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Speaker 1: Welcome to had to Money. I'm Joel and I am

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Speaker 1: Mat and today we're talking food stamps to financial freedom

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Speaker 1: with Yanelli Espinal. That's right.

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Speaker 2: Our guest today has journeyed from food stamps to financial freedom,

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Speaker 2: and we're going to hear all about how she was

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Speaker 2: able to accomplish that. We are joined today by Yanelli,

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Speaker 2: who is also known as Misbe Helpful. She is the

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Speaker 2: first generation daughter of immigrants. She was born in Brooklyn,

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Speaker 2: and it didn't take her long to rack up twenty

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Speaker 2: thousand dollars in credit card debt before she realized that

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Speaker 2: this was not the life that she wanted to lead.

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Speaker 2: She started her career as a teacher and then parlayed

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Speaker 2: that into serving as the director of educational outreach at

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Speaker 2: next Gen Personal Finance. And now she's recently published her

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Speaker 2: first book, Mind Your Money, and she's currently actually on

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Speaker 2: a political roller coaster right across the country where she's

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Speaker 2: convincing lawmakers to make personal finance a high school graduation requirement.

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Speaker 2: We are excited to talk about all of that and

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Speaker 2: more today. Janellie, thank you for joining us on the podcast.

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Speaker 3: Oh, thank you so much for having me. What's up guy,

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Speaker 3: I'm still excited for this conversation. I really am.

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Speaker 1: We're stoked too. We're stoked. We we We saw you

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Speaker 1: speak in person last year at fin Con, which is

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Speaker 1: the nerdy conference that money. Yeah, ridiculous people who are

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Speaker 1: interested in money to a ridiculous for money and media

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Speaker 1: meets right, and Youanelli rocked it. She was I think

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Speaker 1: probably the best speaker of the evening for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Really.

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Speaker 1: Then when when you have the book come out, We're like, okay,

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Speaker 1: well it's time to get Youanelly on the show for Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's been it's been too How have we not done this?

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Speaker 1: You know?

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Speaker 3: I love that.

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Speaker 1: But the first first question we ask everyone who comes

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Speaker 1: on the show, you, Nelly, is what do you like

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Speaker 1: to supplore John Matt and I. We drink a lot

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Speaker 1: of craft Yeah, not a.

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Speaker 2: Lot, just the right amount. Yeah, not too much. Absolutely,

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Speaker 2: we drink expensive beers. It's something you like to spend

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Speaker 2: more than the average person on. Uh, it's something that

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Speaker 2: we we like to prioritize in the here and now,

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Speaker 2: even while we're being trying to be smart wise with

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Speaker 2: our money, save and invest for the future. But what

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Speaker 2: is that for you?

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Speaker 3: Right? For me? I would say it's definitely getting deep tissue,

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Speaker 3: full body massages. I am like, I don't know, it's

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Speaker 3: so weird because like I'm not like you know, and

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Speaker 3: I go ma asaka or anything, like I'm not going

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Speaker 3: and having like a personalized like masseuse in my home

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Speaker 3: all day every day. But I work a lot on

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Speaker 3: my computer a lot, I exercise a lot, and I

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Speaker 3: feel like because I'm so passionate, so animated, and like

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Speaker 3: I use my hands to talk and I hold tension

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Speaker 3: like in my body, in my face and my neck,

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Speaker 3: my arm. So after like a really intense week, I

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Speaker 3: just feel the pressure, like the tension like in my body,

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Speaker 3: and there's nothing like a full body deep tissue massage,

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Speaker 3: like really getting the knots out of my back, super relaxed,

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Speaker 3: seeing just letting go of everything. It's almost meditative too,

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Speaker 3: because my mind's like not really thinking about anything and

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Speaker 3: just enjoying, you know, this moment of relaxation. And so

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Speaker 3: for an hour every month at least I try and go,

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Speaker 3: if not more than once a month, depending on how

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Speaker 3: hectic the month is. But I'll sometimes spend you know,

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Speaker 3: upwards of two hundred fifty dollars if it's like at

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Speaker 3: a fancy resort or spo or something. And if I'm

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Speaker 3: traveling to really you know, get a nice, high quality

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Speaker 3: deep tissue massage.

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Speaker 1: Well that is yeah, that sounds awesome. I'm in for that.

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Speaker 1: And so you said, like, yeah, once a month or so,

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Speaker 1: which is not cheap. I will say too that that

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Speaker 1: is the only time I'm able to shut my mind off,

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Speaker 1: is like a massage, and I don't do it enough.

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Speaker 1: And so see when I do it, I shut my mind,

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Speaker 1: I fall asleep.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it is so that do a lot of people

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Speaker 3: do fall asleep? Oh yeah, I just I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I enjoy it. I'm I'm rested, but I'm definitely.

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Speaker 1: A week all the way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, you get it more off like me.

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Speaker 2: For me, it's like once every like two or three

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Speaker 2: years tops.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 1: No, something I'm trying to prioritize to you. I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Joel's into the massage, just keeping back into it.

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Speaker 2: But well, okay, thank you for sharing that, you Nelly.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, yeah, two fifty I mean that's

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Speaker 2: that's a lot, so a lot of money.

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Speaker 3: That's a lot like and that's really only when I'm

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Speaker 3: like at a fancy resort or like, you know, if

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Speaker 3: I'm if I'm out traveling or something, I met a

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Speaker 3: hotel that pretty much that is like the only place

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Speaker 3: you get a massage is gonna be that price. But

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Speaker 3: for the most part, when I go to like my

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Speaker 3: local massage place, it'll be like one hundred and twenty bucks.

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Speaker 1: Okay did they did? They give you the car, but

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Speaker 1: you get like ten of them, and they like.

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Speaker 3: I see the number of free massages I've got, and

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Speaker 3: I kind of feel bad.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, again, I'm talking about I love it your

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Speaker 1: frequent fly You're like, you want to be frugal while you're.

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Speaker 3: Spending your money exactly, That's right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just because it's a splurge doesn't mean you shouldn't

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Speaker 2: be kind of smart about it.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: It's like, hey, let's still find a way to say

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Speaker 2: somebody here, but you know, let's let's kind of talk

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Speaker 2: about your your money history, and I just kind of

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Speaker 2: like your personal history a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 2: You start your book talking about and interaction maybe an

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Speaker 2: altercation that you had with your sister.

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Speaker 1: You were along with her, but what.

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Speaker 2: Happened and what did you learn about money from sort

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Speaker 2: of getting this this head smack.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So I definitely got smacked with my sister. I

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Speaker 3: describe it in the book as like she knocked on

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Speaker 3: the top of my head, like she would knock on

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Speaker 3: the door, and if my sister often did that. So

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Speaker 3: I kind of grew up in an environment where it's

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Speaker 3: you know, tough love like and not that it was

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Speaker 3: like extremely abusive or physically violent, but oftentimes get smacked

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Speaker 3: around or like you know, knuckles on the head. And

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Speaker 3: so in this case, I was in the backyard. I

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Speaker 3: was just sweeping through my chores, and my sister yelled

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Speaker 3: out to me in the backyard and asked me where

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Speaker 3: my mom had went. And I, you know, oftentimes mom

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Speaker 3: would go in and out of the house. My mom

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Speaker 3: was always you know, at appointments at church or you know,

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Speaker 3: parent teacher conferences or whatever kind of related to kids

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Speaker 3: or her own hobbies. But I honestly couldn't remember like

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Speaker 3: where Mom went. And so I was thinking, like, did

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Speaker 3: she go to the doctor, did she go to the

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Speaker 3: post office? Like I don't remember, And then and then

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Speaker 3: it hit me that she told me she was going

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Speaker 3: to an appointment at the welfare office, which she called

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Speaker 3: the fetchal fey and I in my book, I had

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Speaker 3: specifically mentioned that term because I didn't know what it was.

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Speaker 3: But later on, as an adult, I saw on paper

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Speaker 3: that she had a face to face appointment in order

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Speaker 3: to renew her food stamps, and it just I put

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Speaker 3: two and two together, and I was like, Oh, she

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Speaker 3: had been trying to pronounce face to face, but she's

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Speaker 3: she's saying it with her thick Dominican accent fitch a fee.

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Speaker 3: But I'm put tunes together that she was going to

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Speaker 3: an appointment at the welfare office. So I yelled that

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Speaker 3: out at the top of my lungs in the backyard,

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Speaker 3: and my sister was so upset at me that I

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Speaker 3: would yell and tell everyone on our block the you know,

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Speaker 3: our personal business and to you know, put mom's business

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Speaker 3: on blasts like that, and so she was really mad

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Speaker 3: at me, and I, while I didn't understand exactly why,

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Speaker 3: you know, she was so upset, I knew that it

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Speaker 3: had something to do with money. And the message, the

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Speaker 3: clear message that I got from my sister, you know,

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Speaker 3: during that incident, was that like, we don't talk about money,

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Speaker 3: We don't tell people what we have, what we don't have.

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Speaker 3: We don't tell our personal business like that, and talking

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Speaker 3: about money is more taboo and it's a private thing.

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Speaker 3: So you know, from a very young age. I think

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Speaker 3: I was probably eight or nine years old when that

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Speaker 3: happened and never remember kind of being shushed in silenced

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Speaker 3: around money.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like that is maybe not exactly the

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Speaker 1: way it played out for you. But that's that's kind

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Speaker 1: of a lesson that a lot of us learn in childhood, right,

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Speaker 1: is that money is the taboos not to be talked about.

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Speaker 1: It's like I was telling math the other day my

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Speaker 1: oldest daughter, she said, Dad, how much money do we have?

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Speaker 1: Like for real overall? And you want to entertain those

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Speaker 1: questions and have a discussion about you don't want But

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Speaker 1: a lot of parents want to shut that down yet, right,

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Speaker 1: and so we have what's your take on I guess

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Speaker 1: having money conversations, especially with kids. I don't think you

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Speaker 1: have any of your own yet. But but why is

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Speaker 1: it so important to open up the conversation around money

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Speaker 1: and inside of a home?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? So actually in that same section of the book,

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Speaker 3: I talk about the reason why it's so important to

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Speaker 3: talk about this at an early age. There was actually

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Speaker 3: a study conducted with college students, and it showed that

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Speaker 3: parents who avoided talking about money predicted the worst type

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Speaker 3: of problematic credit card usage among those college students. So

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Speaker 3: they really they looked at the experiment and they broke

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Speaker 3: down the students into groups of the parents who talked

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Speaker 3: about money in a positive way, the parents who talked

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Speaker 3: about money in a negative way, and the parents who

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Speaker 3: avoided money talk like just never talked about money at all.

