ plus community. 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:44.560 And now they've kind of revised it to say like, yeah, 0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:46.880 we don't mind, just don't tell us that you're gay. 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:49.520 You can come work with us anytime you want. And 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:52.039 that's not quite enough. But at the same time, there's 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:55.880 people who are on the conservative Christian right who are like, 0:05:56.040 --> 0:05:59.200 that's too far. So the Salvation Army finds itself in 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:02.599 a very ticklish pause right now, and I just that 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:05.560 doesn't have anything to do with this particular episode, but 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:08.440 I think it'd be kind of disingenuous to just not 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:09.640 mention that at all. 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:13.400 Yeah, they were founded by a gentleman named George Booth. 0:06:13.839 --> 0:06:16.359 He was born in England and Nottingham in eighteen twenty 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:22.040 nine and was a Methodist preacher at first and was 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:25.480 you know, the picture I get of George Booth from 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:28.480 kind of reading up on him is that he kind 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:30.719 of from the start was a bit of a rabble 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:34.400 rouser within the church as far as, like, you know, 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:38.360 he was into street preaching. He was frustrated with the 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:42.640 sort of formalities of the church, the hierarchies of the church. 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:46.360 Probably felt like, you know, the church isn't helping the 0:06:46.440 --> 0:06:49.039 people that are most in need. Was maybe a little 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:54.279 too disconnected from poverty and like the real people out 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:57.000 on the streets, and so that was sort of his 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:00.880 It seems like he was charged from the like within 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:04.520 himself to do something bigger than just be a standard 0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:05.360 Methodist preacher. 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:09.039 Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I get the impression you kind of 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:12.280 touched on it that he probably viewed the church as 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:16.960 an institution as really detached from the people who needed 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:20.800 it's helped most. So he started an organization. He decided 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:23.560 to kind of go help people where they're at. So 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:28.120 he started street preaching, apparently based on American revivalists of 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:32.320 the early nineteenth century, and like he would just stand 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:34.560 on the street corner and preach, and so too would 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:38.960 his wife. This is a time where if you were 0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:42.160 super religious like this and you said women can preach too, 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:45.720 and let's go help the poor directly. That was deeply 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:49.880 progressive at the time in England. England was so ridiculously 0:07:49.920 --> 0:07:54.800 stodgy conservative that I read about a magazine that in 0:07:54.880 --> 0:08:00.600 its inaugural edition promised that it would do nothing to 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:04.440 to help along this morbid desire for change, that they 0:08:04.440 --> 0:08:06.320 were just going to keep things exactly the way that 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:09.280 they were and that's what the establishment wanted. People like 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:12.240 George Boother like, that's not working for a whole, huge 0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:13.480 segment of society. 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:17.880 Yeah, his wife, Catherine Mumford when they married, played a 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:20.320 big part, played a big part in this whole story. Actually, 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:23.640 so you can kind of put a no, don't put 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:25.800 a pin in her. She's there. 0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:28.600 I can the skeleton army putting a pin on her. 0:08:28.960 --> 0:08:31.680 No pens or maybe flinging a dead rat her way. 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:35.440 So in eighteen as a story goes. At least in 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:39.680 eighteen seventy eight, he was dictating a letter and he said, 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:44.720 the Christian Mission is a volunteer army, capital C, capital M. 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:47.440 And then he said no, no, no, strike that and 0:08:47.520 --> 0:08:51.240 perhaps struck it himself and crossed out volunteer and wrote 0:08:51.240 --> 0:08:56.000 down Salvation a Salvation Army, And that was sort of 0:08:56.600 --> 0:09:00.480 you know, Salvation Army is so ubiquitous, especially on Christmas 0:09:00.520 --> 0:09:04.120 time in the United States when they you will people 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:06.880 I think generally sort of associate Salvation Army with either 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:11.400 dropping off clothes and toys that you don't want at 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:15.400 a Salvation Army store, or buying things from a Salvation 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:20.000 Army store, or around Christmas when they have Santa claus 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:23.600 is ringing that bell with that kettle outside and they 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:26.400 are asking people to donate their spare change or what 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:26.800 have you. 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:31.040 Yes, And if you know, by Christmas time you get 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:33.400 annoyed at that ringing of the bell that you hear 0:09:33.440 --> 0:09:36.600 all the time, count your lucky stars that you weren't 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:40.880 born in England in the eighteen seventies, because you would 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:44.360 have been super annoyed by the Salvation Army at that time. 