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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's

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Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too, and this is Stuff you

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Speaker 2: should Know, good old fashioned pop culture games edition. Yeah

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Speaker 2: and yeah, here we are finally talking about scrabble. I've

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Speaker 2: been asking for you to do this with me for

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Speaker 2: at least a decade, and you kept refusing. I still

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Speaker 2: don't know why. Even Jerry chimed in and was like,

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Speaker 2: will you guys please do scrabble, and finally you relented.

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Speaker 2: I think just because you wanted me and Jerry to

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Speaker 2: stop bothering you about it.

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Speaker 3: No, it's probably it. A big thanks to Laura for

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Speaker 3: her help on this one.

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Speaker 2: Mm hmm.

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Speaker 3: What was your nickname for her?

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Speaker 2: Doctor Claw?

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Speaker 3: Doctor Claw? Do you play scrabble? Are you a scrabbler?

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Speaker 3: I just kind of wanted to get that out of

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Speaker 3: the way.

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Speaker 2: You know, I wish I were. I'm not, And it's

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Speaker 2: not like I have an aversion to it or anything

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Speaker 2: like that. It's just not part of my world. I guess,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, same, I mean we own it, and I have

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Speaker 3: played scrabble here and there. If somebody's like, hey, let's

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Speaker 3: play scrabble. I won't go like, no, sorry, I'm not

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Speaker 3: going to do it right, but you know, I'll play

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Speaker 3: very occasionally, but I've never been a regular scrabbler, nor

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Speaker 3: am I very good at it at all, especially if

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Speaker 3: I'm playing against somebody who you know, because there's a

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Speaker 3: lot more to it than just like knowing words.

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Speaker 2: Well, I feel like based on stuff you should know history.

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Speaker 2: Our best episodes are ones where we explain games that

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Speaker 2: we don't actually play. Soccer, chess, yeah, I mean the

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Speaker 2: list just keeps going on. It feels like we're about

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Speaker 2: to add to it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, surfing, yes, surfing. I mean we should probably just

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Speaker 3: say that scrabble if you don't know, it's a board

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Speaker 3: game in which two to four players use letters little

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Speaker 3: tiles to spell out words on a board and a

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Speaker 3: crossword fashion.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that was a good description.

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Speaker 3: In other words, you know, the words have to intersect

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Speaker 3: each other. You can't just throw a random word out

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Speaker 3: there in the corner if you feel like it. They

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Speaker 3: have to touch and use a letter or I guess

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Speaker 3: a blank space for another word.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And by the way, I just want to go ahead,

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Speaker 3: and because scrabble people are probably going to get mad

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Speaker 3: at us. But I'm going to go ahead and throw

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Speaker 3: a suggestive rule change. Okay, that there is a word scrabble,

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Speaker 3: and that means to as a verb, to scratch or grope,

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Speaker 3: to try and collect something, or as a now in

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Speaker 3: the act of doing that. And I propose that if

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Speaker 3: you play that eight letter word, that not only do

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Speaker 3: you get your bingo bonus for playing a seven letter word,

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Speaker 3: I think you should if you play the word scrabble,

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Speaker 3: you should get an extra bonus on.

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Speaker 2: Top of it of how many points million.

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Speaker 3: Whatever's fair. That's where I just step back and say,

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Speaker 3: you guys, handle it.

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Speaker 2: Okay, you like to kick the hornet's nest and then

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Speaker 2: watch them go.

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Speaker 3: I just think I don't know, if you play the

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Speaker 3: word scrab I will give it a little, just a

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Speaker 3: little bump.

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Speaker 2: I agree. I think you're right right.

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Speaker 3: That's my only suggestion, my only note.

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Speaker 2: A little more about it. The scrabble board is fifteen

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Speaker 2: by fifteen squares twenty five two hundred and twenty five

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Speaker 2: total squares. And because it's fifteen by fifteen, you're limited

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Speaker 2: to no more than fifteen letter words.

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Speaker 3: Sure, and.

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Speaker 2: I guess just a quick summary of the rules so

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Speaker 2: when you play that first word, you have to play

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Speaker 2: it in the center square. That's where you start, and

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Speaker 2: you can build off of other people's words. You get

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Speaker 2: up to fifteen letter words by building onto other words,

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Speaker 2: because you could never spell more than a seven letter word,

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Speaker 2: because at no point in time do you ever have

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Speaker 2: more than seven tiles.

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Speaker 3: Right, And as I said that seven tiles played it

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Speaker 3: once is called the bingo. You add up your score

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Speaker 3: at the end and tack on fifty points at that point, right,

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Speaker 3: or however many you get. Apparently experts can play like,

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Speaker 3: you know, three, four or five of those in a

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Speaker 3: game sometimes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, that's a great way to run up

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Speaker 2: scores from what I can tell. And then across the

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Speaker 2: board there's triple word scores, double word scores, double letter scores,

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Speaker 2: and triple letter scores. And basically when you lay a

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Speaker 2: tile over that, depending on whether it's a letter or

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Speaker 2: a word, you get bonus points for it. So when

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Speaker 2: you're like, like, if you play a bingo across like

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Speaker 2: a triple word score cooking, you got a bunch of points.

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Speaker 2: You basically just dusted your opponent in that one move.

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Speaker 3: Essentially, Yeah, I mean, if you're just sort of amateur

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Speaker 3: funzies scrabble people, one big bingo like that can seal

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Speaker 3: the game for you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm called sending a packing with tears in their eyes.

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Speaker 3: I think in France, by the way, the bingo is

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Speaker 3: called a scrabble just other nuts and bolts. You know.

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Speaker 3: The tiles come in a little their little wooden tiles,

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Speaker 3: little wooden square tiles, and on the tile is a

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Speaker 3: letter and then a point value sort of as a

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Speaker 3: sub script. And then you keep your letters on a

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Speaker 3: little wooden tile rack. And ideally your opponent does not

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Speaker 3: see those like you know, it's they're facing away from

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Speaker 3: you if you're opposite your opponent. And that's a big

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Speaker 3: part of like an expert, or at least an accomplished

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Speaker 3: or experienced scrabbleist is dummies like me and I guess you.

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Speaker 3: If you and I played, we just sit down and

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Speaker 3: try and spilt fart every chance we got. If you're

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Speaker 3: an experienced scrabblist, you're almost like counting cards, like you

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Speaker 3: know how many letters are in the bag of like

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Speaker 3: how many of each letter in the bag, and you

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Speaker 3: see them being played, you know how many are on

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Speaker 3: your rack? You know how many are still in the pile,

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Speaker 3: so you're sort of trying to figure out mathematical possibilities

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Speaker 3: of what's still out there and what can be played,

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Speaker 3: Like that's the next level stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. And it's not like evenly distributed. For example,

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Speaker 2: there's twelve e's, but there's only one J, K, Q,

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Speaker 2: X and Z, and then the other letters there is

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Speaker 2: kind of distributed in weird random ways, so that like

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Speaker 2: you could, I guess easily count that stuff. If you

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Speaker 2: play scrabble enough, you're just going to pick up on

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Speaker 2: how many are out there at any given point.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you've also got your blank tiles, which are worth

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Speaker 3: zero points, but that those really help out in making

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Speaker 3: words possible that you couldn't get ordinarily m hmm. And

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Speaker 3: then you've got your one pointers A E, I, L, N, O,

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Speaker 3: R S T and you.

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Speaker 2: And also just real quick, I did some poking around, Chuck,

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Speaker 2: and I found that there's some mnemonic devices that like

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Speaker 2: tournament level players use to remember how many points a

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Speaker 2: particular letter gets.

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Speaker 3: You should say that after I list them all.