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Speaker 3: And you would think that the parents who talked about

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Speaker 3: money negatively would be the ones to pass down problematic,

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Speaker 3: you know, money behaviors to their children, but that was

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Speaker 3: not the case. They were not nearly as bad as

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Speaker 3: the problematic behaviors demonstrated by the students whose parents never

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Speaker 3: talked about money at all. So for me, like, and

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Speaker 3: you're right, I don't have children on my own, but

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Speaker 3: I'm the world's best auntie. You have ten nieces, and

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Speaker 3: you know I've helped them open RAWI race because Sodio

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Speaker 3: raw a race. I've found their five twenty nine plans

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Speaker 3: for their birthdays every year. I mean, I'm very involved

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Speaker 3: in sharing with them, opening and talking with them about

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Speaker 3: what I'm doing, why I'm doing it. And I think

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Speaker 3: that As early as kids start to ask you for

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Speaker 3: money or talk about money to you, that's the perfect

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Speaker 3: opportunity at that age to start talking to them about

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Speaker 3: the value of money, how hard it is to earn money,

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Speaker 3: and what different things you can do with money, because most,

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Speaker 3: you know, kids think, oh, you have money, you can

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Speaker 3: spend it. Then I'll realize, you know, you can spend,

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Speaker 3: you can save, you can gift, you can invest. There's

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Speaker 3: lots of different things that you can do with money.

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Speaker 3: And those lessons can be imparted on kids as young

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Speaker 3: as three, four or five years old.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And if you don't talk about it, you carries

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Speaker 2: that stigma with you into your own adulthood. But aside

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Speaker 2: from children, I mean, I think there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: folks out there and they are not talking about money.

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Speaker 2: How would you recommend for folks just to make this

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Speaker 2: a part of not only their life and something that

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Speaker 2: they're interested in, but to kind of get the ball

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Speaker 2: rolling and talking about it with their friends.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I think with friends and family, depending on the

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Speaker 3: relationship that you have, the specific relationship that you have.

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Speaker 3: Every relationship is different, whether it's a friendship or you know,

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Speaker 3: a courtship of the romantic relationship or you know, a

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Speaker 3: mother daughter relationship. Every relationship is very is distinct an individuals.

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Speaker 3: So I would say, think about the relationship that you're

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Speaker 3: involved in and kind of match that vibe in that aura,

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Speaker 3: because it's really weird if you have a relationship that

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Speaker 3: you know hasn't ever really trespassed those you know, thresholds

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Speaker 3: of talking about things that are a little personal or

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Speaker 3: considered to be a little taboo, then all of a

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Speaker 3: sudden you just jump in one day at lunch like,

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Speaker 3: all right, so let's let's have about money. How much

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Speaker 3: do you have your four one K? What are your

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Speaker 3: goals for retirement? That it just seems so bizarre and

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Speaker 3: out of place. It's not going to be well received.

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Speaker 3: So I always tell people lead with a story and

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Speaker 3: lead from the heart. So a heartfelt story, I think

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Speaker 3: is the key to transitioning into any conversation point around money.

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Speaker 3: That again, regardless of the nature of your relationship, a

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Speaker 3: story can help with that. So in my case, talking

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Speaker 3: about my talking to my parents about retirement was was

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Speaker 3: tricky because they both, you know, were not prepared for retirement.

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Speaker 3: They still aren't even though they're in retirement, and their

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Speaker 3: children Luckily, they have nine children, so our big family

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Speaker 3: has been able to pull together money to help them out.

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Speaker 3: But having this conversation initially with them a few years

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Speaker 3: before my dad retired was really tough because they're going

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Speaker 3: to be defensive. They're going to feel hurt that we're

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Speaker 3: talking about something that they clearly are underprepared for, and

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Speaker 3: you know, we don't want them to feel like we're

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Speaker 3: blaming them, or we're judging them, or that you know,

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Speaker 3: this is their fault, or that we're ashamed or disappointed.

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Speaker 3: So what we did was I personally just told my siblings,

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Speaker 3: let's just tell them a story about a friend who

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Speaker 3: has gone through a similar experience where their parents. And

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Speaker 3: fortunately for me, I had a friend who was literally

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Speaker 3: dealing with a situation with make up a false story.

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Speaker 1: But let me tell you this.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't a folk that I promised. It was a

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Speaker 3: real friend. And that's why listening to podcasts like this

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Speaker 3: like this is so helpful, because you're constantly listening to

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Speaker 3: people's stories and listening to experiences from people that they're

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Speaker 3: sharing on podcasts like this, So you feel free to

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Speaker 3: use me. But I tell people all the time, just

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Speaker 3: say a story listen. I was listening to a podcast.

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Speaker 3: I heard this girl and Alie. She was talking about

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Speaker 3: her family and how her parents were not prepared for

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Speaker 3: retirement but they never really talked about it, and so

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Speaker 3: when it was time for her parents to retire, the

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Speaker 3: parents were assuming that the children were going to be

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Speaker 3: funding their retirement every month and paying for everything, but

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Speaker 3: the children didn't realize that was the expectation, so they

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Speaker 3: weren't prepared financially to do that, and so there was

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Speaker 3: this big clash and people weren't really on the same

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Speaker 3: page in their family, and as you could imagine, that

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Speaker 3: would lead to fighting, and that could lead to a

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Speaker 3: lot of miscommunication and all kinds of things. So instead,

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Speaker 3: it would have been smarter for them to talk about

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Speaker 3: it way beforehand. So I'm thinking about how that might

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Speaker 3: apply to our relationship, our family, our friendship, and how

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Speaker 3: great it would be for to start talking about these

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Speaker 3: things now. Maybe look up a couple of questions that

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Speaker 3: we could start with, and that way we prevent ourselves

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Speaker 3: from repeating the types of mistakes that you know, people

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Speaker 3: like in Nelly have made because they just didn't talk

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Speaker 3: about it before. With enough time, that's so.

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Speaker 1: Much less threatening, right, that's such a great way to

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Speaker 1: begin it as opposed to like where you at, like

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Speaker 1: what's going on with your money? And it really it

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Speaker 1: really opens up I think the so it gives somebody

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Speaker 1: the ability of the room to have the conversation as

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Speaker 1: opposed to feeling like they have to defend their position

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Speaker 1: or give a full throated answer to exactly where they

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Speaker 1: stand with their personal finances.

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Speaker 2: Because they're nine kids, are staging an intervention, right exactly.

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Speaker 3: We definitely did do that. We definitely did. But the

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Speaker 3: thing is too with that, like everybody's going to agree,

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Speaker 3: everyone's going to agree that, yes, in that story, I

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Speaker 3: should have started sooner. The family should have talked about

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Speaker 3: this sooner. The expectations should have been made clear sooner.

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Speaker 3: So it's really difficult for somebody to hear that and

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Speaker 3: say no, no, no, I don't want to talk to

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Speaker 3: you about my money. Like it's very it's so visceral,

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Speaker 3: it's so real that it's true. Most people don't when

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Speaker 3: you come up with a story, when you start off

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Speaker 3: the bat with a story like that, you automatically all

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Speaker 3: start off on the same page of yeah, we definitely

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Speaker 3: want to prevent you know, we don't want to repeat that.

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Speaker 3: We don't want to do that. So let's be smarter.

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Speaker 3: Let's start talking more, you know, ahead of time. And

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Speaker 3: that's just an easy way to all get on the

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Speaker 3: same page.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So, speaking of stories, let's go back to your

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Speaker 1: story a little bit. You are no dummy. You went

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Speaker 1: to again, one of the finest institutions in higher education.

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Speaker 1: You went to Brown University.

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Speaker 3: I did.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're smarty pants. And for folks out there

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Speaker 1: who might wonder how someone so smart could get into

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Speaker 1: financial trouble, tell us about that. There's a Sometimes people

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Speaker 1: think IQ he equals good money habits, but no, there's

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Speaker 1: a massive disconnect there, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there definitely is a disconnect, because I mean, I

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Speaker 3: remember just really loving learning. I got so lucky in

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Speaker 3: elementary school and I had a gro group of teachers

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Speaker 3: who just made me love reading. They made me love

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Speaker 3: learning through reading. And once I got past that point of,

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Speaker 3: you know, feeling like reading was a chore and not

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Speaker 3: wanting to read, like I couldn't stop, I would be

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Speaker 3: hiding under the covers with like reading my Little Babysitters

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Speaker 3: Club books, and my mom would catch me and be like,

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Speaker 3: you have to go to see give me the book. Like,

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Speaker 3: So for me, loving learning started really really early. But

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Speaker 3: one of the things I noticed is that that was

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Speaker 3: I was only able to demonstrate that passion for learning

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Speaker 3: in the academic courses that I had, I mean going

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Speaker 3: to school formerly. You know, you have these specific classes

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Speaker 3: on your roster and your schedule every year, and that's,

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Speaker 3: you know, that was my time to shine. That was

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Speaker 3: my opportunity to you know, show my passion for learning

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Speaker 3: and to perform right and excel academically. So because I

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Speaker 3: took classes in you know, science and social studies, English language, yards,

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Speaker 3: I took French, I took Spanish at tik Guard history.

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Speaker 3: It took so many classes, but I never ever once

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Speaker 3: got a class about money management. I never once got

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Speaker 3: a class about personal finance. And so I felt when

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Speaker 3: I got to college, I felt this pressure to fit

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Speaker 3: in with all of these wealthier students that were around

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Speaker 3: me that you know, I really clearly was in a

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Speaker 3: totally different lane from them. You know, my parents did

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Speaker 3: not have the money to support me, to give me

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Speaker 3: in a lot once every week, or to you know,

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Speaker 3: support me in any kind of way financially. So I

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Speaker 3: was working multiple jobs and you know, to pay for

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Speaker 3: my textbooks and my school supplies and buy my own laptop.