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:47.760 Yeah. Absolutely, And that was sort of my deal with 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:50.400 the Salvation Army. That's how I knew them, and I 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:53.120 knew they did, you know, obviously a lot of charitable works. 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:55.520 But I didn't really ever stop to think about the 0:09:55.520 --> 0:10:01.960 whole army thing, the military aspect, because when I earlier said, 0:10:01.960 --> 0:10:03.960 like an army can be just a collection of people, 0:10:04.440 --> 0:10:06.280 that wasn't how they meant it. Like they meant it 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:08.559 as in, you know, not we're going to take up arms. 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:11.840 But they gave themselves, they wore uniforms, they gave themselves 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:17.280 military ranks. Booth named himself the General, and it became like, 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:20.720 I think their newspaper was called the War Cry. Their 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:23.319 initiation creed were called the Articles of War. So they 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:27.000 really sort of, I don't want to say, leaned into. 0:10:27.120 --> 0:10:28.719 I'm really trying to stop. 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:32.080 Saying that they were army forward. 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:35.400 Yeah, they were very army forward in a sort of 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:40.120 militaristic sense, but again not like hey, we're gonna, you know, 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:43.000 start a real war. But they were just like we're 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:45.960 warriors for Christ. Basically. 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:48.439 Yeah, to be initiated, you had to kill a man 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:51.480 with your bare hands. They were pretty serious about the 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:53.960 army thing. Yeah, But the reason that they were so 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:55.880 into the army. That was part of the zeitgeist at 0:10:55.920 --> 0:11:00.560 the time. This is the Victorian Age, the English at 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:03.680 its peak at the time, and the English Empire got 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:06.480 that way because of the military. So the military is 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:11.440 highly regarded, so it kind of made sense to kind 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:15.400 of go with that. It'd be like today, Oh boy, 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:20.360 it'd be like fashioning yourself after the swifties. If you 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:24.240 were founding like a new rescue mission organization, I would 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:27.560 messle them. No, you would, you would not. So he 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:33.120 had he established this in pretty short order. He started 0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:37.080 to use the Salvation Army to just it was set 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:41.280 up to achieve his aims. And his aims we've kind 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:43.559 of touched on a little bit, but they're pretty straightforward. 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:47.000 The biggest one really is if you want to help 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:50.439 poor people, go to the poor people and help them directly. 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:53.440 That's how you help poor people. That's just what you 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:55.560 have to do. You have to get your hands dirty. 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:58.319 As it was, that was pretty much the foundation of 0:11:58.920 --> 0:12:01.240 the Salvation Army and it can tell. It's a big 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:02.320 part of it still today. 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:08.760 Yeah, absolutely, which is great. Their mantra was soup soap salvation. 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:12.600 In other words, you know, help feed the poor, help 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:15.240 I mean soap. I don't think they literally meant to 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:19.760 help clean them, but they may have just sort of to. 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:23.920 I think that sort of stood for lift people out 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:27.560 of poverty and and also bring them to Christ. I 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:29.360 mean that was a big part of it. We can't 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:32.520 ignore that. And as who say, what. 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:33.280 Bring them to? Who? 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:35.600 Christ? Jesus Christ? 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:36.920 Oh, oh Jesus Christ. 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:41.800 I got to do you think I met Jimmy Christ, Billy, 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:46.080 I don't think so. I think Christ would be run 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:47.320 out of town on a rail. 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:50.000 House pronounced people would say Christ these days? Right? 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:51.840 Sure? Sure? 0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:53.439 I mean that that's got to be a last name. 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:54.839 See h R I S T. 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:58.120 Yes. If we have any listeners out there, who that's 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:00.439 your last name and you go by Christ, please right in. 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:02.320 We want to hear all about your life. 0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:04.720 Yeah, especially if it's Jimmy Christ. I would love to 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:07.840 know you. And another big part is, especially as it 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:11.000 pertains to the Skeleton Army, who will learn about here 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:14.880 in a minute, is that alcohol is bad. They were 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:19.120 way way into the Temperance movement and alcohol was just 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:23.080 a big, big evil and that would factor really, really 0:13:23.120 --> 0:13:26.439 heavily into the goings on between the Salvation Army and 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:27.280 the Skeleton Army. 0:13:27.800 --> 0:13:31.280 Yes, they also well, like we said, women can preach. 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:35.600 That was very radical, very progressive at the time. And 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:38.520 they also were super into music. I don't I know, 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:41.800 I didn't see why. I guess General Booth himself was 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:45.920 particularly into music, because again, this whole, this whole organization 0:13:45.960 --> 0:13:48.959 seems like an extension of him and his wife as well. 