WEBVTT - Pete Tong 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:11.920 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 0:00:12.160 --> 0:00:17.840 My guest today is DJIT Big Clubs on Stage on 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:23.960 the Radio, d M entrepreneur Pete Tom Hi, Bob okay, Pete, 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:27.440 thank you. You're now doing these stage shows. You even 0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:32.000 sold out two old two's with Abisa Classics. Tell me 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:36.800 about that. Yeah, basically, it's um It's started by me 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:40.320 getting invited to curate a prom The Proms are a 0:00:40.360 --> 0:00:45.080 series of very famous season of classical concerts that have 0:00:45.120 --> 0:00:46.920 been running in the UK for well over a hundred 0:00:47.000 --> 0:00:49.680 years at the Royal Albert Hall, and they wanted to 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:52.640 do something a bit more contemporary. They were worried about 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:54.720 their audience kind of getting older and older and older, 0:00:54.720 --> 0:00:57.240 and they wanted to kind of engage with the younger demographics. 0:00:57.240 --> 0:00:59.960 So they reached out to BBC Radio One, where obvious 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:03.640 I've obviously been forever, and they said, you know, how 0:01:03.640 --> 0:01:06.040 about you guys curating you know, coming up with an 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:11.120 idea that might work as a classical concert. So they 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:12.839 asked me as a bit of a kind of veteran 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:16.160 broadcaster there, and it happened to be an anniversary of 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:18.280 of me taking Radio One down to a b through. 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:21.600 It was like the twentieth anniversary, I think, in so 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:24.680 we came up with this idea of um, you know, curate, 0:01:24.720 --> 0:01:28.360 you know, putting together a seventy minutes show. That was 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:32.640 the slot we were given. UM. And I thought, because 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:34.680 I've been there but not exactly that exact time here, 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:37.080 I thought the proms were outside of the problems inside 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:40.240 or the proms are predominantly inside the Royal Album Hall. 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:42.760 And they happened over the course of a month actually, 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:45.480 and it's pretty much every night, two shows a night, 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:48.680 and they might have done some think standalone things outside. 0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:52.280 So anyway, I've never done anything like this before. This 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:55.640 was definitely outside my skill set. UM. But I was 0:01:55.680 --> 0:01:58.760 introduced to Jules Buckley, who was a kind of contemporary 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:04.600 UM you know, UM orchestrator and conductor, and he worked 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:06.840 hand in hand with a with a kind of forward 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:11.160 thinking you know symphony orchestra called the Heritage Orchestra, and 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:13.800 they'd work with like the likes of the Basement Jackson 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:16.600 Goldie UM, someone that I was quite close to. So 0:02:17.480 --> 0:02:19.120 you know, we we you know, we had this blind 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:21.200 date on the phone and we talked about the idea 0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:25.000 and I I kind of got into it with him 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:27.520 how how it would work, and then I this, just 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:30.840 how long ago this was. This was January of the 0:02:30.919 --> 0:02:33.040 year we did it, and we had six months to 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:36.079 plan it. And I basically thought, you know, why don't 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:38.760 we play a minute of each one of like all 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:40.919 the greatest records of all time and you know, dance 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:44.560 records and the Betha classics. And he said that would 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:47.160 take me like five years to to not take for 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:49.760 the sixty five players in the orchestra. So we cut it. 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:52.880 I cut it down to like twenty tracks. I mixed 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:55.280 it together in my studio and I gave it to 0:02:55.400 --> 0:03:01.160 him and he started to, um, basically take these tracks 0:03:01.240 --> 0:03:03.400 from the original form and then work out how an 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:07.560 orchestra would play them, and um. The interesting thing was 0:03:07.600 --> 0:03:10.160 what was quite groundbreaking is I was able to get 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:13.400 him to mix tracks together, so we were going to 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:16.840 play everything live on stage, nothing on tape. Nothing. He 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:19.359 wasn't following any records I was playing or anything like that. 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:23.400 But we were able to do these segments, like fifteen 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:26.880 minutes segments where we worked through like five tunes, but 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:29.239 it would be seamless, and even with tempo changes and 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:32.040 everything like that. So we did this show on the 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:35.120 thirty first of July, I think it was twenty nine, 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:37.960 did July UM at the Royal Albert Hall. It was 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:39.720 an appointment. It was a one off thing that we 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:42.880 were going to do. But within about halfway through the 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:45.440 first song, five thousand people in the Royal Albert Hall 0:03:45.520 --> 0:03:49.800 stood up started going crazy clapping and we looked around 0:03:49.800 --> 0:03:52.040 at each other, went some some magics going on here. 0:03:52.040 --> 0:03:54.920 So we got to end at the show, went backstage. 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:56.680 It was like, oh my god, what just happened there 0:03:56.680 --> 0:04:00.240 because literally the entire audience didn't sit down for seventy minutes. 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:01.800 They just went mad, and we had we had kind 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:03.800 of down tempo, chill out moments in there as well, 0:04:03.800 --> 0:04:05.400 but they still stood up. Just to be clear, if 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:09.760 you only had seventeen minutes seventy seventy, excuse me. So 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:12.240 we got backstage and was like, oh my god, you know, 0:04:12.360 --> 0:04:14.160 like this was amazing. We've got to do it again. 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:17.880 But everything in terms of the proms and the BBC, 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:20.560 it was all kind of funded and underwritten, so it 0:04:20.640 --> 0:04:23.480 was like no nobody really ever got a bill um. 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:25.320 But so it took a while to plan how to 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:27.440 take this show out on the road and it took 0:04:27.480 --> 0:04:31.080 about eighteen months UM. But we announced some shows the 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:34.479 following March and we sold them out in a day 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:37.680 and we had one oh two on sale and we 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:40.920 worked out there as people don't know that's essentially yes, 0:04:40.920 --> 0:04:42.960 it's like it's like the big arenas here, like Staples 0:04:42.960 --> 0:04:45.000 Center or something like that, and we worked out there. 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:46.919 If we sold the lower bowl, we didn't know, like 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:49.960 eighteen months later what the demand would be like. UM, 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:51.800 but we sold it out. We sold the whole place 0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:53.040 out in a day, and then we were like, oh 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:54.560 my god, we got to do another one, but I 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:56.800 think Justin Bieber was playing the next day and like 0:04:57.279 --> 0:04:59.159 someone else the day before, so we couldn't get a 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:01.440 string of dates. But we ended up at the end 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:04.000 of sixteen with a with a show in Birmingham the 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:06.479 O two and then one match to all all arenas, 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:10.240 sold them all out. UM made a record that year 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:14.000 UM basically going back in the student into the Happy 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:17.760 Road studios actually, which was amazing, and we recorded the orchestra. 0:05:18.279 --> 0:05:21.360 We recorded that set with you know, we redid it, 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:24.479 UM did it as a proper record. UM. The album 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:26.839 came out went to number one went gold on the 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:28.720 pop chart. It was so we were off to an 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:31.560 amazing start and here we are UM at the end 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:34.200 of we just did nine arena shows in the UK, 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:38.480 including to two sold out oh two. So it's um, 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:41.240 it's it's me up on stage with with sixty five 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:47.120 incredible musicians and Jules Buckley playing a selection of you know, 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:52.080 electronic music, dance music that spans back years UM. And 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:54.440 for me, it adds. It was it was really about 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:57.400 adding gravitas to these compositions. I think in the in 0:05:57.440 --> 0:06:02.680 the annals of musical history, you know, dance music producers, DJs, 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:04.200 we have a bit of a chip on our shoulder 0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:06.840 because we're not taken seriously like the Rock and Roll 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:10.680 Hall of Fame and all that stuff. MS and and 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:12.760 it to me it was like, well, this music that 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:15.719 was made in Chicago, New York, Detroit, you know, in Berlin, 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:18.440 in London, all all over the world, you know wherever, 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:21.839 um we can show that you know this one finger 0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:25.200 wizardry that was done by these Detroit guys back in 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:27.680 the late eighties where they had a button on one 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:31.400 of the early Roland keyboards that says strings and they 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:34.200 played you know this incredible string part that we to 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:35.720 actually be able to go and do it with a 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:39.799 you know, a massive orchestra. Um. It just lifted people 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:42.200 and I think that's that was the magic of it. Okay, 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:46.279 So since there are no nothing on a hard drive, 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:49.040 we used to see tea what do you actually do 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:52.240 on stage? So basically um on the light. On the 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:55.880 live performance side, I'm I'm actually also playing along with him, 0:06:55.960 --> 0:06:58.240 so you'll see me up there with with a bunch 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:02.960 of turntables and sheen and some drum pads and basically 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:06.919 there there are elements like weighty kind of wishes and 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:09.960 bangs and electronica in a lot of these productions that 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:13.760 an orchestra can't play. So I'm often spinning in a 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:18.720 like a stem um of of some electronics that actually 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:22.280 the that they can't provide that kind of adds euphor 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:26.200 I'm adding kind of euphoria, and occasionally I'm adding um 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:31.160 extra um percussion hits and stuff like that, and then yeah, 0:07:31.760 --> 0:07:36.160 a lot of clapping. Okay, So what's the press? And 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:38.520 I'm kind of playing like the m M right right, 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:40.240 what's the press been like? Because you know there's so 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:42.320 much press in the UK and it can be vicious. 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:47.120 Now it's been it's been incredible. I mean I would say, um, 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:52.440 touch would um, it's been great. It's it it's I 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:54.560 tell you, I'll tell you what it is. It's it's 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:59.520 it's it's experiential. It's it's the orchestra. Is there a 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:02.120 back up? Is there? You know? Lee? Are there leasers? 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:04.920 What are you doing? Yeah? So on the there's a 0:08:05.040 --> 0:08:07.400 two versions of the show, the A list version, which 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:10.080 is the one we've just done through the arenas. Um, 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:13.440 we've built a pretty big production. It's it's it's the 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:16.880 idea is we take people to a Betha for one night. 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:19.000 You know, we either taken them back because they've got 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:21.080 great memories of it, or we're taking them there for 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:23.880 the first time because they've never been there. So, um, 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:26.960 we've built, it's evolved over the five years and it's 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:30.200 got a little bit more dense and layered as we've 0:08:30.200 --> 0:08:33.680 picked up material um and worked out what ideas work 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:37.320 and what ideas don't. So um, yeah, we what's going 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:40.880 on up on screen on on screen um compliments what 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:43.760 we're doing on stage. And as I said, not not 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:46.400 this year, but the year before. It starts with a plane, 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:48.840 you know, flying over the audience and we take you 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:50.880 to a bether for one night. And we've we've had 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:55.079 you know, departure boards up from the airport. We've done 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:59.000 all sorts of tricks and and and the show climax 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:03.440 is by this pretty special journey, um through the night 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:06.920 through a beether and then a bit and and dealt villa. Yeah, 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:10.560 the classic shot in a bee the old town um 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:13.680 rises up behind the orchestra and like it gives me 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:16.760 goose bumps talking about it. But that's like the emotional 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:19.720 like punch um. But we're always I'm always looking at 0:09:19.760 --> 0:09:22.200 I mean for the first you know here, I am 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:25.560 like in my sixtieth year. I've been deejaying pretty much 0:09:25.600 --> 0:09:29.320 since I was fourteen years old, and um, you know, 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:31.000 to be able to do this, I mean this, I 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:32.839 just didn't see this coming. You know, this was not 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:36.280 written in the book. You know. I always had a 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:39.360 day job to kind of compensate for my you know, 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:43.640 the way my DJ was going. And so it's it's 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:45.079 been fascinating so be able to be able to do 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:48.520 this stuff on that scale. Um, I'm learning a lot 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:50.280 and it's a lot of fun. And you know, you 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:53.760 see you you see the technology on stage that you know, 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:56.200 Metallic could take out or you know you two or 0:09:56.240 --> 0:09:59.520 Coldplay or Kanye or someone um where as