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Speaker 3: And I just couldn't come up with the money quickly enough,

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Speaker 3: no matter how many hours I worked, like working a

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Speaker 3: minimum wage job at a pizzaia on campus. It wasn't

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Speaker 3: you know, it was impossible for me to come up

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Speaker 3: with eighteen hundred dollars within a week or two of

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Speaker 3: the start of the semester. So I just went down

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Speaker 3: campus one day on my way to work, and you know,

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Speaker 3: saw somebody with a clipboard offering me to you know,

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Speaker 3: get a free T shirt if I signed up for

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Speaker 3: the credit card. And of course it was a student

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Speaker 3: credit card, so it was specific for students to help

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Speaker 3: you pay for your textbooks and your laptop. And it

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Speaker 3: was the perfect pitch because I literally was going through

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Speaker 3: trouble trying to figure out how it's going to come

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Speaker 3: up with money to pay for all these things. So

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Speaker 3: to me, it just was like, oh, at the clouds

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Speaker 3: were partying and there was this woman with this clipboard.

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Speaker 3: It was a magical clipboard, and all I had to

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Speaker 3: do was fill out this papers and boom, I was

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Speaker 3: going to be able to solve my problems. And so

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Speaker 3: I filled out the application, I got my free T shirt.

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Speaker 3: I went on my way, and two weeks later I

380
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Speaker 3: had a shiny plastic credit card in my campus mail

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Speaker 3: box with my name on it, and I immediately maxed

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Speaker 3: it out. I bought my laptop, I bought some textbooks,

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Speaker 3: and I felt so good, like I felt so proud

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Speaker 3: of myself doing that because I didn't have to bother anyone.

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Speaker 3: I didn't have to call my sisters and brothers and

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Speaker 3: ask them for money. I didn't have to bother mom

387
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Speaker 3: and dad knowing that they didn't have it and that

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Speaker 3: I was only going to be adding to their burden.

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Speaker 3: Because even if they said I don't have the money

390
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Speaker 3: right now, I knew that my dad wouldn't stop thinking

391
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Speaker 3: about it, and he'd probably have to work extra and

392
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Speaker 3: work harder and try to come up with money to

393
00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:33,800
Speaker 3: give me because he wouldn't stop thinking about the fact

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Speaker 3: that I needed money. So I didn't want to add

395
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Speaker 3: any stress to my parents already existing burden. So I,

396
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Speaker 3: you know, I got the credit card. I started using

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Speaker 3: it first for things that I needed, and pretty quickly

398
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Speaker 3: I realized just how easy it is for you to

399
00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:51,480
Speaker 3: swipe that credit card and just buy whatever you want.

400
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Speaker 3: So that's I's started to do it. I just went

401
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,040
Speaker 3: to the mall and Providence Place. Mall got all my

402
00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:58,560
Speaker 3: money forever twenty one h and m you know, I

403
00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,480
Speaker 3: would go and shop and buy clothes and shoes, and

404
00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:05,080
Speaker 3: also it's I would say to the impact of growing

405
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Speaker 3: up in poverty, Like every time I asked my mom

406
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Speaker 3: for things or my dad for things, they would always

407
00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:11,400
Speaker 3: tell me, no, no, Ironedo, you know, there's no money

408
00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:13,040
Speaker 3: for that. We don't have the money for you to

409
00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:15,480
Speaker 3: get Jordan's. We don't have the money for Nikes, or

410
00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:17,000
Speaker 3: for you know, a name brand book bag or a

411
00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:20,200
Speaker 3: name brand coat. So I was constantly being told no,

412
00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:23,160
Speaker 3: that I couldn't get these things. So in college, having

413
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:25,919
Speaker 3: a credit card and feeling more pressure than ever to

414
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,000
Speaker 3: look a certain way and you know, and wear certain brands,

415
00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:32,120
Speaker 3: there was nobody there to tell me no. So I

416
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:34,800
Speaker 3: racked up twenty thousand dollars of credit card debt by

417
00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:38,040
Speaker 3: the time I graduated. About a year after my college

418
00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:40,320
Speaker 3: graduation is when I finally sat down and add up

419
00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:42,399
Speaker 3: all of my credit card debt that I had and

420
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Speaker 3: one small student loan for a study of broad program

421
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Speaker 3: and it was just under twenty one thousand dollars. And

422
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Speaker 3: that's when I kind of realized that I had gotten

423
00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:51,399
Speaker 3: out of control. I took it too far, and I

424
00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:53,680
Speaker 3: had a real problem that I needed to figure out

425
00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:55,919
Speaker 3: some way, somehow to solve it.

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Speaker 2: I've heard you speak about this before too, and just

427
00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:01,280
Speaker 2: how when you receive that credit card, it felt like

428
00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:04,720
Speaker 2: you were an official adult, right, And it's just interesting

429
00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:08,280
Speaker 2: to kind of contrast that to the lack of formality

430
00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:11,840
Speaker 2: that comes with actual financial education and so. And granted

431
00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:14,360
Speaker 2: this is back before laws were changed in credit card

432
00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:17,600
Speaker 2: companies were actually allowed to be on campus, but it's

433
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,119
Speaker 2: interesting how there truly is. And this is maybe an

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Speaker 2: argument for some of this official sanctioned financial education that

435
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Speaker 2: you're pushing for in schools that we'll talk about a

436
00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:28,560
Speaker 2: little bit later on. But it's interesting how on one hand,

437
00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:33,159
Speaker 2: you had this this formality, this card sometimes and make

438
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:34,720
Speaker 2: them out of metal now to make it feel like

439
00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:35,320
Speaker 2: you're even more.

440
00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:37,120
Speaker 1: Important, this passport into adulthood.

441
00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:40,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, in contrast to the fact that there was no

442
00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:43,440
Speaker 2: there is nothing on the syllabus, There is no sort

443
00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:46,639
Speaker 2: of class that was outline when you're just thrown to

444
00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:49,320
Speaker 2: the wolves the financial education, but so, yeah, so you

445
00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:52,800
Speaker 2: had twenty thousand dollars a little over that actually, but

446
00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:54,680
Speaker 2: what was it? Because I think there's a lot of

447
00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,639
Speaker 2: folks out there who can continue down that path and

448
00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:01,120
Speaker 2: they're not going to really change their behavior until they

449
00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,080
Speaker 2: somehow see the light and soil they are able to

450
00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:07,400
Speaker 2: decide that, oh my gosh, like what am I doing.

451
00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:08,600
Speaker 1: With my life?

452
00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:11,640
Speaker 2: What caused that change in your life?

453
00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:12,800
Speaker 1: Was the epiphany? Yeah?

454
00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,040
Speaker 2: What was that point in time that caused you to

455
00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:17,520
Speaker 2: want to completely up and how things were going?

456
00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:18,040
Speaker 1: Yeah?

457
00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,080
Speaker 3: So, I mean it was the There was a book

458
00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:23,960
Speaker 3: that I read, which was Susie Ormand's Women and Money.

459
00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:28,359
Speaker 3: And before reading that book, I was sitting at my

460
00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,520
Speaker 3: desk running up the numbers, like putting everything into a spreadsheet,

461
00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,080
Speaker 3: adding everything up because I had gotten to the point

462
00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:36,560
Speaker 3: where I just I felt like an adult. I felt

463
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:38,520
Speaker 3: like I was winning at this hashtag adulting thing.

464
00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:38,760
Speaker 1: You know.

465
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:40,879
Speaker 3: I was doing everything to help my parents. Every now

466
00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:42,320
Speaker 3: and then I would send them money to help them

467
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:44,720
Speaker 3: pay a bill. You know. I had my own apartment

468
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:46,520
Speaker 3: or I lived with a roommate, so I shared an

469
00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:48,840
Speaker 3: apartment with a roommate. I had my full time job

470
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,720
Speaker 3: as a teacher, which my parents were so proud of

471
00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:54,639
Speaker 3: me for becoming a professional. In their minds, there was

472
00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:57,240
Speaker 3: really no difference between a doctor, a lawyer, and a

473
00:19:57,280 --> 00:19:59,880
Speaker 3: teacher growing up in their country, in their native country,

474
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,000
Speaker 3: dominicaner in public, when a person becomes, specially a woman,

475
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:07,399
Speaker 3: becomes a professional, working professional, that is the you know

476
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,159
Speaker 3: utmost level of respect for you in terms of a

477
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:12,879
Speaker 3: career path. It's becoming a professional. And so growing up,

478
00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,240
Speaker 3: I would always hear them say combierret te tem profession now,

479
00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:18,640
Speaker 3: you know, become a professional, makers proud So a teacher

480
00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:20,159
Speaker 3: to them was just as much as me saying I'm

481
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:22,360
Speaker 3: a doctor, I'm a lawyer didn't make a difference. And

482
00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,680
Speaker 3: I wish I had understood the difference between the salary

483
00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:28,159
Speaker 3: of a teacher and a lawyer and a doctor, because

484
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:29,960
Speaker 3: I may have, you know, thought a little bit more

485
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,159
Speaker 3: about what I you know, what my kind of career

486
00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:34,760
Speaker 3: field was right after college. But you know, the moment

487
00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:38,159
Speaker 3: came to me looking at my bills, and I just

488
00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,040
Speaker 3: started crying because I was like, Okay, after I give

489
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:42,359
Speaker 3: mommy some money that she told me she needs. Plus

490
00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:44,800
Speaker 3: I paid my rent, I paid off this minimums all

491
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,600
Speaker 3: my credit cards for this month. I paid my bills

492
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:49,600
Speaker 3: in my apartment, I bought a train pass, I bought

493
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:53,040
Speaker 3: some groceries, I paid my cell phone. Like I literally

494
00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:57,040
Speaker 3: have no money left and it just doesn't make sense, right,

495
00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:59,600
Speaker 3: like they say on TikTok the mathe math in and

496
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,439
Speaker 3: I got. I got so frustrated that I was like,

497
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,520
Speaker 3: how is it possible that I went and got my

498
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:06,679
Speaker 3: my bachelor's degree, my master's degree, man went to one

499
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,000
Speaker 3: of the most prestigious schools. I got all the opportunities

500
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,119
Speaker 3: that my parents never got, and I'm still in this

501
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,439
Speaker 3: paycheck to paycheck cycle just like my parents. Like it

502
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,840
Speaker 3: just didn't make sense. So I was just crying, and

503
00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:19,679
Speaker 3: so I started pulling up everything and just trying to

504
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:21,720
Speaker 3: do the basic math, like I'm running, putting everything into

505
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:23,679
Speaker 3: a spreadsheet, know how much to actually do? I? Oh,

506
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:25,800
Speaker 3: why is it that I can't afford to pay for things?

