1 00:00:01,840 --> 00:00:05,120 Speaker 1: Also media. 2 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:08,360 Speaker 2: Hi everyone, and welcome to the show. It's just James 3 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 2: today and I'm joined by doctor Sink. Doctor Sink's an 4 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 2: educator based in California, and we're talking today about the 5 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 2: recent attempted assassination of a Sikh activist and this now 6 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 2: years long tendency of India to attempt to assassinate sick 7 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:26,240 Speaker 2: activists in the United States and in Canada and probably 8 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 2: not the places too. Welcome to the show, dot to Sink. 9 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:30,159 Speaker 3: All right, thank you, thank you for having me. 10 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, you're welcome. And so I think people listening to 11 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 2: this for the first time might not be super familiar 12 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:40,840 Speaker 2: with the situation in India and also like what Kalistan 13 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:42,279 Speaker 2: is and what that means. So I want to get 14 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 2: into both of those things to start with. I think 15 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 2: could you maybe explain Kalastan, Explain where it means. Maybe 16 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 2: people have seen this yellow and green flag or heard 17 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 2: the word, but they might not know what it means. 18 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:55,639 Speaker 2: So could you break that down for us? 19 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 3: Sure? Sure. 20 00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 4: So Krlaistan is essentially freedom of liberation moment that starts 21 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 4: in Punjab. So it's north of India, and Punjab is 22 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 4: a region that is populated primarily of six, though the 23 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 4: population numbers are changing, and so Kalistan is essentially sovereignty freedom, 24 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:20,400 Speaker 4: it's its own homeland, so it's labeled as the sick homeland. 25 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 3: However, there will be many. 26 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 4: Different ethnicities, many different people of religious backgrounds in Kadalaistan, 27 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 4: so it is. 28 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 3: An ongoing movement. 29 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 4: The Indian state of course, it's not in their best 30 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:34,479 Speaker 4: interest to lose a chunk of land, and to lose 31 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,279 Speaker 4: especially a prosperous chunk of land, so they're doing everything 32 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 4: in their power to silence those that speak about it, 33 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 4: to oppress the people there so that they don't have 34 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 4: enough willpower to fight back. So that's a very very 35 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 4: brief introduction to it. 36 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, so let's zoom out a little bit and talk 37 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 2: about the history of sick people in India and then 38 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 2: the recent tendency with mody to to sort of define 39 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 2: Hinduism and Indianism as the same thing. And you can't 40 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 2: be one without being the other. So maybe we can 41 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 2: start with that history of sick people within India. We 42 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 2: can pick it up like I guess wherever you want. 43 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 2: You can start in nineteen thirties, or we can start 44 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:11,359 Speaker 2: a little bit later. 45 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 3: Yeah. 46 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:15,639 Speaker 4: Well, actually, I think it's important to start even earlier 47 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 4: than that. The origins of Six are in the region. 48 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 4: Our faith was started in fourteen sixty nine activity, which 49 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 4: is in now the Pakistan region, So that's where our 50 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:32,640 Speaker 4: faith was started, and our people have essentially been fighting 51 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 4: an existential battle since the faith was formed. So different 52 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 4: rulers of the time, different kingdoms in that area would 53 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 4: attempt to kind of wipe Six out, and Six have 54 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 4: always been fighting back and fighting for their existence. So 55 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 4: a small example of this is in seventeen thirty eight 56 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 4: and up until the seventeen seventies, there was mass laughter 57 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,639 Speaker 4: of six and we're talking thousands killed on a single 58 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 4: day period we referred as. 59 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 3: The Vudine shot dot Lugata, which is. 60 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 4: Basically in our history, the largest population of six decimated 61 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:11,360 Speaker 4: in a single day was in seventeen thirty eight. 62 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 3: In seventeen seventies. 63 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 4: As well, so we went from that circumstance to essentially 64 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 4: forming our own kingdom, forming our own country. In seventeen 65 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 4: ninety nine was formally established under Maha Dad Djid Singh, 66 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 4: though the Six were operating independently even before that and 67 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 4: kind of. 68 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 3: Governing their own regions. 69 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 4: But in seventeen ninety nine, the Sick Confederacy kind of 70 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 4: joined and became what is now known as the region 71 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 4: of Punjab. 72 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 3: So the British came to colonize. 