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Speaker 2: Well, I was I was going to just do it

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Speaker 2: by by group, if that's okay with you. Sure, So

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Speaker 2: the first group one point they use astronauts eat in limbo. No, right,

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Speaker 2: silly tiger umbrella.

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Speaker 3: All right. The two pointers are DNG, Dave and Gary. Okay,

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Speaker 3: I would say dog gone. Three points are BCM and

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Speaker 3: p H.

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Speaker 2: That is be chewing and masticating pizza.

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Speaker 3: Does someone really suggests like, hey, use these and don't.

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Speaker 2: Make up your own No, I'm making this up.

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Speaker 3: I gotcha. This is all a bit. Okay, four points

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Speaker 3: we got fh VNW and why right?

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Speaker 2: So for Heaven's vake? Why you Okay?

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Speaker 3: I get it now. You should have told me this

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Speaker 3: is a bit. Five pointers, you get your k okay, okay, eight.

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Speaker 2: Pointers jn X Jackson loves and.

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Speaker 3: X okay Jackson loves.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you just have to ignore the the l okay.

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Speaker 3: Then your ten pointer Josh, what are you gonna end

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Speaker 3: up with?

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Speaker 2: Q and Z quarts and quartz?

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Speaker 3: That's great? I think I got it.

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Speaker 2: You got it?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, give me a quiz in the end. I'll put

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Speaker 3: this away and then you can just quizz me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Once you learn that, you'll never forget it.

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Speaker 3: There is a statistics professor at Carnegie Mellon Andrew Thomas,

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Speaker 3: who says, if you go first, you have an advantage

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Speaker 3: of fourteen points. If you have that blank tile. Ever

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Speaker 3: in the game, that's an advantage of thirty points if

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Speaker 3: you're good at scrabble, not like me.

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Speaker 2: Right, there's also like, if you have S tiles, there's

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Speaker 2: a ten point advantage. And the reason why I was

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Speaker 2: like that doesn't make any sense because S, as you

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Speaker 2: remember from your mnemonic device, is only a one point tile.

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Speaker 2: You should throw that on the end though, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's the thing. So like if you add if you,

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Speaker 2: like I said, you can add on to other words

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Speaker 2: that are already on the board, even once another player

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Speaker 2: wrote out and whatever word score they got for that word,

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Speaker 2: if you add an S, you get that same word

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Speaker 2: score plus one point for the ass. So that's a

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Speaker 2: really easy way to rack up some quick points and

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Speaker 2: totally I think also probably annoy other players.

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Speaker 3: I wonder about that. I'd like to hear from from scrabblers.

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Speaker 3: I mean, if it's fair game, it's fair game.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and there's but there's plenty of rules that are

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Speaker 2: fair game that are also like you're a jackass.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good point. Let me see here, what

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Speaker 3: else do we have? We have X and Z give

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Speaker 3: you a three to five point advantage even though they're

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Speaker 3: you know, tougher to use, and the Q is a

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Speaker 3: five point disadvantage because I mean, I was about to say,

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Speaker 3: you always have to have that U. But I'm sure

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Speaker 3: there are weird scrabble words that don't have a QU.

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Speaker 2: There's two that I know of.

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Speaker 3: One is key qi. Yeah, I think I heard of

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Speaker 3: uy or.

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Speaker 2: No, sorry, that's chi life force. I think, okay, and

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Speaker 2: you get eleven points for that one, and then I

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Speaker 2: can't remember. There's one more that's like a Q word

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Speaker 2: that doesn't not require a U. Oh.

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Speaker 3: No, Qi is in here because that's the highest scoring

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Speaker 3: two letter word along with za. Is that what you said?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I looked up za za Yeah, and it's

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Speaker 2: slang for pizza. I'm not certain that that usage is allowed.

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Speaker 2: But it's also an archaic word for a B flat notation. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I wonder if because I did the same thing you

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Speaker 3: did every time they gave it a Laura found an

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Speaker 3: example of a word that's unusual or high scoring. I

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Speaker 3: always looked it up because I was curious. I wonder

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Speaker 3: if that's part of the love of scrabble, is actually

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Speaker 3: learning what these words mean or they're like I really

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Speaker 3: don't care. I just care how much it's worth.

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Speaker 2: Well, from what I can tell, scrabble players don't care

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Speaker 2: what a word means. They don't think of them like that.

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Speaker 2: And I mean they'll come up later with those controversial words.

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Speaker 2: Oh sure, yeah, point, Yeah, it's just us. We're curious types.

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Speaker 2: Grabble players are not.

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Speaker 3: That's that's true. The highest scoring three letter word is

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Speaker 3: Zach's nineteen pointer, and zek is sixteen is a four

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Speaker 3: letter word worth the most at twenty two.

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Speaker 2: That means like a test of sorts.

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Speaker 3: Okay, and then zippy what does that mean?

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Speaker 2: The pinhead?

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Speaker 3: Zippy the pinhead? What's that?

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00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:16,080
Speaker 2: Oh, it's a really weird eighties comic strip, you know,

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Speaker 2: the clown with the Zippy the pinhead.

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Speaker 3: No, I don't know it.

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Speaker 2: You should look it up. It's it's weird. It's a

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Speaker 2: weird comic strip.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I don't know it.

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Speaker 1: But it couldn't be that.

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Speaker 2: Sorry, I have to correct myself before all of the

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Speaker 2: scrabble players email in. It couldn't be Zippy the pinhead

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Speaker 2: because Zippy the pinhead would be a proper noun.

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Speaker 3: Ah. Okay, good point. Things you can't use proper nouns.

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Speaker 2: No, you can't.

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Speaker 3: Might as well go ahead and say.

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Speaker 2: That they're really serious about that stuff too.

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Speaker 3: No, I bet. See, I'm a house rules guy, so

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Speaker 3: I can you know, as long as everyone's on board,

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Speaker 3: I think you can. You can have your own house

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Speaker 3: rules first. Oh, I agree, don't bring that into a tournament.

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Speaker 2: No, get that mess out of here, is what they'll

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Speaker 2: tell you. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: But like if I were to play with Ruby, she'd

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Speaker 3: and I'd probably say like, hey, we can use propernouns

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Speaker 3: because she'll want to put our dog's name or something,

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Speaker 3: or maybe I would, right. I did look up the

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Speaker 3: highest scoring bingo, and that is musjiks m u z

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Speaker 3: j i k s, which is a Russian peasant. Wow,

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Speaker 3: well that's probably it's probably Moujiku's or something.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I like it both ways, though musjis. Look at

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Speaker 2: all the muzzjiks toiling in the fields.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I like that.

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Speaker 2: So I was confused because there's a lot of like

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Speaker 2: one of the rules is no proper nouns, no words

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Speaker 2: that end an apostrophe or require an apostrophe. Yeah, and

259
00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:46,960
Speaker 2: then also no foreign words. But clearly some foreign words

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Speaker 2: are allowed in because they're so common in English that

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Speaker 2: they've just basically been adopted into the language. I get that,

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Speaker 2: but a musjis is not a common word in English,

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Speaker 2: so it must mean that that does appear in some

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Speaker 2: English dictionary somewhere, because that's kind of the great ruler arbiter.

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Speaker 2: But I just don't see how it could be. That's

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Speaker 2: just weird to me.

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Speaker 3: Well, what's weird is your college band I know for

268
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Speaker 3: a fact was Jake Clark and the Muschicks.

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Speaker 2: Yes, but we were trying to be exotic, you know.

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Speaker 3: And we should also say that scrabble, I think, is

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Speaker 3: now up to thirty languages all over the world, and

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Speaker 3: apparently that can be problematic, like in France you can

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Speaker 3: add an e and an S to many many words,

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Speaker 3: so it can kind of get out of hand with

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Speaker 3: the score totals. There. And our beloved Germany, and I

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Speaker 3: never really thought about this, but German words are long,

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Speaker 3: so there's not a lot of I mean, they're sure. Sure,

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00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:46,679
Speaker 3: there are obviously words shorter than seven words in Germany,

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Speaker 3: but a lot less than a lot of other languages.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true, So it must.