507
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,520
Speaker 3: And that's when I saw my PDF credit card statement,

508
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,679
Speaker 3: which I had been opening that PDF every month and

509
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,480
Speaker 3: literally never scrolling past the first page. I would just

510
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:38,880
Speaker 3: look at the balance, the minimum DO and the do date.

511
00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,800
Speaker 3: That's it. I didn't even look at anything past that.

512
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,640
Speaker 3: So I decided Okay, let me scroll past the first page,

513
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,480
Speaker 3: and you know, that was actually pretty enlightening. I saw

514
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:51,240
Speaker 3: a whole bunch of interest fees.

515
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:53,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was like, what is this?

516
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,199
Speaker 3: The total amount charged in interest for the year was

517
00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,160
Speaker 3: in a little box all the way at the bottom

518
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,320
Speaker 3: on the last page of my statement, and that was

519
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,679
Speaker 3: a shock to me. It was thousands of dollars. I

520
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:06,760
Speaker 3: was like, wait, what the heck is going on? How

521
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,159
Speaker 3: is it possible that when I added up all the

522
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 3: interest on my four different credit cards, it was thousands

523
00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:13,720
Speaker 3: of dollars that I had given. I'm thinking that could

524
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:15,240
Speaker 3: have been in my savings account. I could have been

525
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:16,959
Speaker 3: giving that to Mommy and Bobby. I could have been

526
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 3: using that to do all whole kinds of stuff. It

527
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:20,920
Speaker 3: could have been here in my bank account right now

528
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 3: to help me pay for stuff. So I just realized

529
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,440
Speaker 3: that interest fees were accruing very quickly, and I knew

530
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:31,119
Speaker 3: I didn't understand this thing called interest. So I actually,

531
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:32,840
Speaker 3: in that moment, can I'm not even gonna lie. I

532
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:34,560
Speaker 3: didn't know what to do. I was just so overwhelmed

533
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,960
Speaker 3: and frustrated. So I went to bed and like maybe

534
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:41,679
Speaker 3: a two days later after that, experience. I was in

535
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:43,920
Speaker 3: a pharmacy. I was buying stuff at the Dwayne Read

536
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:46,640
Speaker 3: and you know, stuff that I would always buy after work,

537
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,600
Speaker 3: like wasting my money. I was buying candles and lotion trinkets,

538
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 3: whatever little stuff I would I would pick up on

539
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:55,040
Speaker 3: my way home from work. And on the magazine rack

540
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:58,199
Speaker 3: there was a book called Women and Money, and I

541
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,639
Speaker 3: was like, you know, I'm a woman, not literally is

542
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 3: yesteras yesterday just crying about money? Maybe this is one

543
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:08,679
Speaker 3: of those moments where the clouds of parties. So I

544
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:10,399
Speaker 3: just picked up the book and I started reading the

545
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 3: first few pages while I was in line, and by

546
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:14,480
Speaker 3: the time I got to the front to pay, I

547
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:16,200
Speaker 3: just put the candles and lotions aside. I was like,

548
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,160
Speaker 3: I don't want that stuff. I want this book. And

549
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:21,240
Speaker 3: it was nine dollars and I tell people every chance

550
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 3: I get, I'm like, that was the best nine dollars

551
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 3: that I ever spent, because that book opened my eyes

552
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 3: to basics around money and just to change your relationship

553
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 3: with money and the way you think about money, the

554
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 3: way you treat money, physically lining up your bills and

555
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:36,639
Speaker 3: straightening them out in your wallet, making you know, taking

556
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:38,919
Speaker 3: pride and the money that you've earned, things that I

557
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,679
Speaker 3: never got, you know, thought it was never exposed to.

558
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 3: And so I followed the debt repayment plan in that

559
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:45,879
Speaker 3: book and was able to pay off the debt in

560
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:46,639
Speaker 3: eighteen months.

561
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, I love it. I love it. That's so cool. Okay,

562
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,120
Speaker 1: So yeah, we talked a little bit about the math.

563
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,880
Speaker 1: We also there's there's more to just getting your money

564
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 1: right than just math though. There's a lot of like

565
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 1: mindset work that needs to take place, and that doesn't

566
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 1: necessarily take place over night. We have some questions about

567
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:04,680
Speaker 1: that and more than we'll get to with you, Nelly

568
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 1: right after this.

569
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 2: All right, we hear back from the break talking with

570
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,399
Speaker 2: yan Nelly Espinal and you know, let's talk about swimming

571
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 2: against the current. Because one line that stuck out to

572
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:25,639
Speaker 2: me in your book was when you said that you

573
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 2: thought you wanted some Jordan's. You thought you wanted uggs

574
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 2: so that people would think that you had money. You

575
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 2: wanted people to perceive you a certain way. This is

576
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 2: less about putting together a debt plan, right like, this

577
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 2: is less about the math, and I would say this is.

578
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:41,920
Speaker 1: Tougher to change.

579
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 2: Can you speak to that for a second, for sure.

580
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:44,159
Speaker 1: You know.

581
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 3: Actually, so the book came out at the end of

582
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 3: May of twenty twenty three, and around that time I

583
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 3: was listening to a bunch of podcasts. I tuned into

584
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 3: your podcast that week actually, and the episode that you

585
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 3: all dropped it was creepy to me how similar that

586
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,160
Speaker 3: episode was to my second chapter of my book, where

587
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,200
Speaker 3: I talk about swimming as the current. I mean, I

588
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,400
Speaker 3: think it was called Overcoming your Idiot Brain. So whoever

589
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 3: was listening, if you haven't listened to the episode, go

590
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:07,879
Speaker 3: back to Mayo twenty twenty three and pull that up,

591
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,159
Speaker 3: because it was so great, Like the examples, even the

592
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:14,160
Speaker 3: language that you guys use was so similar, like fighting back,

593
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 3: like I talk about that in my book. I talk

594
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 3: about how every day you get up and you're like

595
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:19,919
Speaker 3: a soldier and you have to get ready for battle

596
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 3: because at the moment you wake up and take your

597
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 3: first breath, like you're going to start to see ads

598
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 3: on social ads on Spotify, you know, add on the bus.

599
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 3: When you walk out of your house, you turn on

600
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 3: the radio, another ad everybody wants your money, And it's

601
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 3: like this constant game of whack a mole with a

602
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 3: bunch of money hungry moles, and so I put that

603
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,199
Speaker 3: in my book because I truly feel like that is

604
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,880
Speaker 3: why your brain is your first priority when it comes

605
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:47,639
Speaker 3: to money, Before saving and budgeting and understanding your income

606
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 3: and your cash flow, before any of that stuff, the

607
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 3: brain is number one. And so I talk about swimming

608
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:55,639
Speaker 3: against the current in the book because I feel like

609
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 3: for a lot of people, once you learn the math stuff,

610
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,680
Speaker 3: the math is the easy part. Calculators online to automate

611
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:03,399
Speaker 3: that mass stuff for you. You don't have to be

612
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,399
Speaker 3: able to understand the compounding formula. You just pull up

613
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 3: a compound interest calculator and it does the math for you.

614
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 3: So the math is really easy, parper. The hard part

615
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,680
Speaker 3: is the social stuff, feeling like you're not cool enough

616
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:14,879
Speaker 3: if you don't have you know, the latest gadgets, if

617
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 3: you don't have you know, the nicest apartment, if you

618
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 3: don't have the latest sneakers or the latest perse or

619
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:21,879
Speaker 3: whatever it is that everybody around you is posting and

620
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 3: talking about. If you don't have it, you fall prey

621
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 3: to this invisible force around you that's making you feel

622
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 3: like you're never cool enough, You're not ever going to

623
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 3: be good enough, and in order for you to succeed

624
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:35,679
Speaker 3: financially and kind of fight back against a lot of

625
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,199
Speaker 3: that stuff, you really have to, you know, do your

626
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 3: own thing. You have to swim against the current, and

627
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 3: you have to kind of decide that it's even though

628
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,359
Speaker 3: it feels unnatural for so many of us to try

629
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 3: to go against a lot of that, you know, whatever's

630
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 3: common and popular. That's the only way that you're actually

631
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,159
Speaker 3: gonna be able to make decisions about what you really

632
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,439
Speaker 3: want your money to do for you and not what

633
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 3: you've been brainwashed to think that you should do with

634
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 3: your money. So, you know, for me, I think that's

635
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:05,919
Speaker 3: a huge part. And you know, for me, that's why

636
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 3: I dedicated the whole second chapter of the book it's

637
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 3: called get your Mind Right, because I really think before

638
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 3: you even get into the money stuff, you really got

639
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 3: to start understanding these biases that you fall prey to

640
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:16,479
Speaker 3: when you're making choices with your money, and what you

641
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 3: can do to fight back against those biases.

642
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:20,159
Speaker 1: And you say that community is a big part of

643
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,239
Speaker 1: that too, right, So, like who you surround yourself with,

644
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 1: because it feels like they're these like flaming eras aimed

645
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 1: at us all the time, trying to get us up

646
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 1: to part from our money, and if we don't put

647
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 1: on that kind of armor to protect ourselves, we're going

648
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 1: to fork it over. So how does community and who

649
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,919
Speaker 1: you like, your friends, your family, who you hang out with,

650
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: how does that impact your ability to be kind of

651
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 1: resilient to those to those calls, to those advertisers who

652
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 1: are trying to part you from that earn money.

653
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 3: No, I love this question because for me, I'm going

654
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 3: to tell you the truth. My family was not really

655
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 3: on board with you know, they saw what I was

656
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 3: doing and they said it was a little too drastic,

657
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 3: because it's true I was. I was super frugal. Like,

658
00:27:57,920 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 3: once I realized what was happening with my money, I

659
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,640
Speaker 3: was not playing games. I was like, I'm so serious.

660
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,159
Speaker 3: It's just like committing to getting an A plus in

661
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 3: my physics class. Like I was like, I'm not. Yeah,

662
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 3: I was on a mission exactly. So you know, if

663
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 3: we would go out, I would only order something like

664
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 3: a very small thing in my budget, and everybody would

665
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:15,919
Speaker 3: be trying to split the bill and I'd be like, no,

666
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,400
Speaker 3: no splitting bills over here. I'm getting my own separate check.

