Speaker 1: Also media.
Speaker 2: Hi everyone, and welcome to the show. It's just James
Speaker 2: today and I'm joined by doctor Sink. Doctor Sink's an
Speaker 2: educator based in California, and we're talking today about the
Speaker 2: recent attempted assassination of a Sikh activist and this now
Speaker 2: years long tendency of India to attempt to assassinate sick
Speaker 2: activists in the United States and in Canada and probably
Speaker 2: not the places too. Welcome to the show, dot to Sink.
Speaker 3: All right, thank you, thank you for having me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're welcome. And so I think people listening to
Speaker 2: this for the first time might not be super familiar
Speaker 2: with the situation in India and also like what Kalistan
Speaker 2: is and what that means. So I want to get
Speaker 2: into both of those things to start with. I think
Speaker 2: could you maybe explain Kalastan, Explain where it means. Maybe
Speaker 2: people have seen this yellow and green flag or heard
Speaker 2: the word, but they might not know what it means.
Speaker 2: So could you break that down for us?
Speaker 3: Sure? Sure.
Speaker 4: So Krlaistan is essentially freedom of liberation moment that starts
Speaker 4: in Punjab. So it's north of India, and Punjab is
Speaker 4: a region that is populated primarily of six, though the
Speaker 4: population numbers are changing, and so Kalistan is essentially sovereignty freedom,
Speaker 4: it's its own homeland, so it's labeled as the sick homeland.
Speaker 3: However, there will be many.
Speaker 4: Different ethnicities, many different people of religious backgrounds in Kadalaistan,
Speaker 4: so it is.
Speaker 3: An ongoing movement.
Speaker 4: The Indian state of course, it's not in their best
Speaker 4: interest to lose a chunk of land, and to lose
Speaker 4: especially a prosperous chunk of land, so they're doing everything
Speaker 4: in their power to silence those that speak about it,
Speaker 4: to oppress the people there so that they don't have
Speaker 4: enough willpower to fight back. So that's a very very
Speaker 4: brief introduction to it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so let's zoom out a little bit and talk
Speaker 2: about the history of sick people in India and then
Speaker 2: the recent tendency with mody to to sort of define
Speaker 2: Hinduism and Indianism as the same thing. And you can't
Speaker 2: be one without being the other. So maybe we can
Speaker 2: start with that history of sick people within India. We
Speaker 2: can pick it up like I guess wherever you want.
Speaker 2: You can start in nineteen thirties, or we can start
Speaker 2: a little bit later.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Well, actually, I think it's important to start even earlier
Speaker 4: than that. The origins of Six are in the region.
Speaker 4: Our faith was started in fourteen sixty nine activity, which
Speaker 4: is in now the Pakistan region, So that's where our
Speaker 4: faith was started, and our people have essentially been fighting
Speaker 4: an existential battle since the faith was formed. So different
Speaker 4: rulers of the time, different kingdoms in that area would
Speaker 4: attempt to kind of wipe Six out, and Six have
Speaker 4: always been fighting back and fighting for their existence. So
Speaker 4: a small example of this is in seventeen thirty eight
Speaker 4: and up until the seventeen seventies, there was mass laughter
Speaker 4: of six and we're talking thousands killed on a single
Speaker 4: day period we referred as.
Speaker 3: The Vudine shot dot Lugata, which is.
Speaker 4: Basically in our history, the largest population of six decimated
Speaker 4: in a single day was in seventeen thirty eight.
Speaker 3: In seventeen seventies.
Speaker 4: As well, so we went from that circumstance to essentially
Speaker 4: forming our own kingdom, forming our own country. In seventeen
Speaker 4: ninety nine was formally established under Maha Dad Djid Singh,
Speaker 4: though the Six were operating independently even before that and
Speaker 4: kind of.
Speaker 3: Governing their own regions.
Speaker 4: But in seventeen ninety nine, the Sick Confederacy kind of
Speaker 4: joined and became what is now known as the region
Speaker 4: of Punjab.
Speaker 3: So the British came to colonize.