73 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 4: They colonized India relatively quickly after arriving, and then when 74 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 4: they approached the Sikh Kingdom, not only could they not 75 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 4: penetrate it, they had to sign a treaty with Mahaja 76 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 4: d Jid Singh, who was the ruler of Punjab at 77 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 4: the time, and saying that we won't cross to the 78 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 4: side of this river and you don't cross to the 79 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 4: sub So they essentially signed a treaty saying we can coexist, 80 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 4: but we won't come to your side because they feared 81 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 4: the repercussions of what that would lead to. And then slowly, 82 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 4: as they have with many empires, they have kind of infiltrated. 83 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 4: They paid folks, they sign traders, and they broke down 84 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 4: the annexed Punjab in eighteen forty nine. So we have 85 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:27,039 Speaker 4: a period of colonization from eighteen forty nine officially till 86 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 4: nineteen forty seven. And in nineteen forty seven the Radcliffe 87 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 4: Line is drawn. That is where Pakistan and now what 88 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 4: we see as Pakistan and now India is what we 89 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 4: see as India, though before it was all together and 90 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 4: a large region of it was Punjab. When nineteen forty 91 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 4: seven what Indian would refer to as independence, though it 92 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 4: was actually a transfer of power. 93 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 3: The gandhis of the time are kind of credited with. 94 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 4: The independence movement, but they were working with the British 95 00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 4: for decades before that. They kind of knew that they 96 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 4: would receive the reins once the British left the region, 97 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:06,279 Speaker 4: so truly it wasn't independence movement, it was a transfer 98 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 4: of power from the British to them. So in nineteen 99 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 4: forty seven, by creating kind of relationships through some false promises, 100 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:17,720 Speaker 4: the Hindu leaders of the time essentially guaranteed six that 101 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 4: you guys know how to fight for your rights if 102 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 4: we were ever to infringe upon them. You guys are 103 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 4: allowed to be in the Punjab region, it's essentially going 104 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 4: to be autonomous. 105 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 3: So after independence, essentially. 106 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:34,040 Speaker 4: They immediately renagged on all of their previous assurances and 107 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 4: six have essentially kind of been fighting an independence movement 108 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:42,039 Speaker 4: since nineteen forty seven. They were not allowed to speak 109 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 4: their language. There was a Punjabi suba movement in nineteen 110 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 4: fifty five where they even had to fight for their 111 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 4: native language to be able to speak their native language 112 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 4: in their region. And so now moving many iterations later, 113 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 4: what we see is Modi kind of the I wouldn't 114 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 4: say final form because we haven't lived to the end yet, 115 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:08,280 Speaker 4: but he is the latest iteration of Hindu nationalism, of 116 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 4: what extremism looks like. So he has now taken the 117 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 4: work of the gandhis and all of the prime ministers 118 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:18,920 Speaker 4: of India and kind of the Indian deep state agenda 119 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 4: and now transformed it to saying that we want to 120 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 4: be a nation of one language, of one religion, of 121 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 4: one kind of people, and there's really no space for 122 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 4: minorities in there, though they won't say it openly because 123 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 4: they want to carry the moniker of the world's biggest democracy. 124 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 4: They are not a secular nation. And under Modi, we've 125 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 4: seen massacres. We've seen you very genocidal violence, which he 126 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 4: himself allowed and which he was not even allowed to 127 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 4: go into many Western countries because they held him accountable 128 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 4: and responsible for leading the massacre of Muslims in two 129 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 4: thousand and two of a job. But once he became 130 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 4: prime minister, they kind of backed away from that and 131 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 4: chose financial relationships. So today we are in a place 132 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 4: where six being less than two percent of the population 133 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 4: in India are continuing their struggle for liberation, and the 134 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 4: Indian state kind of consistent with their agenda since nineteen 135 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 4: forty seven, doesn't have room for that difference, doesn't have 136 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 4: room not only to give them their rights, but liberation entirely. 137 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 4: That's the next step beyond that. So that's where we 138 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 4: are today. 139 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a significant sick community, especially on the west 140 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 2: coast of the USA, and I've met probably hundreds of 141 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 2: sick people in the last year crossing the border for 142 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 2: the reasons you've just outlined and others of course deciding 143 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 2: they nearly all coming from India, right, and Punjab, and 144 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 2: they have told me some really terrible stories, right, some 145 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 2: really upsetting things. I've heard from lots of other people. 