667
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:22,640
Speaker 3: I only spent right, I'm like, if I'm unless I'm mistaken,

668
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 3: this water where the lemon slice was free. So I

669
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 3: just was very, very frugal, and I think they started

670
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 3: to see that and they were maybe like a little

671
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 3: judgmental at first. But I knew right away that my

672
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 3: family because after I told them about like the books

673
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:37,439
Speaker 3: that I had been reading and the blogs that I

674
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 3: was reading and the podcast I was listening to, and

675
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 3: these ideas that I had been exposed to, they all

676
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 3: just thought like, it's a little too drastic and it's

677
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 3: a bit too much. And it got to the point

678
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 3: where honestly, some of my siblings were just telling me

679
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 3: to shut up. They were like, we don't care about

680
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 3: the new maximum on your roth that ray increasing by

681
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 3: five hundred dollars this year. We don't care about that stuff.

682
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,080
Speaker 3: That's your thing. And so then I was like, okay, fine,

683
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 3: So I decided I'm going to go online because obviously

684
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:04,719
Speaker 3: I'm not going to change my family. I'm not going

685
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 3: to cancel my family, Like I love these people, and

686
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 3: I just have to accept that they know that I

687
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 3: would not. I was like, come on, I love these people,

688
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 3: but if I can't convince them that this is the

689
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 3: most important thing for us, then I'm just going to

690
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 3: have to show them and not tell them. So what

691
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 3: I did was I kind of just did my own thing.

692
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 3: Instead of subtracting people out of my life, I didn't

693
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 3: do that. I just added added a bunch of people

694
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 3: into my mindset, to my life, to my news feed

695
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 3: on social media. I started following a bunch of people

696
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 3: and starting to follow hashtags and just start to look

697
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 3: at all the content and listen to more podcasts and

698
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 3: just really immerse myself into the space of personal finance,

699
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 3: financial independence and debt repayment and you know, all these

700
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,479
Speaker 3: deafree community, all this all this stuff online, which you know,

701
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 3: for me, helped me to feel like I had another family.

702
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 3: I had this other community outside of like the people

703
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 3: that I see every day and hugging kiss when i'm

704
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 3: you know, together with them. It doesn't have to be

705
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 3: the physical people in your life. It might not, and

706
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 3: that's okay. For me, it wasn't, but I still was

707
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 3: able to go online and feel like I knew these

708
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 3: people that you know, were kind of like, you know,

709
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 3: influences on me in terms of my mindset and helping

710
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 3: me with resources and things. But I never met really

711
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 3: any of them until honestly recently, which is wild for

712
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 3: me to say that I've now worked with so many

713
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 3: of those creators who were early influences on me. You know,

714
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 3: I met mister Monny Munstache. I met Pete he at

715
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 3: fin Con. You know, I've met so many incredible speakers.

716
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 3: I met Tiffany the Budget Neista at a conference for women,

717
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 3: and I'm just so many of these amazing early influences

718
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 3: in my life I've been able to meet and tell

719
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 3: them thank you so much, Like you are the reason

720
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 3: why I completely changed the trajectory of my life and

721
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 3: my future generations lives because I started to, you know,

722
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 3: get serious about my money. So you know, just really quickly,

723
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 3: if if that's not people that you love right now,

724
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 3: that you see every day that you hang out with,

725
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 3: your friends, your family, your spouse, your partner, that is okay,

726
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 3: show them. Don't feel like you have to tell them

727
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 3: because they might not be ready to hear it, but

728
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 3: when they see it, they can't deny it.

729
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 1: That's that's some good advice, right quick plug for the

730
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 1: Hanna Money Facebook group, because that's surely ten thousand plus

731
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 1: people who are helping each other out and really want

732
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 1: to get better with their money. And it's this hive mind,

733
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 1: but it's also this group where there's so much support

734
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 1: that goes alongside of it.

735
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 3: And I got a joint. I love that.

736
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's what we need, right, We need

737
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 1: the information combined with the the adda boys aut of

738
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: girls like you can do it, you got this. And

739
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 1: I think that that too pronged approach is just it's

740
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 1: crucial and it really helps a lot of people succeed.

741
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 1: That You need that motivation if there's nobody physically in

742
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 1: your life, you need that. That's the beauty of an

743
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 1: online community.

744
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 2: This is one of the few upsides to social as Yeah,

745
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 2: you kind of were talking about how you're you went

746
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 2: pretty hard in the frugal direction, Like what are some

747
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 2: of the more extreme things that you may have done

748
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 2: to save money to get ahead, because I think at

749
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 2: some point in the book you mentioned something about eyebrow threading.

750
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 3: I was just thinking about that.

751
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, talk some.

752
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 1: About that or tell me what that is somebody.

753
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 3: Two things that I did that were extreme. First was

754
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 3: like beauty maintenance routine and stuff with like you know,

755
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 3: being a girl. There's a lot of stuff and I

756
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 3: know that there are guys out there who also put

757
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 3: a lot of time and effort of money into grooming,

758
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 3: but it's just different with girls. Because of the pink tax,

759
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 3: we are targeted products and things that are so much

760
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 3: more expensive to stay beautiful and to look you know whatever.

761
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 3: And for me, a lot of that was, you know,

762
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 3: maintaining my parents, so getting haircuts, getting my nails done,

763
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 3: and doing my eyebrows, which for many years I was

764
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 3: I would go like every two weeks and spend eight

765
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 3: to twelve dollars to get my eyebrows waxed, you know,

766
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 3: and it hurts. I'm gonna live. You get used to

767
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 3: it after a while, but it's just part of the

768
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 3: name of the game. You want to be pretty on

769
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 3: your first date, you want to look nice, you got

770
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 3: you gotta put the money down to you know, keep

771
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 3: up with your beauty routine. And so when I got

772
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 3: really serious about my budget, I was like, Okay, this

773
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 3: is what I have, this is what I'm going to

774
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 3: spend money on. This is what I don't have, This

775
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 3: what I can't put money towards. And so I remember

776
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 3: one time I was with my family and my sisters

777
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 3: because I'm one of five sisters. There's nine of us total,

778
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 3: but four our brothers and the other four sisters, so

779
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 3: one of five sisters and my sisters were they were

780
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 3: just dogging me, like making fun of me, you know,

781
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 3: roasting me, which is their way of showing tough love.

782
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 3: I'll say that, but still it's still hurts sometimes. They

783
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 3: were just like dogging me, like, oh, you look like

784
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 3: free to CALLO because we got my eyebrows. My eyebrows were, yeah,

785
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 3: that's harsh.

786
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 2: Come on, come on, i had.

787
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 3: Not been done for a couple of months.

788
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie.

789
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 3: So I was like, well, you know, I was trying

790
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 3: to tweet them on my own, but I don't really

791
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 3: know how to do it. I want to mess them

792
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 3: up and whatever. They're like, just go spend the money,

793
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 3: and I'm like, well, I can't because I promised myself

794
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 3: I was not going to use my credit cards again

795
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 3: until I pay them off. And I don't have the

796
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 3: twelve dollars in my budget because every dollar had a

797
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 3: job and it was not my eyebrows this month. So

798
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 3: you know, I just kind of went home that night

799
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 3: and I'm thinking about that making fun of me, and

800
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 3: I'm like, all right, let me, let me see if

801
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 3: I can just figure out a way to do my

802
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 3: own eyebrows, it can't be that hard. So I went

803
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 3: on YouTube and I started looking up how to do

804
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 3: your own eyebrows, and a video came up about threading

805
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 3: your eyebrows, which I had done one time, or I

806
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 3: had had it done one time for my sweet sixteen party.

807
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 3: My sister took me to a place in Manhattan where

808
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 3: they thread in my eyebrows. It was like a very

809
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 3: traditional Indian eyebrow th writing place. So I always thought, like,

810
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 3: that's something that if you don't if that's not in

811
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 3: your culture, you don't know how to do it, you're

812
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:15,399
Speaker 3: gonna like rip your eyebrows off your face. So don't

813
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 3: even try to do that, you know. But there was

814
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 3: this tutorial on YouTube, and it was it made it

815
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 3: seem pretty simple. You didn't have to like use your

816
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 3: mouth with a thread, which is what offen the traditional

817
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 3: way to do it looks like, so you could just

818
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 3: like make one thread loop and cross it over like

819
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,320
Speaker 3: in the form of an X. And so I started

820
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:35,839
Speaker 3: practicing it, and so I was like, Okay, I think

821
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 3: I could. I think I learned how to like control

822
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 3: which hair's eye will pluck with the thread, and so

823
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 3: then I did my own eyebrows, and funnily enough, now

824
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,319
Speaker 3: I do my sister's eyebrows, even though they were making

825
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 3: fun of me, I do my mom's eyebrows. I do

826
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 3: my sister in law. A lot of my girlfriends be like,

827
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 3: can you do my eyebrows between visits, like I just

828
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 3: need to touch up, and my nieces will have me

829
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 3: do their eyebrows. So it's funny because I was just

830
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 3: I was really committed to my fluit with my budget,

831
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:02,319
Speaker 3: and so much so that I wasn't willing to put

832
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:04,359
Speaker 3: a twelve dollars I brought charge on my credit card

833
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 3: because I promised myself I wasn't going to use it.

834
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I love that. That's you mentioned like, that's

835
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 1: a resolve right to say no, to say no to things,

836
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 1: and to find a solution outside of it, to get

837
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 1: a little creative. I think, Matt, that reminds me of

838
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 1: when you did your wife's hair at some point, what

839
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:24,319
Speaker 1: was it called the uh oh b the layering. Matt

840
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 1: trained himself.

841
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,479
Speaker 2: He learned he watched a bunch of YouTube videos, Like Nelly,

842
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 2: I watched a few YouTube videos because it's like a

843
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 2: really expensive way to get your hair one hundreds of dollars. Well,

844
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:34,359
Speaker 2: speaking of, maybe I should start my own salong because

845
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 2: I've cut you're you know.

846
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,399
Speaker 1: I should partner together your own thing, right, this is a.

847
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 3: Business plan in the making.

848
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 1: Right here, exactly. I'll just come in and get some

849
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 1: work done, but I won't be a part of it,

850
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 1: but hang out. Yeah. No, But I love that. I

851
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 1: think that that that says so much, and it's it's

852
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 1: so important to be willing to say no to things,

853
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 1: even if it's in an ideal world. Hey, at some

854
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 1: point I'll get I'll get there and I'll be able

855
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 1: to go splurge on that, but not until I've actually

856
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: got the cash in hand to be able to do it.

857
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 3: That's right.