Speaker 4: They colonized India relatively quickly after arriving, and then when
Speaker 4: they approached the Sikh Kingdom, not only could they not
Speaker 4: penetrate it, they had to sign a treaty with Mahaja
Speaker 4: d Jid Singh, who was the ruler of Punjab at
Speaker 4: the time, and saying that we won't cross to the
Speaker 4: side of this river and you don't cross to the
Speaker 4: sub So they essentially signed a treaty saying we can coexist,
Speaker 4: but we won't come to your side because they feared
Speaker 4: the repercussions of what that would lead to. And then slowly,
Speaker 4: as they have with many empires, they have kind of infiltrated.
Speaker 4: They paid folks, they sign traders, and they broke down
Speaker 4: the annexed Punjab in eighteen forty nine. So we have
Speaker 4: a period of colonization from eighteen forty nine officially till
Speaker 4: nineteen forty seven. And in nineteen forty seven the Radcliffe
Speaker 4: Line is drawn. That is where Pakistan and now what
Speaker 4: we see as Pakistan and now India is what we
Speaker 4: see as India, though before it was all together and
Speaker 4: a large region of it was Punjab. When nineteen forty
Speaker 4: seven what Indian would refer to as independence, though it
Speaker 4: was actually a transfer of power.
Speaker 3: The gandhis of the time are kind of credited with.
Speaker 4: The independence movement, but they were working with the British
Speaker 4: for decades before that. They kind of knew that they
Speaker 4: would receive the reins once the British left the region,
Speaker 4: so truly it wasn't independence movement, it was a transfer
Speaker 4: of power from the British to them. So in nineteen
Speaker 4: forty seven, by creating kind of relationships through some false promises,
Speaker 4: the Hindu leaders of the time essentially guaranteed six that
Speaker 4: you guys know how to fight for your rights if
Speaker 4: we were ever to infringe upon them. You guys are
Speaker 4: allowed to be in the Punjab region, it's essentially going
Speaker 4: to be autonomous.
Speaker 3: So after independence, essentially.
Speaker 4: They immediately renagged on all of their previous assurances and
Speaker 4: six have essentially kind of been fighting an independence movement
Speaker 4: since nineteen forty seven. They were not allowed to speak
Speaker 4: their language. There was a Punjabi suba movement in nineteen
Speaker 4: fifty five where they even had to fight for their
Speaker 4: native language to be able to speak their native language
Speaker 4: in their region. And so now moving many iterations later,
Speaker 4: what we see is Modi kind of the I wouldn't
Speaker 4: say final form because we haven't lived to the end yet,
Speaker 4: but he is the latest iteration of Hindu nationalism, of
Speaker 4: what extremism looks like. So he has now taken the
Speaker 4: work of the gandhis and all of the prime ministers
Speaker 4: of India and kind of the Indian deep state agenda
Speaker 4: and now transformed it to saying that we want to
Speaker 4: be a nation of one language, of one religion, of
Speaker 4: one kind of people, and there's really no space for
Speaker 4: minorities in there, though they won't say it openly because
Speaker 4: they want to carry the moniker of the world's biggest democracy.
Speaker 4: They are not a secular nation. And under Modi, we've
Speaker 4: seen massacres. We've seen you very genocidal violence, which he
Speaker 4: himself allowed and which he was not even allowed to
Speaker 4: go into many Western countries because they held him accountable
Speaker 4: and responsible for leading the massacre of Muslims in two
Speaker 4: thousand and two of a job. But once he became
Speaker 4: prime minister, they kind of backed away from that and
Speaker 4: chose financial relationships. So today we are in a place
Speaker 4: where six being less than two percent of the population
Speaker 4: in India are continuing their struggle for liberation, and the
Speaker 4: Indian state kind of consistent with their agenda since nineteen
Speaker 4: forty seven, doesn't have room for that difference, doesn't have
Speaker 4: room not only to give them their rights, but liberation entirely.