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Speaker 3: Just be Bingo City or whatever Bingo city is in German.

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Speaker 2: There's also Bingo. I don't know what city, Bingo b Shot,

283
00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:06,520
Speaker 2: maybe Bingo Stock. Sure, there's a so in some other

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00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:11,079
Speaker 2: countries too. In foreign language versions of Scrabble, there are

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Speaker 2: some adjustments with the tiles, like some have more than

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Speaker 2: one hundred tiles.

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Speaker 3: Oh right, because of weird little letters.

288
00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:21,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's like double L and double R. In the

289
00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:24,200
Speaker 2: Spanish language version. There's also the N with the till

290
00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:28,560
Speaker 2: day over it that that's also a tile. Yeah, I

291
00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:32,520
Speaker 2: think that's worth eight points. Nice, Yeah, but you have

292
00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:35,240
Speaker 2: to to remember that that's eight points. You have to say. Nice.

293
00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:38,960
Speaker 3: Right. Should we take a break? I like how this

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Speaker 3: is headed.

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00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:41,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, we'll be right back.

296
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Speaker 3: I want to learn about a terror sort of college dactyl,

297
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Speaker 3: how to take an that's a little.

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Speaker 1: Word up, Jerry.

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Speaker 3: All right, we're back. And if you're gonna talk about scrabble,

300
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Speaker 3: you got to talk about Alfred Mosher Butts because he

301
00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,800
Speaker 3: is the gentleman who invented this game. This is in

302
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Speaker 3: nineteen thirty eight. He was an unemployed architect at the

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00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:25,200
Speaker 3: time and just into games. He's from Poughkeepsie. But I

304
00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:27,600
Speaker 3: believe the game was actually invented Actually I know this

305
00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:30,720
Speaker 3: for a fact in Jackson Heights Queen's because at eighty

306
00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:34,520
Speaker 3: first Street and thirty fifth Avenue, I believe is a

307
00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:39,600
Speaker 3: scrabble style street sign. I think it's. I think it's

308
00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:43,280
Speaker 3: thirty fifth Avenue has below each of the letters just

309
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Speaker 3: the little number value subscript, which is kind of just

310
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Speaker 3: a little nice, fun, cute nod.

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Speaker 2: Are you sure it's just that that community in particular

312
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Speaker 2: isn't big scrabble fans.

313
00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:53,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm positive.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So he.

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Speaker 2: Did you say he was an unemployed architect.

316
00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:01,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, at the time, and he was just into gaming

317
00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:03,320
Speaker 3: and wanted to invent a game that was part chance,

318
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Speaker 3: part skill.

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00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:07,760
Speaker 2: Yeah. So he did not have a great success with

320
00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,000
Speaker 2: it out of the gate. He initially tried to call

321
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:13,960
Speaker 2: it Lexico and criss crosswords, and he took it around

322
00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:16,680
Speaker 2: to game manufacturers and they were like, nah, I'm not

323
00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:19,600
Speaker 2: really feeling this. Yeah, And that was the way it

324
00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:22,280
Speaker 2: went for a good decade before a man named James

325
00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:26,000
Speaker 2: Bruno bought the rights. He saw something in it that

326
00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:30,240
Speaker 2: I guess other people didn't. He renamed it Scrabble. He

327
00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:32,440
Speaker 2: changed the gameplay a little bit. One of the biggest

328
00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:35,760
Speaker 2: changes he made was that the way that Moser Butts

329
00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,360
Speaker 2: had come up with is that you just thought the

330
00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:42,440
Speaker 2: word in like a kind of a mental version of

331
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Speaker 2: the board, and the other player hopefully was able to

332
00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,080
Speaker 2: pick up on the word you were thinking. And so

333
00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:51,480
Speaker 2: Bruneau was like, maybe we should just replace with an

334
00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:54,320
Speaker 2: actual board and tiles, and that really kind of helped

335
00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:56,200
Speaker 2: move things along a bunch.

336
00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:00,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I looked up this James Brunet, and

337
00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:02,280
Speaker 3: you know, we get a lot of great information a

338
00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:05,560
Speaker 3: lot of times from New York Times obituaries. And he

339
00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:08,000
Speaker 3: was a friend of Butts, and so they used to

340
00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:12,439
Speaker 3: play scrabble together on occasion, like their homemade version. And

341
00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:14,120
Speaker 3: once this guy took it over, he and his wife

342
00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:18,000
Speaker 3: Helen like operated out of their house and he was

343
00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:21,000
Speaker 3: like a certain point, like all that was in our

344
00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:24,520
Speaker 3: house was boxes of tiles and racks and boards, and

345
00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:28,120
Speaker 3: we could move around. So they had to. They moved

346
00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:33,840
Speaker 3: to an abandoned schoolhouse and then eventually a converted wood

347
00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:37,440
Speaker 3: working shop, and they had thirty five employees working two shifts,

348
00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:43,159
Speaker 3: producing six thousand scrabble sets sets a week by fifty

349
00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:45,360
Speaker 3: three by nineteen fifty three, So.

350
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Speaker 2: Within five years of him buying the rights, that is correct, sir, okay,

351
00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:55,920
Speaker 2: So that the year before that. I've seen it told

352
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,679
Speaker 2: as a legend or a widely told story. Laura put it.

353
00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:02,359
Speaker 2: I don't know why no one's like, yeah, that's what happened.

354
00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:07,720
Speaker 2: But supposedly the president of Macy's came across the game,

355
00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:12,080
Speaker 2: I'm not sure how played it, liked it, ordered a

356
00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:15,439
Speaker 2: bunch to stock up. Of course, that meant gimbals immediately

357
00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:19,920
Speaker 2: followed suit, and so the game took off from there.

358
00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:23,040
Speaker 2: So this would have been nineteen fifty two when that

359
00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:24,320
Speaker 2: supposedly happened.

360
00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:25,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, that makes sense.

361
00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Bruno was like, we can't possibly keep up

362
00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:31,000
Speaker 2: with this demand, like this is just skyrocketed, which is great.

363
00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:34,240
Speaker 2: But they turned to a company, a game maker called

364
00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:38,320
Speaker 2: Selcho and Writer, and they took over making the game,

365
00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:42,920
Speaker 2: and they did so for decades. They were the people

366
00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:45,120
Speaker 2: who made Scrabble for a really long time. And within

367
00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:50,680
Speaker 2: two years, two years of that great Macy's president story happening,

368
00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:53,679
Speaker 2: four and a half million copies were sold. Like it

369
00:18:53,960 --> 00:19:00,679
Speaker 2: just hit America, like you know, a giant packet of

370
00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:05,360
Speaker 2: pop rocks and diet coke formentos.

371
00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:07,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, or like a ton n e of bricks, which

372
00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:12,200
Speaker 3: is worth more than ton nice Jeff so that's selling

373
00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:14,879
Speaker 3: pretty good. I think they've sold. They estimate about one

374
00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,840
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty million total sets as of you know,

375
00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,240
Speaker 3: kind of now, even though it's hard to get a

376
00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:25,240
Speaker 3: real firm number on that. But they bought that trademark

377
00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:28,359
Speaker 3: Selchow and writer I want to say Richter there, but

378
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:32,400
Speaker 3: it is Writer bought that trademark from them. In seventy two,

379
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,680
Speaker 3: Bruno got a million and a half bucks, which would

380
00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:38,840
Speaker 3: be about twelve million today. And this, by the way,

381
00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:42,040
Speaker 3: was like he was looking for something to do in retirement.