deviling and 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:02.080 we I can, like a couple of years later after 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:04.800 they've done it, I can kind of afford it, so 0:10:04.840 --> 0:10:06.160 we can get a little bit of that. So we're 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:08.240 always like looking to push the envelope a bit in 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:12.000 terms of every year as the as the show goes on, 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:14.320 we we get a little bit more funding and we 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:18.640 can add another trick. Okay, so you are the driving 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:23.120 business force. It's basically your show. Well it's it's it's 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:25.079 my name at the top of the poster, but it's 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:27.520 a collaborative effort. It's I'm actually I'm talking about the 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:30.440 quick and I'm talking about the business end. I mean, 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:32.920 does everybody else you know the orchestra, They basically show 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:35.720 up when it's booked, But in terms of talking to 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:39.800 an agent, manager, etcetera. Picking out dates, is that all 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:43.800 fall on your head pretty much? I mean, um, there 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:46.080 there is a there is a little We formed the 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:49.160 company as a partnership which is me and Jules Buckley 0:10:49.280 --> 0:10:52.240 and um Chris Wheeler, who's the principle of the Heritage 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:56.120 Orchestra and my management company actually, so a lot of 0:10:56.160 --> 0:11:00.200 the everything else apart from the show tends to all 0:11:00.240 --> 0:11:03.920 on me and my management um. And when it gets 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:07.240 to actually doing the show then and all making making 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:09.839 the records, it's very much me and jewels um and 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:12.680 and yeah, yeah, the orchestra turn up to play at 0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:15.680 certain sessions. When it comes to actually doing the show, 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:19.559 obviously the orchestra part increases because we couldn't do it 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:22.720 without them. So and we have guests, you know, we 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:25.800 have a lot of guests come on. So we'll take guests, vocalists, 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:32.880 We've had, I mean, we've had um everyone from you know, 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:35.560 John like what I wanted to do because it's because 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:40.560 it's just it appealed initially to the kind of relapsed raver. 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:44.000 So it was it was quite that way if you 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:45.959 were an eight, if you were eight in the eighties 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:47.959 and you were going to like the clubs for the 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:50.200 first time in the raves, you know, all through the 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:52.199 kind of rise of the big clubs in the super 0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:55.040 clubs in the nineties in the UK. You know, you 0:11:55.679 --> 0:12:00.880 the interesting thing is by two, you know, the late um, 0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:04.200 you never stopped loving the music. You you didn't really 0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:06.160 want to grow older, but you've got families, you've got jobs, 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:07.319 you have got older. You don't want to go out 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:08.959 till four in the morning anymore, but you do come 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:13.480 and see peakes On and relive this this thing. Um so. 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:16.720 But I but being with my A and R head On, 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:19.480 it was like, I've never really looked backwards and done 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:22.160 celebratory greatest hits things, so I've always been trying to 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:24.680 push the envelope forward. So for me it was very important. 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:27.880 You know, we'll have classic artists back, but I wanted 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:32.320 to have young contemporary artists performing these old songs. So 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:34.760 from the get go we had John Newman, Um, we 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:38.920 had Air Maginade hartnett Um, you know, but I have 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:41.560 had Candy Statin, I have had Seal. We just had 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:44.800 Maxi Jazz from Faith Fus come out and join us 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:47.240 performing his own song, which was kind of took the 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:49.040 thing to a whole new level where you start having 0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:52.800 the original artists whose music we are playing then come 0:12:52.840 --> 0:12:55.280 back and perform with us. So um so it's a 0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:57.439 it's a mix, you know, okay some of this so 0:12:57.600 --> 0:12:59.520 but we had but you know, Becky Hills almost joint. 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:02.839 You know, she's a massive kind of contemporary singer in 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:05.599 the UK and she's done every tour. Beverley Night is 0:13:05.600 --> 0:13:07.400 a veteran of you know who went on to be 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:10.280 a big star in the theater. Actually she's she's come 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:12.320 back and done it with us. But but then there's 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:14.880 always be the young ones as well. So okay, so 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:19.160 any shows booked for the future, well, the next UK 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:22.520 tour is already on sale, so that's. Um, We've got 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:24.400 one big date at the isle A White Festival next 0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:27.439 year talking about glaston Read that might or might not happen, 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:29.720 and then what our arena run again, He's already on 0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:32.520 sale for December. We did do it at the Hollywood 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:36.520 Bowl here a few years ago. Um, it was very 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:40.000 expensive thing to do. Um, and we haven't quite yet 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:41.640 worked out the model of how to bring it back 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:45.120 to America. That's challenge. But let's just say forgetting the economics, 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:48.960 working out the below the line stuff. Just talking about 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:52.440 the audience, do you think there is an arena audience 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:55.000 other than in Los Angeles and New York for this show? 0:13:56.200 --> 0:14:00.000 We're we're were were working on it now, I think, um, 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:04.600 I my gut feels it's more like an installation that 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:09.920 maybe it's a celebration of the American electronics story from 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:11.840 the late nineties all the way through to two now, 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:14.400 and maybe it's home is more like something like Vegas. 0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:18.520 That's having said that, you know, there is this um 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:21.480 you know, like k CRW do at the Bowl, you 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:24.400 know where they do that kind of it's funded by 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:27.560 that kind of season ticket model where people bring their picnics. 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:30.760 I mean I got educated to this a couple of 0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:32.840 years ago that there is actually a circuit of those 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:36.120 places like the Hollywood Bowl. You know. Mark Geiger was 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:38.760 telling me, um that you can do that. You know, 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:41.720 probably could do nine, ten, twelve of those around the country. 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:43.640 So we're looking at that as well. Well. I guess 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:46.600 what I'm asking is most people agree that this sound 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:50.160 started in Detroit, but it is never once it was 0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:52.720 picked up by the UK and Europe, it is never 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:57.200 really faded. We're here, it's going up and down. So today, 0:14:57.320 --> 0:14:59.920 if you because you're a world wide guy, what is 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:05.440 the level of the music in the varying territories? Um, well, 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:10.040 I think it went from zero to a hundred over 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:12.840 the course of these the you know from from the 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:16.160 late eighties. Obviously in the the UK it peaked quickest. 0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:20.880 It became mainstream, it moved the needle um in the charts, 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:22.720 in the pop charts, it moved the needle in the 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:25.040 major label business, and then it kind of started to 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:28.000 kind of collapse in the two thousand's and the rest 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:29.600 of the world started to pick up on it. You know, 0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:32.120 the French got stronger, the Swedes got stronger, the Germans 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:35.960 got stronger, and Low and Behold by coming into two 0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:40.000 you know, mid two thousand, five, six, seven eight e 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:42.840 d M. You know, the roots of DUM kicked in 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:46.400 the US and then the whole financial value moved over here. 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:48.960 So you know that again in major labels had hits 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:53.360 with Vichy and David Gettum Vegascot on board and paid 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:56.640 money that was astronomical. It was bigger than any fee 0:15:56.720 --> 0:15:58.720 anyone had ever seen before, anyone in the world. So 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:01.800 we've gone through and that's peaked now but and and 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:05.720 and Vegas is still there, but it's not all consuming 0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:08.720 like it was between two thousand and eight and two 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:12.960 thousand and twelve thirteen. So UM, you know, only the 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:15.600 strong survive now in Vegas, Like the biggest pop stars 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:19.080 are the most current pop stars in the electronic world. 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:23.240 But the and but the other right, the the other 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:27.160 rising value right now is um all the underground guys 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:30.400 that kind of that became superstars in a Betha are 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:33.040 now traveling around the world and they've got a slightly 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:35.720 different model. They're not really having hits, um, but they 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:38.360 are bringing huge value to their live shows from an 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:41.480 experiential point of view, and especially on the V I 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:43.600 P and the table scene. So that's all moved from 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:47.120 gathering around, you know, kind of David Getter to two 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:49.320 starting to gather around like Tail of Us and Solomon 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:52.600 and Black Coffee and people like that. So that's quite interesting. Um. 0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:56.200 But I think the general thing with my record company 0:16:56.200 --> 0:17:01.000 hat on and my agency hat on is that, um, 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:03.840 it's it's actually on the rise again. It's actually the 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:07.639 the the the economic value around electronic dance music is 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:12.280 going back up again and on a global level, and 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:15.080 it's time for a new generation. And it's some it's 0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:18.440 pretty positive. Okay, So you're the major labels by the 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:21.080 way back into dance music big time, you know, rightly 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:23.920 or wrong. The the investment is flying back into dance 0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:26.679 music because for the for the first time now the 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:29.679 obviously the streaming numbers are actually getting to a significant 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:32.760 level where you know, the pouts are bigger again. So I, 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:36.280 you know, you know my history with Roger Ane's London 0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:38.560 Records f r R, I was, I was there at 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:40.640 the beginning and where you know where we were having 0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:42.960 bidding wars in the nineties, you know, a hundred grand 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:45.320 for this, two hundred ground for that. It went crazy 0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:47.600 and that, and you're seeing that again now in the 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:51.400 last twelve to eighteen months that those numbers are back out. 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:54.119 There are again major labels are battling each other to 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:57.000 get the rights to you know, the MEDUSA record or 0:17:57.040 --> 0:17:59.360 you know, okay originally from the UK, but you live 0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:07.520 in l A now, yeah, how long? Um, numerous reasons. 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:12.119 One one, I already always had too many jobs and 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:14.479 there was never a good time. You know, there's never 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:16.879 a good time to emmigrade. I think when I was 0:18:16.920 --> 0:18:21.000 at London Records, UM, I had my first number one 0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:24.080 record in America because I had signed Shakespeare's sister. We 0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:27.240 had a record called Stay Um. London Records US had 0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:31.479 opened guy called Peter Copkey and it's still run by 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:33.639 Roger Rams, right, Roger was running the whole thing, but 0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:36.280 Copy was the head of the US and Osman was 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:38.800 in the mix as well with him, and they were like, 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:41.800 you know, you're you're the future of the label. Come. 0:18:41.920 --> 0:18:44.080 You know, now is the time to come to America 0:18:44.600 --> 0:18:46.119 and you've got a number one records. That would never 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:48.439 be a better time. But I got onto Radio one. 