146 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 2: It's not unique to them, but there's a significant sick 147 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 2: population on the west coast of the US. So can 148 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 2: you explain I know that sick people here have been 149 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 2: organizing for Kalustan for some time. There was even like 150 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 2: a vote recently ventstand correctly, So can you explain, like 151 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 2: that history of the sick dy aspirin how they've been 152 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 2: really important in getting the word out and advocating. 153 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 4: First, yeah, I'm glad we touched on migration. Actually, mass 154 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 4: migration out of Punjab is not a natural phenomenon. It 155 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 4: is the outcome of very genocidal violence yea. And further 156 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 4: than that, it's the continued violence and oppression through different ways. 157 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:36,199 Speaker 4: So one example is there's a strong drug nexus in 158 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:40,320 Speaker 4: that area and anyone who is distributing drugs is protected 159 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 4: by the Indian state, whether through bribery, whether through their 160 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 4: agenda in general of keeping Punjab kind of addicted and 161 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 4: away from liberation, So that is one. 162 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 3: Aspect of it. 163 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:56,080 Speaker 4: Further, Bungjob for the listeners, Bunge ob means the land 164 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 4: of five rivers. Bunge means five and ob means water, 165 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:04,679 Speaker 4: so its name is literally created on river water and 166 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 4: the Indian state has now taken those river waters diverted 167 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 4: them to different states of India, and Punjab gets no 168 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:16,079 Speaker 4: royalty for those as opposed to any other state of India. 169 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 4: If they have a natural resource, they get to sell 170 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:20,599 Speaker 4: it and their state gets the benefit of that. So 171 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 4: Punjab at this point has been giving trillions of gallons 172 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 4: of water to different states for free, and Punjab is 173 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 4: there's different numbers out there, but sixty to sixty five 174 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 4: percent and agrarian society, so everyone is essentially farming. And 175 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 4: what the farmers of Punjab are being forced to do 176 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 4: is dig underground for water, even though they have natural 177 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 4: river water that should be going through Punjab itself, which 178 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 4: they can redistribute. So there's a huge farmer suicide problem 179 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 4: happening in Punjab because they are unable to get out 180 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:59,559 Speaker 4: of debt. They are viewing farming as an unprofitable kind 181 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:02,199 Speaker 4: of a debt and business as opposed to farming and 182 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 4: many other places, so it's very profitable. They're sick farmers 183 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 4: in California who are multi multimillionaires, so it's not an 184 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:10,440 Speaker 4: unprofitable business. 185 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 3: However, the state has made it that way. 186 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 4: Understanding that if we can cripple farming their water supply 187 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 4: and get their next generation addicted to drugs, then they'll 188 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 4: be forced. 189 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 3: So the mass migration we see is not natural. It 190 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 3: is the outcome of that. 191 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 4: And I'm sorry, I think I forgot the second part 192 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:32,559 Speaker 4: of your question, something about six in the Western. 193 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:34,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that's Okay, there's a really good explanation. It's 194 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 2: really important. I think we should just take a little 195 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 2: advertising break here, all right, we're back. 196 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. 197 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 2: So the second part I wanted to ask about was 198 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:55,439 Speaker 2: the importance of this diaspora community in organizing FA Kalistan. 199 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 2: Right because in addition to all these Indian government policies 200 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 2: that you've outlined that are having these impacts in Punjab, 201 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 2: and like we shouldn't discount the climate change is also 202 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:08,479 Speaker 2: having impacts there right, absolutely across the whole engeged subcontinent. 203 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:12,079 Speaker 2: But in addition to that, right, there's a very powerful 204 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 2: and developed Khalistan movement in the United States and in 205 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 2: Canada that has been advocating for the issue and raising 206 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:22,960 Speaker 2: i think awareness, and that's what's been targeted now, right. 207 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, because they understand that if you say that 208 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:31,719 Speaker 4: word Carlostan with in Punjab, the police is working with them, 209 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 4: the judicial system is working with them, Every single facet 210 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 4: of any organizational institution is working for them. So, I 211 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:42,839 Speaker 4: mean there's been many people that do mention it and 212 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,199 Speaker 4: they end up dead, they end up in jails, They 213 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 4: you know, are silenced in one way or another. So 214 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 4: despite that, though, still many more folks that believe in 215 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 4: Colistan in Punjab than there are anywhere else in the world, 216 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:59,559 Speaker 4: and they are willing to say it openly despite the 217 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 4: consequence of that, which is essentially jail or death. 