382
00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:46,800
Speaker 3: So wow, he really scored. That's a triple letter retirement gig,

383
00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:51,160
Speaker 3: I would say, or triple word even. And then the inventor,

384
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:53,240
Speaker 3: mister Butts, got two hundred and sixty five grand wi

385
00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:55,600
Speaker 3: should be about two million bucks. Plus he got a

386
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,200
Speaker 3: very small royalty that he seemed to be pretty happy with.

387
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, he sounds like a great This is one of

388
00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:03,680
Speaker 2: the more heartwarming quotes I've come across in a while.

389
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:08,720
Speaker 2: He was interviewed in nineteen eighty four about his invention,

390
00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,000
Speaker 2: and he said people are always asking me if I'm rich.

391
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:14,600
Speaker 2: I used to get two to three cents for each

392
00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:17,680
Speaker 2: game sold. One third went to taxes. I gave one

393
00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:20,000
Speaker 2: third away and the other third enabled me to have

394
00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:24,560
Speaker 2: an enjoyable life. Great, and if there's such thing as heaven,

395
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:27,680
Speaker 2: I believe that mister Butts is there right now.

396
00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:29,439
Speaker 3: I think so too. He would have been in his

397
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:31,320
Speaker 3: eighties then too, because I think he died in the

398
00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:32,920
Speaker 3: early nineties. In his nineties.

399
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:39,520
Speaker 2: Okay, well, there you go. He had a great life, apparently.

400
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:39,920
Speaker 3: I love it.

401
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:43,760
Speaker 2: So things turned kind of dark when the Cabbage Patch

402
00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:48,359
Speaker 2: Kids bought Selcho and Writer in nineteen eighty six.

403
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,600
Speaker 3: You don't want to hear some funny what. Every time

404
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:55,199
Speaker 3: I looked at that word, I said colco oh, and

405
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:57,439
Speaker 3: I was like, well, I was like, that's so weird,

406
00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,399
Speaker 3: Like I grew up with Calico toys. Yeah, and I

407
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:02,119
Speaker 3: just kept seeing it as colc and I was like,

408
00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:04,360
Speaker 3: wait a minute, dummy, it's Calico.

409
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:08,840
Speaker 2: Well you must be a scrabbleist, because that would just

410
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:12,439
Speaker 2: be like the word construct without any right of meaning

411
00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:14,680
Speaker 2: to it. So you're in there, Chuck. You really did

412
00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:15,920
Speaker 2: some method research?

413
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:17,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe so so.

414
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:23,720
Speaker 2: Kalico. Yes, bought Selcho and Writer and just did not

415
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:27,920
Speaker 2: really give much of a care about scrabble. I mean,

416
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:30,639
Speaker 2: it was just a money maker. To them. Apparently they

417
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:34,920
Speaker 2: were already in trouble, which is nuts that they declared

418
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:38,640
Speaker 2: bankruptcy by nineteen eighty nine. I think I can't remember.

419
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,120
Speaker 2: Surely we talked about it in our Cabbage Patch Kids

420
00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:46,480
Speaker 2: episode why that happened. But to go from having one

421
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:49,320
Speaker 2: of the hottest toys in the history of toys to

422
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:53,880
Speaker 2: bankrupt in the same decade as breathtaking as far as

423
00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:58,000
Speaker 2: business goes. But when Calico declared bankruptcy, has Bro stepped

424
00:21:58,040 --> 00:21:59,959
Speaker 2: in and they did seem to care a lot more

425
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:04,960
Speaker 2: about Scrabble, and so under their ownership, I think it's

426
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:09,359
Speaker 2: still owned by Hasbro if I'm not mistaken. It's been finitid.

427
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,800
Speaker 2: It's ups and downs, as we'll see. But there was

428
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:15,800
Speaker 2: also a bidding war for the international rights to produce Scrabble,

429
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:18,920
Speaker 2: and matel beat them out for that right, and that

430
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,639
Speaker 2: I can't imagine what a plumb that is. But it

431
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 2: also occurred to me, and I know we've done an

432
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:30,119
Speaker 2: episode on intellectual property, but there's like there's some fictitious

433
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:34,479
Speaker 2: right out there that says this one company is allowed

434
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 2: to produce all the games just internationally, this other company

435
00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:41,199
Speaker 2: has this other fictitious right to produce all of the

436
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,159
Speaker 2: games just inside of the United States, And it's just

437
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,520
Speaker 2: so mind blowing to me that we've just kind of

438
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 2: created that kind of made up structure for things, and

439
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:56,200
Speaker 2: how much just gobs of money that legal fiction creates

440
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 2: for people.

441
00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:59,679
Speaker 3: Are you pushing for just an open source world?

442
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,560
Speaker 2: No, not necessarily. I don't have a problem with it.

443
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,440
Speaker 2: I was more just astounded behind Yeah, you.

444
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,919
Speaker 3: Know, yeah, No, it's interesting. I mean, I mean, have

445
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:12,800
Speaker 3: you ever dug into like TV rights for professional sports leagues?

446
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 2: Oh, my god, is that I'll bet that's quite a jungle.

447
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is. And it's gotten really really expensive. Like

448
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 3: when you see the numbers, like you know, Amazon acquires

449
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:24,160
Speaker 3: the right to air whatever Sunday Night football.

450
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:25,640
Speaker 2: Or something, it's just like, oh, yeah, yeah.

451
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:27,879
Speaker 3: I astounding what kind of money we're talking about?

452
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:28,400
Speaker 2: For sure.

453
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 3: Anyway, I guess we can move on to competitive scrabble,

454
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:34,679
Speaker 3: because you know, a lot of people just play for

455
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 3: fundzies at home. I know, our bud John Hodgman and

456
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:45,359
Speaker 3: his lovely wife Catherine play like for decades now because

457
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 3: they're high school sweethearts, so they're long, long, long term scrabblers,

458
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 3: you know, against each other. I kind of wanted to

459
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 3: find out if there was a lifetime record that they

460
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 3: keep up with surely, but then I just decided not

461
00:23:58,680 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 3: to ask.

462
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, Hodgman used to live tweet their games, Oh he did. Yeah,

463
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 2: it was really cute to just kind of follow along.

464
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,439
Speaker 3: I bet they're both good because Catherine's an English teacher

465
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 3: and John is you know, knows a lot of words.

466
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,679
Speaker 2: Yeah. Any anybody who knows Hodgman too, right when they

467
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 2: saw the scrabble episode of stuff you should know, knew

468
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:21,800
Speaker 2: that there was one hundred percent chance. Yeah, Dodgmen was

469
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:23,719
Speaker 2: going to come up at some point in time. For

470
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 2: sure he.

471
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:25,680
Speaker 3: Would have complained if we hadn't.

472
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. He's a scrabble scrabble guy for sure.

473
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, he would smoke me. In fact, I feel like

474
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:35,640
Speaker 3: I might have played him once on one of these

475
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:40,160
Speaker 3: trips that I used to do with him for maximum fun.

476
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 3: But I don't know if we did play, it was

477
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 3: not even competitive at all. I'm sure I don't see

478
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 3: why he would have played. I don't see why he

479
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 3: would have played me, because I'm really just you know,

480
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:55,199
Speaker 3: I'm like Steve Carell and Anchorman, Like I'll try to

481
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 3: spell lamp. It's just because I looked at one.

482
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 2: You know, hey, man, if to some points, who cares.

483
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, you and I probably be pretty good matchup.

484
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so too. We should play sometime.

485
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:12,120
Speaker 3: Yeah. Okay, So that sounded unenthusiastic. I meant hell yeah, buddy.

486
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 2: All right, Sorry you can't see me, but I'm raising

487
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 2: the roof right now.

488
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:16,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's do it.