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:51.920 I had my first child in so that kind of 0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:58.000 kai bosh that UM, and then I I got basically 0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:01.600 my my I got remarried. My my second wife used 0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:03.440 to live in l A. UM so she always wanted 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:06.040 to be American or that she's Brazilian, but she she 0:19:06.119 --> 0:19:07.520 was in that she lived in l A when I 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:10.159 met her and UM, and then got deeper into this 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:13.640 WMME relationship, and you know, the center WM at least 0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:16.399 back then was Los Angeles, and I thought, you know, 0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:18.320 with the d M blowing up in America, and it's like, 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:20.040 if I was going to make the most of the opportunity, 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:23.520 now was the time. So it was. We went through it. 0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:25.000 We only I told my mom I was coming for 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:27.800 a year. How many kids? How many kids do you have? 0:19:28.280 --> 0:19:31.480 I've got four and two step kids, so six between us, okay, 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:33.200 and how many were the first wife family of the 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:37.320 second wife. They're only two ways to only two lives, okay. 0:19:37.320 --> 0:19:41.160 So the first wife three kids, okay, So the first 0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:43.199 three three kids. In the second one you have one 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:46.040 together and you have two step kids. So what you 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:48.600 know if you had your first kid in What are 0:19:48.640 --> 0:19:51.840 your kids up to? They're all in music actually amazingly 0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:54.640 and I never really pushed them into it. Um, they've 0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:58.040 kind of done it by their own designs. And my eldest, 0:19:58.119 --> 0:20:00.879 Joe um, goes by an name of Joe Hurts as 0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:03.760 an artist, didn't take my name, which I quite thinks 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:07.680 quite cool. And he is kind of making futuristic kind 0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:11.840 of R and B soulful bit of electronic influence. Um, 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:14.600 he's doing pretty well. He's got good Spotify numbers, good 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:17.879 Apple numbers, and so he's he's doing that. He's writing, 0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:20.439 producing for other people and being an artist himself. And 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:23.240 he lives where he lives in London, and he is 0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:26.480 now here's the interesting. But he's managed by his sister 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:29.040 who's a couple of years younger. So my daughter as 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:32.240 a manager, and she she got an intern job at 0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:36.000 a sony label years ago and then just grew and 0:20:36.040 --> 0:20:38.480 grew and grew on her and another guy from the 0:20:38.560 --> 0:20:41.919 label ended up leaving and forming their own um label 0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:44.879 and management company and plugging company actually called Juice Box, 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:47.280 and they run events. So she's doing that. She DJs 0:20:47.320 --> 0:20:52.880 as well, and they've employed my younger he's twenty one, 0:20:53.040 --> 0:20:56.360 and now he's like running like training under her and 0:20:56.400 --> 0:20:58.719 doing loads of stuff as well. The three of them 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:01.600 work together. That's quite And does everybody get along? Yeah? 0:21:02.080 --> 0:21:03.880 I mean the first wife said the first wave ever 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:11.280 get remarried. No, that's okay. So uh, let's ask a 0:21:11.320 --> 0:21:15.679 general question for the uninformed. The uninformed looks at dance 0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:20.400 music and they hear all the different genres house, chill, 0:21:20.640 --> 0:21:22.640 I could go on and on. Can you do your 0:21:22.680 --> 0:21:28.679 best to explain those different genres? Yeah, how she can 0:21:28.760 --> 0:21:30.679 dance to chill? You can chill to have about that? 0:21:30.720 --> 0:21:33.359 Bob okay, I go that. But there are obviously a 0:21:33.400 --> 0:21:36.400 mob where there's deep house, there's a million other genres 0:21:36.400 --> 0:21:38.440 and subjects I got. I was always a little bit 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:42.240 um spiky about genres because they get they get mishandled, 0:21:42.280 --> 0:21:45.480 you know. So I don't know if it's if it's good, 0:21:45.480 --> 0:21:47.080 it's good. If you like it, you like it. I 0:21:47.400 --> 0:21:49.840 don't know, so, I mean, I guess you have to, 0:21:50.080 --> 0:21:53.000 you know, label stuff, but I don't like the next 0:21:53.080 --> 0:21:55.399 question is going to be what's what's happening next? No? No, 0:21:55.520 --> 0:21:58.040 actually that was not going to be the next question. 0:21:58.359 --> 0:22:00.679 If anything, I was going to go backward, and I 0:22:00.760 --> 0:22:03.640 ultimately will, but I guess I will ask a question 0:22:03.680 --> 0:22:08.600 a different way. Amongst our fans, are fans into the 0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:11.080 different genres? Where do you find that certain people are 0:22:11.119 --> 0:22:16.320 only into you know, drum and bass or chill or whatever. Um, 0:22:16.600 --> 0:22:19.560 drum and bass tends to be a more of a 0:22:20.000 --> 0:22:25.400 narrow thing. Um. Back in the day, you didn't used 0:22:25.440 --> 0:22:29.200 to um the drummer bassed crew were very locked into 0:22:29.200 --> 0:22:31.600 a certain thing. I mean, I I think things are 0:22:31.680 --> 0:22:34.720 changing now. I think um. I mean I come from 0:22:34.800 --> 0:22:38.040 time late eighties in the rave era and like going 0:22:38.080 --> 0:22:40.560 into the early nineties, we played a bit of everything 0:22:40.560 --> 0:22:43.000 and we're all our eyes all all the guys back then. 0:22:43.760 --> 0:22:46.080 Eyes were opened by those trips, early trips to a 0:22:46.080 --> 0:22:50.240 Betha where we saw a guy called Alfredo play all 0:22:50.359 --> 0:22:54.960 you know, Chicago House, Detroit House, Italio House, German house 0:22:55.000 --> 0:22:57.760 and Techno, and then he'd play in excess you know, 0:22:57.920 --> 0:23:00.800 need you tonight. It fights six in the morning with 0:23:00.800 --> 0:23:03.439 the sun rising, and everyone you know, like off their 0:23:03.480 --> 0:23:06.920 trolley and I was like, this is amazing. They used 0:23:06.920 --> 0:23:10.920 to play he'd played like the coolest most obscure underground record, 0:23:10.920 --> 0:23:14.399 and then he'd play Stockaching and Wortman's production of Mandy Smith, 0:23:14.440 --> 0:23:18.359 who was Bill Wyman's underage girlfriend. And we again it 0:23:18.440 --> 0:23:22.280 was like, this is the coolest thing ever. And Chris, 0:23:22.320 --> 0:23:25.320 you know, get another good example, you know, five underground 0:23:25.320 --> 0:23:29.159 records and then m Josephing Chris Rear. It's like and 0:23:29.200 --> 0:23:31.119 that was the blair E spirit. So we and we 0:23:31.200 --> 0:23:33.959 all came back to London and Manchester back then, and 0:23:34.000 --> 0:23:36.760 we also opened these clubs and we started doing the 0:23:36.800 --> 0:23:38.159 same thing. You know, we get to the end of 0:23:38.160 --> 0:23:40.240 the night and played depeche Mode or Chris Rear and 0:23:40.280 --> 0:23:42.760 it would be ironic, but it was really cool. So 0:23:42.800 --> 0:23:44.320 I like, you know, and we used to play a 0:23:44.320 --> 0:23:45.719 bit of jungle, and we used to play a bit 0:23:45.760 --> 0:23:49.399 of everything. And then something happened where everyone's got in 0:23:49.440 --> 0:23:51.560 their lanes and if you ever stepped out of your lane, 0:23:51.560 --> 0:23:54.439 you got smacked. Over the head. So, but I'd like 0:23:54.520 --> 0:23:58.200 to think now with a younger audience that have kind 0:23:58.200 --> 0:24:01.080 of grown up on Spotify and Apple streaming services, as 0:24:01.119 --> 0:24:03.199 they start to step into clubs for the first time 0:24:03.200 --> 0:24:05.160 because they're old enough and if they're curious to come 0:24:05.840 --> 0:24:07.880 that they are actually they're a little bit more all 0:24:07.920 --> 0:24:10.639 over the place because they've had because they didn't have 0:24:10.680 --> 0:24:15.200 to buy the records exactly. I'm more I'm more concerned 0:24:15.240 --> 0:24:18.840 about when I was thinking coming up here. My pet 0:24:18.920 --> 0:24:21.680 subject really at the moment is like everyone's talking about 0:24:22.640 --> 0:24:25.439 monetization and music, and like, you know, especially in the 0:24:25.480 --> 0:24:28.000 electronic area, there's there's been a couple of great podcasts 0:24:28.000 --> 0:24:32.600 on Resident Advisor about, um, you know, the fact that 0:24:32.600 --> 0:24:36.080 the you know, these super these underground DJs or commercial 0:24:36.160 --> 0:24:39.720 DJs are getting you know, tens of thousands, some cases 0:24:39.800 --> 0:24:43.680 hundreds of thousands of dollars and pounds and euros to play, 0:24:43.720 --> 0:24:47.040 but the music they're playing, the musicians whose music they're 0:24:47.040 --> 0:24:50.680 playing are getting nothing, you know. Um, And that's there's 0:24:50.680 --> 0:24:55.080 a real disparity there. Um. So that's that's a that's 0:24:55.080 --> 0:24:56.760 a big issue out there in the electronic world. But 0:24:56.800 --> 0:24:58.880 also and something that we're going to talk about big 0:24:58.920 --> 0:25:00.959 time at I MS this year here. But I think, um, 0:25:01.160 --> 0:25:03.080 the other thing for me is like, where is the 0:25:03.480 --> 0:25:06.119 future of the curators? You know, I come from you. 0:25:06.280 --> 0:25:12.760 My hero was John Peel. Um my my um my role. 0:25:12.800 --> 0:25:15.920 I guess some you know, five plus years at Radio 0:25:15.960 --> 0:25:17.960 one has been as you know, that's been an amazing 0:25:17.960 --> 0:25:21.040 platform to be a curator. But in the world of 0:25:21.119 --> 0:25:25.840 streaming and where the streaming services are basically the curators 0:25:25.840 --> 0:25:28.520 and they seem to run popularity contest is where did 0:25:28.600 --> 0:25:31.680 where does a curator in the next decade find his voice, 0:25:31.720 --> 0:25:34.360 you know, to move the needles. There's so many questions 0:25:34.359 --> 0:25:36.560 and streaming and we can address us. Let's go back 0:25:36.560 --> 0:25:40.639 to the beginning. So you're in your sixtieth year, so 0:25:40.920 --> 0:25:44.040 you're born in nineteen sixty. Where they grow up? Um, 0:25:44.080 --> 0:25:46.960 I grew up in Kent. I was born at the 0:25:47.000 --> 0:25:52.560 same hospital as Mick Jagger a few years later. Not yeah, 0:25:52.600 --> 0:25:54.879 a few years later, but he reckons we're related by 0:25:54.880 --> 0:25:58.360 the way. I finally bumped into him after all these years. Okay, 0:25:58.400 --> 0:26:00.920 so you're in Kent. How many kids in the family, 0:26:01.440 --> 0:26:05.359 just me and my brother, So it was too boys, um, 0:26:05.400 --> 0:26:08.200 and we grew up in a We were born in Dartford, 0:26:08.200 --> 0:26:09.560 which is a town where we grew up in a 0:26:09.640 --> 0:26:13.320 village in the countryside. Um, and we I went to 0:26:13.359 --> 0:26:15.880 boarding school and I was super young. Um, my dad 0:26:15.960 --> 0:26:19.399 was busy, My mom was stressed. What did your father 0:26:19.440 --> 0:26:21.960 do for a living? He was a well in English, 0:26:22.880 --> 0:26:24.879 it's a funny name for it, called a turf accountant. 0:26:24.880 --> 0:26:26.399 But he was a bookie, so he was in the 0:26:26.440 --> 0:26:29.439 betting business. So he was have to ask because when 0:26:29.480 --> 0:26:32.199 I first encountered your name, I thought it was a 0:26:32.200 --> 0:26:35.480 stage name. But it's really your name, it's really my 0:26:35.600 --> 0:26:37.480 name tongue, and it's not I'm not My dad didn't 0:26:37.520 --> 0:26:40.359 run Chinese laundries. Would you have any idea where the 0:26:40.359 --> 0:26:44.000 derivation is? Yeah, he he um. He did a search 0:26:44.720 --> 0:26:47.480 and he's passed away now, but he told me that 0:26:47.520 --> 0:26:50.000 it was actually it was all down to Saxon Anglo 0:26:50.040 --> 0:26:53.479 Saxon Viking blood and there was a lot of tongs 0:26:53.520 --> 0:26:56.879 in Scandinavia with like spelt like tongue or with a 0:26:56.960 --> 0:27:00.879 name on the end, and it wasn't really Chinese at all. So, um, 0:27:00.920 --> 0:27:03.720 with all these adverts you see now, like for DNA 0:27:03.840 --> 0:27:06.840 and like the family tree or should My wife said 0:27:06.880 --> 0:27:08.160 to me the other night we should do it again. 0:27:08.760 --> 0:27:09.960 I don't want to do it. I don't want to 0:27:10.000 --> 0:27:11.879 find out that I'm gonna die. Never mind all the 0:27:11.920 --> 0:27:15.879 crazy relatives. But your brother is older or younger? Younger 0:27:15.920 --> 0:27:17.800 four years younger? And what is he up to now? 0:27:18.640 --> 0:27:21.280 He's he's in the UK still and he Um, he 0:27:21.440 --> 0:27:25.919 works for a cable company putting cables under the ocean, 0:27:26.280 --> 0:27:31.480 keeping us connected. Okay. And how close are you to him? Um? 0:27:31.520 --> 0:27:34.440 Not that close? I mean, but close because we've always 0:27:34.480 --> 0:27:37.520 come together, but it's not like we speak every day 0:27:37.560 --> 0:27:42.879 now okay. And does he ever ask you for money? 0:27:43.720 --> 0:27:48.960 Personal question? Um? I can answer you because he hasn't. No, No, 0:27:49.119 --> 0:27:51.119 he has. And have you just given him money because 0:27:51.160 --> 0:27:55.119 you were successful? No? Okay? How about your kids? Your 0:27:55.200 --> 0:27:56.960 kids will sounding like they're doing. Are you the type 0:27:56.960 --> 0:27:59.000 who says, hey, they have to find their own way? 0:27:59.040 --> 0:28:00.760 Are you going to support them till they find the 0:28:00.800 --> 0:28:02.760 wrong way? Or how does that work? A bit of both. 0:28:02.800 --> 0:28:05.119 I think I've done a lot of learning in life, um. 0:28:05.960 --> 0:28:07.959 And I've done a lot of work on myself on that. 0:28:08.040 --> 0:28:10.840 And I think you're going through divorces really really tough, 0:28:11.560 --> 0:28:15.440 and as the man who leaves the house. You know, Um, 0:28:15.840 --> 0:28:18.760 you're torn all over the place in terms of doing 0:28:18.800 --> 0:28:20.919 the right thing and the kind of guilt trip and 0:28:20.960 --> 0:28:23.480 then you know, what do you do when you're with them? 0:28:23.480 --> 0:28:25.720 You know, and you you kind of over you definitely 0:28:25.800 --> 0:28:28.040 overcompensate at the start. But we've got a really good 0:28:28.080 --> 0:28:30.080 balance now and there and they are growing ups now, 0:28:30.160 --> 0:28:32.119 so it's you know, okay, but are they still on 0:28:32.160 --> 0:28:37.560 the pay roll? Um no, No, one of them actually 0:28:37.680 --> 0:28:40.120 actually does work for me a bit. So my oldest 0:28:40.160 --> 0:28:42.960 does actually great that they find the wrong way I stop. No, 0:28:43.120 --> 0:28:47.200 they don't know, they all, especially my daughter, Um, she's 0:28:47.240 --> 0:28:50.360 quite entrepreneurial. But my son actually does work for the 0:28:50.440 --> 0:28:53.520 BBC a year. He helps actually behind the scenes on 0:28:53.560 --> 0:28:56.040 my show in terms of some of the engineering and 0:28:56.040 --> 0:28:58.400 stuff like that. So so you go away to school 0:28:58.440 --> 0:29:01.520 what they call on the UK public school? How old 0:29:01.560 --> 0:29:04.600 are you when you go super young? Like ridiculously was 0:29:04.720 --> 0:29:06.280 I was like seven or eight or something and I 0:29:06.280 --> 0:29:08.280 went to boarding school and I can't I kind of 0:29:08.280 --> 0:29:10.640 blanked out a lot of it. I have fond memories 0:29:10.640 --> 0:29:13.440 of some of it, and then apparently I was very unhappy. 0:29:13.480 --> 0:29:17.000 And how long did you stay there UM till I 0:29:17.040 --> 0:29:19.280 was old enough to get the train on my own. 0:29:19.480 --> 0:29:24.480 And then so I think till I was about thirteen. Well, 0:29:24.480 --> 0:29:26.800 then I was old enough to get I could there 0:29:26.840 --> 0:29:29.320 was because it actually wasn't that far away. Some kids 0:29:29.480 --> 0:29:32.360 bored because you know, they board in Scotland because they 0:29:32.400 --> 0:29:36.719 live on the south coast. But I actually lived very closely, 0:29:36.880 --> 0:29:40.400 you know, twenty miles from the school, maybe not even 0:29:40.440 --> 0:29:43.920 that UM. So I was a weekend border so I 0:29:43.920 --> 0:29:46.200 would board during the week and go home at weekends 0:29:46.320 --> 0:29:49.320 most of the time. But I was so when I 0:29:49.360 --> 0:29:51.480 got to twelve or thirteen, I was I was old 0:29:51.600 --> 0:29:54.240 enough to do the train journey on my own. Until 0:29:54.280 --> 0:29:57.160 did you stay at that school? Yeah, all the way 0:29:57.200 --> 0:30:01.160 through till um what they called a levels eighteen. Then 0:30:01.160 --> 0:30:04.480 I never went to UNI. I was straight into UM. 0:30:04.560 --> 0:30:07.080 You know, I was a pretty studious student until I 0:30:07.160 --> 0:30:10.280 was sixteen. I got all my exams, and then I 0:30:10.320 --> 0:30:14.000 was definitely a more distracted UM student in the last 0:30:14.000 --> 0:30:17.040 two years because my music thing was starting to happen. Okay, 0:30:17.120 --> 0:30:20.280 your father was a terrific account you were, I know, 0:30:20.880 --> 0:30:22.560 I like terrif ac count I've read before, but I 0:30:22.560 --> 0:30:25.000 wouldn't been able to pull out my reran. Were you 0:30:25.040 --> 0:30:27.880 were aware of that? Yeah? I mean I was actually 0:30:27.960 --> 0:30:30.920 my best subject at school was maths. So he I 0:30:30.920 --> 0:30:35.640 would work in the back office of his bookmakers, which 0:30:35.680 --> 0:30:38.320 is all legal in the UK, well as long as 0:30:38.320 --> 0:30:40.600 I wasn't out front. Yeah, so I was being a 0:30:40.680 --> 0:30:44.880 bookie in the UK legal where you had you had 0:30:44.880 --> 0:30:47.120 tracked bookies and you had shot books. You have to 0:30:47.160 --> 0:30:49.239 have different licenses, so you could be a bookie at 0:30:49.280 --> 0:30:52.040 the track for the dogs or the horses. Um, and 0:30:52.120 --> 0:30:53.760 that was a certain type of license. And my dad 0:30:53.800 --> 0:30:57.000 didn't do that. He didn't he didn't do it for horses. 0:30:57.040 --> 0:30:59.760 He did do it a little bit for dogs racing 0:30:59.760 --> 0:31:03.920 gray hounds, but um, I I would go so on 0:31:03.960 --> 0:31:06.360 the big race days like the Derby and the Grand National, 0:31:06.720 --> 0:31:10.320 um and the Choltenham Gold Club, I would often go 0:31:10.400 --> 0:31:12.760 in and work at the back office, probably when I 0:31:12.800 --> 0:31:16.560 was thirteen fourteen, and I'd have to you know, work 0:31:16.560 --> 0:31:19.120 out you know, someone bet fifty quid at five to 0:31:19.160 --> 0:31:23.160 four and I do the bet calculations. So really, well, 0:31:23.160 --> 0:31:25.880 how many people were working for him, I don't know, 0:31:25.960 --> 0:31:29.240 five or six. Yeah, he had like three shops and 0:31:30.480 --> 0:31:33.720 but it put me off gambling forever for like the 0:31:33.720 --> 0:31:36.720 next question, it did because it was it did him 0:31:36.760 --> 0:31:39.120 in basically, I mean he was There was an era 0:31:39.280 --> 0:31:42.520 in the in um so we're talking about the late 0:31:42.560 --> 0:31:46.360 seventies where the independent bookmaker could still make a good living. 0:31:46.520 --> 0:31:51.560 But um, the the the chains or the conglomerates started 0:31:51.600 --> 0:31:53.640 to rise. So there was there was two big companies. 