218 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 3: In the millions. So what happens is when six are 219 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 3: a forced to migrate out or migrate out for any reason. 220 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 4: They still hold those aspirations with them. They still remember 221 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:19,319 Speaker 4: the plight of their people in Pajab. So they have 222 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 4: freedom of speech, which is what you should have in democracies, 223 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,559 Speaker 4: which they don't have in India. So when they have 224 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 4: freedom of speech, they express those aspirations to the point where. 225 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 3: There are people being killed all over the world. 226 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 4: We named Canada and the US, but there was an 227 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 4: activist poisoned in the UK just last year. There's been 228 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 4: folks killed in Pakistan, which is on the other side 229 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,559 Speaker 4: of the border for India. And they tried to assassinate 230 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 4: sick in New York and as recently as a few 231 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:51,839 Speaker 4: days ago, they tried to assassinate us. 232 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 3: Sick here in California. 233 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:56,439 Speaker 4: So, I mean, the movement is very much alive and 234 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 4: it's on the up, and I think the Indian state 235 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 4: understands this. But they're having a tough time kind of 236 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 4: wrapping their head around how to. 237 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:09,679 Speaker 3: Silence folks outside of their borders. 238 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,559 Speaker 4: That's really where we are because within their borders it's 239 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 4: full on suppression. 240 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 3: You can't say it. Folks within Pujab. 241 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 4: When they leave Punjab and they come to different countries, 242 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 4: their eyes kind of finally open as to why they 243 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 4: were in the conditions they were in. It's almost like 244 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:28,319 Speaker 4: when you're in the middle of a storm. You don't 245 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 4: know who you're in a storm, but when looking on 246 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 4: the outside in you're seeing, hey, this is a very 247 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 4: intentional and systematic genocide that is happening against our people. 248 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 3: So that is one aspect of it. 249 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 4: But it's becoming more organized, and you know, there's a referendum, 250 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 4: there's intellectuals, there's conferences happening, there's grats roots organization and 251 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:53,359 Speaker 4: so ficks have the concept. 252 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 3: Called Chardvikala and Chaddikaala. 253 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:59,719 Speaker 4: Is essentially ever rising spirits, is that no matter that 254 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 4: higher conditions that you may be under, you still keep 255 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 4: the hope for sovereignty and liberation alive. And we've seen 256 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 4: that in our history where our population due to the 257 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,559 Speaker 4: oppression and the massacres dwindled down to the hundreds, and 258 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:18,680 Speaker 4: they were living in jungles, and even then they would 259 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 4: exit the jungles fight work to free those being captured 260 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 4: by the muguls at the time, or the people in 261 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 4: the region, and they would die fighting oftentimes. And so 262 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 4: now we're in a position where there's millions of us. 263 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 4: We have no excuse. We keep the aspiration for sovereignty alive, 264 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 4: and we see it kind of thriving in places where 265 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 4: we're allowed to express ourselves. 266 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think we should talk about this kind 267 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 2: of transnational repression. It's not by any means unique Twindia. 268 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 2: I mean, famously Russia loves to do this too, right, 269 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 2: But let's talk about some of these incidents. There was 270 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 2: a foiled assassination attempt in November of last year, right 271 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 2: that the YAH arrested in India national for There was 272 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 2: a successful assassination in Canada, and an attempted assassination just 273 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 2: this week, as you say, in northern California. 274 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, transnational repression is not a new phenomenon. 275 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 4: But what we'd like to do is actually have it 276 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 4: addressed for what it is. Why is it that the 277 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 4: American public understands or the Western public understands that Russia doesn't, 278 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 4: but when it comes to India, it's almost seen as 279 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 4: this kind of yoga chai te, peace loving place, where 280 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 4: in reality, anyone from there and anyone that's been on 281 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 4: the other end of kind of oppression understands what India 282 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 4: truly is. So I think what we'd like to do 283 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 4: is I don't think it's unreasonable. This is a nation 284 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 4: that is very openly going on to other sovereign nations 285 00:15:55,200 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 4: land and targeting their citizens of any religious Backrondah. So 286 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 4: I think it's something that these governments should be taking seriously. 