489
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 2: So you mentioned competitive scrabble that there are tournaments, which

490
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,399
Speaker 2: isn't very surprising. I mean, people are into scrabble, so

491
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 2: when you start throwing money down for like prize money

492
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 2: for tournaments, people are going to flock to them. And

493
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:38,360
Speaker 2: for years, the main the biggest scrabble tournament, what they

494
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 2: called nationals, was the North American Invitational Scrabble Players Tournament,

495
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:48,199
Speaker 2: which had its inaugural championship in nineteen seventy eight and

496
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 2: was held every year through to two thousand and nine.

497
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 2: And Selcho and Writer actually formed the National Scrabble Association,

498
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 2: which was very smart because that kind of thing generates

499
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:05,719
Speaker 2: a lot of interest, enthusiasm. Newspapers cover Oh it's so crazy,

500
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,959
Speaker 2: there's a scrabble championship right now, and like it just

501
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,880
Speaker 2: helps keep the thing topical, you know, instead of just

502
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 2: letting people buy it and crossing your fingers that kind

503
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 2: of thing. It was a pretty smart business venture. And then,

504
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,959
Speaker 2: like I said, Callco came along, they did nothing for it.

505
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 2: Apparently the Players Association had to shame Kalico into chipping

506
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 2: in five thousand dollars for prize money for the national tournament.

507
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 2: And then when Hasbro came along, they started funding it

508
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 2: a lot more lavishly. But then they kind of said,

509
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 2: you know, this isn't actually worth it anymore. You guys

510
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:48,679
Speaker 2: are you know, maybe a few hundred people coming to

511
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 2: these tournaments and you all have all of the scrabble

512
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,880
Speaker 2: boards that you're ever gonna need and I gonna buy anymore.

513
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 2: So they stopped funding those and they actually shut down

514
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:04,239
Speaker 2: that the National Scrabble Association. So an independent version came up,

515
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 2: the North American Scrabble Players Association, I think back in

516
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 2: two thousand and nine is when it was formed.

517
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, and before anyone writes in technically they didn't completely

518
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 3: shut down the Nssay, they just stopped there. They weren't

519
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 3: in charge of the tournaments anymore. They just they moved

520
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 3: them over to another program called School Scrabble.

521
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,640
Speaker 2: Yes, because those kids have a long life of buying

522
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 2: scrabble boards ahead of them.

523
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,360
Speaker 3: That's right. You mentioned ups and downs over the years.

524
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 3: You know. I guess all board games go through kind

525
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,160
Speaker 3: of boom periods and bus periods, or at least low periods,

526
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 3: and scrabble is no different. There was an early two

527
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 3: thousands boom. There were televised tournaments. It's interesting what drives

528
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 3: this stuff. I don't know if they know on the inside,

529
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,119
Speaker 3: but I couldn't figure out why it would have had

530
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,120
Speaker 3: a boom in the two thousands. Early two thousands.

531
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 2: Oh, a documentary called Word Freaks. I believe, oh that

532
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 2: it introduced it to a whole new generation.

533
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 3: Oh okay, well your.

534
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 2: Head and yeah, and it took off like it like

535
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 2: Hasbro has a lot to be thankful for from that

536
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 2: documentary from what I understand.

537
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 3: Oh, I bet the New York Times Crossword documentary to

538
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 3: kick that up a notch.

539
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, that was a great one.

540
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 3: But we're not talking crosswords again, so don't worry.

541
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 2: It just busted out and sweat.

542
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 3: You gotta flop, So what happening? There were seventy five

543
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 3: thousand rated scrabble tournament games in two thousand and four.

544
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 3: And that number by twenty nineteen was cut almost in half.

545
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 3: That went down to forty thousand, and the Nationals went

546
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 3: from eight hundred and thirty seven players to two eighty

547
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 3: over that same span. So it just seems like that

548
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 3: documentary really caused a resurgence, I guess, and then it

549
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 3: kind of went back to level set maybe.

550
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. There was also a lot of internal

551
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:56,239
Speaker 2: strife to the North American Scrabble Players Association. Didn't make

552
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 2: a lot of friends. They established a real top down

553
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 2: hierarchy of how that association was run, so some other

554
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 2: players associations were developed splintered off. There was a lot

555
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 2: of fracture I guess in the scrabble community that just

556
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 2: kind of came around that time. That surely affected attracting

557
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 2: new people. Like I hate to use the word toxic

558
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 2: because I feel like it's definitely overused, but it feels

559
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 2: like that community got a lot more toxic around that time,

560
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 2: And you know that doesn't exactly attract people like, Hey,

561
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 2: I wanted to join that toxic subculture really mix it up.

562
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, well some people are into that.

563
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, those aren't the people you want to attract your

564
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 2: toxic subculture though.

565
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, or play scrabble with. Right, if you're in a tournament,

566
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 3: you're going to see some big scores they have, you know,

567
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 3: scores over eight hundred points at times in tournaments. The

568
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 3: highest scoring legal word I don't think it's ever been

569
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 3: played officially, but that would be yes, one thousand, seven

570
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 3: hundred and eighty four point score if that was across

571
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 3: three different triple word scorers. That word is oxy oxyfin bututazone.

572
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a now banned and said pain reliever.

573
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 3: That's right. And since I know you looked it up

574
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 3: because I did too, I'll let you give the definition

575
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 3: of cazique, which is the highest score ever for a

576
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 3: word played in a tournament. Three hundred and ninety two

577
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 3: points for cazique.

578
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 2: So, yeah, so that one. From what I could tell,

579
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 2: I found that as a Spanish word for an indigenous chieftain,

580
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 2: usually among Caribbean tribes.

581
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 3: Yeah. I saw that the Taino people like the indigenous Bahamians, right,

582
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 3: and that was actually played amazing.

583
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's so that's one word for three

584
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 2: hundred and ninety two points. To put that into perspective,

585
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 2: a good you know, average person's scrabble score. From what

586
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 2: I could tell couple to a few hundred points. This

587
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 2: is like a scrabble score with just a high scrabble

588
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 2: score with just one one word. This is like the

589
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 2: level that these people are playing at. And Chuck, I

590
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 2: I say, we take another break and we'll come back

591
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 2: and we'll poke around in the brains of those high

592
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 2: level scrabble players and see what neurologists have found out recently.

593
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 3: Let's do it. I want to learn about a terror

594
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 3: in college dactyl how to take a perg.

595
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 2: Is gone.

596
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 3: That's another.

597
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 1: Word up, Jerry, Okay, Chuck.

598
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 2: So we've kind of made mentioned a couple of times

599
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 2: that people who play scrabble like think of words differently

600
00:31:55,800 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 2: than normis too, and there have been studies using the

601
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 2: Wonder Machine, in particular by neurologists of the brains of

602
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 2: people who play scrabble, because there's a lot of long

603
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 2: standing discussions, rival theories and hypotheses about how we process

604
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 2: words and information associated with words, and by studying scrabble players,

605
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 2: like high level scrabble players, they found that their brains

606
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 2: literally work different when it comes to words.

607
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, take it away.

608
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 2: Well, one of the studies, I can't remember what year

609
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 2: it was, I actually failed to look now that I

610
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 2: think about it. They found that when you put the

611
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 2: put a scrabble player through what's called the lexical decision task,

612
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 2: which is showing people very quickly jumbles of words and

613
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 2: saying is there a word in there too late? Is

614
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 2: there a word too late? They have to answer really

615
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 2: quick and there's always some lab assistant shouting too late

616
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 2: and really just mix things up a little bit. Scrabble

617
00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 2: players use regions of their brains that most people wouldn't use.