Speaker 4: That's the next step beyond that. So that's where we
Speaker 4: are today.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a significant sick community, especially on the west
Speaker 2: coast of the USA, and I've met probably hundreds of
Speaker 2: sick people in the last year crossing the border for
Speaker 2: the reasons you've just outlined and others of course deciding
Speaker 2: they nearly all coming from India, right, and Punjab, and
Speaker 2: they have told me some really terrible stories, right, some
Speaker 2: really upsetting things. I've heard from lots of other people.
Speaker 2: It's not unique to them, but there's a significant sick
Speaker 2: population on the west coast of the US. So can
Speaker 2: you explain I know that sick people here have been
Speaker 2: organizing for Kalustan for some time. There was even like
Speaker 2: a vote recently ventstand correctly, So can you explain, like
Speaker 2: that history of the sick dy aspirin how they've been
Speaker 2: really important in getting the word out and advocating.
Speaker 4: First, yeah, I'm glad we touched on migration. Actually, mass
Speaker 4: migration out of Punjab is not a natural phenomenon. It
Speaker 4: is the outcome of very genocidal violence yea. And further
Speaker 4: than that, it's the continued violence and oppression through different ways.
Speaker 4: So one example is there's a strong drug nexus in
Speaker 4: that area and anyone who is distributing drugs is protected
Speaker 4: by the Indian state, whether through bribery, whether through their
Speaker 4: agenda in general of keeping Punjab kind of addicted and
Speaker 4: away from liberation, So that is one.
Speaker 3: Aspect of it.
Speaker 4: Further, Bungjob for the listeners, Bunge ob means the land
Speaker 4: of five rivers. Bunge means five and ob means water,
Speaker 4: so its name is literally created on river water and
Speaker 4: the Indian state has now taken those river waters diverted
Speaker 4: them to different states of India, and Punjab gets no
Speaker 4: royalty for those as opposed to any other state of India.
Speaker 4: If they have a natural resource, they get to sell
Speaker 4: it and their state gets the benefit of that. So
Speaker 4: Punjab at this point has been giving trillions of gallons
Speaker 4: of water to different states for free, and Punjab is
Speaker 4: there's different numbers out there, but sixty to sixty five
Speaker 4: percent and agrarian society, so everyone is essentially farming. And
Speaker 4: what the farmers of Punjab are being forced to do
Speaker 4: is dig underground for water, even though they have natural
Speaker 4: river water that should be going through Punjab itself, which
Speaker 4: they can redistribute. So there's a huge farmer suicide problem
Speaker 4: happening in Punjab because they are unable to get out
Speaker 4: of debt. They are viewing farming as an unprofitable kind
Speaker 4: of a debt and business as opposed to farming and
Speaker 4: many other places, so it's very profitable. They're sick farmers
Speaker 4: in California who are multi multimillionaires, so it's not an
Speaker 4: unprofitable business.
Speaker 3: However, the state has made it that way.
Speaker 4: Understanding that if we can cripple farming their water supply
Speaker 4: and get their next generation addicted to drugs, then they'll
Speaker 4: be forced.
Speaker 3: So the mass migration we see is not natural. It
Speaker 3: is the outcome of that.
Speaker 4: And I'm sorry, I think I forgot the second part
Speaker 4: of your question, something about six in the Western.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that's Okay, there's a really good explanation. It's
Speaker 2: really important. I think we should just take a little
Speaker 2: advertising break here, all right, we're back.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So the second part I wanted to ask about was
Speaker 2: the importance of this diaspora community in organizing FA Kalistan.
Speaker 2: Right because in addition to all these Indian government policies
Speaker 2: that you've outlined that are having these impacts in Punjab,
Speaker 2: and like we shouldn't discount the climate change is also
Speaker 2: having impacts there right, absolutely across the whole engeged subcontinent.