287 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 4: And the fact that it continues to happen, I think 288 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 4: is a reflection of how not seriously it's being taken. 289 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 3: If it was, you know, if there's you know, some 290 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:15,119 Speaker 3: sort of public. 291 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 4: Statements, sanctions, if there was you know, a full on 292 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 4: effort to say that this is a violation of our sovereignty, yeah, 293 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 4: it would perhaps slow down, but it's continuing, and it's 294 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 4: continuing rapidly where we're seeing gunshots and you know, even 295 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 4: though Indian nationals are being extra added to the states, 296 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 4: it's not stopping. So I think more aggressive action is needed. 297 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 4: And the fact that it keeps happening. Is is just 298 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 4: a reflection of how lacks these governments have been as 299 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 4: a result of these actions. 300 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't see it referred to in the terms 301 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 2: of transnational oppression or really like by the US government 302 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 2: at least as this this consolidated program. It seems to 303 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 2: be seen as like these incidents where then you know, 304 00:16:57,720 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 2: joining the dots and being like, get this, this is 305 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 2: an attempt at repression, you know, murder of US citizens 306 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 2: in me that these two cases, right, I know this 307 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 2: just happened with other diaspora communities. Sometimes the like DJ 308 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 2: or someone within that has reached out to people in 309 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 2: the community, especially people who are prominent and been like, 310 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 2: there is a legitimate risk of someone trying to kill you. 311 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:20,120 Speaker 2: Has that happened within the sick community? 312 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:22,359 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, absolutely. 313 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:27,640 Speaker 4: There's been multiple folks warned here in California, in Canada, 314 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:30,679 Speaker 4: all over the US that you know. 315 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 3: There is legitimate threats to your life. 316 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:36,880 Speaker 4: Though it's a problem because they cannot give you any 317 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:40,399 Speaker 4: more information than that. So you ask, you know, where's 318 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 4: the threat from. Let say, we can disclose that it's 319 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 4: it's confidential. So obviously six who advocate for sovereignty and 320 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 4: freedom of their people that can Punjab know where where 321 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 4: the threat is from. Yeah, And I think the underlying 322 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 4: understanding within the community is that Western countries understand it 323 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 4: as well. They're essentially waiting for when it is politically 324 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 4: you know, acceptable, when it is politically beneficial for them 325 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:11,399 Speaker 4: to actually say something about it. And I think we 326 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 4: are an under no illusions that you know that these 327 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:15,880 Speaker 4: guys are going to speak for us for the sake 328 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 4: of justice, that they're going to you know, express our 329 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:23,920 Speaker 4: perspective and condemn these nations based on the protection of six. 330 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 4: We know our liberation is going to be the result 331 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:31,440 Speaker 4: of our efforts. But I think from a lobbying perspective, 332 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 4: from an expression perspective, I think it is not unreasonable 333 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:37,639 Speaker 4: of us to. 334 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 3: Expect that of governments where we are citizens. Yeah. 335 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:42,920 Speaker 2: Like it's kind of the trade that you make r 336 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:44,879 Speaker 2: in theory, Like you give up a lot of freedom 337 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 2: and in turn you get safety in and you're giving 338 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:49,640 Speaker 2: up one and not getting the other right now, right 339 00:18:49,960 --> 00:19:03,439 Speaker 2: right exactly. So, Like there have been various movements for Kaliftan, 340 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 2: I think we should just mention that, like in the 341 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 2: nineteen eighties, more like confrontational attempts at Kalistan like independence 342 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 2: were met with collective punishment by the Indian state and 343 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:16,159 Speaker 2: non Sik people right within India. 344 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 3: Yeah. 345 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:20,160 Speaker 4: So going dating back to the eighties, actually up until 346 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 4: eighty four, there was no united Movement for independence something 347 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:26,440 Speaker 4: else he called up Prinda on It was kind of 348 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:31,639 Speaker 4: the face of the thick rights movement. But in the 349 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 4: document that they had proposed to the government, the an 350 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:38,200 Speaker 4: unput CYB resolution, it wasn't a proposition for exclusively six 351 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 4: And I think that's an important point to continue to mention, 352 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 4: is that the way the Indian state portrays Kalistan is 353 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 4: anti Hindu, and I think they understand that to get 354 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 4: the public support, we need to portray movements or anything 355 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 4: really that's not in our interest as anti Hindu. We 356 00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 4: need to make them feel threatened. Yeah, and if we 357 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,159 Speaker 4: can do that, there will be support for us to 358 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 4: engage in these collective punishments. 