618
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 2: They and they don't use regions of their brains that

619
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 2: people normally do use. Say so, like when you think

620
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 2: of a word, you think of the meaning. Usually that's

621
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 2: how you grasp a word when and you're really kind

622
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 2: of processing what the word is, there's a meaning attached

623
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 2: to it, there's a symbolism attached to it. With a

624
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 2: scrabble player, they do not think like that. They think

625
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 2: of words as physical constructs of letters. There's no meanings

626
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 2: aren't attached to them. That takes too long. They process

627
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 2: them much more quickly because it's just a bunch of

628
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 2: letters that you put together. It doesn't matter what it means.

629
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 2: It just matters that you can get this number of

630
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 2: points on a scrabble board. One of the other things

631
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 2: they found is that they also use more spatial reasoning

632
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 2: than the average person does when they're recognizing and processing

633
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 2: words and letters, because they have to figure out how

634
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 2: to orient them on the board and how they would

635
00:33:55,960 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 2: intersect with other words on the board. So the brains

636
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 2: change in the way they approach words change the more

637
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 2: scrabble you play.

638
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's it's almost like Tetris, like in

639
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 3: their brains at a certain point, like they might as

640
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 3: well just be Tetris blocks that are trying to fit in.

641
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 3: Obviously not Tetris because you can't make you know your

642
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:17,759
Speaker 3: own size and shaped things.

643
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 2: But you know what I mean, Sure, I know it,

644
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 2: you mean, I think I think it's a good analogy.

645
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 3: There's some other cool studies that there are, you know,

646
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 3: kind of findings they found from different studies. The setup

647
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 3: of this one is basically that if you have a

648
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:34,279
Speaker 3: college degree, they have found that you're less likely than

649
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 3: those without with you know, less education to get age

650
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:43,320
Speaker 3: related memory loss in Alzheimer's. But in terms of scrabble,

651
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 3: they found that that gap can be closed a lot

652
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 3: if you don't have that college degree and you play

653
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 3: a lot of scrabble, you can close that gap to

654
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,320
Speaker 3: where it's almost the same as people with higher levels

655
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 3: of education as far as acquiring that memory loss in

656
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 3: Alzheimer's pretty great.

657
00:34:58,640 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 2: Take that, college boy.

658
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 3: What about the Ruskies? That was interesting too.

659
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 2: I thought, Yeah, they studied Russian engineering students, and by they,

660
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 2: I mean the people who conducted this study. And they said, here,

661
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 2: Russian engineering students, we're going to teach you scrabble and

662
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:13,839
Speaker 2: you're going to play it for a year, and then

663
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 2: we're going to test you. We're going to have you

664
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 2: play teachers who teach English as a foreign language. So

665
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 2: they're Russian, but they know a lot of English, and

666
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 2: we're going to play the English language scrabble by the way,

667
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 2: So there's all the pieces on the board right there.

668
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 2: And what they found is that the engineering students who

669
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 2: didn't speak that much English were able to i think,

670
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 2: in the words of the study, smoke the English as

671
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 2: a foreign language teachers in scrabble.

672
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 3: That's incredible.

673
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, even though the teachers knew more English than the

674
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:45,759
Speaker 2: engineering students did.

675
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's super cool. They've also found that for tournament

676
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:57,319
Speaker 3: play men dominate tournament scrabble tournaments generally speaking. But they've

677
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 3: done studies of this and they're like, hey, it's not

678
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:05,439
Speaker 3: because men have big brains and women have little, tiny brains. Yeah,

679
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 3: it's not because guys can learn words better than women.

680
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:10,359
Speaker 3: Has nothing to do with any of that. It has

681
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 3: to do with the fact that in general, overall, men

682
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,959
Speaker 3: start younger than women do. Boys, I guess start younger

683
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,840
Speaker 3: than girls when it comes to scrabble, and women generally

684
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 3: and girls play more scrabble. But they say that's not

685
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 3: necessarily how to get better at scrabble. They're playing for

686
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 3: fun and just having a good time, Whereas to get

687
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 3: better at scrabble, what these boys and men seem to

688
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 3: be doing more of is like anagramming stuff and analyzing

689
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 3: everything and instead of just like, hey, let's just play

690
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 3: some scrabble and have some fun, Like, let me research

691
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 3: and analyze this stuff so I can dominate in a

692
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:45,719
Speaker 3: tournament exactly.

693
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 2: But I mean, that's how you get better at apparently

694
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,360
Speaker 2: anagram It was a huge thing to do if you

695
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:53,839
Speaker 2: want to get better at scrabble, because when you look

696
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,839
Speaker 2: at the you know, there's seven tiles on your tileholder,

697
00:36:57,640 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 2: it's just a jumble of letters, and you have to

698
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 2: find the words in those letters. That's part of the game.

699
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 2: So if you go practice that, yeah, you're gonna get

700
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:08,839
Speaker 2: a lot better. But I saw that among just the

701
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 2: population in general, just people who play scrabble for fun,

702
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 2: it's much more closely divided. It's more like sixty forty

703
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:17,240
Speaker 2: men to women.

704
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, and I think it's changed a lot over

705
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:20,839
Speaker 3: the past couple of decades too.

706
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that documentary probably helped quite a bit.

707
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, when it comes to like, all right, what words, Like,

708
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 3: what dictionary do you use? There is a Scrabble Dictionary.

709
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 3: It's called the Official Scrabble Player's Dictionary, was released in

710
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy eight, again by Selchow and Writer, even though

711
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 3: they worked with Merriam Webster to produce the game, because

712
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:44,360
Speaker 3: you know, they're dictionary people, and this has caused a

713
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 3: lot of controversy over the years because words have been added,

714
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 3: words have been taken away, and every time that happens

715
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,799
Speaker 3: the scrabble community, you know, some people are like, great,

716
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 3: great change, and some people are like, no, I hate that.

717
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, because to them they're just words. The meaning has

718
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:06,320
Speaker 2: no purpose or point whatsoever in the game. It doesn't matter.

719
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 2: So why would you take any words out that we

720
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:11,799
Speaker 2: could potentially use and score with.

721
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 3: Some of the worst and the worst racial slurs out

722
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:18,280
Speaker 3: there have been in the Scrabble Dictionary.

723
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, do you want to tell some people?

724
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I'm not gonna say those, but there

725
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 3: is a list. I think there was a woman named

726
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:30,360
Speaker 3: Judith Grad in the nineties who kind of got on

727
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 3: her I don't want to say got on her soapbox

728
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:35,240
Speaker 3: because that indicates a bad thing. She got a campaign

729
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 3: going to have these slurs removed. The Anti Defamation League

730
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 3: got involved. Hasbro eventually said, all right, we're gonna remove

731
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 3: these words from the next edition of the dictionary. Booby gringo, farted, honky,

732
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,280
Speaker 3: Whitey's pissed, fatso redneck, and wazoo.

733
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 2: And Jerry best of luck beeping all those out.

734
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 3: This should be pretty easy.

735
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:03,919
Speaker 2: So yeah, So there were a lot of scribble players

736
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 2: who were like, this is outrageous. Who cares about offensiveness?

737
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 2: And other people are like, this is kind of society

738
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:15,439
Speaker 2: evolving in real time right here. So I guess has

739
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:18,959
Speaker 2: Bro made a compromise and they said, well, how about

740
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:22,839
Speaker 2: this for tournament level, We'll keep the original. We won't

741
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,399
Speaker 2: take these words out. We'll have a separate book called

742
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 2: the Official Word List. Among players, it's called TWL ninety eight.

743
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 2: That's when it came out as nineteen ninety eight. But

744
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 2: for everybody else. And that, by the way, the TWL

745
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety or ninety eight is just available to Players

746
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:44,320
Speaker 2: Association members, so it's not like available in general public.

747
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 2: And then the other one, the toned down version, that's

748
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:52,279
Speaker 2: the one that the public will be able to get

749
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 2: their hands on.