0:31:53.640 --> 0:31:55.080 One was called lab Brooks and the other one was 0:31:55.160 --> 0:31:57.880 Joe Coral. And the fact that they had, you know, 0:31:57.960 --> 0:32:01.440 once you start having thirty shops, forty shops, a hundred 0:32:01.440 --> 0:32:04.920 shops in the UK, you could just offset your you know, 0:32:04.960 --> 0:32:07.400 you just balanced the box where it's really really hard 0:32:07.440 --> 0:32:10.280 for a guy with three shops to have a bad. Um. 0:32:10.440 --> 0:32:13.320 Grand National where the favorite one, you know, and it 0:32:13.360 --> 0:32:15.080 was always it was red There was his famous horse 0:32:15.080 --> 0:32:17.120 called red Rum. And my mom will always and she's 0:32:17.120 --> 0:32:20.720 still alive, um and whenever it gets the Grand National 0:32:20.800 --> 0:32:22.640 Day and I call her from here and say what 0:32:22.680 --> 0:32:24.560 we're gonna it was it's the one time I'll still 0:32:24.600 --> 0:32:26.640 have a bet because I wanted to get my daughter 0:32:26.920 --> 0:32:29.400 into it just to see, just to show her what 0:32:29.440 --> 0:32:32.680 we used to do. And I rang her this year 0:32:32.920 --> 0:32:35.120 just before the race started and she's still you know, 0:32:35.200 --> 0:32:40.000 she's nine now, um, but she's still. I can't do that, 0:32:40.040 --> 0:32:41.920 you know. It's like it's that's that's what he brought 0:32:41.920 --> 0:32:52.640 your dad to his knees, that bloody race. Okay, so 0:32:53.480 --> 0:32:57.360 he literally set the yards himself. I guess so. I 0:32:57.400 --> 0:33:00.400 mean I think there was some kind I don't know, 0:33:00.440 --> 0:33:02.400 I forgot now it worked. There was some kind of 0:33:02.440 --> 0:33:05.800 correlation with what was going on on the track because 0:33:06.000 --> 0:33:09.080 back then on TV you'd see the odds at the 0:33:09.080 --> 0:33:11.880 course and I think, you know, they it was literally 0:33:12.040 --> 0:33:14.400 people going around going, you know, has this horse got 0:33:14.400 --> 0:33:16.480 all its shoes on? Is this one got his tail on? 0:33:16.640 --> 0:33:19.760 You know? Is the jockey drunk? Is you know? Is 0:33:20.360 --> 0:33:22.760 there information? You know that when we're not knowing? And 0:33:22.800 --> 0:33:24.680 that would that would how someone would go around and 0:33:24.760 --> 0:33:26.360 right the odds and then he would have to look 0:33:26.400 --> 0:33:28.720 at those odds that were on TV because it was 0:33:28.760 --> 0:33:33.120 before betfair or internet or anything like that, and he would, Um, 0:33:33.160 --> 0:33:35.520 I guess, yeah, he could. He could give an extra 0:33:35.560 --> 0:33:37.520 point or take a point away. Here they all do 0:33:37.560 --> 0:33:40.240 what he wanted to do. So how did he do it? 0:33:40.360 --> 0:33:43.080 In the end? It ended horribly. It was some he's 0:33:43.080 --> 0:33:45.400 started having to bet. He was a gambler as well, 0:33:45.440 --> 0:33:47.800 so he would he would take a load of bets 0:33:47.800 --> 0:33:49.720 on and then have to kind of bet against the 0:33:49.760 --> 0:33:53.360 book to books, and it just it started to unravel. 0:33:53.400 --> 0:33:56.600 In the end, he was a very proud man and 0:33:56.600 --> 0:33:59.840 he sold he sold out to um two lab Brooks 0:34:00.160 --> 0:34:02.880 or Joke Corals, I think it was Labrook's, and then 0:34:02.920 --> 0:34:06.160 he went um. He never really recovered from that. Actually 0:34:06.640 --> 0:34:10.520 he went into he then him and my mom bought 0:34:10.520 --> 0:34:13.600 a hotel and they went into the hotel business. Just 0:34:13.640 --> 0:34:17.440 one big, big, quite big hotel in the town Gravesend, 0:34:18.120 --> 0:34:20.680 and um, but the idea of serving other people and 0:34:20.719 --> 0:34:22.520 just he just got very depressed about it, and he 0:34:22.560 --> 0:34:25.440 was he was drinking too much. So okay, did he 0:34:25.520 --> 0:34:28.319 sell out whichever one of the two couples it was 0:34:28.719 --> 0:34:32.040 because he saw the future coming or because he'd lost 0:34:32.080 --> 0:34:35.799 so much Okay, but there was enough money to buy 0:34:35.840 --> 0:34:38.719 this hotel. Yeah yeah. And how long did they own 0:34:38.760 --> 0:34:45.160 the hotel? Um? He he died in nineties three, so 0:34:45.480 --> 0:34:49.120 um we probably had another year like we were winding, 0:34:49.200 --> 0:34:51.799 had to wind it all up, so from from yeah, 0:34:52.200 --> 0:34:56.440 late seventies to four probably and other than him disliking it, 0:34:56.480 --> 0:34:58.840 was a good business. I think it was good for 0:34:58.880 --> 0:35:01.120 a while. And he's grand his father did it and 0:35:01.160 --> 0:35:03.200 it was so I think from the you know, after 0:35:03.239 --> 0:35:05.799 the Second World War there was probably twenty years where 0:35:05.840 --> 0:35:09.440 that was a very good business to be in. Yeah, okay, 0:35:09.920 --> 0:35:16.799 So what exactly put you off gambling? It's just it's weird. 0:35:16.840 --> 0:35:19.000 I just there's not I could. I mean, I've worked 0:35:19.000 --> 0:35:23.000 in Vegas so often I've gotten it's just weird, you know, 0:35:23.040 --> 0:35:27.240 like people talk about addiction or like, you know, people 0:35:27.280 --> 0:35:30.719 always want to drink. It's just weird. It's it's not 0:35:30.920 --> 0:35:33.640 it's gambling to me. It's just like I don't it's 0:35:33.719 --> 0:35:36.799 like in my DNA that there's fear. There's somewhere I might. 0:35:36.880 --> 0:35:39.200 I might. I'm quite curious about blackjack, and I might 0:35:39.200 --> 0:35:42.040 occasionally go and throw, you know, you know, throw something 0:35:42.120 --> 0:35:43.920 on a roulette table, just for a laugh, like I'm 0:35:43.960 --> 0:35:46.480 talking about like once every ten years. But I got no, 0:35:46.640 --> 0:35:48.799 I just don't have any. The only time I ever 0:35:48.840 --> 0:35:52.200 bet is when I go to football matches in the UK, 0:35:52.640 --> 0:35:55.240 and if I'm lucky enough to be invited to someone's box, 0:35:55.920 --> 0:35:58.120 they bring when you're having dinner, they bring around a 0:35:58.200 --> 0:36:00.560 sheet and you actually bet on the result. So I 0:36:00.600 --> 0:36:02.960 actually do that because it's football and I'm mad. I'm 0:36:03.000 --> 0:36:06.239 mad about football. Um, but there's no I just don't know. 0:36:06.320 --> 0:36:08.600 It's just I think watching my dad obviously when from 0:36:08.640 --> 0:36:10.239 when I was very young at seeing what it did 0:36:10.280 --> 0:36:14.560 to him. Um, it's obviously just closed off that door. 0:36:15.040 --> 0:36:19.480 And what about alcohol and drugs, Um, well, yeah, I 0:36:19.480 --> 0:36:23.400 mean I've I've had periods of um of drinking not drinking. 0:36:23.440 --> 0:36:26.360 So I think I think everything in you know, moderation 0:36:26.440 --> 0:36:29.080 really Okay, So it's not that well I'm not sure. 0:36:29.200 --> 0:36:32.200 It's not that you don't have an addictive personality. It's 0:36:32.239 --> 0:36:36.360 like gambling is the thing too itself. Push that aside. Okay. 0:36:36.680 --> 0:36:39.839 So if you are going to school and it's late 0:36:39.920 --> 0:36:45.480 seventies from the US perspective, this is pub rock, Graham 0:36:45.560 --> 0:36:50.680 Parker in the Room or whatever. Okay, wretch a little earlier, 0:36:50.719 --> 0:36:54.080 like ninety two. Okay, So when did you get into music? 0:36:55.800 --> 0:36:58.520 Very early age? I was My dad did get a 0:36:58.560 --> 0:37:01.160 lot of albums and single and um, so I just 0:37:01.440 --> 0:37:03.400 he was there was always records around the house and 0:37:03.440 --> 0:37:05.480 I just became So he did get a lot. Yeah, 0:37:05.480 --> 0:37:07.600 he was into music, so he bought a lot of albums, 0:37:07.640 --> 0:37:09.680 and he had quite an eclectic taste. There would be 0:37:09.680 --> 0:37:12.360 the Beatles and the Stones, but there would be um, 0:37:12.480 --> 0:37:15.040 then there'd be the crooners like Dean Martin and Frank Snatcher. 0:37:15.080 --> 0:37:18.640 But then there'd be Santana and like more exotic kind 0:37:18.640 --> 0:37:20.279 of music, and like a lot of he'd buy like 0:37:20.400 --> 0:37:23.560 a lot of like African drumming albums and stuff like that. 0:37:24.040 --> 0:37:28.080 So he was always had these mad gatefold sleeves. Um 0:37:28.239 --> 0:37:30.200 so I and I've still got some of them actually. 0:37:30.239 --> 0:37:33.120 So there was music always around. I was always banging 0:37:33.160 --> 0:37:36.200 things as a kid apparently, and then um, you know, 0:37:36.200 --> 0:37:37.920 I had my piano lessons and stuff like that, but 0:37:38.040 --> 0:37:40.839 rum drums is what I settled on. Okay, So how 0:37:40.880 --> 0:37:45.040 long did you play the piano? Well, on and off 0:37:45.120 --> 0:37:48.680 a few years, but but it never really stuck with 0:37:49.120 --> 0:37:54.480 which I gratefully greatly with regret lessons. How long did 0:37:54.480 --> 0:38:00.640 you take drum lessons or played drums? Probably from eleven 0:38:00.680 --> 0:38:03.640 or twelve till till DJing really kicked in, which was 0:38:03.680 --> 0:38:06.080 about fourteen fifteen. So I had a drum kit, a 0:38:06.120 --> 0:38:08.040 Ludwig drum kit that you got me, and I used 0:38:08.040 --> 0:38:09.680 to sit in our front room with the headphones on, 0:38:10.160 --> 0:38:12.600 trying to play, trying to follow along with Keith Moon 0:38:12.640 --> 0:38:15.160 and John Bonham. Okay, did you ever the first thing 0:38:15.160 --> 0:38:17.239 I could ever play when we formed a school band 0:38:17.280 --> 0:38:19.000 and we used to do Smoke in the Water by 0:38:19.080 --> 0:38:21.880 Deep Purple and we could do hold your Head Up 0:38:21.880 --> 0:38:24.839 by Argent. Of course, Um, I could play. I could 0:38:24.880 --> 0:38:28.719 play almost every instrument on that song, and so yeah, 0:38:28.719 --> 0:38:30.480 it was it was fun times. And we used to 0:38:31.200 --> 0:38:33.359 we did some school concerts and we did a like 0:38:33.760 --> 0:38:38.200 village hall concert and but one day I saw a 0:38:38.320 --> 0:38:41.560 DJ at a school disco for the first time with 0:38:41.719 --> 0:38:45.680 two belt drive turntables a little old at the time. 0:38:45.960 --> 0:38:51.920 This is like, okay, so that's nineteen seventy five. Okay, 0:38:52.280 --> 0:38:54.840 that was not happening in the US and the early 0:38:54.960 --> 0:38:58.920 seventies we had a DJ. Well, this was not cool. 0:38:59.000 --> 0:39:02.720 This was like wedding. So we had to turn tables 0:39:02.719 --> 0:39:05.080 just so he didn't have to worry about a break 0:39:05.320 --> 0:39:07.680 or was he mixing the two together and I'm mixing it? 0:39:08.120 --> 0:39:11.280 Just just two turntables and like what looked like a house, 0:39:11.640 --> 0:39:16.480 you know, a lampphraids taken from his house, and um, yeah, 0:39:16.480 --> 0:39:18.520 it was a microphone. He was like, now and now 0:39:18.640 --> 0:39:20.800 this is number two in the charts. It's like, you know, 0:39:21.000 --> 0:39:24.440 and this was like a school dance. Was your school 0:39:24.520 --> 0:39:27.799 boys only or girls too? It was boys only at 0:39:27.840 --> 0:39:30.319 that stage, and just when I left in the sixth 0:39:30.360 --> 0:39:33.640 form they started to introduce girls finally. So um, this 0:39:33.680 --> 0:39:36.560 would have been just in the in the middle school 0:39:36.560 --> 0:39:39.160 that what we called the O level years the GCSC 0:39:39.440 --> 0:39:44.400 is so um, I can't remember exactly. Okay, so you 0:39:44.480 --> 0:39:46.880 see the guy with the two belt driven turn tables, 0:39:46.960 --> 0:39:48.560 and then I just thought, well, my dad's got loads 0:39:48.560 --> 0:39:50.759 of records. This makes a much better noise than I'm 0:39:50.800 --> 0:39:53.040 making with my band. I see much more in control 0:39:53.080 --> 0:39:55.240 with that. So firstly it was me and a friend 0:39:55.239 --> 0:39:58.440 of mine and my school friend. So we did a 0:39:58.440 --> 0:40:00.920 bit of a double act of like what what what 0:40:01.320 --> 0:40:05.239 you decide you're going to do it? There's no rehearsal 0:40:05.280 --> 0:40:08.880 because you think you know everything kind of yeah yeah, 0:40:08.920 --> 0:40:10.560 So then when do you say, I'm gonna go out 0:40:10.560 --> 0:40:13.320 and get gigs? Well, then I took over the school 0:40:13.320 --> 0:40:15.319 this go so I can't remember. We had one at 0:40:15.360 --> 0:40:17.640 the end of every term. So what do you said? 0:40:17.640 --> 0:40:20.719 It said hiring somebody you know? Volunteer yourself, because I 0:40:20.760 --> 0:40:23.239 think there was a student's union school something like are 0:40:23.280 --> 0:40:26.759 you that type of person? Entrepreneurial like that. I would 0:40:26.920 --> 0:40:28.720 never have used that word at the time, but I 0:40:28.760 --> 0:40:31.680 clearly was more than I give myself credit for so. 0:40:32.160 --> 0:40:36.400 And back then being a DJ meant having the gear, 0:40:36.960 --> 0:40:39.000 so like you could be a DJ if you had 0:40:39.040 --> 0:40:40.840 the gear. So it was all about getting the gear. 0:40:41.440 --> 0:40:44.160 So with a bit of money that my dad gave 0:40:44.239 --> 0:40:47.399 me and like scrapping together stuff, I managed to get. 0:40:47.920 --> 0:40:50.120 You know, you get the two speakers, you get an amplifier, 0:40:50.160 --> 0:40:51.920 you get the turn tables and it and it went 0:40:51.960 --> 0:40:54.520 from there and my my formative years as a DJ 0:40:55.239 --> 0:40:57.600 was all about being a mobile DJ, because which meant 0:40:57.640 --> 0:40:59.200 you had the gear. And then I had I had 0:40:59.239 --> 0:41:04.319 the transit van quite early. But you said it was 0:41:04.360 --> 0:41:07.719 a duo, a guy called Nigel Burns, and I lost 0:41:07.760 --> 0:41:11.080 track with him thirty four years ago, but he at 0:41:11.120 --> 0:41:13.359 the beginning there was two of us, and I can't 0:41:13.400 --> 0:41:16.080 remember quite why, but it's probably to do with the 0:41:16.120 --> 0:41:18.399 fact that he probably put some money and got one 0:41:18.400 --> 0:41:19.800 of the speakers and I got the other one, and 0:41:19.840 --> 0:41:21.960 we had we had the boxes like with the flashing 0:41:22.000 --> 0:41:25.359 three lights and it was total you know, classic kind 0:41:25.360 --> 0:41:29.320 of cliche stuff. Um and it was you know school 0:41:29.360 --> 0:41:32.439 dis Guy's where we play t Rex. But then I'd 0:41:32.520 --> 0:41:35.440 learned I, you know, play funkadelic, you know one colation 0:41:35.520 --> 0:41:39.120 under a groove or get up, you know Casey and 0:41:39.120 --> 0:41:42.560 a Sunshine Band disco text and the sex Alex James Brown, 0:41:43.160 --> 0:41:46.040 and I realized that these this music made the dance 0:41:46.080 --> 0:41:49.920 for move more than me playing Mark bolan Um and 0:41:49.960 --> 0:41:53.640 I kind of that's where my formative my taste starts 0:41:53.640 --> 0:41:56.680 to come together. There's a fifteen sixteen year old that 0:41:56.719 --> 0:42:01.000 really sould music was my thing. Um. And I've spent 0:42:01.040 --> 0:42:03.160 a lot of time around Gravesend, even though we lived 0:42:03.160 --> 0:42:06.160 in this village. A few miles outside there was a 0:42:06.200 --> 0:42:08.680 record shopping grays And called Chris's Records, and I got 0:42:08.680 --> 0:42:11.600 myself a weekend job there and I just loved the 0:42:11.640 --> 0:42:14.360 idea of like, you know, filing the records away in 0:42:14.440 --> 0:42:17.400 plastic covers, like obviously the covers in the shop were empty, 0:42:17.760 --> 0:42:20.279 and then you'd take them to there and they and 0:42:20.360 --> 0:42:23.640 this this shop had quite unlike the unlike the US, 0:42:24.000 --> 0:42:27.000 the records were not shrink wrapped, no, no, everything was 0:42:27.080 --> 0:42:29.520 like it was in self. It was in an open 0:42:29.640 --> 0:42:34.239 plastic cover. But but this because this this town I 0:42:34.280 --> 0:42:37.759 grew up around had a strong West Indian community, an 0:42:37.800 --> 0:42:41.279 Indian community and England you know white community, and they 0:42:41.320 --> 0:42:43.680 like reggae and they like soul, and a lot of 0:42:43.680 --> 0:42:46.680 the kids were going up to London to like early 0:42:46.840 --> 0:42:50.200 kind of underground from London. It was it was an 0:42:50.200 --> 0:42:54.360 hour on the train miles outside London on the Thames 0:42:54.400 --> 0:42:59.560 South Thames coast um and so I started hanging around 0:42:59.560 --> 0:43:01.440 with a load of pop at like music like like 0:43:02.280 --> 0:43:05.920 music that wasn't the music that was top forty UM. 0:43:05.960 --> 0:43:09.120 And back then growing up even then, there was a 0:43:09.120 --> 0:43:14.680 lot of specialist radios, state programs. On Radio one UM, 0:43:14.719 --> 0:43:18.960 there was a very eccentric American guy called Roscoe Emperor 0:43:19.000 --> 0:43:23.719 Roscoe w n Work. So he used to play you know, 0:43:23.800 --> 0:43:26.000 white boys soul records that the first time I've heard 0:43:26.040 --> 0:43:28.040 anything like the average white band or anything like that. 0:43:29.239 --> 0:43:32.480 And then there was the guy called Tony Prince who 0:43:32.520 --> 0:43:35.480 was on Radio Luxembourg. And then eventually Robbie Vincent and 0:43:35.719 --> 0:43:38.279 Greg was they were my you know, and it was 0:43:38.320 --> 0:43:41.240 like it was like the window to another world hearing 0:43:41.520 --> 0:43:43.839 this music and everything was very rare and like you 0:43:43.840 --> 0:43:48.120 have to really hunt around. Yeah, complete opposite, and I'd 0:43:48.120 --> 0:43:49.719 have to go up you know, I've would send people 0:43:49.800 --> 0:43:51.799 up to London. I'd I'd start going to London on 0:43:51.800 --> 0:43:56.040 the train and going into Soho or to Holburn and 0:43:56.040 --> 0:43:58.279 then finding these records in these record stores, and then 0:43:58.320 --> 0:44:00.960 you have to build your relationship with the person behind 0:44:00.960 --> 0:44:03.560 the counter because there'd only be five copies and if 0:44:03.560 --> 0:44:05.120 you weren't cool enough, you weren't going to get one 0:44:05.120 --> 0:44:06.640 of the five copies. So it's all this thing of 0:44:07.160 --> 0:44:09.240 searching music. And then when I get it back home 0:44:09.680 --> 0:44:12.000 and i'd play it in Kent, you know, around these 0:44:12.040 --> 0:44:14.400 shows that I started doing, I'd cover up the labels 0:44:14.440 --> 0:44:16.360 so that other people couldn't steal it off me or 0:44:16.400 --> 0:44:18.000 find out what it was. So it was all very 0:44:18.120 --> 0:44:21.120 um it was. It was cool. Okay. So you're in 0:44:21.280 --> 0:44:23.799 what we would call high school. How many nights a 0:44:23.800 --> 0:44:28.319 week or how many nights a month are you're working? Um, well, 0:44:28.360 --> 0:44:31.600 once it left school eighteen before you left school, because 0:44:31.600 --> 0:44:33.880 you did at school, it wasn't I mean, how you know, 0:44:34.080 --> 0:44:36.760 like once I can't even remember, like once or twice 0:44:36.760 --> 0:44:40.239 a month probably and we did did yeah, okay, and 0:44:40.280 --> 0:44:42.120 then no I did what I was doing mobile, No, 0:44:42.280 --> 0:44:44.759 I was getting hired to do weddings and stuff like that. 0:44:44.800 --> 0:44:47.479 And okay, so you're you're making decent money. I'll start 0:44:47.520 --> 0:44:49.440 making decent money. What are you quickly? What do your 0:44:49.520 --> 0:44:56.000 parents say about you're not going to university? Initially they were, Um, 0:44:58.520 --> 0:45:00.960 there was a little bit of resistance, and initially they 0:45:00.960 --> 0:45:05.560 were pushing me, but um, they saw it was my 0:45:05.640 --> 0:45:08.200 passion and didn't really stand in my way. I think 0:45:08.239 --> 0:45:11.520 they kept thinking it would wear itself out and just 0:45:11.600 --> 0:45:13.560 be careful that you don't get too old and it's 0:45:13.560 --> 0:45:15.360 too late that if you want to go to university 0:45:15.440 --> 0:45:17.040 or you want to do this stuff. But my dad 0:45:17.080 --> 0:45:20.359 didn't really go to UNI, um and my mom didn't 0:45:20.400 --> 0:45:22.520 go to UNI, so it wasn't a UNI tradition in 0:45:22.520 --> 0:45:26.120 our family. So that probably helped. Okay, some things started 0:45:26.120 --> 0:45:30.680 to happen quite quickly, but I always, um, you know 0:45:30.800 --> 0:45:34.160 DJ's didn't no one dj for a living back then. 0:45:34.360 --> 0:45:37.640 This is the big point to make. So you even 0:45:37.680 --> 0:45:41.120 you know, mobile DJs had day jobs. You know club DJs, 0:45:41.160 --> 0:45:43.279 the early ones that I first heard about, they had 0:45:43.360 --> 0:45:47.359 day jobs. Um, unless you were literally the breakfast show 0:45:47.440 --> 0:45:49.919 DJ on the BBC or Radio one or something like that, 0:45:50.560 --> 0:45:52.759 which I didn't ever want to be. I'd worked out 0:45:52.840 --> 0:45:54.520 quite early on that I didn't want to play other 0:45:54.560 --> 0:45:56.400 people's music choices. If I was going to be on 0:45:56.400 --> 0:45:59.440 the radio, I wanted to play what I wanted to play. Um, 0:45:59.560 --> 0:46:03.920 So I got day job. So nine nine, Um, what 0:46:03.960 --> 0:46:06.680 was your day job? I joined a music magazine called 0:46:06.680 --> 0:46:10.920 Blues and Soul, which was the mixed you know, the 0:46:11.000 --> 0:46:13.000 dance magazine of the day, although it was Could you 0:46:13.040 --> 0:46:15.360 make any money working from Yeah, I got a salary, 0:46:15.400 --> 0:46:18.600 I got a car. Really yeah, it had so as 0:46:18.760 --> 0:46:22.200 you know, and I and I I don't know if 0:46:22.200 --> 0:46:25.440 you remember in the UK, they used to be a 0:46:25.480 --> 0:46:28.560 Pauli Yates was a writer for Record Mirror and she 0:46:28.640 --> 0:46:32.040 was the first one that ever wrote about like pop culture, 0:46:32.200 --> 0:46:36.720 stroke gossip. So I I was obsessed by what she wrote, 0:46:37.160 --> 0:46:39.680 and I thought, I want to write something. I want 0:46:39.680 --> 0:46:42.920 to write about the scene and the gossip in a 0:46:42.920 --> 0:46:45.400 cool way and the music, and so that was what 0:46:45.480 --> 0:46:47.040 I thought my job was going to be at Blues 0:46:47.040 --> 0:46:49.040 and Soul magazine. The day I got there, the publisher 0:46:49.080 --> 0:46:52.160 said to me, yeah, that's just that's just laughing. You know, 0:46:52.200 --> 0:46:55.000 your real job, you're gonna have to go and sell advertary. 