359 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,880 Speaker 3: So in the eighties and nineties, actually we call. 360 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 4: It the Decade of Disappearances, is where the Indian government 361 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 4: went from village to village disappearing six hundreds of thousands. 362 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 3: Essentially, our last generation was wiped out by the Indian state. 363 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:21,639 Speaker 3: And you know, they disposed of. 364 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 4: Their bodies and crematories throw them in rivers, and you know, 365 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 4: like we basically say that there's a sixth river of 366 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:34,120 Speaker 4: blood in Bujab because that is just how many young 367 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 4: men were killed from eighty five to. 368 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 3: Nineteen ninety five. So there was an armed resistance against this. 369 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:44,400 Speaker 4: I mean they were seeing their sisters taken into police 370 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:48,479 Speaker 4: stations and all kinds of atrocities committed against them. They 371 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 4: were seeing their brothers disappeared, you know, their family members. 372 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 4: So at some point it is better to give up 373 00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:00,240 Speaker 4: your life than to live in these circumstances. And so 374 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 4: that is the brink that they were pushed to, and 375 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 4: so we lean on their example, though the movement does 376 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:11,160 Speaker 4: not quite exactly at that same place today, we lean 377 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,439 Speaker 4: on their example in that saying, these people were. 378 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:16,919 Speaker 3: Willing to give up their lives for this. 379 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 4: Cause, and us sitting in comfort, even if it's you know, 380 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:26,639 Speaker 4: temporary safety, we have a responsibility to move this movement forward. 381 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 4: And with these new assassinations, that's another important thing to mention. 382 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 4: We've saw murders of essentially the biggest Pujabi pops, Sadhu 383 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 4: Musah in history. I mean, this guy was in Hollywood, 384 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 4: he was, he was everywhere, and when he started talking 385 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 4: about Kadistan, when he started making music regarding Pajab's rights, 386 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 4: he was assassinated. And we're seeing a new wave of 387 00:21:56,119 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 4: Indian oppression. And for the first time now people that thought, 388 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 4: oh the eighties and nineties, you know, you guys could 389 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:05,639 Speaker 4: be making something up. Maybe the Indian government is right, 390 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 4: you guys can be making up. Now they're seeing these 391 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:11,399 Speaker 4: assassinations happen in front of their eyes, and they're making 392 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 4: the judgment call as to who is in the right 393 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 4: and who is in And I think that's another reason 394 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 4: that the Kalistan movement continues to gain kind of solidarity 395 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:22,880 Speaker 4: within the six all over the world. 396 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. Sure, Like if if a government is trying to 397 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,399 Speaker 2: assassinate people to just essentially saying something it disagrees with it, 398 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 2: it's not hard to see like who's in the wrong exactly. 399 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 2: So I wonder, like, obviously there's a genuine threat to 400 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 2: Sik communities here that continues to be a threat to 401 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 2: seek migrants from both political parties in the United States, right, Yeah, 402 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 2: I'm interested, but not hopeful to see how their asylum 403 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:51,360 Speaker 2: claims go based on this very obvious discrimination that you've outlined, 404 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,719 Speaker 2: and there's this threat to seek people in their homeland 405 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,440 Speaker 2: in point job, how can people who are not sick, 406 00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 2: who are not part of the community like be in solidary, 407 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 2: how can they support What can they do to, like 408 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 2: I guess yet, to stop people being murdered? 409 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 4: Well, it sounds cliche to say awareness, but at this 410 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 4: point in time, they're just enough people aware of you know, 411 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:21,879 Speaker 4: how in danger they are, because if they don't speak 412 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 4: for six today, tomorrow it could be them. And if 413 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 4: the Western governments are allowing foreign nations to come in 414 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 4: and they have embassies in these countries, and they're allowing 415 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 4: these nations to kind of, you know, assassinate their citizens, 416 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 4: then what's to say that they won't be next tomorrow. 417 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 4: It's the age old saying there was no one left 418 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 4: to speak for me. That's part of it is you 419 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 4: have to understand the ramifications of ignoring something like this. 420 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:48,680 Speaker 4: So I guess the first thing we'd like to see 421 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 4: is solidarity with that Aalestine. Now most folks have an 422 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 4: opinion on it, or at least they've heard the word 423 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 4: and they've seen six everywhere you know where the folks 424 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,119 Speaker 4: that walk around with urbans, and we're one of the 425 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,200 Speaker 4: probably ninety nine percent of people you see with turbans 426 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,400 Speaker 4: on our six and so we're. 427 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 3: A very visible community. 