750
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, And that was in the early two thousands, and

751
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 3: then in twenty twenty, the Official Tournament removed a lot

752
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:01,919
Speaker 3: of those slurs that they previously allowed for tournament play. Right,

753
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 3: and I also mentioned, you know, adding words. Over the

754
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 3: past few years, they've added hundreds of words. Jedi subtweet

755
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 3: vacs have been added. Beria as in Beria, tacos has

756
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 3: been added.

757
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 2: Oh and I discovered a new dish from this too,

758
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:22,879
Speaker 2: Chuck cuckhumber usually spelled with a K, but apparently it's

759
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 2: also okay to spell with the C. It's an Indian

760
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 2: dish featuring cucumbers. It's like a fresh tomato cucumber salad.

761
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 2: And actually I should correct myself. I think it could

762
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 2: be Indian, but it's also possibly like Anatolian. I'm not

763
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:39,839
Speaker 2: a hunt okity, sure, but it sounds delish. I'll send

764
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 2: you the recipe, all right, do it.

765
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 3: They also had slang from time to time, apparently I'm

766
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:48,719
Speaker 3: a I am m A as in I'm going to

767
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 3: like I'm about to do something right.

768
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,359
Speaker 2: You can play that, yeah, you could. You could also

769
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 2: play yeat, which is that I don't know many you know,

770
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 2: I really feel like I've outed myself in the last

771
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 2: couple episodes as skimbity to it buddy, not the edge

772
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 2: lord that people assume that I am edged lord.

773
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,839
Speaker 3: There has been some cheating over the years. We'll talk

774
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 3: about a couple of these incidents. Incidents. In twenty eleven,

775
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 3: there was a World Scrabble Championship between a tie player

776
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 3: named cholapot et Ari and a British guy named Ed

777
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:28,319
Speaker 3: Martin because it was a missing G E tile. And

778
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:31,359
Speaker 3: there's a lot of versions of this story. Apparently Time

779
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 3: Magazine and some scrabble websites say that Etri called for

780
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 3: Martin to be strip searched for that g and the

781
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 3: tournament officials were like, no, we're not going to do that.

782
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 2: We don't want to.

783
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:45,879
Speaker 3: In mental floss, they said that, you know, they asked

784
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 3: them to turn their pockets inside out, and that eventually

785
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 3: just escalated to like, hey, maybe they hit it in

786
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:51,840
Speaker 3: their pants, they should be stripped searched.

787
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 2: Maybe it's yeah, that's why you strip searched.

788
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, is that is that in the Scrabble dictionary.

789
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 2: There's no way that it's not. As a matter of fact,

790
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 2: you keep talking, you tell the story, and I'm going

791
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 2: to look it up.

792
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 3: Uh. And then what they eventually found out was that

793
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 3: the missing G was in the pocket of another player

794
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 3: from a previous game. And what I want to know is,

795
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:23,239
Speaker 3: like who who's running these tournaments? Like how are you

796
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 3: not counting the letters before the game or cracking up

797
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 3: in a brand new scrabble seal factory sealed Scrabble, Like

798
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 3: you got to count those letters, You got to make sure.

799
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:35,400
Speaker 3: That's like playing chess without like a pawn and just

800
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:36,800
Speaker 3: being like, oh it looks good to me.

801
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's nuts. It's also nuts. Just how how many

802
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 2: players do cheat in like high level tournaments.

803
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 3: Like that kid, Yeah there was a kid.

804
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 2: He was thirteen, so he's unnamed as far as I

805
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:50,879
Speaker 2: can tell.

806
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 3: He's of age. Now we should find him out in dots.

807
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 2: He was playing down in Orlando at the Scrabble Nationals

808
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 2: in twenty twelve, and he got caught palming blank tiles.

809
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:06,720
Speaker 2: And I don't know that we even mentioned what blank

810
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:09,760
Speaker 2: tiles are good for, but they well, they can stand.

811
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 2: They're like a wild card. They stand in for any

812
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 2: letter that you want, so they can really come in

813
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 2: handy when you have like a bunch of letters but

814
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,239
Speaker 2: you just can't quite connect them. That blank tile comes

815
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 2: in there and you say, thanks, blank tile. So if

816
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 2: you have that, you have a huge advantage. So finally,

817
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 2: this kid was caught cheating. But this was on the

818
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:29,919
Speaker 2: heels of a year before when he won the two

819
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 2: thousand dollars prize for winning, even though apparently statistically the

820
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 2: percentage of blank tiles that he came up with across

821
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 2: the game or the games that he played throughout that

822
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 2: tournament where it just doesn't add up. But they let

823
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 2: that win stand. But for twenty twelve he got booted.

824
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, they should have made that kid pay that money

825
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:51,840
Speaker 3: back with interest.

826
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, they should have.

827
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 3: What else there there was a they had their own

828
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:58,760
Speaker 3: little met too incident at one point too, didn't they.

829
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's I don't want to say well regarded a

830
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 2: well known player named Sam Kantamathi. And he is not

831
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:10,240
Speaker 2: just a player. He also has a side business of

832
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 2: like custom equipment like kile holders boards. Timers is another

833
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:19,279
Speaker 2: one because in tournaments they used timers like chess. So

834
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:22,799
Speaker 2: he's got his whole line. He's like really integral to

835
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 2: the current like scrabble World, tournament world. And for a

836
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:32,920
Speaker 2: long time, especially before Me Too came along, he just

837
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,839
Speaker 2: got away with it, Like the Players Association president would

838
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 2: make a point of escorting women who went up to

839
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:43,959
Speaker 2: Kennamthe's hotel room to pick up equipment that they bought

840
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,800
Speaker 2: from or were buying from him, like you just didn't

841
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 2: go alone, like it was an open secret. And then finally,

842
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 2: like he just groped the wrong woman, Me Too came

843
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 2: along and I think at least fifteen named women came

844
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:01,439
Speaker 2: forward and put their story already on the record about him,

845
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:07,840
Speaker 2: and the response from the Players Association was essentially like Okay,

846
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 2: don't do it again. Yeah, and he had already been

847
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,800
Speaker 2: banned for cheating. He palmed tiles too, he was a

848
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 2: national champion. He palmed tiles too. He got suspended for

849
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 2: four years for cheating, but for the allegations of sexual misconduct. Nothing,

850
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 2: just a warning essentially, So that really ticked off a

851
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 2: lot of people, especially high level women players too, who

852
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 2: were like, you know what, we have, we hold our

853
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 2: own tournaments, and he's not invited any longer. So he's

854
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 2: kind of been ostracized. But I have the impression that

855
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 2: he's still very much.

856
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 3: Around, still making those those custom racks.

857
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, from what I can tell.

858
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 3: By the way we live update. We did text John

859
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 3: Hodgman just to find out. I was kind of curious

860
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:54,960
Speaker 3: about a couple of things, and about his highest scrabble

861
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:57,320
Speaker 3: total ever and if he and Catherine have a running

862
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 3: record between them, and he says, we have old notebooks

863
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 3: full of score sheets, but we never go back and

864
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 3: look at them, because I said, you know, John Hodgmen

865
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 3: only looks forward. Time does not go backward.

866
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 2: No, Nostalgia's a toxic impulse. According that's right, Hogman.

867
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 3: We were both consistently in the three hundred to three

868
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:17,399
Speaker 3: point fifty pretty good mode. Okay, that's that sounds high

869
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 3: to me. Yeah, same here, he said, this's good enough

870
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:21,840
Speaker 3: to make me happy. He said we have both probably

871
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 3: broken four hundred a couple of times. I remember words

872
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 3: better than scores. Twenty five years ago, I added st

873
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 3: er to joke to make jokester on a triple word

874
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 3: square while playing with some of my with some friends

875
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 3: of my parents, And I don't remember the points, but

876
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 3: I was really proud of myself.