Speaker 2: But in addition to that, right, there's a very powerful
Speaker 2: and developed Khalistan movement in the United States and in
Speaker 2: Canada that has been advocating for the issue and raising
Speaker 2: i think awareness, and that's what's been targeted now, right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, because they understand that if you say that
Speaker 4: word Carlostan with in Punjab, the police is working with them,
Speaker 4: the judicial system is working with them, Every single facet
Speaker 4: of any organizational institution is working for them. So, I
Speaker 4: mean there's been many people that do mention it and
Speaker 4: they end up dead, they end up in jails, They
Speaker 4: you know, are silenced in one way or another. So
Speaker 4: despite that, though, still many more folks that believe in
Speaker 4: Colistan in Punjab than there are anywhere else in the world,
Speaker 4: and they are willing to say it openly despite the
Speaker 4: consequence of that, which is essentially jail or death.
Speaker 3: In the millions. So what happens is when six are
Speaker 3: a forced to migrate out or migrate out for any reason.
Speaker 4: They still hold those aspirations with them. They still remember
Speaker 4: the plight of their people in Pajab. So they have
Speaker 4: freedom of speech, which is what you should have in democracies,
Speaker 4: which they don't have in India. So when they have
Speaker 4: freedom of speech, they express those aspirations to the point where.
Speaker 3: There are people being killed all over the world.
Speaker 4: We named Canada and the US, but there was an
Speaker 4: activist poisoned in the UK just last year. There's been
Speaker 4: folks killed in Pakistan, which is on the other side
Speaker 4: of the border for India. And they tried to assassinate
Speaker 4: sick in New York and as recently as a few
Speaker 4: days ago, they tried to assassinate us.
Speaker 3: Sick here in California.
Speaker 4: So, I mean, the movement is very much alive and
Speaker 4: it's on the up, and I think the Indian state
Speaker 4: understands this. But they're having a tough time kind of
Speaker 4: wrapping their head around how to.
Speaker 3: Silence folks outside of their borders.
Speaker 4: That's really where we are because within their borders it's
Speaker 4: full on suppression.
Speaker 3: You can't say it. Folks within Pujab.
Speaker 4: When they leave Punjab and they come to different countries,
Speaker 4: their eyes kind of finally open as to why they
Speaker 4: were in the conditions they were in. It's almost like
Speaker 4: when you're in the middle of a storm. You don't
Speaker 4: know who you're in a storm, but when looking on
Speaker 4: the outside in you're seeing, hey, this is a very
Speaker 4: intentional and systematic genocide that is happening against our people.
Speaker 3: So that is one aspect of it.
Speaker 4: But it's becoming more organized, and you know, there's a referendum,
Speaker 4: there's intellectuals, there's conferences happening, there's grats roots organization and
Speaker 4: so ficks have the concept.
Speaker 3: Called Chardvikala and Chaddikaala.
Speaker 4: Is essentially ever rising spirits, is that no matter that
Speaker 4: higher conditions that you may be under, you still keep
Speaker 4: the hope for sovereignty and liberation alive. And we've seen
Speaker 4: that in our history where our population due to the
Speaker 4: oppression and the massacres dwindled down to the hundreds, and
Speaker 4: they were living in jungles, and even then they would
Speaker 4: exit the jungles fight work to free those being captured
Speaker 4: by the muguls at the time, or the people in
Speaker 4: the region, and they would die fighting oftentimes. And so
Speaker 4: now we're in a position where there's millions of us.
Speaker 4: We have no excuse. We keep the aspiration for sovereignty alive,
Speaker 4: and we see it kind of thriving in places where
Speaker 4: we're allowed to express ourselves.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think we should talk about this kind
Speaker 2: of transnational repression. It's not by any means unique Twindia.
Speaker 2: I mean, famously Russia loves to do this too, right,
Speaker 2: But let's talk about some of these incidents. There was
Speaker 2: a foiled assassination attempt in November of last year, right
Speaker 2: that the YAH arrested in India national for There was
Speaker 2: a successful assassination in Canada, and an attempted assassination just
Speaker 2: this week, as you say, in northern California.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, transnational repression is not a new phenomenon.