428 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:13,439 Speaker 4: However, the reasons we're here, our plight, understanding of our 429 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 4: background is generally lacking. So I think the more that 430 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 4: we can understand who six are, what their beliefs are, 431 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 4: what they're fighting. 432 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 3: For, why they're here to begin with, I think, you know, there. 433 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 4: Will be more political pressure regarding that, and I'm seeing 434 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,440 Speaker 4: it starting to shift slightly, especially in the past five 435 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 4: to ten years. We've tipped the skills just slightly, but 436 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 4: we're far from from anywhere substantial. 437 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think for like, at least for my group 438 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 2: of friends, right, we go down to the border and 439 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,919 Speaker 2: help people, and like we've encountered sick people because they 440 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 2: were always there with us helping us, right, Like some 441 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 2: sick folks flew down from other places and joined us 442 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 2: and stayed out there and helped us feed people. And like, 443 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 2: sick folks have shown up for other people substantially all 444 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:04,880 Speaker 2: over the world. And I think it would be really 445 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 2: good to see people kind of reflect that that solidarity 446 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:10,920 Speaker 2: that's kind of baked into the sick religion that it 447 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,679 Speaker 2: would be nice to see people doing that in return, 448 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 2: absolutely as seeks organized to their own community safety. Like 449 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 2: obviously there's like a pressing danger to people, especially people 450 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 2: who are vocal a Sikhs organized to like take care 451 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 2: of one another in that sense. 452 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:29,160 Speaker 3: To some extent. 453 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 4: Yes, And again a part of organization and having support 454 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:38,119 Speaker 4: that comes from that organization is having political power. And 455 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 4: six have political power in certain instances, but they do 456 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:45,639 Speaker 4: not have a homeland or the resources to kind of 457 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 4: back it up. And you know, politics kind of lobbying 458 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,239 Speaker 4: works with money. So the fact that we have these 459 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 4: immigration problems a is a result of India's efforts, but 460 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,920 Speaker 4: be the reason that they don't have the support. 461 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 3: They need is because don't have a homeland where they can. 462 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 4: Say, all right, these are our beliefs, these are our people. 463 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 4: We support our people, we will give them these resources 464 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:11,159 Speaker 4: that they need. So we're kind of always operating at 465 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 4: a grassroots level. Yeah, and that's part of the issue 466 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:19,200 Speaker 4: is why there's not grand or large scale change. 467 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 3: But it continues to march forward. 468 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 4: You know, as generations grow up, as they become more 469 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 4: involved in different facets. 470 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,440 Speaker 3: A lot of people, especially in the United states. 471 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 4: Are first generation. So our parents' generation was just focused 472 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 4: on surviving. How are we going to put food on 473 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:36,159 Speaker 4: the table? Are were going to put a roof over 474 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,479 Speaker 4: your head? And so the next generation kind of has 475 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 4: the opportunity to explore how. 476 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 3: They can make a difference for their people. So Canada 477 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,880 Speaker 3: is getting there, the UK is getting there, the US. 478 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 4: Is behind just because our migration here was later than 479 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:52,640 Speaker 4: those places to that level. 480 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:54,440 Speaker 3: But it's getting there. 481 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's good. So people want to find out more 482 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 2: about like the sick religion or like sick people. That 483 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 2: good resources that you could suggest. 484 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 3: Yeah. 485 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 4: Absolutely, I think there's a very thorough background of what 486 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 4: Calliston is just on callist on dot org. Okay, so 487 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 4: kJ l I s t an dot org. They have publications, 488 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,640 Speaker 4: they have documentaries. They've done a significant amount of work 489 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 4: to give the background of a Y six will never 490 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,679 Speaker 4: stop fighting for freedom and be kind of. 491 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:28,639 Speaker 3: What the circumstances are today. 492 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 4: So they've they've done a fairly good job at that. 493 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 4: Other than that, there's pages on social media. There's free 494 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,440 Speaker 4: five a B which stands for free puin job. It's 495 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 4: it's on Twitter, TikTok and of course TikTok. 496 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 3: Has deleted that page many times. 