858
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: I've got another question for you, Nell, Matt and I

859
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 1: we've talked on the show before. There's a lot of

860
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 1: actually data about how second generation immigrants tend to succeed

861
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 1: more than first generation immigrants and more than people, more

862
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 1: than Americans who are fourth fifth generation. They tend to

863
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: realize the American dream more than any other cohort. Do

864
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 1: you have any insight as a second generation immigrant as

865
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 1: to what the secret sauce is there, like, what is

866
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 1: the Yeah, what's involved? And why is it that second

867
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 1: generation immigrants really live the American dream more than the

868
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 1: rest of us?

869
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I would say this. I would say

870
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 3: that this is anecdotal, obviously because I don't have any

871
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 3: studies to source, but I will say there is this

872
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 3: emotional connection, this psychological, deeply seated mentality of a combination

873
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 3: of the gratitude that you have for the efforts that

874
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 3: your parents have put into immigrate to a whole new country.

875
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:01,400
Speaker 3: They left their entire life behind, everyone they knew and loved.

876
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:03,439
Speaker 3: They left it in their native country to come here

877
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 3: with the sole purpose of giving you their child a

878
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 3: better opportunity than the one that they had. And they

879
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 3: worked unforgiving immigrant jobs and worked unforgiving hours. And when

880
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:19,800
Speaker 3: I say the word sacrifice is so underrated in immigrant community,

881
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 3: I mean truly, it is the ultimate sacrifice to leave

882
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,239
Speaker 3: your comfort, your loved ones, everything you know, your way

883
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 3: of life for your children to have better opportunities. It

884
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 3: makes me want to cry right now as I talk

885
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 3: about it, because I know that my mom and dad

886
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 3: made that ultimate sacrifice for me, for me and my siblings,

887
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 3: and so When I think about that, there's something psychological

888
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 3: happening there that is, it's so powerful that you feel

889
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 3: you have to you do, not have a choice but

890
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 3: to make their sacrifice worthwhile. And that means that you

891
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 3: have to succeed. You have to find a way to succeed,

892
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:56,840
Speaker 3: whether it's through the very traditional pathway of going to

893
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 3: college and getting you know, your job and having a

894
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,880
Speaker 3: successful career path the more traditional way, whether it's an

895
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 3: alternative to the for your college pathway and you know,

896
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 3: join the military or becoming an entrepreneur or you know,

897
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 3: whatever that pathway looks like. It doesn't have to be

898
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 3: that cookie cutter, perfect for your college degree type of pathway.

899
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 3: But whatever it is that you do, you're doing it

900
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 3: with a certain level of grit and resilience that is

901
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 3: near too impossible to plant into someone if they don't

902
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 3: naturally have it. And I think a lot of children

903
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:29,800
Speaker 3: of immigrants naturally have it because they've witnessed that ultimate

904
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 3: sacrifice that their parents have made and they're just trying

905
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 3: their hardest to, you know, give their parents that the

906
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 3: ability to say, to feel that sense of gratitude and

907
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:40,760
Speaker 3: pride for their children.

908
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 2: That's so true that makes sense. So you are a

909
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 2: second gen immigrant and you have that resolve. A lot

910
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 2: of folks they don't have that either gumption or that

911
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,439
Speaker 2: grit to figure things out on their own.

912
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:55,439
Speaker 1: We did a whole episode about grit, by the way,

913
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 1: how that was like the number one ingredient in getting

914
00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 1: better with money and how you kind of have to

915
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 1: like figure out how to get it.

916
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 2: You really could have like co hosted that episode, I'm sure,

917
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:06,320
Speaker 2: but a big part of getting ahead with your finances

918
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 2: is knowing the right stuff. In fact is there are

919
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 2: a lot of folks who don't have that drive to

920
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 2: figure it out, and sometimes it does need to be

921
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 2: presented in a more formal manner. And we're actually gonna

922
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,879
Speaker 2: talk more about financial literacy and some of the things

923
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 2: that you know, you Nelly is doing to make this

924
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,799
Speaker 2: more accessible across our country. We'll get to that right

925
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 2: after this.

926
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 1: All right, we're back. We're still talking how to get

927
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 1: to financial freedom with you Nelli Espanal. Her story just

928
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 1: incredible and so we're so glad to have her here

929
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 1: and you, Nelly, it's it's not just about like how

930
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 1: far she's come, it's about what she's doing to help others.

931
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:52,320
Speaker 1: Succeed as well, and you, Neale, I love your mission.

932
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,840
Speaker 1: I love what you do, what you're doing with so

933
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 1: many hours of your work weeks to make sure that

934
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 1: other kids, Like we're talking hundreds of thousands, if not

935
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 1: millions of kids around the country to succeed in the future,

936
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,280
Speaker 1: not just not just your ten you know, nieces and nephews,

937
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 1: Like we're talking your impact is being heard around around

938
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:13,840
Speaker 1: the nation. And so let's talk about your work with

939
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:16,760
Speaker 1: next gen personal finance and trying to bring financial literacy

940
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 1: to the masses, mainly mainly high schoolers. Like why is

941
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 1: that such a passion of yours?

942
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's such a passion of mine because,

943
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 3: as I mentioned a little earlier, I know that if

944
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 3: I had had a formal academic course on money management,

945
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 3: I would have, you know, I would have had a

946
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:35,359
Speaker 3: completely different mindset, and I think it would have really

947
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:38,240
Speaker 3: prevented me from making so many of the mindless, reckless

948
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 3: mistakes that I made with money in college. And I

949
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:44,400
Speaker 3: feel like everyone deserves a fair shot in order to

950
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 3: you know, really be able to thrive financially, or even

951
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 3: to just get the basics right. When I was in

952
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 3: my master's program for education. I remember learning about the

953
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 3: original intent behind creating a public school system in America,

954
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 3: and it was called the Great Equalizer. It was to

955
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:03,280
Speaker 3: give everyone, no matter what your zip calle, your family background,

956
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 3: your ethnic origin, no matter where you come from, that

957
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:09,319
Speaker 3: when you step into this public school building, you all

958
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 3: have an equal opportunity for success. You get an equal education,

959
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 3: you understand everything equally, so that when you exit you

960
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 3: know everyone that kind of you're on equal footing right

961
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:22,319
Speaker 3: to then move forward. Now, obviously that's like this idealistic

962
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 3: utopia world where yes, we're all equal when we leave school.

963
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 3: What happens at home is a greater impact on your

964
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 3: life than what's happening at school. But at the very least,

965
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:35,359
Speaker 3: if you're intending to prepare students so that they can

966
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 3: get a job one day and have some type of

967
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:40,439
Speaker 3: income so they can have security for their family, then

968
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:43,319
Speaker 3: there should be a class teaching you what the best

969
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:46,320
Speaker 3: practices are around what to do when that money comes,

970
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:49,359
Speaker 3: when that first pay check hits. So it's so odd

971
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 3: to me after being a student for decades in our

972
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:54,840
Speaker 3: public school system, going off to a very prestigious college,

973
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:56,959
Speaker 3: getting a master's degree, coming back to New York City,

974
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,320
Speaker 3: becoming a teacher in that very public school system that

975
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 3: I attended as a child as a student, now being

976
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 3: on the other side in front of the classroom, seeing

977
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 3: that the curriculums still didn't include any financial literacy, it

978
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 3: just felt like, Okay, I could continue to impact my

979
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:13,320
Speaker 3: thirty to forty kids every year. I could even create

980
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:15,360
Speaker 3: content on YouTube and affect you know, a couple million

981
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:17,719
Speaker 3: people who subscribe to my channel if I grow really big,

982
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:22,799
Speaker 3: but my impact will still be limited versus if I

983
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 3: am able to change the laws and make sure that

984
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 3: every single teenager before they turn eighteen and graduate high

985
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 3: school is required to take a full semester, eighteen week

986
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 3: course diving into money management and personal finance, then no

987
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 3: matter what future generation, your children, your children's children, children's

988
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,319
Speaker 3: children's children are going to be able to get this

989
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 3: because of my efforts. And that's the kind of impact

990
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 3: I was looking to get done in my work, not

991
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,919
Speaker 3: just this surface level impact through being a social media

992
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 3: creator or being a teacher. Like I'm a wife, will

993
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 3: have always been the type of person who prioritizes being

994
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 3: of service to others, and I get that from my mom.

995
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 3: She's so giving and always trying to be of service,

996
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 3: but I wanted the service to really be the highest

997
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:01,280
Speaker 3: impact type of service possible.

998
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:03,840
Speaker 2: So what's interesting is like, there are even some like

999
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 2: pretty great folks in the personal finance space who actually

1000
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 2: question the necessity of some of these different classes. And

1001
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:12,320
Speaker 2: so I kind of get it, because you even just

1002
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 2: said yourself, what happens at home, it is even more

1003
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 2: formational in the minds and in the lives of children.

1004
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 2: But like, what would you say to someone out there

1005
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:24,880
Speaker 2: who is questioning the effectiveness of a single personal finance

1006
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:25,760
Speaker 2: class in high school?

1007
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 1: We've seen more and more of it, and it's really

1008
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 1: disappointing to see people in the personal finance space who

1009
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 1: know the value of the education say, oh, well, we

1010
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 1: don't need it in high school. We don't when it's

1011
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 1: a subject that touches every single one of our lives,

1012
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:38,759
Speaker 1: every day of our lives in perpetuity.

1013
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, essentially, I guess what I'm asking, what's your argument against, Well,

1014
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 2: they should just learn it on their own, whether it's

1015
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 2: by it from their parents, or maybe they should just

1016
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 2: learn it from a book or from a podcast.

1017
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 3: Right, Okay, Well, actually recently I was on TikTok and

1018
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 3: I saw a roomats at the video at the If

1019
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 3: you don't already know, I'm sure you know him. His

1020
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:58,320
Speaker 3: book's awesome. I would teach you to be rich. His

1021
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:00,799
Speaker 3: show on Netflix How to Get Rich amazing. Now I've

1022
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 3: reached out to him and I said, hey, I and

1023
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 3: this is like an Instagram DM. I said, hey, I've

1024
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 3: committed to changing your mind about financial education, and I'm

1025
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 3: so serious. I am going to show you the latest

1026
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 3: research and the movement for twenty first century relevant financial education.

1027
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 3: I love your work and I've always plugged you. You

1028
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:18,359
Speaker 3: can see that from how many times I've tagged you.