Speaker 4: But what we'd like to do is actually have it
Speaker 4: addressed for what it is. Why is it that the
Speaker 4: American public understands or the Western public understands that Russia doesn't,
Speaker 4: but when it comes to India, it's almost seen as
Speaker 4: this kind of yoga chai te, peace loving place, where
Speaker 4: in reality, anyone from there and anyone that's been on
Speaker 4: the other end of kind of oppression understands what India
Speaker 4: truly is. So I think what we'd like to do
Speaker 4: is I don't think it's unreasonable. This is a nation
Speaker 4: that is very openly going on to other sovereign nations
Speaker 4: land and targeting their citizens of any religious Backrondah. So
Speaker 4: I think it's something that these governments should be taking seriously.
Speaker 4: And the fact that it continues to happen, I think
Speaker 4: is a reflection of how not seriously it's being taken.
Speaker 3: If it was, you know, if there's you know, some
Speaker 3: sort of public.
Speaker 4: Statements, sanctions, if there was you know, a full on
Speaker 4: effort to say that this is a violation of our sovereignty, yeah,
Speaker 4: it would perhaps slow down, but it's continuing, and it's
Speaker 4: continuing rapidly where we're seeing gunshots and you know, even
Speaker 4: though Indian nationals are being extra added to the states,
Speaker 4: it's not stopping. So I think more aggressive action is needed.
Speaker 4: And the fact that it keeps happening. Is is just
Speaker 4: a reflection of how lacks these governments have been as
Speaker 4: a result of these actions.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't see it referred to in the terms
Speaker 2: of transnational oppression or really like by the US government
Speaker 2: at least as this this consolidated program. It seems to
Speaker 2: be seen as like these incidents where then you know,
Speaker 2: joining the dots and being like, get this, this is
Speaker 2: an attempt at repression, you know, murder of US citizens
Speaker 2: in me that these two cases, right, I know this
Speaker 2: just happened with other diaspora communities. Sometimes the like DJ
Speaker 2: or someone within that has reached out to people in
Speaker 2: the community, especially people who are prominent and been like,
Speaker 2: there is a legitimate risk of someone trying to kill you.
Speaker 2: Has that happened within the sick community?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 4: There's been multiple folks warned here in California, in Canada,
Speaker 4: all over the US that you know.
Speaker 3: There is legitimate threats to your life.
Speaker 4: Though it's a problem because they cannot give you any
Speaker 4: more information than that. So you ask, you know, where's
Speaker 4: the threat from. Let say, we can disclose that it's
Speaker 4: it's confidential. So obviously six who advocate for sovereignty and
Speaker 4: freedom of their people that can Punjab know where where
Speaker 4: the threat is from. Yeah, And I think the underlying
Speaker 4: understanding within the community is that Western countries understand it
Speaker 4: as well. They're essentially waiting for when it is politically
Speaker 4: you know, acceptable, when it is politically beneficial for them
Speaker 4: to actually say something about it. And I think we
Speaker 4: are an under no illusions that you know that these
Speaker 4: guys are going to speak for us for the sake
Speaker 4: of justice, that they're going to you know, express our
Speaker 4: perspective and condemn these nations based on the protection of six.
Speaker 4: We know our liberation is going to be the result
Speaker 4: of our efforts. But I think from a lobbying perspective,
Speaker 4: from an expression perspective, I think it is not unreasonable
Speaker 4: of us to.
Speaker 3: Expect that of governments where we are citizens. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Like it's kind of the trade that you make r
Speaker 2: in theory, Like you give up a lot of freedom
Speaker 2: and in turn you get safety in and you're giving
Speaker 2: up one and not getting the other right now, right
Speaker 2: right exactly. So, Like there have been various movements for Kaliftan,
Speaker 2: I think we should just mention that, like in the
Speaker 2: nineteen eighties, more like confrontational attempts at Kalistan like independence
Speaker 2: were met with collective punishment by the Indian state and
Speaker 2: non Sik people right within India.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So going dating back to the eighties, actually up until
Speaker 4: eighty four, there was no united Movement for independence something
Speaker 4: else he called up Prinda on It was kind of
Speaker 4: the face of the thick rights movement. But in the
Speaker 4: document that they had proposed to the government, the an
Speaker 4: unput CYB resolution, it wasn't a proposition for exclusively six
Speaker 4: And I think that's an important point to continue to mention,
Speaker 4: is that the way the Indian state portrays Kalistan is
Speaker 4: anti Hindu, and I think they understand that to get
Speaker 4: the public support, we need to portray movements or anything
Speaker 4: really that's not in our interest as anti Hindu. We
Speaker 4: need to make them feel threatened. Yeah, and if we
Speaker 4: can do that, there will be support for us to
Speaker 4: engage in these collective punishments.