877
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:41,360
Speaker 2: I'll bet, I'll bet. Every once in a while you

878
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 2: can peek in on Hodgmen sleeping and he's got a

879
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:45,840
Speaker 2: big smile on his face because he's dreaming about that.

880
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 3: I love it.

881
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:49,840
Speaker 2: I haven't a live update as well. Chod is not

882
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 2: in the Scrabble really allowable word.

883
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 3: Oh man, this opens up a whole new world of

884
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:57,959
Speaker 3: possibilities for the show live updates.

885
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:00,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Scrabble being the arbor of what words we

886
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:04,759
Speaker 2: can and can't use now exactly. So Scrabble, of course,

887
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 2: is popped up in pop culture here or there. Rosemary's

888
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 2: Baby very famously used Mia Pharoh used well, Rosemary uses

889
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:15,880
Speaker 2: scrabble a bunch of scrabble tiles to try to figure

890
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:19,880
Speaker 2: out that some suspected witches were actually witches by using

891
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 2: the tiles to figure out anagrams. Yeah, same with sneakers.

892
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 2: I couldn't find that that I saw the movie. I

893
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:30,319
Speaker 2: never saw the movie, and I couldn't find the clip

894
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 2: with the scrabble. I just saw mention of it in

895
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 2: a couple of places.

896
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 3: I don't remember scrabble. It was a long time ago.

897
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:39,160
Speaker 3: I love this one. Frank, Oh, Frank, the chairman of

898
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 3: the board, mister Sinatra in his version of the Twelve

899
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 3: Days so Christmas added nine games of scrabble. Yeah, that's right,

900
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:49,719
Speaker 3: which is actually Joe Piscopo doing Frank.

901
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 2: Which that's all you need to do. That's better than Frank,

902
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:56,879
Speaker 2: I think. And then Seinfeld and Calvin Hobbs both kind

903
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 2: of famously had scrabble made up high value scrabble words

904
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:05,719
Speaker 2: in their shows. In the first season of Seinfeld, I.

905
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 3: Don't remember who was it, do you know?

906
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 2: Seinfeld's mom played quone quo n e and like, Seinfeld

907
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 2: calls her out on it and it's not actually a word,

908
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 2: but Kramer's like, yeah, quone whatever. But the biggest thing

909
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:24,319
Speaker 2: that stood out to me in this scene that I

910
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 2: watched it today, they had the original dad just did

911
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 2: not work.

912
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, And then they brought in I can't remember his name,

913
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:34,240
Speaker 3: but he was the dad and Arthur.

914
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:35,759
Speaker 2: Oh was he the dad in Arthur?

915
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 3: He was e Liza Minelli's father and Arthur Okay.

916
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 2: Yeah he was. He was Morty Seinfeld.

917
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, totally.

918
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 2: His first name is Barney. I think god I.

919
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 3: Used to know his name because Arthur's you know, one

920
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:48,800
Speaker 3: of my top ever comedies.

921
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 2: And then Calvin and Hobbes. I think Calvin played z

922
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:58,400
Speaker 2: q M or zeq FMGB and said it was a

923
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 2: type of worms from New Guinea.

924
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:01,800
Speaker 3: That's funny.

925
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 2: And then lastly, Chuck, we can't forget scrabble led to

926
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:10,799
Speaker 2: trivial pursuit being created, because remember they went and got

927
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:12,800
Speaker 2: a new scrabble board, and we're like, how many scrabble

928
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:14,600
Speaker 2: boards have we bought over the years? We should make

929
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:18,799
Speaker 2: an end game. That's right, And that's it. Scrabble has

930
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:21,320
Speaker 2: not appeared in any other part of pop culture except

931
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:25,880
Speaker 2: for those things, right, that's right. You got anything else, no, sir?

932
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 2: All right, well let's scrabble everybody. Thank you for finally

933
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 2: doing it, Chuck. And since I thank Chuck for finally

934
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:35,879
Speaker 2: relenting and giving in on doing an episode I've wanted

935
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 2: to do for years and years and years, it's time

936
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 2: for a listener mail.

937
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:48,080
Speaker 3: Oh you hi, guys, or basically just the voices that

938
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:49,799
Speaker 3: live in my head permanently, because I listened to you

939
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:52,799
Speaker 3: two all the time nice a while back. I have

940
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:54,480
Speaker 3: no idea where the idea came from. I wonder whether

941
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:57,399
Speaker 3: everyone sees concepts the same way in their head as

942
00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:01,360
Speaker 3: I do. And started asking around because she's referencing like

943
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:03,920
Speaker 3: the Inner Dialogue app where people don't hear words, they

944
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 3: see images, and Daisy says this, and this is very interesting.

945
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:11,839
Speaker 3: I think I noticed that for me, the calendar months

946
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 3: of the year in my brain are arranged like this January, February, March, April, May, June, July, December, November, October,

947
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 3: August on the line below, like it's very important the

948
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:27,040
Speaker 3: way it's spaced out, I think. And it's also indented,

949
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:30,720
Speaker 3: So December, November, October August is on the line below

950
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:36,319
Speaker 3: and dented and dented to about mid February, so going

951
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:38,920
Speaker 3: from left to right and then making a curve to

952
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 3: continue from right to left. No need to point out

953
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:43,759
Speaker 3: how weird this is, guys, because no calendar ever was

954
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:47,280
Speaker 3: drawn this way. However, this is how it is normal

955
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:49,279
Speaker 3: for me in my head. You can imagine the weird

956
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 3: faces I got when asking this question enthusiastically to find

957
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:55,879
Speaker 3: out about other people's head calendars, especially when I told

958
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:58,960
Speaker 3: them about mine. Anyway, all this to ask, when you

959
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 3: picture a yearly calendar in your head, what does it

960
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:05,719
Speaker 3: look like? Immediately when I read that, the only thing

961
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:09,240
Speaker 3: that popped into my head was a like the back

962
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:12,160
Speaker 3: of a of a like a wall calendar you would

963
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:14,080
Speaker 3: get as a teenager, where I had all all of

964
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 3: them listed. That's what I picture.

965
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 2: Oh nice, So what are the what are the monthly

966
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:20,879
Speaker 2: centerfolds over?

967
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:23,560
Speaker 3: Well, I don't know, but I guess it would just

968
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:26,800
Speaker 3: be four four and four. Okay, that's how I pictured

969
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 3: it in my head January, February, March, April, and then

970
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 3: four more than four more in order.

971
00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 2: Because I'm not weird, I don't know. I'm trying to

972
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 2: come up with it now, and I don't really think

973
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:38,399
Speaker 2: I keep a calendar in my head. I'm just too

974
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:41,480
Speaker 2: like in the present, you know, like in the now. Yeah, baby,

975
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:44,600
Speaker 2: sorry to let you down. Who is that? Uh?

976
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:49,840
Speaker 3: That is Daisy and Daisy is from Belgium. Thanks Daisy,

977
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:51,160
Speaker 3: that's the problem.

978
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:55,280
Speaker 2: That's from Belgia. There's your problem. Thanks a lot, Daisy,

979
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 2: that was wonderful. I feel like also that somebody can

980
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:02,880
Speaker 2: make a T shirt of like the visual representation of

981
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 2: the calendar in Daisy's head, and it would be the

982
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:08,439
Speaker 2: most arcane, deep cut stuff you Should Know te shirt

983
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:09,080
Speaker 2: of all time.

984
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:09,800
Speaker 3: Totally.

985
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, if you want to get in touch with

986
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 2: this like Daisy did and share your mental whatever, we

987
00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 2: would love that. You can send us an email to

988
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:23,120
Speaker 2: stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.

989
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 3: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

990
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:31,000
Speaker 3: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

991
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:32,960
Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,