1029
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 3: But man, this is the number one hot take where

1030
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:22,799
Speaker 3: you are wrong and I want to help you get

1031
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 3: on the right side of the fight. He responded to

1032
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 3: me and said, I'm open to reading the research, and

1033
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 3: so I sent him the research. He said, thank you

1034
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 3: reading these. So he you know, it's funny because for

1035
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 3: me posted this video where he talked about you know

1036
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:36,800
Speaker 3: why he doesn't support financial education and it kind of

1037
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 3: went viral very quickly, obviously because he's so well known.

1038
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 3: But he said, you know who's going to teach it?

1039
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 3: If the banks are going to create the curriculum and

1040
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 3: we can't even agree on basic fundamental truths in this country,

1041
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 3: how are we going to agree on personal finance? And

1042
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 3: then he said, kids don't care about learning about money,

1043
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 3: So I want to address those points.

1044
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:54,400
Speaker 1: First time, I was wrong on all accounts.

1045
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:56,880
Speaker 3: I told him, I said, you're wrong. I'm gonna get you.

1046
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:58,880
Speaker 4: On the wrong every single reason that he gave. I

1047
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 4: was like, dude, you're wrong, Dude right and love for me.

1048
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 4: But I told them, I was like, I got to

1049
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 4: bring you over to our side. You got to be

1050
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 4: on the right side of the fight. So all right,

1051
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 4: let's address them each one. Who's going to teach it?

1052
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:10,360
Speaker 4: First of all, he said, overburdened high school teachers are

1053
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 4: going to teach it. I can tell you right now

1054
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 4: through my work at MGPF. It is a free, nonprofit organization,

1055
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 4: so free curriculum, free teacher training. There's over seventy thousand,

1056
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 4: close to eighty thousand teachers across the country who are

1057
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 4: accessing the free materials. So this is not curriculum that's

1058
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 4: created by a bank the way he mentions where it's

1059
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 4: like pushing the bank branding on a logo on materials.

1060
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 4: This is all free, not for profit It is all

1061
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 4: literally like twenty first century up to date online materials,

1062
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 4: and we have over eighty thousand teachers, close to eighty

1063
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 4: thousand teachers who've created an account so that they can

1064
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:41,799
Speaker 4: access the materials for free.

1065
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 3: What will they take away? What will students take away?

1066
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 3: There are national personal finance standards for financial literacy education

1067
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:50,880
Speaker 3: created by Jumpstart as well as the Council of Economic Education.

1068
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 3: States can either choose to adopt those standards and teach

1069
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:56,320
Speaker 3: those topics, or they could create their own state specific

1070
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:59,239
Speaker 3: standards for financial literacy education and use their own state

1071
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 3: specific standard. That's up to the state because in education

1072
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 3: it's very much local control in our country. This is

1073
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 3: not a federal issue that the president can just wave

1074
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 3: a magic want and say everyone is required to now

1075
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 3: learn personal finance in high school. It's a state by state,

1076
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 3: local issue, so every state has to dictate what it

1077
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:17,360
Speaker 3: looks like and how that happens. How are they going

1078
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 3: to get trained. We offer free teacher training at NGPF,

1079
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:22,880
Speaker 3: again not for profits, so it's not we're not pushing anything.

1080
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 3: There's absolutely no agenda. The co founders created an endowment fund.

1081
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 3: One of our co founders, Tymrans, that are created an

1082
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 3: endowment fund. After having a lot of success as an entrepreneur,

1083
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 3: he decided this is going to be the thing that

1084
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 3: he wants to champion. This is where he wants to

1085
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:37,240
Speaker 3: make change and leave a legacy, and so he created

1086
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:39,440
Speaker 3: an endowment fund with tens of millions of dollars so

1087
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:40,840
Speaker 3: that we would never run out of money and be

1088
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:43,280
Speaker 3: able to continue to provide teachers with free, high quality

1089
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:46,799
Speaker 3: training and free curriculum materials as well as advocacy resources.

1090
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:48,359
Speaker 3: And this is how I'm able to do my job,

1091
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:50,360
Speaker 3: and this is how so many teachers are able to

1092
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:54,880
Speaker 3: teach with confidence topics like investing, topics like budgeting, like banking,

1093
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:57,440
Speaker 3: like you know, the things that are developing that they

1094
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:00,880
Speaker 3: never knew about, like buy now, pay later, or cryptocurrency.

1095
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:03,800
Speaker 3: We're yeh, at the front, forefront of the front lines,

1096
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:06,360
Speaker 3: like teaching these teachers the cutting edge information so that

1097
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:08,360
Speaker 3: they're ready to teach it and pass it on to

1098
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:11,320
Speaker 3: their students. So no banks and all that kind of stuff.

1099
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:14,319
Speaker 3: The thing he said about disagreeing on basic fundamental truths

1100
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 3: in this country is actually not a lie. That's true.

1101
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 3: There's a lot of divisiveness and depending on you know,

1102
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 3: money is political, and there are a lot of people

1103
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:22,840
Speaker 3: that disagree with, you know, issues in personal finance. The

1104
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:25,919
Speaker 3: reason why that doesn't really affect this, though, is because

1105
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 3: I have literally went. I've gone from Florida, where we

1106
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 3: passed SB ten fifty four in twenty twenty one. The

1107
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:35,840
Speaker 3: law was successfully passed in Florida, later passed in Georgia,

1108
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 3: then went up to Michigan, was passed in Michigan, and

1109
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 3: also passed in Connecticut.

1110
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:43,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, Connecticut recently, am Yeah, So.

1111
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 3: Since Florida, since my work in Florida, it's gone Iowa, Georgia, Michigan, Kansas,

1112
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 3: New Hampshire, West Virginia, Indiana, Minnesota, and the most recent

1113
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:53,719
Speaker 3: being in May of twenty twenty three, Connecticut, with Louisiana

1114
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:56,839
Speaker 3: following shortly after in I would say early June twenty

1115
00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:59,800
Speaker 3: twenty three. So what we're looking at is this momentum

1116
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:03,399
Speaker 3: wave of regardless if that state is considered a red

1117
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 3: state or a blue state, or who the sponsors who

1118
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:09,240
Speaker 3: championed it are, or if the governor is a Democratic

1119
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 3: governor or a Republican governor. When we look at Florida

1120
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 3: and Michigan, two states with governors that couldn't be more opposite.

1121
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:19,719
Speaker 3: Both of those states signed the exact same financial literacy legislation.

1122
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 3: So when you say, oh, we can't agree, we can

1123
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 3: agree that personal finance is a fundamental, uh you know,

1124
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:27,760
Speaker 3: skill set that every student needs and deserves.

1125
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:30,879
Speaker 1: And it's true that money has political elements, but it's

1126
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 1: also true that a ton of personal finance can and

1127
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:38,840
Speaker 1: should be and should remain a political And I'm unbiased agree.

1128
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:41,319
Speaker 1: And when it comes to the education that's taking place

1129
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 1: in high schools, we actually reminds me of one of

1130
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 1: our earliest interviews. We talked with this guy, Dan Lostalle.

1131
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:47,319
Speaker 1: He was a vice president of DAN.

1132
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:49,839
Speaker 3: I'm actually the president of the board for niche Nik.

1133
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 1: Dan is one of the favorite, our favorite guests we've

1134
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:54,879
Speaker 1: ever had because he took this outside of the box

1135
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:58,360
Speaker 1: approach to teaching kids and and and actually finding ways

1136
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 1: to attach work to income and then and they're putting

1137
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:03,680
Speaker 1: money in these kids hand so they could actually not

1138
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:05,919
Speaker 1: just learn the principles, but then put them into action

1139
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:08,399
Speaker 1: and so it's practical. I feel like people like you

1140
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 1: and Dan are on the front lines of this of

1141
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:12,680
Speaker 1: this fight, and we support you all the way. And

1142
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 1: anybody who says that personal finance education in school is

1143
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:17,319
Speaker 1: a waste of time.

1144
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 3: Doesn't know what they're talking Not only do not know

1145
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:20,600
Speaker 3: what they're talking about, but they haven't been inside of

1146
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 3: a school recently. I can tell you that because if

1147
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:26,239
Speaker 3: I go into these schools consistently and frequently for my work,

1148
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:28,799
Speaker 3: and the students light up. When I hear people say

1149
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:31,280
Speaker 3: kids don't care about learning personal finance until it's relevant

1150
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:33,120
Speaker 3: to them, I'm like, do you know what it's like

1151
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 3: to be sixteen years old and get your driver's license

1152
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 3: and actually be looking for a car loan and comparing

1153
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:40,919
Speaker 3: car loan car insurance rates? Do you know what it's

1154
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 3: like to be seventeen and want to open your first

1155
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:44,439
Speaker 3: custodio rop that rate because you just got your first

1156
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:46,319
Speaker 3: job and you're excited and you want to learn about

1157
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:48,759
Speaker 3: this and not have any adult in your life or

1158
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:50,680
Speaker 3: class in school teaching you about these things.

1159
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:53,080
Speaker 1: It's practical in life changing, and it's.

1160
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:55,800
Speaker 3: Applicable immediately when you are a junior or senior in

1161
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:57,799
Speaker 3: high school. So if you're about to fill out your

1162
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 3: fav SEL form and you're learning it and then you

1163
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:03,000
Speaker 3: go do it right away, how can something be more

1164
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 3: applicable and more immediately beneficial than that. So I just

1165
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:08,360
Speaker 3: think when people talk about these things, it's usually the

1166
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:11,759
Speaker 3: people who are the furthest away from the actual classrooms,

1167
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:13,840
Speaker 3: who are the least qualified to talk about this, that

1168
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 3: are the loudest.

1169
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 1: Yeah no, you're so true. Yeah on. And there's a

1170
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 1: whole lot of other things that we forget that we

1171
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:22,080
Speaker 1: learned in high school, and this is one of those

1172
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:24,560
Speaker 1: things that you're going to remember. You're going to remember

1173
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 1: a buzz accent, and even if you don't put in

1174
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:27,920
Speaker 1: a natal right away, you're going to be like, years

1175
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:29,760
Speaker 1: later you make wait a second, I heard the compound.

1176
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:32,920
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, okay, yes, that's right. You're going to hear

1177
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:34,239
Speaker 1: one other thing that's going to trigger something.

