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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: An Australian mining company has agreed to pay Molly one

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Speaker 2: hundred and sixty million dollars after their CEO was detained

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Speaker 2: along with two colleagues during a visit to the country.

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Speaker 3: Taking a look at a stock in Australia this morning.

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Speaker 3: This is Resolute Mining. It's listed on the A six

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Speaker 3: two hundred and we're actually seeing shared well. They're significantly

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Speaker 3: plunging down, the most since nineteen eighty eight. But it's

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Speaker 3: it's really not a great story here.

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Speaker 4: The payment half now, half later has been agreed.

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Speaker 2: As Molly's military leaders are looking to get a greater

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Speaker 2: share of revenue from its mining industry and foreign operators

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Speaker 2: are in its sites.

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Speaker 1: They adopted a new mining code that could see the

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Speaker 1: government increase at stake to thirty five percent in existing

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Speaker 1: gold mines, and that's caused all kinds of trouble for

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Speaker 1: some of the biggest mine is that, including Barrack.

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Speaker 2: On this episode of The Next Africa podcast, we'll ask

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Speaker 2: if Africa's third largest gold producer is still a safe

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Speaker 2: place to invest and whether more executives could find themselves

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Speaker 2: in detention as the government demands to renegotiate mining deals.

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Speaker 2: I'm Jennifer's Abasaja and this is the Next Africa Podcast,

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Speaker 2: bringing you one story each week from the continent driving

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Speaker 2: the future of global growth with the context only Bloomberg

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Speaker 2: can provide. Joining us this week are Bloomberg's Katerina Hooyhe

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Speaker 2: and Dekar, and our mining and metals reporter William Klows

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Speaker 2: in Johannesburg.

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Speaker 4: Thank you both for being here.

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Speaker 2: This is a fascinating story that I've I've kind of

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Speaker 2: personally been really interested in. But let's just take a

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Speaker 2: few steps back and start with the arrest of the

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Speaker 2: Resolute executives and what happened there to lead us to.

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Speaker 5: Hear Resolutes CEO Terry Hollihan and to our employees that

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Speaker 5: the company has not named, traveled to Mali earliest months,

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Speaker 5: possibly on an invite from Deamalin authorities to discuss what

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Speaker 5: days are unsubstiate claims made against Resolute. They were meeting

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Speaker 5: with tax authorities and Mali mining authorities, and following these meetings,

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Speaker 5: on November eighth, Polo Hand and his colleagues were arrested

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Speaker 5: at their Bamaco hotel. Mali is saying that Resolute, which

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Speaker 5: operates gold mine in Mali, one of the most productive mines,

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Speaker 5: and it was set to ramper production this year and next. Oh,

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Speaker 5: the Malie stay one hundred millions safe of France. That's

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Speaker 5: about one hundred and sixty million, and they were detained

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Speaker 5: at what's the financial crimes court in Bamacco for almost

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Speaker 5: two weeks until Wednesday evening this week. Resulutes set agreed

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Speaker 5: to pay eighty millions of those to settle this dispute

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Speaker 5: and for the release of its staff. They've also agreed

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Speaker 5: to talk to transfer its mining assession too, a new

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Speaker 5: mining code adopted last year in a sense to sort

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Speaker 5: of resolve dispute.

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Speaker 2: Wow, So William, maybe you can tell us a bit

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Speaker 2: more about this payment that was made that Calerina was

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Speaker 2: just talking about. That's a significant amount of money. And

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Speaker 2: where exactly is Mally claiming these funds are from or

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Speaker 2: are for.

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Speaker 6: It's a difficult one to answer because the Malian government

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Speaker 6: hasn't actually provided any evidence. We can know a bit

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Speaker 6: about the allegations from talking to the companies and people

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Speaker 6: in and around the government that the state's allegations relate

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Speaker 6: to back taxes going back to the Middle of last

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Speaker 6: decade to dividends that the state thinks they should have

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Speaker 6: received from these joint ventures and the foreign company's use

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Speaker 6: of offshore bank accounts for doing business in Mali. However,

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Speaker 6: whether the claims against the companies have any merit or not,

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Speaker 6: the authorities in Mali have been using these allegations to

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Speaker 6: renegotiate the partnerships with these companies, and so far, at

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Speaker 6: least in the short term, they've been very successful.

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Speaker 2: Resolute declined to comment for this podcast, but in statements

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Speaker 2: released since Hollahan was detained, the company has said while

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Speaker 2: the state claims against the company are quote unsubstantiated, the

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Speaker 2: agreement that we'll see Resolute pay one hundred and sixty

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Speaker 2: million dollars also commits the government to drop those same claims.

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Speaker 2: The Malian authorities did not respond to our request for comment,

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Speaker 2: and it's coming out of at a time where we

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Speaker 2: are seeing gold prices fluctuate climbing the last that I saw.