0:46:55.080 --> 0:46:56.719 So if you want to do that, you can do that. 0:46:56.760 --> 0:46:58.239 But you've got to go and sell some ads. So 0:46:58.280 --> 0:47:02.080 they gave me a car to go around and sell advertising. 0:47:02.480 --> 0:47:05.200 So I would have to go around all the record shops, 0:47:05.200 --> 0:47:07.200 you know, back in the day. So the record shop ads, 0:47:07.200 --> 0:47:10.960 they used to list a hundred titles, um, and then 0:47:11.000 --> 0:47:12.840 you put them in the back of the magazine with 0:47:12.880 --> 0:47:15.480 a hundred titles mail order, you know. Um. And with 0:47:15.520 --> 0:47:17.279 the reggae shops, it got a bit tricky because if 0:47:17.320 --> 0:47:19.239 you made a spelling mistake, they try and not pay 0:47:19.280 --> 0:47:21.080 your bill. So you know, I had guns pulled on 0:47:21.160 --> 0:47:23.319 me and like all sorts of things back in the day. 0:47:23.360 --> 0:47:26.279 So um, but it was it was it was rites 0:47:26.320 --> 0:47:28.600 of passage. It was a massive experience and it was 0:47:28.840 --> 0:47:30.799 I started to meet more people in the industry because 0:47:30.800 --> 0:47:33.279 I was writing this column. So it's kind of the 0:47:33.320 --> 0:47:35.320 making of me working at Blues and Soul Made and 0:47:35.360 --> 0:47:37.960 you're living were at the time. I was commuting from 0:47:38.080 --> 0:47:42.640 Kent into London. Um. I know, I actually got a 0:47:42.640 --> 0:47:45.560 house really young as well. I got I managed through 0:47:45.600 --> 0:47:48.359 bits of money from DJing. Houses were super cheap back then. 0:47:48.800 --> 0:47:51.880 My first house was I got mortgage obviously, but it 0:47:51.920 --> 0:47:54.200 was like twenty grand or something. I got like three 0:47:54.280 --> 0:48:00.320 bedroom terraced house. Yeah. Boy, my godmother was quite healthy 0:48:00.520 --> 0:48:03.279 and she left me a bit of money. And you're 0:48:03.280 --> 0:48:05.840 talking about like even if you had five grand, you 0:48:05.840 --> 0:48:08.520 could get because it on a proper house. It was 0:48:08.520 --> 0:48:11.239 opposite a cemetery, but it was actually quite cool. And 0:48:11.719 --> 0:48:15.560 so how long you would I left the house. So 0:48:15.560 --> 0:48:21.560 so the magazine I was three, And then the record 0:48:21.600 --> 0:48:25.239 companies were starting to kind of, you know, get more 0:48:25.239 --> 0:48:29.920 and more interested in dance music. And Roger Rames was 0:48:30.000 --> 0:48:32.920 working at what was called Phonogram, and there was a 0:48:32.920 --> 0:48:36.560 guy called Tracy Bennett working at a place called Decca, 0:48:37.000 --> 0:48:40.560 and Tracy had signed Banana Rama to Decca, and Roger 0:48:40.600 --> 0:48:44.120 had signed you know, Tainted, Soft Cell Dex's Midnight Runners. 0:48:44.200 --> 0:48:48.280 Roger was killing it and and they to keep him happy, 0:48:48.320 --> 0:48:50.520 they gave him his own label. So they gave him 0:48:50.560 --> 0:48:53.040 the Redundant London label which was sitting on a shelf 0:48:53.719 --> 0:48:56.960 um and said well why don't you reinvent London And 0:48:57.000 --> 0:48:59.520 that he came together with Tracy and they formed London Records, 0:49:00.080 --> 0:49:02.920 and then there was a club promotions A and R 0:49:02.960 --> 0:49:06.560 man Phonogram at the time called Jeff Young who also 0:49:06.600 --> 0:49:08.439 happened to be a DJ that was a bit older 0:49:08.440 --> 0:49:11.680 than me and my buddy, and you know, I was 0:49:11.719 --> 0:49:15.120 almost his protege and he was also on the radio, 0:49:15.160 --> 0:49:16.759 so I was kind of following his path. And he 0:49:17.280 --> 0:49:19.279 they assumed he was going to go with them to 0:49:19.360 --> 0:49:22.200 start this new venture, and he said no, he wanted 0:49:22.239 --> 0:49:25.600 to stay at phonogram Um and he wanted to retire. 0:49:26.280 --> 0:49:29.560 Eventually packed up djaying as well. He just wanted to 0:49:29.600 --> 0:49:32.879 do radio, not club djaying. And they said, well, who 0:49:32.880 --> 0:49:34.360 else are we going to call? And they said, did 0:49:34.360 --> 0:49:35.759 you call this guy? Pete Tong? So I had a 0:49:35.760 --> 0:49:38.799 meeting with them and it was it was amazing those two, 0:49:38.800 --> 0:49:43.000 you know, rogers, very thoughtful and sensible, and you know 0:49:43.200 --> 0:49:47.480 Tracy was quite wild and flamboyant and the sexy guy 0:49:47.520 --> 0:49:49.759 everyone wanted to sign to kind of thing with with 0:49:49.880 --> 0:49:53.160 great spiel and amazing years. And I worked for the 0:49:53.440 --> 0:49:57.080 joined them and it was it was, you know, a 0:49:57.200 --> 0:49:59.000 ride that took I went. I worked with them for 0:49:59.040 --> 0:50:02.279 eighteen years until early two thousand's, until the label got 0:50:02.320 --> 0:50:05.560 sold and it was it was an incredible time, incredible period, 0:50:05.880 --> 0:50:08.759 and um we hit the ground running and the first 0:50:08.800 --> 0:50:12.440 day ever went into work, UM we were number one 0:50:12.440 --> 0:50:14.879 in the chart with Candy Girl with new Addition, which 0:50:14.960 --> 0:50:18.880 Roger and traced licensed off of street Wise off Arthur Baker. 0:50:19.719 --> 0:50:21.640 And I was given the tapes to the next single, 0:50:21.719 --> 0:50:24.200 like big half inch tapes, so you're a DJ, go 0:50:24.280 --> 0:50:26.799 and edit the next single and yet and I was like, 0:50:27.840 --> 0:50:30.120 and I was walking out the door and like, I'd 0:50:30.160 --> 0:50:32.640 never cut tape with a razor before, But I went. 0:50:32.719 --> 0:50:34.920 I went to a studio in Marble Arch which actually 0:50:34.920 --> 0:50:37.799 eventually became Paul Weller studio called Solid Bond, and there 0:50:37.840 --> 0:50:39.920 was a lovely old guy in there called Carlos and 0:50:39.960 --> 0:50:42.799 he he took me under his wing and he said, 0:50:42.800 --> 0:50:44.480 don't worry, We're going to work it out. Like, well, 0:50:44.480 --> 0:50:45.680 what do you want to do? You know, It's like, well, 0:50:45.719 --> 0:50:47.680 I want to cut like eight bars out the interest 0:50:48.120 --> 0:50:50.200 he showed me, like with the razor. And I had 0:50:50.239 --> 0:50:52.400 cut tape at home, but nothing like on a master. 0:50:53.400 --> 0:50:56.800 Did you cut the master? The master? But I guess 0:50:56.840 --> 0:50:59.000 it was a copy of what they'd sent us from America. 0:50:59.440 --> 0:51:02.480 Back then. Um so you can't. I started editing literally 0:51:02.560 --> 0:51:05.239 my first day at work. It was quite funny, so 0:51:05.520 --> 0:51:07.360 it was a it real writes a passage. But and 0:51:07.400 --> 0:51:09.880 then you know, I started They started sending me to 0:51:09.920 --> 0:51:14.680 America very regularly. And it was the days when you 0:51:14.680 --> 0:51:17.920 you know, walked down the street and bumped into someone 0:51:17.960 --> 0:51:20.000 and licensed a record off and a bit like I 0:51:20.040 --> 0:51:23.239 remembering Hurtigan m Urtigan's book he says that about the 0:51:23.320 --> 0:51:25.640 Rolling Stones, like you know, it was a fantastic tile 0:51:25.840 --> 0:51:27.400 down the street and I bumped into mid Jagger and 0:51:27.400 --> 0:51:28.880 I signed him. It was a bit like that with 0:51:29.000 --> 0:51:32.320 dance music back then. And I signed Rundy m C 0:51:33.400 --> 0:51:36.799 licensed them from Profile from Corey Robbins for the for 0:51:36.840 --> 0:51:39.360 the world outside of America, and that got me straight 0:51:39.400 --> 0:51:44.239 in with with Russell and Leo um And and and 0:51:44.480 --> 0:51:47.520 Rick Rubin and m I met those three very early 0:51:47.560 --> 0:51:51.440 on and um And that we and we did and 0:51:51.480 --> 0:51:53.719 that was the Raising Hell album, you know, so that 0:51:53.800 --> 0:51:55.600 was hugely successful. En off the back of that, I 0:51:55.640 --> 0:51:58.560 managed to sign Salt and Pepper from Eddio Lachlan the 0:51:58.719 --> 0:52:01.239 next Plateau Records in but tween signing like the odd 0:52:01.280 --> 0:52:04.960 early like Paradise Garage house record or the early house 0:52:05.000 --> 0:52:08.600 records that were coming through from Chicago, and I was 0:52:08.640 --> 0:52:10.120 I was on a roll as any and our man. 0:52:10.200 --> 0:52:11.520 I mean, we just we sounded push It and that 0:52:11.640 --> 0:52:15.640 was like a massive, massive hit. UM and eventually Salt 0:52:15.680 --> 0:52:19.200 and Pepper we stuck with them UM and we ended 0:52:19.280 --> 0:52:21.719 up becoming the label in America eventually as well, during 0:52:21.760 --> 0:52:24.440 the kind of the en vogue what are man at times? 0:52:25.160 --> 0:52:27.360 So it was it was it was great fun. And 0:52:27.400 --> 0:52:29.919 then they gave me my own label. So dance music 0:52:30.000 --> 0:52:33.080 was like blowing up. So in six eighty seven, just 0:52:33.120 --> 0:52:36.280 as house music was starting, we started f I started 0:52:36.400 --> 0:52:39.080 ffr R, which was actually a little symbol on the 0:52:39.080 --> 0:52:41.040 top of the old London logo that just stood for 0:52:41.080 --> 0:52:44.120 full frequency Range Recording, so it was like a mono 0:52:44.200 --> 0:52:48.080 stereo Dolby. It was an old symbol from the deca 0:52:48.160 --> 0:52:50.800 days about the quality of a recording. I thought it 0:52:50.800 --> 0:52:52.520 would be quite nice because we were obsessed by deaf 0:52:52.600 --> 0:52:56.160 jam so like Black Silver wanted something like death jams, 0:52:56.160 --> 0:53:00.800 so FRR looked quite good. Okay, so you're working London records, 0:53:00.840 --> 0:53:04.600 you were successful. Sounds like you're making a good paycheck. Yeah, okay, 0:53:04.800 --> 0:53:07.440 and and then I was still all the way doing 0:53:07.440 --> 0:53:10.960 that's my question. How much were you DJing? Well then, 0:53:11.160 --> 0:53:15.640 like every week it was some you know the club scene. Okay, 0:53:15.680 --> 0:53:18.560 let's let's start there. Okay. There's a lot on how 0:53:18.560 --> 0:53:21.160 it did it. It's a long tradition of the Brits 0:53:21.200 --> 0:53:23.520 going to a Betha. But when did it turn into 0:53:23.520 --> 0:53:28.879 a whole dance stay up all night environment Betha. Well, 0:53:28.920 --> 0:53:30.960 it was that from the very beginning. We just weren't 0:53:31.040 --> 0:53:35.840 welcome as Brits in the late eighties, so um, you know, 0:53:35.880 --> 0:53:38.640 we the Britgs used to go there is like a 0:53:38.760 --> 0:53:42.520 cheap tourist package holiday destination in the early eighties. And 0:53:42.520 --> 0:53:48.440 it wasn't till the late eighties, like specifically where I 0:53:48.520 --> 0:53:51.960 kind of discovered Alfredo and Amnesia and Passia and started 0:53:52.000 --> 0:53:54.160 seeing these parties that went through the night and then 0:53:54.440 --> 0:53:57.080 carried on going when the sun came up. And that 0:53:57.160 --> 0:53:59.480 was totally unique because we had the licensing laws of 0:53:59.520 --> 0:54:03.120 the UK um and that's when everything started to really 0:54:03.120 --> 0:54:08.480 really change. But I mean, so Betha um from I've 0:54:08.520 --> 0:54:13.239 been there every year every ever since. But the yeah, 0:54:13.239 --> 0:54:17.920 the nineties, you know, it started to really kind of 0:54:17.960 --> 0:54:21.200 shape itself that it really really blew up in probably 0:54:21.320 --> 0:54:24.640 the two thousand's is when Oka. But the clubs there 0:54:25.120 --> 0:54:29.280 were they existing or did the Spianiards have a vision? 0:54:30.480 --> 0:54:33.640 They had a vision for sure. It just by accident 0:54:33.760 --> 0:54:38.279 or design or this vision. Um, it happened to be 0:54:38.320 --> 0:54:42.480 this small island you've been, you've been and it you know, 0:54:42.600 --> 0:54:46.280 there happened to be there for four or five clubs, 0:54:46.320 --> 0:54:49.040 all very close to each other. That happened then went 0:54:49.080 --> 0:54:50.920 on to become some of the most famous clubs in 0:54:50.960 --> 0:54:54.360 the world. And I think it was the mix of 0:54:54.400 --> 0:54:59.440 the audience and then the liberalism of the licensing laws 0:54:59.480 --> 0:55:02.799 that enable about to happen. So obviously it's changed a 0:55:02.880 --> 0:55:05.680 lot over the years because that that idea of going 0:55:05.760 --> 0:55:08.440 through to the morning and carrying on, that's kind of stopped, 0:55:08.480 --> 0:55:11.759 you know, the idea of the big superclubs like Amnesia 0:55:12.160 --> 0:55:16.440 Um and Passia in particular, going on until they wanted 0:55:16.480 --> 0:55:19.040 to like ten in the morning. That that's gone, you 0:55:19.080 --> 0:55:22.120 know that. So in the last ten years it's been 0:55:22.200 --> 0:55:24.080 much stricter about you must finish it six, when you 0:55:24.160 --> 0:55:25.920 must finish at seven, or you must finish it eight 0:55:26.000 --> 0:55:28.520 or whatever. And then often the after and then there's 0:55:28.560 --> 0:55:31.960 no carry on like officially the after party seen often 0:55:32.080 --> 0:55:35.560 starts after lunch and it's actually a bit more organized 0:55:35.600 --> 0:55:39.239 and you know, so, but the the idea of going 0:55:39.239 --> 0:55:42.440 through the night get a long answer to your question, 0:55:42.760 --> 0:55:45.359 but actually it's it's probably been more curtailed. It was 0:55:45.480 --> 0:55:47.920 like that where it was like twenty four hours, you know, 0:55:48.120 --> 0:55:50.440 and now it isn't. It's okay, you can, but you 0:55:50.480 --> 0:55:52.560 can find somewhere to dance pretty much twenty four hours. 0:55:53.000 --> 0:55:55.040 It's not in the same place. To what degree do 0:55:55.080 --> 0:55:59.480 you believe it was fueled by drugs? Um, Well, clearly 0:56:00.040 --> 0:56:06.840 really had a massive influence on it. Um that's that's okay. 0:56:06.880 --> 0:56:10.319 I mean it was at a combination of things. I mean, 0:56:10.320 --> 0:56:16.040 it's so it's easy from a tabloid non you know, educate. 0:56:16.600 --> 0:56:18.040 You know, if you if you don't know anything about 0:56:18.040 --> 0:56:21.080 the music and you just want to write a certain 0:56:21.080 --> 0:56:23.319 type of history about it, you could you could lean 0:56:23.400 --> 0:56:25.960 in it that way. But to but to think that 0:56:26.040 --> 0:56:29.279 it wasn't artistic and it wasn't about the music, you'd 0:56:29.320 --> 0:56:31.680 you'd be completely missing the point, which comes right back 0:56:31.680 --> 0:56:33.360 to the beginning of our conversation, which is why a 0:56:33.400 --> 0:56:36.440 beether classics works because the music was great, and maybe 0:56:36.760 --> 0:56:40.400 it didn't necessarily get the the props it deserved back 0:56:40.440 --> 0:56:42.600 in the day, because that's what a lot of people thought. 0:56:42.640 --> 0:56:44.840 You know. The very reason we started the I M 0:56:44.960 --> 0:56:47.400 s was because people thought all that happens in a 0:56:47.440 --> 0:56:50.880 Beth was it was a party. Okay, So how important 0:56:50.960 --> 0:56:52.880 is me and Chester of the hut Yanda and the 0:56:52.960 --> 0:56:59.000 acts there? Hugely important? Um, you know, that's a whole 0:56:59.000 --> 0:57:02.720 another thing. I was. I was an observer and occasional visitor. 0:57:02.760 --> 0:57:05.560 And I wasn't part of that because I was I 0:57:05.640 --> 0:57:10.520 was a London guy. Um, but you know, phenomenal apportment. 0:57:10.600 --> 0:57:14.320 And you've got to remember back in the late eighties 0:57:14.360 --> 0:57:20.200 when that started, you know, the country was much more disconnected. 0:57:20.240 --> 0:57:22.320 You know, just the idea of like, you know, having 0:57:22.360 --> 0:57:26.000 these things and the way we all travel now, you know, 0:57:26.120 --> 0:57:28.440 being in London and like making a trip to Manchester, 0:57:28.800 --> 0:57:30.760 it was a massive thing. You know. It's like this 0:57:30.840 --> 0:57:33.680 did not happen on a regular basis, you know. And 0:57:33.720 --> 0:57:36.240 it was before DJs even traveled up and down the country. 0:57:36.280 --> 0:57:38.640 So I was a big DJ in in the southeast 0:57:39.080 --> 0:57:41.280 and I was virtually unknown in the rest of the country. 0:57:41.280 --> 0:57:44.439 But what was the night worth to you back then? 0:57:47.160 --> 0:57:52.480 Probably um, but in the eighties I don't know there was. 0:57:52.600 --> 0:57:55.640 It definitely starts with hundreds and then it becomes thousands. 