1178
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:36,759
Speaker 2: There's a big difference between learning these things that third

1179
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:39,239
Speaker 2: and fourth grade versus like what you're saying in high

1180
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 2: school when it's immediately applicable thought. And that's what we're

1181
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:45,879
Speaker 2: talking about here. I don't know of any teenager who's

1182
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:49,200
Speaker 2: entering adulthood who isn't concerned at all about money. It's

1183
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:51,839
Speaker 2: something that they went more of and so teaching them

1184
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:55,760
Speaker 2: how to handle it properly I think needs to happen you, Nellie.

1185
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:58,239
Speaker 2: We are so glad that you that this is a

1186
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:00,640
Speaker 2: charge of a movement that you're leading, uh.

1187
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:01,719
Speaker 1: Thirty more states to go.

1188
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 2: Yes, but your book, your book, Mind your Money, that's

1189
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:08,840
Speaker 2: a part of this as well for anybody who just

1190
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,400
Speaker 2: wants to learn more and who isn't getting this kind

1191
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 2: of information at their school.

1192
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:15,279
Speaker 1: Where can folks learn more about you and find your book?

1193
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:16,840
Speaker 3: Yes, So if you want to follow along with me

1194
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:21,440
Speaker 3: on social media, it's at miss bee helpful. That's anywhere Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, TikTok,

1195
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:24,440
Speaker 3: miss be helpful, m I s s be helpful. And

1196
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 3: then for all things related to my book, a chapter, list,

1197
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:30,680
Speaker 3: details about it, buying it, mind your moneybook dot com.

1198
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:32,920
Speaker 1: Awesome you, Nelick, thanks so much for joining us. We

1199
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 1: really appreciate it.

1200
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:34,959
Speaker 3: Thank you guys. This is great, all.

1201
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 1: Right, Matt you gotta love you, gotta love you, Nelly good.

1202
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:40,759
Speaker 1: Just such a good conversation, What an interesting story, what

1203
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:44,440
Speaker 1: a but and just someone who who puts their money

1204
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 1: where their mouth is like she is. She is living

1205
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:50,880
Speaker 1: the life and putting into action all the things she

1206
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:54,399
Speaker 1: believes on a big scale. So I love what she's

1207
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:56,360
Speaker 1: up to. What was your big takeaway from this conversation.

1208
00:51:56,640 --> 00:51:58,920
Speaker 2: She shared a lot about her own personal story, right,

1209
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:01,960
Speaker 2: And what I love was when she was talking about

1210
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 2: specifically how to get family or friends on board, and

1211
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:07,319
Speaker 2: she was essentially she was she said like, don't tell

1212
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:10,759
Speaker 2: them about it necessarily, but show them, and she was

1213
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 2: talking about how you kind of start with the heart,

1214
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 2: you share a story with them. Essentially, what I was

1215
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 2: gathering from that was that she what it's important to

1216
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:20,839
Speaker 2: do is to be vulnerable, and I think when you

1217
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 2: are able to do that, you're able to kind of

1218
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:25,200
Speaker 2: maybe tear down any defenses that there might be with

1219
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:29,360
Speaker 2: whoever it is that you're trying to talk about money with. So, yeah,

1220
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:31,799
Speaker 2: that's my quick takeaway. Be vulnerable if you're trying to

1221
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 2: talk to others about personal finances.

1222
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:36,919
Speaker 1: But yeah, you said you find find new friends, don't

1223
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:38,480
Speaker 1: dit your old ones, find some new ones if you

1224
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:41,440
Speaker 1: need some other advice and encouragement.

1225
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 2: Think that's the silver lining to social media, which there's

1226
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:47,520
Speaker 2: not a whole lot of bright sides to social media.

1227
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:49,400
Speaker 1: You know that totally is one, and you don't want

1228
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:51,040
Speaker 1: to cancel people in your life, whether they have different

1229
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 1: political views, different money views, whatever it is for any reason.

1230
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:55,399
Speaker 1: But yeah, you also might need to find people who

1231
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:57,879
Speaker 1: are supportive of you in this new endeavor if you're

1232
00:52:57,880 --> 00:52:59,680
Speaker 1: trying to get your money together too. One of the things

1233
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:02,319
Speaker 1: she said at one point she met, she said every

1234
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:04,880
Speaker 1: dollar had a job when she was talking about her budget,

1235
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 1: and she was talking about the resolve to ensure that,

1236
00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:10,280
Speaker 1: like she didn't put any purchases on that credit card

1237
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 1: while she was paying it off. And I think that

1238
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:18,719
Speaker 1: mental fortitude is a part, yeah, of actually being able

1239
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:21,439
Speaker 1: to get the job done and getting straight with your money,

1240
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:23,520
Speaker 1: getting digging yourself out of the hole so you can

1241
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:25,360
Speaker 1: start to kind of build the mountain to move forward.

1242
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:27,560
Speaker 1: And so yeah, I love that she had that, like

1243
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 1: that fortitude to say, not even a twelve dollars charge

1244
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:34,000
Speaker 1: goes on this credit card, I'm gonna do without. And

1245
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:36,520
Speaker 1: I think that's for people who are in a hole

1246
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:40,920
Speaker 1: right now. It's we're not all a deprivation mentality. That's

1247
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:44,920
Speaker 1: not our jam, But for some people at certain places

1248
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:48,120
Speaker 1: in their personal finance journey, deprivation is necessary, right in

1249
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:51,560
Speaker 1: order to for a time be able to juici your

1250
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:54,040
Speaker 1: ability to make progress. That's what you, Nelly did. And

1251
00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:55,600
Speaker 1: now guess what if she wants to do. She go

1252
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:58,239
Speaker 1: get that massage every single week if she wants, which

1253
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:00,440
Speaker 1: is great because she's made so much progress. I think

1254
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:01,960
Speaker 1: it's just important for people to hear It's like, it

1255
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:04,000
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be all deprivation all the time, but

1256
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:06,959
Speaker 1: sometimes for a period, it's going to take a little

1257
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:09,239
Speaker 1: more of that intentional effort and a little bit of

1258
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:11,719
Speaker 1: saying no to yourself the things that you want and

1259
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 1: d I wind it, figuring out a way to get

1260
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:13,880
Speaker 1: around it, be creative.

1261
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:15,399
Speaker 2: There are still ways that you can do it. Yeah,

1262
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:17,319
Speaker 2: it's not just about the dollars and cents and the

1263
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:18,799
Speaker 2: money that she was able to save, but it's also

1264
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:20,560
Speaker 2: just a mindset thing and how she was able to

1265
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:23,400
Speaker 2: prove to herself, not only not only to herself, but

1266
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 2: also do her family that like, no, no, no, I'm

1267
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:27,040
Speaker 2: not playing it. I'm like, this is something that I'm

1268
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 2: going to get after and it takes sometimes a principled

1269
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:33,520
Speaker 2: stand like that in order to move the needle. But Joe,

1270
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:35,920
Speaker 2: let's talk about the beer you and I enjoyed during

1271
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:36,600
Speaker 2: this episode.

1272
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:37,600
Speaker 1: This was a code.

1273
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:41,319
Speaker 2: Breaker, a West Coast ipa by Trademark Brewing. What were

1274
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:42,239
Speaker 2: your thoughts on this one?

1275
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 1: Buddy, never had anything by this brewer before. Yeah, I

1276
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:47,799
Speaker 1: thought it was really good. It's West Coast. IPAs are

1277
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:50,480
Speaker 1: not typically my fave, but I really like this one.

1278
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:53,440
Speaker 1: It was like with you, maybe somewhat tank, but it

1279
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:57,840
Speaker 1: wasn't as bitter, it wasn't a little more juicy p Yeah. Yeah, yeah,

1280
00:54:57,960 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 1: he's a good middle of the road West Coast, not

1281
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:00,720
Speaker 1: too hot in that direction.

1282
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:01,320
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1283
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:03,880
Speaker 2: So we've been drinking a lot of East Coast or

1284
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:06,000
Speaker 2: New England Hazy's. And one of the great things about

1285
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:08,000
Speaker 2: West Coast Ipe's you don't have to worry about the sediment.

1286
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:10,160
Speaker 1: You know, that's true. You and I.

1287
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 2: Actually this wasn't even on the show. This you and

1288
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:15,800
Speaker 2: Emily the family came over and we're enjoying a beer

1289
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:18,200
Speaker 2: and it had a decent amount of sediment and some

1290
00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:19,439
Speaker 2: of you know, I was kind of swirling the can

1291
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:21,520
Speaker 2: ups that way, we both because a lot of times

1292
00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:24,920
Speaker 2: it's that hop bite that you find in that settlement.

1293
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:28,239
Speaker 1: It's like hop bits. I don't like eating a little

1294
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:30,040
Speaker 1: bit of a pepper, like a hot pepper, you know,

1295
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:31,759
Speaker 1: and you just get that concentrated on.

1296
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:33,279
Speaker 2: Swirl and making sure that you and I both have

1297
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:35,520
Speaker 2: this equal amounts of sediment.

1298
00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 1: Because that's flavor. But yeah, you gotta worry about that.

1299
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:39,680
Speaker 2: When it comes to a West Coast ipa, you pour

1300
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:43,640
Speaker 2: it perfectly clear, delicious, refreshing. This one specifically had some

1301
00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:46,080
Speaker 2: stone fruit I see, which I feel like definitely stood

1302
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:46,840
Speaker 2: out as.

1303
00:55:46,719 --> 00:55:48,560
Speaker 1: We were enjoying it. But yeah, glad you and I.

1304
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:51,600
Speaker 2: Got to enjoy a trademark beer. But Joe, that's going

1305
00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:53,200
Speaker 2: to be it for this episode. We'll make sure to

1306
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:55,719
Speaker 2: link to some of the different resources we talked about,

1307
00:55:55,719 --> 00:55:58,080
Speaker 2: and specifically where you can learn more about you Nelly

1308
00:55:58,200 --> 00:55:59,440
Speaker 2: find her book, and.

1309
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 1: If you're a teacher, you can link We'll link to

1310
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:04,239
Speaker 1: some of those next gen personal finance resources. They are

1311
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:09,760
Speaker 1: at the forefront of encouraging and promoting financial literacy in schools,

1312
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:11,960
Speaker 1: and you might be able to partner with Yellen Ian

1313
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:15,160
Speaker 1: Ellie to bring financial education to your state. If you're

1314
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:17,480
Speaker 1: a teacher, you can advocate for that, which is cool.

1315
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:20,000
Speaker 2: So there is real momentum behind what it is that

1316
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:21,640
Speaker 2: they're doing. But Buddy, that's going to be it for

1317
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:25,239
Speaker 2: this episode until next time. Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out,