Speaker 3: So in the eighties and nineties, actually we call.
Speaker 4: It the Decade of Disappearances, is where the Indian government
Speaker 4: went from village to village disappearing six hundreds of thousands.
Speaker 3: Essentially, our last generation was wiped out by the Indian state.
Speaker 3: And you know, they disposed of.
Speaker 4: Their bodies and crematories throw them in rivers, and you know,
Speaker 4: like we basically say that there's a sixth river of
Speaker 4: blood in Bujab because that is just how many young
Speaker 4: men were killed from eighty five to.
Speaker 3: Nineteen ninety five. So there was an armed resistance against this.
Speaker 4: I mean they were seeing their sisters taken into police
Speaker 4: stations and all kinds of atrocities committed against them. They
Speaker 4: were seeing their brothers disappeared, you know, their family members.
Speaker 4: So at some point it is better to give up
Speaker 4: your life than to live in these circumstances. And so
Speaker 4: that is the brink that they were pushed to, and
Speaker 4: so we lean on their example, though the movement does
Speaker 4: not quite exactly at that same place today, we lean
Speaker 4: on their example in that saying, these people were.
Speaker 3: Willing to give up their lives for this.
Speaker 4: Cause, and us sitting in comfort, even if it's you know,
Speaker 4: temporary safety, we have a responsibility to move this movement forward.
Speaker 4: And with these new assassinations, that's another important thing to mention.
Speaker 4: We've saw murders of essentially the biggest Pujabi pops, Sadhu
Speaker 4: Musah in history. I mean, this guy was in Hollywood,
Speaker 4: he was, he was everywhere, and when he started talking
Speaker 4: about Kadistan, when he started making music regarding Pajab's rights,
Speaker 4: he was assassinated. And we're seeing a new wave of
Speaker 4: Indian oppression. And for the first time now people that thought,
Speaker 4: oh the eighties and nineties, you know, you guys could
Speaker 4: be making something up. Maybe the Indian government is right,
Speaker 4: you guys can be making up. Now they're seeing these
Speaker 4: assassinations happen in front of their eyes, and they're making
Speaker 4: the judgment call as to who is in the right
Speaker 4: and who is in And I think that's another reason
Speaker 4: that the Kalistan movement continues to gain kind of solidarity
Speaker 4: within the six all over the world.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Sure, Like if if a government is trying to
Speaker 2: assassinate people to just essentially saying something it disagrees with it,
Speaker 2: it's not hard to see like who's in the wrong exactly.
Speaker 2: So I wonder, like, obviously there's a genuine threat to
Speaker 2: Sik communities here that continues to be a threat to
Speaker 2: seek migrants from both political parties in the United States, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm interested, but not hopeful to see how their asylum
Speaker 2: claims go based on this very obvious discrimination that you've outlined,
Speaker 2: and there's this threat to seek people in their homeland
Speaker 2: in point job, how can people who are not sick,
Speaker 2: who are not part of the community like be in solidary,
Speaker 2: how can they support What can they do to, like
Speaker 2: I guess yet, to stop people being murdered?
Speaker 4: Well, it sounds cliche to say awareness, but at this
Speaker 4: point in time, they're just enough people aware of you know,
Speaker 4: how in danger they are, because if they don't speak
Speaker 4: for six today, tomorrow it could be them. And if
Speaker 4: the Western governments are allowing foreign nations to come in
Speaker 4: and they have embassies in these countries, and they're allowing
Speaker 4: these nations to kind of, you know, assassinate their citizens,
Speaker 4: then what's to say that they won't be next tomorrow.