0:57:56.320 --> 0:57:59.760 So in any event, but you're aware of the scene 0:57:59.800 --> 0:58:03.000 in the Anchester totally. By then I was in the 0:58:03.040 --> 0:58:07.120 record company and Mike Pickering quite a grand part, quite 0:58:07.200 --> 0:58:09.720 rapidly became rival A and r Men as well. I 0:58:09.720 --> 0:58:14.000 mean Pickering went close in with Deconstruction, and Deconstruction became 0:58:14.040 --> 0:58:16.000 the label of the North. Even though it was run 0:58:16.000 --> 0:58:18.640 by one guy from Liverpool, it was actually always seen 0:58:18.680 --> 0:58:21.720 as it was, you know. And then obviously Factory was 0:58:22.960 --> 0:58:27.160 most of those Factory acts, I mean Joy Division had 0:58:27.920 --> 0:58:30.800 purchase here and has maintained as bigger than it's ever been. 0:58:30.840 --> 0:58:33.880 But the Happy Mondays a lot of those acts never 0:58:33.920 --> 0:58:35.800 made it here. How big were they in the UK? 0:58:36.240 --> 0:58:43.120 Absolutely massive and more than massive, they were hugely um 0:58:43.520 --> 0:58:46.080 you know, they carried an awful lot of gravitas, particularly 0:58:46.120 --> 0:58:48.360 new Order obviously coming from coming out of Joy Division 0:58:49.240 --> 0:58:51.840 less so something like Orchestral maneuvers in the darkest that 0:58:51.960 --> 0:58:55.160 the fact Factory was an amazing thing, you know, and 0:58:55.200 --> 0:58:58.320 I was I got deeply involved with them towards the 0:58:58.400 --> 0:59:01.920 end because London one kind of started to bail him out. 0:59:01.960 --> 0:59:04.480 You know. We started by licensing the Happy Mondays and 0:59:04.560 --> 0:59:07.480 having their records around the rest of the world. And 0:59:07.520 --> 0:59:11.240 then as the financial troubles got worse, Um, we got 0:59:11.280 --> 0:59:13.160 we got further and further into factory to the point 0:59:13.160 --> 0:59:15.320 where we bought it. Yeah. So, and then I used 0:59:15.360 --> 0:59:18.000 to work a lot with Tony in the city and 0:59:18.360 --> 0:59:22.920 um Tony Wilson and um them. From an A and 0:59:23.000 --> 0:59:26.160 R perspective, I actually ended up looking after New Order 0:59:26.200 --> 0:59:27.880 and became their A and R man when they came 0:59:27.920 --> 0:59:30.400 over to London, and so I worked very closely with 0:59:30.600 --> 0:59:40.040 you know, with Bernard and with Rob Grettan. Okay, so 0:59:40.880 --> 0:59:44.240 you're a DJ, at what point do you start playing 0:59:44.240 --> 0:59:54.479 individual records and start mixing the records together. Um, late 0:59:54.640 --> 0:59:59.560 late I'm just think this, but through probably early eighties, 1:00:00.120 --> 1:00:04.160 what was basically what happened is, um, you know, when 1:00:04.160 --> 1:00:07.320 the soul scene was blowing up, the underground soul scene, 1:00:07.400 --> 1:00:09.480 and it was a northern soul scene in in in 1:00:09.520 --> 1:00:13.400 the North. Um. One of the guys in our gang, 1:00:13.480 --> 1:00:16.480 you know, the biggest, one of the biggest DJs of 1:00:16.600 --> 1:00:18.440 that time, was a guy called Froggy, and he was 1:00:18.520 --> 1:00:20.880 my mentor when it came to DJ equipment, So he 1:00:20.880 --> 1:00:23.040 was always the geek with the DJ equipment. Had this 1:00:23.080 --> 1:00:25.919 Orange sound system which was incredible, and I bought decks 1:00:25.960 --> 1:00:29.680 off him when he was re upp into the to 1:00:29.760 --> 1:00:32.560 the newest model. So I got all his old equipment 1:00:32.560 --> 1:00:35.480 and became like an understudy to Froggy almost, But he 1:00:35.640 --> 1:00:38.480 started going to New York before and you know, one 1:00:38.480 --> 1:00:39.880 of the first guys to ever go to New York 1:00:39.880 --> 1:00:43.760 and see Larry Levan. Um. There was a very famous writer, 1:00:44.200 --> 1:00:46.600 a beautiful guy called James Hamilton as well that was 1:00:46.640 --> 1:00:50.080 like that used to review all the music for Record Mirror, 1:00:50.120 --> 1:00:52.720 and he was the first one to actually issue bpms, 1:00:52.760 --> 1:00:56.760 so he every review came with a bpms per minute. 1:00:57.040 --> 1:00:59.840 And then and Froggy went over and like saw the 1:01:00.000 --> 1:01:04.640 early um you know, David Mancuso, and saw Larry Levan 1:01:04.720 --> 1:01:07.680 in action. And so when he came back from New York, 1:01:07.760 --> 1:01:09.920 like it was like he had two copies of everything. 1:01:09.920 --> 1:01:12.240 It's like what you know, what you're doing. It's like, oh, 1:01:12.280 --> 1:01:14.240 I can make I can extend this. And he literally 1:01:14.240 --> 1:01:17.080 came back. He literally it was like, you know Moses 1:01:17.120 --> 1:01:19.040 coming down from the mountain. It's like I've been to 1:01:19.120 --> 1:01:22.480 New York, I've seen Larry Leavan, and I've bought two 1:01:22.520 --> 1:01:25.200 copies of this from the vinyl factory or whatever. And 1:01:25.240 --> 1:01:27.400 now I can play this record and make it like 1:01:27.560 --> 1:01:29.280 twice as long. And I was like, oh my god. 1:01:29.880 --> 1:01:32.000 And and that's because you work out what tempo it 1:01:32.040 --> 1:01:33.600 is and you match the tempo. And it was it 1:01:33.640 --> 1:01:35.800 was just it was before you know, it's just just 1:01:35.840 --> 1:01:38.400 as very speed turntables were coming in that in fact, 1:01:38.440 --> 1:01:41.200 you could even do that. So he opened He was 1:01:41.240 --> 1:01:44.400 definitely the gateway to open everybody's eyes to mixing, and 1:01:44.720 --> 1:01:47.520 we were we were edging towards smooth segways. I mean. 1:01:47.520 --> 1:01:49.800 The other biggest DJ of the day was a guy 1:01:49.840 --> 1:01:52.680 called Chris Hill. I actually used to run Ensign Records 1:01:52.680 --> 1:01:59.960 with Nigel Lucy and Granger's brother and and they say 1:02:00.000 --> 1:02:03.120 of Boomtown Rats and shined O'Connor and and so Chris 1:02:03.120 --> 1:02:05.280 had a day job, but he was the biggest DJ 1:02:05.360 --> 1:02:06.880 at the time, and he used to sing over the 1:02:06.920 --> 1:02:09.560 records and talk across the segway, so it would like 1:02:09.640 --> 1:02:13.800 blurred everything together. Um and Froggy kind of brought in 1:02:13.840 --> 1:02:16.200 this more like modern way of doing it. Obviously we 1:02:16.240 --> 1:02:18.440 were aware as well as like Africa Bambarto and the 1:02:18.520 --> 1:02:20.400 hip hop guys and what they were doing in terms 1:02:20.440 --> 1:02:22.920 of turntable ism. So it kind of that's when it 1:02:22.960 --> 1:02:25.920 all changed. And then suddenly, I don't know, there must 1:02:25.920 --> 1:02:27.840 have been one day where it just wasn't cool not 1:02:28.000 --> 1:02:30.160 to mix. You know, you just had you just you 1:02:30.280 --> 1:02:33.120 just assumed you had to mix. And by the time 1:02:33.160 --> 1:02:37.440 the house music kicked in, um, you know, like you 1:02:37.560 --> 1:02:39.120 just you just had to be doing that. It was 1:02:39.160 --> 1:02:41.320 just the thing to do. Okay, did you practice or 1:02:41.320 --> 1:02:45.000 did you practice? No, definitely practiced. I had the whole 1:02:45.040 --> 1:02:49.520 set up at home and it um. And then and 1:02:49.560 --> 1:02:51.920 then they became people that were the best at mixing, 1:02:51.960 --> 1:02:55.120 you know. But there was melodic mixing, mixing and key mixing, 1:02:55.280 --> 1:02:58.160 beautiful transitions, you know, taking people on journeys, and I 1:02:58.280 --> 1:03:02.640 was you know, so it just raised the game. There 1:03:02.680 --> 1:03:05.240 was a guy called Sasha you know still around today, 1:03:05.240 --> 1:03:07.640 a good friend of mine that really it was another 1:03:07.640 --> 1:03:11.000 one that really raised that. There was another real you know, 1:03:11.160 --> 1:03:13.840 raising the bar moment, like when he came on because 1:03:13.840 --> 1:03:15.840 he could just do it in his sleep, and he 1:03:15.960 --> 1:03:20.000 just everything always seemed to being key, and it just 1:03:20.120 --> 1:03:23.040 you know, not just about mixing out of the drum 1:03:23.080 --> 1:03:24.720 break of one into the drum break of the other, 1:03:24.720 --> 1:03:27.640 but actually thinking about, well, now this baseline is going here, 1:03:27.640 --> 1:03:29.200 I'm going to get this baseline to go there. And 1:03:29.240 --> 1:03:32.640 that was yet. So its just the whole skill set 1:03:32.680 --> 1:03:36.640 around it and the the learning curve just increased hugely 1:03:36.680 --> 1:03:40.560 in the late eighties. Okay, so London record has assolted 1:03:40.560 --> 1:03:44.040 around the turn of the century. Where does that leave you? Um, 1:03:44.200 --> 1:03:49.520 weirdly at forty plus years old and sitting around going, um, 1:03:49.640 --> 1:03:51.440 oh my god, you know, for the first time in 1:03:51.480 --> 1:03:53.320 my life, even though I've done it my whole life, 1:03:53.360 --> 1:03:58.640 I'm i am a full time PJ. So um and 1:03:58.680 --> 1:04:00.800 I went. There was no thought of adding another record 1:04:00.840 --> 1:04:03.040 company job. I was kind of over it by then. 1:04:03.080 --> 1:04:06.080 It got if you remember the naps to you know, 1:04:06.320 --> 1:04:08.800 two thousand, two thousand one, I mean, the dance music 1:04:08.840 --> 1:04:11.520 bubble had burst, you know, we all the way through 1:04:11.560 --> 1:04:17.080 the nineties, like the ecosystem, the economic value of dance 1:04:17.160 --> 1:04:19.920 music every year just kept going up like a stock 1:04:19.920 --> 1:04:22.880 price out of control. So everything you know, and the 1:04:22.920 --> 1:04:26.360 infrastructure about dance music got fatter and fatter and fatter, 1:04:27.040 --> 1:04:30.920 and inevitably, after ten years of like fattening this giant 1:04:31.000 --> 1:04:34.880 cow bull um, people start to take their eyes off 1:04:34.880 --> 1:04:36.800 the ball. Things definitely aren't as good as they used 1:04:36.800 --> 1:04:39.080 to be, but everyone's making loads of money. And and 1:04:39.120 --> 1:04:42.560 I wouldn't say that it didn't pop around the millennium, 1:04:42.760 --> 1:04:45.800 but it got punctured somewhere along the way. And as 1:04:45.800 --> 1:04:49.720 we came into the new decade after a couple of years, 1:04:49.760 --> 1:04:53.360 like the tires are deflating, um, you know, magazines are closing, 1:04:54.560 --> 1:04:57.760 major record companies are starting to either you know, make 1:04:57.800 --> 1:05:01.800 people redundant or tighten up. Budge. It's you know, doing doing, 1:05:01.960 --> 1:05:04.840 doing all sorts of stuff to dance labels. And by 1:05:04.880 --> 1:05:07.040 then my career at London, I was kind of head 1:05:07.040 --> 1:05:08.800 of a and r of the whole thing. So I've 1:05:08.920 --> 1:05:13.040 kind of outgrown the dance bit and I've replaced myself 1:05:13.080 --> 1:05:15.520 with people, you know, many great people worked with me, 1:05:15.680 --> 1:05:18.600 and John Niven wrote the book about us with you 1:05:18.640 --> 1:05:20.960 know Killy your friends, but you know people like Nick 1:05:21.040 --> 1:05:25.120 Raphael who's very senior now at Capital, signed Sam Smith, 1:05:25.160 --> 1:05:27.280 you know, Christian tatters Field, and you're well aware of. 1:05:27.520 --> 1:05:30.240 UM used to work for us at London Records. UM. 1:05:30.400 --> 1:05:32.480 Even Patrick Moxley worked at London Records. You know, there 1:05:32.520 --> 1:05:35.360 was like there was loads of people UM that have 1:05:35.440 --> 1:05:38.480 gone on to Paul McDonald. Funny enough, he was a 1:05:38.520 --> 1:05:42.400 manager of you know, James Bay and George George ezra Um. 1:05:42.480 --> 1:05:44.680 He was a London Records. You know, there was amazing 1:05:45.360 --> 1:05:49.800 It's sold basically, but I'd become head of an R 1:05:49.800 --> 1:05:51.720 and it was like the game. I remember that signing 1:05:51.760 --> 1:05:55.280 some kind of pop things because everyone you start sign 1:05:55.360 --> 1:05:57.480 you end up signing things because you think they're going 1:05:57.560 --> 1:06:01.320 to be hugely successful economically and you kind of but 1:06:01.360 --> 1:06:04.000 you don't really love them. But like I remember there 1:06:04.040 --> 1:06:08.080 was one I can't remember the name of it. UM. 1:06:08.080 --> 1:06:12.080 Oh god, I remember being involved in signing this pop 1:06:12.120 --> 1:06:14.520 act and it was only Smallman and Dennis Inglesby were 1:06:14.520 --> 1:06:18.640 the managers, and I and UM and and every you know, 1:06:18.680 --> 1:06:21.160 it's one of those ones where like Roger was sure, 1:06:21.200 --> 1:06:23.959 everyone was sure, Like the dorman of the building was sure, 1:06:24.040 --> 1:06:26.640 everyone at Radio one was sure. Like I've made it 1:06:26.640 --> 1:06:28.720 about as sure as you could possibly making. It was 1:06:28.800 --> 1:06:34.240 hugely expensive and UM and we spent about a year 1:06:34.320 --> 1:06:36.960 doing this deal and six months making the record and 1:06:37.000 --> 1:06:40.680 then it was like and then we took it to 1:06:40.760 --> 1:06:43.200 Radio one one day and it was Alex Jones. Donnelly 1:06:43.320 --> 1:06:45.320 was the head of programming at that time. It was 1:06:45.360 --> 1:06:51.000 like and it's like literally within about a month they 1:06:51.000 --> 1:06:53.480 were dropped. You know, we wrote off like half a 1:06:53.560 --> 1:06:57.240 million quid and um, you know, people would get you know, 1:06:57.280 --> 1:07:00.960 it's just like, no, I don't like this anymore. It 1:07:01.120 --> 1:07:05.720 was so and then so I started my full time role, 1:07:05.840 --> 1:07:07.600 started to be a bit of a consultant, and I 1:07:07.600 --> 1:07:10.280 remember when it got sold out and if you remember, 1:07:10.400 --> 1:07:12.880 Roger went into the kind of heavens like working with 1:07:12.960 --> 1:07:16.400 Dick Parsons at Warners. You know, John Reid took over 1:07:16.440 --> 1:07:18.840 on a day to day basis. We moved to Kensington. 1:07:19.320 --> 1:07:23.120 You know, me and Tracy were like, everything from our 1:07:23.200 --> 1:07:25.680 kind of indie beginnings have changed so much. We kind 1:07:25.680 --> 1:07:26.960 of lost a bit of interest and I got more 1:07:27.000 --> 1:07:29.520 and more distracted by DJ and my DJing in the 1:07:29.520 --> 1:07:32.120 early two thousands. As as what happened to a lot 1:07:32.120 --> 1:07:35.480 of DJs. Then this is the economic value from recorded 1:07:35.560 --> 1:07:39.080 music collapsed. All the value went into live suddenly. Though 1:07:39.160 --> 1:07:42.080 with the Internet, we were getting calls from Peru and 1:07:42.160 --> 1:07:44.560 Chile and Australia for the first time, and you know, 1:07:44.560 --> 1:07:48.360 we could start traveling and migrating like birds to where 1:07:48.360 --> 1:07:51.680 the money was. So two thousands to probably two thousand 1:07:51.680 --> 1:07:55.640 and five, I just did an awful lot of touring. 1:07:56.280 --> 1:07:57.960 So you at what point do you start working as 1:07:58.000 --> 1:08:01.400 a record executive. Well, two thousand one, two tho two 1:08:01.400 --> 1:08:03.680 starts to kind of filter out. There was a little 1:08:03.720 --> 1:08:09.160 flirtation with Universal Um where I was going to I 1:08:09.280 --> 1:08:12.160 kind of did a deal to do some compilations, and 1:08:12.200 --> 1:08:15.560 I was going to consult with a dance label and 1:08:15.720 --> 1:08:19.080 some ex staff from London Records were working there and 1:08:19.400 --> 1:08:24.360 funny enough, six months ago to negotiating that, and um, 1:08:24.560 --> 1:08:27.160 the guy that did the deal I did. I signed 1:08:27.200 --> 1:08:28.920 a deal on a Friday, and then on the Monday 1:08:29.600 --> 1:08:34.680 he got pulled out and it was it was it 1:08:34.760 --> 1:08:37.760 was Matt Jagger and and that Jason ially came in 1:08:37.800 --> 1:08:39.880 to take over and we got on fine. He said, 1:08:39.960 --> 1:08:41.439 it's just not my vision, you know, It's like I've 1:08:41.439 --> 1:08:43.680 got I've got enough things to fix here. That's not 1:08:43.720 --> 1:08:47.639 going to work. And um, so I went back out 1:08:47.720 --> 1:08:49.439 and did other things. I was doing radio and I 1:08:49.560 --> 1:08:51.599 had a radio production company and stuff different to buses 1:08:51.640 --> 1:08:55.640 and pieces, and then um, around that same time I 1:08:55.720 --> 1:08:59.519 changed managers and then w m ME for the and 1:08:59.560 --> 1:09:03.640 I knew Tiger because Geiger was our agent for New Order, 1:09:05.720 --> 1:09:08.400 and so w ME opened in London, if you remember, 1:09:08.400 --> 1:09:13.679 it was Ed Bicknell, strangely stret manager, David Levy, Solomon 1:09:13.720 --> 1:09:16.400 Parker and they were the three that's opened and it 1:09:16.439 --> 1:09:19.680 was that was their first office. And my manager was 1:09:19.720 --> 1:09:21.760 Gary Blackburn, who was the manager of Fact Boy Slim, 1:09:21.800 --> 1:09:24.600 who's David Levy's long term client. And Gary said, you 1:09:24.600 --> 1:09:26.479 should be with David. He's the best guy. And David 1:09:26.560 --> 1:09:29.320 was the first ever DJ agent anyway, literally in the world. 1:09:29.600 --> 1:09:33.640 He was the first, you know, dedicated agent for a 1:09:33.720 --> 1:09:37.160 DJ and that was Paul Oakenfold, so I knew about him. Um, 1:09:37.200 --> 1:09:38.600 so I moved to w m ME. And at the 1:09:38.600 --> 1:09:41.840 same time Geiger was like, you know, well, he knew 1:09:41.960 --> 1:09:44.200 I was an out of work record company guy and 1:09:44.200 --> 1:09:45.720 he always saw me as that. He said, why don't 1:09:45.720 --> 1:09:47.200 you come and do an n R for an agency? 1:09:47.280 --> 1:09:49.479 So it was quite visionary thinking and I said, what 1:09:49.520 --> 1:09:50.840 do you mean, how's that going to work? So we'll 1:09:50.880 --> 1:09:53.599 just tell us what we should sign, you know, help 1:09:53.680 --> 1:09:56.960 us introduce us. You know, you know I love dancing music, 1:09:56.960 --> 1:09:59.240 love electronic music. He always did. He was obsessed by 1:09:59.320 --> 1:10:03.479 Moby Um, obsessed by factory, and he said, why don't 1:10:03.479 --> 1:10:04.680 you come and do it here? So that's how that 1:10:04.720 --> 1:10:07.960 relationship started. And I'm still with him, you know. Okay, 1:10:08.160 --> 1:10:10.240 So now when you're on your own, how many nights 1:10:10.280 --> 1:10:11.680 a week or how many nights a month are you 1:10:11.760 --> 1:10:20.680 working back then? I mean, because I don't know like 1:10:20.720 --> 1:10:25.040 the average gigs is. I think my averages have gone. 1:10:25.400 --> 1:10:27.920 I think the peak was like a hundred gigs a year. 1:10:28.360 --> 1:10:31.120 I was never like a dead mouse or you know, 1:10:31.280 --> 1:10:33.040 so you're never one because I was never. I was 1:10:33.080 --> 1:10:34.920 never two hundred gigs here. I mean, funny I've I've 1:10:34.920 --> 1:10:37.759 always had, you know, you know, I've gone through that divorce. 1:10:37.800 --> 1:10:42.200 I've gone you know that I'm definitely deejaying didn't help um, 1:10:42.240 --> 1:10:44.639 and that that early period of the two thousands where 1:10:44.640 --> 1:10:47.519 it all fell apart and me traveling, you know, more 1:10:47.600 --> 1:10:51.200 away from home. Insecurities probably, I mean all sorts of stuff, 1:10:51.240 --> 1:10:55.960 and then um, but I've always cherished this other. I've 1:10:55.960 --> 1:10:58.160 never I think the reason I'm still dejaying to this day. 1:10:58.160 --> 1:11:00.920 Is simply because I never could do burnout because I 1:11:00.960 --> 1:11:04.040 always had you know, I see it as an artistic thing, 1:11:04.080 --> 1:11:06.960 and I definitely do do it for the money as well. 1:11:07.040 --> 1:11:11.040 But um, I've always managed to never have to do 1:11:11.080 --> 1:11:12.880 it as much as everyone else has had to do 1:11:12.880 --> 1:11:16.400 it because you've had other income streams. But assuming you 1:11:16.439 --> 1:11:19.200 did want to do it, there's enough workout there for 1:11:19.240 --> 1:11:22.320 you to work do hundred nights a year. Not now, 1:11:22.640 --> 1:11:24.240 I wouldn't think, not unless I want to do some 1:11:24.320 --> 1:11:27.720 really rubbishy things that um that wouldn't enjoy. So I 1:11:27.800 --> 1:11:30.800 try and try, and I mean it's there's always this 1:11:30.840 --> 1:11:33.080 thing of and it's it's the same for if you're, 1:11:34.360 --> 1:11:37.240 you know, a musician in any genre of music doing 1:11:37.240 --> 1:11:38.439 it as long as I've done it, you have to. 1:11:38.479 --> 1:11:40.639 There's a certain amount of reinvention you have to go through. 1:11:40.720 --> 1:11:43.720 But I think I've been lucky that my curiosity for 1:11:43.760 --> 1:11:46.080 the new and the next, and the fidgit nous of 1:11:46.240 --> 1:11:51.960 always thinking looking around the corner um has kept me 1:11:52.120 --> 1:11:54.280 current like that. It's just it's just the way I am, 1:11:54.360 --> 1:11:57.000 you know. Okay, So have you been one of those 1:11:57.080 --> 1:12:00.479 DJs you know, I travel with a USBs Dick, I 1:12:00.600 --> 1:12:03.519 get on the private jet. I'm going somewhere else. Has 1:12:03.560 --> 1:12:07.200 that been your Have you lived that lifestyle a little bit? Nothing? 