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:53.880 I don't want to just call her that. Catherine. Yeah, yeah, 0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:57.040 Catherine's views as well. I think they kind of jibed 0:13:57.080 --> 0:13:57.920 really well together. 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:00.000 But they're into the same bands exactly. 0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:05.200 There was a quote that's often attributed to George Booth 0:14:05.880 --> 0:14:07.400 that may or may not have been said by him, 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:09.959 but it fits. It's why should the devil have all 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:13.160 the best tunes? And I'm pretty sure he was making 0:14:13.440 --> 0:14:15.319 a failed reference to Black. 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:21.520 Sabbath right and eventually Striper. No, he would have been 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:22.320 way into Striper. 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:25.920 I was reading about them the other day. I can't 0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:28.720 believe I didn't tell you this, did you? How far 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:31.520 did you follow them? When did you leave off from Striper? 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:37.320 When did I leave the Striper Army? Yesh? I you know, 0:14:37.440 --> 0:14:39.960 as I sort of transitioned out of going to church, 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:42.080 So that would have been like middle high school. 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:45.120 So they were still doing like the Black and Yellow. 0:14:45.200 --> 0:14:48.200 Yellow and Black Attack. Yes, I think that was the 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:50.480 name of one of their records. Yeah, I mean they 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:53.520 were still around. I think this was right before they 0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:56.440 had their They had a like a secular ballad hit. 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:01.480 Okay, yes, so that's yes. They they you transition and 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:03.760 shortly after that they transitioned, and they left all that 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:08.080 god stuff behind and released a couple of albums and 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:10.560 if they did not do very well, and I think 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:13.400 they were pretty surprised. They thought, well, we'll just go 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:18.359 more mainstream, and it didn't work. They were more successful 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:24.320 mainstream wise as a Christian Christian forward metal band than 0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:26.400 they were as like a regular metal band. 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:30.320 Yeah. The Sweet Brothers is that who they were? Yeah, 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:32.200 Michael and Matthew Sweet. 0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:34.880 Like Matthew Sweet, I want you to be my girlfriend, 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:35.600 Matthew Sweet. 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:38.480 No, in fact, maybe it wasn't Matthew. Maybe I'm conflating, 0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:40.080 but I know Michael Sweet was. 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:43.120 I think he was the singer, Okay, Michael Sweet and 0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:44.800 then I think the drummer was Jimmy. 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:49.920 Christ Actually, oh man, I remember some of those names 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:52.680 I don't remember, or maybe the drummer was the other brother. 0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:57.400 I remember he played sideways. Oh that's awesome, which is interesting. 0:15:57.680 --> 0:15:59.040 Do you still have the action figures? 0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:02.760 No, I don't know if I still have that record, 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:03.880 I'll have to look through my vinyl. 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:04.200 Yeah. 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:07.320 Yeah, I was into that for a little while. 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:10.560 Okay, well, at any rate, I don't Yeah, I just 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:12.720 I don't remember how I was reading about Stripper, but 0:16:12.800 --> 0:16:14.720 I was reading all about their career the other day. 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:15.080 I don't know. 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:17.440 How easy to fall into a Striper rabbit hole. 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:23.640 Yeah, so, yeah, they were into music. The thing is 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:26.800 is and they wanted to use music, not Striper. We're 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:29.920 talking back about the Salvation Army. Although they Striper wanted 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:31.960 to do the same thing. They wanted to use music 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:37.560 to get God's message across. Absolutely unlike Striper, they had 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:40.960 zero musical talent, but were very happy to be as 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:43.360 loud as possible. So you know the image you have 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:47.840 of like temperance people and like kind of old, like 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:51.160 goody two shoes Christians in the nineteenth century banging on 0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:55.080 a huge drum, singing songs about Jesus and all that. Sure, 0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:58.800 that is based in reality. That was a Salvation Army 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:03.520 and everyone who wasn't in the Salvation Army loathed them 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:03.960 for that. 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:07.320 Yeah, it was pretty annoying if you were enjoying a 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:09.800 pint in a pub and the Salvation Army came around. 0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:12.160 Yeah, because in addition to going to the poor, where 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:14.359 the poor were, they figured, if you want to save sinners, 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:16.520 go to where the sinners are. So they would storm 0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:19.440 into pubs and start singing religious hymns at the top 0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:22.680 of their lungs, banging drums like telling people they were 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:25.520 going to hell. And these people are just trying to unwind, 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:29.120 you know, after a hard day's work at the docks, 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:30.960 or who knows. 