Speaker 4: It's the age old saying there was no one left
Speaker 4: to speak for me. That's part of it is you
Speaker 4: have to understand the ramifications of ignoring something like this.
Speaker 4: So I guess the first thing we'd like to see
Speaker 4: is solidarity with that Aalestine. Now most folks have an
Speaker 4: opinion on it, or at least they've heard the word
Speaker 4: and they've seen six everywhere you know where the folks
Speaker 4: that walk around with urbans, and we're one of the
Speaker 4: probably ninety nine percent of people you see with turbans
Speaker 4: on our six and so we're.
Speaker 3: A very visible community.
Speaker 4: However, the reasons we're here, our plight, understanding of our
Speaker 4: background is generally lacking. So I think the more that
Speaker 4: we can understand who six are, what their beliefs are,
Speaker 4: what they're fighting.
Speaker 3: For, why they're here to begin with, I think, you know, there.
Speaker 4: Will be more political pressure regarding that, and I'm seeing
Speaker 4: it starting to shift slightly, especially in the past five
Speaker 4: to ten years. We've tipped the skills just slightly, but
Speaker 4: we're far from from anywhere substantial.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think for like, at least for my group
Speaker 2: of friends, right, we go down to the border and
Speaker 2: help people, and like we've encountered sick people because they
Speaker 2: were always there with us helping us, right, Like some
Speaker 2: sick folks flew down from other places and joined us
Speaker 2: and stayed out there and helped us feed people. And like,
Speaker 2: sick folks have shown up for other people substantially all
Speaker 2: over the world. And I think it would be really
Speaker 2: good to see people kind of reflect that that solidarity
Speaker 2: that's kind of baked into the sick religion that it
Speaker 2: would be nice to see people doing that in return,
Speaker 2: absolutely as seeks organized to their own community safety. Like
Speaker 2: obviously there's like a pressing danger to people, especially people
Speaker 2: who are vocal a Sikhs organized to like take care
Speaker 2: of one another in that sense.
Speaker 3: To some extent.
Speaker 4: Yes, And again a part of organization and having support
Speaker 4: that comes from that organization is having political power. And
Speaker 4: six have political power in certain instances, but they do
Speaker 4: not have a homeland or the resources to kind of
Speaker 4: back it up. And you know, politics kind of lobbying
Speaker 4: works with money. So the fact that we have these
Speaker 4: immigration problems a is a result of India's efforts, but
Speaker 4: be the reason that they don't have the support.
Speaker 3: They need is because don't have a homeland where they can.
Speaker 4: Say, all right, these are our beliefs, these are our people.
Speaker 4: We support our people, we will give them these resources
Speaker 4: that they need. So we're kind of always operating at
Speaker 4: a grassroots level. Yeah, and that's part of the issue
Speaker 4: is why there's not grand or large scale change.
Speaker 3: But it continues to march forward.
Speaker 4: You know, as generations grow up, as they become more
Speaker 4: involved in different facets.
Speaker 3: A lot of people, especially in the United states.
Speaker 4: Are first generation. So our parents' generation was just focused
Speaker 4: on surviving. How are we going to put food on
Speaker 4: the table? Are were going to put a roof over
Speaker 4: your head? And so the next generation kind of has
Speaker 4: the opportunity to explore how.
Speaker 3: They can make a difference for their people. So Canada
Speaker 3: is getting there, the UK is getting there, the US.
Speaker 4: Is behind just because our migration here was later than
Speaker 4: those places to that level.
Speaker 3: But it's getting there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's good. So people want to find out more
Speaker 2: about like the sick religion or like sick people. That
Speaker 2: good resources that you could suggest.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, I think there's a very thorough background of what
Speaker 4: Calliston is just on callist on dot org. Okay, so
Speaker 4: kJ l I s t an dot org. They have publications,
Speaker 4: they have documentaries. They've done a significant amount of work
Speaker 4: to give the background of a Y six will never
Speaker 4: stop fighting for freedom and be kind of.
Speaker 3: What the circumstances are today.
Speaker 4: So they've they've done a fairly good job at that.