497 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 4: So we're trying to figure out where the where the 498 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,160 Speaker 4: alliances are there, and Instagram of course has done their 499 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:54,720 Speaker 4: thing based on their alliances. 500 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 3: But there are some. 501 00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,680 Speaker 4: Resources out there, and of course if you google it, 502 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,159 Speaker 4: the first things that are going to come up is 503 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 4: Times of India. 504 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, in those. 505 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 4: Tun Times basically saying this is a terrorist movement that's 506 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:13,359 Speaker 4: funded by foreign governments to break the unity integrity of India. 507 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:19,200 Speaker 4: It's a very rudimentary explanation, basically rooted in violence and 508 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,399 Speaker 4: how these people just have it out for us. 509 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,119 Speaker 3: But the reality is entirely different and the facts speak 510 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:25,359 Speaker 3: to that. 511 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:29,119 Speaker 4: And I think the assassination attempts of today, the folks 512 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 4: that remain in Indian and jails today, there's a UK 513 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 4: citizen in Indian jail. 514 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 3: There are you know, folks that are dying in Indian prisons. 515 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:40,480 Speaker 4: There's folks that have completed their sentences six thirty plus 516 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 4: years still sitting in Indian prisons. So all of the 517 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 4: circumstances today kind of speak to why this movement exists 518 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 4: and will continue to exist. So hopefully we can take 519 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 4: advantage of some of the resources out there. 520 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's great, and I hope people will go and 521 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 2: look educate themselves. You can look up Culsa AID as 522 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 2: well if you're interested in like the sort of sort 523 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 2: of diarity and support side of Sikhism. Those people have 524 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 2: been great at the border, and I know they've done 525 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 2: tons about the great humanitarian work as well. 526 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 3: Absolutely. 527 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 4: Yeah. 528 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 2: Is there anything else that you'd like people to know 529 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 2: before we finish up here, like about six or about 530 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 2: college down things they can do to help. 531 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I would, especially all the viewers. 532 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 4: I would like everyone to be open to the opportunity 533 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 4: that there are more people in the world that are 534 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 4: seeking to suppress and oppress than just what is told 535 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 4: by American media today. At least be open to the opportunity. 536 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 4: India is the world's biggest democracy today until it's not anymore, 537 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 4: and communities like the six who have experienced violent genocide 538 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 4: and today are experiencing the genocide. I think it's very 539 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 4: important to understand that the sick genocide never ended. It 540 00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 4: continues today in different facets, in different forms. So that's 541 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 4: A and B the struggle for freedom and sovereignty, though 542 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 4: they want to put it on. So the Indian state 543 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 4: continuously tries to kill two birds with one stone. They 544 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 4: have enemity with Pakistan, so they try to say that 545 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 4: Kadistan is a movement to the byproduct of kind of 546 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 4: focused on the interference, even though the facts speak otherwise. 547 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 4: That if it's not Fakistan that killed hundreds of thousands 548 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 4: of six, it's not Fakistan that is assassinating six out 549 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 4: in these foreign countries. So they try to kill two 550 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 4: birds with one stone. India is definitely not a democracy. 551 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 4: I would like the viewers to be open to that 552 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 4: possibility as well and do. 553 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 3: Your own research. 554 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 4: Of course, I have a perspective based on the circumstances 555 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 4: that my people have been through, and I would hope 556 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 4: everyone can form a more thorough understanding and that there 557 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 4: is a lot more happening, especially in that region than 558 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 4: is politically correct to right now. So that's what I'll 559 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 4: finish with. 560 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's great, Thank you very much for that. I 561 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 2: think that's a really good place to finish. Thank you 562 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,480 Speaker 2: so much for your time, and yeah, I really appreciate 563 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 2: you explaining to that for us. 564 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 3: Of course, thank you for having me jail. 565 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: It could happen here as a production of Cool Zone Media. 566 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,239 Speaker 1: For more podcasts and the cool Zone Media. Visit our 567 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 1: website cool zonemedia dot com, or check us out on 568 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:26,360 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 569 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 1: You can find sources for It could happen here, Updated 570 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 1: monthly at coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.