1:12:07.520 --> 1:12:11.559 I was a bit like um my, my era of 1:12:11.720 --> 1:12:18.679 true superstardom came a time where the money was still 1:12:18.720 --> 1:12:23.760 pretty crazy, but the travel wasn't. I was just before that, 1:12:23.880 --> 1:12:26.839 like so I'm talking about like mid two mid nineties 1:12:26.880 --> 1:12:29.920 to mid two thousand's was probably the purple patch for me, 1:12:30.040 --> 1:12:32.200 when I was like number one on poles and all 1:12:32.240 --> 1:12:34.920 sorts of things, and then the money. Don't get me wrong, 1:12:34.920 --> 1:12:37.040 the money was still good, but we weren't doing what 1:12:37.080 --> 1:12:40.400 they It's a bit like football, you know, if you're 1:12:40.400 --> 1:12:43.320 George Best, you know it's amazing, right until like twenty 1:12:43.400 --> 1:12:45.439 years later there's David Beckham and you realize that you're 1:12:45.479 --> 1:12:49.000 earning like a tenth or a hundredth of what they're earning. 1:12:49.000 --> 1:12:50.559 And it's been a bit like that for me. So 1:12:51.360 --> 1:12:54.040 I still, you know, you still do well out of it, 1:12:54.080 --> 1:12:56.200 and yes, I've used I used private jets when I 1:12:56.200 --> 1:12:58.720 have to do. But for me, you know, there was 1:12:58.760 --> 1:13:01.240 there was some times in a beef during the residency 1:13:01.360 --> 1:13:05.360 period when I before I moved to America. Um, there 1:13:05.439 --> 1:13:08.439 was one year, two years actually where I I was 1:13:08.479 --> 1:13:11.040 given a private jet every week for eighteen weeks for 1:13:11.120 --> 1:13:13.280 two years, like to do the whole season. So they 1:13:13.280 --> 1:13:16.639 would would be on Radio one until at nine o'clock 1:13:16.680 --> 1:13:19.360 at night on a Friday, and then I would we 1:13:20.120 --> 1:13:24.519 drive to the the airport and get a plane, do 1:13:24.680 --> 1:13:28.280 the gig, and then yeah, come back the next day. 1:13:28.320 --> 1:13:30.920 So UM, that was how when did you get and 1:13:31.000 --> 1:13:35.120 how did you get the BBC gig? The BBC gig 1:13:35.360 --> 1:13:39.800 was so we're going back to We're wind back to 1:13:39.840 --> 1:13:43.360 the eighties again. So again I didn't use that word 1:13:43.479 --> 1:13:46.080 entrepreneurial at the time, but I guess looking back I 1:13:46.240 --> 1:13:47.720 was because it was like, well, how am I going 1:13:47.760 --> 1:13:49.439 to get involved in this music? I don't want to 1:13:49.439 --> 1:13:52.200 be UM, I don't want to be a breakfast show 1:13:52.280 --> 1:13:54.920 DJ playing pop records. But I love this music. So 1:13:54.960 --> 1:13:56.720 I just want to share this music with as many 1:13:56.720 --> 1:14:00.200 people as possible. And the people are in for It's 1:14:00.280 --> 1:14:02.400 me the most in terms of shaping who I was 1:14:02.439 --> 1:14:04.040 as a DJ. With these guys, I was hearing on 1:14:04.040 --> 1:14:07.439 the radio playing specialist music, so it was a natural 1:14:07.479 --> 1:14:08.960 thing for me to like, well, I I want to 1:14:08.960 --> 1:14:11.519 do that. I used to sit at home listening to 1:14:11.680 --> 1:14:14.720 the radio, writing down what people said, writing down their names, 1:14:14.720 --> 1:14:17.000 of all the records, and I just got obsessed with it. 1:14:17.080 --> 1:14:20.840 So I got when I was at the magazine, I 1:14:20.880 --> 1:14:24.400 was already I was dabbling with like local radio, pirate radio, UM, 1:14:24.520 --> 1:14:27.920 anything I could do to get on UM and a 1:14:28.080 --> 1:14:32.200 weird twist of luck fate. Whatever is This guy Froggy 1:14:32.240 --> 1:14:35.040 I told you about, had the equipment he used to do. 1:14:35.200 --> 1:14:38.240 He used to provide the equipment for Radio one road shows, 1:14:38.560 --> 1:14:41.600 so when Radio one did an outside broadcast, he'd be 1:14:41.640 --> 1:14:43.880 the guy that would do the equipment. He then got 1:14:43.920 --> 1:14:46.120 to know some of the producers there and some of 1:14:46.120 --> 1:14:48.040 the DJs there, And there was this DJ called Peter 1:14:48.120 --> 1:14:53.560 Powell who was the drive time DJ, and he was 1:14:53.680 --> 1:14:56.880 very progressive with the music policy, very curious about you know. 1:14:56.920 --> 1:14:59.759 He was the one that broke Spandel Ballet and Duran 1:14:59.840 --> 1:15:03.920 ju around and Malcolm McLaren all these things. And he 1:15:04.200 --> 1:15:07.800 wanted to have a proper street DJ come onto his 1:15:07.880 --> 1:15:11.719 show on a weekly basis and give them some tips. 1:15:11.760 --> 1:15:14.120 That was a feature he was doing. And it turned 1:15:14.120 --> 1:15:19.120 out that UM Froggy was was very technical and he 1:15:19.200 --> 1:15:23.879 was very good with with with mixing records together, so technical, 1:15:23.920 --> 1:15:27.040 but the content like sometimes he didn't have the time 1:15:27.080 --> 1:15:29.240 to find the records. So who did he call me? 1:15:29.640 --> 1:15:31.760 So I was at the magazine getting all this music 1:15:31.840 --> 1:15:34.240 and going around all the shops. So his feed fun 1:15:34.320 --> 1:15:36.920 froggy music. But lo and behold, what quickly happened is 1:15:37.000 --> 1:15:39.880 that they start inviting me as well to go up 1:15:39.880 --> 1:15:43.479 to Radio one. So there I am at night and 1:15:43.479 --> 1:15:47.679 I'm going on to primetime BBC Radio one, giving them 1:15:47.680 --> 1:15:50.640 tips of my records. And I thought, this is like, 1:15:51.360 --> 1:15:54.479 literally I've literally gone from zero to and I literally 1:15:54.520 --> 1:15:55.640 after a couple of years of that, it was like, 1:15:55.680 --> 1:15:57.400 will give me a job, giving me my own show? 1:15:57.439 --> 1:15:58.880 It's like no, tap me on the head. So you've 1:15:58.880 --> 1:16:00.639 got to go away and get some more experienced son. 1:16:00.720 --> 1:16:03.120 You know, you can't just jump to the you know 1:16:03.200 --> 1:16:06.320 the Manchester United, Real Madrid, you know l A, you 1:16:06.400 --> 1:16:11.000 know the forty nine. The biggest football club is um 1:16:11.040 --> 1:16:13.519 and so I I went back out and I U 1:16:13.680 --> 1:16:15.479 but I used that calling card of having been on 1:16:15.560 --> 1:16:18.960 Radio one. It's kind as leverage to get onto commercial 1:16:19.040 --> 1:16:21.599 radio and Kent and then I was on Radio London 1:16:21.600 --> 1:16:23.599 which is a BBC station. And I got into Capital 1:16:23.640 --> 1:16:27.439 with Richard park Um just as house music and the 1:16:27.520 --> 1:16:30.240 rave scene exploded. So I was the Saturday night dance 1:16:30.280 --> 1:16:33.200 guy on the biggest radio station in London and I 1:16:33.240 --> 1:16:36.000 was there for four years um and then I was 1:16:36.040 --> 1:16:39.800 like the number one draft choice when that guy Jeff 1:16:39.880 --> 1:16:43.080 Young I told you about, retired and I then got 1:16:43.080 --> 1:16:45.400 moved to Radio one. So I joined Radio one in 1:16:45.760 --> 1:16:48.360 one and been there ever since. Now in America, nothing 1:16:48.439 --> 1:16:51.040 likes a lot. Is that the age? Is that you? 1:16:51.280 --> 1:16:54.679 Or is that BBC? I think it's a bit of both. 1:16:54.800 --> 1:17:00.120 I think, um, there's nothing like the BBC globally unfortunately. Um, 1:17:00.160 --> 1:17:04.320 you know, just public service radio that wants to be 1:17:04.360 --> 1:17:06.720 popular is an unusual thing. You know, you've got these 1:17:06.760 --> 1:17:09.800 Triple j's in Australia and things like that, but and 1:17:09.840 --> 1:17:13.760 you've got an MPR here, but nothing nothing like what 1:17:13.840 --> 1:17:16.160 the Radio one have done, you know, from and they 1:17:16.160 --> 1:17:18.959 get battered, you know, they get battered on a annual 1:17:19.360 --> 1:17:22.880 monthly basis by the conservative press that they shouldn't be 1:17:22.920 --> 1:17:28.439 there on across all disciplines of the BBC, from you know, news, sports, drama, 1:17:28.520 --> 1:17:31.680 everything but radio. Thank god, it's been there and it's 1:17:31.680 --> 1:17:34.760 been you know, it's still it's brilliant, but it's still 1:17:34.800 --> 1:17:36.519 saddens me a little bit. I mean in terms of 1:17:36.560 --> 1:17:40.559 moving the needle in in UM, especially for dance music, 1:17:40.600 --> 1:17:43.000 electronic music. It's still does it better than anything in 1:17:43.040 --> 1:17:45.240 the world, which is great but actually also kind of 1:17:45.800 --> 1:17:49.479 a bit weird. But you also have a show on iHeart, 1:17:49.560 --> 1:17:52.479 right what I did actually that ended, that ended, and 1:17:52.840 --> 1:17:55.840 it was you know, it was enjoyable. I got introduced 1:17:55.880 --> 1:17:59.000 to UM that I met all the senior people in 1:18:00.000 --> 1:18:05.240 Bob Pittman, right, and in a bether actually through Pino Sagliocca, 1:18:05.680 --> 1:18:09.880 remember there doing a very famous live Nation promoter and 1:18:09.920 --> 1:18:12.960 they and they would you know, I think Bob's sun 1:18:13.080 --> 1:18:15.040 was enjoying a beether and everything like that is anyway 1:18:15.080 --> 1:18:17.040 that Pete Songs, your guy like Pete Songs should do 1:18:17.080 --> 1:18:19.400 a dance show. And I did it for a while, 1:18:19.400 --> 1:18:22.400 but it was a bit it was, you know, good 1:18:22.439 --> 1:18:24.200 people around me, but it was a little bit soulless. 1:18:24.680 --> 1:18:26.760 I just found it. I don't know, no disrespect to 1:18:26.760 --> 1:18:29.320 our heart, but it's that it's just that thing of 1:18:29.360 --> 1:18:33.680 like it's a commercial radio station, commercial model, and it's 1:18:33.920 --> 1:18:37.519 the commercial model for music. It's always been a struggle 1:18:37.560 --> 1:18:41.880 in this country to do specialist dance radio. And I 1:18:42.360 --> 1:18:44.920 want to point out the read and the simple thing being. 1:18:45.000 --> 1:18:47.160 You know, I used to go to New York City, 1:18:47.160 --> 1:18:49.360 as I said, it's a sitting hotel rooms and I 1:18:49.360 --> 1:18:53.400 would listen to Frankie Crocker, w b Less, Timmy Registered, 1:18:53.720 --> 1:18:58.000 Massive Respect, Merlin Bob. You know, these guys trained me, 1:18:58.200 --> 1:19:01.080 taught me so much when I was a kid about 1:19:01.360 --> 1:19:04.200 dance radio and mixed radio, and I wouldn't be here 1:19:04.240 --> 1:19:06.799 without them, and they were. They were on American stations, 1:19:06.840 --> 1:19:11.760 but um sat sadly most outside of obviously, you know, 1:19:12.479 --> 1:19:16.800 the metropolis of New York City being so big, no 1:19:16.800 --> 1:19:19.479 no other you know, mixed show radios on the American 1:19:19.560 --> 1:19:22.080 radio tend to happen after midnight or super you know. 1:19:22.360 --> 1:19:24.280 The whole power of Radio One was like Pete Tong 1:19:24.360 --> 1:19:27.320 was on at six pm on a Friday night, you know, 1:19:28.000 --> 1:19:31.240 and they and he stayed there for you know, I'm 1:19:31.280 --> 1:19:33.360 still on a Friday night. I'm on a bit later now. 1:19:33.400 --> 1:19:37.920 I start at nine and two hours for my show 1:19:37.960 --> 1:19:41.320 and two hours hosting the essential mix later in the night, 1:19:41.560 --> 1:19:43.479 and it's all gone to like listen again and BBC 1:19:43.640 --> 1:19:46.479 sounds and you know it's like it's a different model now. 1:19:47.080 --> 1:19:49.760 But to be on basically at six o'clock at night 1:19:49.880 --> 1:19:52.840 for twenty years at least, Um, that's what made it 1:19:52.840 --> 1:19:54.760 so powerful. That's why it moved. You're living in l 1:19:54.800 --> 1:19:58.600 a oh that's prerecorded now now it's I do it 1:19:58.640 --> 1:20:01.440 at home. You know, it's smoke and mirrors and technology, 1:20:01.479 --> 1:20:03.200 thank god. And when I'm in London, I do it live. 1:20:03.280 --> 1:20:06.240 So I'd still got back quite regular. Okay, best gig 1:20:06.320 --> 1:20:12.200 you've ever had foo Probably Love Parade um was one 1:20:12.200 --> 1:20:14.600 of them, doing in Berlin when it still happened, you know, 1:20:14.680 --> 1:20:16.600 being I was one of the first ever Brits to 1:20:16.640 --> 1:20:20.080 be invited to play at the monument Um and there 1:20:20.120 --> 1:20:21.920 was a million people on the streets. So that would 1:20:21.960 --> 1:20:24.240 Love Paraders where they had the accident all the people 1:20:24.280 --> 1:20:28.760 died right um in Germany where they were ultimately going 1:20:28.800 --> 1:20:30.880 through the tunnel. I don't know if it was still 1:20:30.920 --> 1:20:35.200 the Love Parade then, but maybe okay parade was an 1:20:35.200 --> 1:20:38.960 open street in what year was that, um? That must 1:20:39.000 --> 1:20:42.120 have been early nineties. Um, So what made it a 1:20:42.280 --> 1:20:47.160 great well being playing to so many people and it 1:20:47.280 --> 1:20:49.920 being a kind of historic thing and we did we 1:20:50.080 --> 1:20:54.439 we we recorded it for Radio One as well. Um 1:20:54.479 --> 1:20:56.519 so it's just I just obviously one of those things 1:20:56.560 --> 1:20:59.640 that will never happen again. And we tried to replicate 1:20:59.680 --> 1:21:03.080 it in UK. We did a UK Love Parade and 1:21:03.120 --> 1:21:06.320 there was one in Leads in a place called round 1:21:06.320 --> 1:21:09.840 Hay Park and that we got two fifty people and 1:21:09.840 --> 1:21:12.439 it was me and Sasha and Darren Emerson from Underworld 1:21:12.479 --> 1:21:15.479 on stage at the end. That was that was truly special, 1:21:15.520 --> 1:21:18.840 but unfortunately a lot of people's gardens got trampled and 1:21:18.880 --> 1:21:22.599 like people were and then We've Got We've Got moved 1:21:22.640 --> 1:21:24.559 to Newcastle the next year and it was a very 1:21:24.600 --> 1:21:28.839 toned down version and it never quite worked. Um Space 1:21:29.520 --> 1:21:31.960 a beefing, you know, all those beef clubs, having got 1:21:32.000 --> 1:21:34.080 to play them, all of them at some point, will 1:21:34.120 --> 1:21:38.680 always be special. South America is really good. Argentina in 1:21:38.720 --> 1:21:41.880 particular in my wife's Brazilian but Argentina is probably the 1:21:41.920 --> 1:21:45.719 most the true natural home to kind of electronic music. 1:21:46.280 --> 1:21:48.920 You know, it's I've played some pretty special shows in 1:21:49.000 --> 1:21:52.240 Chilean and Brazil, but Argentina is something about that the 1:21:52.320 --> 1:21:55.080 kind of mentality down there and then America. You know, 1:21:55.120 --> 1:21:57.599 the US has been pretty amazing as well. I mean, 1:21:57.600 --> 1:22:01.679 Miami might as well be another country as that's it's 1:22:02.240 --> 1:22:05.479 that's you know, so mixed down there, especially during conference time, 1:22:05.520 --> 1:22:07.720 you know, in that Miami Music Week. That's that. You've 1:22:07.760 --> 1:22:11.200 got some great memories there. And Space in Miami is 1:22:11.240 --> 1:22:14.120 probably the closest. Who was the first club to ever 1:22:14.200 --> 1:22:17.800 be remotely like a beether And to this day, funny enough, 1:22:18.200 --> 1:22:19.960 it's more like a beether and the bether is now 1:22:20.000 --> 1:22:22.920 because Space Miami does go pretty much twenty four hours. 1:22:22.920 --> 1:22:27.960 So okay, most exotic place you've ever played, um Borakai 1:22:28.120 --> 1:22:31.120 maybe in the Philippines. Um you got to look it 1:22:31.160 --> 1:22:33.400 up and yeah, I don't even know what that is. 1:22:33.520 --> 1:22:36.200 That's like a very long plane ride but followed by 1:22:36.400 --> 1:22:38.680 two small planes in a boat, so you get to 1:22:38.760 --> 1:22:43.080 like desert island. And I did this party in the 1:22:43.160 --> 1:22:46.439 days when cigarette companies were still allowed in some corner 1:22:46.479 --> 1:22:48.479 of the world to sponsor parties. And it was me 1:22:48.560 --> 1:22:52.519 and Almond van Helden Todd Terry funny enough, and it 1:22:52.600 --> 1:22:55.120 was on a beach, sand in your shoes, you know, 1:22:55.240 --> 1:22:57.840 and it was that was pretty exotic. So what's the 1:22:57.840 --> 1:23:00.320 biggest p day you've had for a d G gig 1:23:01.320 --> 1:23:12.360 Um New Year's Eve, Um probably seven figures. No, No, 1:23:12.360 --> 1:23:14.360 I think back then it was it was six figures, 1:23:14.360 --> 1:23:19.080 but it was, which is still pretty big. But um, yeah, okay, 1:23:19.080 --> 1:23:21.839 now I'm not Yeah. I mean does the music excite 1:23:21.840 --> 1:23:24.280 you as much today as it did back in your 1:23:24.320 --> 1:23:35.320 formative years in hey day? Hard to yes, yes and no. Um, 1:23:35.400 --> 1:23:37.960 I worry something, you know. I was talking to the 1:23:37.960 --> 1:23:43.519 guys that Splice about this this morning about how, you know, 1:23:44.320 --> 1:23:48.880 the ultimate you know, electronic music probably more than any 1:23:48.880 --> 1:23:51.800 other form of music. It's been so democratized, you know, 1:23:51.880 --> 1:23:54.759 every you know, the barriers to entry and completely removed 1:23:55.200 --> 1:23:58.559 so everyone can make music. It's amazing. Everyone can publish 1:23:58.600 --> 1:24:01.120 their music on SoundCloud and obviously we talked about all 1:24:01.120 --> 1:24:05.599 the streaming services um and the keys have been handed 1:24:05.600 --> 1:24:07.400 over of the asylum as they used to say. But 1:24:07.439 --> 1:24:10.639 the downside of it is it almost seems harder and 1:24:11.040 --> 1:24:13.800 you know, to get to the Triple A list at 1:24:13.800 --> 1:24:16.680 the very top. That that worries me a little bit. 1:24:16.720 --> 1:24:18.920 You know, it's very easy to make a very good 1:24:18.920 --> 1:24:22.200 record now you know, it's it's it's almost impossible to 1:24:22.240 --> 1:24:26.120 make a genius record, you know that dance music with 1:24:26.120 --> 1:24:28.840 the sample packs and like if you know you can 1:24:28.840 --> 1:24:32.599 make you can make that something sound pretty convincing forgetting 1:24:32.680 --> 1:24:34.920 the people who get in at the bottom, you know, 1:24:35.000 --> 1:24:41.000 the semi pros. Uh, if you are at the top tier, 1:24:41.040 --> 1:24:44.760 are there fewer genius records than before? I think so? Yeah, 1:24:45.000 --> 1:24:46.840 I think so. I mean there's no disrespect to some 1:24:47.040 --> 1:24:49.880 you know I did. Yeah, we haven't had you know 1:24:49.960 --> 1:24:52.680 that that era of the Prodigy and Underworld and you 1:24:52.720 --> 1:24:57.639 know Orbital and um, you know we staft punk even 1:24:57.680 --> 1:25:00.679 now is a long time ago. Um, so I think 1:25:00.760 --> 1:25:03.920 the yeah that you know, I'm I'm kind of waiting, 1:25:04.000 --> 1:25:06.200 you know, we're all you know, the fishing nets are 1:25:06.240 --> 1:25:09.840 out in all stripes of music. I would use a 1:25:09.880 --> 1:25:12.960 similar description. And uh, and what I would label popular 1:25:13.040 --> 1:25:17.960 music the Spotify top fifty especially certainly a narrow genre. 1:25:18.400 --> 1:25:22.720 So who do you believe are the most artistically successful 1:25:23.160 --> 1:25:33.920 DJs working today? It's a big question board. Um whoa 1:25:35.000 --> 1:25:37.559 that that there's a there was a fork in the 1:25:37.640 --> 1:25:42.960 road somewhere during the E d M era where the 1:25:42.479 --> 1:25:47.200 the what the ranking system from success it was was 1:25:47.240 --> 1:25:50.599 two different paths. So you've got the music makers, you know, 1:25:51.200 --> 1:25:55.200 the pop producer writers, so and whether you like their 1:25:55.280 --> 1:25:57.599 music or not, you have to give them credit. And 1:25:57.800 --> 1:26:02.200 you know, from David is a good friend of mine, 1:26:03.120 --> 1:26:06.120 even you know, Marshmallow as well to Sathing did come 1:26:06.160 --> 1:26:08.920 from our world and gone and gone into the stratosphere 1:26:08.920 --> 1:26:11.840 of another world. And I think, you know, I wasn't 1:26:11.840 --> 1:26:14.120 particularly a Marshmallow fan at the start of what is music, 1:26:14.120 --> 1:26:17.240 but I'm a big fan of what he's achieved in 1:26:17.360 --> 1:26:21.120 terms of the impact and influence and consistency that he's 1:26:21.120 --> 1:26:22.840 been able to have at the very kind of top 1:26:22.880 --> 1:26:25.840 tier of the pop table. So I think that's worth 1:26:25.920 --> 1:26:31.559 the props. Um. On the underground electronic side, there's there's 1:26:31.560 --> 1:26:35.679 some amazing you know, the highest paid, I should say, 1:26:35.720 --> 1:26:38.920 and that's because they sell the most tickets. Um are 1:26:38.920 --> 1:26:42.639 people like Solomon and Black Coffee and Tail of Us 1:26:42.640 --> 1:26:46.760 and Marco Corolla, UM and the and the Rise of 1:26:46.800 --> 1:26:49.160 the Girls. You know, it's it's amazing to see you know, 1:26:49.200 --> 1:26:53.880 Peggy Goo, Charlotte de Witter, Emily Lens, Nina Kravitz, Um. 1:26:55.160 --> 1:26:59.760 We've probably seen the biggest game change in the underground 1:26:59.760 --> 1:27:02.519 world in the last five years, you know, truly the 1:27:02.960 --> 1:27:07.320 the the key, you know, the batons being moved on 1:27:07.360 --> 1:27:09.479 to a new generation and a new and a new 1:27:09.520 --> 1:27:11.080 and a new look, you know. And the fact that 1:27:11.200 --> 1:27:14.880 female DJs and and female electronic musicians are having such 1:27:14.880 --> 1:27:17.759 a massive impact is is great. Now do you equate 1:27:17.840 --> 1:27:21.000 those people who are getting the big paychecks, are those 1:27:21.160 --> 1:27:25.200 also the people pushing the envelope artistically? Yeah? I think so. 1:27:25.439 --> 1:27:27.960 I mean with the underground, you don't get there by. 1:27:28.080 --> 1:27:30.160 You get there because you earn the right to be there. 