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Speaker 2: When we think about gold extraction in gold mining in

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Speaker 2: the Sahal in Mali, how significant is it for the country,

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Speaker 2: Katerina Well.

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Speaker 5: I mean, Mali is one of Africa's biggest gold producers

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Speaker 5: and even one of the biggest in the world. Gold

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Speaker 5: production last year was at ad and five tons. Gold

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Speaker 5: is also by Fir's biggest source of export revenue. This

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Speaker 5: estimated at more than two million people, about ten percent

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Speaker 5: of the popul depend on the mining sector, and then

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Speaker 5: we're talking both the industrial and matrisannel for the livelihood.

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Speaker 5: Gold has become even more important as an income source

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Speaker 5: since Mali is so much of its aid suspended following

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Speaker 5: too military coups one in twenty twenty and another one

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Speaker 5: in twenty twenty one, and back then the country was

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Speaker 5: also a temporary cut off from regional markets and at

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Speaker 5: one point they faced for reaching economics and financial sanctions

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Speaker 5: by Naghbors when they failed to meet a deadline for elections. So,

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Speaker 5: I mean, definitely something that the junta is trying to

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Speaker 5: get more resources from and gain better control of.

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Speaker 2: And that's from the perspective of the junta. Sorry, but

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Speaker 2: when we talk about the companies that are operating in

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Speaker 2: the region, it's very important to them, right, I mean, William,

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Speaker 2: you mentioned a few of the biggest mining companies. This

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Speaker 2: must be an important region for them to operate and

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Speaker 2: to profit from.

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Speaker 6: You've got large mining companies operating in the country. The

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Speaker 6: four biggest minds that are operated by Barrack Gold, which

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Speaker 6: is the second biggest gold company on the planet, other

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Speaker 6: slightly smaller ones Allied Gold, B two Gold, and of

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Speaker 6: course Resolute Mining. Some of these companies have their primary

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Speaker 6: asset in Mali, and in the case of Barrack it's

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Speaker 6: one of the biggest gold mines on the planet. At

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Speaker 6: a time of high gold prices, there is no way

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Speaker 6: in which they're going to risk losing these assets, which

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Speaker 6: I supposedly think about. It is the sort of ultimate

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Speaker 6: threat the Malian authorities are leveling at the companies.

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Speaker 2: So stick with us when we come back. We're going

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Speaker 2: to get into what this payout actually means and what

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Speaker 2: effect it could have on other foreign companies that are

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Speaker 2: working in the region but also across the continent. We'll

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Speaker 2: be right back, Welcome back today on the podcast, we're

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Speaker 2: looking into why Mali has been arresting foreign mining executive

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Speaker 2: and whether we could see more payouts like that one

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Speaker 2: hundred and sixty million dollars from Australia's Resolute. So Katarina,

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Speaker 2: what are some of the changes that we've seen from

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Speaker 2: the junta in Mali?

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Speaker 4: What are they attempting to do.

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Speaker 5: One of the key measures is a new mining code

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Speaker 5: that was adopted last year. There's also been the audit

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Speaker 5: that William mentioned, which has led to more regulatory disputes,

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Speaker 5: including claims of back taxes, which is with Resolute and

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Speaker 5: Barrick are facing. Some companies have also been ordered to

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Speaker 5: transfer operations back to Mali, which is the case with

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Speaker 5: im Gold and Ashanti, who transferred the Yetela mine Earli

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Speaker 5: this month. We've also seen other actors entering Mali's mining sector.

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Speaker 5: The country has moved away from its sort of traditional

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Speaker 5: Western partners, including the EU and the US, and reinforced

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Speaker 5: its ties with Russia, most prominently by the deployment of

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Speaker 5: Wagner Group mercenaries back in twenty twenty one, and more recently,

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Speaker 5: By has also pledged to build a gold refinery in Bamaco.

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Speaker 5: This is unlikely to happen in time soon, but I

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Speaker 5: mean the president's set with Barrick and Resolute sort of

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Speaker 5: gives an idea of how Mali's going forward, and this

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Speaker 5: is sustance. It's likely to continue as long as the

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Speaker 5: military is empower there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And that brings me to you, William as somebody

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Speaker 2: who covers the sector quite after.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's your beat.

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Speaker 2: What are these companies saying about the changing landscape that

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Speaker 2: these governments are at least trying to instill.

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Speaker 6: So if we take the four biggest gold mining companies

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Speaker 6: in Mali or the four biggest gold mines in Maley

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Speaker 6: operated by these multinationals, Resolute has definitely experienced the most

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Speaker 6: eye catching I raising treatment. I mean, inviting a company

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Speaker 6: CEO to fly all the way to Marley and then

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Speaker 6: arresting them is pretty drastic negotiating tactic. But the other

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Speaker 6: three big companies, Barrack, Allied and B two Gold, they

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Speaker 6: all have courted in North America, they've been experiencing comparable pressures.