Speaker 4: Other than that, there's pages on social media. There's free
Speaker 4: five a B which stands for free puin job. It's
Speaker 4: it's on Twitter, TikTok and of course TikTok.
Speaker 3: Has deleted that page many times.
Speaker 4: So we're trying to figure out where the where the
Speaker 4: alliances are there, and Instagram of course has done their
Speaker 4: thing based on their alliances.
Speaker 3: But there are some.
Speaker 4: Resources out there, and of course if you google it,
Speaker 4: the first things that are going to come up is
Speaker 4: Times of India.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, in those.
Speaker 4: Tun Times basically saying this is a terrorist movement that's
Speaker 4: funded by foreign governments to break the unity integrity of India.
Speaker 4: It's a very rudimentary explanation, basically rooted in violence and
Speaker 4: how these people just have it out for us.
Speaker 3: But the reality is entirely different and the facts speak
Speaker 3: to that.
Speaker 4: And I think the assassination attempts of today, the folks
Speaker 4: that remain in Indian and jails today, there's a UK
Speaker 4: citizen in Indian jail.
Speaker 3: There are you know, folks that are dying in Indian prisons.
Speaker 4: There's folks that have completed their sentences six thirty plus
Speaker 4: years still sitting in Indian prisons. So all of the
Speaker 4: circumstances today kind of speak to why this movement exists
Speaker 4: and will continue to exist. So hopefully we can take
Speaker 4: advantage of some of the resources out there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's great, and I hope people will go and
Speaker 2: look educate themselves. You can look up Culsa AID as
Speaker 2: well if you're interested in like the sort of sort
Speaker 2: of diarity and support side of Sikhism. Those people have
Speaker 2: been great at the border, and I know they've done
Speaker 2: tons about the great humanitarian work as well.
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Is there anything else that you'd like people to know
Speaker 2: before we finish up here, like about six or about
Speaker 2: college down things they can do to help.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I would, especially all the viewers.
Speaker 4: I would like everyone to be open to the opportunity
Speaker 4: that there are more people in the world that are
Speaker 4: seeking to suppress and oppress than just what is told
Speaker 4: by American media today. At least be open to the opportunity.
Speaker 4: India is the world's biggest democracy today until it's not anymore,
Speaker 4: and communities like the six who have experienced violent genocide
Speaker 4: and today are experiencing the genocide. I think it's very
Speaker 4: important to understand that the sick genocide never ended. It
Speaker 4: continues today in different facets, in different forms. So that's
Speaker 4: A and B the struggle for freedom and sovereignty, though
Speaker 4: they want to put it on. So the Indian state
Speaker 4: continuously tries to kill two birds with one stone. They
Speaker 4: have enemity with Pakistan, so they try to say that
Speaker 4: Kadistan is a movement to the byproduct of kind of
Speaker 4: focused on the interference, even though the facts speak otherwise.
Speaker 4: That if it's not Fakistan that killed hundreds of thousands
Speaker 4: of six, it's not Fakistan that is assassinating six out
Speaker 4: in these foreign countries. So they try to kill two
Speaker 4: birds with one stone. India is definitely not a democracy.
Speaker 4: I would like the viewers to be open to that
Speaker 4: possibility as well and do.
Speaker 3: Your own research.
Speaker 4: Of course, I have a perspective based on the circumstances
Speaker 4: that my people have been through, and I would hope
Speaker 4: everyone can form a more thorough understanding and that there
Speaker 4: is a lot more happening, especially in that region than
Speaker 4: is politically correct to right now. So that's what I'll
Speaker 4: finish with.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's great, Thank you very much for that. I
Speaker 2: think that's a really good place to finish. Thank you
Speaker 2: so much for your time, and yeah, I really appreciate
Speaker 2: you explaining to that for us.
Speaker 3: Of course, thank you for having me jail.
Speaker 1: It could happen here as a production of Cool Zone Media.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts and the cool Zone Media. Visit our
Speaker 1: website cool zonemedia dot com, or check us out on
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Speaker 1: You can find sources for It could happen here, Updated
Speaker 1: monthly at coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.