1:27:30.200 --> 1:27:32.040 It's like so it's like being in the trenches. You know, 1:27:32.080 --> 1:27:35.400 it's like being a stage actor. Um, you have to 1:27:35.439 --> 1:27:39.120 go and press the flesh, tread the boards, do the work, 1:27:39.600 --> 1:27:41.360 and you get to the top of the tree because 1:27:41.400 --> 1:27:44.240 people think you're really really good and you and you 1:27:44.320 --> 1:27:46.559 continue to innovate with your sets. They've all got their 1:27:46.560 --> 1:27:50.800 own labels, they're all championing another generation of musicians. They've 1:27:50.800 --> 1:27:53.920 all got their own sound. Um. So I think that's 1:27:53.920 --> 1:27:57.200 a very healthy ecosystem, except for the actual person doing it. 1:27:57.240 --> 1:28:02.320 I mean it's hard. It's it's frontline, you know, in 1:28:02.360 --> 1:28:05.639 the trenches work and and the underground is not, Um, 1:28:05.720 --> 1:28:07.800 it's not it's not turning up and playing an hour 1:28:07.840 --> 1:28:10.800 at E d C. It's often playing you know for 1:28:10.880 --> 1:28:14.360 ten hours, um, seven hours, six hours, you know, the 1:28:14.520 --> 1:28:16.960 big long sets and after parties, and you know, the 1:28:17.080 --> 1:28:20.520 legends around those guys is almost dude down to their endurance. 1:28:20.560 --> 1:28:24.599 You know. I was interloom Um a couple of days ago, 1:28:24.640 --> 1:28:27.639 because that's become early January has become a time when 1:28:27.640 --> 1:28:30.200 all of the underground guys flocked there and there's all 1:28:30.240 --> 1:28:34.000 these big parties um. And as I was leaving, Solomon 1:28:34.000 --> 1:28:38.040 played his party the night before we left. And then 1:28:38.040 --> 1:28:40.160 when I got back here, I heard the guy at 1:28:40.160 --> 1:28:43.840 my hotel said, old Solomon's doing his after party today. 1:28:43.920 --> 1:28:46.559 And when I got back, and then two days later 1:28:46.600 --> 1:28:51.240 someone said it just finished. So it's like it's it's 1:28:51.320 --> 1:28:54.559 it's heavy, you know, and it's some but I guess 1:28:54.600 --> 1:28:58.439 it's about as rock and roll, you know. Well, it's 1:28:58.880 --> 1:29:00.439 kind of the punk end of if you want to 1:29:00.479 --> 1:29:03.479 use that analogy, it's like the punk end of of 1:29:03.520 --> 1:29:08.320 our world. Um. And you know, I hope rather than 1:29:08.360 --> 1:29:11.200 just headonism, good stuff comes out of it, you know. So, okay, 1:29:11.200 --> 1:29:14.280 how about this hasn't been something reading about recently, the 1:29:14.400 --> 1:29:19.960 concept that people are just standing on stage pushing buttons. Yeah, 1:29:19.960 --> 1:29:21.439 I mean some some of them are and they push 1:29:21.439 --> 1:29:23.160 a lot of buttons in the right order and it's great. 1:29:24.160 --> 1:29:27.400 So I think, um, you know that Analogy was all 1:29:27.439 --> 1:29:32.280 about pre pre organized sets. But you know I was 1:29:32.640 --> 1:29:35.519 being you know, having obviously being behind the scenes, I 1:29:35.560 --> 1:29:39.240 can clearly see you know, this was about music makers 1:29:39.240 --> 1:29:41.960 playing their own music and getting booked at bigger and 1:29:41.960 --> 1:29:45.080 bigger and bigger events and having more and more responsibility 1:29:45.160 --> 1:29:48.599 to kind of blow everybody's mind. And in the case 1:29:48.640 --> 1:29:51.360 of Swedish House Matthew who definitely wrote the book on 1:29:51.400 --> 1:29:55.880 it first, um, it starts to get into choreograph shows, 1:29:55.880 --> 1:29:59.040 you know, and you're spending you know, hundreds of thousands 1:29:59.080 --> 1:30:03.640 of dollars on a visual experience. They took it to 1:30:03.680 --> 1:30:06.160 another level, you know, they bought that kind of you 1:30:06.360 --> 1:30:09.960 two level of production into the electronic world. And I 1:30:10.000 --> 1:30:13.960 always say hats off to him because they were the first. 1:30:13.960 --> 1:30:15.879 I mean, Tiesto was going around, you know, Paul Oakenfoll 1:30:16.000 --> 1:30:18.240 was doing it first, you know, to a certain extent. 1:30:18.400 --> 1:30:20.360 Tiesto took it to a whole another level. Arm and 1:30:20.400 --> 1:30:22.840 Vambera and all these guys. But you know, and the 1:30:22.880 --> 1:30:24.880 show has got bigger and bigger and bigger, and and 1:30:24.920 --> 1:30:30.120 they were still essentially djaying and there still was, um 1:30:30.240 --> 1:30:32.760 a sense of Tiesto didn't know what he was going 1:30:32.800 --> 1:30:35.360 to play in what order. You know. He had a box, 1:30:35.520 --> 1:30:37.800 you know, and he had a selection and he had 1:30:37.800 --> 1:30:40.240 his favorites, and he was a smart DJ, so he 1:30:40.320 --> 1:30:42.519 knew how to make the crowd go crazy and stuff 1:30:42.520 --> 1:30:44.880 like that. But but there still was an element of 1:30:44.920 --> 1:30:46.519 free willing what he could do, and he could make 1:30:46.520 --> 1:30:50.360 a last minute decision and change something. And then the 1:30:50.360 --> 1:30:54.040 Swedish House Mafia era where they start doing Milton Keene's Bowl, 1:30:54.560 --> 1:30:56.320 which was unheard of in the UK for a bunch 1:30:56.320 --> 1:31:00.479 of DJs playing to you know, eighty thousand people or whatever. Um. 1:31:00.520 --> 1:31:02.680 You know, then you've got to have a U two 1:31:02.800 --> 1:31:07.000 type rolling Stones stage and you've got to put films 1:31:07.080 --> 1:31:09.280 on and they've got to tie in with the with 1:31:09.320 --> 1:31:12.320 the music you're playing and the lights and the explosions. 1:31:12.320 --> 1:31:13.680 We've got a golf at the right time. So you 1:31:13.720 --> 1:31:15.840 get into that thing that you can't change the order. 1:31:16.360 --> 1:31:18.120 You know, you can change the order maybe before the 1:31:18.120 --> 1:31:19.960 show starts, you know, a couple of days to tell 1:31:20.000 --> 1:31:22.400 the visuals guy but you can't just change the order. 1:31:22.840 --> 1:31:24.640 And that's where that comes from, you know. And I 1:31:24.720 --> 1:31:28.439 think Dead Mouse, to a certain extent, you know, fueled 1:31:28.479 --> 1:31:32.400 that as well, because he clearly was never really playing records. 1:31:32.439 --> 1:31:34.439 But you know, the guy was playing back his own 1:31:34.520 --> 1:31:36.960 music and reinterpreting it in different ways. So okay, when 1:31:36.960 --> 1:31:39.880 you played, you playing it advance? How do you do it? 1:31:39.960 --> 1:31:42.439 You spin records. I've come through the full cycle of 1:31:42.479 --> 1:31:46.720 like vinyl into CDs, into playing off the laptop with 1:31:46.760 --> 1:31:49.160 all of the software when it all started, like Ableton 1:31:49.200 --> 1:31:52.360 and Tractor and Serato and stuff like that, and and 1:31:52.400 --> 1:31:55.559 I've gone full circle back to um. Yeah, I carry 1:31:55.600 --> 1:31:58.720 around a couple of big drives like that, and I 1:31:58.800 --> 1:32:02.519 plug him into CD players and I don't have pre 1:32:02.640 --> 1:32:05.760 planned sets. No, I'll do some sets that will be 1:32:05.880 --> 1:32:07.680 quite similar, you know, two or three days in a row, 1:32:07.720 --> 1:32:09.360 but I'll change things around. So I'm still doing it 1:32:09.439 --> 1:32:12.760 old school. It's with the orchestra that I've got into 1:32:12.800 --> 1:32:15.120 that hole. And we you know, the orchestra week we 1:32:15.200 --> 1:32:18.040 can we can change a few things. We changed songs 1:32:18.400 --> 1:32:21.840 night by night, but we have um that that's more 1:32:21.920 --> 1:32:24.160 like it's not pressing buttons, but its well as they 1:32:24.200 --> 1:32:29.240 has to be, you know, all the York rib so 1:32:29.240 --> 1:32:32.080 so I've you know, so I'm still djening old school 1:32:32.120 --> 1:32:36.360 in that sense. Yeah, all gone thumbs up, thumbs down, 1:32:37.000 --> 1:32:40.760 what the film thumbs up? Okay, But the concept using it, 1:32:40.760 --> 1:32:43.360 it's like, you know, we talked about Howard Stern and 1:32:43.400 --> 1:32:44.880 they have hit him with a high and I know 1:32:45.000 --> 1:32:49.120 John Hind heats it. So I always loved it. It 1:32:49.160 --> 1:32:52.800 was it was a it was meant to be. It was. 1:32:52.880 --> 1:32:55.120 It was a fanzine in the UK called Boys Zone 1:32:55.960 --> 1:32:59.160 who were made some mine actually, but they were very stroppy, 1:32:59.360 --> 1:33:02.839 kind of like angry men, and they started this fanzine 1:33:02.840 --> 1:33:04.960 and the whole point of the fanzine was basically like 1:33:05.360 --> 1:33:08.639 fuck it, you know, it was to get in there 1:33:08.640 --> 1:33:10.640 and like stir of shipped up and so they'd be 1:33:10.720 --> 1:33:12.800 rude about everybody and that. And I was djaying with 1:33:12.840 --> 1:33:14.439 these guys and they were that's the way they were 1:33:14.520 --> 1:33:16.400 rude about me. And it was meant to be a 1:33:16.560 --> 1:33:18.559 way of winding me up at the start because I 1:33:18.680 --> 1:33:21.479 was you know, there was a thing in the UK 1:33:21.640 --> 1:33:25.719 with if you were around before the year zero, which 1:33:25.760 --> 1:33:28.240 was basically when house music started, then you were a 1:33:28.280 --> 1:33:30.479 Dinosaur and the fact that I was in the soul 1:33:30.520 --> 1:33:32.639 boy era before and a bit of the hip hop era. 1:33:33.400 --> 1:33:36.360 They they were like, what are you doing? Is it's 1:33:36.400 --> 1:33:37.880 all gone pizza on? So it was like it was 1:33:37.920 --> 1:33:41.120 this and then it caught on. It became later on 1:33:41.240 --> 1:33:44.840 like cockney rhyming slang and in the Penguin Dictionary and 1:33:44.840 --> 1:33:48.160 all this stuff, and then you know, it's notoriety. It 1:33:48.240 --> 1:33:50.439 was like, you know, it was. It was fantastic. And 1:33:50.439 --> 1:33:53.000 then to end up having a movie made of that 1:33:53.080 --> 1:33:54.920 name was that just took it to another level. So 1:33:55.040 --> 1:33:56.880 now we are now I have my own parties. You know, 1:33:56.920 --> 1:33:58.040 we would call it you know, we do it in 1:33:58.080 --> 1:34:00.000 Miami and we do it around the world. It's all 1:34:00.000 --> 1:34:02.560 on Pete songs. It was good. Okay, So what is 1:34:02.600 --> 1:34:04.479 the future hall for you? What is the dream that's 1:34:04.520 --> 1:34:07.720 like you've obviously achieved so much and unexpected, like you 1:34:07.720 --> 1:34:11.000 know with the BBC at age nineteen, What what would 1:34:11.000 --> 1:34:13.679 you like to achieve or do in the future, whether 1:34:13.680 --> 1:34:16.320 it be music oriented or not. Well, for me, it's 1:34:16.320 --> 1:34:20.360 always come to music discovery and curation. So it's it's 1:34:20.439 --> 1:34:24.280 finding a way, I guess of moving into this next 1:34:24.320 --> 1:34:27.439 decade gracefully and still being out the work. I'm blessed 1:34:27.479 --> 1:34:31.840 with that and be healthy, um and just I guess 1:34:31.920 --> 1:34:35.120 try and use my whole life's worth of experience in 1:34:35.160 --> 1:34:40.280 A in a positive way. UM and hopefully still try 1:34:40.320 --> 1:34:42.560 and not. I'm back into like the A and R 1:34:42.600 --> 1:34:45.400 gig again. I just joined three zero with Mark Llespie. 1:34:45.439 --> 1:34:49.679 It's Calvin Harris's manager, um, and we've rebooted his label 1:34:49.760 --> 1:34:51.920 through Sony. So I was, I was. I did go 1:34:52.000 --> 1:34:56.400 back into the Warner system for a few years. UM, 1:34:56.439 --> 1:34:59.160 but my curiosity is back again about A and R, 1:34:59.240 --> 1:35:02.160 about being act more hands on. I think funny recording 1:35:02.200 --> 1:35:04.040 the albums with the orchestra and being back in the 1:35:04.080 --> 1:35:07.480 studio hands on. I mean, I had this great education 1:35:08.040 --> 1:35:10.360 and met all these amazing people. You know, I was 1:35:10.400 --> 1:35:13.080 at the end of the you know, Tommy Mottola, water 1:35:13.160 --> 1:35:15.559 yet Ni Cough, you know Berry Gordy, you know with 1:35:16.520 --> 1:35:18.280 I've met so many people in my time. You know, 1:35:18.280 --> 1:35:20.160 I worked with Chris Morris as Chris Thomas in the 1:35:20.200 --> 1:35:23.800 studio making records, you know, Um, and I kind of 1:35:23.840 --> 1:35:26.840 missed it. So I think, you know, if I if 1:35:26.880 --> 1:35:31.840 I can help nurture the next generation and champion their 1:35:31.880 --> 1:35:34.760 cause then that I would be happy. But there's no 1:35:34.880 --> 1:35:38.479 intermounting flame or destination something that you would like to 1:35:38.520 --> 1:35:45.280 achieve that you know, stratospheric. I still think this is 1:35:46.880 --> 1:35:49.599 have end endless conversations with people like saying low about 1:35:49.640 --> 1:35:54.080 this of you know, where it's all going. I think 1:35:55.080 --> 1:35:59.080 I worry about music discovery and curation, you know, and 1:35:59.120 --> 1:36:01.519 that's completely broke it. Yeah, I mean there could be 1:36:01.520 --> 1:36:03.720 great stuff that doesn't rise to the time I think. 1:36:03.720 --> 1:36:06.120 I think on a very basic level, on a really 1:36:06.160 --> 1:36:09.599 really basic level. You know, the DJs I talk about, 1:36:09.680 --> 1:36:13.639 especially the underground ones, are still in a sense, um, 1:36:13.680 --> 1:36:18.640 the greatest curators in the electronic world anyway. Um. And 1:36:18.680 --> 1:36:20.920 I was just thinking on the way up here actually 1:36:21.000 --> 1:36:25.720 that um quite. I don't know. Maybe maybe a few, 1:36:25.760 --> 1:36:28.920 you know, maybe if you have the DJ to spend 1:36:28.960 --> 1:36:31.320 less time taking photos of themselves on beaches and actually 1:36:31.360 --> 1:36:34.320 tell us what music they're playing, that's an interesting way 1:36:34.360 --> 1:36:36.880 to put it. I don't know. I just think the 1:36:36.920 --> 1:36:39.360 future curation is it's still up. It's it's still up. 1:36:39.360 --> 1:36:41.600 For the obvious thing that people talk about playlists, I 1:36:41.640 --> 1:36:45.599 never believe I'm trying playlists and streaming services but as 1:36:45.640 --> 1:36:48.080 I say, yes, if you want to listen to the 1:36:48.160 --> 1:36:51.080 pop hip hop, you know, pop songs already on a 1:36:51.080 --> 1:36:54.639 grandde you can find that very easily. Other genres of music. 1:36:55.000 --> 1:36:56.439 I mean, you know, if you go through the genre 1:36:56.479 --> 1:36:58.960 playlists on Spotify, which is the big hood, you know, 1:36:59.000 --> 1:37:01.240 you can't listen to that music, never mind that much 1:37:01.320 --> 1:37:04.760 bad music. But somethin's personality lists. So I think, you know, 1:37:05.000 --> 1:37:07.120 as much as that sounds old school coming from someone 1:37:07.160 --> 1:37:13.240 like me, I just think, you know, it's it's ultimately 1:37:13.240 --> 1:37:16.120 will come down to personalities. You know, Virgil Aublaw does 1:37:16.120 --> 1:37:21.200 a pretty good job turning people onto fashion, and there's 1:37:21.200 --> 1:37:26.160 been certain people, you know, certain musician, you know, certain 1:37:26.240 --> 1:37:28.120 hip hop people back in the day that have turned 1:37:28.120 --> 1:37:30.439 people onto I believe, I think, I think, but I 1:37:30.439 --> 1:37:32.719 believe the culture is totally changed. The culture is purely 1:37:32.720 --> 1:37:35.640 about money, and there's really no money in curation, at 1:37:35.680 --> 1:37:38.200 least as we can see the short way done. There 1:37:38.240 --> 1:37:39.920 never was that at the beginning for the you know, 1:37:40.280 --> 1:37:42.559 not for me, not for John Peele, not but John 1:37:42.680 --> 1:37:45.240 Peel he got they say, and yet she got the 1:37:45.320 --> 1:37:48.920 narcis whatever. He got the great adulation, so without the money. 1:37:49.080 --> 1:37:52.719 But in today's society, where it's bottom line money, everybody 1:37:52.800 --> 1:37:55.080 is driving in another direction, even though it's the artist 1:37:55.120 --> 1:37:59.080 who's honest who ultimately has the most impact. So it 1:37:59.240 --> 1:38:01.559 either takes some one where money is not the number 1:38:01.560 --> 1:38:04.880 one thing, where just as a dream to to fix this. 1:38:04.960 --> 1:38:07.240 And I think we're, you know, across the world, certainly 1:38:07.280 --> 1:38:11.040 in America, we're moving towards that era, income, inequality, etcetera. 1:38:11.680 --> 1:38:14.760 And I think, I mean you you spent a lot 1:38:14.800 --> 1:38:17.920 of your blokes that I've read, you know, and you 1:38:17.960 --> 1:38:21.200 know loyally, I mean all the star I mean all 1:38:21.240 --> 1:38:23.560 the style of Apple music was based on the same frustration, 1:38:23.680 --> 1:38:26.320 right from Jimmy and um from Trent to try to 1:38:26.439 --> 1:38:30.120 actually get skeet curation salted. That was kind of right, 1:38:30.160 --> 1:38:32.280 But I think, you know, I don't want to make 1:38:32.280 --> 1:38:35.000 it about Jimmy specifically. I just didn't think they had 1:38:35.000 --> 1:38:37.200 it right. I didn't think, you know, there was a 1:38:37.240 --> 1:38:39.559 playlist company for you least to hype me all the time. 1:38:39.880 --> 1:38:42.479 We would know as active listeners, we like to pick 1:38:42.520 --> 1:38:46.120 the tracks we're listening to, but we certainly know the past, 1:38:46.400 --> 1:38:48.799 We know that people we know, with the great unknown, 1:38:49.240 --> 1:38:52.160 we have no way to go through and certainly listening 1:38:52.280 --> 1:38:54.880 to radio. None of the radio DJ it's like Apple 1:38:54.920 --> 1:38:57.679 Beach Radio. They announced that I haven't heard a person 1:38:57.720 --> 1:39:01.080 talking about Beach radio Beach one radio and years. Okay, 1:39:01.240 --> 1:39:03.800 that's just not how people listen. But I like, I 1:39:03.840 --> 1:39:05.720 have a guy in Nashville happens to work for w 1:39:05.920 --> 1:39:08.519 m A, and he sends me what to listen to, 1:39:09.160 --> 1:39:11.639 and I always listens to everything and he's always right 1:39:11.680 --> 1:39:16.600 like like it, But I like someone who could do it. 1:39:16.640 --> 1:39:18.519 In general, I think, you know, one of the problems 1:39:18.640 --> 1:39:21.400 is we give everybody a break where in reality is 1:39:21.439 --> 1:39:24.040 we discussed most of the stuff is ship. Just tell 1:39:24.120 --> 1:39:26.840 me what's great and I and I have an unlimited 1:39:26.880 --> 1:39:28.840 don't give me a hundred tracks to listen to, give 1:39:28.880 --> 1:39:36.519 me three. Okay, in any event, that's a different discussion. Beat. 1:39:37.200 --> 1:39:40.360 Thanks for the illumination. Thank you great, great to have you. 1:39:40.479 --> 1:39:42.559 Until next time, It's Bob left Sense