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Speaker 6: Allied and B two Gold sort of got ahead of

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Speaker 6: it and recently announced agreements with the Malian state. One

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Speaker 6: of them will migrate their mining projects to the new

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Speaker 6: mining code that Katerina mentioned, but the other one won't.

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Speaker 6: But what they will both do is make large payments

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Speaker 6: to the state one hundred and fifteen million dollars for

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Speaker 6: Allied and two hundred and four million dollars for B

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Speaker 6: two Gold. And importantly, they've agreed to put their expansion

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Speaker 6: projects that they're building fully on this new mining code

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Speaker 6: that has these high at taxes, higher royalties, etc. And

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Speaker 6: as for the really big one, which is Barrack's very

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Speaker 6: large Lulugunkoto mine, those renegotiations have got pretty acrimonious, not

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Speaker 6: as acrimonious as anyone as a resting the CEO, but nevertheless,

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Speaker 6: the CEO has said he's very confident of reaching an

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Speaker 6: agreement with the authorities and that agreement, if finalized. When finalized,

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Speaker 6: will surely see Maley increase its share of profits and

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Speaker 6: revenue from that joint venture. So in short, everyone is negotiating,

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Speaker 6: some in more comfortable conditions than others, and all of

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Speaker 6: them are basically giving Mali's leaders more or less what

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Speaker 6: they want.

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Speaker 2: It is this ultimately these governments and the Malian government

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Speaker 2: with the upper hand or what is the negotiating power

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Speaker 2: that these companies have if anything.

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Speaker 6: Well, it's hard to say at this point, but clearly

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Speaker 6: these gold mining companies, some of which, as I said,

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Speaker 6: have their key assets in Mali, are energetically negotiating with

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Speaker 6: the state and concluding agreements that will transfer large sums

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Speaker 6: of money now to the state and in the future

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Speaker 6: to the state, and basically decrease their shares of future

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Speaker 6: revenue and profits, and I think that shows how committed

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Speaker 6: they are to retain in control of these minds. You know,

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Speaker 6: they've also accepted the new code, which is more onerous

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Speaker 6: for them and more beneficial for the state for the

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Speaker 6: expansion projects that they already have under way.

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Speaker 1: But where I.

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Speaker 6: Think we might see Western investors think twice and take

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Speaker 6: a step back, especially after Terry Hollahan's experience, are those

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Speaker 6: who have projects in Mali that are at an earlier stage,

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Speaker 6: or who those who were considering entering Malee with the

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Speaker 6: gold sector, the mining sector more broadly. This will definitely

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Speaker 6: understate it slightly give them calls for pause.

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Speaker 2: Thank you both so much for joining us. That's William

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Speaker 2: Klouse and Katerina Hooihe are two Bloomberg reporters. And as

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Speaker 2: we said earlier, Resolute decline to comment for this podcast,

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Speaker 2: but in statements released since Hollyhand was detained, the company

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Speaker 2: has said that while the States claims against the company

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Speaker 2: are quote unsubstantiated, the agreement that will see Resolute pay

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Speaker 2: one hundred and sixty million dollars also commits the government

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Speaker 2: to drop those same claims. You can read full coverage

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Speaker 2: of this story across Bloomberg platforms. Now here's a few

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Speaker 2: other stories we're watching in the region.

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Speaker 4: This week.

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Speaker 2: South Africa's inflation rate fell to a four year low

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Speaker 2: ahead of another reduction in interest rates. Consumer prices rose

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Speaker 2: two point eight percent in October, down from three point

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Speaker 2: eight percent the previous month and lower than the three

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Speaker 2: percent many economists had actually been expecting. And an opposition

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Speaker 2: leader one elections in Somaliland, casting doubt over whether the

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Speaker 2: semi autonomous region will honor a deal that will enable

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Speaker 2: Ethiopia to build a military base on its coast on

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Speaker 2: the Gulf of Aden. Abdu Rahman Mohammad Abdullahi, a former

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Speaker 2: Speaker of Parliament, one about sixty four percent of the

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Speaker 2: ballots cast in the November thirteenth vote, according to official tallies.

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Speaker 2: His campaign pledges included reviving the region's faltering economy, restoring

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Speaker 2: national unity, and maintaining political stability. And you can follow

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Speaker 2: these stories and more across Bloomberg, including the Next African newsletter.

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Speaker 2: We'll put a link to that in the show notes.

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Speaker 2: This program was produced by Adrian Bradley. Don't forget to

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Speaker 2: follow and review this show. We'd love to hear from

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Speaker 2: you wherever you usually get your podcasts. I'm Jennifer's Abasaja.

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Speaker 2: Thanks as always for listening.