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:33.160 Well, they had no job and they were just getting loaded. 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:35.840 Yeah, or they're celebrating a promotion at the docks. I 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:37.760 don't know. The thing is they did not want to 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:40.400 hear that at the time, and even if you weren't 0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:42.280 in the pubs, just hearing them go down the street 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:46.360 preaching all day Sundays sometimes during the week too. They 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:50.639 really purposefully made a nuisance of themselves because they were 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:57.600 really assertive and hostile almost and shoving their message about 0:17:58.119 --> 0:18:01.320 salvation down everyone throat, whether they wanted to hear it 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:01.680 or not. 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:05.439 All right, I think that sets the stage time for 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:08.480 a break. Yes, for sure, all right, for sure, we'll 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:45.720 be right back after this, you bet, all right. So 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:49.600 the stage is set, the Salvation Army is firmly in place, 0:18:50.400 --> 0:18:53.960 and they are going around. Aside from doing great things 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:57.480 for the poor, they are going around and go into 0:18:57.520 --> 0:19:01.200 pubs and banging their pots and pans and their drums, 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:04.960 and they're singing all these religious songs and the people 0:19:05.720 --> 0:19:08.679 do not like it. So that is the sort of 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:12.920 the position that they're in at this point. So what 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:17.960 forms is what's called the Skeleton Army to literally combat 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:21.520 the Salvation Army. Ed helped us out with this one. 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:25.719 And there's I would argue that there aren't two origins. 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:28.679 There's one origin. But the sort of second part of 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:31.600 the origin story we'll get to. Is that fair to say? 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:33.800 It's fair but confusing? Sure? 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:38.439 All right. Well, the first, you know, basically how they 0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:40.960 formed is what we've been talking about. They were literally 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:46.000 just annoyed at the Salvation Army coming around telling them 0:19:46.040 --> 0:19:50.359 not to drink, singing songs and loudly preaching and disrupting 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:55.080 their pub time. And so the initial sort of response 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:58.959 was just jeering at them, won't you sit down and 0:19:59.000 --> 0:20:03.040 have a be that kind of thing, being very sarcastic, 0:20:03.520 --> 0:20:06.320 and then things started just to escalate, sort of little 0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:11.800 by little, because these were drunks basically, and when you're 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:14.560 someone engaging a drunk and telling them not to drink, 0:20:15.480 --> 0:20:17.640 that's not going to go over too well, and timpers 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:19.359 will genuinely flare at some point. 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:24.120 Yeah, for sure. I think we said the Salvation Army 0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:27.320 set itself up in eighteen seventy eight. By eighteen seventy nine, 0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:30.920 the first newspaper account of a clash between the Salvation 0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:33.919 Army and people who hated the Salvation Army made it 0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:38.320 into a newspaper. I think there was an incident in Liverpool, 0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:39.840 and this is not the first incident. This is just 0:20:39.920 --> 0:20:41.960 the first incident that got written up in the paper. 0:20:43.520 --> 0:20:46.040 And the reason it got written up is because there 0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:49.440 was a riot. A riot. People hated what the Salvation 0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:53.399 Army was doing so much that they would often trigger 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:58.560 riots whenever they started doing their marches, and they were 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:01.840 roundly blamed for this like at the time, as we'll see, 0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:03.679 it kind of came out differently in the end, but 0:21:04.640 --> 0:21:07.879 everyone blamed them for just existing and doing what they 0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:12.200 were doing. They felt that the Salvation Army was responsible 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:14.080 for the riots that the people who were against the 0:21:14.080 --> 0:21:17.960 Salvation Army would carry out when the Salvation Army came around. 0:21:18.520 --> 0:21:21.600 Yeah, exactly. So seventy nine, like you said, was the 0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:25.919 first noted one in Liverpool, and then you know, if 0:21:26.000 --> 0:21:31.359 you read contemporaneous accounts, which we did of the time, 0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:34.320 they just started popping up here and there. In March 0:21:34.359 --> 0:21:38.280 of eighty one in the East End of London there 0:21:38.280 --> 0:21:41.159 were some guys leaving a pub and they beat up 0:21:41.200 --> 0:21:45.199 a bunch of Salvation Army I guess what would they 0:21:45.240 --> 0:21:46.520 be called soldiers? 0:21:47.080 --> 0:21:47.800 Yeah, I think so. 0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:52.080 Okay. There were some Salvationist women which they were called 0:21:52.160 --> 0:21:57.639 Hallelujah lasses was a nickname, that were entrapped with some 0:21:57.800 --> 0:22:01.400 rope by the crowd. They were getting hot coals thrown 0:22:01.440 --> 0:22:04.239 at them, and this sort of played out how it 0:22:04.240 --> 0:22:06.960 played out in most places. Things got pretty ugly. When 0:22:06.960 --> 0:22:10.560 I joked about throwing dead rats at them, I wasn't kidding. 0:22:10.560 --> 0:22:12.760 That was a real thing that they did. Apparently dead 0:22:12.840 --> 0:22:15.400 rats and live cats in at least one instance. 0:22:15.600 --> 0:22:18.600 Yeah, there was another instance where there was a guy 0:22:18.600 --> 0:22:24.480 who was testifying during a Salvation Army meeting and forty 0:22:24.520 --> 0:22:28.720 people with chamber pots stormed the meeting and dumped urine 0:22:28.840 --> 0:22:32.679 all over the man. Yeah, that happened. They were in 0:22:32.720 --> 0:22:34.600